September 10, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode, Ericka Anderson shares her journey of sobriety, the impact of faith on her recovery, and her experiences as a writer. She discusses her books, 'Leaving Cloud Nine' and 'Freely Sober', and emphasizes the importance of being transparent about alcohol's effects, especially in parenting. The conversation explores cultural attitudes towards drinking and offers insights for young people navigating these challenges. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Wednesday & Friday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to the Cheryl Markowich Show on iHeartRadio Shows.
My guest today is Erica Anderson. Erica is a writer
who has written for Christianity Today, New York Times, Wall
Street Journal, and others. Her book Leaving Cloud Nine, The
True story of a life resurrected from the ashes of poverty, trauma,
and mental illness, is available now, and her upcoming book
(00:25):
Freely Sober is available for pre order before it's January
released anywhere you buy your books. Hi, Erica, so nice
to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
So I've known you online for a number of years,
and I remember when you first started talking about your
sobriety journey. One was that was that difficult for you?
And what made you start opening up about that?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think I probably originally started talking about it the
first time I really tried to get sober, which was
I would say early twenty nineteen something like that. And
the reason I sort of, you know, dipped a toe
where I wasn't like really going all out talking about it,
but I was kind of talking about how maybe I'm
not as comfortable with alcohol as I thought I was.
(01:14):
But for me, it is just part of who I am.
To sort of share what I'm going through online. That's
not for everybody. But as I became more immersed in,
you know, deciding that I wasn't going to be drinking anymore,
I knew it had to in part become a part
of my identity.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
At least for a while. To say.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I had heard from others to say to say I
don't drink, Like even if you still are drinking, you're
still struggling, to just even say I don't drink or
I'm sober, to just say that it actually helps ingrain
it to who you are and actually empowers you to
make better choices even in the midst.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Of a struggle.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And so that is what sort of inspired me to
just start talking about it, and I kind of it
just sort of followed God like he was I felt
like giving me this courage to talk about it, and
I thought, I don't think everyone has this. I do
think we need voices, and He's telling me, like, let's
do it, let's go, and so I just kind of
(02:14):
went with that, despite knowing that I was feeling a
little bit self conscious with everybody. I sure, yea being.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
This online, Yeah, it's a big deal to tell people
stories about it. I think even you had one recently
that you know, again, I've been following you a long time,
I've known all this about you for a long time.
But you had one recently that was even like surprising
or shocking to me where you talked about during your
work day going out and buying miniature bottles of alcohol.
(02:46):
And I had, you know, I guess, I, look, I
have to be honest, I don't know that much about alcoholism.
I guess this is this is sort of a learning
curve for me too. But I always thought it was like, oh,
you just thought that the whole mom wine culture was
you know, harmful, and that was what turned you towards sobriety.
I guess I didn't realize that you'd had, you know,
had a real problem.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, that was that story was.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I felt really nervous to share that because I just
knew people that I used to work with during.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That time maybe like wait what yeah, like.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
What I had to No, I yeah, I know, And
it's it's so it's such a weird thing looking back
and seeing that, but it I shared it because it
goes to show you that people that are struggling can
be hiding in plain sight. You know, you just because
someone is drinking during the day doesn't mean you're going
to know it.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And it's not something I.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Was doing every day, but the fact that I was
doing it at all, and just like the sensationalism of
it being oh, this isn't like the US Capitol building
and you know, I'm working for some member of Congress
and like.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
What what in the world is happening here?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And so I, you know, share these little tidbits and
stories to really make people feel seen. And that's not
to say you need to be sneaking alcohol at work
to quit drinking or have a problem at all, but
I think sometimes it's helpful to those that maybe are
in those situations to hear like, oh, like actually Erica
was doing stuff like this too, and like look at
(04:14):
her now, right.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
How much of a role did your faith play in
your sober journey?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah? I think huge.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I mean I think getting sober was important for me
as a whole. But also I really felt that alcohol
muddied this relationship I had with God, Like this sort
of being in touch with Him was very blurried when
I was drinking a lot, like I couldn't hear his voice.
I wasn't able to sense maybe the way that God
(04:46):
works in our lives on a daily basis. You miss
those little things because there's a person in the Bible,
I think in the Old Testament that says something like God,
God doesn't. God never yells, He's more like a whisper.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Tell the story about you know, there was I'm like
blanking on the person's name.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
It was probably Moses, but somebody did on a mountain,
and Moses.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Was frequently on mountains.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, exactly what it.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Might have been him, But he's on the mountain right,
And you know they say like God wasn't He wasn't
in the wind, and he wasn't in the storm, and
he wasn't in the thunder. He was just like a
still small voice. And you miss a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
If you're dremking. You can't sense those things.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
And you also can't sense like the needs of those
around you, whether it's like a tone change in your
kid's voice or your spouse or your friend. And like
you really can't be the person that you want to
be when you are constantly putting a substance in your
body that alters your mental state.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
What do you hope that people get out of Freely Sober?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I hope that you know.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
A promise that I like to make in the book is,
once you read this book, you'll never think about alcohol
the same way again.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So it's not a call to quit drinking.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And like you know, oh my gosh, like you if
you buy this book, like I want you to quit drinking,
that's not what it is. That's why it's called freely
Sober because we yeah, yeah, because you know, every minute
that I told myself I have to stop drinking and
I have to stop drinking, like that was paralyzing and
it was actually the barrier to actually quitting drinking. But
when you step away and actually analyze yourself, your relationship
(06:25):
with alcohol, your history like under like learn about alcohol
and how it's played a role in your life, then
you can actually, if you want, you can choose not
to drink because of what you've learned.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And I think reading.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
This book, and this is kind of how it happened
for me and reading other books, I walked away, you'll
walk away knowing like you can't unknow what you just learned.
