September 18, 2025 • 30 mins
Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz unpack the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s murder, analyzing how the media has framed the tragedy and what it means for American politics. They discuss bipartisan reactions, the importance of standing with Israel, and the difficult but necessary task of addressing political violence with children. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, guys, they are back to normal. The show with
normal it takes for when the news gets weird.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I like that, and I'm Karl Marcowitz.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
We remain at normally consumed with the murder of Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm sure that is true for a lot of you
out there.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hear from a lot of my normy friends whose jobs
are not in politics, who are not online all the time,
that they really can't stop thinking about Charlie and what happened,
and it's affected them so much.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
So we're going to talk about it some more today, And.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Today we're going to start with why did the killer
did this and all the different reasons that crazy people
on the internet have invented for it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Mm hmmm. Yeah. There has been an attempt to sort
of make sure that everyone left of center and anyone
else they can grab, understands that a groyper, a right
leaning far right person is the person who perpetrated this crime. Now,
those same people will tell you, oh, we must be
(01:05):
very measured and slow to come to conclusions about motives.
I will grant you that, right, Like, there's an Okham's
raiser here where if someone's killing Charlie Kirk, I think
we can guess what that person's political leanings and motives
might be. But there are assassinations that happen that are
just a crazy person. Jared Laffner shooting Gabby Gifford's is one.
(01:26):
Hinckley shooting Reagan is one. These were not politically motivated,
but they are assassination attempts.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
In this case, we now have evidence that it was
not some far right leaning person or someone who agreed
super hard with Charlie Kirk. It was, in fact a
left leaning young man in a relationship with a trans
boyfriend or somebody who was in the process of transitioning.
We have texts between the two of them released by
(01:54):
law enforcement to that effect, saying I did it because
I couldn't take his hate. Some hate you can't negotiate
out of.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, so he was pretty clear there.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I'll say that you know, this lie that it was
somebody on the right that did this is effective. There
was a y goov survey released where the question was,
as far as you know, is the person who shot
Charliekirk dot dot dot question mark a Democrat twenty one percent,
(02:29):
a Republican twenty four percent, not sure? Was forty percent,
but more people think the person who shot Charlie Kirk
was a Republican than think he was a Democrat.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
That's a problem, and.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's on purpose. It's on purpose.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
It's clear that the media is not just not doing
its job of educating the public letting people know what
really happened, but they're covering up what really happened. They're
lying about what really happened, and it matters.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I think I've written before, and I think it might
have been into discussion that when there is left wing violence,
that's very very clear, they either erase it entirely so
they can move on, or they alchemize it into right
wing violence. Right, So this is a great example of
them sort of just turning it into right wing violence
when there is no evidence of that. And by the way,
(03:20):
I would like to shout out Will Stancil, who is
a a very left leaning writer who is over on
Blue Sky fighting the good fight, to say.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Guys holding back the horns.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's like to say, guys, you have fooled yourself into
believing this thing that's not real. There is zero evidence
that this person is a groper, and there is significant
evidence that he is a left leaning person who was
radicalized into shooting someone for his beliefs. That's quite clear,
So shout out to him for that. Jimmy Kimmel, on
(03:52):
the other hand, really taken the first theory and running
with it. Here he is on late night TV It's.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
New Lows over the weekend with the Magga Gang desperately
trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as
anything other than one of them and do everything they
can to score political points from it. In between the
finger pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House
flew the flags at half staff, which got some criticism,
but on a human level, you can see how hard
(04:20):
the President is taking this a adults on the lock.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Of your friend Charlie Kirk, Sir personally, how are you
holding up for the last day and a half, sirve.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I think very good. And by the way, right there
you see all the trucks.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
They just started construction.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Of the new ball room for the White House, which.
Speaker 6 (04:37):
Is something they've been trying to get.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
As you know, for about one hundred and fifty years,
and it's going to be a beauty. Yes, he's at
the fourth stage of grief. Construction, the demolition.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Construction.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
This is not how an adult griefs the murderer of
somebody called a friend. This is how a four year
old mourns a goldfish.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Okay, the right's response, or was the new low the
murdering of a political opponent for speaking on a campus?
Because I think that was the low.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
If you want to talk a new new low, it's
the left pretending it was the right, Jimmy Kimmel pretending
it was maga.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I mean, what is the argument here that this.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Guy just loved Charlie Kirk so much he wanted to
kill him, Like, is that really what we're going with?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Like he killed them well, and some of the arguments
from the left are that he engraved things on the
bullets to set up the left. Randy Weingarten, head of
the Teacher's Union and famously democratically aligned national figure who
gets to write their policies for them, she put out
like the false flag narrative in detail from some a poster.
(05:50):
Yeah yeah, she was like, let me amplify this to everyone,
and someone read this. Some of you read this as
a false flag. So I'm going to take it down. Know,
we just read what you posted.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah about your post seracy theories.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
She's all about it.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
During COVID she said that Ron DeSantis was hiding COVID deaths.
I mean, she's often at the at the forefront of that.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
But yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It makes no sense, and it's so disingenuous. And again,
what's the most unfortunate about it is that it's working.
And I think if you're getting your news from mainstream media,
which is a crazy thing to do.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
In twenty twenty five, double check it, double check it.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Friends, it isn't you know without question that they could
easily lie to you, and a lot of them are
doing just that.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I wanted to add Kaitlin Collins here, she was interviewing
Ted Cruz and he was saying, you know, the motive
is clearly what the motive is, which the law enforcement
is doing a press conference and informing us of in
texts that they have released. The man is alive, by
the way, he will continue to talk to law enforcement. Yeah,
thereby disproving this nonsense. And Caitlin Collins would not back
(07:07):
down from the idea that there is no motive established
that you know that what those texts are different from
establishing a motive Senator, Senator. There are lots of instances
of political violence, and she name checked Melissa Hortman, who's
terrible murder in Minnesota happened earlier this year. Again, like
(07:28):
Hinckley and Reagan, not politically motivated, this was a guy
who thought Waltz was telling him to murder a member
of the Minnesota House or Senate, like, this is not
the same thing. She also mentioned Pelosi's husband, again not
politically motivated. A weird incident, but not politically motivated. And third,
(07:50):
she mentioned in the phrase and the phrasing was a
tax on Democrats. She mentioned the assassination at on Brett Kavanaugh.
