October 23, 2025 • 38 mins
12th Man Roundtable with HUGH MILLEN and GREGG BELL (Tacoma News Tribune) With the gambling news from the NBA, we start off by discussing gambling in the NFL. What have we seen from the Hawks in the first chunk of the season, both good and bad? Where are the deficiencies- run game, injuries… there’s been a lot. :30- Our 12th Man Roundtable continues as the guys look at Sam Darnold and JSN and the chemistry these two have achieved already. Is Darnold targeting JSN too much? :45- We wrap up the roundtable with final thoughts and a question; is Nick Emmanwori the next superstar in the making?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Happy Thursday, Chuck Poll and Ashley Ryan with you Bucky
out today. But you know something, we have skipped a
couple of thursdays with our twelfth man roundtable. We got
a lot of catching up to do. I got to
find out how the kids are doing in Greg's world,
I got to find out how life is and Hugh
Mill in Manor. So we got a lot of things
to catch up on here and we got to talk
(00:31):
some Seahawks football with our guys here for the next hour.
So Hume Mill and our QB one ore Seahawks inside
of Greg Bell with us here this morning on a
by the way, a crazy day in the National Basketball Association.
And you know, I just had a sales guy come
in and say, do you think maybe that this is
why the NBA put the brakes on expansion? They knew
(00:53):
that they were going to be dealing with this storm.
I'm like, that's not a bad idea, Thanks sales guy.
I'll go back and sell. And then I thought, well,
maybe I should bring this up to Greg and Hugh
because I'll start with you, Greg, in light of what's
happening today in the NBA, do you think other leagues,
most notably the National Football League, are sitting here this
(01:14):
morning like Roger Goodell's got the order out to you know,
mind all p's and q's burn receipts, you know that
sort of thing. Do you think there's a little panic
going on with the other leagues wondering if that finger
is going to be pointed at them anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
No, I think they're copping the receipts of the money
they get from the advertising deals and the partnerships that
they have with betting. And this is the danger that
when you get in bed with the betting community. Everybody
around the NFL, around in the NBA, around Major League Baseball,
around the NHL talks about is bombarded with, inundated with
(01:53):
and benefit in profit from betting. Yet if a player
gets into it, oh holy cow, how did this happen?
They're trying to do two things at once. They're trying
to be having a partnership with the betting community. Fantasy
football is an extension of this. Yet they're trying to
(02:14):
say players, you can't get any of this will all
as the league and owners and the people who make
these contracts to advertise will benefit, But those who play
the game, of course, can't benefit because that would destroy
the integrity of the game. Pete Rosel, back when I
was first starting in this, and you remember Pete Rosel,
(02:38):
he was adamant that he would never put a team
in Las Vegas, and he would never do what has
become the modern day NFL of partnering with betting operations.
Because of this, he knew that he couldn't. It would
be two faced and also practically impossible to marry themselves
with the betting community and all other aspects except the players,
(03:00):
and then tell the players, no, you can't do this.
And then the NBA is finding this impossible. And I'm
the NFL is a pretty powerful organization, and I'm not
I would not be. This is pure supposition for me,
but I have a reason to believe it that this
is going on in the NFL. But the NFL has
enough people to tamp this down and make sure it
(03:20):
doesn't get out. This is everywhere, and then they're trying
to put the genie back in the bottle after it's
well out. It's hypocritical that they take their money from them,
and then they pound the people that the players if
they get involved in it at any time. The NFL's
rules are, by the way, pretty clear. If you're a
team employee, if you get any money from the team.
(03:42):
We're talking John Boyle, Seahawks dot Com, the assistant PR guy,
the guy who mows the lawn at Seahawks headquarters. If
you get any money from the Seahawks, you're not allowed
to bet on professional games in profit from that's period,
point blank. And they've tried to make that a car
blaunch thing. Yet the owners in the NFL benefit from
(04:03):
it monetarily.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Here you played, you were in a clubhouse, you were
operated under these rules. So what are your thoughts about
one way down today in the NBA and how it
might relate to the National Football LEA because gambling very
prevalent obviously in this sport.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Well, I agree most of what Greg said, well articulated.
I would just say from where we might differ, I'll
just say, as a player, my sense, you know, as
a journeyman bouncing around. So I was in a lot
of locker rooms, and there's kind of two hard and
fast rules, one internal one external that are just their
(04:41):
non negotiables. Internally, don't steal, you do not steal the
locker rooms are open, do not steal, and then externally
can't gamble.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Very simple.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I don't see why it's a hard rule to understand.
I don't see why it's a hard rule to fall.
The league's credibility rests on fans believing that every single
play is honest competition, and UH, I think it's it's
pretty axiomatic. And so I think that players, Yeah, I greg,
(05:15):
I think that they're you know, the players ideally some
of the contracts that they're receiving. UH is indirectly, you know,
from a result of the popularity of the of the league,
and the popularity of the league is is uh in
a growing extent when you consider fantasy football. Gambling is
a big part of that. We can understand that. But look,
(05:36):
you're either grown ass man and you can understand these
terms and operate within them UH in manners that are
uh you know, you know, in accordance with the law
and permissibility within the league, or you can't. And if
you can't, it's a hard out. You're gone. And so
I I think that the the the NFL is unequivocal
(05:56):
in how they they declare this proclamation to the players.
And if the players don't want to find it. Guess what,
I hope law enforcement. I hope the NFL. I hope
everybody there's security on the teams that are finding these
guys out no talents, you're gone for You're gone for good.
And if you do it enough in a way that's criminal,
you're going to be in prison. I don't I don't
think it's a hard thing to understand.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like the way you put that,
all right, Hugh Millan, Greg Bell with us. It's our
twelfth Man round table. This was just in reaction to
the big news story of the day. But we have
gathered here to talk to some Seahawks football and we
haven't done it in a couple of weeks. So let's
get to it and you. I'll start with you. Here.
(06:38):
You sit at the bye week. You got a five
and two football team, which puts you near the top
of the entire conference. You had some difficulties a couple
of weeks ago defensively, but got back to playing some
Mike McDonald defense in the last couple of weeks. You
haven't played the toughest schedule in the world, but it
hasn't been a soft one either. And here you sit
(06:58):
off to a pretty good start. So how are you
feeling about the Seahawks five and two heading into the
bye week?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, I think that they're right there in a clump.
If there's a horse race, what's the uh, what's the
half pole whatever? You're almost halfway there, and and there's
only one team that's ahead of you, the Packers at
four to one and one. So that's a half a game.
There's a bunch of teams clumped up at five and two.
You're a playoff team if the playoffs started. Now, I
(07:29):
think you're you know, you've you've operated without a good
portion of your secondary.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
They they've never really had everybody other than the first
four plays before nick Eman Worry was injured. And so
I think the idea of getting Witherspoon back, of getting
your quarterback of your secondary back, Julian Love, I really
like where this football team is. And and I I
(07:57):
look at at football in five phases about twenty percent, Uh,
how you run the ball, how you throw it, how
you defend the run, how you defend the pass, and
and special teams. And let's just set special teams to
the side. I think that the best part of their
team is their their rush defense. I mean they're number
(08:17):
one in rushing yards per game, fewest yards, they're number
two in fewest rushing yards per attempt. H. Then from there,
I think the next best is is how they pass
the football with Sam Donald. I'm not going to go
all through all the stats, but I'm looking at a
lot of stats with Sam Donald, uh in the top five.
(08:39):
Then I think then comes past defense and and and
there's a lot of things to be excited about with that,
as we said, with the secondary coming back, and then
and then the rush offenses. I think of those five phases,
if I'm right on that, I think that's the worst.
The run percentage, the percent that they run the football
(08:59):
is is highest in the league. They're number one at
forty nine percent of all plays. Their rushing yards per
game is only nineteenth, rushing yards per tempt is only thirtieth.
So I think there's some areas to improve and and
they'll be looking to do that. But I think that
the Sea Arks are well positioned.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I'd ask you, Greg, where do you think the team
feels most satisfied and where are they still really concerned
what area of the football team well?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
First, Chuck I was going to start the whole show,
but because you've just disowned football the last couple weeks.
It's one hundred yard field and they play eleven on
each side to put the ball across the goal. On
you and I have been staying in football the time.
