December 30, 2025 • 23 mins
Jon Wilner of The San Jose Mercury News and Wilner Hotline joins Dick Fain and Hugh Millen to talk about the insanity with lawless college football right now, Michigan’s newly filled job, the rivalry series between USC and Notre Dame ending, and playoff changes.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Duke of Duke Seafood letting you know that
this hour of Softian dick on your home for the
Huskies and Kraken is probably brought to you by Duke Seafood.
Why not make it a Duke's night tonight. Reserve your
table today at Dukeseafood dot com. On Sports Radio ninety
three point three KJR.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
FM, It's time for a weekly PAC twelve conversation with
Sennose a Mercury News reporter John Wilner, brought to you
by Simply Seattle. Our friends at simply Seattle dot com
have the most amazing collection of all things Seattle Seahawks
gear UW hats the largest selection of Sonics gear.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Learn more at simply Seattle dot com.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Hi, John, how's the holidays treating the Wilner Clan?
Speaker 5 (00:46):
Oh, Welcome, Happy Holidays, Happy.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
New Year, Happy New Year's. We'll move a little bit
towards your window. You're you're breaking up already on us, John,
So we're kidding.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Network, Get on, Moss, I'm right now.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Oh, I gotcha.
Speaker 6 (01:01):
The engine is off and hopefully the reception is going
to be okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
All right, Well, That's that sounds good, right there. John.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Let's let's start with the the madness that has been
ann arbor for the last three or three weeks or so,
and it ends with Kyle Whittingham going to a Michigan
I thought you your quote on Twitter in response was
very funny, Hugh. His quote was quote, this sport is
bleep face drunk.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
And I'm here for all of it. That sounds response,
So go ahead.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm here to tell us why you're here for all
of it.
Speaker 6 (01:34):
It was unlike any other sport in the lawlessness, the
lack of leadership, the insanity that happens, and it's it's
great content, and it seems to be getting even more
insane by the month.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Really. I mean, you think.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
About Michigan and everything they did wrong and yet they
still end up with a Hall of Fame coach, and
you think about State and it took them almost two
months and they got turned down left and right, and
they end up with Matt Campbell, who's one of the
best coaches in the country.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Big ten did very well.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
For itself during this the coaching carousel cycle here and Michigan,
it's like, you know, they stumble and bumble and then
all of a sudden.
Speaker 5 (02:18):
They've got Kyle Whitningham. It's incredible.
Speaker 7 (02:21):
Well, because you're on in Seattle, a lot of folks
had had a lot of speculation about whether Jedfish attempted
to get the job. There's reports of that. What do
you believe happened in that regard? Did Jedfish try to
be a candidate for that job? And if so, what
(02:42):
was Michigan's response? Tell us about all that?
Speaker 6 (02:44):
I know exactly what Michigan did not see with Fish.
I mean, certainly he was a second tier candidate conversations.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
I don't know how.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
I can't confirm that he spoke directly to the Wolverine
administration in their search firm, or if his agency did,
But certainly there was interest on his part. Why would
there not be. It's Michigan, but for whatever reason, they
were not real high on him. Now, it would have
(03:18):
happened if Kyle Whittingham had turned them down, and maybe
Jeff Brown from Louisville had turned them down. I think
that eventually they probably would have gotten to the point
where they gave Fish serious consideration. But there were several
layers of candidates above him.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Why do you think Whittingham would have been or why
do you or do you not think Whittingham would have
been a candidate? If you would have retired after last season,
could you have seen them coming to Kyle Whittingham after
a year of I don't know, being in the media or.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
What have you.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
Yeah, it doesn't seem to be his The vibe would
have been as good to get winning him now he's
fresh off a ten win season, if he had remember
in twenty twenty four, they lost Cam Rising to that
hand injury. They finished second to last in the Big Twelve.
(04:09):
It was like Whittingham's worst year in a decade. And
if he had retired off of that and then he's
out of coaching for a year, whether he's in the
media or just kind of hovering on the side of
the industry, I just don't know that it would have
been an easy enough sell to Michigan fans, Whereas right
now he's an easy sell, right ten win coach going
(04:31):
to the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
He's been stepped down two.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
Weeks earlier and clearly wasn't ready to end his coaching career.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
I mean, it couldn't have worked out better for.
Speaker 6 (04:42):
Michigan and he's he's also the perfect coach for what
they need now, right, He's never had NCAA problems, he's
never had personal problems. His teams are tough, they are disciplined,
they're a lot like a you know, a Bochem Beckler team.
You could speak to this better than I could, but
you know, you think of a Sham Beckler team or
(05:02):
even a Jim Harbaugh team in Michigan, and it's kind
of like what you see with Utah.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
No doubt my son was getting recruited somewhat by Utah.
