May 22, 2025 • 40 mins
In the third hour, Dick Fain and Hugh Millen discuss the growth of Jalen Milroe and his potential to be Seattle’s eventual starter, what we could expect out of Sam Darnold in his first year with the Seahawks in 2025, plus if the legacy quarterback is on the team.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Into the five o'clock out. I got a lot of
football on the brain. I think it's time to talk
some football. I will say really quickly though, the capital
of the basketball world Indianapolis, Indiana, Caitlin Clark and the
Indiana Pacers. I mean wow, for a small Midwestern, small
(00:22):
ish Midwestern city to be the capital of the basketball world,
I don't even know how it can be disputed at
this point. If you just take the popularity of their
NBA team and then multiply it by the popularity their
WNBA team, absolutely unbelievable. But Hugh, I want to talk
some Seahawks with you. We haven't talked about Seahawks this week,
(00:42):
and I was thinking about a couple of couple of
things going into this season. First of first and foremost
is kind of the question of whether or not the
next Seahawks legacy quarterback.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Is currently on this roster.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
And that name, that word kind of popped into my
mind and I said, all right, well, in order to
throw this out to Hugh, I need to define what
the word legacy means. So I went into the archives,
the Seahawk archives, and I just wanted to look at
quarterback starts, and there have been four quarterbacks. I think
(01:22):
we all know who they are that have started one
hundred or more games as the Seahawks quarterback. And that's
that's seven ish seasons, Zorn, Craig, Hasselbeck, and Wilson. Then
I want to check is there anybody close? Is there
anybody I could even you know, if you kind of
turned your head slightly, you could consider a legacy quarterback?
And the answer is no. Gino Smith is a distant
(01:46):
fifth with fifty two starts. So Geno Smith has only
half the starts as the number four quarterback on the list.
So there is a clear line of demarcation between the
legacy quarterbacks of the Seattle Seahawks and their fifty years
of existence. Zorn, Craig, Hasselbeck, and Wilson and everybody else,
(02:07):
all the other guys. So we're gonna throw out all
the other guys and we're gonna say, all right, is
does this roster was Sam Donald, Drew Locke, and Jaln
Milroe have on it? The next quarterback that starts one
hundred games for the Seattle Seahawks is that? And who
(02:28):
is that guy? I mean, should we just assume it's
Sam Donald? Because he's only twenty seven years old. What
have you seen enough, Hugh from Sam Donald in his career,
both positive and negative negative to feel I'm not asking
you make a prediction yes or no, but you feel
reasonably confident that either here Jaln Milroe will be that guy,
(02:49):
that next guy on the list.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, I think you have to start just kind of
thinking about it from a statistical standpoint. This is the
fiftieth year of the franchise and you're talking about four guys,
So the default would be, you know, you're you're talking
maybe one aver.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
One a decade about you know, one every twelve is.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Year's right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I would say, well,
let's let's start with Milrow. I think that the the
the Jalen Milroe experiment is very fascinating to me because
he has, if you think of it, a pyramid like
(03:31):
the John Wooden pyramid or the Maslow hierarchy of needs,
where you have as sending traits that are become more
and more important, and then you have the top of
the pyramid. Jalen Milrow to me, has all of the
things below the most important. You know, he's an extremely
hard worker, He's got obviously great physical attributes in terms
(03:57):
of his running, nobility, his arms, rngth. So he's kind
of got all the things. I think his leadership, so
all the things that that are are important but not vital.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And when you watch his tape, the elements that the
two elements that he has that are most in question
are the two elements that are most important to play
in the NFL in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And you've always said that's throwing what to the right
place at the right time, in the right situation.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
The right guy at the right time, yep. Accurately.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Accurately, yes, and so so the first two parts throw
to the right guy at the right time. That's what
we commonly call just judgment or just you know, decision making.
There's a lot of ways to describe that. I've tried
to pair that down to say, what's the essence of quarterback?
And you've got to look at the you got to
look at the defense both pre snap post snap, and
you've got to determine where you're going with the ball
(04:58):
and that will often determine, you know, when you throw it,
how fast you can make that decision. And I would
I would add that for every fifty times that a
quarterback throws at the wrong timing. There's maybe one that's
too early and forty nine that are too late. Okay,
(05:19):
And I don't think I'm exaggerating much. I literally think
it's about that. It might be it might be more
like ninety nine and to one. And you're talking about
processing speed, right, yes, So it's really are you deciding
who to throw to quickly enough and getting the ball
out of your hand? And do you feel comfortable throwing anticipation?
(05:42):
For example, here I'm on a radio show in my hometown.
I look back at how I played at the University
of Washington, and I needed to see the receiver come
out and basically look at me. I had to see
them open like ging me to throw anticipatory would be
(06:02):
asked like ask asking me to put my hands over
a hot fire, you know. So, so my my internal
clock would be like, let's say that Lonzel Hill, uh,
a receiver of my time, Vanny Gil Yeah, okay, let's
uh so Mohill is going to run down a seventeen
yard in route. I would wait for him to come
(06:23):
out of the break and then now all kinds of
new problems, uh come into play because now he's accelerating
in through different zones and it's just harder to play
that way. But I didn't feel comfortable throwing with anticipation.
Then you get to the NFL and and and it's
basically like, if I'm going to keep survive, you have,
(06:46):
you know, being a starter just to survive and get
a paycheck not get cut. After the third preseason game,
I have to change my entire sense of timing of
what feels comfortable throwing. Until I got got to do that,
you just kind of realize that's the only way to survive.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Okay, so we don't have to coaches coaches.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Coaches will say like, like, the ball's got to come
out earlier, So.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
We don't need necessarily a quarterback whisper on the staff,
a Mike Holmgren esque on the staff to transform Jalen Milroe.
He's got to have to do it himself or else
he's going to be out of the way.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well there, if you're coaching him, you well he is
one of the few guys that I think needs work
on his mechanics. I think that the kinetic chain of
his throwing motion is not natural. I think I think
he opens up his shoulder and he denies torque on
(07:49):
his body. His arm becomes separated from from his rotational movement. So,
I mean, there are some detailed parts of it, but
most NFL quarterbacks were not accurate. They don't have delivery
problems with their kinetic chain. They when they're inaccurate, in
my opinion, it's because they they their brain doesn't process
(08:13):
where the moving target is.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
You're throwing to a moving target, So you just kind
of your brains like like like if you throw it
behind a receiver, for example, you go back and look
at a Geno Smith's interception reel. He had more interceptions
on sideline out routes than any other type of route,
and he would typically throw behind and so but when
(08:37):
you look at when his hands break, meaning when when
his left hand detaches from his right, that's that's that's
a point just about exactly when neurologically his brain said
throw the ball green, let go. That's when the light
turned green. Think of like a think of like you know,
drag race. You know when that light turns green that
you can go. When you see those hands separate, and
(08:58):
then you look at where the receiver is at that point,
Gino's gotta He's got to say, well, uh, you know
JSN or let's say Tyler Lockett is gonna by the
time the ball gets the Tyler Lockett is gonna go
out from his break. He's gonna he's gonna make six
yards towards the sideline and I got to put it
way over there. Well, Gino's brain wouldn't calculate that, and
(09:21):
he'd throw it five yards out in front instead of
six yards right, and so the ball is behind and
then you had some interceptions, and again that was the
route that he had the most interceptions on his interception
real so so so the accuracy piece is a part
for Jalen. But but getting back to you, you asked,
from a coaching standpoint, can can it be coached? One
(09:43):
of the things you're gonna say is you have to
throw it or you have to be anticiporatory that you know,
when you look at his tape too often, he needs
to see it. Well, that's kind of how I was
at Washington, right. I needed to see it too. And
so so, how how can I explain what the transferm
If you'd have said to me, Okay, we're gonna go
(10:04):
throw routes on air, go to the combine, whatever, and
you just want to get a completion. My timing would
be like, Okay, let me let him come out of
the break, and then I can anticipate how fast he's
running and then I'll try I'll try and hit him.
