July 8, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham is joined by Kelly Maher to discuss the recent tragedy in Texas due to severe flooding, the political reactions surrounding it, and the emergency response efforts that followed. They also touch on the passage of the One Big Beautiful Bill, its implications, and the dynamics of third-party politics, particularly focusing on Elon Musk's recent political maneuvers. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, we are back on normally the show with
normalist takes for when the news gets weird. And when
I say we, I do not mean Carol Markowitz. Today,
the lovely Carol Markowitz is healing her voice, which she
has lost a bit of and so we're gonna let
her rest up. And I am in Colorado. Was my
friend Kelly Maher him, Mary Catherine, Thanks very ny. I
should probably give you a plug, Kelly Maher of restoring standards. Yes,
(00:25):
in the state of Colorado. She is an operative out here.
She's my very good friend. She's also just very entertaining
and grows a great garden which I've been visiting on
her patio. It's true. Welcome, Kelly, Thank you so much
for having me, Mary Catherine. But of course I'm traveling
out here. Yes. See one of our favorite artists, yea
which is relevant to the news today, Robert O'Keane. Yes,
(00:49):
he's a Texas honkitant guy. Oh, he's one of our
favorite We love him, cowboy poet. We've seen him now
live several times. We've seen him in Virginia. Yes, we've
seen him here in Colorado, and we have on the
list before he retires for the second time to go
to Texas at some point and see him together. Yes,
(01:12):
we will work on that. We also he was our
last concert before the pandemic. It won December twenty nineteen,
and he was our only concert during the pandemic because
as a good Texan he was still touring and doing concerts.
We Rebels went out in Northern Virginia where the Rebel
Concert Venue was holding an actual concert, and we went
(01:34):
there and drank beers with other people and had a
singer sing in front of us, and it was fantastic.
It's glad. Robert oak Is Keen is fantastic, and he
is relevant to the news right now because he is
from Kerrville, Texas. Yes, so when we see him on
the day of this podcast, it will not be quite
as celebratory a tone for this concert as it would
(01:54):
otherwise be because it is his hometown has been struck
by a tremendous tragedy. Original fourth. At this point, the
death toll is more than eighty for extreme flooding from
the Guadalupe River. Yeah, including some sixty plus adults and
twenty plus children. And it's a it's almost too sad
(02:15):
to even think about There was an all girls Christian
camp on the banks of the river and Mystic Camp.
Mystic that Robert Okane, as he notes in his video,
raising money for the town. He sent his daughters there,
So it will it will no doubt be sort of
a raw performance and tribute to some extent tomorrow. And
(02:37):
he's he's also been raising a ton of money. I
want to mention the fund which is at TinyURL dot
com slash curve flood Relief ker r flood Relief. My
co host Carol was on this very early on and
was generously matching donations, and so I planned to throw
(02:57):
my money at it as well to the first responders
on the ground taking care of this incredibly tragic situation. Yeah,
it's a real heartbreaker, especially when you have kids. Yeah,
you know, it's just and we're both moms, as is Carol,
and it's just it gets you. It's, like I said,
it's hard to even think about. There are, of course,
(03:19):
stories of heroism, tragic stories of heroism. The director of
the camp was reportedly in the process of trying to
evacuate some of the girls when he lost his life.
It's a family owned camp has been in the family
for generations he had run it since the seventies. The
river rose twenty six feet in under an hour, which
(03:43):
is they have suffered floods there before. It's Central Texas. Yeah,
the ground is dry. It doesn't suck up water when
water comes over the edge, which is part of the
reason it gets so dangerous. In nineteen eighty seven, some
floods struck the same area, struck the camps in that area.
But from what I've read about this, some of it
(04:03):
was just the cabins had held in the past. They
had never seen this type of flooding, this to quite
this degree, to this many fatalities. Certainly, there are, of
course people turning it political as quickly as they can.
(04:23):
I think the worst tweet was like Ron Filipowski, who's
an editor over It might As Touched, which is a
partisan lefty news outlet, who was just like, they voted
for this governance and they get what they deserve. It's like, sir,
they're seven to eight year old children. Yeah, it's unbelievable.
You know, this is I think baseball Crank at National
(04:45):
Review made this point, this is it is unfortunate that
it was the Katrina Playbook, which was successful in really
taking George W. Bush down several notches by filling a
knowledge vacuum with information that often wasn't true. And it's
not that there weren't mistakes. Of course, there are mistakes
in a disaster, but to turn it into a partisan
(05:10):
news event, I think was new in two thousand and five,
and they've just been recycling. No, it's just a standard now.
You will notice they don't recycle it in North Carolina
with western North Carolina floods because there was democratic governor
and Biden with president, So if they don't have the
right person to blame, they won't do that. But in
this case they're doing it somewhat somewhat enthusiastically. And I
(05:32):
just want to note for information's sake, you know CNN's
noting now National Weather Service cuts and NAA cuts. In
the National Weather Service itself says, actually we had extra
staff in the office that night. Other mainstream media folks
(05:53):
have said, oh, there aren't enough alerts, whereas the Austin
meteorologist who is on the case and local says they
do their job and did it well. That's the quote.
There were various warnings at various times of the night,
starting at like twelve forty one am. But most of
this happened when people were sleeping, making it sort of
(06:13):
a worst case scenario of a very risky place, a
very risky time of night, an incredibly strong flood in
a vulnerable place, in a vulnerable place. And also, you
know you do that cost benefit analysis, right, which is like,
what does taking a bunch of little girls out in
(06:36):
the middle of the night in their pgs running them
up a hill? Yes, yes, we have experienced something like
this before and these cabins of hell, right, And I
mean here in Colorado we will regularly get tornado warnings
and it's like do you take your kids downstairs? Do
you know? It's not always clear in the moment. It
(06:59):
becomes a lot clear in retrospect, like oh, if they
would have done this then that, But in the moment
it's not always clear what is the safest or best
thing to do? Yeah, And again, I this is the
thing about all these turning everything political. LA residents do
not deserve wildfires, right right. I don't think that they
(07:23):
are being punished for anything. What I do think is
that local governments in Florida is the greatest example of this,
and the federal government to the extent it can should
have things in place to the greatest degree to help
as quickly as possible when or something like this happens.
