September 16, 2025 • 31 mins
Mary Katharine and Karol confront the devastating news of Charlie Kirk’s murder, sharing how grief and loss are reverberating through the conservative community. They examine what this moment means for the future of conservatism, the role of faith and community in raising strong families, and the difficulties of engaging in honest political dialogue in an increasingly divided culture. The discussion also tackles cancel culture, the responsibilities of parents, and how core values can endure in turbulent times. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, guys, we are back on normally the show with
normalish takes, but when the news gets weird. I am
Mary Catherine hamp.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Ma'm Carol Marcus and Mary Catherine. How's it going.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, you know, it's been a sad week.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
We were in Mexico City for the weekend, a trip
that we had planned for about a year. We got
tickets to see Oasis with the kids, and we almost canceled,
and we didn't just because we didn't want to disappoint
the kids. But I've just been I mean devastated, obviously.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Really really out of it.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And I have to say that my very normy, not
into politics, not super online husband has also been like that,
and we just have both been so sad and trying
to reflect and be optimistic for the kids.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Really, Yeah, it was. It's a very hard thing to see.
I mean, even if you didn't see it, just for
it to have happened at all, For a friend and
colleague to be gunned down for doing the thing that
we love to do. Yeah that And I don't mean
to make it about me, but it's very hard to
watch this thing that I love that I think is
(01:08):
very healing talking to people who believe differently. For you,
I grew up with all people who disagree with me
same and I have always engaged with them in civil
and almost all the time kind ways. Like I'm sure
I've misstepped here and there, but like, I think that's
what matters. I think that's what changes minds. I think
(01:28):
that's what works to save entire civilizations. And to have
that be the thing that is attacked in addition to
a human that I knew, is yeah, devastating.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's hard to recover from.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
We're gonna do a whole episode on the Charlie Kirk murder.
We're going to take it from three different perspectives. We're
going to do the future of the country, the future
of the conservative movement, and then had a parent in
the wake of this, we should do differently what we
do well now, that kind of thing. So let's get
into it.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Future of the country.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I felt like we were in a very optimistic place
for the last almost year. I have to tell you
that it was from the Donald Trump reelection.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I have felt like we.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Were recovering in so many ways that I really did
feel good about where we were going, and I understood
that not everybody agreed with everything he was doing, and
obviously I don't agree with every single thing.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Even though I hate to say stuff like that, in
this moment, I hate the I didn't agree with everything.
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I don't have to, you don't have to.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It makes no sense to agree with everything. I don't
agree with everything you say. I feel like we largely agree,
but like you know, it just we're different people and
that's okay. But you know, I have felt very good
about a lot of things in the last year, and
this has it's shaken that a little bit. It's shaken
that where I am afraid of, not just where I
(03:02):
think the left is. I'm afraid of kind of normal people,
the doctors and the nurses and the teachers and the
accountants who have been fired in the wake of saying
truly despicable things online about Charlie Kirk's murder. I'm afraid
that these people live among us, and they hate us.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And want us dead. And like you said, you.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Know, you and I grew up in places where people
largely disagreed with us, and I thought that we could
just do that in a kind, respectful fashion.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And now I no longer know yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I think in my personal life I have been careful
for the past I would say ten years or so
about what organizations I associate my family with, keeping my
job sort of hush hush when I'm entering a new
space at schools, at kid activities, when I'm seeking medical care. Now,
I think a lot of my friends on the left
(03:59):
would tell me that's crazy, that's that's paranoid. Why would
you do that. I don't think it feels that paranoid.
It doesn't, and it does worry me that someone would
take their feelings about my beliefs out on my family
and on services that we need. If you are in
a position of public trust and you are incapable of
(04:19):
regulating your emotions to the agree to the degree that
not only do you have the feeling that someone should
be killed for their political disagreements with you, but you
want to broadcast that I have some really serious questions.
I as some one of those serious questions. And I
am a person who has written a book about cancel
culture being bad before it had a name.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I defended Trevor Noah, James Gunn, any number of liberals
for old bad tweets I think offensive jokes are largely
pretty good. Yeah, like all the things tweets old tweets
shouldn't be a problem. All that kinds of up. I
don't want to all dug up. I feel like a
lot of this stuff is something that would have been
firal before cancel culture existed.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Right, that's sort of the difference here.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
It's that this isn't an uncomfortable joke you made ten
years ago. It's not something that was ever okay to
dance on someone's grave. And also just you know, the
people who think that they're being mgnanimous or something by
saying like, well, I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk on
all of these things, and they list everything they think
(05:25):
is terrible that he's ever said. You know, but it's
still wrong to kill him, Like you could just go
jump right ahead to it was wrong to kill him,
Like you don't have to do that. Nobody when grandma dies,
nobody's like here are all the offensive things she's ever
said at parties.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
You know, they just warn grandma that's it.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, I agree with you. And also people are allowed
to be a jerk about someone who just died, right, like,
and I don't think that's a viraable offense. I do
think of all the things we could ask most people
to agree on, agreeing as a free society with free speech,
it is not good to murder someone for that speech
(06:05):
is a pretty good one that we could be almost
unanimous on. Yeah, and I have been disturbed by how
many people I do not agree and to the practitioners
of the left to tell all of us that, oh, yeah,
now you want to do cancel culture, and they'll tell you,
they'll tell you you're doing cancel culture. And also this thing,
(06:26):
this problem we're seeing, doesn't exist. I'm like, no, it
does exist. It happened with Luigi Mangioni and the murder
of Brian Thompson. It's happening again. I'm less surprised because
of the sickness I saw after Brian Thompson was killed.
And it is dark.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
It's dark, it really is.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And you know, so you're talking about where I feel
like you and I differ a little bit.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think you're far kinder than me on this kind
of thing.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I'm kind of in the place of you wanted this
cancel culture game here it is. It doesn't work if
we're the only ones getting canceled.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yet to play like only the.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Left gets to choose who loses their job over speech
Like no, I'm sorry that that's not the way it's
going to go. And I think that the only way
this ends is if they have to live under the
consequences of their own rules. And I don't you know,
I don't see another path. The other thing, I don't
think I've heard anybody say this, but I think another
huge problem that we're facing, and this is really sort
(07:22):
of on the periphery of all the things we're talking about.
