December 22, 2025 • 20 mins
Rich Gannon, 2002 NFL MVP and current Analyst with SiriusXM, joins Dave Softy Mahler and Hugh Millen to talk about the 2025 NFL season, quarterback revivals all around the league currently, Sam Darnold’s season in Seattle and his big-game trends, the Seahawks win over the Rams last week, and the DK Metcalf fan incident in Detroit.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Duke of Duke Seafood. Lady, you know that
this hour I was Softy in dick On your Home
for the Huskies and Kraken is proudly brought to you
by Duke Seafood. Why not make it a Duke's night tonight.
Reserve your table today at Dukeseafood dot com on Sports
Radio ninety three point three kjrff H.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's not very often, my friend. As much as we
love having accomplished NFL superstar like yourself join us on
the Railway program, it's not very often we have an
NFL MVP joined the show.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, he's MVP in a couple of years before that,
he was first Team All Pro. Here's a guy in
rich Gannon. We played in the same ear. We played
against each other. Now we're both members of the thirty
third team, a think tank that tosses around ideas about football.
And he's done a number of presentations. He's riveting, he's brilliant.
Rich Gannon. Great to have you with us. Thanks for
(00:52):
joining us.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Guys, it's great to be with you. Just a great
time of the year. It's the holidays, French time in
the NFL playoffs are right on the corner and I
can't wait for the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Amen, And I'm gonna just throw it out to you,
and from a general sense the entire twenty twenty five season,
what is top of mind for you as to what
you've been seeing in the NFL this year?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I think you and I, you and I talk about this.
I just think the overall level of play, and especially
from an offensive perspective, is down. And you say, well,
why and not adapt? But I think you just look
at the records. I mean, how many bad teams. I
think I was looking at some numbers last week. We've
got a dozen teams with yeah, a dozen teams that
(01:42):
losing records. I think fourteen teams that losing records, and
like a dozen teams that are around five hundred. I mean,
you know, so many bad football teams out there. You
look at the Dolphins and Jets, and you know the Bengals.
You know at five and ten they missed Joe Burrow
and the defense is horrible. The Browns. You look at
the Titans and it's unwatchable football Raiders at two and thirteen.
I mean that's just the AFC. You look at the
(02:04):
NFC the Commanders four wins, Giants have two wins. The
Vikings are below five hundred, the Falcons and Saints as well,
and even the Buccaneers are seventy eight. I mean, it's
a lot of the Cardinals are three and twelve. I mean,
it's a lot of really bad football teams out there.
And then you know, on the other side of it,
you got a handful of teams that are doing it
the right way. So, you know, I just think that
(02:25):
there's been so much turnover in our business. We've had
thirty five coaches get fired in the last five seasons,
seven a year. We already fired two this year. We'll
fire another five before it's all said and done. So
much turnover with the coordinators and play colors. You look
at how it's affecting the young quarterbacks, and this drives
me crazy. I watched the Vikings and Giants game the
other day and both quarterbacks clearly don't understand protections. It's unbelievable.
(02:50):
He just just watched these games and you see guys
come off the edge and the quarterbacks don't see it.
Those two quarterbacks. You look at Jackson Darton J McCarthy
that more time this year in the Blue ten than
any of the quarterback in the league. It's crazy, but
it's just it is what it is. There's some good players,
there's some good coaches, but there's a lot of very
(03:11):
very mediocre football at best.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, Rich Cannon with us. Rich, it's Dave Mahler and
I wonder if you've stumbled upon something. And I'm sure
that all you smart guys are the thirty third team.
I've already talked about this, but because of the lack
of quality football around parts of the NFL, has that
guys maybe contributed rich to the resurgence of some of
(03:35):
these quarterbacks Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Gino Smith up until
this year. Daniel Jones that because there's such a a
lower class of play from certain organizations that guys like
that have been given chances at second and third opportunities
that never would have been there before.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Well, I think there's very two quarterbacks that can come
into our game have immediate success. I mean, I think
you look at Damn Marino. I mean, you know, he's
a he's a rare exception, but I mean most people,
you know go to adversity. I mean, you and I
dealt with it. I think you look at Peyton Manning,
he went three and thirteen in his first year and
two more inceptions and touchdowns. Now didn't take him long
to figure it out. But you mentioned Baker Mayfield and
(04:18):
Sam Darnold. I mean, I think they're great examples of
guys that went to some bad teams weren't surrounded by
a great I always say when you evaluate the quarterback,
it's not just the quarterback, but you got to so
much say what happens at that position is impacted by
what's going on around him. I think when you look
at those situations, you know, the coaching staffs were turned over,
they fired the you know, head coach of the coordinator
(04:40):
of the first season. They both want to kind of
dysfunctional situations, and both of them came out on the
other end. You know, it took them a while. You know,
both of them had a bounce around the number of
different teams. But I think they're different players, and I
think there's a lot to be said for experience at
that position. I think physical mental toughness is really important.
