August 18, 2025 • 60 mins
WWI with Drones
A breakdown of the Anchorage Summit in Alaska on Friday and the unprecedented gathering of European leaders at the White House today alongside Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Clay and Buck explore the core question dominating global headlines: can there be a negotiated settlement or ceasefire? They argue that Russia’s primary objective remains territorial control, while Ukraine seeks ironclad security guarantees. The discussion draws historical parallels to the Korean Peninsula, suggesting that a demilitarized zone could be the most realistic path to peace, though such an arrangement presents enormous challenges.
Clay and Buck emphasize the complexity of providing Ukraine with credible security assurances without triggering NATO-style obligations, which remain a red line for Vladimir Putin. They question the effectiveness of sanctions, citing historical failures in Iraq and Libya, and stress that sanctions alone cannot end the war. The conversation shifts to the brutal reality on the ground, describing World War I-style trench warfare updated with modern technology, including drones and fortified defensive lines. Casualty rates are staggering, and the conflict has become a war of attrition, with Russia willing to absorb heavy losses to achieve its goals.
Trump and Zelensky
Zelensky signals readiness for a trilateral meeting with Trump and Putin, raising hopes for a diplomatic breakthrough. Trump emphasizes his commitment to ending the war “good for everybody,” while reiterating that U.S. support will come through arms sales, not giveaways. He also criticizes the Biden administration’s handling of the conflict, claiming the war would never have occurred under his leadership. Later, the discussion briefly touches on Trump’s renewed push for election integrity, including his call to eliminate mail-in ballots and electronic voting machines in favor of secure paper ballots.
American Troops to Ukraine?
President Donald Trump met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky amid a historic summit involving top European leaders and NATO officials. This hour focuses on the high-stakes negotiations to end the Russia-Ukraine war, with Trump positioning himself as a mediator and signaling the possibility of a trilateral meeting with Vladimir Putin.
Key highlights include Trump’s insistence on a long-term peace agreement, not just a short-term ceasefire, and his refusal to rule out U.S. troop involvement in Ukraine as part of potential security guarantees. The discussion explores the complexities of structuring a durable peace deal, comparing possible arrangements to the Korean DMZ model, with Ukrainian forces on the front line, European peacekeepers in secondary positions, and U.S. forces in a tertiary role safeguarding American economic interests.
Trust but Verify
Former Reagan-era defense official Frank Gaffney Jr. joins the conversation, offering insights on why security guarantees for Ukraine are critical yet challenging, the likelihood of Putin’s compliance, and the strategic necessity of holding China accountable. The hour also touches on historical parallels, the future of NATO, and the long-term implications for global security.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Clay.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Have you heard of the Rio Reset?
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Sounds like a trendy new workout, Buck, it.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Does, but it's actually a big summit going on in Brazil.
The formal name is BRICKS, which stands for Brazil, Russia, India,
China and South Africa. But they've just added five new members.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Smart move to stick with Bricks. We know what happens
when acronyms don't end. They confuse everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, that's an understatement. Bricks is a group of emerging
economies hoping to increase their sway in the global financial order.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Now that sounds like the plot line of a movie.
I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Philip Patrick is our Bruce Wayne. He's a precious metal
specialist and a spokesman for the Birch Gold Group. He's
on the ground in Rio getting the whole low down
on what's going on there.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Can he give us some inside intel?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Absolutely, he's been there since day one. In fact, a
major theme at the summit is how Bricks Nations aim
to reduce reliance on the US dollar in global trade.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yikes, that doesn't sound good. We got to get Philip
on the line.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Stat already did and he left the Clay and Buck
audience this message.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
The world is moving on from the dollar quietly but steadily.
These nations are making real progress towards reshaping global trade,
and the US dollar is no longer the centerpiece. That
shift doesn't happen overnight. That make no mistake, It's already begun.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thank you, Philip. Protect the value of your savings account
your four oh one k r ira, all of them,
by purchasing gold and placing it into those accounts and
reducing your exposure to a declining dollar value. Text my
name Buck to ninety eight ninety eight ninety eight you
get the free information you'll need to make the right decision.
You can rely on Birch Gold Group as I do
to give you the information you need to make an
(01:38):
informed decision. One more time, Text my name Buck to
ninety eight ninety eight ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Welcome in Monday edition, Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We
hope all of you had fabulous weekends, and boy, we
are jumping right into the deep end of the pool
with a major news day underway. We will discuss the
outcome of the Anchorage Summit, but already it is being
(02:04):
replaced by Zelenski on his way to the White House
along with many of the top leaders from throughout Europe.
This will be one of the largest collections of leaders
to ever visit the White House at one point in time.
Here is the list, European Commissioned President Ursula Vonderline. Well,
(02:26):
that's not a good one to start with. I have
no idea how to pronounce that last name, Man wonder Layan,
Is that right? Italian Prime Minister Georgia. Well, anyway, Italy, France, Britain,
Germany and Finland, along with the Secretary General of NATO
all going to be participating in this huge meeting. And Buck,
(02:49):
let's just dive right into it, because I think this
is the essence of the question. It seems to me,
and you sign off for you take issue with Mayan
out here, it seems to me that we now have
a sense for what both sides want, and the question
is can there be some sort of negotiated settlement slash ceasefire?
(03:12):
And I've got an idea of how this ends, but
I want to see if you sign on or if
you think it goes a different direction. The thing that
is Reel, the thing that Israel, the thing that Russia
wants the most is the province of Danesk or Danosk
or however you pronounce it. And it seems quite clear
that that is their primary aim here, and they have
(03:35):
about eighty percent of it so far and they want
one hundred percent of it.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Right now.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Ukraine is saying we will not give up any land.
I understand that argument. I think that is past. There
is no world in which Ukraine does not have to
give up land. The question is how much. What Ukraine
most wants is some form of security guarantee. And it
seems to me that there is a resolution of this
(04:04):
conflict that would potentially look something like what happened with
North and South Korea. I don't know that you have
a demilitarized zone necessarily, but we still have a ton
of troops in South Korea. Technically that war has never
really ended, but we provided security guarantees and as a result,
(04:24):
there is a sort of a tenuous piece that is
now extended for multiple generations. That feels to me like
the most likely outcome here. Ukraine gets some form of
security guarantee, Russia gets more of the Ukrainian land, and
we have a tenuous peace that is put in place
with the security guarantee in some way trying to act
(04:47):
as a major point of dissuading Russia from ever invading
more pork parts of Ukraine going forward. Do you sign
off on that idea, that framework in general. If not,
what do you think needs to be added to the equation?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yes, we now know after the meeting with Trump and Putin,
which I saw, of course, a lot of people in
the media who are anti Trump were rushing to say, see,
they don't have a deal. There wasn't going to be
a deal because Ukraine's not there. It's about laying the
groundwork for a deal. This is the biggest, nastiest, most
horrible conflict military conflict in the world right now. It
(05:26):
is not something that you can just snap your fingers
and it goes away. Trump is trying to bring this
to a conclusion. If he does so, it will be
the most successful act of diplomacy from an American president
in I don't know, Clay, since Reagan bringing down the
Berlin Wall and ending the Cold War. I mean, really,
you have to go back quite nothing. Clinton did, nothing,
(05:49):
Bush did, certainly nothing Obama did, and Biden wasn't even
really president as we know. So this is high stakes,
the highest stakes, and yes, you're right, this is really
what it comes down to. You have the Ukrainians who
don't want to seed even more territories than the Russians
currently have. And that's what the Russian demand is right
(06:09):
now is we want everything we've got and then some
to stop this war. That's what's come out of this
sit down with Trump and Putin. The Ukrainian demand is, look,
before we can even say we'll give you anything, we
need to know that this is really it. You know.
It's a little bit like if you're being blackmailed, what's
the big question for somebody? And this is a form
of blackmail in a sense, this evasion, right, the big
(06:31):
question is, Okay, if I give you a bag of money,
is this the last bag of money or are you
going to show up every six months demanding more. Is
Russia going to just think this is a pause and
then they can take more of Ukraine. That's where the
security guarantees come in now, Clay, the challenge on the
security guarantee front is that starts to sound a lot
(06:52):
like NATO Article five to people, which is a huge
red line for Putin and has been all along. And
I think for a lot of Americans too, would be
hold on a second. So now if Russia does decide
to go more, we are going to you know, send
in troops or we are going to be military. Now
I'm sure what's happening is it's going to be European partners,
(07:14):
you know, financial and economic sanctions arrayed. The problem though,
is that that's not enough. And this is something that
we've all seen over and over again. Sanctions are a tool.
They are not an answer. They were not an answer
in a rock with Saddam Hussein. They were not an
answer with well, the Kadafi thing, there's a whole bunch
of stuff we could say about that. But sanctions alone
(07:36):
because he was actually going in our direction when we
decided to topple when you know, the Clinton, the Obama
Clinton apparatus decided to topple him. But sanctions alone don't
just end things for you. So Clay, this is where
this is where the detailed negotiations really matter. You know,
what is a security guarante? What security guarantee for Ukraine
is sufficient other than we will put US troops in
(08:00):
harm's way or US troops will be the cavalry if
after this deal Russia decides to restart hostilities. I don't
see us doing that. I don't think we should do that.
And so then is what's a realistic security guarantee for
a country that the UK, Russia, and America all promised
when it gave up its nukes big mistake, we will
(08:22):
guarantee your security forty years ago or whatever it was.
So this is tough stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I'm sympathetic for Ukraine because, as you hit on, it's
not that they're concerned about necessarily how this conflict resolves.
It's that the last decade plus of Russian behavior has
shown them that they never stop. They always want another
bite at the apple. And I believe ukraine position is
(08:49):
we have a very strong defensive works and if we
give up this particular part of our country, that is
going to gum up the apparatus to allow us to
have a strong defensive line going forward. To say nothing
of the fact that Ukraine believes this is their line,
that it's it's their territory and they don't want to
give it up. So I just think that this has
(09:11):
turned into this has turned into to really understand, and
I've been over the weekend. I was kind of going
through as much of the more detailed analysis of this
as I could, Clay.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
This is.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
World War one trench warfare with drones and satellite communications.
That's where we are. So you have a very detailed
I mean, the Wall Street Journal had this layout of
the fortifications. They have a six layer fortification barrier, and
everyone's saying, you know, kind of like a magine No line,
(09:46):
which of course does not Historically the French magin No
line did not work out well. But this one is
being specifically built to be anti tank as well in nature.
So the way the journal laid it out, they've got
barbed wire and metal coil that are low viz, low
visibility to intentionally entrap it ensnare Russian not just armor,
(10:07):
but the Russians have been using motorbikes to try to
just break through small areas in the lines. Then it's
an anti tank ditch. Then it is anti vehicle barriers
they call dragon's teeth, these cement pyramids that they're putting down.
All of you who are GWAT veterans, remember the Hesco barriers,
Jersey barriers, Hesco bear huge thing was these cement, big
(10:29):
cement blocks essentially to stop vehicle born improvise explosive devices.
