December 2, 2025 • 36 mins
Hour 1 of today’s Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show dives into major breaking stories and political controversies shaping the national conversation. The program opens with an urgent reminder about the special election in Tennessee’s 7th Congressional District, emphasizing its importance for conservatives and the broader midterm cycle. Clay and Buck stress voter turnout to prevent Democrats from flipping a key seat in a district home to prominent voices like Matt Walsh, Michael Knowles, and Candace Owens.
The discussion then shifts to the escalating drug boat strikes in the Caribbean, a bold Trump administration initiative targeting narco-terrorist operations linked to Venezuela. The hosts analyze reports alleging a controversial “double-tap” strike on a vessel, sparking accusations of potential war crimes. They break down the legal and ethical implications under the Law of Armed Conflict, debate media narratives, and highlight Democrats’ efforts to use this story to politically damage Secretary of War Pete Hegseth. Clay offers a lawyer’s perspective on whether follow-up strikes were lawful, while Buck compares this situation to past drone strike controversies under previous administrations.
Adding to the tension, the show covers Trump’s ultimatum to Nicolás Maduro, giving the Venezuelan leader until Friday to vacate power or face possible U.S. action. The hosts weigh the pros and cons of regime change, its historical pitfalls, and its strategic significance given Venezuela’s vast oil reserves. They invite Venezuelan-American listeners to share their views on intervention and democracy restoration.
Hour 1 also features real-time updates from a Trump cabinet meeting, including Hegseth’s strong defense of the strikes and claims that maritime drug trafficking is down 91% under the new policy. The conversation explores broader themes of border security, fentanyl smuggling, and the Biden administration’s failures on immigration and narcotics enforcement.
Finally, Clay and Buck preview growing partisan battles, noting Democrats’ intent to impeach Trump if they regain the House, and their focus on targeting key figures like Hegseth and Kash Patel. The hour closes with expert insight from a former naval intelligence officer affirming the legality of the strikes and rejecting claims of unlawful “finish-off” orders.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everybody to the Tuesday, December second edition of the
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. We are racked and stacked.
First order of business, got to get to it right away,
just to get it on your radar, because we do have,
thanks to one of us being a born and raised
Tennessee and in fact a Nashvillian, more specifically, very important
(00:23):
seventh Congressional District in Tennessee, Afton Baine, trying to get
sneaky and take this seat away from the Republican mister
Van Epps, and I think that we need to make
sure that doesn't happen. My friends, you need to get
out and devote. Today is election day. It is happening
(00:43):
special election, special election. Do not be caught napping on
this one. This is important because if nothing else, they
will make fun of and antagonize our good friend Clay
every day if he has basically the most left wing
member of Congress in the United States Congress as his
(01:04):
home Congress. It's not just Clay. You got a hold
basically the whole Daily Wire. Shapiro doesn't live there, but
the rest of the Daily Wires there. Matt Walsh, I
think is in the area right. Does Matt Walsh live roughly.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
In Matt Walsh is there, Michael Knowles, our friend Riley Gaines,
Tommy Kandarren Canvas Owens.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So it's a lot, It's a lot. This is like,
this is a hometown fight here for the seventh Congressional
and all of you who are listening need to get
out and need to vote. Let's not give the Democrats
something early to celebrate going into.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This this morning. So I'm telling you to do exactly
what I did. I dropped my son off at school
and then I walked right into the precinct there and
I voted. So I'm asking everybody in from the border
of Kentucky to the border of Alabama the seventh congressional district.
I even had a friend text me and say, hey,
(01:58):
I thought that that was my district, right to go
to my polling place. There was no race, there was
no election going Okay, you did your part because this
is a new this is a new district in many ways,
and a lot of people are not aware of this
race going on. So I went on with Sean Hannity
last night. We've been talking about it like crazy on
this program. I feel like I have done everything I
(02:21):
can to help make people aware. This race is happening,
and today is the last day to go vote.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So you got to get out there and vote. We've
talked about the race, You've heard it, you know what's
going on, you know the issues here. Just gonna be
giving you reminders today during the show, because of course
we are live here for three hours with you. It's
a great time to be listening to Clay and Buck
on your way to go vote in that district. So
get out there and get it done, all right. Other things,
the drug vote controversy, and Venezuela, the Caribbean unusual for
(02:52):
it to be quite the scene of action that it
is now, but the Caribbean and Venezuela and the drug
trade are all very much in the headlines. Pete Hegset
the Secretary of War, getting a lot of heat, a
lot of criticism, no surprise for these strikes, and there's
been some reporting that has now contested about a double tap,
(03:16):
if you will, on one of these boats. I think
was the first boat strike. Actually, we're gonna discuss some
of that and also the implications for Venezuela, where it
is now being said the President has given Maduro was
it to Friday Sorry Tuesday Friday deadline. Trump went on
a truth posting bonanza last night, posting truths to truth
(03:40):
social We will get into some of those. The cabinet
is meeting currently, will bring you the highlights of that.
The Trump Cabinet Caroline Levitt also had a fire repress
conference yesterday. We'll bring you some of the best moments
from that. Zora Mamdani is being a crazy commie. Tom
Homan is saying the Biden administration it wasn't bad enough
(04:01):
for them to let ten million illegals flood the country. Clay.
They also said, you know what, let's just take in
all these Afghans and not vet them at all. Basically,
you raise your hand and say, hey, I did great
things for America. You owe me. Okay, we'll take you. Hmm.
Not a good idea. Not a good idea. But let's
talk first about the drug boat situation.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Here, Clay.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Now they're they're making a thing of this, and we've
discussed this. They really have wanted to take Secretary Hegseeth
off of the chess board from the very beginning. I
think the media has gone after Trump. Would would you
co sign this one. In term two, Pete has been
targeted number two after Trump. Trump's always target number one.
(04:45):
I think that's accurate.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I think Cash Patel has moved now number through the
number three spot on the attack list, and I think
we've kind of stayed in that range. I think there
would be probably a big off. I mean, Ewon obviously
was not in the cabinet, but he was probably the
most attacked in the first six months or so of Trump.
(05:08):
But in the cabinet, I think heg Seth's one. I
think that then Cash Bettel is two, and I would
you agree with me, there's a huge drop off after
those two. I don't even know who the third biggest
target would be. It's been like just kind of alternating
between heg Seth and with Cash.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
They have been trying to go after David Sachs as
well lately. The Crypto and Ais are who we would
like to get on this program soon to talk about
what he's doing. But he's a very savvy cat and
has been not only able to defend himself very effectively
without having to do very much because a lot of
(05:47):
the stuff that they're saying is just not true. Other
people have been coming to his defense as well, saying
he's in this position of he has so much money,
money has very little meeting for him. He actually thinks
that he's helping the country and that's why he's in
this special advisory role, special employee to the administration. But
we can get more into that too. But they wanted
they want hag Seth out, They want to be able
(06:09):
to show the Democrat base, Hey, we can still call
the shots in the media. We can still get a scalp,
so to speak. And so this is where we're talking about,
not just the boat strikes, which I'm going to tell
you right now, Clay. They're going to impeach Trump over
this if they win the House. All right, I do
you have any doubt whatsoever about that.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
They're going to be over this specifically, they're going to
impeach him, probably over whatever. I mean, they're going to
find something to impeach him over. We agree one hundred
percent that they will impeach him for a third time
for still impeach if they win the House.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I think this is I think this is top of
the list, and that's why they're so dug in on this.
