May 28, 2025 • 36 mins
In this episode, Tudor discusses the complex and escalating tensions between the United States and China with Gordon Chang. They explore the implications of tariffs, the theft of intellectual property, and the potential for technological warfare. The conversation delves into biological threats posed by China, the economic state of the nation, and the radicalization of individuals within the U.S. They also address the role of Chinese students in American universities and the cultural challenges that arise from these dynamics. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network. For more visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I want to jump right in today because we've got
Gordon Chang with us. He is a Gatestone Institute Senior
Fellow and the author of Plan Read, China's Project to
Destroy America. This is one of many books though, Gordon.
I'm so glad you're here today because obviously China is
top of mind for everybody in Washington, d C. And
for those of us on the outside, we're kind of
(00:24):
watching everything, all the strategy play out, and I know
you have the inside track.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Well, thank you so much, Tutor. And Happy Memorial Day.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yes, Happy Memorial Day to you as well.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So as we watch what's going on, I mean, there's
so much because we've got the tariffs, and certainly in
Michigan there are a lot of people that are concerned
about the tariffs in general because a lot of the
automotive parts come from China or they go back and forth.
So there's great concern over tariffs on China being greater
than any other country. But can you kind of break
(00:57):
down for our audience why that is?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, most Americans assume this is peacetime, and yes, we're
not actually in a war with China. China, however, isn't
a war with us. They've declared a people's war on
us in May twenty nineteen, and that is propaganda. But
for the Communist Party it's important words. It is a
(01:20):
phrase which has residents that goes back before the establishment
of the People's Republic. So for we should consider ourselves
not in peace but at war, and in war we
have to take extraordinary measures to protect our society. So
I can understand why people don't like the tariffs, and
they certainly are going to hurt Americans, but this is
(01:41):
going to be a sacrifice that all of us are
going to make if we want to preserve our society.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, I think a lot of people don't like them
because we've, especially the younger generation, has grown up with
China making so much of our products, and it's so quick,
it's so easy, it's so cheap. It all comes through
Amazon and gets delivered right to your door. I found
my kids were suddenly talking about Timu and Sheen and
(02:07):
all of these things, and they wanted to order all
this stuff, and they had actually gone through their grandmother
and oh, can you get all this stuff for us?
It was interesting though, because it came to the house.
The quality was so bad. Even the girls were like, wait,
what is this? This isn't what I got. No, actually
it is what you got. But I think that they
(02:29):
see it from that standpoint. They don't understand how this
impacts pharmaceuticals and intellectual property and all of these things.
And we saw recently that what's the guy's name, who Dorsey?
Who Jack Dorsey? Who had who was the prior owner
of Twitter? He came out and he said he wants
(02:50):
to get rid of all ip laws altogether. He was
talking from the standpoint of technology and AI and all
of that. People are so ignorant though they have no
idea what that kind of thing could do to the
United States of America. With China being filled with pirates
as it is.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well, yes, one of China's trade tactics, and one of
the reasons why it's become so successful so fast is
because it steals us intellectual property. It steals it to
the tune of about a half trillion dollars a year.
That was the estimate of John Ratcliffe when he was
Director of National Intelligence in December twenty twenty. Now we
(03:29):
can argue whether it's one hundred billion dollars more or less.
But the point is this is America's future. And while yes,
the tech companies want to be able to use other
people's intellectual property, we've got to protect it because the
reason why we have it is because inventors feel that
they have protection for their work, and that means that
(03:52):
they have an incentive to actually create something. So it's
really important that we strengthen intellectual property laws, not weaken them.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And I do think that we have to be prepared
for what is coming when it comes to AI and
making sure that we are we are making sure that
the companies that are working on that are safe. We
saw Donald Trump go to the Middle East. He made
a big deal on not only AI, but data centers,
(04:22):
all of this stuff that edit powers that type of technology,
which could be the technology of the future, whether it
is making movies or war. And you've talked before about
the ability of China to shut things off through technology,
shutting us down completely a war. Like you said, people
(04:42):
don't think of us as being at war, but there
is the possibility of coming in and shutting down our electronics,
shutting down our energy. If we don't have an energy supply,
we are a third world country.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, this is not a theoretical concern because recently power inverters,
which are the devices that connect solar farms and wind
turbines to our grid, they were shut down remotely from China,
and China's been able to do this, and.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So this when was that?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Where were we seeing that this was reported by Reuters
that the Chinese shut this down remotely.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
They didn't report where in the United States, but they
were reported that it was in the United States where
this occurred. So this is something that we have to
be acutely concerned about because there are all sorts of
devices that have been made in China ship to the
United States which have components that allow the Chinese to
(05:41):
remotely control them. So, for instance, those big ship to
shore cranes at our ports, more than eighty percent of
them come from one company in Shanghai, and a year
or so ago, the Wall Street Journal reported that some
of these cranes had motives that were not part of
the original specifications and which were not part of help
(06:05):
the cranes operate, So they shouldn't have been there, but
they were, and those modems gave China the ability to
remotely access those cranes, they could disable them or maybe
cause those cranes to create damage at our ports.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I mean, doesn't that just kind of reinforce the idea
that we should be more self reliant than having all
of this stuff constantly shipped in.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Absolutely. You know another example drones. There's one Chinese company
from shen Zen Dji that makes about seventy percent of
the world's drones. Those drones can be used to basically
surveil because wherever that drone goes, China conceives. Now, people
can disable some of those features that allowed China to
(06:52):
do that, but if they don't disable those features, then
essentially every drone that has those features operating is a
surveillance tool for Beijing. So they are mapping our country.
You know, we know that all of these Chinese migrants
that have come in, they've come in at a time
(07:12):
where we've seen Chinese nationals and increased tempo of them
trying to get onto our military facilities. We've seen them
with illegal surveillance of our bases. So they're looking at
our vulnerabilities, they're seeing our patterns, and essentially this is
planning for attack, and we should assume that this will occur.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
When you say planning for attack, do you actually mean
a physical attack that they will come on us soil physical.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well, they're already here. So we believe that there are
People's Liberation Army and probably Ministry of State security agents
in large numbers in the United States planning attacks on America.
