November 4, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz dive into the shifting dynamics of the Republican Party ahead of Election Day. They unpack how former President Obama continues to shape Democratic strategies, discuss the controversies surrounding Tucker Carlson, and explore why standing up for public figures like Erika Kirk matters in today’s polarized media climate. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I didn't hear back on normally the show with normal,
which takes for when the news gets weird.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I am Mary Catherine Haham, and I'm Carol Markowitz. Mary Catherine.
Is Halloween your favorite holiday?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
It's not my favorite holiday, but it's second to Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Second to Christmas? That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Yeah, it's like very close.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You really bring it.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I try.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I mean over the years, your costume is just incredible.
I didn't know who you were this last one, but
a lot of people were very impressed with you after
I posted the picture of us together on my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Well, I'm so glad, Yes we were. For those who
didn't see the picture, we'll put it on our socials.
But we were two of the characters from The Great
British Baking Show, So Prue and Noel my husband and I.
The thing is, I inexplicably found a man who is
very into the same things I'm into. So that was
like one of the reasons we got together is when
(00:55):
we first started dating, I was like, wait, you want
to put together a costume because I want to put
together Let's do it together.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
So, mister giant shoulders in the gym all the time
is like, yes, I will nitpicked your costume for accuracy.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's a cuss play.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Dude, he's so awesome. I mean, I have only met
your husband a few times, but I just every time
he's around, he is so much fun and you guys
are just fantastic together.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
He's a good dude. He's a good dude. So yeah,
well we pulled it off. The kids kind of freelanced
this year, so I let them do their own thing.
And my four year old, I don't know if I mentioned,
was poop Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
She was poop yep.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
She picked it and she wanted it, and you guys
are awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
We made it happen. So anyway, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, Halloween is over. I felt like, even though it
was only Friday, went on through the weekend. I feel
like everybody was just drunk and high on chocolate. I
picked up all the wrappers around my house on Saturday
and then did it all again on Sunday. I don't
know where they blew in from, but.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, it's well.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
My husband is also he's like a sweetz aholic. We
don't really keep stuff in the house in general, so
when Halloween hits, like you got he handed out the
candy a couple of years in a row, and I
would come back to the house and be like, what's
wrong with you?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
And he had just oh deed.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And for the child, one for me, handful for the kids.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
We don't leave them along with it.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So well, y well, we're on to the next holiday,
which of course is election day.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We are recording it the day before election day. This
will be released on election Day across the country. And
it's not looking very good.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
But I will say, and I said this on the show,
I think last episode or two episodes ago, if it's
even close, I think Republicans should be happy about that.
It is tough times out there for Republicans in these
particular races. Two are in deep blue New Jersey and
New York City, very deep blue. One is in a
purply angry state that's mad about the shutdown right now,
(02:58):
which is of course home state of Virginia. These are
not going to be easy for Republicans.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
No, and I'm getting wildly conflicting messages about early voting
and turnout that I'm trying to reconcile with each other. Look,
I will say that even though it is an uphill
battle in Virginia. Republicans are making a good showing. Yeah,
certainly a respectable showing in the early voting totals compared
to other years. Youngkin's great contribution to the Virginia GOP.
(03:28):
Among many other things, He's been a very good governor,
but is to have increased the party's capabilities when it
comes to getting people out to vote when it comes
to running up totals in rural areas, which had not
been done well previous to that, particularly trying to answer
the urban surges during the Obama years. So I do
think I saw somebody say that in all the polling
(03:51):
that shows, obviously we'd like the AG race to turn
out a Republican win, just to keep the guy who
wants me and my children dead off of out public office, who,
by the way, was on stage at the Obama rally.
Right Obama was like, we should be able to disagree
without disrespecting each other, and then there's mister kill everybody.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Anyway, we'd like that to be a win.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I saw a stat that was encouraging that is, like,
if span Berger, who is the top of the ticket,
doesn't win by eleven plus, the AG race goes Republican,
she can't drag him across the line.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
So if we could keep it.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Dight, keep it dight? Is she pulling eleven plus? I
feel like everything I've seen has her seven or eight.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, it's it's more like kissing double digits, but not
quite there.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Okay, all right, Virginia, you know what to do New
York City. I just have so many friends who are
so hopeful that Cuomo was going to pull it out,
And I mean maybe every time, you know, I can't
like you. I'm parsing these early vote totals, like, oh, look,
the Hasidic Jewish communities have really come out in the
early voting days. But like, I don't know that city's
(05:00):
super blue. I think a lot of people walk into
the booth and vote either Republican or Democrat. And Cuomo
is running on the third party line, Like we have
to like he's also my mom, and be like, you
can't go in and vote Republican. You have to vote.
You have to find Andrew Como on his weird third
party line.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
That's part of it.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
His ballot placement is very bad. He's stuck in the
middle of a second row. Yeah, I should also note
that for Republicans, and this is something that again Youngkin
has worked on correcting for but four Republicans because of
the realignment of the kind of voters Republicans get.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Now, Republicans have.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Lower propensity voters, which means they are less likely to
come out in an off year election. The suburban moms
are the put it on your calendar, do all the
things for make sure that we show up every single
time there's a vote.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Young male new voters.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Not as likely to be showing up every time. So
that is a sort of an evolution in the party
that does cause problem. And these off your elections if
you're not working really hard to get people out, and
credit to Yankin and Scott Pressler and others who.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Do the hard work on the ground to make that happen.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Absolutely Republicans need to like put a voting booth in
the toilet paper aisle where you buy like the single
pack of toilet paper that single men go for, like
because again suburban moms ordering it on Amazon, getting like
a four month pack, you.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Know, and then like the single heat up meals like
those are that's this is ours, this is our area.
I should note also just for y'all's education. That California
is of course considering Proposition fifty. That's their their their
constitutional amendment to change the way that they do redistricting
so that they can have more democratic seats. Voters in
(06:46):
Texas will decide whether to amend the constitution to say
that persons who are not citizens of the United States
cannot vote in Texas. I'm sure the Libs find this
very controversial. In Maine, they're doing some voting changes. There's
a gun law question on Maine's ballot. Parental rights in Texas,
an amendment that would affirm that parents are the primary
decision makers for their children and a couple, like environmental
(07:06):
things other places, but those are the Nothing is dominating
the ballot measures this year. There's no big theme like
there's in the past. It's been abortion related stuff, right
this year, not a big theme.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I think it's just do hate Donald Trump. If so,
come vote for the Democrats. That's that's where they are
right now, which is not a bad place to be
because a lot of these people do hate Donald Trump
and want to send a message. So there will be
that message. I think I mentioned in a previous episode
that Miami is having an election and a I don't
(07:37):
want to call her far left because it does dilute
the term because she's not an AOC, she's not his
arm I'm Donnie. But for Florida, she's pretty left. Is
leading in the polls, and there's like a mayoral race.