And I was in on a meeting, several meetings actually
during spring, kind of in the back, just watching how
he operates and what have you. One thing I love
about it is their defensive mindset. Their DBS is like, hey,
let's get up in your face man and man like,
(05:28):
like he's going to be able to recruit some dbs. Now, yeah,
he recruited Lineman, you know, because of poly thing and
going on in Utah. But but just where he is
just philosophically, I think he really you know, he wants
to get after a defense that I think absolutely fits
the the brand of Michigan for all these decades.
Speaker 6 (05:51):
No question, run the ball, play, physical, great defense. I mean,
it's it's it's a perfect fit in almost every way.
He is sixty six, right, but he's got a lot
of energy. And nobody's looking at this as him being
in charge of Michigan for eight or ten years. Like
Harball was right, they want somebody to get them back
(06:12):
on track both competitively and the culture within the building,
and he's perfect guy to do that for four or
five years.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
I almost see a little bit like the Husky's hiring
Chris Peterson and the one knock on Chris Peterson coming in,
or the one question we had on Chris Peterson, which
I think played out somewhat was is he going to
be able to get the four and five star guys
at Michigan?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
That was the question.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Is Chris Peterson going to be able to get the
four star guys at Washington? And he got some, but
Chris Peterson's recruiting classes weren't awesome. Chris's magic was him
making four and five star guys out of three star
guys that he was able to do. So is there
any question in Kyle Whittingham being able to get the
(07:00):
superstar athletes to Michigan, especially if he's playing this kind
of slobber knocker style football.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
I don't think so he will be able to get
the guys he needs to get to win with his system.
I mean, it's Michigan and the big you know, selling
point now is the money. And Michigan's got plenty of money,
right They got they got Larry.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Ellison's money for nil, they got seven.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
Home games times one hundred and ten thousand tickets sold
to help their revenue sharing, and all the Big ten
TV money. I think that with the resources at Michigan,
you know, he's gonna have a good staff, the Michigan tradition,
the Big Ten platform, I don't think he's gonna have
a problem getting the guys he needs to win. Does
(07:45):
that mean he's gonna he's gonna win the Big Ten
on a regular basis?
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I don't know. But does it mean he's gonna have
Michigan in the.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Twelve or sixteen team college football playoff pretty regularly?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (07:56):
I would bet bet he does. And the biggest thing
for that Michigan is he's going to extend the scandals.
I mean, it's just one dumpster fire after another for
them for four years.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
John Wilner with us. John, we heard from Lincoln Riley
a couple of days ago regarding the Notre Dame. You know,
of whatever this fiasco has become, and it feels like
we're listening to a sordid breakup. Right, what was your
response when you heard Lincoln Riley and the nature of
his allegations directed towards Notre Dame And what do you
(08:32):
think Notre Dame's best reply would be to Lincoln Riley
in those comments?
Speaker 6 (08:38):
I mean, Notre Dame kind of got to jump on
the Trojans by announcing the series.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
With BYU before USC and Notre Dame had announced that
their series was on hiatus.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
You know, both both sides are out acting in their
own self interest and blaming the other side.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
And that's that is what college sports is all about.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
Whether it's you know, the conference is battling over the
CFP or USC and Notre Dame disagreeing over their series.
Everybody is protecting their territory. And this is a downstream
issue from USC leaving the Pack twelve. Right, if they
(09:22):
won the Pac twelve, there would not be a problem
playing Notre Dame. And also the College Football Playoff, the
CFP is dominating every decision that every conference and every
school are making.
Speaker 8 (09:33):
Right.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
That is, USC saw what happened with Notre Dame. They
saw the report that Notre Dame has this special deal.
They don't want to give Notre Dame any any more benefits.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Of the doubt.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
It's all the CFP is gobbling up the sport. Now,
some people might think that's good. I don't necessarily think
it is good, but that is what's happening. I mean, look,
we're going to see that on Thursday, the Rose Bowl
is starting at one o'clock instead of two. It's been
at two o'clock for decades, right, but it's starting at
one because of the CFP, because they want to get
(10:07):
a triple header in and not knock the Sugar Bowls
kickoff too late. So the Rose Bolt finally read we're
going to move up an hour. That USC Notre Dame.
One example after another of the playoff gobbling up the sport.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Now you think that potentially this rivalry could be saved
in week zero?
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Right?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Tell us how dout that?
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Well?