To that point, the Texas Air National Guard has been
rescuing folks and has rescued some like three hundred and
(07:44):
eighty five people amazing with their helicopters in very dangerous conditions.
And again I want to say that that url is
TinyURL dot com slash car flood Relief, ker flood Relief.
There's also the Cajun Navy and all these guys who
are always helpful in these situations who you can help
(08:06):
out as well. But I want to play the interview
that oh, I wanted to know one more thing from
a local expert who noted one of the takeaways maybe
that there are too many flash flood warnings in areas
like this that dilute the power of a flash flood warning.
(08:27):
That what I just said about the tornado warnings, they
happen all the time around here, and it is one
of those things that it's hard to know what is
the most really like what is an imminent threat versus
not well, and what is an abundance of caution that
is then going to cause you trouble in the future.
Emergency planning is like the vegetables of governance. Yes, and
(08:50):
it's not sexy work, but man, it makes a difference
when you're if you do it well and you do
it right. There is one guy who got it really
right with his team and as Petty Officer Scott Ruskin
of the Coastguard, who was the first first responder at
Camp Mystic and surrounding areas, and he had the estimates
(09:14):
are like one sixty to between one sixty and two
hundred kids who were, as he notes, having the worst
day of their lives, ran scared and cold, and it
was his job, as a new like diving rescue diver
to help them to the best of his ability. And
(09:35):
it seems that he did so with incredible courage and effectiveness.
And I'm going to just play him explaining what happened
to George Stephanopoulos. Now this clip is a little long,
but I think it's worth letting him narrate this.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, so I'll kind of give you as a quick
synopsis of what was going on. The Coastguard launched US
and decided to send crew from air Station Corpus Chirsty
at about six thirty seven am on Friday, the fourth
of July. I just happened to be on the junior
career with ian hopper Blair Wouge for Seth Reeves some
of our crew members in the Coast Guard, and yeah,
they sent us out. We kind of encountered some pretty
(10:15):
serious weather, some of the worst flying we've ever dealt with. Personally.
It took us, you know, which should have been an
hour flight, probably took us about seven or eight just
to get into the landing zone. Once man got four
different approaches trying to get in. We were able to
get out getting boots on the ground with the Air
National Guard, Department of Public Safety for Texas game Wardens,
and we decided to leave me on scene at can't
(10:36):
mist it. That was kind of our main triage site.
We were trying to help out with.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Just a note. Notice how many times in a three
minute clip he names other people to thank Yep, just
from second one.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
We decide, Hey, if we leave the rescue summer on scene,
we'll have more space in our Dolphin MH sixty five.
So based on that, I got on scene boots on
the ground it can't miss it. Kind of discovered was
the only person there as far as like first responders go. So, yeah,
I had about two hundred kids, mostly all scared, terrified, cold,
having probably the worst day of their life, and I
(11:11):
just kind of need to triage them, get them to
a higher level care and get them get them off
at a flood zone with a lot of the US
sixty Army helicopters.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Talk about how that wor you got it?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
One hundred and sixty five close two hundred kids there,
how do you get them out just one by one? Yeah, yeah, sir,
it's a great question.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So, the United States Army National Guard was landing their
sixties with Task Force one some of their rescue summers,
and they were able to land. We kind of came
up with two different landing zones. There's one off an
archery field and then one at a soccer field.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So yeah, Also, I love the details from a first responder.
This cadence of telling the story is very first responder. Yeah, sig,
let me, let let me tell you exactly what kind
of vehicles we were using and the landing zones we're
able to.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Kind of land those sixties in there. And then I
was kind of the main guy as far as like
grabbing people's like fifteen to ten kids at a time,
maybe one adult with them, and bringing them over to
those sixties and getting them to a different LZ that
was kind of safe and had more first responders than
just myself out there. Had you ever done this before? No,
this is my first one. I haven't had any cases before.
(12:14):
I've been a rescue swimmer from had a year fully
trained for about six months, so yeah, this was my
first experience. But I really just kind of relied on
the training we get. Coast Guard rescue summers get some
of the highest level training in the world, So really
just kind of relied on that and that, you know,
just knowing that any of the rescue swimmers in the
Coast Guard would have done the exact same, if not
better than me. So training, so we want to tell
(12:34):
you this was.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
The very old deal.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, yeah, this is definitely the real deal. But I
just remembered that, you know, when I got on seeing
there was you know, two hundred kids looking to someone
for some sort of comfort and safety. They don't really
know what my experience is, or my rank or my age.
They just know, hey, this guy's this guy's a professional
and need to shoot to help us, and I kind
of had to live up to that standard. But yeah,
the real heroes, I think we're too that the kids
on the ground, like those guys are heroic and you know,
(12:56):
they were dealing with some of the worst times of
their lives and they were staying strong. And that album
inspired me to kind of get in there and help
them out.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay, thank goodness for men like him. Yes, he is
twenty six. I believe he changed careers from like a
finance or an accountant guy with I believe KPMGAH to
the coast Guard and became a rescue swimmer, which is
some of the most insane training that any American military undergoes.
(13:26):
And thank goodness, he was there that day on his
first ever mission. And I just the whole spirit of that,
like the way he's recounting it, the way he's noting
everyone else who helped, Yes, the way he's being very
calm about it, just like exactly what you want. The
fact that he's twenty six gives me hope. Yeah, right,
(13:50):
Like my impression often of twenty six year olds and
there are shiny exceptions all the time, right, but one
of them is just that we need more more men
like him coming up the ranks right well, and like again,
he probably spared He spared so many families in all
(14:10):
likelihood worse stories. I think one of the one of
the things about this storm, it does seem that the
water receded fairly quickly, so in other places that were
further from the river, even though people were in danger,
they were able to get out of danger quickly, quickly
enough they could save a lot of people. No doubt
(14:32):
that the numbers will go up, which is terrible. But
I just this has been on my mind since July fourth,
even though it's very very hard to think about, and
I just wanted to end with this segment of the
show with something that was like hopeful, somebody rescued one
hundred and sixty five kids. And you know, as you said,
we're heading to this concert from this artist that we
(14:54):
both love and have both seen, and this is going
to be you know, usually his concerts are very kind
of like happy, upbeat, and he's got some he's such
a fabulous storyteller, and he has some songs that are heartbreaking,
and it's going to be I think, I think it's
going to be meaningful was the word that you used.
