May 21, 2025 • 19 mins
Legendary writer Larry Stone joins Dick Fain and Hugh Millen to talk about the Mariners win today in Chicago and the hitting improvement this year, Ben Williamson’s rise, Cal Raleigh in the MVP discussion, the WAR debate, and the smoothness of Bryan Woo.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for our weekly conversation with legendary sports writer
Larry Stone, brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery, Bigger,
better and fresher since nineteen seventy one, with eight fugit
Sound locations from Marysville to Lacey and everywhere in between.
There's a Ram there you now with Softy and Dick.
Here's Larry Stone.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Dad's Day and Grad's Day right around the corner. Celebrate
your loved ones at the RAM with their gift card
promotion between now and June fifteenth. For every fifty dollars
gift card you purchase, you get a ten dollars gift
card free. Hopefully Larry Stone is using those gift cards
well at the RAM.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
How are you, man?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I'm doing great, I am You think them well?
Speaker 5 (00:42):
Well?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
And often awesome, very very good.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, it's great to have you, you know, watching that
Mariner game today. Really, the last thirty six hours of
Mariner baseball has just been kind of bizarre. You know
that crazy one nothing chilly, rainy, is it even going
to get played? Game yesterday almost kind of a throw
it out game, and then today Larry and I got
the emotional swings First of all, I'll tell you what
(01:06):
I was thinking during this game. At three nothing, literally
five minutes into the game, I was like, well that's over.
I mean, will the White Sox even score three runs
in order to overcome this three nothing deficit? Well, they did,
and it didn't take them along either. And then you
get the home run from Cal you get a Tavaris
home run later on. That was just the emotional swings
(01:27):
for a game in May were a little bit too
much for me today.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yeah, it was something. Who would think that the Marrors
would get a better battle from the Chicago White Sox
than the San Diego They did, but those games were tougher.
Those three games were tougher than the three in San
Diego where they thoroughly dominated. But I thought it was
a gutty win today to come back. You just don't
want to go into the Houston having lotched the series
(01:53):
to the White Sox.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Right. The White Socks actually, unlike last year, they actually
have some promise now.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
I think they have a pretty good pitching staff, which
is why the series was as even as it was.
That the guy that started today was pitching almost as
well as anyone in the league. But teams like the
White Sox find a way to lose, and that's what
happened today. Leody Tavares. I thought maybe before today, I
thought a topic of our conversation was how long they
(02:21):
were going to go with him, But he probably bought
himself a little more time with that big home run today.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, indeed, and you brought up the Padre series, so
let's go there. What impressed you about what you saw
in San Diego.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Well, the pitching dominance of a of a really good
lineup that maybe the best lineup in the National League,
and they just throttled them. They shut them down. And
not only did they do that, but they did it
was their's six seven starters, Logan Evanson and Emerson Hancock
starting two of the games and pitching really well. The
bullpen was was fabulous. That the hitting was timely, but
(02:58):
to me, it was the pitching. Just a lineup that
has Takis.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
And Merrill and you.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Know, Machado and all those guys arise to hold them
one run in each game was just spectacular and very unexpected.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Larry, I'm just looking at the lineup of aces that
the Mariners have either handed a loss to or at
least won the game that that pitcher was pitching. And
I'm looking at the top fifteen in baseball, and let's
see Max Fried's number one in era, Nathan Elvaldi's number
six in era. Croche is number nine, Shane Smith today
(03:36):
is number ten, Michael King the other day is number fourteen.
I mean, they have been just giant killers offensively, particularly
on the road. What do you make of what you're
seeing from this offense, particularly against aces of staffs which
have usually, let's face it, just shoved it up the
mariner's tailpipe the last five years.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Yeah, And I mean they also won a game started
by Eric Scoba, who might be the best fiture in baseball.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Yeah, it's a testament to I think.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Uh, there's they're sort of their new hitting outlook, putting
more balls in play, getting on base more. The Hitger
cites their influence I think is real. Uh, they're just
not used to count on twelve strikeouts the game, night
after night after night, and they're just they're just not
doing that anymore.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
And when you.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Put the ball in play, good things happen. And uh
and and they got some real legitimate bats in their lineup. Now,
talk the top five. Uh, it gets a.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Little weak when you get beyond those. But you know,
cal Rawley's having as you know, he's having a superstar year. Uh,
JP Crawford's tremendous bounce back year. Polanco started off so well,
Julio's coming back strong lately for the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
And a Rose Arena. Uh, you know that that's a
that's a really good lineup at the top of it.