Inscribe what I learned. You know, over the course of
(10:24):
my fierce few years in the NFL, is know, what
feels more comfortable to me is to throw it earlier,
because there's a point where the receiver slows down at
his break and now you don't have.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
To I mean, think of this if if okay, you.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Know the the target practice on the passing contest in
the end, they put a big target with a golf cart.
Do you think it's easier to hit the golf cart
if the golf cart's going twenty miles an hour or
five miles an hour? Probably five five, right, yeah? And
so what you realize is that, hey, if I throw
(11:08):
it early, right out of the break, there's a moment
where the receiver has decelerated then caught out of his brake,
and then he's in the processes of accelerating and he
hasn't got to full speedlet Yet if you throw it
a little later, you're gonna now you have to calculate
a faster moving target. If I throw it early, I'm
(11:28):
calculating on a slower moving target. And so what happened
is by the time I was halfway through my career
in the NFL, if you just said, hey, you got
to complete this route on air and you know for
ten thousand dollars, right, okay, what would I would feel
the most accurate would be to throw it earlier.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I see, but you checking in with me.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
When I was a senior at Washington junior senior starting
for the Huskies, the same thing, the same challenge.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I would have thrown it later. And so.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's part of the development for a quarterback. This this
got me thinking. It is kind of a random thought.
Who's a better passer of the football right now? Those
type things that you're saying, both the mechanics as well
as the timing a nineteen year old DeMont Williams or
a twenty two year old Jalen Milroe.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I think that that passing the football is more innate
in Demond Williams.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
He just has a better feel I think of it.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I think it ken Anderson, the former Cincinnati Bengal coach.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I've got this, uh.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I got a whole library of coaching clinic notes that
I you know, I read from time to time, and
one of them was Ken Anderson. You know, he spoke
spoke at a coaching clinic and I read the transcript
and in the very first two paragraphs, Now, this is
the guy who started for the Cincinnati Bank in the
Super Bowl for the longest time. He literally decades, He
(13:04):
had I think decades, certainly ten a decade. He had
the completion percentage record. He was like the only guy
who'd ever been over seventy percent. And then he got
into coaching at different levels, and he had been a
quarterback coach in the NFL. So Ken Anderson, if you're old,
you remember the name. If you don't, you the Super
Bowl against Yeah. So Ken Anderson in this says, look,
(13:29):
I can tell in the first five minutes whether your
quarterback can ever be a quarterback. You can just watch it.
Is it innate in him? Now I'm not saying I
subscribe to Ken Anderson's assessment there, but the point that
he was making is a lot of this, like the kinetics,
(13:52):
like how the ball like do you naturally just throw
the football? And and and it starts with for right
handed quarterback, starts with the right foot, comes up through
your legs, your hips. It's all in a sequence of
one one before the hip, before the soulder, and then
and it extends finally with the tricep extending, the risk
coming down and the fingers coming down. It at all
(14:13):
has to time out and and it and for people
who are natural throwers of the ball, that's that that
that's a very easy It's like it's like Ken Griffy
swinging a baseball bat right, you know, and Chao Smith
as a beautiful he has a great kinetic motion. Right.
So if you ask me, I think from a Ken
Anderson lens, Demon Williams is more of anate and innate
(14:39):
passer of a football than Jalen Milroe.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I think it's harder.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
But Ken Anderson would also say that Jaylen Millroe ain't
gonna make it right because of his theory.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Well he was talking about high school coaches or team
in high school quarterbacks. But yeah, I think he'd be
skeptical and he wouldn't be alone.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Would he have been skeptical?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And our usual were you skeptical of guys like Jalen
Hurts and Lamar Jackson. I'm trying to think of guys
that are There are not a lot of guys that
are in Jalen Milroe's athletic class.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
You got to go to the top of the top.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So was Jalen Millroe And was Lamar Jackson and Jalen
Hurts natural throwers of the football?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Question about Lamar Jackson and and let's just assess the
factory he was. He was the thirty second pick in
the draft, so basically everybody and and Baltimore even traded
up to get him. So I think Baltimore already passed
on him once.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
There was talking about him moving to wide receiver. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, Bill Pollian is arguably the greatest GM in the
history of the NFL. You could say, well, what about
tech uh Tex, not tech Shram, but the guy that
Cowboys it'll come, it'll come to me. But but but
there's three Super Bowl teams that Bill poll was the architect.
(16:02):
They got Buffalo Carolina and Indianapolis and Bill Polly And
that was almost like the end of his career because
he said that Lamar Jackson should move to receiver and
you know, it's almost going to be written on his
tools that he so. So there's a lot of people,
including the I'm gonna call it thirty two teams that
(16:25):
passed on him, if Buffalo or if Baltimore had passed
I might be wrong on that fact, though it doesn't matter.
He was at the end of the first round, and
so and and he had. Out of eighteen quarterbacks that year,
Josh Allen had the highest velocity rated at the on
the gun at the combine, Lamar Jackson had the lowest
(16:45):
eighteenth out of eighteen. So he had a passing motion
that was not natural, and he didn't have a lot
of velocity. He did not run at the combine, which
was odd. So whatever his forty time is is is
mysterious because he's never allowed people. It's just like, hey,
(17:07):
you don't need to know my forty times fast fast, yeah,
right and start. It's a great question, dick uh. In
this conversation, you were right to press me on that.
But if I'm being truthful, I was not. I was
not really bullish on Lamar Jackson and so, and that's
why I I look and say, yeah, it can be
(17:31):
it can be learned.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Some of the mistakes you have, you can learn to
be anticipatory. I know, because I did not that I
was in it.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You know, again, just just to go from being you know,
the difference between not being in the league and being
in the league.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I had to do that period.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
End of story. That was a mandatory adjustment that I
had to make. Now he comes, he has a set
of traits that that I are and and and seldom
few have. And so that that that athletic building block
that he has that is going to allow him more
patience and he's gonna impact the game more through his legs.
(18:10):
How teams rush him, teams are gonna say, I mean
there's times on the Alabama tape where there's only a
three man rush and they got two mans.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
They got two spies on him.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
They're playing man man to mind behind it. But they
gotta keep not one, but two spies. So he gets
an extra amount of time to sit there.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And hold that. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yes, Like two spies are just sitting there going dude,
if you run, we're here, one on the left, one
on the right, Well, you just wasted two guys out
of eleven, So that means you're rushing three you gotta
you gotta play man and man with six, so there's
a free safety and and then everybody else is man
and man and two spies. Like like against the less
(18:50):
athletic quarterback, you'd say, wait, manue, if we got six
guys in coverage with playing man and man, five llas
of receivers plus a post safety, we can rush five.
So that that type of stuff you you impact scheme, yes,
because which allows you to maybe be less anticipatory. Maybe
you can go to your fourth read like, oh, my
first guy isn't open, my second, third, Oh, let me
(19:11):
go over to my fourth. Well, a lesser athletic guy,
everything's closing in.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's going to say that decision quick.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Look if it's either gonna be my first or maybe
my second guy, otherwise the protection isn't going to be there.
So there's all kinds of you know, it's like the
shin bone is connected to the thigh bone and all
of these things. These factors are connected. When you evaluate
a guy like Milroll, that's great evaluation on Milroe. I
want to talk about Sam Donald next.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I mean, the broader question is is the legacy the
next legacy quarterback of the Seahawks on this roster right now,
and I've got some expectations. I got a fairly simple formula,
but I think it passes the sniff test on what
I expect statistically.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
From Sam Donald in his first year. The Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Will see if Hugh buys into it next on ninety
three point three kJ RFM testing.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Live from the R and R Foundation Specialist broad Jazz Studio.