So one of the first instances where we will have
a hint that China plans to use ForCity State Asia
will be attacks in the United States going after our grid,
(08:05):
going after starting wildfires, blowing up dams, explosions at shopping
centers to create terror. All of these things can occur
and Tutor in the December twenty twenty two an alert
building inspector in Ridley, California, which is near Fresno in
(08:25):
the Central Valley, she discovered what is a Chinese biological
weapons facility and inside federal and state authorities found more
at least twenty pathogens, probably more, including the one for
a bola and almost a thousand mice that have been
genetically engineered to spread disease. I mentioned abola because we
(08:47):
know that researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology are
now studying a bola, which means they are studying how
to weaponize it. A bola has a natural fatality rate
of fifty percent. One thing about a bullet is that
it's not readily transmissible. But if the Chinese can figure
out how to make it more transmissible, more contagious, then
(09:09):
they will have a weapon that will be able to
kill massive numbers of Americans.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
That is shocking to me.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It makes me think about the fact that Joe Biden
spent four years after through the pandemic and after the pandemic,
not holding China accountable, having no discussions with China on this.
In fact, almost I would say, defending China in many
different instances when people were saying, well, wait a minute,
why aren't we holding them accountable to the pandemic, Why
(09:38):
aren't we holding them accountable to this trade imbalance. Now
you have Donald Trump who has implemented the tariffs, and
I think you've pointed out that he did offer China
an off ramp to the tariff war, but they decided
they didn't want that. There's that still a back and
forth right now with the tariffs on Chinese products. But
(09:59):
when you talk about out what I mean essentially you're
talking about terrorist attacks and the bioweapons. Is there going
to be someone? Will Donald Trump hold China accountable for
the pandemic?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well, I hope so. First of all, in his first term,
he withdrew from the World Health Organization. The reason why
that was important was that China used the WHO to
spread the disease beyond China's borders twice. In January of
twenty twenty, the WHO propagated China's narrative, which senior doctors
(10:34):
knew was senior doctors at the WHO knew was not true.
China's narrative was that stars CoV two, the pathogen that
causes COVID nineteen, was not readily transmissible human to human.
So there is a January ninth statement and a January
fourteenth tweet from the WHO which said, don't worry about this.
(10:57):
That was at a critical time, and that lulled health
officials around the world, including those in America, not to
take precautions that they otherwise would have, which means that
a disease that should have been confined to the central
part of China became a global pandemic. That seven million
people outside of China were killed by a disease. Now
(11:18):
it's one point two million Americans. The reason why all
of this is important is that Joe Biden when he
became president, he put the US back into the who
the organization that helped spread this disease. And the reason
why all of this is critical right now is that
China knows it's killed seven million people, all foreigners who
(11:43):
now there's no deterrent for spreading the next disease that
Chinese technicians and scientists are cooking up in labs like
the Muhan Institute of Virology.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
So do you think that that was a planned test?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
No? I Actually my guess is that the Muhan Institute
of Virology was a medical was a military facility. That
disease my guess. I mean a lot of Chinese nationals
will tell you it was a test, that they deliberately
spread it into China to kill off old people and
(12:20):
then the rest of it. I don't think so. I
think what happened was they were careless at the Muhan
Institute of Virology, and we know that even before the pandemic,
and what happened is this disease got out into the
Chinese public. Sijianping then made a decision he knew that
his country was being devastated by COVID, he wanted to
(12:41):
even the playing field. China has something called comprehensive national power.
It's a series of metrics that measure the strength of countries.
And there's two ways to become stronger. One of them
is you make yourself stronger. The other is you make
others weaker. And that's what Sigimping did. Si Jimping did
two things. For at least five weeks in December twenty
(13:05):
nineteen and January twenty twenty. He told the world that
this was not a contagious disease when he knew that
it was highly transmissible human to human. And then while
he was locking down his own country. Lockdowns are controversial,
but by locking down his own country, he was telling
the world he thought that was an effective way of
stopping disease. So while he was locking down China, he
(13:28):
was forcing other countries to take passengers from China without restrictions. Tutor,
you put those two things together, and it shows that
the spread of COVID nineteen beyond China's borders was deliberate.
So I believe that Sigmping decided that he was going
to weaken the rest of the world by spreading this
(13:49):
disease outside of China.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
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Now stay tuned. We've got more after this. China has
a weakened economy already. I mean we've heard rumblings that
they are not economically sound right now.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Why.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I mean, obviously coming out of the pandemic, that's not good.
But why not negotiate with Donald Trump if you're already
in a poor position economically. Isn't a trade war just
going to hurt them even more?
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yes, it will hurt them even more. And the Chinese economy,
i believe now, is contracting and we can see this from,
for instance, price data from February, March and April, which
shows that China's in a deflationary spiral. Deflation is an
economy killer and is inconsistent with China's reports of robust
economic growth. To answer your question, I think that Cejimping
(15:56):
has put himself into a position where he has to
he has to do the worst thing possible, and the
reason is for half a decade at least, he's been
telling the Chinese people and other senior Chinese leaders that
due to his policies, that China has surpassed the United States.
Now he can't be seen in negotiating with the United
(16:18):
States in good faith because he's told everybody he doesn't
have to. So I think that he has configured the
Chinese political system so that only the most hostile answers
are considered to be acceptable, and he cannot deal in
good faith with us, and by the way, he isn't.
On March. On May twelfth, China the United States jointly
(16:40):
negotiated and announced an agreement, and China has already violated
that agreement. So really what we're talking about is a
Sijenping who can't deal cooperatively with the United States or
with the rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Well, who are his allies right now?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Because there's rumblings that he's working with Putin, there's rumblings
that he's working with North Korea. There's also rumbling cities
working with Iran. That these are all this is like
the axis of evil. So who are the allies of
the Chinese.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Well, China has technically has only one military ally, and
that's North Korea. But clearly China Si Jimping is on
the same wavelength as Vladimir Putin. One can even argue,
as I do, that the Ukraine War is actually a
proxy contest where China is trying to destabilize Europe. Through Putin.
