April 18, 2025 • 20 mins
Lance Zierlein of the NFL Network joins Dick Fain and Hugh Millen to discuss the depth in this year’s NFL Draft, Jalen Milroe’s skill set, if the Bama quarterback can be coached up at the next level, the “it” factor, Travis Hunter’s two-way ability, and what he has said.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Part of our exclusive in depth coverage of the NFL.
Your home for the twelfth Man proudly presents NFL Network
Draft analyst Lanserline. Brought to you by Moss Bay Hall,
Queen Anne Beer Hall's sister location on the East Side
in Kirkland. Incredible food, local craft beers and fresh cocktails
with friends. Come check out Moss Bay Hall in the
(00:21):
heart of downtown Kirkland. Now with Lancerline.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Here's SAFTI and did.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Great to have Lanzerline come back with us today, Take two,
Take one. We had a little you know, phone issues yesterday,
but he was gracious enough to come back today. Before
we chat with him, I want to remind you testimonials
coming up the next segment at four to forty five.
Who is your guy? Hawks fans? Who is your guy?
At eighteen? Who is your guy that you would celebrate
(00:48):
with family and friends if they selected at eighteen? Give
us a text at four nine, four to five to one,
Who and why do you want this player? And we'll
have Hugh breakdown your responses at four forty five.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Land Zerline NFL dot com. How are you man? How
thanks for joining us again today?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah, we would love to I mean, we had some
questions I wanted to answer, and I was like, man,
I can't believe this is a work, and so I
had to come back.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
You know, let's let's talk about the depth of this
draft for a second. I mean, we spend so much
time talking about the first round because that's what's sexy,
that's what everybody you know. We can only add US mortals,
unlike you. US mortals can only handle like twenty five
to thirty two names, right, we can't handle like two
three hundred like you do. Is is this draft deeper
(01:35):
with starters down the line than most drafts or is
it about the same?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I think it is at certain positions. That question is
in a general sense, no, it's not deeper. But in
a specific sense, yeah, there are positions where it's a
lot deeper. Defensive tackle, running back, defensive end, slash edge.
So I think there's some good like quarterback. I don't
think there's a lot of long term starters at quarterback,
but I think what there are good long time backups
(02:06):
that can be low end starters that may drift between
back and forth between you know, starting and backup. I
think that's kind of what this this draft is actually,
when it's all said and done, is gonna end up
having a lot of But what you have is it's
not top heavy, so it's not great.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Once you get past the first, you know, three.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Picks, it gets a little You get good players, but
I think they are players would be frankly a.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
Lot of them.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Most of them will be, you know, somewhere between twelve
and twenty six in most drafts, and some of those
guys are going to go inside the first fourteen picks.
So you know, Ashton Genty is a special player, but
he's a running back, so you know, in most drafts
he's not gonna go inside the top maybe six seven picks.
(02:52):
This year, it's different because Genty is one of the
best players in the draft. So you know, I don't
think cam Ward is one of the best players in
the draft. I think it's Genty, Ashton gent Abdol Carter,
and Travis Hunter. But quarterbacks get pushed up and cam
Wart's obviously the best quarterback.
Speaker 6 (03:09):
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I've been doing this
for twenty seven years and uh and even Travis Hunter.
Now he's the most special for the obvious reasons, the versatility,
but he's not the best corner in the last ten
or even five years. He's not the best wide receiver
in the last ten or even five years. It's just
the combination. He's the best in this draft. But but
(03:31):
but uh, and yeah in lanceerline with us, Uh, I'm
want to go back to what you said at the
onset of our segment here. You said you had a
lot of questions that you were eager to answer. Uh,
let's throw it to you. What what are you what?
What questions were you eager to answer that you didn't
give an opportunity to a couple of days.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Well, so he yesterday they asked me about I think
the question was about Jaln Milroe. And with Jaln Milroe
because and Dicky, I think you had talked about maybe
broaching the subject of the Hawks taking him at eighteen
or considering him at eighteen, right, am I?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Right?
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Is that? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
For me, it's more second round. I would be shocked
if they took it second or eighteen.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
But then and we had Greg Bell from the TNT
today and his mock he put him at the He
put put him to the Hawks in the in the
second round.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I think eighteen would be a stretch.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
But I am totally tantalized by jailing Milrose athleticism.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
There's no question.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Yeah, and you should be.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
He is you know, he's this is a guy who
is you know, his athletic profile is wide receiver running
back with the size of a week side linebacker. I mean,
it's it's a really tantalizing profile, to be sure.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
The problem is that's right.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And yesterday you asked if there'd ever be a time
where I thought that he could be a functional enough
passing right coach. I just I don't think, Yeah, could
he be coached there? I just don't think so. I
think and you could answer this better than I could.
