Best of the Bus: Charles Woodson On Winning Heisman Over Peyton Manning + Almost Retiring Early

Recorded: February 6th, 2024 | On this episode of Best of the Bus, The Boys were joined by NFL Hall of Famer — and arguably the greatest defensive player in college football history — Charles Woodson. The guys kicked things off by talking about Michigan winning the national championship, then dove into Charles’ legendary run at Michigan and the stories that came with it, including a few moments where he butted heads with coaches.

Of course, when you have the only defensive player to ever win the Heisman on the bus, The Boys had to relive that iconic moment and what it meant to him. After the college talk, the conversation shifted to his incredible NFL career with the Raiders and Packers. Charles shared stories from both stops, including the surprising moment he nearly hung up the cleats earlier than anyone knew.

This one was a true trip down memory lane — just talking ball with one of the best to ever do it.

Big hugs, tiny kisses.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Charles Woodson to the defensive goat. I mean, you are
one of the best of all time.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
It is an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
I appreciate that. Man. You guys are shaping up to
be best of all time too, Like what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Because we tried to get I remember I was I
was either we were on Twitter going back and forth
because she was a national one time. Yeah, I think,
trying to get you, but everything was way too tight.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
But man, trying to make it happen. But yeah, the
timing was off a little bit, but you know, we
did it.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Finally got it done.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Man.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
We obviously jumping to Michigan like for how many years?
How we just been shitty and now finally we put
it all together this year. Man, what did that mean
to you as an alumni?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Well, you know what what's crazy is that it wasn't
that we were shitty. We just couldn't beat them, guys.
We couldn't beat ohiose statement, Like that's really what it was.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Like.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
We think about you know, Jim when he came in
was winning nine ten games a year, but then we
get to that last game and we could never get
over that hump, you know. So when we think back
to Michigan and we see that we had a shitty year,
you know what I mean. And so these last couple
of years have just been like, dude, I don't even

(01:18):
know how to explain it. You know, it's just it's
it's not even that we won the game, it's how
we won the game.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
And with all the all the storyline out the year too.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, just that game.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
It's the season right, Penn State, the har ball getting
before the Penn State game as there travel and he's
getting told all while they're on the tarmac.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Literally and I was. I was at that game because
I was working with the big noon kickoff crew that weekend.
And we get there and they're like, yeah, I don't
know if Gym's gonna be able to coach today. We're like,
what are you talking about? Like, yeah, you know, he
was on the plane he got the word that he
might not be coaching, like on the plane, like literally
on the plane to Happy Valleys. You're talking about you

(01:56):
can't play, I mean, he can't coach. So it's a
lot of different storylines, you know, this particular season with
him putting people in place. Mike Hart was a coach
win game, head coach. This Shrone Moore, who's got the
job now, he was a coach for like three or
four games. And those guys, you know, just looking at

(02:18):
looking at that situation in the face and just being
like it don't matter.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
It's such a it's such a massive like statement to
the culture of Michigan because they had every excuse not
to achieve the goal of winning a national championship, right
and like you obviously you don't have to expand on
this at all, but how pussy was it of the
Big ten to dry to implement some sort of bullshit bandid, Hey,
we're gonna punish him Tony Patiti as they're flying to

(02:44):
Penn State and doing all that. That's just just.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Just bad ball.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
There's no due process there. And so but the thing
I like about it personally is that if there were
all these allegations and they never took hardball off the field,
then it'd be like the true asterisk to a national championship.
But because you put all the adversity on and off
the field towards the Michigan players right now, it's like
there's there's truly like it didn't matter with gotten their
way that they were winning a national championship.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, it truly was a Michigan versus everybody. You know,
the coin, the phrase that they coined, and also the
other one was bet. You know they had that. Uh,
I forget after which game it was, but it was
just to say, all right, you guys are gonna put
put all of this on our plate. Bet we'll handle it.
And that's exactly what they did. And you know, being

(03:29):
in Happy Valley and you know that being you know,
our toughest game at to that point on the schedule,
and then coming out in that second half and I
think they threw the ball one time and then from
there on it was like just old school Michigan football
for all half, like just just take this, take this,
take this. So yeah, it was. It was fun, man,

(03:51):
the whole the whole ride this year. Man, I mean,
you know, we were riding along with them, guys, man,
just on Cloud nine every week. And then when they
capped it off, I was able to go to the
semi final. Pasadena didn't make it to the championship game.
But watching that championship game and the way they performed
the domination, you know that that you know, what we
go back because you talked about the culture and that

(04:14):
was important with this team because of all of the
guys who said I'm coming back, I'm coming back because
we got unfinished business, and then they actually did it
like that was That's pretty special, man. So I'm happy
for them, guys.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
What's it like knowing that you guys brought that Michigan,
your guys university brought a national title in twenty twenty three,
and it's been since what like the nineteen forties, since
you guys last won a national title?

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Ninety seven? Man, Damn, yeah, I knew he did it
on purpose. I know what he did.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I know.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
That was good. That good. That's good. That's good. Okay,
I see, I see how it is, see how the
show is gonna be.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Taylor and I obviously we always go back and forth. Ye,
I mean, you guys have been whooping our ass for
a while.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
It's funny.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I had to get that in because it's always like
if I'm if I'm put up against Taylor Dave Poortnoy,
we go back and forth. If I try to throw Nebraska,
and it's like all nineteen ninety seven. Personally, I feel
like as a player. You like being the coaches pole
National Championship more than the AP national chair.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well man, you know when you guys got up there
and start crying, you know, after the season about you know,
our coaches leaving and man, we deserve it, were like,
what the hell is going on? Right? You know what
I mean? So you guys begged your way into that.
That was tough too.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
The coaches just like, I guess we'll just give it
to him then, like really, come.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
On, I mean we you know, Nebraska beat And it's
funny because Charles is like he's a he was a player,
he was on the Michigan team. Like we're like, I'm
just sitting here, like, oh we Nebraska, Yeah you're eight
yeah yeah old hey. But Nebraska beat Peyton Manning led Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Oh man, they did.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
They did average over forty a game. Fish can average
twenty something. However, they're defense. You guys.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
We were pretty mad about that too, because we go
out to you know, washingt this thing. We're like, all right,
you know, Tennessee, you know, give these boys a fight,
you know what I'm saying, because that's going to help
our calls if they roll down there and struggle and
Nebraska goes down there and slaps some boys.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's like, damn it, what's it like? Because you guys
had you guys played more like top ten teams that
you're like, oh, i'll say the Big ten, like back
in the nineties, Like you guys had more of those
teams in the top ten. But like, as a player,
are you kind of hoping you get dealt like I
don't remember how it worked with the bowl game selection
back then, but are you hoping you get like the
higher matchup or did you already kind of know you
were going to play the Pac twelve champion?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
There was a Pactorld Championship, so I think we were
a year before the BCS SOT. If it was a
year later, we would have had a chance to play.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
It would have been it would have been Nebraska.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
We'd have a chance to play in Nebraska, but were
just one year too early. Man. So yeah, we went
out and played the winner, the Pack twelve, and they played,
you know, Nebraska. So that's just where that's the way
it went.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
When you're when you're doing all the big new stuff
and it's your essentially your job, your obligation to be
as unbiased as possible, But all this stuff is like
going down. How do you catch yourself in Happy Valley thinking,
all right, Hardball's not on there, but you're on the sideline.
I think there's a clip of you and it might've
been Desmond Howard as well, like getting hyped up, like