Everybody thinks that they're on a TV show or something
like my Facebook speed, Like you're an accountant.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Why are you issuing a statement on Charlie Kirk's death.
I just don't get it. I don't understand why you.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Think that you need to say something and why like
I get the outpouring of grief. I even understand the
I didn't agree with him, but you know, we shouldn't
kill each other, sure, but like, why are you writing
five hundred words on Charlie Kirk when this is not
your job and it's not what you do and people
don't turn to you in moments of you know, national
(07:58):
strife to say what is Larry the account and think
about this. I feel like people have gotten where. They
all think that they have an online brand. And speaking
of someone who has an online brand.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You don't want this. You don't want it. If it's
not your job, why do it well?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And even as people with an online brand, I didn't
make a statement, no, I'm in this, I'm in this milieu.
I'm in this work, this line of work. It is
very applicable to what I do a little too directly
applicable to what I do in a scary way. And
like you can, just like my Instagram doesn't have anything,
(08:34):
my Twitter has some stuff because this is what I
have capacity for, and I'm speaking about it publicly like
you just you don't have to, you don't. One thing
I hope for the future of the country is that
every I have noticed, invariably you click through or do
three seconds of research on whatever quote you come across
(08:55):
from Charlie Kirk. And there were plenty of things Charlie
said that I disagreed with, but invariably every quote I
come across and click through and watch it is a calm,
kind explication that treats people with like dignity, high emotional
IQ has a lot of facts at his disposal, and
(09:19):
in the end you go, well, this is like that's
what we're mad about. That's what we're mad.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
About, right, And I hope of context, I just want to.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Say, well, that's what I'm saying. It's like you click
through on the Second Amendment quote and you get this
like incredibly smart, sensitive, nuanced with all these caveats, discussion
of what having a second Amendment is, for what it
looks like and what are the realistic dangers of that
in a free society, because he's a realistic thinker, and
(09:50):
I just I listen to that answer and I go,
that is that's something I would go to a campus
and say, because I am a rational thinker who is
in favor of this fundament liberty, and to have it
distorted in that way is crazy. But I think a
lot of people are watching the videos and are probably
surprised at what they've been told about Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I hope, so I hope that they're not just relying
on social media posts by their most politically active friends
to tell them what he said and what he meant
and all of that. You know, Karen Attia, as we're recording.
This has just been fired by the Washington Post. She
completely misquoted Charlie Kirk, and this is why she was
fired over it. She quoted him as saying black women
(10:34):
do not have the brain pot processing power to be
taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Slot.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
He didn't say anything like that.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
He criticized Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Sheila Jackson Lee, but
he absolutely did not.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Say black women. And it is a lie to say that.
And I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Pointing out individual people that he disagreed with, or even
if he said something offensive about it, does not mean
that he was blaming all black women. Are talking about
all black women, and it is a lie, and I'm
glad she was fired for that.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I think that is a fireable offense.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Oh, you've made up quotes about a public figure in
the wake of his death. That's not very journalistic. That's
another thing that bothers me about Being anti cancel culture
does not mean you paint yourself into a corner with
every legacy media a hole. Yeah, can never lose their
gajillion dollar a year cush contract, right. Matthew dowd Over
(11:28):
at MSNBC in our one of coverage blamed Charlie Kirk
for his own death. Okay, here, here's the thing. It's
breaking news. You have a responsibility to be responsible. Your
job is to control your emotions in public. Your job
is to give people real information and barring that, just
(11:50):
do no harm. To borrow a phrase from the medical community. Look,
he's not good. He's not good at that job. Yeah,
I would argue he's not qualified for that job if
he can't do better than that. Last campaign he won
is two thousand and six. He does nothing but block
people who disagree with him because he cannot engage in
any disagreement, and he says really nasty things that he
(12:12):
later has to walk back, and even MSNBC is likely enough. Yeah,
at some point you're a Stephen Colbert and you're just
like you're dead weight. Man. He don't do this anymore.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
We're going to take a sharp break and come right
back and talk about where the conservative movement goes after
Charlie Kirk. But first, it was nearly two years ago
the terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and
took two hundred and fifty people hostage. Today, it seems
as if the cries of the dead and dying have
been drowned out by shouts of anti Semitic hatred, and
(12:45):
the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust
has been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away, a
light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of love
and support for the people of Israel called Flags of Fellowship,
and it's organized by the Internet National Fellowship of Christians
and Jews. And on October fifth, just a few weeks away,
millions across America will prayer fully plant an Israeli flag
(13:09):
and honor and solidarity with the victims of October seventh,
twenty twenty three and their grieving families. And now you
can be part of this movement too. To get more
information about how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement,
visit Fellowship online at IFCJ dot org. That's IFCJ dot org.