But I really, in all the years of watching football,
and of course, you know, over the last fifteen or so,
really studying the position closely, I just I think accuracy,
(05:03):
there's a natural accuracy.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
That a player has or doesn't have.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
It's it's not dissimilar to the way hitters have hand
eye coordination, the way you know golfers. There's a certain
thing that is going to be natural about golfing, about
shooting a basketball. I think certain things are more correctable
than others. Not I've really dug in on on can
accuracy be corrected because Jake Locker was a quarterback. You
I'm sure you remember it, and it just never got
(05:28):
better for Jake Locker. I mean he sprayed it around
the Senior Bowl and never got any better. And everyone
just said, well, you can coach it up his feet.
You just get his feet right. You know, it's just
needs footwork. Well, I think accuracy is a very natural,
innate thing that you either have or you don't have.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
But one thing with Josh Allen is Josh Allen's taught us.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
And now you have to say, is Josh Allen the
outlier or how often can this you know, can this
be duplicated where the.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Accuracy really improves?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
And I saw a feature on Josh Allen where he
was talking about what he did to get better in
the way that you know, he and his coach and
his trainer really worked on certain things in terms of
taking his thought, his throwing thought kind of like a
swing thought in golf. He had to start thinking differently
when he was the release in the football in terms
of where the release point was. It was a little
(06:17):
earlier in the throw as opposed to later in the throw.
Speaker 7 (06:20):
And you know these are things that I was fascinated
because this is stuff, you know that's not my you know,
it's not my wheelhouse to understand how to coach up
a quarterback.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
So it was really interesting to hear this, and so
it gave me hope that some other quarterbacks who had
those issues could get better. I think you can get
better with the right technique, with the right footwork when
everything's right. Here's one of the problems, and this is
across the board. My dad was an l coach, so
he always talked about the fact that he was getting
players into the league more and more that were not
(06:54):
that were less and less technically sound because college football
it's just about play fast.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
And a lot less technique is being taught.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Now you have less practice time in the NFL than
you ever have, so it's harder to teach technique. And
I think the problem you have is a lot of
quarterbacks really want to emulate the homes they want to emulate.
At some point, Aaron Rodgers is what a lot of
them emulated. And so you've got quarterbacks trying to make
these trick shots, these all platform throws, and it's not
and bad habits develop when you do that. And so
(07:23):
I think the problem is a lot of these guys
who come in with some accuracy issues, they're fundamentally flawed
in terms of their ability to deliver the ball in
a consistent, repeatable process. And with Jalen Milroe, you know
what I would worry about is he's not innately accurate.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
I think that's obvious when you.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Watch the tape on him, and I'm not sure that
it can get a lot better. And so when you're
not accurate, what you've got to do? I just look
at I think of a baseball analogy. If you're going
to strike out a lot, you better hit home runs.
If you hit home runs, then you can strike out more.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Well, when Lamar Jackson came into the league, I kind
of adopted that man. Trusted.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
You know, he's not the most accurate guy, but he
can hit a lot of home runs, so you have
to be okay with that. And over the time he's
actually gotten better. He has developed a little bit better acturacy.
He said, he's a better passer, he's a better quarterback.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
From the pocket.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
So could that happen with Milroe, Yeah, could happen with him.
But I think Lamar is still a little bit of
an outlier. I think Josh Allen is a little bit
of an outlier. And I think what Milroe is teams
are going to bet on, Hey, we either have a
superstar dual threat quarterback who may be heavier run than pass,
or we have a guy that we might be able
to switch positions with, because I've already talked to teams
(08:33):
who said, look, if it didn't work out, we've got
an absolutely elite explosive athlete, we'll figure something out.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
I mean they said that about Cordell Stewart. He was
slash right, But how many how many times have we
seen a guy you know, get drafted as a quarterback,
try him at quarterback for a year or two, and
then convert him to another position you mentioned will linebacker. Yeah,
his frame, he's about as a robust of a of
(09:04):
an athlete. Like if you said, okay, I'm gonna take uh,
you know, twenty two I can clone this guy twenty
two time, you know, one one player twenty two ways, right,
and then let him play all eleven positions on offense
and all eleven positions on defense. Like he might be
the guy you'd clone to do that, right, But uh,
(09:25):
you know. But but I think to your point about accuracy,
I think most of the time for me and studying it,
it's it's not a mechanical thing.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
It's more of like.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
How do you how do you process leading a dynamic
For example, you throw that three cut, the okie route,
the semi that twelve yard speed out on the sixth step.