Now back to SAFTI and DIGG powered by Emerald Queen Casino,
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Speaker 1 (20:16):
All Right, Hugh and Jackson'm gonna get really rudimentary on
you here with my projection for Sam Donald's twenty twenty
five seeds. OK, but sometimes just simple, Sometimes simple just
feels right. And so I took a look at Sam
Donald's career and I looked at his seventeen game average
(20:41):
season while he's with the Jets in Carolina. So he
had sixty three touchdowns and fifty six interceptions in fifty
six starts, so barely over a touchdown and one interception
per game.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
That he started on average with the Jets and Carolina.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Now Minnesota's last year, he had thirty five touchdowns twelve
interceptions in seventeen starts.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And so I was like, what if I just split
the difference.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
What if I took his per game average with the
Jets and Carolina and put them over here in this column,
and I took his one season with Minnesota and put
him over here in this column. Now, some may say, well,
you should put more weight on the Carolina Jets side
because it's more seasons, But then I think there's an
(21:37):
equal argument to be had that no, no, no, no, no,
you put more weight on the Minnesota side because a
it's the most recent season and also he's not in
an absolute bleep show situation that he was in in
the with the Jets and Carolina, and the Seahawks are
a much more Minnesota Vikings esque as a franchise than
(22:00):
the Jets in Carolina are, so he should be closer
to the Minnesota side. So if you just say that
each side has equal weight, and I'll let you guys
weigh in on whether you think each side should have
equal weight or not. If you were to split the
difference on the numbers, here's what Sam Darnold would.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Do this year.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
If you just took the average of the two twenty
seven touchdowns fourteen and a half interceptions, and I looked
at that number and I was like, that feels really
right to me. He's not going to be thirty five
and twelve like he was last year. But he's also
not going to be seventeen and seventeen like he was
(22:42):
at Carolina or the Jets. And just to compare what
twenty seven touchdowns and fourteen a half interceptions would look like,
Gino last year had twenty one touchdowns and seventeen interceptions,
So this would be a significantly better season than Gino
Smith had. So Jackson, when I start with you, what
do you what do you think you haven't You haven't
volleyed in much today.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I've been ignoring you today. I feel bad. We need
Jackson to.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
To weigh in this.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I'll have Huey in on as well.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
It's an interesting mathematical model of kind of how you
value these things, right, And I really like that you
put the a little extra weight on the recency because
I think that's super important. He's talked a lot, and
coaches have talked a lot about how much he's changed
since being in San Francisco. And being in San Francisco
around the Ghost coaches, around an entirely different offense that
(23:30):
they run in San Francisco has changed Sam Donald clearly
for the better. At the same time, then he goes
to a Minnesota team that has good receivers whatnot.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So I do like the kind of the leaning that direction.
You can't lean too heavily.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
Now, I would say about your twenty seven and I'll
say twenty seven to fourteen just around. Okay, that feels
a little heavy on both numbers, just because of I
think the Kubiak factor in Seattle, I got.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
You, I mean lunching on the run.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
We know this is going to be a run heavy team,
so I would probably minus three off from the ball. Okay, interesting,
I would say, you know, twenty four and eleven to me.
But again, I think the ratio is right around right.
I think the ratio of a little higher than two
to one. That probably is right around what we're getting.
And then the question is you know yard is But
(24:18):
ultimately the bigger question is is that worth the value
of what we gain Sam Donald? Because that's ultimately what
if we say in year one, Sam Donald, does X,
is that worth it?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And I mean, you look at the value going rate
of quarterbacks.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
If we have a two point two what is that
two point two to one interception touchdown ratio?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
You know what, I'll take that, h What do you think?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Well, I think that the an argument to be made
if I, if I had to make a reasonable blue
sky argument for Sam Donald, I would not factor the
Jets much. And I think there's a reasonable way to
justified not doing so. Sam Darnold got drafted when he
(25:06):
was twenty years old. Now he turned twenty one before
his rookie year, but he gave up two years of
eligibility at USC. He was the third pick in the draft,
and if you look at the offensive the first year
is offensive coordinator he had is a one and done
and my computer's going through updates right now, so I
(25:28):
can't get the names of it, but I know. And
then the next year, his year two, that was the
year early on he had mono nucleosis. He missed I
think five or six games early on, came back and
you know, he said on Sunday Night Football, I'm seeing ghosts,
which was one of the most right misrepresented pieces of analysis.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
By the way, he had Adam Adam Gase and Matt Ruhle,
those were the head coaches.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
But if you look at the offensive coordinator, like the
offensive coordinator that second year, that guy never coached in
pro football again.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
So so he was going Gase wasn't He was the
offensive cornet of the Jets before he went to the Dolphins,
right as the head coach.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
The in Sam Donald's second year, the offensive coordinator is
a guy that is unnamed right now because my computer's
going through an untimed update. And I'm telling you that
that coordinator was that Sam Donald. That was his second year,
and it was uh, Sam Donald's second year, but that
(26:34):
was the first year that that for for that year,
and then that coordinator got fired and he never got
another job in the NFL. And and so you if
you just actually do a little bit of digging as
to what type of people were working with Sam Donald,
it's not impressive.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Now nor was he was a Dowel Loggins was the
guy Loans? Is that Kenny's brother?
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Yeah, Dowel Logan, Yeah, Loggins and and and uh yeah,
and the the the offensive line coach was Messina.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
So they had a hell of a little gig going.
But but uh, this guy.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
I'll tell you what, Okay, Loggins, he looks likes.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Look now, am I tilting my head to try and
see uh a favorable It will sound like some excuses
to some Sure, I'm open to that charge and and
and I'll take it. I'm I'm trying to say okay
without you know, triggering some some uh you know threshold
(27:47):
where I internally just say stop you you're sounding like
an like an apologist. I I think it's fair to
argue that he was a young guy. They were going
through coaches. The Jets weren't good when he got there.
And I'm not saying he wasn't good, and good coach
quarterbacks can overcome bad teams, et cetera. But I am
(28:10):
willing to basically throw out the Jets. And so if
there is an argument to be made for Sam Darnold
that he was young, and I'll make another point. This
is a very important point to me as a quarterback analyst.
If you ask me, in the last fifty years, tell
me quarterbacks that have overhauled their mechanics to any significant degree.
(28:36):
There's only two that I can think of significantly overhauled.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Now.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Josh Allen talks.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
About how he's had some minor twerks, And I don't
think it was as much of a mechanic thing with
Josh Allen as as kind of an understanding the game.
And he went from a fifty to seven percent guy
almost a seventy percent guy. But because he learned how
to play in kind of the manner that I did,
just went much much more like take take whatever development
(29:02):
I have, and then and multiple you know, by exponentially.
But the as far as a legitimate overhaul mechanics Aaron Rodgers.
You go back and look at cal tape. He held
the ball up on his ear like he's holding a phone,
and then he and then as as a Green Bay packer,
(29:22):
he brought it down at his chest, a nice beautiful
uh release, up and out. The second guy would be
Sam Donald. Sam Donald had a big old and he
had a baseball background. You could see it all over
as like a Byron left which style wind up where
the ball came way below is his his you know,
you know, like a center fielder trying to throw, you know,
(29:43):
like uh and and so in my mind it was nasty.
I thought Sam Donald was an ugly passer of the
football at USC. Now I got to know a lot
of people at usc UH. That's another story. But the
human being Sam Donald, I'm just telling Seahawk fans this
you will come to learn. Sam Donald is one of
(30:05):
the best people that have ever put on a Seahawk uniform.
He is that special and I've heard I've got it
from enough people. I've met him personally. He is a
special human being, a freaking Just if you had a
guy to a neighbor down the street where you just said,
in every way you go, you know that freaking Sam,
that neighbor.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
My neighbor.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Sam is just a great dude. Everybody loves him in
my neighborhood, like he's that kind of guy guy. Okay,
you know, the son of a three hundred pound plumber.
That's who he is, legitly, and I'm not like legitimate.
So so Sam Donald, just to close the loop on that,
he and Aaron Rodgers overhauled their mechanics more than any
quarterbacks I've ever seen, and that is not insignificant because
(30:48):
of how the ball comes out quicker and some of
the success was seen. He's eighteen and six in his
last twenty four games. So the argument would be to
ignore the jet stuff, and he's one of these guys
that kind of took a while to develop.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Get around some good people, do.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Some learning, change some mechanics and maybe just maybe I'm
not going to bet on it, but maybe, just maybe
he's kind of found a new plateau on how to play.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Quarterback in the national.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
We'll wrap up this conversation next top of the hour.