So magically, yet another thing has been alchemized somehow into
our fault being shot.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, a lot of people are also picking up the
Josh Shapiro having his house spurned down, also a leftist,
also a three Palestine leftists. So this is why it's
kind of tough even today to be a conservative because
the mainstream media, once it gets going, it's very hard
to stop the narrative. And I think we're going to
(08:30):
do our best, but if you're hearing that this is
a conservative who shot Charlie Kirk, because they just you know,
he just loved the way he magot and he wanted
a mago with.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Him, and he wanted to kill him.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
That makes no sense at all.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
On the right there is some of this where some
real lunatics are saying that Israel killed Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Again, why why would they kill somebody who was such
a huge supporter.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Why wouldn't they Again, nobody's suggesting that anybody should die
for their beliefs, But why would they go after somebody
who loved them as opposed to all the people who
hate them?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
That why are all those people safe?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
That is a mystery, Like, that's the thing. None of
this passes the smell test. Let me also mention that
Nera Tanden Democratic operative who was on a CNN panel,
was talking with a young conservative woman, Brianna Lyman, who
did a great job, and Brianna mentioned, Hey, there are
three assassination investigations slash trials happening right now. Luigi Mangioni,
(09:35):
Ryan Ralph and Tyler Robinson. What do all three of
those have in common? They were political assassinations and assassination
attempts by the left, and Neira Tanden laughed. This young
woman was saying, we have to worry about this. My
young friends who speak on campusers are the ones who
have to worry about this. Near Tanna laughed at her
(09:56):
and said, there's a lot of trials for political violence
going on. Ca come up with any off the top
of her. She can't come up with any. But they
won't even let you have your mourning. They won't let
you have your fear. They won't legitimize any of it.
And the one person who's going above and beyond will
(10:16):
stancl We already named check as reclined going above and
beyond to say not only was Charlie Kirk doing this
the right way, I will encourage more of it, and
I will have people like Charlie and people living out
his legacy on my show to engage with them. And
he is getting dreamed for it.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I would say that, you know, I'm pleased that those
two are doing it.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
They're a surprising duo for this.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
But you know, when the right needs self policing, there
are a lot of people on the right willing to
do it. It wouldn't be just two, it would be
multitude of people writing. I think piece is about this
is not who we are, and I'd love to see
the left step up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
A really good example of that was yesterday when Pam
Bondi stepped in it twice by totally messing up the
idea of the First Amendment and hate speech, and the
entire right came down on her and Trump up to
and including a bunch of people saying maybe she should
get fired for this. I mean, like we do the
thing that is the thing, that is something we can do,
(11:21):
and some argue we do it too often. But in
this case, I do think she was really wrong about this.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Totally agree.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
More coming up on normally, but before that, I want
to talk to you about something that's close to both
carols in my hearts. It was nearly two years ago
that terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and
took two hundred and fifty hostages. Today, it seems as
if the cries of the dead and dying have been
drowned out by shouts of anti Semitic hatred, and the
most brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust has
(11:47):
been forgotten in some quarters. Yet, as the world looks away,
a light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of
love and support for the people of Israel called Flags
of Fellowship, and I know some of you will want
to get involved. It's organ by the International Fellowship of
Christians and Jews, and on October fifth, just a few
weeks away, millions across America were prayerfully planted an Israeli
(12:08):
flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of October seventh,
twenty twenty three and their grieving families. And now you
can be a part of it as well. To get
more information about how you can join the Flags of
Fellowship movement, visit the Fellowship online at IFCJ dot org.
That's IFCJ dot org.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
We'll be right back with more normally.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Welcome back to normally where we're going to be getting
into how the left has been conducting itself after the
assassination of Charlie Kirk. And I will for one say
not well, not well with the behavior since his murder.
What do you say, Mary Katherine?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Look, the issue is again, I think if it were
me right and this happened the other way around, I
would be doing everything I could because once someone is
more for their beliefs. It's not enough just to be
like that was bad, right. You have to make sure
that the people who are in Charlie's position, or whoever
the analog is on the left feel free to speak.
(13:11):
You have to go above and beyond to say I
want to make sure you are safe, right, I want
to make sure you have space to make your arguments.
And the left is so far from that. It is
all the way around to making fun of us or
celebrating the murders. That's how far off they are from it.
(13:32):
And then they will do the other thing, which is
deny that any of the bad behavior is happening.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
It's infuriating, it really is. You know, look, a lot
of people have said a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Of stupid things.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I really haven't highlighted most of them. But there was
a video that libs of TikTok posted yesterday.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
That really affected me. It was a guy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
They were holding a vigil and this guy and his
friends were coming in and like tapping their necks and
you know, imitating Charlie.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Having to die.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, and it really really pissed me off, and I
tweeted about it, like I'm supposed to be hoped that
this guy's life isn't ruined.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What am I supposed to want him to be? My dentist,
my kid's teacher. Be serious.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
A lot of people are saying that we should have
some grace. What if this person apologizes? You know, I
think this person should apologize. I think that that's what
should happen. It was at Texas State University. Apparently the
student has been expelled. I have a real hard time
feeling sorry for him. I have a real hard time
and I just, you know, sorry. I'll just say one thing.
