June 20, 2025 • 23 mins
In this conversation, Helen Raleigh discusses her book 'Not Outsiders' which explores the political activism of Asian Americans from the 19th century to today. She addresses the misconceptions surrounding Asian American identity, the historical waves of activism, and the current challenges faced by the community, particularly in education and meritocracy. Raleigh shares personal anecdotes about her journey as an immigrant and emphasizes the importance of understanding and cherishing Western ideals. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Wednesday & Friday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, and welcome back to Marcowitch Show on iHeartRadio. My
guest today is Helen Raleigh, an immigrant from communist China
and American by choice. Her latest book is called Not
Outsiders Asian Americans Political Activism from the nineteenth Century to Today,
and it's out now anywhere books are sold. Hi, Helen,
so nice to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thanks for having me, Caara.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So, why are Asian Americans even sometimes considered outsiders? Why
did a book need to be written to say that
they're not.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's a really good question because if you look at
a service, there are a lot of Americans continue to
feel this perpetual bias treating you know, Americans as outsiders,
especially since twenty twenty, the Racial Reckoning. There's a new
derogatory term invented by the progressives describe Asians as white adjacent.
(01:06):
So no matter how long we stay here, basically that
term deprive our history of long history in this country
as well as our own agency. So this term implies
that basically, Asian Americans, our only success comes from acting
(01:30):
white essentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the perpetual question, no
matter where you go, no matter how fluent English we speak,
the perpetual question is always where you're from, and it's
never enough until you mentioned somewhere else, you know, far
outside of the United States. So is this perpetual bias as
well as a new directory description about the Asian Americans
(01:55):
compelled me to decide that I must write this book
in order to you basically correct or refute those misunderstanding
about Asian America. Hasn't been here long enough, we haven't,
you know, the misunderstanding of we haven't made any contribution
to the civil rights movement, We're just writing a cocktail
of other people's other groups achievement, or we have no agencies,
(02:20):
or our success comes from active white So it's this
this a political environment that I feel compelled to write
this book.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
It's interesting. It's like, similar to the Jewish population in America,
we're both called white when white is a bad thing,
but not white when that's the better option. It's it's
funny that there's that alignment, Like Asians are only considered
white when it's a negative right. So have Asians been
(02:52):
politically active for their entire time in this country?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Absolutely so. In my book, I basically look at the
trace back to the history, starting from eighteen fifty from
the Gold Rush to the present day, I identified the
three waves of Asian Americans political activism. So the first
wave was starting from eighteen fifty to basically to before
(03:18):
right before World War Two. During this time, Asian Americans
face actually was facing systemic discrimination, especially Chinese Americans. The
United States government passed the eighteen eighty two Chinese Exclusion Act,
which was the first immigration and the only immigration act
that preventing Chinese Americans from become naturalized a citizen. And
(03:41):
so during this period of time, most political activism was
focusing on, you know, opposing those discriminate, discriminatory immigration laws.
And the second wave is starting from World War Two
to the early nineteen nineties. Basically, you know, this covered
the struggle of Japanese Americans the Interment as well as
(04:03):
later on the l A riots against the you know
uh involved involved the discrimination against the Korean Americans as
well as the murder of Wincent Chen, a young Chinese
man in Detroit during the anti Japanese you know imports
you know protests. And and then the third wave is
(04:24):
actually more relevant to us UH contemporary because it involved
how Asian Americans pushed back the progress of war merits,
a meritocracy, and so involved cases such as you know
the s f A case against Harvard as well as
both in California as well in Washington State that Asian
(04:48):
Americans led multi ethnic correalitions to push back by the
initiatives try to bring back affirmative actions. Right.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I've seen that in New York before I moved, where
the Asian American population was getting much more politically active
than they had been, and it was because of education.
Do you see that as kind of the current frontier.