(07:20):
are you like trying your best not to get excited?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
No, like our producers and you know everyone who brought
me in. You know at Fox, they know that when
it comes to Michigan, it is what it is like
when I'm on the set, I'm rootming for Michigan, I'm
on the sideline and room for Michigan. I'm going to
be biased as bias can get. So there's no secret.
But yeah, but when it comes when it comes down

(07:45):
to like really talking about the game, like keys the game,
how Michigan's Michigan, Michigan is going to win, on how
State's gonna win, I'll give the real but as it
you know, in terms of what my loyalties like, it
ain't no secret.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
You enjoy Cup in college more than the NFL because
I know he was doing NFL before you signed on
with with the NFL.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Is where it's at. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love the NFL.
Man college is too many damn teams in.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
College there as I feel like you, like I enjoy
the school spirit of college because you just know you're
pulling for your team no matter what versus the NFL.
Like playing on a few different teams, it's like it's
more of like a player driven Like I'm kind of
rude for guys and players, And yeah, I like to
see the Raiders, the Titans, Washington do well. But like
that the connection with your with your school spirit in college.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, it ain't nothing like it. It's nothing like it.
And uh, you know, I get asked that question like,
you know, you know why you why do you feel
the way you feel about Michigan? You know why you
love them so much? And I answered this question not
too long ago, and I think it's like for me,
it was the first place I was trying to get to,
you know what I'm saying, being a being a high
school athlete and you know, you're getting out of all

(08:53):
of these letters and you know you're you're working towards,
you know, trying to do something bigger than playing in
high school, like Michigan was like I'm trying to get there.
You know what I mean, and it was a dream
come true to you know, sign there and go to
Michigan and so you know that that that love of
you know, you know, trying to get to a destination

(09:14):
and reaching it. You know, it was was a big deal.
So you know that's why it runs deep.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, you had a really good interview on the pivot
and I'm trying to recall. Can you tell the story
about there was a game where coach held you out
and You're like, I'm not going to go in and
say sorry, and then your mom's your mom say, hey,
if you're not going to apologize yourself, do it for me.
Can you retell that story? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (09:35):
It was. It was. It was just crazy because my
you know, we had played uh, I think I forget
the game we played before Ohio State. But anyway, I
had my back locked up for whatever reason, and I
talked to the trainer. I'm like, hey, man, my back
is locked up. I don't know why I can. I

(09:56):
can barely move. He's like, oh, I don't worry about it.
You don't have to practice today, and so I was like, great,
But when I walk out to practice, I don't have
any Michigan issue stuff on I just got my school
stuff on. The coach cars like what are you doing?
I'm like what. He's like, what, where's where's your uniform?
I'm like, ah, man, I talked to Smitty Smitty side
and had to practice today. It was like, I don't

(10:18):
get in there and put something on then, So I
go in and put some other stuff on, but I
keep my white shoes on that warder school. What do
you got on your feet? I'm like, what, man, get
in there?

Speaker 1 (10:30):
And when you went back in, like, are you feeling like, oh,
coach is trying me a little bit?

Speaker 2 (10:35):
A little bit? Yeah, a little bit. But then this
was ninety six, so a week before Ohio State gaming.
So I came back out and then I'm on the
sideline and talking with some of the fellas and coach
he sings me, Hey, come here, go over there to
the offense. Hey, you need to pay attention. I'm like, Coach,
I'm paying attention, Like what's going on? Man, Well, if

(10:55):
you're going to be on the sideline, you're not practicing,
you need to pay attention. I'm like all right, So
I walk on the sideline. Few periods go by, he
cast me back over there. What's it get over here.
I'm like, damn, what is going on today? Man? Go
over there. Hey, if you're not going to pay attention,
you can just leave. And I was like, all right,
I'm out. So I left. I went back to the
I went back to the dorm, and a little time passed,

(11:19):
day or two, I don't know. I can't remember the
timeline of that. But I get called down by my position,
coach Vans Bedford. He's like, hey, listen, coach wants to
talk to you. When you go down there, just go
ahead and apologize, and then he's gonna let you play
this week. And I was like, Coach, now, I'm not apologizing.
He's like, listen to me, just apologizing. So I go
down there. Me and coach talked a little while and

(11:42):
he's like, a, you know, do you think you justified
yourself by walking out of practice. I was like, yeah, man,
because I don't feel like you got to make an
example out of me and this whole thing. He was like,
all right, well you ain't playing this week. I was
like all right. I got up and walked out, went
down there to back to Coach Bedford's room, and he
was like, all right, what do you say. I said,
I'm not playing this week. He said, boy, I told you,

(12:02):
don't go down there and say nothing, but just apologize.
Hold on a minute. He gets on the phone. My
mom answers MS Woodson. I told this boy, don't go
down there and say nothing. He called my mom. Man
and uh, Mama gets on the phone. What's going on.
I'm like, I'm not playing this week. She was like why.
I was like, man, you know, me and coach got

(12:24):
into it and this or that, and coach wants me
to apologize. I ain't apologize. She was like, okay, well
we'll just do this. If you're not going to apologize
for yourself, apologize for me. And I was like, kidding,
she broke me. So she broke it. So man, I

(12:44):
had to be you talk about being to knee, I
had to bend to knee man, moms mom's And so
I went down there and I was like, coach, man,
you know it's my bad man. You know, I'm sorry.
I shouldn't have walked out a practice. And that's all
he wanted. He was like, all right, playing this week,
so you should you should have You should have saw

(13:08):
how slow I walked down.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
I bet I brought up you brought up Schmidty who
is Michigan Like, yeah, the head trainer for the longest time.
He's the guy that like, you get an X ray,
what the X ray say?

Speaker 1 (13:22):
X rays?

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Don't talk?

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Friend, keep wanting yeah, smart, smart, smitty.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
And then Big John Big Do you have any Big
John stories because I'll preface one real quick. So obviously
I was in the dark ages of Michigan with rich
Rodriguez and Bratty. No disrespect to them, it was just
that time that the alumb would come by and hey,
y'all suck, and.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
That's just what it is. Tough always having the guys
in the nineties, like we had that too, where guys
you guys aren't well, we had when we.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Were at the Hot State game this year, some guys
came up and we were talking, Hey, what years were
you there again? I was like, oh, nine to thirteen.
You're like, oh, yeah, that's that's a tough time. But
when rich Rodriguez, I'll bring in that when Richard Heez
first got the job, there's a story that Big John
would go and at like five in the morning and
get on the elliptical in the weight room, but naked nothing,
and he was like a sloppy body cat. Yeah, he

(14:11):
was just naked on the elliptical, sweat and dripping everywhere,
all over the place. And he was just and like
the most fun way of crude, like over the top,
like kind of just a horny old guy.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
But he was like.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
That being said, Yeah, I don't, I don't, Yeah I don't.
I don't have the stories, like some of my teammates
have more in depth stories of Johnny, but Johnny was big.
John was kind of like, uh, like family guy, you
know what I'm saying, Like just inappropriately funny guy. You