More from the Charlie Kirk assassination fallout coming up.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
All right, we are back on normally, okay. Future of
the country now, future of the conservative movement. Charlie built
something really big. He was a leader in a way
that I am not capable of being. It was impressive
to watch. I have spoken at a turning point events
in the past, even when, by the way, Charlie and
I were in open disagreement about things, he would have
me come speak at his organization because he liked different
(13:57):
voices there. It's interesting the impact that he has had
on young people. What do you think happens from here
for the conservative movement, Well.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
The toughest part is appealing to the young audience. Everybody
has a podcast, you know, when I've been asked in
the last few days, like you know some who's picking
up you know the microphone and what people mean obviously
is the exchange with students, but.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
The whole having a perspective. Everybody's got one.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
It's the going into places where you might face opposition
and having tough conversations and doing it with a smile,
which I don't have any capacity.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
For it all. Either.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I can argue with my friends, I can argue on
the internet, going and specifically having arguments. I really respected
him for that and I don't have them just I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Have the same will to go do that. But I
love that he was doing it. So it's the young people.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I think that the conservative movement should be most worried
about not continuing down the path that Charlie was taking us,
because for the first time young people were voting Republican,
young men more than women.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
But still both had shifted.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Right in the last you know, four or five years,
and Charlie played a huge role in that. And I
don't know exactly who comes next now. Names that I've
heard that I say a big buck no to is
Nick Fuentes. Absolutely not and and also not just absolutely not,
like stop elevating this clown. It's crazy to me that
(15:28):
this online degenerate who makes it.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Even good charm? There's no if you took the belief
society exactly. He's not good to watch, right.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
He's only good when he's like punching Candice Owens, Like
that's really where he shines.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I ran a raq war situation is the only place
that I want to root for injuries.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
But it's just he he has no skill or basis
in this. He is this weird, hateful dude who I
just find him totally uninteresting. He's never made a point
that I was like, you know, even though we disagree,
I find him like, no, not at all. And so
(16:10):
I don't know otherwise, I kind of think it's somebody
that we don't know yet.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
That there will be people that rise from this.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You know, people are forming Turning Point chapters all over
the country in high.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Schools and in colleges.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
There's going to be people that rise up from the
movement and do what Charlie did in the same way,
that similar way that he did it, in a really smart.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Fashion, and take the argument to the students. A lot
of people are good at this kind of thing. Ben
Shapiro springs to mind. Ben Shapiro is, you know, I
don't want to say older, but he's our age. He's like,
you know, we're not going to college campuses.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
And while Ben does a great job of debating with people,
I think he's really stellar at that.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I do think it needs to be.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
College age, somebody in the same age brackets as these
young people in order to have that conversation. Charlie was
only thirty one, and he'd been doing this for a
long time. He was able to talk to these young
people because he was them five minutes ago. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Well, and it is tricky because it is a very
it's a it's a real skill, and I actually so
I don't have the skill of building the organization like
he did. I do have the skill of talking like
I do. Like going to college campuses. I do like
when they stand up in front of me and have
a question that they feel like I've never heard before,
(17:31):
and they're like, I'm really gonna get her. I just
say kindly, like I've heard that before, and I am
happy to walk you through it. Like the idea that
a woman could be a conservative. That's what I'm here for.
And it's it is so much fun, and you could
see it in Charlie's clips and edifying to have that
conversation and at the end of a thirty minute, hour
(17:52):
long session, and none of mine were nearly as high
profile as Charlie's, but to see a bunch of Harvard
students look at you and be like I thought I
was gonna hate her, and I'm right that I don't, right, Like,
that's that's what you're looking for. So I think it's
important for people like Ben and I'm nobody, but I
would also be willing to take up the mic and
(18:13):
do these things. I would not be as good at it.
It's very stressful, it's very hard work. Without the fear
that is now instilled. But it's really important for people
to get out there and say we are going to
continue to do this with whatever security needs being met.
And by the way, colleges need to make sure that
they are proactively doing that. There are a lot of
them aren't interested in it because speech, but I think
(18:35):
that's really important. I think you're right that a young
person is better positioned for it. And also to be
that well read and to deploy that kind of emotional
IQ and to parry with anyone and everyone is a
very big ask. The thing that's cool about Charlie is
that he built this organization that is well funded, has
a bunch of people who believe in it, who has
(18:58):
many employees. Any number of those folks can take up
the mantle, right And then there's, like you said, many
people inspired who we don't even know about yet exactly.
But I think the I think the murder of Charlie
Kirk is affecting young people in a way that most
media and liberal bubble people will missing not understand they're
(19:20):
missing it. Are people are taking a second look at
their faiths. People have never stepped into a church before
are doing it. I wrote about it in The Free
press today saying like, yeah, maybe take a chance on God,
because dark times are both an invitation to faith and
a test of it. Yeah, and you may find that
this is exactly the thing that will help you through
(19:40):
these times, as I have in the past. By the way,
I also want to say a person who could take
up his mantle and Erica Kirk So, Erica Kirk gave
a stunning, strong, forceful, beautiful tribute to her husband and
his work just days after he was killed. She's fantastic,
she really is. She is clearly, she clearly has a
(20:03):
fierce faith. It will serve her well as she moves forward.
A lot of not low profile, not rando people on
the left were coming at her for supporting her husband's
vision and in the wake of his death and oh,
looking a little mad about it. She should be mad
about it, guys. She should be mad about it. And
(20:24):
if she wants to channel that energy into supporting the
thing that her husband died doing, she should do that.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Absolutely should do that.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
That's a perfect way to mourn.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Actually, yeah, I thought her speech was incredible. How strong
she is. And look, I'm full of anger. I could
just imagine where she is and the fact that she
was able to.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Deliver those beautiful words.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
So shortly after his murder, and you know, people are like, oh,
we need somebody to unite us. She has been a
uniting figure in this terrible, terrible time. I'm fully supportive
of her taking ho here.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I'm going to be on his widow defense duty for
like the next two years for Erica Kirk, like as
she may never know who I am, but I'm going
to be out here, like y'all need to shut up.
She's doing a great job. She's fantastic. She's getting it done. Yeah,
it's a hard job in front of her, and she's
approaching it with really impressive strength.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Are you optimistic about the conservative movement going forward?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I tend to be an optimistic person, even in dark times.
And I think seeing despite what the left would tell
you and much of the media attempts to tell you
that the real scary thing is the foreboding response of
the right to their their figure being murdered for speaking,
how dare we it's not foreboding. Actually, Erica Kirk did
(21:47):
a beautiful thing. The candlelight vigils are not mostly peaceful,
but peaceful to the extent that they're not peaceful. It's
because lefties come and throw things and stomp on flowers
and yell ape okay, So that being the coming together
of our side does make me feel better because there
have been moments when our side has done bad things.
(22:08):
And sure, but our response to this is not.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Even in the same universe.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, our response to this is not twenty twenty. It's
actually beautiful and redemptive, and I hope it continues to
go down that road.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I'm also optimistic.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I think that this will unite us in a way
that the left can't imagine. I think most people on
the right are realizing that we have to stop the infighting.
I think that a lot of the stupidity, you know,
a lot of it's personal. I think people don't realize
how much of political infighting is actually I just don't
like that person, and that's where it comes from.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Which let me tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
When I first went to DC in grad school, you know,
to work there, I was shocked by this. I was
shocked because I was such a movement conservative and I
was going to get along with everybody and it didn't matter.