So yeah, it's it's the it's the journeymen that are
giving him trouble. Like the guy who started yesterday was
his name Houser. Yeah, uh, you know, making his first
start of the year, just completely shut him down. But
(05:14):
when they go against, like you said, the aces, they
seem to they seem to step up to another level.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
You've seen a lot of young guys come and go.
Larry Stone, Ben Williamson, curious your take on the twenty
four year old.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Is this guy somebody you think can be implanted at
third base for a long period time? A Blowers type
of run?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Or is it wait, wait and see mode? Just kind
of give us your thoughts on on the youngster.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Williamson, Uh, I think I'm leaning more towards wait and
see mode. Hugh, I've been That's not to say I've
not been impressed with him. I think he's a He's
a major league defensive third basement above average, There's no
question about that. And uh, that's what they needed out
there at this point with you know, Polanco just wasn't
(06:03):
getting it done defensively. Uh, he's really stabilized that position.
You know, I want to see how he's going to
develop with it with the bat. You know, he's he's
hidden in the two forty to two fifty range, which
is all right, but with with no no pop, right,
with very little pop. Uh, you know, his ops is
under six hundred.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Will that develop? Will he will he become more of
a Kyle Siegert type guy? Maybe, uh, you know, develop
a little more power. I think it could happen, but
I think for now, I think I think he's They're
they're fine with him at third base. You know, it's
it's usually an offensive position, it's usually a slugger's position,
(06:49):
and they're really not getting that from from him. So
I mean there is I think there is potential to
upgrade there, but for now, I think he's fine.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Ler, Are you an MVP voter or have you been
an MVP voter.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
I've been an MVP voter many times, but now that
I'm no longer eligible, I'm not covering the team anymore, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean the reason I ask is because I understand
that Aaron Judge is running away with the MVP award.
My god, he's hitting four h three with a twelve
fifty three ops. I mean, and his war, his war
is almost a full point higher than any other hitter
in baseball. So I get that. But beyond Aaron Judge,
to me, because cal Ray plays catcher and all these
(07:29):
other guys that are between two and a half and
three war don't play catcher, is there an argument for
voting cal Rawley second in the MVP voting, at least
through the first third of the season.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Yeah. I think it's probably it's him or Bobby Witt Junior.
I mean, you're right, they're both. They all are taking a.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Back seat to Judge. I mean, if the vote were now,
he'd be unanimous, and deservedly so. But no, I agree
with what you said. You've got arguably the best defensive
catcher in baseball. He won the Platinum Glove and not
only that, but he's one of the best offensive players
in baseball, regardless of position. I don't see how that combination,
(08:12):
plus leading a very good staff defensively, you know, or
pitch calling and all that stuff. I think if I
had a vote'd probably vote him second.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Right now, Well, you think about he's number one. Dick
mentioned the stat war cal Rawley's at two point three.
You know, so he's first, JP, Crawford second. The gap
between first and second rally to Crawford is greater than
the gap between second and six, which is on Polanco's
(08:46):
tied for six with Dylan Moore. So I'm curious, you know,
I hear this talk about, Hey, at some point rally,
I mean, if he hits forty five bombs or even
pushing fifty like he's been on a pace to at
some point there's talk that maybe he'd be a d
h and despite his greatness as catcher, the longevity, what
(09:09):
have you. Where are you kind of projecting down the
line with Raleigh? Is that is that a legitimate topic
or is that you push that obviously way down the road.
But can you see a day where he just says, hey,
he's no longer the Mariner catcher.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
He's just a d h I could see that day
or maybe even first base or something like that, but
I don't think that's in the near future. I think
he's just too valuable back there. He's so durable. I mean,
he's catching more than probably any catcher in baseball behind
the you know, getting behind the plate, and I don't
see any signs of that showing up. But it does.