(14:46):
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
He always got one.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
For everybody watching, the most innocent fun way the soil Johnny.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
What he did, he said, what he did? You know?
So yeah, he was he was. He was that guy man,
but he he was a great guy. But yeah, it
was a lot, a lot of stories, A lot of stories,
big guys, A lot of stories. I can't I can't
tell you.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, what what is it like? I know you've probably
been asking so much, but what was it like winning
the Heisman over Peyton Manning? I mean, and two it's
like it's Peyton Manning, you know, quarterbacks who it was
also Ryan Lee, Randy Moss, but the quarterback Peyton Manning's
got the complexion for the protection and you end up

(15:28):
winning the Heisman like being a two way player. What
was that like when you won that? Yeah? It was.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
What's crazy is that we got three three first ballot
Hall of famers on there, Me, Peyton and Randy and
then at the time, you know, yeah, you got Ryan
Leaf there, who everybody thought, Man, he's gonna be the guy.
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, with him and Peyton
coming out, a lot of people had Ryan Leaf ahead
of him. But the thing about it is that, you know,

(15:57):
I thought throughout the season, I thought I'll played myself
into a position where people recognize who I was as
a player, and I thought I was the best player.
But I didn't think I was going to win the Heisman.
Like there was no way, you know, I was going
to win the Heisman overpaid man. It just wasn't It
wasn't going to happen. You know, the whole season coming in,
I think he had came back for his senior year

(16:21):
a year so you know, that was that was really
all of the talk, you.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Know, to finish business.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
You hate man. He came back for us, you know,
his senior year, Like wow, what he's doing for the university.
He is coming back for his guys, and he's coming
back to win the Heisman Trophy. Like that was a
foregone conclusion. And so you know, season carried on. And
what was great is watching the thirty for thirty that
they just had came out and because a lot of
stuff you don't you don't remember, but they had that

(16:49):
that little ranking each week of who was ahead, like
you had Payton and then it was ship There was
a running back I saw, maybe it was Tavan Banks
or something, the Tavan and then like I was down
here at the bottom, and then I might move up,
and then Peyton may move down, and then this guy
may move up. So it was really interesting how it
kind of played out throughout the year. And then when

(17:09):
Michigan State happened and the one hand catch happened, then
I kind of stayed steady in a certain place, and
then Penn State happened. Playing both ways called a called
a touchdown. Past that game, I'm playing against Juror Vicious,
and I remember they asked me before that game, you know,
did I think before or after did I think I

(17:29):
was the best player in the country. I was like, yeah,
I'm the best player of the country, but still not
thinking they're gonna you know, I'm not winning put over. Yeah,
not gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
There's such a such a like a focused position driving numbers,
like it's.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
A numbers game. It's a numbers game, you know, and
so and then how state happens and then here comes
you know, the ceremony, and it's like I'm there in
New York to have a good time hanging out with Randy,
hanging out with all the guys, and just this is
this is a cool experience. And then you know Rudy,
Rudy risk I believe it was opens an envelope and

(18:04):
it's like from Michigan. Oh man, it was like my
whole body just went limp. And if you watch it,
you see Randy on the side, He's like get up.
So he nudged me. I'm like, damn, I just would.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
What was the highest you got on the list like
throughout the year to where maybe you had an inkling
like maybe there's a dot.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I think I think I got up. I think I
got up to one. I believe and but it kind
of it just rotated, so it's one and two, right,
maybe three then two than one. So it was it
was kind of cool, you know, to to see some
of the footage because, like I said, a lot of
that stuff, man, it's a long time ago for me,
but a lot of stuff you don't. You don't remember

(18:46):
interviews that you did, you know, certain things other people said.
So yeah, man, it was cool to relive that.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
People don't talk about this. But like, you win the Heisman,
obviously it's such a surreal moment. Your blood's pumping, Like
how stressful, nervous for your giving the speech, accepting.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Your I didn't have Yeah, I didn't have nothing. I
had nothing. Yeah, I had nothing.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Thank you family. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Probably without the footage, you probably doesn't even remember, like.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Well, I remember, you know, getting up and of course,
you know, thanking my mom and then and then I
know I probably did I made some reference to somebody
else who I thought should have won it but didn't
win it, and then finally they got it right or
something something crazy like that. But I didn't. I didn't
have a speech because I was like, like I said,
I'm here to just enjoy this moment.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
And write nothing down.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
It is kind of it's.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Kind of a bad look. Not a bad look, but
when they pull out.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I don't like to do that.
Just as a general rule, I don't like to read
from anything. If I if I'm talking, I just like
to talk. But yeah, I went there, man, just.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Nothing, ma'am you When you think about like the colleg
football landscaping now on all the nil stuff, how would
you had to be going crazy? You'd have put you
would have been. I mean, you've been a seven figure cat.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
I got, I got, I got one year.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Left you trying to get out. I got year the bench,
but I make seven figures plays.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
How many players you think you give to a college
game in college? Right right now?

Speaker 2 (20:25):
If you play college, I'll run that ship right now.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
So you don't think you'd be blowing a hand me
out there?

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Hey, listen, told you got a little as that beer.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
A little bit, A little bit. I believe I still
run around a little bit. I still get after it. Yeah,
I give hey, I get I give him some work
out there straight up.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
In college's playing corner.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Oh yeah, I could play anything anything.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
He'd be like, uh, Travis Hunter, I'd be like him.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, he truly plays both the ways. I think that
is like one hundred and thirty plus plays again, like crazy,
I tell people like I like dibbled and dabbled on offense.
I didn't play a whole lot offense. It just seems
like he plays of defense. Like literally, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
When you don't come off the field, right, Yeah, that's
where do you think he's better suited on offense or defense?

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Oh? Man, I think receiver. I think he's a nasty receiver.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
I mean he's a good corner'll get me wrong, but
I see it's his his offensive skills. Man, I think
it's offensive skills dominate over his defensive skills.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
What's interesting too, is like your story back when you
were you know, with your mom and coach and like
not playing like situations like that. I feel like these days,
like you could just if you're upset, you could just bounce.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Quick yea yeah, and not have any any repercussions. Like
it used to be where if you went to another
D one school you had to sit out a whole year.
And so now it's like what coach, Oh, I don't worry,
but I won't be here tomorrow you can just leave.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Do you think if.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
You when you were a freshman ad mission that, like,
was there any time of time if there was an
opportunity to go on the transferport that you might mind.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Well, at that time we talked about with Coach car
So when I went back to my dorm room, it
was funny because we had a couple of guys who
visited the University of Miami.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Were you in West Quad?