Got a little you make the call as well. Dick
with you and Jackson right here on ninety three point
three KJRFM.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Broad casting live from the R and R Foundation Specialist
Broadcast Studio. Now back to Saftie and Dig powered by
Emerald Queen Casino, the Betty and Capital of the Northwest
on sports Radio in ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Some good discussion on the Seahawks quarterback topic.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Did we come to a conclusion boys on whether or
not the next legacy quarterback is on the roster and
who it is?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
Jackson, do you have a vibe on that we say
the legacy we're talking about ten years?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well, we're talking like the way I defined it was.
There's there's four quarterbacks that have one hundred and more starts. Yeah,
Gino's in fifth with fifty two like, so it doesn't
necessarily have to be one hundred starts, but it's got
to be closer to those guys than it is the Gina.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
Right exactly, I don't think so I need to see
a lot more from from Milroe, specifically at the passing
level in the NFL before I think that he's some
you know, future guy Sam Daryl.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I just don't.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
I don't see the longevity being here. That's a long
time for for a guy.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I mean, we're betting seven years.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
Yeah, they're talking about exactly that we're betting on after
one six years Gift. That's a long time, you know,
coming off of one really good year with the Vikings.
So it's just for me, it's hard to bet off
of that one year, and it's hard to bet on Milroe,
who I just don't see the passing skills from So
at this moment, like my answer likely, like maybe, maybe,
(32:52):
maybe it'll be different, Maybe it'll be different in one year.
I was gonna say likely different from your way. I
don't think it's likely it'll be different in the year.
But if Donald comes out and kills him, yeah, right,
one of the chances I can't say likely, But yeah,
maybe different on one year.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
But right now it's a hard no. Here are a
hard no. Okay, I'm leaning, I'm leaning on the no side,
but I'm not a hard no, Hugh.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I would lean on the know if nothing else, just
kind of just almost from a statistics and probability exactly exactly.
You know that here we're in your fiftieth year and
you've only had four guys who've met that threshold.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
You're talking about a six year starter, got two shots? Yes, yeah,
you do.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And and that's why I Jackson, I wouldn't say hard no,
because I think you're you're You've got a compounding probability.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
And I'll give myself the eye for next year to
change my answer.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
But like again, right now we're basing it off of,
you know, a non passing quarterback in college and a
one great year out of Darnold. So there's no there's
no way I could even say yes based on just
that volume.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Okay, are said another way, Dick. Let's say somebody handing
you a bag of you know, something really gets your
attention one hundred grand, okay, And on the on the
condition you have to bet yes or no to your question,
I'm betting no, yeah, and in part just because you
just canna play the numbers game, right, like yes, right.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yes, And in part because I'm not a I'm I'm
optimistic about both quarterbacks, but I'm not sure about either quarterback.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I I think you know, I was the one on
the show that wanted Jalen Miller drafted in the second round.
So obviously I've got a love for Jalen Milroe and
an intrigue for Jalen Milroe. But that doesn't mean I
necessarily think that he is going to put it all together,
because got if he puts it all together.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Then he is. He's Lamar Jackson huge and a huge point.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Like earlier, do we have the quarterback whisper that can
develop Jalen Milroe as a passer. I'm not sure we do.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Well, it didn't sound like we really needed that.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Oh if I gave that impression, that's that's okay, poor communication.
I'm a part all right. I think there's a big
difference in quarterback coaching and a lot of it, you
know what, a lot of it. Some of the best
quarterback coaches and offensive coordinators I've been around have been
guys that Uh really coach the detail of the receivers
(35:16):
and the tight ends, and they demand exacting from everybody
around you, and then they tell you, Okay, look, this
is where those guys are going to be, and this
is when they're going to be there. It's your job
to get the ball out of your hand and deliver
it there. And and and coaches that I've been around
(35:39):
who are less exacting. Now, all of a sudden, you
lose that precision, and the quarterback is the guy who's
taking the brunt of it. That's why I made note
of that, what we call him dows Uh. I watched,
I went and I watched. I just did this like
(35:59):
two months ago because I was doing a presentation on
the thirty third team and I got reintrigued by the
the I'm chasing ghost comment that Sam Dale Sam Dale,
that Sam Darnold had and knowing the lexicon of quarterbacks
and that that was just another way of saying, hey,
(36:23):
one of two things. Either I'm in the pocket I'm
sensing pass rushers who aren't there, or when I'm looking
at coverage, I'm chasing ghosts, meaning I'm so concerned that
there might be a defender out there that it's causing
me to play late.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
So I knew what he was saying. It wasn't it was.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
It was he was using the vernacular of his occupation.
And people who don't know, even guys like Booger McFarlane
who's a defensive lineman, who doesn't know his ass from
the hole in the ground from what he was talking
about in that and and he wants to eviscerate Sam
Donald and he doesn't even understand what Sam Donald was saying, right,
(37:05):
and the context so and and by the way, they
should have never even aired that, you know, because that
was one of those miked up things where they played,
you know, two three minutes after he actually said it.
It wasn't a live deal. They put a little package
on audio package together a couple minutes later and then
they played it. That should have never been played. There's
(37:26):
a whole list of things that are not played, and
that's one of the things that should have been on
the list.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
St York Media though they're gonna they're gonna find that
cut and they're gonna put it. But anyway, it was
on the back page of the New York post Man.
I'm seeing ghosts.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Oh, it was it was terrible, and it's like, it's like,
who's gonna come to this guy's defense? Who actually can
can speak to?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Like I I know what he's saying.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
What we use that terminology chasing ghost? What does it
mean if you're in the pocket and you feel like
if you're doing your job, you're not looking down at
the offensive lineman or the defensive lineman. That is a
cardinal no, no cannot function. You have to Now people
say you have to feel it. Well in a in
a real literal sense, you don't feel that.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
You know what you feel.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
You feel the football in your hands. So you're not
really feeling it, are you? You're you're saying you see
it out of your peripheral vision. Even though your eyes
are primarily focused in one spot, you can secondarily focus.
I'm sure there's optatricians that would describe it as much
better turned than me. Optalmologists and all, but your your
(38:33):
your peripheral visions is feeling it, we call all we
or ex see me seeing that in a in a
secondary sense, as opposed to my eyes are primarily down
the field. The peripheral vision can pick up, Oh, here's
a here's a defensive lineman that just beat the offensive guard.
He's coming right at me.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I need to move you.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
We call that feel, but it's really your vision. Right,
So if you think that there's somebody there who's not there,
you say, oh, I'm chasing ghosts. And similarly, similarly, in
zone coverage, you're watching a crossing route. You know, okay,
you think you read cover three. Okay, there's three deep
corner corners on either side, free safety. And then I
got hook defenders in the middle, two hook defenders like
(39:15):
a short step in second basement in baseball. I got
two curl flat defenders like a third basement and a
first basement, and defend. And then all of a sudden, wait,
my vision, I can't see that curl flat defender. Where
the hell is the curl flat defender? And and maybe
or maybe maybe I thought that one of the defensive
linemens who I thought was gonna rush, maybe he dropped
out right. And then all of a sudden, you're you're
(39:37):
sitting there, You're so concerned about a mini a school
chance that now all of a sudden, you like you
you're paralyzing, you freeze because you're sitting there trying to
account for any possible thing that could have happened. Right, Like,
you're sitting there, you hear you hear hoof marks coming
in from behind you, and you're thinking it's a zebra. No, dude,
(40:00):
just like like you if you hear hoop, friends, assume
it's a horse, right, you know, don't know, right, Like,
so if you thought it was cover three four under,
don't assume it was cover three deep with five under
unless you have good hard evidence to have believed that.