We just wanted to crush you and you're brown. Thank you,
thank you well.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Appreciate this, Appreciate the update, the refresh.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's football one on one in the nutshe Chuck. We
talked about it since they hired Clint Kubiak, that they
they were going to run the ball, come hell or
high wak, they were going to run the ball into
brick walls and they were going to be times fan
of going why are they running the ball? And the
statistics a huge just articulated is exactly that they lead
the league or second and lead the league and rushing
(10:14):
attempts and how often they run the ball. They're damn
near fifty to fifty, which nobody in the NFL is
even close to. Yet they're thirtieth in yards per carry.
You're running at the most and you're gaining the least yards,
but when you're running it the most. The math doesn't
even math that they're nineteenth and rushing. It just doesn't
make sense to me because when you watch them play,
they're going nowhere in the run most of the games.
(10:37):
They've only had one one hundred yard rushing game. That
was by Kenneth Walker in Week two at Pittsburgh. They
had one hundred and five yards, seventy nine of them
in the second half, So they really haven't functioned in
the run game except for one half of one game
out of seven, how they're designed to. In that game,
he had thirteen carries for one hundred and five yards,
so they were chunk runs in the second half against
(10:59):
the steel that allow them to pull away for a
fourteen point win. The point is they're winning despite themselves.
They're winning despite how they are designed to and need
to play offensively. And I'm still going to say this
until we see otherwise, and we'll find out. And they
play the Rams for the first time on November sixteenth,
they ain't beating the Rams in the forty nine ers,
(11:21):
they're not getting home playoff games. They're not winning the division.
Then again, anywhere they want to go until they run
the ball, and they have to run the ball against
the forty nine ers and rams to keep those defensive
fronts honest or else it's going to be everyone in
on Sam Darnold and his watch his efficiency go down
from seventy plus percent that it's been so far this year.
So they're encouraged by that. They're encouraged, as you said
(11:43):
that they have not had their entire defense, especially their
starting defensive secondary hole since the fifth play of the season,
the fifth play of the season, when nick Evan Moorey
went down with the high ankle spring when DeMarcus Lawrence
that was his fourth play. It was the team's fifth play,
but it was Nicky even Worey's fourth play. That fifth
play of the season is the last time they were whole.
(12:06):
Devin Witherspoon got hurt that day running into Josh job
on an interception he's had and bruce knee that he's
been going off site to get tests and seeing if
it can get better quickly. It hasn't now the last
three weeks. Julian Love's missed with hamstring. When Nicki mcmurrey
came back, Love and Witherspoon went out, and then Rik
Wollan had a concussion. Ric Wollan might have been traded
(12:28):
by now if he wasn't hurt, you can't trade a
guy who's hurt. That's a league rule, of a players'
union rule. When they get Witherspoon and Love back, which
it looks like it's going to be at Washington the
next game November second, then they'll be whole on defense.
Their defensive front has kept them afloat to get the
pressure it has gotten off and without blitzing the seven
(12:49):
sacks at Jacksonville being the prime example of that. To me,
the MVPs of the team have been the front four guys,
Leonard Williams, DeMarcus Lawrence, Byron Murphy, Jared Read. They're the
MVPs of the first seven games because without them, teams
would have thrown like Baker Mayfield every week on them,
and they have nobody need.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I think we may have lost, Greg, Greg Froz on
us areas.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
All right, all right, man, all right.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Hugh, I don't know if you Yeah, I got a
lot to jump off on there, so just go where
you want.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, yeah, well, a couple of things. Let's get a
little bit granular on the rush offense, because we heard
all summer and we heard when Clint Kubiak was signed
about the outside zone. Uh, and we've I think we've
discussed some of the schematics of that, but let's let's
kind of do a review since we're in the bye week.
So the Seahawks in terms of their outside zone percentage
at twenty five point two percent. That's seventh in terms
(13:45):
of the percent that's fifty one attempts, so they're at
about seven point three outside zones per game. Their average
now they're their overall average is three point seven, which
includes that outside zone, but the outside zone average gets
a little better. It's four point two. That's eighteenth. By
(14:06):
the way, as a percentage, Bezon Robinson is the king.
He's at fifty seven percent of all of his runs
are outside zone. So the Falcons have majored in that.
Just to put that into context. So obviously that if
you take away the outside zone, uh, that three point
seven is gonna go even worse, and they're thirtieth in that.
(14:28):
But let's talk about Canine versus zach Sarbonnes. If you
go all running backs of twenty attempts or more on
the outside zone, Canine at five point five yards per
attempt is fourth, and there are nineteen running backs who
have twenty or more outside zone. Zach Sarbonney averages one
(14:51):
point nine yards on the outside zone. Now it's just
sixteen attempts, and maybe he's had some bad luck, but
the you know, the gap between five point five and
one point nine Zach Sharbonnay is the lowest of all
qualifying running backs who've had the outside zone. So I
think that that something that they might consider, like the
(15:13):
they're a poor running team, but they're average at the
outside zone, but they're good with canine running. So if
we want to just kind of filter that thing, one
could be led to the hey, let's get some more
outside zones going with knine. Now you'd say, well, if
you have a greater frequency, are you going to be
as effective? You're going to be a five point five.
(15:34):
I understand that, but but it's something that we discussed
a lot the outside zone, Greg and and and that's
kind of the assessment of where we are. They're they're
poor otherwise, they're middle of the road, uh in the
outside zone, but they're they're pretty darn good with canine
at it.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
And again it bears mentioning again they are any maintenance
program with Kenneth Walker, they're not playing him as they
wish they could. Good, they're playing him as they have to.
He's had a foot issue that's related to the ankle,
the high ankle sprain, and he put him on injured
reserve at the end of the end of last season
in December, and they're trying to get him through seventeen games,
(16:12):
and he's really held bet on getting through seventeen games
because it is a contract year for him. Every week
is on audition for him to get a job somewhere
else next year for a new contract and may not
be in Seattle. So it drives fans nuts. I get
texts from friends during games and people on Twitter ask
me why are they replacing Walker in the middle of
drives And he'll go Casper after a couple of six
(16:35):
yard runs and then you don't see in the rest
of the drive. It's because they don't think they can
give him a full twenty plus carries seventy percent of
snaps in a game that he won't last if healthwise
his footworm hold up. And that's why you've seen Sharb
not to mention that. They of course, Charbona is the
second the two minute back. Charbona is offen the third
(16:57):
down back, and in NFL games, third down and too
met drills often become a preponderance of your snaps. Then
that's how Kenneth Walker ends up with fewer snaps than
the less productive Jack Sharboning. To me, when I watch
him without the numbers, charbon At seems a little less
decisive and sometimes a lot less decisive cutting into the holes.
(17:19):
Sometimes Walker's too decisive. There were a couple times against
Houston where he just cut before the hole even developed,
before the lineman even got to their assigned gap. But
suffice to say that the run game is broken because
the offensive line is not pushing guys out of the hole.
The zone blocking scheme, you get an assigned spot, you
have to be there at time and place when the
(17:39):
running back marries up with the timing of the play,
and if you don't move guys out of the hole,
they're not going anywhere. And that is the simple explanation
for what's wrong with the run game. They are worth searching,
is what Mike McDonald says, which means they are going
to revot. They are reevaluating it. That's byweek the type
of runs they're calling. The situation since they're calling them.
(18:01):
They need an overhaul, and they also need their outifitsive
linemen to do their jobs, which they haven't done in
pretty much most of the last decade.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Well, I can think of a couple of guys that
are masking the inefficiencies in the run game, and I
want to talk about them in the next segment and
talk about who might be emerging as the next Sea
Hawks star as well. We've got Greg Bell, We've got
Hugh Millon. Turns out football still is around. That's what
Greg is letting me know that it didn't go away
(18:30):
in the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So I guess we'll talk about it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM. Oh, it's Thursday,
and we have reassembled the team for the most part.
BUCkies not here, but we do have our experts every
Thursday for an hour most Thursdays, they join us for
(18:57):
the twelfth Man Roundtable. Our QB one You Millan is
with us. Our Seahawks insider Greg Bell is with us.
It is bye week, but by gum, we're going to
talk some Seahawks football for an entire hour here today.