I know, merit is definitely a big part of it,
but even beyond just merit, I think the push for
(05:20):
better schools, the push for a stronger education system. Do
you see that as kind of what the Asian activism
is heading into.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Definitely. So there are two drivers within Asian communities political activism,
both immigration issues as well as education. Using myself example
why education is so important to Asian community. I came
here as an immigrant with less than one hundred dollars
in my pocket. I was the first one in my family,
you know, to come to the United States. I had
(05:53):
no other relations and have no other support, so I
was able to obertain to master degrees based on merit,
based on merit based scholarships, and so within the Asian community,
you see the spy focation of some Asian Americans have
been here for generations, you know, since eighteen fifties, but
(06:15):
some of us are like me, We're we're new immigrants.
So many of us come here with nothing, and education
has been our only way to realize our American dream
to climb the economic ladder. That is why it is
so important for Asian Americans to have a fair education
system where our kids can have fair chance, not not
(06:38):
have to suffer Asian penalty just because they're they're they're
they're Asian. That's why they have to score you know,
hundreds of points of higher and be subjective all those biases,
personality biases as well.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marco It Show. Do you feel
like there have been some successes in Asian activism in
the last I don't know, a decade or two.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, definitely the Supreme Court cases, the SFA versus Harvard
that the decades lasted for almost a decade, but eventually
the you know, I mean Harvard fought for the two
set nail with all its financial power, but in the
Supreme Court rude against Harvard. Basically deem Harvard race based
(07:27):
admission college tuition, Yeah, is unconstitutional. And also, as I
mentioned earlier, they're balid initiative successes, you know boast in
California as well as the Washington State that they pushed
back about the Batter initiative to bring back affirmative actions.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
The Harvard one. Do you feel like there has been
a shift in their admissions, Like, I know they're not
allowed to take race into consideration anymore, but it seems
like they still do.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, in Harvard's particular case, they still do it in
a very sneaky way instead of right as still did
you identify the race? They will ask im probing questions
such as tell us about your life experiences. So yes,
So the changes slowly coming from some of the higher
app but I definitely see uh changes in other areas too,
(08:15):
you know, for example, the University of Florida. You know,
before your current searching for the president, University of Florida
that actually can selt under uh bensas they can president
sas they can sol all their DEI you know, initiative
and use the money to fund the other you know,
education purposes. And also you see this bigger change in
(08:36):
corporate world. You know a lot of corporations, even in
clear high tech, which is very vocal areas, they actually
push back our DEI hirings as well as you know,
remove race from some of their hiring practice. So I
definitely see more changes happening in the corporate world as well.
So there's definitely changes.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So you're optimistic, I am, I definitely am.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And also with the last election, you see education as
well as a crime are two of the factory or
two of the factors driving more Asians voted for the Republicans,
including Donald Trump. Especially those votes made a difference in
tight races areas such as Nevada. So I definitely see
(09:19):
there's a you know, political shift among the Asian American
populations as well as you know, because the success built
on success, right when when they see, you know, some
success can happen even in blue state, like the blue
cities like San Francisco, then there's more desire and more
motivation to build on a success to be more politically involved.
(09:42):
So I definitely see that what.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Era of Asian American activism was your favorite to cover
in your book, not Outsiders.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Probably the present one, but there are some interesting ones
from the early eras as well. I don't know if
you know if I were, because the present one is
more related to right here here and now, yeah, right right,
But there are some interesting stories. Let me just tell
you one because that story is really illustrate how America
(10:17):
is more than a place. It is this idea and
anybody can you know, could come this country and he
embraced this idea and become American overnight. So in the
early in the nineteenth century that there was a Chinese
supposed to the first prostitute, you know, from from China.
(10:38):
And you know prostitution, prostitute normally was treated very poorly
back in China. They were like the lowest low, you know,
in the society. Nobody, you know, bother to even take
them seriously or care about them. But so this this woman,
you know, she later opened her own brothel and in Chinatown,
(10:58):
the gangsters came to you demand protection money and to
pay the protection money, and she refused to pay. Guess
what she said. She said, I'm in America. Now I'm American.