And I was like, no, people sometimes just don't like
each other, and that's where political infighting comes from. And
it's wild and crazy, and I think we're going to
pause it. I don't look my naive. Do I think
(23:02):
it's gonna last forever? No, but I would bet we're
going to see some reconciliations that will even surprise us.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
We'll be right back with.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
More on normally and how to parent in the wake
of the Charlie Kirk murder. Be right back, Welcome back
to normally, where we are talking about the murder of
Charlie Kirk, what it means for the country, what it
means for the conservative movement, how to not end up
(23:32):
with a child who was radicalized. All of this matters,
and I think that it's important to have these conversations.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Now.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I'll tell you you know, as you know, Bethany Mandel
and I co authored a book two years ago.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It was about how.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Children get radicalized and it was called Stolen Youth, and
it's about how all the different parts of society radicalized
children to the left.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And as I was on book.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Tour for this, so many parents came up to me
and told me the stories. They all started the same way.
They were like I lost my child, and I was like, wow,
what happened, and it's always raised them thinking that they
were going to live our values, and we didn't talk
about politics in the home, and then they went to
(24:16):
college and people filled it in.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And I think that what conservatives.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Need to understand is that it's okay to have a
perspective with your children. You don't have to kind of
tell them about the world and tell them that all
opinions are equal. In our house, we know that some
opinions are much better than other opinions, right right, there's
no Look. Do I tell them what the other perspectives are.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I do.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
But do I tell them that those perspectives are wrong
or my perspective is better?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Of course I do. That's the normal way to talk
about things, like I think that what.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I believe on issues A, B, and C are the
way that you should think about it. If you happen
to think a different way about it, let's discuss it.
But I'm not going to present all their perspectives that
I consider harmful or bad as equal to mine. They aren't,
And I think the kids need to hear that.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, I think your book actually inspired me to be
more upfront with my kids, because sometimes it can feel
like when you're parenting that there's so much going on
that doing the basic work. And actually, weirdly, COVID helped
me with this because I was homeschooling, so I was
a little bit on the ground floor of creating.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I want to creating, actually homeschooling, not you know, I
know you came up with the term zoom butler.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I was not.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah I was. I was not zoom butlering. I was
actually homeschooling. But it helped because I got to shape
and build the foundation of their understanding of why they're
so blessed to live here in this time, in this country.
And we do a lot of emphasis on that, and
we do faith teachings in our house, and we do
not leave it to chance that some rando will come
(25:57):
along and be like, hey, I've got a new idea
for you that is and it has nothing to stand
up against it, right, you know, I don't want to
leave that vacuum. I do want my kids to be
free thinkers. That's one of the values that we that
we talk about is that you can have that back
and forth. But I will say that having a conversation
with my kids this weekend about Charlie Kirk specifically is
(26:23):
tough because I don't want them to be scared for me, right,
and it's hard to communicate this without them drawing that
conclusion absolutely.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
The other thing that I would say, so two things. One,
keep your kids off TikTok. I know I hear parents
all the time say how how do.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You keep your kids off TikTok?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
You just don't let them download it, like if you
if you must do Instagram. Instagram reels very similar to TikTok,
usually a few weeks behind. I just find them to
be less radicalizing, less intense, They come across, less crazy stuff.
I mean, I want to inta I never see kind
of insane things that I know my friends see on TikTok.
(27:06):
Them off TikTok. Well, today Trump announced a TikTok deal
has been reached. Young people will be very happy. I'm
definitely concerned about that, you know, talking about things of
Donald Trump and I disagree on I think TikTok needs
to be sold. I think he needs to follow the
Supreme Court on this. And I think TikTok is harmful.
It's actively harming our children, and it's not accidental.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It's harm it's harming them on purpose. It is a
weapon being used by the CCP, by the Chinese Communist
Party exactly. Yeah, now that I do think the idea
of giving your kids unfettered social media access when they're young,
and a lot of people do throw up their hands
and go like, what, well, how can I not give
(27:49):
them that?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And I understand that COVID made that harder because they
made you stay at home, right, it made you work.
They didn't have your kids in school, and you were like,
my kid needs these devices to make friends with people
because they won't let us go out in the real world.
I get that, and also we have to modulate like that.
It's just yeah, it's very very toxic. I mean I have,
(28:13):
as you know, we both have a brand. I've been
on social media since I was came out, right, Like
since it came out. I was on Friendster, right, But
I was a fully grown person with a full frontal
lobe when I became a public figure who had this
kind of feedback that is essentially what everyone gets now
right before, I had that real time feedback about myself.
(28:36):
And I can't imagine how I would have turned out
had I had that When I was thirteen years old.
It absolutely really would have been devastating.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
The second thing I want to say, well, we'll wrap
up after this, but you know, you talk about faith,
and it's you know, I'm often jealous of Christians because
I feel like you guys can find openly conservative spaces,
and it's so much hart in the Jewish world. I'm
not Orthodox, and I have written so many complaints about
(29:04):
how hard it is in the Jewish world to be
a small c conservative, even though a lot of Jews
are moving to the right in the last you know,
let's call it almost two years now. But what I'll
say is I'm going to make an effort to find
other Jewish conservatives to be able for that. I feel
fairly open. I was born in the Soviet Union. As
(29:25):
you know, my community is very conservative. I've always felt
very open about my politics, but I know that other
Jews don't. I'm going to try to forge more community
for myself, for others like me, in order for them
to be more open about who they are politically, and
so that they could pass that along to their kids
as well. I think you need to have that, and
you need to have other people in your universe, in
(29:48):
your faith in your politics so that your kids can
see other families like yours. You can't do it in
a silo. If you are trying to do it in
a silo, please find others like whether you know you're
Christian or Jewish or anything else, find other people that
share your faith, that share your politics. Raise your kids together,
create something for your children to have a defense against
(30:12):
all the bad ideas that they will inevitably hear.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, I think they've done the opposite of silencing us.
