November 8, 2024 • 36 mins
Greg Cosell and Hugh Millen join Ian for an in-depth conversation about the Seahawks as they enter the bye week with a 4-5 record. What changes need to be made, and who should stay the course? Tune in.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
No from the Star Rentals Sports to us your ninety
three point three KJRFMS sports headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Headlines are brought to you by Frostbrew Cores Light Choose
Chill on this Washington State Beef Commission Football Friday, Cracking
back at home Tonight. Next six games six game homestam
Vegas First up, six thirty pre game seven o'clock drop
of the puck. Captain'll be here Section twenty the main concourse.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Go see him.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'll be hanging out doing the pregame show last night
Thursday Night Football. Incredible game. Ravens hold on to win
thirty five thirty four win. Cincinnati went for the win.
Kind of love that though, go for the win? Why
not fall up?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Just short?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Huskies number six penn State Tomorrow, Beaver Stadium's a whiteout game.
Five o'clock kickoff. Softing the Hawks gets you ready at
one o'clock. Softy is in Pennsylvania. He'll be doing his
show there starting at three o'clock this afternoon. Of course,
you can hear the game right here on niney three
point three kJ RFM. Washington State off of bye Utah
State Tomorrow, Martin Stadium, six thirty kickoff Cougs are seven
to one. Try to run the table and see what
(00:53):
happens if they get to eleven to one. On the season,
Husky Basketball on the Road takes on Nevada tomorrow's seven o'clock.
You can hear that game will run nine fifty on
the AA Cougar basketball team host Bradley tonight at Besa Coliseum.
Gotta win that one. Got to win that one. Why
it's a quad four game. Do not lose that game.
Do not lose it. You'd have women's basketball smashed Pacific
(01:13):
eighty one fifty yesterday. The final score there Hugh Millen,
Greg co Cell And I'm gonna tell you right now
this is simple. We taped this earlier and I told
those two guys, you guys just talked football. I'm gonna
get the hell out of your way. Seahawks fans, Football fans,
you don't want to miss this.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It's time for Egan's weekly visit with NFL Films Greg
Cosl brought to you by Seattle Cider Company on your
home for the twelfth Man and the NFL Sports Radio
ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
All right, here we go, Welcome back in sports radio.
Ninety three point three KJFM on a Friday, and yes,
Seattle Cider brings us Greg co sell every Friday at
this time. We been doing this for well over a decade,
and Greg will break down the Seahawks upcoming opponent. Well,
there is no opponent this week, as we know, el
Seahawks on a bye. We have been talking about this
is how radio works. We have great ideas, we talk
(02:06):
about them, and they never ever ever get fulfilled and
get taken all the way to the finish line. Damn it,
we did it this time. I've been talking about this
for at least two or three years with both of
these guys separately, and we have them here today. I
can't even tell you how excited I am about this.
Greg Cosella's normal segment brought to you by Seattle Cider
and he's joined by our guy, Hugh Millen. I don't
(02:29):
know what we want to call this, just the football gurus,
the great minds of the game, whatever we want to
call this segment, but this is going to be basically,
we're going to talk football with two guys that know
it and talk about it with each other sometimes as well.
For the next couple segments, I'm loving doing this.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Greg. How are you today?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Doing great?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Ian?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
It's another Friday. You know. The thing is I don't
get a.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Buye yes, I know you don't. I know you don't, Hueie.
Great to have you on here.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And this is fun because I'm actually haping this on
a zoom, so like see and we can all see
each other. Hugh, give me the background real quick, because
you've said this before. When I do my show with Greg,
you'll text me and go, Yeah, I just talked to
Greg about that yesterday. You guys actually talked quite often,
don't you about football?
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Yeah, we do a fair amount. And we were also
on the thirty third team. It's kind of a think tank,
as it were. And Greg and I Greg, we met
what about twenty five years ago, A long time I was. Yeah,
I was in the bowels of the of the ESPN
basement breaking down tape with you Jaworski and Merrill Hodge. Yeah.
(03:37):
And so we've been talking for twenty five years. And
I've said it publicly. I don't want to embarrass Greg,
but of all the people that I've I've known, Greg
is the one guy who didn't play or coach who
has the knowledge equal to somebody who played or coached.
(03:57):
I mean, he has a totally intricate knowledge of all
the schemes. There's nobody else that I've ever heard as
an analyst anywhere, locally, nationally, anywhere the nose football to Uh,
as a guy who didn't play like Greg, he's the
equal to me of any coach or players. So I've
always after that. I think I'm done off a few guys.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, here's here's our format today. And like I said,
I I don't I'm I'm just here to to get
us in and out of a break. But I We've
got a couple of bullet points topics. But I know
what's going to happen because I do shows with these
two guys every week, and they're very similar in this regard.
I might think I might go one direction all of
a sudden. We zig when we zag, and zag when
(04:39):
we zig because I want their knowledge. I love learning
stuff every week. So to our listeners, I'm going to
start with a very basic topic and we'll just kind
of see where it goes from there. And UH and Greg,
I'll start with you. Just as we go into this
bye week for the Seahawks, are four and five just
a mid season evaluation of what you see on tape
from the Seattle Seahawks on offense and on defense.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Well, let's start with offense, and I think you know,
one of the things that I think consistently stands out,
and it showed up again in the last game numerous times,
was the O line play. To me, is just not
quite at the level you needed to be to run
a consistent offense, because we've seen games where they've truly
tried to run the ball, because there has to be
(05:21):
some commitment to the run game when your quarterbacks Gino
Smith and I like Gino and I think you does too,
but essentially he's a pocket quarterback and pocket quarterbacks need
to feel relatively secure. You can certainly talk about this
better than I haven't played the position and been there
and stood there. But Gino's a pocket quarterback and they're
all lined both in the run game and in terms
(05:43):
of protection. Has just struggled to the point where there's
limitations to what they can do offensively. And you know
they can hit some big plays, no question. I mean,
we saw what they did at the end of the
first half, for instance last week against the Rams, where
I think I think Gino had hundred yards of his
passing on what three plays at the end of the
first half, something like that. So they can hit some
(06:05):
big plays here and there, and obviously metcast been at
the last couple of weeks. But I think the run
game element, to me, is probably one of the concerning
elements because it's not a function of the back. Kenneth
Walker has definite traits to be a lead back in
this league, but I would say that that's that's been
an issue on offense. Defensively, I think you could go
(06:28):
in multiple places here and you know, clearly, I think,
you know, with what with the some of the injuries
they've had and players that haven't been able to play.
You know, we just haven't seen enough of Byron Murphy,
who's now back, because I loved him coming out of Texas,
and you know, he missed a number of games.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
I think that they try to create pressure with their fronts.
You know, they line up with what a lot of
teams do and what we call loaded fronts with three
three D linemen to one side of the offensive center,
and they stun a lot off that that's what they do.
I think they're looking for edge rushers who can really
become really good players. Hall is sort of moving in
(07:11):
that direction. Jones continues to get significant snaps as an
edge rusher. I don't know if they want him out
there in an ideal world, because I think he could
be really good as kind of a three technique, four
eye rusher if you had really good edge ruffer rushers. Obviously,
Mafi is a guy they'd like to really become that
guy as well. So I think that, you know, they've
(07:33):
had some issue there and they've lost some really good
players on defense. I really liked Rashawn Jenkins a lot
when they signed him. I thought, within the context of
McDonald's system, and Ian we talked about this, he's not
the same player that Kyle Hamilton is, so I all
want people to think that, but I thought that just
in terms of how he could be deployed in a
(07:53):
make McDonald's system, it could be similar to how he
deployed Kyle Hamilton with the Ravens. But you know, he's
been injured, so we really haven't gotten to see that.
I know I've said a lot, probably too much, so
you guys can jump in greg a lot to unpack there.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
So let's let's go back to the offensive line. So
it's easy for me to put on my Seak hat
because I wear it all the time. I'm a Seattle line, right.
I want you, you and me, we're just having a beer.
