March 13, 2025 • 19 mins
NFL Draft expert Lance Zierlein from the NFL Network joins Dave Softy Mahler and Dick Fain to talk about the Seahawks major off-season changes, his pre-draft prospect grades, Penn State’s Tyler Warren, tight ends, and interior offensive linemen for Seattle.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
As part of our exclusive in depth coverage of the NFL.
Your Home for the twelfth Man proudly presents NFL Network
Draft Analyst Landserline brought to you by Moss Bay Hall,
Queen Anne beer Hall's sister location on the East Side
in Kirkland. Incredible food, local craft beers and fresh cocktails
with friends. Come check out Moss Bay Hall in the
(00:22):
heart of downtown Kirkland now with Lanserline.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Here's Safti and.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Dick Big thanks to our friend Juice out there Queen
Anne beer Hall, Best game Day atmosphere right outside Climate
Pledge Arena and then Moss Bay Hall with a third
opening this summer next to lumen Field on Occidental waterwall action,
massive hideaff screen, stadium sound and the food, by the way,
is tremendous. So whether it's Queen Anne, whether it's Kirkland,
(00:48):
or whether it's Occidental.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Later on this year, check out the Hall Baby.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Queen Anne beer Hall and Queen Ann and Moss Bay
Hall and Kirkland and a third opening up this summer
next to luman on Oxide.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Daniel joining us right now on the radio show. He's back.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
We met his gigantic financial demands are people caved baby
and met his expectations. We did for Lance what John
Schneider would not do for DK Metcalf and Gino Smith
and lanz Zerline is back with us from NFL dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
How are you pal?
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Good?
Speaker 5 (01:19):
I know where I'm going when I'm in town, I'm
going to that. I'm going to the hall. You just
talk whatever you just talked about, I'm going there.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Hey, look, if you like good food, smash burgers, things
like that, will take care of you, big boy. So
you just let us know when you're in town and
you are in man, you are in no doubt.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yep, that's that's gonna be me. Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Hey, let's uh, let's start before we talk some draft.
You got your mock draft two point zero that you
put out about ten days ago on dot com. We'll
shout about that in a second. But hey, man, is
a guy that covers the NFL. What do you give
us your thoughts and all the change happening up here
in Seattle? Geno's out, DK's out, Locket's out, Sam Darnel's in.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Haven't that.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Well?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
You know we're seeing in that division. San Francisco's hitting reset.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
You can go so far with it.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
There's always an iteration of a team in any sport
where you can go so far with this offt You've
been around a long time.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You remember the old Mariners.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
Team that that you had that with a Rod and
Randy Johnson and King Griffy Jr.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
And you went to Jay Buner, You went to a certain.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Spot and then you had to you know, eventually you
start dumping the pieces and you try to hit reset
for the next iteration.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
I feel like that's what the Seahawks are doing right now.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
You knew Lockett had to get cut cap cut DK metcalf.
I think, you know, there's some limitations in terms of
routes he can run, and and and and when you
have all these cover two shells that you're seeing all
over the place now kind of limits exposive places, which
really had an impact on a lot of quarterbacks and
receivers last year from a statistical standpoint. And so you know,
(02:53):
I wasn't completely surprised. I'd heard whispers that that might
end up happening, that you know, he might get put
on the on the market there.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
But there's a lot of there's a lot of there's
a lot of work to be done for John Schneider.
I mean, let's face it, the offensive line has.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Been an issue for a long time, the interior needs
a lot of work. You now need one or two
wide receivers, and and honestly, the quarterback situation, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
You upgrade a whole lot going from Geno Smith to
uh uh to Sam Donald.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
I mean, Sam had a great season last last year
for the first you know, sixteen or so games, and
then his last two are terrible, and so it really
makes you a little nervous based on his background. So
you know, I'd like to believe that. I think Sam
donald coming back is a great comeback story. I want to.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Believe that that he has.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Matured as a quarterback and become the guy that we
saw most of last year. But he did that with
Justin Jefferson, with with Jordan Addison, with Jalen Naylor. He
did it with some pretty good wide receivers. So I
think it behooves John Schneider to really, you know, put
an emphasis on the wide receiver position in this draft.