(14:34):
I have a column in you know, Wednesday's New York
Post about how Democrats should step up and say something,
and a line that got cut I think for space was,
you know, the idea that we would work with people
who have ideas like this. I get we shouldn't be
blanket firing. I get people say dumb stuff, but like,
(14:55):
what if you say something they disagree.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
With at lunch, like what happened?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
What are they going to do to you? Like what
if they wouldn't murder you? What if they would just
beat you up after work? It's not crazy that they
think that violence is the answer to words that they
don't like.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
That you're going to have to watch what.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
You say, and that's the society that none of us
should want.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
To live in.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I would also add that that student, if you are
told that that student was merely expelled for his views,
he also trampled things at that event, spit and used
a racial slur, apparently violating several of the school's rules,
and so that you know, it was a little bit
more than just saying things or pantomiming gross things. And yeah,
(15:37):
I think there's this thing where to the left, and
I think it's particularly notable here in the trans community.
Especially mis gendering is an act of violence that is
worthy of all sorts of punishment, the most punishment, whereas
actually wishing violence upon someone and celebrating violence for a
(16:00):
disagreement is not even close. Toupun amazing, right, yeah, really, really,
that's amazing. And look, I do think there's also an
issue of, just as you point out, emotional self control
with these folks, like there was a whole group of
people outside of Luigi Mangioni's trial. First of all, you're
(16:21):
spending your day outside of Luigi Mangioni's trial of the
one of the charges was dropped, a terrorism charge. I
think he still would be facing stiff charges regardless. The
people outside allegedly sort of normal people wearing Luigi hats, which,
by the way, is a smear to Luigi and Mario's
(16:41):
the good the good character of Mario and Luigi's plumbing business.
But they're out there wearing the Luigi hats and they
all cheer. And you're telling me that I need to
be happy to work with the people who sheer actual murderers.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And I think that's an emotional regulation sewer that I'm
not going near.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Right, and the idea of that, like he didn't like
what insurance companies, how insurance companies treat people, so he
got to just kill a random ceo, Like can we
just kill people that we don't approve of what job
they do? I mean, this is where you are now,
and this is what you're defending. And again I so
in my column, I you know, I really do think
(17:23):
that democrats owe it to our society to bring that
temperature down. Recognize that this is on your side. This
is happening only on the left. I'm not saying the
right is perfect. Lots of problems on the right, but
this is celeborting.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, this is on the left.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I just don't see this on the right. I'm going
to crib a point from my good friend Michael moynihan,
who he's You can get out of the morass of
arguing about who did this, for what reason? Who does
and counting them up. You know how you know it's
a left problem. You know it's a left problem because
the left repeatedly valorizes and institutionally rewards actual, literal, convicted
(18:06):
domestic terrorists and murderers by making them college professors. Yep,
they have jobs in academia because and they're not repentant.
Bill Airs and Bernadine Dorn are not are not repentant
for having tried to blow up a rotzy dance filled
with active duty military in a dance hall. Yeah, Kathy
(18:31):
bud On or however you say her last name is
not like she killed a Brinks truck driver and was
part of this conspiracy that killed a Brinks truck driver.
Innocent guy Angela Davis, weapons used in several murders, like
served time for a felony. These protect people. These are
people who you have elevated and you tell young people
(18:55):
on campus that they are people worth listening to. It's
not even rare. They're all over the place.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It's also like they can't criticize these protesters and these
people who are celebrating the murder because they will have
to first admit that they exist, and they don't seem
like they're willing.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
To do that.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
We're gonna play a clip from Scott Jennings, who just
is does really heroic work at CNN taking on the
batshit crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Let's roll the clip.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Everybody here acknowledges that there have been thousands upon thousands
of people, ordinary people, who have taken to social media
to celebrate this.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yes or no, I don't know about that.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Second. I just think we should just there's we got
to be factual about this, right. I don't think you
know the scope. I don't know the scope, but I
do think that we have to distinguish between random people
in the world and something that is a dominant issue
because the.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Person who a person in the world. You know, here's
the thing that's the danger.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
You dismissed the random people the world. They have access.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
We assassinations in hate this country. There have been political
assassinations in this country before. Scott, wouldn't you agree, and
they're all comprehensible. And in this country, do you believe
that in those political assassinations in the sixties and the
seventies and the eighties assassination attempts, that there were no
Americans who cheered that on. I think the question anything,
the question is whether it's gilla, whether or not it happens.
(20:24):
The question is whether or not we need to place
that at the very center of our political world right
now and categorize half the people in the country according
to those random people that we now just happened to
see because.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Of the she's working so hard. It's to depend people
who celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. She's working so hard.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
She's gone back to the is to say, I'm sure
there are people that celebrated here too. We just didn't
find out about it because of the internet, which is
the only thing they've put it on the Internet.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yes, they've broadcast that she's working so hard. If I
were in that position, by the way, and it were flipped,
I'm just going to use me as the example because
I do the same job that these folks do. And
you brought up that people on the right had celebrated
the death of someone killed for their beliefs. You know
what I would do, I'd be like, that's the most
(21:19):
horrific thing I've seen this. Yeah, I condemn it in
the strongest possible terms. I do not want to be
associated with it in any way, shape or form. I
think it exists in too many places. Just do the thing,
Just do the decent easy Paul right, and they can't
do it.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
There was a yugo of poll a few days ago
that found thirty four percent of liberal or very liberal
people say it's acceptable to be happy about a public
figure's death. Only seven percent of conservatives or very conservative
people agree.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sorry, that is.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
A widespread hues.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Don't say that this is something normal that oh, you know,
in the eighties people also felt like this. These people
posted it on the Internet for everybody to see.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
When she brings up assassinations of other decades, also like
Kennedy was assassinated by a COMMI right who didn't like
that he was an anti COMMI.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, continues to be leftists.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Well, and we have been gas lit about that for decades,
saying that it was Dallas's right wing stew that created
this defected to the USSR commie shooter, which wasn't true.