I have rights. You can't just ask me to pay
you know, protection money. If you don't go away, I'm
going to sue you. I'm going to report you to
the police, you know a station. What era was that
(11:22):
in the nineteenth century, because she was the first you know,
Chinese constitute, and so this was during the era where
the Chinese face the systematic you know discrimination from the
you know, from the state. Yet it took no time
for her to realize she's in a different country. Now
she's American, she has rights, she can use the legal
(11:45):
means to protect herself and her business. I always find
that stories fascinating. Despite of her possession, right, was it legal?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Was prostitution legal.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Back then in the nineteenth century questionable? It's question about
And you would also help that the chief of the
San Francisco Police was one of her regulars. So yes, yes, yes,
But it's her embrace of this idea, you know, overnight
(12:16):
and she became a different person. I just find that
story is fascinating. I before I write this, before I
wrote this book, I do not know about her. Only
through research about you know, writing this book. I'm so
glad I get to know her story and you know,
get to put her story in my book, you know,
keep her name remembered a by other people. This is
(12:38):
the earliest Asian Americans. How they embraced American ideal and
define themselves, protect themselves.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
What made you become an American by choice?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That's so interesting question. So I, as I mentioned earlier,
I grew up in comeless China, and in my lifetime
I experienced drama take political as well as economic changes.
So when I was young in China, there were still
rationing system. Everything was Rationian, including food. So my Chinese
(13:12):
name happened to be a boy's name. And you know,
the food ration was distributed based on gender as well
as age, So for the same age boys and girls,
a boy was allocated you know, four more pound the
rights each month than a girl. But because my name
was a boy's name, and the bureaucrats, you know, you
(13:34):
know how incompetent they were tending to make mistakes. So
for a while I was receiving a food ration that
meant for a boy. But even with those additional for
more pound the rice, I was still hungry all the time.
My childhood dream were often filled with food. I always
dream about food. Yeah, So eventually, you know, when the
(13:57):
police came to our house to do you know, random search,
which was totally normal back then in China. They did
not need a warrant. And of course, you know, he
compared our papers versus people in the house. He realized
the government made a mistake. I received supposedly additional food raction,
so he demanded my family to to pay the government back.
(14:20):
And that experience really left a profound impact in my heart.
I didn't think about the grand you know, ideas such
as freedom and equality. All I thought was, you know,
first of all, why did I have to eat the
last food just because I grow right? And the second
of all, who gets you said, except me? Why can't
(14:41):
I decaid how much I have? You know, I could eat?
And it was those primal ideas from that experience shold
me that eventually I decided I want to go to
a place where I didn't decide how I want to
live my life, including how much food I want to eat.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
The freed what you want is so basic, It's.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So basic, Yet in a different society you under authoritary regime,
that is something we've been deprived of. So yeah, so
it's those basic ideas from those early days a childhood
experience showed me to want to come to America, you know,
to live a different kind of life.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
What do you worry about?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
My biggest worry is that the West, including the United States. Uh,
there are some people in the West and the United
States they do not cherish the country, whether the Western
ideal has offered to them. They are banned down to
destroying it. And somehow they feel like they can always
(15:42):
do better than the communists in China or the community
the former Soviet Union. And I've been screaming from top
of my lungs. You said, you are not going to
do better. It has been tried everywhere and all they
all fail. Do not give up? What do you know?
What do you have here? And especially I don't want
to live in a life kind of life again. And
(16:03):
that's my biggest worry. That people who here are so
used to the freedom and the prosperity provided it by
this you know, system, that they're ready to show it
away and they're working hard to throw it away.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
They don't know that it's been tried in all the
different ways that they imagine. It hasn't been tried. I
just I always hear from especially young people who think
leftism is just you know, just another idea, just another
path that we could all take. They don't understand. They
think that, oh, if we'll do it better now, we'll do.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
It differently now.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
But it's been tried in all these different ways. They
all thought that they would do it better, they all
thought that they could force an equal outcome, and you know,
they ended up many of them dead because of it.