It's a mayoral race. It's different than New York City
because Miami has like six mayors and it's not just
you know, she's going to run like three neighborhoods basically
(07:58):
if she wins, but it's still important. But there's like
ten candidates running and one of them is endorsed by
Ron DeSantis. It looks like this woman, Eileen versus I
believe his name is Gonzales are going to be in
a runoff together. And then at that point it's also
non part is an election. I should know. They're not
(08:18):
running on party lines, so it's different. But again, if
a liberal or a leftist or whatever somewhere between wins
mayor of Miami, that does kind of slow down Republican
momentum going into the midterms. It's a small, nothing race,
but it sends a message that the Democrats, you know,
who have been massively unpopular in the last year. Maybe
(08:41):
are mounting a little bit of a comeback.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, we shall see.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm interested in what do you think of Obama showing
up at the end in New Jersey?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
So funny he went to New Jersey too, right?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah he did? Yeah, you know, like you said, his
whole like we have to be better, do each other thing.
Like I see him as the most divisive president. He
is the one who I feel like split us apart
in a way that we haven't been able to recover from.
It wasn't George W. Bush. It was not George W.
Bush who did that. It was Barack Obama. I don't know.
I guess it means that they think it's closer. But
(09:12):
if it's not close, is he not going to come?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
The thing about him is it's such a myth that
he has coattails, right he is. He is an important
figure and then a party, but he has never really
brought people across the line in the way that they
sort of pretend he does when they're like we're bringing
in the big guns and it's like okay.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
But while he was in office, you guys.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Lost thousands lots of things, thousands.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Of seats where he was speaking, and then I think
for me, you know, I've always frequently seen through Obama's
rhetoric about how we should all.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Be good to each other.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
But standing on the stage and giving that speel the
same stage that the Ages nominee who wants to shoot
the Speaker of the House and Replican Speaker of the
House in Virginia.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Okay, enough enough, sir. Yeah, I like that. It means
that they are nervous.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
It's closer, right, Yeah, It's closer than they want it
to be, which again.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Would be huge. All of these races matter obviously for
the people living in those places, but on a national level,
what these races matter for really is to see where
the midterms are headed. And I think they'll give us
a little bit of a preview. Again, it's probably going
to be a Democratic sweep, but it has to be
a democratic sweep. If it's not a Democratic sweep, Democrats
(10:34):
in a world of hurt going into the midterms. Again,
if it's close, that that's very good for Republicans.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Can I also say too, by the way, when some
seiarus has been doing the work on the ground, she's
been trying to take advantage of all these insane Northern
Virginia school board policies which are just awful. There's tons
of controversies going on. Are Soros funded prosecutor in my
county that just lets people out willy nilly all of
that stuff?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Didn't do that I would.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I would like to say. I read a New Yorker
piece that was like, Abigail Spenberger thinks that Democrats need
to listen more, and it's like, Okay, again, she's posing
as the normy savior, and I think that if she wins,
it's not by virtue of being normy, unless by being
normy you just mean she's not mom Dannie.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Like that's gonna be a low bar that a lot
of Democrats are going to celebrate clearing.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, because I don't think she actually wants to listen.
She hasn't moderated on gender issues, She hasn't been willing
to speak up about any of these controversies, things that
are again eighty twenty issues. She just keeps her mouth shut.
She wants the state to be a sanctuary state at
some level, she's like, doesn't want to cut that off.
(11:48):
And then she was asked this weekend if she would
work with Trump on like job development and making sure
that Virginas have jobs.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Here's her answer to that.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You position yourself as a consensus builder, someone who works
across the aisle.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Would you work with President Trump on areas like job creation?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I think that you know you don't work with the
arsonist who burns down the house to rebuild it, and
in this particular case, on the individual who's responsible for
an absolute attack on the federal workforce is not the
right person to help rebuild our economy.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Are you going to work with Donald Trump? No? No,
definitely not.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
And a lot of her sort of mythos.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
She did win in a swing district in Virginia that
had a lot of rural area in it, But I
have been surprised how unimpressive she is on the trail
at moments like this. And her whole claim to fame
is that in twenty twenty, in a private discussion with Democrats,
she said, like, we need to lean away from this
defund the police craziness. Yeah, good point, Representative Spanburger. That
(12:54):
was a leaked conversation. She didn't say that all. I
just think her credits and the normy area are not
as strong as people will suggest they are.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's funny because it's usually for Democrats. It's like the
private conversations are further to the left. She has to
pretend to be more of a leftist than she is
to get elected. That's great, that's great.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Anyway, we will cure it on those results when we
have them.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, we'll be right back with more on normally. We
are back on normally, with a little infighting on the right,
although I don't love the way that sounds because I
don't consider some of the people involved to be on
the right anymore or ever. Really, last episode, we talked
(13:43):
about Tucker Carlson having white supremacist Nick Fuentes. I don't
even know what to call him, white supremacist, just racist,
anti semitic, very misogynistic, just a gross human on his show.
He softballed Tucker, gave him softball questions and really kind
of tried to normalize fuents This story would have maybe
(14:05):
started to die down. I mean, how long can we
talk about a podcaster having another podcaster on his show.
Tucker's been heading in a really dark direction. As I
like to say, I was a big fan of Tucker
when he was a conservative. I don't really see any
conservative values from him anymore. He makes fun of Trump
administration accomplishments like no boys in girls' sports, or he
(14:28):
opposed the strike on Iran, which listen, I get it,
you could oppose, but he thinks there was a failure,
and I'm sorry. It just there's no way you could
see it like that. The new news that happened is
the Heritage Foundation, which is a storied conservative organization, has
into this debate. This story.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, and Heritage, by the way, sort of got it
is known best or it's sort of its origin story
was that a couple of conservatives were like, we need
something that actually creates Paulo's so that if there's someone
ever elected who's conservative while we're in the wilderness in
the late seventies, we could be able to hand them something.
