August 18, 2025 • 36 mins
In Hour 3 of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, the hosts dive deep into the breaking news from the White House, where President Donald Trump met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky amid a historic summit involving top European leaders and NATO officials. This hour focuses on the high-stakes negotiations to end the Russia-Ukraine war, with Trump positioning himself as a mediator and signaling the possibility of a trilateral meeting with Vladimir Putin.
Key highlights include Trump’s insistence on a long-term peace agreement, not just a short-term ceasefire, and his refusal to rule out U.S. troop involvement in Ukraine as part of potential security guarantees. The discussion explores the complexities of structuring a durable peace deal, comparing possible arrangements to the Korean DMZ model, with Ukrainian forces on the front line, European peacekeepers in secondary positions, and U.S. forces in a tertiary role safeguarding American economic interests.
The hosts analyze NATO’s role, Trump’s push for increased European defense spending, and the leverage his strong connection with the Republican base gives him in negotiations. They also examine the geopolitical risks, including the possibility of direct U.S.-Russia conflict, the role of China in enabling the war, and the need for secondary sanctions on nations like China and India buying Russian oil.
Former Reagan-era defense official Frank Gaffney Jr. joins the conversation, offering insights on why security guarantees for Ukraine are critical yet challenging, the likelihood of Putin’s compliance, and the strategic necessity of holding China accountable. The hour also touches on historical parallels, the future of NATO, and the long-term implications for global security.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. We are rolling through
the Monday edition of the program and it is a
super newsworthy one. We just got finished with an Oval
Office meeting between Trump and Zelensky, and I would say
(00:22):
as we work towards the idea of a trilateral meeting,
Trump is effectively playing the role of mediator. There are
also probably more European leaders in the White House at
one moment than we've almost ever seen before. I mean,
you've got the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, England, the
(00:46):
head of NATO, basically everyone arrayed there for a meeting
to discuss the future of the Ukraine Russia conflict. And
I do think the meeting that we just saw between
Trump and Zolensky was light years, light years different than
(01:06):
the last time we saw Zolensky in the Oval Office
when they were negotiating the so called Mineral Rights agreement.
And all of this is moving in rapid speed. One
bit of news that came out at the end of
the press conference, and I don't think we've hardly even
mentioned it, if at all, on this program. Milania Trump
(01:27):
wrote a letter that Trump hand delivered to Vladimir Putin,
calling on Putin to end the war and stop the
murder suffering that is going on in Europe. That matters
on some level because Milania Trump, Buck, you may remember
the exact country was it. She was from the Czech
(01:48):
Republic area. If I remember, where is Milania's from, Slovenia. Slovenia,
So she is familiar as someone who was born and
raised in in that region in some way, with the
influence of Russia and all of those all of those
angles associated with it. Just now, Zolenski's wife has written
(02:13):
a letter to Milanya, thanking her reportedly for trying to
do whatever she can to stop the war, and Zolensky
is going to deliver that letter from his wife to Milanya. Trump.
I mentioned that only in the context of personal relationships
is everything to Trump, and you can argue, Hey, that
(02:36):
shouldn't be the case. There's huge state departments. Trump wants
to look in the eye of someone else and have
a handshake, agreement, or a relationship. It seems to me, Buck,
that the relationship between Trump and Zolensky is actually much
stronger now than it was back in was it February
(03:00):
when they had the Oval Office blow up? If I
remember correctly, I think it was February they had that
iconic head to head meeting after the Pope died in
Rome in the Vatican City, and it seems like their
relationships have been improving since. Slovenia, by the way, for
(03:22):
those of you who are not geographic experts, and I
would put myself firmly in this category, Slovenia was a
part of Yugoslavia prior to becoming an independent nation in
nineteen ninety one. Just fyi, okay, let me play some
of these cuts that all just came out in the
last hour or so. Let's see. Trump says there could
(03:45):
be a trilateral meeting right off the top here cut
thirty two. Let's listen.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, we're gonna have a meeting. I think if everything
works out well today, we'll have a trilad and I
think there will be a reasonable chance of ending the
world when we do that.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Is this the end of the road for American support
or where Frank is Today's meeting deal or no deal?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I can never say that. It's never the end of
the people are being killed and we want to stop that,
So I would not say it's the end of the road. No,
I think we have a good chance of doing it.
It's been almost four years now that a lot of
people were killed last week, A lot of people last week.
I mean millions of people killed, but a lot of
people last week for whatever reason, a big number, a
(04:29):
lot of soldiers, both on both sides. And I know
the president, I know myself, and I believe Vladimir Putin
wants to see it ended.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And as you know on Friday, so you've got President
Leslie here, as you listen to Russia and Ukraine, which
side has the better to carus?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, I don't want to say that. I'm just going
to I'm just here to be Look, this isn't my war.
This is Joe Biden's war. He's the one that had
a lot to do with this happening. And we want
to get it ended, and we wanted to and good
for everybody we wanted to end.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Good.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The people of Ukraine have suffered incredibly.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Okay, let me hit you with a couple of others here, buck,
and then we'll break down what we think the significance is.
Here cut thirty seven. Trump says we want a long
term piece. We're not looking for a short term deal.
I think that's important. Cut thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
We're going to work with Ukraine, We're going to work
with everybody, and we're going to make sure that if
this piece, the piece is going to stay long term.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
This is very long term.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We're not talking about a two year piece and then
we end up in this mess again. We're going to
make sure that everything's good. We'll work with Russia, We're
going to work with Ukraine. We're going to make sure
it works. And I think if we can get to piece,
it's going to work. I have no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Okay, So Buck and let me play one more time,
because I think this is probably the most newsworthy element.
Trump not ruling out sending American troops to Ukraine. This
is cut thirty four. I think that was the biggest
news that came out of this press availability in the
Oval Office. Cut thirty four. Your teams talked about security guarantees.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Could that involve the US troops would be ruled that
out in the future.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Will let you know that maybe later today we're meeting
with seven great leaders of great countries also, and we'll
be talking about that they'll all be involved, but there'll
be a lot of uh, there'll be a lot of help.
When it comes to security, there's gonna be a lot
of help. It's going to be good. They are a
first line of defense because they're there, they're Europe, but
(06:30):
we're gonna help them out. Also, we'll be involved.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Okay, Yeah, that's the big that's the biggest thing of
all here, the land issue, the swaps.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
You get this.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
I get that it's gonna be painful for Ukraine because
they don't think they should lose anything to Russian aggression.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
But the realities are what they are right.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Now, and that I think you can get to a
negotiated settlement right now. The challenge is how does that
settlement in and how to is it endure, specifically without
US either guarantee of security, meaning we would send in
(07:11):
actual military to help repulse another Russian I'm just laying
it out everybody, this is where we are. I'm not
advocating for it. I'm talking about what it would mean.