R FK killed by a Palestinian activist. I mean, it's
just can we, just as she requests, deal in facts? Yeah,
(22:38):
can we deal in facts?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But they don't.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
They just don't. And the thing is the left just
gets to say whatever they want. Could they could say, oh,
what are you talking about? There have not been thousands
of people on the internet celebrating the death.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
What do you even say?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Or Randy Weingarten continues to use words like fascists to
describe people that she disagrees with, and that's supposed to
some how, you know, be okay.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It just she's at that. This week, she's doing her
book tour about how teachers are the antidote to fascism.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah. I guess people who don't remember four years ago
will maybe believe that because I remember her fascist shutting
down of schools and then and then shutting down the
opinions of anybody who disagreed with her, and working with
the media to do it, you know, and the government obviously,
but with the media, they helped her, and they made
(23:34):
sure that people were misinformed about what was actually going on,
so that Randy Winegarden could get her.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Way, yes, you know, or left, she's going to go
all around the country and be like the fascists who
live in this country are the problem, and they're all
just gonna talk about it all day long. Gleefully, let's
take a.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Short break and we'll be right back on normally talking
about how to talk to your kids about this.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
We are back on normally, and I'm actually gonna toss
around some ideas ask for some advice, because I don't
usually run into the issue of not knowing how to
talk to my kids about something. Often I feel pretty
confident about what I can take a pass on and
it's too grown up for them, or things that we
need to address and that kind of thing. But I
(24:22):
find that my values are colliding here because I want
my kids to know the importance of speech, the importance
of someone like Charlie. They were too young to really
watch him or know who he was. They don't do
a lot of internet access, but they are old enough
to be scared for me, and they are going to
clock right away that Charlie's job was Mom's job, and
(24:43):
that when I travel to do it, you know, it's
not that it's not that satisfying to be like, it's
statistically improbable that doing my job. I don't know how
deep to go with this with them, but I think
it's really important that they understand it also.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And it's also the but even if you don't do
what we do, we tell our kids to stand up
for their opinions, to say what they really think, to
be fearless in their lives, to be brave. And here
with somebody who was fearless. And here's somebody who was brave.
And here's somebody who was saying what he really thought
and living his faith and doing all the things that
we tell our kids to do, and he was killed
(25:21):
for it.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It's very, very hard.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I think also, as your kids get older, they're going
to hear about things you know before you get a
chance to fill it in. So like what you're saying
to them now lays the basis for later, and it's
a really tough call. I don't know. I think that
I know you're doing a great job, and I think
that having an open line of communication with your kids
(25:44):
where they could tell you, Mom, i'm afraid for you,
is the best result.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
It's what you want.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
You want them to be able to tell you their
fears and what they're really thinking about.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
No, that's a fair point. We were kind of in
this little bubble of being on a family trip when
this happened, as you guys were as well, and so
I didn't broach it then, but I have broached it
lightly since, and I probably do need to have like
a you know, like a sit down with them where
they could toss around some ideas about it, because they're
old enough to metabolize it. They're old enough to think
(26:19):
about it, and they're old enough to think about, you know,
and to hear about why speech is important, why standing
up for yourself is important, Like it's actually more important
that I go do my job, yeah than it was
lasting exactly. Since this is a hard subject, I want
to uplift us with Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins
talking to Bill Maher about parenthood. And I also saw
a clip from Bob Odenkirk of Better Call Saul and
(26:42):
Breaking Bad Fame talking about parenthood recently too, and he
said the great thing about parenting young children is that
you never have to wonder what your purpose is because
your purpose is right in front of you all the time.
And she said he was actually jealous of people who
have young kids in their house because they don't have
to worry about their own vanity and their ambitions and there,
which is like such a nice frame if you're living
(27:04):
in it feels like hmmm, sy wethink it. But here's
here's Billy Corgan talking about parenthood in a beautiful way.
And I'm loving this trend. I hope we can see
more of it.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I had a million dollars by the time I was
twenty four years old. Okay. A year before that, I
was making twelve thousand dollars a year working at a
record store, and I was broke. So I'm a million
you know. I mean, we grew up in a time
where millionaire. These days millionaires not doesn't mean as much.
But the word millionaire still meant something in my brain
when I was twenty years old. So I have a
million dollars when I'm twenty four years old. By the
(27:34):
time I'm twenty six, I'm TV Platinum Records, Sarahight Live Cover,
Rolling Stone. I mean I basically did by my mid twenties,
like most of the checklists.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
All the bucks, okay, and I.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Never felt this sense of satisfaction about it, and I
couldn't quite understand why because everybody around me is like,
this is fucking incredible, and I was like, it is
and it isn't okay. So to answer your question, the
problem with all of it is transactional because no matter
how many hit songs you write, it's always what about
the next one. No matter how many records you're sold,
(28:09):
there's always somebody's going to sell more records than you.
No matter how good you are, there's always somebody telling
you writing online that you're the worst thing that ever happened.
There was always like an asterisk or a qualifier. And
I mean even my band at times was transactional with me.
I mean I would write these massive songs and they
were kind of like they didn't give a shit. It
(28:30):
was weird. W Well, that could send a band psychology
and we could talk about it if you want. But
just to finish the little spiel, only unconditional love in
some facet of your life gives you the proper perspective
to appreciate what is great about transactional things, but allows
you to see them for what they are, which is transactional.
(28:50):
There's no val hall at the top of Rock Mountain.
There isn't and I've been there multiple times. So when
I stand in front of sixty five thousand people, in
my hierarchical mind, my family is still above that.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Right Sure.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
I tell my kids all the time, and there's still
little kids, and hopefully it'll endure in their brain.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
That was so nice, and like listen to people like him.
I think Scotti Scheffler the golfer, was another one who
recently said almost exactly this, So that I can win
every tournament and it's done by the next week, right,
the things that matter are my kids and my wife.
He has one kid, My kid, and my wife. And
it's interesting to hear people who have hit that pinnacle
(29:33):
of success say that this is still the thing that
I love, really really matters.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
I love it and just to bring it back around.
