Best of the Bus: Ran Carthon Talks Firing Mike Vrabel, Cutting Taylor Lewan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What we are rolling now.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Thank you Mitch.

Speaker 3 (00:01):
We finally got late, We got ladies, gonna got d Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
And I did say to JP's camera it took a
little hunting, It took a little.

Speaker 4 (00:11):
Text let's not do that's that's not Can I tell you?

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Can I tell you from my from okay with them?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
So when did you you got the job? What?

Speaker 5 (00:22):
In January January of twenty three January twenty three seventeen,
being outside of Rabel's office sitting with Stretch and you
came in and the way the last GM was it
was like you gotta be a little tighter around it.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
And you came in, dap me up, Hey love the show.
First thing you said to me, I'm thinking we got them?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, oh yeah, to come on. I love to come
on sometime.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Next time I saw you, you're releasing me, which we
all knew was gonna happening to that story, that story.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
You guys released me.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
And I think like forty eight hours later I hit
you with the text like, hey, you want to come
on busting with the boys? Nothing right, Yeah, But finally
it's been a year and it's it's awesome that you've
come on now instead of then because what you have
been able to acquire and do in this past offseason
has been awesome. So it's exciting to see it better

(01:15):
to have.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
You on the And the only friction, the only like
part that was like, okay, chill out. He came up
to us in the facility when you're gonna have me
on been waiting on y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
And as we're saying this, I literally said, in a
year later, it's been like five months, So I'll mess
that up.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Let's talk about Let's start off, let's talk about the
you cutting him.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, let's go. So so the day that you know
we were doing it, you know, we meet in Frames's
office and we come in and we're just chatting and
just just talking, literally having a conversation that kind of
goes into I got a composer pause and so I

(01:57):
you know, we're just sitting there having a conversation and
I can't even remember what the topic of the conversation was.
And then just him, Okay, so you're releasing me. Transition,
no segue, no nothing, just all right, So you're releasing me.
And then I'm like, uh, yeah, I mean I think

(02:20):
you kind of knew it was coming, you know, and
that's how the conversation.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
When we got back after Mexico, right, yeah, because I
was in Cabo and Vrabel shout out ravees in this
because a lot of guys don't get to choose when
they get released. Because we all knew, like the minute
I had to get my knee done again two out
of three years, like you're here getting canned, brother, You're
not going to be making that kind of money and
not playing on the field. So he calls me and
he's like, hey, we obviously have to release you. You

(02:45):
let us know when the best thing for you is.
I was like, all right, these dates work, and he's like,
can you do it before the combine? I was like, yeah, absolutely,
these days now work. So when I went in, I
had like I kind of came in. We all knew,
and Rave and I were sitting there talking about Jen
and their skiing and it's kind of cool. It's like
it's like a nice last meal before a gun gets
put through your head, right, and yeah, you sit down.

(03:06):
We haven't really talked at all the last thing I said,
and in my head, I was like, we just got
to get this going because I know it's kind of
awkward for everybody you're new, Like you and I hardly
know each other. Ray and I've been here for five years.
We all understand what's about to happen here.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
So it's like I say, this the tough part for
me obviously coming into this role, you know, this new
role and being from Afar and you know, having respect
for this team and having respect for certain guys, like
having to release you and like dang, like I remember
this dude coming out of Michigan. I had him rated high,

(03:40):
liked him coming out and watching them become a Pro
Bowl player, and even guys like Robert Woods. You know,
I've missed him at every one of my stops. So
I was at the Rams when we signed him and
then leave a month later, so never got to see
him on the field. I even have Robert Woods in
my GM presentation about players that we've I've been a

(04:01):
part of acquiring, you know, the different Pro Bowl caliber players,
but I always have him in there as an example
of a person that's going to come in and change
the culture, you know, of the building. And then I
get here and have to release him, you know. And
so I finally met Robert Woods when we played at
Houston last year and just kind of walked up to
him like, hey, man, like a ton of respect for you.

(04:24):
I met everything I told you on the phone when
we talked that day, Like, have nothing but respect for you.
It's just part of the way this thing works.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Is it hard? Like, yeah, I know it's hard, but
you come in and it's like he's highly graded, you
know who he is, He's had his career, and on
that last year, it's like it's the getback year. Like
it finally it's like you got to put everything on
and then that first player, second play, a buffalo happens. Yeah,
And in your mind as a GM, are you basically

(04:53):
was it fairly simple at that point, like, hey, this
is going to be a guy we're going to have
to release due to money and everything else.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah, the the strategy of it is simple. But you know,
and I think you and I share this and being
undrafted guys. And I don't know about you, but I've
been cut a multitude of ways, you know, some good,
some inhumane. Uh, I won't say the team is two one.

(05:22):
I knew I was getting cut. You had to be
cut down coming. I think it'll be pretty easy to
figure it out.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
But you had three years.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
So we're playing a preseason game. We're playing in a
place where my wife and my daughter are living. And
so when I come back, when I come on the
team flight, I bring all my stuff home and so
I go to the team after the game. I barely play.
I hadn't doesn't get any practice reps. So I say, hey,
I know what's coming tomorrow. Can I just stay, Like,

(05:54):
we can do the cut right now. I'll sign whatever
you need to sign. I'm healthy, that's nothing wrong with me.
It's just more convenient for me to just leave with
my wife and my daughter and go home. I live
fifteen minutes from here. Oh, we don't know what we're doing.
And I'm like come on, man, Like I was like,
cause if I go back, I'm only bringing what I

(06:14):
have on my body and my wallet. I'm not taking anything.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
And players are in tune with like, well.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
Yeah, and so they, oh, man, we don't know fly back.
First person they called next morning is me, and I'm like,
so I go in the building. I already knew that
there was like an eleven o five flight leaving, So
I was like, hey, look, can you just book me
on the eleven oh five like, no harm, no, file like,

(06:41):
I don't need to meet with anybody, Like I'm good,
I just just want to go home. And well, you
know you need to meet Nah. No, I don't like,
do meet each coach? Yeah? Yeah, And I get the
reason why you do that, but at that point I
was like sure. And then the other one, my my

(07:01):
wife and my daughter are actually getting ready to move
back home to Miami and we're doing a going away
deal at my daughter school. I'm passing cupcakes out to
the kids on a Tuesday and get the call in
the middle of passing cupcakes out and I got it.
I look at the phone and I look at her,
and she's like, now, because we I mean, we went

(07:26):
through it. So I say all that to say, like,
when it's time to cut people like you try to
do it the most tactful and most professional and humane way,
just because I've been through it, and you know, you
try to be honest. You know, you try to be honest,
you try to be up front, and you know, I've
had it to where there have been guys that you know,
I didn't particularly see as an NFL player, So you

(07:47):
try to have that conversation doesn't always go well, you know,
but you try to be cause I see it a
lot these guys. You know, you're you don't know what
to tell these guys. So sometimes it's hey, man, you're
going to play a long time in this league. You know,
this is just something we gotta do. And now this
team is numbers game, and now this guy's still training
looking for opportunity three, four years, five years. When if

(08:09):
you were honest and said, hey, look man, like this
game is probably not for you at this level. You know,
you got a college degree. You might want to start
exploring these things, you know, having that conversation at least
get that in their mind. Like I knew personally, I said,
if if I got to the point where my number
of teams outweighed my years of service, it's time to
do something different. And I got there quick. Five teams

(08:30):
in three years.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
It's time to go five teams in three years.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
When you're who's a answer?

Speaker 4 (08:41):
Answer?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
I put it on What's up, Bubba? I got you
on the.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Jelly roll?

Speaker 1 (08:49):
What's up, Bob? How could I help you? No, we're
getting after brother, we gotta bank these things getting ready
for June.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
We need you.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
I'm prime.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
You really are you really are having that contract to
you right now.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
It's going nuts. I'm so happy for you.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
I'll call you after this, right, I love you to
see you were just talking about him. But when you're
when you're cutting guys, do you find it harder to
cut rookies or cut vets.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
It's probably hard to cut vets. Sometimes they see it coming,
sometimes they don't. So that's the that's the hard part.
And vets you generally have a longer conversation, you know
what I mean, especially you know, guys like yourself, who's astute,
and you want to know the why. You know why, Hey,

(09:56):
look I thought I was playing better than you know,
this guy and this guy. So you have to have
those conversations most of the times with the rookies. The
hard part with them is you see the emotion, you
know what I mean, because you got to think about it.
Most of these dudes, this is the first time they've
ever been told they weren't good enough, right, you know,
and so you're the first person to ever tell them that.
You have to have that conversation. I mean, you live

(10:19):
through the emotion with them, and so you know, I'm
not that brutal of a human you see the emotion
of a of another man. It kind of kind of
gets to you a little bit. But then it's you know,
it's it's it becomes one of those things like I say,
if I ever get to the point where it doesn't
affect me, you know, to cut somebody's probably time for
me to look for something else to do.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
What's been your stickiest situation cutting a player or maybe
you're fumbling over your words. Oh shit, this is not
going like I thought.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
No, I've I've had a situation where you try to
have that real conversation with a player like hey, man,
like you know, it's probably time to transition, you know,
and look for something else to do. I don't know
what you're interested in, you know, by all means like
let us help you, you know, connect you with the
player engagement guy. We can help you figure this out.
And what are you saying. I'm like, well, I don't
think that you're an NFL player, you know what I mean.

