Breeders Cup Preview - Episode #138 - Win Place Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Muchos.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
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Speaker 3 (00:50):
Horse Racing Northwest, remembery downs. Breeders Cup Week twenty twenty four,
Joe Whitie, Vince Brun. We've got a couple of well
known podcast us coming on the show today, John White
and the Big A Anthony Stabill. Looking forward to that
talking Breeders Cup. Vince, it's been a few weeks since
our last podcast. How's all things going good?

Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yeah, I think pretty soon we'll be talking about some
dates for twenty twenty five too distant future. And this
is one of the great weeks. You know, we all
have our ups and downs in racing, but boy, the
Breeders Cup just always remains a great two days where
every race is just highly anticipated and exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, we'll be talking about the origins of the Breeders
Cup a little bit with John White coming up, and yeah,
a couple of guests, and our third segment of course
has our normal sports shorts selections and Jim and Vince
can jump into selections this week as well as he's
not doing any morning lines for these Breeders Cups, and

(01:57):
of course our trivia to end the show. But we
have the Breeders Cup at Emerald Downs, so we'll be
busy Friday and Saturday. Gates open at eight thirty on
Friday morning and at eight am on Saturday, and again
it's first come, first serve up there on the fifth floor,
so make sure you get here early if you want

(02:18):
a specific place to sit. It's going to be a
lot busier than most weeks as we know eight o'clock
on Saturday and Saturday. We'll also have the third floor open.
The bar will be open on the third floor, but
no food service down there. Of course, Quick Picks is
going to be a popular spot. Great food there at
Quickpicks at the north end of the fifth floor, and

(02:42):
so the third floor open on Saturday only, but we'll
have a bigger crowd on Saturday for the Breeders Cup.
The fortieth anniversary of the Breeders Cup started back in
nineteen eighty four, so looking forward to seeing a good
crowd out at Emerald Downs and rooting on year selections.

(03:04):
Not a lot of Washington influence in this year's Breeders Cup.
Dave Stodaker is part owner of one of the runners.
Dave grew up in Bellevue and Dave is in there
as you know Vince with Mike Maker, a very prominent
trainer nationwide. Dave actually played basketball Shoreline Community College. He

(03:25):
graduated from the U dub and he's been a real
prominent owner for a lot of years and we certainly
like his participation. He sent a couple of horses out
to run him the Long Acres Mile in the last
six seven years. He is part owner of out on Bail,
who's number one in the Breeders Cup Juvenile Turf Sprint,

(03:48):
which is the sixth race on Friday that Old del
Mar the one million dollar Breeders Cup Juvenile Turf Sprint,
and that horse out on Bail has run a close
second to Governor Sam in out on Bail's last two starts.
Governor Sam is really doing well. He's kind of the
top us hope for that Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf Sprint.

(04:12):
As He's won four straight on the grass at four
different tracks, speaking of Governor Sam out on Bail himself
as one on the grass twice at Saratoga, and of
course those are two year olds, so Dave Stattaker always
give a route for him. We'll have more on Washington
connections in the Breeders' Cup. But yeah, you mentioned the

(04:33):
dates for twenty twenty five Emerald Down season being worked on,
so as the promotional schedule. We really had a great
year with attendance in twenty twenty four as we went
over that, and we're working on the stake schedule and
the race day schedule for twenty twenty five and transitioning
to Emerald Downs type connections. Turf Paradise is starting on

(04:59):
Saturday as well, Vince.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Sure is, and you go, it's kind of a shame
it has to on the same day as the Braiders Cup,
but I guess they get a good crowd down there
for that. But boy, you talk about local connections. Just
looking at the jockey colony, you know, we mentioned Alex
Cruz are five time riding champion. He's riding a full
slate of horses down there. One interesting thing, man Manuel

(05:22):
Americana who we saw get so hot towards the end
of the Emerald down season. It looks like he's going
to be doing Phoenix and also Pleasanton and yeah, which
is possible because Phoenix will run on weekdays and Pleasanton
will go Friday, Saturdays and Sundays. So I don't know
if it's just for temporary, but when you're apprentice and

(05:43):
you're hot, you want to take advantage of those opportunities
while you can. Other guys down there.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Americano won the Fresno meet, did.

