#810: Terry Real — The Therapist Who Breaks All The Rules

Terry Real is a nationally recognized family therapist, author, and teacher. His book I Don't Want To Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression, the first book ever written on the topic of male depression, is a national bestseller. His new book, Us: Getting Past You & Me to Build a More Loving Relationship is a New York Times bestseller.

Sponsors:

Cresset prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs: https://cressetcapital.com/tim (book a call today)

Ramp easy-to-use corporate cards, bill payments, accounting, and more: https://ramp.com/tim (Get $250 when you join Ramp)

Wealthfront high-yield cash account: https://Wealthfront.com/Tim (Start earning 3.75% Annual Percentage Yield (APY) from program banks on your short-term cash until you’re ready to invest. And when new clients open an account, they can get an extra fifty-dollar bonus with a deposit of five hundred dollars or more.) Terms & Conditions apply. The APY on cash deposits as of 09/26/25 is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum. Tim Ferriss receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage LLC for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage. See full disclosures here.

Timestamps:

[00:00:00] Start.

[00:05:51] The pumpernickel story.

[00:09:44] Wise adult, wounded child, and adaptive child.

[00:11:25] Relational mindfulness.

[00:12:11] Remembering love.

[00:13:29] Why do we remain loyal to bad relationships?

[00:16:58] The RLT stance on taking a position as a therapist.

[00:18:46] Objectivity battles.

[00:24:11] Entering into compassionate curiosity about your partner’s subjective experience.

[00:29:40] Normal marital hatred.

[00:34:19] Taking the first steps toward repair.

[00:37:03] Empathizing with someone whose reality doesn’t match yours.

[00:39:45] Should you stay or should you go? Understanding relational reckoning.

[00:43:41] Leveraging a resistant partner toward therapy.

[00:46:03] The preconditions that must be addressed before RLT can be effective.

[00:48:37] Understanding covert depression in men.

[00:52:52] Determining underlying depression.

[00:54:36] Favored modalities for working with trauma.

[00:55:04] Parsing the patriarchy.

[00:59:35] Taking care of your relationship’s biosphere without being codependent.

[01:03:23] Terry’s prescription for overcoming my own faulty childhood templates.

[01:07:05] Pondering gender expectations and expressions.

[01:13:06] Were Terry’s distinctly different boys raised similarly?

[01:15:05] A good Morani vs. a great Morani.

[01:16:53] The greatest achievement of Terry’s life.

[01:18:44] Advice for people who want to be better parents than the ones they had.

[01:21:17] The typical format of Terry’s men’s group therapy.

[01:23:56] Full-respect living, group guidelines, and boundaries.

[01:25:07] Comparing and contrasting Relational Life Therapy (RLT) with Internal Family Systems (IFS).

[01:27:54] Modern relationship challenges — from polyamory to monogamy.

[01:29:53] The research is clear: Humans are born to be intimate.

[01:32:16] Toxic femininity and the new world order.

[01:34:40] Relational empowerment vs. individual empowerment.

[01:35:45] One up, one down.

[01:37:50] From grandiosity to baseline: Relational joy vs. gratification.

[01:43:06] How to learn more about Terry’s work.

[01:45:16] Recommended reading.

[01:49:09] Terry’s billbo