And when you learn something about the way this is
impacting you and the way that it impacts society as well,
Like it's almost impossible to keep making the same decisions. Yeah,
(06:59):
because you know better, And that doesn't mean you quit
necessarily right away, but it does mean you step forward
and a better direction that maybe leads you.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
To where you need to be in the future.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
But when you tell yourself you have to quit drinking,
it leaves no room to want to quit drinking. And
I want to create that space for people so that
they actually maybe want to but not have to.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Very interesting and I really think that's an interesting point,
the freely part, and that you can want to but
not have to. That's very well said. What was Leaving
Cloud Nine? What was the Cloud Nine that you had
to leave in writing that book?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, So Leaving Cloud Nine was sort of a joint
book really. I wrote it, but it was really about
my husband and the trailer park that he grew up
in is called Cloud Nine in Arizona, and.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So we wrote this book.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I mean it really started as just like a you know,
a far fetched idea that we could actually write and
publish this book. But essentially it was about his story
of growing up in poverty and abuse, and you talk
about adverse childhood effects. If anybody's familiar with those, the aces,
like he had nine out of ten of those, and
so his childhood was Every time he would tell me
a story, I was like, oh my gosh, like.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
We have got to talk about this somehow.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And I ended up spending hours interviewing him, ultimately attempting
to get a book deal, like shockingly actually getting one
and turning it into this book, this story of his
healing and redemption through his faith and all the things
that he went through as a child and then as
an adult, and it sort of comes full circle with
the birth of our son at the very end of
(08:33):
the book. But I often compare it to I say,
it's kind of like a faith based Till Billy eleogy,
a lot of very similar elements.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I was thinking this, Yeah, you know, like when.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I've seen jd.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Vance and interviews, and you know, I just know a
lot about his story from reading that.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I just think I'm always like, oh, you and jd.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Vance would have so much to talk about. You guys
would because my husband was also in the military, and
you know, a lot of just things that line up,
and so yeah, it was an amazing experience to be
able to write that, and so we still to this day,
we'll get emails from people that are saying, you know,
I really appreciated you writing that because there's so much
in my own story that I saw there and to
(09:15):
see the redemption that happened, to see what's possible, Like
that's that's a really cool thing to read about.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Did you always want to be a writer?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I did, you know?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I always say, like from the time I was, you know,
six years old and I got my first Ballerina diary
with a little key lock and key, I always wanted
to be a writer.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I went to journalism school, and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Get to be an actual I would say, like real
writer's where I'm like really writing my own stuff, like
in publishing. It until really more about the time that
that book came out, and then I started to recognize it's.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
A great way to be a real writer, write a book.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, that helps, I mean, and thankfully I was exposed
to lots of great networks of people in DC working
at Heritage and National Review. That was like it kind
of just showed me what was possible. I didn't even realize,
I thought. I finally thought to myself, actually like normal
people like me can actually get their writing scene and
published and you can get paid for that. And so
(10:13):
it's been like a really fun journey over the past
like six seven years to experiment with that and do
it and put it out there and realize that our
words and you know this, Carol of course as a columnist,
like we they're so powerful. It's so much more powerful
than anything you could pay for, anything you could rant
about on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
When you know, twenty five people see it.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
When you get your words published and you say something
and you say something that matters in thousands or more
people see it, like that's actually making a real difference.
And so I'm so passionate about getting people out there
to do more of that.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
What would have been like a plan be if the
writing career got them together.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Well, I've always worked in you know, the communications world,
and so my as a freelancer, half my life is
so in digital media strategies. So I guess the planned
is sort of also in action simultaneously.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
So we're going to take a quick break and be
right back on the Carol Markowitz Show. It was nearly
two years ago that terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred
innocent Israelis and took two hundred and fifty hostages. Today
it seems as if the cries of the dead and
dying have been drowned out by shouts of Antisemitic hatred,
(11:27):
and the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the
Holocaust has been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away,
a light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of
love and support for the people of Israel called Flags
of Fellowship, and it's organized by the International Fellowship of
Christians and Jews. And on October fifth, just a few
(11:48):
weeks away, millions across America will prayer fully plant an
Israeli flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of
October seventh, twenty twenty three. And they're grieving families. And
now you can be part of the movement too. To
get more information about how you can join the Flags
of Fellowship movement, visit the fellowship online at IFCJ dot org.