Speaker 4 (05:50):
I don't I forgot to check that or whatever. He
was certainly hot. He had another triple down there, and
he was writing for all the big barns, so I'll
look that up before we're done with the show. Here,
Carlo Lopez, who was the defending titleist at Paradise last year,
finished fourth up here. He's there. Luis Rijas, who was
third at our Meat, is down there. Kevin Krieger is

(06:12):
riding Carlos Montalvo's in Phoenix. We'll talk about one of
the horses he'll be riding on Saturday. And one guy
who is riding down there we're not familiar with here.
His name Orlando Mohica but he seems to be riding
first call for Robertino Diodoro, who's going to have a
big presence down there. So look for Mohica to win

(06:33):
a ton of races down there at Terre Paradise this season.
Over at Pleasanton, Silvio Amador, who's been a mainstay up
here the last few years, Kevin Rosco who we know well.
And the guy who hasn't written here for a few
years but has three hundred and five wins at Emerald Downs.
Leonol Camacho Flores is doing some action writing action down
in northern California. Some of the trainers I noticed at Phoenix,

(06:55):
justin Evans. Of course, our two time champ Alexis Silva Martinez,
DeBie Charles Essex, Scott Tubbs, Steve Bullock. They all appear
to have big barnes going down there too. So we'll
be watching a lot of turf paradise here at Emerald Downs,
needless to say. And hopefully you know, if you follow
the Emerald Downs racing, you know who some of these
horses up here who were beating good horses, or maybe

(07:17):
you didn't like the race they want or whatever. It
might have a little legend the early going in some
of those races, anddy Kevin I.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Would think so.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Turf Paradise Opening Day has a couple of stakes races
once again. They're opening this Saturday Breeders' Cup Saturday at
del Mar and the fifth race is the Jeff and
Jack Cody Overnight. It's a forty thousand dollars sprint for
phillies and mayors. And none other than a Lowhaw Breeze

(07:44):
is the morning line favorite. And how good has she been?

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Well, you know, runner up for horses the meeting here
in a three time divisional champion at Emerald Downs. She's
very good and she's very fast.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, her wins at Emerald Downs your margins of victory,
as Evince said, three time Divisional champion ages two, three
and four, four and three quarters, four and a quarter,
eight and a quarter, four and a half, six and
a quarter, six and three quarters and eleven length victory
in the Emerald Distaff on miles Sunday there in August.

(08:17):
So she's going to run at Turf Paradise for the
second time. She did run second to beyond awesome early
excuse me late in twenty two her two year old
year and that Beyond Awesome has had a tremendous career.
She's in the top ten all time earnings at Turf
Paradise and Justin Evans does train Beyond Awesome. So Lowhaw
Breeze going at six furlongs, so she should be tough.

(08:41):
Carlos Montalvo's been her regular rider the last couple of years.
She's going to be saddled by Wade Rerick down there
four owner George Tadaro, Bob Cappelletti stable managers going down.
So good luck to a real top Emerald Downs horse,
a low hawbree And she is not a Washington bred,

(09:02):
of course, she's a daughter of the Factor. But Asna
is in there. Asena was one of our state's leading
earners last year. She made eighty six thousand dollars. She's
by Coastguard out of market formula and that makes her
the full older sister of It's a horse that I own.
I can't even think of his name right now, the
two year old that won had Emerald Downs this year.

(09:26):
I'm part owner, and he's down at Phoenix. He won
a maiden special weight race here this year. Yeah, Escapable,
it's got bull in the name. A West Coast Bull, right, yeah,
West Coast Bull's the younger brother of a Sina.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Took a few other times to break the maiden and
then did in a very great Fashion's funny we can
remember these horses from forty years ago, no sweat.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Exactly, I can't even remember horse I. Frisco Frills is
in there. She of course rattled off some huge victories
at Emerald Downs this summer. She lost the purse on
one of those, but she's with Miguel her and down
at Phoenix David Martin is going to ride her. She
is in the Jack Jeff and Jack Cody Overnight along

(10:08):
with a Sena and a Loha Breeze. Jamie's inheritance is
in there. Who wasn't won this year in seven starts,
but she's kept really good company second to a Loha
Breeze in the distaff here, and then she ran third
to Arctic Breeze, and we know that Philly came back
and wrent from one of big race.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Arctic Breeze is on a real roll. She won very
nicely the bart Heller down at Pleasanton and one going
away and got a seventy six fire equal to your
career high and has now won three straight for Blaine
Wright and Peter Redakopp. She's by Arrowgate and really looks

(10:48):
to have a really nice future getting better every start.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah, she lost one stake up here. She had big
trouble in that race. Okay. That is race five at
Turr Paradise on Saturday. Race seven is the Hank Mills
Senior Overnight. Another forty thousand dollars steak. This one's at
six and a half. And excuse me, Washington Breads, Coastal
Jazz and Coastal Kid are in the race. And those

(11:13):
six year old sons of Coast Guard, both Washington Breads.
I did some research on them when they finally met
this summer at Emerald Downs. They had run against each
other once like four years ago.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Is chuck it Ut Bay in that one too, chucout Bay?