So do you say that that's a lack of education
or what is it?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I think is definitely education is a big part of
it because our schools, as you you know, you have
kids in schools, so you know that our schools are
now focused on teaching kids the truths about what's really happened, uh,
you know, like in communism, as well as the truth
and beauty of a you know, Western society. But but
(17:19):
I also think beyond education is that there's also misunderstanding
of the issues. The problem we see in our society.
It's been mischaracterized as you know, capitalism. Capitalism that's why
we have poverty, that's why we have homeless problem without
(17:39):
you know, drill down to the real root cause of
those mostly come out of you know, government policies. So
so I think we do. Yeah, definitely, education is the
start that we need to educate our kids, young people
better about not only about the evil of communism that
you and I live through, but or about the truth
(18:01):
and beauty, prosperity of what the Western civilization, about what
the American ideal have afforded us. You know, we need
to do from both and goals.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marco It Show. What would you
tell your sixteen year old self? What advice would you
give her?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I would tell myself that it's a modified quote from
a doctor, Martin Luther King. He said, you know, it's
always the right time to do the right thing. So
I would tell my sixteen year older self that if
you believe it's the right thing to do, don't wait
too long, you know, to do it, and it's not
(18:44):
He was more referred to social justice issues, but I
would see it as more just generally for life, you know,
life wisdoms, like you know, if you believe it's the
right time to have kids, and honestly, there's no right
time to have kids, right I.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Like to say the right time to have kids is
right now.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Exactly I like, I like what you're thinking. You know.
The only the reason I think that because you know, personally,
I feel one of my biggest regrets is I waited
too long because I well, I was, you know young.
My head that was filled with this idea that the
career comes first, and you know, ambition comes first, and
(19:25):
you know having kids can wait. But you know, after
losing my child is through pregnancy loss that I finally
realized that, you know, there's certain things just cannot wait
in life. That and there is no perfect timing for
the things you want to do. So and you know
what ambitions and the careers, those things are important. But
(19:48):
you probably heard the saying as well as I do
that nobody on their desk that wish they're you know,
more famous or work. The more right it. The sooner
we realize what really matters in life and put time
and the resource to do in it right away, the better.
So that's what I would tell myself and also all
the other young women that EMU believe is a rising
(20:09):
that you do not wait to have kids.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I love that so much and I talk about that
a lot on the show where women are kind of
deferring child and birth they're waiting to have kids. Look,
sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes the time isn't right.
You know, I was best friends with my husband for
a decade before we started dating. We wasted a lot
of time just being friends and we could have been
(20:34):
married and having kids. But the idea that you put
off family to have a career, I think that that's backwards.
I think it's a lot easier to have a career
when you have stability, and you have family, and you
have the things that you set out to have. I've
loved this conversation. I think you have so many interesting
(20:57):
things to say, and I think your book is fantastic.
Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners
on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Well, I'm hesitating to tell other people how to improve
your lives.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You can tell them they you know, from my own experience,
I would say as I getting older, I.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Learned that not to waste the time people are the
things that are not worth it. But definitely be generous
with your time and attention with the people, and you
know things that you consider that worth it. A quick
example when I was when I used to talk before
I lost my child, when I used to talk to
my parents on FaceTime. I used to put the phone
(21:45):
against my computer, so I wasn't really paying attention, you know,
you know, like you know, I hear the babble. I
know I heard the babbeling, but I'm like, oh, they're
just repeating the same old stuff again again. You know.
But after I lost my child, I realized that I'm
not always going to have my last one, I mean,
my loved one tomorrow, right, we do not know what
(22:06):
the tomorrow holds. So and I realized my parents are
not always going to be here forever, and someday I'm
going to regret I'm not paying attention to what they say.
So nowadays, when I talk to them, computer shut off.