I think both exude that. You know, I think you
have to have it. You know you're going to deal
(05:02):
with adversity at some point or another, you know, during
a season during your career, and I think both quarterbacks
are better because of it.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Rich Cannon with this and Rich we're going to drill
down on Sam Darnald here in a second. But but
I think that there's there's lessons from your career because
here you played seventeen years, you started a Super Bowl,
and yet your four Pro Bowls they started at age
thirty four, thirty four, thirty five, thirty six, thirty seven.
(05:30):
You're the MVP of the league at age thirty seven.
So what is it about? Because obviously Sea our fans
we're interested in in you know, what we're going to
get from Sam Darnald potentially. What was it about your
career where you say, okay, I had my best productivity
in my mid thirties.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Well, I think every situation is different. I would tell
you that I really didn't go to a good situation
early on. I wasn't ready to play when I came
to college out of Delaware, and I had a lot
to learn to in terms of protections and footwork and concepts.
And I went to a team in Minnesota that you know,
we had a lot of turnover they fired coaches, fired coordinators.
I had three or four different coordinator coordinators in my
(06:11):
first four season or six seasons in the league. And
the other thing I never had was somebody who really
believed in me. And here you know how important that is,
Like it really didn't happen for me until I was
about thirty three years old, you know where Giant Gruden
reached out and stuck his neck out for me and
convinced South Davis that they should sign me. And when
(06:32):
I had that relationship with John and he believed in me,
that that made a world of difference to me. I
didn't have it in Kansas City. I played some good
ball for Marti Shining, but it was never my team.
You know. I was always taken over for Elvis Skirbach
or Steve Bono. It wasn't my team. But when you
get your team, you get your opportunity, you make the
most of it. I did that with the Raiders. I
left at a better place than I founded. But yeah,
(06:52):
I think every situation is different. I think you talk about,
you know, somebody like a Sam Donald, I think when
he looks back on his career with the Jets, and
you know, he'd probably know anybotter, but he thought to himself, man,
I can't believe I survived that. Go to Carolina, a
brand new coach for inst time coach in Matt role.
He wasn't ready for the opportunity, hard to first time
play caller and Joe Brady. I mean, the whole thing
was a mess. And he sits there and he you know,
(07:14):
he gets the brunt of the of the criticism, and
I just think that that's pretty typical and a lot.
It ruins a lot of players, but the ones that
survive are better for it. I didn't think Sam Donald's
a much different player. I've had great conversations with John
Schneider the GM there, and they love him. They love
everything about him. His physical, mental toughness is his work ethic,
(07:35):
his passion, his preparation, you know, his leadership skills, and
I just look at you know, that game the other
the other day was a great you know, last week
was a great example of it. I mean, you know,
they they come back from a sixteen point deficit. You
look at his numbers and the crunch time, he was terrific.
I mean it may not always be picture perfect with
Sam Donald, but he found a way to put his
(07:55):
team that positions have a chance to winning. Tweet that
I think that's a sign of a good quarterback.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
We'll talk more of Sam rich if you can. Rich
gain in two thousand and two, NFL MVP is with
us and look clear upgrade obviously from what we had
a year ago and versus what we have now in
Sam Donald. But there is a segment of the Seahawk
population and the segment of the NFL population that is
waiting for Sam Darnald to win a playoff game or
to fall flat on his face. For those that say
(08:21):
things like, hey, go out and win a big game, Sammy,
what do you say to them.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Well, they're right. I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you.
I mean, you know, the proof isn't a pudding. I mean,
there's there's that concern. You know. It certainly was with
the Rams and the struggle last year and you know
late in the year, and I just think the postseason
and people want to see it. Right, you have to
you have to earn your stripes in this profession. I
do know this. I did a lot of his games
when he was in with the Jets ear in his career,
(08:49):
and the problem he had was he really goes back
to his day at USC, he had thirty seven turnovers
in twenty six games. He was he was careless with
the ball in the pocket. It wasn't just the interceptions,
it was know it was that poor ball security. That
that that followed him to the Jets. He was bad
with that there and he got away with it and
they kept playing him and then never sat him down
and goes to Carolina the same thing. I think the situation.
(09:12):
I think the opportunity to go to the San Francisco
forty nine ers and spend a year there was great.
Going to Minnesota Kevin O'Connell was really, you know, great
opportunity to play and to really hone his skills. And
I think I think he's a much he's a more
mature player. I think he understands the position better. I
think he understands protections better. I think he understands defenses.
I don't think he's as a surprise and the game
(09:33):
is slow down for him. I think he's got a
much better job of protecting the ball. Now. It hasn't
always been perfect. You know, he's throwing some picks and
he's you know, he's put the ball on the ground.
But I think he's a he's a better player, and
I think he's a resilient guy. I think he's a
guy that he can go in the foxhol with and
feel really good about. And I just know that I
think he I think he understands who he is, and
(09:54):
I think he understands the team that he has around him,
which is really important. I mean you look at that
that that team there, and they're disciplined, they don't make
a lot of mistakes. They play great team ball. I
mean defensively, they tackle well, they play situational football really well.
They can run the ball with Walker and Charbonnet. I
mean they've got players on the perimeter. They've got Jackson,
(10:16):
Smith and Jig. But I mean they got this. Shaheat
has made a world of difference, guys. Just in the
return game. Yes, we think about that that that play.