You're right, it takes a toll. You know, catchers are
(09:46):
like the running backs of Major League Baseball the peak
of their career because of how much they get beat
up and how tough it is to just crouch pitch
after pitch and take You see the sole balls that
Cal takes on a nightly basis, off his mask, off
his knee, and you know everywhere that just it's going
(10:07):
to take a toll. But right now, I don't see
any signs of the of the UH slowing down. What's
interesting is they've got a blue chip catching prospect down
in the minor leagues and Harry Ford. I don't know
if you checked the numbers lately, but he's he's on
fire right now. Uh, he's close to three hundred. He's
(10:27):
on basing over four hundred, which he's done throughout his career. Uh,
they're gonna have to make a decision on him real
quick because you just don't want to waste him down
in the minor leagues. Honestly, I see him as being
the centerpiece of a of a potential blockbuster, uh trade
deadline deal or off season deal, just because there's the
(10:48):
redundancy there. There's really not a spot for an everyday catcher.
With a new contract that Cal signed for for three
or four more years, even with the wear and tear,
I think he's going to be a regular catcher at
least for three or four Well, you.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Know why he's tearing it up.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
And Jackson can attest to this softy and I talked
to him in person two weeks ago at the Rainiers
game before the game. You just just just go back
and look two weeks from this Friday at what his
ops has been since then. I mean, that is that
is the reason Larry Stone joining us brought to you
by the Ram Restaurant in Brewery. Larry's, as long as
you're on the topic of war, we were talking with Cal.
I mean baseball teams primarily have their top two three
(11:26):
four guys all offensive players. They play every day, so
that makes sense that their war would be higher. Then
maybe an ace would slot in there as you know,
as maybe the fourth or fifth best war guy the team.
You know who the second best war guy on this
baseball team is. It's a dude that has only pitched
twenty one and two thirds innings, but he is sixteen
of sixteen and he has not blown a save, and
(11:48):
he has not given up a run. And Andres Munos, Larry,
I don't care what War says. I guarantee you that
if Andres Munos had not pitched at all this year,
the Mariners would be more than two games worse than
they are right now.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Yeah, he's been super valuable. He hasn't given up an
earned run yet, he's almost become automatic. Like today's game,
they were down a run or upper run, and he
gave up a leadoff hit. But I never really felt
that there was any danger him giving up that lead that,
particularly against the White Sox. But yeah, you know, war's
(12:27):
tough with relief pitchers. And what's interesting is if you
look at Fangrass War, you know there's two different war
calculations the fan Grass and there's Baseball Reference, and he's
much better off with Baseball Reference than he is with Fangrass,
where he's way way down there. I'm not sure what
the different what they're looking at differently, but you'd think
that a stat like that would be pretty consistent between
(12:48):
the two groups calculating it, but sometimes it's not. But
regardless of war and what his number is, I think
anyone watching this team knows that a lockdown closer is
hugely important because we've seen in past years what has
happened when they don't have one of those, right, And
(13:09):
I kind of like, you know, with Scott Servis, he
went more for using his best reliever in high leverage situations,
not necessarily in the ninth inning. I like just having
the closer close the game as a better strategy.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
I think s particlarly when you've got another another guy
who can do the leverage work, like a Matt Brash
now that he's back, and you know, was supposed to
be Santos, but it doesn't look like we're going to
see him for a while.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
But I think I think mentally, when a guy like
Munios knows he's working the ninth. I think I think it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Helps Larry Stone with us and and Larry in Week
one this year, dick was out and uh I kind
of engaged Softy and uhh, yeah, we can get another
drop on that one. But Softy and Jackson, and the
topic that I brought up was that there's for all
(14:06):
of us, there's a handful of athletes that, yes, being
good is important, but there's a certain aesthetic smoothness and
almost artistic beauty to their craft. For me, Ernie Els,
I had once put a screensaver up of Ernie ELS's swing,
and of course Braddy Couples, and then of course there's
junior swing for me. Eric Dickerson running of football is
(14:30):
just almost poet, you know, it's just beauty in motion.
