August 21, 2025 • 36 mins
Hour 1 of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show delivers a powerful breakdown of the New York Court of Appeals' unanimous decision to overturn the $500 million civil fraud fine levied against President Donald Trump by Attorney General Letitia James. The hosts frame this legal victory as a major turning point in the ongoing battle against politically motivated lawfare and judicial overreach. Clay Travis is credited for accurately predicting the case’s dismissal, reinforcing his credibility among listeners.
The episode dives deep into the origins of the case, which alleged Trump inflated asset values—most notably Mar-a-Lago—to secure favorable mortgage terms. However, the hosts emphasize that Trump repaid all loans with interest, and the banks involved expressed no concerns, even stating they’d gladly do business with him again. The legal theory behind the case is described as “harebrained,” with no actual victim, and the $600 million penalty (including interest) is portrayed as a product of Trump Derangement Syndrome infecting the courtroom.
Clay and Buck also explore the broader implications of this ruling, suggesting it signals the unraveling of other politically charged cases against Trump, including the E. Jean Carroll civil suit and the 34 felony counts related to bookkeeping. They argue these cases are built on weak legal foundations and will likely be tossed on appeal.
The hosts criticize Letitia James for her public statements promising to prosecute Trump, calling her actions disgraceful and politically motivated. They speculate she may face legal consequences herself for alleged mortgage fraud and call for her disbarment. The episode also features Trump’s reaction via Truth Social, where he celebrates the court’s courage and labels the case a “political witch hunt.”
In addition to legal analysis, the hour includes cultural commentary on Trump’s resilience, likening him to Neo from The Matrix, and highlighting his growing popularity and influence. The hosts argue that Trump’s legacy will become even more iconic over time, especially as the public recognizes the extent of misinformation and partisan targeting.
The segment also touches on the broader business impact, noting that entrepreneurs and corporations are increasingly relocating from New York due to political risk—citing Elon Musk’s move to Texas as a prime example. The hosts reaffirm their preference for living in red states like Tennessee and Florida to avoid similar legal persecution.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everybody to the Thursday edition of The Clay Travis
and Buck Sexton Show. A lot of news to dive into,
and we will do that with all of you. We
appreciate you hanging out with us, being ready to look
at all things that are mattering on this lovely Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
We can start with one here.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We have a we can put one on the board
for a Clay Travis prediction come true. He feels he's
got a little bit of the hot hand right now.
He's feeling feeling pretty smooth, feeling pretty on it. The
Court of Appeals in New York has tossed tossed the
five hundred million dollars civil fraud fine by Age Tish James.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
This is a breaking news today.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And I will say this is one where I was
Clay called this very early on and was he was vociferous,
he was unwavering. I thought this was possible, but not
as confidence. So I give the full predictive If both
of us one hundred percent agree on something it's not
I give.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
The full predictive value. Here.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
All points are worded to Clay on the prediction on
this one, because I thought it was kind of a
fifty to fifty and he said, they're absolutely going to
toss it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And now this is this is good.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
The Appellate Division, First Department in New York Credit where
it's due, did the obviously right thing. This was completely
a completely insane case, obvious political headhunting. Attorney General of
New York State Tiss James was, it was awful what
(01:37):
she did. It was disgraceful that she ran promising to
prosecute somebody or promising to find somebody, you know, bring
suit again civil suit in this case. And that they
that they said, Clay, I mean the things that came
out in this case. They that Trump valued mar A
Lago at five hundred and seventeen million dollars, and they
said it was twenty seven million dollars in twenty twenty.
(02:01):
Anybody with even a passing the vaguest familiarity with the
Palm Beach real estate market, you know, I don't know
what house you're gonna get on the water for twenty
seven million dollars in Palm Beach these days, Clay, it
was the abuse of law in the worst possible fashion.
(02:21):
And maybe the look he's president now, so maybe the
appellate court decided they weren't going to continue to poke
the dragon. But a good call by you, sir, take
a bow, for sure, and a good moment actually for
I know this sounds corny, perhaps it's true, a good
moment for law and order in this country, for the
rule of law in this country.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, for people who have forgotten.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And I know there are so many different legal proceedings.
We've joked kind of about this, but I never would
have believed when I went to law school that I
would end up just analyzing Trump legal cases for what
feels like a career oftentimes, because Trump two point zero
has primarily been driven the resistance has by the judiciary,
(03:05):
by the legal branch, and it all started as a
part of the twenty twenty four elections. So this particular case,
and I know there are so many of them that
it is hard to keep up, was brought by Letitia
James alleging mortgage fraud. And I'm trying to simplify this
a little bit, and she said the mortgage fraud was
that Trump inflated the assets that were under his control
(03:27):
to obtain a lower rate of the mortgage than he
otherwise should have. But and this is why the case
was really outlandish from the start. He paid all the
loans back, so there was no actual victim here.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Even worse, even worse than that Clay.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
He paid all the loans back with interest, and the
banks said they had no problem with this. They agreed
with his The banks did an independent assessment. They always do. Yes,
I mean this is anyone who's gotten a mortgage knows
it is a giant pain in the butt. The banks
do their own assessment. They want their own person going there. Clearly,
the bank said they would be this was part of
the court finalist. They would be eager to do business
(04:12):
with Trump again.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yes, So this was an incredibly strained legal theory to
begin with, because there was no victim, and so the
idea that Trump should have to pay back what five
over five hundred million dollars with interest. Now, she tried
to calculate what the rate, in her opinion, should have
(04:36):
been for the loans that Trump took out that he
ended up paying back, and that the banks said they
were very comfortable in the deal they did, and then
argued that that was a fraud perpetrated that the State
of New York needed to investigate, bring civil criminal penalties,
civil penalties against and the New York Court of Appeals
(04:57):
just said this is garbage. And here is where I
think we are headed. I think all these cases are
going to end up getting tossed. I think there are three.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Buck, because sometimes I get
kind of lost in the weeds on some of this too.
There are three New York state trials and or legal
proceedings of significance. There's probably more than this. One is
(05:20):
this one that was just tossed out the mortgage fraud.
The other one was the Egene Carroll civil suit relating
to allegations of sexual assault. I think that's going to
be tossed. I've explained why. And then is it thirty
four felony counts over bookkeeping fraud? It was thirty four, right,
(05:40):
not forty three. I can't remember which one of those
numbers are right. Yes, I think all three of these
are going to get tossed eventually. The felonies obviously, is
the only one that is criminal in nature, and it
is a sham case that is going to be tossed
on appeal the most likely if you had me rank
them to remain, if Trump were gonna lose one of these,
(06:03):
it would be the e Gene Carroll. But I just
at its baseline. Again, this goes into the weeds. I
don't understand how it's defamation to deny that you raped someone.