And that something was a lot of the architecture for
(15:11):
Reagan's term. Not that Reagan of course didn't have his
own ideas, but there was a blueprint handed out that
was like called the Mandate for Leadership controversially renamed Project
twenty twenty five from the very boring version that they
used to call it. So Mandate for Leadership was like
sort of like an underpinning of Reagan's years, and so
(15:32):
that has been the jumping off point for the rest
of Heritage history. But Heritage has undergone evolution as the
Republican Party and the Conservative movement has undergone evolution, and
this seems like an evolution I'm not excited about.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah. So, Kevin Roberts is the current president of Heritage
and Heritage Action, and I really like him. I am
not in any way anti Kevin Roberts. I thought he
was doing a fantastic job at Heritage. I get the
criticisms of Project twenty twenty five, but I thought a
lot of it was really smart. It's crazy to me
(16:08):
that we're having this conversation about Kevin Roberts because I
always saw him as such a kind of not middle
of the road. That's the wrong term. Very again, maybe normal,
maybe normal is the way to go here. I saw
him as a normal guy. So what he did on
Friday is he put out a video and he tweeted,
I'm sorry it wasn't Friday, it was Thursday. He said.
(16:29):
There's been speculation that Heritage is distancing itself from Tucker
Carlson over the past twenty four hours. I want to
put that to rest right now here are my thoughts,
and he just said such inflammatory things. Let's roll a
clip that I think was particularly inflammatory.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
We will always defend America, and we will always defend
our friends against the slander of bad actors who serve
someone else's agenda. That includes Tucker Carlson, who remains and
as I have said before, always will be a close
friend of the Heritage Foundation. The venomous coalition attacking him
are sewing division. Their attempt to cancel him will fail.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
The venomous coalition who serves somebody else's interests. It's a
really dark kind of phrasing, and I think a lot
of people were shocked at it. The thing is and
what I've loved so much about being a conservative always,
but really in the last week when this bubbled up,
when Fentis went on Tucker's show, it was near unanimous
(17:35):
condemnation from conservatives. Of course, there are some who are like,
you know, let's hear the crazy white supremacists who hated
Charlie Kirk and tried to get people to not vote
for Donald Trump in this last election. Let's hear him out.
And I don't think the hearing him out is the problem.
So much as he went completely unchallenged by Tucker Carlston
(17:55):
because Tucker himself has gone down this terrible road where
he's obsessed with Jews and with Israel, and all of
his shows and all of his newsletters are only and
always about this. So for Kevin Roberts to get into
this and say we will stand by Tucker no matter
what he says was just a crazy thing to do.
(18:17):
And the backlash to this has been swift and I
just love to see it.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, And apparently what triggered this was someone took down
an internal web page or not an internal webpage but
not an important part of the website, but something that
referenced Carlson on the heritage website. And then there was
this like they felt the need to set the record
straight while all of us were setting the record straight
that like probably hosting right white nationalist is not a
great idea now important for the right also not just
(18:45):
the standing up on this, but I didn't see one
person call for Tucker to not have a play right right.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Zero people said that, or who was trying to cancel him.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Here people are saying that what they are saying is like, look,
I wouldn't make the decision to have Fintus on my show.
I don't think it's good to elevent like him. I
want my guardrails like way out here with a lot
of allowable speech.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
But like I'm not hosting that.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Okay, Yeah, how if I did this, I would ask
difficult questions.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
If someone wishes to host him, please grill him. And
I know you're smart enough to do it.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So it was to me an unforced error, but telling
that the head of Heritage Foundation felt the need to
stand up on this point, and he said, you know,
I find some of Foin's views abhorrent, but like we
don't sort of shut off discussion, and it's like, okay.
The other thing is Tucker's whole thing is saying the
(19:42):
rest of us are wrong about everything, right, right, if
indeed we are on the same side, which, as you
point out, it feels very much not like that, then
why is he not in trouble for coming at everybody else?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Exactly? It's only one side and this has been the point.
Also on the Tucker Finds interview, Tucker said that he
hates Christian Zionists, and again, Charlie Kirk was murdered not
even two months ago, and he was I think he
was the most famous Christian Zionist in the country. Like
I can't think of anybody bigger than Charlie Kirk on
(20:18):
Christian Zionism. But what is Tucker saying here, And it's
just it's mind boggling. Well, and the fact that he
can so often say, all these people on the right,
he hates this person, and he hates this person, and
he hates this person and he hates this person. And
that's not sowing divisions somehow that's a problem.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, and also to that point, let me commend Dana
lash who amazing, which is so great, who is a
conservative who has worked with heritage forever as many of
us have, right, and she went to them and said
to her contacts over there, like get him on the
show so that I can talk to him and ask
him what you guys are doing.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Because this is one of these things that can.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Feel very in the weeds, and it is right, this
is this is an online conversation has a movement conversation,
not a normy conversation.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
However, what happens in.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
These fights dictated what flows downstream eventually. So that's the
fight we're having Dana Lash was in the fight and
she had a question about exactly what were you were
saying for Kevin Roberts, and this was his response.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
What we're trying to do is eliminate that kind of
venom both directions.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Is it venomous to say that you hate Christian zionis?
Speaker 6 (21:26):
Well, of course it is. I mean, I've been really clear,
not just yesterday and today, but my entire career that
and Heritage certainly has in its entire existence, that those
kinds of things are just abhorrent. I was I said
that literally yesterday.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Because Tucker said those things, So that would be I mean,
is that not so?
Speaker 3 (21:47):
In division?
Speaker 6 (21:50):
It's certainly not helpful, but it doesn't mean that he
ought to be canceled because of it.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
In fact, that's not the question is not whether he
should be canceled. Is that so in division to say
things like that.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
Certainly, and a lot of our friend's minds.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
But the point that you didn't put that in your statement.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
Because the proximity or the context for the statement was
something very different. And that was, as we were talking
about a few minutes ago, all of the pressure that
Heritage was receiving to cancel Tucker, which is not we
wouldn't do that to you, We wouldn't do that to him.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
That's the question. He also seemed very surprised by many
of the things that she brought up that Tucker has said,
which led people to believe that he didn't write the video,
he didn't write the text for the video, and then
his chief of staff was moved to some other part
of Heritage Foundation and people like, oh, maybe that's who
wrote it. Again, you're right, this is so in the weeds.
(22:46):
But another defense of Tucker that I keep seeing online
is why are we wasting time talking about this? We
have real issues, we have a real fight with the left.
And again I say, take this up with Tucker Cross.