So we're heading into that. We'll be right back on
(15:16):
normally onto less harrowing news. The one big beautiful bill passed.
It did, and I'm not going to get into a
big breakdown on it. I will do that with Carol
when she's back with the show. Look, there's a lot
of spending in it, there's a lot of stuff in it. Yes,
(15:38):
there's some good things in it. There's some positive structural
changes in it. Most importantly, there is the extension of
the tax rates that came with the twenty seventeen tax bill.
Without the extension of those rates, we would see some
real economic carnage and the biggest tax hike on virtually
(16:00):
every American who pays taxes that we've seen in quite
some time. So that part absolutely needed to get done,
and it got done. And here's I will say this. Look,
I'm going to have my pluses and minuses for this bill. However,
they got something done before the deadline. Yeah, I'm look
(16:25):
is that it's sort of worth congratulating them over with
a tight Congress, right when you're talking about a one
or two vote swing either way, you're not ever going
to get anything everything that you want. In fact, it's
probably gonna be pretty dicey. Yeah. And so then everybody's
(16:49):
doing horse trading and everybody's doing you know, real cost
benefit analysis. But when we're talking about the economic vitality
of this country, being able to anticipate consistent tax rates, yeah, important.
It's one of the most important underpinnings of our ability
(17:11):
to just keep moving things forward, right, And that is
I would give up a lot for that. Yeah. And
like I said, that part had to get done.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And the deadline, by the way, was not until December
thirty first, right, the tax rates were not going to
expire until then, but Trump said July fourth. And Mike Johnson,
whose success is a side plot.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
That I just enjoy so much.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
He's so underestimated over and over again. He takes the
Senate version back to the House over the holiday and
it's like, now y'all are going to do this, Yeah,
and everyone's like, that's magical thinking. Mike Johnson can't do that.
But Mike Johnson can do that. Yeah. It is an
interesting side black that I did not anticipate. And yet
(18:04):
it's going to be super fascinating for how that plays out.
As we get closer and closer to midterms, right, yes, well,
and like there will be I think, aside from the
One Big Beautiful Bill name being a triumph of branding,
the actual contents of the One Big Beautiful Bill that
are good and beneficial, beneficial to people have not been
(18:27):
broadcast nearly as effectively as the things that Democrats have
said about the bill, right, So if you would like
to fight that battle, you should start now. It's true,
and they're already up with ads and all sorts of
stuff about Medicaid reform being Medicaid cuts. And Scott Bessen
can't fight this fight on his own, right, He's out
(18:47):
there on the Sunday shows doing the best he can.
But so I think that that will matter for twenty
twenty six. And also every story just gets swallowed by
other stories so quickly that how much will it make?
I mean, this is this is the question going into
any midterm ever, right, which is I was a I'm
(19:10):
I do political work, right, So I was on a call,
I was on a pulling call last week. And it's
so hard to anticipate anything gubernatorially or congressionally right now
out here in the West and elsewhere, just because there
are so many unknown unknowns. The idea that anything that
(19:32):
matters right now will be the thing that we're talking
about a year from now seems so deeply unlike, well
as illustrated. By the time that we spent on the
first segment, I nearly forgot about the One Big, Beautiful
Bill as I was putting this show together, because it
felt like so long ago when it was July fourth. Well,
you and I have discussed before, and I'm sure you've
(19:54):
discussed with Carol before, the fact that I thought there
was going to be more of a punishment of the
political class on how they handled COVID, and it mostly
didn't happen because we've turned into human etches sketches. Yeah,
And to the extent that it happened, as you note
about under us or not being able to read it,
(20:16):
it happened much later in different forms than we anticipated,
because we thought it would be a quick backlash, and
I think the backlash was trumpet. It was a lot faster.
It was a lot later than we anticipated. Speaking of backlash,
Elon and Donald are had it again. Yeah, most of
the backlash at all, shock, Most of the backlashes actually
(20:38):
just Elon. I think who look I like Elon very much.
I think i'm I think I'm fond of Elon in
a way that other people are not. Yeah, just because
I appreciate his visionary work in other sectors. I wish
his visionary work on behalf of cutting the federal government
had been as visionary as other stuff he does. Right,
(21:00):
a little bit, it got certainly got bogged down when
I wish that that that DOGE had been like, we
are going to methodically go through, yeah, every single agency
in this government. So Elon right, did not like the
way the one Big Beautiful Bill went. He has left
(21:21):
his work at DOGE. They've already had one blow up
that seemed to sort of repair a bit because on
the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary or two hundred fiftieth
birthday of the Army, Elon seemed like he was hanging around.
But now he has formed a new political party titled
the America part This is Time magazine. The former lead
of the Department of Government Efficiency had promised to do
(21:42):
just that if President Donald Trump's Big Beautiful Bill passed.
Musk has been and continues to be a vocal critic
of the policy bill, arguing that it will cause a
strategy strategic harm to America on account of the trillions
of dollars the bill is projected to add to the
does the country. I feel you, I feel you on
this Elon Trump had this to say about it. I
am saddened this untruth. I am saddened to watch Elon
(22:04):
Musco completely off the rails, essentially becoming a train wreck
all caps over the past five weeks. He even wants
to start a third political party, despite the fact that
they have never succeeded in the United States. The system
seems not designed for them. Kelly probably has thoughts on this.
The one thing third parties are good for is the
creation of complete and total disruption and chaos, and we
have enough of that. But the radical left Democrats who
(22:25):
have lost their confidence and their minds. Republicans, on the
other hand, are a smooth running machine that just masks
the biggest bill of its kind in the history of
our country. It is a great bill, but unfortunately for
Elon it eliminates the ridiculous electric vehicle mandate, which would
have forced everyone to buy an electric car and a
short period of time. I have been strongly opposed to
that from the very beginning. People are now allowed to
(22:47):
buy whatever they want, gasoline powered hybrids, which are doing
very well, parents that are pynthetical, or his writing is fantastic,
or new technologies as they come about, no more, I
mean mandate. It goes on and on Elon probably, let's see.