Then there's a second anti tank ditch clay, and then
a third anti tank ditch with mines, and then a
six layer of additional barbed wire and metal coil. So
this is very reminiscent of the trenches in the First
World War. It's just higher technology and they have to
(10:52):
be very cognizant of these drones, these anti personnel drones
that can that are coming down at you from the sky, right,
So it's almost like artillery rounds, but they're smart rounds
in that someone is using a camera to find you
and get you. And it is brutal warfare. A lot
of people are being caught up in the coils and
(11:12):
the wire, and then they wait and they are drone
circling overhead, and the drone comes in and blows them up.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Trump said, And I don't know how accurate this is,
because sometimes casualties get conflated with deaths. Trump said, twenty
thousand Russian troops died in July. Again, that is the
most recent number that I've heard publicly out there. Now,
maybe it's twenty thousand casualties, because again, sometimes those numbers
get used in fluctuating ways. I think it's clear that
(11:41):
hundreds of thousands of people have been severely injured and
or killed on both sides of this of this fight
so far, and so really I do think the benefit
of the meeting in Russia is sorry with Russia in
Anchorage is we now know I think somewhat what Putin wants,
(12:06):
and a lot of people are focused on, well, we
didn't get an immediate ceasefire, and I understand that that
would be better in theory, but really the goal is peace.
It's not a ceasefire, and so Ukraine's going to have
to give up land and there's going to have to
be some sort of security guarantee that is put in place.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I think the big the asterisk though play is we
know what Putin wants now, and I think that's where
there's a big stumbling block here for Ukraine. That's what
gets in the security guarantees. If they could be certain
that the territory that Russia already has maybe plus a
little bit, would be the end of this. That's one
thing I think they feel that this war has been
(12:44):
going on not just since the major invasion, but before that,
the Russian Meskarovka, the Deception War, the oh, there's some
separatists who are all just Russians being ordered out of Moscow,
that it would be a ceasefire and then give it
some time, and then the Russians breakthrough again, right because
why not? And so I think that's where this becomes
(13:06):
really hard. You have to be damn sure on the
Ukrainian side, and Zelenski does that, whatever the concessions are,
it'll be it'll be like North and South Korea, where
you're not just gonna punch through that line and do
whatever you want afterwards. And that's been going on for
a long.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Time, which is why I think maybe a solution yere
is some form of demilitarized zone. I know it's more
complicated because no one lives in the demilitarized zone and
this would theoretically be places where people have been living,
But that seems to me the best way to potentially
solve this.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's basically what they're building. I mean, when you're talking
about the expansive it's hundreds of miles of these fortifications
play Really it's World War One reducts in that sense.
I mean, this is not it's not a few places
where they're dug in, they're dug in along an entire
front of hundreds of miles. So yeah, it's it's crazy.
It's crazy what they have built. That's what this that's
(14:02):
what this war has turned into. So this is it's
very tough stuff. I still have a lot of faith,
you know. I even think it's the wrong thing to say,
because I heard Marco Rubio talking about this over the weekend.
It's not just I have faith that if anyone can
get this done, it's Trump. The only person who can
get this done is Donald Trump. And that is that
is not some Trump worship thing. That is the truth.
(14:23):
The only person who could bring this together at this
point in time, who has the gravitas, who's in a
position to bring this horrible war that's killing hundreds of
thousands of people to an end, is Donald Trump. And
I just say that because everyone.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
Especially Ukraine flag waving Slava Ukraine, Americans and Europeans should
be rooting for maximum success here and anything short of
that I think is a really ugly manifestation of Trump
to arrangement syndrome.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
We'll get into more of this. We'll take your calls
on this as well. Here. If your cell phone services
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Speaker 7 (15:53):
The world has gone insane. Reclaim your sanity with Clay
and find Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Podcast, are welcome back into Clay and book. The biggest
thing happening in the world right now is going on
right in the White House. Trump sitting down with Zelenski.
Let's join them live right now, play it the other.
Speaker 8 (16:14):
But all of these deals I made without even the
mention of the words ceamspire.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
President.
Speaker 9 (16:24):
No decision to offer Ukraine R five like security airtees,
but stop short of pushing for their full mens.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
Yeah, well, we haven't done anything on that yet.
Speaker 8 (16:36):
If you look back and you go back love before
President Putin, it was always a statement that they would
never allow Ukraine and today so that was a statement
that was made. But we haven't discussed any of that yet.
We're going to be discussing it today. But we will
give them very good protection, very good security, and.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
That's part of it.
Speaker 8 (16:52):
And the people that are waiting for us, they are
I think they're very like minded.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
They want to help out all.
Speaker 9 (17:00):
Thank you, Thank you, President United States.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
President.
Speaker 9 (17:06):
The United States has already given hundreds of billions of
dollars to this war effort in Ukraine. Biden, at best,
it is a stalemate and the killing continues. So President Trump,
how much more is the United States willing to give Ukraine?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And President Zelenski, how much more do you want?
Speaker 8 (17:23):
Well, I'll start up just by saying we're not giving anything,
that we're selling weapons.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
This is something before.
Speaker 8 (17:30):
I guess the number is well over three hundred billion dollars.
I was under Joe Biden, a corrupt politician, not a
smart man. Never was, by the way, go back forty
years he was not a smart man forty years ago either,
but now he's in particular bed This was done by
a corrupt administration that shouldn't have been in and of
(17:50):
the Frankly, if the right results of the election were given,
if I were president, this war would have never taken place,
and he would have been very happy because he would
have liked to have seen. I mean, they went through hell,
he went through hell. This war would have never happened.
And the people that were killed, a couple of million people,
a lot of people with soldiers and everything else, and
(18:12):
the people that have been displaced and forcing the other
areas in other countries because of what's happened, None of
that would have happened. And I'm just saying that he
was a horrible president. Whether it was the borders or this.
He was just a horrible corrupt president. If you want
to understand, I can't thank you so much.
Speaker 10 (18:33):
So first of all, we have the facility now to
buy weapon from the United States.
Speaker 11 (18:39):
Who are thankful for this program and this opportunity.
Speaker 10 (18:42):
We are thankful for you or would they pay for
this and through need a program for a condatorial and.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
E said, so we have some programs where we.
Speaker 10 (18:49):
Can't have some money to finance this and this apart,
I think it's not a part for the war and
to defend us. It's also will be a part for
security guarantees, to transform our army, to rearm Ukrainian army.
This is very important and it depends how much money
(19:10):
we need to rear. For example, the question of air defense.
We spoke about it with President Trump and I'm happy
that we have now malateral decisions and we work on
it with production of American production. Nobody in Europe has
so many air defense like Patrios for example.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
We need it very much. And this is also about defending.
Speaker 8 (19:34):
Is we make the best military equipment in the world
by far.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
You mentioned the Patriots. How good are systems we have systems?
Speaker 8 (19:42):
They're literally a hundred percent foolproof. And it's really like
shooting two bullets, you know, two bullets setting each other
in the air, and a space like this, a chance
one hundred percent, it's ninety nineteen hundred percent. So we
sell the equipment to NATO, and NATO does what.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
I don't know what the arrangement is that you have
with but I know that they want you to have
the equipment, and we're.
Speaker 8 (20:07):
Getting the best equipment in the world, but they pay
us for the equipment. Under Biden, it was just crazy
what was going on. I believe that number is.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Over three hundred. I think it could be three hundred.
Speaker 8 (20:18):
And fifty billion dollars worth of equipment and money and
everything else. And we've made more progress in settling this
war in the last two months that they made in
four years. They should have been settled a long time ago,
but it should have never happened. Yeah, you pushed out
on social media.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
I go first.
Speaker 9 (20:36):
You pushed out on social media about doing away with
mail in bouts and.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Potentially electronic voting machines. Can you explain on that help
port Well, that's a very off topic. Just really quickly.
Mail in ballots are corrupt, mail in ballots.
Speaker 8 (20:50):
You can never have a real democracy with mail in ballots,
and we as a Republican party, are going to do
everything possible that we get rid of mail involots. We're
going to start with an executive order that's being written
right now by the best lawyers.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
In the country to end mail in ballots because they're corrupt.
And do you know that we're the only country in
the world.
Speaker 8 (21:13):
I believe I may be wrong, but just about the
only country in the world that uses it because of
what's happened, massive fraud all over the place.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
The other thing, we want change of the machines.
Speaker 8 (21:24):
For all of the money they spend, it's approximately ten
times more expensive than paper ballots, and paper ballots are
very sophisticated with the watermark paper and everything else. We
would get secure elections. We get much faster results the machines.
I mean they say we're going to have the results
in two weeks. With paper ballots, you have the results
(21:44):
that night. Most people almost but most people many countries
use paper ballots.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
It's the most secure form.
Speaker 8 (21:52):
So between paper ballots, very very important paper ballots, and
I think maybe even more important the mail in voting.
We're going to end mail in voting. It's a fraud
if you have mail. Even Jimmy Carter with this commission,
they set it up. He said, the one thing about
mail in voting, you will never have an honest election
(22:12):
if you have mail in it. And it's time that
the Republicans get tough and stop it because the Democrats
want it. It's the only way they can get elected
because with men and women's sports, and with transgender for everybody,
in open borders and all of the horrible things.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
And the new thing is they love crime.
Speaker 8 (22:31):
They're fighting me on the fact that I've made Washington,
DC safe. We're not going to get mugged, beaten up
or killed like all the people you've been watching get
so badly hurt. I'm glad. I hate to take your
time with this, but I'm glad you.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Asked me that question, sir.
Speaker 8 (22:47):
We're going to stop mail in ballots because it's corrupt.
You know, when you go to a voting booth and
you do it the right way, and you go to
a state that runs it properly.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
You go in. They even ask me. They asked from
my license plate for identify.
Speaker 8 (23:01):
I said, I don't know if I have it, he said, sir,
you have to have it very impressed. Actually, but it's
very hard to cheat with mail in voting. As you
know what happens in California. It's so corrupt where some
people get five, six, seven ballots delivered to them. Now,
we got to stop mail in voting, and the Republicans
have to lead the charge the Democrats wanted because they
(23:24):
have horrible policy. If you have mail in voting, you're
not going to have many Democrats get elected. That's bigger
than anything having to do with redistricting, believe me. And
the Republicans have to get smart. We're not going to
have a country. I said for a long time at rallies.
You need borders and you need free and fair elections.
Those two things otherwise you don't have. We have strong borders.
(23:47):
Now in ninety days, mister President, we didn't have one
zero zero three months, not one person came in illegally
into our country. In fact, even I find that hard
to believe. But it's by a little bit of a
liberal group that put out the numbers.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
So I guess it's zero, zero and zero. You go
back a year.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
Ago, two years ago, three millions of people poured into
our country.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
It was terrible, Thank you very much.
Speaker 8 (24:16):
Guarantees do you need from President Trump to be able
to make a deals in American.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Troops, intelligent equipment? What is it? Everything? Really?
Speaker 11 (24:28):
It includes two part First strong Ukrainian army that I
began to discuss with your colleagues, and it's a lot
about the weapon and then people and training issues and
intelligence and second will we will discuss with our own partners.
It depends on the big countries, on the United States.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
On a lot of our friends.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
And as to that NATO light protection in order.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
To get President Zelensky to a drill today, Well, I
don't know if.
Speaker 8 (24:59):
You I find it that way, but NATO, like I mean,
we're going to give. We have people waiting in another
room right now. They're all here from Europe, biggest people
in Europe, and they want to give protection. They feel
very strongly about it and will help them out with it.
I think it's very important.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
I think it's I think it's very important to get
the deal.
Speaker 12 (25:20):
You'll get involved with the fask keeping in Ukraine. Since
your fourth day administration, what would you say to the
Ukrainian people right now who are suffering under the Russian
ducks and hoping that the people will stabs out.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Well, I know Ukrainian people have known many over the years.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
They're great people, they're smart, they're energetic, they love their country.
I mean, they love their country, and we want to
get this war ended. That's all I can do. I
love the Ukrainian people, but I love all people. I
love the Russian people, I love them all. I want
to get the war stopped.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Something, all right, So I think we can jump in
there and just I mean that that's question I think
was from Francesca Chambers. I think I couldn't really see.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
But those last couple of questions Buck, I think go
to the crux of the issue. In fact, if I
were in the White House, I would have just cut
it out right there on that Trump answer, because I
think it's a good one. He's trying to bring peace.