I mean, that seems that seems like fair, fair for
Trump to say, right.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
This would mean this would mean that in any case,
by the way, your defense would make you lie, liable
for a liable for the defense itself. Right, and I
didn't do this thing. Let's have a trial. Oh, we're
gonna find you guilty. And by the way, because you
said you didn't do it, we're also gonna sue you
because of what you said in court. I mean, I
(06:39):
don't understand how it's It is crazy. And let me
be even clearer on this, because this we've seen a
lawsuit over George Stephanopolos. Of this, Trump was actually, in
a civil context found not to have committed rape. That is,
the jury found it more likely than not in a
civil context that he did not commit a rape. They
(06:59):
did find it more likely than not that he had
engaged in sexual assault. So he then said, this is
where the additional lawsuit and additional damages came buck. After
this verdict, he said, well, that's not true. I didn't,
you know, rape her, I didn't sexually assault her. And
then she's lying about that, and then she sued him
(07:21):
again saying, well, he defamed her based on the ruling
that she had gotten. So again, I just think that
case is garbage. We're seeing the Letitia James mortgage case
is officially basically from the New York Court of Appeals garbage.
And I think all the felony charges are going to
get tossed to Now. A lot of you may say,
(07:42):
I don't even care Trump's in office all these things.
I do think the court's rulings here matter because the
precedent they put in place when they went after Trump.
If you happen to be a Republican and live in
a blue state, or candidly, if you happen to be
in a Democrat and run in a red state, we
can't allow your politics to become proxy for civil and
(08:03):
criminal liability just based on what you happen to believe.
In my opinion, Trump stomped on law fair the same
way that he's stomped on MSNBC and CNN and accomplish
things that I don't think many of us believed were
even possible years ago.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
In both In both of those instances.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The fact that you had it was four criminal trials
or four criminal prosecutions rather and multiple civil suits all
timed to hit him at the same time and while
he's running for president, and that he will emerge from
all of that Clay essentially now. I know there's still
(08:43):
the New York case, but that one I agree with you.
I mean, there's gonna be there's gonna be no punishment
that they He's the president. They can't do anything right now,
and there's gonna be no punishment for it. And I
think eventually that's gonna be overturned as well. He's going
to emerge on scaths from all of this, yes.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Which is which is incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Uh And and it also goes to I think the
desperation that the Democrats feel right now, because what happens
when you've thrown everything in the kitchen sink and the
other guy just grins and keeps coming. That's exactly what
Trump did. They did everything they could abuse the system
in ways we have never seen before as a country,
(09:19):
and Trumps president more popular than he's ever been. His
base is more behind him than they've ever been. If
that's even possible, and what have they got Davin Newsom
trying to create cool guy memes of himself and posting
them online.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I mean, whatever you think of Trump, I don't know
that we have ever seen someone take this degree of
attack and just keep moving forward and ultimately vanquish everybody
who tried to fight against him. I mean, at this point,
you're going to like this pop culture reference. It feels
(09:59):
like Trump is Neo and the Matrix buck. It feels
like he has just learned how to move at a
different speed and how to handle attack for those of
you who have seen the movie, in a way that
is unprecedented, and where he can basically turn on his
foes and just utterly vanquish them and look I do.
(10:25):
The one thing I will say is I really admire
Trump because there were so many cowards who refuse to
stand up for Trump that now are showing up and
kissing the ring. He's been the cover for a lot
of companies out there that knew that their woke employees
were engaging in ridiculous insubordination that undercut the very fabric
(10:49):
of the company's culture itself, and he is making so
much of American society better because they're using him as
the cover and saying, well, you know, Trump won, we
have to do this. They're doing what they know to
be right because Trump has given them the cover to
do it. And I just think the Trump story for
(11:12):
decades to come is actually going to get more impressive
because so many people out there are caught up in
the political moment day to day and they've just decided
they hate Trump. And as that fades, I think Trump
is going to become an even more iconic figure than
he is as we speak about him on this day.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
This is a man who, at no point during the
effort to destroy him, destroy his his legacy, his reputation,
take away his freedom, tried to bankrupt him. I mean
it's five hundred million, I think, plus some one hundred
million in interest. Now Trump has a lot of money,
but that hurts anybody cash, Okay, I've even when was
(11:51):
the last time you heard him a fine for an
individual that big? I might add, I mean, how much
money could he have possibly made? It's a sofferential have
been with these loans, if they had even been There's
no way it would bonkers buck. I mean, they went
back in time to the date of the initial loan
and decided to create their own loan amount, sorry loan rate,
(12:14):
and then charge him interest on that. For I mean,
it's one of the most hair brained legal schemes I've
ever seen. And again it is Trump derangement syndrome inside
of a courtroom. And I honestly think Letitia James should
be disbarred over some of the legal arguments.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That she has made.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And if somebody, if she as has been alleged, was
involved in mortgage actual clear mortgage bought herself, she should
spend some time in a prison. That should actually happen
because she sent other people to prison for that while
she was ag no problem with that. Why shouldn't she
go She would send any of you if you checked,
you know it's my primary residence, then it's not and
you got a better rate, and she would she would
(12:55):
send you to prison. But she doesn't go to prison.
But just one more note on Trump Clay. During this
whole process, never once did you see this guy. And
he's in the public all the time. He's showing up
for the mug shot and he got shot as we
know in Butler, Pennsylvania. Never once did you see this
guy despair. Never once did you see him claim that
(13:16):
he's he's unable to handle all the forces arraid against him.
I mean, there's a real there's a real lesson in that.
I mean, this guy is a force of nature. A
lot of what was thrown against him would have been
enough to break even some considerable formidable people out there,
and they just he just kept coming, He just kept coming.
(13:37):
There's a life lesson in that, you know, never give up.
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Speaker 4 (14:51):
Making America great again isn't just one man, It's many.
The Team forty seven podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in
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or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Oh, there's
so many different stories out there. We're gonna have to
dive into this cracker barrel story in a bit, but
I do think the Trump legal victories. We're gonna have
some audio from Letitia James here. Shortly, I did some
(15:28):
reading on the potential mortgage fraud that could be brought
against her, and I think it's possible they are gonna
be charges broad because she clearly lied on the on
the mortgage applications.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And I think.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Typically you don't allow lawyers to claim, oh, I just
I clicked the wrong box. As you know, you are
a lawyer, maybe you should avoid, you know, clicking the
so called wrong box. But I do wonder, as we're
all talking to you today, at some point in time,
(16:01):
if you had bought into Trump derangement syndrome, wouldn't you
have to sit back and think, boy, I've really been
lied to a lot. I mean, as Trump continues to
stack victories, he wins the popular vote, he moves in
votes in his direction in all fifty states, even in
New York.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
The Appeals Court, even in New.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
York, is like, this is a crazy town theory that
Tis James tried to bring the age of New York.
We're tossing the whole thing out. All of it is
going up in smoke. Who were they angry at? I mean,
I try to put myself in the head of the
childless cat lady out there that has been for a
decade now convinced that Trump is Hitler, and that he's
(16:47):
a unique threat to America and all these things. Wouldn't
you have to get angry at some point at someone
other than Trump and the people who have lied to
you and told you all of these things that are
clearly not I mean, I just I can't understand how
your brain could be. So at some point, wouldn't you
have to rationally say, Man, they've really played me for
(17:08):
a rube. They they they've made fun of me like
they I.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Don't, I just don't. I don't get it, Clay.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It's just it's a it's self fulfilling, it's the self
licking ice cream cone. They just go deeper into a
cocoon of despair. That's the that once you're on this
trajectory of Trump is worse than Hitler, and everything he
does is horrible, and any moment now, the country's gonna
fall apart. It's it's a catastrophism cycle in the brain.