Like you can chase ghosts all the time in terms
of of of chasing things that aren't there. That that
(40:21):
that is the vernacular of quarterbacks. So he says it
on a bench and he gets fried by people who
don't know what the hell they're talking about. And so yeah, anyway,
but that coach, that coach, or one last point that
that that Dow guy. When I watched that, when I
watched that tape, that offense was so ill prepared for
(40:42):
the Patriots in that game. It was an embarrassment how
poorly what coach that offense was
Into the five o'clock out. I got a lot of
football on the brain. I think it's time to talk
some football. I will say really quickly though, the capital
of the basketball world Indianapolis, Indiana, Caitlin Clark and the
Indiana Pacers. I mean wow, for a small Midwestern, small
(00:22):
ish Midwestern city to be the capital of the basketball world,
I don't even know how it can be disputed at
this point. If you just take the popularity of their
NBA team and then multiply it by the popularity their
WNBA team, absolutely unbelievable. But Hugh, I want to talk
some Seahawks with you. We haven't talked about Seahawks this week,
(00:42):
and I was thinking about a couple of couple of
things going into this season. First of first and foremost
is kind of the question of whether or not the
next Seahawks legacy quarterback.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Is currently on this roster.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
And that name, that word kind of popped into my
mind and I said, all right, well, in order to
throw this out to Hugh, I need to define what
the word legacy means. So I went into the archives,
the Seahawk archives, and I just wanted to look at
quarterback starts, and there have been four quarterbacks. I think
(01:22):
we all know who they are that have started one
hundred or more games as the Seahawks quarterback. And that's
that's seven ish seasons, Zorn, Craig, Hasselbeck, and Wilson. Then
I want to check is there anybody close? Is there
anybody I could even you know, if you kind of
turned your head slightly, you could consider a legacy quarterback?
And the answer is no. Gino Smith is a distant
(01:46):
fifth with fifty two starts. So Geno Smith has only
half the starts as the number four quarterback on the list.
So there is a clear line of demarcation between the
legacy quarterbacks of the Seattle Seahawks and their fifty years
of existence. Zorn, Craig, Hasselbeck, and Wilson and everybody else,
(02:07):
all the other guys. So we're gonna throw out all
the other guys and we're gonna say, all right, is
does this roster was Sam Donald, Drew Locke, and Jaln
Milroe have on it? The next quarterback that starts one
hundred games for the Seattle Seahawks is that? And who
(02:28):
is that guy? I mean, should we just assume it's
Sam Donald? Because he's only twenty seven years old. What
have you seen enough, Hugh from Sam Donald in his career,
both positive and negative negative to feel I'm not asking
you make a prediction yes or no, but you feel
reasonably confident that either here Jaln Milroe will be that guy,
(02:49):
that next guy on the list.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, I think you have to start just kind of
thinking about it from a statistical standpoint. This is the
fiftieth year of the franchise and you're talking about four guys,
So the default would be, you know, you're you're talking
maybe one aver.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
One a decade about you know, one every twelve is.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Year's right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I would say, well,
let's let's start with Milrow. I think that the the
the Jalen Milroe experiment is very fascinating to me because
he has, if you think of it, a pyramid like
(03:31):
the John Wooden pyramid or the Maslow hierarchy of needs,
where you have as sending traits that are become more
and more important, and then you have the top of
the pyramid. Jalen Milrow to me, has all of the
things below the most important. You know, he's an extremely
hard worker, He's got obviously great physical attributes in terms
(03:57):
of his running, nobility, his arms, rngth. So he's kind
of got all the things. I think his leadership, so
all the things that that are are important but not vital.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And when you watch his tape, the elements that the
two elements that he has that are most in question
are the two elements that are most important to play
in the NFL in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And you've always said that's throwing what to the right
place at the right time, in the right situation.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
The right guy at the right time, yep. Accurately.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Accurately, yes, and so so the first two parts throw
to the right guy at the right time. That's what
we commonly call just judgment or just you know, decision making.
There's a lot of ways to describe that. I've tried
to pair that down to say, what's the essence of quarterback?
And you've got to look at the you got to
look at the defense both pre snap post snap, and
you've got to determine where you're going with the ball
(04:58):
and that will often determine, you know, when you throw it,
how fast you can make that decision. And I would
I would add that for every fifty times that a
quarterback throws at the wrong timing. There's maybe one that's
too early and forty nine that are too late. Okay,
(05:19):
And I don't think I'm exaggerating much. I literally think
it's about that. It might be it might be more
like ninety nine and to one. And you're talking about
processing speed, right, yes, So it's really are you deciding
who to throw to quickly enough and getting the ball
out of your hand? And do you feel comfortable throwing anticipation?
(05:42):
For example, here I'm on a radio show in my hometown.
I look back at how I played at the University
of Washington, and I needed to see the receiver come
out and basically look at me. I had to see
them open like ging me to throw anticipatory would be
(06:02):
asked like ask asking me to put my hands over
a hot fire, you know. So, so my my internal
clock would be like, let's say that Lonzel Hill, uh,
a receiver of my time, Vanny Gil Yeah, okay, let's
uh so Mohill is going to run down a seventeen
yard in route. I would wait for him to come
(06:23):
out of the break and then now all kinds of
new problems, uh come into play because now he's accelerating
in through different zones and it's just harder to play
that way. But I didn't feel comfortable throwing with anticipation.
Then you get to the NFL and and and it's
basically like, if I'm going to keep survive, you have,
(06:46):
you know, being a starter just to survive and get
a paycheck not get cut. After the third preseason game,
I have to change my entire sense of timing of
what feels comfortable throwing. Until I got got to do that,
you just kind of realize that's the only way to survive.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Okay, so we don't have to coaches coaches.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Coaches will say like, like, the ball's got to come
out earlier, So.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
We don't need necessarily a quarterback whisper on the staff,
a Mike Holmgren esque on the staff to transform Jalen Milroe.
He's got to have to do it himself or else
he's going to be out of the way.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well there, if you're coaching him, you well he is
one of the few guys that I think needs work
on his mechanics. I think that the kinetic chain of
his throwing motion is not natural. I think I think
he opens up his shoulder and he denies torque on
(07:49):
his body. His arm becomes separated from from his rotational movement. So,
I mean, there are some detailed parts of it, but
most NFL quarterbacks were not accurate. They don't have delivery
problems with their kinetic chain. They when they're inaccurate, in
my opinion, it's because they they their brain doesn't process
(08:13):
where the moving target is.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
You're throwing to a moving target, So you just kind
of your brains like like like if you throw it
behind a receiver, for example, you go back and look
at a Geno Smith's interception reel. He had more interceptions
on sideline out routes than any other type of route,
and he would typically throw behind and so but when
(08:37):
you look at when his hands break, meaning when when
his left hand detaches from his right, that's that's that's
a point just about exactly when neurologically his brain said
throw the ball green, let go. That's when the light
turned green. Think of like a think of like you know,
drag race. You know when that light turns green that
you can go. When you see those hands separate, and
(08:58):
then you look at where the receiver is at that point,
Gino's gotta He's got to say, well, uh, you know
JSN or let's say Tyler Lockett is gonna by the
time the ball gets the Tyler Lockett is gonna go
out from his break. He's gonna he's gonna make six
yards towards the sideline and I got to put it
way over there. Well, Gino's brain wouldn't calculate that, and
(09:21):
he'd throw it five yards out in front instead of
six yards right, and so the ball is behind and
then you had some interceptions, and again that was the
route that he had the most interceptions on his interception
real so so so the accuracy piece is a part
for Jalen. But but getting back to you, you asked,
from a coaching standpoint, can can it be coached? One
(09:43):
of the things you're gonna say is you have to
throw it or you have to be anticiporatory that you know,
when you look at his tape too often, he needs
to see it. Well, that's kind of how I was
at Washington, right. I needed to see it too. And
so so, how how can I explain what the transferm
If you'd have said to me, Okay, we're gonna go
(10:04):
throw routes on air, go to the combine, whatever, and
you just want to get a completion. My timing would
be like, Okay, let me let him come out of
the break, and then I can anticipate how fast he's
running and then I'll try I'll try and hit him.
Inscribe what I learned. You know, over the course of
(10:24):
my fierce few years in the NFL, is know, what
feels more comfortable to me is to throw it earlier,
because there's a point where the receiver slows down at
his break and now you don't have.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
To I mean, think of this if if okay, you.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Know the the target practice on the passing contest in
the end, they put a big target with a golf cart.