He's not here, he's not trying to pick sides that
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
We know, the stuff about what does a security guarantee
look like? This is what I said before Trump was talking.
Before Trump said, as we were discussing this last hour, Clay,
it's gotta be if Russia breaks this new agreement, we're
gonna help blow up bad guy Russians.
Speaker 13 (26:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I mean, that's kind of where it is everyone. I mean,
this is really what the discussion is turning into.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I think, to your point, we have to have basically,
I don't see any solution other than a Korea like
solution where you have a demilitarized zone where you base
have a impenetrable line of defense and you just have
kind of this grudging agreement that there isn't going to
(27:10):
be crossing.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Now.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
The challenge on this Buck, as you well know, is
we were talking about this off air. The drone technology
is advancing so rapidly that having a traditional line of
defense may not matter as much in the years ahead,
because you can basically send drone armies right over the
top of these.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Sort of the entrenchments.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
This is why he was talking about Patriot missiles. Air
defense is now a huge component of this. In the
First World War, you really just had to worry about
artillery coming down on you from the sky. Yeah, there
was the early Air Force stuff, and even at one
point I think they were dropping hand grenades out of planes,
and it was a very different thing in World War One.
But Clay, now it's going to be You're gonna have
(27:57):
these trenches because remember you have to protect against armor,
you have to protect against missiles, you have to protect
against drones, and you have protect against air strikes from
manned aircraft as well. So it's a complicated, multi layered
defense are going to have to have. Stopping people on
the ground, to your point, isn't enough because there's enough
(28:18):
aerial assets that the Russians can bring to bear where
they'll pummel whatever ground fortifications you have unless you have
aerial defense set up as well. So the patriot missiles,
those are for bigger the problem of patriots. They're really expensive.
They are very advanced weaponry, but they're very expensive. So
you don't want to be shooting fifty thousand dollars drones
(28:38):
out of the air with million dollar missiles. That's not
a good that's not a good plan. And industrial capacity
is playing a huge role in this. How many drones
of different types candy Russians churn out monthly and how
many drones can the Ukrainians to take out the Russian
drones and to defend themselves against Russian attacks on their
(29:01):
front lines. And remember the Iranians, the shahedrone is a
that's been a big thing in the Russian arsenal. So
they've got they've got allied countries that are giving them
industrial output assistance. So this thing is a mess. It
is a mess, and Trump is you can just see
it in his eyes too. He just wants all this
(29:22):
madness to stop. He wants this to end, and I
think that he is, by far Clay the best chance
we have of getting it to end. I don't know
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Speaker 1 (30:42):
Two guys walk up to a mic.
Speaker 7 (30:44):
Anything goes Clay Travis and Fuck Sexton. Find them on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Welcome back in Clay Travis, Buck Sext and show Approcade
all of you hanging out with us. We are rolling
through the Monday edition of the program and it is
a super newsworthy one. We just got finished with an
Oval office meeting between Trump and Zolensky, and I would
(31:16):
say as we work towards the idea of a trilateral meeting,
Trump is effectively.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Playing the role of mediator.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
There are also probably more European leaders in the White
House at one moment than we've almost ever seen before.
I mean, you've got the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, England,
the head of NATO, basically everyone arrayed there for a
(31:46):
meeting to discuss the future of the Ukraine Russia conflict.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And I do think the meeting that we.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Just saw between Trump and Zelenski was light years years
different than the last time we saw Zelenski in the
Oval Office when they were negotiating the so called Mineral
Rights agreement. And all of this is moving in rapid speed.
One bit of news that came out at the end
(32:15):
of the press conference, and I don't think we've hardly
even mentioned it, if at all, on this program. Milanya
Trump wrote a letter that Trump hand delivered to Vladimir Putin,
calling on Putin to end the war and stop the
murder suffering that is going on in Europe. That matters
(32:35):
on some level because Milania Trump buck you may remember
the exact country was it. She was from the Czech
Republic area. If I remember, where's.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Milanias from Slovenia.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Slovenia, so she is familiar as someone who was born
and raised in that region in some way, with the
influence of Russia and all of those all of those
angles associated with it. Just now, Zolenski's wife has written
(33:08):
a letter to Milanya, thanking her, reportedly for trying to
do whatever she can to stop the war, and Zolensky
is going to deliver that letter from his wife to Milanya.
Trump I mentioned that only in the context of personal
relationships is everything to Trump, and you can argue, Hey,
(33:31):
that shouldn't be the case. There's huge state departments. Trump
wants to look in the eye of someone else and
have a handshake, agreement or a relationship. It seems to me,
Buck that the relationship between Trump and Zolensky is actually
much stronger now than it was back in Was it
(33:54):
February when they had the Oval Office blow up? If
I remember correctly, I think it was February they had
that iconic head to head meeting after the Pope died
in Rome in the Vatican City, And it seems like
their relationships have been improving since. Uh Slovenia by the
(34:16):
way for those of you who are not geographic experts,
and I would put myself firmly in this category. Slovenia
was a part of Yugoslavia prior to becoming an independent
nation in nineteen ninety one. Just fyi, okay, let me
play some of these cuts that all just came out
in the last.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Hour or so. Let's see.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Trump says there could be a trilateral meeting right off
the top here cut thirty two.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Let's listen.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Yeah, we're gonna have a meeting.
Speaker 8 (34:47):
I think, well, if everything works out well today, we'll
have a trilad and I think there will be a
reasonable chance of ending the world when we do that.
Speaker 9 (34:55):
Is this the end of the road for American support
today's meeting, deal or no deal.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
I can never say that. It's never the end of
the word. People are being killed and we want to
stop that, so I would not say it's the end
of the road. No, I think we have a good
chance of doing it.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
It's been almost.
Speaker 8 (35:14):
Four years now that a lot of people were killed
last week, A lot of people last week. I mean
millions of people killed, but a lot of people last
week for whatever reason, a big number, a lot of
soldiers both on both sides, and I know the president,
I know myself, and I believe Vladimir Putin wants to
see it ended.
Speaker 7 (35:33):
And as you never put on Friday to say presidential
as he here, as you listen to Russia and Ukraine,
which side has the better car us.
Speaker 8 (35:42):
Well, I don't want to say that. I'm just going
to I'm just here to be Look, this isn't my war.
This is Joe Biden's war. He's the one that.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Had a lot to do with this happening.
Speaker 8 (35:52):
And we want to get it ended, and we wanted
to end good for everybody.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
We wanted to end good. The people of Ukraine have
suffered incredibly.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Okay, let me hit you with a couple of others here, buck,
and then we'll break down what we think the significance
is here. Cut thirty seven. Trump says we want a
long term piece. We're not looking for a short term deal.
I think that's important. Cut thirty seven.
Speaker 8 (36:15):
We're going to work with Ukraine, We're going to work
with everybody, and we're going to make sure that if
this piece, the piece is going to stay long term.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
This is very longfam.
Speaker 8 (36:24):
We're not talking about a two year piece and then
we end up in this mess again. We're going to
make sure that everything's could. We'll work with Russia, We're
going to work with Ukraine. We're going to make sure
it works.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
And I think if we can get to piece, it's
going to work. I have no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Okay, So Buck and let me play one more time,
because I think this is probably the most newsworthy element.
Trump not ruling out sending American troops to Ukraine. This
is cut thirty four. I think that was the biggest
news that came out of this pres avaiability in the
Oval Office.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Cut thirty four.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
Just talked about security guarantees, quit involved. US troops would
be ruled that out in the future. Will let you
know that maybe later today.
Speaker 8 (37:06):
We're meeting with seven great leaders of great countries also and.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
We'll be talking about that.
Speaker 8 (37:12):
They'll all be involved, but there'll be a lot of uh,
there'll be a lot of help when it comes to security.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
There's gonna be a lot of help. It's going to
be good.
Speaker 8 (37:20):
They are a fresh line of defense because they're there,
they're Europe.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
But we're gonna help them out. Also, we'll be involved.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Okay, Yeah, that's the big that's the biggest thing of
all here, the land issue, the swaps. You get this.
I get that it's gonna be painful for Ukraine because
they don't think they should lose anything to Russian aggression.
But the realities are what they are right now, and
that I think you can get to a negotiated settlement
(37:51):
right now. The challenge is how does that settlement endure,
and how does it endure specifically without US either guarantee
of security, meaning we would send in actual military to
help repulse another Russian I'm just laying it out everybody,
(38:11):
this is where we are. I'm not advocating for it.
I'm talking about what it would mean. I think we
can all see what it would mean, or as Clay
was laying it out before, the possibility of a US
military presence in Ukraine as the ultimate guaranteur of peace
in the region, because you know, if you have Russian
(38:33):
tanks rolling over and shooting at Americans, that's going to
mean immediately we're involved. But I understand what that also means.
Russia thousands of nukes, major military, first world, first world military,
if not a first world economy. Uh, and it's it's
a challenge. I wonder how now the Trump has to
be clear. Trump hasn't said that's happening. Maybe that doesn't happen.
(38:56):
But we are trying to think here through Clay what
does it get. You know, guarantee is a very powerful word.
What is a guarantee acceptable to Ukraine at this point
that does not involve a clear US maybe an EU
contingent instead. But I don't see how you get around that.
(39:17):
I think there's so many ways to tiptoe up.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
First of all, when we did the mineral rights agreement,
it is a backdoor acknowledgment that will defend American interest
in Ukraine. That's why Ukraine wanted to do the deal.
It wasn't talked about a lot. But when you say, hey,
America owns fifty percent of this mine effectively, then you
are saying we're not gonna let somebody come in and
(39:41):
take away American property. So it is a backdoor defense.
Part of me wonders whether they're gonna get really skillful
in the way that this is drafted. Maybe Europe is
providing some secondary and maybe let me use my vocabulary. Well,
here the American are the tertiary troops and so you
(40:03):
have think about this, and again this is just me
kind of sketching out. You have the Ukrainian troops on
the front line, and Ukraine is staring right across at
Russia in some sort of newly designed battlefield setup that
is not dissimilar to what we have in Korea. In
secondary support, you have so called European peace peace keeping
(40:25):
troops that are basically a secondary line of defense further back,
maybe it's fifty miles, sixty miles, whatever you want to do,
but do have the ability to move to the front
rapidly as needed. Then in a third tier, in a
tertiary level, you have American troops on the ground, protecting,
securing all of the economic interests of the United States.
(40:50):
But that is all the way back, maybe in Kiev,
right very far from the front lines. Is that an
acceptable backdoor ish NATO Article five protection without officially being it,
meaning Russia has to invade in order for those troops
to get called in from line two in line three.
(41:11):
And then the other part of this buck that I
wonder about is how much does Trump just trust that
Putin's not going to test him? That matters, but only
for the next three years. Oh, because if you suddenly
had President Kamala Harris, do you feel comfortable that Putin?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Who knows?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Again, Putin can play the long game a bit here,
because he's got twenty years in theory to still be president,
and he knows at some point sadly in those twenty years,
maybe the United States has Joe Biden two point zero
and he takes advantage of that.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yes, I mean, we all know Kamala is not going
to run again, Clay. But besides that point, if it's
President Newsom or President Kamala Harris, that will change the
calculation for Vladimir Putin, no question about it. I do
think though, that we're in a situation where Trump is
he's going to be negotiating and this thing, and he
(42:05):
might have to come out and tell the Magabase, hey, guys,
this is the only way to get this done, or
else this thing grinds on forever, and then there's a
greater risk of possible American Russian direct conflict. And then
of course there's always that specter in the background of
some kind of a tactical nuclear exchange on the front lines.