(12:13):
That's IFCJ dot org. Was there a road that you
thought about taking that you didn't take or do you
feel like you have gone all the ways that you've
wanted to go?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
You know, the only thing I say is that when
I first started out in Washington, DC as an intern
back in two thousand and six, I was really afraid.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I didn't know what I was doing, and.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I mean, who among us right, right?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
But I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have a guide,
and I don't know, Like today, I feel so fearless
and I will call anybody, I will interview anybody.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
I will.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
The one thing I say is I'm always like, I
don't think I could go on.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Bill Maher because I'd be afraid, like even though I'd
actually love Bill Maher, but I'd be like so afraid
that I'd get like a question that I couldn't answer
and I'd be embarrassed. So but outside of that, you know,
I feel so fearless in a lot of those ways,
and so I kind of just wish that back in
those early days, I had had a mentor, I'd had
someone sort of guiding me. Because I had some like
(13:14):
really early success. I wrote for Human Events and you know,
had a couple like TV, your parents and stuff, but
it was so nerve acking that I just kind of
ran away from it all and I didn't really develop
my passion for what I do now until later. So
I kind of wish I had been able to leverage that.
But otherwise, like, I mean, everything has gone amazing. You know,
(13:34):
I get to be a mom to my two kids,
which is like my favorite, most important job of course,
and so I wouldn't change anything about that pathway.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
What do you worry about having enough.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Money for retirement? That's one thing, Yeah, I mean, you know,
constantly saving it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I asked that question to all of my guests, and
you know, the range of answers could be anything, but
I have to say nobody said. Nobody said retirement.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yet that's one It's not my biggest fear.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
But bigest fear. Just what do you worry about?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Do you worry about it?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And I am constantly thinking about, like how much money
are we putting into our four O one k's and like, okay,
let's make sure we do this, Let's make sure we
do that. I mean, I would say, you know, and
then also me just worrying about like let me not
fail my children, and I hope they grow up to
be good people and productive citizens. And so those are
two things that are sort of top of mind all
the time.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
How much do you tell your children about your work
and especially your your Freely Sober book.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So my kids know they're seven and nine, so they
know they would say like, oh yeah, like mom's sober.
I don't know that my daughter who's seven, really is
getting it this time. Yeah, but my son gets it
and I I don't. Of course, they don't know all
the crazy stories and some of the stuff that I
I've talked about online. However, I really like being transparent
(14:52):
with them because I think that is going to be
really good for them when the time comes for them
to make decisions.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
You know, it's one thing to tell kid, hey, you.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Shouldn't drink, you're not supposed to drink, but then you
know you're at home drinking in front of them a lot. Sure,
and then yeah, you know, it's another thing to be like,
we don't drink, and here's why. And we point back to,
you know, going back to my husband's story, I mean
his mother like completely destroyed, her life destroyed. There's like
lives through her alcohol and drug use, which we also
(15:21):
talk about that's.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Mental illness and all of these things.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And then but it's also in my family and so
we're able to say, hey, guess what, like some people
are more prone to being addicted, and you have that
in our family, so you need to be really careful
about the decisions you make around drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And of course right now they're like, well, we're never
going to do that. Well, okay, of course, you know,
yeah a teenager. Yeah, so I do worry about that.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
But I know that kids that have a reason are
much more likely to really truly think about what they're doing,
as opposed to a kid that's just being told no
and they don't really understand why.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I think kids notice a lot more than we think.
I think back to my daughter is fifteen, and she
was when the pandemic began. She was ten. I'm not
a big drinker. We're just not big drinkers. I often
joked that, like I'd you know, I'd like to drink more,
you know, that kind of thing. But when the pandemic began,
we were having kind of FaceTime drinks with our friends
(16:18):
a lot, and my daughter, who was ten at the time,
was like, is are people developing drinking problems right now? Like,
and she was just ten. I mean, Joe, there's no
reason for her to know that people did develop drinking
problems during the pandemic, and that was a big spur
of alcoholism for a lot of people who suddenly found
themselves kind of would not a lot to do except
(16:40):
open bottles of wine.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
And that, I mean the most the most powerful statistic
that I cite is that moms with children five and
under they increased their drinking by three hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
And that's just like a shocking.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I'm always like when I the time, I never I
just never have like the time for.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Well, it's just you know, people were ordering in their
boxed wine, and I remember lots of jokes about that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
It was very culturally in the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yes, I thought, you meant, yeah, in general when they
have kids.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'm like, no, during the pandamic, I mean, it does
increase rights. A pandemic was like ultra ultra and I
don't you know, we're we're yet to see, like what
are the long term effects you got? I mean I
quit drinking during COVID, so it definitely like it stepped
up for me. And then I quit drinking in September
of twenty twenty, so you know, I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I'm glad to say that.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
You know, my daughter was two, my son was four,
They're probably not going to remember any of that, and
so I'm thankful, but I can understand why there was
such an increase.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
But the good news is.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Like we are seeing a lot more sobriety just across
the board, across the mission.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Young people aren't drinking anymore in.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
All kinds of reasons.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I think the health side of it, and people are
learning so much more about the connections to cancer and
all kinds of other issues. I think that sort of
education is making an impact for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Do you think that lasts like I always kind of
think that, you know, yeah, young people aren't really drinking.