Do you think it's easier to hit the golf cart
if the golf cart's going twenty miles an hour or
five miles an hour? Probably five five, right, yeah? And
so what you realize is that, hey, if I throw
(11:08):
it early, right out of the break, there's a moment
where the receiver has decelerated then caught out of his brake,
and then he's in the processes of accelerating and he
hasn't got to full speedlet Yet if you throw it
a little later, you're gonna now you have to calculate
a faster moving target. If I throw it early, I'm
(11:28):
calculating on a slower moving target. And so what happened
is by the time I was halfway through my career
in the NFL, if you just said, hey, you got
to complete this route on air and you know for
ten thousand dollars, right, okay, what would I would feel
the most accurate would be to throw it earlier.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I see, but you checking in with me.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
When I was a senior at Washington junior senior starting
for the Huskies, the same thing, the same challenge.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I would have thrown it later. And so.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's part of the development for a quarterback. This this
got me thinking. It is kind of a random thought.
Who's a better passer of the football right now? Those
type things that you're saying, both the mechanics as well
as the timing a nineteen year old DeMont Williams or
a twenty two year old Jalen Milroe.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I think that that passing the football is more innate
in Demond Williams.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
He just has a better feel I think of it.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I think it ken Anderson, the former Cincinnati Bengal coach.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I've got this, uh.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I got a whole library of coaching clinic notes that
I you know, I read from time to time, and
one of them was Ken Anderson. You know, he spoke
spoke at a coaching clinic and I read the transcript
and in the very first two paragraphs, Now, this is
the guy who started for the Cincinnati Bank in the
Super Bowl for the longest time. He literally decades, He
(13:04):
had I think decades, certainly ten a decade. He had
the completion percentage record. He was like the only guy
who'd ever been over seventy percent. And then he got
into coaching at different levels, and he had been a
quarterback coach in the NFL. So Ken Anderson, if you're old,
you remember the name. If you don't, you the Super
Bowl against Yeah. So Ken Anderson in this says, look,
(13:29):
I can tell in the first five minutes whether your
quarterback can ever be a quarterback. You can just watch it.
Is it innate in him? Now I'm not saying I
subscribe to Ken Anderson's assessment there, but the point that
he was making is a lot of this, like the kinetics,
(13:52):
like how the ball like do you naturally just throw
the football? And and and it starts with for right
handed quarterback, starts with the right foot, comes up through
your legs, your hips. It's all in a sequence of
one one before the hip, before the soulder, and then
and it extends finally with the tricep extending, the risk
coming down and the fingers coming down. It at all
(14:13):
has to time out and and it and for people
who are natural throwers of the ball, that's that that
that's a very easy It's like it's like Ken Griffy
swinging a baseball bat right, you know, and Chao Smith
as a beautiful he has a great kinetic motion. Right.
So if you ask me, I think from a Ken
Anderson lens, Demon Williams is more of anate and innate
(14:39):
passer of a football than Jalen Milroe.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I think it's harder.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
But Ken Anderson would also say that Jaylen Millroe ain't
gonna make it right because of his theory.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Well he was talking about high school coaches or team
in high school quarterbacks. But yeah, I think he'd be
skeptical and he wouldn't be alone.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Would he have been skeptical?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And our usual were you skeptical of guys like Jalen
Hurts and Lamar Jackson. I'm trying to think of guys
that are There are not a lot of guys that
are in Jalen Milroe's athletic class.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
You got to go to the top of the top.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So was Jalen Millroe And was Lamar Jackson and Jalen
Hurts natural throwers of the football?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Question about Lamar Jackson and and let's just assess the
factory he was. He was the thirty second pick in
the draft, so basically everybody and and Baltimore even traded
up to get him. So I think Baltimore already passed
on him once.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
There was talking about him moving to wide receiver. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, Bill Pollian is arguably the greatest GM in the
history of the NFL. You could say, well, what about
tech uh Tex, not tech Shram, but the guy that
Cowboys it'll come, it'll come to me. But but but
there's three Super Bowl teams that Bill poll was the architect.
(16:02):
They got Buffalo Carolina and Indianapolis and Bill Polly And
that was almost like the end of his career because
he said that Lamar Jackson should move to receiver and
you know, it's almost going to be written on his
tools that he so. So there's a lot of people,
including the I'm gonna call it thirty two teams that
(16:25):
passed on him, if Buffalo or if Baltimore had passed
I might be wrong on that fact, though it doesn't matter.
He was at the end of the first round, and
so and and he had. Out of eighteen quarterbacks that year,
Josh Allen had the highest velocity rated at the on
the gun at the combine, Lamar Jackson had the lowest
(16:45):
eighteenth out of eighteen. So he had a passing motion
that was not natural, and he didn't have a lot
of velocity. He did not run at the combine, which
was odd. So whatever his forty time is is is
mysterious because he's never allowed people. It's just like, hey,
(17:07):
you don't need to know my forty times fast fast, yeah,
right and start. It's a great question, dick uh. In
this conversation, you were right to press me on that.
But if I'm being truthful, I was not. I was
not really bullish on Lamar Jackson and so, and that's
why I I look and say, yeah, it can be
(17:31):
it can be learned.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Some of the mistakes you have, you can learn to
be anticipatory. I know, because I did not that I
was in it.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You know, again, just just to go from being you know,
the difference between not being in the league and being
in the league.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I had to do that period.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
End of story. That was a mandatory adjustment that I
had to make. Now he comes, he has a set
of traits that that I are and and and seldom
few have. And so that that that athletic building block
that he has that is going to allow him more
patience and he's gonna impact the game more through his legs.
(18:10):
How teams rush him, teams are gonna say, I mean
there's times on the Alabama tape where there's only a
three man rush and they got two mans.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
They got two spies on him.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
They're playing man man to mind behind it. But they
gotta keep not one, but two spies. So he gets
an extra amount of time to sit there.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And hold that. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yes, Like two spies are just sitting there going dude,
if you run, we're here, one on the left, one
on the right, Well, you just wasted two guys out
of eleven, So that means you're rushing three you gotta
you gotta play man and man with six, so there's
a free safety and and then everybody else is man
and man and two spies. Like like against the less
(18:50):
athletic quarterback, you'd say, wait, manue, if we got six
guys in coverage with playing man and man, five llas
of receivers plus a post safety, we can rush five.
So that that type of stuff you you impact scheme, yes,
because which allows you to maybe be less anticipatory. Maybe
you can go to your fourth read like, oh, my
first guy isn't open, my second, third, Oh, let me
(19:11):
go over to my fourth. Well, a lesser athletic guy,
everything's closing in.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's going to say that decision quick.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Look if it's either gonna be my first or maybe
my second guy, otherwise the protection isn't going to be there.
So there's all kinds of you know, it's like the
shin bone is connected to the thigh bone and all
of these things. These factors are connected. When you evaluate
a guy like Milroll, that's great evaluation on Milroe. I
want to talk about Sam Donald next.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I mean, the broader question is is the legacy the
next legacy quarterback of the Seahawks on this roster right now,
and I've got some expectations. I got a fairly simple formula,
but I think it passes the sniff test on what
I expect statistically.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
From Sam Donald in his first year. The Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Will see if Hugh buys into it next on ninety
three point three kJ RFM testing.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Live from the R and R Foundation Specialist broad Jazz Studio.