(42:26):
Now nobody wants that. I hope it doesn't come to
US troops as the guarantee. I'm just trying to think
of what this was why we talked about the sanctions thing.
Anything that is, oh, we're gonna make Russia's economy beg
for mercy is not a guarantee of Ukrainian security. That's
what we've already seen. Oka There is nothing that they
(42:50):
can promise on the economic warfare front against Russia that
would make any savvy Ukrainian think that that's actually a guarantee.
It's a stumbling block to Russian aggression at best. So
with that, it's got to be military. I'm also reminded
here of Clay of how right Trump was all along,
(43:11):
even in his first term, about how NATO needs to
step up, NATO needs to spend more in its defense,
Europe needs to stop being a bunch of free riders.
EU is the largest economy in the world. Everybody, the
EU is the largest economy in the world, you know,
the Eurozone. Now, obviously it's a lot of different countries
put together, but why is America by far the biggest
(43:31):
contributor to this in materiel And why isn't you know,
why isn't Europe stepping up and realizing you know, all
those fancy social welfare states you got running, guys, it's
only because of the American security guarantee you've been able
to get that going.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
And I thought part of the press conference that was
actually interesting and illuminating in that aspect was Trump pointing
out NATO spending has gotten to basically five percent or
they have that target.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Now.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
The way that this is structured since Trump came into
office is we sell weapons to NATO, and then NATO
then provides those weapons to Ukraine. In some way, it
sounded like that was the way that he was describing it.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
This is the role of Pakistan, by the way, in
the Soviet Afghan War and the Pakistani ISI Interservices intelligence agency,
they were the cutouts for us to get the stingers
and the other weaponry. You know, you guys remember Charlie
Wilson's war to bring that up again, But it was
the Pakistani intelligence services because they could operate in that region. Obviously,
(44:30):
the Europeans are already in country and can pass along
whenever we need them to pass along. I would also
point this out, President Trump has got such a connection
with his base and with the Republican Party in general.
I think that a lot of people just trust him
to get a deal done, and I think that gives
him the flexibility to do some things that other Republican
(44:54):
leaders couldn't.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
I think people trust Trump to keep us out of war.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
I really do, and I do think that that gives
him negotiating leverage to try to get a deal done.
The thing that Russia wants, again, I think is always
so important. What do the people want? Russia wants land,
Ukraine wants security. That's their number one goal. We can
provide some of that security, but how is it structured
(45:19):
is the key, and that's the devil in the details,
so to speak.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
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Speaker 1 (46:54):
News you can count on and some laughs too. Clay,
Travis and Bucks.
Speaker 7 (47:00):
Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck guys. Just a quick
cleanup on Aisle Buck here. Sorry, I got a stat
wrong and it's an important one, so maya Kulpa give
me a code read. At one point in the twenty
first century, the EU had a larger economy than the US.
I think was around two thousand and eight. The team
just pulled up all the numbers.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
But we have.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Absolutely smoked the EU over the last fifteen years or
so in terms of GDP growth. So we're at about
what is it like, we're the day They all the
European countries combined are about twenty trillion. We're about thirty trillion.
So sorry, sorry, sorry. Their population is larger than ours.
They've got about four hundred and fifty million. We've got
about three hundred and thirty depending on how you want
(47:45):
to count the illegals. But you know, the whole other thing.
But so they have a bigger population manpower. But in
terms of you know, we're talking about the Ukraine situation,
but in terms of material monetary resources. What an astonishing
stat in favor of the US approach of things. By
the way, it's not even close. Over the last fifteen
years we have absolutely It turns out working twenty hours
(48:07):
a week and like three days a week, and you know,
having eight weeks off a year doesn't make you as
rich as what Americans do, So Maya coulp all VIPs.
I'm sorry, Buck is fallible on both serving and stats,
although the serve game is not over yet. Let's take
our friend Frank Gaffney here. Frank Gaffney was President Reagan's
Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy. Also served
(48:31):
as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Nuclear Forces
and Arms Control policy. Frank, appreciate you being here. I'm
sure you saw what's going on in that Trump White
House in that meeting. Can we just dive into the
security guarantee part, because that's the sticky situation that seems
to be emerging right now. What do you make of it?
Speaker 13 (48:52):
Well, it's sticky all the way around, just the best
I can tell. On the one hand, I'm incredulous that
Vladimir Putin will actually accept it. I'm also somewhat surprised
that President Trump apparently has in some form or another.
And you know, whether it's enough to persuade the Ukrainians
(49:17):
to relinquished territory that they've lost, to be frank, but
nonetheless seek to recover, remains very much to be seen.
So it is what the Brits would call, I think
a sticky wicket in the cricket gain.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Frank.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
It seems that basically this is boiled down to Russia's
going to demand territory, Ukraine's going to demand security guarantees.
I mean that seems to be the primary goal of
each side at this point. How does this resolve itself?
Is there any parallel in the Cold War? The analogy
we've been using is Korea. You have a demilitarized zone.
(49:57):
It's been a tenuous piece, but it now has lasted
for seventy five some odd years. Ish, is there any
precedent there? How would you solve this this situation if
you were given the ability to act as mediator, Well, I.
Speaker 13 (50:14):
Would do one thing that, as far as I can tell,
is not on the table or even being discussed, and
that is I would hold the Chinese Communist Party accountable
for the fix that we're in at the moment. I
believe that they Jijing thing specifically green lighted the invasion
of Iraq, excued me out of Ukraine, and in so
(50:38):
doing has been ever since the enabler of this war.
I think they did it for selfish reasons. I believe
that it is to distract the United States and the Europeans,
to tie us down to bleed us in terms of
military equipment and financial means, and that all serves the
(51:02):
purpose China for its own agenda out in the Pacific.
So I would start by saying, those guys have to
be held accountable for what's being done here, and without that,
I honestly am not sure that the Russians will agree
to anything. I think as long as the Chinese believe,
as they've indicated, that this war should continue, the much
(51:24):
junior partner in this so called no limits partnership name
with Vladimir Putin is probably going to be heating his
bosses in Beijing. So it's a challenge that is not
currently being addressed, as I said, and I think that
until it does, it's not clear to me that any
(51:44):
of these negotiations amount the bunch.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
So we're still hoping for breakthrough breakthroughs here, Frank, and
we're going to get more details about where the Ukrainian
side comes down on this. It seems like there's a
willingness for Zelensky to sit down with Putin, which is
certainly a necessary precondition for the trilateral trilateral discussion, if
not trilatal agreement to come out of this. What, though,
(52:12):
do you think what can Trump do to pressure the
Russians to actually be willing to end this thing? Because
that's one thing that's getting a lot of attention right now.
As this is going on, as these discussions are happening,
and Trump was saying it in the Oval Office, the
Russians are escalating their offensive. The Russians are trying to
run up more casualties on the Ukrainian side as we're
(52:34):
supposed to see conversations about peace. So do you think
all the economic levers have been pulled? How can Trump
get through to Putin that he won't just continue to
get more if he keeps fighting.
Speaker 13 (52:47):
Well again, Trump has placed secondary sanctions on India for
buying Russian oil at this kount of Prisis. The Chinese
are also doing that, and I think if Trump wants
to bring real pressure to bear on Putin. Put those
secondary sanctions on China, and I think you'll see that
(53:08):
there's probably a willingness to get to an agreement that
doesn't exist at the moment. That's what I would do.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
How do you preserve Okay, let's pretend that Ukraine, because
this is where I do think Zolensky has a maybe
the most important argument. Let's say that he says, Okay,
we're going to give you some of the territory that
you have invaded that we don't think you deserve. But
you took this land, and we're going to draw a
new border. But based on the way Putin has behaved
(53:37):
over the last ten years, how do you, if you're Zolensky,
knowing that Trump only has three and a half years
left in office, keep any kind of security apparatus or
faith in this deal when Putin has shown that he
will not abide by any sort of agreement not to
(53:59):
invade again, meaning as soon as Trump leaves and you
end up with another week democrat in office, Putin tries
to take another bite at the apple. In other words,
I'm actually sympathetic to Zelenski. The security guarantee seem to
be to me, the most important thing for Ukraine. I
don't understand how you change that dynamic.
Speaker 13 (54:20):
I'm not sure you can again, unless there is some
disincentive to putin that is not evident at the moment.
To the contrary, I think that, but he is signaling
in his behavior to date for sure, and arguably in
some of his posturing at the moment, is he's leaving
(54:41):
his options open, and that means that a security guarantee
is necessary. I'm just not sure that the United States
has the appetite for it, and if it does, whether
it will be broadly, you know, supported by the American people,
who has tucked ourselves into a position where a lot
of folks, particularly in the Maga community, are persuaded that
(55:06):
Ukraine's not our problem and we certainly don't want to
put American boots or lives on the line to protect it.
I like you, I think, have some sympathy for the
argument that the Ukrainians are making, especially because back in
ninety four we gave them security guarantees if they gave
up nuclear weapons and that went over the side, and
(55:27):
they're rightfully, I think, very reluctant to buy that pig
in a poke.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Again, what do you make.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Of the argument that has been out there among some
of the more hawkish Ukraine supporters in this country that
if Putin isn't stopped definitively in Ukraine, he will go
into other countries in Europe. Because you're hearing less of
that right now, because I think everyone's focused on this
(55:54):
current negotiation. But that has certainly been something that people
have been saying Aboutsh's intentions.
Speaker 13 (56:02):
I think that is Putin's intention. He's made no secret
that he thinks the greatest disaster of the twentieth century
was the fall of the old Soviet Union. I think
he seeks to, if not re establish it fully than
some fashion of the Russian Empire, and that means bites
of parts of Europe again, and I had to belabor
(56:25):
this point, but I think in some measure it's a
function of whether he's going to have the backing and
support of China to do such a thing. And unless
we get serious about dissuading the Chinese from thinking that
more chaos, what I call strategic arson, is something that
they can pursue with impunity, you're going to find, I
(56:49):
think Putin believing that he can in fact, similarly act
with impunity if not immediately down the road.
Speaker 3 (56:58):
Okay, so let's say we don't get any sub and
at all, we're coming up on the winter. Typically things
kind of grind to a halt just based on the
difficulties in moving men and material based on.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
The weather there. How long would this go on?
Speaker 3 (57:13):
In your mind, if both sides just continue basically on
the trajectory were on right now.
Speaker 13 (57:22):
Well, something that's changed in the course of this war
is that it's not all about you know, the movement
of mechanized divisions. That gets very tricky in the winter time,
especially the muddy periods at the beginning and end of it.
(57:43):
But what I think you're going to be seeing more
of is more attacks of rockets and drones. Especially the
war can continue. That is a question of resources on
the part of the Ukrainians. It's particularly human resources, and
seemingly the Russians being bankrolled by the Chinese again and
(58:06):
getting all kinds of equipment for the war from Iran.
If it's well, as they're still in power there, I
hope that that will be something else that we attend
to and bring to a close.
Speaker 2 (58:19):
Rank a god with Reagan, you were privy to high
level discussions of this nature. You know what the feel
is like, what the tone is like when things are
progressing versus when things are stalling. How would you gauge
your optimism at what we've seen so far today, added
to what we saw Friday in Alaska.
Speaker 13 (58:41):
I think it's a work in progress. And my guess
is that what we're going to see more of is
posturing and a decision that there's more meetings to be had.