Damn Marino throwing a football. Where I'm going with that
and where I went then was there is a smoothness
to this cat want Brian Wu you know, like Marianna
Rivera like in terms of his like everything looks so
buttery and yet he can still touch you know, well
(14:51):
past mid nineties, upper nineties, and there's just something so
graceful and beautiful about his pitching motion. Here we talked
about war he's at one point eight, just behind Mouni
is at one point nine. Just talk about Brian wu
and and who's been the ace if you look at
the numbers, but also maybe touch on on what you
(15:11):
think mechanically or or or or maybe other pictures that
have caught you where you just say, man, there's there's
something pretty about the way he throws a baseball.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, no, I'm with you, Hugh. I love pictures like
that where it doesn't even look like they're throwing. And
then you then you look at the gun and it's
ninety seven.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Yeah, and then you know, then there's other guys like
Robbie Ray who have to put everything that they have
into it, and grunt heizer.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Like her seizer looks so choppy, you know, right.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Scout's called that max effort guys,
and he's the he's the he's a min effort guy,
you know, the opposite of a max effort guy. Uh,
you know, I think that's really practical.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I'm gonna interrupt you. I'm sorry. I meant Clayton Kershaw,
I said hers seizer. My brain was thinking Clayton Kersheye.
I'm sorry. I had to it's very to interrupt you.
But but Clayton Kershaw, you know that that funky that
that is like the ugliest, right, and so at any
rate continue, I'm sorry, but but yeah, I had to
make that distinction.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, yeah, I was wondering why you threw her that was.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
That that was a big That's why I had to
correct myself. No, Millan Claytons the other dodger.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, but I think that's what attracted the Mariners
to him when he had a you know, mediocre college
career at cal Poly. I think it was, uh, they
just saw that motion, they saw that delivery, they saw
the stuff and felt that they could refine it and
uh uh they've done that, but a lot of it
(16:44):
is just inherent. And then they smoothed it, smoothed it
out a little. He got healthy, He added a couple
of pitches. But yeah, it's rare to see a picture
who was as smooth as that as that, you know,
I think Madison Bumgarner was kind of like that in
his heyday. James Paxton with the Mariners was a real
(17:04):
smooth guy who you looked up and it was ninety
eight and I put him in you know, he's in
that category.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
As well, Larry, before we let you go, you know,
you get George Kirby back tomorrow. Logan will be coming back,
hopefully very very soon, Bryce Miller, very very soon. Does
this baseball team have a fourteen and six, fifteen and
five twenty game run in them where they can just
really put this division not away, but put a lot
(17:32):
of distance between themselves, or do you still think this
offense is just gonna sputter, particularly at home, and be
in two inconsistent and we're just gonna have to hope
for a whole lot of eleven to nine twenty game stretches.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
I think they do have that potential. I think they've
had a streak like that this year. A lot a
lot will depend on how Kirby comes back. You know,
just because he's coming back doesn't mean he's going to
come back and be George Kirby. Uh so if but
if he is, and and they get Logan Gilbert back
(18:07):
as well, which is also no guarantee that he's going
to come back anytime soon and be Logan Gilbert. But
if they can, I think, uh, that really bodes well
for them, uh distancing themselves from the division, because I
think the rest of the division is kind of mediocre.
I think it's there for the for the taking for sure,
even more than we thought it was.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
The Astros are having a lot of a lot of
hit pitching injuries. The Rangers for some reason can't hit
even with Brett Boone as they're they're hitting coach. Uh
so uh yeah, I think the potential is definitely there.
The offense has kind of cooled down a little from
that peak in April, so I still think they need
(18:51):
to go out and get a bat or two at
the trade deadline. You know, you still have some real
dead holds and they all show. But despite what he
did today, you know, right field with the ris is
still a problem area. You know, first base has been ye,
I think it can really be upgraded, and even even
you know, second or third base could be upgraded as well.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Larry, always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
All right, Thanks, guys, you've bet Larry.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Stone brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery.