(17:33):
We see the same thing. China has fully supported Iran
in its assault on Israel, so that's October seventh. China
have been supporting Pakistan in the Four Day Conflict with India,
and China has been fielding insurgencies in North Africa that
look like wars. So Si Jimping has been trying to
destabilize the world, and that goes back to sort of
(17:55):
the MAOIs playbook. So those are his friends, those are
the instruments that he uses, and his goals are malign.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think when you're in the United States sometimes you
can see just the dynamics of how China and the
US interact. You just kind of look at how the
US is interacting with all of these other foreign leaders
in foreign countries. But bringing up the fact that China
would want to destabilize Europe and to use Russia as
kind of their useful idiot to go into Ukraine and
(18:28):
stabilize Europe and Eastern Europe and then obviously Western Europe
as well. I mean, really, you're getting everybody involved, because
now the entire world is focused in on what is
Putin going to do? And they were very effective in
manipulating the United States because look at it impacted our
entire political system for years, having people.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Go back and forth on it. Are you with Ukraine?
Are you not with Ukraine?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Now we have this similar situation with Israel and power Stein.
In the last few days, we've seen this horrific murder
in Washington, d C. Of these two people who were
at the museum, the Israeli Museum. They were a young
couple just about to get engaged American and I believe
(19:18):
the man was from Israel.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I think so when you see that happening on US soil,
and this is something that we haven't really discussed on
the podcast, but it shook me waking up to that news.
I think we are so desensitized to seeing a murder
on the streets of New York or a murder on
the streets of DC, that it's easy to overlook the
(19:44):
fact that this is a terror attack. This is a mindset.
This is someone who was radicalized on US soil. And
when you start to hear really the teachings that come
from the socialist group that is on college campuses, and
they have infiltrated these college campuses and they are using
they really the reality is they don't actually care about
(20:07):
the Palestine Israel war. They are using that as a
way to radicalize these kids and force the nation, destabilize
the United States, and force the nation into a socialist economy.
I don't know why this is not getting more attention
that this is not just a random act. This is
(20:27):
someone who was radicalized by a group that is on
our college campuses. And when we talk about Harvard and
when we talk about the University of Michigan where we
just had this happen and the Attorney General arrested these
people and then let them go, we have a real problem.
It's not free speech. It's a real problem on our
(20:50):
college campuses where someone got to the point where they
decided to go murder a young couple in cold blood
on the streets of the United States.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yes, the US capital is not safe. And to your
broader point, foreign agents are working in field emboldened Just
to give you an example, twenty twenty three, President Biden's
nine to eleven deal with Iran. As a part of that,
Biden gave clemency to five Iranian operatives and he allowed
(21:25):
three of them to stay on US soil at a
time when other Iranian operatives were trying to kill the
former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and other senior State
Department officials, and as we subsequently learned, Iranian officials were
trying to murder Donald Trump. So really, this is to
(21:46):
me indescribable. Why he you know, why Biden would allow
these dangerous elements to stay in our country. And you know,
we know that China has been behind a lot of
this Islamic radicalism fueling it. So, for instance, on Chinese
own TikTok, of the videos on Hamas, ninety six point
(22:06):
five percent of them support the terrorist group. That's because
China's been manipulating the curation algorithm of TikTok to support
the Palestinian quote unquote clause. So this is being directed
from Beijing. There are so many examples of this infiltration
of our society and it's going to be very difficult,
(22:30):
but we have to remove these elements of the Chinese
Communist Party. We have to remove the Iranians, we have
to remove the Russians, because they are here to take
down our country, not just to destabilize us, but to
actually take down the United States of America.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, and I think that people are realizing that we're
close to that. If they get a few more people
on that team, they are closer than I think the
average person thinks to wrecking our way of life and
getting in there and destroying that. You know, I come
from Michigan, so I we have a big Arab American
(23:07):
population here. And the thing that breaks my heart over
this situation is that when I talk to my friends there,
they're like, look, we want peace. And Donald Trump has
my friends who are supportive of Donald Trump. Donald Trump
has said that he wants peace too. We want peace.
This movement is not some Most of these people are
(23:28):
people who have no connection to that region whatsoever, and
they have been radicalized by an idea, but it's something
they don't fully understand. And instead of wanting peace, like
these guys do, they want to ratchet things up.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
They want to there.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Look, I mean you don't you're not looking for peace
if you're murdering someone in cold blood on the sidewalk
after an event.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
That's right. And we have a foreign elements feeling this,
you know, it's difficult for our society to deal with
it because every time we try to someone screams racism.
But we've got to remember that we've got dangerous elements
in our country and we have to either imprison or
expel them because this is we're getting to the point
(24:16):
where they can create the worst outcomes for us. So
this is absolutely essential. And a lot of people don't
like this. You know, they're targeting a group. But unfortunately,
for instance, China has weaponized Chinese nationals on our soil
against us, and we have to understand that this is
(24:38):
something that we have to look at with a China focus.
It's not we're racist, it's Chinese regime has taken these
nationals and turned them against us and has compelled them
to commit crimes against the United States. This is difficult
for us to deal with, but we're going to have
(24:58):
to do it if we want to save country.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
What is the average life like in China?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And I ask this because every private high school I
know in the United States has Chinese exchange students, and
that seems to be the number one group from other countries.
The number one group of international students comes from China,
and I think, what kind of a lifestyle do you
have there if you get to send your child to
(25:26):
America to study for high school because I would imagine
you have to be somewhat affluent to do that, and
in that case, then you probably have a connection to
the Chinese government. Because my impression, and correct me if
I'm wrong, my impression is that if you are in
a position where you are allowed to send your child
out of the country to America to study, you must
(25:48):
be given that permission by the Chinese government, and you
must have a certain amount of money from your experience
with the Chinese government. And if that is the case,
are we just being naive taking all of these internets
students from China.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, those are great points, because you're right. I mean,
for Chinese national to come to the United States, they
need a passport which is issued by the Chinese central government.
And as you point out, the students who are coming
and studying in our high schools and our colleges and universities,
they're affluent because by and large they are paying the
(26:22):
entire tuition and cost of their education. The way to
get rich in China is to manipulate relationships with the
regime or actually be a member of the Communist party.
So there's a lot of that, you know, we have seen,
and there's a lot of different explanations for the Chinese
(26:42):
nationals who are in our country. I mean, some of
them who've come across the borders, both northern and southern ones.
Some of them are just desperate Chinese who manage to
make their way out and want to live in a
free society. Others it's apparent that they are People's Liberation Army,
Ministry of State security and are coming here to take
(27:06):
us down. And then you have your two hundred and
seventy seven thousand Chinese students on our campuses. About thirteen
percent or so of them commit espionage, and they are compelled.