And so we kind of finished off talking about a
couple of the deficiencies of this team and still not
being able to establish the run this season, injuries in
(19:19):
the secondary, a pass rush that disappeared against the Tampa
Bay Buccaneers. But boy, here you cover up a lot
of warts when you've got the number one rated quarterback
in PFF and you've got the number one wide receiver
by two hundred yards in the National Football League, Sam
Donald and JSN. I think, in an honest moment, John
Schneider has to admit they're even better than I thought
(19:41):
they were going to be. Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And you look at the yards per attempt Sam Donald
number one, yards per completion number one, and then when
you go percentage of completions that are ten or more yards,
Sam Donald's number one, fifty eight percent. I'm gonna mention
number two for obvious reasons. It's Michael Pennix at fifty
(20:06):
two point one percent. The gap between one and two
is greater in the gap between two and seven. That again,
you know, so he's pushing the ball down the field
that I actually had in the stat portal that that
I actually the NFL has a they have a category
called checkdown. His checkdown percentage, now that would be subjective.
(20:30):
That's somebody going through and he is. He's thirtieth so
meaning meaning he he had out of thirty two quarterbacks,
he's checking down almost the least. His off target percentage.
Here's another one. The average in the NFL is ten
point four percent of quarterbacks have off target and even
(20:52):
with Darnold pushing the ball that the greed that we're
talking about, his off target percent is six point three percent.
That's number two in the end. NFL like you just
the longer you pour over the stats, the more you're looking. Said,
this guy's having a hell of the season, and Jysn,
what can you say? I thought there might be a
concern whether he could win on the outside to the
(21:14):
level that he was winning on the inside. I thought
he's an elite inside guy, but maybe just kind of
slightly above average outside. Well, I can kind of table
that concern for a long time because he's just shown
he can do it all. I think the only concern,
Greg is that that if when I envisioned the Seahawks
(21:37):
reaching their ultimate potential and whatever that means, and obviously
we're talking about how that might play out in January
and maybe even hopefully February February. I just I cannot
get my arms around that this is the best ratio
when when you had JSN had fourteen targets the other
night and Cooper Cup had one, the other starting receiver.
(22:00):
I don't think they're realizing their highest potential. So that
would be my one concern in the passing game is
is it too much JSN center?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
And when you ask Darnold about that, he says, these
are my progressions. I asked him why he threw on
fourth and one on a rollout. He had Barner in
the flat in the third I think it was the
third quarter against Houston, had Barner in the flat, and
then he had JSN on an eighteen yard out route.
He threw the eighteen yard out route and converted it
and they got a touchdown in that drive. I think
(22:29):
it was a touchdown on drive. I was watching two
games at once that night. So the point is he's
going to Smith and Jigby even when the play, I mean,
most quarterbacks are going to throw the three yard out
route there. He said on that particular play he thought
the linebacker would tackle Barner immediately and he had less
of a chance of getting a first down than JSN
beating his guy Smith and Jigba was beating every coverage
(22:52):
they've seen Shell, they've seen double coverage, they've seen man,
they play zone, they've shading and rolling coverage to his side, backside,
they've been throwing the JSN. He's going out of his
way to throw to Smith and jig but regardless of formation,
regardless of coverage, regardless of pressure, and so far it's winning.
But the disparity that Hughes talking about. The coaches are
(23:16):
aware of it and they're trying to even that out somewhat.
But the guy who's making the decisions throwing the ball
doesn't care about that. He's just going with what he
sees as progression and his best chance to complete a pass.
It is an interesting down the line. Defenses are going
to scheme that way and to see if they can
(23:37):
tilt the tables completely in coverage against Smith and jig
and if Donald's still gonna throw that way. That is
a cat and mouse game that may rear itself when
they play the Rams twice and the forty nine ers
coming up. But so far, it doesn't matter what coverage,
it doesn't matter what situation Donald's deciding he's throwing to
(23:57):
Smith and jigg With. They especially do it. I don't
have the numb in front of me, just anecdotally. They
especially do it on sudden change. You'll notice when they
get stops on turnover, on downs or interceptions and fumbles,
they take deep strikes with Smith and Jigba almost every time.
They did it four different times against Houston, and they
had a lot of opportunities because Houston went for fourth
(24:18):
downs three times and missed it. They went right to
Jasen down the field on the quick strike after the
sudden change. It's it's kind of like the old Pete
Carroll defense. Around here. We're going to tell you exactly
how we're doing it. We're gonna do it. Try to
stop it, you can't stop us. And that's what they're
doing with jaa center. Now.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, it's interesting because I remember Hugh like the NBA
used to be about like balance the floor, everybody can shoot,
And then all of a sudden, this guy named Michael
Jordan came around and they're like, why we want everybody
to shoot when we just want him to have the
ball and then let's just get four complimentary pieces around
him and if he wants to shoot every time. He
can shoot every time, but we're gonna trust him to
(24:55):
throw it to the open man. You really den never
had that advantage in the National Foot League. I'm with you,
like with the balance, But I just heard Gronk say Saturday, man,
Jamar Chase is getting targeted twenty three times in a game,
and it worked out for the Bengals on Thursday night.
Justin Jefferson should get targeted twenty three times a game
as well. And I'm starting to wonder if Jsen is
(25:17):
not in this category with Jamar Chase and with and
with Justin Jefferson, and maybe Sam should be throwing him
the ball every single time that he's open.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
What do you think about that? Yeah, I think there's
some truth to that. And and look, I've there's a
lot of layers to this discussion. The play that Greg
references that on the fourth down, Yeah, he had Barner
on what's called a slip route where he's going when
they snap the ball, he's behind the guard. So by
the time he gets out to the flat in man
to man coverage, that guy's waiting for him. So I'm
(25:49):
not surprised. I mean, tell me, the greatest tight end
receiving Kellen Winslow and his prime wasn't going to be
open on that play and JSN one on that play.
That's absolutely true, and we're seeing a lot of that.
But I watched the tape and there are are times
where Tory Horton is wide freaking open on a dagger
(26:12):
route and Cooper Cup has been open as well. I
think even from a play calling standpoint, having UH thrown
just throwing, just throwing the ball out in the flat
or a wide receiver screen, to me, like, if I
throw a wide receiver screen, I'm not gonna throw it
to JSN usually because that's an opportunity for those to go.
(26:34):
And I just i'd compare it to the US nuclear strategy,
the strategic doction UH of the triad. Greg you're in
the military, you know you go. You want to have
a third of your your arsenal in in in ground
based ICBMs, a third of your arsenal in in subs,
and a third of your arsenal in in bomber base
which are retaliatory, but at least in the event that
(26:57):
that the Soviets or somebody else knock out one of
those phases, you still have two other robust phases. And
so I don't want to come in in January and
be doing a post game where where we lose nineteen
to thirteen in a playoff game and a team figured
out how to corral JSN and and you hadn't developed
(27:22):
the the cohesion and the ability to get production out
of those other receivers, including the tight ends. So that
would be my concern. Look, look, if they're if they're
not going to roll the coverage to them, they're gonna
give him single coverage. And on that play the Greg
describes he Greg is absolutely right, and Sam Darnold's absolutely right.
Was man to man coverage. Barner's covered in the flat
(27:45):
throw it uh to uh JSN on the out route.
But I think as a comprehensive idea, I'll stand by
I think that they need to change the balance a little.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Great it's to do that, though, right, because I mean,
Arnold is leading the league and everything, and he's this
wildly successful quarterback doing it this way, I could see intrinsically,
why even if coach is telling him to do it,
why when he's actually throwing the ball in games, he won't.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
They like having a hot hand, Like why should I
stop shooting thirty five footers.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I'm hitting. I'm hot. Well, there are times where there
was fairly significant intermediate completions to be had that are
fairly easy that you say, well, well, whoa, whoa. If
you're just doing quarterback one oh one, the matchup, the
coverage where it is, you'd say, take a look at
(28:36):
Horton on that eighteen yard dagger. It's wide ass open.
It's a laying you know. So I'm mostly on it. Look,
if i haven't made myself clear, I'll say it again.