Don't forget their triple play special is going on.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
As a drink, an appetizer, and an entree for as
low as ten ninety nine their patios are open, so
outdoor dining is on through the summer. Come join me
and turn a triple play at the RAM, all right,
We're gonna kind of turn the page. We have got
a we've got a battle going on between two media members,
(19:43):
national media members, and we've got some audio from both
of those national ESPN media members. We're gonna play and
kind of dig into it a little bit over the
next few minutes on ninety three point three KJRFM
It's time for our weekly conversation with legendary sports writer
Larry Stone, brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery, Bigger,
better and fresher since nineteen seventy one, with eight fugit
Sound locations from Marysville to Lacey and everywhere in between.
There's a Ram there you now with Softy and Dick.
Here's Larry Stone.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Dad's Day and Grad's Day right around the corner. Celebrate
your loved ones at the RAM with their gift card
promotion between now and June fifteenth. For every fifty dollars
gift card you purchase, you get a ten dollars gift
card free. Hopefully Larry Stone is using those gift cards
well at the RAM.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
How are you, man?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I'm doing great, I am You think them well?
Speaker 5 (00:42):
Well?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
And often awesome, very very good.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, it's great to have you, you know, watching that
Mariner game today. Really, the last thirty six hours of
Mariner baseball has just been kind of bizarre. You know
that crazy one nothing chilly, rainy, is it even going
to get played? Game yesterday almost kind of a throw
it out game, and then today Larry and I got
the emotional swings First of all, I'll tell you what
(01:06):
I was thinking during this game. At three nothing, literally
five minutes into the game, I was like, well that's over.
I mean, will the White Sox even score three runs
in order to overcome this three nothing deficit? Well, they did,
and it didn't take them along either. And then you
get the home run from Cal you get a Tavaris
home run later on. That was just the emotional swings
(01:27):
for a game in May were a little bit too
much for me today.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yeah, it was something. Who would think that the Marrors
would get a better battle from the Chicago White Sox
than the San Diego They did, but those games were tougher.
Those three games were tougher than the three in San
Diego where they thoroughly dominated. But I thought it was
a gutty win today to come back. You just don't
want to go into the Houston having lotched the series
(01:53):
to the White Sox.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Right. The White Socks actually, unlike last year, they actually
have some promise now.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
I think they have a pretty good pitching staff, which
is why the series was as even as it was.
That the guy that started today was pitching almost as
well as anyone in the league. But teams like the
White Sox find a way to lose, and that's what
happened today. Leody Tavares. I thought maybe before today, I
thought a topic of our conversation was how long they
(02:21):
were going to go with him, But he probably bought
himself a little more time with that big home run today.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, indeed, and you brought up the Padre series, so
let's go there. What impressed you about what you saw
in San Diego.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Well, the pitching dominance of a of a really good
lineup that maybe the best lineup in the National League,
and they just throttled them. They shut them down. And
not only did they do that, but they did it
was their's six seven starters, Logan Evanson and Emerson Hancock
starting two of the games and pitching really well. The
bullpen was was fabulous. That the hitting was timely, but
(02:58):
to me, it was the pitching. Just a lineup that
has Takis.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
And Merrill and you.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Know, Machado and all those guys arise to hold them
one run in each game was just spectacular and very unexpected.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Larry, I'm just looking at the lineup of aces that
the Mariners have either handed a loss to or at
least won the game that that pitcher was pitching. And
I'm looking at the top fifteen in baseball, and let's
see Max Fried's number one in era, Nathan Elvaldi's number
six in era. Croche is number nine, Shane Smith today
(03:36):
is number ten, Michael King the other day is number fourteen.
I mean, they have been just giant killers offensively, particularly
on the road. What do you make of what you're
seeing from this offense, particularly against aces of staffs which
have usually, let's face it, just shoved it up the
mariner's tailpipe the last five years.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Yeah, And I mean they also won a game started
by Eric Scoba, who might be the best fiture in baseball.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Yeah, it's a testament to I think.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Uh, there's they're sort of their new hitting outlook, putting
more balls in play, getting on base more. The Hitger
cites their influence I think is real. Uh, they're just
not used to count on twelve strikeouts the game, night
after night after night, and they're just they're just not
doing that anymore.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
And when you.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Put the ball in play, good things happen. And uh
and and they got some real legitimate bats in their lineup. Now,
talk the top five. Uh, it gets a.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Little weak when you get beyond those. But you know,
cal Rawley's having as you know, he's having a superstar year. Uh,
JP Crawford's tremendous bounce back year. Polanco started off so well,
Julio's coming back strong lately for the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
And a Rose Arena. Uh, you know that that's a
that's a really good lineup at the top of it.