I think we can all see what it would mean. Or,
as Clay was laying it out before, the possibility of
a US military presence in Ukraine as the ultimate guaranteur of.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Peace in the region.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Uh, because you know, if you have Russian tanks rolling
over and shooting at Americans. Uh, that's going to mean
immediately we're involved. But I understand what that also means
Russia thousands of nukes, major military, first world, first world military,
if not a first world economy.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
And it's it's a challenge. I wonder how now the
Trump has to be clear. Trump hasn't said that's happening.
Maybe that doesn't happen. But we are trying to think
here through Clay. What is a guarantee is a very
powerful word. What is a guarantee acceptable to Ukraine at
this point that does not involve a clear US maybe
(08:16):
an EU contingent instead. But I don't see how you
get around that. I think there's so many ways to
tiptoe up.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
First of all, when we did the mineral rights agreement,
it is a backdoor acknowledgment that will defend American interest
in Ukraine. That's why Ukraine wanted to do the deal.
It wasn't talked about a lot. But when you say, hey,
America owns fifty percent of this mine effectively, then you
are saying we're not going to let somebody come in
(08:45):
and take away American property. So it is a backdoor defense.
Part of me wonders whether they're going to get really
skillful in the way that this is drafted. Maybe Europe
is providing some secondary and maybe let me use my vocabulary. Well,
here the Americans are the tertiary troops, and so you
(09:08):
have think about this, and again this is just me
kind of sketching out. You have the Ukrainian troops on
the front line, and Ukraine is staring right across at
Russia in some sort of newly designed battlefield setup that
is not dissimilar to what we have in Korea. In
secondary support, you have so called European peace peace keeping
(09:30):
troops that are basically a secondary line of defense further back,
maybe it's fifty miles, sixty miles, whatever you want to do,
but do have the ability to move to the front
rapidly as needed. Then in a third tier, in a
tertiary level, you have American troops on the ground, protecting,
securing all of the economic interests of the United States.
(09:55):
But that is all the way back, maybe in Kiev,
right very far from the front line. Is that an
acceptable backdoor ish NATO Article five protection without officially being it,
meaning Russia has to invade in order for those troops
to get called in from line two in line three.
(10:16):
And then the other part of this buck that I
wonder about is how much does Trump just trust that
Putin's not going to test him? That matters, but only
for the next three years. Oh, because if you suddenly
had President Kamala Harris, do you feel comfortable that Putin?
Who knows again, Putin can play the long game a
(10:37):
bit here, because he's got twenty years in theory to
still be president, and he knows at some point sadly
in those twenty years, maybe the United States has Joe
Biden two point zero and he takes advantage of that.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yes, I mean, we all know Kamala is not going
to run again, Clay, But besides that point, if it's
President Newsom or President Kamala Harris, that will change the
calculation for Vladimir Putin, no question about it. I do
think though, that we're in a situation where Trump is
he's going to be negotiating and this thing, and he
(11:10):
might have to come out and tell the magabase, Hey, guys,
this is the only way to get this done or else,
This thing grinds on forever, and then there's a greater
risk of possible American Russian direct conflict. And then of
course there's always that specter in the background of some
kind of a tactical nuclear exchange on the front lines.
(11:31):
Now nobody wants that. I hope it doesn't come to
US troops as the guarantee. I'm just trying to think
of what this was why we talked about the sanctions thing.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Anything that is, oh, we're going.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
To make Russia's economy beg for mercy is not a
guarantee of Ukrainian security. That's what we've already seen. Okay,
there is nothing that they can promise on the economic
warfare front against Russia that would make any savvy Ukrainian
think that that's actually a guarantee. It's a stumbling block
(12:07):
to Russian aggression at best. So with that, it's got
to be military. I'm also reminded here of Clay of
how right Trump was all along, even in his first term,
about how NATO needs to step up, NATO needs to
spend more in its defense, Europe needs to stop being
a bunch of free riders. EU is the largest economy
in the world.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Everybody.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
The EU is the largest economy in the world, you know,
the Eurozone. Now, obviously it's a lot of different countries
put together, but why is America by far the biggest
contributor to this in materiel? And why isn't you know,
why isn't Europe stepping up and realizing, you know, all
those fancy social welfare states you got running, guys, it's
(12:47):
only because the American security guarantee You've been able to
get that going.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And I thought part of the press conference that was
actually interesting and illuminating in that aspect was Trump pointing
out NATO spending has gotten to basically five percent or
they have that target. Now, the way that this is
structured since Trump came into office is we sell weapons
to NATO, and then NATO then provides those weapons to Ukraine.
(13:12):
In some way, it sounded like that was the way
that he was describing it.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
This is the role of Pakistan, by the way, in
the Soviet Afghan War and the Pakistani ISI Interservices Intelligence Agency,
they were the cutouts for us to get the stingers
and the other weaponry. You know, you guys, remember Charlie
Wilson's War to bring that up again, But it was
the Pakistani intelligence services because they could operate in that region. Obviously,
(13:35):
the Europeans are already in country and can pass along
whatever we need them to pass along.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I would also point this out. President Trump has got
such a connection with his base and with the Republican
Party in general. I think that a lot of people
just trust him to get a deal done, and I
think that gives him the flexibility to do some things
that other Republican leaders couldn't. I think people trust Trump
(14:02):
to keep us out of war. I really do, and
I do think that that gives him negotiating leverage to
try to get a deal done. The thing that Russia
wants again, I think is always so important. What do
the people want? Russia wants land, Ukraine wants security. That's
their number one goal. We can provide some of that security,
(14:22):
but how is it structured is the key, and that's
the devil in the details, so to speak.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
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Speaker 1 (15:59):
News if you can count on, and some laughs too. Clay,
Travis and Bucks find them on the free iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back
into Clay and Bucks.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
So the biggest thing right now in this huge summit
at the White House with European leaders and Vladimir Zelenski
of Volosmir Zelenski of Ukraine is the possibility of US
security guarantee for an end of the Ukraine War. This
we're not just talking ceasefire here, We're talking durable peace.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
That's the goal. That's the goal.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Well they get there, we don't know, But Clay, another
part of this is Zelenski. So the security guarantee, I
think is the biggest question. We'll talk to Frank Gaffney
about that here. Momentarily, he was a high stakes negotiator
for the Reagan administration. I know many of youre familiar
with Frank, but we'll talk to him about this.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Clay.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
The other thing, though, is Zelenski saying in the Oval office. Yeah,
I'll sit down with Putin. Let's go, let's have this conversation.