I also thought it inappropriate that a very close friend
of Elon who was in the space business run NASA,
(23:09):
when NASA is such a big part of Elon's corporate life.
My number one charge is to protect the American public.
So there's a couple things in there about you know,
great Elon's there's some Elon's conflicts of interest and business, which,
by the way, existed before all of these All of
these these conflicts that he points out existed previously. They
(23:31):
just weren't problematic and they until they switched sides. Also,
of note, the fact that it's easier to send people
into lower Earth orbit than to cut federal government spending
really speaks to the quagmire. There's nothing like cutting the
federal government spending just sends you back to trying to
(23:52):
solve the easy problem of getting to Mars. Like right,
the standards or the standards are easier. I don't think
this is gonna go well. So, okay, we have seen
this over and over again. You remember a few years
ago Andrew Yang started the Forward Party. I had that
(24:13):
was interesting. I always personally would enjoy being a libertarian
if they could ever try to actually get elected to
any A little note on that as well, right, Like
I just but President Trump is correct. The systems are
set up to promote the binary and the two party system.
(24:37):
And I think the only way to get away from this.
And I think about this a lot, right with restoring
standards rather than thinking about like the left versus right,
we try to think about the good faith versus bad
faith spectrum. And I'm working hard to try to get
crazy people, I'm both the left and the right to
(24:58):
step out of the political they were rewarding good face
arguments versus just theater or extremism or And I work
even with my Democrat friends on this issue, right, and
we have discussed how to get to the end goal,
which is trying to restore standards in politics. So this
(25:22):
is the thing I spend a lot of time thinking
and writing and trying to game theory out. And third
parties are a really, really hard way to go. Oftentimes,
depending on the state, there is a higher standard for
ballot access. You also have a donor class and a
donor system that is largely just comfortable with and aimed
(25:46):
toward the parties. Then you have the entire don't even
get me started about the entire soft money just behemoth
of an industry onto itself, that is, you know, you
see packs that are used to giving to Republican and Democrats, right,
and so I tend to think often that one of
(26:11):
the better ways if you're looking to really shake up
politics is to pick a party and then try to
operate within it, right, try to operate and change the
incidive structure within the party, within the party, which actually
Elon was trying to do doing the thing. Yes, yes,
and then and then he realized that the head of
the Republican Party, you know, they got into a fight
(26:35):
about it. But but at least they did it quietly,
you know, so quietly. There are some subtle dudes. Let
me tell you. When I think subtlety, I think Donald
trus Lelan. Can I note quickly before we move on
to our last topic, because Kelly and I will talk
for hours about this. I'm gonna note quickly a libertarian
(26:55):
who is succeeding. Yes, Javier Malay. If Elon must and
Donald Trump had gotten together and Javier malayd this whole country, yeah,
and federal government, I would have been so happy, because,
as you say, I would be especially economically happy to
be a libertarian if we can just hold it together.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So remember when Javier Malay was elected in Argentina, everyone
was like, this is the end of the world. Yes,
he's going to ruin everything. His austerity and deregulation will
cause chaos and like just poverty everywhere. That's what they
were still saying about him two weeks ago. Yeah. But
now it's reported that Argentina's growth in the second quarter
(27:36):
GDP growth seven point six percent year over year. He
has also brought down inflation from like twenty one percent
to one point five. Yeah, and this is an important
sentence for anyone who is living in an American city
who would like more housing. Rent has dropped by forty
(27:56):
percent in real term, and the supply of rental properties
in Buenos Aara ITTRIS has increased by over three hundred
percent as a result of Malay abolishing all forms of
rent control for those of us who heard us talk
about the mayor candidate, Yes in New York. This is
the opposite of him. Yes, and is it did the
(28:19):
thing that the liberals say they want to do, which
is bringing down the price of the rent. Right. I
don't know why I'm having their voice, but that's what
they're trying to do. The rent is too damn high.
It's too damn Hi. Maybe I was reverting to the
too damn high guy, and he always he's still my favorite.
We're going to take a short break and come right
back with normally. All right, Now, we've got one last
(28:42):
story from Carol who wrote in Fox News about just
give me a quick day something, right guy. Carol, by
the way, she's one of my favorite writers and one
of my favorite people, but definitely one of my favorite writers.
She writes, so there are so speaking of the fact
that there's so many news articles just turning and churning
and turning and things get lost. She wrote a really,
(29:05):
really great piece for Fox News about one of the
Trump cuts is millions in taxpayer funding for a group
called Springer Nature, a publisher that is a publishing group
that writes primarily about science. Right, So who is. So
I'm like already a little annoyed, but then my money
(29:25):
is going there, I assume I'm going to get more annoyed.
Oh just you wait, Mary Catherine ham let me tell you.
As Brian Flood reported at Fox News in late June,
according to our friend Carol, the German owned Springer Nature
was forced to issue wait for it, Mary Catherine, Okay,
two thousand, nine hundred twenty three retractions in twenty twenty
(29:51):
four alone. Okay, according to recent they're just doing the
opposite of their job, right, which is they're just writing things,
making it up, and then being like, JK, let's retract
that also, and we've paid twenty million for it.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
The publishing giant has also been accused of significantly downplaying
COVID lab leak theory and censoring content to appease the
Chinese government. It also has a peer reviewed process that
critics believe is dominated by woke group things. Well, well,
well isn't that fas you know, at least we could
doge that one. Okay, what is the proper role of government?
(30:32):
It is not to be funding German science publishing basically
made up stuff. If you're can you imagine we're doing
almost three thousand retractions. The folks over at CNN's CNN
are like, damn, we got rookie numbers. You have pumped
these up. Got to pump these up. Okay, let us
(30:53):
end there, because Kelly and I will go on forever.