That's what Charlie would say as well. Well, thanks for
joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and
you could subscribe anywhere.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Get in touch with us at Normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally
Hey, guys, they are back to normal. The show with
normal it takes for when the news gets weird.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I like that, and I'm Karl Marcowitz.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
We remain at normally consumed with the murder of Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm sure that is true for a lot of you
out there.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hear from a lot of my normy friends whose jobs
are not in politics, who are not online all the time,
that they really can't stop thinking about Charlie and what happened,
and it's affected them so much.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
So we're going to talk about it some more today, And.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Today we're going to start with why did the killer
did this and all the different reasons that crazy people
on the internet have invented for it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Mm hmmm. Yeah. There has been an attempt to sort
of make sure that everyone left of center and anyone
else they can grab, understands that a groyper, a right
leaning far right person is the person who perpetrated this crime. Now,
those same people will tell you, oh, we must be
(01:05):
very measured and slow to come to conclusions about motives.
I will grant you that, right, Like, there's an Okham's
raiser here where if someone's killing Charlie Kirk, I think
we can guess what that person's political leanings and motives
might be. But there are assassinations that happen that are
just a crazy person. Jared Laffner shooting Gabby Gifford's is one.
(01:26):
Hinckley shooting Reagan is one. These were not politically motivated,
but they are assassination attempts.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
In this case, we now have evidence that it was
not some far right leaning person or someone who agreed
super hard with Charlie Kirk. It was, in fact a
left leaning young man in a relationship with a trans
boyfriend or somebody who was in the process of transitioning.
We have texts between the two of them released by
(01:54):
law enforcement to that effect, saying I did it because
I couldn't take his hate. Some hate you can't negotiate
out of.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, so he was pretty clear there.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I'll say that you know, this lie that it was
somebody on the right that did this is effective. There
was a y goov survey released where the question was,
as far as you know, is the person who shot
Charliekirk dot dot dot question mark a Democrat twenty one percent,
(02:29):
a Republican twenty four percent, not sure? Was forty percent,
but more people think the person who shot Charlie Kirk
was a Republican than think he was a Democrat.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
That's a problem, and.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's on purpose. It's on purpose.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
It's clear that the media is not just not doing
its job of educating the public letting people know what
really happened, but they're covering up what really happened. They're
lying about what really happened, and it matters.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I think I've written before, and I think it might
have been into discussion that when there is left wing violence,
that's very very clear, they either erase it entirely so
they can move on, or they alchemize it into right
wing violence. Right, So this is a great example of
them sort of just turning it into right wing violence
when there is no evidence of that. And by the way,
(03:20):
I would like to shout out Will Stancil, who is
a a very left leaning writer who is over on
Blue Sky fighting the good fight, to say.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Guys holding back the horns.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's like to say, guys, you have fooled yourself into
believing this thing that's not real. There is zero evidence
that this person is a groper, and there is significant
evidence that he is a left leaning person who was
radicalized into shooting someone for his beliefs. That's quite clear,
So shout out to him for that. Jimmy Kimmel, on
(03:52):
the other hand, really taken the first theory and running
with it. Here he is on late night TV It's.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
New Lows over the weekend with the Magga Gang desperately
trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as
anything other than one of them and do everything they
can to score political points from it. In between the
finger pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House
flew the flags at half staff, which got some criticism,
but on a human level, you can see how hard
(04:20):
the President is taking this a adults on the lock.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Of your friend Charlie Kirk, Sir personally, how are you
holding up for the last day and a half, sirve.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I think very good. And by the way, right there
you see all the trucks.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
They just started construction.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Of the new ball room for the White House, which.
Speaker 6 (04:37):
Is something they've been trying to get.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
As you know, for about one hundred and fifty years,
and it's going to be a beauty. Yes, he's at
the fourth stage of grief. Construction, the demolition.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Construction.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
This is not how an adult griefs the murderer of
somebody called a friend. This is how a four year
old mourns a goldfish.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Okay, the right's response, or was the new low the
murdering of a political opponent for speaking on a campus?
Because I think that was the low.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
If you want to talk a new new low, it's
the left pretending it was the right, Jimmy Kimmel pretending
it was maga.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I mean, what is the argument here that this.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Guy just loved Charlie Kirk so much he wanted to
kill him, Like, is that really what we're going with?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Like he killed them well, and some of the arguments
from the left are that he engraved things on the
bullets to set up the left. Randy Weingarten, head of
the Teacher's Union and famously democratically aligned national figure who
gets to write their policies for them, she put out
like the false flag narrative in detail from some a poster.
(05:50):
Yeah yeah, she was like, let me amplify this to everyone,
and someone read this. Some of you read this as
a false flag. So I'm going to take it down. Know,
we just read what you posted.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah about your post seracy theories.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
She's all about it.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
During COVID she said that Ron DeSantis was hiding COVID deaths.
I mean, she's often at the at the forefront of that.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
But yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It makes no sense, and it's so disingenuous. And again,
what's the most unfortunate about it is that it's working.
And I think if you're getting your news from mainstream media,
which is a crazy thing to do.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
In twenty twenty five, double check it, double check it.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Friends, it isn't you know without question that they could
easily lie to you, and a lot of them are
doing just that.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I wanted to add Kaitlin Collins here, she was interviewing
Ted Cruz and he was saying, you know, the motive
is clearly what the motive is, which the law enforcement
is doing a press conference and informing us of in
texts that they have released. The man is alive, by
the way, he will continue to talk to law enforcement. Yeah,
thereby disproving this nonsense. And Caitlin Collins would not back
(07:07):
down from the idea that there is no motive established
that you know that what those texts are different from
establishing a motive Senator, Senator. There are lots of instances
of political violence, and she name checked Melissa Hortman, who's
terrible murder in Minnesota happened earlier this year. Again, like
(07:28):
Hinckley and Reagan, not politically motivated, this was a guy
who thought Waltz was telling him to murder a member
of the Minnesota House or Senate, like, this is not
the same thing. She also mentioned Pelosi's husband, again not
politically motivated. A weird incident, but not politically motivated. And third,
(07:50):
she mentioned in the phrase and the phrasing was a
tax on Democrats. She mentioned the assassination at on Brett Kavanaugh.