Within the first three to four rounds.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
Lance, how many prospects do you have this year with
actual first round grades.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I've got twenty three.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Is that more or less are about the same.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
As usual, little less, little less?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, okay?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And is that just because of the coaching going on
in college football? Is that because of the systems being
run in college football? Is there a reason for that
or is that just, hey, the way the ball bounced
this year.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yeah, I think it's just you know, I think it's
just the way it goes.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
There have been Now there's some interesting things that have
happened over the last two or three years that are
are kind of changing the way I'm looking at the draft.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
And how many draft prospects I write up first is nil.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
We had fewer players come out as early entries this
year than we've seen in years, right, And that's because
they can make money in college football, so they're not
rushing to you know, get to the pros unless they're
a top twenty twenty five pick usually.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
The second thing is there's a lot of COVID.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
So when we had COVID, if you were in college
football during the COVID years, you got an additional you know,
year of football. And then many of these players also
took a red shirt year.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
At some point.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
So I can't tell you how many guys I've written
up who are sixty year seniors.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
It used to be.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Unheard of unless you had a medical red shirt to
go along with a regular red shirt, and those you
had to petition for and it wasn't always granted. Now
I'm writing a sixty year seniors who are twenty four
years old, and so you've got more of these COVID
guys coming in.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
You've got fewer.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Early entries coming in, so it's a little bit watered
down now the top end.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
Does that mean though, that the middle rounds are actually
filled with guys that have a better chance of making
the league than say, five ten years ago.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
There you go bingo, And that's where a lot of
teams feel like, you know, picks twenty through sixty have
a lot more value this year because it's just and
sometimes it's just the natural flow of the draft.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
And I think that's part of it too, is just certain.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Years, you know, it just coincides with certain players, So
certain drafts are better than other drafts, and that's what
is going on here. But this one is deep at
certain positions and it does give you some depth in
rounds two through FOURD and frankly, you know, I wouldn't
want to be in a top ten. I don't like
the top ten much. It's not a good top ten.
But once you get to about sixteen, and we get
(06:33):
beyond sixteen, the value starts to even out for what
these players really are.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Well land zerline nfl dot Com with us every Thursday
through the draft courtesy of Moss Bay Hall Queen Anne
Beer Hall. Their menus always packed with Seattle's best smash burger,
wings and the best local craft beers to fuel every
single play. Now, your original mock that came out in February,
had the Hawks taken Luther Burden the third, the wide
receiver from Missouri. Your latest mock, as I'm also going
(07:00):
wide receiver, taking Matthew Golden from Texas. But I gotta
be honest with you, I'm intrigued by the guy you
got going seventeenth, right ahead of the Seahawks. I'd love
to have Tyler Warren playing here in Seattle. Maybe it's
because I'm scarred by him shoving it up our tailpipe
and Happy Valley against the Huskies back in November. But
I mean, let's just start with Tyler Warren because this guy, man,
(07:22):
I was really impressed watching him play in person.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Pell Yeah, Tyler Warren. You know I'm gonna I'm gonna
invoke a name from the past. He's on my draft profile.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
He is my this players, my comp And if you
watched him in college, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Jeremy Shacky from Miami.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Oh yeah, Jeremy Shaky had this swagger, this confidence, this
playmaking nobility.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Now that's my comp coming out.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Now I'm not it's not a comp because of Shaky
had a lot of injuries in the pros. But I
get that same vibe from Warren. He's more confident than cocky.
Jeremy Shockey was very cocky, but Warren is very confident.
They say, from a football standpoint, elite football character, elite
(08:07):
personal character. He comes in the room and he makes
your football team better from a character standpoint. But what
I really like is that he finds ways to make plays.
And there's a lot of people who over the years
have said, man, how is Travis Kelsey doing this, or
how is Gronk doing this? Right, Gronk doesn't look fast,
and yet he's always open. Guys had a hard time
covering him. Travis Kelcey always seems.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
To get open.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Tyler Warren is one of those guys that I don't
think he's a great tester. I don't think he's some
elite athlete. I think he's maybe a slightly above average athlete.
But he's a good football player. He knows how to
get open, he's great at making catches, and he has
a variety of ways at beating you in the fact
that Penn State would snap the ball direct snap to
him to go get first downs on third downs and
(08:51):
fourth downs just tells you the type of you know,
pee wee league football. Like when you're little league baseball,
the best player is always at shortstop or center field
or they Well, Tyler Warren is one of those guys that, like,
just put it in his hands. He's our best player.
Just give him the ball. I don't care what we
do it. We just need to play. Let Tyler Warren
go do it. And I don't blame you for being
(09:11):
excited about him if he makes it to eighteen. I mean, honestly,
he has a higher football grade, a higher draft grade
for me than any of these wide receivers.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (09:20):
Well, I know a lot of people would think though,
Lance said that tight end is a quote unquote luxury
position for a team that's like about ready to win
the Super Bowl and just needs that last piece. Do
you feel like it is anymore or is just tight
end kind of ubiquitous and it's as important as anything else.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
This as important as anything else.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
And you know, if Antonio Gates didn't tell you that,
if Tony Gonzalez didn't tell you that, if Travis Kelcey
isn't telling you that, these are I remember when Antonio
Gates was with Philip Rivers. They really didn't have a
lot of wide receivers, but Gates was able to function
as the primary wide receiver. Tony Gonzalez gave that same opportunity,
you know, to Kansas City and then to Atlanta. I
(09:57):
feel like the same thing is true with Travis Kelcey.