Speaker 2 (22:16):
I was in I was in West Squad. Yeah, And
so after practice, a couple of guys, my boys, Man,
what happened? I was like, Man, I don't know, man,
coach tripping? Man, I said, Man, I'm out of here. Man.
It was like what I said, Man, fuck this, Man,
I'm going to Miami. Man, I'm transferred out here. I
don't want to be here. Man, were going too, we Man,
let's do it serious. So we had like a little

(22:38):
mutiny going on for like twenty four hours.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Like Man, I'm leaving. But uh, but I think that's
probably how it happens, you know, with a lot of guys.
You know, you have an altercation with a coach and
you go back to the room and there's nobody to
talk you down from that ledge and you're like, shum out,
I don't I don't got to deal with this. And
nowadays it's easier than ever to say I don't want
to deal with it.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
It makes it so much more difficult to keep accountability
in a locker room that's so important in football together.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
And that's what that's what hard, what what Michigan did
with and and the reason why I feel like they
want and we're so dominant is because they really had
grown men out there. You know what I'm saying. We
got a bunch of you know, junior seniors guys who
came back. And so if you look at what you know,
how a state is doing right now, they're they're trying
to you know, buy all these players, trying to get
all this this this quick fix. It's hard to it's

(23:32):
hard to build it that way, you know what I'm saying.
If you if you're trying to do that every year,
like you got to have you know, kind of a
nucleus of guys that are coming back and you can
build a program with. So it's gonna get harder and harder,
and you know for coaches to kind of maintain that
because there used to be truly like a loyalty to school.

(23:53):
Now it's just a loyalty to you and what you
can get, you know, trying to get the most out
of it for yourself. So so it's gonna be hard
for coaches.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
That's an interesting thing, is like having loyalty to yourself
and your school even when you play. When we play
like that was still there, like you still wanted to
benefit yourself playing well and the team doing well is
you know at the same time. But now it's like
it's wild west. And with Ohio State the way they're
setting up this year, they're spending so much money in
an IL and bringing these guys in there. If they

(24:22):
don't essentially if they don't win the national championship, it's
it's right.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, So that's that's the That's definitely the type of
pressure that you put on yourself. If you say, all right,
I got the best guy out from here, the best
guy from here, best guy from here, and then you
get them all together and it doesn't work. It's like,
you know, people start looking at you real crazy, yeah,
and you like, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I was just gonna know if you got more in college,
I was going to start to dabble in the NFL world, but.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
A couple more things on college just this year. Sean
More obviously, like I'm a massive Sean More fan. I
think he deserved that job. They made the right Yeah
he is. He's the dude for for the university should
he lost a lot of players, like eighteen dudes gonna
get drafted, and then coaching staff and lost the DC
lost the string coach, which I think is like the
most devastating loss. Like herb with the opportunity to go

(25:09):
there and meet and talk at him.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
He was kind of going starting the conditioning, Oh man,
it's my guy. Man.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, evaluates tips, knees, everything in the grading scale they
put everybody on. Like you walk away from that being like, damn,
I wish he was. Yeah, I was playing because it
was like a guy like this is a dude you
have for all of college and then in the off
season you're backing in arbor.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
What.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
I took my son up to a little two day
camp they had up there, and he just had a
you know, certain easy way that that he does pull ups. Ship.
I went back home and I was doing him that way.
You know what I'm saying, that's the kind of guy
he was. Man.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
So, yeah, what's like like like most reasonable expectation for
the University of Michigan in twenty twenty four season.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
I think it's gonna be tough. You know, looking at
the schedule I was looking at the other day. We
got Texas coming in the second game.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Schedule to the USC right l A State, Ohio State
got Oregon tail.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, and and you know, you just look at the Texas.
They have their guy, their quarterbacks coming back, you know
what I mean. So they have you know, what we
have is a lot of guys leaving. Our quarterback leaves.
You got a Texas team that just was in the
playoffs as well, they're still building building on that and
still have a lot of things in place. And then
they got their quarterback coming back. So I think it'll

(26:26):
it'll be it'll be tough sledding for him, just because
he's really rebuilding it. Like you said, there's nothing. I
don't think anything hurts some more than losing staff, losing
guys that were in there in place, you know, losing
uh being strength and conditioning coach, You lose your defensive coordinator.
You know, he's gone, uh, A few other guys have

(26:47):
have left as well. I think Jim's uh is it
jim Son that's on the on the staff that he
just left.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
I don't know you would assume you're taking a couple
offensive guys.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, so a lot of guys left, man, So I
don't know it'd be it'll be interesting, but it's gonna
be a it's gonna be a tough slip to slip.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
The uh and Arbor best place to go eat college kid.
I got the place in my head right now, but
I don't want to start well, I mean, n I
l no, no, no, no, no no. We're talking those little chips,
like those little coupons that.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Are like to well for me.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
For me, it was cottage in cottage and did.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Hit Yeah, I don't think. I don't think.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
We it's a little pizza spot. Did you guys get
the little pieces of paper the chips?

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Fifteen bucks on ours?

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah see ours? Was you got like two medium pizzas
and like a soda or something like that. You go
smack one of those things barbecue. It was nice. We
are this podcast is mister spots.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Mister spots. Yeah, like mister Spots. But me, but me,
I was, I was it was pizza for me. Man. Yeah,
and cottage In they had they had the they had
the best pizza. And I always felt like cottage In
was out of all the places that we could get. So,
you know, he had mister spots, you had cottage In,
and we only had like four different places you can

(28:02):
go from. Like that one to me was like the most,
Like I felt like I was really doing something if
I went into college Cottagein and got something, you know
what I'm saying. The restaurant. Yeah, yeah, it was like, yeah,
you know, I felt like I was doing something, you
know what I mean? So cottage In was that deal.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Last last college go to the NFL Top five players
University of Michigan history, but not like obviously, like the
argument here would be Tom Brady. Would Tom Brady be
a top five Michigan football player?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Not a Michigan right right, right right?

Speaker 3 (28:33):
But you have one, so you don't have to do
it yourself.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
I got to put myself in there. Yeah, well we could.
I put myself in. Can I put myself in an
offense and defense and I can be.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
Like that?

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Oh man, that's that's pretty tough. I'm gonna say. Uh.
Desmond i'd have to go Anthony Carter. Mmmm, that's tough.

(29:16):
Let's get my man hutch in there, Steve Hutchison.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Mm hmmm, that sneaky with one maybe Jake Long.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Okay, so I got two receivers in right now, because
I've already smoked with that mold and I got to
Oh so that would be two offensive tackles, no choice
in the guard.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
But also Blake Horn.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, because you got some recent guys in there, Let's
put Blake in there. Let's put Blake in there for
what he did, uh these last couple of seasons. And
he's rocking the deuce out there too. Let's do that.
So that's that's fine, right, that's fine. Okay.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
The tough question it was helped me out. Was Blake's
stats overall better than heart?

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Oh? Yes, I just remember the touchdown wise for sure,
I think because he got a bunch of touchdowns.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
By any Michigan players.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, yeah, and he.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Like I think he blew it up. I don't think
he blew it out. I think he be about one
or two.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, but did it.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
With only like three years starting as opposed to that
Anthony Thomas, Yeah, he was at like fifty five four
year starter and he got like fifty seven.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Six Mike did.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
It was real?

Speaker 2 (30:39):
What the what the core? All right? Yeah? But the
thing is, even even though you have the all the
yards and stuff, it's still about impact too. Yeah, Like
his impact on the team is one of those things
that you know, it might not be top five and

(31:00):
Russian or whatever, but his impact on coming back, you
know what I'm saying. And then his impact just just
his presence on the field. Man, So like my man, Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Don't even I mean, you had such an incredible NFL
career as well, it's kind of like hard to focus
on something or start somewhere. But I am curious, Like
you're one of the greatest Raiders of all time, and
then you had that stint in Green Bay where you
played a lot of good ball, and then you come
back to Oakland like when you were in a hit
free agency, like you were somebody who were friend you
were franchise tagged, right yep, So like was there when

(31:34):
you left Oakland the first time? Was there like bitterness
with the organization when going to Green Bay? Like because
you obviously came back around to Oakland, but being such
a great player for them when they kind of like,
let you go elsewhere. Was there like any resentment? Was
there any bitterness of the business per se?