So magically, yet another thing has been alchemized somehow into
our fault being shot.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, a lot of people are also picking up the
Josh Shapiro having his house spurned down, also a leftist,
also a three Palestine leftists. So this is why it's
kind of tough even today to be a conservative because
the mainstream media, once it gets going, it's very hard
to stop the narrative. And I think we're going to
(08:30):
do our best, but if you're hearing that this is
a conservative who shot Charlie Kirk, because they just you know,
he just loved the way he magot and he wanted
a mago with.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Him, and he wanted to kill him.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
That makes no sense at all.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
On the right there is some of this where some
real lunatics are saying that Israel killed Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Again, why why would they kill somebody who was such
a huge supporter.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Why wouldn't they Again, nobody's suggesting that anybody should die
for their beliefs, But why would they go after somebody
who loved them as opposed to all the people who
hate them?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
That why are all those people safe?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
That is a mystery, Like, that's the thing. None of
this passes the smell test. Let me also mention that
Nera Tanden Democratic operative who was on a CNN panel,
was talking with a young conservative woman, Brianna Lyman, who
did a great job, and Brianna mentioned, Hey, there are
three assassination investigations slash trials happening right now. Luigi Mangioni,
(09:35):
Ryan Ralph and Tyler Robinson. What do all three of
those have in common? They were political assassinations and assassination
attempts by the left, and Neira Tanden laughed. This young
woman was saying, we have to worry about this. My
young friends who speak on campusers are the ones who
have to worry about this. Near Tanna laughed at her
(09:56):
and said, there's a lot of trials for political violence
going on. Ca come up with any off the top
of her. She can't come up with any. But they
won't even let you have your mourning. They won't let
you have your fear. They won't legitimize any of it.
And the one person who's going above and beyond will
(10:16):
stancl We already named check as reclined going above and
beyond to say not only was Charlie Kirk doing this
the right way, I will encourage more of it, and
I will have people like Charlie and people living out
his legacy on my show to engage with them. And
he is getting dreamed for it.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I would say that, you know, I'm pleased that those
two are doing it.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
They're a surprising duo for this.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
But you know, when the right needs self policing, there
are a lot of people on the right willing to
do it. It wouldn't be just two, it would be
multitude of people writing. I think piece is about this
is not who we are, and I'd love to see
the left step up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
A really good example of that was yesterday when Pam
Bondi stepped in it twice by totally messing up the
idea of the First Amendment and hate speech, and the
entire right came down on her and Trump up to
and including a bunch of people saying maybe she should
get fired for this. I mean, like we do the
thing that is the thing, that is something we can do,
(11:21):
and some argue we do it too often. But in
this case, I do think she was really wrong about this.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Totally agree.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
More coming up on normally, but before that, I want
to talk to you about something that's close to both
carols in my hearts. It was nearly two years ago
that terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and
took two hundred and fifty hostages. Today, it seems as
if the cries of the dead and dying have been
drowned out by shouts of anti Semitic hatred, and the
most brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust has
(11:47):
been forgotten in some quarters. Yet, as the world looks away,
a light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of
love and support for the people of Israel called Flags
of Fellowship, and I know some of you will want
to get involved. It's organ by the International Fellowship of
Christians and Jews, and on October fifth, just a few
weeks away, millions across America were prayerfully planted an Israeli
(12:08):
flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of October seventh,
twenty twenty three and their grieving families. And now you
can be a part of it as well. To get
more information about how you can join the Flags of
Fellowship movement, visit the Fellowship online at IFCJ dot org.
That's IFCJ dot org.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
We'll be right back with more normally.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Welcome back to normally where we're going to be getting
into how the left has been conducting itself after the
assassination of Charlie Kirk. And I will for one say
not well, not well with the behavior since his murder.
What do you say, Mary Katherine?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Look, the issue is again, I think if it were
me right and this happened the other way around, I
would be doing everything I could because once someone is
more for their beliefs. It's not enough just to be
like that was bad, right. You have to make sure
that the people who are in Charlie's position, or whoever
the analog is on the left feel free to speak.
(13:11):
You have to go above and beyond to say I
want to make sure you are safe, right, I want
to make sure you have space to make your arguments.
And the left is so far from that. It is
all the way around to making fun of us or
celebrating the murders. That's how far off they are from it.
(13:32):
And then they will do the other thing, which is
deny that any of the bad behavior is happening.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
It's infuriating, it really is. You know, look, a lot
of people have said a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Of stupid things.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I really haven't highlighted most of them. But there was
a video that libs of TikTok posted yesterday.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
That really affected me. It was a guy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
They were holding a vigil and this guy and his
friends were coming in and like tapping their necks and
you know, imitating Charlie.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Having to die.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, and it really really pissed me off, and I
tweeted about it, like I'm supposed to be hoped that
this guy's life isn't ruined.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What am I supposed to want him to be? My dentist,
my kid's teacher. Be serious.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
A lot of people are saying that we should have
some grace. What if this person apologizes? You know, I
think this person should apologize. I think that that's what
should happen. It was at Texas State University. Apparently the
student has been expelled. I have a real hard time
feeling sorry for him. I have a real hard time
and I just, you know, sorry. I'll just say one thing.