You didn't have to have Travis. You didn't have to
have Tyreek Hill to win a Super Bowl because you
had Travis Kelsey, who was your primary pass catcher. Tight
Ends for me, if you have a special one. To me,
they're just pass catchers. Forget the name tight end. How
many weapons do you have pass catching weapons? You need
(10:18):
to have three. If he's one of them, great, then
you just need to have two wide receivers and the
third wide receiver who cares. And the other thing about
tight ends is I'll say this, there are other tight
ends who can be mismatch tight ends. You know, they
can be very fast and cause problems with how you're going.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
To defend them.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Or Colston Lovelin, who is you know a tight end
for Michigan who I think is up there with Tyler
Warren and he could be in you know, he could
be in consideration by John Snyder if you target tight end.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
He's one that can block. He can block a little
bit for Michigan, and.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
He's a little bit faster than Tyler Warrens. He's got
the ability to stretch the feeling more consistently. So I
think tight ends now have become real mismatch player because.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
It changes and offers. You know, you got to think
about how you're going to card and then for others more,
you know, it's tough to guard. They're just average.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
If they can really block well, they really create opportunities
for you to go to different personnel groupings.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
And that's what it's about. Keeping the defense on their meals.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yep, all our lenzerline again with us he'll join us
every Thursday at five twenty courtesy of our friends at
Moss Bay Hall. Queen Anne Beer Hall got a brand
new spot opening up later this summer on Occidental near
lumen Field. It's going to be phenomenal. The TVs. The foods,
best smash burger in Seattle, best wings in Seattle, best
local craft beers as well. In Seattle, you're going to
(11:39):
a cracking game, going to a concert, whatever event at
Climate Pledge Arena, Queen Anne Beer Hall is.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Absolutely the place you got to get to.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
And when that new spot opens up on Occidental for
Seahawk games, Sounder games, Mariner games as well. But Lance,
it's funny because we've been sitting here for the last
twelve minutes and we haven't even mentioned the offensive line
for the Seahawks, which is the biggest issue by far
on this football team. They got a brand new OC
and Clint Kubiak, who runs that famous outside zone running scheme.
(12:07):
Knowing what Clint Kubiak wants to do offensively and what
he'll need from his offensive line, are there pieces in
this draft that can come in and make this line
better right away?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
There are?
Speaker 5 (12:21):
But I would say this too and I know he's
Gary Kubiak's son, and Gary Kubak was a staunch outside
zone guy.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
More and more teams now are getting.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Away from steady outside zone like it needs to be.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
You need to have gap scheme, You need.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
To have offensive linemen that are capable of being multiple
and so one of the things I found a little
tricky now is finding, you know, typical zone.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
He used to be easy. His own scheme. Guards you
knew who they were, had the gap scheme, guards, you
knew who they were.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Well, now you've got to really have a blend of
it because of how defenses can stop outside zone. Now
they can really do certain things to make it tough.
And I love the outside zone from.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Guards to point.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
You know, Tyler Booker is not going to He's a
tough guy, but he's not sure outside zone guy. And
that would be a first The first round pick pick.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Now Ownivan Jackson from Ohio State.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
I think he can be an outside zone type of guard.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I wouldn't think of an eighteen, But Josh Spyder.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Likes the trade back, so that might be a trade
back target somewhere later in the first round. I don't
know if you want to go behind the Houston Texans
because they need guard too, So I'm not sure you
want to go.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Behind twenty five. There is a really.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Impressive one from William and Marry named Charles Grant. And
Charles Grant is a pure outside zone scheme guard in
the NFL. He was a tackle of William and Mary.
He needs to get a little bit bigger, But every
time I watched him, I would think, man, this guy
would have been great under Garry Kugak.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
And now we're talking about Clay Kubak. It's the same thing.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
He may need a year to really beat up and
get to where he needs to be physically from a
from a body standpoint, but he is all getting to
the angles. He needs to get guys cut off. But
this is not gonna be a one year fixed Seahawks fans.
This is going to take some time. And I would
tell you that on the on the offensive line to
(14:11):
get this running game the way Clint Kubiak wants it,
it's gonna take a little time to get the right
pieces up front.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Well, you mentioned a few names there.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
How many plug and play interior offensive linemen are there
in this draft? And and about where would you have
to draft those guys.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Well, you gotta draft him in the first three rounds.
There's not a ton you know, there's not a ton.