These people, they don't they won't escape it. For the
(17:36):
most part, I think they're gonna stay. They're gonna stay
in it as long as they possibly can until Trump
is gone, and then it.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Will be Oh, I can't believe the country still exists.
We were so close to Trump destroying.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
The whole country and be like, yeah, all the peace
and prosperity that he brought it was so horrible.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I mean, the Charlie Brown analogy with the football applies.
It's also like someone who tells you the world's gonna
come to an end at some point. Don't you stop
believing that the world's gonna come to an end when
everything sun keeps coming up? I would think, so, something's
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Speaker 2 (18:55):
All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
A lot of news breaking, a lot of things happening,
So thanks, thanks for joining us here live and in
real time as we are making sense of it all
for you. Just dropping. Let me see when did this happen? Yeah,
right when we started the show today, right as we
came on air, Almost like he teed it up for
Clay and Buck. Donald Trump on truth social in regards
(19:18):
to the massive court victory, as Clay just pointed out
to me in the commercial break, five oh by the
Appellate Court in New York, all the judges saying this
entire let me just be clear, five oh against Trump
in New York. Those are judges they've been you know,
(19:39):
these are judges in a very blue state.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
These are judges.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Who I'm sure I haven't looked at who appointed them,
but some Obama appointees.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Probably there some Biden appointees or he had.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Let me point out this too, by the way, we
haven't had the time to read. There are three different
opinions among the five judges. So the whole thing is
just a clust I'm trying to avoid cursing. Yes, it's
a cluster, but it is to your point. Yes, I
mean a New York Court of Appeals siding with Trump
is I think they held this for a long time.
(20:12):
They didn't want to release it before the election. I
mean this, this timing is no coincidence. So Trump has
weighed in on truth social and it is a doozy.
This is a big truth, not a little truth.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Very large. Here we go. I'm gonna read some of
this to you.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Total victory, all caps in the fake New York State
Attorney General Letitia James case. I greatly respect the fact
that the court had the courage to throw out this
unlawful and disgraceful decision that was hurting business all throughout
New York State.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Others were afraid to do business there.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
The amount, including interest in penalties, was over five hundred
and fifty million dollars. It was a political witch hunt
in a business sense, the likes of which no one
has ever seen before. Case of election interferenced by the
city and state trying to show illegal that I did
things that were wrong when in fact, everything I did
was absolutely correct and even perfect. Every single dollar was
(21:09):
thrown out, even the penalties imposed on us by the
corrupt judge, one of the most overturned in history, Arthur
and Germ. I wasn't given a jury, and during the
course of the trial, which lasted a long time, was
not given one ruling in my favor by this political hack.
But worse than him, if possible, was Letitia James, a
corrupt and incompetent Attorney general who only brought this case
in order to hurt me politically. She is a Trump
(21:31):
deranged lunatic. They made me bomb. The outrageous sum which
never happened before, cost me millions of dollars a month.
It should have never been allowed to happen. Everyone knew it. Importantly,
the vote was five to zero. I'm so honored by
Justice David Friedman's great words of wisdom, which should be
read by everyone. I would also like to thank the
court for having the courage to make this decision, etc.
I mean to Clay, he talks about how these being
(21:55):
keeps going Trump post I got less than halfway through it. Everybody,
I mean it. I'll just say this. He is laying
Haymakers on this whole thing. Uh, and it is.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Uh. Now, look it's it's a huge win for Trump.
There's no question.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
It's a six hundred I think it's right, five hundred
million plus one hundred million basically in the everything together.
So call it a six hundred million dollar give or take,
no matter who you are, six hundred million dollars a
lot of money. Six hundred million dollars you were gonna
pay for what? Dude, who is this even being paid to?
You're gonna pay the State of New York because a
bunch of banks with you know, hundreds of billions on
(22:31):
the asset on the balance sheets or whatever. Said Trump's
a great guy to do business with. We would do
it again. This was one of I think you could
actually argue this was the craziest case because I know
people say, oh, eg and Carol, you know they talk
about it. Well, you know, anyone can accuse someone of
something from thirty years ago. This is why we actually
have a statute of limitations.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
That let me point out, on the Egen Carroll they
changed the statute of limitations to allow Trump to be
sued on this.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
The statute of limitations is a very im important. I
know sometimes people say, oh, but you know it feels no,
it's very important, okay, because it's unfair to a defendant.
And there are you know, there are places like murder
and other you know, extreme sex crimes and treason and
things like that. There are no statute limitations statutes, but
(23:21):
in general, if someone can accuse you of something from
twenty years ago or thirty years ago, a like, defending
yourself against this is very challenging, right, This is a
very hard thing to do because you know, for a
whole range of reasons, and also memories fade and the
evidence that's presented.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
My point is, even with all that, I.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Think that the I think the Letitia James case against
Trump was the most egregious abuse of the law in
a legal sense. I know it wasn't criminal, but I
think it were right you co signed this one. I
think it was the most You have got to be
bleeping kidding me. I cannot leave they are doing this. Well, yeah,
(24:02):
here's the way I would analyze it. I don't agree
with e. G.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And Carroll's lawsuit, but what she alleged, if it were true,
is a crime. The other two New York and remember
it was a civil case, but at least her allegations
would if they occurred, merit significant legal attention. There's no
victim in when you borrow money from a bank. First
(24:29):
of all, you're arguing that the bank is a victim.
Here the bank said they were not a victim and
they were paid back in full. And to your point, Buck,
does anybody who's ever taken out a loan from a
bank feel like the bank isn't adequately represented?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So so, can we talk about this for a second, actually,
because I do. I think that the mortgage fraud thing
and it's a very severe statute. That is, you know,
this is just the power and balance of banks versus
individuals going to prison for ten years because you could
have gotten a different interest, right if you checked a
few different boxes. I know it's I think it's I
think this is actually a statute totally apart from Trump.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And just James.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I think it's a pretty severe one unless it's a
systemic someone's doing this over and over again. Clearly there
are people who for pretty minor stuff they go they'll
serve the I think the average mortgage fraud sentence is
like two years in federal prison or something. I mean
you take you know, people get sent away for this. Yeah,
that's at least criminal.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
This is civil.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
So they didn't even attempt to charge him with a
criminal offense. They just said, you got a loan you
shouldn't have gotten in the opinion of the State of
New York, and we are as a result, going to
give the rate in our opinion that you should have paid.
And the difference between the rate that you should have
(25:52):
paid in the rate that you got is going to
be a fine to come back to the stadium.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Also suggestion.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
This is also to suggest that Tis James and her
team are better in retrospect assessors of real estate value,
not only than Donald Trump, but the banks who have
their own independence, Uh not inspection. What do you call
when someone comes Is it the assessor or no, it's the.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
More mortgage evaluator value the guy who valued whatever you
term for it.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
But uh yeah, my point the mortgage appraiser, the praiser.
That's the word. I'm gonna thank you appraiser. This is
this is absurd, right, I mean, these are people looked
at this said this is a great deal. It would
be like if Clay, if if you and I were
sitting there and we were we were buying a car
from from uh from Tiss James, and we said this
(26:46):
is the price and she said that's a great price.
And we paid that price and she says, great, I
got a good price on my car. You guys got
a car you like, everyone's happy. And then later she's like,
you know what, I'm gonna prosecute you guys. You paid
way too little for that car. It's like you you
agreed to the price of the car, like everyone was happy.