I give them my full attention, even if they're telling
me things they told me like a hundred times before. Yeah,
are your parents Your parents knows that your parents knows
(22:26):
when you are paying attention when you are not, of course,
And I'm just grateful because I see other people who
are the lost their parents. I'm grateful that I still
have my parents here. And so I think the highest
formal generosity is always be willing to share your time
and attention with people you care so don't waste time
people are not worth it, but be generous with people
(22:48):
who definitely are worth it.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I love that so much. She is Helen Raleigh. Her
book is Not Outsiders Asian Americans Political activism from the
nineteenth century to today. Buy it anyway. Thank you so
much for coming on, Helen.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Thank you m
Hi, and welcome back to Marcowitch Show on iHeartRadio. My
guest today is Helen Raleigh, an immigrant from communist China
and American by choice. Her latest book is called Not
Outsiders Asian Americans Political Activism from the nineteenth Century to Today,
and it's out now anywhere books are sold. Hi, Helen,
so nice to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thanks for having me, Caara.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So, why are Asian Americans even sometimes considered outsiders? Why
did a book need to be written to say that
they're not.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's a really good question because if you look at
a service, there are a lot of Americans continue to
feel this perpetual bias treating you know, Americans as outsiders,
especially since twenty twenty, the Racial Reckoning. There's a new
derogatory term invented by the progressives describe Asians as white adjacent.
(01:06):
So no matter how long we stay here, basically that
term deprive our history of long history in this country
as well as our own agency. So this term implies
that basically, Asian Americans, our only success comes from acting
(01:30):
white essentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the perpetual question, no
matter where you go, no matter how fluent English we speak,
the perpetual question is always where you're from, and it's
never enough until you mentioned somewhere else, you know, far
outside of the United States. So is this perpetual bias as
well as a new directory description about the Asian Americans
(01:55):
compelled me to decide that I must write this book
in order to you basically correct or refute those misunderstanding
about Asian America. Hasn't been here long enough, we haven't,
you know, the misunderstanding of we haven't made any contribution
to the civil rights movement, We're just writing a cocktail
of other people's other groups achievement, or we have no agencies,
(02:20):
or our success comes from active white So it's this
this a political environment that I feel compelled to write
this book.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
It's interesting. It's like, similar to the Jewish population in America,
we're both called white when white is a bad thing,
but not white when that's the better option. It's it's
funny that there's that alignment, Like Asians are only considered
white when it's a negative right. So have Asians been
(02:52):
politically active for their entire time in this country?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Absolutely so. In my book, I basically look at the
trace back to the history, starting from eighteen fifty from
the Gold Rush to the present day, I identified the
three waves of Asian Americans political activism. So the first
wave was starting from eighteen fifty to basically to before
(03:18):
right before World War Two. During this time, Asian Americans
face actually was facing systemic discrimination, especially Chinese Americans. The
United States government passed the eighteen eighty two Chinese Exclusion Act,
which was the first immigration and the only immigration act
that preventing Chinese Americans from become naturalized a citizen. And
(03:41):
so during this period of time, most political activism was
focusing on, you know, opposing those discriminate, discriminatory immigration laws.
And the second wave is starting from World War Two
to the early nineteen nineties. Basically, you know, this covered
the struggle of Japanese Americans the Interment as well as
(04:03):
later on the l A riots against the you know
uh involved involved the discrimination against the Korean Americans as
well as the murder of Wincent Chen, a young Chinese
man in Detroit during the anti Japanese you know imports
you know protests. And and then the third wave is
(04:24):
actually more relevant to us UH contemporary because it involved
how Asian Americans pushed back the progress of war merits,
a meritocracy, and so involved cases such as you know
the s f A case against Harvard as well as
both in California as well in Washington State that Asian
(04:48):
Americans led multi ethnic correalitions to push back by the
initiatives try to bring back affirmative actions. Right.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I've seen that in New York before I moved, where
the Asian American population was getting much more politically active
than they had been, and it was because of education.
Do you see that as kind of the current frontier.
I know, merit is definitely a big part of it,
but even beyond just merit, I think the push for
(05:20):
better schools, the push for a stronger education system. Do
you see that as kind of what the Asian activism
is heading into.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Definitely. So there are two drivers within Asian communities political activism,
both immigration issues as well as education. Using myself example
why education is so important to Asian community. I came
here as an immigrant with less than one hundred dollars
in my pocket. I was the first one in my family,
you know, to come to the United States. I had
(05:53):
no other relations and have no other support, so I
was able to obertain to master degrees based on merit,
based on merit based scholarships, and so within the Asian community,
you see the spy focation of some Asian Americans have
been here for generations, you know, since eighteen fifties, but
(06:15):
some of us are like me, We're we're new immigrants.