(14:34):
I have a column in you know, Wednesday's New York
Post about how Democrats should step up and say something,
and a line that got cut I think for space was,
you know, the idea that we would work with people
who have ideas like this. I get we shouldn't be
blanket firing. I get people say dumb stuff, but like,
(14:55):
what if you say something they disagree.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
With at lunch, like what happened?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
What are they going to do to you? Like what
if they wouldn't murder you? What if they would just
beat you up after work? It's not crazy that they
think that violence is the answer to words that they
don't like.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
That you're going to have to watch what.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
You say, and that's the society that none of us
should want.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
To live in.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I would also add that that student, if you are
told that that student was merely expelled for his views,
he also trampled things at that event, spit and used
a racial slur, apparently violating several of the school's rules,
and so that you know, it was a little bit
more than just saying things or pantomiming gross things. And yeah,
(15:37):
I think there's this thing where to the left, and
I think it's particularly notable here in the trans community.
Especially mis gendering is an act of violence that is
worthy of all sorts of punishment, the most punishment, whereas
actually wishing violence upon someone and celebrating violence for a
(16:00):
disagreement is not even close. Toupun amazing, right, yeah, really, really,
that's amazing. And look, I do think there's also an
issue of, just as you point out, emotional self control
with these folks, like there was a whole group of
people outside of Luigi Mangioni's trial. First of all, you're
(16:21):
spending your day outside of Luigi Mangioni's trial of the
one of the charges was dropped, a terrorism charge. I
think he still would be facing stiff charges regardless. The
people outside allegedly sort of normal people wearing Luigi hats, which,
by the way, is a smear to Luigi and Mario's
(16:41):
the good the good character of Mario and Luigi's plumbing business.
But they're out there wearing the Luigi hats and they
all cheer. And you're telling me that I need to
be happy to work with the people who sheer actual murderers.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And I think that's an emotional regulation sewer that I'm
not going near.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Right, and the idea of that, like he didn't like
what insurance companies, how insurance companies treat people, so he
got to just kill a random ceo, Like can we
just kill people that we don't approve of what job
they do? I mean, this is where you are now,
and this is what you're defending. And again I so
in my column, I you know, I really do think
(17:23):
that democrats owe it to our society to bring that
temperature down. Recognize that this is on your side. This
is happening only on the left. I'm not saying the
right is perfect. Lots of problems on the right, but
this is celeborting.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, this is on the left.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I just don't see this on the right. I'm going
to crib a point from my good friend Michael moynihan,
who he's You can get out of the morass of
arguing about who did this, for what reason? Who does
and counting them up. You know how you know it's
a left problem. You know it's a left problem because
the left repeatedly valorizes and institutionally rewards actual, literal, convicted
(18:06):
domestic terrorists and murderers by making them college professors. Yep,
they have jobs in academia because and they're not repentant.
Bill Airs and Bernadine Dorn are not are not repentant
for having tried to blow up a rotzy dance filled
with active duty military in a dance hall. Yeah, Kathy
(18:31):
bud On or however you say her last name is
not like she killed a Brinks truck driver and was
part of this conspiracy that killed a Brinks truck driver.
Innocent guy Angela Davis, weapons used in several murders, like
served time for a felony. These protect people. These are
people who you have elevated and you tell young people
(18:55):
on campus that they are people worth listening to. It's
not even rare. They're all over the place.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It's also like they can't criticize these protesters and these
people who are celebrating the murder because they will have
to first admit that they exist, and they don't seem
like they're willing.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
To do that.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
We're gonna play a clip from Scott Jennings, who just
is does really heroic work at CNN taking on the
batshit crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Let's roll the clip.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Everybody here acknowledges that there have been thousands upon thousands
of people, ordinary people, who have taken to social media
to celebrate this.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yes or no, I don't know about that.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Second. I just think we should just there's we got
to be factual about this, right. I don't think you
know the scope. I don't know the scope, but I
do think that we have to distinguish between random people
in the world and something that is a dominant issue
because the.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Person who a person in the world. You know, here's
the thing that's the danger.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
You dismissed the random people the world. They have access.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
We assassinations in hate this country. There have been political
assassinations in this country before. Scott, wouldn't you agree, and
they're all comprehensible. And in this country, do you believe
that in those political assassinations in the sixties and the
seventies and the eighties assassination attempts, that there were no
Americans who cheered that on. I think the question anything,
the question is whether it's gilla, whether or not it happens.
(20:24):
The question is whether or not we need to place
that at the very center of our political world right
now and categorize half the people in the country according
to those random people that we now just happened to
see because.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Of the she's working so hard. It's to depend people
who celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. She's working so hard.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
She's gone back to the is to say, I'm sure
there are people that celebrated here too. We just didn't
find out about it because of the internet, which is
the only thing they've put it on the Internet.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yes, they've broadcast that she's working so hard. If I
were in that position, by the way, and it were flipped,
I'm just going to use me as the example because
I do the same job that these folks do. And
you brought up that people on the right had celebrated
the death of someone killed for their beliefs. You know
what I would do, I'd be like, that's the most
(21:19):
horrific thing I've seen this. Yeah, I condemn it in
the strongest possible terms. I do not want to be
associated with it in any way, shape or form. I
think it exists in too many places. Just do the thing,
Just do the decent easy Paul right, and they can't
do it.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
There was a yugo of poll a few days ago
that found thirty four percent of liberal or very liberal
people say it's acceptable to be happy about a public
figure's death. Only seven percent of conservatives or very conservative
people agree.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sorry, that is.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
A widespread hues.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Don't say that this is something normal that oh, you know,
in the eighties people also felt like this. These people
posted it on the Internet for everybody to see.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
When she brings up assassinations of other decades, also like
Kennedy was assassinated by a COMMI right who didn't like
that he was an anti COMMI.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, continues to be leftists.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Well, and we have been gas lit about that for decades,
saying that it was Dallas's right wing stew that created
this defected to the USSR commie shooter, which wasn't true.