I love Sam Donald as a quarterback, as a guy,
as the leader of this team, as a toughness as
he's pushing the ball down the field. I am not
(28:56):
here to criticize Sam Donald. I'm loving what I'm seeing
as a Seahawks fan. I'm just trying to say, hey,
you're always trying to reach your highest potential, right and
and to just say well, we're good, let's not try
and improve. That's not gonna get you a championship. Usually,
that's not what Super Bowl teams do, is sitting there
(29:17):
say we're good. No, you're always looking to try and
get better. And I think they can be a little
better on offense, score a few more points and be
even better in the passing game with it just a
little bit of a tweak, A little bit of a tweak.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Fourteen to one is start. I'll say that we have
that ratio times cup twice.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Here mail at Greg Mell with his twelfth man round table.
I still want to talk about what looks to be
a breakout star for the Seahawks all and our last
segment together, and I'm sure we got some other things
to discuss. Sports Radio ninety three point three kh A
r F M all right, twelve man roundtable Today, We've
(30:09):
got Humillan with us. We've got Greg Bell with us.
Normally have Greg make a prediction, but we don't have
a game. It is a bye week, and so I'm
going to give him the humill In treatment today. I
am going to let both you and Greg just talk
about whatever they want about the Seahawks with their last thoughts.
But before we do that, I do want to ask
you both about nick em and Warri. I'll start with you, Greg.
(30:31):
Are we looking at somebody that is just about ready
to break out as a star, maybe even eventual superstar
in this league?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Are you surprised. We've talked about this since what may.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
You well, I mean second round pick you have, you
have belief, you like like what you see, but until
they actually do it on the football field, you don't know.
And man, it is really pop. He's really popping. I'll
just say that.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Well, McDonald is using exactly as he said he would
the night he drafted him. He said he was Kyle
Hamilton and Cam Chancellor. I mean, come on, he adn't
even played a game yet. He would be a national
star if he hadn't gotten hurt and missed a month
and a half with the high ankle sprain. He's the
best of many good things he's doing. I talked to
McDonald about this on Monday. The best of many good
(31:20):
things he's doing is tackling. His defense, especially in the secondary,
have had problems tackling this year. Not even worried when
they were at their worst tackling even worry was not
even on the field he was out injured. He tackles
in what McDonald always describes as the alley. That's basically
the slot down the hash marks, and that's where a
lot of bubble screens go. It's where slamt patterns go.
(31:42):
That's where runners tend to go after they catch swing
passes or short quick throws. That alley between the outside
corner and the inside safeties are where a lot of
lost yards for defenses come in the NFL with the
quick game in passing these days, well, when they come
at even Worry with that stuff, he goes and tackles
them and they go right to the ground. Even Worry
(32:03):
is the Ernest Jones of the secondary. When he hits guys,
they go straight down. There's no yards after contact, there's
no breaking tackles. By and large, he's their surest tackler
next to Ernest Jones right now, and at his position
slot nickel, which they're using them, he's the primary nickel
guy right now. I think he's going to be the
nickel guy when Witherspoon comes back. I think Woolven's gonna
(32:24):
be the odd man out when they're just gonna have
Witherspoon and Joe be the outside and keep Emon Worry
is the inside. Because he's too valuable as a tackler.
They're using them as a blitzer, they're using him as
a coverage safety, they're using him as a run stopper.
He is Kyle Hamilton for Seattle right now, and he's
only what three four to four full games into his career.
(32:45):
He's his advertised He is what Mike McDonald told us
he would be the night the drafted him.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, I told you Monday. I think this guy is
just a rising star, a future star, and maybe he's
a star already. I think he's got he's got all
that measurables. You know, he's a high waisted, tall guy, long,
but he's very fluid in his change of directions. His
(33:12):
acceleration is elite getting from point A to point B
in an area of you know, eight ten, twelve, fourteen yards.
I mean, he had a play the other night on
a play action pass where he is the he is
the curral defender on the right side of the defense.
That's that's just inside the flat so it's it's between
(33:33):
the numbers and the hash and they're trying to hit
Nico Collins on what's called a skid route out of
like a little short post glance type thing on the
opposite side, and he just he just backpedaled and he
kind of sensed the way the play was developing, and
then he converged on the play leaps with all that
(33:55):
length and has a pass defense in there. I mean
that that'd be something and you expect from Kyle Hamilton,
you know, guy who's been in the league six eight
years whatever it is, or you know ten year vets.
So so I think the instincts every time I watch
him on tape, I feel like he's processing faster and faster.
So yeah, I I they use him as the Nicol
(34:17):
Sam and you know this is this is just a star.
He's gonna be a central part of this defense. I
cannot wait to get Julian Love back. Yeah, and we
can Witherspoon. I mean, with these guys, it's just it's
just to be really fun to watch his defense. That's fun.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
That's a word that comes to mind. All Right, So
I'm gonna go a little bit over to give you
guys this, but don't kill me on the time. So
just a minute each from the two of you. Greg
anything that we didn't bring up that your final thoughts
as we close out this roundtable.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Well, not to ray on the enthusiasm that might be
building for the Seahawks now that people who realize they're
playing again and the Mariners are done, but I don't.
There's something of a paper five and two to me, Yeah,
you can make the argument that could be seven to zero.
A lot of teams around the league fan bases can
argue that if they Donald doesn't drop the ball against
San Francisco and doesn't turn it over at the end
against Tampa Bay, but they're not doing it the right way,
(35:15):
their right way, meaning run the ball effectively, and I
still am very skeptical about their chances to win the
NFC West running the ball they way they currently are.
They can. However, when they get Witherspoon and Julian Love back,
their defense may be good enough to win the division
by itself and the offense still be malfunctioning. That's the
(35:37):
whole crux of this Every NFL season the Seahawks, to me,
it comes down to are they gonna have home playoff games?
Because if they don't, they're not going to win the
super Bowl. That's what history tells us. If they're not
gonna get home playoff gas unless they win a division,
they're not gonna win a division unless they beat the
Rams in the forty nine ers. To me, they can't
do it the way they're playing. We'll see if I'm wrong,
we'll see if the defense alone can have them win
(35:59):
the division. But right now I think they're too flawed
offensively unless their defense trump's all that and wins it
by themselves.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Dude, take us home.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
What do you want to talk about the clothes say?
You know, we're throwing a lot of flowers at the defense.
They deserve it, just but a concern I have just
kind of watching the tape and I said, hey, are
there some numbers that can reflect this concern? And in
fact there are. So you go back to the Houston game.
Out of fourteen drives, the drives where the Texans had
the most yards fifty one to fifty two yards were
(36:31):
the two last drives. The Tampa Bay there's three drives
of seventy yards or more. They were all in the
second half. Arizona going to the fourth quarter Euroupe, what
twenty to six? You give up fourth quarter drives of
seventy three and fifty seven touchdown drives. We saw the
Pratt fall in the fourth quarter of the forty nine ers.
This is a consistent deal. So I look and I say,
(36:53):
all right, where are they? The past defense numbers weren't
as bad as I thought fourth quarter they there's a
little bit of a regression but not too bad. But
the pressure. The Seahawks are a hit in hits. This
is all quarters. They're sixth in hits, eleventh in sack rate,
but number one in hurries. Okay, but here's the one
(37:16):
I'm gonna I'm gonna focus on. The Seahawks are in
pressure rate. That takes all of them. This is a
percentage of plays where they apply pressure. The Sea Hawks
are fourth in quarters one to two and three, they're second.
In the fourth quarter, they're twenty second. So when I
felt like when I was watching that pass us and
I'm like, man, they just don't seem to have the
(37:37):
gas at the end. There are numbers absolutely to support
that observation. And I would say, as we're talking about
Julian Love and the return of Witherspoon, I don't think
Derek Hall is a game changer. He's got four hits,
eight hurries and no sacks. But I think him in
the rotation getting him back. I think they're missing somebody
(38:01):
in the rotation so that that pass rush can be
a little bit more alive. In the fourth quarter. Hill
Mellan is.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Gonna come back in Washington, Mike McDonald says another one.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
But I just feel like they're a man light in
the rotation because I'm seeing I'm not seeing the same
energy in the fourth quarter of these games, and the
numbers as I described, you know, they're falling off more
than Mike McDonald.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
One hut going his boy, I'm off my back if
going all right? Man.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I thought that this hour went really great without Bucky
talking the whole time, that's for sure. So yeah, nice work, gentlemen.
Great to catch up with you here for this hour.