Let's see where we are. So we're at at least
getting more data or at least moving this thing. The
process is moving. The result is what is uncertain. But
you've got to have that process to get to the
result you want.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Until you get these individuals sitting down in some sort
of agreement that they might in any way into the conflict,
you can't into conflict, so you have to meet with
them sooner or later. And it does seem like there's
a good chance that we're gonna get Trump in the
role of mediator, maybe by the end of the week,
for Zelensky and Putin face to face. So we will
(17:34):
give you the absolute latest on that. How does this end?
And again, the security guarantees versus the land being given
up seems to be the primary concern of both sides,
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Speaker 4 (18:55):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck guys. Just a quick
cleanup on ale buck here. Sorry I got that wrong,
and it's an important one, so maya Kulpa give me
a code read. At one point in the twenty first century,
the EU had a larger economy than the US. I
think was around two thousand and eight. The team just
pulled up all the numbers.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
But we have.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Absolutely smoked the EU over the last fifteen years or
so in terms of GDP growth. So we're at about
what is it like, we're the day They all the
European countries combined are about twenty trillion. We're about thirty trillion.
So sorry, sorry, sorry. Their population is larger than ours.
They've got about four hundred and fifty million. We've got
about three hundred and thirty depending on how you want
(19:36):
to count the illegals. But you know, it's the whole
other thing. But so they have a bigger population manpower.
But in terms of you know, we're talking about the
Ukraine situation, but in terms of material monetary resources. What
an astonishing stat in favor of the US approach of things.
By the way, it's not even close. Over the last
fifteen years, we have absolutely it turns out, working twenty
(19:58):
hours a week and like three days a week. And
you know, having eight weeks off a year doesn't make
you as rich as what Americans do, So Maya coulp
all VIPs. I'm sorry, Buck is fallible on both serving
and stats, although the serve game is not over yet.
Let's take our friend Frank Gaffney here. Frank Gaffney was
President Reagan's Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy.
(20:21):
Also served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
Nuclear Forces and Arms Controlled Policy.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Frank, appreciate you being here.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I'm sure you saw what's going on in that Trump
White House in that meeting. Can we just dive into
the security guarantee part, because that's the sticky situation that
seems to be emerging right now.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
What do you make of it?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Well, it's sticky all the way around, as best I
can tell. On the one hand, I'm incredulous that Vladimir
Putin will actually accept it. I'm also somewhat surprised that
President Trump apparently had in some form or another. And
(21:03):
you know, whether it's enough to persuade the Ukrainians to
relinquished territory that they've lost, to be Frank, but nonetheless,
seek to recover remains very much to be seen. So
it is what Britz would call, I think a sticky
wicket in the cricket.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Gain Frank, it seems that basically this is boiled down
to Russia's going to demand territory, Ukraine's going to demand
security guarantees. I mean that seems to be the primary
goal of each side at this point. How does this
resolve itself? Is there any parallel in the Cold War?
The analogy we've been using is Korea. You have a
(21:47):
demilitarized zone. It's been a tenuous piece, but it now
has lasted for seventy five some odd years. Ish, is
there any precedent there? How would you solve this this situation?
If you were given the ability to act as mediator, well.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I would do one thing that, as far as I
can tell, is not on the table or even being discussed,
and that is I would hold the Chinese Communist Party
accountable for the fix that we're in at the moment.
I believe that they Jijing things specifically green lighted the
invasion of Iraq, exue me out of Ukraine, and in
(22:29):
so doing has been ever since the enabler of this war.
I think they did it for selfish reasons. I believe
that it is to distract the United States and the Europeans,
to tie us down, to bleed us in terms of
military equipment and financial means, and that all serves the
(22:53):
purpose China for its own agenda on the Pacific. So
I would start by saying, those guys have to be
held accountable for what's being done here, and without that,
I honestly am not sure that the Russians will agree
to anything. I think as long as the Chinese believe,
as they've indicated, that this war should continue, the much
(23:15):
junior partner in this so called no limits partnership name
with Vladimir Putin is probably going to be heating his
bosses in Beijing. So it's a challenge that is not
currently being addressed, as I said, and I think that
until it does, it's not clear to me that any
(23:35):
of these negotiations about the bunch.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
So we're still hoping for breakthrough. Breakthroughs yere Frank, and
we're going to get more details about where the Ukrainian
side comes down on this. It seems like there's a
willingness for Zelensky to sit down with Putin, which is
certainly a necessary precondition for the trilateral Trilottle discussion, if
not trilatal agreement to come out of this. What, though,
(24:03):
do you think what can Trump do to pressure the
Russians to actually be willing to end this thing, Because
that's one thing that's getting a lot of attention right now.
As this is going on, as these discussions are happening,
and Trump was saying it in the Oval Office, the
Russians are escalating their offensive. The Russians are trying to
run up more casualties on the Ukrainian side as we're
(24:24):
supposed to see conversations about peace. So do you think
all the economic levers have been pulled? How can Trump
get through to Putin that he won't just continue to
get more if he keeps fighting.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Well again, Trump has placed secondary sanctions on India for
buying Russian oil at this kount of Prisis. The Chinese
are also doing that, and I think if Trump wants
to bring real pressure to bear on Putin, put those
secondary sanctions on China and I think you'll see that
(24:59):
there's prob a willingness to get to an agreement that
doesn't exist at the moment, That's what I would do.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
How do you preserve Okay, let's pretend that Ukraine, because
this is where I do think Zelensky has a maybe
the most important argument. Let's say that he says, Okay,
we're going to give you some of the territory that
you have invaded that we don't think you deserve. But
you took this land, and we're going to draw a
new border. But based on the way Putin has behaved
(25:28):
over the last ten years, how do you, if you're Zolensky,
knowing that Trump only has three and a half years
left in office, keep any kind of security apparatus or
faith in this deal when Putin has shown that he
will not abide by any sort of agreement not to
(25:50):
invade again, meaning as soon as Trump leaves and you
end up with another week democrat in office, Putin tries
to take another bite at the apple. In other words,
I'm actually sympathetic to Zelenski. The security guarantee seem to
be to me, the most important thing for Ukraine. I
don't understand how you change that dynamic.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I'm not sure you can again unless there is some
disincentive to buten that is not evident at the moment.
To the contrary, I think that what he is signaling
in his behavior to date, for sure, and arguably in
some of his posturing at the moment, is he's leaving
(26:32):
his options open, and that means that a security guarantee
is necessary. I'm just not sure that the United States
has the appetite for it, and if it does, whether
it will be broadly supported by the American people, who
we've tucked ourselves into a position where a lot of folks,
(26:53):
particularly in the Maga community, are persuaded that Ukraine's not
our problem, and we certainly don't want to put America
and boots or lives on the line to protect it.