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Thank you? Three Washington Breads in there.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
And let me tell you that Chuconut Bay is twelve
to one on the morning line, which tells you what
a tough race that is, because that horse has been
really really sharp and is very fast. You know, ran
the fastest six of the meat up here and one
seven and three one o seven and three and I
think won a couple pretty easy down in Worry.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
You won at Grant's Past recently.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
But there's a couple monsters in that race that are
really really sharp. So if you like Chuckanut Bay, or
you like Coastal Kid or Coastal Jazz, you'll get rewarded.
And I think Armadoro is in there as well.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Armadoro was the tube horse, yeah for justin local flavor.
Oh boy tons. Yeah. The seven to five morning line
favorite is Tony's Tappitt, who.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Was really sharp in Minnesota.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Oh my gosh. He won four of five starts. No,
he won all five start. Excuse me, but I.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Run in the Phoenix Gold Cup last year and he
got beat over that racetrack.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
So he was nine to one in the Phoenix Gold Cup,
ran fifth, didn't really get involved that day. Came off
that Phoenix Gold Cup and won a restricted steak at
Turf Paradise, but then five for five at the Canterbury Meat.
Two of them were going a mile as well from
off the pace. So he is trained by one Q

(12:46):
Gutierrez and Da Silva is his regular rider, so that
h Yeah. Coastal Kids with Alexa Silva Martinez and Coastal
Jazz Is with Justin Evans and chuckin'ut Bay is with
George russaliz So.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
A lot of.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Washington and Emerald Downs flavor in those two steaks. Opening
day at Turf Paradise Breeders' Cup Saturday, a lot of
eyes on the Cup and that's understandable, let's see. So, yeah,
we talked about the dates, the stakes schedule, the promotional
calendar being worked on, and the dates are almost always

(13:25):
released before Christmas.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Usually in November. The commission meeting is from either November
or December usually is when we come up with them.
You know, it kind of sounds like we'll be pretty
similar to this year's one. Kind of that's looking ahead.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, yeah, we've been hearing this was a great year
for attendance, and of course racetracks and attendance, you know,
that's that's an issue with a lot of the bigger tracks.
We did really well last year, and just keep introducing
our sport to some news people, that's what we'd like
to do.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
And by the way, Manny Americano at Fresno was the
leading rider with fifteen wins and sixty four mounts, finishing
four ahead of Alberto Jimenez and Asile Espinoza, two of
the main stays down there. So you know, we saw
it late in the meat here, toy, you know, Joe,
when these apprentices catch fire like that, the horseman loved
getting that weight off and they can go on a

(14:19):
real heater and that's what man, he's doing. It looks
like he's going to be riding both tracks.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
So tremendous for him, you know. Yeah, Just a great
last couple of weeks at Emerald Downs from Manuel Americano
in a tough riding colony this year at Emerald Downs.
As Vince mentioned, one for the fifth consecutive time by
Alex Cruz. Congratulations once again to Alex Cruz. He has
found quite a home in the Pacific Northwest. Really young rider. Okay,

(14:48):
well yeah, Braiders Cup coming up this weekend. Other Washington news,
A Lonesome Boy is still the leading Washington bread horse
earner for twenty twenty four. He's up to over one
hundred and fifty five thousand. He ran a pretty big
race in that Park Stakes race a couple of saturdays ago.

(15:09):
He was chasing the front running leader, just a length
and a half hour or so off the lead and
made a nice move at the top of the stretch,
got within maybe three quarters of a length and just
tired a little bit from chasing. Three closers came up,
so he did run fifth, but he wasn't beaten far,
so it looks like he is going well.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
That was a tough race. He's a hard trier watching
him run. He lays it down pretty good and you know,
one of these days he's not going to have so
much pressure up front and he's going to be gone.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
That was his first race in three and up category.
A three year old son of Nationhood, owned and bred
by John Parker. Lonesome Boy is well out in front.
Huge Bigley who was high atop our earnings a couple
of years ago. He's out of Gadget Queen. He's been
in the Midwest. He ran third at Keenland a little
more than a week ago. He's at one hundred and sixteenth.