I also kind of think that they might maybe using
other substances more. I feel like weed has become legal
in a lot of places. But do you think that that, like,
does gen Z become the generation that kind of breaks
the casual drinks after work and the alcohol being a
(18:24):
focal point of socializing.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I can't imagine when it is not a focal point
of socializing.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And I'm not necessarily against that all the time.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
You know, it's not like yeah, yeah, but I do
think that that's possible because you know, statistics show the
later that you drink for the first time. Say you
drink for the first time at age twenty one or
twenty two, you are much less likely to develop a
problem with it. The earlier you drink, the more likely
you are to develop a problem with it. And so
if we have people that are waiting until later, better,
(18:55):
I do think that that's going to trickle down to have.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
A positive effect on sort of the habits.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
But you know, the thing is, is I just just
kind of a random aside, but just it's crazy when
you look at AA, you look at alan On for
family members, and just like all the destruction the alcohol
is caused in families.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Sure, how unseeriously it.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Is sometimes taken, and it is a big deal to
really be serious about letting kids know, letting people know that.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
This is a drug.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You have to use it responsibly and it's not something
to take lightly, which is what's very scary about college,
which is like a sanctioned binetaking emporiums.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Totally. Yeah, what advice would you give your sixteen year
old self having to do this all over again? What
a sixteen year old Erica need to know?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Oh my gosh, I've never thought that like that specific question,
I would say to Oh, my goodness, I would say,
lean in to your friends that are not big drinkers
and partiers.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Try to make.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Some friends that that's not like the focal point of
what they're doing, and latch onto them in meaningful ways.
It's so hard when you're so young and you feel
invincible and you're just like, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Worry about that later. And that was a lot of
my mindset.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I'm like, oh, sure, like yeah, like later, I'm gonna
deal with this.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
But now I'm in college.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Right right now, I'm having fun and I don't know
that you can talk a young person out of it,
but maybe just to zoom forward and to think, actually
to think about how it had affected my family, like
my grandfathers who had suffered from alcoholism, like to actually
be like, let me sit you down and tell you
like what you need to know, because nobody did that
for me like I'm doing for my kids, and that
(20:45):
may have made an impact on me.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And was there like was that the start of you
would say, developing a drinking issue or did that come later?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, I mean I really started drinking at about sixteen
or seventeen. It was a lot more sort of sporadic
back in that time, and I.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Had a lot of guilt about it.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Like I was, like I always say, I was like
the girl at the party, like drunk talking.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
About God to people like so annoying. Nobody likes that person.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I hate to say, I kind of would like that person.
But okay, yeah I did, I hear you. But we
would have been friends.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean there are people that
love that and so.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
But I think it was really my guilt talking like
I know, I'm not supposed to be doing this, this
isn't the right behavior for me. But you know, I
would say things really took a turn for the worst,
just like in young adulthood, especially when I was living
in DC and just the whole world is alcohol when
you're living as an intern in DC.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, I mean everything kind.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Of You mentioned, you know, drinking in the Capitol Building,
and I was like, I'm sure lots of people, Oh
I'm drinking in the Capitol Building. I mean that's a.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Lot under their desks like all the time. Like people
actually still have Martini lunches.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's it's right, it's almost like it's the sixties.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
All over again for some people, and it's.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
The only acceptable kind of careers where I think that
it wouldn't be weird at all if I saw a
bunch of congressmen having martinis with lunch in d C.
It's like a standard thing that happens or their interns,
to be honest, right.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Right, And of course everything is a happy hour. I
mean every event, like constantly trying to it's like, let's
get as many people here as possible.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Freebooze.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
I mean yeah, free food, but yes, and yeah both
so right, it's as you really got to wor they
almost should have like an educational like you must do
alcohol one.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
On one when you come to DC and be an intern,
because you're going to get lost in all of this.
And it's also you know, it's like a nostalgic thing,
like as a journalist, you know, it was like, oh,
you know, thinking about these like old school journalists.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And like meeting in the bottom the base of the bar. Yeah,
and they have.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Those basement bars that are super almost like from a
book or something, and so you know, it's nice.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
But it's funny that you say that nostalgia thing because
I you know, in the early day it being a writer,
I was like I'm going to have a bird when
I do drink. I'm a brown liquor kind of girl,
so I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna have a bourbon
and write my column and then I'd be like, wow,
I cannot write at all on this.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I know.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Work for me. I am now tired. I want to
write an up. I'm not a drinking writer at all.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, there is something like that we make up in
our heads really about being like, oh, I'm gonna go
to the bar and like it'll be it'll be like
a fun thing that I'm doing, and you know, even
like going to a bar by yourself, like there was
something sophisticated about that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
For me, I have a memory of doing this. I
don't even know where.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Or I was in DuPont Circle and I went to
this like fancy, cute little bar and have a martini
and then like I had another one and they were
like really big and strong, and then I was like
now I'm in DuPont Circle and I have to get
home now, and it doesn't feel so magical anymore.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, it's like glamorous to now have to figure out
my way home.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Right right, So the Metro is not glamorous, fy im.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
At it all. Well, this conversation, I think you're a
fantastic writer and you tell a really compelling story. I
can't wait to read Freely Sober by it. Pre order
it now anywhere you guys get your books. Leave us
here with your best tip for my listeners on how
they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Goodness, that is so hardcore.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
How to improve your life, I would say, honestly, I
would say, start taking your spiritual life as seriously as
you take the rest of your life, because when this
spiritual and faith component of your life is aligned and strong,
I think everything else kind of falls into place after that,
and we kind of put that to the side. So
I would say, you know, wherever you land there, make
(24:45):
that like a really strong focus this year, because all
your priorities sort of come under that.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So that's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I love that she is Erica Anderson. Read her work,
Order her upcoming book, Freely Sober. Read her life last book,
Leaving Cloud Nine. Thank you so much for coming on, Erica,
Welcome back to the Cheryl Markowich Show on iHeartRadio Shows.