So yeah, it's it's the it's the journeymen that are
giving him trouble. Like the guy who started yesterday was
his name Houser. Yeah, uh, you know, making his first
start of the year, just completely shut him down. But
(05:14):
when they go against, like you said, the aces, they
seem to they seem to step up to another level.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
You've seen a lot of young guys come and go.
Larry Stone, Ben Williamson, curious your take on the twenty
four year old.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Is this guy somebody you think can be implanted at
third base for a long period time? A Blowers type
of run?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Or is it wait, wait and see mode? Just kind
of give us your thoughts on on the youngster.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Williamson, Uh, I think I'm leaning more towards wait and
see mode. Hugh, I've been That's not to say I've
not been impressed with him. I think he's a He's
a major league defensive third basement above average, There's no
question about that. And uh, that's what they needed out
there at this point with you know, Polanco just wasn't
(06:03):
getting it done defensively. Uh, he's really stabilized that position.
You know, I want to see how he's going to
develop with it with the bat. You know, he's he's
hidden in the two forty to two fifty range, which
is all right, but with with no no pop, right,
with very little pop. Uh, you know, his ops is
under six hundred.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Will that develop? Will he will he become more of
a Kyle Siegert type guy? Maybe, uh, you know, develop
a little more power. I think it could happen, but
I think for now, I think I think he's They're
they're fine with him at third base. You know, it's
it's usually an offensive position, it's usually a slugger's position,
(06:49):
and they're really not getting that from from him. So
I mean there is I think there is potential to
upgrade there, but for now, I think he's fine.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Ler, Are you an MVP voter or have you been
an MVP voter.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
I've been an MVP voter many times, but now that
I'm no longer eligible, I'm not covering the team anymore, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean the reason I ask is because I understand
that Aaron Judge is running away with the MVP award.
My god, he's hitting four h three with a twelve
fifty three ops. I mean, and his war, his war
is almost a full point higher than any other hitter
in baseball. So I get that. But beyond Aaron Judge,
to me, because cal Ray plays catcher and all these
(07:29):
other guys that are between two and a half and
three war don't play catcher, is there an argument for
voting cal Rawley second in the MVP voting, at least
through the first third of the season.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Yeah. I think it's probably it's him or Bobby Witt Junior.
I mean, you're right, they're both. They all are taking a.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Back seat to Judge. I mean, if the vote were now,
he'd be unanimous, and deservedly so. But no, I agree
with what you said. You've got arguably the best defensive
catcher in baseball. He won the Platinum Glove and not
only that, but he's one of the best offensive players
in baseball, regardless of position. I don't see how that combination,
(08:12):
plus leading a very good staff defensively, you know, or
pitch calling and all that stuff. I think if I
had a vote'd probably vote him second.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Right now, Well, you think about he's number one. Dick
mentioned the stat war cal Rawley's at two point three.
You know, so he's first, JP, Crawford second. The gap
between first and second rally to Crawford is greater than
the gap between second and six, which is on Polanco's
(08:46):
tied for six with Dylan Moore. So I'm curious, you know,
I hear this talk about, Hey, at some point rally,
I mean, if he hits forty five bombs or even
pushing fifty like he's been on a pace to at
some point there's talk that maybe he'd be a d
h and despite his greatness as catcher, the longevity, what
(09:09):
have you. Where are you kind of projecting down the
line with Raleigh? Is that is that a legitimate topic
or is that you push that obviously way down the road.
But can you see a day where he just says, hey,
he's no longer the Mariner catcher.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
He's just a d h I could see that day
or maybe even first base or something like that, but
I don't think that's in the near future. I think
he's just too valuable back there. He's so durable. I mean,
he's catching more than probably any catcher in baseball behind
the you know, getting behind the plate, and I don't
see any signs of that showing up. But it does.