So I think that this is not yet ripe for
a conclusion. I hope I'm wrong, but I think there
are pieces of this that haven't yet been addressed, as
I say, and that means this will continue at the
(59:03):
talking stage, I suppose, as well as the warring stage
while the talking goes on.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
Thank you, Frank, We appreciate the time and you coming
on and sharing your expertise with.
Speaker 13 (59:12):
Us, happy to do it. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (59:15):
Look, it's football season, and I know people maybe need
a little bit of an uplift as there's been some
some dour things out there on the global stage, and
one of the best things to just kind of kick back,
have a beer is football. And I know my son's
football season kicks off on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
That is high school football. But a lot of you out.
Speaker 3 (59:38):
There are gearing up too, whether it's the NFL, whether
it's college football. And our friends at prize Picks right
now in forty plus states, including California, including Texas, including Florida,
we're gonna make you, hopefully I'll have a lot more
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five dollars, that's pricepicks dot com, my name Clay.
Speaker 7 (01:00:26):
Making America great again isn't just one man, It's many.
The Team forty seven podcast Sunday's at noon Eastern in
the Clay and Fuck podcast feed. Find it on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts
Clay.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Have you heard of the Rio Reset?
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Sounds like a trendy new workout, Buck, it.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Does, but it's actually a big summit going on in Brazil.
The formal name is BRICKS, which stands for Brazil, Russia, India,
China and South Africa. But they've just added five new members.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Smart move to stick with Bricks. We know what happens
when acronyms don't end. They confuse everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, that's an understatement. Bricks is a group of emerging
economies hoping to increase their sway in the global financial order.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Now that sounds like the plot line of a movie.
I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Philip Patrick is our Bruce Wayne. He's a precious metal
specialist and a spokesman for the Birch Gold Group. He's
on the ground in Rio getting the whole low down
on what's going on there.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Can he give us some inside intel?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Absolutely, he's been there since day one. In fact, a
major theme at the summit is how Bricks Nations aim
to reduce reliance on the US dollar in global trade.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yikes, that doesn't sound good. We got to get Philip
on the line.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Stat already did and he left the Clay and Buck
audience this message.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
The world is moving on from the dollar quietly but steadily.
These nations are making real progress towards reshaping global trade,
and the US dollar is no longer the centerpiece. That
shift doesn't happen overnight. That make no mistake, It's already begun.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thank you, Philip. Protect the value of your savings account
your four oh one k r ira, all of them,
by purchasing gold and placing it into those accounts and
reducing your exposure to a declining dollar value. Text my
name Buck to ninety eight ninety eight ninety eight you
get the free information you'll need to make the right decision.
You can rely on Birch Gold Group as I do
to give you the information you need to make an
(01:38):
informed decision. One more time, Text my name Buck to
ninety eight ninety eight ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Welcome in Monday edition, Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We
hope all of you had fabulous weekends, and boy, we
are jumping right into the deep end of the pool
with a major news day underway. We will discuss the
outcome of the Anchorage Summit, but already it is being
(02:04):
replaced by Zelenski on his way to the White House
along with many of the top leaders from throughout Europe.
This will be one of the largest collections of leaders
to ever visit the White House at one point in time.
Here is the list, European Commissioned President Ursula Vonderline. Well,
(02:26):
that's not a good one to start with. I have
no idea how to pronounce that last name, Man wonder Layan,
Is that right? Italian Prime Minister Georgia. Well, anyway, Italy, France, Britain,
Germany and Finland, along with the Secretary General of NATO
all going to be participating in this huge meeting. And Buck,
(02:49):
let's just dive right into it, because I think this
is the essence of the question. It seems to me,
and you sign off for you take issue with Mayan
out here, it seems to me that we now have
a sense for what both sides want, and the question
is can there be some sort of negotiated settlement slash ceasefire?
(03:12):
And I've got an idea of how this ends, but
I want to see if you sign on or if
you think it goes a different direction. The thing that
is Reel, the thing that Israel, the thing that Russia
wants the most is the province of Danesk or Danosk
or however you pronounce it. And it seems quite clear
that that is their primary aim here, and they have
(03:35):
about eighty percent of it so far and they want
one hundred percent of it.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Right now.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Ukraine is saying we will not give up any land.
I understand that argument. I think that is past. There
is no world in which Ukraine does not have to
give up land. The question is how much. What Ukraine
most wants is some form of security guarantee. And it
seems to me that there is a resolution of this
(04:04):
conflict that would potentially look something like what happened with
North and South Korea. I don't know that you have
a demilitarized zone necessarily, but we still have a ton
of troops in South Korea. Technically that war has never
really ended, but we provided security guarantees and as a result,
(04:24):
there is a sort of a tenuous piece that is
now extended for multiple generations. That feels to me like
the most likely outcome here. Ukraine gets some form of
security guarantee, Russia gets more of the Ukrainian land, and
we have a tenuous peace that is put in place
with the security guarantee in some way trying to act
(04:47):
as a major point of dissuading Russia from ever invading
more pork parts of Ukraine going forward. Do you sign
off on that idea, that framework in general. If not,
what do you think needs to be added to the equation?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yes, we now know after the meeting with Trump and Putin,
which I saw, of course, a lot of people in
the media who are anti Trump were rushing to say, see,
they don't have a deal. There wasn't going to be
a deal because Ukraine's not there. It's about laying the
groundwork for a deal. This is the biggest, nastiest, most
horrible conflict military conflict in the world right now. It
(05:26):
is not something that you can just snap your fingers
and it goes away. Trump is trying to bring this
to a conclusion. If he does so, it will be
the most successful act of diplomacy from an American president
in I don't know, Clay, since Reagan bringing down the
Berlin Wall and ending the Cold War. I mean, really,
you have to go back quite nothing. Clinton did, nothing,
(05:49):
Bush did, certainly nothing Obama did, and Biden wasn't even
really president as we know. So this is high stakes,
the highest stakes, and yes, you're right, this is really
what it comes down to. You have the Ukrainians who
don't want to seed even more territories than the Russians
currently have. And that's what the Russian demand is right
(06:09):
now is we want everything we've got and then some
to stop this war. That's what's come out of this
sit down with Trump and Putin. The Ukrainian demand is, look,
before we can even say we'll give you anything, we
need to know that this is really it. You know.
It's a little bit like if you're being blackmailed, what's
the big question for somebody? And this is a form
of blackmail in a sense, this evasion, right, the big
(06:31):
question is, Okay, if I give you a bag of money,
is this the last bag of money or are you
going to show up every six months demanding more. Is
Russia going to just think this is a pause and
then they can take more of Ukraine. That's where the
security guarantees come in now, Clay, the challenge on the
security guarantee front is that starts to sound a lot
(06:52):
like NATO Article five to people, which is a huge
red line for Putin and has been all along. And
I think for a lot of Americans too, would be
hold on a second. So now if Russia does decide
to go more, we are going to you know, send
in troops or we are going to be military. Now
I'm sure what's happening is it's going to be European partners,
(07:14):
you know, financial and economic sanctions arrayed. The problem though,
is that that's not enough. And this is something that
we've all seen over and over again. Sanctions are a tool.
They are not an answer. They were not an answer
in a rock with Saddam Hussein. They were not an
answer with well, the Kadafi thing, there's a whole bunch
of stuff we could say about that. But sanctions alone
(07:36):
because he was actually going in our direction when we
decided to topple when you know, the Clinton, the Obama
Clinton apparatus decided to topple him. But sanctions alone don't
just end things for you. So Clay, this is where
this is where the detailed negotiations really matter. You know,
what is a security guarante? What security guarantee for Ukraine
is sufficient other than we will put US troops in
(08:00):
harm's way or US troops will be the cavalry if
after this deal Russia decides to restart hostilities. I don't
see us doing that. I don't think we should do that.
And so then is what's a realistic security guarantee for
a country that the UK, Russia, and America all promised
when it gave up its nukes big mistake, we will
(08:22):
guarantee your security forty years ago or whatever it was.
So this is tough stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I'm sympathetic for Ukraine because, as you hit on, it's
not that they're concerned about necessarily how this conflict resolves.
It's that the last decade plus of Russian behavior has
shown them that they never stop. They always want another
bite at the apple. And I believe ukraine position is
(08:49):
we have a very strong defensive works and if we
give up this particular part of our country, that is
going to gum up the apparatus to allow us to
have a strong defensive line going forward. To say nothing
of the fact that Ukraine believes this is their line,
that it's it's their territory and they don't want to
give it up. So I just think that this has
(09:11):
turned into this has turned into to really understand, and
I've been over the weekend. I was kind of going
through as much of the more detailed analysis of this
as I could, Clay.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
This is.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
World War one trench warfare with drones and satellite communications.
That's where we are. So you have a very detailed
I mean, the Wall Street Journal had this layout of
the fortifications. They have a six layer fortification barrier, and
everyone's saying, you know, kind of like a magine No line,
(09:46):
which of course does not Historically the French magin No
line did not work out well. But this one is
being specifically built to be anti tank as well in nature.
So the way the journal laid it out, they've got
barbed wire and metal coil that are low viz, low
visibility to intentionally entrap it ensnare Russian not just armor,
(10:07):
but the Russians have been using motorbikes to try to
just break through small areas in the lines. Then it's
an anti tank ditch. Then it is anti vehicle barriers
they call dragon's teeth, these cement pyramids that they're putting down.
All of you who are GWAT veterans, remember the Hesco barriers,
Jersey barriers, Hesco bear huge thing was these cement, big
(10:29):
cement blocks essentially to stop vehicle born improvise explosive devices.
Then there's a second anti tank ditch clay, and then
a third anti tank ditch with mines, and then a
six layer of additional barbed wire and metal coil. So
this is very reminiscent of the trenches in the First
World War. It's just higher technology and they have to
(10:52):
be very cognizant of these drones, these anti personnel drones
that can that are coming down at you from the sky, right,
So it's almost like artillery rounds, but they're smart rounds
in that someone is using a camera to find you
and get you. And it is brutal warfare. A lot
of people are being caught up in the coils and
(11:12):
the wire, and then they wait and they are drone
circling overhead, and the drone comes in and blows them up.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Trump said, And I don't know how accurate this is,
because sometimes casualties get conflated with deaths. Trump said, twenty
thousand Russian troops died in July. Again, that is the
most recent number that I've heard publicly out there. Now,
maybe it's twenty thousand casualties, because again, sometimes those numbers
get used in fluctuating ways. I think it's clear that
(11:41):
hundreds of thousands of people have been severely injured and
or killed on both sides of this of this fight
so far, and so really I do think the benefit
of the meeting in Russia is sorry with Russia in
Anchorage is we now know I think somewhat what Putin wants,
(12:06):
and a lot of people are focused on, well, we
didn't get an immediate ceasefire, and I understand that that
would be better in theory, but really the goal is peace.
It's not a ceasefire, and so Ukraine's going to have
to give up land and there's going to have to
be some sort of security guarantee that is put in place.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I think the big the asterisk though play is we
know what Putin wants now, and I think that's where
there's a big stumbling block here for Ukraine. That's what
gets in the security guarantees. If they could be certain
that the territory that Russia already has maybe plus a
little bit, would be the end of this. That's one
thing I think they feel that this war has been
(12:44):
going on not just since the major invasion, but before that,
the Russian Meskarovka, the Deception War, the oh, there's some
separatists who are all just Russians being ordered out of Moscow,
that it would be a ceasefire and then give it
some time, and then the Russians breakthrough again, right because
why not? And so I think that's where this becomes
(13:06):
really hard. You have to be damn sure on the
Ukrainian side, and Zelenski does that, whatever the concessions are,
it'll be it'll be like North and South Korea, where
you're not just gonna punch through that line and do
whatever you want afterwards. And that's been going on for
a long.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Time, which is why I think maybe a solution yere
is some form of demilitarized zone. I know it's more
complicated because no one lives in the demilitarized zone and
this would theoretically be places where people have been living,
But that seems to me the best way to potentially
solve this.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's basically what they're building. I mean, when you're talking
about the expansive it's hundreds of miles of these fortifications
play Really it's World War One reducts in that sense.