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, kind of because I never thought that I would
leave Oakland, and the bitterness was more so with you know,
like the GM at the time, so not necessarily just Raiders.
It was just the GM, you know, And I think
at that time, you know, you know, they you know,
told my agents or something something that there was you know,

(32:14):
no value to bringing me back to the Raiders, and
that was coming from from that side, and so it
was like, you know what I'm saying, what are you
talking about? So, yeah, it was it was a little
bit bitterness in that regard. But I was also like
I said, I didn't think I would leave there. But
then it was I've got franchise tagged, so I was free,

(32:36):
so I could go anywhere. So I thought that, you know,
I was going to have my my picket or litter
you know, anywhere I wanted to go. You know, I
was gonna be able to go. And it, man, it
was it was dry as this hear out there, you
know what I mean, Yeah, it was. It was kind
of crazy. And so you know, I went in thinking
one thing, and then my experience wasn't all that great,

(32:58):
you know. And so through the process, green Bay began
to call my agents and and you know, wanted to
bring me in, and you know, I was reluctant. I
was like, nah, you know, I'm not going to Green Bay.
So there was no really no really no reason for
me to visit there and so called again. And when
everything was really like quiet from from everyone else, you know,

(33:21):
I had my agent reaching out to other people and
nobody was biting. So I was like, all right, well,
let me go to Green Bay because we got to
at least try to draw some interest from I'll go there.
Maybe somebody else will be like, all right, well some
other people are checking form. Man. It was it was crazy, yo.
But if green Bay didn't want me, I don't. I
really don't know where where I would have played in

(33:43):
two thousand and six. It really, yeah, really.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Why do you think it was so dry? Like the
free agency market?

Speaker 2 (33:49):
There were you know, just there was a lot of
a lot of things out there. One I had I
did come off an injury. I broke my leg in
two thousand and five, so I missed the final ten
games of the season and then people talked about my
attitude and talked about you know, just a lot of
different different things and so, and I think some of

(34:10):
that came from the raider side as well, just you know,
putting some stuff out there conversation, you know, right right,
right right. Because because Mike McCarthy asked when I first
met with Mike, because it was his first I think
it was his first year, was my first year, he
asked me about it in our meeting. He was like, oh,
what is this about you, you know, being a bad
bad team guy, bad locker room guy. And I was like, what, Like, man,

(34:34):
you can't talk to any players I played with that's
say I'm a I'm a bad locker room guy. So
I don't know where that's coming from. So there was
some things being you know put out there. Uh that
muddy the water and so yeah, it was just it
was a it was a little tough, tough period man
to kind of go through as a guy who I
had done everything, you know. Oh yeah, so I'm like, damn,

(34:55):
that's how they that's how they really feel.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, did you did you have any more moments that
you felt like they were defining you by that you
might have had lower moments while being on the Raiders
that allowed them to say, what's this about you being
a bad team guy?

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Oh? Yeah, I mean I had some asshole in me.
I ain't gonna say that. Yeah, But but in terms
of you know, player and you know, uh, guys in
the locker room. Nah, it wouldn't have it wouldn't have
been from that. But yeah, I mean I had my
I have my my issues with coaches at times. You know,

(35:33):
I like to hang out, do my thing, you know
what I'm saying, outside of playing football. So you know,
maybe that could have had something to do with it.
Who knows, But in terms of being able to play
the game, and you know, just overall, you know, good dude,
I'm a good dude, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Can you speak to like your development in the the
film room, because obviously, like you're a guy, you were,
you were an All American coming out, Heisman Trophy winner,
top five pick, like you have all the accolades, right,
Like it's like, oh, he's the most He's just so talented.
He's super talented. But I'm also fortunate enough to play
with Will Blackman for a couple of years. And when
Will and I we'd have our sushi knights and stuff,

(36:11):
but he would talk about you as somebody who's always
like a last in the building, and he would learn
a lot of his study habits from you. You feel
like you had those throughout your entire career. You developed
him as you got older, because he always said the
best things about you. I feel like something like that,
like being a student of the game, kind of gets
slept on when you're somebody who has all the accolades.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
In the world. Yeah, I think it compounds over time
because you do start out, you know, like myself, I
was a great athlete, so a lot of stuff's going
to come easy, you know, so you don't necessarily have
to spend as much time looking at certain things. But
the one thing that I've always had as a player
was I've had great play recall, you know what I mean.

(36:51):
So when you're out there on the field and you
see certain things, you start to pick up on tendencies
like I always had that without necessarily having to look
at film. And so then you know, as your career
goes on, you take different different methods from different coaches
like Vance Befford, Like I remember, you know, just going
back to a certain play. We played Northwestern my junior

(37:14):
year and it was a third and long situation and
me and him had went over what they liked to
do in that situation and they ran out and I
picked that out off. So different things you pick up
from different coaches. Chuck Burgano was another guy who worked
on me on third down as well, you know, being
around him, I learned a lot on third down tendencies,
you know that being money down and so over time,

(37:38):
then you start developing your own style of how you
like to see things. And so for me, like I said,
I always had, you know, good play. Recall what I
would start to do in my studies. I would start
to watch the game from the opposing team's one yard
line all the way to the one yard line, but
then the same personnel. So I wanted to see from

(38:00):
the one to the one, same person I want to
see it in all parts of the field because you'll
run certain things from first to five, first to ten,
ten to twenty twenty to forty forty to twenty twenty two.
You know what I'm saying, and a lot of it
mirrors what you do from here to here, you know
what I mean. So like you take a wheel for example.
You know, I would have my film broken up certain ways,

(38:23):
and then I would tell those guys, this is how
I like to look at the film. And so we would,
you know, when we'd have our times together in our
film room, we would look at the film and then
we start going over these things. When and when I
would see something that would kind of they may get
to it a different way, but it's the same thing.
Would I would go back to it, all right, Now
watch this. Watch how this team lines up on this
plane runs it. Now watch them motion to it and

(38:45):
run it. But it's the same thing, you know. So
I was always taught it's not how you line up,
it's how you wind up. So those are the things
that I was able to, you know, pass along to
those guys. And for me, it's just over time, it
was I got gradually even better at it.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
You know, you found like another way to prepare them
be like, okay, added to your game and that that
fires me up as a defensive guy. That's that's that's
football porn right there.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
It seems like you had a good way of simplifying
things exactly, emotions and stuff like that. This is the
same thing, just a little extra dressing on it, like
to go back to like the you know, tough locker
room guy, or these being put into a box of
a category of your character. For Charles Woodson, how when
you're hearing these things from different coaches from different gms,
like how did you was that like motivation for you?