You're right, it takes a toll. You know, catchers are
(09:46):
like the running backs of Major League Baseball the peak
of their career because of how much they get beat
up and how tough it is to just crouch pitch
after pitch and take You see the sole balls that
Cal takes on a nightly basis, off his mask, off
his knee, and you know everywhere that just it's going
(10:07):
to take a toll. But right now, I don't see
any signs of the of the UH slowing down. What's
interesting is they've got a blue chip catching prospect down
in the minor leagues and Harry Ford. I don't know
if you checked the numbers lately, but he's he's on
fire right now. Uh, he's close to three hundred. He's
(10:27):
on basing over four hundred, which he's done throughout his career. Uh,
they're gonna have to make a decision on him real
quick because you just don't want to waste him down
in the minor leagues. Honestly, I see him as being
the centerpiece of a of a potential blockbuster, uh trade
deadline deal or off season deal, just because there's the
(10:48):
redundancy there. There's really not a spot for an everyday catcher.
With a new contract that Cal signed for for three
or four more years, even with the wear and tear,
I think he's going to be a regular catcher at
least for three or four Well, you.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Know why he's tearing it up.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
And Jackson can attest to this softy and I talked
to him in person two weeks ago at the Rainiers
game before the game. You just just just go back
and look two weeks from this Friday at what his
ops has been since then. I mean, that is that
is the reason Larry Stone joining us brought to you
by the Ram Restaurant in Brewery. Larry's, as long as
you're on the topic of war, we were talking with Cal.
I mean baseball teams primarily have their top two three
(11:26):
four guys all offensive players. They play every day, so
that makes sense that their war would be higher. Then
maybe an ace would slot in there as you know,
as maybe the fourth or fifth best war guy the team.
You know who the second best war guy on this
baseball team is. It's a dude that has only pitched
twenty one and two thirds innings, but he is sixteen
of sixteen and he has not blown a save, and
(11:48):
he has not given up a run. And Andres Munos, Larry,
I don't care what War says. I guarantee you that
if Andres Munos had not pitched at all this year,
the Mariners would be more than two games worse than
they are right now.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Yeah, he's been super valuable. He hasn't given up an
earned run yet, he's almost become automatic. Like today's game,
they were down a run or upper run, and he
gave up a leadoff hit. But I never really felt
that there was any danger him giving up that lead that,
particularly against the White Sox. But yeah, you know, war's
(12:27):
tough with relief pitchers. And what's interesting is if you
look at Fangrass War, you know there's two different war
calculations the fan Grass and there's Baseball Reference, and he's
much better off with Baseball Reference than he is with Fangrass,
where he's way way down there. I'm not sure what
the different what they're looking at differently, but you'd think
that a stat like that would be pretty consistent between
(12:48):
the two groups calculating it, but sometimes it's not. But
regardless of war and what his number is, I think
anyone watching this team knows that a lockdown closer is
hugely important because we've seen in past years what has
happened when they don't have one of those, right, And
(13:09):
I kind of like, you know, with Scott Servis, he
went more for using his best reliever in high leverage situations,
not necessarily in the ninth inning. I like just having
the closer close the game as a better strategy.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
I think s particlarly when you've got another another guy
who can do the leverage work, like a Matt Brash
now that he's back, and you know, was supposed to
be Santos, but it doesn't look like we're going to
see him for a while.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
But I think I think mentally, when a guy like
Munios knows he's working the ninth. I think I think it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Helps Larry Stone with us and and Larry in Week
one this year, dick was out and uh I kind
of engaged Softy and uhh, yeah, we can get another
drop on that one. But Softy and Jackson, and the
topic that I brought up was that there's for all
(14:06):
of us, there's a handful of athletes that, yes, being
good is important, but there's a certain aesthetic smoothness and
almost artistic beauty to their craft. For me, Ernie Els,
I had once put a screensaver up of Ernie ELS's swing,
and of course Braddy Couples, and then of course there's
junior swing for me. Eric Dickerson running of football is
(14:30):
just almost poet, you know, it's just beauty in motion.