Speaker 6 (10:30):
So the thing is USC doesn't want to play Notre
Dame in the middle of the season. I don't blame him,
They don't want to go to South Bend in October,
in the middle of the Big Ten season. They want
to play the first three weeks when all the non
conference games are played. The big issue right now is
Notre Dame.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Is already scheduled out.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
I mean, if you look, they got Texas, I think
they got Alabama, they got Auburn, they got all these
big time home and home series scheduled for like the
next four or five years.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
In the first couple of weeks of the season.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
They don't want to add USC and end up being
in a position where they're starting out you know, one
and two or zero to three. But because they're scheduled out,
they they're not going to put the Trojans in week.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Zero week one.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
I think if we're going to get to that point
where the teams play in a traditional non conference spot,
it's not gonna happen until the twenty thirties when Notre
Dame has some openings on its schedule. If we're up
to me, if I'm the Tzara College Football USC, Notre
Dame is the kickoff game for the whole season, played
on Week zero, and the championship game is in the
(11:40):
Rose Bawl in January first.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Yeah, they would say to be thirteen what thirteen weeks
right in between that one bywok, yeah, one by week
that would work again.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yep, yeah, no doubt. Now you said that.
Speaker 7 (11:53):
Everybody's responding to the CFP. We saw this year, uh,
the changes in the seed right, and there was a
second group of five team added. Do you see any
changes for next year and beyond? Based on how the
committee is watching the developments for the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
For this year, I do.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
Some of the changes have already been agreed upon. So
one thing that's going to be different starting next year
is there won't.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Be two group of five teams.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Even if the ACC champion is zero and one and eleven,
there's not going to be two group of five teams
because they have written into the new contract. And this
is confusing but important. Starting with next season, the CFP
has a new contract, so there are different rules, and
one of those rules is the champions of the ACC
(12:51):
Big twelve, Big ten and sec are automatically going to
get in. That leaves one spot for the group of five.
We won't see what happened this year year happen again.
But that's not the only change I'm sure at this point,
I think they're going to probably increase it to sixteen teams.
They have until January twenty third to decide if they're
(13:14):
going to expand the format for next year. They have
to tell ESPN by the twenty third of January. I
think they're going to do it, but we know for
sure there's going to be a change in the group
of five access and I think there'll be a change
in the number of teams. I think they're going to
expand to sixteen. Now, if they do expand a sixteen,
one question is going to be will the opening round
(13:36):
just be sixteen one verse sixteen two, verse fifteen, or
are they going to create some kind of stupid double buy.
I would not put it past the CFP to create
a stupid double buy system, even though they should just
do a straight one verse sixteen.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
But we'll have to see.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
John, You and I have been of a like mind
in that the power four teams that they have to
have involvement from the Group of five. Of course they're
gonna ask land right in Anti trust court. We already
know that they get poor legal advice because they were
advised to keep appealing Allston even though they were losing,
they go all the way to Supreme Court. They lose
(14:16):
nine to nothing in that one, and that's led to
the nil and the transfer port on all the mess
that we see. Are we certain that by pushing out
one team from the group of five that there could
be some anti trust exposure in a collective case from
the group of five by cutting.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
The air, I don't think so.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
I think as long as there is one access spot
for the Group of five, they will avoid.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Some kind of anti trust case.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
I mean, this is the piece that people all the
complaining that's going on about the Group of five. The
last couple of weeks, very few people were talking about
the fact that there's the legal exposure.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Of course they have to you.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Can't have half the teams in the FBS saying the
other half are banned from the postseason. Think about the BCS.
Speaker 8 (15:10):
The Senate, an I trust subcommittee was having hearings on
the BCS. If they try to keep the Group of
five out of the CFP, they're gonna be in court
in you know, three seconds, So there will always be
one spot. I don't think the Group of five will
will raise an issue with the change that's coming next season,
(15:31):
where that limits the group of five to one. As
long as they have that, I think everything will be fine.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Well, we're gonna keep seeing those blowouts in games that
people don't want to watch. I mean, the ratings for
James Madison Oregon were barely higher than the ratings for
Washington Oregon in a regular season matchup that didn't mean anything.
So you know, I know you compared the group of
five results that we saw to last year's NFL first round.
I kind of think John, that's a one year in
(15:57):
anomaly for the NFL because the first matchups this year,
we could see four or five of the six lower
seeds win in the NFL this year, and then you know,
go back to twenty twenty two five point differential, including
a one point game and a three point game. The
twenty twenty three playoffs had a one point wildcard game.
I don't know if you can really use the NFL
(16:19):
wild card game as a comparison, can you.
Speaker 6 (16:22):
Well maybe that was a one year an nominally, but
look at what the CFPS last year first round game,
Ohio State forty two, Tennessee seventeen. Look at the quarterfinal,
Ohio State led Oregon thirty four to nothing right, right,
So my point is whether whether that you know, the
ACC screwed up. That's the reason James Madison was in
(16:43):
the ACC tiebreaker was completely screwed up. Miami should have
been in it as the ACC representative, which would have
opened the spot for Notre Dame and there would have
been one group of five. But there's always going to
be a couple of lopsided games. I think in the
first rounds. I just do and and the as as
long as the CFP is going up against the NFL
(17:03):
on that Saturday in December, there's good. The ratings are
going to be bad. The NFL is taking no prisoners.