Why is he not talking about any of the issues
that we have with the left? Why is he constantly
constantly only going after people on the right, And why
(23:09):
is he constantly only talking about Israel, only talking about Jews,
making that the focal point of every single episode. It's
just there's something about that that is dark, and I
think that you can't ignore that and pretend that we're
the ones who keep talking about Tucker. No, he's the
one who keeps bringing the conversation back to this, And
(23:30):
I'll also say Tucker does these newsletters now, and the
newsletters are almost entirely about Israel or Jews. So on
today's newsletter, the headline is Trump threatens to defund Nigeria
if Christian killings continue. Now you would think Tucker Carlston,
self proclaimed Christian, would before this. He doesn't come off
(23:51):
as super four defunding Nigeria. In fact, guess what he
found a way to bring it back to He says, so,
how come Mark Levin would label him an anti Jewish
racist if he made the exact same statement about Israel.
Isn't that a weird double standard? This may be hard
for Levin and his ethno narcissist caucus to accept, but
criticism of their beloved country has nothing to do with Judaism,
(24:13):
just like Trump's statement on Nigeria is not an attack
on blacks. It's about putting America first. Christians are being slaughtered,
and this is what your argument is. It just there's
nothing conservative going on here.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Well, and I think you could deploy the same bandwidth
an attention argument against Roberts, who I think probably has
learned a lesson from this that maybe the one straight
to camera video you do in a week shouldn't be
about this. Yeah, right, it really That's what it signaled
to me, is like, oh, this is a very big
deal to him that he did this video. And I
(24:47):
think part of that, again, this is the struggle. Part
of that is because there is a young cohort of
right leaning young people that I think misc Some people
are thinking the only way to keep these people yes
in the movement is to host this guy. And I'm like, no, no, no,
(25:07):
perhaps we should host better people, right, and.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
This will argue about this guy.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, the vacuum left by Charlie Kirk is so damaging
because he was the model for that.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
You're absolutely right, all right. I'm going to end with
two white pills, as the kids say, and one of them,
actually tweets actually contain contains the phrase white pill. This
one's from Joel Berry. He says it's a major white pill,
which means a positive thing. That the Heritage Foundation gave
no enemies to the right a mainstream test drive this week,
and it blew up in their faces because the American
(25:41):
right still has a conscience and a moral compass. Praise
Praise Christ the King for small mercies, and I just
you know, I love that so much, because again I
wasn't sure how it was going to go. I wasn't
sure that the right was going to say absolutely not
not on our watch. Tucker is a very popular figure.
I've said it before, but he is very personable. I
(26:03):
really used to like him and care about him a lot.
I understand that impulse from other people, but he is
leading us down a dangerous path. The other tweet similar
to this is from Abe Greenwald. He says the right
responded to half a dozen Jew hating podcasters and one
think tank president with overwhelming and immediate condemnation. The left
encouraged two years of abject pro jihad support and terrorism
(26:27):
to thrive without ever putting its foot down. I'm so
glad we're not doing the same as the left has
done here well.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And I want to say also just in a general sense,
because of the generational change in views on Israel, which
may be recovered.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
At some points, but.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
The lasting victory of Israel from seven fronts during the
past two years, pretty again, good bye President Trump, really
important for moving forward if in fact the public.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Turn off the.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Changes in these coming generations. And you know, there can
be work to do about educating people about our only,
our only liberal democracy alley in the Middle East. It's
pretty important.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, all right, I'll end this. I am not worried
about Israel. I'm worried about America. When I hear the
Tuckers and the Fuentesses, I'm not like, oh God, Israel's
going to suffer because of this. I think America is
going to suffer because of this. Israel will be just fine.
Will we be just fine if we take their path?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I mean, you can look around at the left for
the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
You really can. Great. No, no good, all right, we'll
be right back with more on normally. We are back
on normally where Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow is getting some
really gross condemnation and we are here to say absolutely
(27:54):
not on our watch.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I told you guys, I was gonna be a widow
defense because it is a strange thing in particularly if
you're a public figure, that people really feel free to
speculate about you, to question your motives. I got this
after my husband died in twenty fifteen, or people would
just assume that I got jobs because no like it
(28:17):
is gross. It's a gross thing. It happens not infrequently.
This woman is now, I think, like fifty five days
from having watched her husband be murdered, and people are
watching her under a microscope, and I think some of
it is just like this is how this goes. Some
(28:37):
of it is she's too public and she's too powerful,
and there are people both on left and right who
do not like that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
But I got news for y'all. Her name's Kirk. She's
legally the inheritor of his legacy. She is now legally
the inheritor of the organization that he ran. That makes
perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
If you don't like a lady doing that, you might
get mad about it. But like the accusations of the
most recent one is somebody took a screenshot from a
hug she gave Vice President jd Vance and alleged this
is inappropriate. If you watch the video, you'll know why
they chose a screenshot because the video is like zero
point seven seconds.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
The hug is like hug moves, yeah, right. But the
desire is to plant these terrible seeds about this woman
who is like just trying to get through it. Guys,
and by the way, trying to box out forces that
are bad, trying to take over her husband's legacy.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
She's been forced to do.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
That, right. Absolutely. We mentioned in the last segment that
Nick Fuentess hated Charlie Kirk and the feeling was mutual.
Charlie Kirk thought Nick Fuentess was bringing some of the
absolute worst elements in the country out, And yeah, Erica
now needs to preserve TPUSA from that Fuentas wing and
finds frequently talks and brags about bringing down TPUSA. So
(30:00):
this is a woman who is not only preserving her family,
having to take care of her children who watched her husband,
as you said, be murdered right in front of her.
She's also somebody who has to protect this organization and
she's doing the best she can. I pray for her,
and we're absolutely not going to stand for any Erica
Kirk bashing.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, one last thought, Kyle Kulinski was perhaps among the
worst behaved. He is a liberal commentator married to Crystal Ball,
and he just went on a full day long AI
disgusting display attacking her for her fake grief for what
you know, alleging that she was in affairs with people.
It's so disgusting. It should be counterproductive for their movement
(30:40):
and anyone making this kind of accusation, and I hope
that it is. And he got a lot of flak
for it, but the fact that he kept posting it
is one of the things I dislike about the Internet,
which is like more clicks meant more money for him
for this disgusting stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's really terrible, and I saw people on the right
also engaging with it. Again, I think it's that same
point as Wing engaging with it and saying, you know,
she's not just appropriately. She needs to humble herself, she
needs to be more modest. I think she should do
whatever she wants to do, especially to get through this
incredibly difficult time. And we are rooting for you, Erica Kirk.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
We are indeed Widow Defense over here.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That's right, I'm back up. Well, thanks for joining us
on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can
subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with
us at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening,
and when things get weird, act normally
I didn't hear back on normally the show with normal,
which takes for when the news gets weird.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I am Mary Catherine Haham, and I'm Carol Markowitz. Mary Catherine.