Do you know that Just studies have been done on this,
and this has been studied, and obviously you can't get
(27:28):
a precise number, but that is an estimate. We've got
to remember that the Chinese regime compels Chinese students to
commit espionage. And there are two things. First of all,
there's the twenty seventeen National Intelligence Law of China, which
requires every Chinese national to spy if given a demand
(27:48):
to do so. But more important, there's the Communist Party's
top down system, whereby every Chinese citizen has got to
obey commands of the Communist Party. So this is this
is bad. But we've got to remember, though, that this
is also a US issue. And the reason is we've
(28:09):
known that the Chinese consular officials and Ministry of State
Security agents surveil Chinese students, and we've allowed that to occur.
And we know what the Chinese regime is doing in
terms of not only monitoring, but coercing Chinese students into
committing crimes against the United States. So this is really
on us as well, and we have got to dismantle
(28:31):
those Chinese networks that surveil and monitor and coerce Chinese students.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast. Well, I'm not giving us a
pass on this by any means, but don't you think
that the culture that Americans grow up in is so
counterable to that that we can't even imagine our government
asking us to spy. It's something that I think is
(28:58):
so countercultural that we reject the notion because we think
it's impossible.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Oh. Absolutely, And you made a really critical point. We
do not understand the Chinese regime, and because we don't
understand it, we've allowed it to infiltrate our society and
our general norms of what we believe prevent us from
acting effectively against the regime that is here to destroy us.
(29:25):
So we are going to take measures which you know,
most Americans would consider to be extraordinary, but which I
believe are absolutely necessary to protect us. And because we
are not taking those measures, I fear for the future.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
That's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I mean, is this something that on the outside looking in,
we're all going, gosh, this is terribly scary. And you
talk about the lab that was found in the United States,
and this all seems I mean, when you start talking
about bioweapons, it feels like that hits so quick and
it spread so fast that once it's here, there's really
(30:02):
no way to combat it. So in my mind, I'm like, well,
there must be an entire government agency dedicated to keeping
us safe.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
What is there?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Unfortunately no, Well, there are government agencies that have that
as their mission statement. But unfortunately, we are not prepared
to do that right now, and so you know, we
have just give you an example. You know, President Trump
was very good in his second term. He got us
(30:34):
out of the World Health Organization again, but we have
yet to impose costs on China for spreading COVID. And
as I mentioned before, Cajan Ping now knows that he
killed one point two million Americans with COVID and there
was no cost imposed on China. So we've got to
go beyond that now. President Trump, while he was out
(30:55):
of office between his two terms, actually talked about reparations,
and for most Americans that would be going far, much
too far. But the point is we need to create
in some way tutor, whether it's reparations or something else.
We need to create that deterrent because we know that
Chinese are working on diseases. They're going to weaponize a
(31:17):
bola or something else, and we could very well be
hit with another epidemic, and that epidemic is going to
be more deadly than COVID. So it's us, it's on us.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
You make such a good point, because I asked you earlier, well,
was that just a test and even you said likely not.
But even if it's not, it ultimately was because they
learned from it. So now they've learned that we're not
going to come back. There was no punishment, and you know,
there was no punishment worldwide. There was no global response
(31:52):
to China saying what are.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You going to do?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I haven't even I don't even feel like I have
that assurance that they were, like, you know, but huge mistake.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
We totally screwed this one up.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
This is what we're going to do to ensure that
can never happen again.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Has that happened?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
No, of course not. And you know, the one global
institution that is meant to where health is its mission,
which is the World Health Organization, was complicit in this
spread because who doctor is knew from the get go
in January twenty twenty that COVID nineteen was highly transmissible,
(32:28):
and yet that institution was spreading China's narrative when it
knew it was wrong. So we really have this global
health institution which is responsible in part for the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
And I just don't understand you can be tried for
war crimes.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I mean, the entire globe can come after you if
you commit war crimes. How can it be that if
you are so careless with research that you can kill
off millions of people, that there are no repercussions, that
there's no global this is hey, hey, wait a minute,
you can't do this.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Seven million people outside of China died from COVID. We
can argue about the number, you know, and people say, well,
it's controversial about how many people actually died from COVID,
but any number above zero is unacceptable. So we are
talking in the millions. And yeah, this is if you
(33:24):
want to put another point on it. Because Sijenping was
targeting a specific group which was non Chinese, this technically
qualifies as a genocide. Is this is more than the
third Reichs genocidal total.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But I mean, you've got the weaker genocide. You've got
quite a bit. There's so many human rights offenses there.
And I know I've kept you a little long. I
just want to say I think that there is a
problem with us here in the United States especially. I
would say my generation lived through nine to eleven, so
aw the impact of the racial conflict that happened because
(34:04):
of that, and the prejudice that occurred out of nine
to eleven, because I do think that a lot of
people went, oh my gosh, if that person did it,
then people.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
That look like that might also do it.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And I and my generation, I think is so conscious
of that now that we don't want to We don't ever.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Want that to happen.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
We don't want a group to be discriminated against in
the United States. And I think that's what you're saying
is when we hear Donald Trump say We're going to
go after these people and make sure the bad guys
are out of the country. There are so many Americans who,
because our culture is to say we want to be inclusive,
we want to be loving, we want to allow everybody
(34:45):
their freedoms, we're naive to the dangers. But there's this
there's this innate feeling of like we don't want this
prejudice to come back.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yes, then that is what's something, that's what our enemies exploit.
A lot of these charges of quote unquote racism are
basically Beijing's propaganda points, and so we have to understand
that they are manipulating us in that way, and we're
going to have to get over a lot of those
(35:17):
views because if we don't we're going to lose our country.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Strong words. That's it's going to be a hard cultural
change for us. But I do think that Donald Trump
is bringing hard truths out every single day, and obviously
we're seeing this when we see the leftist media go crazy.
But I think that those are hard truths that we
need to learn because we are a free nation and
(35:43):
we are very naive to how other regimes work.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I couldn't say it better. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Thank you so much, Gordon Chain, thank you, and I
want you to tell us your book and give us
your Twitter handle because I want people to be out
there following your ex handle whatever we're calling it now.