My guest today is Erica Anderson. Erica is a writer
who has written for Christianity Today, New York Times, Wall
Street Journal, and others. Her book Leaving Cloud Nine, The
True story of a life resurrected from the ashes of poverty, trauma,
and mental illness, is available now, and her upcoming book
(00:25):
Freely Sober is available for pre order before it's January
released anywhere you buy your books. Hi, Erica, so nice
to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
So I've known you online for a number of years,
and I remember when you first started talking about your
sobriety journey. One was that was that difficult for you?
And what made you start opening up about that?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think I probably originally started talking about it the
first time I really tried to get sober, which was
I would say early twenty nineteen something like that. And
the reason I sort of, you know, dipped a toe
where I wasn't like really going all out talking about it,
but I was kind of talking about how maybe I'm
not as comfortable with alcohol as I thought I was.
(01:14):
But for me, it is just part of who I am.
To sort of share what I'm going through online. That's
not for everybody. But as I became more immersed in,
you know, deciding that I wasn't going to be drinking anymore,
I knew it had to in part become a part
of my identity.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
At least for a while. To say.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I had heard from others to say to say I
don't drink, Like even if you still are drinking, you're
still struggling, to just even say I don't drink or
I'm sober, to just say that it actually helps ingrain
it to who you are and actually empowers you to
make better choices even in the midst.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Of a struggle.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And so that is what sort of inspired me to
just start talking about it, and I kind of it
just sort of followed God like he was I felt
like giving me this courage to talk about it, and
I thought, I don't think everyone has this. I do
think we need voices, and He's telling me, like, let's
do it, let's go, and so I just kind of
(02:14):
went with that, despite knowing that I was feeling a
little bit self conscious with everybody. I sure, yea being.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
This online, Yeah, it's a big deal to tell people
stories about it. I think even you had one recently
that you know, again, I've been following you a long time,
I've known all this about you for a long time.
But you had one recently that was even like surprising
or shocking to me where you talked about during your
work day going out and buying miniature bottles of alcohol.
(02:46):
And I had, you know, I guess, I, look, I
have to be honest, I don't know that much about alcoholism.
I guess this is this is sort of a learning
curve for me too. But I always thought it was like, oh,
you just thought that the whole mom wine culture was
you know, harmful, and that was what turned you towards sobriety.
I guess I didn't realize that you'd had, you know,
had a real problem.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, that was that story was.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I felt really nervous to share that because I just
knew people that I used to work with during.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That time maybe like wait what yeah, like.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
What I had to No, I yeah, I know, And
it's it's so it's such a weird thing looking back
and seeing that, but it I shared it because it
goes to show you that people that are struggling can
be hiding in plain sight. You know, you just because
someone is drinking during the day doesn't mean you're going
to know it.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And it's not something I.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Was doing every day, but the fact that I was
doing it at all, and just like the sensationalism of
it being oh, this isn't like the US Capitol building
and you know, I'm working for some member of Congress
and like.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
What what in the world is happening here?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And so I, you know, share these little tidbits and
stories to really make people feel seen. And that's not
to say you need to be sneaking alcohol at work
to quit drinking or have a problem at all, but
I think sometimes it's helpful to those that maybe are
in those situations to hear like, oh, like actually Erica
was doing stuff like this too, and like look at
(04:14):
her now, right.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
How much of a role did your faith play in
your sober journey?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah? I think huge.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I mean I think getting sober was important for me
as a whole. But also I really felt that alcohol
muddied this relationship I had with God, Like this sort
of being in touch with Him was very blurried when
I was drinking a lot, like I couldn't hear his voice.
I wasn't able to sense maybe the way that God
(04:46):
works in our lives on a daily basis. You miss
those little things because there's a person in the Bible,
I think in the Old Testament that says something like God,
God doesn't. God never yells, He's more like a whisper.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Tell the story about you know, there was I'm like
blanking on the person's name.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
It was probably Moses, but somebody did on a mountain,
and Moses.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Was frequently on mountains.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, exactly what it.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Might have been him, But he's on the mountain right,
And you know they say like God wasn't He wasn't
in the wind, and he wasn't in the storm, and
he wasn't in the thunder. He was just like a
still small voice. And you miss a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
If you're dremking. You can't sense those things.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
And you also can't sense like the needs of those
around you, whether it's like a tone change in your
kid's voice or your spouse or your friend. And like
you really can't be the person that you want to
be when you are constantly putting a substance in your
body that alters your mental state.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
What do you hope that people get out of Freely Sober?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I hope that you know.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
A promise that I like to make in the book is,
once you read this book, you'll never think about alcohol
the same way again.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So it's not a call to quit drinking.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And like you know, oh my gosh, like you if
you buy this book, like I want you to quit drinking,
that's not what it is. That's why it's called freely
Sober because we yeah, yeah, because you know, every minute
that I told myself I have to stop drinking and
I have to stop drinking, like that was paralyzing and
it was actually the barrier to actually quitting drinking. But
when you step away and actually analyze yourself, your relationship
(06:25):
with alcohol, your history like under like learn about alcohol
and how it's played a role in your life, then
you can actually, if you want, you can choose not
to drink because of what you've learned.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And I think reading.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
This book, and this is kind of how it happened
for me and reading other books, I walked away, you'll
walk away knowing like you can't unknow what you just learned.