If you look at when quarterbacks when they break their
hand and what they're the receivers going down the field
and he still has to break out and you've got
to anticipate where that spot is. I think it's more
(09:59):
of a an issue of do you hit the spot
as opposed to mechanics. But I said, like ninety ninety
five percent of the time, there's a five or ten
percent of the time where there's actual mechanical deficiency that
kinetic chain. And I think in Milro's case, he's one
of those five ten percent guys that actually has not
(10:19):
just the vectoring issue that I talked about, Hey, can
you lead a guy in dynamic accuracy, but actually mechanical issues.
Can you actually hit the spot that your brain tells
you to hit?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, and you know the timing, you can always you
can cheat it by saying, okay, on the fifth step,
we're cutting it loose like you can. You know, there's
some things you can do. But to me, it's a
lot like a basketball, like a point guard. I feel
like you can always take things from other sports, and
that's why I will reference certain things. Magic Johnson had,
amazed Johnstock incredible spatial awareness. Steve Nash had it, so
(10:55):
the ability to recognize space and to understand how to
deliver pass In terms of with as you as you
mentioned the victory that that is something that I don't
think you can learn. I think you have it or
you don't have it. There's certain guys that have it.
There are certain guys that don't have it, and the
ones that don't have it have to just kind of
struggle through and they'll be a little bit inconsistent. Ones
(11:17):
like Joe Burrow that have it are really are really
special because he didn't have a big army, didn't have
special physical traits, but Joe Montpana had it. I mean,
it's it's it's that Tom Brady has it. It's an
ability to deliver throws. And when you have that, it
opens the field up to you. It opens up you
don't have to you're not as limited because you don't
(11:39):
have the velocity to throw it into tight windows. It
just it makes you such a so much better quarterback.
And not every quarterback is.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Going to be like that. Obviously, Russell Wilson to me,
I loved Russe.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
I thought Russell Wilson was wildly underrated for most of
his career. I didn't think he got the I didn't
think he got the credit he deserved. And and you know,
Russ hung on to it too long. A play extender,
He's gonna take some sacks, but he was a he
was a playmaker. And my dad won a super Bowl
with the Steelers because Ben Roethlisberger, who drove him crazy
as no lighte coach because.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
He took so many sacks.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
You know, he also been taken, but he giveth because
he also could make plays to want a super Bowl
for you. So, you know, I think the quarterback conversation
is an interesting one because there's so many different types.
There's so many flavors quarterback, and sometime we get to
caught up and just wanting to put somebody in one
particular type of style where everyone wants to get the
(12:31):
next to this guy or the next that guy.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
But there's different ways to win.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
And Jared Goff, there's nothing sexy about Jared Goff. But
Jared Goff had a great year this year and the
Lions went deep and had they not had the injuries,
that might have been a super Bowl winning team, but
ultimately they were just two injured and there's nothing you
know Jared Goffhis was at one point a reclamation project
after he left the Rams, and it looked.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Like his time with the trout was going to come
to it end shortly.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
And now all of a sudden, you know that accuracy
and throwing wide receivers over and his field for the
game as a game manager, now you see you you're
gonna win at a high level with that type of
quarterback as well.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Well.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Zeroline joining us from an NFL dot Com this weekly conversation.
When you when you talked about the less practice time
and a name came to my mind immediately, and that's
Travis Hunter. I mean, how elite can Travis Hunter be
at anything? If he's playing two positions with limited practice time.
You got an offensive coordinator and wide receiver coach arguing
(13:28):
with a defensive coordinator and a cornerbacks coach for his time.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
I had a conversation with it with a defensive minded
head coach last night and I asked him, what do
you how do you view him? And he viewed Travis
as a wide receiver first, corner second.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
I said, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
I thought you would have been the other way and
he said, well, he said, I think that it's harder
to learn wide receiver as a as an NFL rookie.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
And which which surprised me.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
I thought more technique time would be needed as a
corner and because you know, you're playing backwards so much,
and he said, now, he said, I think I think
it would be harder for Travis if he doesn't spend
more practice time as a wide receiver and then you
roll them over to the other side for a few
snaps every game when you need them to be a
third cornerback. He thought that that would be the better play.
(14:22):
But when I ask him, because I asked him about
playing both ways, he goes, I don't see how he
could because you can't to your point, he can't spend
that many time.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
He can't spend that time in meetings.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Like there's meeting times are separate by positions and the
practice reps you would have him gas. You know NFL
teams where the you know, it looks like the sports
brought is the it's the catapult system, I'm sure you're seeing.