I believe it. They're going to try to make the
case that that these are war crimes. That's exactly, and
they're already saying it, so it's that's not a stretch
at all. But they also want to use it to
it as a cudgel to force Secretary of warhag Seth
(07:04):
out of office. Here is I mean, for example, for example,
here is former Deputy Assistant ag This is cut eight. John,
wait before we played the cut. So the claim Clay,
so we're clear on this is that Pete, let's call
on Pete. Sometimes we know oversaw and was watching in
(07:26):
real time a strike on the first of these boats,
and that they hit the boat, you know, jaysack blew
this boat up, and then there was wreckage. There was
you know, pieces of it, and there were a couple
of guys who were clinging to the wreckage. And then
the order that the affmative order was given to send
a second missile strike to kill the guys who were
clinging to the records. That's the claim. This is disputed.
(07:50):
Here is though, what it's being said by people in
the media now about this play eight.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
If you look at the US Law of warm Manual,
which is the definitive interpretation of the way we fight.
The laws of armed conflict for the United States, it
says clearly that you are not allowed to give orders
that say no survivors. Commanders are not allowed to give
ors say no quarter, and so hagg Seth can't give
that command legally. Also, again there are gray errors, but
(08:16):
on one area that's not gray that's clear is you
can't fire on the wounded. You can't kill survivors who
can no longer fight. So the admiral should not have
obeyed the order that Secretary Hegseth gave, and even the
soldiers who carried out the admiral's orders should not have obeyed.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Clay. Lawyer Clay work us through this a bit.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Okay, So Warrior Clay, let me first say, I obviously
don't have firsthand knowledge, but if I were making a
case here, there are several angles that I think would
be in play. Let me start with defending the decision.
If this were what happened from them, I think they
can say this wasn't a set can strike to kill survivors.
(09:01):
The boat was still operable, and we were concerned that
we hadn't fulfilled the original mission. Right, You can hit
a boat or a vehicle multiple times if you do
not believe you have actually rendered it to be anoperable.
In other words, I think there's probably a defense that, hey,
the first strike did not do the complete damage that
(09:23):
was necessary. We did a second strike on top of it.
I also think that there is potentially an issue here
where if there are prisoners taken, then there is going
to be a legal challenge to whether the president has
the authority to undertake these actions, and do we then
(09:46):
have an obligation to go rescue the survivors all these
other different things. I think that could be in play.
But again, what are the facts, What were the exact orders,
What was the intent of the order? Remember, there are
all sorts of issues out there where we have an
attack that is ordered and it's the wrong attack, right.
(10:09):
We talked about this on the program before. In Afghanistan,
we killed an innocent family. We thought the guy was
a terrorist that obviously got a decent amount of attention.
So there are errors of interpretation that occur on these
strikes too. I think it's very hard to know direct
intent right. Well, we have to know the facts here.
The facts are not agreed upon, and I would say.
(10:31):
One thing that has been established for a long time
by the Obama administration, among others, but the Obama administration
really accelerated it was the signature drone strikes where they
would hit a target based upon a series of factors
that were not one hundred percent and clearly not because
they did blow up women and children sometimes. And this
was going on in Pakistan, a country with which we
(10:53):
were not actually at war, and a country that we
were pretending publicly, at least for a long time in
the Obama years. Oh no, we're not doing drone strikes there.
That's classified.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
The New York Times was writing front page stories about it,
but the Obama administration, clay to avoid dealing with it
in public, would just say that there's you know, it's classified.
We're we're not talking about that. That was accepted by
all of the people who currently are sitting around angry
at the Trump administration or supposedly anger at Trump administration
for what's going on here. So we do know that
(11:25):
there are civilian casualties from strikes that are based on
presidential authority. That does happen, But as you pointed out,
it as accidental here. It would be to the point
made by John You. Now, John You, why do they
have John You making the rounds everybody? A little bit
of history if we all recall twenty years back or so,
he was the so called torture memo guy under the
Bush administration, so he was tied to enhanced interrogation techniques.
(11:49):
So what you have now is the media having former
Deputy Attorney General John You under Bush, a Republican, saying
if you give an order for no survivors, that that's
a war crime. And this is from the guy who
was like, we got to waterboard people. Sometimes you gotta
do what you gotta do.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And again all of this comes in rising tension with Venezuela.
Again we should mention also there's a cabinet meeting going
on right now. Trump is taking questions. We're monitoring it
in real time. As you said off the top, the
biggest part of this story is there is a report
that Trump has given Maduro and his family until Friday
(12:30):
to vacate the country or potentially we are going to
take him out and install a more democratic government in Venezuela,
which tons of people have a lot of opinions on.
I said yesterday on the program I stand by it.
I think that this can be akin to the strikes
(12:51):
that happened in Iran in that they are very strategic
and ultimately beneficial for the overall country. And we have
tons of you out there that are Venezuelan. I mean
Buck lives in Miami, which is filled with tons of
Venezuelan refugees. As we said yesterday on the program, Venezuela
has the largest deposit of oil, certainly in the Western Hemisphere,
(13:15):
and used to be a thriving country that was very,
very successful before the Maduro and that regime came into power.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Third richest country in the world after the United States
and Canada per capita at one point in recent memory.
So yeah, Venezuela should be doing great. It's not. Turns
out that communism ruins everything. Guys who could have known, well,
anybody who pays attention to history. We'll talk more about
this though, because I know, on the one hand we
(13:43):
hate commis. On the other hand, we also hate regime
change and rebuilding operations for other countries, and there are
people that are concerned that that may be something that
we face here sooner than later when it comes to Venezuela.
We'll discuss. Want to hear from you as well. Also,
if we have any Ventnezuelan refugees or Venezuelan Americans play
(14:04):
listening right now, if you want to weigh in on
this one, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts
on should we topple Maduro? Should we just keep the
pressure on? How involved should we be? What do you
think is going to happen here? No doubtkay, yes, no doubt. Indeed,
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of rather, if you believe the life of an unborn
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(14:45):
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Speaker 4 (15:48):
Saving America, One thought at a time, Clay Travis and
Buck Sex to them. Find them on the free iHeartRadio
app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We're gonna
pull the audio because Secretary of War Pete Hegseth was
just talking about these attacks that have occurred on Venezuelan boats.
Let me read you this quote. They're not talking about
that right now. It appears the lutnik is talking right now.