Whoever you know, the shooter, this murderer, the opposite of
silencing me. I am going to be.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, we're bortter than ever.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Probably, I'm probably going to put more things on more
different social medias. And you know, like you said, join
with other families who, by the way, are having four
and six kids each yep, to the one on the
other side, and making sure that we are inculcating all
of that stuff so another generation can can appreciate the
(30:45):
things that we have grown up with.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
In this house, we protect our values, live it.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Thanks for joining us on normally normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
in touch with us at normally the pod at gmail
dot come. Thanks for listening and when things get weird
act normally
Hey, guys, we are back on normally the show with
normalish takes, but when the news gets weird. I am
Mary Catherine hamp.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Ma'm Carol Marcus and Mary Catherine. How's it going.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, you know, it's been a sad week.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
We were in Mexico City for the weekend, a trip
that we had planned for about a year. We got
tickets to see Oasis with the kids, and we almost canceled,
and we didn't just because we didn't want to disappoint
the kids. But I've just been I mean devastated, obviously.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Really really out of it.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And I have to say that my very normy, not
into politics, not super online husband has also been like that,
and we just have both been so sad and trying
to reflect and be optimistic for the kids.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Really, Yeah, it was. It's a very hard thing to see.
I mean, even if you didn't see it, just for
it to have happened at all, For a friend and
colleague to be gunned down for doing the thing that
we love to do. Yeah that And I don't mean
to make it about me, but it's very hard to
watch this thing that I love that I think is
(01:08):
very healing talking to people who believe differently. For you,
I grew up with all people who disagree with me
same and I have always engaged with them in civil
and almost all the time kind ways. Like I'm sure
I've misstepped here and there, but like, I think that's
what matters. I think that's what changes minds. I think
(01:28):
that's what works to save entire civilizations. And to have
that be the thing that is attacked in addition to
a human that I knew, is yeah, devastating.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's hard to recover from.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
We're gonna do a whole episode on the Charlie Kirk murder.
We're going to take it from three different perspectives. We're
going to do the future of the country, the future
of the conservative movement, and then had a parent in
the wake of this, we should do differently what we
do well now, that kind of thing. So let's get
into it.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Future of the country.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I felt like we were in a very optimistic place
for the last almost year. I have to tell you
that it was from the Donald Trump reelection.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I have felt like we.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Were recovering in so many ways that I really did
feel good about where we were going, and I understood
that not everybody agreed with everything he was doing, and
obviously I don't agree with every single thing.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Even though I hate to say stuff like that, in
this moment, I hate the I didn't agree with everything.
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I don't have to, you don't have to.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It makes no sense to agree with everything. I don't
agree with everything you say. I feel like we largely agree,
but like you know, it just we're different people and
that's okay. But you know, I have felt very good
about a lot of things in the last year, and
this has it's shaken that a little bit. It's shaken
that where I am afraid of, not just where I
(03:02):
think the left is. I'm afraid of kind of normal people,
the doctors and the nurses and the teachers and the
accountants who have been fired in the wake of saying
truly despicable things online about Charlie Kirk's murder. I'm afraid
that these people live among us, and they hate us.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And want us dead. And like you said, you.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Know, you and I grew up in places where people
largely disagreed with us, and I thought that we could
just do that in a kind, respectful fashion.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And now I no longer know yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I think in my personal life I have been careful
for the past I would say ten years or so
about what organizations I associate my family with, keeping my
job sort of hush hush when I'm entering a new
space at schools, at kid activities, when I'm seeking medical care. Now,
I think a lot of my friends on the left
(03:59):
would tell me that's crazy, that's that's paranoid. Why would
you do that. I don't think it feels that paranoid.
It doesn't, and it does worry me that someone would
take their feelings about my beliefs out on my family
and on services that we need. If you are in
a position of public trust and you are incapable of
(04:19):
regulating your emotions to the agree to the degree that
not only do you have the feeling that someone should
be killed for their political disagreements with you, but you
want to broadcast that I have some really serious questions.
I as some one of those serious questions. And I
am a person who has written a book about cancel
culture being bad before it had a name.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I defended Trevor Noah, James Gunn, any number of liberals
for old bad tweets I think offensive jokes are largely
pretty good. Yeah, like all the things tweets old tweets
shouldn't be a problem. All that kinds of up. I
don't want to all dug up. I feel like a
lot of this stuff is something that would have been
firal before cancel culture existed.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Right, that's sort of the difference here.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
It's that this isn't an uncomfortable joke you made ten
years ago. It's not something that was ever okay to
dance on someone's grave. And also just you know, the
people who think that they're being mgnanimous or something by
saying like, well, I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk on
all of these things, and they list everything they think
(05:25):
is terrible that he's ever said. You know, but it's
still wrong to kill him, Like you could just go
jump right ahead to it was wrong to kill him,
Like you don't have to do that. Nobody when grandma dies,
nobody's like here are all the offensive things she's ever
said at parties.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
You know, they just warn grandma that's it.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, I agree with you. And also people are allowed
to be a jerk about someone who just died, right, like,
and I don't think that's a viraable offense. I do
think of all the things we could ask most people
to agree on, agreeing as a free society with free speech,
it is not good to murder someone for that speech
(06:05):
is a pretty good one that we could be almost
unanimous on. Yeah, and I have been disturbed by how
many people I do not agree and to the practitioners
of the left to tell all of us that, oh, yeah,
now you want to do cancel culture, and they'll tell you,
they'll tell you you're doing cancel culture. And also this thing,
(06:26):
this problem we're seeing, doesn't exist. I'm like, no, it
does exist. It happened with Luigi Mangioni and the murder
of Brian Thompson. It's happening again. I'm less surprised because
of the sickness I saw after Brian Thompson was killed.
And it is dark.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
It's dark, it really is.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And you know, so you're talking about where I feel
like you and I differ a little bit.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think you're far kinder than me on this kind
of thing.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I'm kind of in the place of you wanted this
cancel culture game here it is. It doesn't work if
we're the only ones getting canceled.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yet to play like only the.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Left gets to choose who loses their job over speech
Like no, I'm sorry that that's not the way it's
going to go. And I think that the only way
this ends is if they have to live under the
consequences of their own rules. And I don't you know,
I don't see another path. The other thing, I don't
think I've heard anybody say this, but I think another
huge problem that we're facing, and this is really sort
(07:22):
of on the periphery of all the things we're talking about.
Everybody thinks that they're on a TV show or something
like my Facebook speed, Like you're an accountant.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Why are you issuing a statement on Charlie Kirk's death.