I like you, I think have some sympathy for the
argument that the Ukrainians are making, especially because back in
ninety four we gave them security guarantees if they gave
(27:14):
up nuclear weapons and that went over the side, and
they're rightfully, I think, very reluctant to buy that pig
in a poke Again, what do you make.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Of the argument that has been out there among some
of the more hawkish Ukraine supporters in this country that
if Putin isn't stopped, definitively in Ukraine, he will go
into other countries in Europe. Because you're hearing less of
that right now, because I think everyone's focused on this
(27:45):
current negotiation. But that has certainly been something that people
have been saying about Russia's intentions.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I think that is Putin's intention. He's made no secret
that he thinks the greatest disaster of the twentyth century
was the fall of the old Soviet Union. I think
he seeks to, if not re establish it fully than
some fashion of the Russian Empire, and that means bites
of parts of Europe again, and I hate to belabor
(28:16):
this point, but I think in some measure it's a
function of whether he's going to have the backing and
support of China to do such a thing. And unless
we get serious about dissuading the Chinese from thinking that
more chaos, what I call strategic arson, is something that
they can pursue with impunity, you're going to find I
(28:40):
think Putin believing that he can in fact similarly act
with impunity, if not immediately down the road.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Okay, so let's say we don't get any settlement at all,
We're coming up on the winter. Typically things kind of
grind to a halt just based on the difficulties in
moving men and material l based on the weather there.
How long would this go on? In your mind if
both sides just continue basically on the trajectory were on
(29:11):
right now.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, something that's changed in the course of this war
is that it's not all about you know, the movement
of mechanized divisions that gets that gets very tricky in
the winter time, especially the muddy periods at the beginning
and end of it. But what I think you're going
(29:35):
to be seeing more of is more attacks of rockets
and drones especially the war can continue. That is a
question of resources on the part of the Ukrainians, particularly
human resources, and seemingly the Russians being bankrolled by you know,
(29:55):
the Chinese again and getting all kinds of equipment for
the war from Iran. If it's well as they're still
in power there, I hope that that will be something
else that we attend to and bring to a close.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Rank a god.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
With Reagan, you were privy to high level discussions of
this nature. You know what the feel is like, what
the tone is like when things are progressing versus when
things are stalling. How would you gauge your optimism at
what we've seen so far today, added to what we
saw Friday in Alaska.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
I think it's a work in progress. And my guess
is that what we're going to see more of is
posturing and a decision that there's more meetings to be had.
So I think that this is not yet ripe for
a conclusion. I hope I'm wrong, but I think there
are pieces of this that haven't yet been addressed, as
I say, and that means this will continue at the
(30:54):
talking stage, I suppose, as well as the warring stage
while the talking goes on.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Thank you, Frank. We appreciate the time and you coming
on and sharing your expertise with.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Us, happy to do it. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Look, it's football season, and I know people maybe need
a little bit of an uplift as there's been some
some dour things out there on the global stage, and
one of the best things to just kind of kick back,
have a beer is football. And I know my son's
football season kicks off on Thursday. That is high school football.
(31:28):
But a lot of you out there gearing up too,
whether it's the NFL, whether it's college football, and our
friends at prize picks right now in forty plus states,
including California, including Texas, including Florida. We're gonna make you,
hopefully I'll have a lot more fun with football than
you otherwise would. Every week we're going to give you
picks once the season gets rolling. Prizepicks dot com. Code Clay.
(31:50):
You put in five dollars right now, you get fifty
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(32:13):
that's price picks dot com, my name Clay. Making America
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forty seven podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay
and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Back into Clay and Buck. We're closing up shop here.
We'll continue to assess the progress of these High Sticks negotiations,
so we will get into all of that with you tomorrow.
We'll also go back to the DC crime issue and
something we didn't get We didn't get you today just
because it's fun but not well, it's kind of important.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
MSNBC Clay, We'll have fun with this school. I want
to die, You want to save the whole thing? Well, no,
I think we can tell people, but just say, hey,
put a pen. We're gonna have some fun. But there's
been so much breaking news. Yeah today, but MSNBC go
ahead and tell people if they happen to miss it,
it is dead.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
They are changing the name. There is no more MSNBC.
They are changing the name of MSNBC because the brand
is so trash and everything at Trump has This is
just an absolute victory of Trump over the left wing
media lunatic brigade. I mean, it's it's astonishing and as
I said on Twitter, I think this alone should get
(33:30):
Trump added to Mount Rushmore. The destruction of MSNBC, the
destruction of the CNN propaganda machine, and we have Trump
to thank for this.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So we'll get into this more tomorrow. We'll have fun.
On a light note.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
On a light note from the world of high stakes negotiations,
Trump Zelenski fashion.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Clay and I are.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Sympathetic to those who get abused for their sartorial choices. Clay,
I can't, depending on Hugh ask my tennis shorts too
long or too short. I'm just I'm wondering, you know, Like,
how am I supposed to win here?
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Loo? Why are you're shorts so short? They're just shorts?
Why are you're shorts so long? What am I supposed
to do? I don't understand perfect? This is perfect. I've
joked with my wife that there is truly nothing I
can do in clothing, and by the way, it's never women.
I'm kind of stunned. I don't know if social media
wildly over indexes the number of men that care about
(34:26):
what other men wear. Like you have a pretty wife,
I've got a pretty wife. I can be standing next
to my gorgeous wife dressed in a perfect, you know,
evening gown and people are like, why are you wearing
that color shoe? Where's your why's your belt buckle? Focused
that way, I'm like, who looks at the guy? I
don't ever look at a dude. When there's a pretty
(34:46):
girl next to a guy, I don't care about the dude.
At all. All my eyes go to the pretty girl
on social media. There's a lot of dudes out there
that want to look at the guy. But this is Zolensky.
This is pretty funny. Remember Zelensky used to be a comedian, right,
I mean, this was how he became famous. Uh and
uh he last time he was in the Oval Office,
there was a question about why he wasn't in a suit.
(35:08):
The same guy followed up with the same question, Pretty funny.
This happened just a little while ago in the Oval office. President,
you look fabulous in that suit. I said, yeah, Look
you look good. I said the same thing.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, I said, the one that attacked you last time.
I remember that.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I apologize to you. Look you look wonderful. No, my
first question for you, President, the suit I changed. That's
pretty funny if you had trouble hearing, Zolensky said, but
you're in the same suit. After the same reporter asked
him about his outfit, I changed, I changed, but you
(35:46):
have not, was his final line. Did you hear how
Zelensky's outfit was described by that White House reporter? Fabulous?