I don't understand it is it's.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Even crazier than that buck, because it's not even about
the deal. It's about Trump's politics, because they would have
never ever looked at this if he hadn't got involved
in politics.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So it was all it's all, it's all pretextual. But
the fact that this was even broad is madess. But
you know, when you bring up the kribble versus seminal kribble, sorry,
criminal versus civil separation, remember it's a it's a fit
for everybody. It's a fifty fifty one percent standard, which
is so so hugely different the e. G. And Carrol thing.
(27:37):
The standard the jury has is do you think it's
like a fifty better than fifty to fifty shot. This
lady's telling the truth on again on the sexual assault part,
not actually on on rape. I think there was a
distinction that was made in that in that case about it, right,
So essentially do you think it Do you think Trump
might have grabbed or groped this woman?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You know, that's different than did he actually forcibly penetrate
this woman, which I believe that was not. But he
was found right and that's where he went after Stephanopolis.
That wasn't even in the civil trial found to be
that they found that him did not he did not
do him this civile trial. Yeah, but but do you
think that maybe he groped this lady in and the
standard in a criminal trial it would be, guys, are
(28:15):
you absolutely I mean the real standard beyond a reasonable
that are you absolutely sure that Donald Trump grabbed this
woman thirty years ago and should possibly lose his freedom?
That's criminal civil it's hey, do you think he was
you know, grabbing this lady?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
We don't know, but like better than fifty to fifty,
huge difference.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, And that's why when they change the rules and
they use these civil things, they're just hoping to get
a jury that doesn't like Trump, that goes, yeah, whatever,
screw him.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
They were trying to bankrupt him, they were trying to
imprison him for life, they were trying to end his
political future. And now the shoe is on the other foot.
As Trump has said, in the first term, he was
the hunted. Now he's the hunter. And I do think
it's important to play back. Here is Letitia James bragging
in twenty twenty three, I'm going to come back to
all of you soon with a check for two hundred
(29:05):
and fifty million dollars. Remember they also tried to ban
him from doing business ever again in New York, and
my recollection is the Trump sons. The Trump sons were
banned from doing business in New York over this. I mean,
this was effectively an attempt to force Trump out of
New York. And honestly, when this all happened, I remember
(29:26):
we talked about it a lot on the show, but
I said, this is why I'm never leaving Tennessee. This
is I'm very comfortable living in my red state at Tennessee.
People that I'm not saying I'm going to be perfect,
but I don't have to worry about getting attacked like this.
This has cut twenty seven Letitia James bragging about taking
(29:48):
Trump's money.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Listen, I will be honored when I walk into that
courtroom on October tewod.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
My role is civil, and I will come back before
you soon with a check for two hundred and fifty
dollars and to let you know that he is no
longer allowed to do business in the state of New York. Yeah,
(30:22):
we got a We've got a special charge to show
up and stand up for one another.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
She's in trouble. She's in real trouble. If she weren't
in New York, she already would have lost her job.
And I know there's an investigation into her.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
But with this New York Appeals Court decision, I think
she's in trouble. I haven't forgotten about Alvin Bragg. I
know Trump has not either.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I know his DJ is investigating both of these individuals. Again,
I think the felonies are going to be tossed of
an on appeal in New York. I think the timing
on this is not coincidental. They held this for a year.
If I'm not mistaken to wait till after the election
to release this opinion. And I again, this is total
(31:17):
vindication for Trump, but I think he wants to take
the next step and send a message that total vindication for.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Him is not.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I mean, he still had to spend millions of dollars
in legal fees. He still had to tie up hundreds
of millions of dollars. I think he had to get
a bond of one hundred and fifty million dollars or
something to even appeal this. I understand why he wants
there to be consequences for Letitia James and why he
wants there to be consequences for Alvin Bragg. One more cutbuck.
(31:48):
This was Leticia James before all this happened, going on
the view and saying I'm gonna get Trump. Remember this
is unprecedented. Cut twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
You also intend to prosecute him after he is out
of office?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Correct?
Speaker 6 (32:02):
Our investigation currently is civil in nature, It is not criminal. Yes,
our civil suit will continue whether he's president or not.
And so after January twenty ath at twelve o'clock, our
investigation will continue. Joy, he cannot pardon himself. What he
could do is step down and allow the vice president.
(32:23):
Vice president Pence to pardon him. Now, it's important to
understand he has partnered from federal crimes, but he has
not partnered from state crimes. Last year, I introduced a
bill in the state legislature which would close the pardon
loophole so that individuals such as the president of the
United States would not evade justice. It's important that we
(32:44):
have this check on presidential powers.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
What there's so many things I would like to call
her that it would not be allowed on FCC broadcast.
But has she ever commented on Joe Biden's pardons.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
No, she's a horrible person just based on her actions.
I mean what she did.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Trump is a father, he's a grandfather, he's an American,
he's a patriot. And the glee she has trying to
he's a president and former president, current president h the
glee that she takes, and the and the sense of
pride she has and trying to destroy somebody over what
all this all this flowery language he's using about you know,
no one's above the law, and everything goes I'm sorry,
(33:22):
what's the law.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
That he broke?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Well, what's what's the bad thing that he did that
we need to punish the law that he broke as
being Trump and taking the fight to the left and
making Democrats sad at election time.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
That's the law that he.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Broke, and honestly having the misfortune to have done it
all while having many of his businesses registered in New York,
which I think the ultimate consequence of all of this
is a lot of people said, I'm not willing to
have my businesses based on in New York, where I
can be prosecuted if my politics don't end up aligning
(33:52):
with whoever is in power there. I think Elon Musk
saw this. I think it's why he's moved so much
of his assets to Texas. It's why I'm never in Tennessee.
Imagine it's one reason you're happy to be in Florida.
But I think a lot of people out there with
New York assets have made that decision. Look, I told
you about my trip to Legacy Box headquarters Chattanooga, Tennessee,
my mom's hometown. What a cool experience it was. It
(34:14):
was like being in a time capsule because they can
take all of your media eight millimeter films, VHS tapes,
old photographs, and they can digitize them and they have
different parts of their huge facility there in Chattanooga where
they are digitizing so many of these different so many
of these different products. In fact, I was talking with Adam,
(34:37):
one of the co founders there, and he said, look,
we basically are on eBay buying vhs, VCR VCRs all
the time. And he said, we got techs who can
put these things back working together because they're not making
more VCRs and we want to make sure that we
can preserve your family's memories.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
They do incredible work.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Right now before the holidays start, you can get fifty
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Go to legacybox dot com slash Clay fifty percent off
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Speaker 7 (35:17):
Sometimes all you can do is laugh, and they do
a lot of it with the Sunday Hang Join Clay
and Buck as they laugh it up in the Clay
and Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. You know,
you know if you listen to this show regularly, that
we're just not the kind of people who want to
throw anybody under a bus, just don't want to draw
attention to the staff when they screw up. It's just
not really kind of thing that we do on this program.
But yesterday producer Greg had us in the show with
(35:54):
a suicide hotline call, Ish, shall we play this at
the top of the next hour. I think maybe we do.
Maybe we let his punishment hang through the break. We're
at all in a great mood. Everybody across America was
high fiving. There was just a rainbow dropping, you know,
pot of gold. Everybody was in such a good mood.