Damn Marino throwing a football. Where I'm going with that
and where I went then was there is a smoothness
to this cat want Brian Wu you know, like Marianna
Rivera like in terms of his like everything looks so
buttery and yet he can still touch you know, well
(14:51):
past mid nineties, upper nineties, and there's just something so
graceful and beautiful about his pitching motion. Here we talked
about war he's at one point eight, just behind Mouni
is at one point nine. Just talk about Brian wu
and and who's been the ace if you look at
the numbers, but also maybe touch on on what you
(15:11):
think mechanically or or or or maybe other pictures that
have caught you where you just say, man, there's there's
something pretty about the way he throws a baseball.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, no, I'm with you, Hugh. I love pictures like
that where it doesn't even look like they're throwing. And
then you then you look at the gun and it's
ninety seven.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Yeah, and then you know, then there's other guys like
Robbie Ray who have to put everything that they have
into it, and grunt heizer.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Like her seizer looks so choppy, you know, right.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Scout's called that max effort guys,
and he's the he's the he's a min effort guy,
you know, the opposite of a max effort guy. Uh,
you know, I think that's really practical.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I'm gonna interrupt you. I'm sorry. I meant Clayton Kershaw,
I said hers seizer. My brain was thinking Clayton Kersheye.
I'm sorry. I had to it's very to interrupt you.
But but Clayton Kershaw, you know that that funky that
that is like the ugliest, right, and so at any
rate continue, I'm sorry, but but yeah, I had to
make that distinction.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, yeah, I was wondering why you threw her that was.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
That that was a big That's why I had to
correct myself. No, Millan Claytons the other dodger.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, but I think that's what attracted the Mariners
to him when he had a you know, mediocre college
career at cal Poly. I think it was, uh, they
just saw that motion, they saw that delivery, they saw
the stuff and felt that they could refine it and
uh uh they've done that, but a lot of it
(16:44):
is just inherent. And then they smoothed it, smoothed it
out a little. He got healthy, He added a couple
of pitches. But yeah, it's rare to see a picture
who was as smooth as that as that, you know,
I think Madison Bumgarner was kind of like that in
his heyday. James Paxton with the Mariners was a real
(17:04):
smooth guy who you looked up and it was ninety
eight and I put him in you know, he's in
that category.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
As well, Larry, before we let you go, you know,
you get George Kirby back tomorrow. Logan will be coming back,
hopefully very very soon, Bryce Miller, very very soon. Does
this baseball team have a fourteen and six, fifteen and
five twenty game run in them where they can just
really put this division not away, but put a lot
(17:32):
of distance between themselves, or do you still think this
offense is just gonna sputter, particularly at home, and be
in two inconsistent and we're just gonna have to hope
for a whole lot of eleven to nine twenty game stretches.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
I think they do have that potential. I think they've
had a streak like that this year. A lot a
lot will depend on how Kirby comes back. You know,
just because he's coming back doesn't mean he's going to
come back and be George Kirby. Uh so if but
if he is, and and they get Logan Gilbert back
(18:07):
as well, which is also no guarantee that he's going
to come back anytime soon and be Logan Gilbert. But
if they can, I think, uh, that really bodes well
for them, uh distancing themselves from the division, because I
think the rest of the division is kind of mediocre.
I think it's there for the for the taking for sure,
even more than we thought it was.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
The Astros are having a lot of a lot of
hit pitching injuries. The Rangers for some reason can't hit
even with Brett Boone as they're they're hitting coach. Uh
so uh yeah, I think the potential is definitely there.
The offense has kind of cooled down a little from
that peak in April, so I still think they need
(18:51):
to go out and get a bat or two at
the trade deadline. You know, you still have some real
dead holds and they all show. But despite what he
did today, you know, right field with the ris is
still a problem area. You know, first base has been ye,
I think it can really be upgraded, and even even
you know, second or third base could be upgraded as well.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Larry, always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
All right, Thanks, guys, you've bet Larry.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Stone brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery.
Don't forget their triple play special is going on.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
As a drink, an appetizer, and an entree for as
low as ten ninety nine their patios are open, so
outdoor dining is on through the summer. Come join me
and turn a triple play at the RAM, all right,
We're gonna kind of turn the page. We have got
a we've got a battle going on between two media members,
(19:43):
national media members, and we've got some audio from both
of those national ESPN media members. We're gonna play and
kind of dig into it a little bit over the
next few minutes on ninety three point three KJRFM
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