(16:22):
I'm watching the press conference is be the cabinet meeting
is being carried live right now on Fox News. Here's
what the press secretary for the Department of War just said.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Buck.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
At the end of the day, the Secretary of says
Kingsley Cortes. At the end of the day, the Secretary
and the President are the ones directing these strikes, any
follow on strikes like those that were directed by Admiral
Batt Bradley. The Secretary one hundred percent agrees with Secretary
has been very clear in every statement we've released about
these strikes. They're presidentially directed. Chain of command functions as
(16:59):
it should. We make sure commanders on the ground their
positions are taken into account. They're able to tell us
make decisions if they see things that need to be flagged.
But at the end of the day, the Secretary and
the President are the ones directing these strikes any follow
on strikes like those which were directed by Admiral Bradley.
The Secretary one hundred percent agrees with. That is a
(17:21):
full quote shared by Mary Margaret Olahan, who works for
the Daily Wire at the White House, and that is
from the Department of Wars Press Secretary Kingsley Cortes. So Buck,
we will talk a bit more about this when we
come back, and we'll try to get that audio of
Secretary of War headset addressing that directly, which just happened
(17:43):
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Speaker 1 (18:53):
All right, welcome back in here to Clay and Buck.
A lot of news happening in real time here, and
we are monitoring, we are bringing it to you. There's
a cabinet meeting underway right now. You got Trump, HeiG Seth, Duffy,
you got lut Nick. I mean, you've got all these
different top officials of the Trump administration who are weighing
(19:16):
in on a whole range of things. But we were
just talking about these strikes on these lethal strikes on
Narco terrorist boats in the Caribbean. Secretary of War Hegg
Seth addressed this just a moment ago. We wanted to
let you hear from him what's going on. Play thirty three, and.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Then it's getting after going after Narco terrats and designated
terrorist organizations in our own hemisphere. As I've said, I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Again, we've only just begun.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
Striking narco boats and putting Narco terraces at the bottom
of the ocean because they've been poisoning the American people.
And Joe Biden tried to approach it with kick loops,
allowed them to come across the border, cartels, takeover community,
twenty million people, hundreds of thousands of Americans poisoned, and
President Trump said, no, we're taking the gloves off.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
We're taking the fight.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
To these designated terror organizations.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And that's exactly what we're doing.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
So we're stopping the drugs, we're striking the boats, we're
defeating narco terrorists, and we're saying to you, may say
one thing that drugs coming in through the same by
seeing are down ninety one percent, and I don't know
who the nine percent is.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I'm not sure either.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
Circus down ninety one percent by seeing. We've had a
bit of a pause because it's hard to find boats
to strike right now, which is the entire point. Right
deterrence has to matter, not arrested, handover and then do
it again. The ricent repeat approach of previous administrations. This
is meant to get aft after that approach. And I
will just end by saying, as President Trump always has
(20:48):
our backs.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
We always have the back of our commanders who are making.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
Decisions in difficult situations, and we do in this case
and all these strikes. They're making judgment calls and ensuring
that they defend the American people think they are the
right things.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Will keep doing that, and we had their backs, which
presidents good year, Thank you very much so, Clay, that's
the latest. That was just moments ago from Secretary warhecks
A at this a cabinet meeting that they're holding. And
I would just say, first of all, isn't it amazing
when you just compare this This is a little bit
of a side note, but the transparency, the willingness to
(21:25):
face the media to discuss direct with the American people
what's going on in this administration, Compared to imagine if
it was just a random Tuesday and Joe Biden had
all this top people around unscripted just taking questions from
the press, Clay, it would not have happened as and
we all know why he had dementia. They were hiding him.
The whole thing was a scam. The whole Biden administration
was a scam, unfortunately, a scam on all the American people,
(21:45):
and the stuff that's gone on with the border as
well as the mass importation of fentandol was hugely and
dramatically worsened by the Biden scam. But Clay right now,
you know, there's a lot of different polling on this,
and you could try to the way they craft these questions.
I think by and large Republicans are supportive of strikes
(22:08):
on narco terrorist boats. Democrats obviously are not. That's not
a surprise at all, and they're hoping that they can
find a way to create a wedge within Trump supporters
on this issue. I don't think that's gonna happen. I
think the regime change issue in Venezuela is where things
get a little stickier for Maggot.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, I think that's all connected. I do wonder again,
if this is on video, they are going to continue
to kind of chip away at the overall story. And
I would imagine we've seen a lot of the video
attacks released on the ships. My surmisal would be that
(22:46):
the story will become the boat was still operable, there
were there was a possibility that the drugs would continue
to be you know, conduited on that boat, and so
we ordered to second strike to end the feasibility of
the boat's ability to do the job that is trying
(23:06):
to do. That's my bet as to what the story
is going to be. In other words, they're gonna say
the physical structure itself was targeted for a second strike,
not the potential survivors. But I do think this is
going to turn into a I do think it's going
to turn a story.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Now.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
This also, I think goes on some level to who
Democrats are going to bat for. Remember our good buddy
kill maar A Breo Garcia, who they initially attempted to
make the face of Trump's deportation policy Maryland, Dad kill
a Breo Garcia. That story has vanished because I think
(23:48):
they recognize, Yeah, this is not really the focal point
of a face to make people disagree with the policy.
I don't think Narco tears and boats are going to
be particularly sympathetic plainiffs. And when I use that for
a sympathetic plaintiffs, anybody out there who is a defense
(24:11):
attorney has experienced this. When you file a lawsuit, you
want to tell the best story of your lawsuit, frequently
involving moms.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Ever, notice how kids who file lawsuits are always honorable students,
you know, like, oh, this poor, honorable student was just
disrespected in a visual era. Isn't it amazing how often
pretty girls are you were talking about this, This NYU
student who became a victim, was attacked on the streets
(24:45):
in New York City. It's become a story, these captivating
stories because they're young, innocent, attractive people. They grab attention
in a way that is that is captivating to many
different people out there in the media. I mean, you
can say, remember the Idaho killers, those young innocent kids
(25:07):
Moscow are Moscow rather Moscow outside of the University of Idaho,
Lake and Riley. I think one reason that it cuts
through the noise. She's a young innocent college nursing student
who is murdered by an illegal immigrant. I think that
it's hard to make people think, you know, I'm really
concerned about narco terrorists. So I think the challenge cutting
(25:32):
through this noise is and it goes both ways, right
when you come to these stories, because right now they're
trying to make a story. Oh, look at this nineteen
year old college student who was deported. Oh she can
you believe this is happening. They're trying to find a
story that is captivating young innocent people. Most people, I
don't think see Narco boat captain pilots and their staff
(25:56):
that are trying to smuggle drugs into the country as
perticularly sympathetic plants. So I think that factors in here
into how the media is going to be able to
cover it.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I'm sure the administration is more than a little bit
aware of this, But to your point Clay about the
public's perception of these strikes and how they're going. As
long as we're getting Narco terrorists, I think the administra
and we're certain of this. I think the administration is
going to certainly have support of a lot of Republicans
in this. They just got to make sure they don't
(26:31):
pull a Biden administration with what we saw in Afghanistan
where they blew up. If I remember a dad and
seven kids in a cause right that they said was
a suicide bomber's vehicle, and it was not seven children
they blew up, and that was after we lost marines
because of the haphazard and disastrous withdrawal of the Biden administration.