That White House reporter said he looked fabulous, not me,
the white I do.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Think the word fabulous when you're discussing when you're discussing fashion,
I think the word fabulous is particularly appropriate.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Play thank you, thank you. It's just that I have
such a buoyant, optimistic worldview that I want to layer
out compliments on everyone across the entire culture. When we
come back tomorrow, we'll find out we're going to have
a press conference that is starting right about now, so
I imagine for those of you listening to Sean Hannity
there will be updates on exactly what it's said, and
(36:29):
tomorrow we will break down the ongoing fallout, and the
number one question will be has this set the table
for some sort of trilateral meeting and are we moving
closer to peace potentially in Ukraine? All that tomorrow we
will break down for you. Thanks for hanging on, Clay
and Buck
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. We are rolling through
the Monday edition of the program and it is a
super newsworthy one. We just got finished with an Oval
Office meeting between Trump and Zelensky, and I would say
(00:22):
as we work towards the idea of a trilateral meeting,
Trump is effectively playing the role of mediator. There are
also probably more European leaders in the White House at
one moment than we've almost ever seen before. I mean,
you've got the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, England, the
(00:46):
head of NATO, basically everyone arrayed there for a meeting
to discuss the future of the Ukraine Russia conflict. And
I do think the meeting that we just saw between
Trump and Zolensky was light years, light years different than
(01:06):
the last time we saw Zolensky in the Oval Office
when they were negotiating the so called Mineral Rights agreement.
And all of this is moving in rapid speed. One
bit of news that came out at the end of
the press conference, and I don't think we've hardly even
mentioned it, if at all, on this program. Milania Trump
(01:27):
wrote a letter that Trump hand delivered to Vladimir Putin,
calling on Putin to end the war and stop the
murder suffering that is going on in Europe. That matters
on some level because Milania Trump, Buck, you may remember
the exact country was it. She was from the Czech
(01:48):
Republic area. If I remember, where is Milania's from, Slovenia. Slovenia,
So she is familiar as someone who was born and
raised in in that region in some way, with the
influence of Russia and all of those all of those
angles associated with it. Just now, Zolenski's wife has written
(02:13):
a letter to Milanya, thanking her reportedly for trying to
do whatever she can to stop the war, and Zolensky
is going to deliver that letter from his wife to Milanya. Trump.
I mentioned that only in the context of personal relationships
is everything to Trump, and you can argue, Hey, that
(02:36):
shouldn't be the case. There's huge state departments. Trump wants
to look in the eye of someone else and have
a handshake, agreement, or a relationship. It seems to me, Buck,
that the relationship between Trump and Zolensky is actually much
stronger now than it was back in was it February
(03:00):
when they had the Oval Office blow up? If I
remember correctly, I think it was February they had that
iconic head to head meeting after the Pope died in
Rome in the Vatican City, and it seems like their
relationships have been improving since. Slovenia, by the way, for
(03:22):
those of you who are not geographic experts, and I
would put myself firmly in this category, Slovenia was a
part of Yugoslavia prior to becoming an independent nation in
nineteen ninety one. Just fyi, okay, let me play some
of these cuts that all just came out in the
last hour or so. Let's see. Trump says there could
(03:45):
be a trilateral meeting right off the top here cut
thirty two. Let's listen.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, we're gonna have a meeting. I think if everything
works out well today, we'll have a trilad and I
think there will be a reasonable chance of ending the
world when we do that.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Is this the end of the road for American support
or where Frank is Today's meeting deal or no deal?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I can never say that. It's never the end of
the people are being killed and we want to stop that,
So I would not say it's the end of the road. No,
I think we have a good chance of doing it.
It's been almost four years now that a lot of
people were killed last week, A lot of people last week.
I mean millions of people killed, but a lot of
people last week for whatever reason, a big number, a
(04:29):
lot of soldiers, both on both sides. And I know
the president, I know myself, and I believe Vladimir Putin
wants to see it ended.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And as you know on Friday, so you've got President
Leslie here, as you listen to Russia and Ukraine, which
side has the better to carus?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, I don't want to say that. I'm just going
to I'm just here to be Look, this isn't my war.
This is Joe Biden's war. He's the one that had
a lot to do with this happening. And we want
to get it ended, and we wanted to and good
for everybody we wanted to end.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Good.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The people of Ukraine have suffered incredibly.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Okay, let me hit you with a couple of others here, buck,
and then we'll break down what we think the significance is.
Here cut thirty seven. Trump says we want a long
term piece. We're not looking for a short term deal.
I think that's important. Cut thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
We're going to work with Ukraine, We're going to work
with everybody, and we're going to make sure that if
this piece, the piece is going to stay long term.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
This is very long term.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We're not talking about a two year piece and then
we end up in this mess again. We're going to
make sure that everything's good. We'll work with Russia, We're
going to work with Ukraine. We're going to make sure
it works. And I think if we can get to piece,
it's going to work. I have no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Okay, So Buck and let me play one more time,
because I think this is probably the most newsworthy element.
Trump not ruling out sending American troops to Ukraine. This
is cut thirty four. I think that was the biggest
news that came out of this press availability in the
Oval Office. Cut thirty four. Your teams talked about security guarantees.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Could that involve the US troops would be ruled that
out in the future.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Will let you know that maybe later today we're meeting
with seven great leaders of great countries also, and we'll
be talking about that they'll all be involved, but there'll
be a lot of uh, there'll be a lot of help.
When it comes to security, there's gonna be a lot
of help. It's going to be good. They are a
first line of defense because they're there, they're Europe, but
(06:30):
we're gonna help them out. Also, we'll be involved.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Okay, Yeah, that's the big that's the biggest thing of
all here, the land issue, the swaps.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
You get this.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
I get that it's gonna be painful for Ukraine because
they don't think they should lose anything to Russian aggression.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
But the realities are what they are right.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Now, and that I think you can get to a
negotiated settlement right now. The challenge is how does that
settlement in and how to is it endure, specifically without
US either guarantee of security, meaning we would send in
(07:11):
actual military to help repulse another Russian I'm just laying
it out everybody, this is where we are. I'm not
advocating for it. I'm talking about what it would mean.
I think we can all see what it would mean. Or,
as Clay was laying it out before, the possibility of
a US military presence in Ukraine as the ultimate guaranteur of.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Peace in the region.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Uh, because you know, if you have Russian tanks rolling
over and shooting at Americans. Uh, that's going to mean
immediately we're involved. But I understand what that also means
Russia thousands of nukes, major military, first world, first world military,
if not a first world economy.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
And it's it's a challenge. I wonder how now the
Trump has to be clear. Trump hasn't said that's happening.