Is Halloween your favorite holiday?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
It's not my favorite holiday, but it's second to Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Second to Christmas? That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Yeah, it's like very close.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You really bring it.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I try.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I mean over the years, your costume is just incredible.
I didn't know who you were this last one, but
a lot of people were very impressed with you after
I posted the picture of us together on my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Well, I'm so glad, Yes we were. For those who
didn't see the picture, we'll put it on our socials.
But we were two of the characters from The Great
British Baking Show, So Prue and Noel my husband and I.
The thing is, I inexplicably found a man who is
very into the same things I'm into. So that was
like one of the reasons we got together is when
(00:55):
we first started dating, I was like, wait, you want
to put together a costume because I want to put
together Let's do it together.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
So, mister giant shoulders in the gym all the time
is like, yes, I will nitpicked your costume for accuracy.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's a cuss play.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Dude, he's so awesome. I mean, I have only met
your husband a few times, but I just every time
he's around, he is so much fun and you guys
are just fantastic together.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
He's a good dude. He's a good dude. So yeah,
well we pulled it off. The kids kind of freelanced
this year, so I let them do their own thing.
And my four year old, I don't know if I mentioned,
was poop Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
She was poop yep.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
She picked it and she wanted it, and you guys
are awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
We made it happen. So anyway, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, Halloween is over. I felt like, even though it
was only Friday, went on through the weekend. I feel
like everybody was just drunk and high on chocolate. I
picked up all the wrappers around my house on Saturday
and then did it all again on Sunday. I don't
know where they blew in from, but.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, it's well.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
My husband is also he's like a sweetz aholic. We
don't really keep stuff in the house in general, so
when Halloween hits, like you got he handed out the
candy a couple of years in a row, and I
would come back to the house and be like, what's
wrong with you?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
And he had just oh deed.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And for the child, one for me, handful for the kids.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
We don't leave them along with it.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So well, y well, we're on to the next holiday,
which of course is election day.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We are recording it the day before election day. This
will be released on election Day across the country. And
it's not looking very good.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
It's not.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
But I will say, and I said this on the show,
I think last episode or two episodes ago, if it's
even close, I think Republicans should be happy about that.
It is tough times out there for Republicans in these
particular races. Two are in deep blue New Jersey and
New York City, very deep blue. One is in a
purply angry state that's mad about the shutdown right now,
(02:58):
which is of course home state of Virginia. These are
not going to be easy for Republicans.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
No, and I'm getting wildly conflicting messages about early voting
and turnout that I'm trying to reconcile with each other. Look,
I will say that even though it is an uphill
battle in Virginia. Republicans are making a good showing. Yeah,
certainly a respectable showing in the early voting totals compared
to other years. Youngkin's great contribution to the Virginia GOP.
(03:28):
Among many other things, He's been a very good governor,
but is to have increased the party's capabilities when it
comes to getting people out to vote when it comes
to running up totals in rural areas, which had not
been done well previous to that, particularly trying to answer
the urban surges during the Obama years. So I do
think I saw somebody say that in all the polling
(03:51):
that shows, obviously we'd like the AG race to turn
out a Republican win, just to keep the guy who
wants me and my children dead off of out public office, who,
by the way, was on stage at the Obama rally.
Right Obama was like, we should be able to disagree
without disrespecting each other, and then there's mister kill everybody.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Anyway, we'd like that to be a win.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I saw a stat that was encouraging that is, like,
if span Berger, who is the top of the ticket,
doesn't win by eleven plus, the AG race goes Republican,
she can't drag him across the line.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
So if we could keep it.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Dight, keep it dight? Is she pulling eleven plus? I
feel like everything I've seen has her seven or eight.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, it's it's more like kissing double digits, but not
quite there.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Okay, all right, Virginia, you know what to do New
York City. I just have so many friends who are
so hopeful that Cuomo was going to pull it out,
And I mean maybe every time, you know, I can't
like you. I'm parsing these early vote totals, like, oh, look,
the Hasidic Jewish communities have really come out in the
early voting days. But like, I don't know that city's
(05:00):
super blue. I think a lot of people walk into
the booth and vote either Republican or Democrat. And Cuomo
is running on the third party line, Like we have
to like he's also my mom, and be like, you
can't go in and vote Republican. You have to vote.
You have to find Andrew Como on his weird third
party line.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
That's part of it.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
His ballot placement is very bad. He's stuck in the
middle of a second row. Yeah, I should also note
that for Republicans, and this is something that again Youngkin
has worked on correcting for but four Republicans because of
the realignment of the kind of voters Republicans get.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Now, Republicans have.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Lower propensity voters, which means they are less likely to
come out in an off year election. The suburban moms
are the put it on your calendar, do all the
things for make sure that we show up every single
time there's a vote.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Young male new voters.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Not as likely to be showing up every time. So
that is a sort of an evolution in the party
that does cause problem. And these off your elections if
you're not working really hard to get people out, and
credit to Yankin and Scott Pressler and others who.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Do the hard work on the ground to make that happen.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Absolutely Republicans need to like put a voting booth in
the toilet paper aisle where you buy like the single
pack of toilet paper that single men go for, like
because again suburban moms ordering it on Amazon, getting like
a four month pack, you.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Know, and then like the single heat up meals like
those are that's this is ours, this is our area.
I should note also just for y'all's education. That California
is of course considering Proposition fifty. That's their their their
constitutional amendment to change the way that they do redistricting
so that they can have more democratic seats. Voters in
(06:46):
Texas will decide whether to amend the constitution to say
that persons who are not citizens of the United States
cannot vote in Texas. I'm sure the Libs find this
very controversial. In Maine, they're doing some voting changes. There's
a gun law question on Maine's ballot. Parental rights in Texas,
an amendment that would affirm that parents are the primary
decision makers for their children and a couple, like environmental
(07:06):
things other places, but those are the Nothing is dominating
the ballot measures this year. There's no big theme like
there's in the past. It's been abortion related stuff, right
this year, not a big theme.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I think it's just do hate Donald Trump. If so,
come vote for the Democrats. That's that's where they are
right now, which is not a bad place to be
because a lot of these people do hate Donald Trump
and want to send a message. So there will be
that message. I think I mentioned in a previous episode
that Miami is having an election and a I don't
(07:37):
want to call her far left because it does dilute
the term because she's not an AOC, she's not his
arm I'm Donnie. But for Florida, she's pretty left. Is
leading in the polls, and there's like a mayoral race.