So many of us come here with nothing, and education
has been our only way to realize our American dream
to climb the economic ladder. That is why it is
so important for Asian Americans to have a fair education
system where our kids can have fair chance, not not
(06:38):
have to suffer Asian penalty just because they're they're they're
they're Asian. That's why they have to score you know,
hundreds of points of higher and be subjective all those biases,
personality biases as well.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marco It Show. Do you feel
like there have been some successes in Asian activism in
the last I don't know, a decade or two.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, definitely the Supreme Court cases, the SFA versus Harvard
that the decades lasted for almost a decade, but eventually
the you know, I mean Harvard fought for the two
set nail with all its financial power, but in the
Supreme Court rude against Harvard. Basically deem Harvard race based
(07:27):
admission college tuition, Yeah, is unconstitutional. And also, as I
mentioned earlier, they're balid initiative successes, you know boast in
California as well as the Washington State that they pushed
back about the Batter initiative to bring back affirmative actions.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
The Harvard one. Do you feel like there has been
a shift in their admissions, Like, I know they're not
allowed to take race into consideration anymore, but it seems
like they still do.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, in Harvard's particular case, they still do it in
a very sneaky way instead of right as still did
you identify the race? They will ask im probing questions
such as tell us about your life experiences. So yes,
So the changes slowly coming from some of the higher
app but I definitely see uh changes in other areas too,
(08:15):
you know, for example, the University of Florida. You know,
before your current searching for the president, University of Florida
that actually can selt under uh bensas they can president
sas they can sol all their DEI you know, initiative
and use the money to fund the other you know,
education purposes. And also you see this bigger change in
(08:36):
corporate world. You know a lot of corporations, even in
clear high tech, which is very vocal areas, they actually
push back our DEI hirings as well as you know,
remove race from some of their hiring practice. So I
definitely see more changes happening in the corporate world as well.
So there's definitely changes.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So you're optimistic, I am, I definitely am.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And also with the last election, you see education as
well as a crime are two of the factory or
two of the factors driving more Asians voted for the Republicans,
including Donald Trump. Especially those votes made a difference in
tight races areas such as Nevada. So I definitely see
(09:19):
there's a you know, political shift among the Asian American
populations as well as you know, because the success built
on success, right when when they see, you know, some
success can happen even in blue state, like the blue
cities like San Francisco, then there's more desire and more
motivation to build on a success to be more politically involved.
(09:42):
So I definitely see that what.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Era of Asian American activism was your favorite to cover
in your book, not Outsiders.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Probably the present one, but there are some interesting ones
from the early eras as well. I don't know if
you know if I were, because the present one is
more related to right here here and now, yeah, right right,
But there are some interesting stories. Let me just tell
you one because that story is really illustrate how America
(10:17):
is more than a place. It is this idea and
anybody can you know, could come this country and he
embraced this idea and become American overnight. So in the
early in the nineteenth century that there was a Chinese
supposed to the first prostitute, you know, from from China.
(10:38):
And you know prostitution, prostitute normally was treated very poorly
back in China. They were like the lowest low, you know,
in the society. Nobody, you know, bother to even take
them seriously or care about them. But so this this woman,
you know, she later opened her own brothel and in Chinatown,
(10:58):
the gangsters came to you demand protection money and to
pay the protection money, and she refused to pay. Guess
what she said. She said, I'm in America. Now I'm American.