And when you learn something about the way this is
impacting you and the way that it impacts society as well,
Like it's almost impossible to keep making the same decisions. Yeah,
(06:59):
because you know better, And that doesn't mean you quit
necessarily right away, but it does mean you step forward
and a better direction that maybe leads you.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
To where you need to be in the future.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
But when you tell yourself you have to quit drinking,
it leaves no room to want to quit drinking. And
I want to create that space for people so that
they actually maybe want to but not have to.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Very interesting and I really think that's an interesting point,
the freely part, and that you can want to but
not have to. That's very well said. What was Leaving
Cloud Nine? What was the Cloud Nine that you had
to leave in writing that book?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, So Leaving Cloud Nine was sort of a joint
book really. I wrote it, but it was really about
my husband and the trailer park that he grew up
in is called Cloud Nine in Arizona, and.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So we wrote this book.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I mean it really started as just like a you know,
a far fetched idea that we could actually write and
publish this book. But essentially it was about his story
of growing up in poverty and abuse, and you talk
about adverse childhood effects. If anybody's familiar with those, the aces,
like he had nine out of ten of those, and
so his childhood was Every time he would tell me
a story, I was like, oh my gosh, like.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
We have got to talk about this somehow.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And I ended up spending hours interviewing him, ultimately attempting
to get a book deal, like shockingly actually getting one
and turning it into this book, this story of his
healing and redemption through his faith and all the things
that he went through as a child and then as
an adult, and it sort of comes full circle with
the birth of our son at the very end of
(08:33):
the book. But I often compare it to I say,
it's kind of like a faith based Till Billy eleogy,
a lot of very similar elements.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I was thinking this, Yeah, you know, like when.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I've seen jd.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Vance and interviews, and you know, I just know a
lot about his story from reading that.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I just think I'm always like, oh, you and jd.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Vance would have so much to talk about. You guys
would because my husband was also in the military, and
you know, a lot of just things that line up,
and so yeah, it was an amazing experience to be
able to write that, and so we still to this day,
we'll get emails from people that are saying, you know,
I really appreciated you writing that because there's so much
in my own story that I saw there and to
(09:15):
see the redemption that happened, to see what's possible, Like
that's that's a really cool thing to read about.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Did you always want to be a writer?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I did, you know?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I always say, like from the time I was, you know,
six years old and I got my first Ballerina diary
with a little key lock and key, I always wanted
to be a writer.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I went to journalism school, and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Get to be an actual I would say, like real
writer's where I'm like really writing my own stuff, like
in publishing. It until really more about the time that
that book came out, and then I started to recognize it's.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
A great way to be a real writer, write a book.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, that helps, I mean, and thankfully I was exposed
to lots of great networks of people in DC working
at Heritage and National Review. That was like it kind
of just showed me what was possible. I didn't even realize,
I thought. I finally thought to myself, actually like normal
people like me can actually get their writing scene and
published and you can get paid for that. And so
(10:13):
it's been like a really fun journey over the past
like six seven years to experiment with that and do
it and put it out there and realize that our
words and you know this, Carol of course as a columnist,
like we they're so powerful. It's so much more powerful
than anything you could pay for, anything you could rant
about on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
When you know, twenty five people see it.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
When you get your words published and you say something
and you say something that matters in thousands or more
people see it, like that's actually making a real difference.
And so I'm so passionate about getting people out there
to do more of that.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
What would have been like a plan be if the
writing career got them together.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Well, I've always worked in you know, the communications world,
and so my as a freelancer, half my life is
so in digital media strategies. So I guess the planned
is sort of also in action simultaneously.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
So we're going to take a quick break and be
right back on the Carol Markowitz Show. It was nearly
two years ago that terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred
innocent Israelis and took two hundred and fifty hostages. Today
it seems as if the cries of the dead and
dying have been drowned out by shouts of Antisemitic hatred,
(11:27):
and the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the
Holocaust has been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away,
a light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of
love and support for the people of Israel called Flags
of Fellowship, and it's organized by the International Fellowship of
Christians and Jews. And on October fifth, just a few
(11:48):
weeks away, millions across America will prayer fully plant an
Israeli flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of
October seventh, twenty twenty three. And they're grieving families. And
now you can be part of the movement too. To
get more information about how you can join the Flags
of Fellowship movement, visit the fellowship online at IFCJ dot org.
(12:13):
That's IFCJ dot org. Was there a road that you
thought about taking that you didn't take or do you
feel like you have gone all the ways that you've
wanted to go?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
You know, the only thing I say is that when
I first started out in Washington, DC as an intern
back in two thousand and six, I was really afraid.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I didn't know what I was doing, and.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I mean, who among us right, right?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
But I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have a guide,
and I don't know, Like today, I feel so fearless
and I will call anybody, I will interview anybody.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
I will.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
The one thing I say is I'm always like, I
don't think I could go on.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Bill Maher because I'd be afraid, like even though I'd
actually love Bill Maher, but I'd be like so afraid
that I'd get like a question that I couldn't answer
and I'd be embarrassed. So but outside of that, you know,
I feel so fearless in a lot of those ways,
and so I kind of just wish that back in
those early days, I had had a mentor, I'd had
someone sort of guiding me. Because I had some like
(13:14):
really early success. I wrote for Human Events and you know,
had a couple like TV, your parents and stuff, but
it was so nerve acking that I just kind of
ran away from it all and I didn't really develop
my passion for what I do now until later. So
I kind of wish I had been able to leverage that.