That play was a transformational play and that game was
really over until Shaheat brings it back at the two
point converge and now of a sudden, the sidelines is
different in Seattle. They got a chance to win the game.
(10:37):
I tell you this, this is a this is a
dangerous team. Don't thinknybody wants to see the Seahawks in
the postseason.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Ris Cannon with us having a great visit.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Rich.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
You mentioned that game. Let's let's go back to that.
From the Darnold perspective. He throws the two gnarly interceptions, right,
and at that juncture, you know, his passer rating for
the game was fifty one. From that point on after
the second pick, you know, on the into the fourth
quarter in overtime, his passer rating was one hundred and
thirty seven. So he was able to kind of, you know,
(11:10):
just set that aside what he had done and then
play great football to get the win. Talk to us
about the challenge of that. As a quarterback, you've let
your team down. You know, we'd love to come into
every game and you know, hey, start hot, remain hot,
throw for three hund and forty yards, we win, hallelujah.
But it doesn't always play that way, and you've got
(11:31):
to make the plays at the end, even if you've
failed during that game. Just just speak it from your
perspective about that challenge.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I think it was really impressive, just as you point out,
you I mean, when you consider the history, right, he
had a four game losing threak against the Ramsy threw
four interceptions in the game early in the season against
this team, and I think it he throws some more
and even I would say, oh, here we go again.
You know, I think it's easy for the sidelines to
start feeling that way. The coach is the play caller.
And yet they fought through it. He thought through it,
(12:02):
as you mentioned, you know, and at the end there
when when they had to have it, Uh, he was awesome.
He's eight to twelve. He had two passing touchdowns, no
no turnovers. The final five drives of the game. He
played really, really well. But I think the other thing
you look at is, you know, that was his ninth
game winning drive in the fourth quarter or overtime in
the last two seasons. He had five total in his
career prior to that. I think he's a much better
(12:23):
player late in the game when it when it when
you when you got to have it at crunch time, situationally,
and I just think, you know, he's a resilient I mean,
I don't think he panics. I don't think when bad
things happen you're going to lose him for the day.
I think the ability to fight to adversity to kind
of you know, get to get the train back on
the tracks. It was impressive and I think I think
when that happens and people see it, and you see
(12:45):
it over and over again, and you see him, you know,
there at the end of games making plays and putting
this team in the position to have a chance to win,
that rubs off on everybody. It rubs off on you know,
your teammates, It rubs off from defensive players, It rubs
off on the Clint Kubiat to play color. You know that.
I think there's a trust factor when when you see
him do it, you know, it's very easy when your
quarterback starts the way he did okay with you know,
(13:08):
with a couple of picks and and and and the
struggle in the first eight drives the game the tech
and say, you know what, he don't have it today, guys,
let's to make sure we run the ball. Let's play conservative.
Let's not let's you know, let's take the ball of
his hands. And you know, you and I have been that,
said Shrecks earlier. I remember we'd have a lead in
the game and and Tom Moore got bless him, but
we run the ball first you know, first time run
(13:28):
the ball and second down on the third nines, O
can go make a play. I mean, like, I know
what you're doing. You know, you don't trust me. You know,
you're not going to put me in the position that
to you know, to manage this. And I think that's
not the case in Seattle. I think they have a
lot of trust in their quarterback. I think it's a
good thing. I need say from you know, from uh,
you know, just from from someone outside the building just
looking at it. I think in order for him to
(13:50):
take his game to the next level. You know, you
look at the guy on the other side that that
he competed against, you know, Stafford. I mean, Stafford's a
Hall of fame, there's no less about it. But Sam
just needs to iron out some of the rough edges.
You know, you can't you know, we'll talk about stacking
good series together, good quarters together, good games together. Just
(14:11):
got to smooth out some of those rough edges and
eliminate some of the poor decisions and some of the
turnovers that you can kind of ruin a really good performance.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Well that's the crazy thing, Richie, think about it that
Sam Darnold is only twenty eight years old. Yet he's
been now in the NFL for what eight years and
he's only twenty eight. Yeah, he's got plenty of time to,
you know, maybe get those edges smoothed over, like you
talked about. But Rich Cannon's with us on the radio show.
He was in for Dick Fane and Rich. I'm curious
both you and I had this conversation before you came
(14:40):
on about DK metcalf in the incident yesterday in Detroit.
I'll just give you the floor. What was your take
on watching that in these subsequent two game suspension today
for him?
Speaker 4 (14:52):
You know, honestly, I can't say I was surprised that
he did it. I mean, I think if you talk
to any defensive cordator, any defensive player, they know what
the issues are with him. And you know, people try
and push the buttons right, and you know they talk
about so, here's this guy is an accident waiting to happen.
You can get under his skin, you can get him
out of his game. He's an emotional guy. You know,
(15:13):
you can get him. The personal files come easy. I mean,
it happened in Seattle. I think they try to manage
the situations as best they could. He's in Pittsburgh now,
and of course you think that you know, that's Mike
Tomlin and the structure and discipline there that that that
this would be a problem. He is who he is, guys,
and he's a phenomenally gifted, talented player. I think he
(15:34):
does a hand thing full of things really well. I
think he's a really good physical receiver with the ball
in his hands at the catcher. Think he runs the
clans and the and that goes in the phades really well.