I think Wyatt Milam from West Virginia could be one,
but he's not. You know, he could do some zone
scheme stuff, but he might be in consideration. Tate Ratledge
not a great athlete, more of a tough guy. He's
going to be a plug and play probably a third
(14:51):
round guard. But beyond that, you know, in terms of
my rankings here, I've got the other two. I mentioned
Tyler Booker from Alabama, who's more a inline power player,
and then Donovan Jackson who can run out so he
can run plenty of outside zone.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
I think Donovan Jackson is the guy if you.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Wanted a first round guard that you're really targeting to
watch it because he is a plug and play player
and they do a lot of stretch, you know, a
lot of wide stretch stuff out of their their shotgun looks.
So Donovan Jackson, more so than Tyler Booker, is somebody
that Seahawk fans should look for.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, Donovan Jackson from Ohio State, no doubt won the
championship with him.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I think we all know his name for sure, But hey.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Lance, before you go, we got we got seven weeks
before the draft, so lots of time to go over
all these names. But it kind of feels like there's
a lightning rod that's starting to develop around Shador Sanders.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
People either love the guy or they hate the guy.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Ryan Clark was on TV the other day saying that
he takes criticism because he's African American. I got Hugh
Millen coming on our show saying his sacked tape is
among the worst he's ever seen.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Where do you stand on Shdor Sanders?
Speaker 5 (15:56):
Well, I think what Ryan said is irresponsible, honestly. I mean, listen,
I talk to guys around the league, black, white, decision maker, scouts,
whatever the case.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
People in the league who do this for a living.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
They know it has nothing to do with any of that.
I mean, that's more of a media construct. That's more
of a fan construct. The guys behind the scenes in
the league. We'll tell you it's a couple of things.
Number One, he's more of a second round type talent.
He's not really a first round talent. But he's going
to get pushed up because he's a quarterback, not because
he's should do or Sanders because he's a quarterback and
(16:30):
quarterbacks get pushed up, and he'll probably go on the
first I've had a second round great on him on
my tape after I watched him, and I kind of
liked him, But I liked him enough to be a
six point three, which is an above average starter.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I think that's how he projects.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
That's not a player I would take for me personally,
not in the top ten picks, and i'd really, you know,
it'd be later in the first round that I would
take him with Shud or Sanders. The braggadocio and the
cockiness and all that. NFL teams don't care about that.
What they do care about, though, is are you gonna
be on pot you know? Are you going to immediately
have your own podcast? Are you going to be a
(17:07):
team first guy? Are you going to be the guy
that through your offensive line under the bus in the
offseason where you're streaming video games. That's no good for
a quarterback. I don't care who you are. I don't
care if you're black, white, tall, short zones. You know,
a triple option quarterback or an air raid quarterback. You
can't lay out your teammates publicly, you're the leader. The
second concern is that Deon Sanders is his dad, and
(17:30):
you know, it's one thing to have a little bar
bass situation, but Dion is Dion is a dude. You know,
Dion is a guy who's always going to be around.
He's got big opinions. And there are a lot of
teams that are worried that when you draft Shador, you're
drafting Dion. And if Dion isn't happy with you know,
the wide receiving core, if he's not happy with the
play call, and if he's not happy with the head coach,
(17:52):
then the coaching staff's gonna get it, the front office
is going to get it, and maybe eventually ownership will
get it. That's a real concern for NFL teams I
talked to. But he's an accurate quarterback, he's poised. There's
a lot of things to like about Shador Sanders. But
I thought, well, Ryan Clark brought up that really has
nothing to do with what's going on in league circles.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
At all Land Zerline, NFL dot Com every Thursday courtesy
at Queen Anne Beer Hall, Moss Bay Hall and Kirkland
great stuff, and we're talking a week, man, appreciate it.
Actually we will not talk in a week because we
have college basketball. So we'll get with your people and
figure out a way to get you on next week.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
All right, buddy, Yeah, you know where to reach my
people at my phone.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Number, Done Lanzerline NFL dot com. He'll be with us
typically every Thursday, but next Thursday we got some college hoops,
so we'll have to kind of redistribute that, maybe get
him on Wednesday with you and Hughey. Good stuff from
Lance and interesting about the d On stuff he's saying
that NFL teams have said that's a concern because we've
talked about that here on this show, that if you're
(18:48):
drafting Shador, you're drafting d On Sanders as well. And
I don't know, we talked about this on the air
the other day. If he's sitting there at number eight,
he didn't he drops far enough? Would you want the
Hawks to take him to Sam Darnold? Now being on
the Ross kind of say, well, we'd like a quarterback,
but maybe not that high. If John Schneider has always
thought that Schdor was going to be a star in
(19:08):
the NFL, doesn't he still have to take him even
though he's got Sam Darnolds. Your thoughts on that Next
on ninety three three kJ RFM,
As part of our exclusive in depth coverage of the NFL.