Santure John our producer, for listening to us. Thank you
for all of you guys for listening to us. My
friend Kelly mar Ma of restoring standards where else can
they find you anywhere?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Night?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Okay? Maher on x Twitter and restoring standards dot com
and restoring standard pac love it yep. Thanks for being
with us. That ur L for car again was TinyURL
dot com slash car flood Relief k e r R
flood Relief. Thanks for joining us on normally normally our
Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get
(31:26):
your podcasts. Get in touch with us at normally theepod
at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening and when things
get weird at normally
Hey guys, we are back on normally the show with
normalist takes for when the news gets weird. And when
I say we, I do not mean Carol Markowitz. Today,
the lovely Carol Markowitz is healing her voice, which she
has lost a bit of and so we're gonna let
her rest up. And I am in Colorado. Was my
friend Kelly Maher him, Mary Catherine, Thanks very ny. I
should probably give you a plug, Kelly Maher of restoring standards. Yes,
(00:25):
in the state of Colorado. She is an operative out here.
She's my very good friend. She's also just very entertaining
and grows a great garden which I've been visiting on
her patio. It's true. Welcome, Kelly, Thank you so much
for having me, Mary Catherine. But of course I'm traveling
out here. Yes. See one of our favorite artists, yea
which is relevant to the news today, Robert O'Keane. Yes,
(00:49):
he's a Texas honkitant guy. Oh, he's one of our
favorite We love him, cowboy poet. We've seen him now
live several times. We've seen him in Virginia. Yes, we've
seen him here in Colorado, and we have on the
list before he retires for the second time to go
to Texas at some point and see him together. Yes,
(01:12):
we will work on that. We also he was our
last concert before the pandemic. It won December twenty nineteen,
and he was our only concert during the pandemic because
as a good Texan he was still touring and doing concerts.
We Rebels went out in Northern Virginia where the Rebel
Concert Venue was holding an actual concert, and we went
(01:34):
there and drank beers with other people and had a
singer sing in front of us, and it was fantastic.
It's glad. Robert oak Is Keen is fantastic, and he
is relevant to the news right now because he is
from Kerrville, Texas. Yes, so when we see him on
the day of this podcast, it will not be quite
as celebratory a tone for this concert as it would
(01:54):
otherwise be because it is his hometown has been struck
by a tremendous tragedy. Original fourth. At this point, the
death toll is more than eighty for extreme flooding from
the Guadalupe River. Yeah, including some sixty plus adults and
twenty plus children. And it's a it's almost too sad
(02:15):
to even think about There was an all girls Christian
camp on the banks of the river and Mystic Camp.
Mystic that Robert Okane, as he notes in his video,
raising money for the town. He sent his daughters there,
So it will it will no doubt be sort of
a raw performance and tribute to some extent tomorrow. And
(02:37):
he's he's also been raising a ton of money. I
want to mention the fund which is at TinyURL dot
com slash curve flood Relief ker r flood Relief. My
co host Carol was on this very early on and
was generously matching donations, and so I planned to throw
(02:57):
my money at it as well to the first responders
on the ground taking care of this incredibly tragic situation. Yeah,
it's a real heartbreaker, especially when you have kids. Yeah,
you know, it's just and we're both moms, as is Carol,
and it's just it gets you. It's, like I said,
it's hard to even think about. There are, of course,
(03:19):
stories of heroism, tragic stories of heroism. The director of
the camp was reportedly in the process of trying to
evacuate some of the girls when he lost his life.
It's a family owned camp has been in the family
for generations he had run it since the seventies. The
river rose twenty six feet in under an hour, which
(03:43):
is they have suffered floods there before. It's Central Texas. Yeah,
the ground is dry. It doesn't suck up water when
water comes over the edge, which is part of the
reason it gets so dangerous. In nineteen eighty seven, some
floods struck the same area, struck the camps in that area.
But from what I've read about this, some of it
(04:03):
was just the cabins had held in the past. They
had never seen this type of flooding, this to quite
this degree, to this many fatalities. Certainly, there are, of
course people turning it political as quickly as they can.
(04:23):
I think the worst tweet was like Ron Filipowski, who's
an editor over It might As Touched, which is a
partisan lefty news outlet, who was just like, they voted
for this governance and they get what they deserve. It's like, sir,
they're seven to eight year old children. Yeah, it's unbelievable.
You know, this is I think baseball Crank at National
(04:45):
Review made this point, this is it is unfortunate that
it was the Katrina Playbook, which was successful in really
taking George W. Bush down several notches by filling a
knowledge vacuum with information that often wasn't true. And it's
not that there weren't mistakes. Of course, there are mistakes
in a disaster, but to turn it into a partisan
(05:10):
news event, I think was new in two thousand and five,
and they've just been recycling. No, it's just a standard now.
You will notice they don't recycle it in North Carolina
with western North Carolina floods because there was democratic governor
and Biden with president, So if they don't have the
right person to blame, they won't do that. But in
this case they're doing it somewhat somewhat enthusiastically. And I
(05:32):
just want to note for information's sake, you know CNN's
noting now National Weather Service cuts and NAA cuts. In
the National Weather Service itself says, actually we had extra
staff in the office that night. Other mainstream media folks
(05:53):
have said, oh, there aren't enough alerts, whereas the Austin
meteorologist who is on the case and local says they
do their job and did it well. That's the quote.
There were various warnings at various times of the night,
starting at like twelve forty one am. But most of
this happened when people were sleeping, making it sort of
(06:13):
a worst case scenario of a very risky place, a
very risky time of night, an incredibly strong flood in
a vulnerable place, in a vulnerable place. And also, you
know you do that cost benefit analysis, right, which is like,
what does taking a bunch of little girls out in
(06:36):
the middle of the night in their pgs running them
up a hill? Yes, yes, we have experienced something like
this before and these cabins of hell, right, And I
mean here in Colorado we will regularly get tornado warnings
and it's like do you take your kids downstairs? Do
you know? It's not always clear in the moment. It
(06:59):
becomes a lot clear in retrospect, like oh, if they
would have done this then that, But in the moment
it's not always clear what is the safest or best
thing to do? Yeah, And again, I this is the
thing about all these turning everything political. LA residents do
not deserve wildfires, right right. I don't think that they
(07:23):
are being punished for anything. What I do think is
that local governments in Florida is the greatest example of this,
and the federal government to the extent it can should
have things in place to the greatest degree to help
as quickly as possible when or something like this happens.
To that point, the Texas Air National Guard has been
rescuing folks and has rescued some like three hundred and
(07:44):
eighty five people amazing with their helicopters in very dangerous conditions.