(11:10):
And you try to have that conversation and then it,
you know, it gets gets a little hostile. You kind
of feel that heat. And I mean, I'm not losing
at home, you know, like you're my office one of
us is coming out. It's gonna always be. I don't
have the win to sit there and box with you. Yeah,
I'm so, I'm not doing that. So I have stuff

(11:31):
strategically placed if I need to grab and defend myself.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
If you felt like attention there, no, I have.

Speaker 4 (11:39):
Like when I was much younger, I felt I felt
the tension, you know before, and it's like, oh man,
this could be to day, you know, and it's never
it's never got to that point. But then I also
have to think about it. Sometimes it's like you're essentially
fired somebody, and so if that person wants to be
upset and express it like, it's probably best to just

(12:00):
deal with it, you know what I mean, and just
let that person have the emotion because it is their
right to be upset, you know what I'm saying. So
I just uh, most of the times you have to
sit back and just like hey, man, like I understand,
I got you. You know.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
It's so interesting you say it's like it's harder to
cut vets, and I get that for like the relationship standpoint,
But every vet I've been around that's like above five years,
they always kind of see the right you're in the
game long enough to realize, okay, when it's about to happen.
Every single training camp, there is always at least one guy,
one rookie that you just there. You can see there

(12:33):
the ignorance of they've been in high school, and in
high school say next year will get them, next year
will get them. There's never a cut college. Hey, I'm
going to grow and develop and next year I'll be
a starter. That type of thing, and they just think
I'll get them next year if I'm not a starter
this year, and then all of a sudden they come
in the locker room and they're just balling their eyes out.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I feel it's got it for me.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
It's just from the outside watching it seemed like the
rookies always just took it the hardest over the vets.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Yeah, and that's the that's the emotion that you have
to deal with. And one of the things I've always courage,
even when I was just a pro scout. When I
was a pro scout, my job was going to get them,
you know. So I was the reaper or whatever they
call them, the turn. But what I always tried to
do was I always tried to do it. And because

(13:17):
again I've been cut every which way, and so if
I especially a VET, I would never follow behind the vet.
I would catch the vet one on one. Hey, look,
you need to come up and see coach. You go
see coach, and then I just tell them because now
I have to walk you around through the exit process,
and I'm like, hey, look, to help you avoid the
questions from your teammates, we're gonna go from here. You're

(13:40):
gonna go to medical, from medical to equipment and then
I'll be loosely by you without anybody suspecting me around.
So I would just blend in, you gotta go see medical,
as why are you meeting with the trainers. I'm over
here joking with this guy, talking to this guy, make
eye contact with the trainer like hey, are we good?

(14:00):
And then when they leave go to the equipment room.
I kind of loosely follow behind, so when I was
doing it, you would never know that I'm following this dude. Yeah,
you know what I mean. And so when I got
in a position to have other people do it, I
would say, hey, like give them the respect, don't try
to walk behind them with the paper and like, no,
you need to go, like give them the respect. Because
the last thing you want is for the walk through

(14:22):
that locker room, and everybody's like, damn, you got cut everybody.
That's the last Yeah, that's the last thing you want.
So I always try to do it with respect.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Is that like I think you've acquired over time, or
the first time you knew you were gonna have to
be the grim Reaper, you were like, I have to
be as respectful as possible.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
Well, the first time, I'll never forget the first person
I cut. It was the day they're saying I have
to get this guy. He decides to do extra. No
he didn't. He didn't play after that, and so he's
doing extra on the field. It's ota and I'm like

(15:02):
waiting and I'm trying to catch him, you know, catch
him one on one. So he huddles up with a
group of vets and he's walking. I'm on a time limit, right,
because they were like, we need to have him up
here about twelve fifteen. It's like twelve oh five, and
I'm like, and I'm trying to make eye contact with
him as he's walking with the vets and he's not

(15:25):
making an.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Eye counts knows he of course he knows.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
I don't know, he's.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Like your money as a player, Like, what do you
think is gonna happen?

Speaker 4 (15:33):
Like you're.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, yeah, he'll just be on the week one roster.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
So then I had to like, hey, uh, let me
holl at you for a second. And he comes up
and say, hey, man, like we need to go up
and see coach right now. So we go up, We
do the whole thing. I still give him the respect
or whatever. That weekend, I decide, you know, hey man,
I'm gonna I'm gonna hang out this weekend. Can't make

(16:00):
this up. I get to the bar. I go to
the bar, I order a drink. I look up and
he's at the corner of the bar and I was like, nah,
I cancel that drink. I was like, I'm good. I
need to keep him in view. I don't know if
he thinks it's me, yeah, you know what I mean.
And I ended up being there for like twenty minutes.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
I was like, I gotta go, I gotta get out
of here.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
And I just remember me and him locking eyes and
I was like.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, safety. I feel like a vet would be
harder too, because like rookies, you'll cut him or whatever.
They'll probably be more emotional because it is their first
time kind of being told no. And not only that,
but everyone ever rookie, like everybody wants to be the best,
and you have the weight of whatever pressure expectation you
have on yourself because you've identified as a as a
stud player. It's like now you got to tell your family,

(16:47):
with everybody at home with a thing, man, I feel
like a loser. Like there's a lot of that weight.
I feel like with vets you'll have the longer conversations
because sometimes it's probably not easy because there could be
games going on, right like Okay, I'd been playing, or man,
I've been getting more rips to him, or the reason
that this didn't work out is because did you ever
talk to the coach or this film?

Speaker 4 (17:06):
That film?

Speaker 3 (17:07):
I feel like there's a lot.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
Of its kind of a lot more conversation that goes
into it, you know. And like I said, it's just
never easy with a ved especially a guy that's just
been with that organization, right, you know what I mean.
I think it's a little bit easier conversation for you know,
the quote unquote journeyman that's bounced around, But for a
guy that's been with a club three, four or five,
six years and then you got to deliver this message.

(17:30):
It's like whoa, Like this is all I know. This
is and most times you have to explain to him
how the process goes because they've never gone through it,
you know what I mean. And so it's like I said,
it's a lot further conversation.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
That was such a hard Like I thought I would
have to sign something because I rememberre sitting there and
being like, we'll have to sign, like, oh no, we
just have to tell you we're releasing you.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yeah, tell your release, you walk you through the process
and you know.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
That because that was my only time here.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
But yeah, yeah, to me, man, that's crazy.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
Man, I needed to.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Hey, ran first one.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Who you want first? He goes seventy seven. Yeah, that's
the guy. Get your money.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Here's how we're gonna freedom fairly quickly.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, we're gonna get that guy.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
That was wild because I thought there has to be
like some sort of like signing.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
Yeah, it's not, it's not too formal, you know, if
you will it is you know for you, you know,
you were still rehabing. So it was one of those
things like for a person that's you know, fully healthy, Hey,
I'm signing out fully healthy, and then for a player
that's rehabbing, it becomes an extended process because now you
got to go get images and all these different things.

(18:38):
It becomes a much longer process. So that's really the
difference in yours and whoever else we did around that time.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
Man, what got you into going from player to wanting
to get in to the other side of getting into
the floor above the front off?

Speaker 1 (18:51):
You think about a guy gets cut five times in
three years, I feel like that's something you want to
stay away.