So we took losses, We lost our marines to enemy
(26:54):
to an enemy attack, and then we blew up a
car full of children because the Biden administration was so
frantic to look like they had some idea of what
they were doing in response to us losing some of
our marines in that earlier suicide bomber attack. So this
is this look, this is we're talking about a war
on narco terrorist. This is high stake stuff. And I
(27:17):
know that Secretary of War Heags Death is very focused
in on this right now.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's clearly a political or rather the Democrats see this
as a political opportunity to go after this administration. A
lot of people weighing in on this one, Clay. I mean,
here's Senator Chris Coon's Democrat obviously, who's trying to use
this as an attack.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Play cut five.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
This incident that was just covered by the Washington Post
in recent days suggests that a war crime may have
been committed, and I think Secretary Hegseeth likely gave the order.
I know Admiral Bradley, he's the SOCOM commander, he came
up through the ranks. He is decorated, He's experienced, he seasoned.
He was one of the first Americans into Afghanistan after
(28:04):
nine to eleven. I'd be very surprised if he did
this on his own without direct support or a command
from the secretary.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I'm why it's worth I think people hearing that's just play.
This is all about getting heagset. Yeah, this is a
get hegseth operation for the Democrats in the media.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Now, well, look, the intent is not to UH, is
not to make the country better. The intent is to
get headset. And I think that's the key here that
we hit on to start the show. Hegset is target one.
Target two right now is Cash Pttel, and they have
decided to focus all of their media attacks on that duo,
(28:42):
and frankly, most everybody else has been either ignored or unscathed.
You know, they tried probably Pambondi. I would say Buck
is probably third on that list. We were talking about
the target list, but I would say to a large extent,
the pam Bondi attacks, actually a lot of them came
from the right because of the ham handed way they
(29:02):
initially handled the Epstein when they brought the influencers out
and they had the briefing in the Epstein files and
everything else, So some of that fire on Bondi came
internally from the Republican Party. I think she's probably third
on the list of cabinet member attacks. But clearly heg
Seth from the moment he was nominated has been target one,
and Cash Pattel right now I think is target two.
(29:25):
I will tell you that Democrats, from what I understand Clay,
one of the reasons Bondi is not higher on their
list is they don't view her as as effective as
some of these other I'm just this is from a
Democrat perspective. They know that Pete can't handle the media,
isn't going to back down align with Trump.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
They know that Cash aligned with Trump, you know, isn't
going to back down for media pressure and is trying
reform or reform agenda there. I will say, we do
need to establish though, if we're gonna have people from
administration speaking on this issue, Okay, is it that the
boat was still we need to fact to be clear.
(30:04):
That's we need to be clear. That's because it's my argument.
I do think you have a very hard time if
you're if the argument is that this is a lethal
threat against the United States because they're designated narco terrorists
in a boat traveling to the US with fentil, that's
going to kill people. Okay, that's the argument. They're operating
under presidential authority. Once the boat is disabled, there is
(30:25):
no longer any chance of those drugs making it to
the homeland and there and these men are not in
the fight. They are bobbing around in the water. I
do not think you can follow up with finish them off.
I do not think that that is covered in the
laws of war, the Geneva Conventions or ethics. So there
just needs to be cleared because I'm seeing people say, yeah,
(30:46):
if we have to hit them again, we hit them again.
I think that's wrong. And if you if you want
to check how this went in World War Two, the
Nazis infamously and the U boat commanders would machine gun survivors,
including million off people in the US Navy British Navy
would machine gun them in the water. They were brought
up on war crimes for that. They were not able
(31:07):
to say, well, you could still swim and maybe make
it to shore and then you could get back in
the fight. So we do need to have some clarity
on where the limits are here, which is why my
argument is boat is the target. If I if I
am lawyer Clay.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Who is representing these individuals in a in an investigation,
and look again, this is where I come back to
what is on tape, what is on audio? What evidence
is out there?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We haven't seen it fully at least if you jump
on your on your on your lawyer Clay point there.
You know Clay from self defense perspective, and someone you
know who conceal carries here and does a fair amount
of shooting and spends time with the two a community
in South Florida. You always say stop the threat. You
say when you call in, if you have to defend
yourself with a firearm, you say, on the victim of
(31:53):
a crime, you know, here's my address company. You do
not say, Yeah, some guy came in. I shot him
and then he was making his way out of my house,
so I chased him on the front lawn. I put
two in the back of his head. You're going to
prison for a long time if you do that, as
you should. Yeah, that's you know what I mean. There's
there's a difference there are kicked his.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I kicked his gun away, and then I put my
gun up against his head and killed him. Like that's
not you know, at some point, when you eliminate the threat,
you're not allowed to continue to career.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
More So, I'm just gonna say that the facts to
what Clay was saying, the facts are now, or rather
the facts that are being put forward are. You know,
they did not do a follow up strike to finish
survivors off. That order was not given. This is what
the Pentagon is saying. That order was not given and
the boat may still have been, you know, capable of continuing.
That's why the second strike came. That all you could
argue thing legally. I do not think we want to
(32:45):
hear people from the pro Trump side of things saying
there were a couple of guys who had already been
hit with a missile, who were in the middle of
the ocean or middle of the Caribbean clinging to refuse,
and we hit him again. By the way, I don't
believe that that happened here. I think this is a
hit piece. I just want to be clear. But there
are people who are trying to say that that would
be lawful too, just because they're on the team, so
(33:08):
to speak. And I do not think that's a good
place to go because you're opening yourself up to the
other side saying your defense you would you would even
if a war crime wasn't committed, Clay, we can which
I don't believe it was, to be clear, we cannot
have pro Trump people argue in favor of a clear
war crime. That's not a good idea either, right, which
is why clarity on this I think is so important.
(33:31):
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Speaker 4 (34:41):
Regular guys, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Bock Sexton Show. We're going
to take a bunch of calls on this because a
lot of you have a variety of takes. Bobby in
Maine up first says he was in military intelligence. What's
your take on the Venezuelan boat strike story?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
So, Clay and Buck, here's the bottom line. This is
Bobby Charles I was in charge of all counter narcotics
in three zero four h five as the Assistant Secretary
of State, also ten years naval intelligence and an attorney.
The bottom line is what they are doing is well
within the law. A Number one, and I think Clay,
you probably or both of you know this. There is
a legal opinion somewhere justifying exactly what they're doing. Number two,
(35:27):
there would be no finish off order. Hegseeth was in
the military. He knows very well you can't do that.
But here are the two facts people don't know. The
United States government has long supported shootdown policies by foreign countries,
including Peru, in which we shot down any plane that
we had cued intelligence for, or we allowed them to
shoot down the plane if it was known to be
carrying narcotics and avoiding interception. The second thing is in
(35:50):
our latoral waters, legally all of our we have Coast
Guard Blackhawks up there, jayhawks that are fully armed, and
they have a sniper with a sling in the open
door in order to shoot out the engines of these boats.