And Producer Greg said, go to this. It's a great
(36:17):
way to finish the show. And it was all about
like suicide hotline calls and stuff. And I finished, and
I just, I mean, it was a dour moment, dark
cloud on a sunshiny day.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Can you also tell us about something, Clay, you have
more expertise than this in me because I have never
been to one. The outcry over the cracker barrel, Yes,
I'm gonna I'm to dive into this. I'm gonna crave
barrel has been changed. There's no barrel anymore, and there's
no Cracker. We will talk about it whenn't we come back.
(36:50):
Lots to get to Clay and Buck.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Come hang with us.
Welcome everybody to the Thursday edition of The Clay Travis
and Buck Sexton Show. A lot of news to dive into,
and we will do that with all of you. We
appreciate you hanging out with us, being ready to look
at all things that are mattering on this lovely Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
We can start with one here.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We have a we can put one on the board
for a Clay Travis prediction come true. He feels he's
got a little bit of the hot hand right now.
He's feeling feeling pretty smooth, feeling pretty on it. The
Court of Appeals in New York has tossed tossed the
five hundred million dollars civil fraud fine by Age Tish James.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
This is a breaking news today.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And I will say this is one where I was
Clay called this very early on and was he was vociferous,
he was unwavering. I thought this was possible, but not
as confidence. So I give the full predictive If both
of us one hundred percent agree on something it's not
I give.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
The full predictive value. Here.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
All points are worded to Clay on the prediction on
this one, because I thought it was kind of a
fifty to fifty and he said, they're absolutely going to
toss it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And now this is this is good.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
The Appellate Division, First Department in New York Credit where
it's due, did the obviously right thing. This was completely
a completely insane case, obvious political headhunting. Attorney General of
New York State Tiss James was, it was awful what
(01:37):
she did. It was disgraceful that she ran promising to
prosecute somebody or promising to find somebody, you know, bring
suit again civil suit in this case. And that they
that they said, Clay, I mean the things that came
out in this case. They that Trump valued mar A
Lago at five hundred and seventeen million dollars, and they
said it was twenty seven million dollars in twenty twenty.
(02:01):
Anybody with even a passing the vaguest familiarity with the
Palm Beach real estate market, you know, I don't know
what house you're gonna get on the water for twenty
seven million dollars in Palm Beach these days, Clay, it
was the abuse of law in the worst possible fashion.
(02:21):
And maybe the look he's president now, so maybe the
appellate court decided they weren't going to continue to poke
the dragon. But a good call by you, sir, take
a bow, for sure, and a good moment actually for
I know this sounds corny, perhaps it's true, a good
moment for law and order in this country, for the
rule of law in this country.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, for people who have forgotten.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And I know there are so many different legal proceedings.
We've joked kind of about this, but I never would
have believed when I went to law school that I
would end up just analyzing Trump legal cases for what
feels like a career oftentimes, because Trump two point zero
has primarily been driven the resistance has by the judiciary,
(03:05):
by the legal branch, and it all started as a
part of the twenty twenty four elections. So this particular case,
and I know there are so many of them that
it is hard to keep up, was brought by Letitia
James alleging mortgage fraud. And I'm trying to simplify this
a little bit, and she said the mortgage fraud was
that Trump inflated the assets that were under his control
(03:27):
to obtain a lower rate of the mortgage than he
otherwise should have. But and this is why the case
was really outlandish from the start. He paid all the
loans back, so there was no actual victim here.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Even worse, even worse than that Clay.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
He paid all the loans back with interest, and the
banks said they had no problem with this. They agreed
with his The banks did an independent assessment. They always do. Yes,
I mean this is anyone who's gotten a mortgage knows
it is a giant pain in the butt. The banks
do their own assessment. They want their own person going there. Clearly,
the bank said they would be this was part of
the court finalist. They would be eager to do business
(04:12):
with Trump again.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yes, So this was an incredibly strained legal theory to
begin with, because there was no victim, and so the
idea that Trump should have to pay back what five
over five hundred million dollars with interest. Now, she tried
to calculate what the rate, in her opinion, should have
(04:36):
been for the loans that Trump took out that he
ended up paying back, and that the banks said they
were very comfortable in the deal they did, and then
argued that that was a fraud perpetrated that the State
of New York needed to investigate, bring civil criminal penalties,
civil penalties against and the New York Court of Appeals
(04:57):
just said this is garbage. And here is where I
think we are headed. I think all these cases are
going to end up getting tossed. I think there are three.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Buck, because sometimes I get
kind of lost in the weeds on some of this too.
There are three New York state trials and or legal
proceedings of significance. There's probably more than this. One is
(05:20):
this one that was just tossed out the mortgage fraud.
The other one was the Egene Carroll civil suit relating
to allegations of sexual assault. I think that's going to
be tossed. I've explained why. And then is it thirty
four felony counts over bookkeeping fraud? It was thirty four, right,
(05:40):
not forty three. I can't remember which one of those
numbers are right. Yes, I think all three of these
are going to get tossed eventually. The felonies obviously, is
the only one that is criminal in nature, and it
is a sham case that is going to be tossed
on appeal the most likely if you had me rank
them to remain, if Trump were gonna lose one of these,
(06:03):
it would be the e Gene Carroll. But I just
at its baseline. Again, this goes into the weeds. I
don't understand how it's defamation to deny that you raped someone.
I mean, that seems that seems like fair, fair for
Trump to say, right.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
This would mean this would mean that in any case,
by the way, your defense would make you lie, liable
for a liable for the defense itself. Right, and I
didn't do this thing. Let's have a trial. Oh, we're
gonna find you guilty. And by the way, because you
said you didn't do it, we're also gonna sue you
because of what you said in court. I mean, I
(06:39):
don't understand how it's It is crazy. And let me
be even clearer on this, because this we've seen a
lawsuit over George Stephanopolos. Of this, Trump was actually, in
a civil context found not to have committed rape. That is,
the jury found it more likely than not in a
civil context that he did not commit a rape. They
(06:59):
did find it more likely than not that he had
engaged in sexual assault. So he then said, this is
where the additional lawsuit and additional damages came buck. After
this verdict, he said, well, that's not true. I didn't,
you know, rape her, I didn't sexually assault her. And
then she's lying about that, and then she sued him
(07:21):
again saying, well, he defamed her based on the ruling
that she had gotten. So again, I just think that
case is garbage. We're seeing the Letitia James mortgage case
is officially basically from the New York Court of Appeals garbage.
And I think all the felony charges are going to
get tossed to Now. A lot of you may say,
(07:42):
I don't even care Trump's in office all these things.
I do think the court's rulings here matter because the
precedent they put in place when they went after Trump.
If you happen to be a Republican and live in
a blue state, or candidly, if you happen to be
in a Democrat and run in a red state, we
can't allow your politics to become proxy for civil and
(08:03):
criminal liability just based on what you happen to believe.
In my opinion, Trump stomped on law fair the same
way that he's stomped on MSNBC and CNN and accomplish
things that I don't think many of us believed were
even possible years ago.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
In both In both of those instances.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The fact that you had it was four criminal trials
or four criminal prosecutions rather and multiple civil suits all
timed to hit him at the same time and while
he's running for president, and that he will emerge from
all of that Clay essentially now. I know there's still
(08:43):
the New York case, but that one I agree with you.