Your Home for the twelfth Man proudly presents NFL Network
Draft Analyst Landserline brought to you by Moss Bay Hall,
Queen Anne beer Hall's sister location on the East Side
in Kirkland. Incredible food, local craft beers and fresh cocktails
with friends. Come check out Moss Bay Hall in the
(00:22):
heart of downtown Kirkland now with Lanserline.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Here's Safti and.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Dick Big thanks to our friend Juice out there Queen
Anne beer Hall, Best game Day atmosphere right outside Climate
Pledge Arena and then Moss Bay Hall with a third
opening this summer next to lumen Field on Occidental waterwall action,
massive hideaff screen, stadium sound and the food, by the way,
is tremendous. So whether it's Queen Anne, whether it's Kirkland,
(00:48):
or whether it's Occidental.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Later on this year, check out the Hall Baby.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Queen Anne beer Hall and Queen Ann and Moss Bay
Hall and Kirkland and a third opening up this summer
next to luman on Oxide.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Daniel joining us right now on the radio show. He's back.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
We met his gigantic financial demands are people caved baby
and met his expectations. We did for Lance what John
Schneider would not do for DK Metcalf and Gino Smith
and lanz Zerline is back with us from NFL dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
How are you pal?
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Good?
Speaker 5 (01:19):
I know where I'm going when I'm in town, I'm
going to that. I'm going to the hall. You just
talk whatever you just talked about, I'm going there.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Hey, look, if you like good food, smash burgers, things
like that, will take care of you, big boy. So
you just let us know when you're in town and
you are in man, you are in no doubt.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yep, that's that's gonna be me. Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Hey, let's uh, let's start before we talk some draft.
You got your mock draft two point zero that you
put out about ten days ago on dot com. We'll
shout about that in a second. But hey, man, is
a guy that covers the NFL. What do you give
us your thoughts and all the change happening up here
in Seattle? Geno's out, DK's out, Locket's out, Sam Darnel's in.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Haven't that.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Well?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
You know we're seeing in that division. San Francisco's hitting reset.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
You can go so far with it.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
There's always an iteration of a team in any sport
where you can go so far with this offt You've
been around a long time.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You remember the old Mariners.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
Team that that you had that with a Rod and
Randy Johnson and King Griffy Jr.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
And you went to Jay Buner, You went to a certain.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Spot and then you had to you know, eventually you
start dumping the pieces and you try to hit reset
for the next iteration.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
I feel like that's what the Seahawks are doing right now.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
You knew Lockett had to get cut cap cut DK metcalf.
I think, you know, there's some limitations in terms of
routes he can run, and and and and when you
have all these cover two shells that you're seeing all
over the place now kind of limits exposive places, which
really had an impact on a lot of quarterbacks and
receivers last year from a statistical standpoint. And so you know,
(02:53):
I wasn't completely surprised. I'd heard whispers that that might
end up happening, that you know, he might get put
on the on the market there.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
But there's a lot of there's a lot of there's
a lot of work to be done for John Schneider.
I mean, let's face it, the offensive line has.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Been an issue for a long time, the interior needs
a lot of work. You now need one or two
wide receivers, and and honestly, the quarterback situation, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
You upgrade a whole lot going from Geno Smith to
uh uh to Sam Donald.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
I mean, Sam had a great season last last year
for the first you know, sixteen or so games, and
then his last two are terrible, and so it really
makes you a little nervous based on his background. So
you know, I'd like to believe that. I think Sam
donald coming back is a great comeback story. I want to.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Believe that that he has.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Matured as a quarterback and become the guy that we
saw most of last year. But he did that with
Justin Jefferson, with with Jordan Addison, with Jalen Naylor. He
did it with some pretty good wide receivers. So I
think it behooves John Schneider to really, you know, put
an emphasis on the wide receiver position in this draft.