Maybe that doesn't happen. But we are trying to think
here through Clay. What is a guarantee is a very
powerful word. What is a guarantee acceptable to Ukraine at
this point that does not involve a clear US maybe
(08:16):
an EU contingent instead. But I don't see how you
get around that. I think there's so many ways to
tiptoe up.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
First of all, when we did the mineral rights agreement,
it is a backdoor acknowledgment that will defend American interest
in Ukraine. That's why Ukraine wanted to do the deal.
It wasn't talked about a lot. But when you say, hey,
America owns fifty percent of this mine effectively, then you
are saying we're not going to let somebody come in
(08:45):
and take away American property. So it is a backdoor defense.
Part of me wonders whether they're going to get really
skillful in the way that this is drafted. Maybe Europe
is providing some secondary and maybe let me use my vocabulary. Well,
here the Americans are the tertiary troops, and so you
(09:08):
have think about this, and again this is just me
kind of sketching out. You have the Ukrainian troops on
the front line, and Ukraine is staring right across at
Russia in some sort of newly designed battlefield setup that
is not dissimilar to what we have in Korea. In
secondary support, you have so called European peace peace keeping
(09:30):
troops that are basically a secondary line of defense further back,
maybe it's fifty miles, sixty miles, whatever you want to do,
but do have the ability to move to the front
rapidly as needed. Then in a third tier, in a
tertiary level, you have American troops on the ground, protecting,
securing all of the economic interests of the United States.
(09:55):
But that is all the way back, maybe in Kiev,
right very far from the front line. Is that an
acceptable backdoor ish NATO Article five protection without officially being it,
meaning Russia has to invade in order for those troops
to get called in from line two in line three.
(10:16):
And then the other part of this buck that I
wonder about is how much does Trump just trust that
Putin's not going to test him? That matters, but only
for the next three years. Oh, because if you suddenly
had President Kamala Harris, do you feel comfortable that Putin?
Who knows again, Putin can play the long game a
(10:37):
bit here, because he's got twenty years in theory to
still be president, and he knows at some point sadly
in those twenty years, maybe the United States has Joe
Biden two point zero and he takes advantage of that.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yes, I mean, we all know Kamala is not going
to run again, Clay, But besides that point, if it's
President Newsom or President Kamala Harris, that will change the
calculation for Vladimir Putin, no question about it. I do
think though, that we're in a situation where Trump is
he's going to be negotiating and this thing, and he
(11:10):
might have to come out and tell the magabase, Hey, guys,
this is the only way to get this done or else,
This thing grinds on forever, and then there's a greater
risk of possible American Russian direct conflict. And then of
course there's always that specter in the background of some
kind of a tactical nuclear exchange on the front lines.
(11:31):
Now nobody wants that. I hope it doesn't come to
US troops as the guarantee. I'm just trying to think
of what this was why we talked about the sanctions thing.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Anything that is, oh, we're going.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
To make Russia's economy beg for mercy is not a
guarantee of Ukrainian security. That's what we've already seen. Okay,
there is nothing that they can promise on the economic
warfare front against Russia that would make any savvy Ukrainian
think that that's actually a guarantee. It's a stumbling block
(12:07):
to Russian aggression at best. So with that, it's got
to be military. I'm also reminded here of Clay of
how right Trump was all along, even in his first term,
about how NATO needs to step up, NATO needs to
spend more in its defense, Europe needs to stop being
a bunch of free riders. EU is the largest economy
in the world.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Everybody.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
The EU is the largest economy in the world, you know,
the Eurozone. Now, obviously it's a lot of different countries
put together, but why is America by far the biggest
contributor to this in materiel? And why isn't you know,
why isn't Europe stepping up and realizing, you know, all
those fancy social welfare states you got running, guys, it's
(12:47):
only because the American security guarantee You've been able to
get that going.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And I thought part of the press conference that was
actually interesting and illuminating in that aspect was Trump pointing
out NATO spending has gotten to basically five percent or
they have that target. Now, the way that this is
structured since Trump came into office is we sell weapons
to NATO, and then NATO then provides those weapons to Ukraine.
(13:12):
In some way, it sounded like that was the way
that he was describing it.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
This is the role of Pakistan, by the way, in
the Soviet Afghan War and the Pakistani ISI Interservices Intelligence Agency,
they were the cutouts for us to get the stingers
and the other weaponry. You know, you guys, remember Charlie
Wilson's War to bring that up again, But it was
the Pakistani intelligence services because they could operate in that region. Obviously,
(13:35):
the Europeans are already in country and can pass along
whatever we need them to pass along.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I would also point this out. President Trump has got
such a connection with his base and with the Republican
Party in general. I think that a lot of people
just trust him to get a deal done, and I
think that gives him the flexibility to do some things
that other Republican leaders couldn't. I think people trust Trump
(14:02):
to keep us out of war. I really do, and
I do think that that gives him negotiating leverage to
try to get a deal done. The thing that Russia
wants again, I think is always so important. What do
the people want? Russia wants land, Ukraine wants security. That's
their number one goal. We can provide some of that security,
(14:22):
but how is it structured is the key, and that's
the devil in the details, so to speak.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
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Speaker 3 (15:05):
Uh.
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Speaker 1 (15:59):
News if you can count on, and some laughs too. Clay,
Travis and Bucks find them on the free iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back
into Clay and Bucks.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
So the biggest thing right now in this huge summit
at the White House with European leaders and Vladimir Zelenski
of Volosmir Zelenski of Ukraine is the possibility of US
security guarantee for an end of the Ukraine War. This
we're not just talking ceasefire here, We're talking durable peace.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
That's the goal. That's the goal.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Well they get there, we don't know, But Clay, another
part of this is Zelenski. So the security guarantee, I
think is the biggest question. We'll talk to Frank Gaffney
about that here. Momentarily, he was a high stakes negotiator
for the Reagan administration. I know many of youre familiar
with Frank, but we'll talk to him about this.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Clay.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
The other thing, though, is Zelenski saying in the Oval office. Yeah,
I'll sit down with Putin. Let's go, let's have this conversation.
Let's see where we are. So we're at at least
getting more data or at least moving this thing. The
process is moving. The result is what is uncertain. But
you've got to have that process to get to the
result you want.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Until you get these individuals sitting down in some sort
of agreement that they might in any way into the conflict,
you can't into conflict, so you have to meet with
them sooner or later. And it does seem like there's
a good chance that we're gonna get Trump in the
role of mediator, maybe by the end of the week,
for Zelensky and Putin face to face. So we will
(17:34):
give you the absolute latest on that. How does this end?
And again, the security guarantees versus the land being given
up seems to be the primary concern of both sides,
Ukraine and Russia. In that respect. We'll break more of
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Speaker 4 (18:55):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck guys. Just a quick
cleanup on ale buck here. Sorry I got that wrong,
and it's an important one, so maya Kulpa give me
a code read. At one point in the twenty first century,
the EU had a larger economy than the US. I
think was around two thousand and eight. The team just
pulled up all the numbers.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
But we have.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Absolutely smoked the EU over the last fifteen years or
so in terms of GDP growth. So we're at about
what is it like, we're the day They all the
European countries combined are about twenty trillion. We're about thirty trillion.