You're a Seak fan, Okay, so we're talking about how
the hell do we fix this offensive line.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Let me start with Charles Cross there for a second,
if we can, Greg, because you haven't always been the
biggest fan of Charles Cross, right, Well, you.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Use back, but I mean I think I think Charles
Cross it's not a matter.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
It's funny the way you worded that, because you know,
obviously being on Twitter, people think you always have an
agenda when you talk. It's not a matter of being
a biggest fan or not being a biggest fan. I
don't think Charles Cross has consistently played to the level
that they would have hoped given that he was a
top ten pick. Now, he's not a bad player. It's
not as if he needs to be replaced and he's
not going to be right. But I think that you know, ideally,
(08:56):
when they drafted Cross and you you feel free to
jump in here. You know you're expecting him to be
at the and I hate to say this, but this
is what you're expecting in the same conversations with the Tunsils,
the Williams players of that ILK. Okay, now I know
Trent Williams will be a first ballot Hall of Famer,
but you're expecting Cross. Let's put it this way. I've
spoken to a lot of coaches and the first thing
(09:18):
they tell me when they talk about tackles in this game,
they said, they have to be able to pass protect
one on one on third down. If you don't feel
they can do that at a high level, then in
this league, they're not high level offensive tackles, particularly on
the left side.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And that's when we lost you. We lost you when
you said, Charles Cross, you and you're left right.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yeah, And you know, Greg, what I look at what
Charles Cross that kind of frustrates me is that while
there's oftentimes where he prevents his man from getting a
sack or even a pressure, he retreats too far into
the backfield winning makes and and you know, I remember
Howard Mudd having a lot of conversations with legendary offensive
line coach. He was the line coach for Peyton Manning
(09:57):
as you remember kept keeping up pate Man, and he
was a big advocate for a jump a jump set.
You know, just like to go laterally and to take
on that combat closer to the line of scrimmage because
you don't want to let a superior athlete get ahead
of steam. Now, not every offensive line adopts to that philosophy.
If you if you miss him, you might be more
likely to the quick pressure. But but I I just
(10:21):
every time I watch Charles Cross and he's in the
lap of Gino Smith, even though he's between Gino Smith
and the defensive end, I just say, you're creating mayhem
for for Gino even though he's not getna the sack.
So you know that that, I presume you're not in
your head that that's one of the beefs you have
(10:41):
right is where is he taking on that combat? He
may be winning it, but it's too deep and too close.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
I feel it's funny you say that because I've had
the opportunity of the last couple of years to go
to the O line masterminds in Frisco, Texas with Duke
Mannyweather Jeff Schwartz kind of run up. But there's offensive
linemen who are players, present players, former players, Hall of
famers like Steve Hutchinson's there. I've gotten to know him
really well. And all these guys talk about is speed
to power. You've got to be able to set your
(11:10):
house and control speed to power. And I agree with you.
You played the position, so you know, when there are
bodies around you, it's just tougher to play. And I
think he does hold up, but he holds up too
close to the quarterback, and I agree that that's a problem.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yeah, Greg cosel with us, and Greg, let's just stay
on the offensive line for one more so. So now
you're you're wearing that seaawk really well. Looks good on you.
So now let's just say kind of bigger picture because
it's bye week, it's a chance to view things from
thirty thousand feet. What do we think about the seahawks
(11:48):
prospects for fixing this offensive line? You remember, you know,
Abe Lucas is going to come back the right tackle
and we'll see what's going on there. But you know,
in twenty twenty one, after the Chiefs lost that Super
Bowl the Buccaneers thirty eight to nine, and Mahomes was
running around and pressured and sacked, and in one off
season they acquired a Joe Toney that the offensive left
(12:12):
guard from the Patriots. They drafted Creed Humphrey the center
in the second round, and they got lucky with a
sixth rounder and Tray Smith their right ger. Those guys
have been playing now for four straight years in the
middle of a really good offensive line for the Chiefs.
They were able to do the bulk of the work
in one off season. If you're just advising John Snyder
(12:34):
or what do we think here, how fast can we
do it? What's the priority? What do you think needs
to be replaced to quitness offensive lineup stuff? You know, it's.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
Interesting you say that because I don't think they've not
addressed it, for instance. And again it depends on what
you think address means. I mean, obviously, if you're drafting
a guy in the first round, you think you're addressing
it in big time. But they did draft Bradford out
of LSU, and I remember studying him coming out of LSU,
and he was a young kid who was very raw
in terms of how he played hand usage, but a
(13:05):
big kid with movement. Now he has struggled. Okay, so
do we still think he has a chance that that's
the question I guess I can't answer.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I don't have you think, like what's in your gut? Now?
What do you think if you want him to be
a right guard next year or not? Probably not okay?
But they also.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Well, and now Haynes is a rookie from Connecticut, another
guy that I really liked his tape much more so
than Bradford. I really liked Haynes's tape coming out and
for whatever reason, and only the coaching staff could address this.
But he's not starting, so they obviously think Bradford's better.
So I don't know if that means what that means
for Haines. Is Haines just a guy because he played
a Connecticut and not in a Power of five school
(13:48):
that needs more time? That I can't answer you, But
I mean I really liked him coming out, and I
think they truly expected him to be a starting guard.
I would assume probably by now in the season. Well
see what happens after the bye. But I think the
book is out on him. I don't think you can
you can make a definitive judgment just yet on Haines.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
What do you think? Uh, well, I'm a little biased
because he was my son's roommate in college. So I
got my fingers crossed from I know, let's jump the
left guard. That's an easy one. I know he's not
coming back next year. I'm a little cotter Williams the center.
I'm a little bit uh on the on the on
the fence on him because I don't know how much
(14:29):
of his uh inefficiencies has to do with how late
he joined both mentally running off that knee. So so
I could I could see Connor Williams being your our
center next year here, or I could see a replacement there.
I probably need to see more. What do you think
about those?
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I mean, all I can tell you is up to
this point film wise, I don't think he's been good
enough where you could say he's your starting center. Now again,
there's you know, half the season to go. Your point
about him just getting here late is is a point
you never know. Offensive line, as you well know, is
about cohesion, working together that that can take time. It
certainly didn't help, but they felt it was the best
(15:09):
way to go. That they were rotating Bradford Haynes until
what this past week or one week prior. I forget exactly,
but that certainly doesn't help when you're looking for cohesion
in your offensive line. Something else I really got drilled
into me when I was at the online Masterminds by
the Steve Hutchinsons of the world that it's all Robbie Tobek.
You probably know him as well. You know all those
guys talking about how it's all about working together and
(15:32):
you've got to do everything together, and you've got to
play together every snap, snap after snap after snap. So
literally you know these guys better than you know your spouse,
you know, and you know when you're rotating guys, it
doesn't work out that way.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, Greg co sales with us, and we're just chopping
it up like we usually do it. And so let's
stay on the offense a little bit here. And look,
I think Kenneth Walker, that's a short discussion. You and
I both agree. The dude's elite. If you give him space,
the guy can play, Like is there any is there anything?
I think the only question is is he like you know,
(16:08):
top three in the league, top five types seven to eight,
like like just kind of you watch a lot of halfbacks. Yeah,
if you had to just say, I'm going to hand it,
do the rock. He's gonna get yards, all other things
being equal, lot types of lines. Where do you think
you ranked Knut.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
I'm not a great list guy, you, but he's He's
a true feature back in this league. He's not an
issue at all. There's no concerns with him. I think
he can get hard yards and I think he can
take it to the house. So he's not an issue
at all. You're not looking to replace Kenneth Walker.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
You know.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
The question is with backs like that, how many snaps
are they going to play? And how important it is
is it to have a second back, But Kenneth Walker
is your feature back, and that's not an issue at all.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Okay, so I know we're gonna finish with Genoly.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Actually, he let me do thist me, let me do this.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I want because there's one topic I really want to
hit on, and I have a feeling it's going to
take longer than the six minutes I have in this
segment because and that that's and that topic I'll just
give it's two letters, it's D and K, and I
want to do that after a break here in a
few minutes. Let's just talk Geno real quick. You how
do you want to set this up with you? You
go ahead and set it up with Greg.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Well, look, I think it's good to have Greg's perspective.
I mean, my perspective is one who really really analyzes.
But I think Greg's perspective is phenomenal because he does
a hell of a lot of analyzing the Geno just
because he analyze all quarterbacks. But but, but, okay, now
remember now you're still wearing that seahawk lid here, Greg,
we do we want him to be the quarterback next year?
(17:40):
I know you're going to say, well, we got to
see another half of the season of football. But for
the purpose of our conversation, do you want Greg? Do
you want him to be that our quarterback next year?