(16:00):
Thou then precise timing who set that Emerald Downs record
of three first three starts steaks wins. No other horse
has done that in Emerald Downs history. Fire Sweeper, of course,
who was in the nineteen eighty five Breeders Cup for
Jerry Paxton. She was five for five at the Long

(16:21):
Acres meet in nineteen eighty five, all steaks wins. Yeah,
I remember that well, yeah, okay, precise timings. Number three
on the earnings list, and she's done for this year
ninety one thousand earned. And then tons of those other
horses like Coastal Jazz, Coastal Kid, they're in the top
ten or eleven, and Naval Escorts down at Turf Paradise

(16:43):
as well.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
That's the one who's been running for Jeff mullens in
at Delmar and sana A Nita Cherry's boy, Cheri's boy. Yeah,
it's been doing pretty well.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, he's three for four this year. Okay, So let's
just do a little back and forth on Breeders Cup
stuff here before we go to break, and we'll have
John White coming on. All started off with some Breeders
Cup wagering stats. There's been forty runnings of the Breeders
Cup nineteen eighty four to twenty twenty three. All races,

(17:15):
there's been four hundred and two races, counting both turf
and dirt. Thirty two percent wins one hundred and thirty
one out of four h two thirty two The Universal yeah,
exactly win percentage secondy three second favorites are down because
the field size second favorites have one at fifteen percent.

(17:36):
Favorites in the money sixty percent ten to one plus
winners twenty six percent. That's huge, but you know you've
got about what seven of them every race or so, right,
there's a lot of ten to one horses in the
Breeders Cup with all those great runners from all around
North America.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
And you know what, there'll be a couple this weekend
and it's we've got to ferret them out.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
On the turf alone, ten to one US horses have
won at twenty eight percent odds on winners. You know, again,
you've got big fields and you've got a lot of
good horses. Odds on winners forty three percent for all
races and thirty seven percent on grass, so that has

(18:18):
drugged that figure down. So it's probably close to fifty
percent on dirt races only on the odds on average
win payoff twenty dollars and forty cents overall and twenty
sixty on the grass, so real close to that of
course on dirt. So yeah, favorites thirty two percent overall,
twenty nine percent on grass. Just some stats from forty

(18:41):
previous runnings of the Breeders Cup. Vince Well, this one.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
Will be from a personal standpoint. I might have told
this before, but working at sant Anita Oak Tree in
nineteen ninety three, the press box at San Anita, the
publicity departments kind of there's a glass door separating from
the main area, and Joe Hirsch was kind of a
little bit struggling with his health later on in his

(19:06):
career and he wanted to be away from the hubbub.
So I was designated to give up my seat there
kind of overlooking the finish line to Joe Hirsh and
Mark Coffman, who hired both you and I Joe into racing,
was also down there that day. So Joe Hirsh had
my seat and we were standing. I stood with Mark

(19:27):
Kaufman right behind Joe Hirsh the whole day watching a
great Breeders Cup that year with you know, Hollywood Wildcat
and Ark Kong and card Mania and all that, and
looking back, you know, that was quite a thrill to
be around. And you know John White, who will be
on with us later that day, he was there that
day too, and he Calment. He goes, wow, Vince, you
kind of hit the jackpot being around a couple pretty

(19:49):
cool guys. So that was a really fun memory for
me personally. And it was such a gloriously nice day outside.
It wasn't hot or anything. It was really clear. We
had had the fires earlier in the week, which put
the whole thing in jeopardy. But come race day it
was a spectacular outside and it was a real fond
memory of being around two of the racing greats.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
That is a good story. And yeah, and I do
remember there. I worked for the news feed that year.
There was a pick seven instead of a pick six, right,
and everybody was alive going into the class set.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
That's right, because it had been pretty formful.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
It was card Mania was around ten to one. Maybe
he was, No, he wasn't either that five to one.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Yeah. Everyone saw that Eddie d had taken off thirty
slews who had ridden a victory in the previous Breeder
Cup to go with Derek Meredith a one man barn,
and darn if he didn't get up and win the thing,
you know.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
And he was aboard Hollywood Wildcat too.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
He was where he blew the writing crop and going
neck and neck with Passeana down the stretch and that
was a really great race too, and Hollywood Wildcat, a
three year old got on a real role that year,
and Posseana we all know how good she was, so
there was some yeah, a real memorable. They were all memorable.
That was a great day.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Hermanski one with Pham Shatter we were talking about earlier
on yeah, going on, but yeah, the pick six there
was just you know, scores and hundreds of tickets alive
and the pick seven after six legs and then who
wins the last.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Long It was deathly quiet in there and I was
kind of looking at their form. Who was this for us?
Jerry Bailey, of course, big name, he wasn't quite as
big a name back then, and he had kind of
picked up the mountain aroundabout fashion and uh yeah, two
hundred and sixty eight dollars win there to sixty nine.