And again I want to say that that url is
TinyURL dot com slash car flood Relief, ker flood Relief.
There's also the Cajun Navy and all these guys who
are always helpful in these situations who you can help
(08:06):
out as well. But I want to play the interview
that oh, I wanted to know one more thing from
a local expert who noted one of the takeaways maybe
that there are too many flash flood warnings in areas
like this that dilute the power of a flash flood warning.
(08:27):
That what I just said about the tornado warnings, they
happen all the time around here, and it is one
of those things that it's hard to know what is
the most really like what is an imminent threat versus
not well, and what is an abundance of caution that
is then going to cause you trouble in the future.
Emergency planning is like the vegetables of governance. Yes, and
(08:50):
it's not sexy work, but man, it makes a difference
when you're if you do it well and you do
it right. There is one guy who got it really
right with his team and as Petty Officer Scott Ruskin
of the Coastguard, who was the first first responder at
Camp Mystic and surrounding areas, and he had the estimates
(09:14):
are like one sixty to between one sixty and two
hundred kids who were, as he notes, having the worst
day of their lives, ran scared and cold, and it
was his job, as a new like diving rescue diver
to help them to the best of his ability. And
(09:35):
it seems that he did so with incredible courage and effectiveness.
And I'm going to just play him explaining what happened
to George Stephanopoulos. Now this clip is a little long,
but I think it's worth letting him narrate this.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, so I'll kind of give you as a quick
synopsis of what was going on. The Coastguard launched US
and decided to send crew from air Station Corpus Chirsty
at about six thirty seven am on Friday, the fourth
of July. I just happened to be on the junior
career with ian hopper Blair Wouge for Seth Reeves some
of our crew members in the Coast Guard, and yeah,
they sent us out. We kind of encountered some pretty
(10:15):
serious weather, some of the worst flying we've ever dealt with. Personally.
It took us, you know, which should have been an
hour flight, probably took us about seven or eight just
to get into the landing zone. Once man got four
different approaches trying to get in. We were able to
get out getting boots on the ground with the Air
National Guard, Department of Public Safety for Texas game Wardens,
and we decided to leave me on scene at can't
(10:36):
mist it. That was kind of our main triage site.
We were trying to help out with.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Just a note. Notice how many times in a three
minute clip he names other people to thank Yep, just
from second one.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
We decide, Hey, if we leave the rescue summer on scene,
we'll have more space in our Dolphin MH sixty five.
So based on that, I got on scene boots on
the ground it can't miss it. Kind of discovered was
the only person there as far as like first responders go. So, yeah,
I had about two hundred kids, mostly all scared, terrified, cold,
having probably the worst day of their life, and I
(11:11):
just kind of need to triage them, get them to
a higher level care and get them get them off
at a flood zone with a lot of the US
sixty Army helicopters.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Talk about how that wor you got it?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
One hundred and sixty five close two hundred kids there,
how do you get them out just one by one? Yeah, yeah, sir,
it's a great question.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So, the United States Army National Guard was landing their
sixties with Task Force one some of their rescue summers,
and they were able to land. We kind of came
up with two different landing zones. There's one off an
archery field and then one at a soccer field.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So yeah, Also, I love the details from a first responder.
This cadence of telling the story is very first responder. Yeah, sig,
let me, let let me tell you exactly what kind
of vehicles we were using and the landing zones we're
able to.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Kind of land those sixties in there. And then I
was kind of the main guy as far as like
grabbing people's like fifteen to ten kids at a time,
maybe one adult with them, and bringing them over to
those sixties and getting them to a different LZ that
was kind of safe and had more first responders than
just myself out there. Had you ever done this before? No,
this is my first one. I haven't had any cases before.
(12:14):
I've been a rescue swimmer from had a year fully
trained for about six months, so yeah, this was my
first experience. But I really just kind of relied on
the training we get. Coast Guard rescue summers get some
of the highest level training in the world, So really
just kind of relied on that and that, you know,
just knowing that any of the rescue swimmers in the
Coast Guard would have done the exact same, if not
better than me. So training, so we want to tell
(12:34):
you this was.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
The very old deal.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, yeah, this is definitely the real deal. But I
just remembered that, you know, when I got on seeing
there was you know, two hundred kids looking to someone
for some sort of comfort and safety. They don't really
know what my experience is, or my rank or my age.
They just know, hey, this guy's this guy's a professional
and need to shoot to help us, and I kind
of had to live up to that standard. But yeah,
the real heroes, I think we're too that the kids
on the ground, like those guys are heroic and you know,
(12:56):
they were dealing with some of the worst times of
their lives and they were staying strong. And that album
inspired me to kind of get in there and help
them out.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay, thank goodness for men like him. Yes, he is
twenty six. I believe he changed careers from like a
finance or an accountant guy with I believe KPMGAH to
the coast Guard and became a rescue swimmer, which is
some of the most insane training that any American military undergoes.
(13:26):
And thank goodness, he was there that day on his
first ever mission. And I just the whole spirit of that,
like the way he's recounting it, the way he's noting
everyone else who helped, Yes, the way he's being very
calm about it, just like exactly what you want. The
fact that he's twenty six gives me hope. Yeah, right,
(13:50):
Like my impression often of twenty six year olds and
there are shiny exceptions all the time, right, but one
of them is just that we need more more men
like him coming up the ranks right well, and like again,
he probably spared He spared so many families in all
(14:10):
likelihood worse stories. I think one of the one of
the things about this storm, it does seem that the
water receded fairly quickly, so in other places that were
further from the river, even though people were in danger,
they were able to get out of danger quickly, quickly
enough they could save a lot of people. No doubt
(14:32):
that the numbers will go up, which is terrible. But
I just this has been on my mind since July fourth,
even though it's very very hard to think about, and
I just wanted to end with this segment of the
show with something that was like hopeful, somebody rescued one
hundred and sixty five kids. And you know, as you said,
we're heading to this concert from this artist that we
(14:54):
both love and have both seen, and this is going
to be you know, usually his concerts are very kind
of like happy, upbeat, and he's got some he's such
a fabulous storyteller, and he has some songs that are heartbreaking,
and it's going to be I think, I think it's
going to be meaningful was the word that you used.