Let me let me answer it this way. I don't
think you need to see more of Gino. You know
what he is.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Okay, I don't think I've got a mystery is to
what kind of place Geno Smith is. The question you're asking, though,
is a different question because quarterbacks, you as you know,
you've been around great ones. They don't fall out of
the sky. So I know there's a lot of you know,
fan bases in the NFL that always say oh, well,
you know we need another quarterback. Well, they don't fall
out of the sky. So the question is you can
(18:18):
line up and you can play, and you can win
with Geno Smith. Now, having said that, we're not we're
certainly not putting Gino Smith in the conversation with the Mahomes,
the Allens, the Burrows, the Herbert's, you know, Lamar's, he's
not in that conversation. But he's a certain kind of quarterback.
He's a pocket quarterback. He needs to be protected, he
needs weapons, he needs a multi dimensional offense. But he
(18:39):
can make every throw. He has enough mobility to be
able to move and if needed, run for a first down.
He's certainly not a creator, But I've always believed that
if you can play the position properly from the pocket
and have just enough functional mobility, you don't necessarily need
to be a creator. Now, some of that is a
function of your on line, which we've already been through,
(19:00):
but you can line up and play with Gino. He
can throw the ball really well. He's an aggressive thrower.
I like the fact that he that he makes risky
throws because in this league you have to make risky
throws at times. But I don't have a problem with
Gino Smith. You know, we know what he is. I mean,
unless you see it differently, you know, unless you feel
you're drafting a guy high that is going to be
(19:22):
a stud. I don't see why Gino Smith should not
be the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah, well, I think it's gonna be. I think it
would be hard to replace him. I think that he
is I've said in the offseason, Greg, I don't know
that I've seen a lot of evidence to change my mind.
I think he's just kind of an average quarterback. Now,
average sounds like a pejorative, yeah, but average is pretty
good if you're one of the teams that are, you know,
(19:51):
below average and beyond if you're if you're let's say
your quarterback is ranked eighteenth or nineteenth in the league
to thirty second. If you're one of those you know,
fan bases with with one of those fourteen quarterbacks, you're
loving Gino Smith. I mean, you know, it really comes
down can you win a super Bowl with Gino? Let's say, well, yeah,
I think you can win a super Bowl with just
(20:11):
about anybody. If you have a great enough team around
you get the greatest show on turf on offense, and
you have the Baltimore Ravens two thousand defense or or
the Legion of Boom. A lot of quarterbacks can win
a Super Bowl. The question is reasonably uh. And then
as you point out, what's the cost of trying to
replace it? And so I think that that really what what?
(20:33):
What work? That we're kind of concluding, Hey, let's shore
up the offensive line. We know he has targets to
Ian's question about the DK. Let's let's transition to that.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Let me let me, let me, let me table that
just for a second. Let me table that for saying,
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna we get this actually a
good time. We can take a quick break, We'll come
right back. And I want to get to that because
that's it. And I've talked about this with Greg and Hugh,
and Hugh knows the temperature here in this town.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
People.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
The DK for whatever reason, is somewhat of a lightning rod.
So let's get to that, take a quick break, come
back more, Hugh and Greg. Does it get any better
for a football fan on a Friday? The answer, and
I don't need tape to tell me this, the answer
is no. It doesn't get any better than having these
two guys on mornan Come nine three point three KJFM.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Now back to the Washington State Beep Commissions Football Friday
with the Infernets on your home for the NFL Sports
Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
All right, welcome back. We're continuing big thanks to Seattle Sider.
Go check out the tap room in between First Avenue
South East Marginalway. We got the pumpkin spice sider right now. Fantastic,
not too sweet, perfect for the holidays. So much more
down there at Seattle Cider. Thanks, and then look for
at your local grocery stores. All right, Hugh, I'll let
you set this up a little bit better with with
Greg And I told you guys, this would go in
(21:52):
to a direction I wasn't even thinking of. But I
really want to get both of your perspectives and let
both of you articulate the DK Metcalf. People still want
to talk about trading him, potentially trading him should the
Seahawks move him in the off season. Is he worth
a big time contract extension? Hugh, you can kind of
explain a little bit more about that and also what
people are saying here and how you approach it and
(22:14):
and let Greg react.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Yeah. You know, look, I think Greg knows enough of
the essential elements of the of the debate if there's
a debate, But I don't want to influence him Ian,
So I'm gonna I'm gonna just kind of banner back
and forth with Greg here the way we would when
we have our cell phone conversation. So Greg, just I'm
gonna just throw it open to you. Your take. You're
(22:40):
as a Seahawks fan. Now there's been discussion of DK,
Hey do you want to you know, if you have
to pay him a lot of money next year? Like
where do you sit on the DK Metcalf? Well, I just.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Want to say one thing just to finish up our
geno conversation. Sure too, That that I think is interesting.
You know, when Shane Waldron was there, they were a heavy,
multiple tight end offense, and when you play with multiple
tight ends two and three tight ends, you can run
certain things that really help a quarterback. Now they've evolved
this year under a new coordinator, Ryan Grubb. They're a
(23:14):
heavy eleven personnel offense with three wide and that changes
things for a quarterback. So again, you know, I think
there's some things going on there that on a day
to day basis, obviously I'm not there you you're probably
closer to that. That changes things for a quarterback anyway,
Just great on that point. First of all, they were
a heavy twelve and thirteen personnel team, more in twenty
(23:37):
twenty two than twenty twenty three, right, Right.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
And then the other part of it is, as you
accurately point out, they've they've gravitated far more to eleven personnel.
But it's an eleven personnel league, right, will you be
a pretty single team other than maybe the Ravens, no
surprize you you know, the Chiefs play almost forty five
percent of their offensive snaps at are multiple tight ends.
I mean, it's it's actually draptical eleven more than any though, right.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
No, I mean they a lot of teams are gravitating
because of the nature of tight ends that the colleges
are giving. All right, A lot of teams are now
playing twelve personnel because it makes the defense have to
defense have to decide how they want to play it,
particularly when you have you know, and again I'm using
an extreme case because he's super athletic, but the Brock
(24:24):
Bower types of the world. Those guys can line up
anywhere and they're essentially wide receivers. So anyway, but that's
a whole different converstion. Let's go to DK DK. What
do you want to do with DK? I mean, you know,
you're dealing with a guy that's got pretty high level trades.
He's a vertical dimension. There's not a ton of vertical dimensions.
Just because a guy can run four, three, five doesn't
(24:46):
make him a vertical dimension. He's definitely a vertical dimension.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Stop right there, Greg Stoft right there explains for our listeners.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Why, like, just because like you see guys d Skris
comes out of out of college, for example, he's running
a four to two whatever the hell it is, and
John Ross out in Washington set the record so fast,
doesn't mean you can run vertical?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
No?
Speaker 5 (25:05):
I mean just because you know it's not just it's
not a track event. I mean, I've seen Xavier Worthy
of the Chiefs run vertical routes and guys run right
with them because it's not a track event. You know,
it's a football event. You know, So just because you
can run fast doesn't mean you're you know, you run
by corners, and as you know, is you don't see
a ton in the league of guys who just run
(25:27):
by people. You know, that's not the way the league works.
We were dealing with high level athletes at both wide
receiver and corner. But DK is big, and see the
size is a big factor. And I learned this years
ago watching receivers coming out of college, when I had
to learn that when a guy's six two sixty three
sixty four stride length is a big deal. One guy
(25:48):
that really made me aware of that was Randy Moss.
I mean, he'd go in motion z emotion a lot,
and he'd take three steps and all of a sudden,
who's fifteen yards down the field. You know, DK Metcalf
is a legit six four are so stride length is
a trait, so he can get on top of corners quickly,
and he can force corners to have to play differently.
(26:09):
So you know, it's always easy because people probably don't
see him rightly or wrongly, and I don't, so I'm
not gonna sit here and act like I do. You know,
to me, he's not in the Jefferson Chase category, but
I think he's a really good player and I don't
think players like that. Again, there's always a ton of receivers,
so people probably think you can replace receivers, but there's
(26:30):
not a lot of six four to two hundred and
thirty pounds receivers like that. So you know, you have
to make that's a big decision. You got to decide
who am I replacing DK Metcalf with. You know, there's
not a lot of guys quite like that.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Well, I would go so far as to say that
there's nobody like that, because you know, as you said,
the six ' three the two twenty five, not only
did he run the fastest forty times for anybody over
to twenty five, he ran the fastest ten yard split
the combine one point four to five. His ten yard
split is faster than any player had any position at
(27:06):
any size. And that shows up on tape. See, I'm
not just in love with the guy because he's big,
and he looks great without a shirt on, and he
looks like he could win a uh some kind of
uh bodybuilding contest. What I see is is that that
one point four or five that shows up on tape,
he has short area burst right and and and I'll
(27:29):
say this, great, you know this Cover six, Ian is
a coverage where they roll cover two to one side
and then they play quarters to the other. The Seahawks.