(21:34):
It was just I remember the oohs and ohs when
that went up on the tote board.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
But I think Bertrando was the favorite. Maybe he was
second with you.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, And that was another thing. I was helping get
quotes for the Classic, and I drew the short straw
and had to go try to talk to Bobby Franko,
and he waved me off. He said, I don't even try,
you know, because he was a little bit boy. Yeah,
but you know, it was kind of to get beat
by all horror of our Kong and so that's a

(22:03):
good memory there. Yeah, but it was a great day, Okay.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
The last Washington bred horse to run in the Breeders
Cup was Bodenheimer. In twenty twenty. He was in the
Juvenile Turf sprint won by Golden Pal, who's considered one
of the top turf sprinters ever in Breeders' Cup history.
He won the the open Turf sprint the next year,
did Golden Pal. Bodenheimer broke a little slowly that day,

(22:27):
he was coming off of stakes win at Keenland, actually
on the grass, and he did finish around eight or something.
Son of Ada Boy Roy. So he's the most recent
Washington bread to run in the Breeders Cup, Bodenheimer. And
as far as those original seven to eight Breeders Cup races,
the filly in mare turf was added, I believe in

(22:49):
the later nineties.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah right, I think ninety eight nine right around there.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Yeah, outa boy Roy is the most recent Washington Bread
to run in the original Cup races, as he was
in that twenty ten sprint out of Boy Roy, the
super Dynamo by Tribunal, who held the Washington state record
for six furlongs with noose of beach for several years

(23:15):
before Cabrage broke that. But he had won at Churchill
Downs earlier that year, the Grade two Churchill Downs handicap,
and he in the early opening up of wagering, he
was right there among the favorites seven to two, four
to one. And let's see who wrote him. I should
know that, Oh, Calvin Burrell. He did pull him up

(23:38):
a little bit. He thought that maybe he pulled a
stifle or something. But he was fine. After the race
out of Boy Roy didn't run in the top three,
but he.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
Was inside and didn't quite get the break.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
And that happened to him a few times. Okay, you
got another one.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah. This was nineteen eighty nine, and before I was
in racing, I was still covering the Washington Huskies that
year and the day of the Breeder Cuff. Me and
Mark Kavastik, who's working for the General American, we were
always talking racing, and he had a little TV with
him and I was recording it. I was going to
watch it later that night. And back in those days

(24:13):
it was possible to avoid the news if you wanted
to have made a concerted effort, not like today. And
he goes, how about that classic? I said, don't know,
don't tell me. I want to watch it later tonight,
and he goes, well, I'll just tell you it's great.
And that, of course, was the epic between Sunday Silence
and Easygoer at Gulfstream Park. So here I'm one in
the morning watching it and I'm going, oh and on,

(24:35):
they're coming down.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Oh jezu.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
You know I kind of was in the Sunday Silence
camp a little more than Easy co Or being a
West Coast guy. Yeah, but you just couldn't help it,
kind of let out a scream as they hit the wire.
It was such a race, you know, and Easygore was
the darling of the East Coast, and you know, they
were sure he was the better horse, and he was
great on his good days, but Sunday Silence maybe wasn't

(24:57):
the prettiest move orutter.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
But he beat him again three out of four.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
Yeah, and it was just I mean that classic goes
down there, and then of course the eighty seven one.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
You know you're stealing all my freak coacht.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
Sorry hell no, no, that was another just complete epic.
I mean just what you were there in person four. No,
in eighty seven, No, I was not. Okay, yeah you
were working football, Yeah yeah, I was not there. And uh,
but that you know where the Durkins call to do
two Derby wires, two Derby winners hit the wire together.

(25:30):
And I've told the story a bunch of times. They're interviewing, uh,
Charlie Whittingham back. You know, they had the monitor right
next to the Winter Circle. He's seeing it for the
first time. And what's Charlie not talking about? Ferdinand? He's going, boy,
look at Judge Angeloucci hanging there and that was the
mile winner that year and he's only right behind, you know,
the two greatest horses in training, Ferdinand and Alishiba, and