I mean, you guys saw the matchups they put up
against the CFP two saturdays ago. Uh, there were big
time matchups, right. They are going to continue to do that,
basically staying too the CFP get off our lawn.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
We were here first, and.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
They were the NFL had that third Saturday in December first,
and then the CFP moved in and they're they're not
gonna mess with Goodell's not messing around.
Speaker 7 (17:34):
There, John Wilner with us. John, you're like that that
buddy that we all want to have, that just you
know so dog on much about college football. I just
want to go out and have a stake and a
bottle of wine and just kill I just talked college
football like for four hours with you, but I love it.
I don't want to lead you someplace that that uh,
that maybe you have a stronger opinion, But I'm gonna
(17:56):
just give you the floor here on my last question,
what's on your mind that we haven't discussed, Whether you're
going to write about it in a column or what
have you? The playoffs coming up? What's on John Wilner's mind?
Speaker 6 (18:11):
Oh goodness, gracious. I mean to be honest, I think
that the NFL situation is a bigger threat than folks realize. Right,
And as I'm sure you guys know, the NFL is
talking about opening up their media deal, right, I mean,
it's only been three years. They want to open up
(18:34):
the media deal. They want to add Goodell wants to
add the eighteenth game. Right now, my understanding is they
want to add the eighteenth game. They want to move
the Super Bowl back to President's Day weekend? Right, Well,
what's going to happen there? That probably means that they're
going to have yet another regular season weekend in January
when the CFP is trying to get oxygen and attention,
(18:58):
and I think college football is in a is, you know,
headed into the ABYSS if it continues to go up
against put its postseason up against the NFL. They got
to figure out a way to fix the calendar and
move it, move everything forward, and next year the championship
(19:18):
game is like December January twenty fifth. It's ridiculously late.
They got to get it back to where they're playing
close to January first and getting the season over with
before the final weeks of the NFL and the NFL playoffs.
And and to me, that's a that's a real big
The calendar is a huge issue.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
The NFL is.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Out for blood in this matchup, and that's a losing
battle for college football.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
August August games are coming. Yeah, I think August games
are coming.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
There's no reason they should not play.
Speaker 6 (19:53):
There's no reason they should not start everybody on week zero,
and that would give them a lot more flexibility.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
John, you had a seven game win streak come to
an end with Hawaiian winners.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Hell of a game on Christmas Eve. That was a
great game.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Oh my goodness, Hawaii got to win late over cal
but you are still a sizzling twelve and five on
the season. In Wilner's winner. So here's what we want.
Give it, Savior, Wilner's winner, pick for last. Give us
the winners of the other three college football playoff games.
We got Miami, Ohio State, we got Oregon, Texas Tech,
(20:30):
we got Alabama, Indiana, and we got.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Ole miss Georgia.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
So Savior Willner's winner, pick for last, and give us
the winner of the other three games.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Well, just outright winners.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
I think that Georgia will handle Mississippi Georgia is they
are a juggernaut right now. I think Indiana Alabama's gonna
be a great game, a great game, and I think
that there's potential for Ohio State and Miami to be
a great game too. I'm of the opinion that the
teams that have buys are at a competitive disadvantage. Three
(21:04):
and a half weeks off is a long time, and
the teams that just played ten days ago are in
much better shape.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
So which leads us to I would like Willner's winner.
I'll take the Ducks. I think that they are favored
by one and a half. Was the last time I look.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Here, but we can give you one and a half.
I mean, I'll take two and a half.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
Hey, you know what I take the Ducks if it
were three and a half. I think they're gonna beat
Texas Tech handily. And I would also not be surprised
to see Oregon end up in the championship game.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Okay, all right, sounds good. I think you're right.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
I think they beat Texas Tech should be a kind
of a low scoring game. I would think, though, because
I think both those plays are very, very good. John,
we appreciate it. I want to ask you before we
let you guys who want to ask.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
You one favor? All right, one favor?
Speaker 5 (21:52):
Hit me.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Illinois is beating Tennessee right now in the Music City. Boy,
if if Illinois wins, they finish nine and four, can
we at least then say, in all of our pregame
or our preseason, you know college football breakdowns that you do,
can you at least not use the words the Huskies
didn't beat anyone good in twenty twenty five, because a
(22:15):
nine and four Big Ten team that wins a bowl
game over an SEC team, in my opinion, is a
good football team, and the Huskies kicked the crap out
of Illinois.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
They did.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
That was their best win of the season, and I
would think that Illinois will have a good chance to
enter the last AP poll with that win over Tennessee,
which would give Washington one win over a ranked opponent.