Now back to SAFTI and DIGG powered by Emerald Queen Casino,
the Betty and Capital of the Northwest on Sports Radio
and ninety three point three KJR FM.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
All Right, Hugh and Jackson'm gonna get really rudimentary on
you here with my projection for Sam Donald's twenty twenty
five seeds. OK, but sometimes just simple, Sometimes simple just
feels right. And so I took a look at Sam
Donald's career and I looked at his seventeen game average
(20:41):
season while he's with the Jets in Carolina. So he
had sixty three touchdowns and fifty six interceptions in fifty
six starts, so barely over a touchdown and one interception
per game.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
That he started on average with the Jets and Carolina.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Now Minnesota's last year, he had thirty five touchdowns twelve
interceptions in seventeen starts.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And so I was like, what if I just split
the difference.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
What if I took his per game average with the
Jets and Carolina and put them over here in this column,
and I took his one season with Minnesota and put
him over here in this column. Now, some may say, well,
you should put more weight on the Carolina Jets side
because it's more seasons, But then I think there's an
(21:37):
equal argument to be had that no, no, no, no, no,
you put more weight on the Minnesota side because a
it's the most recent season and also he's not in
an absolute bleep show situation that he was in in
the with the Jets and Carolina, and the Seahawks are
a much more Minnesota Vikings esque as a franchise than
(22:00):
the Jets in Carolina are, so he should be closer
to the Minnesota side. So if you just say that
each side has equal weight, and I'll let you guys
weigh in on whether you think each side should have
equal weight or not. If you were to split the
difference on the numbers, here's what Sam Darnold would.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Do this year.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
If you just took the average of the two twenty
seven touchdowns fourteen and a half interceptions, and I looked
at that number and I was like, that feels really
right to me. He's not going to be thirty five
and twelve like he was last year. But he's also
not going to be seventeen and seventeen like he was
(22:42):
at Carolina or the Jets. And just to compare what
twenty seven touchdowns and fourteen a half interceptions would look like,
Gino last year had twenty one touchdowns and seventeen interceptions,
So this would be a significantly better season than Gino
Smith had. So Jackson, when I start with you, what
do you what do you think you haven't You haven't
volleyed in much today.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I've been ignoring you today. I feel bad. We need
Jackson to.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
To weigh in this.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I'll have Huey in on as well.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
It's an interesting mathematical model of kind of how you
value these things, right, And I really like that you
put the a little extra weight on the recency because
I think that's super important. He's talked a lot, and
coaches have talked a lot about how much he's changed
since being in San Francisco. And being in San Francisco
around the Ghost coaches, around an entirely different offense that
(23:30):
they run in San Francisco has changed Sam Donald clearly
for the better. At the same time, then he goes
to a Minnesota team that has good receivers whatnot.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So I do like the kind of the leaning that direction.
You can't lean too heavily.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
Now, I would say about your twenty seven and I'll
say twenty seven to fourteen just around. Okay, that feels
a little heavy on both numbers, just because of I
think the Kubiak factor in Seattle, I got.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
You, I mean lunching on the run.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
We know this is going to be a run heavy team,
so I would probably minus three off from the ball. Okay, interesting,
I would say, you know, twenty four and eleven to me.
But again, I think the ratio is right around right.
I think the ratio of a little higher than two
to one. That probably is right around what we're getting.
And then the question is you know yard is But
(24:18):
ultimately the bigger question is is that worth the value
of what we gain Sam Donald? Because that's ultimately what
if we say in year one, Sam Donald, does X,
is that worth it?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And I mean, you look at the value going rate
of quarterbacks.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
If we have a two point two what is that
two point two to one interception touchdown ratio?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
You know what, I'll take that, h What do you think?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Well, I think that the an argument to be made
if I, if I had to make a reasonable blue
sky argument for Sam Donald, I would not factor the
Jets much. And I think there's a reasonable way to
justified not doing so. Sam Darnold got drafted when he
(25:06):
was twenty years old. Now he turned twenty one before
his rookie year, but he gave up two years of
eligibility at USC. He was the third pick in the draft,
and if you look at the offensive the first year
is offensive coordinator he had is a one and done
and my computer's going through updates right now, so I
(25:28):
can't get the names of it, but I know. And
then the next year, his year two, that was the
year early on he had mono nucleosis. He missed I
think five or six games early on, came back and
you know, he said on Sunday Night Football, I'm seeing ghosts,
which was one of the most right misrepresented pieces of analysis.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
By the way, he had Adam Adam Gase and Matt Ruhle,
those were the head coaches.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
But if you look at the offensive coordinator, like the
offensive coordinator that second year, that guy never coached in
pro football again.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
So so he was going Gase wasn't He was the
offensive cornet of the Jets before he went to the Dolphins,
right as the head coach.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
The in Sam Donald's second year, the offensive coordinator is
a guy that is unnamed right now because my computer's
going through an untimed update. And I'm telling you that
that coordinator was that Sam Donald. That was his second year,
and it was uh, Sam Donald's second year, but that
(26:34):
was the first year that that for for that year,
and then that coordinator got fired and he never got
another job in the NFL. And and so you if
you just actually do a little bit of digging as
to what type of people were working with Sam Donald,
it's not impressive.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Now nor was he was a Dowel Loggins was the
guy Loans? Is that Kenny's brother?
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Yeah, Dowel Logan, Yeah, Loggins and and and uh yeah,
and the the the offensive line coach was Messina.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
So they had a hell of a little gig going.
But but uh, this guy.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
I'll tell you what, Okay, Loggins, he looks likes.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Look now, am I tilting my head to try and
see uh a favorable It will sound like some excuses
to some Sure, I'm open to that charge and and
and I'll take it. I'm I'm trying to say okay
without you know, triggering some some uh you know threshold
(27:47):
where I internally just say stop you you're sounding like
an like an apologist. I I think it's fair to
argue that he was a young guy. They were going
through coaches. The Jets weren't good when he got there.
And I'm not saying he wasn't good, and good coach
quarterbacks can overcome bad teams, et cetera. But I am
(28:10):
willing to basically throw out the Jets. And so if
there is an argument to be made for Sam Darnold
that he was young, and I'll make another point. This
is a very important point to me as a quarterback analyst.
If you ask me, in the last fifty years, tell
me quarterbacks that have overhauled their mechanics to any significant degree.
(28:36):
There's only two that I can think of significantly overhauled.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Now.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Josh Allen talks.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
About how he's had some minor twerks, And I don't
think it was as much of a mechanic thing with
Josh Allen as as kind of an understanding the game.
And he went from a fifty to seven percent guy
almost a seventy percent guy. But because he learned how
to play in kind of the manner that I did,
just went much much more like take take whatever development
(29:02):
I have, and then and multiple you know, by exponentially.
But the as far as a legitimate overhaul mechanics Aaron Rodgers.
You go back and look at cal tape. He held
the ball up on his ear like he's holding a phone,
and then he and then as as a Green Bay packer,
(29:22):
he brought it down at his chest, a nice beautiful
uh release, up and out. The second guy would be
Sam Donald. Sam Donald had a big old and he
had a baseball background. You could see it all over
as like a Byron left which style wind up where
the ball came way below is his his you know,
you know, like a center fielder trying to throw, you know,
(29:43):
like uh and and so in my mind it was nasty.
I thought Sam Donald was an ugly passer of the
football at USC. Now I got to know a lot
of people at usc UH. That's another story. But the
human being Sam Donald, I'm just telling Seahawk fans this
you will come to learn. Sam Donald is one of
(30:05):
the best people that have ever put on a Seahawk uniform.
He is that special and I've heard I've got it
from enough people. I've met him personally. He is a
special human being, a freaking Just if you had a
guy to a neighbor down the street where you just said,
in every way you go, you know that freaking Sam,
that neighbor.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
My neighbor.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Sam is just a great dude. Everybody loves him in
my neighborhood, like he's that kind of guy guy. Okay,
you know, the son of a three hundred pound plumber.
That's who he is, legitly, and I'm not like legitimate.
So so Sam Donald, just to close the loop on that,
he and Aaron Rodgers overhauled their mechanics more than any
quarterbacks I've ever seen, and that is not insignificant because
(30:48):
of how the ball comes out quicker and some of
the success was seen. He's eighteen and six in his
last twenty four games. So the argument would be to
ignore the jet stuff, and he's one of these guys
that kind of took a while to develop.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Get around some good people, do.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Some learning, change some mechanics and maybe just maybe I'm
not going to bet on it, but maybe, just maybe
he's kind of found a new plateau on how to play.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Quarterback in the national.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
We'll wrap up this conversation next top of the hour.