I mean, this is not it's not a few places
where they're dug in, they're dug in along an entire
front of hundreds of miles. So yeah, it's it's crazy.
It's crazy what they have built. That's what this that's
(14:02):
what this war has turned into. So this is it's
very tough stuff. I still have a lot of faith,
you know. I even think it's the wrong thing to say,
because I heard Marco Rubio talking about this over the weekend.
It's not just I have faith that if anyone can
get this done, it's Trump. The only person who can
get this done is Donald Trump. And that is that
is not some Trump worship thing. That is the truth.
(14:23):
The only person who could bring this together at this
point in time, who has the gravitas, who's in a
position to bring this horrible war that's killing hundreds of
thousands of people to an end, is Donald Trump. And
I just say that because everyone.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
Especially Ukraine flag waving Slava Ukraine, Americans and Europeans should
be rooting for maximum success here and anything short of
that I think is a really ugly manifestation of Trump
to arrangement syndrome.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
We'll get into more of this. We'll take your calls
on this as well. Here. If your cell phone services
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Speaker 7 (15:53):
The world has gone insane. Reclaim your sanity with Clay
and find Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Podcast, are welcome back into Clay and book. The biggest
thing happening in the world right now is going on
right in the White House. Trump sitting down with Zelenski.
Let's join them live right now, play it the other.
Speaker 8 (16:14):
But all of these deals I made without even the
mention of the words ceamspire.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
President.
Speaker 9 (16:24):
No decision to offer Ukraine R five like security airtees,
but stop short of pushing for their full mens.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
Yeah, well, we haven't done anything on that yet.
Speaker 8 (16:36):
If you look back and you go back love before
President Putin, it was always a statement that they would
never allow Ukraine and today so that was a statement
that was made. But we haven't discussed any of that yet.
We're going to be discussing it today. But we will
give them very good protection, very good security, and.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
That's part of it.
Speaker 8 (16:52):
And the people that are waiting for us, they are
I think they're very like minded.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
They want to help out all.
Speaker 9 (17:00):
Thank you, Thank you, President United States.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
President.
Speaker 9 (17:06):
The United States has already given hundreds of billions of
dollars to this war effort in Ukraine. Biden, at best,
it is a stalemate and the killing continues. So President Trump,
how much more is the United States willing to give Ukraine?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And President Zelenski, how much more do you want?
Speaker 8 (17:23):
Well, I'll start up just by saying we're not giving anything,
that we're selling weapons.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
This is something before.
Speaker 8 (17:30):
I guess the number is well over three hundred billion dollars.
I was under Joe Biden, a corrupt politician, not a
smart man. Never was, by the way, go back forty
years he was not a smart man forty years ago either,
but now he's in particular bed This was done by
a corrupt administration that shouldn't have been in and of
(17:50):
the Frankly, if the right results of the election were given,
if I were president, this war would have never taken place,
and he would have been very happy because he would
have liked to have seen. I mean, they went through hell,
he went through hell. This war would have never happened.
And the people that were killed, a couple of million people,
a lot of people with soldiers and everything else, and
(18:12):
the people that have been displaced and forcing the other
areas in other countries because of what's happened, None of
that would have happened. And I'm just saying that he
was a horrible president. Whether it was the borders or this.
He was just a horrible corrupt president. If you want
to understand, I can't thank you so much.
Speaker 10 (18:33):
So first of all, we have the facility now to
buy weapon from the United States.
Speaker 11 (18:39):
Who are thankful for this program and this opportunity.
Speaker 10 (18:42):
We are thankful for you or would they pay for
this and through need a program for a condatorial and.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
E said, so we have some programs where we.
Speaker 10 (18:49):
Can't have some money to finance this and this apart,
I think it's not a part for the war and
to defend us. It's also will be a part for
security guarantees, to transform our army, to rearm Ukrainian army.
This is very important and it depends how much money
(19:10):
we need to rear. For example, the question of air defense.
We spoke about it with President Trump and I'm happy
that we have now malateral decisions and we work on
it with production of American production. Nobody in Europe has
so many air defense like Patrios for example.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
We need it very much. And this is also about defending.
Speaker 8 (19:34):
Is we make the best military equipment in the world
by far.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
You mentioned the Patriots. How good are systems we have systems?
Speaker 8 (19:42):
They're literally a hundred percent foolproof. And it's really like
shooting two bullets, you know, two bullets setting each other
in the air, and a space like this, a chance
one hundred percent, it's ninety nineteen hundred percent. So we
sell the equipment to NATO, and NATO does what.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
I don't know what the arrangement is that you have
with but I know that they want you to have
the equipment, and we're.
Speaker 8 (20:07):
Getting the best equipment in the world, but they pay
us for the equipment. Under Biden, it was just crazy
what was going on. I believe that number is.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Over three hundred. I think it could be three hundred.
Speaker 8 (20:18):
And fifty billion dollars worth of equipment and money and
everything else. And we've made more progress in settling this
war in the last two months that they made in
four years. They should have been settled a long time ago,
but it should have never happened. Yeah, you pushed out
on social media.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
I go first.
Speaker 9 (20:36):
You pushed out on social media about doing away with
mail in bouts and.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Potentially electronic voting machines. Can you explain on that help
port Well, that's a very off topic. Just really quickly.
Mail in ballots are corrupt, mail in ballots.
Speaker 8 (20:50):
You can never have a real democracy with mail in ballots,
and we as a Republican party, are going to do
everything possible that we get rid of mail involots. We're
going to start with an executive order that's being written
right now by the best lawyers.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
In the country to end mail in ballots because they're corrupt.
And do you know that we're the only country in
the world.
Speaker 8 (21:13):
I believe I may be wrong, but just about the
only country in the world that uses it because of
what's happened, massive fraud all over the place.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
The other thing, we want change of the machines.
Speaker 8 (21:24):
For all of the money they spend, it's approximately ten
times more expensive than paper ballots, and paper ballots are
very sophisticated with the watermark paper and everything else. We
would get secure elections. We get much faster results the machines.
I mean they say we're going to have the results
in two weeks. With paper ballots, you have the results
(21:44):
that night. Most people almost but most people many countries
use paper ballots.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
It's the most secure form.
Speaker 8 (21:52):
So between paper ballots, very very important paper ballots, and
I think maybe even more important the mail in voting.
We're going to end mail in voting. It's a fraud
if you have mail. Even Jimmy Carter with this commission,
they set it up. He said, the one thing about
mail in voting, you will never have an honest election
(22:12):
if you have mail in it. And it's time that
the Republicans get tough and stop it because the Democrats
want it. It's the only way they can get elected
because with men and women's sports, and with transgender for everybody,
in open borders and all of the horrible things.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
And the new thing is they love crime.
Speaker 8 (22:31):
They're fighting me on the fact that I've made Washington,
DC safe. We're not going to get mugged, beaten up
or killed like all the people you've been watching get
so badly hurt. I'm glad. I hate to take your
time with this, but I'm glad you.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Asked me that question, sir.
Speaker 8 (22:47):
We're going to stop mail in ballots because it's corrupt.
You know, when you go to a voting booth and
you do it the right way, and you go to
a state that runs it properly.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
You go in. They even ask me. They asked from
my license plate for identify.
Speaker 8 (23:01):
I said, I don't know if I have it, he said, sir,
you have to have it very impressed. Actually, but it's
very hard to cheat with mail in voting. As you
know what happens in California. It's so corrupt where some
people get five, six, seven ballots delivered to them. Now,
we got to stop mail in voting, and the Republicans
have to lead the charge the Democrats wanted because they
(23:24):
have horrible policy. If you have mail in voting, you're
not going to have many Democrats get elected. That's bigger
than anything having to do with redistricting, believe me. And
the Republicans have to get smart. We're not going to
have a country. I said for a long time at rallies.
You need borders and you need free and fair elections.
Those two things otherwise you don't have. We have strong borders.
(23:47):
Now in ninety days, mister President, we didn't have one
zero zero three months, not one person came in illegally
into our country. In fact, even I find that hard
to believe. But it's by a little bit of a
liberal group that put out the numbers.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
So I guess it's zero, zero and zero. You go
back a year.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
Ago, two years ago, three millions of people poured into
our country.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
It was terrible, Thank you very much.
Speaker 8 (24:16):
Guarantees do you need from President Trump to be able
to make a deals in American.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Troops, intelligent equipment? What is it? Everything? Really?
Speaker 11 (24:28):
It includes two part First strong Ukrainian army that I
began to discuss with your colleagues, and it's a lot
about the weapon and then people and training issues and
intelligence and second will we will discuss with our own partners.
It depends on the big countries, on the United States.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
On a lot of our friends.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
And as to that NATO light protection in order.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
To get President Zelensky to a drill today, Well, I
don't know if.
Speaker 8 (24:59):
You I find it that way, but NATO, like I mean,
we're going to give. We have people waiting in another
room right now. They're all here from Europe, biggest people
in Europe, and they want to give protection. They feel
very strongly about it and will help them out with it.
I think it's very important.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
I think it's I think it's very important to get
the deal.
Speaker 12 (25:20):
You'll get involved with the fask keeping in Ukraine. Since
your fourth day administration, what would you say to the
Ukrainian people right now who are suffering under the Russian
ducks and hoping that the people will stabs out.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Well, I know Ukrainian people have known many over the years.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
They're great people, they're smart, they're energetic, they love their country.
I mean, they love their country, and we want to
get this war ended. That's all I can do. I
love the Ukrainian people, but I love all people. I
love the Russian people, I love them all. I want
to get the war stopped.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Something, all right, So I think we can jump in
there and just I mean that that's question I think
was from Francesca Chambers. I think I couldn't really see.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
But those last couple of questions Buck, I think go
to the crux of the issue. In fact, if I
were in the White House, I would have just cut
it out right there on that Trump answer, because I
think it's a good one. He's trying to bring peace.
He's not here, he's not trying to pick sides that
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
We know, the stuff about what does a security guarantee
look like? This is what I said before Trump was talking.
Before Trump said, as we were discussing this last hour, Clay,
it's gotta be if Russia breaks this new agreement, we're
gonna help blow up bad guy Russians.
Speaker 13 (26:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I mean, that's kind of where it is everyone. I mean,
this is really what the discussion is turning into.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I think, to your point, we have to have basically,
I don't see any solution other than a Korea like
solution where you have a demilitarized zone where you base
have a impenetrable line of defense and you just have
kind of this grudging agreement that there isn't going to
(27:10):
be crossing.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Now.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
The challenge on this Buck, as you well know, is
we were talking about this off air. The drone technology
is advancing so rapidly that having a traditional line of
defense may not matter as much in the years ahead,
because you can basically send drone armies right over the
top of these.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Sort of the entrenchments.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
This is why he was talking about Patriot missiles. Air
defense is now a huge component of this. In the
First World War, you really just had to worry about
artillery coming down on you from the sky. Yeah, there
was the early Air Force stuff, and even at one
point I think they were dropping hand grenades out of planes,
and it was a very different thing in World War One.