This is an objective fact, indisputable. The Seahawks are number
one in the NFL at drawing the percentage of coverage.
Cover six teams roll on on DK metcalfs because they're
scared hell of of that vertical presence and they rotate
(27:53):
the top corner every week. Hats or tan Jalen Ramsey
Gonzalez UH twenty three from the Detroit who came Carlton
Davis Like every week he gets the number one guy
traveled with him if they're a traveling team, And so
I would just say, Greg, if you let him walk
or you trade him. Now, all of a sudden, a
(28:16):
player like him bolts to your number one need on
your football team, and then you're just hoping to replace
him with a guy and hope he's seventy eight of
DK metcalf You already got a superstar in the building.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
And that's a great point too, Ian, because the thing
is we talked about some of the issues. You talked
about the all line obviously, so now you have some
areas you have to address, and you have a receiver
like DK Metcalf, you don't want to have to address
that position because you know, you can't be in a
situation where you have to address so many positions in
one season. You always have to address certain positions. But
(28:48):
but DK Metcalf is a really good receiver, and you know,
I just don't think you're gonna find many guys like him.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Now.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
I think you probably likes him a little better.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Than I do.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
But I'm not saying that he's not a great receiver.
I think he's you know, I think you probably thinks
and I would probably disagree a little.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
I don't think.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
He's as you know, as shifty, as loose hipped as
some other receivers, but I don't think that prevents him
from being a really good player.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
You know, Greg and great quot seal with this, let
me clarify my thoughts on it. Certainly, it would be
like if you said, Okay, Shaquille O'Neill doesn't have the
feed of a team olage, right, Okay, we know that,
but then Shaquille O'Neill has a power facet to his
game that Elijah Won doesn't happen.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, yeah, And I think and I think one of
the things too. Let's do this.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Will take a quick break here because I want to
come back. The DK Metcalf conversation a good place to
kind of to take one final break. Will come back.
We have a short final segment coming up next. What we're
going to do is this and and we're gonna just
kind of throw it open. Final thoughts from each Hue
and from Greg. I probably do want to touch a
little bit more on the defense and what we can expect.
That will take a quick break, come back with more.
Nine three point three KTERFM.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Now back to the Washington State BEEP Commissions Football Friday
with the Infernets on your home for the NFL Sports
Radio ninety three point three k j R FM.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
All right back with you one more segment. We could
probably go another two hours. I'll let those guys have
that conversation off the air on their phone calls, and
we will try to do this again maybe at the
end of the season. If these guys are both wlowing
this is I'm telling you. I keep looking at Jessam
and we're looking at each other, smiling in our head,
going this is this is awesome, this is this is
a ton of fun, and I know our listeners are
enjoying it too. We've talked just very very quickly, Hugh again,
(30:45):
to wrap up DK, you get rid of DK. That
doesn't just affect you today, but it also affects JSN.
What you're gonna do with Lockett, how the offense looks
and you have to replace them?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Is that?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Am I correct assessing that? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (30:57):
That's it? And I agree with Greg. Look if you
put on the tape and you say, can DK have
all the the nuance of a Justin Jefferson his fluidity
in his routes where a Devonte Adams No, I would.
I would say, but DK's pretty damn good. Yeah. And
then when you consider all the other fit the speed
and the and the power and the size, you know that.
(31:19):
That's why I say, Okay, the whole package is a
guy I don't want to get rid of. He's gonna
get market money. I'm gonna pay him that market money.
The last thing I'm doing is getting rid of DK Metcalf, So, Greg,
I see you doing that.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
I would agree with that as a final point for sure.
And by the way, I love the basketball reference.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Yeah right, So Greg, let's talk pop up over the defense.
So Mike McDonald came over. You know, his first half
a year at Baltimore, the Ravens were about seventeenth, eighteenth,
and nineteenth, and the important stats the last half of
the twenty twenty two season number one in the NFL.
We don't know if to see ours are gonna do that.
(31:58):
And then of course last year number one in points,
fewest points allowed, turnovers, and sacks. So we know he
has the resume. Does he have the parts is the question.
I think I'll see it. How much of the defensive
parts that he needs are on the roster, on the tape,
what you're watching, and what are the areas that you
think need to be replaced going forward? I'm talking like
(32:20):
twenty twenty five and beyond. I got my ideas, but
you I want to hear your objective ideas. First.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, I think that he certainly doesn't have the pieces
he had in Baltimore. Don't forget he had Smith and
Queen at linebacker. I mean, that's that's as good a group,
good a duo as you could find in the league.
And right now, I mean, obviously they just traded for
Ernest Jones, a player I really like but he just
got there. So let's you know again, I'm gonna whatever
I say is a tape study point, nothing nothing more,
(32:49):
nothing less.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
You know.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
I saw Torrel Dotson play in Buffalo for years and
he was a backup linebacker, and quite frankly, I thought
that that's what he was. And obviously the Seahawks personnel
sty thought differently of him. They brought him in to
be a starter, and I'm not sure he quite fits
that level that you need for, you know, to be
a starter and every down player. So he certainly doesn't
(33:12):
fit the Smith Queen mold. So that's one thing. So
the other thing is they got phenomenal, phenomenal play last
year from an inside defensive tackles in Baltimore. Matabuque was
as good a d tackle as there was in the league.
They drafted Byron Murphy ideally to become somewhat like that guy,
and I think he can become like that. But he's
(33:34):
been hurt and we'll see where he goes.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
Leonard Williams, to me, has always been a very fascinating player. Now,
obviously he's been with a number of teams. I remember
when he came out of USC you can line him
up anywhere.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
He can play on the outside, he can play on
the inside. I always felt he shows flashes of being great,
but he hasn't been great as a player overall. But
there's flashes that always make you think this guy's should
be absolutely special. I mean, he was a top five
or six pick when he came out. So I think
there's pieces, but I don't think there's enough pieces right
(34:09):
now for this defense from a personnel standpoint, to be
a great defense.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
All right, we got about three minutes before we run
out of our little taping. Here, go ahead, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
So first of all, when he when Greg, when you
said Dodson to me, if there's three guys on that team,
I'm talking offense and defense that to replace the most
most urgently, I would say the two guards on offense
and Dodson I just don't I agree. Are like, he
is not your starting linebacker in the McDonald dell. I
(34:41):
want to ask you about Devin withersbil because yeah, I
I watch him in the slot and and you know
he's he's he's a ferocious competitor and uh, you know
there and and he'll throw his body in there sometimes
he gets washed up in the physicality, you know, when
it's hard to play when when there big tight ends
and big receivers blocking them in there. Have you ever
(35:03):
in the tape study thought would it be better to
just put him out and be a lockdown corner and
just keep him at corner or do you still like
the idea of playing them at nickel and corner and
bouncing him around?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
What?
Speaker 4 (35:16):
What? What? What's your opinion on how they use it.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
That's a great point, because you know, because of his
toughness and competitiveness, everybody just you know, thought slot because
you know he's competitive and he likes to play that way.
I would ultimately like to see Witherspoon play on the outside.
I think that's you know, we did a lot of
that in college. I think he's a really good man
to man defender on the outside. Obviously, the slot is
(35:40):
an important position, but I think with Woolen and Witherspoon
on the outside, you'd have two really good outside corners.
Right now, I think they're struggling a little bit to
figure out who the outside corner would be when Witherspoon's
in the slot. So I would ultimately like to see
him stay on the outside.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
All right, well, great stuff. Listen, that's it. That's all
we got time for today. Greg and I and I
know we could go on and on and on. We
will do this if you're willing at the end of
the year. I know my guy Hugh is as well.
Thank you so sure, yeah sure, thank you so much.
Did you ever break down the humill tape by the
way when he was playing?
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Well, I was only five years old, Dan, so I.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Don't remember that.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
You are a absolute beauty. All right, Well, we got
seahawks and forty nine ers next week. You and I'll
break that down just the two of us next Friday.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
All right, that's good, loved it.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Thanks, that was a ton of fun. That is Greg
CoA sell. We'll take a break, big thanks as well.
The Seattle Sider Seattle Sider down the tap room is
down right between East Marginal Way, First Avenue South and
basically in South Soto or North Georgetown, however you want
to say it right by the Haunted House down there.