I don't think the rest of his route three is
as good as it should be or can be. I
don't think he transitions as well in an out of
cuts on certain routes. But he's a big, strong guy
(15:55):
that can be a real difference maker. But you need
all of them, and you know, you need a he said,
you need a guy like that who's going to be
disciplined for a sixty minute game. You can't have him
go off the you know, go off the rails and
lose it. And I think we see it too often
in games where he's pushing after the play and the
cornerbacks in his face and his grilled talking to him,
and that's kind of the that's kind of them on him,
(16:16):
and then then he loses his mind and leaves the
eventual he goes to the stands. I'm not at all
surprised that the lake came down on as home as
hard as they did. I mean, I knew there'd be
a suspension. I just said an offer be for one
or two games and just comes at a early, awful
time for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
A couple more minutes with Rich Cannon and and we
mentioned the thirty third team and the presentations. When Rich
is presenting, it's like ye have Hutton. We're all just
you know, enamored with his content. And Rich, I really
want you to tell the story that the way you
told it the thirty third Team about Mike McCarthy interviewing
(16:56):
for the job with the Packers and he was asked
about protect the story about being asked about and tell
it like you told it, because I thought that was
such a window for fans into what the NFL really is.
If you can tell that story, you're a great storyteller.
You know, tell the fans about his experience and what
(17:18):
you took away from that.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Well, I was big Mike McCarthy saying you know, he
went to school at Fort Hayes State, some from out
the Pittsburgh area and the graduate assistant to pitt And
and that's where he met Paul Hackett and John Grew
and they're all on that staff together. And then he
gets the opportunity when Paul Hackett comes to Kansas City's
the offensive coordinator to be the offensive quality control coach.
Eventually became the quarterbacks coaches, my quarterback coach. Beforeies loved him.
(17:42):
I knew he was going to be a great coach,
and eventually goes on to you know, being the head
coach of the Packers. They won a Super Bowl. He
did some great things with Brett Barb and Aaron Rodgers
and the course success with the Cowboys. But he's interviewing
for the job in Green Bay and they start, they
get off at the board and they say, well, let's
tell us, you know, start with protections. What can you
(18:03):
tell us about protection? And Mike literally looked at the
guys in the room. It was like five guys. I
think it was like the general manager and like some
of the executive people and I don't know someone who
search committee whatever it was, and he said how much
he was like he was startled by the question. He's like,
how much time do you have? Like he says, this
could take a while. He was like, they go, we
got we got all that. He says, all right, So
he was up at the board for two and a
(18:25):
half hours and they said okay, and that that's like
so he started talking about He goes, well, there's five
man protections, are six man protection, there's seven man protections?
Is eight man protections just Slyde protections? Just going back.
He says, let's start with it. Let's start with the
solid seven man protection, because that's where we when we
start with protections, we started a solid seven man protection.
That's your base protection. Let's walk through that, he said.
And he went through it, and like and that's why
(18:46):
I said, like to me, when I started spending time,
like that's when I really became a kind of a
you know, uh, you know, really good at my craft
because that's where it starts. You know, when you put
a passing game together, you have to understand protections. And
I look at these games and dries me crazy, and
you and I talk about on Wednesdays, like you watch
these quarterbacks that are going out there that don't know
(19:07):
what they're doing. They don't know, and that's how these
guys are getting hurt because they don't understand. For these
defensive coordinators are bringing all kinds of heat. You got
to understand what you're seeing. You know, it's funny I
say that. You know, it's a public service announcement. You know,
we've got these warning labels and everything. If you're a
parent and you love your kid and he's a young
(19:27):
quarterback in the NFL, you better make sure he understands
protection because if not, he's going to get knocked out.
These guys they've thrown around. These these defensive players are
trained assassins. Their job is to knock you out of
the game. Too. Many quarterbacks are getting way late because
they can't see where the pressure is coming from. But
Mike McCarthy, he coached me up and you know, Hugh,
(19:48):
I wasn't asleep at the wheel man. I knew where
that stuff was coming from. I under detections inside it out.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah you have to, but yeah, you said it was
like two and a half hours just on seven man protections,
And he said ahead and gone through the five to
six of the eight.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
And we have you.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
We could and we could go on forever with you, uh,
just visiting, just being a sponge your knowledge and all love,
love to visit. Uh and and let's do it again soon.
But but Merry Christmas to you. Thanks for the visit,
and we'll see you soon down the road.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
You guys are the best. Thanks for having me, all right, man?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
You bet that's great stuff. Rich Gannon two thousand and two,
NFL MVP guy. I really felt like that was like
whatever we had planned for the rest of the show
for the final hour before cracking pregame, Let's just cancel
it and hear rich Gannon talk football man for the
next sixty minutes.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Man.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I just feel like there's nothing we can do that's
going to be better than that. But we do have
Michael Pennox joining us at six pm on the radio
show all Right, Happen a little fun with audio slash.