I mean, there's gonna be there's gonna be no punishment
that they He's the president. They can't do anything right now,
and there's gonna be no punishment for it. And I
think eventually that's gonna be overturned as well. He's going
to emerge on scaths from all of this, yes.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Which is which is incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Uh And and it also goes to I think the
desperation that the Democrats feel right now, because what happens
when you've thrown everything in the kitchen sink and the
other guy just grins and keeps coming. That's exactly what
Trump did. They did everything they could abuse the system
in ways we have never seen before as a country,
(09:19):
and Trumps president more popular than he's ever been. His
base is more behind him than they've ever been. If
that's even possible, and what have they got Davin Newsom
trying to create cool guy memes of himself and posting
them online.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I mean, whatever you think of Trump, I don't know
that we have ever seen someone take this degree of
attack and just keep moving forward and ultimately vanquish everybody
who tried to fight against him. I mean, at this point,
you're going to like this pop culture reference. It feels
(09:59):
like Trump is Neo and the Matrix buck. It feels
like he has just learned how to move at a
different speed and how to handle attack for those of
you who have seen the movie, in a way that
is unprecedented, and where he can basically turn on his
foes and just utterly vanquish them and look I do.
(10:25):
The one thing I will say is I really admire
Trump because there were so many cowards who refuse to
stand up for Trump that now are showing up and
kissing the ring. He's been the cover for a lot
of companies out there that knew that their woke employees
were engaging in ridiculous insubordination that undercut the very fabric
(10:49):
of the company's culture itself, and he is making so
much of American society better because they're using him as
the cover and saying, well, you know, Trump won, we
have to do this. They're doing what they know to
be right because Trump has given them the cover to
do it. And I just think the Trump story for
(11:12):
decades to come is actually going to get more impressive
because so many people out there are caught up in
the political moment day to day and they've just decided
they hate Trump. And as that fades, I think Trump
is going to become an even more iconic figure than
he is as we speak about him on this day.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
This is a man who, at no point during the
effort to destroy him, destroy his his legacy, his reputation,
take away his freedom, tried to bankrupt him. I mean
it's five hundred million, I think, plus some one hundred
million in interest. Now Trump has a lot of money,
but that hurts anybody cash, Okay, I've even when was
(11:51):
the last time you heard him a fine for an
individual that big? I might add, I mean, how much
money could he have possibly made? It's a sofferential have
been with these loans, if they had even been There's
no way it would bonkers buck. I mean, they went
back in time to the date of the initial loan
and decided to create their own loan amount, sorry loan rate,
(12:14):
and then charge him interest on that. For I mean,
it's one of the most hair brained legal schemes I've
ever seen. And again it is Trump derangement syndrome inside
of a courtroom. And I honestly think Letitia James should
be disbarred over some of the legal arguments.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That she has made.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And if somebody, if she as has been alleged, was
involved in mortgage actual clear mortgage bought herself, she should
spend some time in a prison. That should actually happen
because she sent other people to prison for that while
she was ag no problem with that. Why shouldn't she
go She would send any of you if you checked,
you know it's my primary residence, then it's not and
you got a better rate, and she would she would
(12:55):
send you to prison. But she doesn't go to prison.
But just one more note on Trump Clay. During this
whole process, never once did you see this guy. And
he's in the public all the time. He's showing up
for the mug shot and he got shot as we
know in Butler, Pennsylvania. Never once did you see this
guy despair. Never once did you see him claim that
(13:16):
he's he's unable to handle all the forces arraid against him.
I mean, there's a real there's a real lesson in that.
I mean, this guy is a force of nature. A
lot of what was thrown against him would have been
enough to break even some considerable formidable people out there,
and they just he just kept coming, He just kept coming.
(13:37):
There's a life lesson in that, you know, never give up.
All right. We spent time yesterday in the program discussing
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Speaker 4 (14:51):
Making America great again isn't just one man, It's many.
The Team forty seven podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in
the Clay podcast Feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Oh, there's
so many different stories out there. We're gonna have to
dive into this cracker barrel story in a bit, but
I do think the Trump legal victories. We're gonna have
some audio from Letitia James here. Shortly, I did some
(15:28):
reading on the potential mortgage fraud that could be brought
against her, and I think it's possible they are gonna
be charges broad because she clearly lied on the on
the mortgage applications.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And I think.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Typically you don't allow lawyers to claim, oh, I just
I clicked the wrong box. As you know, you are
a lawyer, maybe you should avoid, you know, clicking the
so called wrong box. But I do wonder, as we're
all talking to you today, at some point in time,
(16:01):
if you had bought into Trump derangement syndrome, wouldn't you
have to sit back and think, boy, I've really been
lied to a lot. I mean, as Trump continues to
stack victories, he wins the popular vote, he moves in
votes in his direction in all fifty states, even in
New York.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
The Appeals Court, even in New.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
York, is like, this is a crazy town theory that
Tis James tried to bring the age of New York.
We're tossing the whole thing out. All of it is
going up in smoke. Who were they angry at? I mean,
I try to put myself in the head of the
childless cat lady out there that has been for a
decade now convinced that Trump is Hitler, and that he's
(16:47):
a unique threat to America and all these things. Wouldn't
you have to get angry at some point at someone
other than Trump and the people who have lied to
you and told you all of these things that are
clearly not I mean, I just I can't understand how
your brain could be. So at some point, wouldn't you
have to rationally say, Man, they've really played me for
(17:08):
a rube. They they they've made fun of me like
they I.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Don't, I just don't. I don't get it, Clay.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It's just it's a it's self fulfilling, it's the self
licking ice cream cone. They just go deeper into a
cocoon of despair. That's the that once you're on this
trajectory of Trump is worse than Hitler, and everything he
does is horrible, and any moment now, the country's gonna
fall apart. It's it's a catastrophism cycle in the brain.
These people, they don't they won't escape it. For the
(17:36):
most part, I think they're gonna stay. They're gonna stay
in it as long as they possibly can until Trump
is gone, and then it.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Will be Oh, I can't believe the country still exists.
We were so close to Trump destroying.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
The whole country and be like, yeah, all the peace
and prosperity that he brought it was so horrible.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I mean, the Charlie Brown analogy with the football applies.
It's also like someone who tells you the world's gonna
come to an end at some point. Don't you stop
believing that the world's gonna come to an end when
everything sun keeps coming up? I would think, so, something's
gonna keep coming up. If you go to Good Ranchers
right now, no antibiotics, no hormones, no seed oils, kind
of food you want to serve to your family. Founders
(18:14):
of Good Ranchers Ben and his wife Corley, started the
business because they wanted to feed their four kids the
best of the best. This is all meat from the
United States. Whether you like steaks, whether you like chicken,
whether you like salmon, chicken wings, chicken nuggets, whatever you
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(18:37):
for the first time and use my name Clay, you'll
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good ranchers dot com. Use code Clay. That's good Ranchers
dot com. Code Clay to get hooked up today.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
A lot of news breaking, a lot of things happening,
So thanks, thanks for joining us here live and in
real time as we are making sense of it all
for you. Just dropping. Let me see when did this happen? Yeah,
right when we started the show today, right as we
came on air, Almost like he teed it up for
Clay and Buck. Donald Trump on truth social in regards
(19:18):
to the massive court victory, as Clay just pointed out
to me in the commercial break, five oh by the
Appellate Court in New York, all the judges saying this
entire let me just be clear, five oh against Trump
in New York. Those are judges they've been you know,
(19:39):
these are judges in a very blue state.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
These are judges.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Who I'm sure I haven't looked at who appointed them,
but some Obama appointees.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Probably there some Biden appointees or he had.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Let me point out this too, by the way, we
haven't had the time to read. There are three different
opinions among the five judges. So the whole thing is
just a clust I'm trying to avoid cursing. Yes, it's
a cluster, but it is to your point. Yes, I
mean a New York Court of Appeals siding with Trump
is I think they held this for a long time.