Our Seahawks inside of Greg Bell ur QB one Hugh
Mellen will talk to both of them tomorrow on the
radio program. But coming up next we're gonna talk about
Dan Wilson and it's a segment I like to call
(38:54):
Manage Angerment. Sports Radio ninety three point three kJ R
f M
Hey, good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Happy Thursday, Chuck Poll and Ashley Ryan with you Bucky
out today. But you know something, we have skipped a
couple of thursdays with our twelfth man roundtable. We got
a lot of catching up to do. I got to
find out how the kids are doing in Greg's world,
I got to find out how life is and Hugh
Mill in Manor. So we got a lot of things
to catch up on here and we got to talk
(00:31):
some Seahawks football with our guys here for the next hour.
So Hume Mill and our QB one ore Seahawks inside
of Greg Bell with us here this morning on a
by the way, a crazy day in the National Basketball Association.
And you know, I just had a sales guy come
in and say, do you think maybe that this is
why the NBA put the brakes on expansion? They knew
(00:53):
that they were going to be dealing with this storm.
I'm like, that's not a bad idea, Thanks sales guy.
I'll go back and sell. And then I thought, well,
maybe I should bring this up to Greg and Hugh
because I'll start with you, Greg, in light of what's
happening today in the NBA, do you think other leagues,
most notably the National Football League, are sitting here this
(01:14):
morning like Roger Goodell's got the order out to you know,
mind all p's and q's burn receipts, you know that
sort of thing. Do you think there's a little panic
going on with the other leagues wondering if that finger
is going to be pointed at them anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
No, I think they're copping the receipts of the money
they get from the advertising deals and the partnerships that
they have with betting. And this is the danger that
when you get in bed with the betting community. Everybody
around the NFL, around in the NBA, around Major League Baseball,
around the NHL talks about is bombarded with, inundated with
(01:53):
and benefit in profit from betting. Yet if a player
gets into it, oh holy cow, how did this happen?
They're trying to do two things at once. They're trying
to be having a partnership with the betting community. Fantasy
football is an extension of this. Yet they're trying to
(02:14):
say players, you can't get any of this will all
as the league and owners and the people who make
these contracts to advertise will benefit, But those who play
the game, of course, can't benefit because that would destroy
the integrity of the game. Pete Rosel, back when I
was first starting in this, and you remember Pete Rosel,
(02:38):
he was adamant that he would never put a team
in Las Vegas, and he would never do what has
become the modern day NFL of partnering with betting operations.
Because of this, he knew that he couldn't. It would
be two faced and also practically impossible to marry themselves
with the betting community and all other aspects except the players,
(03:00):
and then tell the players, no, you can't do this.
And then the NBA is finding this impossible. And I'm
the NFL is a pretty powerful organization, and I'm not
I would not be. This is pure supposition for me,
but I have a reason to believe it that this
is going on in the NFL. But the NFL has
enough people to tamp this down and make sure it
(03:20):
doesn't get out. This is everywhere, and then they're trying
to put the genie back in the bottle after it's
well out. It's hypocritical that they take their money from them,
and then they pound the people that the players if
they get involved in it at any time. The NFL's
rules are, by the way, pretty clear. If you're a
team employee, if you get any money from the team.
(03:42):
We're talking John Boyle, Seahawks dot Com, the assistant PR guy,
the guy who mows the lawn at Seahawks headquarters. If
you get any money from the Seahawks, you're not allowed
to bet on professional games in profit from that's period,
point blank. And they've tried to make that a car
blaunch thing. Yet the owners in the NFL benefit from
(04:03):
it monetarily.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Here you played, you were in a clubhouse, you were
operated under these rules. So what are your thoughts about
one way down today in the NBA and how it
might relate to the National Football LEA because gambling very
prevalent obviously in this sport.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Well, I agree most of what Greg said, well articulated.
I would just say from where we might differ, I'll
just say, as a player, my sense, you know, as
a journeyman bouncing around. So I was in a lot
of locker rooms, and there's kind of two hard and
fast rules, one internal one external that are just their
(04:41):
non negotiables. Internally, don't steal, you do not steal the
locker rooms are open, do not steal, and then externally
can't gamble.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Very simple.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I don't see why it's a hard rule to understand.
I don't see why it's a hard rule to fall.
The league's credibility rests on fans believing that every single
play is honest competition, and UH, I think it's it's
pretty axiomatic. And so I think that players, Yeah, I greg,
(05:15):
I think that they're you know, the players ideally some
of the contracts that they're receiving. UH is indirectly, you know,
from a result of the popularity of the of the league,
and the popularity of the league is is uh in
a growing extent when you consider fantasy football. Gambling is
a big part of that. We can understand that. But look,
(05:36):
you're either grown ass man and you can understand these
terms and operate within them UH in manners that are
uh you know, you know, in accordance with the law
and permissibility within the league, or you can't. And if
you can't, it's a hard out. You're gone. And so
I I think that the the the NFL is unequivocal
(05:56):
in how they they declare this proclamation to the players.
And if the players don't want to find it. Guess what,
I hope law enforcement. I hope the NFL. I hope
everybody there's security on the teams that are finding these
guys out no talents, you're gone for You're gone for good.
And if you do it enough in a way that's criminal,
you're going to be in prison. I don't I don't
think it's a hard thing to understand.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like the way you put that,
all right, Hugh Millan, Greg Bell with us. It's our
twelfth Man round table. This was just in reaction to
the big news story of the day. But we have
gathered here to talk to some Seahawks football and we
haven't done it in a couple of weeks. So let's
get to it and you. I'll start with you. Here.
(06:38):
You sit at the bye week. You got a five
and two football team, which puts you near the top
of the entire conference. You had some difficulties a couple
of weeks ago defensively, but got back to playing some
Mike McDonald defense in the last couple of weeks. You
haven't played the toughest schedule in the world, but it
hasn't been a soft one either. And here you sit
(06:58):
off to a pretty good start. So how are you
feeling about the Seahawks five and two heading into the
bye week?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, I think that they're right there in a clump.
If there's a horse race, what's the uh, what's the
half pole whatever? You're almost halfway there, and and there's
only one team that's ahead of you, the Packers at
four to one and one. So that's a half a game.
There's a bunch of teams clumped up at five and two.
You're a playoff team if the playoffs started. Now, I
(07:29):
think you're you know, you've you've operated without a good
portion of your secondary.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
They they've never really had everybody other than the first
four plays before nick Eman Worry was injured. And so
I think the idea of getting Witherspoon back, of getting
your quarterback of your secondary back, Julian Love, I really
like where this football team is. And and I I
(07:57):
look at at football in five phases about twenty percent, Uh,
how you run the ball, how you throw it, how
you defend the run, how you defend the pass, and
and special teams. And let's just set special teams to
the side. I think that the best part of their
team is their their rush defense. I mean they're number
(08:17):
one in rushing yards per game, fewest yards, they're number
two in fewest rushing yards per attempt. H. Then from there,
I think the next best is is how they pass
the football with Sam Donald. I'm not going to go
all through all the stats, but I'm looking at a
lot of stats with Sam Donald, uh in the top five.
(08:39):
Then I think then comes past defense and and and
there's a lot of things to be excited about with that,
as we said, with the secondary coming back, and then
and then the rush offenses. I think of those five phases,
if I'm right on that, I think that's the worst.
The run percentage, the percent that they run the football
(08:59):
is is highest in the league. They're number one at
forty nine percent of all plays. Their rushing yards per
game is only nineteenth, rushing yards per tempt is only thirtieth.
So I think there's some areas to improve and and
they'll be looking to do that. But I think that
the Sea Arks are well positioned.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I'd ask you, Greg, where do you think the team
feels most satisfied and where are they still really concerned
what area of the football team well?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
First, Chuck I was going to start the whole show,
but because you've just disowned football the last couple weeks.
It's one hundred yard field and they play eleven on
each side to put the ball across the goal. On
you and I have been staying in football the time.
We just wanted to crush you and you're brown. Thank you,
thank you well.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Appreciate this, Appreciate the update, the refresh.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's football one on one in the nutshe Chuck. We
talked about it since they hired Clint Kubiak, that they
they were going to run the ball, come hell or
high wak, they were going to run the ball into
brick walls and they were going to be times fan
of going why are they running the ball? And the
statistics a huge just articulated is exactly that they lead
the league or second and lead the league and rushing
(10:14):
attempts and how often they run the ball. They're damn
near fifty to fifty, which nobody in the NFL is
even close to. Yet they're thirtieth in yards per carry.