But Clay, now it's going to be You're gonna have
(27:57):
these trenches because remember you have to protect against armor,
you have to protect against missiles, you have to protect
against drones, and you have protect against air strikes from
manned aircraft as well. So it's a complicated, multi layered
defense are going to have to have. Stopping people on
the ground, to your point, isn't enough because there's enough
(28:18):
aerial assets that the Russians can bring to bear where
they'll pummel whatever ground fortifications you have unless you have
aerial defense set up as well. So the patriot missiles,
those are for bigger the problem of patriots. They're really expensive.
They are very advanced weaponry, but they're very expensive. So
you don't want to be shooting fifty thousand dollars drones
(28:38):
out of the air with million dollar missiles. That's not
a good that's not a good plan. And industrial capacity
is playing a huge role in this. How many drones
of different types candy Russians churn out monthly and how
many drones can the Ukrainians to take out the Russian
drones and to defend themselves against Russian attacks on their
(29:01):
front lines. And remember the Iranians, the shahedrone is a
that's been a big thing in the Russian arsenal. So
they've got they've got allied countries that are giving them
industrial output assistance. So this thing is a mess. It
is a mess, and Trump is you can just see
it in his eyes too. He just wants all this
(29:22):
madness to stop. He wants this to end, and I
think that he is, by far Clay the best chance
we have of getting it to end. I don't know
anybody else who could even be having this kind of
a trilateral or I should say, hopefully, what will be
a trilateral sit down when we get Russia and Ukraine
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phishing attackle though those can be very sophisticated. They get
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Speaker 1 (30:42):
Two guys walk up to a mic.
Speaker 7 (30:44):
Anything goes Clay Travis and Fuck Sexton. Find them on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Welcome back in Clay Travis, Buck Sext and show Approcade
all of you hanging out with us. We are rolling
through the Monday edition of the program and it is
a super newsworthy one. We just got finished with an
Oval office meeting between Trump and Zolensky, and I would
(31:16):
say as we work towards the idea of a trilateral meeting,
Trump is effectively.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Playing the role of mediator.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
There are also probably more European leaders in the White
House at one moment than we've almost ever seen before.
I mean, you've got the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, England,
the head of NATO, basically everyone arrayed there for a
(31:46):
meeting to discuss the future of the Ukraine Russia conflict.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And I do think the meeting that we.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Just saw between Trump and Zelenski was light years years
different than the last time we saw Zelenski in the
Oval Office when they were negotiating the so called Mineral
Rights agreement. And all of this is moving in rapid speed.
One bit of news that came out at the end
(32:15):
of the press conference, and I don't think we've hardly
even mentioned it, if at all, on this program. Milanya
Trump wrote a letter that Trump hand delivered to Vladimir Putin,
calling on Putin to end the war and stop the
murder suffering that is going on in Europe. That matters
(32:35):
on some level because Milania Trump buck you may remember
the exact country was it. She was from the Czech
Republic area. If I remember, where's.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Milanias from Slovenia.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Slovenia, so she is familiar as someone who was born
and raised in that region in some way, with the
influence of Russia and all of those all of those
angles associated with it. Just now, Zolenski's wife has written
(33:08):
a letter to Milanya, thanking her, reportedly for trying to
do whatever she can to stop the war, and Zolensky
is going to deliver that letter from his wife to Milanya.
Trump I mentioned that only in the context of personal
relationships is everything to Trump, and you can argue, Hey,
(33:31):
that shouldn't be the case. There's huge state departments. Trump
wants to look in the eye of someone else and
have a handshake, agreement or a relationship. It seems to me,
Buck that the relationship between Trump and Zolensky is actually
much stronger now than it was back in Was it
(33:54):
February when they had the Oval Office blow up? If
I remember correctly, I think it was February they had
that iconic head to head meeting after the Pope died
in Rome in the Vatican City, And it seems like
their relationships have been improving since. Uh Slovenia by the
(34:16):
way for those of you who are not geographic experts,
and I would put myself firmly in this category. Slovenia
was a part of Yugoslavia prior to becoming an independent
nation in nineteen ninety one. Just fyi, okay, let me
play some of these cuts that all just came out
in the last.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Hour or so. Let's see.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Trump says there could be a trilateral meeting right off
the top here cut thirty two.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Let's listen.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Yeah, we're gonna have a meeting.
Speaker 8 (34:47):
I think, well, if everything works out well today, we'll
have a trilad and I think there will be a
reasonable chance of ending the world when we do that.
Speaker 9 (34:55):
Is this the end of the road for American support
today's meeting, deal or no deal.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
I can never say that. It's never the end of
the word. People are being killed and we want to
stop that, so I would not say it's the end
of the road. No, I think we have a good
chance of doing it.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
It's been almost.
Speaker 8 (35:14):
Four years now that a lot of people were killed
last week, A lot of people last week. I mean
millions of people killed, but a lot of people last
week for whatever reason, a big number, a lot of
soldiers both on both sides, and I know the president,
I know myself, and I believe Vladimir Putin wants to
see it ended.
Speaker 7 (35:33):
And as you never put on Friday to say presidential
as he here, as you listen to Russia and Ukraine,
which side has the better car us.
Speaker 8 (35:42):
Well, I don't want to say that. I'm just going
to I'm just here to be Look, this isn't my war.
This is Joe Biden's war. He's the one that.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Had a lot to do with this happening.
Speaker 8 (35:52):
And we want to get it ended, and we wanted
to end good for everybody.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
We wanted to end good. The people of Ukraine have
suffered incredibly.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Okay, let me hit you with a couple of others here, buck,
and then we'll break down what we think the significance
is here. Cut thirty seven. Trump says we want a
long term piece. We're not looking for a short term deal.
I think that's important. Cut thirty seven.
Speaker 8 (36:15):
We're going to work with Ukraine, We're going to work
with everybody, and we're going to make sure that if
this piece, the piece is going to stay long term.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
This is very longfam.
Speaker 8 (36:24):
We're not talking about a two year piece and then
we end up in this mess again. We're going to
make sure that everything's could. We'll work with Russia, We're
going to work with Ukraine. We're going to make sure
it works.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
And I think if we can get to piece, it's
going to work. I have no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Okay, So Buck and let me play one more time,
because I think this is probably the most newsworthy element.
Trump not ruling out sending American troops to Ukraine. This
is cut thirty four. I think that was the biggest
news that came out of this pres avaiability in the
Oval Office.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Cut thirty four.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
Just talked about security guarantees, quit involved. US troops would
be ruled that out in the future. Will let you
know that maybe later today.
Speaker 8 (37:06):
We're meeting with seven great leaders of great countries also and.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
We'll be talking about that.
Speaker 8 (37:12):
They'll all be involved, but there'll be a lot of uh,
there'll be a lot of help when it comes to security.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
There's gonna be a lot of help. It's going to
be good.
Speaker 8 (37:20):
They are a fresh line of defense because they're there,
they're Europe.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
But we're gonna help them out. Also, we'll be involved.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Okay, Yeah, that's the big that's the biggest thing of
all here, the land issue, the swaps. You get this.
I get that it's gonna be painful for Ukraine because
they don't think they should lose anything to Russian aggression.
But the realities are what they are right now, and
that I think you can get to a negotiated settlement
(37:51):
right now. The challenge is how does that settlement endure,
and how does it endure specifically without US either guarantee
of security, meaning we would send in actual military to
help repulse another Russian I'm just laying it out everybody,
(38:11):
this is where we are. I'm not advocating for it.
I'm talking about what it would mean. I think we
can all see what it would mean, or as Clay
was laying it out before, the possibility of a US
military presence in Ukraine as the ultimate guaranteur of peace
in the region, because you know, if you have Russian
(38:33):
tanks rolling over and shooting at Americans, that's going to
mean immediately we're involved. But I understand what that also means.
Russia thousands of nukes, major military, first world, first world military,
if not a first world economy. Uh, and it's it's
a challenge. I wonder how now the Trump has to
be clear. Trump hasn't said that's happening. Maybe that doesn't happen.
(38:56):
But we are trying to think here through Clay what
does it get. You know, guarantee is a very powerful word.
What is a guarantee acceptable to Ukraine at this point
that does not involve a clear US maybe an EU
contingent instead. But I don't see how you get around that.
(39:17):
I think there's so many ways to tiptoe up.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
First of all, when we did the mineral rights agreement,
it is a backdoor acknowledgment that will defend American interest
in Ukraine. That's why Ukraine wanted to do the deal.
It wasn't talked about a lot. But when you say, hey,
America owns fifty percent of this mine effectively, then you
are saying we're not gonna let somebody come in and
(39:41):
take away American property. So it is a backdoor defense.
Part of me wonders whether they're gonna get really skillful
in the way that this is drafted. Maybe Europe is
providing some secondary and maybe let me use my vocabulary. Well,
here the American are the tertiary troops and so you
(40:03):
have think about this, and again this is just me
kind of sketching out. You have the Ukrainian troops on
the front line, and Ukraine is staring right across at
Russia in some sort of newly designed battlefield setup that
is not dissimilar to what we have in Korea. In
secondary support, you have so called European peace peace keeping
(40:25):
troops that are basically a secondary line of defense further back,
maybe it's fifty miles, sixty miles, whatever you want to do,
but do have the ability to move to the front
rapidly as needed. Then in a third tier, in a
tertiary level, you have American troops on the ground, protecting,
securing all of the economic interests of the United States.
(40:50):
But that is all the way back, maybe in Kiev,
right very far from the front lines. Is that an
acceptable backdoor ish NATO Article five protection without officially being it,
meaning Russia has to invade in order for those troops
to get called in from line two in line three.
(41:11):
And then the other part of this buck that I
wonder about is how much does Trump just trust that
Putin's not going to test him? That matters, but only
for the next three years. Oh, because if you suddenly
had President Kamala Harris, do you feel comfortable that Putin?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Who knows?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Again, Putin can play the long game a bit here,
because he's got twenty years in theory to still be president,
and he knows at some point sadly in those twenty years,
maybe the United States has Joe Biden two point zero
and he takes advantage of that.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yes, I mean, we all know Kamala is not going
to run again, Clay. But besides that point, if it's
President Newsom or President Kamala Harris, that will change the
calculation for Vladimir Putin, no question about it. I do
think though, that we're in a situation where Trump is
he's going to be negotiating and this thing, and he
(42:05):
might have to come out and tell the Magabase, hey, guys,
this is the only way to get this done, or
else this thing grinds on forever, and then there's a
greater risk of possible American Russian direct conflict. And then
of course there's always that specter in the background of
some kind of a tactical nuclear exchange on the front lines.
(42:26):
Now nobody wants that. I hope it doesn't come to
US troops as the guarantee. I'm just trying to think
of what this was why we talked about the sanctions thing.
Anything that is, oh, we're gonna make Russia's economy beg
for mercy is not a guarantee of Ukrainian security. That's
what we've already seen. Oka There is nothing that they
(42:50):
can promise on the economic warfare front against Russia that
would make any savvy Ukrainian think that that's actually a guarantee.
It's a stumbling block to Russian aggression at best. So
with that, it's got to be military. I'm also reminded
here of Clay of how right Trump was all along,
(43:11):
even in his first term, about how NATO needs to
step up, NATO needs to spend more in its defense,
Europe needs to stop being a bunch of free riders.