I have rights. You can't just ask me to pay
you know, protection money. If you don't go away, I'm
going to sue you. I'm going to report you to
the police, you know a station. What era was that
(11:22):
in the nineteenth century, because she was the first you know,
Chinese constitute, and so this was during the era where
the Chinese face the systematic you know discrimination from the
you know, from the state. Yet it took no time
for her to realize she's in a different country. Now
she's American, she has rights, she can use the legal
(11:45):
means to protect herself and her business. I always find
that stories fascinating. Despite of her possession, right, was it legal?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Was prostitution legal.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Back then in the nineteenth century questionable? It's question about
And you would also help that the chief of the
San Francisco Police was one of her regulars. So yes, yes, yes,
But it's her embrace of this idea, you know, overnight
(12:16):
and she became a different person. I just find that
story is fascinating. I before I write this, before I
wrote this book, I do not know about her. Only
through research about you know, writing this book. I'm so
glad I get to know her story and you know,
get to put her story in my book, you know,
keep her name remembered a by other people. This is
(12:38):
the earliest Asian Americans. How they embraced American ideal and
define themselves, protect themselves.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
What made you become an American by choice?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That's so interesting question. So I, as I mentioned earlier,
I grew up in comeless China, and in my lifetime
I experienced drama take political as well as economic changes.
So when I was young in China, there were still
rationing system. Everything was Rationian, including food. So my Chinese
(13:12):
name happened to be a boy's name. And you know,
the food ration was distributed based on gender as well
as age, So for the same age boys and girls,
a boy was allocated you know, four more pound the
rights each month than a girl. But because my name
was a boy's name, and the bureaucrats, you know, you
(13:34):
know how incompetent they were tending to make mistakes. So
for a while I was receiving a food ration that
meant for a boy. But even with those additional for
more pound the rice, I was still hungry all the time.
My childhood dream were often filled with food. I always
dream about food. Yeah, So eventually, you know, when the
(13:57):
police came to our house to do you know, random search,
which was totally normal back then in China. They did
not need a warrant. And of course, you know, he
compared our papers versus people in the house. He realized
the government made a mistake. I received supposedly additional food raction,
so he demanded my family to to pay the government back.
(14:20):
And that experience really left a profound impact in my heart.
I didn't think about the grand you know, ideas such
as freedom and equality. All I thought was, you know,
first of all, why did I have to eat the
last food just because I grow right? And the second
of all, who gets you said, except me? Why can't
(14:41):
I decaid how much I have? You know, I could eat?
And it was those primal ideas from that experience shold
me that eventually I decided I want to go to
a place where I didn't decide how I want to
live my life, including how much food I want to eat.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
The freed what you want is so basic, It's.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So basic, Yet in a different society you under authoritary regime,
that is something we've been deprived of. So yeah, so
it's those basic ideas from those early days a childhood
experience showed me to want to come to America, you know,
to live a different kind of life.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
What do you worry about?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
My biggest worry is that the West, including the United States. Uh,
there are some people in the West and the United
States they do not cherish the country, whether the Western
ideal has offered to them. They are banned down to
destroying it. And somehow they feel like they can always
(15:42):
do better than the communists in China or the community
the former Soviet Union. And I've been screaming from top
of my lungs. You said, you are not going to
do better. It has been tried everywhere and all they
all fail. Do not give up? What do you know?
What do you have here? And especially I don't want
to live in a life kind of life again. And
(16:03):
that's my biggest worry. That people who here are so
used to the freedom and the prosperity provided it by
this you know, system, that they're ready to show it
away and they're working hard to throw it away.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
They don't know that it's been tried in all the
different ways that they imagine. It hasn't been tried. I
just I always hear from especially young people who think
leftism is just you know, just another idea, just another
path that we could all take. They don't understand. They
think that, oh, if we'll do it better now, we'll do.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
It differently now.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
But it's been tried in all these different ways. They
all thought that they would do it better, they all
thought that they could force an equal outcome, and you know,
they ended up many of them dead because of it.
So do you say that that's a lack of education
or what is it?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I think is definitely education is a big part of
it because our schools, as you you know, you have
kids in schools, so you know that our schools are
now focused on teaching kids the truths about what's really happened, uh,
you know, like in communism, as well as the truth
and beauty of a you know, Western society. But but
(17:19):
I also think beyond education is that there's also misunderstanding
of the issues. The problem we see in our society.