(25:53):
he's hanging with him. You know, he's probably beat two
lengths of what everybody. Charlie said it twice. He goes, boy,
look at jun Jadu. Boy, he's right there head. Fernanda
just won one of the great races of all time.
Of course he was delighted with that and thrilled. But
you know that was when the long Acres Mile had
really produced some runner man. The year before, of course,
you know you were down there for.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
Oh, actually I was there in eighty seven. I wasn't
there in eighty six because long Acres ran all the way,
that's right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
To the Breeders Cup that year, but guy whatever coming
off the long Acre's Mile and you know, could you
bet on the way the Breeders Cup then in eighty six,
I hope you made a little money that day with Skywark, Yeah,
paid twenty bucks I think, Yeah, it was ten to
one and it went all the way with lafeed up
and unbelievable. That was a great day too, Lady's Secret winning.
I think she was worse of the year.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
And we could go on and on, but yeah, I
was there for the eighty seven and they I was
there at Gulfstream in eighty nine, and.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Yeah, those eighty seven was an awesome and then the
eighty eight one. Of course, you know, in the dark,
in the dark and with the Philly you know.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Oh gosh, yeah, I've told that story a whole bit.

Speaker 4 (26:56):
Now, well winning colors. The Derby winner is loose on
the lead. She's gone right, I mean at Gary Stevens up,
how are you gonna catch her? You know? And but
she got beat.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yep, personal Inson wanted at the wire two and into
her career undefeated.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Thirteen for thirteen. So I mean, it's just the Breeders
Cup has proven to be everything that was supposed to be,
you know.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Okay, fourteen races two year olds on Friday and eight
more on Saturday. Eight races Saturday, six on Friday. Going
back to the first Breeders Cup nineteen eighty four, four
Washington owners were involved. Herman Sarkowski started Pirates Glow in

(27:41):
the juvenile Phillies and also long Acre's top Juvenile Philly
Got you running. She won three stakes at that eighty
four Long Acres meet. She was in the race for
the Maud Dewah stable trained by Bob mcmeans and Maud
de Wah involved Dan Agnew and Maryann Stafford.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
And the statles that we're figured we're not quite sure
on the waw part.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
Yeah. So she ran and she didn't come out of
that race super great. She had a little time off,
did win as a three year old up here at
Long Acres Slew of Gold in that first Breeders Cup Classic,
which has been debated a lot.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
That's another great, just great classic. And what a way
to climax the.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
First breeders Gosh. Yeah, the owner of Wild Again supplemented
for three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
And then remember this is nineteen eighty four money and
the horse is going off at thirty to one and
he's putting up that kind of money. Oh my gosh.
And then you know Slow Gold he liked to bump
around a little bit in the stretch. He had that reputation.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, there was bumping Slow Gold, Gate Dancer and Wild
Again and actually Gate Dancer came down from second to
be disqualified.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
There there was another kind of a row. He wore
the ear muffs. Jack van Berg, who also had Ali Sheba,
just another epic pat day winning That horse had run
I believe it Bay Metals previous race before winning the
Breeders Cup and wasn't taken very seriously.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
And the course. Karen and Mickey Taylor, part owner of
Slew of Gold, First Breeders Cup, First Breeders Cup Classic,
Desert Wine was in that race as well for the
teen iin no Ranch of dan Agnewt and he was
of course a real prominent three year old the year before.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
And runner up in the derby too. Was it Sonny's Halo?

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, yeah, So we had four Washington horses represented by
our four Washington owners involved in that first Breeders Cup
back in eighty four, and that is going to be
part of our trivia question today. That related issue. We'll
take a time out here on horse racing Northwest, come
back with John White more Breeders Cup talk here on

(29:54):
horse racing Northwest.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
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doesn't matter what you do or where you're coming from.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Mucosu.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
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drive from wherever you are. All roads lead to Muckleshoe
Muco suits.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
And now here's Zenyata and let's see, Zenyata has a
lot a.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Lot of ground.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
Tonight, zen Yacht, show your suba off. She started to
pick them off.

Speaker 5 (30:41):
Bu Zenyata're gonna hope me outside Inglas Colonel Dung.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Some come inside, deer punky on the inside. Some of
there this thing, leave them.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yaga.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
That was one of the memorable races in Breeders' Cup history.
I'm sure it is top five and probably number one
for the many tens of thousands that were in attendance
at Santa Nita Breeders Cup Saturday two thousand and nine,
zen YadA remaining undefeated, running against the boys for the

(31:25):
first time, running the farthest distance she had ever run,
and winning that memorable Breeders Cup Classic. That horse provided
so many thrills and memories. And John White is joining us.
Washington Hall of Fame publicist John White joining us on

(31:45):
our Breeders' Cup podcast. John, couldn't do it without you
any year, and thanks for joining us again.