So we're heading into that. We'll be right back on
(15:16):
normally onto less harrowing news. The one big beautiful bill passed.
It did, and I'm not going to get into a
big breakdown on it. I will do that with Carol
when she's back with the show. Look, there's a lot
of spending in it, there's a lot of stuff in it. Yes,
(15:38):
there's some good things in it. There's some positive structural
changes in it. Most importantly, there is the extension of
the tax rates that came with the twenty seventeen tax bill.
Without the extension of those rates, we would see some
real economic carnage and the biggest tax hike on virtually
(16:00):
every American who pays taxes that we've seen in quite
some time. So that part absolutely needed to get done,
and it got done. And here's I will say this. Look,
I'm going to have my pluses and minuses for this bill. However,
they got something done before the deadline. Yeah, I'm look
(16:25):
is that it's sort of worth congratulating them over with
a tight Congress, right when you're talking about a one
or two vote swing either way, you're not ever going
to get anything everything that you want. In fact, it's
probably gonna be pretty dicey. Yeah. And so then everybody's
(16:49):
doing horse trading and everybody's doing you know, real cost
benefit analysis. But when we're talking about the economic vitality
of this country, being able to anticipate consistent tax rates, yeah, important.
It's one of the most important underpinnings of our ability
(17:11):
to just keep moving things forward, right, And that is
I would give up a lot for that. Yeah. And
like I said, that part had to get done.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And the deadline, by the way, was not until December
thirty first, right, the tax rates were not going to
expire until then, but Trump said July fourth. And Mike Johnson,
whose success is a side plot.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
That I just enjoy so much.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
He's so underestimated over and over again. He takes the
Senate version back to the House over the holiday and
it's like, now y'all are going to do this, Yeah,
and everyone's like, that's magical thinking. Mike Johnson can't do that.
But Mike Johnson can do that. Yeah. It is an
interesting side black that I did not anticipate. And yet
(18:04):
it's going to be super fascinating for how that plays out.
As we get closer and closer to midterms, right, yes, well,
and like there will be I think, aside from the
One Big Beautiful Bill name being a triumph of branding,
the actual contents of the One Big Beautiful Bill that
are good and beneficial, beneficial to people have not been
(18:27):
broadcast nearly as effectively as the things that Democrats have
said about the bill, right, So if you would like
to fight that battle, you should start now. It's true,
and they're already up with ads and all sorts of
stuff about Medicaid reform being Medicaid cuts. And Scott Bessen
can't fight this fight on his own, right, He's out
(18:47):
there on the Sunday shows doing the best he can.
But so I think that that will matter for twenty
twenty six. And also every story just gets swallowed by
other stories so quickly that how much will it make?
I mean, this is this is the question going into
any midterm ever, right, which is I was a I'm
(19:10):
I do political work, right, So I was on a call,
I was on a pulling call last week. And it's
so hard to anticipate anything gubernatorially or congressionally right now
out here in the West and elsewhere, just because there
are so many unknown unknowns. The idea that anything that
(19:32):
matters right now will be the thing that we're talking
about a year from now seems so deeply unlike, well
as illustrated. By the time that we spent on the
first segment, I nearly forgot about the One Big, Beautiful
Bill as I was putting this show together, because it
felt like so long ago when it was July fourth. Well,
you and I have discussed before, and I'm sure you've
(19:54):
discussed with Carol before, the fact that I thought there
was going to be more of a punishment of the
political class on how they handled COVID, and it mostly
didn't happen because we've turned into human etches sketches. Yeah,
And to the extent that it happened, as you note
about under us or not being able to read it,
(20:16):
it happened much later in different forms than we anticipated,
because we thought it would be a quick backlash, and
I think the backlash was trumpet. It was a lot faster.
It was a lot later than we anticipated. Speaking of backlash,
Elon and Donald are had it again. Yeah, most of
the backlash at all, shock, Most of the backlashes actually
(20:38):
just Elon. I think who look I like Elon very much.
I think i'm I think I'm fond of Elon in
a way that other people are not. Yeah, just because
I appreciate his visionary work in other sectors. I wish
his visionary work on behalf of cutting the federal government
had been as visionary as other stuff he does. Right,
(21:00):
a little bit, it got certainly got bogged down when
I wish that that that DOGE had been like, we
are going to methodically go through, yeah, every single agency
in this government. So Elon right, did not like the
way the one Big Beautiful Bill went. He has left
(21:21):
his work at DOGE. They've already had one blow up
that seemed to sort of repair a bit because on
the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary or two hundred fiftieth
birthday of the Army, Elon seemed like he was hanging around.
But now he has formed a new political party titled
the America part This is Time magazine. The former lead
of the Department of Government Efficiency had promised to do
(21:42):
just that if President Donald Trump's Big Beautiful Bill passed.
Musk has been and continues to be a vocal critic
of the policy bill, arguing that it will cause a
strategy strategic harm to America on account of the trillions
of dollars the bill is projected to add to the
does the country. I feel you, I feel you on
this Elon Trump had this to say about it. I
am saddened this untruth. I am saddened to watch Elon
(22:04):
Musco completely off the rails, essentially becoming a train wreck
all caps over the past five weeks. He even wants
to start a third political party, despite the fact that
they have never succeeded in the United States. The system
seems not designed for them. Kelly probably has thoughts on this.
The one thing third parties are good for is the
creation of complete and total disruption and chaos, and we
have enough of that. But the radical left Democrats who
(22:25):
have lost their confidence and their minds. Republicans, on the
other hand, are a smooth running machine that just masks
the biggest bill of its kind in the history of
our country. It is a great bill, but unfortunately for
Elon it eliminates the ridiculous electric vehicle mandate, which would
have forced everyone to buy an electric car and a
short period of time. I have been strongly opposed to
that from the very beginning. People are now allowed to
(22:47):
buy whatever they want, gasoline powered hybrids, which are doing
very well, parents that are pynthetical, or his writing is fantastic,
or new technologies as they come about, no more, I
mean mandate. It goes on and on Elon probably, let's see.