(20:12):
They didn't want to release it before the election. I
mean this, this timing is no coincidence. So Trump has
weighed in on truth social and it is a doozy.
This is a big truth, not a little truth.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Very large. Here we go. I'm gonna read some of
this to you.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Total victory, all caps in the fake New York State
Attorney General Letitia James case. I greatly respect the fact
that the court had the courage to throw out this
unlawful and disgraceful decision that was hurting business all throughout
New York State.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Others were afraid to do business there.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
The amount, including interest in penalties, was over five hundred
and fifty million dollars. It was a political witch hunt
in a business sense, the likes of which no one
has ever seen before. Case of election interferenced by the
city and state trying to show illegal that I did
things that were wrong when in fact, everything I did
was absolutely correct and even perfect. Every single dollar was
(21:09):
thrown out, even the penalties imposed on us by the
corrupt judge, one of the most overturned in history, Arthur
and Germ. I wasn't given a jury, and during the
course of the trial, which lasted a long time, was
not given one ruling in my favor by this political hack.
But worse than him, if possible, was Letitia James, a
corrupt and incompetent Attorney general who only brought this case
in order to hurt me politically. She is a Trump
(21:31):
deranged lunatic. They made me bomb. The outrageous sum which
never happened before, cost me millions of dollars a month.
It should have never been allowed to happen. Everyone knew it. Importantly,
the vote was five to zero. I'm so honored by
Justice David Friedman's great words of wisdom, which should be
read by everyone. I would also like to thank the
court for having the courage to make this decision, etc.
I mean to Clay, he talks about how these being
(21:55):
keeps going Trump post I got less than halfway through it. Everybody,
I mean it. I'll just say this. He is laying
Haymakers on this whole thing. Uh, and it is.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Uh. Now, look it's it's a huge win for Trump.
There's no question.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
It's a six hundred I think it's right, five hundred
million plus one hundred million basically in the everything together.
So call it a six hundred million dollar give or take,
no matter who you are, six hundred million dollars a
lot of money. Six hundred million dollars you were gonna
pay for what? Dude, who is this even being paid to?
You're gonna pay the State of New York because a
bunch of banks with you know, hundreds of billions on
(22:31):
the asset on the balance sheets or whatever. Said Trump's
a great guy to do business with. We would do
it again. This was one of I think you could
actually argue this was the craziest case because I know
people say, oh, eg and Carol, you know they talk
about it. Well, you know, anyone can accuse someone of
something from thirty years ago. This is why we actually
have a statute of limitations.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
That let me point out, on the Egen Carroll they
changed the statute of limitations to allow Trump to be
sued on this.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
The statute of limitations is a very im important. I
know sometimes people say, oh, but you know it feels no,
it's very important, okay, because it's unfair to a defendant.
And there are you know, there are places like murder
and other you know, extreme sex crimes and treason and
things like that. There are no statute limitations statutes, but
(23:21):
in general, if someone can accuse you of something from
twenty years ago or thirty years ago, a like, defending
yourself against this is very challenging, right, This is a
very hard thing to do because you know, for a
whole range of reasons, and also memories fade and the
evidence that's presented.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
My point is, even with all that, I.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Think that the I think the Letitia James case against
Trump was the most egregious abuse of the law in
a legal sense. I know it wasn't criminal, but I
think it were right you co signed this one. I
think it was the most You have got to be
bleeping kidding me. I cannot leave they are doing this. Well, yeah,
(24:02):
here's the way I would analyze it. I don't agree
with e. G.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And Carroll's lawsuit, but what she alleged, if it were true,
is a crime. The other two New York and remember
it was a civil case, but at least her allegations
would if they occurred, merit significant legal attention. There's no
victim in when you borrow money from a bank. First
(24:29):
of all, you're arguing that the bank is a victim.
Here the bank said they were not a victim and
they were paid back in full. And to your point, Buck,
does anybody who's ever taken out a loan from a
bank feel like the bank isn't adequately represented?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So so, can we talk about this for a second, actually,
because I do. I think that the mortgage fraud thing
and it's a very severe statute. That is, you know,
this is just the power and balance of banks versus
individuals going to prison for ten years because you could
have gotten a different interest, right if you checked a
few different boxes. I know it's I think it's I
think this is actually a statute totally apart from Trump.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And just James.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I think it's a pretty severe one unless it's a
systemic someone's doing this over and over again. Clearly there
are people who for pretty minor stuff they go they'll
serve the I think the average mortgage fraud sentence is
like two years in federal prison or something. I mean
you take you know, people get sent away for this. Yeah,
that's at least criminal.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
This is civil.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
So they didn't even attempt to charge him with a
criminal offense. They just said, you got a loan you
shouldn't have gotten in the opinion of the State of
New York, and we are as a result, going to
give the rate in our opinion that you should have paid.
And the difference between the rate that you should have
(25:52):
paid in the rate that you got is going to
be a fine to come back to the stadium.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Also suggestion.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
This is also to suggest that Tis James and her
team are better in retrospect assessors of real estate value,
not only than Donald Trump, but the banks who have
their own independence, Uh not inspection. What do you call
when someone comes Is it the assessor or no, it's the.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
More mortgage evaluator value the guy who valued whatever you
term for it.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
But uh yeah, my point the mortgage appraiser, the praiser.
That's the word. I'm gonna thank you appraiser. This is
this is absurd, right, I mean, these are people looked
at this said this is a great deal. It would
be like if Clay, if if you and I were
sitting there and we were we were buying a car
from from uh from Tiss James, and we said this
(26:46):
is the price and she said that's a great price.
And we paid that price and she says, great, I
got a good price on my car. You guys got
a car you like, everyone's happy. And then later she's like,
you know what, I'm gonna prosecute you guys. You paid
way too little for that car. It's like you you
agreed to the price of the car, like everyone was happy.
I don't understand it is it's.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Even crazier than that buck, because it's not even about
the deal. It's about Trump's politics, because they would have
never ever looked at this if he hadn't got involved
in politics.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So it was all it's all, it's all pretextual. But
the fact that this was even broad is madess. But
you know, when you bring up the kribble versus seminal kribble, sorry,
criminal versus civil separation, remember it's a it's a fit
for everybody. It's a fifty fifty one percent standard, which
is so so hugely different the e. G. And Carrol thing.
(27:37):
The standard the jury has is do you think it's
like a fifty better than fifty to fifty shot. This
lady's telling the truth on again on the sexual assault part,
not actually on on rape. I think there was a
distinction that was made in that in that case about it, right,
So essentially do you think it Do you think Trump
might have grabbed or groped this woman?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You know, that's different than did he actually forcibly penetrate
this woman, which I believe that was not. But he
was found right and that's where he went after Stephanopolis.