And you'd have to, I mean, any explanation in Washington
season would have to include they did that. They had
(22:48):
to win over a ranked opponent. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Love it. Thanks John, Happy New Year. We'll talk to
you next week, Sandy. Guys, you bet John Weller five.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Twenty five back after this, we'll talk some more college
football and the NFL as well. We'll get back to
our Sam Donald conversation with you on ninety three point
three k JRFM
This is Duke of Duke Seafood letting you know that
this hour of Softian dick on your home for the
Huskies and Kraken is probably brought to you by Duke Seafood.
Why not make it a Duke's night tonight. Reserve your
table today at Dukeseafood dot com. On Sports Radio ninety
three point three KJR.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
FM, It's time for a weekly PAC twelve conversation with
Sennose a Mercury News reporter John Wilner, brought to you
by Simply Seattle. Our friends at simply Seattle dot com
have the most amazing collection of all things Seattle Seahawks
gear UW hats the largest selection of Sonics gear.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Learn more at simply Seattle dot com.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Hi, John, how's the holidays treating the Wilner Clan?
Speaker 5 (00:46):
Oh, Welcome, Happy Holidays, Happy.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
New Year, Happy New Year's. We'll move a little bit
towards your window. You're you're breaking up already on us, John,
So we're kidding.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Network, Get on, Moss, I'm right now.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Oh, I gotcha.
Speaker 6 (01:01):
The engine is off and hopefully the reception is going
to be okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
All right, Well, That's that sounds good, right there. John.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Let's let's start with the the madness that has been
ann arbor for the last three or three weeks or so,
and it ends with Kyle Whittingham going to a Michigan
I thought you your quote on Twitter in response was
very funny, Hugh. His quote was quote, this sport is
bleep face drunk.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
And I'm here for all of it. That sounds response,
So go ahead.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm here to tell us why you're here for all
of it.
Speaker 6 (01:34):
It was unlike any other sport in the lawlessness, the
lack of leadership, the insanity that happens, and it's it's
great content, and it seems to be getting even more
insane by the month.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Really. I mean, you think.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
About Michigan and everything they did wrong and yet they
still end up with a Hall of Fame coach, and
you think about State and it took them almost two
months and they got turned down left and right, and
they end up with Matt Campbell, who's one of the
best coaches in the country.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Big ten did very well.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
For itself during this the coaching carousel cycle here and Michigan,
it's like, you know, they stumble and bumble and then
all of a sudden.
Speaker 5 (02:18):
They've got Kyle Whitningham. It's incredible.
Speaker 7 (02:21):
Well, because you're on in Seattle, a lot of folks
had had a lot of speculation about whether Jedfish attempted
to get the job. There's reports of that. What do
you believe happened in that regard? Did Jedfish try to
be a candidate for that job? And if so, what
(02:42):
was Michigan's response? Tell us about all that?
Speaker 6 (02:44):
I know exactly what Michigan did not see with Fish.
I mean, certainly he was a second tier candidate conversations.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
I don't know how.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
I can't confirm that he spoke directly to the Wolverine
administration in their search firm, or if his agency did,
But certainly there was interest on his part. Why would
there not be. It's Michigan, but for whatever reason, they
were not real high on him. Now, it would have
(03:18):
happened if Kyle Whittingham had turned them down, and maybe
Jeff Brown from Louisville had turned them down. I think
that eventually they probably would have gotten to the point
where they gave Fish serious consideration. But there were several
layers of candidates above him.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Why do you think Whittingham would have been or why
do you or do you not think Whittingham would have
been a candidate? If you would have retired after last season,
could you have seen them coming to Kyle Whittingham after
a year of I don't know, being in the media or.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
What have you.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
Yeah, it doesn't seem to be his The vibe would
have been as good to get winning him now he's
fresh off a ten win season, if he had remember
in twenty twenty four, they lost Cam Rising to that
hand injury. They finished second to last in the Big Twelve.
(04:09):
It was like Whittingham's worst year in a decade. And
if he had retired off of that and then he's
out of coaching for a year, whether he's in the
media or just kind of hovering on the side of
the industry, I just don't know that it would have
been an easy enough sell to Michigan fans, Whereas right
now he's an easy sell, right ten win coach going
(04:31):
to the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
He's been stepped down two.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
Weeks earlier and clearly wasn't ready to end his coaching career.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
I mean, it couldn't have worked out better for.
Speaker 6 (04:42):
Michigan and he's he's also the perfect coach for what
they need now, right, He's never had NCAA problems, he's
never had personal problems. His teams are tough, they are disciplined,
they're a lot like a you know, a Bochem Beckler team.
You could speak to this better than I could, but
you know, you think of a Sham Beckler team or
(05:02):
even a Jim Harbaugh team in Michigan, and it's kind
of like what you see with Utah.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
No doubt my son was getting recruited somewhat by Utah.