I want people to make sure that they can follow
you because this is such important stuff. They need to
know where it's coming from and how to continue to
follow what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah, my ex sandal is at Gordon G. Chang g
O R d O n G c h A n
G and I archive all my articles for free on
my website, which is www dot G O R d
O n c h A n G dot com.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Thank you so much for joining me, Thank you, tutor,
and thank you all for joining us on the Tutor
Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go to Tutordison
podcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or if
you want to watch the video, you can check it
out at rumble at Tutor Dixon and join us next time.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Have a blessed day,
Thanks for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I want to jump right in today because we've got
Gordon Chang with us. He is a Gatestone Institute Senior
Fellow and the author of Plan Read, China's Project to
Destroy America. This is one of many books though, Gordon.
I'm so glad you're here today because obviously China is
top of mind for everybody in Washington, d C. And
for those of us on the outside, we're kind of
(00:24):
watching everything, all the strategy play out, and I know
you have the inside track.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Well, thank you so much, Tutor. And Happy Memorial Day.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yes, Happy Memorial Day to you as well.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So as we watch what's going on, I mean, there's
so much because we've got the tariffs, and certainly in
Michigan there are a lot of people that are concerned
about the tariffs in general because a lot of the
automotive parts come from China or they go back and forth.
So there's great concern over tariffs on China being greater
than any other country. But can you kind of break
(00:57):
down for our audience why that is?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, most Americans assume this is peacetime, and yes, we're
not actually in a war with China. China, however, isn't
a war with us. They've declared a people's war on
us in May twenty nineteen, and that is propaganda. But
for the Communist Party it's important words. It is a
(01:20):
phrase which has residents that goes back before the establishment
of the People's Republic. So for we should consider ourselves
not in peace but at war, and in war we
have to take extraordinary measures to protect our society. So
I can understand why people don't like the tariffs, and
they certainly are going to hurt Americans, but this is
(01:41):
going to be a sacrifice that all of us are
going to make if we want to preserve our society.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, I think a lot of people don't like them
because we've, especially the younger generation, has grown up with
China making so much of our products, and it's so quick,
it's so easy, it's so cheap. It all comes through
Amazon and gets delivered right to your door. I found
my kids were suddenly talking about Timu and Sheen and
(02:07):
all of these things, and they wanted to order all
this stuff, and they had actually gone through their grandmother
and oh, can you get all this stuff for us?
It was interesting though, because it came to the house.
The quality was so bad. Even the girls were like, wait,
what is this? This isn't what I got. No, actually
it is what you got. But I think that they
(02:29):
see it from that standpoint. They don't understand how this
impacts pharmaceuticals and intellectual property and all of these things.
And we saw recently that what's the guy's name, who Dorsey?
Who Jack Dorsey? Who had who was the prior owner
of Twitter? He came out and he said he wants
(02:50):
to get rid of all ip laws altogether. He was
talking from the standpoint of technology and AI and all
of that. People are so ignorant though they have no
idea what that kind of thing could do to the
United States of America. With China being filled with pirates
as it is.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well, yes, one of China's trade tactics, and one of
the reasons why it's become so successful so fast is
because it steals us intellectual property. It steals it to
the tune of about a half trillion dollars a year.
That was the estimate of John Ratcliffe when he was
Director of National Intelligence in December twenty twenty. Now we
(03:29):
can argue whether it's one hundred billion dollars more or less.
But the point is this is America's future. And while yes,
the tech companies want to be able to use other
people's intellectual property, we've got to protect it because the
reason why we have it is because inventors feel that
they have protection for their work, and that means that
(03:52):
they have an incentive to actually create something. So it's
really important that we strengthen intellectual property laws, not weaken them.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And I do think that we have to be prepared
for what is coming when it comes to AI and
making sure that we are we are making sure that
the companies that are working on that are safe. We
saw Donald Trump go to the Middle East. He made
a big deal on not only AI, but data centers,
(04:22):
all of this stuff that edit powers that type of technology,
which could be the technology of the future, whether it
is making movies or war. And you've talked before about
the ability of China to shut things off through technology,
shutting us down completely a war. Like you said, people
(04:42):
don't think of us as being at war, but there
is the possibility of coming in and shutting down our electronics,
shutting down our energy. If we don't have an energy supply,
we are a third world country.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, this is not a theoretical concern because recently power inverters,
which are the devices that connect solar farms and wind
turbines to our grid, they were shut down remotely from China,
and China's been able to do this, and.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So this when was that?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Where were we seeing that this was reported by Reuters
that the Chinese shut this down remotely.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
They didn't report where in the United States, but they
were reported that it was in the United States where
this occurred. So this is something that we have to
be acutely concerned about because there are all sorts of
devices that have been made in China ship to the
United States which have components that allow the Chinese to
(05:41):
remotely control them. So, for instance, those big ship to
shore cranes at our ports, more than eighty percent of
them come from one company in Shanghai, and a year
or so ago, the Wall Street Journal reported that some
of these cranes had motives that were not part of
the original specifications and which were not part of help
(06:05):
the cranes operate, So they shouldn't have been there, but
they were, and those modems gave China the ability to
remotely access those cranes, they could disable them or maybe
cause those cranes to create damage at our ports.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I mean, doesn't that just kind of reinforce the idea
that we should be more self reliant than having all
of this stuff constantly shipped in.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Absolutely. You know another example drones. There's one Chinese company
from shen Zen Dji that makes about seventy percent of
the world's drones. Those drones can be used to basically
surveil because wherever that drone goes, China conceives. Now, people
can disable some of those features that allowed China to
(06:52):
do that, but if they don't disable those features, then
essentially every drone that has those features operating is a
surveillance tool for Beijing. So they are mapping our country.
You know, we know that all of these Chinese migrants
that have come in, they've come in at a time
(07:12):
where we've seen Chinese nationals and increased tempo of them
trying to get onto our military facilities. We've seen them
with illegal surveillance of our bases. So they're looking at
our vulnerabilities, they're seeing our patterns, and essentially this is
planning for attack, and we should assume that this will occur.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
When you say planning for attack, do you actually mean
a physical attack that they will come on us soil physical.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well, they're already here. So we believe that there are
People's Liberation Army and probably Ministry of State security agents
in large numbers in the United States planning attacks on America.