It's a mayoral race. It's different than New York City
because Miami has like six mayors and it's not just
you know, she's going to run like three neighborhoods basically
(07:58):
if she wins, but it's still important. But there's like
ten candidates running and one of them is endorsed by
Ron DeSantis. It looks like this woman, Eileen versus I
believe his name is Gonzales are going to be in
a runoff together. And then at that point it's also
non part is an election. I should know. They're not
(08:18):
running on party lines, so it's different. But again, if
a liberal or a leftist or whatever somewhere between wins
mayor of Miami, that does kind of slow down Republican
momentum going into the midterms. It's a small, nothing race,
but it sends a message that the Democrats, you know,
who have been massively unpopular in the last year. Maybe
(08:41):
are mounting a little bit of a comeback.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, we shall see.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm interested in what do you think of Obama showing
up at the end in New Jersey?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
So funny he went to New Jersey too, right?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah he did? Yeah, you know, like you said, his
whole like we have to be better, do each other thing.
Like I see him as the most divisive president. He
is the one who I feel like split us apart
in a way that we haven't been able to recover from.
It wasn't George W. Bush. It was not George W.
Bush who did that. It was Barack Obama. I don't know.
I guess it means that they think it's closer. But
(09:12):
if it's not close, is he not going to come?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
The thing about him is it's such a myth that
he has coattails, right he is. He is an important
figure and then a party, but he has never really
brought people across the line in the way that they
sort of pretend he does when they're like we're bringing
in the big guns and it's like okay.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
But while he was in office, you guys.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Lost thousands lots of things, thousands.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Of seats where he was speaking, and then I think
for me, you know, I've always frequently seen through Obama's
rhetoric about how we should all.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Be good to each other.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
But standing on the stage and giving that speel the
same stage that the Ages nominee who wants to shoot
the Speaker of the House and Replican Speaker of the
House in Virginia.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Okay, enough enough, sir. Yeah, I like that. It means
that they are nervous.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
It's closer, right, Yeah, It's closer than they want it
to be, which again.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Would be huge. All of these races matter obviously for
the people living in those places, but on a national level,
what these races matter for really is to see where
the midterms are headed. And I think they'll give us
a little bit of a preview. Again, it's probably going
to be a Democratic sweep, but it has to be
a democratic sweep. If it's not a Democratic sweep, Democrats
(10:34):
in a world of hurt going into the midterms. Again,
if it's close, that that's very good for Republicans.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Can I also say too, by the way, when some
seiarus has been doing the work on the ground, she's
been trying to take advantage of all these insane Northern
Virginia school board policies which are just awful. There's tons
of controversies going on. Are Soros funded prosecutor in my
county that just lets people out willy nilly all of
that stuff?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Didn't do that I would.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I would like to say. I read a New Yorker
piece that was like, Abigail Spenberger thinks that Democrats need
to listen more, and it's like, Okay, again, she's posing
as the normy savior, and I think that if she wins,
it's not by virtue of being normy, unless by being
normy you just mean she's not mom Dannie.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Like that's gonna be a low bar that a lot
of Democrats are going to celebrate clearing.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, because I don't think she actually wants to listen.
She hasn't moderated on gender issues, She hasn't been willing
to speak up about any of these controversies, things that
are again eighty twenty issues. She just keeps her mouth shut.
She wants the state to be a sanctuary state at
some level, she's like, doesn't want to cut that off.
(11:48):
And then she was asked this weekend if she would
work with Trump on like job development and making sure
that Virginas have jobs.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Here's her answer to that.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You position yourself as a consensus builder, someone who works
across the aisle.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Would you work with President Trump on areas like job creation?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I think that you know you don't work with the
arsonist who burns down the house to rebuild it, and
in this particular case, on the individual who's responsible for
an absolute attack on the federal workforce is not the
right person to help rebuild our economy.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Are you going to work with Donald Trump? No? No,
definitely not.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
And a lot of her sort of mythos.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
She did win in a swing district in Virginia that
had a lot of rural area in it, But I
have been surprised how unimpressive she is on the trail
at moments like this. And her whole claim to fame
is that in twenty twenty, in a private discussion with Democrats,
she said, like, we need to lean away from this
defund the police craziness. Yeah, good point, Representative Spanburger. That
(12:54):
was a leaked conversation. She didn't say that all. I
just think her credits and the normy area are not
as strong as people will suggest they are.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's funny because it's usually for Democrats. It's like the
private conversations are further to the left. She has to
pretend to be more of a leftist than she is
to get elected. That's great, that's great.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Anyway, we will cure it on those results when we
have them.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, we'll be right back with more on normally. We
are back on normally, with a little infighting on the right,
although I don't love the way that sounds because I
don't consider some of the people involved to be on
the right anymore or ever. Really, last episode, we talked
(13:43):
about Tucker Carlson having white supremacist Nick Fuentes. I don't
even know what to call him, white supremacist, just racist,
anti semitic, very misogynistic, just a gross human on his show.
He softballed Tucker, gave him softball questions and really kind
of tried to normalize fuents This story would have maybe
(14:05):
started to die down. I mean, how long can we
talk about a podcaster having another podcaster on his show.
Tucker's been heading in a really dark direction. As I
like to say, I was a big fan of Tucker
when he was a conservative. I don't really see any
conservative values from him anymore. He makes fun of Trump
administration accomplishments like no boys in girls' sports, or he
(14:28):
opposed the strike on Iran, which listen, I get it,
you could oppose, but he thinks there was a failure,
and I'm sorry. It just there's no way you could
see it like that. The new news that happened is
the Heritage Foundation, which is a storied conservative organization, has
into this debate. This story.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, and Heritage, by the way, sort of got it
is known best or it's sort of its origin story
was that a couple of conservatives were like, we need
something that actually creates Paulo's so that if there's someone
ever elected who's conservative while we're in the wilderness in
the late seventies, we could be able to hand them something.