And I was in on a meeting, several meetings actually
during spring, kind of in the back, just watching how
he operates and what have you. One thing I love
about it is their defensive mindset. Their DBS is like, hey,
let's get up in your face man and man like,
(05:28):
like he's going to be able to recruit some dbs. Now, yeah,
he recruited Lineman, you know, because of poly thing and
going on in Utah. But but just where he is
just philosophically, I think he really you know, he wants
to get after a defense that I think absolutely fits
the the brand of Michigan for all these decades.
Speaker 6 (05:51):
No question, run the ball, play, physical, great defense. I mean,
it's it's it's a perfect fit in almost every way.
He is sixty six, right, but he's got a lot
of energy. And nobody's looking at this as him being
in charge of Michigan for eight or ten years. Like
Harball was right, they want somebody to get them back
(06:12):
on track both competitively and the culture within the building,
and he's perfect guy to do that for four or
five years.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
I almost see a little bit like the Husky's hiring
Chris Peterson and the one knock on Chris Peterson coming in,
or the one question we had on Chris Peterson, which
I think played out somewhat was is he going to
be able to get the four and five star guys
at Michigan?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
That was the question.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Is Chris Peterson going to be able to get the
four star guys at Washington? And he got some, but
Chris Peterson's recruiting classes weren't awesome. Chris's magic was him
making four and five star guys out of three star
guys that he was able to do. So is there
any question in Kyle Whittingham being able to get the
(07:00):
superstar athletes to Michigan, especially if he's playing this kind
of slobber knocker style football.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
I don't think so he will be able to get
the guys he needs to get to win with his system.
I mean, it's Michigan and the big you know, selling
point now is the money. And Michigan's got plenty of money,
right They got they got Larry.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Ellison's money for nil, they got seven.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
Home games times one hundred and ten thousand tickets sold
to help their revenue sharing, and all the Big ten
TV money. I think that with the resources at Michigan,
you know, he's gonna have a good staff, the Michigan tradition,
the Big Ten platform, I don't think he's gonna have
a problem getting the guys he needs to win. Does
(07:45):
that mean he's gonna he's gonna win the Big Ten
on a regular basis?
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I don't know. But does it mean he's gonna have
Michigan in the.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Twelve or sixteen team college football playoff pretty regularly?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (07:56):
I would bet bet he does. And the biggest thing
for that Michigan is he's going to extend the scandals.
I mean, it's just one dumpster fire after another for
them for four years.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
John Wilner with us. John, we heard from Lincoln Riley
a couple of days ago regarding the Notre Dame. You know,
of whatever this fiasco has become, and it feels like
we're listening to a sordid breakup. Right, what was your
response when you heard Lincoln Riley and the nature of
his allegations directed towards Notre Dame And what do you
(08:32):
think Notre Dame's best reply would be to Lincoln Riley
in those comments?
Speaker 6 (08:38):
I mean, Notre Dame kind of got to jump on
the Trojans by announcing the series.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
With BYU before USC and Notre Dame had announced that
their series was on hiatus.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
You know, both both sides are out acting in their
own self interest and blaming the other side.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
And that's that is what college sports is all about.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
Whether it's you know, the conference is battling over the
CFP or USC and Notre Dame disagreeing over their series.
Everybody is protecting their territory. And this is a downstream
issue from USC leaving the Pack twelve. Right, if they
(09:22):
won the Pac twelve, there would not be a problem
playing Notre Dame. And also the College Football Playoff, the
CFP is dominating every decision that every conference and every
school are making.
Speaker 8 (09:33):
Right.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
That is, USC saw what happened with Notre Dame. They
saw the report that Notre Dame has this special deal.
They don't want to give Notre Dame any any more benefits.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Of the doubt.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
It's all the CFP is gobbling up the sport. Now,
some people might think that's good. I don't necessarily think
it is good, but that is what's happening. I mean, look,
we're going to see that on Thursday, the Rose Bowl
is starting at one o'clock instead of two. It's been
at two o'clock for decades, right, but it's starting at
one because of the CFP, because they want to get
(10:07):
a triple header in and not knock the Sugar Bowls
kickoff too late. So the Rose Bolt finally read we're
going to move up an hour. That USC Notre Dame.
One example after another of the playoff gobbling up the sport.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Now you think that potentially this rivalry could be saved
in week zero?
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Right?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Tell us how dout that?
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Well?
Speaker 6 (10:30):
So the thing is USC doesn't want to play Notre
Dame in the middle of the season. I don't blame him,
They don't want to go to South Bend in October,
in the middle of the Big Ten season. They want
to play the first three weeks when all the non
conference games are played. The big issue right now is
Notre Dame.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Is already scheduled out.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
I mean, if you look, they got Texas, I think
they got Alabama, they got Auburn, they got all these
big time home and home series scheduled for like the
next four or five years.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
In the first couple of weeks of the season.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
They don't want to add USC and end up being
in a position where they're starting out you know, one
and two or zero to three. But because they're scheduled out,
they they're not going to put the Trojans in week.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Zero week one.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
I think if we're going to get to that point
where the teams play in a traditional non conference spot,
it's not gonna happen until the twenty thirties when Notre
Dame has some openings on its schedule. If we're up
to me, if I'm the Tzara College Football USC, Notre
Dame is the kickoff game for the whole season, played
on Week zero, and the championship game is in the
(11:40):
Rose Bawl in January first.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Yeah, they would say to be thirteen what thirteen weeks
right in between that one bywok, yeah, one by week
that would work again.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yep, yeah, no doubt. Now you said that.