So sorry, sorry, sorry. Their population is larger than ours.
They've got about four hundred and fifty million. We've got
about three hundred and thirty depending on how you want
(19:36):
to count the illegals. But you know, it's the whole
other thing. But so they have a bigger population manpower.
But in terms of you know, we're talking about the
Ukraine situation, but in terms of material monetary resources. What
an astonishing stat in favor of the US approach of things.
By the way, it's not even close. Over the last
fifteen years, we have absolutely it turns out, working twenty
(19:58):
hours a week and like three days a week. And
you know, having eight weeks off a year doesn't make
you as rich as what Americans do, So Maya coulp
all VIPs. I'm sorry, Buck is fallible on both serving
and stats, although the serve game is not over yet.
Let's take our friend Frank Gaffney here. Frank Gaffney was
President Reagan's Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy.
(20:21):
Also served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
Nuclear Forces and Arms Controlled Policy.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Frank, appreciate you being here.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I'm sure you saw what's going on in that Trump
White House in that meeting. Can we just dive into
the security guarantee part, because that's the sticky situation that
seems to be emerging right now.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
What do you make of it?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Well, it's sticky all the way around, as best I
can tell. On the one hand, I'm incredulous that Vladimir
Putin will actually accept it. I'm also somewhat surprised that
President Trump apparently had in some form or another. And
(21:03):
you know, whether it's enough to persuade the Ukrainians to
relinquished territory that they've lost, to be Frank, but nonetheless,
seek to recover remains very much to be seen. So
it is what Britz would call, I think a sticky
wicket in the cricket.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Gain Frank, it seems that basically this is boiled down
to Russia's going to demand territory, Ukraine's going to demand
security guarantees. I mean that seems to be the primary
goal of each side at this point. How does this
resolve itself? Is there any parallel in the Cold War?
The analogy we've been using is Korea. You have a
(21:47):
demilitarized zone. It's been a tenuous piece, but it now
has lasted for seventy five some odd years. Ish, is
there any precedent there? How would you solve this this situation?
If you were given the ability to act as mediator, well.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I would do one thing that, as far as I
can tell, is not on the table or even being discussed,
and that is I would hold the Chinese Communist Party
accountable for the fix that we're in at the moment.
I believe that they Jijing things specifically green lighted the
invasion of Iraq, exue me out of Ukraine, and in
(22:29):
so doing has been ever since the enabler of this war.
I think they did it for selfish reasons. I believe
that it is to distract the United States and the Europeans,
to tie us down, to bleed us in terms of
military equipment and financial means, and that all serves the
(22:53):
purpose China for its own agenda on the Pacific. So
I would start by saying, those guys have to be
held accountable for what's being done here, and without that,
I honestly am not sure that the Russians will agree
to anything. I think as long as the Chinese believe,
as they've indicated, that this war should continue, the much
(23:15):
junior partner in this so called no limits partnership name
with Vladimir Putin is probably going to be heating his
bosses in Beijing. So it's a challenge that is not
currently being addressed, as I said, and I think that
until it does, it's not clear to me that any
(23:35):
of these negotiations about the bunch.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
So we're still hoping for breakthrough. Breakthroughs yere Frank, and
we're going to get more details about where the Ukrainian
side comes down on this. It seems like there's a
willingness for Zelensky to sit down with Putin, which is
certainly a necessary precondition for the trilateral Trilottle discussion, if
not trilatal agreement to come out of this. What, though,
(24:03):
do you think what can Trump do to pressure the
Russians to actually be willing to end this thing, Because
that's one thing that's getting a lot of attention right now.
As this is going on, as these discussions are happening,
and Trump was saying it in the Oval Office, the
Russians are escalating their offensive. The Russians are trying to
run up more casualties on the Ukrainian side as we're
(24:24):
supposed to see conversations about peace. So do you think
all the economic levers have been pulled? How can Trump
get through to Putin that he won't just continue to
get more if he keeps fighting.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Well again, Trump has placed secondary sanctions on India for
buying Russian oil at this kount of Prisis. The Chinese
are also doing that, and I think if Trump wants
to bring real pressure to bear on Putin, put those
secondary sanctions on China and I think you'll see that
(24:59):
there's prob a willingness to get to an agreement that
doesn't exist at the moment, That's what I would do.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
How do you preserve Okay, let's pretend that Ukraine, because
this is where I do think Zelensky has a maybe
the most important argument. Let's say that he says, Okay,
we're going to give you some of the territory that
you have invaded that we don't think you deserve. But
you took this land, and we're going to draw a
new border. But based on the way Putin has behaved
(25:28):
over the last ten years, how do you, if you're Zolensky,
knowing that Trump only has three and a half years
left in office, keep any kind of security apparatus or
faith in this deal when Putin has shown that he
will not abide by any sort of agreement not to
(25:50):
invade again, meaning as soon as Trump leaves and you
end up with another week democrat in office, Putin tries
to take another bite at the apple. In other words,
I'm actually sympathetic to Zelenski. The security guarantee seem to
be to me, the most important thing for Ukraine. I
don't understand how you change that dynamic.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I'm not sure you can again unless there is some
disincentive to buten that is not evident at the moment.
To the contrary, I think that what he is signaling
in his behavior to date, for sure, and arguably in
some of his posturing at the moment, is he's leaving
(26:32):
his options open, and that means that a security guarantee
is necessary. I'm just not sure that the United States
has the appetite for it, and if it does, whether
it will be broadly supported by the American people, who
we've tucked ourselves into a position where a lot of folks,
(26:53):
particularly in the Maga community, are persuaded that Ukraine's not
our problem, and we certainly don't want to put America
and boots or lives on the line to protect it.
I like you, I think have some sympathy for the
argument that the Ukrainians are making, especially because back in
ninety four we gave them security guarantees if they gave
(27:14):
up nuclear weapons and that went over the side, and
they're rightfully, I think, very reluctant to buy that pig
in a poke Again, what do you make.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Of the argument that has been out there among some
of the more hawkish Ukraine supporters in this country that
if Putin isn't stopped, definitively in Ukraine, he will go
into other countries in Europe. Because you're hearing less of
that right now, because I think everyone's focused on this
(27:45):
current negotiation. But that has certainly been something that people
have been saying about Russia's intentions.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I think that is Putin's intention. He's made no secret
that he thinks the greatest disaster of the twentyth century
was the fall of the old Soviet Union. I think
he seeks to, if not re establish it fully than
some fashion of the Russian Empire, and that means bites
of parts of Europe again, and I hate to belabor
(28:16):
this point, but I think in some measure it's a
function of whether he's going to have the backing and
support of China to do such a thing. And unless
we get serious about dissuading the Chinese from thinking that
more chaos, what I call strategic arson, is something that
they can pursue with impunity, you're going to find I
(28:40):
think Putin believing that he can in fact similarly act
with impunity, if not immediately down the road.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Okay, so let's say we don't get any settlement at all,
We're coming up on the winter. Typically things kind of
grind to a halt just based on the difficulties in
moving men and material l based on the weather there.