Speaker 4 (18:57):
From more than five times. It's three years. I played
for five teams in three years, I got cut, got
out there exponentially more. Yeah. No, it was something that
I always knew I wanted to do. I've always been
like a big fan of the draft, and before I
even knew that that's this was an industry, draft weekend

(19:19):
would come. I would go buy the magazines, I get
a legal pad, and I would sit in front of
TV in my room and try to, you know, based
off of me reading these magazines and watching college football,
try to predict who was gonna take who. And then
you know, my dad played eight years in the league
coach for nineteen and he always wanted to be on
the personnel side, but when he was done playing, parcels

(19:42):
forced him into coaching. And so my dad. All the
teams my dad was with when I was in college,
when he came down for pro days, whether it was
him or someone from the staff, he would say, Hey,
you're gonna get up, You're gonna meet them, watch film
with them at six in the morning, whatever it was.
You're gonna chart their numbers, you know. And so when
I was in college, you know, I'm running the stopwatch,

(20:03):
you know, and doing I like went on to Pro
day whenever, whether it was my dad. I remember one
time Tony Sperano got rest his soul, you know, he
came down. I remember one year it was Terry Rubisky,
you know, when he came down. And so I'm holding
I'm running the clocks, you know for these guys, and
being amongst the scouts as they're talking about the different

(20:24):
times and everything and charting all this, and then you know,
they would ask me questions about my teammates, like hey,
what do you think about this guy? Like is he
a good teammate? And you know, how do you think?
What do you think about him? On the field, and
so that started it. And then, like I said, when
years of service outweighed, when teams outweigh years of service,
it was time to transition. I tried to coach. I

(20:46):
coached high school ball down in Miami at North Miami
Senior High and O seven H knew probably the first
two weeks that that wasn't a route for me. Didn't
have a patience for. Yeah, didn't have a patience for
and I quickly knew. I was like, okay, let me try.
So then I started taking workouts with teams because I

(21:08):
was like, how else am I going to meet the gym? Like,
I don't have GM's phone numbers. So I knew I
didn't want to play anymore. But teams were still called like, hey,
we want to try you out, you know, And so
I would go in and do a tryout just to
be able to meet the GM and so yeah, and
so when they were still and so they would say, oh,
you know, sorry, you know, not going to sign you,

(21:29):
and I'm like, cool, Yeah, can I get your card?
Because I want to do what you do? One day
and that's how I meant less need. I went and
did a rookie mini camp tryout with the Falcons. Didn't
get a single rep the whole mini camp, which was perfect,
and yeah, I was yeah. I was just like, no,

(21:49):
I'm good. And so I remember we were walking out
of the front of the building and Less was, you know, hey, hey,
thank you, thank you for coming, you know, and I
was sugar hand. I was like, hey, man, like let
me get your card, you know, let me get your card.
I was like, I want to do what you do
one day and he was like, I don't have any
on me, but just reach out. And so when I

(22:10):
was trying to get back in, I remember that conversation
and my agent that I had at the time, Kevin Connor,
he had two players on the Falcons team. So I
was like, hey, man, like call the teams that you
have relationships with and let them know I'm sending cover letters,
resumes like all this stuff. And he he called me.
He was like, hey, man, I talked to Less. He said,

(22:32):
they doesn't have anything, but he wants to bring in
an interview and talk with you and interview with it
with Les and Thomas de Mitrov and Lino Vital and
Dave Calwell, all who I was with the exception of Thomas.
I had different connections with them, unknowingly right, and so

(22:52):
about two weeks later, Man, let's call me and offer
me a job. That's how I got it.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, Yo, that's fascinating, Like obviously somebody like that growing up,
magazines everything else. Like you've loved football for the longest time.
And usually, like the guys, once you start playing and
you understand the business, like getting cut a few times, Like,
once you understand the teeth of it and how cut
through it can be, it kind of jade you a
little bit. As a player. You maintain you're throughout this

(23:19):
whole thing. You're maintaining that that love for still wanting
to be in the business.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
Yeah, I mean for me, I've been blessed to have
great mentors. And one of my primary mentors back home
in Key West, Bill Spots. Would you know his You
know him and his family. They do real estate development
amongst other things, and they owned a couple of hotels.
And I remember him telling me a story when he
was younger, you know, he told his father like, hey,

(23:45):
one day I want to own my own hotel. And
his family owned a couple of hotels, and so his
father then put him in the business, and he worked
every level of the hotel from a bellman to run
in the elevator to then being behind the counter, and
worked his way up until he became owner, you know,
of one of the family hotels. And so that's kind

(24:05):
of how I see my journey. You know, I've been
on the field, I've been a scout, I've been a director,
and now I've been a GM. So I've worked my
way through an organization, you know what I mean. So
I've seen it from every level, and it puts me
in a position to be able to identify with everybody
in the building. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Man, that's when you're when you finally get that call
and say, hey, you want this job.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
You take it. Did you have any idea not the GM.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Job, just like the starting out getting in with us everybody?
Did you have any idea of like how much of
the bitch work and all that that stuff you would
have to do?

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Oh? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (24:38):
He was there ever a pointer like is this really
what I'm trying to do? Is it?

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Is this worth it?

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (24:43):
No? So the pay pay and listen, I knew I
wasn't coming in making forty million dollars, Like I knew
that that's not what the what the job is. And
you honestly don't get in the personnel to make money.
You know, you get in because you love it and
you're passionate about it. But I remember getting the job,
and I knew that I was gonna have to do

(25:04):
a lot of the grunt work, and I wanted to
because there was a stigma attached to former players that
we don't want to do the menial task, and so
I wanted to be able to be the guy that's like,
oh Na, like you need me run to the airport
that's an hour away. Cool, I'll you know, run to
the airport that's an hour away and sit in Atlanta traffic,
you know, for two hours to get there, just to
more so knock down that stigma, to be able to

(25:25):
let other former players have a shot, you know, at
getting in. But it's like when they when the pay
is is what it was, I tell you guys off air,
and it's like you're rubbing Nichols together every two weeks
like ooh, you know, it's like man, it's I'm like
I could have been doing a bunch of other things
making more money than this. But again, like I said,
you don't. You don't get in to make money, You

(25:46):
get in for the love of it.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
I mean, that's a testament to your drive about wanting
to do something and being in the seat you're in.
What is the relationship with Less need the most important
relationship you feel like you've made throughout your journey of
climbing to where you are now.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
No, it's definitely my foundation one. Like I said, everywhere
I've been, I've been able to foster relationships like my
relationship with Less. When he got the GM job at
the Rams, he hired me and gave me my first
director job. You know. From there I was able to
you know, work with you know, Jeff Fisher, our new
de coordinator, Denard Wilson. We worked together at the Rams

(26:20):
and the Frank Bushes and the Greg Williams and guys
like that. And then transitioned to Sean mcvayh and his
staff coming in and all those guys that we were around,
you know, Sean was there, you know, Mattie LeFleur was there,
Guys like Aubrey Pleasant, you know, all these guys were around.
And then go to San fran and then I mean, shit,

(26:42):
in what twenty nineteen, our draft room featured I guess
now five gms and four head coaches where and we
were all in the same draft room in twenty nineteen.
And then you develop relationships with guys like Paragua Maraate,
you know, who's run the business side for San franc
Cisco for twenty plus years. He was originally hired by

(27:02):
Bill Walsh. And then have a guy like that take
you under his wing and start showing you the contract side,
and you know, working with guys like Koasi Adolfo Mensas
showing you how to incorporate analytics in football. Like it's
a bunch of different people who've poured into me from
a football that's just football. But then you meet people
outside of football that pour into you from a business perspective,

(27:24):
because we have to remember football is football, right, That's
what we've done our whole lives. That's what we came
up doing. But at the time, Jerry Richardson was the
only owner that had played in the NFL, and so
a lot of the owners are come from the business background.
So being able to have you know, certain mentors to

(27:46):
teach you the business side allows you to speak that
language you know, and you know, be on the same
page with the owner from a business perspective, So it's
been a ton of people that have poured into me
to help me get here.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
That is wild, man. It seems like you're very aware
of all the people that have helped you and gotten
to the point you're at now, which is so awesome.
When it comes to the war room on the first
draft night, talk to me about the intensity that goes
down in there. How like this draft, we know the
Titans want to take a tackle or pull up Bengles

(28:18):
and our quarterback got hurt, We're still going to go.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Get a wide receiver type of situation.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
When you guys are sitting there and Callahan, who was on,
he said, you guys were happy with Jacon Latham or
Joe Walt, Like as it starts ticking and Joe Walt
goes out at five, Like where is Like?

Speaker 2 (28:33):
What's the energy like in that room?

Speaker 4 (28:34):
So it's a ton of work that goes into it beforehand.
And I will say, and we were talking about this
at the office last week, I will say, of every
draft room I've been in, this was probably the most
accurate board that I've ever been a part of. From
because we rank them vertically. Then we rank them horizontally
right by position. This was probably the most accurate board

(28:59):
I've ever been.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Now, when you say vertically and horizontally, are you talking
about best players vertically?