So point number one the law. They are well within
the law when they take an enemy combat and designated
as a foreign terrorist organization that does not stop. They
(36:13):
have cute intelligence, they know they can hit it. They
hit it. They would be outside the law if they
did a finish off order for survivors. I guarantee you
they did not do that.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
So can I just say, I think that what you're saying, sir,
you have deep expertise in this. That's what we're I
think we're all in agreement here. That's that we're We
think it's lawful to do the strikes, but it wouldn't
be lawful to do a finish off order if the
guys were floating in the water.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
So heag sets was a military officer, he knows very
well what the orders are. He knows the UCMJ probably inside.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Out right, and I don't think he gave that order.
So again, I think we're all keep him, keep them,
Let's keep talking to this guy. We'll keep the conversation
going an hour two next
Welcome everybody to the Tuesday, December second edition of the
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. We are racked and stacked.
First order of business, got to get to it right away,
just to get it on your radar, because we do have,
thanks to one of us being a born and raised
Tennessee and in fact a Nashvillian, more specifically, very important
(00:23):
seventh Congressional District in Tennessee, Afton Baine, trying to get
sneaky and take this seat away from the Republican mister
Van Epps, and I think that we need to make
sure that doesn't happen. My friends, you need to get
out and devote. Today is election day. It is happening
(00:43):
special election, special election. Do not be caught napping on
this one. This is important because if nothing else, they
will make fun of and antagonize our good friend Clay
every day if he has basically the most left wing
member of Congress in the United States Congress as his
(01:04):
home Congress. It's not just Clay. You got a hold
basically the whole Daily Wire. Shapiro doesn't live there, but
the rest of the Daily Wires there. Matt Walsh, I
think is in the area right. Does Matt Walsh live roughly.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
In Matt Walsh is there, Michael Knowles, our friend Riley Gaines,
Tommy Kandarren Canvas Owens.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So it's a lot, It's a lot. This is like,
this is a hometown fight here for the seventh Congressional
and all of you who are listening need to get
out and need to vote. Let's not give the Democrats
something early to celebrate going into.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This this morning. So I'm telling you to do exactly
what I did. I dropped my son off at school
and then I walked right into the precinct there and
I voted. So I'm asking everybody in from the border
of Kentucky to the border of Alabama the seventh congressional district.
I even had a friend text me and say, hey,
(01:58):
I thought that that was my district, right to go
to my polling place. There was no race, there was
no election going Okay, you did your part because this
is a new this is a new district in many ways,
and a lot of people are not aware of this
race going on. So I went on with Sean Hannity
last night. We've been talking about it like crazy on
this program. I feel like I have done everything I
(02:21):
can to help make people aware. This race is happening,
and today is the last day to go vote.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So you got to get out there and vote. We've
talked about the race, You've heard it, you know what's
going on, you know the issues here. Just gonna be
giving you reminders today during the show, because of course
we are live here for three hours with you. It's
a great time to be listening to Clay and Buck
on your way to go vote in that district. So
get out there and get it done, all right. Other things,
the drug vote controversy, and Venezuela, the Caribbean unusual for
(02:52):
it to be quite the scene of action that it
is now, but the Caribbean and Venezuela and the drug
trade are all very much in the headlines. Pete Hegset
the Secretary of War, getting a lot of heat, a
lot of criticism, no surprise for these strikes, and there's
been some reporting that has now contested about a double tap,
(03:16):
if you will, on one of these boats. I think
was the first boat strike. Actually, we're gonna discuss some
of that and also the implications for Venezuela, where it
is now being said the President has given Maduro was
it to Friday Sorry Tuesday Friday deadline. Trump went on
a truth posting bonanza last night, posting truths to truth
(03:40):
social We will get into some of those. The cabinet
is meeting currently, will bring you the highlights of that.
The Trump Cabinet Caroline Levitt also had a fire repress
conference yesterday. We'll bring you some of the best moments
from that. Zora Mamdani is being a crazy commie. Tom
Homan is saying the Biden administration it wasn't bad enough
(04:01):
for them to let ten million illegals flood the country. Clay.
They also said, you know what, let's just take in
all these Afghans and not vet them at all. Basically,
you raise your hand and say, hey, I did great
things for America. You owe me. Okay, we'll take you. Hmm.
Not a good idea. Not a good idea. But let's
talk first about the drug boat situation.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Here, Clay.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Now they're they're making a thing of this, and we've
discussed this. They really have wanted to take Secretary Hegseeth
off of the chess board from the very beginning. I
think the media has gone after Trump. Would would you
co sign this one. In term two, Pete has been
targeted number two after Trump. Trump's always target number one.
(04:45):
I think that's accurate.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I think Cash Patel has moved now number through the
number three spot on the attack list, and I think
we've kind of stayed in that range. I think there
would be probably a big off. I mean, Ewon obviously
was not in the cabinet, but he was probably the
most attacked in the first six months or so of Trump.
(05:08):
But in the cabinet, I think heg Seth's one. I
think that then Cash Bettel is two, and I would
you agree with me, there's a huge drop off after
those two. I don't even know who the third biggest
target would be. It's been like just kind of alternating
between heg Seth and with Cash.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
They have been trying to go after David Sachs as
well lately. The Crypto and Ais are who we would
like to get on this program soon to talk about
what he's doing. But he's a very savvy cat and
has been not only able to defend himself very effectively
without having to do very much because a lot of
(05:47):
the stuff that they're saying is just not true. Other
people have been coming to his defense as well, saying
he's in this position of he has so much money,
money has very little meeting for him. He actually thinks
that he's helping the country and that's why he's in
this special advisory role, special employee to the administration. But
we can get more into that too. But they wanted
they want hag Seth out, They want to be able
(06:09):
to show the Democrat base, Hey, we can still call
the shots in the media. We can still get a scalp,
so to speak. And so this is where we're talking about,
not just the boat strikes, which I'm going to tell
you right now, Clay. They're going to impeach Trump over
this if they win the House. All right, I do
you have any doubt whatsoever about that.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
They're going to be over this specifically, they're going to
impeach him, probably over whatever. I mean, they're going to
find something to impeach him over. We agree one hundred
percent that they will impeach him for a third time
for still impeach if they win the House.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I think this is I think this is top of
the list, and that's why they're so dug in on this.
I believe it. They're going to try to make the
case that that these are war crimes. That's exactly, and
they're already saying it, so it's that's not a stretch
at all. But they also want to use it to
it as a cudgel to force Secretary of warhag Seth
(07:04):
out of office. Here is I mean, for example, for example,
here is former Deputy Assistant ag This is cut eight. John,
wait before we played the cut. So the claim Clay,
so we're clear on this is that Pete, let's call
on Pete. Sometimes we know oversaw and was watching in
(07:26):
real time a strike on the first of these boats,
and that they hit the boat, you know, jaysack blew
this boat up, and then there was wreckage. There was
you know, pieces of it, and there were a couple
of guys who were clinging to the wreckage. And then
the order that the affmative order was given to send
a second missile strike to kill the guys who were
clinging to the records. That's the claim. This is disputed.