Within the first three to four rounds.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
Lance, how many prospects do you have this year with
actual first round grades.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I've got twenty three.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Is that more or less are about the same.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
As usual, little less, little less?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, okay?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And is that just because of the coaching going on
in college football? Is that because of the systems being
run in college football? Is there a reason for that
or is that just, hey, the way the ball bounced
this year.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yeah, I think it's just you know, I think it's
just the way it goes.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
There have been Now there's some interesting things that have
happened over the last two or three years that are
are kind of changing the way I'm looking at the draft.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
And how many draft prospects I write up first is nil.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
We had fewer players come out as early entries this
year than we've seen in years, right, And that's because
they can make money in college football, so they're not
rushing to you know, get to the pros unless they're
a top twenty twenty five pick usually.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
The second thing is there's a lot of COVID.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
So when we had COVID, if you were in college
football during the COVID years, you got an additional you know,
year of football. And then many of these players also
took a red shirt year.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
At some point.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
So I can't tell you how many guys I've written
up who are sixty year seniors.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
It used to be.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Unheard of unless you had a medical red shirt to
go along with a regular red shirt, and those you
had to petition for and it wasn't always granted. Now
I'm writing a sixty year seniors who are twenty four
years old, and so you've got more of these COVID
guys coming in.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
You've got fewer.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Early entries coming in, so it's a little bit watered
down now the top end.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
Does that mean though, that the middle rounds are actually
filled with guys that have a better chance of making
the league than say, five ten years ago.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
There you go bingo, And that's where a lot of
teams feel like, you know, picks twenty through sixty have
a lot more value this year because it's just and
sometimes it's just the natural flow of the draft.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
And I think that's part of it too, is just certain.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Years, you know, it just coincides with certain players, So
certain drafts are better than other drafts, and that's what
is going on here. But this one is deep at
certain positions and it does give you some depth in
rounds two through FOURD and frankly, you know, I wouldn't
want to be in a top ten. I don't like
the top ten much. It's not a good top ten.
But once you get to about sixteen, and we get
(06:33):
beyond sixteen, the value starts to even out for what
these players really are.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Well land zerline nfl dot Com with us every Thursday
through the draft courtesy of Moss Bay Hall Queen Anne
Beer Hall. Their menus always packed with Seattle's best smash burger,
wings and the best local craft beers to fuel every
single play. Now, your original mock that came out in February,
had the Hawks taken Luther Burden the third, the wide
receiver from Missouri. Your latest mock, as I'm also going
(07:00):
wide receiver, taking Matthew Golden from Texas. But I gotta
be honest with you, I'm intrigued by the guy you
got going seventeenth, right ahead of the Seahawks. I'd love
to have Tyler Warren playing here in Seattle. Maybe it's
because I'm scarred by him shoving it up our tailpipe
and Happy Valley against the Huskies back in November. But
I mean, let's just start with Tyler Warren because this guy, man,
(07:22):
I was really impressed watching him play in person.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Pell Yeah, Tyler Warren. You know I'm gonna I'm gonna
invoke a name from the past. He's on my draft profile.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
He is my this players, my comp And if you
watched him in college, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Jeremy Shacky from Miami.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Oh yeah, Jeremy Shaky had this swagger, this confidence, this
playmaking nobility.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Now that's my comp coming out.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Now I'm not it's not a comp because of Shaky
had a lot of injuries in the pros. But I
get that same vibe from Warren. He's more confident than cocky.
Jeremy Shockey was very cocky, but Warren is very confident.
They say, from a football standpoint, elite football character, elite
(08:07):
personal character. He comes in the room and he makes
your football team better from a character standpoint. But what
I really like is that he finds ways to make plays.
And there's a lot of people who over the years
have said, man, how is Travis Kelsey doing this, or
how is Gronk doing this? Right, Gronk doesn't look fast,
and yet he's always open. Guys had a hard time
covering him. Travis Kelcey always seems.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
To get open.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Tyler Warren is one of those guys that I don't
think he's a great tester. I don't think he's some
elite athlete. I think he's maybe a slightly above average athlete.
But he's a good football player. He knows how to
get open, he's great at making catches, and he has
a variety of ways at beating you in the fact
that Penn State would snap the ball direct snap to
him to go get first downs on third downs and
(08:51):
fourth downs just tells you the type of you know,
pee wee league football. Like when you're little league baseball,
the best player is always at shortstop or center field
or they Well, Tyler Warren is one of those guys that, like,
just put it in his hands. He's our best player.
Just give him the ball. I don't care what we
do it. We just need to play. Let Tyler Warren
go do it. And I don't blame you for being
(09:11):
excited about him if he makes it to eighteen. I mean, honestly,
he has a higher football grade, a higher draft grade
for me than any of these wide receivers.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (09:20):
Well, I know a lot of people would think though,
Lance said that tight end is a quote unquote luxury
position for a team that's like about ready to win
the Super Bowl and just needs that last piece. Do
you feel like it is anymore or is just tight
end kind of ubiquitous and it's as important as anything else.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
This as important as anything else.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
And you know, if Antonio Gates didn't tell you that,
if Tony Gonzalez didn't tell you that, if Travis Kelcey
isn't telling you that, these are I remember when Antonio
Gates was with Philip Rivers. They really didn't have a
lot of wide receivers, but Gates was able to function
as the primary wide receiver. Tony Gonzalez gave that same opportunity,
you know, to Kansas City and then to Atlanta. I
(09:57):
feel like the same thing is true with Travis Kelcey.