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Yes, we have the positions going horizontally right, just straight
across split offense, defense. And so if we got quarterbacks here,
you know, we rank them vertically, you know, from one
to whatever, and you do that for every position, and
then you go across horizontally like, okay, is this quarterback
better than this receiver? And then you start adjusting the

(29:27):
cards as you go. So it's kind of like this
as it goes across you know, the board. And so
we pretty much knew just based on our research. We
knew exactly where the first four picks were going to be.
And for us, the draft started at five at the Chargers.
And then you get to the spot where you're like, okay,
we have three guys you know over these next three

(29:49):
picks that we're good with any one of these three.
We don't have to make any sudden moves to jump up.
You know that it's going to cost us in the future.
And so it was it was a waiting game. We've
done enough research to know that the Chargers were going tackle,
and so you sit there and you're like, okay, which one,
and then you start playing the Well, you know, they
got Rashaun Slater at left tackle, so I could see

(30:12):
JC going because he's played right tackle, you know what
I mean. But then you're like, well, you know, the
Chargers were at the pro day, at Joe Waltz pro day,
and you start hearing like they really like him, and
so you're like, yeah, I could see that too. So
you start trying to you know, you do that part,
but then you got to take it a step further
because the Giants are right below you, and you're like, well,

(30:34):
the Giants have you know, drafted pretty well on the
old line and they got some guys. But it's like,
all right, well what if they go what if one
of the tackles say whoever they take, whether JC or Joe.
But what if the Giants decide we're going to take tackle.
I'm like, okay, then that pushes one of the other

(30:55):
guys to us, and we got to be comfortable with that.
So we work all those scenarios. So when we got
there and we're just sitting there and it's like you're
you're at the behest of the Chargers. So now you
start hitting your contacts like, hey, what are you hearing?
What do you know? You're hitting your contacts that are
in the green room, like, hey, what does it look

(31:16):
like over at this table? In this table? And then
you know, we so we usually find out a little
bit before you know, the it's announced, and so it's like,
you know, Chargers pick us in, and then it shows
on our screen and it says Joe out, and so
we're like, okay, and that before yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
So as soon as they put put the car before
Goodell walks up.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
Yeah, yeah, we know because because the next team is
immediately on the clock. And so we're like okay, and
now we wait, you know, to see what the Giants do.
And when once we saw that Joe went to the Chargers,
we were pretty certain that they were going to take
that the Giants were going to take Neighbors, and so
it was like, you know, say, Sagi, you know, get

(32:02):
me j C's number. And you know, Sagi's been here.
I think this was his nineteenth draft with the team,
and he's like, hey, do we want to jinx it?
And I was like, listen, if we got to rip
it up. We rip it up, and then we called
the next person you know what I mean. I was like,
but just have it ready, and so he got me
the got me the number, and we waited and when

(32:22):
they took neighbors, I was like, all right, we got
the big fellows.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
When you know you're gonna take JC and the teams
behind you don't have a needed tackle is there? Like
are you trying to act till you figure out like, hey,
y'all want to come up?

Speaker 4 (32:36):
No, it was some teams like that called and they
were like, hey, like we're interested in coming up. Was
a close no because for me it was like we're
not going to pass on a dude that we think
like super highly of, like just to gain like move
back a couple of spots. And yeah, it was. It was.

(32:59):
We filled it all probably the first five minutes we
were on the clock just to see, you know, if
anything was gonna blow us away, and didn't didn't come close,
And so we picked up the phone and called a
big fella and was damn happy to get him.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
What's been the craziest draft room moment You've been a
part of.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Everyone here watching right now thinking about the movie draft day, Yeah,
tradings move and maybe the place talk about one where
the players not playing anymore where you could talk about it.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
No, no, I'll tell you. Last year, we get on
the clock in the third round and Raves and I
are sitting there and we're discussing, like hey man, I'm like,
let's let's go running back, you know, right here, and
you're looking on the board and you know, we were like, hey,
let's let's go with the Tulane kid, you know, Taj.
So then a team calls and they're like, hey, we're

(33:46):
interested in coming to the to your pick, and they
made an offer, and so we had like I have
these screens in front of me that has like the
trade calculator, and so you know, I started looking at
what I was like, no, that's not gonna get it.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
Oh is your trade calculator like Madden? Like it's just
green green.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Yeah, so it's it's I don't know because I don't
I don't play I don't play mad trying to click
it in, Yeah, I'm like, I don't play Madden like that,
But it's like similar. So there's like there's a bunch
of different ones that you can use. Trade charts but
mostly everybody used the Jimmy Johnson trade chart, so just
clicking through it. I told him that offer didn't work,

(34:23):
and then I was like, but hey, if you give
us this this and the next year's this, then yeah,
we could do it. And then the guy, the guy
who I was speaking to, he was like, na, we
you know, we'd be out. I was like, all right, cool,
we're going to make the pick. So I tell SAG.
I'm like, hey, can you give me tay J. Spears' number.
I think by this time it's probably let's just say,

(34:47):
three minutes on the clock, and I'm literally downing the number.
Hit the last number. That team calls back and they're
keep calling. They want to do the deal, the one
that you proposed, the one that I proposed. They said no.
And then they came back right as we're calling to

(35:09):
accept the deal, you know, and I'm like, it's too late,
So pick up the phone answers. He's like hello, and
all I say is and he goes crazy, like screaming.
Everybody in the family everybody's cheering, and I'm like, yo,

(35:29):
like I haven't said anything yet, and he's like, let's go,
let's go. So I'm like hey, man, like hold on,
like you know, let's let's talk. And he's going he's
going crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Thinking about taking the deal.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
No, no, I'm not going you're about to be hold on.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
But then click, phone hangs up, and so I'm like,
call back. So I called back. My bad, my bad,
my bad. Hey, y'all got to shut up. And so
I get back. I'm like, hey, man, you know, call
him like, hey, we're gonna take you with this pic.
And everybody's still going crazy. By this time, it's like,

(36:08):
I see it now, it's one forty eight on the clock,
before we run out of time. Click phone hangs up again,
and at this point I look at Vin Marino. I'm like,
just turn it in, like we've tried him and his
family to see it, come up on it, Like, just
turn it in. So we called back again and he's like, man,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was like, well,

(36:30):
hold on, I said, I'm gonna let you talk to
coach Rabes, and of course, you guys know Rabes. Rabes
gets on the phone. He's like, hey, listen, man, if
this is the start of your NFL career, you're not
getting off on the good foot. You know what I mean. Yeah,
and they talked for a little bit and then I mean,
obviously Taj is great, you know, it's just super good.

(36:51):
Dude works his behind off. But that was like a crazy.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Are you thinking? Like as you're down the number and
then the team wants to accept whatever the trade is
as a party is like I've already dialed the number, I.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
Can now And that's always my thought process. It's like,
once I make up my mind to pick, like I'm
it's it's over, you know, like I'm I'm moving on,
like I'm not entertaining that. And I mean for us,
you know, obviously you you document everything. You got a
camera right in your face as you're doing this, so
you gotta maintain maximum composure, you know. And it's, uh,

(37:25):
but again like once once we make our mind up
to pick, we're picking.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
So what you talk about the camera?

Speaker 4 (37:30):
Man?

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I think about that Aj Brownshade, Yeah, very able, standing
up walking kind of doing one of these things right here.
That was It's one of those not composure moments.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
Yeah, I mean, and and again it's it's you know,
because you have, you know, you have a responsibility to
your fan base to try to give them as much
as possible and show them everything that you're doing. But
when it's when it's that now I'm what I'm feeling
on the inside versus what's being shown could be totally yeah,
you know what I mean. Like, and everybody has their

(38:03):
little things that they do. You know, I have a
baseball that I'm usually like have with me, whether I'm
you know, squeezing the hell out of the baseball, you know,
underneath the table or whatever the case may be. I remember,
you know, Less would have his little shards of paper
that he's just kind of ripping up. I know, Jeff
Fisher had a lucky coin you know, that he had
with him, you know, on draft night. So everybody has

(38:24):
their little their little deals to just you know, help
them keep composure.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
You mentioned earlier like this is the most accurate board
you've ever ever been a part of. What do you
mean by that?