(07:50):
Here is though, what it's being said by people in
the media now about this play eight.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
If you look at the US Law of warm Manual,
which is the definitive interpretation of the way we fight.
The laws of armed conflict for the United States, it
says clearly that you are not allowed to give orders
that say no survivors. Commanders are not allowed to give
ors say no quarter, and so hagg Seth can't give
that command legally. Also, again there are gray errors, but
(08:16):
on one area that's not gray that's clear is you
can't fire on the wounded. You can't kill survivors who
can no longer fight. So the admiral should not have
obeyed the order that Secretary Hegseth gave, and even the
soldiers who carried out the admiral's orders should not have obeyed.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Clay. Lawyer Clay work us through this a bit.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Okay, So Warrior Clay, let me first say, I obviously
don't have firsthand knowledge, but if I were making a
case here, there are several angles that I think would
be in play. Let me start with defending the decision.
If this were what happened from them, I think they
can say this wasn't a set can strike to kill survivors.
(09:01):
The boat was still operable, and we were concerned that
we hadn't fulfilled the original mission. Right, You can hit
a boat or a vehicle multiple times if you do
not believe you have actually rendered it to be anoperable.
In other words, I think there's probably a defense that, hey,
the first strike did not do the complete damage that
(09:23):
was necessary. We did a second strike on top of it.
I also think that there is potentially an issue here
where if there are prisoners taken, then there is going
to be a legal challenge to whether the president has
the authority to undertake these actions, and do we then
(09:46):
have an obligation to go rescue the survivors all these
other different things. I think that could be in play.
But again, what are the facts, What were the exact orders,
What was the intent of the order? Remember, there are
all sorts of issues out there where we have an
attack that is ordered and it's the wrong attack, right.
(10:09):
We talked about this on the program before. In Afghanistan,
we killed an innocent family. We thought the guy was
a terrorist that obviously got a decent amount of attention.
So there are errors of interpretation that occur on these
strikes too. I think it's very hard to know direct
intent right. Well, we have to know the facts here.
The facts are not agreed upon, and I would say.
(10:31):
One thing that has been established for a long time
by the Obama administration, among others, but the Obama administration
really accelerated it was the signature drone strikes where they
would hit a target based upon a series of factors
that were not one hundred percent and clearly not because
they did blow up women and children sometimes. And this
was going on in Pakistan, a country with which we
(10:53):
were not actually at war, and a country that we
were pretending publicly, at least for a long time in
the Obama years. Oh no, we're not doing drone strikes there.
That's classified.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
The New York Times was writing front page stories about it,
but the Obama administration, clay to avoid dealing with it
in public, would just say that there's you know, it's classified.
We're we're not talking about that. That was accepted by
all of the people who currently are sitting around angry
at the Trump administration or supposedly anger at Trump administration
for what's going on here. So we do know that
(11:25):
there are civilian casualties from strikes that are based on
presidential authority. That does happen, But as you pointed out,
it as accidental here. It would be to the point
made by John You. Now, John You, why do they
have John You making the rounds everybody? A little bit
of history if we all recall twenty years back or so,
he was the so called torture memo guy under the
Bush administration, so he was tied to enhanced interrogation techniques.
(11:49):
So what you have now is the media having former
Deputy Attorney General John You under Bush, a Republican, saying
if you give an order for no survivors, that that's
a war crime. And this is from the guy who
was like, we got to waterboard people. Sometimes you gotta
do what you gotta do.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And again all of this comes in rising tension with Venezuela.
Again we should mention also there's a cabinet meeting going
on right now. Trump is taking questions. We're monitoring it
in real time. As you said off the top, the
biggest part of this story is there is a report
that Trump has given Maduro and his family until Friday
(12:30):
to vacate the country or potentially we are going to
take him out and install a more democratic government in Venezuela,
which tons of people have a lot of opinions on.
I said yesterday on the program I stand by it.
I think that this can be akin to the strikes
(12:51):
that happened in Iran in that they are very strategic
and ultimately beneficial for the overall country. And we have
tons of you out there that are Venezuelan. I mean
Buck lives in Miami, which is filled with tons of
Venezuelan refugees. As we said yesterday on the program, Venezuela
has the largest deposit of oil, certainly in the Western Hemisphere,
(13:15):
and used to be a thriving country that was very,
very successful before the Maduro and that regime came into power.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Third richest country in the world after the United States
and Canada per capita at one point in recent memory.
So yeah, Venezuela should be doing great. It's not. Turns
out that communism ruins everything. Guys who could have known, well,
anybody who pays attention to history. We'll talk more about
this though, because I know, on the one hand we
(13:43):
hate commis. On the other hand, we also hate regime
change and rebuilding operations for other countries, and there are
people that are concerned that that may be something that
we face here sooner than later when it comes to Venezuela.
We'll discuss. Want to hear from you as well. Also,
if we have any Ventnezuelan refugees or Venezuelan Americans play
(14:04):
listening right now, if you want to weigh in on
this one, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts
on should we topple Maduro? Should we just keep the
pressure on? How involved should we be? What do you
think is going to happen here? No doubtkay, yes, no doubt. Indeed,
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of rather, if you believe the life of an unborn
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Speaker 4 (15:48):
Saving America, One thought at a time, Clay Travis and
Buck Sex to them. Find them on the free iHeartRadio
app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We're gonna
pull the audio because Secretary of War Pete Hegseth was
just talking about these attacks that have occurred on Venezuelan boats.
Let me read you this quote. They're not talking about
that right now. It appears the lutnik is talking right now.
(16:22):
I'm watching the press conference is be the cabinet meeting
is being carried live right now on Fox News. Here's
what the press secretary for the Department of War just said.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Buck.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
At the end of the day, the Secretary of says
Kingsley Cortes. At the end of the day, the Secretary
and the President are the ones directing these strikes, any
follow on strikes like those that were directed by Admiral
Batt Bradley. The Secretary one hundred percent agrees with Secretary
has been very clear in every statement we've released about
these strikes. They're presidentially directed. Chain of command functions as
(16:59):
it should. We make sure commanders on the ground their
positions are taken into account. They're able to tell us
make decisions if they see things that need to be flagged.
But at the end of the day, the Secretary and
the President are the ones directing these strikes any follow
on strikes like those which were directed by Admiral Bradley.
The Secretary one hundred percent agrees with. That is a
(17:21):
full quote shared by Mary Margaret Olahan, who works for
the Daily Wire at the White House, and that is
from the Department of Wars Press Secretary Kingsley Cortes. So Buck,
we will talk a bit more about this when we
come back, and we'll try to get that audio of
Secretary of War headset addressing that directly, which just happened
(17:43):
in the last couple of minutes. But we want to
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Speaker 1 (18:53):
All right, welcome back in here to Clay and Buck.