It's been mischaracterized as you know, capitalism. Capitalism that's why
we have poverty, that's why we have homeless problem without
(17:39):
you know, drill down to the real root cause of
those mostly come out of you know, government policies. So
so I think we do. Yeah, definitely, education is the
start that we need to educate our kids, young people
better about not only about the evil of communism that
you and I live through, but or about the truth
(18:01):
and beauty, prosperity of what the Western civilization, about what
the American ideal have afforded us. You know, we need
to do from both and goals.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marco It Show. What would you
tell your sixteen year old self? What advice would you
give her?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I would tell myself that it's a modified quote from
a doctor, Martin Luther King. He said, you know, it's
always the right time to do the right thing. So
I would tell my sixteen year older self that if
you believe it's the right thing to do, don't wait
too long, you know, to do it, and it's not
(18:44):
He was more referred to social justice issues, but I
would see it as more just generally for life, you know,
life wisdoms, like you know, if you believe it's the
right time to have kids, and honestly, there's no right
time to have kids, right I.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Like to say the right time to have kids is
right now.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Exactly I like, I like what you're thinking. You know.
The only the reason I think that because you know, personally,
I feel one of my biggest regrets is I waited
too long because I well, I was, you know young.
My head that was filled with this idea that the
career comes first, and you know, ambition comes first, and
(19:25):
you know having kids can wait. But you know, after
losing my child is through pregnancy loss that I finally
realized that, you know, there's certain things just cannot wait
in life. That and there is no perfect timing for
the things you want to do. So and you know
what ambitions and the careers, those things are important. But
(19:48):
you probably heard the saying as well as I do
that nobody on their desk that wish they're you know,
more famous or work. The more right it. The sooner
we realize what really matters in life and put time
and the resource to do in it right away, the better.
So that's what I would tell myself and also all
the other young women that EMU believe is a rising
(20:09):
that you do not wait to have kids.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I love that so much and I talk about that
a lot on the show where women are kind of
deferring child and birth they're waiting to have kids. Look,
sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes the time isn't right.
You know, I was best friends with my husband for
a decade before we started dating. We wasted a lot
of time just being friends and we could have been
(20:34):
married and having kids. But the idea that you put
off family to have a career, I think that that's backwards.
I think it's a lot easier to have a career
when you have stability, and you have family, and you
have the things that you set out to have. I've
loved this conversation. I think you have so many interesting
(20:57):
things to say, and I think your book is fantastic.
Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners
on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Well, I'm hesitating to tell other people how to improve
your lives.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You can tell them they you know, from my own experience,
I would say as I getting older, I.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Learned that not to waste the time people are the
things that are not worth it. But definitely be generous
with your time and attention with the people, and you
know things that you consider that worth it. A quick
example when I was when I used to talk before
I lost my child, when I used to talk to
my parents on FaceTime. I used to put the phone
(21:45):
against my computer, so I wasn't really paying attention, you know,
you know, like you know, I hear the babble. I
know I heard the babbeling, but I'm like, oh, they're
just repeating the same old stuff again again. You know.
But after I lost my child, I realized that I'm
not always going to have my last one, I mean,
my loved one tomorrow, right, we do not know what
(22:06):
the tomorrow holds. So and I realized my parents are
not always going to be here forever, and someday I'm
going to regret I'm not paying attention to what they say.
So nowadays, when I talk to them, computer shut off.
I give them my full attention, even if they're telling
me things they told me like a hundred times before. Yeah,
are your parents Your parents knows that your parents knows
(22:26):
when you are paying attention when you are not, of course,
And I'm just grateful because I see other people who
are the lost their parents. I'm grateful that I still
have my parents here. And so I think the highest
formal generosity is always be willing to share your time
and attention with people you care so don't waste time
people are not worth it, but be generous with people
(22:48):
who definitely are worth it.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I love that so much. She is Helen Raleigh. Her
book is Not Outsiders Asian Americans Political activism from the
nineteenth century to today. Buy it anyway. Thank you so
much for coming on, Helen.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Thank you m
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