Speaker 4 (38:34):
From just from the way that we had them ranked
to how they came off the board. You know. So
some teams, everybody does it difference. Some teams stack the
board just for them in how they see it and
who fits them, you know. So there may be some
good players that are not on your board because it
doesn't fit your scheme, and then you have some teams
that stack it based on okay, this is how we

(38:56):
think they're gonna, you know, come off the board, and
for us, we stack it for us. You know, we
don't care what everybody else think. We stacked the board
for us. And as we're sitting there and we're watching,
I mean, it was I mean, I think everybody felt
Caleb Williams was going number one, so you knew that
how that was going to go. But then as we
started going positionally, you're looking and they were just coming off,

(39:19):
you know, the exact way we predicted it to, which
which is ultimately what led us, you know, in the
second round at thirty eight, you know, to take big
sweat you know there. And what I like to do,
you know, particularly with miss Amy and Kenneth is you know,
leading up to the draft, like hey, come on in,
let us show you the board and here and we're

(39:39):
gonna we're gonna talk through every position and this is
where we think, this is how it's gonna go. And
we got to the second round. We met earlier that
morning and it was like, hey, this is what I think,
this is how the second round is gonna unfold once
this team here is gonna pick this, and then once
they picked this, it's gonna be a run at this position,
and then it's gonna be a run here, and then

(40:01):
it'll be this, and then once this person goes there's
gonna be another run. And it just went exactly.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
I didn't know if you meant every whoever's a part
of the entire draft process. You guys all kind of
accurately saw it the same versus you're like, all the
times you've been in the with all the different teams
in all different years.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
I'll tell you what is different pages there's I'm pretty
sure there's been other times in my career, but the
one that comes to mind for me, the first time
I've ever seen, I say, the first time I've ever
seen all the scouts and all the coaches have the
exact same grade and thought on a player was Rob
Havenstein when he came out of Wisconsin and I was

(40:41):
at the RAMS and we took him in the second round.
He had consistently the same grade by every single person
in our organization. That that was the first time I've
ever seen it. I don't I can't remember seeing it recently. Again,
and sometimes it's I mean, most of our grades are
color you know, they're color based with the number and
decimal system in between. And sometimes you have like everybody

(41:05):
thinks this guy is a red starter. This guy's gonna
be a good starter for a long time. Red is good?

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Is that the best color? No?

Speaker 4 (41:11):
Blue? Yeah? Blue is blue is the you know, And
a lot of times, yeah, a lot of times we
talk in colors, right, hey man, this guy is a
red player, he's a blue player, and so we talking colors.
And so sometimes even within the red, the red grade,
it's like a couple of couple of decimals, so it's
different levels of red. But then to have for every

(41:34):
single body, every single person to have the same exact
number grade in color grade on on a guy was
it was like a cool thing to see.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
You know how you can figure out exactly what the
draft is going to happen? You just hire Os the mentalist.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
You know what. I didn't see the clip, but I
see all his I'm a big YouTube short guy because
I don't have social media, and so I see all
his stuff and I just think it'll be so dope
to I hope he he's watching, uh to have him
come in during camp. Yes, yeah, who else he's yeah,
he's done.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
He showed you see he predicted the first thirteen picks.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
No, bro, no, I didn't see that.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Oh he like did I think it was the Raiders
And he was like Raiders brought bours at thirteen and
then he had a small little sheet next to us
are unraveling. It was like trade here, this pic, this pick,
this pick, every single pick, the first thirteen picks.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Someone he's going to have to be our consultant.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, he comes in lets war room next year. That's
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, they're going to pick this guy, but he has
to do it an elaboratory single time.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
Can you imagine how funny it would be just to
show him in our draft room standing over Cali and
I shoulder like the camera. Yeah, bro, it was this
is our secret weapon to.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Day.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Finally it's like, this is your pick. It's like he
was right, Yeah it was our pick. Dude.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
What was your thought on the Atlanta Falcons taking Pinnix
GM chair. You kind of see too the video of
the owner talking to Terry the GM and people are
kind of like saying whatever, like oh, wonder what this
conversation is.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
That's I kid you not like we had a we
had an inkling that that was going to happen, that
they were going to take them. You got to understand
our assistant GM, Anthony Robinson, he just came from Atlanta,
so he spent his whole career in Atlanta. I started
my career in Atlanta, you know, with him, So you

(43:28):
kind of get a feel for how things are done organizationally,
regardless of who's running it. But we we probably about
two weeks prior we were we were sitting around, we
were talking about all them. We called it team Needs
and we're kind of going through it, and we were
like quarterback and it was like so you start playing

(43:49):
with it, and then it kind of became clear. It
was like man, like they really could go pandis right here.
And so when it happened, I wish you could see,
like our room, we kind of like boys kind of
looked at each other like so it wasn't a real
surprise to us.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Yeah, how do you obviously there's so many variables, but
as a GM, like how do you see that pick
for like Atlanta? I mean it's a wild question. How
do you feel that.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
No no, I mean I understand, Yeah, I understand, because
you you always have to have a plan for the future,
and that's at every position, right, I mean I can
remember because you study other people's drafts, right, You study
how people do it, you know, organizationally, teams that like
like Seattle with John Schneider, they've done a good job

(44:38):
of always staying, you know, ahead. Mickey Loomis in New
Orleans is usually the first one that comes to mind
for me, especially when they were rolling they had Drew
and Sean Payton was there. They always drafted a year
ahead of a need, so you had a young guy there.
You think back when they had Jeremy Shockey, they draft
Jimmy Graham in the third. You know, all those times

(45:00):
they had, you know, guys up front. I remember when
they took Andre's Pete played them at guard early, then
he became the tackle. Like they they always drafted year
ahead of need. They did it at corner, they did
it at receiver, they did it at running back, where
you might look heavy at that position. But then the
next year they move on from a guy or guys
a free agent, they don't pay them, and then they

(45:20):
got the next guy already he's already been in the
system for a year and now you just step into
your row.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
I was just gonna say, it feels like to be
in that spot of being able to draft a head.
You have to do so well in the drafts, you know,
leading up to it, like you hit on guys, you
have a good room, because if not, you have a
glaring hole that it's like, well, we can't really afford
the draft to head.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Yeah. No, they tell you all the time, like when
you're coming up in this business and you're learning, like
the draft is where it happens, is where you really
build your team, and you know, you you cut your
teeth and you you make your way building through the drafts,
you know, because it gives you, you know, such leeway,
like we don't we're not able to make the free
agent moves we made if we have to pay our

(46:02):
quarterback fifty million, you know, right, So we got a good,
you know, promising young quarterback who's on a rookie deal.
What gives us more room to kind of build around him? Now,
Prayer forly. You know he's going to flip soon, and
you know he plays extremely well and you know his
his contract, you know, shows that, and so now it's

(46:23):
back to us building through the draft because we're going
to have to surround him with young talented players because
you can't go out and pay you know, everybody, you know,
especially with the with the with the cost of doing
business now, you know, you can't afford to pay everybody.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, when you're going through the draft and stuff like that,
I feel like a lot of owners want to be
more part of it, less a part of it, and
kind of give their opinion more oftentimes than not.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
How is miss Amy when it comes to the draft?
How did she handle it?

Speaker 4 (46:50):
She's the best because miss Amy is miss Amy. She
trusts when she hires you to do a job, she
trusts you to do the job. And so she doesn't
come in and say, hey, no, let's make this guy
number one, or I like this guy more. She just
wants to know the why. And so that's why we
do a good job. I think of over communicating with

(47:12):
her and we bring her in a couple of days
before the draft and we show her the entire board.
Here's why you know we like this guy, Here's where
we think this guy can fit. And it's just a
group of us in the room. We close the door,
we lock it, and we're in there for a couple
of hours, and we explain the whole board to her
and again, and when once she sees it and she

(47:34):
sees how it's unfolding, and it's unfolding the way you
said it would, and now she has a little bit
more trusting you, you know, and so she just she
trusts us to do our job, which is the best.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Have you seen it the other way where owners come
in and they're a little more won their finger on
the pulseter want to make the decision.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
Well not, because I've been with what four clubs, I've
never seen it to where the owners like, hey, we
should take this guy. But I've seen, you know, I've
seen it where the owner not only wants to know
the why, but he's like are we sure? Or if
a player goes like, hey, why didn't we take this guy?

(48:14):
You know, I've seen that, you know, that question before.
But I've never been in a place where the owners like,
you know, hey, I watched tape last night and I
like this kid?

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Do they come do? A lot of the owners come
in kind of well versed in what's going on in
that first round?