Hey did you hear that?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
What's that?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Dick?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Your favorite segment? Hugh Next on ninety three to three KJRFM.
This is Duke of Duke Seafood. Lady, you know that
this hour I was Softy in dick On your Home
for the Huskies and Kraken is proudly brought to you
by Duke Seafood. Why not make it a Duke's night tonight.
Reserve your table today at Dukeseafood dot com on Sports
Radio ninety three point three kjrff H.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's not very often, my friend. As much as we
love having accomplished NFL superstar like yourself join us on
the Railway program, it's not very often we have an
NFL MVP joined the show.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, he's MVP in a couple of years before that,
he was first Team All Pro. Here's a guy in
rich Gannon. We played in the same ear. We played
against each other. Now we're both members of the thirty
third team, a think tank that tosses around ideas about football.
And he's done a number of presentations. He's riveting, he's brilliant.
Rich Gannon. Great to have you with us. Thanks for
(00:52):
joining us.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Guys, it's great to be with you. Just a great
time of the year. It's the holidays, French time in
the NFL playoffs are right on the corner and I
can't wait for the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Amen, And I'm gonna just throw it out to you,
and from a general sense the entire twenty twenty five season,
what is top of mind for you as to what
you've been seeing in the NFL this year?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I think you and I, you and I talk about this.
I just think the overall level of play, and especially
from an offensive perspective, is down. And you say, well,
why and not adapt? But I think you just look
at the records. I mean, how many bad teams. I
think I was looking at some numbers last week. We've
got a dozen teams with yeah, a dozen teams that
(01:42):
losing records. I think fourteen teams that losing records, and
like a dozen teams that are around five hundred. I mean,
you know, so many bad football teams out there. You
look at the Dolphins and Jets, and you know the Bengals.
You know at five and ten they missed Joe Burrow
and the defense is horrible. The Browns. You look at
the Titans and it's unwatchable football Raiders at two and thirteen.
I mean that's just the AFC. You look at the
(02:04):
NFC the Commanders four wins, Giants have two wins. The
Vikings are below five hundred, the Falcons and Saints as well,
and even the Buccaneers are seventy eight. I mean, it's
a lot of the Cardinals are three and twelve. I mean,
it's a lot of really bad football teams out there.
And then you know, on the other side of it,
you got a handful of teams that are doing it
the right way. So, you know, I just think that
(02:25):
there's been so much turnover in our business. We've had
thirty five coaches get fired in the last five seasons,
seven a year. We already fired two this year. We'll
fire another five before it's all said and done. So
much turnover with the coordinators and play colors. You look
at how it's affecting the young quarterbacks, and this drives
me crazy. I watched the Vikings and Giants game the
other day and both quarterbacks clearly don't understand protections. It's unbelievable.
(02:50):
He just just watched these games and you see guys
come off the edge and the quarterbacks don't see it.
Those two quarterbacks. You look at Jackson Darton J McCarthy
that more time this year in the Blue ten than
any of the quarterback in the league. It's crazy, but
it's just it is what it is. There's some good players,
there's some good coaches, but there's a lot of very
(03:11):
very mediocre football at best.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, Rich Cannon with us. Rich, it's Dave Mahler and
I wonder if you've stumbled upon something. And I'm sure
that all you smart guys are the thirty third team.
I've already talked about this, but because of the lack
of quality football around parts of the NFL, has that
guys maybe contributed rich to the resurgence of some of
(03:35):
these quarterbacks Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Gino Smith up until
this year. Daniel Jones that because there's such a a
lower class of play from certain organizations that guys like
that have been given chances at second and third opportunities
that never would have been there before.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Well, I think there's very two quarterbacks that can come
into our game have immediate success. I mean, I think
you look at Damn Marino. I mean, you know, he's
a he's a rare exception, but I mean most people,
you know go to adversity. I mean, you and I
dealt with it. I think you look at Peyton Manning,
he went three and thirteen in his first year and
two more inceptions and touchdowns. Now didn't take him long
to figure it out. But you mentioned Baker Mayfield and
(04:18):
Sam Darnold. I mean, I think they're great examples of
guys that went to some bad teams weren't surrounded by
a great I always say when you evaluate the quarterback,
it's not just the quarterback, but you got to so
much say what happens at that position is impacted by
what's going on around him. I think when you look
at those situations, you know, the coaching staffs were turned over,
they fired the you know, head coach of the coordinator
(04:40):
of the first season. They both want to kind of
dysfunctional situations, and both of them came out on the
other end. You know, it took them a while. You know,
both of them had a bounce around the number of
different teams. But I think they're different players, and I
think there's a lot to be said for experience at
that position. I think physical mental toughness is really important.
I think both exude that. You know, I think you
have to have it. You know you're going to deal
(05:02):
with adversity at some point or another, you know, during
a season during your career, and I think both quarterbacks
are better because of it.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Rich Cannon with this and Rich we're going to drill
down on Sam Darnald here in a second. But but
I think that there's there's lessons from your career because
here you played seventeen years, you started a Super Bowl,
and yet your four Pro Bowls they started at age
thirty four, thirty four, thirty five, thirty six, thirty seven.