I just don't get it. I don't understand why you.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Think that you need to say something and why like
I get the outpouring of grief. I even understand the
I didn't agree with him, but you know, we shouldn't
kill each other, sure, but like, why are you writing
five hundred words on Charlie Kirk when this is not
your job and it's not what you do and people
don't turn to you in moments of you know, national
(07:58):
strife to say what is Larry the account and think
about this. I feel like people have gotten where. They
all think that they have an online brand. And speaking
of someone who has an online brand.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You don't want this. You don't want it. If it's
not your job, why do it well?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And even as people with an online brand, I didn't
make a statement, no, I'm in this, I'm in this milieu.
I'm in this work, this line of work. It is
very applicable to what I do a little too directly
applicable to what I do in a scary way. And
like you can, just like my Instagram doesn't have anything,
(08:34):
my Twitter has some stuff because this is what I
have capacity for, and I'm speaking about it publicly like
you just you don't have to, you don't. One thing
I hope for the future of the country is that
every I have noticed, invariably you click through or do
three seconds of research on whatever quote you come across
(08:55):
from Charlie Kirk. And there were plenty of things Charlie
said that I disagreed with, but invariably every quote I
come across and click through and watch it is a calm,
kind explication that treats people with like dignity, high emotional
IQ has a lot of facts at his disposal, and
(09:19):
in the end you go, well, this is like that's
what we're mad about. That's what we're mad.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
About, right, And I hope of context, I just want to.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Say, well, that's what I'm saying. It's like you click
through on the Second Amendment quote and you get this
like incredibly smart, sensitive, nuanced with all these caveats, discussion
of what having a second Amendment is, for what it
looks like and what are the realistic dangers of that
in a free society, because he's a realistic thinker, and
(09:50):
I just I listen to that answer and I go,
that is that's something I would go to a campus
and say, because I am a rational thinker who is
in favor of this fundament liberty, and to have it
distorted in that way is crazy. But I think a
lot of people are watching the videos and are probably
surprised at what they've been told about Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I hope, so I hope that they're not just relying
on social media posts by their most politically active friends
to tell them what he said and what he meant
and all of that. You know, Karen Attia, as we're recording.
This has just been fired by the Washington Post. She
completely misquoted Charlie Kirk, and this is why she was
fired over it. She quoted him as saying black women
(10:34):
do not have the brain pot processing power to be
taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Slot.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
He didn't say anything like that.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
He criticized Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Sheila Jackson Lee, but
he absolutely did not.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Say black women. And it is a lie to say that.
And I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Pointing out individual people that he disagreed with, or even
if he said something offensive about it, does not mean
that he was blaming all black women. Are talking about
all black women, and it is a lie, and I'm
glad she was fired for that.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I think that is a fireable offense.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Oh, you've made up quotes about a public figure in
the wake of his death. That's not very journalistic. That's
another thing that bothers me about Being anti cancel culture
does not mean you paint yourself into a corner with
every legacy media a hole. Yeah, can never lose their
gajillion dollar a year cush contract, right. Matthew dowd Over
(11:28):
at MSNBC in our one of coverage blamed Charlie Kirk
for his own death. Okay, here, here's the thing. It's
breaking news. You have a responsibility to be responsible. Your
job is to control your emotions in public. Your job
is to give people real information and barring that, just
(11:50):
do no harm. To borrow a phrase from the medical community. Look,
he's not good. He's not good at that job. Yeah,
I would argue he's not qualified for that job if
he can't do better than that. Last campaign he won
is two thousand and six. He does nothing but block
people who disagree with him because he cannot engage in
any disagreement, and he says really nasty things that he
(12:12):
later has to walk back, and even MSNBC is likely enough. Yeah,
at some point you're a Stephen Colbert and you're just
like you're dead weight. Man. He don't do this anymore.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
We're going to take a sharp break and come right
back and talk about where the conservative movement goes after
Charlie Kirk. But first, it was nearly two years ago
the terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and
took two hundred and fifty people hostage. Today, it seems
as if the cries of the dead and dying have
been drowned out by shouts of anti Semitic hatred, and
(12:45):
the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust
has been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away, a
light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of love
and support for the people of Israel called Flags of Fellowship,
and it's organized by the Internet National Fellowship of Christians
and Jews. And on October fifth, just a few weeks away,
millions across America will prayer fully plant an Israeli flag
(13:09):
and honor and solidarity with the victims of October seventh,
twenty twenty three and their grieving families. And now you
can be part of this movement too. To get more
information about how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement,
visit Fellowship online at IFCJ dot org. That's IFCJ dot org.