You're running at the most and you're gaining the least yards,
but when you're running it the most. The math doesn't
even math that they're nineteenth and rushing. It just doesn't
make sense to me because when you watch them play,
they're going nowhere in the run most of the games.
(10:37):
They've only had one one hundred yard rushing game. That
was by Kenneth Walker in Week two at Pittsburgh. They
had one hundred and five yards, seventy nine of them
in the second half, So they really haven't functioned in
the run game except for one half of one game
out of seven, how they're designed to. In that game,
he had thirteen carries for one hundred and five yards,
so they were chunk runs in the second half against
(10:59):
the steel that allow them to pull away for a
fourteen point win. The point is they're winning despite themselves.
They're winning despite how they are designed to and need
to play offensively. And I'm still going to say this
until we see otherwise, and we'll find out. And they
play the Rams for the first time on November sixteenth,
they ain't beating the Rams in the forty nine ers,
(11:21):
they're not getting home playoff games. They're not winning the division.
Then again, anywhere they want to go until they run
the ball, and they have to run the ball against
the forty nine ers and rams to keep those defensive
fronts honest or else it's going to be everyone in
on Sam Darnold and his watch his efficiency go down
from seventy plus percent that it's been so far this year.
So they're encouraged by that. They're encouraged, as you said
(11:43):
that they have not had their entire defense, especially their
starting defensive secondary hole since the fifth play of the season,
the fifth play of the season, when nick Evan Moorey
went down with the high ankle spring when DeMarcus Lawrence
that was his fourth play. It was the team's fifth play,
but it was Nicky even Worey's fourth play. That fifth
play of the season is the last time they were whole.
(12:06):
Devin Witherspoon got hurt that day running into Josh job
on an interception he's had and bruce knee that he's
been going off site to get tests and seeing if
it can get better quickly. It hasn't now the last
three weeks. Julian Love's missed with hamstring. When Nicki mcmurrey
came back, Love and Witherspoon went out, and then Rik
Wollan had a concussion. Ric Wollan might have been traded
(12:28):
by now if he wasn't hurt, you can't trade a
guy who's hurt. That's a league rule, of a players'
union rule. When they get Witherspoon and Love back, which
it looks like it's going to be at Washington the
next game November second, then they'll be whole on defense.
Their defensive front has kept them afloat to get the
pressure it has gotten off and without blitzing the seven
(12:49):
sacks at Jacksonville being the prime example of that. To me,
the MVPs of the team have been the front four guys,
Leonard Williams, DeMarcus Lawrence, Byron Murphy, Jared Read. They're the
MVPs of the first seven games because without them, teams
would have thrown like Baker Mayfield every week on them,
and they have nobody need.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I think we may have lost, Greg, Greg Froz on
us areas.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
All right, all right, man, all right.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Hugh, I don't know if you Yeah, I got a
lot to jump off on there, so just go where
you want.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, yeah, well, a couple of things. Let's get a
little bit granular on the rush offense, because we heard
all summer and we heard when Clint Kubiak was signed
about the outside zone. Uh, and we've I think we've
discussed some of the schematics of that, but let's let's
kind of do a review since we're in the bye week.
So the Seahawks in terms of their outside zone percentage
at twenty five point two percent. That's seventh in terms
(13:45):
of the percent that's fifty one attempts, so they're at
about seven point three outside zones per game. Their average
now they're their overall average is three point seven, which
includes that outside zone, but the outside zone average gets
a little better. It's four point two. That's eighteenth. By
(14:06):
the way, as a percentage, Bezon Robinson is the king.
He's at fifty seven percent of all of his runs
are outside zone. So the Falcons have majored in that.
Just to put that into context. So obviously that if
you take away the outside zone, uh, that three point
seven is gonna go even worse, and they're thirtieth in that.
(14:28):
But let's talk about Canine versus zach Sarbonnes. If you
go all running backs of twenty attempts or more on
the outside zone, Canine at five point five yards per
attempt is fourth, and there are nineteen running backs who
have twenty or more outside zone. Zach Sarbonney averages one
(14:51):
point nine yards on the outside zone. Now it's just
sixteen attempts, and maybe he's had some bad luck, but
the you know, the gap between five point five and
one point nine Zach Sharbonnay is the lowest of all
qualifying running backs who've had the outside zone. So I
think that that something that they might consider, like the
(15:13):
they're a poor running team, but they're average at the
outside zone, but they're good with canine running. So if
we want to just kind of filter that thing, one
could be led to the hey, let's get some more
outside zones going with knine. Now you'd say, well, if
you have a greater frequency, are you going to be
as effective? You're going to be a five point five.
(15:34):
I understand that, but but it's something that we discussed
a lot the outside zone, Greg and and and that's
kind of the assessment of where we are. They're they're
poor otherwise, they're middle of the road, uh in the
outside zone, but they're they're pretty darn good with canine
at it.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
And again it bears mentioning again they are any maintenance
program with Kenneth Walker, they're not playing him as they
wish they could. Good, they're playing him as they have to.
He's had a foot issue that's related to the ankle,
the high ankle sprain, and he put him on injured
reserve at the end of the end of last season
in December, and they're trying to get him through seventeen games,
(16:12):
and he's really held bet on getting through seventeen games
because it is a contract year for him. Every week
is on audition for him to get a job somewhere
else next year for a new contract and may not
be in Seattle. So it drives fans nuts. I get
texts from friends during games and people on Twitter ask
me why are they replacing Walker in the middle of
drives And he'll go Casper after a couple of six
(16:35):
yard runs and then you don't see in the rest
of the drive. It's because they don't think they can
give him a full twenty plus carries seventy percent of
snaps in a game that he won't last if healthwise
his footworm hold up. And that's why you've seen Sharb
not to mention that. They of course, Charbona is the
second the two minute back. Charbona is offen the third
(16:57):
down back, and in NFL games, third down and too
met drills often become a preponderance of your snaps. Then
that's how Kenneth Walker ends up with fewer snaps than
the less productive Jack Sharboning. To me, when I watch
him without the numbers, charbon At seems a little less
decisive and sometimes a lot less decisive cutting into the holes.
(17:19):
Sometimes Walker's too decisive. There were a couple times against
Houston where he just cut before the hole even developed,
before the lineman even got to their assigned gap. But
suffice to say that the run game is broken because
the offensive line is not pushing guys out of the hole.
The zone blocking scheme, you get an assigned spot, you
have to be there at time and place when the
(17:39):
running back marries up with the timing of the play,
and if you don't move guys out of the hole,
they're not going anywhere. And that is the simple explanation
for what's wrong with the run game. They are worth searching,
is what Mike McDonald says, which means they are going
to revot. They are reevaluating it. That's byweek the type
of runs they're calling. The situation since they're calling them.
(18:01):
They need an overhaul, and they also need their outifitsive
linemen to do their jobs, which they haven't done in
pretty much most of the last decade.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Well, I can think of a couple of guys that
are masking the inefficiencies in the run game, and I
want to talk about them in the next segment and
talk about who might be emerging as the next Sea
Hawks star as well. We've got Greg Bell, We've got
Hugh Millon. Turns out football still is around. That's what
Greg is letting me know that it didn't go away
(18:30):
in the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So I guess we'll talk about it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM. Oh, it's Thursday,
and we have reassembled the team for the most part.
BUCkies not here, but we do have our experts every
Thursday for an hour most Thursdays, they join us for
(18:57):
the twelfth Man Roundtable. Our QB one You Millan is
with us. Our Seahawks insider Greg Bell is with us.
It is bye week, but by gum, we're going to
talk some Seahawks football for an entire hour here today.