(05:30):
You're the MVP of the league at age thirty seven.
So what is it about? Because obviously Sea our fans
we're interested in in you know, what we're going to
get from Sam Darnald potentially. What was it about your
career where you say, okay, I had my best productivity
in my mid thirties.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Well, I think every situation is different. I would tell
you that I really didn't go to a good situation
early on. I wasn't ready to play when I came
to college out of Delaware, and I had a lot
to learn to in terms of protections and footwork and concepts.
And I went to a team in Minnesota that you know,
we had a lot of turnover they fired coaches, fired coordinators.
I had three or four different coordinator coordinators in my
(06:11):
first four season or six seasons in the league. And
the other thing I never had was somebody who really
believed in me. And here you know how important that is,
Like it really didn't happen for me until I was
about thirty three years old, you know where Giant Gruden
reached out and stuck his neck out for me and
convinced South Davis that they should sign me. And when
(06:32):
I had that relationship with John and he believed in me,
that that made a world of difference to me. I
didn't have it in Kansas City. I played some good
ball for Marti Shining, but it was never my team.
You know. I was always taken over for Elvis Skirbach
or Steve Bono. It wasn't my team. But when you
get your team, you get your opportunity, you make the
most of it. I did that with the Raiders. I
left at a better place than I founded. But yeah,
(06:52):
I think every situation is different. I think you talk about,
you know, somebody like a Sam Donald, I think when
he looks back on his career with the Jets, and
you know, he'd probably know anybotter, but he thought to himself, man,
I can't believe I survived that. Go to Carolina, a
brand new coach for inst time coach in Matt role.
He wasn't ready for the opportunity, hard to first time
play caller and Joe Brady. I mean, the whole thing
was a mess. And he sits there and he you know,
(07:14):
he gets the brunt of the of the criticism, and
I just think that that's pretty typical and a lot.
It ruins a lot of players, but the ones that
survive are better for it. I didn't think Sam Donald's
a much different player. I've had great conversations with John
Schneider the GM there, and they love him. They love
everything about him. His physical, mental toughness is his work ethic,
(07:35):
his passion, his preparation, you know, his leadership skills, and
I just look at you know, that game the other
the other day was a great you know, last week
was a great example of it. I mean, you know,
they they come back from a sixteen point deficit. You
look at his numbers and the crunch time, he was terrific.
I mean it may not always be picture perfect with
Sam Donald, but he found a way to put his
(07:55):
team that positions have a chance to winning. Tweet that
I think that's a sign of a good quarterback.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
We'll talk more of Sam rich if you can. Rich
gain in two thousand and two, NFL MVP is with
us and look clear upgrade obviously from what we had
a year ago and versus what we have now in
Sam Donald. But there is a segment of the Seahawk
population and the segment of the NFL population that is
waiting for Sam Darnald to win a playoff game or
to fall flat on his face. For those that say
(08:21):
things like, hey, go out and win a big game, Sammy,
what do you say to them.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Well, they're right. I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you.
I mean, you know, the proof isn't a pudding. I mean,
there's there's that concern. You know. It certainly was with
the Rams and the struggle last year and you know
late in the year, and I just think the postseason
and people want to see it. Right, you have to
you have to earn your stripes in this profession. I
do know this. I did a lot of his games
when he was in with the Jets ear in his career,
(08:49):
and the problem he had was he really goes back
to his day at USC, he had thirty seven turnovers
in twenty six games. He was he was careless with
the ball in the pocket. It wasn't just the interceptions,
it was know it was that poor ball security. That
that that followed him to the Jets. He was bad
with that there and he got away with it and
they kept playing him and then never sat him down
and goes to Carolina the same thing. I think the situation.
(09:12):
I think the opportunity to go to the San Francisco
forty nine ers and spend a year there was great.
Going to Minnesota Kevin O'Connell was really, you know, great
opportunity to play and to really hone his skills. And
I think I think he's a much he's a more
mature player. I think he understands the position better. I
think he understands protections better. I think he understands defenses.
I don't think he's as a surprise and the game
(09:33):
is slow down for him. I think he's got a
much better job of protecting the ball. Now. It hasn't
always been perfect. You know, he's throwing some picks and
he's you know, he's put the ball on the ground.
But I think he's a he's a better player, and
I think he's a resilient guy. I think he's a
guy that he can go in the foxhol with and
feel really good about. And I just know that I
think he I think he understands who he is, and
(09:54):
I think he understands the team that he has around him,
which is really important. I mean you look at that
that that team there, and they're disciplined, they don't make
a lot of mistakes. They play great team ball. I
mean defensively, they tackle well, they play situational football really well.
They can run the ball with Walker and Charbonnet. I
mean they've got players on the perimeter. They've got Jackson,
(10:16):
Smith and Jig. But I mean they got this. Shaheat
has made a world of difference, guys. Just in the
return game. Yes, we think about that that that play.
That play was a transformational play and that game was
really over until Shaheat brings it back at the two
point converge and now of a sudden, the sidelines is
different in Seattle. They got a chance to win the game.