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Yeah and yeah, and I think I think I'm not
going to make it seem like we're the only ones
that communicate with our owner, because I think all gms
communicate with their owner and what they like. But I
think everybody informs their owners of hey, here the here
the pot of guys that we like at this pick,
and so they're aware. I won't give our secrets of
what we do, but I miss Amy's well informed, you know,

(48:53):
every guy heading into to the draft.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
How do you feel like your role as GM has
developed from you one year two? Because you've obviously had
a different You had very last year, you have Callahan
this year. Talk about those relationships, talk about how your
rules developed as a GM.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
I think my role has developed. It's just developed more
because I'm more comfortable I have another, you know, a
year doing it last year. Last year, I couldn't imagine
doing it without Rapes, you know, because he was He's
a vet, you know, one of the smartest you know,
football minds I've ever been around. And just having him

(49:32):
there to bounce things off of, you know, because I
don't I don't give damn what position you're in. You've
never done it till you've done it. You know, you
can read every book there is. You know, I can
go and read every book there is on how to
play basketball. But I've never played basketball till I've been
out there on that court. And and so that's how
it was for me in a GM spot. But I

(49:53):
had a guy in Mike that I can go and say, hey, man,
like how does this part work? You know, not sure
you know about this? And so this year I'm more
comfortable because there are more things that have come up,
like okay, like I know how to handle that, and
you know, go through that phase of it. But that's
the that's really it. Like the more time on task,
the more comfortable you're gonna be.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
With Mike and his departure from the Titans, it seemed
a little bit abrupt because I think, as as a
fan base, Jackie McPherson with the Titans hat in the back,
he's been a longtime Titans fan. A lot of people
were saying like, oh, okay, we obviously have issues because
we're not wanting a whole lot of games and Mike's
not the problem. And then shortly after the season end, Mike,
Mike is gone.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
How was that transition for y'all? How how those discussions
for what you can say.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
I'd say it was it was it was tough. That
day was really tough. I speak personally, it was one
of those you know, and this is just being full transparent,
you know. When it happened, I called my wife and
I was like, hey, like this this just happened. And

(51:00):
and the first thing my wife says is, you know,
you need to call Rea, which is my daughter. And
I'm like why She was like, because she doesn't need
to hear that coach got fired from one of the
kids in school, you know, because my kids don't have
social media, and so my daughter had a really close
relationship with Mike and if you look on her screensaver

(51:21):
on her phone right now, it's a picture of her
and Mike, you know, and that hasn't changed. And so
you know, not only to have that happen to him,
but to now I got to communicate this to my daughter,
you know, and then to have my he's now seven
year old son, who he thinks he's the GM and
the owner and the head coach. He legitimately when he

(51:46):
got out of school, my wife told him and he
was like, like, what are you doing? Like my son said,
this to me, you know what I mean. And so
it was tough, you know, it was tough. And then
to you know, go out and you know, you again,
I'm not on social media, but you can feel heat,
you know what I mean, you can you can feel heat.

(52:07):
And I knew what it was, but I also knew
that it was, you know, unfortunate that it happened. And
I and and again listen, Mike will be coaching at
no time. You know, he'll be back on the sideline
in no time, and he's going to do well wherever
he goes, because that's just in his DNA and who
he is. But you know, I knew after that happened,

(52:27):
it was no time to sit back and soak and
you know, lick your wounds. It was like, we have
to deliver the next guy, you know, and how And
it was a man. That happened on a Tuesday, and
literally you work through Tuesday night putting the list together.

(52:47):
And mind you, I've never interviewed a head coach before,
you know what I mean. So then now yeah, and
so now it's like you spend you spend Tuesday identifying
a list, right, And that's a lot of conversations with
a lot of people. You do that until Wednesday, and
then you get the request out to the clubs because
it's that time of year everybody's trying to interview. And

(53:09):
then you spend all day Wednesday, all night Wednesday, all
through Thursday putting the structure in the interview together, also
scheduling interviews, and then boom Friday, you have your first interview,
you know what I mean. And so oddly enough Calli
was our first interview, and so you try to for

(53:31):
me personally, I was like, you know, we need to
be ahead of the curve, you know, when it comes
to it, We need to be ahead of the whole
hiring cycle because there were so many jobs open, and
we were like, you don't want to get behind in
this phase. And so we were, you know, we were
very detailed, and you know, we took a really good

(53:54):
approach to it. You know. However, it was like it
was pretty clear, you know, once we sat with Calli
that that he was the guy.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
I got a two part question. As you were experiencing
the interview process for the first time, what do you
feel like ended up being the most important question in
the interview? And then the second question is what jumped
out about Cali that was like, we can't really let
him hypothetically leave the building.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
Yeah, so I think the biggest thing for me, And again,
I've been around Rabes, I've been around Kyle Shanahan, I've
been around Jeff Fisher, been around Sean McVay. These guys
are excellent at situational football, you know, just overall just
situations of the game. And so it was talking about

(54:38):
concepts like that, you know, in the interview, but then
you follow it up with who's your coaching staff? Who's
your coaching staff gonna be? And again, anybody can come
in and say, you know, I'm gonna hire Vince Lombardi
be my head coach, Bill Belichick's gonna be the decordinator,
and Bill Walsh is gonna be my offensive coordinator. You know,
but who can you really deliver? One thing that stood

(55:00):
out with CALLI was he had a depth chart of coaches.
And I'm not saying when I say a depth chart,
I don't and he literally had a three deep. But
it wasn't just like all right, I want this guy,
and if I can't get this guy, then this guy's
the backup. And if I can't get him do this. No,
he had these are three tier one, here's three tier two,

(55:23):
here's three tier three. And he had that for every
single position. And so you knew looking at that, like
this guy's put a lot of thought process into this,
you know, and he's well thought out. He's well researched.
And I can say, because I was looking at it
the other day, like we legitimately got number one on
every one of his positions.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Damn he had his old man.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
He did not. He did not have his old man
on the list he was. And I talked in the interview.
I was like, hey man, elephant in the room, what's
up with pops? Are we trying to heat And he
was like, hey man, honestly, we haven't had to come conversation.
He said. We talked about it briefly last year and
just ultimately decided that it wasn't the best thing. And

(56:07):
he was like, we haven't had the conversation. Man.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
That's perfectly aligned with what he said, because he had
said the same thing, like when the opportunity might have
come up last year, his dad was essentially like no.
And then after when he gets this job, his dad
calls me. I was all think about it without even
any context.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yeah, yeah about it.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
I'll be honest with you, because I I called Bill,
I called him big coach. I've asked big coach. You know.
I was like, there was it ever a thing? Because
I know from my dad, my dad always wanted to
coach me, and my dad ended up being my position
coach in Dallas. And that lasted two weeks, you know,
and it was like, this is not gonna work. Is
it didn't work? But you know he was like he said,

(56:49):
Bill told me. He said, it wasn't until I watched
this press conference that I really started thinking about it. Really, yeah,
he said, it wasn't until he watched the press.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
His press comments was a little bit emotional when talking
about his wife and everything, and it was really.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Cool to see.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
Yeah, And like I said this, and you know, when
you guys come around like this coaching staff is it's
it's something man like the defensive staff they are they're
their own people, and our offensive staff and just you know,
just to be through the building and the energy and
the juice you know that's in the building, and it's

(57:24):
just it's just been cool. And again, you I know
some of these guys because I've worked with them and
a lot of guys I don't know, but I mean
we're a couple of months in and it feels like
I've known these dudes forever.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Yeah, you feel like that was that was one that's
been one of the bigger differences, the juice and energy
with the staff and in the building.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
Well, I say this, I say the I know when
CALLI was putting his staff together, and the cool you
know thing that he afforded me was he was like, hey, man, like,
I don't want to just hire people, right, just hire
my buddies. He was like, I want you to feel
good about the coaches that I want. He was like,
so let's interview them. And he was like, and I
want you in the interview to, you know, ask as

(58:02):
many questions, you know. And so everybody that we brought in,
like I was a part of interviewing them and getting
to know them. And so you feel that. But the
one thing that CALLI talks about a lot is connectiveness.
And he was like, in our staff, we have to
be the example of that for our locker room, you
know what I mean. And so it's those guys are

(58:22):
always together, never not together, you know, And like I said,
it's just a cool group of dudes, and it's competitive
as competitive as hell. We even have like a four
thirty workout group with our strength coach, and it's like
anywhere from ten to twelve of us at four thirty.
And listen, when I'm out there, it looks pitiful, you

(58:43):
know what. I like running hundreds and you know, all
these things. But it's another way for us to connect,
you know, and build together. And I think the players
see it, you know, and feel like, hey man, these
dudes are really together and they're not just talking.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, it's sick to see that you guys are gonna
line because it seems like that's always like a main
thing of the downfall of a program, whether it's college
or NFL, Like the ad and the head coach don't
get along, that falls apart, and then inevitably.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Both of them are go on.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
And with you and Kelly, it just seems like just
hearing you guys both talk. So because we've shot these
episodes within what two days, hearing you guys both talk,
you seem so aligned on the vision and what you
guys want to do. But it took a lot to
get there. You look at the end of this past
season and you're looking at a pretty destroyed roster the
King leaves, you know, you're missing a lot of pieces

(59:31):
and it's essentially like an everest to build up. And
now we're sitting in the middle of May, and you guys,
are the Titans are in the best position in the
world because you look at the power rankings of the
NFL and everyone thinks you guys are shit. But if
I were to read you a list of your roster
and you'd say, is this team gonna be good or bad?

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Just talent alone?

Speaker 1 (59:50):
It's like these boys can they got something cooking over there.
So truly the best position you can possibly be in
in May before the coming up football season. Like what
when you were looking at this big project going into
twenty twenty four, where was the starting point for y'all?