And so we kind of finished off talking about a
couple of the deficiencies of this team and still not
being able to establish the run this season, injuries in
(19:19):
the secondary, a pass rush that disappeared against the Tampa
Bay Buccaneers. But boy, here you cover up a lot
of warts when you've got the number one rated quarterback
in PFF and you've got the number one wide receiver
by two hundred yards in the National Football League, Sam
Donald and JSN. I think, in an honest moment, John
Schneider has to admit they're even better than I thought
(19:41):
they were going to be. Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And you look at the yards per attempt Sam Donald
number one, yards per completion number one, and then when
you go percentage of completions that are ten or more yards,
Sam Donald's number one, fifty eight percent. I'm gonna mention
number two for obvious reasons. It's Michael Pennix at fifty
(20:06):
two point one percent. The gap between one and two
is greater in the gap between two and seven. That again,
you know, so he's pushing the ball down the field
that I actually had in the stat portal that that
I actually the NFL has a they have a category
called checkdown. His checkdown percentage, now that would be subjective.
(20:30):
That's somebody going through and he is. He's thirtieth so
meaning meaning he he had out of thirty two quarterbacks,
he's checking down almost the least. His off target percentage.
Here's another one. The average in the NFL is ten
point four percent of quarterbacks have off target and even
(20:52):
with Darnold pushing the ball that the greed that we're
talking about, his off target percent is six point three percent.
That's number two in the end. NFL like you just
the longer you pour over the stats, the more you're looking. Said,
this guy's having a hell of the season, and Jysn,
what can you say? I thought there might be a
concern whether he could win on the outside to the
(21:14):
level that he was winning on the inside. I thought
he's an elite inside guy, but maybe just kind of
slightly above average outside. Well, I can kind of table
that concern for a long time because he's just shown
he can do it all. I think the only concern,
Greg is that that if when I envisioned the Seahawks
(21:37):
reaching their ultimate potential and whatever that means, and obviously
we're talking about how that might play out in January
and maybe even hopefully February February. I just I cannot
get my arms around that this is the best ratio
when when you had JSN had fourteen targets the other
night and Cooper Cup had one, the other starting receiver.
(22:00):
I don't think they're realizing their highest potential. So that
would be my one concern in the passing game is
is it too much JSN center?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
And when you ask Darnold about that, he says, these
are my progressions. I asked him why he threw on
fourth and one on a rollout. He had Barner in
the flat in the third I think it was the
third quarter against Houston, had Barner in the flat, and
then he had JSN on an eighteen yard out route.
He threw the eighteen yard out route and converted it
and they got a touchdown in that drive. I think
(22:29):
it was a touchdown on drive. I was watching two
games at once that night. So the point is he's
going to Smith and Jigby even when the play, I mean,
most quarterbacks are going to throw the three yard out
route there. He said on that particular play he thought
the linebacker would tackle Barner immediately and he had less
of a chance of getting a first down than JSN
beating his guy Smith and Jigba was beating every coverage
(22:52):
they've seen Shell, they've seen double coverage, they've seen man,
they play zone, they've shading and rolling coverage to his side, backside,
they've been throwing the JSN. He's going out of his
way to throw to Smith and jig but regardless of formation,
regardless of coverage, regardless of pressure, and so far it's winning.
But the disparity that Hughes talking about. The coaches are
(23:16):
aware of it and they're trying to even that out somewhat.
But the guy who's making the decisions throwing the ball
doesn't care about that. He's just going with what he
sees as progression and his best chance to complete a pass.
It is an interesting down the line. Defenses are going
to scheme that way and to see if they can
(23:37):
tilt the tables completely in coverage against Smith and jig
and if Donald's still gonna throw that way. That is
a cat and mouse game that may rear itself when
they play the Rams twice and the forty nine ers
coming up. But so far, it doesn't matter what coverage,
it doesn't matter what situation Donald's deciding he's throwing to
(23:57):
Smith and jigg With. They especially do it. I don't
have the numb in front of me, just anecdotally. They
especially do it on sudden change. You'll notice when they
get stops on turnover, on downs or interceptions and fumbles,
they take deep strikes with Smith and Jigba almost every time.
They did it four different times against Houston, and they
had a lot of opportunities because Houston went for fourth
(24:18):
downs three times and missed it. They went right to
Jasen down the field on the quick strike after the
sudden change. It's it's kind of like the old Pete
Carroll defense. Around here. We're going to tell you exactly
how we're doing it. We're gonna do it. Try to
stop it, you can't stop us. And that's what they're
doing with jaa center. Now.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, it's interesting because I remember Hugh like the NBA
used to be about like balance the floor, everybody can shoot,
And then all of a sudden, this guy named Michael
Jordan came around and they're like, why we want everybody
to shoot when we just want him to have the
ball and then let's just get four complimentary pieces around
him and if he wants to shoot every time. He
can shoot every time, but we're gonna trust him to
(24:55):
throw it to the open man. You really den never
had that advantage in the National Foot League. I'm with you,
like with the balance, But I just heard Gronk say Saturday, man,
Jamar Chase is getting targeted twenty three times in a game,
and it worked out for the Bengals on Thursday night.
Justin Jefferson should get targeted twenty three times a game
as well. And I'm starting to wonder if Jsen is
(25:17):
not in this category with Jamar Chase and with and
with Justin Jefferson, and maybe Sam should be throwing him
the ball every single time that he's open.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
What do you think about that? Yeah, I think there's
some truth to that. And and look, I've there's a
lot of layers to this discussion. The play that Greg
references that on the fourth down, Yeah, he had Barner
on what's called a slip route where he's going when
they snap the ball, he's behind the guard. So by
the time he gets out to the flat in man
to man coverage, that guy's waiting for him. So I'm
(25:49):
not surprised. I mean, tell me, the greatest tight end
receiving Kellen Winslow and his prime wasn't going to be
open on that play and JSN one on that play.
That's absolutely true, and we're seeing a lot of that.
But I watched the tape and there are are times
where Tory Horton is wide freaking open on a dagger
(26:12):
route and Cooper Cup has been open as well. I
think even from a play calling standpoint, having UH thrown
just throwing, just throwing the ball out in the flat
or a wide receiver screen, to me, like, if I
throw a wide receiver screen, I'm not gonna throw it
to JSN usually because that's an opportunity for those to go.
(26:34):
And I just i'd compare it to the US nuclear strategy,
the strategic doction UH of the triad. Greg you're in
the military, you know you go. You want to have
a third of your your arsenal in in in ground
based ICBMs, a third of your arsenal in in subs,
and a third of your arsenal in in bomber base
which are retaliatory, but at least in the event that
(26:57):
that the Soviets or somebody else knock out one of
those phases, you still have two other robust phases. And
so I don't want to come in in January and
be doing a post game where where we lose nineteen
to thirteen in a playoff game and a team figured
out how to corral JSN and and you hadn't developed
(27:22):
the the cohesion and the ability to get production out
of those other receivers, including the tight ends. So that
would be my concern. Look, look, if they're if they're
not going to roll the coverage to them, they're gonna
give him single coverage. And on that play the Greg
describes he Greg is absolutely right, and Sam Darnold's absolutely right.
Was man to man coverage. Barner's covered in the flat
(27:45):
throw it uh to uh JSN on the out route.
But I think as a comprehensive idea, I'll stand by
I think that they need to change the balance a little.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Great it's to do that, though, right, because I mean,
Arnold is leading the league and everything, and he's this
wildly successful quarterback doing it this way, I could see intrinsically,
why even if coach is telling him to do it,
why when he's actually throwing the ball in games, he won't.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
They like having a hot hand, Like why should I
stop shooting thirty five footers.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I'm hitting. I'm hot. Well, there are times where there
was fairly significant intermediate completions to be had that are
fairly easy that you say, well, well, whoa, whoa. If
you're just doing quarterback one oh one, the matchup, the
coverage where it is, you'd say, take a look at
(28:36):
Horton on that eighteen yard dagger. It's wide ass open.
It's a laying you know. So I'm mostly on it. Look,
if i haven't made myself clear, I'll say it again.
I love Sam Donald as a quarterback, as a guy,
as the leader of this team, as a toughness as
he's pushing the ball down the field. I am not
(28:56):
here to criticize Sam Donald. I'm loving what I'm seeing
as a Seahawks fan. I'm just trying to say, hey,
you're always trying to reach your highest potential, right and
and to just say well, we're good, let's not try
and improve. That's not gonna get you a championship. Usually,
that's not what Super Bowl teams do, is sitting there
(29:17):
say we're good. No, you're always looking to try and
get better. And I think they can be a little
better on offense, score a few more points and be
even better in the passing game with it just a
little bit of a tweak, A little bit of a tweak.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Fourteen to one is start. I'll say that we have
that ratio times cup twice.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Here mail at Greg Mell with his twelfth man round table.