(10:37):
I tell you this, this is a this is a
dangerous team. Don't thinknybody wants to see the Seahawks in
the postseason.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Ris Cannon with us having a great visit.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Rich.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
You mentioned that game. Let's let's go back to that.
From the Darnold perspective. He throws the two gnarly interceptions, right,
and at that juncture, you know, his passer rating for
the game was fifty one. From that point on after
the second pick, you know, on the into the fourth
quarter in overtime, his passer rating was one hundred and
thirty seven. So he was able to kind of, you know,
(11:10):
just set that aside what he had done and then
play great football to get the win. Talk to us
about the challenge of that. As a quarterback, you've let
your team down. You know, we'd love to come into
every game and you know, hey, start hot, remain hot,
throw for three hund and forty yards, we win, hallelujah.
But it doesn't always play that way, and you've got
(11:31):
to make the plays at the end, even if you've
failed during that game. Just just speak it from your
perspective about that challenge.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I think it was really impressive, just as you point out,
you I mean, when you consider the history, right, he
had a four game losing threak against the Ramsy threw
four interceptions in the game early in the season against
this team, and I think it he throws some more
and even I would say, oh, here we go again.
You know, I think it's easy for the sidelines to
start feeling that way. The coach is the play caller.
And yet they fought through it. He thought through it,
(12:02):
as you mentioned, you know, and at the end there
when when they had to have it, Uh, he was awesome.
He's eight to twelve. He had two passing touchdowns, no
no turnovers. The final five drives of the game. He
played really, really well. But I think the other thing
you look at is, you know, that was his ninth
game winning drive in the fourth quarter or overtime in
the last two seasons. He had five total in his
career prior to that. I think he's a much better
(12:23):
player late in the game when it when it when
you when you got to have it at crunch time, situationally,
and I just think, you know, he's a resilient I mean,
I don't think he panics. I don't think when bad
things happen you're going to lose him for the day.
I think the ability to fight to adversity to kind
of you know, get to get the train back on
the tracks. It was impressive and I think I think
when that happens and people see it, and you see
(12:45):
it over and over again, and you see him, you know,
there at the end of games making plays and putting
this team in the position to have a chance to win,
that rubs off on everybody. It rubs off on you know,
your teammates, It rubs off from defensive players, It rubs
off on the Clint Kubiat to play color. You know that.
I think there's a trust factor when when you see
him do it, you know, it's very easy when your
quarterback starts the way he did okay with you know,
(13:08):
with a couple of picks and and and and the
struggle in the first eight drives the game the tech
and say, you know what, he don't have it today, guys,
let's to make sure we run the ball. Let's play conservative.
Let's not let's you know, let's take the ball of
his hands. And you know, you and I have been that,
said Shrecks earlier. I remember we'd have a lead in
the game and and Tom Moore got bless him, but
we run the ball first you know, first time run
(13:28):
the ball and second down on the third nines, O
can go make a play. I mean, like, I know
what you're doing. You know, you don't trust me. You know,
you're not going to put me in the position that
to you know, to manage this. And I think that's
not the case in Seattle. I think they have a
lot of trust in their quarterback. I think it's a
good thing. I need say from you know, from uh,
you know, just from from someone outside the building just
looking at it. I think in order for him to
(13:50):
take his game to the next level. You know, you
look at the guy on the other side that that
he competed against, you know, Stafford. I mean, Stafford's a
Hall of fame, there's no less about it. But Sam
just needs to iron out some of the rough edges.
You know, you can't you know, we'll talk about stacking
good series together, good quarters together, good games together. Just
(14:11):
got to smooth out some of those rough edges and
eliminate some of the poor decisions and some of the
turnovers that you can kind of ruin a really good performance.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Well that's the crazy thing, Richie, think about it that
Sam Darnold is only twenty eight years old. Yet he's
been now in the NFL for what eight years and
he's only twenty eight. Yeah, he's got plenty of time to,
you know, maybe get those edges smoothed over, like you
talked about. But Rich Cannon's with us on the radio show.
He was in for Dick Fane and Rich. I'm curious
both you and I had this conversation before you came
(14:40):
on about DK metcalf in the incident yesterday in Detroit.
I'll just give you the floor. What was your take
on watching that in these subsequent two game suspension today
for him?
Speaker 4 (14:52):
You know, honestly, I can't say I was surprised that
he did it. I mean, I think if you talk
to any defensive cordator, any defensive player, they know what
the issues are with him. And you know, people try
and push the buttons right, and you know they talk
about so, here's this guy is an accident waiting to happen.
You can get under his skin, you can get him
out of his game. He's an emotional guy. You know,
(15:13):
you can get him. The personal files come easy. I mean,
it happened in Seattle. I think they try to manage
the situations as best they could. He's in Pittsburgh now,
and of course you think that you know, that's Mike
Tomlin and the structure and discipline there that that that
this would be a problem. He is who he is, guys,
and he's a phenomenally gifted, talented player. I think he
(15:34):
does a hand thing full of things really well. I
think he's a really good physical receiver with the ball
in his hands at the catcher. Think he runs the
clans and the and that goes in the phades really well.