And a lot of times they monitor how many steps
you take, and they monitor heart rate, they monitor everything,
and so what they're monitoring is when you have had
(14:53):
enough in practice, if you're going too hard. They'll back
guys down in practice because they don't. They understand that
league better. They understand wearing down to the physical wear
and tear on the player. They've done studies on it,
so they understand it better. When to pull guys debt
back in practice, all the reps that would be necessary
for him, they'd have to shut him down halfway through practice.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
They can't let him continue to go. It's not it's
not just the seventeen games.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
It's the consistent work and practice in the meetings and
the extra time after.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
It would be a tremendous toll.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And for a rookie, it's hard.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Enough to learn one position. So I think people think
this is a video game. Sometimes it's not. It's difficult, you.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Know, I've given a lot of thought to Travis Hunter.
I've changed a little bit of my opinion. A month ago,
I said I think that he's slightly better defensive player
than offense, so I would start him at defense. I've
watched a lot more tape since then. I've switched that
I think he's slightly better receiver prospect than he is
a corner prospect. But I got a friend who used
(15:57):
to be an NFL head coach. I texted him ran
this by uh because it seems so simple to me
what I would do, and I would ask this prior
to the draft. I would just say, Travis, first year,
you're either you're gonna play three downs on one side
of the ball, and you're gonna play third down on
the other side of the ball, and then we're gonna
(16:17):
go from there, because because obviously right and and and
what do you prefer? Yeah, and whether he says offense
or defense, I probably want him anyways. But what he
wants to do, he's gonna get. He that plan is
going to be the one that excites him the most.
(16:37):
So if he if he says offense, he's gonna play
three downs on offense, and then he's gonna be a
third down guy on on the on the sub packages
when it's you know, when in obvious passing situations and
he can go in and he can do that. That's
the way I would handle it. What's what's your response to, uh,
to that idea?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Well, I mean I love it. The problem is the
kids on on record is saying I need it. If
you don't plan on playing me both ways, don't even
draft me. I don't even want to play for you.
I mean I thought, I thought, first of all, that's
not all. Yeah, let's all plays, all plays both sides.
And I just thought, man, drafts, don't don't tell people
not to draft you. Don't tell people you might as
(17:19):
well that you might as well quit if you can't
play both ways. Like, don't make comments like that for
a draft. You just you don't need to do that.
But he just, you know, he's ultra competitive. He loves ball,
he's everything about it. You gotta be okay with the competitor,
because that's what it is, not being selfish. He's the
ultimate competitor. He's done it in college, he's.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Done it at a high level. But he doesn't know.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
What he doesn't know, and what he's about to run
into is a tremendous. It's the step up in competition
from the Big twelve to the NFL's is about.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
To be substantial.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
The physicality that the physicality is about to be substantial. Uh,
the speed, you know, he's going to have to become
a much better out runner. He he's not great. I
don't think he's getting from point A to point B.
He just uses natural ability against press, but NFL press
is going to really slow him up because he's not
real polished in that regards. Route run is not real polished.
(18:11):
Once the ball goes up, elite ball skills are incredible.
So I think getting from point A to point B,
he's gonna become really good at that once he gets work.
And I think that's where the technique stuff comes in,
is he really needs to learn that and he really
needs to be able to focus because he's not going
to get to the level he wants to be at
it either position. If he's bouncing back and forth between both,
(18:31):
it's just but he doesn't know that yet. He's played
twenty six hundred snaps the last two years of Colorado.
He has no idea what that toll is going to
be once he starts trying to do that kind of
stuff on the NFL in the NFL, but it's going
to be an interesting battle because he's going to be
steadfast and wanting to do this and coaches aren't going
to tell him no.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
No team is going to tell him no right up
the bat.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
But eventually a hard conversation is going to have to
be had, and frankly, I'm curious to see how goes.
Mike Brable made it sound like, Hey, we like guys
that can handle as much as possible. We're gonna put
as much on their plate.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
As they can handle, you know.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Rabel of course famously took some reps you know, around
the goal line. The defensive player caught touchdown passes. Bill
Belichick ran, Troy Brown, played wide receiver, Ram played some cornerback.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
Julian Edelman did that a little bit. So I don't
think he's a he's a you know.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
If Hunter falls the flour and the Patriots take him,
I don't think he's a verse to giving him reps
both sides, but I doubt seriously that he can hold
up if he tries it in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
We really thank you for coming on once again today,
and hopefully we'll get a chance to chat with you
next week at some point during Draft week.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Thanks man, Absolutely, we'll see if we can figure it out.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Thanks guys, you've been serline brought to you by Queen
Anne Beer Hall, Moss Bay Hall. We'll be at Queen
Anne Beer Hall on Wednesday, All Jackson, I can't wait
for the big Pillsers smash Burger's.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Smash Burger's.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Can I have a pillsner in one hand and the
card in the other announcing the picks?