I also thought it inappropriate that a very close friend
of Elon who was in the space business run NASA,
(23:09):
when NASA is such a big part of Elon's corporate life.
My number one charge is to protect the American public.
So there's a couple things in there about you know,
great Elon's there's some Elon's conflicts of interest and business, which,
by the way, existed before all of these All of
these these conflicts that he points out existed previously. They
(23:31):
just weren't problematic and they until they switched sides. Also,
of note, the fact that it's easier to send people
into lower Earth orbit than to cut federal government spending
really speaks to the quagmire. There's nothing like cutting the
federal government spending just sends you back to trying to
(23:52):
solve the easy problem of getting to Mars. Like right,
the standards or the standards are easier. I don't think
this is gonna go well. So, okay, we have seen
this over and over again. You remember a few years
ago Andrew Yang started the Forward Party. I had that
(24:13):
was interesting. I always personally would enjoy being a libertarian
if they could ever try to actually get elected to
any A little note on that as well, right, Like
I just but President Trump is correct. The systems are
set up to promote the binary and the two party system.
(24:37):
And I think the only way to get away from this.
And I think about this a lot, right with restoring
standards rather than thinking about like the left versus right,
we try to think about the good faith versus bad
faith spectrum. And I'm working hard to try to get
crazy people, I'm both the left and the right to
(24:58):
step out of the political they were rewarding good face
arguments versus just theater or extremism or And I work
even with my Democrat friends on this issue, right, and
we have discussed how to get to the end goal,
which is trying to restore standards in politics. So this
(25:22):
is the thing I spend a lot of time thinking
and writing and trying to game theory out. And third
parties are a really, really hard way to go. Oftentimes,
depending on the state, there is a higher standard for
ballot access. You also have a donor class and a
donor system that is largely just comfortable with and aimed
(25:46):
toward the parties. Then you have the entire don't even
get me started about the entire soft money just behemoth
of an industry onto itself, that is, you know, you
see packs that are used to giving to Republican and Democrats, right,
and so I tend to think often that one of
(26:11):
the better ways if you're looking to really shake up
politics is to pick a party and then try to
operate within it, right, try to operate and change the
incidive structure within the party, within the party, which actually
Elon was trying to do doing the thing. Yes, yes,
and then and then he realized that the head of
the Republican Party, you know, they got into a fight
(26:35):
about it. But but at least they did it quietly,
you know, so quietly. There are some subtle dudes. Let
me tell you. When I think subtlety, I think Donald
trus Lelan. Can I note quickly before we move on
to our last topic, because Kelly and I will talk
for hours about this. I'm gonna note quickly a libertarian
(26:55):
who is succeeding. Yes, Javier Malay. If Elon must and
Donald Trump had gotten together and Javier malayd this whole country, yeah,
and federal government, I would have been so happy, because,
as you say, I would be especially economically happy to
be a libertarian if we can just hold it together.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So remember when Javier Malay was elected in Argentina, everyone
was like, this is the end of the world. Yes,
he's going to ruin everything. His austerity and deregulation will
cause chaos and like just poverty everywhere. That's what they
were still saying about him two weeks ago. Yeah. But
now it's reported that Argentina's growth in the second quarter
(27:36):
GDP growth seven point six percent year over year. He
has also brought down inflation from like twenty one percent
to one point five. Yeah, and this is an important
sentence for anyone who is living in an American city
who would like more housing. Rent has dropped by forty
(27:56):
percent in real term, and the supply of rental properties
in Buenos Aara ITTRIS has increased by over three hundred
percent as a result of Malay abolishing all forms of
rent control for those of us who heard us talk
about the mayor candidate, Yes in New York. This is
the opposite of him. Yes, and is it did the
(28:19):
thing that the liberals say they want to do, which
is bringing down the price of the rent. Right. I
don't know why I'm having their voice, but that's what
they're trying to do. The rent is too damn high.
It's too damn Hi. Maybe I was reverting to the
too damn high guy, and he always he's still my favorite.
We're going to take a short break and come right
back with normally. All right, Now, we've got one last
(28:42):
story from Carol who wrote in Fox News about just
give me a quick day something, right guy. Carol, by
the way, she's one of my favorite writers and one
of my favorite people, but definitely one of my favorite writers.
She writes, so there are so speaking of the fact
that there's so many news articles just turning and churning
and turning and things get lost. She wrote a really,
(29:05):
really great piece for Fox News about one of the
Trump cuts is millions in taxpayer funding for a group
called Springer Nature, a publisher that is a publishing group
that writes primarily about science. Right, So who is. So
I'm like already a little annoyed, but then my money
(29:25):
is going there, I assume I'm going to get more annoyed.
Oh just you wait, Mary Catherine ham let me tell you.
As Brian Flood reported at Fox News in late June,
according to our friend Carol, the German owned Springer Nature
was forced to issue wait for it, Mary Catherine, Okay,
two thousand, nine hundred twenty three retractions in twenty twenty
(29:51):
four alone. Okay, according to recent they're just doing the
opposite of their job, right, which is they're just writing things,
making it up, and then being like, JK, let's retract
that also, and we've paid twenty million for it.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
The publishing giant has also been accused of significantly downplaying
COVID lab leak theory and censoring content to appease the
Chinese government. It also has a peer reviewed process that
critics believe is dominated by woke group things. Well, well,
well isn't that fas you know, at least we could
doge that one. Okay, what is the proper role of government?
(30:32):
It is not to be funding German science publishing basically
made up stuff. If you're can you imagine we're doing
almost three thousand retractions. The folks over at CNN's CNN
are like, damn, we got rookie numbers. You have pumped
these up. Got to pump these up. Okay, let us
(30:53):
end there, because Kelly and I will go on forever.
Santure John our producer, for listening to us. Thank you
for all of you guys for listening to us. My
friend Kelly mar Ma of restoring standards where else can
they find you anywhere?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Night?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Okay? Maher on x Twitter and restoring standards dot com
and restoring standard pac love it yep. Thanks for being
with us. That ur L for car again was TinyURL
dot com slash car flood Relief k e r R
flood Relief. Thanks for joining us on normally normally our
Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get
(31:26):
your podcasts. Get in touch with us at normally theepod
at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening and when things
get weird at normally
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