Got a little you make the call as well. Dick
with you and Jackson right here on ninety three point
three KJRFM.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Broad casting live from the R and R Foundation Specialist
Broadcast Studio. Now back to Saftie and Dig powered by
Emerald Queen Casino, the Betty and Capital of the Northwest
on sports Radio in ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Some good discussion on the Seahawks quarterback topic.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Did we come to a conclusion boys on whether or
not the next legacy quarterback is on the roster and
who it is?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
Jackson, do you have a vibe on that we say
the legacy we're talking about ten years?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well, we're talking like the way I defined it was.
There's there's four quarterbacks that have one hundred and more starts. Yeah,
Gino's in fifth with fifty two like, so it doesn't
necessarily have to be one hundred starts, but it's got
to be closer to those guys than it is the Gina.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
Right exactly, I don't think so I need to see
a lot more from from Milroe, specifically at the passing
level in the NFL before I think that he's some
you know, future guy Sam Daryl.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I just don't.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
I don't see the longevity being here. That's a long
time for for a guy.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I mean, we're betting seven years.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
Yeah, they're talking about exactly that we're betting on after
one six years Gift. That's a long time, you know,
coming off of one really good year with the Vikings.
So it's just for me, it's hard to bet off
of that one year, and it's hard to bet on Milroe,
who I just don't see the passing skills from So
at this moment, like my answer likely, like maybe, maybe,
(32:52):
maybe it'll be different, Maybe it'll be different in one year.
I was gonna say likely different from your way. I
don't think it's likely it'll be different in the year.
But if Donald comes out and kills him, yeah, right,
one of the chances I can't say likely, But yeah,
maybe different on one year.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
But right now it's a hard no. Here are a
hard no. Okay, I'm leaning, I'm leaning on the no side,
but I'm not a hard no, Hugh.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I would lean on the know if nothing else, just
kind of just almost from a statistics and probability exactly exactly.
You know that here we're in your fiftieth year and
you've only had four guys who've met that threshold.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
You're talking about a six year starter, got two shots? Yes, yeah,
you do.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And and that's why I Jackson, I wouldn't say hard no,
because I think you're you're You've got a compounding probability.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
And I'll give myself the eye for next year to
change my answer.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
But like again, right now we're basing it off of,
you know, a non passing quarterback in college and a
one great year out of Darnold. So there's no there's
no way I could even say yes based on just
that volume.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Okay, are said another way, Dick. Let's say somebody handing
you a bag of you know, something really gets your
attention one hundred grand, okay, And on the on the
condition you have to bet yes or no to your question,
I'm betting no, yeah, and in part just because you
just canna play the numbers game, right, like yes, right.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yes, And in part because I'm not a I'm I'm
optimistic about both quarterbacks, but I'm not sure about either quarterback.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I I think you know, I was the one on
the show that wanted Jalen Miller drafted in the second round.
So obviously I've got a love for Jalen Milroe and
an intrigue for Jalen Milroe. But that doesn't mean I
necessarily think that he is going to put it all together,
because got if he puts it all together.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Then he is. He's Lamar Jackson huge and a huge point.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Like earlier, do we have the quarterback whisper that can
develop Jalen Milroe as a passer. I'm not sure we do.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Well, it didn't sound like we really needed that.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Oh if I gave that impression, that's that's okay, poor communication.
I'm a part all right. I think there's a big
difference in quarterback coaching and a lot of it, you
know what, a lot of it. Some of the best
quarterback coaches and offensive coordinators I've been around have been
guys that Uh really coach the detail of the receivers
(35:16):
and the tight ends, and they demand exacting from everybody
around you, and then they tell you, Okay, look, this
is where those guys are going to be, and this
is when they're going to be there. It's your job
to get the ball out of your hand and deliver
it there. And and and coaches that I've been around
(35:39):
who are less exacting. Now, all of a sudden, you
lose that precision, and the quarterback is the guy who's
taking the brunt of it. That's why I made note
of that, what we call him dows Uh. I watched,
I went and I watched. I just did this like
(35:59):
two months ago because I was doing a presentation on
the thirty third team and I got reintrigued by the
the I'm chasing ghost comment that Sam Dale Sam Dale,
that Sam Darnold had and knowing the lexicon of quarterbacks
and that that was just another way of saying, hey,
(36:23):
one of two things. Either I'm in the pocket I'm
sensing pass rushers who aren't there, or when I'm looking
at coverage, I'm chasing ghosts, meaning I'm so concerned that
there might be a defender out there that it's causing
me to play late.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
So I knew what he was saying. It wasn't it was.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
It was he was using the vernacular of his occupation.
And people who don't know, even guys like Booger McFarlane
who's a defensive lineman, who doesn't know his ass from
the hole in the ground from what he was talking
about in that and and he wants to eviscerate Sam
Donald and he doesn't even understand what Sam Donald was saying, right,
(37:05):
and the context so and and by the way, they
should have never even aired that, you know, because that
was one of those miked up things where they played,
you know, two three minutes after he actually said it.
It wasn't a live deal. They put a little package
on audio package together a couple minutes later and then
they played it. That should have never been played. There's
(37:26):
a whole list of things that are not played, and
that's one of the things that should have been on
the list.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
St York Media though they're gonna they're gonna find that
cut and they're gonna put it. But anyway, it was
on the back page of the New York post Man.
I'm seeing ghosts.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Oh, it was it was terrible, and it's like, it's like,
who's gonna come to this guy's defense? Who actually can
can speak to?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Like I I know what he's saying.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
What we use that terminology chasing ghost? What does it
mean if you're in the pocket and you feel like
if you're doing your job, you're not looking down at
the offensive lineman or the defensive lineman. That is a
cardinal no, no cannot function. You have to Now people
say you have to feel it. Well in a in
a real literal sense, you don't feel that.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
You know what you feel.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
You feel the football in your hands. So you're not
really feeling it, are you? You're you're saying you see
it out of your peripheral vision. Even though your eyes
are primarily focused in one spot, you can secondarily focus.
I'm sure there's optatricians that would describe it as much
better turned than me. Optalmologists and all, but your your
(38:33):
your peripheral visions is feeling it, we call all we
or ex see me seeing that in a in a
secondary sense, as opposed to my eyes are primarily down
the field. The peripheral vision can pick up, Oh, here's
a here's a defensive lineman that just beat the offensive guard.
He's coming right at me.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I need to move you.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
We call that feel, but it's really your vision. Right,
So if you think that there's somebody there who's not there,
you say, oh, I'm chasing ghosts. And similarly, similarly, in
zone coverage, you're watching a crossing route. You know, okay,
you think you read cover three. Okay, there's three deep
corner corners on either side, free safety. And then I
got hook defenders in the middle, two hook defenders like
(39:15):
a short step in second basement in baseball. I got
two curl flat defenders like a third basement and a
first basement, and defend. And then all of a sudden, wait,
my vision, I can't see that curl flat defender. Where
the hell is the curl flat defender? And and maybe
or maybe maybe I thought that one of the defensive
linemens who I thought was gonna rush, maybe he dropped
out right. And then all of a sudden, you're you're
(39:37):
sitting there, You're so concerned about a mini a school
chance that now all of a sudden, you like you
you're paralyzing, you freeze because you're sitting there trying to
account for any possible thing that could have happened. Right, Like,
you're sitting there, you hear you hear hoof marks coming
in from behind you, and you're thinking it's a zebra. No, dude,
(40:00):
just like like you if you hear hoop, friends, assume
it's a horse, right, you know, don't know, right, Like,
so if you thought it was cover three four under,
don't assume it was cover three deep with five under
unless you have good hard evidence to have believed that.
Like you can chase ghosts all the time in terms
of of of chasing things that aren't there. That that
(40:21):
that is the vernacular of quarterbacks. So he says it
on a bench and he gets fried by people who
don't know what the hell they're talking about. And so yeah, anyway,
but that coach, that coach, or one last point that
that that Dow guy. When I watched that, when I
watched that tape, that offense was so ill prepared for
(40:42):
the Patriots in that game. It was an embarrassment how
poorly what coach that offense was
Dave 'Softy' Mahler and Dick Fain News
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