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Can we do that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, you should, Okay,
Part of our exclusive in depth coverage of the NFL.
Your home for the twelfth Man proudly presents NFL Network
Draft analyst Lanserline. Brought to you by Moss Bay Hall,
Queen Anne Beer Hall's sister location on the East Side
in Kirkland. Incredible food, local craft beers and fresh cocktails
with friends. Come check out Moss Bay Hall in the
(00:21):
heart of downtown Kirkland. Now with Lancerline.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Here's SAFTI and did.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Great to have Lanzerline come back with us today, Take two,
Take one. We had a little you know, phone issues yesterday,
but he was gracious enough to come back today. Before
we chat with him, I want to remind you testimonials
coming up the next segment at four to forty five.
Who is your guy? Hawks fans? Who is your guy?
At eighteen? Who is your guy that you would celebrate
(00:48):
with family and friends if they selected at eighteen? Give
us a text at four nine, four to five to one,
Who and why do you want this player? And we'll
have Hugh breakdown your responses at four forty five.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Land Zerline NFL dot com. How are you man? How
thanks for joining us again today?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah, we would love to I mean, we had some
questions I wanted to answer, and I was like, man,
I can't believe this is a work, and so I
had to come back.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
You know, let's let's talk about the depth of this
draft for a second. I mean, we spend so much
time talking about the first round because that's what's sexy,
that's what everybody you know. We can only add US mortals,
unlike you. US mortals can only handle like twenty five
to thirty two names, right, we can't handle like two
three hundred like you do. Is is this draft deeper
(01:35):
with starters down the line than most drafts or is
it about the same?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I think it is at certain positions. That question is
in a general sense, no, it's not deeper. But in
a specific sense, yeah, there are positions where it's a
lot deeper. Defensive tackle, running back, defensive end, slash edge.
So I think there's some good like quarterback. I don't
think there's a lot of long term starters at quarterback,
but I think what there are good long time backups
(02:06):
that can be low end starters that may drift between
back and forth between you know, starting and backup. I
think that's kind of what this this draft is actually,
when it's all said and done, is gonna end up
having a lot of But what you have is it's
not top heavy, so it's not great.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Once you get past the first, you know, three.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Picks, it gets a little You get good players, but
I think they are players would be frankly a.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
Lot of them.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Most of them will be, you know, somewhere between twelve
and twenty six in most drafts, and some of those
guys are going to go inside the first fourteen picks.
So you know, Ashton Genty is a special player, but
he's a running back, so you know, in most drafts
he's not gonna go inside the top maybe six seven picks.
(02:52):
This year, it's different because Genty is one of the
best players in the draft. So you know, I don't
think cam Ward is one of the best players in
the draft. I think it's Genty, Ashton gent Abdol Carter,
and Travis Hunter. But quarterbacks get pushed up and cam
Wart's obviously the best quarterback.
Speaker 6 (03:09):
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I've been doing this
for twenty seven years and uh and even Travis Hunter.
Now he's the most special for the obvious reasons, the versatility,
but he's not the best corner in the last ten
or even five years. He's not the best wide receiver
in the last ten or even five years. It's just
the combination. He's the best in this draft. But but
(03:31):
but uh, and yeah in lanceerline with us, Uh, I'm
want to go back to what you said at the
onset of our segment here. You said you had a
lot of questions that you were eager to answer. Uh,
let's throw it to you. What what are you what?
What questions were you eager to answer that you didn't
give an opportunity to a couple of days.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Well, so he yesterday they asked me about I think
the question was about Jaln Milroe. And with Jaln Milroe
because and Dicky, I think you had talked about maybe
broaching the subject of the Hawks taking him at eighteen
or considering him at eighteen, right, am I?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Right?
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Is that? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
For me, it's more second round. I would be shocked
if they took it second or eighteen.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
But then and we had Greg Bell from the TNT
today and his mock he put him at the He
put put him to the Hawks in the in the
second round.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I think eighteen would be a stretch.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
But I am totally tantalized by jailing Milrose athleticism.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
There's no question.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Yeah, and you should be.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
He is you know, he's this is a guy who
is you know, his athletic profile is wide receiver running
back with the size of a week side linebacker. I mean,
it's it's a really tantalizing profile, to be sure.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
The problem is that's right.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And yesterday you asked if there'd ever be a time
where I thought that he could be a functional enough
passing right coach. I just I don't think, Yeah, could
he be coached there? I just don't think so. I
think and you could answer this better than I could.