Speaker 7 (11:53):
Everybody's responding to the CFP. We saw this year, uh,
the changes in the seed right, and there was a
second group of five team added. Do you see any
changes for next year and beyond? Based on how the
committee is watching the developments for the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
For this year, I do.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
Some of the changes have already been agreed upon. So
one thing that's going to be different starting next year
is there won't.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Be two group of five teams.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Even if the ACC champion is zero and one and eleven,
there's not going to be two group of five teams
because they have written into the new contract. And this
is confusing but important. Starting with next season, the CFP
has a new contract, so there are different rules, and
one of those rules is the champions of the ACC
(12:51):
Big twelve, Big ten and sec are automatically going to
get in. That leaves one spot for the group of five.
We won't see what happened this year year happen again.
But that's not the only change I'm sure at this point,
I think they're going to probably increase it to sixteen teams.
They have until January twenty third to decide if they're
(13:14):
going to expand the format for next year. They have
to tell ESPN by the twenty third of January. I
think they're going to do it, but we know for
sure there's going to be a change in the group
of five access and I think there'll be a change
in the number of teams. I think they're going to
expand to sixteen. Now, if they do expand a sixteen,
one question is going to be will the opening round
(13:36):
just be sixteen one verse sixteen two, verse fifteen, or
are they going to create some kind of stupid double buy.
I would not put it past the CFP to create
a stupid double buy system, even though they should just
do a straight one verse sixteen.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
But we'll have to see.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
John, You and I have been of a like mind
in that the power four teams that they have to
have involvement from the Group of five. Of course they're
gonna ask land right in Anti trust court. We already
know that they get poor legal advice because they were
advised to keep appealing Allston even though they were losing,
they go all the way to Supreme Court. They lose
(14:16):
nine to nothing in that one, and that's led to
the nil and the transfer port on all the mess
that we see. Are we certain that by pushing out
one team from the group of five that there could
be some anti trust exposure in a collective case from
the group of five by cutting.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
The air, I don't think so.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
I think as long as there is one access spot
for the Group of five, they will avoid.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Some kind of anti trust case.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
I mean, this is the piece that people all the
complaining that's going on about the Group of five. The
last couple of weeks, very few people were talking about
the fact that there's the legal exposure.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Of course they have to you.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Can't have half the teams in the FBS saying the
other half are banned from the postseason. Think about the BCS.
Speaker 8 (15:10):
The Senate, an I trust subcommittee was having hearings on
the BCS. If they try to keep the Group of
five out of the CFP, they're gonna be in court
in you know, three seconds, So there will always be
one spot. I don't think the Group of five will
will raise an issue with the change that's coming next season,
(15:31):
where that limits the group of five to one. As
long as they have that, I think everything will be fine.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Well, we're gonna keep seeing those blowouts in games that
people don't want to watch. I mean, the ratings for
James Madison Oregon were barely higher than the ratings for
Washington Oregon in a regular season matchup that didn't mean anything.
So you know, I know you compared the group of
five results that we saw to last year's NFL first round.
I kind of think John, that's a one year in
(15:57):
anomaly for the NFL because the first matchups this year,
we could see four or five of the six lower
seeds win in the NFL this year, and then you know,
go back to twenty twenty two five point differential, including
a one point game and a three point game. The
twenty twenty three playoffs had a one point wildcard game.
I don't know if you can really use the NFL
(16:19):
wild card game as a comparison, can you.
Speaker 6 (16:22):
Well maybe that was a one year an nominally, but
look at what the CFPS last year first round game,
Ohio State forty two, Tennessee seventeen. Look at the quarterfinal,
Ohio State led Oregon thirty four to nothing right, right,
So my point is whether whether that you know, the
ACC screwed up. That's the reason James Madison was in
(16:43):
the ACC tiebreaker was completely screwed up. Miami should have
been in it as the ACC representative, which would have
opened the spot for Notre Dame and there would have
been one group of five. But there's always going to
be a couple of lopsided games. I think in the
first rounds. I just do and and the as as
long as the CFP is going up against the NFL
(17:03):
on that Saturday in December, there's good. The ratings are
going to be bad. The NFL is taking no prisoners.