Speaker 6 (31:53):
Great to be with you, Joe and Vince as always.
And well, that was the most strolling range seen in person,
for sure. I was on the hr TV anchor desk
with Joanne Jones and we had to get off the
air just prior to the classic, and they were during

(32:14):
the starting gate and I hustled over to near the
sixteenth pole and they went in the gate, and when
Zajada was making her move down the stretch. I turned around.
I didn't have a cell phone that could take pictures
at that time, or I would have taken a photo
that I have it etched indelibly in my head. And

(32:37):
to see how the crowd was reacting to her closing
and winning in an unelievable performance. As Trevor Demmon said,
but I just wanted to take a moment to not
only see her in action, but get a crowd reaction
shot in my head. And that was, as I say,

(33:00):
the most thurling race I've ever seen, without any question.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Oh boy, it was just just watching her win for
going on three seasons, so many of them were tight
and right at the wire, and here Jerry Moss could
have retired her undefeated. She'd won the Breeders' Cup Distaff
the year before, and she was undefeated again in two
thousand and nine, and then to go against the boys

(33:24):
for the first time, and to go at a new distance,
a new longer distance, I mean, that is putting it
out on the line, and I just hear you know,
there were tears in people's eyes all around that racetrack,
just appreciating the drama and the greatness of that Philly.
You know, the Philly beating the boys is a huge

(33:45):
part of the story, of course, but you were there
for that, and Vince, I think we ought to go
right into the morning line status for John Waite, a
thing we've talked about so many times over the years,
but it's such a good story.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
And don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of
Andrew Byer is a terrific writer and knows his subject well.
But going into the Breeders Cup that year, he and
there was kind of this West coast East coasting again too,
and she was running on the synthetic and Bayer just
was writing his advance for the Classic. And I don't
know if you mentioned you by name, John, I can't

(34:19):
remember that, but he did say the line maker with
bigs and yacht quote unquote preposterous five to two on
the morning line, and he who laughs, what's the saying there?
She went off at two point five to one. And
I'm sure you were watching that odds board pretty closely

(34:40):
going into that race, John.

Speaker 6 (34:42):
Well, you nailed the dents. Of course, you make the
morning line for Emerald Downs. Did you know as a
morning line maker, we tend to watch all these races
like a hawk, but that one I did especially so
especially I was not named by name, but of course
Andy Bayer did take that shot, and it was very
meaningful for me that virtually everybody in the sant Anita

(35:05):
press box once they read that, they were watching too,
and they were kind of upset that he would take
that kind of shot at the line. And so, sitting
on that HRTV desk Joanne Jones, when the race before
the Breeders' Cup Classic was finished and they turned on
the television monitor that we had off to the side,

(35:27):
I was watching it very closely to see what, at
least the opening odds would be that in itself was
going to be quite interesting. Would she be higher than
five to two, which she'd be lower than five to two?
Would she be five to two? Well, yes, she opened
five to two. And I can tell you it's the
only race I've ever seen in my life. And you know,
I've seen thousands and thousands of races going back to

(35:50):
the Pacific Northwest in the nineteen sixties, and I have
never seen another race other than that one anywhere in
the world where a horse on the first click from
the morning line stayed the same price all the way
until they left the starting gate. She never budged from
five to two. She was five to two, five to two,

(36:11):
five to two, five to two. That in itself was
pretty amazing, I thought. But needless to say, I felt
very proud of that, and of all the many many
morning lines I made going clear back to doing it
to play there and then Labois Park and fair Flex Park,
and I made the morning I made the odds in
the Los Angeles Times for over ten years. Of all

(36:36):
the lines I've made, that one I'm the most proud of.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
For sure, I would think so, and we certainly would
back you up. I was pretty gleeful. That race was
just so memorable in so many ways. And then when
I saw she paid seven dollars right on the nose,
that was great. And on top of all that, it
was the first time you made the morning line for

(36:59):
the breed Cup, wasn't it, John.

Speaker 6 (37:01):
That is correct? Yeah, I made eight of them, eight
breeders Cups, and that was the first one. And you know,
one of the challenges of Breeders Cup morning linemaking, there
was a different format every single time. I mean, and
nowadays in the most recent ways of making that you
have to do it before the post positions or even draw,

(37:24):
which to me is kind of a slap in the
face of the horse player out because these these are
among the most important races in the world and you
should at least be able to take into account the
post positions when you're making those morning lines. But the
breeders Cup has their way of doing things, and they
when they come into a track, they kind of take
the whole thing over and they want it on that

(37:46):
draw program that was shown for this year on Fan Duel.
They wanted to where they can show those morning line
odds right away. It's even more of a slamp these
days because of the increased scrutiny of the veterinarians, and
we certainly always lose a number of horses between the
post position draw and race day, so you know, that's