But otherwise, like, I mean, everything has gone amazing. You know,
(13:34):
I get to be a mom to my two kids,
which is like my favorite, most important job of course,
and so I wouldn't change anything about that pathway.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
What do you worry about having enough.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Money for retirement? That's one thing, Yeah, I mean, you know,
constantly saving it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I asked that question to all of my guests, and
you know, the range of answers could be anything, but
I have to say nobody said. Nobody said retirement.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yet that's one It's not my biggest fear.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
But bigest fear. Just what do you worry about?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Do you worry about it?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And I am constantly thinking about, like how much money
are we putting into our four O one k's and like, okay,
let's make sure we do this, Let's make sure we
do that. I mean, I would say, you know, and
then also me just worrying about like let me not
fail my children, and I hope they grow up to
be good people and productive citizens. And so those are
two things that are sort of top of mind all
the time.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
How much do you tell your children about your work
and especially your your Freely Sober book.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So my kids know they're seven and nine, so they
know they would say like, oh yeah, like mom's sober.
I don't know that my daughter who's seven, really is
getting it this time. Yeah, but my son gets it
and I I don't. Of course, they don't know all
the crazy stories and some of the stuff that I
I've talked about online. However, I really like being transparent
(14:52):
with them because I think that is going to be
really good for them when the time comes for them
to make decisions.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
You know, it's one thing to tell kid, hey, you.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Shouldn't drink, you're not supposed to drink, but then you
know you're at home drinking in front of them a lot. Sure,
and then yeah, you know, it's another thing to be like,
we don't drink, and here's why. And we point back to,
you know, going back to my husband's story, I mean
his mother like completely destroyed, her life destroyed. There's like
lives through her alcohol and drug use, which we also
(15:21):
talk about that's.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Mental illness and all of these things.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And then but it's also in my family and so
we're able to say, hey, guess what, like some people
are more prone to being addicted, and you have that
in our family, so you need to be really careful
about the decisions you make around drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And of course right now they're like, well, we're never
going to do that. Well, okay, of course, you know,
yeah a teenager. Yeah, so I do worry about that.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
But I know that kids that have a reason are
much more likely to really truly think about what they're doing,
as opposed to a kid that's just being told no
and they don't really understand why.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I think kids notice a lot more than we think.
I think back to my daughter is fifteen, and she
was when the pandemic began. She was ten. I'm not
a big drinker. We're just not big drinkers. I often
joked that, like I'd you know, I'd like to drink more,
you know, that kind of thing. But when the pandemic began,
we were having kind of FaceTime drinks with our friends
(16:18):
a lot, and my daughter, who was ten at the time,
was like, is are people developing drinking problems right now? Like,
and she was just ten. I mean, Joe, there's no
reason for her to know that people did develop drinking
problems during the pandemic, and that was a big spur
of alcoholism for a lot of people who suddenly found
themselves kind of would not a lot to do except
(16:40):
open bottles of wine.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
And that, I mean the most the most powerful statistic
that I cite is that moms with children five and
under they increased their drinking by three hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
And that's just like a shocking.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I'm always like when I the time, I never I
just never have like the time for.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Well, it's just you know, people were ordering in their
boxed wine, and I remember lots of jokes about that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
It was very culturally in the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yes, I thought, you meant, yeah, in general when they
have kids.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'm like, no, during the pandamic, I mean, it does
increase rights. A pandemic was like ultra ultra and I
don't you know, we're we're yet to see, like what
are the long term effects you got? I mean I
quit drinking during COVID, so it definitely like it stepped
up for me. And then I quit drinking in September
of twenty twenty, so you know, I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I'm glad to say that.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
You know, my daughter was two, my son was four,
They're probably not going to remember any of that, and
so I'm thankful, but I can understand why there was
such an increase.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
But the good news is.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Like we are seeing a lot more sobriety just across
the board, across the mission.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Young people aren't drinking anymore in.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
All kinds of reasons.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I think the health side of it, and people are
learning so much more about the connections to cancer and
all kinds of other issues. I think that sort of
education is making an impact for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Do you think that lasts like I always kind of
think that, you know, yeah, young people aren't really drinking.