But I really, in all the years of watching football,
and of course, you know, over the last fifteen or so,
really studying the position closely, I just I think accuracy,
(05:03):
there's a natural accuracy.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
That a player has or doesn't have.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
It's it's not dissimilar to the way hitters have hand
eye coordination, the way you know golfers. There's a certain
thing that is going to be natural about golfing, about
shooting a basketball. I think certain things are more correctable
than others. Not I've really dug in on on can
accuracy be corrected because Jake Locker was a quarterback. You
I'm sure you remember it, and it just never got
(05:28):
better for Jake Locker. I mean he sprayed it around
the Senior Bowl and never got any better. And everyone
just said, well, you can coach it up his feet.
You just get his feet right. You know, it's just
needs footwork. Well, I think accuracy is a very natural,
innate thing that you either have or you don't have.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
But one thing with Josh Allen is Josh Allen's taught us.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
And now you have to say, is Josh Allen the
outlier or how often can this you know, can this
be duplicated where the.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Accuracy really improves?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
And I saw a feature on Josh Allen where he
was talking about what he did to get better in
the way that you know, he and his coach and
his trainer really worked on certain things in terms of
taking his thought, his throwing thought kind of like a
swing thought in golf. He had to start thinking differently
when he was the release in the football in terms
of where the release point was. It was a little
(06:17):
earlier in the throw as opposed to later in the throw.
Speaker 7 (06:20):
And you know these are things that I was fascinated
because this is stuff, you know that's not my you know,
it's not my wheelhouse to understand how to coach up
a quarterback.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
So it was really interesting to hear this, and so
it gave me hope that some other quarterbacks who had
those issues could get better. I think you can get
better with the right technique, with the right footwork when
everything's right. Here's one of the problems, and this is
across the board. My dad was an l coach, so
he always talked about the fact that he was getting
players into the league more and more that were not
(06:54):
that were less and less technically sound because college football
it's just about play fast.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
And a lot less technique is being taught.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Now you have less practice time in the NFL than
you ever have, so it's harder to teach technique. And
I think the problem you have is a lot of
quarterbacks really want to emulate the homes they want to emulate.
At some point, Aaron Rodgers is what a lot of
them emulated. And so you've got quarterbacks trying to make
these trick shots, these all platform throws, and it's not
and bad habits develop when you do that. And so
(07:23):
I think the problem is a lot of these guys
who come in with some accuracy issues, they're fundamentally flawed
in terms of their ability to deliver the ball in
a consistent, repeatable process. And with Jalen Milroe, you know
what I would worry about is he's not innately accurate.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
I think that's obvious when you.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Watch the tape on him, and I'm not sure that
it can get a lot better. And so when you're
not accurate, what you've got to do? I just look
at I think of a baseball analogy. If you're going
to strike out a lot, you better hit home runs.
If you hit home runs, then you can strike out more.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Well, when Lamar Jackson came into the league, I kind
of adopted that man. Trusted.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
You know, he's not the most accurate guy, but he
can hit a lot of home runs, so you have
to be okay with that. And over the time he's
actually gotten better. He has developed a little bit better acturacy.
He said, he's a better passer, he's a better quarterback.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
From the pocket.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
So could that happen with Milroe, Yeah, could happen with him.
But I think Lamar is still a little bit of
an outlier. I think Josh Allen is a little bit
of an outlier. And I think what Milroe is teams
are going to bet on, Hey, we either have a
superstar dual threat quarterback who may be heavier run than pass,
or we have a guy that we might be able
to switch positions with, because I've already talked to teams
(08:33):
who said, look, if it didn't work out, we've got
an absolutely elite explosive athlete, we'll figure something out.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
I mean they said that about Cordell Stewart. He was
slash right, But how many how many times have we
seen a guy you know, get drafted as a quarterback,
try him at quarterback for a year or two, and
then convert him to another position you mentioned will linebacker. Yeah,
his frame, he's about as a robust of a of
(09:04):
an athlete. Like if you said, okay, I'm gonna take uh,
you know, twenty two I can clone this guy twenty
two time, you know, one one player twenty two ways, right,
and then let him play all eleven positions on offense
and all eleven positions on defense. Like he might be
the guy you'd clone to do that, right, But uh,
(09:25):
you know. But but I think to your point about accuracy,
I think most of the time for me and studying it,
it's it's not a mechanical thing.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
It's more of like.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
How do you how do you process leading a dynamic
For example, you throw that three cut, the okie route,
the semi that twelve yard speed out on the sixth step.