Go check it out. Look for your local grocery stores,
especially this time of the year. Some of the festive
flavors including pumpkins, spice, and so much more we'll take
(36:49):
a break, come back. Rob rang joins us next, talking
college football weekend and how it relates to the draft
on ninety three point three KJRFM
No from the Star Rentals Sports to us your ninety
three point three KJRFMS sports headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Headlines are brought to you by Frostbrew Cores Light Choose
Chill on this Washington State Beef Commission Football Friday, Cracking
back at home Tonight. Next six games six game homestam
Vegas First up, six thirty pre game seven o'clock drop
of the puck. Captain'll be here Section twenty the main concourse.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Go see him.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'll be hanging out doing the pregame show last night
Thursday Night Football. Incredible game. Ravens hold on to win
thirty five thirty four win. Cincinnati went for the win.
Kind of love that though, go for the win? Why
not fall up?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Just short?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Huskies number six penn State Tomorrow, Beaver Stadium's a whiteout game.
Five o'clock kickoff. Softing the Hawks gets you ready at
one o'clock. Softy is in Pennsylvania. He'll be doing his
show there starting at three o'clock this afternoon. Of course,
you can hear the game right here on niney three
point three kJ RFM. Washington State off of bye Utah
State Tomorrow, Martin Stadium, six thirty kickoff Cougs are seven
to one. Try to run the table and see what
(00:53):
happens if they get to eleven to one. On the season,
Husky Basketball on the Road takes on Nevada tomorrow's seven o'clock.
You can hear that game will run nine fifty on
the AA Cougar basketball team host Bradley tonight at Besa Coliseum.
Gotta win that one. Got to win that one. Why
it's a quad four game. Do not lose that game.
Do not lose it. You'd have women's basketball smashed Pacific
(01:13):
eighty one fifty yesterday. The final score there Hugh Millen,
Greg co Cell And I'm gonna tell you right now
this is simple. We taped this earlier and I told
those two guys, you guys just talked football. I'm gonna
get the hell out of your way. Seahawks fans, Football fans,
you don't want to miss this.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It's time for Egan's weekly visit with NFL Films Greg
Cosl brought to you by Seattle Cider Company on your
home for the twelfth Man and the NFL Sports Radio
ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
All right, here we go, Welcome back in sports radio.
Ninety three point three KJFM on a Friday, and yes,
Seattle Cider brings us Greg co sell every Friday at
this time. We been doing this for well over a decade,
and Greg will break down the Seahawks upcoming opponent. Well,
there is no opponent this week, as we know, el
Seahawks on a bye. We have been talking about this
is how radio works. We have great ideas, we talk
(02:06):
about them, and they never ever ever get fulfilled and
get taken all the way to the finish line. Damn it,
we did it this time. I've been talking about this
for at least two or three years with both of
these guys separately, and we have them here today. I
can't even tell you how excited I am about this.
Greg Cosella's normal segment brought to you by Seattle Cider
and he's joined by our guy, Hugh Millen. I don't
(02:29):
know what we want to call this, just the football gurus,
the great minds of the game, whatever we want to
call this segment, but this is going to be basically,
we're going to talk football with two guys that know
it and talk about it with each other sometimes as well.
For the next couple segments, I'm loving doing this.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Greg. How are you today?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Doing great?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Ian?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
It's another Friday. You know. The thing is I don't
get a.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Buye yes, I know you don't. I know you don't, Hueie.
Great to have you on here.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And this is fun because I'm actually haping this on
a zoom, so like see and we can all see
each other. Hugh, give me the background real quick, because
you've said this before. When I do my show with Greg,
you'll text me and go, Yeah, I just talked to
Greg about that yesterday. You guys actually talked quite often,
don't you about football?
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Yeah, we do a fair amount. And we were also
on the thirty third team. It's kind of a think tank,
as it were. And Greg and I Greg, we met
what about twenty five years ago, A long time I was. Yeah,
I was in the bowels of the of the ESPN
basement breaking down tape with you Jaworski and Merrill Hodge. Yeah.
(03:37):
And so we've been talking for twenty five years. And
I've said it publicly. I don't want to embarrass Greg,
but of all the people that I've I've known, Greg
is the one guy who didn't play or coach who
has the knowledge equal to somebody who played or coached.
(03:57):
I mean, he has a totally intricate knowledge of all
the schemes. There's nobody else that I've ever heard as
an analyst anywhere, locally, nationally, anywhere the nose football to Uh,
as a guy who didn't play like Greg, he's the
equal to me of any coach or players. So I've
always after that. I think I'm done off a few guys.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, here's here's our format today. And like I said,
I I don't I'm I'm just here to to get
us in and out of a break. But I We've
got a couple of bullet points topics. But I know
what's going to happen because I do shows with these
two guys every week, and they're very similar in this regard.
I might think I might go one direction all of
a sudden. We zig when we zag, and zag when
(04:39):
we zig because I want their knowledge. I love learning
stuff every week. So to our listeners, I'm going to
start with a very basic topic and we'll just kind
of see where it goes from there. And UH and Greg,
I'll start with you. Just as we go into this
bye week for the Seahawks, are four and five just
a mid season evaluation of what you see on tape
from the Seattle Seahawks on offense and on defense.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Well, let's start with offense, and I think you know,
one of the things that I think consistently stands out,
and it showed up again in the last game numerous times,
was the O line play. To me, is just not
quite at the level you needed to be to run
a consistent offense, because we've seen games where they've truly
tried to run the ball, because there has to be
(05:21):
some commitment to the run game when your quarterbacks Gino
Smith and I like Gino and I think you does too,
but essentially he's a pocket quarterback and pocket quarterbacks need
to feel relatively secure. You can certainly talk about this
better than I haven't played the position and been there
and stood there. But Gino's a pocket quarterback and they're
all lined both in the run game and in terms
(05:43):
of protection. Has just struggled to the point where there's
limitations to what they can do offensively. And you know
they can hit some big plays, no question. I mean,
we saw what they did at the end of the
first half, for instance last week against the Rams, where
I think I think Gino had hundred yards of his
passing on what three plays at the end of the
first half, something like that. So they can hit some
(06:05):
big plays here and there, and obviously metcast been at
the last couple of weeks. But I think the run
game element, to me, is probably one of the concerning
elements because it's not a function of the back. Kenneth
Walker has definite traits to be a lead back in
this league, but I would say that that's that's been
an issue on offense. Defensively, I think you could go
(06:28):
in multiple places here and you know, clearly, I think,
you know, with what with the some of the injuries
they've had and players that haven't been able to play.
You know, we just haven't seen enough of Byron Murphy,
who's now back, because I loved him coming out of Texas,
and you know, he missed a number of games.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
I think that they try to create pressure with their fronts.
You know, they line up with what a lot of
teams do and what we call loaded fronts with three
three D linemen to one side of the offensive center,
and they stun a lot off that that's what they do.
I think they're looking for edge rushers who can really
become really good players. Hall is sort of moving in
(07:11):
that direction. Jones continues to get significant snaps as an
edge rusher. I don't know if they want him out
there in an ideal world, because I think he could
be really good as kind of a three technique, four
eye rusher if you had really good edge ruffer rushers. Obviously,
Mafi is a guy they'd like to really become that
guy as well. So I think that, you know, they've
(07:33):
had some issue there and they've lost some really good
players on defense. I really liked Rashawn Jenkins a lot
when they signed him. I thought, within the context of
McDonald's system, and Ian we talked about this, he's not
the same player that Kyle Hamilton is, so I all
want people to think that, but I thought that just
in terms of how he could be deployed in a
(07:53):
make McDonald's system, it could be similar to how he
deployed Kyle Hamilton with the Ravens. But you know, he's
been injured, so we really haven't gotten to see that.
I know I've said a lot, probably too much, so
you guys can jump in greg a lot to unpack there.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
So let's let's go back to the offensive line. So
it's easy for me to put on my Seak hat
because I wear it all the time. I'm a Seattle line, right.
I want you, you and me, we're just having a beer.