And that something was a lot of the architecture for
(15:11):
Reagan's term. Not that Reagan of course didn't have his
own ideas, but there was a blueprint handed out that
was like called the Mandate for Leadership controversially renamed Project
twenty twenty five from the very boring version that they
used to call it. So Mandate for Leadership was like
sort of like an underpinning of Reagan's years, and so
(15:32):
that has been the jumping off point for the rest
of Heritage history. But Heritage has undergone evolution as the
Republican Party and the Conservative movement has undergone evolution, and
this seems like an evolution I'm not excited about.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah. So, Kevin Roberts is the current president of Heritage
and Heritage Action, and I really like him. I am
not in any way anti Kevin Roberts. I thought he
was doing a fantastic job at Heritage. I get the
criticisms of Project twenty twenty five, but I thought a
lot of it was really smart. It's crazy to me
(16:08):
that we're having this conversation about Kevin Roberts because I
always saw him as such a kind of not middle
of the road. That's the wrong term. Very again, maybe normal,
maybe normal is the way to go here. I saw
him as a normal guy. So what he did on
Friday is he put out a video and he tweeted,
I'm sorry it wasn't Friday, it was Thursday. He said.
(16:29):
There's been speculation that Heritage is distancing itself from Tucker
Carlson over the past twenty four hours. I want to
put that to rest right now here are my thoughts,
and he just said such inflammatory things. Let's roll a
clip that I think was particularly inflammatory.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
We will always defend America, and we will always defend
our friends against the slander of bad actors who serve
someone else's agenda. That includes Tucker Carlson, who remains and
as I have said before, always will be a close
friend of the Heritage Foundation. The venomous coalition attacking him
are sewing division. Their attempt to cancel him will fail.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
The venomous coalition who serves somebody else's interests. It's a
really dark kind of phrasing, and I think a lot
of people were shocked at it. The thing is and
what I've loved so much about being a conservative always,
but really in the last week when this bubbled up,
when Fentis went on Tucker's show, it was near unanimous
(17:35):
condemnation from conservatives. Of course, there are some who are like,
you know, let's hear the crazy white supremacists who hated
Charlie Kirk and tried to get people to not vote
for Donald Trump in this last election. Let's hear him out.
And I don't think the hearing him out is the problem.
So much as he went completely unchallenged by Tucker Carlston
(17:55):
because Tucker himself has gone down this terrible road where
he's obsessed with Jews and with Israel, and all of
his shows and all of his newsletters are only and
always about this. So for Kevin Roberts to get into
this and say we will stand by Tucker no matter
what he says was just a crazy thing to do.
(18:17):
And the backlash to this has been swift and I
just love to see it.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, And apparently what triggered this was someone took down
an internal web page or not an internal webpage but
not an important part of the website, but something that
referenced Carlson on the heritage website. And then there was
this like they felt the need to set the record
straight while all of us were setting the record straight
that like probably hosting right white nationalist is not a
great idea now important for the right also not just
(18:45):
the standing up on this, but I didn't see one
person call for Tucker to not have a play right right.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Zero people said that, or who was trying to cancel him.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Here people are saying that what they are saying is like, look,
I wouldn't make the decision to have Fintus on my show.
I don't think it's good to elevent like him. I
want my guardrails like way out here with a lot
of allowable speech.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
But like I'm not hosting that.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Okay, Yeah, how if I did this, I would ask
difficult questions.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
If someone wishes to host him, please grill him. And
I know you're smart enough to do it.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So it was to me an unforced error, but telling
that the head of Heritage Foundation felt the need to
stand up on this point, and he said, you know,
I find some of Foin's views abhorrent, but like we
don't sort of shut off discussion, and it's like, okay.
The other thing is Tucker's whole thing is saying the
(19:42):
rest of us are wrong about everything, right, right, if
indeed we are on the same side, which, as you
point out, it feels very much not like that, then
why is he not in trouble for coming at everybody else?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Exactly? It's only one side and this has been the point.
Also on the Tucker Finds interview, Tucker said that he
hates Christian Zionists, and again, Charlie Kirk was murdered not
even two months ago, and he was I think he
was the most famous Christian Zionist in the country. Like
I can't think of anybody bigger than Charlie Kirk on
(20:18):
Christian Zionism. But what is Tucker saying here, And it's
just it's mind boggling. Well, and the fact that he
can so often say, all these people on the right,
he hates this person, and he hates this person, and
he hates this person and he hates this person. And
that's not sowing divisions somehow that's a problem.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, and also to that point, let me commend Dana
lash who amazing, which is so great, who is a
conservative who has worked with heritage forever as many of
us have, right, and she went to them and said
to her contacts over there, like get him on the
show so that I can talk to him and ask
him what you guys are doing.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Because this is one of these things that can.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Feel very in the weeds, and it is right, this
is this is an online conversation has a movement conversation,
not a normy conversation.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
However, what happens in.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
These fights dictated what flows downstream eventually. So that's the
fight we're having Dana Lash was in the fight and
she had a question about exactly what were you were
saying for Kevin Roberts, and this was his response.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
What we're trying to do is eliminate that kind of
venom both directions.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Is it venomous to say that you hate Christian zionis?
Speaker 6 (21:26):
Well, of course it is. I mean, I've been really clear,
not just yesterday and today, but my entire career that
and Heritage certainly has in its entire existence, that those
kinds of things are just abhorrent. I was I said
that literally yesterday.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Because Tucker said those things, So that would be I mean,
is that not so?
Speaker 3 (21:47):
In division?
Speaker 6 (21:50):
It's certainly not helpful, but it doesn't mean that he
ought to be canceled because of it.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
In fact, that's not the question is not whether he
should be canceled. Is that so in division to say
things like that.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
Certainly, and a lot of our friend's minds.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
But the point that you didn't put that in your statement.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
Because the proximity or the context for the statement was
something very different. And that was, as we were talking
about a few minutes ago, all of the pressure that
Heritage was receiving to cancel Tucker, which is not we
wouldn't do that to you, We wouldn't do that to him.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
That's the question. He also seemed very surprised by many
of the things that she brought up that Tucker has said,
which led people to believe that he didn't write the video,
he didn't write the text for the video, and then
his chief of staff was moved to some other part
of Heritage Foundation and people like, oh, maybe that's who
wrote it. Again, you're right, this is so in the weeds.
(22:46):
But another defense of Tucker that I keep seeing online
is why are we wasting time talking about this? We
have real issues, we have a real fight with the left.
And again I say, take this up with Tucker Cross.