EU is the largest economy in the world. Everybody, the
EU is the largest economy in the world, you know,
the Eurozone. Now, obviously it's a lot of different countries
put together, but why is America by far the biggest
(43:31):
contributor to this in materiel And why isn't you know,
why isn't Europe stepping up and realizing you know, all
those fancy social welfare states you got running, guys, it's
only because of the American security guarantee you've been able
to get that going.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
And I thought part of the press conference that was
actually interesting and illuminating in that aspect was Trump pointing
out NATO spending has gotten to basically five percent or
they have that target.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Now.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
The way that this is structured since Trump came into
office is we sell weapons to NATO, and then NATO
then provides those weapons to Ukraine. In some way, it
sounded like that was the way that he was describing it.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
This is the role of Pakistan, by the way, in
the Soviet Afghan War and the Pakistani ISI Interservices intelligence agency,
they were the cutouts for us to get the stingers
and the other weaponry. You know, you guys remember Charlie
Wilson's war to bring that up again, But it was
the Pakistani intelligence services because they could operate in that region. Obviously,
(44:30):
the Europeans are already in country and can pass along
whenever we need them to pass along. I would also
point this out, President Trump has got such a connection
with his base and with the Republican Party in general.
I think that a lot of people just trust him
to get a deal done, and I think that gives
him the flexibility to do some things that other Republican
(44:54):
leaders couldn't.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
I think people trust Trump to keep us out of war.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
I really do, and I do think that that gives
him negotiating leverage to try to get a deal done.
The thing that Russia wants, again, I think is always
so important. What do the people want? Russia wants land,
Ukraine wants security. That's their number one goal. We can
provide some of that security, but how is it structured
(45:19):
is the key, and that's the devil in the details,
so to speak.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
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Speaker 1 (46:54):
News you can count on and some laughs too. Clay,
Travis and Bucks.
Speaker 7 (47:00):
Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck guys. Just a quick
cleanup on Aisle Buck here. Sorry, I got a stat
wrong and it's an important one, so maya Kulpa give
me a code read. At one point in the twenty
first century, the EU had a larger economy than the US.
I think was around two thousand and eight. The team
just pulled up all the numbers.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
But we have.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Absolutely smoked the EU over the last fifteen years or
so in terms of GDP growth. So we're at about
what is it like, we're the day They all the
European countries combined are about twenty trillion. We're about thirty trillion.
So sorry, sorry, sorry. Their population is larger than ours.
They've got about four hundred and fifty million. We've got
about three hundred and thirty depending on how you want
(47:45):
to count the illegals. But you know, the whole other thing.
But so they have a bigger population manpower. But in
terms of you know, we're talking about the Ukraine situation,
but in terms of material monetary resources. What an astonishing
stat in favor of the US approach of things. By
the way, it's not even close. Over the last fifteen
years we have absolutely It turns out working twenty hours
(48:07):
a week and like three days a week, and you know,
having eight weeks off a year doesn't make you as
rich as what Americans do, So Maya coulp all VIPs.
I'm sorry, Buck is fallible on both serving and stats,
although the serve game is not over yet. Let's take
our friend Frank Gaffney here. Frank Gaffney was President Reagan's
Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy. Also served
(48:31):
as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Nuclear Forces
and Arms Control policy. Frank, appreciate you being here. I'm
sure you saw what's going on in that Trump White
House in that meeting. Can we just dive into the
security guarantee part, because that's the sticky situation that seems
to be emerging right now. What do you make of it?
Speaker 13 (48:52):
Well, it's sticky all the way around, just the best
I can tell. On the one hand, I'm incredulous that
Vladimir Putin will actually accept it. I'm also somewhat surprised
that President Trump apparently has in some form or another.
And you know, whether it's enough to persuade the Ukrainians
(49:17):
to relinquished territory that they've lost, to be frank, but
nonetheless seek to recover, remains very much to be seen.
So it is what the Brits would call, I think
a sticky wicket in the cricket gain.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Frank.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
It seems that basically this is boiled down to Russia's
going to demand territory, Ukraine's going to demand security guarantees.
I mean that seems to be the primary goal of
each side at this point. How does this resolve itself?
Is there any parallel in the Cold War? The analogy
we've been using is Korea. You have a demilitarized zone.
(49:57):
It's been a tenuous piece, but it now has lasted
for seventy five some odd years. Ish, is there any
precedent there? How would you solve this this situation if
you were given the ability to act as mediator, Well, I.
Speaker 13 (50:14):
Would do one thing that, as far as I can tell,
is not on the table or even being discussed, and
that is I would hold the Chinese Communist Party accountable
for the fix that we're in at the moment. I
believe that they Jijing thing specifically green lighted the invasion
of Iraq, excued me out of Ukraine, and in so
(50:38):
doing has been ever since the enabler of this war.
I think they did it for selfish reasons. I believe
that it is to distract the United States and the Europeans,
to tie us down to bleed us in terms of
military equipment and financial means, and that all serves the
(51:02):
purpose China for its own agenda out in the Pacific.
So I would start by saying, those guys have to
be held accountable for what's being done here, and without that,
I honestly am not sure that the Russians will agree
to anything. I think as long as the Chinese believe,
as they've indicated, that this war should continue, the much
(51:24):
junior partner in this so called no limits partnership name
with Vladimir Putin is probably going to be heating his
bosses in Beijing. So it's a challenge that is not
currently being addressed, as I said, and I think that
until it does, it's not clear to me that any
(51:44):
of these negotiations amount the bunch.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
So we're still hoping for breakthrough breakthroughs here, Frank, and
we're going to get more details about where the Ukrainian
side comes down on this. It seems like there's a
willingness for Zelensky to sit down with Putin, which is
certainly a necessary precondition for the trilateral trilateral discussion, if
not trilatal agreement to come out of this. What, though,
(52:12):
do you think what can Trump do to pressure the
Russians to actually be willing to end this thing? Because
that's one thing that's getting a lot of attention right now.
As this is going on, as these discussions are happening,
and Trump was saying it in the Oval Office, the
Russians are escalating their offensive. The Russians are trying to
run up more casualties on the Ukrainian side as we're
(52:34):
supposed to see conversations about peace. So do you think
all the economic levers have been pulled? How can Trump
get through to Putin that he won't just continue to
get more if he keeps fighting.
Speaker 13 (52:47):
Well again, Trump has placed secondary sanctions on India for
buying Russian oil at this kount of Prisis. The Chinese
are also doing that, and I think if Trump wants
to bring real pressure to bear on Putin. Put those
secondary sanctions on China, and I think you'll see that
(53:08):
there's probably a willingness to get to an agreement that
doesn't exist at the moment. That's what I would do.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
How do you preserve Okay, let's pretend that Ukraine, because
this is where I do think Zolensky has a maybe
the most important argument. Let's say that he says, Okay,
we're going to give you some of the territory that
you have invaded that we don't think you deserve. But
you took this land, and we're going to draw a
new border. But based on the way Putin has behaved
(53:37):
over the last ten years, how do you, if you're Zolensky,
knowing that Trump only has three and a half years
left in office, keep any kind of security apparatus or
faith in this deal when Putin has shown that he
will not abide by any sort of agreement not to
(53:59):
invade again, meaning as soon as Trump leaves and you
end up with another week democrat in office, Putin tries
to take another bite at the apple. In other words,
I'm actually sympathetic to Zelenski. The security guarantee seem to
be to me, the most important thing for Ukraine. I
don't understand how you change that dynamic.
Speaker 13 (54:20):
I'm not sure you can again, unless there is some
disincentive to putin that is not evident at the moment.
To the contrary, I think that, but he is signaling
in his behavior to date for sure, and arguably in
some of his posturing at the moment, is he's leaving
(54:41):
his options open, and that means that a security guarantee
is necessary. I'm just not sure that the United States
has the appetite for it, and if it does, whether
it will be broadly, you know, supported by the American people,
who has tucked ourselves into a position where a lot
of folks, particularly in the Maga community, are persuaded that
(55:06):
Ukraine's not our problem and we certainly don't want to
put American boots or lives on the line to protect it.
I like you, I think, have some sympathy for the
argument that the Ukrainians are making, especially because back in
ninety four we gave them security guarantees if they gave
up nuclear weapons and that went over the side, and
(55:27):
they're rightfully, I think, very reluctant to buy that pig
in a poke.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Again, what do you make.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Of the argument that has been out there among some
of the more hawkish Ukraine supporters in this country that
if Putin isn't stopped definitively in Ukraine, he will go
into other countries in Europe. Because you're hearing less of
that right now, because I think everyone's focused on this
(55:54):
current negotiation. But that has certainly been something that people
have been saying Aboutsh's intentions.
Speaker 13 (56:02):
I think that is Putin's intention. He's made no secret
that he thinks the greatest disaster of the twentieth century
was the fall of the old Soviet Union. I think
he seeks to, if not re establish it fully than
some fashion of the Russian Empire, and that means bites
of parts of Europe again, and I had to belabor
(56:25):
this point, but I think in some measure it's a
function of whether he's going to have the backing and
support of China to do such a thing. And unless
we get serious about dissuading the Chinese from thinking that
more chaos, what I call strategic arson, is something that
they can pursue with impunity, you're going to find, I
(56:49):
think Putin believing that he can in fact, similarly act
with impunity if not immediately down the road.
Speaker 3 (56:58):
Okay, so let's say we don't get any sub and
at all, we're coming up on the winter. Typically things
kind of grind to a halt just based on the
difficulties in moving men and material based on.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
The weather there. How long would this go on?
Speaker 3 (57:13):
In your mind, if both sides just continue basically on
the trajectory were on right now.
Speaker 13 (57:22):
Well, something that's changed in the course of this war
is that it's not all about you know, the movement
of mechanized divisions. That gets very tricky in the winter time,
especially the muddy periods at the beginning and end of it.
(57:43):
But what I think you're going to be seeing more
of is more attacks of rockets and drones. Especially the
war can continue. That is a question of resources on
the part of the Ukrainians. It's particularly human resources, and
seemingly the Russians being bankrolled by the Chinese again and
(58:06):
getting all kinds of equipment for the war from Iran.
If it's well, as they're still in power there, I
hope that that will be something else that we attend
to and bring to a close.
Speaker 2 (58:19):
Rank a god with Reagan, you were privy to high
level discussions of this nature. You know what the feel
is like, what the tone is like when things are
progressing versus when things are stalling. How would you gauge
your optimism at what we've seen so far today, added
to what we saw Friday in Alaska.
Speaker 13 (58:41):
I think it's a work in progress. And my guess
is that what we're going to see more of is
posturing and a decision that there's more meetings to be had.
So I think that this is not yet ripe for
a conclusion. I hope I'm wrong, but I think there
are pieces of this that haven't yet been addressed, as
I say, and that means this will continue at the
(59:03):
talking stage, I suppose, as well as the warring stage
while the talking goes on.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
Thank you, Frank, We appreciate the time and you coming
on and sharing your expertise with.
Speaker 13 (59:12):
Us, happy to do it. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (59:15):
Look, it's football season, and I know people maybe need
a little bit of an uplift as there's been some
some dour things out there on the global stage, and
one of the best things to just kind of kick back,
have a beer is football. And I know my son's
football season kicks off on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
That is high school football. But a lot of you out.
Speaker 3 (59:38):
There are gearing up too, whether it's the NFL, whether
it's college football. And our friends at prize Picks right
now in forty plus states, including California, including Texas, including Florida,
we're gonna make you, hopefully I'll have a lot more
fun with football than you otherwise would. Every week we're
going to give you picks once the season gets rolling.
Prizepicks dot com. Code Clay put in five dollars right now,
(01:00:01):
you get fifty dollars to just make football a little
bit more fun than it already is. This is America sport.
All of you pretty much are going to be watching
at some point in time. Go get hooked up now.
Forty plus states, thirteen million players, pricepicks dot com. My
name Clay, that's Clay. For fifty dollars. When you play
(01:00:22):
five dollars, that's pricepicks dot com, my name Clay.
Speaker 7 (01:00:26):
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