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
I mean, honestly, the starting point. It didn't start when
Calli got here, you know what I mean? Because the
free agency work, the free agency part, it was, the
front end of the work was done in December, you know,
with the staff that we have, and so when Cali came,
obviously scheme changes, so some players are shifted in move

(01:00:27):
like okay, this guy fits better, you know now, And
so that's the adjustment. The cool thing that him and
his staff did when they came in, they we all
met all our scouts, and we're lucky because all of
our college scouts lived here in town, and so we
had our whole staff and the whole coaching staff. And
then they showed us they put highlight tapes together positional profiles. Hey, look,

(01:00:51):
I want my left tackle to look like this. This height,
this weight, this arm length, this speed. Here are the
traits that we're looking for with examples, right, and so
now you know, we get to see it. We get
to see the visual. Okay, well, now we know what
they're looking for in each one of these positions on
the team, and it makes it easier for us to
go hunt and go find it. So that makes our

(01:01:13):
job easier. But just even looking at it, it's like,
you know, obviously, to you know, lose a player like Derek,
Like that was the number one question I got the
most when I was around town, like, hey, better than
I let Derek leave? Or what's going on with Derek?
Like I understand the magnitude of that because in my mind,
you know, prior to coming here, when you thought about

(01:01:35):
the Tennessee Titans. You thought about Mike Rabel, You thought
about Dereck Henry, you know, and Taylor m to one,
you know, and so cornerstone, you know what I mean,
Cornerstone people Argerschule, and so you know that's these guys
are are identifying factors for this football team and the

(01:01:58):
way the football team played, and so you want to
keep some of that. But then it's like, all right,
how are we going to build this in Cali's image
and what is it gonna take for his scheme? And
so you have to make the tough decisions, you know
what I mean, and you have to be aligned, you know,
in those decisions. And so we start piecing it together.

(01:02:18):
And then again you and you hear me talk about it.
A lot is relationships, you know. I mean, if you
look at our free agency class, there are relationships all
along the way. You get a Calvin Ridley because you
have a relationship, you know, or I'm not even gonna
say we had a relationship. We created one, you know,

(01:02:38):
out of thin air. And being able to just be
relatable is what got him here, you know, cheat oh Bay.
He was with Cali for how many years in Cincinnati,
so he kind of knows what the program is going
to be. You know, Tony Pollard's from Memphis, you know,
wanted the opportunity to raise his kids, you know at home,
you know where he grew up. Gives you a leg up,

(01:03:01):
you know, all these things, you know, coming to play,
And like I said, this city in this state is
it's like you said, it's slept On. You know, it's
slept On. I've never been anywhere in the in the
National Football League where all your scouts lived in the
town like that is an that's a competitive advantage. And
then think about just historically you weren't drafted here, but

(01:03:25):
where do you live now in Nashville. Every player that
comes here, whether they were drafted here, signed a long
term deal or a one year deal, they come here
and they stay yea, And so it's weird.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
You see a lot of the tight ends too, and
the off season kid on them like people.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
Everybody comes here. So it's a competitive advantage and we
just put ourselves in position to take advantage of that,
you know what I mean. And like you said when
we were walking up to the bus, like it's like
an unwritten thing with this city. You know, and we'll
say higher profile people like those people feel comfortable here.
The people in the city show you love, but they

(01:03:58):
respect your space. So everybody here you feel a part
of the community. I'm leaving my daughter's flag football game
a couple of weeks ago, and I looked at my
wife and I was like, of all the places we've
ever lived, like, I feel a part of the community
here when I'm at her games, my standing with the team,
none of that matters. I'm just one of the crazy

(01:04:19):
dads in the stands giving the refs hell, you know
what I mean, And like I don't have to wear
Titans GM hat. Yeah, I'm just Rhea's dad, you know,
at the game and I'm cheering, like my daughter's team
they won, They won the championship for the third year
in a row for a girl's flag and I'm standing
on the top of the stands screaming three peat and

(01:04:41):
got the crowd going. And you know what I mean,
Like my daughter hurt her back in one of the
tournament games. I'm down there stretching her out, you know
what I mean. Like, I'm just being a dad, and
I think this city is what allows that to happen. Like,
I don't have to always feel on if you will,
I could just be one the people. And that is
a true competitive vantish about being here when.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
You look at you, Bob, Calvin Ridley, and I think
when I think Calvin Ridley obviously is an awesome talent
and wrongly accused for gambling as well, but that's a
different story. He goes from the Jags to hear and
during this press conference he's like, honestly, I want to
stay with the Jaguars. As you see that as a
pro or a con when hearing that statement, because to me,
it's like, now, you know, two times a year he's
got those he's got those games circled because they you

(01:05:26):
get in your delusional football mind that we've all had
use that as oh they didn't want me when.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Maybe the number was just a little too big.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
No, I'll be I'll be perfectly honest with you. Everything
was comparable, you know. And he had the he had
the option to go back, whether the numbers, I'm good,
appreciate the offer though Southern hospitality. Uh. He had the
option to go wherever he wanted to go. But I
think it's more of a positive in that we made

(01:05:55):
him comfortable, you know, coming here, and then the lesser
known of the of the deal was again here Nashville, Tennessee.
His wife's family from Huntsville know that right down the road,
you know, makes it an easy transition for her to
still be Now you're closer to your family, you know,

(01:06:15):
and so it again competitive advantage being here in Nashville.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
I have a tier talk for my tier talk for
for rand is you rank them your top three. You
can throw an honorable mentions. You started three.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
I don't know where this is going.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
I think you'll have fun with it. But your tier
talk of your the best, like scouted players you've seen
in your years.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
In my years, Uh, I'm gonna say that I was
of the teams that I played for. And I know
I'm gonna get hell for this because I have a
lot of good relationships with all these.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Dudes I started three.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
If there's one that you're like, damn, he doesn't make it,
but shout him out.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
That's an honorable mass all right. I'll say this, and
it's it's the I'll give you the little synopsis behind it.
I'll say, damn, all right. Three Todd Gurley, coming off
of torn a c l I thought he was still

(01:07:25):
the best player in that draft class and just was
what it was. And he had that short run in
the league. But man, he was explosive and dynamic. And
the problem Number two Nick Bosa outside of my number one,
I don't think I've ever seen anybody play with the

(01:07:46):
type of hand use, you know, and leverage he has.
Nick has this unique thing. And you know Taylor as
a tackle to be able to catch the elbow and
catch the wrists at like a super high rate, like
it's his hand eye is unreal. Number one Aaron Donald,
I think that was easy, man, child, goat if you will. Uh.

(01:08:12):
What I was going to add in before I thought
about one was Fred Warner honorable? Mentioned? What makes Fred
to me is Fred never played in the box in college.
He was like a big nickel where he aligned over
the slot. And you know, shout out to Robert Salah

(01:08:32):
and Demico Ryans. They had a vision for being able
to put him in in the box. Third round pick,
rookie starting at mike, making all the calls and all
the checks, and obviously Fred is Fred is Fred, you know.
And when the schedule came out the other day, my son,

(01:08:52):
my oldest shout out to my boys, Roman and Reese.
Roman says, so when we played the Niners in the preseason,
can I wear my Fred Warner jersey? And I was like,
I was like, I said, I said, you call Fred
because he's my son. Is boys with Fred, like they

(01:09:14):
talk all the time. I say, you call Fred, and
then Fred get you tickets and you sit with Fred's family,
then yes you could wear your freds. So, by all means,
but those would be my four shout out to Debo.
I think he created a position in football, and I

(01:09:35):
think he he helped usher in a new way of
what we call positionless football. You know that I've been
a part of. Damn. I left Big trend Out.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
I was thinking to bring that up.

Speaker 4 (01:09:49):
I left Big trend Out.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Arguably the best player in the league couple of years.

Speaker 4 (01:09:54):
Oh yeah, I mean he's yeah, he's You see him
do stuff and you're like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Like that clip against the Cardinals, I.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
Was thinking that I didn't want to, you know, God, yeah,
And I'm glad you said it wasn't. It wasn't Isaiah Simmons.
I won't say it wasn't. No, I know who it was,
and I don't want to say his name, We'll say
it right, Nope.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Pull it up, pull it up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
We'll just we're not talking about it, but just pull
up Trent Williams.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Because that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Not only is that extreme explosion and amazing content contact,
it's also one of those deals where to take the
risks to run full speed at a linebacker and.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Hope you hit him. But it's crazy. That's a crazy
look at him?

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
Just man?

Speaker 4 (01:10:47):
Was that like, you don't expect human of that size
to get on you that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
We're in a four eight forty not not bad body bar,
but he is truly mentor.

Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
You know this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Do you do this cap personally?

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
No? I don't know him personally. Yeah, you've you've been.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Doing an amazing job of not saying names.

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
Yeah, Like that's your you're pros pro in that way.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Do what's the most fascinating thing or something that you
experienced in the front office world that you think players
would be intrigued to know.

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
Most intrigued and fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Whether it has to do with contracts, No.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
I just think learning the business and the one thing
we hear and I'm sure you guys have said that,
Hey man, it's the business I hate that term because
I think saying it's a business, for a lack of
a better way to say it, I feel it's a
cop out because it doesn't allow you to deal with
the emotion of what you're feeling. And I think you're

(01:11:46):
allowed to feel a certain type of way. But when
you say, oh, man, you know it's it's it's a business,
then that gives you that cop out of like okay,
like it's supposed to happen. But I think if if
more guys were in my position to have exposure to
how the business works, and they would understand like, oh okay,

(01:12:06):
I see it clear now, like myself, Like, and I'm
sure you felt the same way as fellow undrafted guys.
You first round guys don't have nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
He's got the red, blue cards, cards.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
Hours, Yeah, just white Like that was me. Yeah, Will come.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Do you remember evaluating Will Compton?

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
I wrote you, I will find the report and I
was I wild text it right, But I will tell
you this. When I was doing my draft process, like again,
I'm realistic, I know what it was. I was like,
I'm at least a third rounder, you know what I mean.
I'm at least a third rounder. And then I remember,
you know, you can't make this up. I got a
call in the fifth round from a team says, we're

(01:12:51):
taking you with our next pick. And I'm in the
room and I'm with my now wife, and my mom
and my brother were in the in the living room,
and so I was like, okay, cool, like I'm excited.
And my wife had just got accepted into grad school
in that same city, and so I was like, this

(01:13:12):
is perfect. And I got up to go tell my
mom and I was like, you know, I'm gonna let
me see it on TV. Yeah, And I sit there
and they announced the pick and it wasn't me, and
I look at her and then the team called right
back last minute we decided to Oh and long story short,

(01:13:35):
I don't think that player made it through the season
with him because I ended up playing with him somewhere
else and so like and hen I end up becoming
really good friends. But a man I had smoked for him.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Fifth round to walking through, walking down.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
But again I thought I was going to be, you know,
wanted to be a first rounder.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
But I was like, at least and you played too,
like you know, hey, we could be one of those
like Bill Belichick just randomly draft somebody in the higher
rounds and just come out of nowhere.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
And listen, I had, I had, I knew what the
signing bonus was going to be, and I'm like, okay,
this is how we gonna allocate the money, and yeah,
we're gonna, you know, planning it out.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
And now, dude, you play with your You played four
your dad for two weeks in Dallas awful heat, and
he cut you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:24):
No. Luckily enough, I had got cut by Indy. This
was my rookie year, signed with Dallas on the practice squad.
My dad was my running back coach. Our running back
room was Eddie George. Julius Jones was their second round
pick that year. We had Richie Anderson. Yeah, that was awful.

(01:14:46):
That was like my worst football experience. Me and my
dad got into a fight. Now it wasn't at like
we had a We went back and forth on the
field to the point where Parcels was like, all right,
that's enough, and so I can tell this story. It's funny.
But my dad shout out to Frank Paranho because he
loves this story. My dad was chirping across the field

(01:15:09):
with chirping back and forth, and so Richie is like, hey,
little bro, like, come on, man, like, you know Dad
loves you. So I say some choice words about that,
and then my dad yells across, hey Richie slapping. So
I yelled back. I'm like, no, you slap me. So whatever,
I go home, and now I'm like, I'm gonna know

(01:15:31):
this whole playbook. Like he's never gonna be able to
say nothing to me. I'm gonna know it better than him.
Mind you, I'm living with him, right, I'm on the couch.
I'm on the couch and I'm highlighting and taking notes
and I'm tearing this playbook up. And so I doze
off and I'm sleep and I hear the door open.
But my cousin lived there too, so I was like, oh,

(01:15:53):
it's just Chris. Then now I'm oh and I look
up at my day dad standing over me, and he's like,
I slapped you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
Now what?

Speaker 4 (01:16:05):
And so I started laughing and I'm like he's like,
what you laughing for? You? You said slap you? I
slapped you. You didn't do nothing, now what. I was like,
I won? He was like, how did you win? I
was like, because it's been on your mind. Ever since
I said it, and I'm like, I was like, and
you know what. I was like, Now, you better take
your ass back to the office before Parcelles finds out

(01:16:25):
you not there. I was like, and I will call
him right now and tell him to you better get
your ass back to the office. He was cutting you.
And then literally like that was like, uh, that was
like a Thursday. That happened Wednesday or Thursday. And then
the following week the coach called to bring me back

(01:16:46):
on the roster, and so they sent my dad home
to like talk me into stand and my dad was like, son,
you gotta go. He was like, because not only is
this gonna give your opportunity to actually play, he was like,
but for the second of our relationship, you got to
get the hell out of here.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
If it wasn't jac or Joel, who would it be.

Speaker 4 (01:17:10):
We'll talk off.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
Before we let him go, because he's got a roll.
You have a twisted question for him. He's GM, he's
not the head man. That's a that's a that's a
question specifically for the head coaches they cut their piece
off for a Super Bowl?

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
Would you I got five kids, so you would I
said I got five kids. I just said I have
five kids.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
All right, we just need you to say yes.

Speaker 4 (01:17:45):
I said I just got five.

Speaker 3 (01:17:47):
We got that insurance.

Speaker 4 (01:17:48):
I got five.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Five kids is a lot of kids. Jaggie Peerson, any questions?

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
Yeah, before we let him.

Speaker 6 (01:17:55):
Go, we asked Calie this question yesterday. But you being
with the Titans very year now you will understand this.
Is there a way to bring back the OG pain
Train video that we play at the beginning of the
fourth quarters because we changed it two years ago. The
fan base needs the O G One back.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
All right, So I'm not familiar with the OG.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
You remember, yes, Okay, So it's Terry Tate office linebacker.
He goes the pain trains coming and then does the woohoo
thing and then Johnny cash fullsome prison blues, right yeah,
starts playing.

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
All right, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
This is awesome, so.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
We too, can we bring that back?

Speaker 4 (01:19:02):
We might be able to do something.

Speaker 6 (01:19:04):
And can busting with the boys be the twelfth Titan
and swing the sort of honor?

Speaker 4 (01:19:11):
Yeah, that would be pretty sweet. I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
There we go.

Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
I think you guys, we have the I think the
crowd will go nuts to see now here's the thing
we have with these two. We gotta cut the mic.
It's got, it's got, it's gotta be it's got to
be a delay so we can at least have the.

Speaker 3 (01:19:31):
Very fair to say.

Speaker 4 (01:19:32):
I will say this.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
Every college we go to, every like we were at
in Atlanta, every spot organization we go to, it's like
they're always like, hey, we're down for you guys to
do this. We've seen some of your stuff. You could
just be on your best behavior. We could. We're capable.
We're capable. It will be on our best behavior.

Speaker 4 (01:19:49):
Like I said, just just they might the might the
MINS button, Yeah, I might need to have that button
seven second delay. Weppreciate you coming on, man. I appreciate
you boys. Man not man, I appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Tell you this bus and all of us in here
are so excited about what the Times are doing. We're
so stoked on what you've done in free agency, in
the draft, all the things about Jacon Latham coming out
and the rest of your draft has been so positive.
People should be excited national Tennessee about what's coming this one.

Speaker 4 (01:20:18):
I appreciate it, man. I just think in the grand
scheme of things, it's it's our job to provide this
this city, in this state with something to cheer for,
you know what I mean. It's something that can identify with.
So let's just stay healthy and get to September.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
Do you think there's a chance that we can get
will comped in a work out in October December?

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
Let's say December December? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
Crazy, you don't want to do that. You want to
do it before Thanksgiving because you know what you're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
Workout October potential sign in December?

Speaker 4 (01:20:44):
Yeah, I mean you can. You can go over to
Fitness nineteen. They got all the equipment you need to
work out. Get you set up over.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
I'm actually on at Boost with a couple of your
guys in the front of it. Matt Miller's Mad Mad
in there.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
I've known Mad since he was in high.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
Yeah matter my guy, man, he does a hell of
a job going to his wedding. Yes, I will be there.
That would be there, just R S v P two
weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
I love it. Well, thank you so much for.

Speaker 4 (01:21:09):
I appreciate you. That was awesome, bro, appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
We could talk all day long too, because man, you're
an undrafted gritty cat Jordan's He's still he's still playing
to he's with the vikings right

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