You're a Seak fan, Okay, so we're talking about how
the hell do we fix this offensive line.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Let me start with Charles Cross there for a second,
if we can, Greg, because you haven't always been the
biggest fan of Charles Cross, right, Well, you.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Use back, but I mean I think I think Charles
Cross it's not a matter.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
It's funny the way you worded that, because you know,
obviously being on Twitter, people think you always have an
agenda when you talk. It's not a matter of being
a biggest fan or not being a biggest fan. I
don't think Charles Cross has consistently played to the level
that they would have hoped given that he was a
top ten pick. Now, he's not a bad player. It's
not as if he needs to be replaced and he's
not going to be right. But I think that you know, ideally,
(08:56):
when they drafted Cross and you you feel free to
jump in here. You know you're expecting him to be
at the and I hate to say this, but this
is what you're expecting in the same conversations with the Tunsils,
the Williams players of that ILK. Okay, now I know
Trent Williams will be a first ballot Hall of Famer,
but you're expecting Cross. Let's put it this way. I've
spoken to a lot of coaches and the first thing
(09:18):
they tell me when they talk about tackles in this game,
they said, they have to be able to pass protect
one on one on third down. If you don't feel
they can do that at a high level, then in
this league, they're not high level offensive tackles, particularly on
the left side.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And that's when we lost you. We lost you when
you said, Charles Cross, you and you're left right.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yeah, And you know, Greg, what I look at what
Charles Cross that kind of frustrates me is that while
there's oftentimes where he prevents his man from getting a
sack or even a pressure, he retreats too far into
the backfield winning makes and and you know, I remember
Howard Mudd having a lot of conversations with legendary offensive
line coach. He was the line coach for Peyton Manning
(09:57):
as you remember kept keeping up pate Man, and he
was a big advocate for a jump a jump set.
You know, just like to go laterally and to take
on that combat closer to the line of scrimmage because
you don't want to let a superior athlete get ahead
of steam. Now, not every offensive line adopts to that philosophy.
If you if you miss him, you might be more
likely to the quick pressure. But but I I just
(10:21):
every time I watch Charles Cross and he's in the
lap of Gino Smith, even though he's between Gino Smith
and the defensive end, I just say, you're creating mayhem
for for Gino even though he's not getna the sack.
So you know that that, I presume you're not in
your head that that's one of the beefs you have
(10:41):
right is where is he taking on that combat? He
may be winning it, but it's too deep and too close.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
I feel it's funny you say that because I've had
the opportunity of the last couple of years to go
to the O line masterminds in Frisco, Texas with Duke
Mannyweather Jeff Schwartz kind of run up. But there's offensive
linemen who are players, present players, former players, Hall of
famers like Steve Hutchinson's there. I've gotten to know him
really well. And all these guys talk about is speed
to power. You've got to be able to set your
(11:10):
house and control speed to power. And I agree with you.
You played the position, so you know, when there are
bodies around you, it's just tougher to play. And I
think he does hold up, but he holds up too
close to the quarterback, and I agree that that's a problem.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yeah, Greg cosel with us, and Greg, let's just stay
on the offensive line for one more so. So now
you're you're wearing that seaawk really well. Looks good on you.
So now let's just say kind of bigger picture because
it's bye week, it's a chance to view things from
thirty thousand feet. What do we think about the seahawks
(11:48):
prospects for fixing this offensive line? You remember, you know,
Abe Lucas is going to come back the right tackle
and we'll see what's going on there. But you know,
in twenty twenty one, after the Chiefs lost that Super
Bowl the Buccaneers thirty eight to nine, and Mahomes was
running around and pressured and sacked, and in one off
season they acquired a Joe Toney that the offensive left
(12:12):
guard from the Patriots. They drafted Creed Humphrey the center
in the second round, and they got lucky with a
sixth rounder and Tray Smith their right ger. Those guys
have been playing now for four straight years in the
middle of a really good offensive line for the Chiefs.
They were able to do the bulk of the work
in one off season. If you're just advising John Snyder
(12:34):
or what do we think here, how fast can we
do it? What's the priority? What do you think needs
to be replaced to quitness offensive lineup stuff? You know, it's.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
Interesting you say that because I don't think they've not
addressed it, for instance. And again it depends on what
you think address means. I mean, obviously, if you're drafting
a guy in the first round, you think you're addressing
it in big time. But they did draft Bradford out
of LSU, and I remember studying him coming out of LSU,
and he was a young kid who was very raw
in terms of how he played hand usage, but a
(13:05):
big kid with movement. Now he has struggled. Okay, so
do we still think he has a chance that that's
the question I guess I can't answer.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I don't have you think, like what's in your gut? Now?
What do you think if you want him to be
a right guard next year or not? Probably not okay?
But they also.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Well, and now Haynes is a rookie from Connecticut, another
guy that I really liked his tape much more so
than Bradford. I really liked Haynes's tape coming out and
for whatever reason, and only the coaching staff could address this.
But he's not starting, so they obviously think Bradford's better.
So I don't know if that means what that means
for Haines. Is Haines just a guy because he played
a Connecticut and not in a Power of five school
(13:48):
that needs more time? That I can't answer you, But
I mean I really liked him coming out, and I
think they truly expected him to be a starting guard.
I would assume probably by now in the season. Well
see what happens after the bye. But I think the
book is out on him. I don't think you can
you can make a definitive judgment just yet on Haines.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
What do you think? Uh, well, I'm a little biased
because he was my son's roommate in college. So I
got my fingers crossed from I know, let's jump the
left guard. That's an easy one. I know he's not
coming back next year. I'm a little cotter Williams the center.
I'm a little bit uh on the on the on
the fence on him because I don't know how much
(14:29):
of his uh inefficiencies has to do with how late
he joined both mentally running off that knee. So so
I could I could see Connor Williams being your our
center next year here, or I could see a replacement there.
I probably need to see more. What do you think
about those?
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I mean, all I can tell you is up to
this point film wise, I don't think he's been good
enough where you could say he's your starting center. Now again,
there's you know, half the season to go. Your point
about him just getting here late is is a point
you never know. Offensive line, as you well know, is
about cohesion, working together that that can take time. It
certainly didn't help, but they felt it was the best
(15:09):
way to go. That they were rotating Bradford Haynes until
what this past week or one week prior. I forget exactly,
but that certainly doesn't help when you're looking for cohesion
in your offensive line. Something else I really got drilled
into me when I was at the online Masterminds by
the Steve Hutchinsons of the world that it's all Robbie Tobek.
You probably know him as well. You know all those
guys talking about how it's all about working together and
(15:32):
you've got to do everything together, and you've got to
play together every snap, snap after snap after snap. So
literally you know these guys better than you know your spouse,
you know, and you know when you're rotating guys, it
doesn't work out that way.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, Greg co sales with us, and we're just chopping
it up like we usually do it. And so let's
stay on the offense a little bit here. And look,
I think Kenneth Walker, that's a short discussion. You and
I both agree. The dude's elite. If you give him space,
the guy can play, Like is there any is there anything?
I think the only question is is he like you know,
(16:08):
top three in the league, top five types seven to eight,
like like just kind of you watch a lot of halfbacks. Yeah,
if you had to just say, I'm going to hand it,
do the rock. He's gonna get yards, all other things
being equal, lot types of lines. Where do you think
you ranked Knut.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
I'm not a great list guy, you, but he's He's
a true feature back in this league. He's not an
issue at all. There's no concerns with him. I think
he can get hard yards and I think he can
take it to the house. So he's not an issue
at all. You're not looking to replace Kenneth Walker.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
You know.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
The question is with backs like that, how many snaps
are they going to play? And how important it is
is it to have a second back, But Kenneth Walker
is your feature back, and that's not an issue at all.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Okay, so I know we're gonna finish with Genoly.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Actually, he let me do thist me, let me do this.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I want because there's one topic I really want to
hit on, and I have a feeling it's going to
take longer than the six minutes I have in this
segment because and that that's and that topic I'll just
give it's two letters, it's D and K, and I
want to do that after a break here in a
few minutes. Let's just talk Geno real quick. You how
do you want to set this up with you? You
go ahead and set it up with Greg.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Well, look, I think it's good to have Greg's perspective.
I mean, my perspective is one who really really analyzes.
But I think Greg's perspective is phenomenal because he does
a hell of a lot of analyzing the Geno just
because he analyze all quarterbacks. But but, but, okay, now
remember now you're still wearing that seahawk lid here, Greg,
we do we want him to be the quarterback next year?
(17:40):
I know you're going to say, well, we got to
see another half of the season of football. But for
the purpose of our conversation, do you want Greg? Do
you want him to be that our quarterback next year?
Let me let me answer it this way. I don't
think you need to see more of Gino. You know
what he is.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Okay, I don't think I've got a mystery is to
what kind of place Geno Smith is. The question you're asking, though,
is a different question because quarterbacks, you as you know,
you've been around great ones. They don't fall out of
the sky. So I know there's a lot of you know,
fan bases in the NFL that always say oh, well,
you know we need another quarterback. Well, they don't fall
out of the sky. So the question is you can
(18:18):
line up and you can play, and you can win
with Geno Smith. Now, having said that, we're not we're
certainly not putting Gino Smith in the conversation with the Mahomes,
the Allens, the Burrows, the Herbert's, you know, Lamar's, he's
not in that conversation. But he's a certain kind of quarterback.