So one of the first instances where we will have
a hint that China plans to use ForCity State Asia
will be attacks in the United States going after our grid,
(08:05):
going after starting wildfires, blowing up dams, explosions at shopping
centers to create terror. All of these things can occur
and Tutor in the December twenty twenty two an alert
building inspector in Ridley, California, which is near Fresno in
(08:25):
the Central Valley, she discovered what is a Chinese biological
weapons facility and inside federal and state authorities found more
at least twenty pathogens, probably more, including the one for
a bola and almost a thousand mice that have been
genetically engineered to spread disease. I mentioned abola because we
(08:47):
know that researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology are
now studying a bola, which means they are studying how
to weaponize it. A bola has a natural fatality rate
of fifty percent. One thing about a bullet is that
it's not readily transmissible. But if the Chinese can figure
out how to make it more transmissible, more contagious, then
(09:09):
they will have a weapon that will be able to
kill massive numbers of Americans.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
That is shocking to me.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It makes me think about the fact that Joe Biden
spent four years after through the pandemic and after the pandemic,
not holding China accountable, having no discussions with China on this.
In fact, almost I would say, defending China in many
different instances when people were saying, well, wait a minute,
why aren't we holding them accountable to the pandemic, Why
(09:38):
aren't we holding them accountable to this trade imbalance. Now
you have Donald Trump who has implemented the tariffs, and
I think you've pointed out that he did offer China
an off ramp to the tariff war, but they decided
they didn't want that. There's that still a back and
forth right now with the tariffs on Chinese products. But
(09:59):
when you talk about out what I mean essentially you're
talking about terrorist attacks and the bioweapons. Is there going
to be someone? Will Donald Trump hold China accountable for
the pandemic?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well, I hope so. First of all, in his first term,
he withdrew from the World Health Organization. The reason why
that was important was that China used the WHO to
spread the disease beyond China's borders twice. In January of
twenty twenty, the WHO propagated China's narrative, which senior doctors
(10:34):
knew was senior doctors at the WHO knew was not true.
China's narrative was that stars CoV two, the pathogen that
causes COVID nineteen, was not readily transmissible human to human.
So there is a January ninth statement and a January
fourteenth tweet from the WHO which said, don't worry about this.
(10:57):
That was at a critical time, and that lulled health
officials around the world, including those in America, not to
take precautions that they otherwise would have, which means that
a disease that should have been confined to the central
part of China became a global pandemic. That seven million
people outside of China were killed by a disease. Now
(11:18):
it's one point two million Americans. The reason why all
of this is important is that Joe Biden when he
became president, he put the US back into the who
the organization that helped spread this disease. And the reason
why all of this is critical right now is that
China knows it's killed seven million people, all foreigners who
(11:43):
now there's no deterrent for spreading the next disease that
Chinese technicians and scientists are cooking up in labs like
the Muhan Institute of Virology.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
So do you think that that was a planned test?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
No? I Actually my guess is that the Muhan Institute
of Virology was a medical was a military facility. That
disease my guess. I mean a lot of Chinese nationals
will tell you it was a test, that they deliberately
spread it into China to kill off old people and
(12:20):
then the rest of it. I don't think so. I
think what happened was they were careless at the Muhan
Institute of Virology, and we know that even before the pandemic,
and what happened is this disease got out into the
Chinese public. Sijianping then made a decision he knew that
his country was being devastated by COVID, he wanted to
(12:41):
even the playing field. China has something called comprehensive national power.
It's a series of metrics that measure the strength of countries.
And there's two ways to become stronger. One of them
is you make yourself stronger. The other is you make
others weaker. And that's what Sigimping did. Si Jimping did
two things. For at least five weeks in December twenty
(13:05):
nineteen and January twenty twenty. He told the world that
this was not a contagious disease when he knew that
it was highly transmissible human to human. And then while
he was locking down his own country. Lockdowns are controversial,
but by locking down his own country, he was telling
the world he thought that was an effective way of
stopping disease. So while he was locking down China, he
(13:28):
was forcing other countries to take passengers from China without restrictions. Tutor,
you put those two things together, and it shows that
the spread of COVID nineteen beyond China's borders was deliberate.
So I believe that Sigmping decided that he was going
to weaken the rest of the world by spreading this
(13:49):
disease outside of China.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
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Now stay tuned. We've got more after this. China has
a weakened economy already. I mean we've heard rumblings that
they are not economically sound right now.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Why.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I mean, obviously coming out of the pandemic, that's not good.
But why not negotiate with Donald Trump if you're already
in a poor position economically. Isn't a trade war just
going to hurt them even more?
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yes, it will hurt them even more. And the Chinese economy,
i believe now, is contracting and we can see this from,
for instance, price data from February, March and April, which
shows that China's in a deflationary spiral. Deflation is an
economy killer and is inconsistent with China's reports of robust
economic growth. To answer your question, I think that Cejimping
(15:56):
has put himself into a position where he has to
he has to do the worst thing possible, and the
reason is for half a decade at least, he's been
telling the Chinese people and other senior Chinese leaders that
due to his policies, that China has surpassed the United States.
Now he can't be seen in negotiating with the United
(16:18):
States in good faith because he's told everybody he doesn't
have to. So I think that he has configured the
Chinese political system so that only the most hostile answers
are considered to be acceptable, and he cannot deal in
good faith with us, and by the way, he isn't.
On March. On May twelfth, China the United States jointly
(16:40):
negotiated and announced an agreement, and China has already violated
that agreement. So really what we're talking about is a
Sijenping who can't deal cooperatively with the United States or
with the rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Well, who are his allies right now?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Because there's rumblings that he's working with Putin, there's rumblings
that he's working with North Korea. There's also rumbling cities
working with Iran. That these are all this is like
the axis of evil. So who are the allies of
the Chinese.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Well, China has technically has only one military ally, and
that's North Korea. But clearly China Si Jimping is on
the same wavelength as Vladimir Putin. One can even argue,
as I do, that the Ukraine War is actually a
proxy contest where China is trying to destabilize Europe. Through Putin.
(17:33):
We see the same thing. China has fully supported Iran
in its assault on Israel, so that's October seventh. China
have been supporting Pakistan in the Four Day Conflict with India,
and China has been fielding insurgencies in North Africa that
look like wars. So Si Jimping has been trying to
destabilize the world, and that goes back to sort of
(17:55):
the MAOIs playbook. So those are his friends, those are
the instruments that he uses, and his goals are malign.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think when you're in the United States sometimes you
can see just the dynamics of how China and the
US interact. You just kind of look at how the
US is interacting with all of these other foreign leaders
in foreign countries. But bringing up the fact that China
would want to destabilize Europe and to use Russia as
kind of their useful idiot to go into Ukraine and
(18:28):
stabilize Europe and Eastern Europe and then obviously Western Europe
as well. I mean, really, you're getting everybody involved, because
now the entire world is focused in on what is
Putin going to do? And they were very effective in
manipulating the United States because look at it impacted our
entire political system for years, having people.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Go back and forth on it. Are you with Ukraine?