(39:32):
Like I'll prove you wrong and this is why or
how do you handle those types of things when someone
might be putting you in a corner and saying you're
like this, when you truly don't feel you're like that.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Actually I was kind of I was hurt, man, you
know what I'm saying. Yeah, that kind of hurt, you
know because I never, throughout my whole life, had never
been in a position where people doubted me. You know
what I'm saying, that never, And so that was that
was a period where it was like there was there
was some doubt cast over me as a as a as
a football player. Now you may not like me as

(40:04):
a person or whatever that is, but like on the
football field, like to have somebody say, man, he can't
do that anymore. He's always heard he's injury prone, he's that,
and that's like damn, Like that that kind of that
kind of broke me down a little bit. And so
when I when I first got to Green Bay, you know,
there was just a period in there where I was like, damn,

(40:27):
I don't I don't even want to play football anymore,
you know what I'm saying. So at Green Bay, Yeah,
when I when I first got there and I first signed,
you know, I called a few people who are close
to me and I was like, yeah, I think I'm
I think I'm gonna hang it up. And and it
was my uh my agent at the time, Kevin Posting.

(40:47):
He uh he said, hey, man, he said, you signed
the contract, right. I was like, yeah, I signed the contract.
He was like, well, that's like giving your word. And
I was like yeah. He was like, you at least
at least need to play one at least play one year.
You know what I'm saying, Because you've signed the contract,
you gave me your word at least need to play
one year. And so I was like, yeah, you know what,

(41:07):
that makes sense. That makes sense. So, you know, I
got through that little period and then you know, things
just kind of just started to take off and slow
down in Green Bay, where I was like, all right,
I'm back.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
You guys had a good team too. It looked fun,
like everybody talked about your schematics defensively, why m I
forget his name?

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Coordinator, Well, that was later you're talking about Dom Capers. Okay,
that was later on when I first got there was
another guy. But we but in terms of having fun,
we had we had a great group, especially secondary wise,
Al Harris, Nick Collins, Tremion Williams had just come in
some young some other young guys are tarry big beats,

(41:48):
so like our secondary you know, then young will comes in.
We had just some young, good guys on that secondary
man and uh, it was great because you know when
you talk about I had some young guys that kind
of looked up to me, and so you know, kind
of watching what I did, and you talk about the
film study and all of those sorts of things. So

(42:09):
then it really became fun because because then it was
almost like a responsibility. How am I going to get
to help these guys, you know, get to the next level.
And it was really about going out there and showing
them for the most part. But then just those little
things like you know, finding your own way to watch
the film that makes it easier for you, right, and
then you grow from there?

Speaker 3 (42:29):
When did you find that transition of like when you
first set in the league and you get in a
locker with a bunch of NFL players, you're like, oh shit,
that's the so and so, Oh that's this guy. And
then eventually it flips where people and they're a fan
of you now yea, yeah, yeah, now you're Yeah, you're young,
You're the dude that people are like, yo, let me
watch film with you? And like where where do you
think that switch turned for you in your NFL career?

(42:50):
Was like, Okay, I'm now the guy that's supposed to
be leading, not following, if following for lack of a
better work, because youre always gonna do you when you're young,
it's just like you're looking up to these guys. Now
guys you're looking up to you.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
It was it probably started around six years in because
that's when because so when I first came in, like
Tim Brown, Tim Brown's in the locker room, you know
what I'm saying. Yeah, Napoleon Kaufman who watched in college
and then he was with the Raiders. Who else do
we have? Man, Dude? I just saw him too. Uh,

(43:26):
I think of it a minute, but in a minute,
but Russell Maryland, uh, Pat Swilling, it was it was crazy,
you know what I'm saying, because because when you're when
you're young, you don't you don't think you'll catch those
guys because it seems like it seems like as far away.
And then Jerry Rice came in, like, holy s these

(43:46):
dudes are in the same locker room, you know. And
so then around six years in then those guys are gone.
Tim's gone, uh, Jerry's uh, He's gone. Now, so now
those those older guys are kind of peeling off, and
so now you're starting to be one of the older guys.
And so then it kind of becomes oh, man, you know,

(44:08):
I used to watch you. Then as you get older,
you get the green Bay. Oh man, yea, I used
to watch you. And then all of a sudden, your
grandpa he's like, damn.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Rookie comes in there, like ya, I used to watch
you in high school. Yeah, yeah, high school really have
been for a while.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
No doubt.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Who are some of the best leaders you've been around?
And maybe they weren't the biggest names either, but who
are some of the best leaders that you've been around.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Like Tim Brown was a great leader. I thought that
one of my favorite guys who was who was with
the Raiders when I first got there was Eric Turner,
you know who who passed away maybe like my maybe
like second second or third year and NFL Eric Allen.

(45:02):
You know, tremendous guys like I feel like when I
came in, we had we had like real real veterans
of the game. You know what I'm saying. You know
guys who you know had been through a lot and
just you know, they they respected the game, you know
what I mean? Yeah, I have respect for the people
who came before them, Like I played with those kind

(45:24):
of guys man, And so I would say, those are
the guys who you know come off at the top
off the top of my mind. When I first got in.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
You had you had two boys, right, I got too boys?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:34):
Two boys? How has it been with them starting to
play sports? And you kind of like, hey, the expectation
is not to win a Heisman and the Defensive Player
of the year, first round pick, Like how do you
temper those expectations when your kids are looking up to
you as a father. I want to be like you
in succeed you essentially.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, it's funny because I have the conversation with him,
and it's funny because there's two different responses. So, you know,
I can tell my my oldest you know, hey man,
you know, look, you got all the talent in the world.
You know, you'll be compared. We got the same name,
you know, but you can't worry about that. You know,
you just got to go do your thing. Whatever's gonna

(46:14):
happen is gonna happen. It's like, okay, yeah, that appreciate it.
I tell my youngest son, hey man, you know, you
don't gotta you don't got to be this or that
that I'm gonna be in the Hall of Fame with you.
So I'm like, cool, you know what I'm saying. You
gotta speak at first, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
So are you like, hey, you guys have to go
to Michigan?

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Uh kind of unofficially Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, if if they're highly recruited.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Man, well, I you know I do. I do tell
those guys. Man, Listen, I want you to be able
to make your own decision wherever you you know, when
it comes to that point. But there's just one place
you can't go you know what I'm saying, Come.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
On, can't go hypothetic? Cool? For whatever reason, your kids
are playing they're playing ball. They're getting offers, but they're
like small D one offers. You're getting some Max, you're
getting some some app state type of ones. But there
was one big team that comes in and happens.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
To be But here's my question, though, why would you
ask that question?

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah, the Ohio States are taking a shot.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah, okay, full right.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Oh yeah, we're talking about a in I ling ground.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
But hey, in I l full right, nobody else is calling.
Might have to think about it.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
That would be so tough walk in the Stadium's so
tough for him wearing red.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
I'm gonna yeah, I'm gonna watch from the blimp.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yeah, you have to watch from home.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
That's funny. Ask a good question. That'd be hard. Were
you in Green Bay with Favan Rogers?

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, I first got there. FARV was there?