More from the Charlie Kirk assassination fallout coming up.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
All right, we are back on normally, okay. Future of
the country now, future of the conservative movement. Charlie built
something really big. He was a leader in a way
that I am not capable of being. It was impressive
to watch. I have spoken at a turning point events
in the past, even when, by the way, Charlie and
I were in open disagreement about things, he would have
me come speak at his organization because he liked different
(13:57):
voices there. It's interesting the impact that he has had
on young people. What do you think happens from here
for the conservative movement, Well.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
The toughest part is appealing to the young audience. Everybody
has a podcast, you know, when I've been asked in
the last few days, like you know some who's picking
up you know the microphone and what people mean obviously
is the exchange with students, but.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
The whole having a perspective. Everybody's got one.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
It's the going into places where you might face opposition
and having tough conversations and doing it with a smile,
which I don't have any capacity.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
For it all. Either.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I can argue with my friends, I can argue on
the internet, going and specifically having arguments. I really respected
him for that and I don't have them just I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Have the same will to go do that. But I
love that he was doing it. So it's the young people.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I think that the conservative movement should be most worried
about not continuing down the path that Charlie was taking us,
because for the first time young people were voting Republican,
young men more than women.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
But still both had shifted.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Right in the last you know, four or five years,
and Charlie played a huge role in that. And I
don't know exactly who comes next now. Names that I've
heard that I say a big buck no to is
Nick Fuentes. Absolutely not and and also not just absolutely not,
like stop elevating this clown. It's crazy to me that
(15:28):
this online degenerate who makes it.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Even good charm? There's no if you took the belief
society exactly. He's not good to watch, right.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
He's only good when he's like punching Candice Owens, Like
that's really where he shines.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I ran a raq war situation is the only place
that I want to root for injuries.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
But it's just he he has no skill or basis
in this. He is this weird, hateful dude who I
just find him totally uninteresting. He's never made a point
that I was like, you know, even though we disagree,
I find him like, no, not at all. And so
(16:10):
I don't know otherwise, I kind of think it's somebody
that we don't know yet.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
That there will be people that rise from this.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You know, people are forming Turning Point chapters all over
the country in high.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Schools and in colleges.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
There's going to be people that rise up from the
movement and do what Charlie did in the same way,
that similar way that he did it, in a really smart.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Fashion, and take the argument to the students. A lot
of people are good at this kind of thing. Ben
Shapiro springs to mind. Ben Shapiro is, you know, I
don't want to say older, but he's our age. He's like,
you know, we're not going to college campuses.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
And while Ben does a great job of debating with people,
I think he's really stellar at that.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I do think it needs to be.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
College age, somebody in the same age brackets as these
young people in order to have that conversation. Charlie was
only thirty one, and he'd been doing this for a
long time. He was able to talk to these young
people because he was them five minutes ago. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Well, and it is tricky because it is a very
it's a it's a real skill, and I actually so
I don't have the skill of building the organization like
he did. I do have the skill of talking like
I do. Like going to college campuses. I do like
when they stand up in front of me and have
a question that they feel like I've never heard before,
(17:31):
and they're like, I'm really gonna get her. I just
say kindly, like I've heard that before, and I am
happy to walk you through it. Like the idea that
a woman could be a conservative. That's what I'm here for.
And it's it is so much fun, and you could
see it in Charlie's clips and edifying to have that
conversation and at the end of a thirty minute, hour
(17:52):
long session, and none of mine were nearly as high
profile as Charlie's, but to see a bunch of Harvard
students look at you and be like I thought I
was gonna hate her, and I'm right that I don't, right, Like,
that's that's what you're looking for. So I think it's
important for people like Ben and I'm nobody, but I
would also be willing to take up the mic and
(18:13):
do these things. I would not be as good at it.
It's very stressful, it's very hard work. Without the fear
that is now instilled. But it's really important for people
to get out there and say we are going to
continue to do this with whatever security needs being met.
And by the way, colleges need to make sure that
they are proactively doing that. There are a lot of
them aren't interested in it because speech, but I think
(18:35):
that's really important. I think you're right that a young
person is better positioned for it. And also to be
that well read and to deploy that kind of emotional
IQ and to parry with anyone and everyone is a
very big ask. The thing that's cool about Charlie is
that he built this organization that is well funded, has
a bunch of people who believe in it, who has
(18:58):
many employees. Any number of those folks can take up
the mantle, right And then there's, like you said, many
people inspired who we don't even know about yet exactly.
But I think the I think the murder of Charlie
Kirk is affecting young people in a way that most
media and liberal bubble people will missing not understand they're
(19:20):
missing it. Are people are taking a second look at
their faiths. People have never stepped into a church before
are doing it. I wrote about it in The Free
press today saying like, yeah, maybe take a chance on God,
because dark times are both an invitation to faith and
a test of it. Yeah, and you may find that
this is exactly the thing that will help you through
(19:40):
these times, as I have in the past. By the way,
I also want to say a person who could take
up his mantle and Erica Kirk So, Erica Kirk gave
a stunning, strong, forceful, beautiful tribute to her husband and
his work just days after he was killed. She's fantastic,
she really is. She is clearly, she clearly has a
(20:03):
fierce faith. It will serve her well as she moves forward.
A lot of not low profile, not rando people on
the left were coming at her for supporting her husband's
vision and in the wake of his death and oh,
looking a little mad about it. She should be mad
about it, guys. She should be mad about it. And
(20:24):
if she wants to channel that energy into supporting the
thing that her husband died doing, she should do that.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Absolutely should do that.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
That's a perfect way to mourn.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Actually, yeah, I thought her speech was incredible. How strong
she is. And look, I'm full of anger. I could
just imagine where she is and the fact that she
was able to.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Deliver those beautiful words.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
So shortly after his murder, and you know, people are like, oh,
we need somebody to unite us. She has been a
uniting figure in this terrible, terrible time. I'm fully supportive
of her taking ho here.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I'm going to be on his widow defense duty for
like the next two years for Erica Kirk, like as
she may never know who I am, but I'm going
to be out here, like y'all need to shut up.
She's doing a great job. She's fantastic. She's getting it done. Yeah,
it's a hard job in front of her, and she's
approaching it with really impressive strength.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Are you optimistic about the conservative movement going forward?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I tend to be an optimistic person, even in dark times.
And I think seeing despite what the left would tell
you and much of the media attempts to tell you
that the real scary thing is the foreboding response of
the right to their their figure being murdered for speaking,
how dare we it's not foreboding. Actually, Erica Kirk did
(21:47):
a beautiful thing. The candlelight vigils are not mostly peaceful,
but peaceful to the extent that they're not peaceful. It's
because lefties come and throw things and stomp on flowers
and yell ape okay, So that being the coming together
of our side does make me feel better because there
have been moments when our side has done bad things.
(22:08):
And sure, but our response to this is not.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Even in the same universe.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, our response to this is not twenty twenty. It's
actually beautiful and redemptive, and I hope it continues to
go down that road.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I'm also optimistic.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I think that this will unite us in a way
that the left can't imagine. I think most people on
the right are realizing that we have to stop the infighting.
I think that a lot of the stupidity, you know,
a lot of it's personal. I think people don't realize
how much of political infighting is actually I just don't
like that person, and that's where it comes from.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Which let me tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
When I first went to DC in grad school, you know,
to work there, I was shocked by this. I was
shocked because I was such a movement conservative and I
was going to get along with everybody and it didn't matter.