Are you not with Ukraine?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Now we have this similar situation with Israel and power Stein.
In the last few days, we've seen this horrific murder
in Washington, d C. Of these two people who were
at the museum, the Israeli Museum. They were a young
couple just about to get engaged American and I believe
(19:18):
the man was from Israel.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I think so when you see that happening on US soil,
and this is something that we haven't really discussed on
the podcast, but it shook me waking up to that news.
I think we are so desensitized to seeing a murder
on the streets of New York or a murder on
the streets of DC, that it's easy to overlook the
(19:44):
fact that this is a terror attack. This is a mindset.
This is someone who was radicalized on US soil. And
when you start to hear really the teachings that come
from the socialist group that is on college campuses, and
they have infiltrated these college campuses and they are using
they really the reality is they don't actually care about
(20:07):
the Palestine Israel war. They are using that as a
way to radicalize these kids and force the nation, destabilize
the United States, and force the nation into a socialist economy.
I don't know why this is not getting more attention
that this is not just a random act. This is
(20:27):
someone who was radicalized by a group that is on
our college campuses. And when we talk about Harvard and
when we talk about the University of Michigan where we
just had this happen and the Attorney General arrested these
people and then let them go, we have a real problem.
It's not free speech. It's a real problem on our
(20:50):
college campuses where someone got to the point where they
decided to go murder a young couple in cold blood
on the streets of the United States.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yes, the US capital is not safe. And to your
broader point, foreign agents are working in field emboldened Just
to give you an example, twenty twenty three, President Biden's
nine to eleven deal with Iran. As a part of that,
Biden gave clemency to five Iranian operatives and he allowed
(21:25):
three of them to stay on US soil at a
time when other Iranian operatives were trying to kill the
former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and other senior State
Department officials, and as we subsequently learned, Iranian officials were
trying to murder Donald Trump. So really, this is to
(21:46):
me indescribable. Why he you know, why Biden would allow
these dangerous elements to stay in our country. And you know,
we know that China has been behind a lot of
this Islamic radicalism fueling it. So, for instance, on Chinese
own TikTok, of the videos on Hamas, ninety six point
(22:06):
five percent of them support the terrorist group. That's because
China's been manipulating the curation algorithm of TikTok to support
the Palestinian quote unquote clause. So this is being directed
from Beijing. There are so many examples of this infiltration
of our society and it's going to be very difficult,
(22:30):
but we have to remove these elements of the Chinese
Communist Party. We have to remove the Iranians, we have
to remove the Russians, because they are here to take
down our country, not just to destabilize us, but to
actually take down the United States of America.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, and I think that people are realizing that we're
close to that. If they get a few more people
on that team, they are closer than I think the
average person thinks to wrecking our way of life and
getting in there and destroying that. You know, I come
from Michigan, so I we have a big Arab American
(23:07):
population here. And the thing that breaks my heart over
this situation is that when I talk to my friends there,
they're like, look, we want peace. And Donald Trump has
my friends who are supportive of Donald Trump. Donald Trump
has said that he wants peace too. We want peace.
This movement is not some Most of these people are
(23:28):
people who have no connection to that region whatsoever, and
they have been radicalized by an idea, but it's something
they don't fully understand. And instead of wanting peace, like
these guys do, they want to ratchet things up.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
They want to there.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Look, I mean you don't you're not looking for peace
if you're murdering someone in cold blood on the sidewalk
after an event.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
That's right. And we have a foreign elements feeling this,
you know, it's difficult for our society to deal with
it because every time we try to someone screams racism.
But we've got to remember that we've got dangerous elements
in our country and we have to either imprison or
expel them because this is we're getting to the point
(24:16):
where they can create the worst outcomes for us. So
this is absolutely essential. And a lot of people don't
like this. You know, they're targeting a group. But unfortunately,
for instance, China has weaponized Chinese nationals on our soil
against us, and we have to understand that this is
(24:38):
something that we have to look at with a China focus.
It's not we're racist, it's Chinese regime has taken these
nationals and turned them against us and has compelled them
to commit crimes against the United States. This is difficult
for us to deal with, but we're going to have
(24:58):
to do it if we want to save country.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
What is the average life like in China?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And I ask this because every private high school I
know in the United States has Chinese exchange students, and
that seems to be the number one group from other countries.
The number one group of international students comes from China,
and I think, what kind of a lifestyle do you
have there if you get to send your child to
(25:26):
America to study for high school because I would imagine
you have to be somewhat affluent to do that, and
in that case, then you probably have a connection to
the Chinese government. Because my impression, and correct me if
I'm wrong, my impression is that if you are in
a position where you are allowed to send your child
out of the country to America to study, you must
(25:48):
be given that permission by the Chinese government, and you
must have a certain amount of money from your experience
with the Chinese government. And if that is the case,
are we just being naive taking all of these internets
students from China.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, those are great points, because you're right. I mean,
for Chinese national to come to the United States, they
need a passport which is issued by the Chinese central government.
And as you point out, the students who are coming
and studying in our high schools and our colleges and universities,
they're affluent because by and large they are paying the
(26:22):
entire tuition and cost of their education. The way to
get rich in China is to manipulate relationships with the
regime or actually be a member of the Communist party.
So there's a lot of that, you know, we have seen,
and there's a lot of different explanations for the Chinese
(26:42):
nationals who are in our country. I mean, some of
them who've come across the borders, both northern and southern ones.
Some of them are just desperate Chinese who manage to
make their way out and want to live in a
free society. Others it's apparent that they are People's Liberation Army,
Ministry of State security and are coming here to take
(27:06):
us down. And then you have your two hundred and
seventy seven thousand Chinese students on our campuses. About thirteen
percent or so of them commit espionage, and they are compelled.