That wasn't even in the civil trial found to be
that they found that him did not he did not
do him this civile trial. Yeah, but but do you
think that maybe he groped this lady in and the
standard in a criminal trial it would be, guys, are
(28:15):
you absolutely I mean the real standard beyond a reasonable
that are you absolutely sure that Donald Trump grabbed this
woman thirty years ago and should possibly lose his freedom?
That's criminal civil it's hey, do you think he was
you know, grabbing this lady?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
We don't know, but like better than fifty to fifty,
huge difference.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, And that's why when they change the rules and
they use these civil things, they're just hoping to get
a jury that doesn't like Trump, that goes, yeah, whatever,
screw him.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
They were trying to bankrupt him, they were trying to
imprison him for life, they were trying to end his
political future. And now the shoe is on the other foot.
As Trump has said, in the first term, he was
the hunted. Now he's the hunter. And I do think
it's important to play back. Here is Letitia James bragging
in twenty twenty three, I'm going to come back to
all of you soon with a check for two hundred
(29:05):
and fifty million dollars. Remember they also tried to ban
him from doing business ever again in New York, and
my recollection is the Trump sons. The Trump sons were
banned from doing business in New York over this. I mean,
this was effectively an attempt to force Trump out of
New York. And honestly, when this all happened, I remember
(29:26):
we talked about it a lot on the show, but
I said, this is why I'm never leaving Tennessee. This
is I'm very comfortable living in my red state at Tennessee.
People that I'm not saying I'm going to be perfect,
but I don't have to worry about getting attacked like this.
This has cut twenty seven Letitia James bragging about taking
(29:48):
Trump's money.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Listen, I will be honored when I walk into that
courtroom on October tewod.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
My role is civil, and I will come back before
you soon with a check for two hundred and fifty
dollars and to let you know that he is no
longer allowed to do business in the state of New York. Yeah,
(30:22):
we got a We've got a special charge to show
up and stand up for one another.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
She's in trouble. She's in real trouble. If she weren't
in New York, she already would have lost her job.
And I know there's an investigation into her.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
But with this New York Appeals Court decision, I think
she's in trouble. I haven't forgotten about Alvin Bragg. I
know Trump has not either.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I know his DJ is investigating both of these individuals. Again,
I think the felonies are going to be tossed of
an on appeal in New York. I think the timing
on this is not coincidental. They held this for a year.
If I'm not mistaken to wait till after the election
to release this opinion. And I again, this is total
(31:17):
vindication for Trump, but I think he wants to take
the next step and send a message that total vindication for.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Him is not.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I mean, he still had to spend millions of dollars
in legal fees. He still had to tie up hundreds
of millions of dollars. I think he had to get
a bond of one hundred and fifty million dollars or
something to even appeal this. I understand why he wants
there to be consequences for Letitia James and why he
wants there to be consequences for Alvin Bragg. One more cutbuck.
(31:48):
This was Leticia James before all this happened, going on
the view and saying I'm gonna get Trump. Remember this
is unprecedented. Cut twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
You also intend to prosecute him after he is out
of office?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Correct?
Speaker 6 (32:02):
Our investigation currently is civil in nature, It is not criminal. Yes,
our civil suit will continue whether he's president or not.
And so after January twenty ath at twelve o'clock, our
investigation will continue. Joy, he cannot pardon himself. What he
could do is step down and allow the vice president.
(32:23):
Vice president Pence to pardon him. Now, it's important to
understand he has partnered from federal crimes, but he has
not partnered from state crimes. Last year, I introduced a
bill in the state legislature which would close the pardon
loophole so that individuals such as the president of the
United States would not evade justice. It's important that we
(32:44):
have this check on presidential powers.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
What there's so many things I would like to call
her that it would not be allowed on FCC broadcast.
But has she ever commented on Joe Biden's pardons.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
No, she's a horrible person just based on her actions.
I mean what she did.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Trump is a father, he's a grandfather, he's an American,
he's a patriot. And the glee she has trying to
he's a president and former president, current president h the
glee that she takes, and the and the sense of
pride she has and trying to destroy somebody over what
all this all this flowery language he's using about you know,
no one's above the law, and everything goes I'm sorry,
(33:22):
what's the law.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
That he broke?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Well, what's what's the bad thing that he did that
we need to punish the law that he broke as
being Trump and taking the fight to the left and
making Democrats sad at election time.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
That's the law that he.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Broke, and honestly having the misfortune to have done it
all while having many of his businesses registered in New York,
which I think the ultimate consequence of all of this
is a lot of people said, I'm not willing to
have my businesses based on in New York, where I
can be prosecuted if my politics don't end up aligning
(33:52):
with whoever is in power there. I think Elon Musk
saw this. I think it's why he's moved so much
of his assets to Texas. It's why I'm never in Tennessee.
Imagine it's one reason you're happy to be in Florida.
But I think a lot of people out there with
New York assets have made that decision. Look, I told
you about my trip to Legacy Box headquarters Chattanooga, Tennessee,
my mom's hometown. What a cool experience it was. It
(34:14):
was like being in a time capsule because they can
take all of your media eight millimeter films, VHS tapes,
old photographs, and they can digitize them and they have
different parts of their huge facility there in Chattanooga where
they are digitizing so many of these different so many
of these different products. In fact, I was talking with Adam,
(34:37):
one of the co founders there, and he said, look,
we basically are on eBay buying vhs, VCR VCRs all
the time. And he said, we got techs who can
put these things back working together because they're not making
more VCRs and we want to make sure that we
can preserve your family's memories.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
They do incredible work.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Right now before the holidays start, you can get fifty
p off your order.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You get the originals back. It's very easy to use.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Go to legacybox dot com slash Clay fifty percent off
your order. That's the legacybox dot com slash Clay one
more time, Legacy box dot com slash Clay.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
Sometimes all you can do is laugh, and they do
a lot of it with the Sunday Hang Join Clay
and Buck as they laugh it up in the Clay
and Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. You know,
you know if you listen to this show regularly, that
we're just not the kind of people who want to
throw anybody under a bus, just don't want to draw
attention to the staff when they screw up. It's just
not really kind of thing that we do on this program.
But yesterday producer Greg had us in the show with
(35:54):
a suicide hotline call, Ish, shall we play this at
the top of the next hour. I think maybe we do.
Maybe we let his punishment hang through the break. We're
at all in a great mood. Everybody across America was
high fiving. There was just a rainbow dropping, you know,
pot of gold. Everybody was in such a good mood.
And Producer Greg said, go to this. It's a great
(36:17):
way to finish the show. And it was all about
like suicide hotline calls and stuff. And I finished, and
I just, I mean, it was a dour moment, dark
cloud on a sunshiny day.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Can you also tell us about something, Clay, you have
more expertise than this in me because I have never
been to one. The outcry over the cracker barrel, Yes,
I'm gonna I'm to dive into this. I'm gonna crave
barrel has been changed. There's no barrel anymore, and there's
no Cracker. We will talk about it whenn't we come back.
(36:50):
Lots to get to Clay and Buck.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Come hang with us.
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