You didn't have to have Travis. You didn't have to
have Tyreek Hill to win a Super Bowl because you
had Travis Kelsey, who was your primary pass catcher. Tight
Ends for me, if you have a special one. To me,
they're just pass catchers. Forget the name tight end. How
many weapons do you have pass catching weapons? You need
(10:18):
to have three. If he's one of them, great, then
you just need to have two wide receivers and the
third wide receiver who cares. And the other thing about
tight ends is I'll say this, there are other tight
ends who can be mismatch tight ends. You know, they
can be very fast and cause problems with how you're going.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
To defend them.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Or Colston Lovelin, who is you know a tight end
for Michigan who I think is up there with Tyler
Warren and he could be in you know, he could
be in consideration by John Snyder if you target tight end.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
He's one that can block. He can block a little
bit for Michigan, and.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
He's a little bit faster than Tyler Warrens. He's got
the ability to stretch the feeling more consistently. So I
think tight ends now have become real mismatch player because.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
It changes and offers. You know, you got to think
about how you're going to card and then for others more,
you know, it's tough to guard. They're just average.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
If they can really block well, they really create opportunities
for you to go to different personnel groupings.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
And that's what it's about. Keeping the defense on their meals.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yep, all our lenzerline again with us he'll join us
every Thursday at five twenty courtesy of our friends at
Moss Bay Hall. Queen Anne Beer Hall got a brand
new spot opening up later this summer on Occidental near
lumen Field. It's going to be phenomenal. The TVs. The foods,
best smash burger in Seattle, best wings in Seattle, best
local craft beers as well. In Seattle, you're going to
(11:39):
a cracking game, going to a concert, whatever event at
Climate Pledge Arena, Queen Anne Beer Hall is.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Absolutely the place you got to get to.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
And when that new spot opens up on Occidental for
Seahawk games, Sounder games, Mariner games as well. But Lance,
it's funny because we've been sitting here for the last
twelve minutes and we haven't even mentioned the offensive line
for the Seahawks, which is the biggest issue by far
on this football team. They got a brand new OC
and Clint Kubiak, who runs that famous outside zone running scheme.
(12:07):
Knowing what Clint Kubiak wants to do offensively and what
he'll need from his offensive line, are there pieces in
this draft that can come in and make this line
better right away?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
There are?
Speaker 5 (12:21):
But I would say this too and I know he's
Gary Kubiak's son, and Gary Kubak was a staunch outside
zone guy.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
More and more teams now are getting.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Away from steady outside zone like it needs to be.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
You need to have gap scheme, You need.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
To have offensive linemen that are capable of being multiple
and so one of the things I found a little
tricky now is finding, you know, typical zone.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
He used to be easy. His own scheme. Guards you
knew who they were, had the gap scheme, guards, you
knew who they were.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Well, now you've got to really have a blend of
it because of how defenses can stop outside zone. Now
they can really do certain things to make it tough.
And I love the outside zone from.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Guards to point.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
You know, Tyler Booker is not going to He's a
tough guy, but he's not sure outside zone guy. And
that would be a first The first round pick pick.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Now Ownivan Jackson from Ohio State.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
I think he can be an outside zone type of guard.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I wouldn't think of an eighteen, But Josh Spyder.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Likes the trade back, so that might be a trade
back target somewhere later in the first round. I don't
know if you want to go behind the Houston Texans
because they need guard too, So I'm not sure you
want to go.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Behind twenty five. There is a really.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Impressive one from William and Marry named Charles Grant. And
Charles Grant is a pure outside zone scheme guard in
the NFL. He was a tackle of William and Mary.
He needs to get a little bit bigger, But every
time I watched him, I would think, man, this guy
would have been great under Garry Kugak.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
And now we're talking about Clay Kubak. It's the same thing.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
He may need a year to really beat up and
get to where he needs to be physically from a
from a body standpoint, but he is all getting to
the angles. He needs to get guys cut off. But
this is not gonna be a one year fixed Seahawks fans.
This is going to take some time. And I would
tell you that on the on the offensive line to
(14:11):
get this running game the way Clint Kubiak wants it,
it's gonna take a little time to get the right
pieces up front.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Well, you mentioned a few names there.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
How many plug and play interior offensive linemen are there
in this draft? And and about where would you have
to draft those guys.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Well, you gotta draft him in the first three rounds.
There's not a ton you know, there's not a ton.