He's a pocket quarterback. He needs to be protected, he
needs weapons, he needs a multi dimensional offense. But he
(18:39):
can make every throw. He has enough mobility to be
able to move and if needed, run for a first down.
He's certainly not a creator, But I've always believed that
if you can play the position properly from the pocket
and have just enough functional mobility, you don't necessarily need
to be a creator. Now, some of that is a
function of your on line, which we've already been through,
(19:00):
but you can line up and play with Gino. He
can throw the ball really well. He's an aggressive thrower.
I like the fact that he that he makes risky
throws because in this league you have to make risky
throws at times. But I don't have a problem with
Gino Smith. You know, we know what he is. I mean,
unless you see it differently, you know, unless you feel
you're drafting a guy high that is going to be
(19:22):
a stud. I don't see why Gino Smith should not
be the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah, well, I think it's gonna be. I think it
would be hard to replace him. I think that he
is I've said in the offseason, Greg, I don't know
that I've seen a lot of evidence to change my mind.
I think he's just kind of an average quarterback. Now,
average sounds like a pejorative, yeah, but average is pretty
good if you're one of the teams that are, you know,
(19:51):
below average and beyond if you're if you're let's say
your quarterback is ranked eighteenth or nineteenth in the league
to thirty second. If you're one of those you know,
fan bases with with one of those fourteen quarterbacks, you're
loving Gino Smith. I mean, you know, it really comes
down can you win a super Bowl with Gino? Let's say, well, yeah,
I think you can win a super Bowl with just
(20:11):
about anybody. If you have a great enough team around
you get the greatest show on turf on offense, and
you have the Baltimore Ravens two thousand defense or or
the Legion of Boom. A lot of quarterbacks can win
a Super Bowl. The question is reasonably uh. And then
as you point out, what's the cost of trying to
replace it? And so I think that that really what what?
(20:33):
What work? That we're kind of concluding, Hey, let's shore
up the offensive line. We know he has targets to
Ian's question about the DK. Let's let's transition to that.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Let me let me, let me, let me table that
just for a second. Let me table that for saying,
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna we get this actually a
good time. We can take a quick break, We'll come
right back. And I want to get to that because
that's it. And I've talked about this with Greg and Hugh,
and Hugh knows the temperature here in this town.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
People.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
The DK for whatever reason, is somewhat of a lightning rod.
So let's get to that, take a quick break, come
back more, Hugh and Greg. Does it get any better
for a football fan on a Friday? The answer, and
I don't need tape to tell me this, the answer
is no. It doesn't get any better than having these
two guys on mornan Come nine three point three KJFM.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Now back to the Washington State Beep Commissions Football Friday
with the Infernets on your home for the NFL Sports
Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
All right, welcome back. We're continuing big thanks to Seattle Sider.
Go check out the tap room in between First Avenue
South East Marginalway. We got the pumpkin spice sider right now. Fantastic,
not too sweet, perfect for the holidays. So much more
down there at Seattle Cider. Thanks, and then look for
at your local grocery stores. All right, Hugh, I'll let
you set this up a little bit better with with
Greg And I told you guys, this would go in
(21:52):
to a direction I wasn't even thinking of. But I
really want to get both of your perspectives and let
both of you articulate the DK Metcalf. People still want
to talk about trading him, potentially trading him should the
Seahawks move him in the off season. Is he worth
a big time contract extension? Hugh, you can kind of
explain a little bit more about that and also what
people are saying here and how you approach it and
(22:14):
and let Greg react.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Yeah. You know, look, I think Greg knows enough of
the essential elements of the of the debate if there's
a debate, But I don't want to influence him Ian,
So I'm gonna I'm gonna just kind of banner back
and forth with Greg here the way we would when
we have our cell phone conversation. So Greg, just I'm
gonna just throw it open to you. Your take. You're
(22:40):
as a Seahawks fan. Now there's been discussion of DK,
Hey do you want to you know, if you have
to pay him a lot of money next year? Like
where do you sit on the DK Metcalf? Well, I just.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Want to say one thing just to finish up our
geno conversation. Sure too, That that I think is interesting.
You know, when Shane Waldron was there, they were a heavy,
multiple tight end offense, and when you play with multiple
tight ends two and three tight ends, you can run
certain things that really help a quarterback. Now they've evolved
this year under a new coordinator, Ryan Grubb. They're a
(23:14):
heavy eleven personnel offense with three wide and that changes
things for a quarterback. So again, you know, I think
there's some things going on there that on a day
to day basis, obviously I'm not there you you're probably
closer to that. That changes things for a quarterback anyway,
Just great on that point. First of all, they were
a heavy twelve and thirteen personnel team, more in twenty
(23:37):
twenty two than twenty twenty three, right, Right.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
And then the other part of it is, as you
accurately point out, they've they've gravitated far more to eleven personnel.
But it's an eleven personnel league, right, will you be
a pretty single team other than maybe the Ravens, no
surprize you you know, the Chiefs play almost forty five
percent of their offensive snaps at are multiple tight ends.
I mean, it's it's actually draptical eleven more than any though, right.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
No, I mean they a lot of teams are gravitating
because of the nature of tight ends that the colleges
are giving. All right, A lot of teams are now
playing twelve personnel because it makes the defense have to
defense have to decide how they want to play it,
particularly when you have you know, and again I'm using
an extreme case because he's super athletic, but the Brock
(24:24):
Bower types of the world. Those guys can line up
anywhere and they're essentially wide receivers. So anyway, but that's
a whole different converstion. Let's go to DK DK. What
do you want to do with DK? I mean, you know,
you're dealing with a guy that's got pretty high level trades.
He's a vertical dimension. There's not a ton of vertical dimensions.
Just because a guy can run four, three, five doesn't
(24:46):
make him a vertical dimension. He's definitely a vertical dimension.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Stop right there, Greg Stoft right there explains for our listeners.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Why, like, just because like you see guys d Skris
comes out of out of college, for example, he's running
a four to two whatever the hell it is, and
John Ross out in Washington set the record so fast,
doesn't mean you can run vertical?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
No?
Speaker 5 (25:05):
I mean just because you know it's not just it's
not a track event. I mean, I've seen Xavier Worthy
of the Chiefs run vertical routes and guys run right
with them because it's not a track event. You know,
it's a football event. You know, So just because you
can run fast doesn't mean you're you know, you run
by corners, and as you know, is you don't see
a ton in the league of guys who just run
(25:27):
by people. You know, that's not the way the league works.
We were dealing with high level athletes at both wide
receiver and corner. But DK is big, and see the
size is a big factor. And I learned this years
ago watching receivers coming out of college, when I had
to learn that when a guy's six two sixty three
sixty four stride length is a big deal. One guy
(25:48):
that really made me aware of that was Randy Moss.
I mean, he'd go in motion z emotion a lot,
and he'd take three steps and all of a sudden,
who's fifteen yards down the field. You know, DK Metcalf
is a legit six four are so stride length is
a trait, so he can get on top of corners quickly,
and he can force corners to have to play differently.
(26:09):
So you know, it's always easy because people probably don't
see him rightly or wrongly, and I don't, so I'm
not gonna sit here and act like I do. You know,
to me, he's not in the Jefferson Chase category, but
I think he's a really good player and I don't
think players like that. Again, there's always a ton of receivers,
so people probably think you can replace receivers, but there's
(26:30):
not a lot of six four to two hundred and
thirty pounds receivers like that. So you know, you have
to make that's a big decision. You got to decide
who am I replacing DK Metcalf with. You know, there's
not a lot of guys quite like that.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Well, I would go so far as to say that
there's nobody like that, because you know, as you said,
the six ' three the two twenty five, not only
did he run the fastest forty times for anybody over
to twenty five, he ran the fastest ten yard split
the combine one point four to five. His ten yard
split is faster than any player had any position at
(27:06):
any size. And that shows up on tape. See, I'm
not just in love with the guy because he's big,
and he looks great without a shirt on, and he
looks like he could win a uh some kind of
uh bodybuilding contest. What I see is is that that
one point four or five that shows up on tape,
he has short area burst right and and and I'll
(27:29):
say this, great, you know this Cover six, Ian is
a coverage where they roll cover two to one side
and then they play quarters to the other. The Seahawks.