If you look at when quarterbacks when they break their
hand and what they're the receivers going down the field
and he still has to break out and you've got
to anticipate where that spot is. I think it's more
(09:59):
of a an issue of do you hit the spot
as opposed to mechanics. But I said, like ninety ninety
five percent of the time, there's a five or ten
percent of the time where there's actual mechanical deficiency that
kinetic chain. And I think in Milro's case, he's one
of those five ten percent guys that actually has not
(10:19):
just the vectoring issue that I talked about, Hey, can
you lead a guy in dynamic accuracy, but actually mechanical issues.
Can you actually hit the spot that your brain tells
you to hit?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, and you know the timing, you can always you
can cheat it by saying, okay, on the fifth step,
we're cutting it loose like you can. You know, there's
some things you can do. But to me, it's a
lot like a basketball, like a point guard. I feel
like you can always take things from other sports, and
that's why I will reference certain things. Magic Johnson had,
amazed Johnstock incredible spatial awareness. Steve Nash had it, so
(10:55):
the ability to recognize space and to understand how to
deliver pass In terms of with as you as you
mentioned the victory that that is something that I don't
think you can learn. I think you have it or
you don't have it. There's certain guys that have it.
There are certain guys that don't have it, and the
ones that don't have it have to just kind of
struggle through and they'll be a little bit inconsistent. Ones
(11:17):
like Joe Burrow that have it are really are really
special because he didn't have a big army, didn't have
special physical traits, but Joe Montpana had it. I mean,
it's it's it's that Tom Brady has it. It's an
ability to deliver throws. And when you have that, it
opens the field up to you. It opens up you
don't have to you're not as limited because you don't
(11:39):
have the velocity to throw it into tight windows. It
just it makes you such a so much better quarterback.
And not every quarterback is.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Going to be like that. Obviously, Russell Wilson to me,
I loved Russe.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
I thought Russell Wilson was wildly underrated for most of
his career. I didn't think he got the I didn't
think he got the credit he deserved. And and you know,
Russ hung on to it too long. A play extender,
He's gonna take some sacks, but he was a he
was a playmaker. And my dad won a super Bowl
with the Steelers because Ben Roethlisberger, who drove him crazy
as no lighte coach because.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
He took so many sacks.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
You know, he also been taken, but he giveth because
he also could make plays to want a super Bowl
for you. So, you know, I think the quarterback conversation
is an interesting one because there's so many different types.
There's so many flavors quarterback, and sometime we get to
caught up and just wanting to put somebody in one
particular type of style where everyone wants to get the
(12:31):
next to this guy or the next that guy.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
But there's different ways to win.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
And Jared Goff, there's nothing sexy about Jared Goff. But
Jared Goff had a great year this year and the
Lions went deep and had they not had the injuries,
that might have been a super Bowl winning team, but
ultimately they were just two injured and there's nothing you
know Jared Goffhis was at one point a reclamation project
after he left the Rams, and it looked.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Like his time with the trout was going to come
to it end shortly.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
And now all of a sudden, you know that accuracy
and throwing wide receivers over and his field for the
game as a game manager, now you see you you're
gonna win at a high level with that type of
quarterback as well.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Well.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Zeroline joining us from an NFL dot Com this weekly conversation.
When you when you talked about the less practice time
and a name came to my mind immediately, and that's
Travis Hunter. I mean, how elite can Travis Hunter be
at anything? If he's playing two positions with limited practice time.
You got an offensive coordinator and wide receiver coach arguing
(13:28):
with a defensive coordinator and a cornerbacks coach for his time.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
I had a conversation with it with a defensive minded
head coach last night and I asked him, what do
you how do you view him? And he viewed Travis
as a wide receiver first, corner second.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
I said, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
I thought you would have been the other way and
he said, well, he said, I think that it's harder
to learn wide receiver as a as an NFL rookie.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
And which which surprised me.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
I thought more technique time would be needed as a
corner and because you know, you're playing backwards so much,
and he said, now, he said, I think I think
it would be harder for Travis if he doesn't spend
more practice time as a wide receiver and then you
roll them over to the other side for a few
snaps every game when you need them to be a
third cornerback. He thought that that would be the better play.
(14:22):
But when I ask him, because I asked him about
playing both ways, he goes, I don't see how he
could because you can't to your point, he can't spend
that many time.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
He can't spend that time in meetings.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Like there's meeting times are separate by positions and the
practice reps you would have him gas. You know NFL
teams where the you know, it looks like the sports
brought is the it's the catapult system, I'm sure you're seeing.