I think Wyatt Milam from West Virginia could be one,
but he's not. You know, he could do some zone
scheme stuff, but he might be in consideration. Tate Ratledge
not a great athlete, more of a tough guy. He's
going to be a plug and play probably a third
(14:51):
round guard. But beyond that, you know, in terms of
my rankings here, I've got the other two. I mentioned
Tyler Booker from Alabama, who's more a inline power player,
and then Donovan Jackson who can run out so he
can run plenty of outside zone.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
I think Donovan Jackson is the guy if you.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Wanted a first round guard that you're really targeting to
watch it because he is a plug and play player
and they do a lot of stretch, you know, a
lot of wide stretch stuff out of their their shotgun looks.
So Donovan Jackson, more so than Tyler Booker, is somebody
that Seahawk fans should look for.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, Donovan Jackson from Ohio State, no doubt won the
championship with him.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I think we all know his name for sure, But hey.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Lance, before you go, we got we got seven weeks
before the draft, so lots of time to go over
all these names. But it kind of feels like there's
a lightning rod that's starting to develop around Shador Sanders.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
People either love the guy or they hate the guy.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Ryan Clark was on TV the other day saying that
he takes criticism because he's African American. I got Hugh
Millen coming on our show saying his sacked tape is
among the worst he's ever seen.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Where do you stand on Shdor Sanders?
Speaker 5 (15:56):
Well, I think what Ryan said is irresponsible, honestly. I mean, listen,
I talk to guys around the league, black, white, decision maker, scouts,
whatever the case.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
People in the league who do this for a living.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
They know it has nothing to do with any of that.
I mean, that's more of a media construct. That's more
of a fan construct. The guys behind the scenes in
the league. We'll tell you it's a couple of things.
Number One, he's more of a second round type talent.
He's not really a first round talent. But he's going
to get pushed up because he's a quarterback, not because
he's should do or Sanders because he's a quarterback and
(16:30):
quarterbacks get pushed up, and he'll probably go on the
first I've had a second round great on him on
my tape after I watched him, and I kind of
liked him, But I liked him enough to be a
six point three, which is an above average starter.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I think that's how he projects.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
That's not a player I would take for me personally,
not in the top ten picks, and i'd really, you know,
it'd be later in the first round that I would
take him with Shud or Sanders. The braggadocio and the
cockiness and all that. NFL teams don't care about that.
What they do care about, though, is are you gonna
be on pot you know? Are you going to immediately
have your own podcast? Are you going to be a
(17:07):
team first guy? Are you going to be the guy
that through your offensive line under the bus in the
offseason where you're streaming video games. That's no good for
a quarterback. I don't care who you are. I don't
care if you're black, white, tall, short zones. You know,
a triple option quarterback or an air raid quarterback. You
can't lay out your teammates publicly, you're the leader. The
second concern is that Deon Sanders is his dad, and
(17:30):
you know, it's one thing to have a little bar
bass situation, but Dion is Dion is a dude. You know,
Dion is a guy who's always going to be around.
He's got big opinions. And there are a lot of
teams that are worried that when you draft Shador, you're
drafting Dion. And if Dion isn't happy with you know,
the wide receiving core, if he's not happy with the
play call, and if he's not happy with the head coach,
(17:52):
then the coaching staff's gonna get it, the front office
is going to get it, and maybe eventually ownership will
get it. That's a real concern for NFL teams I
talked to. But he's an accurate quarterback, he's poised. There's
a lot of things to like about Shador Sanders. But
I thought, well, Ryan Clark brought up that really has
nothing to do with what's going on in league circles.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
At all Land Zerline, NFL dot Com every Thursday courtesy
at Queen Anne Beer Hall, Moss Bay Hall and Kirkland
great stuff, and we're talking a week, man, appreciate it.
Actually we will not talk in a week because we
have college basketball. So we'll get with your people and
figure out a way to get you on next week.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
All right, buddy, Yeah, you know where to reach my
people at my phone.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Number, Done Lanzerline NFL dot com. He'll be with us
typically every Thursday, but next Thursday we got some college hoops,
so we'll have to kind of redistribute that, maybe get
him on Wednesday with you and Hughey. Good stuff from
Lance and interesting about the d On stuff he's saying
that NFL teams have said that's a concern because we've
talked about that here on this show, that if you're
(18:48):
drafting Shador, you're drafting d On Sanders as well. And
I don't know, we talked about this on the air
the other day. If he's sitting there at number eight,
he didn't he drops far enough? Would you want the
Hawks to take him to Sam Darnold? Now being on
the Ross kind of say, well, we'd like a quarterback,
but maybe not that high. If John Schneider has always
thought that Schdor was going to be a star in
(19:08):
the NFL, doesn't he still have to take him even
though he's got Sam Darnolds. Your thoughts on that Next
on ninety three three kJ RFM,
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