Do you know that Just studies have been done on this,
and this has been studied, and obviously you can't get
(27:28):
a precise number, but that is an estimate. We've got
to remember that the Chinese regime compels Chinese students to
commit espionage. And there are two things. First of all,
there's the twenty seventeen National Intelligence Law of China, which
requires every Chinese national to spy if given a demand
(27:48):
to do so. But more important, there's the Communist Party's
top down system, whereby every Chinese citizen has got to
obey commands of the Communist Party. So this is this
is bad. But we've got to remember, though, that this
is also a US issue. And the reason is we've
(28:09):
known that the Chinese consular officials and Ministry of State
Security agents surveil Chinese students, and we've allowed that to occur.
And we know what the Chinese regime is doing in
terms of not only monitoring, but coercing Chinese students into
committing crimes against the United States. So this is really
on us as well, and we have got to dismantle
(28:31):
those Chinese networks that surveil and monitor and coerce Chinese students.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast. Well, I'm not giving us a
pass on this by any means, but don't you think
that the culture that Americans grow up in is so
counterable to that that we can't even imagine our government
asking us to spy. It's something that I think is
(28:58):
so countercultural that we reject the notion because we think
it's impossible.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Oh. Absolutely, And you made a really critical point. We
do not understand the Chinese regime, and because we don't
understand it, we've allowed it to infiltrate our society and
our general norms of what we believe prevent us from
acting effectively against the regime that is here to destroy us.
(29:25):
So we are going to take measures which you know,
most Americans would consider to be extraordinary, but which I
believe are absolutely necessary to protect us. And because we
are not taking those measures, I fear for the future.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
That's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I mean, is this something that on the outside looking in,
we're all going, gosh, this is terribly scary. And you
talk about the lab that was found in the United States,
and this all seems I mean, when you start talking
about bioweapons, it feels like that hits so quick and
it spread so fast that once it's here, there's really
(30:02):
no way to combat it. So in my mind, I'm like, well,
there must be an entire government agency dedicated to keeping
us safe.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
What is there?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Unfortunately no, Well, there are government agencies that have that
as their mission statement. But unfortunately, we are not prepared
to do that right now, and so you know, we
have just give you an example. You know, President Trump
was very good in his second term. He got us
(30:34):
out of the World Health Organization again, but we have
yet to impose costs on China for spreading COVID. And
as I mentioned before, Cajan Ping now knows that he
killed one point two million Americans with COVID and there
was no cost imposed on China. So we've got to
go beyond that now. President Trump, while he was out
(30:55):
of office between his two terms, actually talked about reparations,
and for most Americans that would be going far, much
too far. But the point is we need to create
in some way tutor, whether it's reparations or something else.
We need to create that deterrent because we know that
Chinese are working on diseases. They're going to weaponize a
(31:17):
bola or something else, and we could very well be
hit with another epidemic, and that epidemic is going to
be more deadly than COVID. So it's us, it's on us.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
You make such a good point, because I asked you earlier, well,
was that just a test and even you said likely not.
But even if it's not, it ultimately was because they
learned from it. So now they've learned that we're not
going to come back. There was no punishment, and you know,
there was no punishment worldwide. There was no global response
(31:52):
to China saying what are.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You going to do?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I haven't even I don't even feel like I have
that assurance that they were, like, you know, but huge mistake.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
We totally screwed this one up.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
This is what we're going to do to ensure that
can never happen again.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Has that happened?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
No, of course not. And you know, the one global
institution that is meant to where health is its mission,
which is the World Health Organization, was complicit in this
spread because who doctor is knew from the get go
in January twenty twenty that COVID nineteen was highly transmissible,
(32:28):
and yet that institution was spreading China's narrative when it
knew it was wrong. So we really have this global
health institution which is responsible in part for the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
And I just don't understand you can be tried for
war crimes.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I mean, the entire globe can come after you if
you commit war crimes. How can it be that if
you are so careless with research that you can kill
off millions of people, that there are no repercussions, that
there's no global this is hey, hey, wait a minute,
you can't do this.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Seven million people outside of China died from COVID. We
can argue about the number, you know, and people say, well,
it's controversial about how many people actually died from COVID,
but any number above zero is unacceptable. So we are
talking in the millions. And yeah, this is if you
(33:24):
want to put another point on it. Because Sijenping was
targeting a specific group which was non Chinese, this technically
qualifies as a genocide. Is this is more than the
third Reichs genocidal total.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But I mean, you've got the weaker genocide. You've got
quite a bit. There's so many human rights offenses there.
And I know I've kept you a little long. I
just want to say I think that there is a
problem with us here in the United States especially. I
would say my generation lived through nine to eleven, so
aw the impact of the racial conflict that happened because
(34:04):
of that, and the prejudice that occurred out of nine
to eleven, because I do think that a lot of
people went, oh my gosh, if that person did it,
then people.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
That look like that might also do it.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And I and my generation, I think is so conscious
of that now that we don't want to We don't ever.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Want that to happen.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
We don't want a group to be discriminated against in
the United States. And I think that's what you're saying
is when we hear Donald Trump say We're going to
go after these people and make sure the bad guys
are out of the country. There are so many Americans who,
because our culture is to say we want to be inclusive,
we want to be loving, we want to allow everybody
(34:45):
their freedoms, we're naive to the dangers. But there's this
there's this innate feeling of like we don't want this
prejudice to come back.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yes, then that is what's something, that's what our enemies exploit.
A lot of these charges of quote unquote racism are
basically Beijing's propaganda points, and so we have to understand
that they are manipulating us in that way, and we're
going to have to get over a lot of those
(35:17):
views because if we don't we're going to lose our country.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Strong words. That's it's going to be a hard cultural
change for us. But I do think that Donald Trump
is bringing hard truths out every single day, and obviously
we're seeing this when we see the leftist media go crazy.
But I think that those are hard truths that we
need to learn because we are a free nation and
(35:43):
we are very naive to how other regimes work.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I couldn't say it better. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Thank you so much, Gordon Chain, thank you, and I
want you to tell us your book and give us
your Twitter handle because I want people to be out
there following your ex handle whatever we're calling it now.
I want people to make sure that they can follow
you because this is such important stuff. They need to
know where it's coming from and how to continue to
follow what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah, my ex sandal is at Gordon G. Chang g
O R d O n G c h A n
G and I archive all my articles for free on
my website, which is www dot G O R d
O n c h A n G dot com.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Thank you so much for joining me, Thank you, tutor,
and thank you all for joining us on the Tutor
Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go to Tutordison
podcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or if
you want to watch the video, you can check it
out at rumble at Tutor Dixon and join us next time.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Have a blessed day,
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