Speaker 1 (48:06):
What was that drama? Like, you know, everybody got to
see you know, far retires, he comes back. You know
they never you know, they wouldn't see eyed eye. There's
obviously been a lot of public conversation and and like
transparency or subjective opinion around it, like what was it
like or like being kind of like in that drama
or around it.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Well, I think for I think the guys on the
defensive side, we didn't really pay attention to it because
it's more, you know, he's in the you know, Bretton
and a Ride, They're in the meetings together all the time.
They're always on the offensive side. So we really didn't
We really didn't get into that portion of it. The
most interaction, like for myself with a Ride is a

(48:47):
Ride was on the practice squad, and so he would
always go against our defense. So that was really all
I really paid attention to. Was that part of it.
Now I remember that, you know that was U talks
of you know, Brett saying he doesn't really need to help,
you know, the guy that they just drafted basically to

(49:07):
replace him. But I never really laid eyes on like
visible tension between them because I wasn't paying attention to it,
you know what I mean. So, yeah, it wasn't It
wasn't anything that I really could comment on because I
was I wasn't in the middle of I didn't care,
to be honest, that's fair. I mean, I'm trying to

(49:30):
I'm trying to win the super Bowl. And and usually
it's a coach.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
It's like, hey, we got a pretty good one over
here in twelve and you're just thinking like, yeah, he
does a good job practice, but we should be there
picking this ball off right now.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
And and we knew it, man, we knew it right away.
Like when when Brett was kind of enter out, you know,
coming back or not coming back, and we would play
we would play, you know, against a Rod uh in
those practices, and it was like, oh, yeah, when when
Brett Lee's we're gonna we're gonna be We're gonna be.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Spoiled quarterback Francis.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, Rogers found found another one that looks.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Like, yeah, as you transitioned out of football, like how
difficult was it for you to like did you feel
completely fulfilled throughout your NFL career or was there a
point when you first left where you're like you're lacking
fulfillment the competitive nature that first ball, not playing ball,
Like how did you handle that?

Speaker 2 (50:22):
No? Uh, well, two great things. One, I won a
super Bowl. So I think had I retired and not
won a super Bowl, then I would always think about, man,
what if what if you would have, could have should.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Right now that hurts sitting on this side of the couch.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Yah changed championship. Yeah so now, yeah, so I got that.
And then when I retired, you know, I didn't I
really didn't know what what I was gonna do after
I retired. But what happened was, you know, you get
these these uh these articles that they they write up

(51:00):
about current players who are retiring who may be good
on television, And so after I retired, I went right
into television right I started working for ESPN. So I
really didn't have time to really like be retired and
be scared about that whole transition because I really went
right into something. So I would say, I'm very fortunate

(51:22):
that that happened because I didn't have to sit around
like looking back at oh man, I don't have anything
to do. You know, football is gone, you know, So
I was I was blessed to have that happen. And
then third, I would say, I played eighteen years, and
so you know, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, I

(51:45):
played eighteen years, and so I feel like the the
thing for me that I always think about is that
I remember the morning when I knew I was done
playing and it was against Detroit. We're in Detroit, and
remember looking out the window was snowing and Detroit in
the dome, so it don't it don't matter. But I

(52:05):
remember looking out and saying, man, if they canceled the
game to day, I would be okay. And as soon
as I said that to myself, I was like, it's over.
And so that morning that day, I mentally I retired.
So I always say that I actually had that was
like the tenth game of the season. I actually had

(52:27):
six more games where I was able to play after
I retired, So I fulfilled myself as a player, and
then I got to come out of retirement and play
again for six more games. So dude, I my journey
has been. I wouldn't trade it. You know what I'm saying.
I wouldn't trade it.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
So and when you were talking about, hey, I'm gonna rap,
I'm gonna be done my career, what year was that,
fifteen twenty fifteen, So that's I mean, imagine walk away
from the game when you were with the Packers.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, yeah, I'm good. That would have been Yeah, eight years.
I would have played eight years and I wouldn't be
on busting with the boys. Yeah, bro, yeah, hey, hey,
you guys will be you'd be like, remember that one
guy he went in the heis Minute. Remember what was
his name?

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah Bro.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
What got you transitioned into being an entrepreneur with the
wine and the whiskey?

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Yeah, So I got into the wine early. Man. When
I was with the Raiders, our training camp was in
Naple Valley, and so you know, each year training camp,
I was out in about you know, great restaurants all
over the valley and everyone was drinking wine like all
the time, like morning, noon, and night, always drinking wine.
So I just got really interested in it and created

(53:47):
my first label in two thousand and five, and then
around two thousand and seventeen eighteen, Intercept was born. So
that so first, so I was coming out of Naple
Valley now it's in Passo Rubbles. And then, uh, I
kind of always wanted the spirit to be a part
of you know, just my experience, and so a few

(54:09):
years back I met my partner of mine now and
uh we started sourcing whiskey out of Kentucky and uh
that's where Woodson Whiskey was born. So, man, if I
don't go to if I don't go to the Raiders.
I'm probably not into wine and probably not into whiskey.
So it's one of those things where there was an opportunity.

(54:33):
I don't know why I saw it, but I saw
it and then Bam, here we go.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
We'll meant to ask him.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Uh yeah, oh man, he can he We got you
got any cups? We got something you got that you
gotta have some.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
You gotta talk about your relationship with the with the
Mark Davis.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Yeah, great, great relationship with Mark. Man.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Are you Raiders over Michigan.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
I'm I'm a Raider fan, man, I'm not Raiders over.
I can't do Raiders over Michigan right right, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
I mean you're like one of us. You're like, you're
obviously an ambassador, but yeah, you're always in You're always
in the mix.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
With the with the Silver, always in the mix man.
And uh, you know, it's just all about you know,
respect thing. You know, Mark respected the way that I
played the game. I think you appreciate it. You know
when I came back the second time around and you know,
he had taken over and just you know, playing on
some teams that we didn't have a lot, but just

(55:27):
watching myself go out there every week, you know, sometimes
banged up fingers, messed up ribs and all that. He's like, man,
you showed the guys what it was like, you know,
to be a Raider. So yeah, that's awesome. Raiders do
a fantastic jime.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Mean, I only played a total of like maybe ten
twelve games.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
For the break. I do have a break. I got
a break.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
But going off that, I feel like the Raiders do
such a fantastic job of like taking care.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Of bringing back to guys once the raider always a
rady Yeah you hear it. Yeah, you would have been
a great raider man.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there there is some, there are some,
there's some.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Absolutely this is my commemorative battle. So this is only
uh this this is only sold in the BATA. This
one right here, only sold in the BATA. So this
is a two year straight whiskey coming straight out of uh,
straight out of Kentucky.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Give it something, give it.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
As I pour the glass and I swrolled along, I can.
I love the texture holding to the side of the
glass and slowly dripping back down. It's a really good whiskey.
As you sip it. I like to put all around
the mouth. No pause and take it because what I
do you like to do when I find the whiskey,
which is different is seeing how much it's gonna.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Stings as it goes down. Yeah. Yeah, pause.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
It's got a nice uh sweetness to it sure as
it goes down my throat. No pause is not harsh.
It's not something that I'm gonna go and take down
and be like, oh that's a little tough. Maybe should
put something in there to take away that bite sits
on the tummy just right.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Oh man, Yeah, you kind.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Of feel like, oh, I have a warm and sensation
if it's a cool day outside, I put that in there.
I know internally I'm getting the heat I need. Overall,
four point five.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Four point five five, I think I can hope. Would
you like me to go?