And I was like, no, people sometimes just don't like
each other, and that's where political infighting comes from. And
it's wild and crazy, and I think we're going to
pause it. I don't look my naive. Do I think
(23:02):
it's gonna last forever? No, but I would bet we're
going to see some reconciliations that will even surprise us.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
We'll be right back with.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
More on normally and how to parent in the wake
of the Charlie Kirk murder. Be right back, Welcome back
to normally, where we are talking about the murder of
Charlie Kirk, what it means for the country, what it
means for the conservative movement, how to not end up
(23:32):
with a child who was radicalized. All of this matters,
and I think that it's important to have these conversations.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Now.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I'll tell you you know, as you know, Bethany Mandel
and I co authored a book two years ago.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It was about how.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Children get radicalized and it was called Stolen Youth, and
it's about how all the different parts of society radicalized
children to the left.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And as I was on book.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Tour for this, so many parents came up to me
and told me the stories. They all started the same way.
They were like I lost my child, and I was like, wow,
what happened, and it's always raised them thinking that they
were going to live our values, and we didn't talk
about politics in the home, and then they went to
(24:16):
college and people filled it in.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And I think that what conservatives.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Need to understand is that it's okay to have a
perspective with your children. You don't have to kind of
tell them about the world and tell them that all
opinions are equal. In our house, we know that some
opinions are much better than other opinions, right right, there's
no Look. Do I tell them what the other perspectives are.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I do.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
But do I tell them that those perspectives are wrong
or my perspective is better?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Of course I do. That's the normal way to talk
about things, like I think that what.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I believe on issues A, B, and C are the
way that you should think about it. If you happen
to think a different way about it, let's discuss it.
But I'm not going to present all their perspectives that
I consider harmful or bad as equal to mine. They aren't,
And I think the kids need to hear that.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, I think your book actually inspired me to be
more upfront with my kids, because sometimes it can feel
like when you're parenting that there's so much going on
that doing the basic work. And actually, weirdly, COVID helped
me with this because I was homeschooling, so I was
a little bit on the ground floor of creating.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I want to creating, actually homeschooling, not you know, I
know you came up with the term zoom butler.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I was not.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah I was. I was not zoom butlering. I was
actually homeschooling. But it helped because I got to shape
and build the foundation of their understanding of why they're
so blessed to live here in this time, in this country.
And we do a lot of emphasis on that, and
we do faith teachings in our house, and we do
not leave it to chance that some rando will come
(25:57):
along and be like, hey, I've got a new idea
for you that is and it has nothing to stand
up against it, right, you know, I don't want to
leave that vacuum. I do want my kids to be
free thinkers. That's one of the values that we that
we talk about is that you can have that back
and forth. But I will say that having a conversation
with my kids this weekend about Charlie Kirk specifically is
(26:23):
tough because I don't want them to be scared for me, right,
and it's hard to communicate this without them drawing that
conclusion absolutely.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
The other thing that I would say, so two things. One,
keep your kids off TikTok. I know I hear parents
all the time say how how do.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You keep your kids off TikTok?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
You just don't let them download it, like if you
if you must do Instagram. Instagram reels very similar to TikTok,
usually a few weeks behind. I just find them to
be less radicalizing, less intense, They come across, less crazy stuff.
I mean, I want to inta I never see kind
of insane things that I know my friends see on TikTok.
(27:06):
Them off TikTok. Well, today Trump announced a TikTok deal
has been reached. Young people will be very happy. I'm
definitely concerned about that, you know, talking about things of
Donald Trump and I disagree on I think TikTok needs
to be sold. I think he needs to follow the
Supreme Court on this. And I think TikTok is harmful.
It's actively harming our children, and it's not accidental.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It's harm it's harming them on purpose. It is a
weapon being used by the CCP, by the Chinese Communist
Party exactly. Yeah, now that I do think the idea
of giving your kids unfettered social media access when they're young,
and a lot of people do throw up their hands
and go like, what, well, how can I not give
(27:49):
them that?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And I understand that COVID made that harder because they
made you stay at home, right, it made you work.
They didn't have your kids in school, and you were like,
my kid needs these devices to make friends with people
because they won't let us go out in the real world.
I get that, and also we have to modulate like that.
It's just yeah, it's very very toxic. I mean I have,
(28:13):
as you know, we both have a brand. I've been
on social media since I was came out, right, Like
since it came out. I was on Friendster, right, But
I was a fully grown person with a full frontal
lobe when I became a public figure who had this
kind of feedback that is essentially what everyone gets now
right before, I had that real time feedback about myself.
(28:36):
And I can't imagine how I would have turned out
had I had that When I was thirteen years old.
It absolutely really would have been devastating.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
The second thing I want to say, well, we'll wrap
up after this, but you know, you talk about faith,
and it's you know, I'm often jealous of Christians because
I feel like you guys can find openly conservative spaces,
and it's so much hart in the Jewish world. I'm
not Orthodox, and I have written so many complaints about
(29:04):
how hard it is in the Jewish world to be
a small c conservative, even though a lot of Jews
are moving to the right in the last you know,
let's call it almost two years now. But what I'll
say is I'm going to make an effort to find
other Jewish conservatives to be able for that. I feel
fairly open. I was born in the Soviet Union. As
(29:25):
you know, my community is very conservative. I've always felt
very open about my politics, but I know that other
Jews don't. I'm going to try to forge more community
for myself, for others like me, in order for them
to be more open about who they are politically, and
so that they could pass that along to their kids
as well. I think you need to have that, and
you need to have other people in your universe, in
(29:48):
your faith in your politics so that your kids can
see other families like yours. You can't do it in
a silo. If you are trying to do it in
a silo, please find others like whether you know you're
Christian or Jewish or anything else, find other people that
share your faith, that share your politics. Raise your kids together,
create something for your children to have a defense against
(30:12):
all the bad ideas that they will inevitably hear.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, I think they've done the opposite of silencing us.
Whoever you know, the shooter, this murderer, the opposite of
silencing me. I am going to be.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, we're bortter than ever.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Probably, I'm probably going to put more things on more
different social medias. And you know, like you said, join
with other families who, by the way, are having four
and six kids each yep, to the one on the
other side, and making sure that we are inculcating all
of that stuff so another generation can can appreciate the
(30:45):
things that we have grown up with.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
In this house, we protect our values, live it.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Thanks for joining us on normally normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
in touch with us at normally the pod at gmail
dot come. Thanks for listening and when things get weird
act normally
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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