I don't think the rest of his route three is
as good as it should be or can be. I
don't think he transitions as well in an out of
cuts on certain routes. But he's a big, strong guy
(15:55):
that can be a real difference maker. But you need
all of them, and you know, you need a he said,
you need a guy like that who's going to be
disciplined for a sixty minute game. You can't have him
go off the you know, go off the rails and
lose it. And I think we see it too often
in games where he's pushing after the play and the
cornerbacks in his face and his grilled talking to him,
and that's kind of the that's kind of them on him,
(16:16):
and then then he loses his mind and leaves the
eventual he goes to the stands. I'm not at all
surprised that the lake came down on as home as
hard as they did. I mean, I knew there'd be
a suspension. I just said an offer be for one
or two games and just comes at a early, awful
time for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
A couple more minutes with Rich Cannon and and we
mentioned the thirty third team and the presentations. When Rich
is presenting, it's like ye have Hutton. We're all just
you know, enamored with his content. And Rich, I really
want you to tell the story that the way you
told it the thirty third Team about Mike McCarthy interviewing
(16:56):
for the job with the Packers and he was asked
about protect the story about being asked about and tell
it like you told it, because I thought that was
such a window for fans into what the NFL really is.
If you can tell that story, you're a great storyteller.
You know, tell the fans about his experience and what
(17:18):
you took away from that.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Well, I was big Mike McCarthy saying you know, he
went to school at Fort Hayes State, some from out
the Pittsburgh area and the graduate assistant to pitt And
and that's where he met Paul Hackett and John Grew
and they're all on that staff together. And then he
gets the opportunity when Paul Hackett comes to Kansas City's
the offensive coordinator to be the offensive quality control coach.
Eventually became the quarterbacks coaches, my quarterback coach. Beforeies loved him.
(17:42):
I knew he was going to be a great coach,
and eventually goes on to you know, being the head
coach of the Packers. They won a Super Bowl. He
did some great things with Brett Barb and Aaron Rodgers
and the course success with the Cowboys. But he's interviewing
for the job in Green Bay and they start, they
get off at the board and they say, well, let's
tell us, you know, start with protections. What can you
(18:03):
tell us about protection? And Mike literally looked at the
guys in the room. It was like five guys. I
think it was like the general manager and like some
of the executive people and I don't know someone who
search committee whatever it was, and he said how much
he was like he was startled by the question. He's like,
how much time do you have? Like he says, this
could take a while. He was like, they go, we
got we got all that. He says, all right, So
he was up at the board for two and a
(18:25):
half hours and they said okay, and that that's like
so he started talking about He goes, well, there's five
man protections, are six man protection, there's seven man protections?
Is eight man protections just Slyde protections? Just going back.
He says, let's start with it. Let's start with the
solid seven man protection, because that's where we when we
start with protections, we started a solid seven man protection.
That's your base protection. Let's walk through that, he said.
And he went through it, and like and that's why
(18:46):
I said, like to me, when I started spending time,
like that's when I really became a kind of a
you know, uh, you know, really good at my craft
because that's where it starts. You know, when you put
a passing game together, you have to understand protections. And
I look at these games and dries me crazy, and
you and I talk about on Wednesdays, like you watch
these quarterbacks that are going out there that don't know
(19:07):
what they're doing. They don't know, and that's how these
guys are getting hurt because they don't understand. For these
defensive coordinators are bringing all kinds of heat. You got
to understand what you're seeing. You know, it's funny I
say that. You know, it's a public service announcement. You know,
we've got these warning labels and everything. If you're a
parent and you love your kid and he's a young
(19:27):
quarterback in the NFL, you better make sure he understands
protection because if not, he's going to get knocked out.
These guys they've thrown around. These these defensive players are
trained assassins. Their job is to knock you out of
the game. Too. Many quarterbacks are getting way late because
they can't see where the pressure is coming from. But
Mike McCarthy, he coached me up and you know, Hugh,
(19:48):
I wasn't asleep at the wheel man. I knew where
that stuff was coming from. I under detections inside it out.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah you have to, but yeah, you said it was
like two and a half hours just on seven man protections,
And he said ahead and gone through the five to
six of the eight.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
And we have you.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
We could and we could go on forever with you, uh,
just visiting, just being a sponge your knowledge and all love,
love to visit. Uh and and let's do it again soon.
But but Merry Christmas to you. Thanks for the visit,
and we'll see you soon down the road.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
You guys are the best. Thanks for having me, all right, man?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
You bet that's great stuff. Rich Gannon two thousand and two,
NFL MVP guy. I really felt like that was like
whatever we had planned for the rest of the show
for the final hour before cracking pregame, Let's just cancel
it and hear rich Gannon talk football man for the
next sixty minutes.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Man.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I just feel like there's nothing we can do that's
going to be better than that. But we do have
Michael Pennox joining us at six pm on the radio
show all Right, Happen a little fun with audio slash.
Hey did you hear that?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
What's that?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Dick?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Your favorite segment? Hugh Next on ninety three to three KJRFM.
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