Speaker 3 (57:34):
How did you feel about that?

Speaker 1 (57:36):
I'm close with what you're saying. I feel like I
taste and feel a lot of the things that you're
talking about. I think it's got a nice sweet heat
up front, like not too much of that peppery up front.
You're kind of thinking to yourself like is it gonna
sting as it goes down your throat? It does nestle
down your throat very smoothly, and now that I'm in
my third or fourth sip, it's got a nice warm,

(57:58):
not like a harsh we're kind of messes up your
chance just sitting on your stomach.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
It's very comfortable on an empty stomach. I don't know
if you've yeah, yeah, I know what you're just saying.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, And overall, I would give it a four point five.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Yeah, so we're going to take that as a nine
out of ten.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
So our dumb shick is it's not about it's always
going to be four point five, because that thing's ever perfect.
But it's the description in what you hear that you
can establish, is that four point five out of five
is it out of twenty? So that's for the viewer
to decide.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yeah, I like that, Like even a harsh of bad whiskey,
it's still good at four point five. But you would
explain it in a way of like, and that's not
my favorite.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
I would say five are watering. Not a lot of
tastes in that, but it's a good whiskey.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Yeah, I like that. I like that. Let's a good
way to put that, though. I like the whole. I
like the whole four out of five portion of it.
You don't know if it's four point five out of
one hundred and fifty to twenty, but it's four point five.
But I love your description, and so I had to
come out here to get this matter of fact not
too long ago. And the first thing I thought was

(59:06):
there wasn't there's a sweetness in but I couldn't put
my finger on it, like like what I what? I what?
I what sweetness it was? So later on I'll drink
it again. Now I'll have something for you because it does.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
My first thought is caramel, Like there's a caramel.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Well, you usually you get a little in your your bourbons,
you know, get a little bit of that caramel, a
little bit of that vanilla. But but there's there's there's
something else, and I just can't because.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
There's a lot.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
It'll sting your lips and you never get to get
the flavor right. So I needed to have and I
always want to have something that, man, you can you
can enjoy. Uh. You know a lot of people want
uh you know, barrel strength whiskey, you know, which is great.
You got to put your cube in it. That's cool,
and we'll do some things like that. As well, But

(59:53):
your your every day whiskey. What I want you to
enjoy on game day, I want you to be able
to enjoy it. I just you know, put the cube
or I don't need you to do all that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Do you like? Are you more of a fan of
your whiskey or the one?

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
No? I mean that both my kids I know you love.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
But what wins more? What wins more?

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
Right now? Who's your favorite child at this moment?

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
You're not.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
You're gonna say I love them both the same, but
you're going to think of one name first. Yeah, I'll
tell you right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
I don't do that. I don't do the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
I love.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
I love both my babies the same, boys more than
others at certain times. Well, what I would say, though,
what I would say with the with the whiskey, is
that it's more interactive. That makes sense because there's a
lot of things you can do with it, you know.
So if I was going to have a party or

(01:00:48):
get together or something, and we wanted to make a
bunch of different things out of that whiskey, old man,
we got we got. We got a whole range of
things that we can do, we can express on our
teams Manhattan's old fashioned paper planes. We can do all
these different things. We could make something with the wine
as well. We do. We do a little. It's called
a one of the restaurants I go that have both

(01:01:11):
of my products, it's called the Intercept Sour So it
has their housemade sour mix my red blend which is
not there, and my whiskey and they mix it in
this nice little I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Feel like, you know what I'm saying, do you have
a cigar? Notyt I was gonna say, I feel like
you got the whiskey, like, I feel like you got
you got the nice the age beard. That's really well done.
I feel like you're a cigar guy. Did you like
that when the Raiders will pull that out after the victory? Yeah?
Talk about talk about Ap getting the getting the head
coaching job.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Yeah, I think I think Mark had to do it.
Man had to do it. It was a ground swell
of support for for Ap and just the way he
came in Man and and the way that the team
just really responded to him. I thought they had to
do it. So I'm excited for him. And I was
able to go and talk to him before they went
and played Indianapolis and I told the guys, I said, hey, man,

(01:02:04):
I can't wait until I get the chance to come
in the locker room and hang out at Club Braider
with you guys. And so last game of the season
against Denver, I got a chance to get in the
Club Braider. After the game, Max crowsby running around, Yeah,
hands me the cigar. And that was a moment, man,
that was a real moment. And so I love it.

(01:02:26):
I think Ap is gonna, he's gonna, you know, do
a great job. I think he's gonna, you know, hopefully.
You know, he's a great talent evaluator along with the
new GM man and they get guys in here that
love the game of football and who want to be Raiders,
and so if he can accomplish that, yeah, we'll be right.
We'll be right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
And we appreciate you coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
This has been incredible. Man.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
There was one quick story I do want to tell.
It was after my rookie year and I was in town.
We were doing a charity event. I believe it was
Yours and Hushingson's security event, and I went to my
old house because obviously a couple of guys were there
that I used to live at I was damn near
blackout drunk, and I was on some extracurriculars as well.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
You come along way from that baby swimming pool, no question.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
A car, dude, A car pulls up and Charles Woodson walks.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
A little you know the little pools that you fill
up for like two year olds. Ye, this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Sitting in it, and we're you know, the you've seen
the house I lived on. It was like right on
that main street called State Street, not far from not
far from drunk, now far from Templar. He pulls up
because I'm supposed to be that charity events and I
ended up going blackout. It was a terrible experience for
everybody else but me. But he pulls up and all
my boys are there, and you came up at me up.

(01:03:39):
We talked for a second and I got back in
that tub.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
After you left.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
I felt like the fucking man. I was like, you know,
he just pulled up just to say what's up and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Left right right right, randomly riding down the street. Taylor,
why in a baby swimming pool? It was I gotta
see what's going on over it was.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
That was an interesting time of my life. Will Will
has heard some stories about me and Michigan and the couple.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
First different all of you offensive linemen. Man, you guys
are crazy. Nuts, you guys are crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Yeah, it's definitely calmed down quite a bit, thank god,
because I would have right now, i'de.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
This is what I tell people before you in is
you You. You're a different person now, you do things differently.
And so we all came into the NFL, you played
you know how many other years and you do a
lot of dumb ship. And so what I tell young
guys is like, I hope you make it to the
other side. You know what I'm saying, Because a lot
of people in those first couple of years they get

(01:04:36):
into some ship they never recover. But if you can
play long enough, man, and kind of just keep yourself
somewhat clean and and keep yourself fitting ready to play,
and you can get to the other side. Man, it's
so much, so much better, you know what I'm saying.
But you but you don't know unless you get over it.
I'm happy you made it to the other side.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Appreciate that, man. Yeah, it's a it's a cool transition.
It would be an incredible regret to not make that transition.
And then be sitting, you know, out of the league
and knowing like, man, what could I have actually done
if I wouldn't have just got out of my own way,
And so it was it's really cool, but that moment
was awesome. Man, that was a very cool moment. This

(01:05:17):
ultimate Please subscribe.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Hey Dad, Charles Woodson, Charles Woodson, Man appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah, go Blue, Go Blue.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Hey, we got you this too,