Why is he not talking about any of the issues
that we have with the left? Why is he constantly
constantly only going after people on the right, And why
(23:09):
is he constantly only talking about Israel, only talking about Jews,
making that the focal point of every single episode. It's
just there's something about that that is dark, and I
think that you can't ignore that and pretend that we're
the ones who keep talking about Tucker. No, he's the
one who keeps bringing the conversation back to this, And
(23:30):
I'll also say Tucker does these newsletters now, and the
newsletters are almost entirely about Israel or Jews. So on
today's newsletter, the headline is Trump threatens to defund Nigeria
if Christian killings continue. Now you would think Tucker Carlston,
self proclaimed Christian, would before this. He doesn't come off
(23:51):
as super four defunding Nigeria. In fact, guess what he
found a way to bring it back to He says, so,
how come Mark Levin would label him an anti Jewish
racist if he made the exact same statement about Israel.
Isn't that a weird double standard? This may be hard
for Levin and his ethno narcissist caucus to accept, but
criticism of their beloved country has nothing to do with Judaism,
(24:13):
just like Trump's statement on Nigeria is not an attack
on blacks. It's about putting America first. Christians are being slaughtered,
and this is what your argument is. It just there's
nothing conservative going on here.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Well, and I think you could deploy the same bandwidth
an attention argument against Roberts, who I think probably has
learned a lesson from this that maybe the one straight
to camera video you do in a week shouldn't be
about this. Yeah, right, it really That's what it signaled
to me, is like, oh, this is a very big
deal to him that he did this video. And I
(24:47):
think part of that, again, this is the struggle. Part
of that is because there is a young cohort of
right leaning young people that I think misc Some people
are thinking the only way to keep these people yes
in the movement is to host this guy. And I'm like, no, no, no,
(25:07):
perhaps we should host better people, right, and.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
This will argue about this guy.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, the vacuum left by Charlie Kirk is so damaging
because he was the model for that.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
You're absolutely right, all right. I'm going to end with
two white pills, as the kids say, and one of them,
actually tweets actually contain contains the phrase white pill. This
one's from Joel Berry. He says it's a major white pill,
which means a positive thing. That the Heritage Foundation gave
no enemies to the right a mainstream test drive this week,
and it blew up in their faces because the American
(25:41):
right still has a conscience and a moral compass. Praise
Praise Christ the King for small mercies, and I just
you know, I love that so much, because again I
wasn't sure how it was going to go. I wasn't
sure that the right was going to say absolutely not
not on our watch. Tucker is a very popular figure.
I've said it before, but he is very personable. I
(26:03):
really used to like him and care about him a lot.
I understand that impulse from other people, but he is
leading us down a dangerous path. The other tweet similar
to this is from Abe Greenwald. He says the right
responded to half a dozen Jew hating podcasters and one
think tank president with overwhelming and immediate condemnation. The left
encouraged two years of abject pro jihad support and terrorism
(26:27):
to thrive without ever putting its foot down. I'm so
glad we're not doing the same as the left has
done here well.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And I want to say also just in a general sense,
because of the generational change in views on Israel, which
may be recovered.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
At some points, but.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
The lasting victory of Israel from seven fronts during the
past two years, pretty again, good bye President Trump, really
important for moving forward if in fact the public.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Turn off the.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Changes in these coming generations. And you know, there can
be work to do about educating people about our only,
our only liberal democracy alley in the Middle East. It's
pretty important.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, all right, I'll end this. I am not worried
about Israel. I'm worried about America. When I hear the
Tuckers and the Fuentesses, I'm not like, oh God, Israel's
going to suffer because of this. I think America is
going to suffer because of this. Israel will be just fine.
Will we be just fine if we take their path?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I mean, you can look around at the left for
the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
You really can. Great. No, no good, all right, we'll
be right back with more on normally. We are back
on normally where Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow is getting some
really gross condemnation and we are here to say absolutely
(27:54):
not on our watch.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I told you guys, I was gonna be a widow
defense because it is a strange thing in particularly if
you're a public figure, that people really feel free to
speculate about you, to question your motives. I got this
after my husband died in twenty fifteen, or people would
just assume that I got jobs because no like it
(28:17):
is gross. It's a gross thing. It happens not infrequently.
This woman is now, I think, like fifty five days
from having watched her husband be murdered, and people are
watching her under a microscope, and I think some of
it is just like this is how this goes. Some
(28:37):
of it is she's too public and she's too powerful,
and there are people both on left and right who
do not like that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
But I got news for y'all. Her name's Kirk. She's
legally the inheritor of his legacy. She is now legally
the inheritor of the organization that he ran. That makes
perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
If you don't like a lady doing that, you might
get mad about it. But like the accusations of the
most recent one is somebody took a screenshot from a
hug she gave Vice President jd Vance and alleged this
is inappropriate. If you watch the video, you'll know why
they chose a screenshot because the video is like zero
point seven seconds.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
The hug is like hug moves, yeah, right. But the
desire is to plant these terrible seeds about this woman
who is like just trying to get through it. Guys,
and by the way, trying to box out forces that
are bad, trying to take over her husband's legacy.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
She's been forced to do.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
That, right. Absolutely. We mentioned in the last segment that
Nick Fuentess hated Charlie Kirk and the feeling was mutual.
Charlie Kirk thought Nick Fuentess was bringing some of the
absolute worst elements in the country out, And yeah, Erica
now needs to preserve TPUSA from that Fuentas wing and
finds frequently talks and brags about bringing down TPUSA. So
(30:00):
this is a woman who is not only preserving her family,
having to take care of her children who watched her husband,
as you said, be murdered right in front of her.
She's also somebody who has to protect this organization and
she's doing the best she can. I pray for her,
and we're absolutely not going to stand for any Erica
Kirk bashing.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, one last thought, Kyle Kulinski was perhaps among the
worst behaved. He is a liberal commentator married to Crystal Ball,
and he just went on a full day long AI
disgusting display attacking her for her fake grief for what
you know, alleging that she was in affairs with people.
It's so disgusting. It should be counterproductive for their movement
(30:40):
and anyone making this kind of accusation, and I hope
that it is. And he got a lot of flak
for it, but the fact that he kept posting it
is one of the things I dislike about the Internet,
which is like more clicks meant more money for him
for this disgusting stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's really terrible, and I saw people on the right
also engaging with it. Again, I think it's that same
point as Wing engaging with it and saying, you know,
she's not just appropriately. She needs to humble herself, she
needs to be more modest. I think she should do
whatever she wants to do, especially to get through this
incredibly difficult time. And we are rooting for you, Erica Kirk.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
We are indeed Widow Defense over here.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That's right, I'm back up. Well, thanks for joining us
on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can
subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with
us at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening,
and when things get weird, act normally
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