This is an objective fact, indisputable. The Seahawks are number
one in the NFL at drawing the percentage of coverage.
Cover six teams roll on on DK metcalfs because they're
scared hell of of that vertical presence and they rotate
(27:53):
the top corner every week. Hats or tan Jalen Ramsey
Gonzalez UH twenty three from the Detroit who came Carlton
Davis Like every week he gets the number one guy
traveled with him if they're a traveling team, And so
I would just say, Greg, if you let him walk
or you trade him. Now, all of a sudden, a
(28:16):
player like him bolts to your number one need on
your football team, and then you're just hoping to replace
him with a guy and hope he's seventy eight of
DK metcalf You already got a superstar in the building.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
And that's a great point too, Ian, because the thing
is we talked about some of the issues. You talked
about the all line obviously, so now you have some
areas you have to address, and you have a receiver
like DK Metcalf, you don't want to have to address
that position because you know, you can't be in a
situation where you have to address so many positions in
one season. You always have to address certain positions. But
(28:48):
but DK Metcalf is a really good receiver, and you know,
I just don't think you're gonna find many guys like him.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Now.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
I think you probably likes him a little better.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Than I do.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
But I'm not saying that he's not a great receiver.
I think he's you know, I think you probably thinks
and I would probably disagree a little.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
I don't think.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
He's as you know, as shifty, as loose hipped as
some other receivers, but I don't think that prevents him
from being a really good player.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
You know, Greg and great quot seal with this, let
me clarify my thoughts on it. Certainly, it would be
like if you said, Okay, Shaquille O'Neill doesn't have the
feed of a team olage, right, Okay, we know that,
but then Shaquille O'Neill has a power facet to his
game that Elijah Won doesn't happen.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, yeah, And I think and I think one of
the things too. Let's do this.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Will take a quick break here because I want to
come back. The DK Metcalf conversation a good place to
kind of to take one final break. Will come back.
We have a short final segment coming up next. What we're
going to do is this and and we're gonna just
kind of throw it open. Final thoughts from each Hue
and from Greg. I probably do want to touch a
little bit more on the defense and what we can expect.
That will take a quick break, come back with more.
Nine three point three KTERFM.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Now back to the Washington State BEEP Commissions Football Friday
with the Infernets on your home for the NFL Sports
Radio ninety three point three k j R FM.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
All right back with you one more segment. We could
probably go another two hours. I'll let those guys have
that conversation off the air on their phone calls, and
we will try to do this again maybe at the
end of the season. If these guys are both wlowing
this is I'm telling you. I keep looking at Jessam
and we're looking at each other, smiling in our head,
going this is this is awesome, this is this is
a ton of fun, and I know our listeners are
enjoying it too. We've talked just very very quickly, Hugh again,
(30:45):
to wrap up DK, you get rid of DK. That
doesn't just affect you today, but it also affects JSN.
What you're gonna do with Lockett, how the offense looks
and you have to replace them?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Is that?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Am I correct assessing that? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (30:57):
That's it? And I agree with Greg. Look if you
put on the tape and you say, can DK have
all the the nuance of a Justin Jefferson his fluidity
in his routes where a Devonte Adams No, I would.
I would say, but DK's pretty damn good. Yeah. And
then when you consider all the other fit the speed
and the and the power and the size, you know that.
(31:19):
That's why I say, Okay, the whole package is a
guy I don't want to get rid of. He's gonna
get market money. I'm gonna pay him that market money.
The last thing I'm doing is getting rid of DK Metcalf, So, Greg,
I see you doing that.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
I would agree with that as a final point for sure.
And by the way, I love the basketball reference.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Yeah right, So Greg, let's talk pop up over the defense.
So Mike McDonald came over. You know, his first half
a year at Baltimore, the Ravens were about seventeenth, eighteenth,
and nineteenth, and the important stats the last half of
the twenty twenty two season number one in the NFL.
We don't know if to see ours are gonna do that.
(31:58):
And then of course last year number one in points,
fewest points allowed, turnovers, and sacks. So we know he
has the resume. Does he have the parts is the question.
I think I'll see it. How much of the defensive
parts that he needs are on the roster, on the tape,
what you're watching, and what are the areas that you
think need to be replaced going forward? I'm talking like
(32:20):
twenty twenty five and beyond. I got my ideas, but
you I want to hear your objective ideas. First.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, I think that he certainly doesn't have the pieces
he had in Baltimore. Don't forget he had Smith and
Queen at linebacker. I mean, that's that's as good a group,
good a duo as you could find in the league.
And right now, I mean, obviously they just traded for
Ernest Jones, a player I really like but he just
got there. So let's you know again, I'm gonna whatever
I say is a tape study point, nothing nothing more,
(32:49):
nothing less.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
You know.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
I saw Torrel Dotson play in Buffalo for years and
he was a backup linebacker, and quite frankly, I thought
that that's what he was. And obviously the Seahawks personnel
sty thought differently of him. They brought him in to
be a starter, and I'm not sure he quite fits
that level that you need for, you know, to be
a starter and every down player. So he certainly doesn't
(33:12):
fit the Smith Queen mold. So that's one thing. So
the other thing is they got phenomenal, phenomenal play last
year from an inside defensive tackles in Baltimore. Matabuque was
as good a d tackle as there was in the league.
They drafted Byron Murphy ideally to become somewhat like that guy,
and I think he can become like that. But he's
(33:34):
been hurt and we'll see where he goes.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
Leonard Williams, to me, has always been a very fascinating player. Now,
obviously he's been with a number of teams. I remember
when he came out of USC you can line him
up anywhere.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
He can play on the outside, he can play on
the inside. I always felt he shows flashes of being great,
but he hasn't been great as a player overall. But
there's flashes that always make you think this guy's should
be absolutely special. I mean, he was a top five
or six pick when he came out. So I think
there's pieces, but I don't think there's enough pieces right
(34:09):
now for this defense from a personnel standpoint, to be
a great defense.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
All right, we got about three minutes before we run
out of our little taping. Here, go ahead, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
So first of all, when he when Greg, when you
said Dodson to me, if there's three guys on that team,
I'm talking offense and defense that to replace the most
most urgently, I would say the two guards on offense
and Dodson I just don't I agree. Are like, he
is not your starting linebacker in the McDonald dell. I
(34:41):
want to ask you about Devin withersbil because yeah, I
I watch him in the slot and and you know
he's he's he's a ferocious competitor and uh, you know
there and and he'll throw his body in there sometimes
he gets washed up in the physicality, you know, when
it's hard to play when when there big tight ends
and big receivers blocking them in there. Have you ever
(35:03):
in the tape study thought would it be better to
just put him out and be a lockdown corner and
just keep him at corner or do you still like
the idea of playing them at nickel and corner and
bouncing him around?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
What?
Speaker 4 (35:16):
What? What? What's your opinion on how they use it.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
That's a great point, because you know, because of his
toughness and competitiveness, everybody just you know, thought slot because
you know he's competitive and he likes to play that way.
I would ultimately like to see Witherspoon play on the outside.
I think that's you know, we did a lot of
that in college. I think he's a really good man
to man defender on the outside. Obviously, the slot is
(35:40):
an important position, but I think with Woolen and Witherspoon
on the outside, you'd have two really good outside corners.
Right now, I think they're struggling a little bit to
figure out who the outside corner would be when Witherspoon's
in the slot. So I would ultimately like to see
him stay on the outside.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
All right, well, great stuff. Listen, that's it. That's all
we got time for today. Greg and I and I
know we could go on and on and on. We
will do this if you're willing at the end of
the year. I know my guy Hugh is as well.
Thank you so sure, yeah sure, thank you so much.
Did you ever break down the humill tape by the
way when he was playing?
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Well, I was only five years old, Dan, so I.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Don't remember that.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
You are a absolute beauty. All right, Well, we got
seahawks and forty nine ers next week. You and I'll
break that down just the two of us next Friday.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
All right, that's good, loved it.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Thanks, that was a ton of fun. That is Greg
CoA sell. We'll take a break, big thanks as well.
The Seattle Sider Seattle Sider down the tap room is
down right between East Marginal Way, First Avenue South and
basically in South Soto or North Georgetown, however you want
to say it right by the Haunted House down there.
Go check it out. Look for your local grocery stores,
especially this time of the year. Some of the festive
flavors including pumpkins, spice, and so much more we'll take
(36:49):
a break, come back. Rob rang joins us next, talking
college football weekend and how it relates to the draft
on ninety three point three KJRFM
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.