R FK killed by a Palestinian activist. I mean, it's
just can we, just as she requests, deal in facts? Yeah,
(22:38):
can we deal in facts?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But they don't.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
They just don't. And the thing is the left just
gets to say whatever they want. Could they could say, oh,
what are you talking about? There have not been thousands
of people on the internet celebrating the death.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
What do you even say?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Or Randy Weingarten continues to use words like fascists to
describe people that she disagrees with, and that's supposed to
some how, you know, be okay.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It just she's at that. This week, she's doing her
book tour about how teachers are the antidote to fascism.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah. I guess people who don't remember four years ago
will maybe believe that because I remember her fascist shutting
down of schools and then and then shutting down the
opinions of anybody who disagreed with her, and working with
the media to do it, you know, and the government obviously,
but with the media, they helped her, and they made
(23:34):
sure that people were misinformed about what was actually going on,
so that Randy Winegarden could get her.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Way, yes, you know, or left, she's going to go
all around the country and be like the fascists who
live in this country are the problem, and they're all
just gonna talk about it all day long. Gleefully, let's
take a.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Short break and we'll be right back on normally talking
about how to talk to your kids about this.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
We are back on normally, and I'm actually gonna toss
around some ideas ask for some advice, because I don't
usually run into the issue of not knowing how to
talk to my kids about something. Often I feel pretty
confident about what I can take a pass on and
it's too grown up for them, or things that we
need to address and that kind of thing. But I
(24:22):
find that my values are colliding here because I want
my kids to know the importance of speech, the importance
of someone like Charlie. They were too young to really
watch him or know who he was. They don't do
a lot of internet access, but they are old enough
to be scared for me, and they are going to
clock right away that Charlie's job was Mom's job, and
(24:43):
that when I travel to do it, you know, it's
not that it's not that satisfying to be like, it's
statistically improbable that doing my job. I don't know how
deep to go with this with them, but I think
it's really important that they understand it also.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And it's also the but even if you don't do
what we do, we tell our kids to stand up
for their opinions, to say what they really think, to
be fearless in their lives, to be brave. And here
with somebody who was fearless. And here's somebody who was brave.
And here's somebody who was saying what he really thought
and living his faith and doing all the things that
we tell our kids to do, and he was killed
(25:21):
for it.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It's very, very hard.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I think also, as your kids get older, they're going
to hear about things you know before you get a
chance to fill it in. So like what you're saying
to them now lays the basis for later, and it's
a really tough call. I don't know. I think that
I know you're doing a great job, and I think
that having an open line of communication with your kids
(25:44):
where they could tell you, Mom, i'm afraid for you,
is the best result.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
It's what you want.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
You want them to be able to tell you their
fears and what they're really thinking about.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
No, that's a fair point. We were kind of in
this little bubble of being on a family trip when
this happened, as you guys were as well, and so
I didn't broach it then, but I have broached it
lightly since, and I probably do need to have like
a you know, like a sit down with them where
they could toss around some ideas about it, because they're
old enough to metabolize it. They're old enough to think
(26:19):
about it, and they're old enough to think about, you know,
and to hear about why speech is important, why standing
up for yourself is important, Like it's actually more important
that I go do my job, yeah than it was
lasting exactly. Since this is a hard subject, I want
to uplift us with Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins
talking to Bill Maher about parenthood. And I also saw
a clip from Bob Odenkirk of Better Call Saul and
(26:42):
Breaking Bad Fame talking about parenthood recently too, and he
said the great thing about parenting young children is that
you never have to wonder what your purpose is because
your purpose is right in front of you all the time.
And she said he was actually jealous of people who
have young kids in their house because they don't have
to worry about their own vanity and their ambitions and there,
which is like such a nice frame if you're living
(27:04):
in it feels like hmmm, sy wethink it. But here's
here's Billy Corgan talking about parenthood in a beautiful way.
And I'm loving this trend. I hope we can see
more of it.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I had a million dollars by the time I was
twenty four years old. Okay. A year before that, I
was making twelve thousand dollars a year working at a
record store, and I was broke. So I'm a million
you know. I mean, we grew up in a time
where millionaire. These days millionaires not doesn't mean as much.
But the word millionaire still meant something in my brain
when I was twenty years old. So I have a
million dollars when I'm twenty four years old. By the
(27:34):
time I'm twenty six, I'm TV Platinum Records, Sarahight Live Cover,
Rolling Stone. I mean I basically did by my mid twenties,
like most of the checklists.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
All the bucks, okay, and I.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Never felt this sense of satisfaction about it, and I
couldn't quite understand why because everybody around me is like,
this is fucking incredible, and I was like, it is
and it isn't okay. So to answer your question, the
problem with all of it is transactional because no matter
how many hit songs you write, it's always what about
the next one. No matter how many records you're sold,
(28:09):
there's always somebody's going to sell more records than you.
No matter how good you are, there's always somebody telling
you writing online that you're the worst thing that ever happened.
There was always like an asterisk or a qualifier. And
I mean even my band at times was transactional with me.
I mean I would write these massive songs and they
were kind of like they didn't give a shit. It
(28:30):
was weird. W Well, that could send a band psychology
and we could talk about it if you want. But
just to finish the little spiel, only unconditional love in
some facet of your life gives you the proper perspective
to appreciate what is great about transactional things, but allows
you to see them for what they are, which is transactional.
(28:50):
There's no val hall at the top of Rock Mountain.
There isn't and I've been there multiple times. So when
I stand in front of sixty five thousand people, in
my hierarchical mind, my family is still above that.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Right Sure.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
I tell my kids all the time, and there's still
little kids, and hopefully it'll endure in their brain.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
That was so nice, and like listen to people like him.
I think Scotti Scheffler the golfer, was another one who
recently said almost exactly this, So that I can win
every tournament and it's done by the next week, right,
the things that matter are my kids and my wife.
He has one kid, My kid, and my wife. And
it's interesting to hear people who have hit that pinnacle
(29:33):
of success say that this is still the thing that
I love, really really matters.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
I love it and just to bring it back around.
That's what Charlie would say as well. Well, thanks for
joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and
you could subscribe anywhere.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Get in touch with us at Normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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