A lot of news happening in real time here, and
we are monitoring, we are bringing it to you. There's
a cabinet meeting underway right now. You got Trump, HeiG Seth, Duffy,
you got lut Nick. I mean, you've got all these
different top officials of the Trump administration who are weighing
(19:16):
in on a whole range of things. But we were
just talking about these strikes on these lethal strikes on
Narco terrorist boats in the Caribbean. Secretary of War Hegg
Seth addressed this just a moment ago. We wanted to
let you hear from him what's going on. Play thirty three, and.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Then it's getting after going after Narco terrats and designated
terrorist organizations in our own hemisphere. As I've said, I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Again, we've only just begun.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
Striking narco boats and putting Narco terraces at the bottom
of the ocean because they've been poisoning the American people.
And Joe Biden tried to approach it with kick loops,
allowed them to come across the border, cartels, takeover community,
twenty million people, hundreds of thousands of Americans poisoned, and
President Trump said, no, we're taking the gloves off.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
We're taking the fight.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
To these designated terror organizations.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And that's exactly what we're doing.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
So we're stopping the drugs, we're striking the boats, we're
defeating narco terrorists, and we're saying to you, may say
one thing that drugs coming in through the same by
seeing are down ninety one percent, and I don't know
who the nine percent is.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I'm not sure either.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
Circus down ninety one percent by seeing. We've had a
bit of a pause because it's hard to find boats
to strike right now, which is the entire point. Right
deterrence has to matter, not arrested, handover and then do
it again. The ricent repeat approach of previous administrations. This
is meant to get aft after that approach. And I
will just end by saying, as President Trump always has
(20:48):
our backs.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
We always have the back of our commanders who are making.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
Decisions in difficult situations, and we do in this case
and all these strikes. They're making judgment calls and ensuring
that they defend the American people think they are the
right things.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Will keep doing that, and we had their backs, which
presidents good year, Thank you very much so, Clay, that's
the latest. That was just moments ago from Secretary warhecks
A at this a cabinet meeting that they're holding. And
I would just say, first of all, isn't it amazing
when you just compare this This is a little bit
of a side note, but the transparency, the willingness to
(21:25):
face the media to discuss direct with the American people
what's going on in this administration, Compared to imagine if
it was just a random Tuesday and Joe Biden had
all this top people around unscripted just taking questions from
the press, Clay, it would not have happened as and
we all know why he had dementia. They were hiding him.
The whole thing was a scam. The whole Biden administration
was a scam, unfortunately, a scam on all the American people,
(21:45):
and the stuff that's gone on with the border as
well as the mass importation of fentandol was hugely and
dramatically worsened by the Biden scam. But Clay right now,
you know, there's a lot of different polling on this,
and you could try to the way they craft these questions.
I think by and large Republicans are supportive of strikes
(22:08):
on narco terrorist boats. Democrats obviously are not. That's not
a surprise at all, and they're hoping that they can
find a way to create a wedge within Trump supporters
on this issue. I don't think that's gonna happen. I
think the regime change issue in Venezuela is where things
get a little stickier for Maggot.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, I think that's all connected. I do wonder again,
if this is on video, they are going to continue
to kind of chip away at the overall story. And
I would imagine we've seen a lot of the video
attacks released on the ships. My surmisal would be that
(22:46):
the story will become the boat was still operable, there
were there was a possibility that the drugs would continue
to be you know, conduited on that boat, and so
we ordered to second strike to end the feasibility of
the boat's ability to do the job that is trying
(23:06):
to do. That's my bet as to what the story
is going to be. In other words, they're gonna say
the physical structure itself was targeted for a second strike,
not the potential survivors. But I do think this is
going to turn into a I do think it's going
to turn a story.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Now.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
This also, I think goes on some level to who
Democrats are going to bat for. Remember our good buddy
kill maar A Breo Garcia, who they initially attempted to
make the face of Trump's deportation policy Maryland, Dad kill
a Breo Garcia. That story has vanished because I think
(23:48):
they recognize, Yeah, this is not really the focal point
of a face to make people disagree with the policy.
I don't think Narco tears and boats are going to
be particularly sympathetic plainiffs. And when I use that for
a sympathetic plaintiffs, anybody out there who is a defense
(24:11):
attorney has experienced this. When you file a lawsuit, you
want to tell the best story of your lawsuit, frequently
involving moms.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Ever, notice how kids who file lawsuits are always honorable students,
you know, like, oh, this poor, honorable student was just
disrespected in a visual era. Isn't it amazing how often
pretty girls are you were talking about this, This NYU
student who became a victim, was attacked on the streets
(24:45):
in New York City. It's become a story, these captivating
stories because they're young, innocent, attractive people. They grab attention
in a way that is that is captivating to many
different people out there in the media. I mean, you
can say, remember the Idaho killers, those young innocent kids
(25:07):
Moscow are Moscow rather Moscow outside of the University of Idaho,
Lake and Riley. I think one reason that it cuts
through the noise. She's a young innocent college nursing student
who is murdered by an illegal immigrant. I think that
it's hard to make people think, you know, I'm really
concerned about narco terrorists. So I think the challenge cutting
(25:32):
through this noise is and it goes both ways, right
when you come to these stories, because right now they're
trying to make a story. Oh, look at this nineteen
year old college student who was deported. Oh she can
you believe this is happening. They're trying to find a
story that is captivating young innocent people. Most people, I
don't think see Narco boat captain pilots and their staff
(25:56):
that are trying to smuggle drugs into the country as
perticularly sympathetic plants. So I think that factors in here
into how the media is going to be able to
cover it.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I'm sure the administration is more than a little bit
aware of this, But to your point Clay about the
public's perception of these strikes and how they're going. As
long as we're getting Narco terrorists, I think the administra
and we're certain of this. I think the administration is
going to certainly have support of a lot of Republicans
in this. They just got to make sure they don't
(26:31):
pull a Biden administration with what we saw in Afghanistan
where they blew up. If I remember a dad and
seven kids in a cause right that they said was
a suicide bomber's vehicle, and it was not seven children
they blew up, and that was after we lost marines
because of the haphazard and disastrous withdrawal of the Biden administration.
So we took losses, We lost our marines to enemy
(26:54):
to an enemy attack, and then we blew up a
car full of children because the Biden administration was so
frantic to look like they had some idea of what
they were doing in response to us losing some of
our marines in that earlier suicide bomber attack. So this
is this look, this is we're talking about a war
on narco terrorist. This is high stake stuff. And I
(27:17):
know that Secretary of War Heags Death is very focused
in on this right now.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's clearly a political or rather the Democrats see this
as a political opportunity to go after this administration. A
lot of people weighing in on this one, Clay. I mean,
here's Senator Chris Coon's Democrat obviously, who's trying to use
this as an attack.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Play cut five.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
This incident that was just covered by the Washington Post
in recent days suggests that a war crime may have
been committed, and I think Secretary Hegseeth likely gave the order.