I still want to talk about what looks to be
a breakout star for the Seahawks all and our last
segment together, and I'm sure we got some other things
to discuss. Sports Radio ninety three point three kh A
r F M all right, twelve man roundtable Today, We've
(30:09):
got Humillan with us. We've got Greg Bell with us.
Normally have Greg make a prediction, but we don't have
a game. It is a bye week, and so I'm
going to give him the humill In treatment today. I
am going to let both you and Greg just talk
about whatever they want about the Seahawks with their last thoughts.
But before we do that, I do want to ask
you both about nick em and Warri. I'll start with you, Greg.
(30:31):
Are we looking at somebody that is just about ready
to break out as a star, maybe even eventual superstar
in this league?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Are you surprised. We've talked about this since what may.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
You well, I mean second round pick you have, you
have belief, you like like what you see, but until
they actually do it on the football field, you don't know.
And man, it is really pop. He's really popping. I'll
just say that.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Well, McDonald is using exactly as he said he would
the night he drafted him. He said he was Kyle
Hamilton and Cam Chancellor. I mean, come on, he adn't
even played a game yet. He would be a national
star if he hadn't gotten hurt and missed a month
and a half with the high ankle sprain. He's the
best of many good things he's doing. I talked to
McDonald about this on Monday. The best of many good
(31:20):
things he's doing is tackling. His defense, especially in the secondary,
have had problems tackling this year. Not even worried when
they were at their worst tackling even worry was not
even on the field he was out injured. He tackles
in what McDonald always describes as the alley. That's basically
the slot down the hash marks, and that's where a
lot of bubble screens go. It's where slamt patterns go.
(31:42):
That's where runners tend to go after they catch swing
passes or short quick throws. That alley between the outside
corner and the inside safeties are where a lot of
lost yards for defenses come in the NFL with the
quick game in passing these days, well, when they come
at even Worry with that stuff, he goes and tackles
them and they go right to the ground. Even Worry
(32:03):
is the Ernest Jones of the secondary. When he hits guys,
they go straight down. There's no yards after contact, there's
no breaking tackles. By and large, he's their surest tackler
next to Ernest Jones right now, and at his position
slot nickel, which they're using them, he's the primary nickel
guy right now. I think he's going to be the
nickel guy when Witherspoon comes back. I think Woolven's gonna
(32:24):
be the odd man out when they're just gonna have
Witherspoon and Joe be the outside and keep Emon Worry
is the inside. Because he's too valuable as a tackler.
They're using them as a blitzer, they're using him as
a coverage safety, they're using him as a run stopper.
He is Kyle Hamilton for Seattle right now, and he's
only what three four to four full games into his career.
(32:45):
He's his advertised He is what Mike McDonald told us
he would be the night the drafted him.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, I told you Monday. I think this guy is
just a rising star, a future star, and maybe he's
a star already. I think he's got he's got all
that measurables. You know, he's a high waisted, tall guy, long,
but he's very fluid in his change of directions. His
(33:12):
acceleration is elite getting from point A to point B
in an area of you know, eight ten, twelve, fourteen yards.
I mean, he had a play the other night on
a play action pass where he is the he is
the curral defender on the right side of the defense.
That's that's just inside the flat so it's it's between
(33:33):
the numbers and the hash and they're trying to hit
Nico Collins on what's called a skid route out of
like a little short post glance type thing on the
opposite side, and he just he just backpedaled and he
kind of sensed the way the play was developing, and
then he converged on the play leaps with all that
(33:55):
length and has a pass defense in there. I mean
that that'd be something and you expect from Kyle Hamilton,
you know, guy who's been in the league six eight
years whatever it is, or you know ten year vets.
So so I think the instincts every time I watch
him on tape, I feel like he's processing faster and faster.
So yeah, I I they use him as the Nicol
(34:17):
Sam and you know this is this is just a star.
He's gonna be a central part of this defense. I
cannot wait to get Julian Love back. Yeah, and we
can Witherspoon. I mean, with these guys, it's just it's
just to be really fun to watch his defense. That's fun.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
That's a word that comes to mind. All Right, So
I'm gonna go a little bit over to give you
guys this, but don't kill me on the time. So
just a minute each from the two of you. Greg
anything that we didn't bring up that your final thoughts
as we close out this roundtable.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Well, not to ray on the enthusiasm that might be
building for the Seahawks now that people who realize they're
playing again and the Mariners are done, but I don't.
There's something of a paper five and two to me, Yeah,
you can make the argument that could be seven to zero.
A lot of teams around the league fan bases can
argue that if they Donald doesn't drop the ball against
San Francisco and doesn't turn it over at the end
against Tampa Bay, but they're not doing it the right way,
(35:15):
their right way, meaning run the ball effectively, and I
still am very skeptical about their chances to win the
NFC West running the ball they way they currently are.
They can. However, when they get Witherspoon and Julian Love back,
their defense may be good enough to win the division
by itself and the offense still be malfunctioning. That's the
(35:37):
whole crux of this Every NFL season the Seahawks, to me,
it comes down to are they gonna have home playoff games?
Because if they don't, they're not going to win the
super Bowl. That's what history tells us. If they're not
gonna get home playoff gas unless they win a division,
they're not gonna win a division unless they beat the
Rams in the forty nine ers. To me, they can't
do it the way they're playing. We'll see if I'm wrong,
we'll see if the defense alone can have them win
(35:59):
the division. But right now I think they're too flawed
offensively unless their defense trump's all that and wins it
by themselves.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Dude, take us home.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
What do you want to talk about the clothes say?
You know, we're throwing a lot of flowers at the defense.
They deserve it, just but a concern I have just
kind of watching the tape and I said, hey, are
there some numbers that can reflect this concern? And in
fact there are. So you go back to the Houston game.
Out of fourteen drives, the drives where the Texans had
the most yards fifty one to fifty two yards were
(36:31):
the two last drives. The Tampa Bay there's three drives
of seventy yards or more. They were all in the
second half. Arizona going to the fourth quarter Euroupe, what
twenty to six? You give up fourth quarter drives of
seventy three and fifty seven touchdown drives. We saw the
Pratt fall in the fourth quarter of the forty nine ers.
This is a consistent deal. So I look and I say,
(36:53):
all right, where are they? The past defense numbers weren't
as bad as I thought fourth quarter they there's a
little bit of a regression but not too bad. But
the pressure. The Seahawks are a hit in hits. This
is all quarters. They're sixth in hits, eleventh in sack rate,
but number one in hurries. Okay, but here's the one
(37:16):
I'm gonna I'm gonna focus on. The Seahawks are in
pressure rate. That takes all of them. This is a
percentage of plays where they apply pressure. The Sea Hawks
are fourth in quarters one to two and three, they're second.
In the fourth quarter, they're twenty second. So when I
felt like when I was watching that pass us and
I'm like, man, they just don't seem to have the
(37:37):
gas at the end. There are numbers absolutely to support
that observation. And I would say, as we're talking about
Julian Love and the return of Witherspoon, I don't think
Derek Hall is a game changer. He's got four hits,
eight hurries and no sacks. But I think him in
the rotation getting him back. I think they're missing somebody
(38:01):
in the rotation so that that pass rush can be
a little bit more alive. In the fourth quarter. Hill
Mellan is.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Gonna come back in Washington, Mike McDonald says another one.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
But I just feel like they're a man light in
the rotation because I'm seeing I'm not seeing the same
energy in the fourth quarter of these games, and the
numbers as I described, you know, they're falling off more
than Mike McDonald.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
One hut going his boy, I'm off my back if
going all right? Man.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I thought that this hour went really great without Bucky
talking the whole time, that's for sure. So yeah, nice work, gentlemen.
Great to catch up with you here for this hour.
Our Seahawks inside of Greg Bell ur QB one Hugh
Mellen will talk to both of them tomorrow on the
radio program. But coming up next we're gonna talk about
Dan Wilson and it's a segment I like to call
(38:54):
Manage Angerment. Sports Radio ninety three point three kJ R
f M
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