How long would this go on? In your mind if
both sides just continue basically on the trajectory were on
(29:11):
right now.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, something that's changed in the course of this war
is that it's not all about you know, the movement
of mechanized divisions that gets that gets very tricky in
the winter time, especially the muddy periods at the beginning
and end of it. But what I think you're going
(29:35):
to be seeing more of is more attacks of rockets
and drones especially the war can continue. That is a
question of resources on the part of the Ukrainians, particularly
human resources, and seemingly the Russians being bankrolled by you know,
(29:55):
the Chinese again and getting all kinds of equipment for
the war from Iran. If it's well as they're still
in power there, I hope that that will be something
else that we attend to and bring to a close.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Rank a god.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
With Reagan, you were privy to high level discussions of
this nature. You know what the feel is like, what
the tone is like when things are progressing versus when
things are stalling. How would you gauge your optimism at
what we've seen so far today, added to what we
saw Friday in Alaska.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
I think it's a work in progress. And my guess
is that what we're going to see more of is
posturing and a decision that there's more meetings to be had.
So I think that this is not yet ripe for
a conclusion. I hope I'm wrong, but I think there
are pieces of this that haven't yet been addressed, as
I say, and that means this will continue at the
(30:54):
talking stage, I suppose, as well as the warring stage
while the talking goes on.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Thank you, Frank. We appreciate the time and you coming
on and sharing your expertise with.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Us, happy to do it. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Look, it's football season, and I know people maybe need
a little bit of an uplift as there's been some
some dour things out there on the global stage, and
one of the best things to just kind of kick back,
have a beer is football. And I know my son's
football season kicks off on Thursday. That is high school football.
(31:28):
But a lot of you out there gearing up too,
whether it's the NFL, whether it's college football, and our
friends at prize picks right now in forty plus states,
including California, including Texas, including Florida. We're gonna make you,
hopefully I'll have a lot more fun with football than
you otherwise would. Every week we're going to give you
picks once the season gets rolling. Prizepicks dot com. Code Clay.
(31:50):
You put in five dollars right now, you get fifty
dollars to just make football a little bit more fun
than it already is. This is America sport. All of
you you pretty much are going to be watching at
some point in time. Go get hooked up now. Forty
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that's Clay for fifty dollars. When you play five dollars,
(32:13):
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or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Back into Clay and Buck. We're closing up shop here.
We'll continue to assess the progress of these High Sticks negotiations,
so we will get into all of that with you tomorrow.
We'll also go back to the DC crime issue and
something we didn't get We didn't get you today just
because it's fun but not well, it's kind of important.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
MSNBC Clay, We'll have fun with this school. I want
to die, You want to save the whole thing? Well, no,
I think we can tell people, but just say, hey,
put a pen. We're gonna have some fun. But there's
been so much breaking news. Yeah today, but MSNBC go
ahead and tell people if they happen to miss it,
it is dead.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
They are changing the name. There is no more MSNBC.
They are changing the name of MSNBC because the brand
is so trash and everything at Trump has This is
just an absolute victory of Trump over the left wing
media lunatic brigade. I mean, it's it's astonishing and as
I said on Twitter, I think this alone should get
(33:30):
Trump added to Mount Rushmore. The destruction of MSNBC, the
destruction of the CNN propaganda machine, and we have Trump
to thank for this.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So we'll get into this more tomorrow. We'll have fun.
On a light note.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
On a light note from the world of high stakes negotiations,
Trump Zelenski fashion.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Clay and I are.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Sympathetic to those who get abused for their sartorial choices. Clay,
I can't, depending on Hugh ask my tennis shorts too
long or too short. I'm just I'm wondering, you know, Like,
how am I supposed to win here?
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Loo? Why are you're shorts so short? They're just shorts?
Why are you're shorts so long? What am I supposed
to do? I don't understand perfect? This is perfect. I've
joked with my wife that there is truly nothing I
can do in clothing, and by the way, it's never women.
I'm kind of stunned. I don't know if social media
wildly over indexes the number of men that care about
(34:26):
what other men wear. Like you have a pretty wife,
I've got a pretty wife. I can be standing next
to my gorgeous wife dressed in a perfect, you know,
evening gown and people are like, why are you wearing
that color shoe? Where's your why's your belt buckle? Focused
that way, I'm like, who looks at the guy? I
don't ever look at a dude. When there's a pretty
(34:46):
girl next to a guy, I don't care about the dude.
At all. All my eyes go to the pretty girl
on social media. There's a lot of dudes out there
that want to look at the guy. But this is Zolensky.
This is pretty funny. Remember Zelensky used to be a comedian, right,
I mean, this was how he became famous. Uh and
uh he last time he was in the Oval Office,
there was a question about why he wasn't in a suit.
(35:08):
The same guy followed up with the same question, Pretty funny.
This happened just a little while ago in the Oval office. President,
you look fabulous in that suit. I said, yeah, Look
you look good. I said the same thing.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, I said, the one that attacked you last time.
I remember that.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I apologize to you. Look you look wonderful. No, my
first question for you, President, the suit I changed. That's
pretty funny if you had trouble hearing, Zolensky said, but
you're in the same suit. After the same reporter asked
him about his outfit, I changed, I changed, but you
(35:46):
have not, was his final line. Did you hear how
Zelensky's outfit was described by that White House reporter? Fabulous?
That White House reporter said he looked fabulous, not me,
the white I do.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Think the word fabulous when you're discussing when you're discussing fashion,
I think the word fabulous is particularly appropriate.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Play thank you, thank you. It's just that I have
such a buoyant, optimistic worldview that I want to layer
out compliments on everyone across the entire culture. When we
come back tomorrow, we'll find out we're going to have
a press conference that is starting right about now, so
I imagine for those of you listening to Sean Hannity
there will be updates on exactly what it's said, and
(36:29):
tomorrow we will break down the ongoing fallout, and the
number one question will be has this set the table
for some sort of trilateral meeting and are we moving
closer to peace potentially in Ukraine? All that tomorrow we
will break down for you. Thanks for hanging on, Clay
and Buck
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