I also kind of think that they might maybe using
other substances more. I feel like weed has become legal
in a lot of places. But do you think that that, like,
does gen Z become the generation that kind of breaks
the casual drinks after work and the alcohol being a
(18:24):
focal point of socializing.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I can't imagine when it is not a focal point
of socializing.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And I'm not necessarily against that all the time.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
You know, it's not like yeah, yeah, but I do
think that that's possible because you know, statistics show the
later that you drink for the first time. Say you
drink for the first time at age twenty one or
twenty two, you are much less likely to develop a
problem with it. The earlier you drink, the more likely
you are to develop a problem with it. And so
if we have people that are waiting until later, better,
(18:55):
I do think that that's going to trickle down to have.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
A positive effect on sort of the habits.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
But you know, the thing is, is I just just
kind of a random aside, but just it's crazy when
you look at AA, you look at alan On for
family members, and just like all the destruction the alcohol
is caused in families.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Sure, how unseeriously it.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Is sometimes taken, and it is a big deal to
really be serious about letting kids know, letting people know that.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
This is a drug.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You have to use it responsibly and it's not something
to take lightly, which is what's very scary about college,
which is like a sanctioned binetaking emporiums.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Totally. Yeah, what advice would you give your sixteen year
old self having to do this all over again? What
a sixteen year old Erica need to know?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Oh my gosh, I've never thought that like that specific question,
I would say to Oh, my goodness, I would say,
lean in to your friends that are not big drinkers
and partiers.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Try to make.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Some friends that that's not like the focal point of
what they're doing, and latch onto them in meaningful ways.
It's so hard when you're so young and you feel
invincible and you're just like, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Worry about that later. And that was a lot of
my mindset.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I'm like, oh, sure, like yeah, like later, I'm gonna
deal with this.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
But now I'm in college.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Right right now, I'm having fun and I don't know
that you can talk a young person out of it,
but maybe just to zoom forward and to think, actually
to think about how it had affected my family, like
my grandfathers who had suffered from alcoholism, like to actually
be like, let me sit you down and tell you
like what you need to know, because nobody did that
for me like I'm doing for my kids, and that
(20:45):
may have made an impact on me.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And was there like was that the start of you
would say, developing a drinking issue or did that come later?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, I mean I really started drinking at about sixteen
or seventeen. It was a lot more sort of sporadic
back in that time, and I.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Had a lot of guilt about it.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Like I was, like I always say, I was like
the girl at the party, like drunk talking.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
About God to people like so annoying. Nobody likes that person.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I hate to say, I kind of would like that person.
But okay, yeah I did, I hear you. But we
would have been friends.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean there are people that
love that and so.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
But I think it was really my guilt talking like
I know, I'm not supposed to be doing this, this
isn't the right behavior for me. But you know, I
would say things really took a turn for the worst,
just like in young adulthood, especially when I was living
in DC and just the whole world is alcohol when
you're living as an intern in DC.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, I mean everything kind.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Of You mentioned, you know, drinking in the Capitol Building,
and I was like, I'm sure lots of people, Oh
I'm drinking in the Capitol Building. I mean that's a.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Lot under their desks like all the time. Like people
actually still have Martini lunches.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's it's right, it's almost like it's the sixties.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
All over again for some people, and it's.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
The only acceptable kind of careers where I think that
it wouldn't be weird at all if I saw a
bunch of congressmen having martinis with lunch in d C.
It's like a standard thing that happens or their interns,
to be honest, right.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Right, And of course everything is a happy hour. I
mean every event, like constantly trying to it's like, let's
get as many people here as possible.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Freebooze.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
I mean yeah, free food, but yes, and yeah both
so right, it's as you really got to wor they
almost should have like an educational like you must do
alcohol one.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
On one when you come to DC and be an intern,
because you're going to get lost in all of this.
And it's also you know, it's like a nostalgic thing,
like as a journalist, you know, it was like, oh,
you know, thinking about these like old school journalists.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And like meeting in the bottom the base of the bar. Yeah,
and they have.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Those basement bars that are super almost like from a
book or something, and so you know, it's nice.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
But it's funny that you say that nostalgia thing because
I you know, in the early day it being a writer,
I was like I'm going to have a bird when
I do drink. I'm a brown liquor kind of girl,
so I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna have a bourbon
and write my column and then I'd be like, wow,
I cannot write at all on this.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I know.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Work for me. I am now tired. I want to
write an up. I'm not a drinking writer at all.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, there is something like that we make up in
our heads really about being like, oh, I'm gonna go
to the bar and like it'll be it'll be like
a fun thing that I'm doing, and you know, even
like going to a bar by yourself, like there was
something sophisticated about that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
For me, I have a memory of doing this. I
don't even know where.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Or I was in DuPont Circle and I went to
this like fancy, cute little bar and have a martini
and then like I had another one and they were
like really big and strong, and then I was like
now I'm in DuPont Circle and I have to get
home now, and it doesn't feel so magical anymore.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, it's like glamorous to now have to figure out
my way home.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Right right, So the Metro is not glamorous, fy im.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
At it all. Well, this conversation, I think you're a
fantastic writer and you tell a really compelling story. I
can't wait to read Freely Sober by it. Pre order
it now anywhere you guys get your books. Leave us
here with your best tip for my listeners on how
they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Goodness, that is so hardcore.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
How to improve your life, I would say, honestly, I
would say, start taking your spiritual life as seriously as
you take the rest of your life, because when this
spiritual and faith component of your life is aligned and strong,
I think everything else kind of falls into place after that,
and we kind of put that to the side. So
I would say, you know, wherever you land there, make
(24:45):
that like a really strong focus this year, because all
your priorities sort of come under that.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So that's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I love that she is Erica Anderson. Read her work,
Order her upcoming book, Freely Sober. Read her life last book,
Leaving Cloud Nine. Thank you so much for coming on, Erica,
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