I mean, you guys saw the matchups they put up
against the CFP two saturdays ago. Uh, there were big
time matchups, right. They are going to continue to do that,
basically staying too the CFP get off our lawn.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
We were here first, and.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
They were the NFL had that third Saturday in December first,
and then the CFP moved in and they're they're not
gonna mess with Goodell's not messing around.
Speaker 7 (17:34):
There, John Wilner with us. John, you're like that that
buddy that we all want to have, that just you
know so dog on much about college football. I just
want to go out and have a stake and a
bottle of wine and just kill I just talked college
football like for four hours with you, but I love it.
I don't want to lead you someplace that that uh,
that maybe you have a stronger opinion, But I'm gonna
(17:56):
just give you the floor here on my last question,
what's on your mind that we haven't discussed, Whether you're
going to write about it in a column or what
have you? The playoffs coming up? What's on John Wilner's mind?
Speaker 6 (18:11):
Oh goodness, gracious. I mean to be honest, I think
that the NFL situation is a bigger threat than folks realize. Right,
And as I'm sure you guys know, the NFL is
talking about opening up their media deal, right, I mean,
it's only been three years. They want to open up
(18:34):
the media deal. They want to add Goodell wants to
add the eighteenth game. Right now, my understanding is they
want to add the eighteenth game. They want to move
the Super Bowl back to President's Day weekend? Right, Well,
what's going to happen there? That probably means that they're
going to have yet another regular season weekend in January
when the CFP is trying to get oxygen and attention,
(18:58):
and I think college football is in a is, you know,
headed into the ABYSS if it continues to go up
against put its postseason up against the NFL. They got
to figure out a way to fix the calendar and
move it, move everything forward, and next year the championship
(19:18):
game is like December January twenty fifth. It's ridiculously late.
They got to get it back to where they're playing
close to January first and getting the season over with
before the final weeks of the NFL and the NFL playoffs.
And and to me, that's a that's a real big
The calendar is a huge issue.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
The NFL is.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Out for blood in this matchup, and that's a losing
battle for college football.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
August August games are coming. Yeah, I think August games
are coming.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
There's no reason they should not play.
Speaker 6 (19:53):
There's no reason they should not start everybody on week zero,
and that would give them a lot more flexibility.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
John, you had a seven game win streak come to
an end with Hawaiian winners.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Hell of a game on Christmas Eve. That was a
great game.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Oh my goodness, Hawaii got to win late over cal
but you are still a sizzling twelve and five on
the season. In Wilner's winner. So here's what we want.
Give it, Savior, Wilner's winner, pick for last. Give us
the winners of the other three college football playoff games.
We got Miami, Ohio State, we got Oregon, Texas Tech,
(20:30):
we got Alabama, Indiana, and we got.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Ole miss Georgia.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
So Savior Willner's winner, pick for last, and give us
the winner of the other three games.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Well, just outright winners.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
I think that Georgia will handle Mississippi Georgia is they
are a juggernaut right now. I think Indiana Alabama's gonna
be a great game, a great game, and I think
that there's potential for Ohio State and Miami to be
a great game too. I'm of the opinion that the
teams that have buys are at a competitive disadvantage. Three
(21:04):
and a half weeks off is a long time, and
the teams that just played ten days ago are in
much better shape.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
So which leads us to I would like Willner's winner.
I'll take the Ducks. I think that they are favored
by one and a half. Was the last time I look.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Here, but we can give you one and a half.
I mean, I'll take two and a half.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
Hey, you know what I take the Ducks if it
were three and a half. I think they're gonna beat
Texas Tech handily. And I would also not be surprised
to see Oregon end up in the championship game.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Okay, all right, sounds good. I think you're right.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
I think they beat Texas Tech should be a kind
of a low scoring game. I would think, though, because
I think both those plays are very, very good. John,
we appreciate it. I want to ask you before we
let you guys who want to ask.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
You one favor? All right, one favor?
Speaker 5 (21:52):
Hit me.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Illinois is beating Tennessee right now in the Music City. Boy,
if if Illinois wins, they finish nine and four, can
we at least then say, in all of our pregame
or our preseason, you know college football breakdowns that you do,
can you at least not use the words the Huskies
didn't beat anyone good in twenty twenty five, because a
(22:15):
nine and four Big Ten team that wins a bowl
game over an SEC team, in my opinion, is a
good football team, and the Huskies kicked the crap out
of Illinois.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
They did.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
That was their best win of the season, and I
would think that Illinois will have a good chance to
enter the last AP poll with that win over Tennessee,
which would give Washington one win over a ranked opponent.
And you'd have to, I mean, any explanation in Washington
season would have to include they did that. They had
(22:48):
to win over a ranked opponent. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Love it. Thanks John, Happy New Year. We'll talk to
you next week, Sandy. Guys, you bet John Weller five.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Twenty five back after this, we'll talk some more college
football and the NFL as well. We'll get back to
our Sam Donald conversation with you on ninety three point
three k JRFM
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