I know Admiral Bradley, he's the SOCOM commander, he came
up through the ranks. He is decorated, He's experienced, he seasoned.
He was one of the first Americans into Afghanistan after
(28:04):
nine to eleven. I'd be very surprised if he did
this on his own without direct support or a command
from the secretary.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I'm why it's worth I think people hearing that's just play.
This is all about getting heagset. Yeah, this is a
get hegseth operation for the Democrats in the media.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Now, well, look, the intent is not to UH, is
not to make the country better. The intent is to
get headset. And I think that's the key here that
we hit on to start the show. Hegset is target one.
Target two right now is Cash Pttel, and they have
decided to focus all of their media attacks on that duo,
(28:42):
and frankly, most everybody else has been either ignored or unscathed.
You know, they tried probably Pambondi. I would say Buck
is probably third on that list. We were talking about
the target list, but I would say to a large extent,
the pam Bondi attacks, actually a lot of them came
from the right because of the ham handed way they
(29:02):
initially handled the Epstein when they brought the influencers out
and they had the briefing in the Epstein files and
everything else, So some of that fire on Bondi came
internally from the Republican Party. I think she's probably third
on the list of cabinet member attacks. But clearly heg
Seth from the moment he was nominated has been target one,
and Cash Pattel right now I think is target two.
(29:25):
I will tell you that Democrats, from what I understand Clay,
one of the reasons Bondi is not higher on their
list is they don't view her as as effective as
some of these other I'm just this is from a
Democrat perspective. They know that Pete can't handle the media,
isn't going to back down align with Trump.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
They know that Cash aligned with Trump, you know, isn't
going to back down for media pressure and is trying
reform or reform agenda there. I will say, we do
need to establish though, if we're gonna have people from
administration speaking on this issue, Okay, is it that the
boat was still we need to fact to be clear.
(30:04):
That's we need to be clear. That's because it's my argument.
I do think you have a very hard time if
you're if the argument is that this is a lethal
threat against the United States because they're designated narco terrorists
in a boat traveling to the US with fentil, that's
going to kill people. Okay, that's the argument. They're operating
under presidential authority. Once the boat is disabled, there is
(30:25):
no longer any chance of those drugs making it to
the homeland and there and these men are not in
the fight. They are bobbing around in the water. I
do not think you can follow up with finish them off.
I do not think that that is covered in the
laws of war, the Geneva Conventions or ethics. So there
just needs to be cleared because I'm seeing people say, yeah,
(30:46):
if we have to hit them again, we hit them again.
I think that's wrong. And if you if you want
to check how this went in World War Two, the
Nazis infamously and the U boat commanders would machine gun survivors,
including million off people in the US Navy British Navy
would machine gun them in the water. They were brought
up on war crimes for that. They were not able
(31:07):
to say, well, you could still swim and maybe make
it to shore and then you could get back in
the fight. So we do need to have some clarity
on where the limits are here, which is why my
argument is boat is the target. If I if I
am lawyer Clay.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Who is representing these individuals in a in an investigation,
and look again, this is where I come back to
what is on tape, what is on audio? What evidence
is out there?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We haven't seen it fully at least if you jump
on your on your on your lawyer Clay point there.
You know Clay from self defense perspective, and someone you
know who conceal carries here and does a fair amount
of shooting and spends time with the two a community
in South Florida. You always say stop the threat. You
say when you call in, if you have to defend
yourself with a firearm, you say, on the victim of
(31:53):
a crime, you know, here's my address company. You do
not say, Yeah, some guy came in. I shot him
and then he was making his way out of my house,
so I chased him on the front lawn. I put
two in the back of his head. You're going to
prison for a long time if you do that, as
you should. Yeah, that's you know what I mean. There's
there's a difference there are kicked his.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I kicked his gun away, and then I put my
gun up against his head and killed him. Like that's
not you know, at some point, when you eliminate the threat,
you're not allowed to continue to career.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
More So, I'm just gonna say that the facts to
what Clay was saying, the facts are now, or rather
the facts that are being put forward are. You know,
they did not do a follow up strike to finish
survivors off. That order was not given. This is what
the Pentagon is saying. That order was not given and
the boat may still have been, you know, capable of continuing.
That's why the second strike came. That all you could
argue thing legally. I do not think we want to
(32:45):
hear people from the pro Trump side of things saying
there were a couple of guys who had already been
hit with a missile, who were in the middle of
the ocean or middle of the Caribbean clinging to refuse,
and we hit him again. By the way, I don't
believe that that happened here. I think this is a
hit piece. I just want to be clear. But there
are people who are trying to say that that would
be lawful too, just because they're on the team, so
(33:08):
to speak. And I do not think that's a good
place to go because you're opening yourself up to the
other side saying your defense you would you would even
if a war crime wasn't committed, Clay, we can which
I don't believe it was, to be clear, we cannot
have pro Trump people argue in favor of a clear
war crime. That's not a good idea either, right, which
is why clarity on this I think is so important.
(33:31):
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eight ninety eight ninety eight. Patriots Radio hosts a couple of.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Regular guys, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Bock Sexton Show. We're going
to take a bunch of calls on this because a
lot of you have a variety of takes. Bobby in
Maine up first says he was in military intelligence. What's
your take on the Venezuelan boat strike story?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
So, Clay and Buck, here's the bottom line. This is
Bobby Charles I was in charge of all counter narcotics
in three zero four h five as the Assistant Secretary
of State, also ten years naval intelligence and an attorney.
The bottom line is what they are doing is well
within the law. A Number one, and I think Clay,
you probably or both of you know this. There is
a legal opinion somewhere justifying exactly what they're doing. Number two,
(35:27):
there would be no finish off order. Hegseeth was in
the military. He knows very well you can't do that.
But here are the two facts people don't know. The
United States government has long supported shootdown policies by foreign countries,
including Peru, in which we shot down any plane that
we had cued intelligence for, or we allowed them to
shoot down the plane if it was known to be
carrying narcotics and avoiding interception. The second thing is in
(35:50):
our latoral waters, legally all of our we have Coast
Guard Blackhawks up there, jayhawks that are fully armed, and
they have a sniper with a sling in the open
door in order to shoot out the engines of these boats.
So point number one the law. They are well within
the law when they take an enemy combat and designated
as a foreign terrorist organization that does not stop. They
(36:13):
have cute intelligence, they know they can hit it. They
hit it. They would be outside the law if they
did a finish off order for survivors. I guarantee you
they did not do that.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
So can I just say, I think that what you're saying, sir,
you have deep expertise in this. That's what we're I
think we're all in agreement here. That's that we're We
think it's lawful to do the strikes, but it wouldn't
be lawful to do a finish off order if the
guys were floating in the water.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
So heag sets was a military officer, he knows very
well what the orders are. He knows the UCMJ probably inside.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Out right, and I don't think he gave that order.
So again, I think we're all keep him, keep them,
Let's keep talking to this guy. We'll keep the conversation
going an hour two next
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