And a lot of times they monitor how many steps
you take, and they monitor heart rate, they monitor everything,
and so what they're monitoring is when you have had
(14:53):
enough in practice, if you're going too hard. They'll back
guys down in practice because they don't. They understand that
league better. They understand wearing down to the physical wear
and tear on the player. They've done studies on it,
so they understand it better. When to pull guys debt
back in practice, all the reps that would be necessary
for him, they'd have to shut him down halfway through practice.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
They can't let him continue to go. It's not it's
not just the seventeen games.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
It's the consistent work and practice in the meetings and
the extra time after.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
It would be a tremendous toll.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And for a rookie, it's hard.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Enough to learn one position. So I think people think
this is a video game. Sometimes it's not. It's difficult, you.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Know, I've given a lot of thought to Travis Hunter.
I've changed a little bit of my opinion. A month ago,
I said I think that he's slightly better defensive player
than offense, so I would start him at defense. I've
watched a lot more tape since then. I've switched that
I think he's slightly better receiver prospect than he is
a corner prospect. But I got a friend who used
(15:57):
to be an NFL head coach. I texted him ran
this by uh because it seems so simple to me
what I would do, and I would ask this prior
to the draft. I would just say, Travis, first year,
you're either you're gonna play three downs on one side
of the ball, and you're gonna play third down on
the other side of the ball, and then we're gonna
(16:17):
go from there, because because obviously right and and and
what do you prefer? Yeah, and whether he says offense
or defense, I probably want him anyways. But what he
wants to do, he's gonna get. He that plan is
going to be the one that excites him the most.
(16:37):
So if he if he says offense, he's gonna play
three downs on offense, and then he's gonna be a
third down guy on on the on the sub packages
when it's you know, when in obvious passing situations and
he can go in and he can do that. That's
the way I would handle it. What's what's your response to, uh,
to that idea?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Well, I mean I love it. The problem is the
kids on on record is saying I need it. If
you don't plan on playing me both ways, don't even
draft me. I don't even want to play for you.
I mean I thought, I thought, first of all, that's
not all. Yeah, let's all plays, all plays both sides.
And I just thought, man, drafts, don't don't tell people
not to draft you. Don't tell people you might as
(17:19):
well that you might as well quit if you can't
play both ways. Like, don't make comments like that for
a draft. You just you don't need to do that.
But he just, you know, he's ultra competitive. He loves ball,
he's everything about it. You gotta be okay with the competitor,
because that's what it is, not being selfish. He's the
ultimate competitor. He's done it in college, he's.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Done it at a high level. But he doesn't know.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
What he doesn't know, and what he's about to run
into is a tremendous. It's the step up in competition
from the Big twelve to the NFL's is about.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
To be substantial.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
The physicality that the physicality is about to be substantial. Uh,
the speed, you know, he's going to have to become
a much better out runner. He he's not great. I
don't think he's getting from point A to point B.
He just uses natural ability against press, but NFL press
is going to really slow him up because he's not
real polished in that regards. Route run is not real polished.
(18:11):
Once the ball goes up, elite ball skills are incredible.
So I think getting from point A to point B,
he's gonna become really good at that once he gets work.
And I think that's where the technique stuff comes in,
is he really needs to learn that and he really
needs to be able to focus because he's not going
to get to the level he wants to be at
it either position. If he's bouncing back and forth between both,
(18:31):
it's just but he doesn't know that yet. He's played
twenty six hundred snaps the last two years of Colorado.
He has no idea what that toll is going to
be once he starts trying to do that kind of
stuff on the NFL in the NFL, but it's going
to be an interesting battle because he's going to be
steadfast and wanting to do this and coaches aren't going
to tell him no.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
No team is going to tell him no right up
the bat.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
But eventually a hard conversation is going to have to
be had, and frankly, I'm curious to see how goes.
Mike Brable made it sound like, Hey, we like guys
that can handle as much as possible. We're gonna put
as much on their plate.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
As they can handle, you know.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Rabel of course famously took some reps you know, around
the goal line. The defensive player caught touchdown passes. Bill
Belichick ran, Troy Brown, played wide receiver, Ram played some cornerback.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
Julian Edelman did that a little bit. So I don't
think he's a he's a you know.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
If Hunter falls the flour and the Patriots take him,
I don't think he's a verse to giving him reps
both sides, but I doubt seriously that he can hold
up if he tries it in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
We really thank you for coming on once again today,
and hopefully we'll get a chance to chat with you
next week at some point during Draft week.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Thanks man, Absolutely, we'll see if we can figure it out.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Thanks guys, you've been serline brought to you by Queen
Anne Beer Hall, Moss Bay Hall. We'll be at Queen
Anne Beer Hall on Wednesday, All Jackson, I can't wait
for the big Pillsers smash Burger's.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Smash Burger's.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Can I have a pillsner in one hand and the
card in the other announcing the picks?
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Can we do that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, you should, Okay,
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com