(38:08):
another kind of negative aspect to having those morning lines
as early as we do. But you know the thing
about the morning line, Joe and Vince. When I was
first doing it in the nineteen seventies, like at Yaka Momentos,
it was made the morning of the races. That's why

(38:29):
it's called the morning line. I mean, the entries were
drawn two days ahead of time, and you'd get the
racing form the night before, and then the morning, you
know of the races, you would be sitting there and
you'd have scratch time at seven o'clock exactly, and then
you knew who was scratched, and you had all the
latest information and you sat down and wrote your morning

(38:49):
line on a program proof that would get sent to
the printer. So, but they'd moved that up to the
day before. And then nowadays you'll see many tracks like
in Kentucky and so forth. Was there like a week
ahead of time on these entries and where some of
these boarding lines come out? So and in a way,
I mean, I know it is a horse player myself.

(39:10):
It's kind of nice to have it too. So there's
both sides of the coin, sure.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
You know, John. One of the things with the real
challenging with the Breeders Cup was always those European shippers,
and those are some quality horses that are liable to
get pounded and you can get exposed pretty fast if
you miss on one of those. Now, further compounding thing
this year we got sixteen horses from Japan entered and

(39:37):
they have really taken their spot on the center stage
of racing. The Japanese horse, you got to take them
very seriously. I don't know how you guys do it
anymore with all these shippers that can really run, and
how to factor them into a race where you already
got several North American standouts competing.

Speaker 6 (39:55):
Well it is. That adds to the challenge, no question
about it. I believe it. The horse from South Africa
this year, who's a pretty darn good horse and is
live in that race. But one of the things that
helped me in the recent years is I found out
about a thing called odds Checker, and that's where they
list the odds of the bookmankers, kind of the consensus

(40:19):
odds of the bookmakers in England, and so that was
very helpful to me, especially with those European horses, because.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
It gave you a clue.

Speaker 6 (40:29):
And what I liked about that Vincent Joe is the
fact that that wasn't some guy like Brad Free and David.
They were going in the racing form. But they have
their odds posted, but that's just their opinion. What you
have with odds Checker is actual betting and that carries
a lot more weight with me. Where people are putting

(40:50):
their actual money into those pools to come up with
those consensus odds. Now, one thing I also had to
take into account was the European horses would tend to
get that a little heavier with those European book bankers
than they would here in the United States. That makes
sense because they know those horses better and they're going

(41:11):
to be kind of you more prone to like their
own European horses. So you had to kind of weigh
that factor into it too. But the thing I learned
about making the Morning Line, the more information you can
get and the more input you can get, the better
you can come up with what you think the public

(41:31):
is going to do. And that is your job. You're
not putting the odds that you think they should be.
You're trying to predict the odds as they will be.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
Yep, John White, of course joining us, And I'm going
to backtrack just a little bit, John, I mean, the
Breeders' Cup offers so much. You just talked about all
the Europeans, the Japanese, even from South Africa, the best
from North America, sixteen races over Friday and South the

(42:01):
concept of the Breeders Cup. Do you remember first hearing about.

Speaker 6 (42:05):
That, well, I certainly do back in the early nineteen eighties.
The first Breeders Cup was nineteen eighty four, and the
word came out in nineteen eighty three. John Gaines, a
famous breeder in Kentucky, was the one that came up
with the concept. And Joe Hirsh was there, like so
many things, the great Joe Hirsch of the Daily Racing Form,

(42:28):
who was I'm happy to say and proud to say,
he was one of my mentors. I got to know him.
I met him at the first super Derby at Louisiana
Downs in nineteen eighty and you know, Hirsch was a
giant in this game. In fact, the Hall of Fame
for media people was named the Joe Hirsh Honor Roll

(42:49):
that he helped form the Hall of Fame. I mean,
he's just was one of the giants of the game.
That he was right there at the forefront of the
Breeders Cup, and you know, we just thought, wow, have
all these races with these huge purses. I mean they
were all million dollar purses or more like three million
dollars in the classic and that was just off the charts.

(43:09):
You know, at that time the richest race in the
country was Darlington Million one million dollars. So to have
a three million dollar Breeders' Cup Classic and then all
these other million dollar races, and I will never forget
that very first Breeders Cup at Hollywood Park. I was
sitting in the press box next to Joe Hirsh. I mean,
think of that. And the first Breeders Cup race was

(43:33):
run at eleven o'clock in the morning. It was the
Breeders' Cup Juvenile and Sheath's Crown won that race with
Don macbeth in the settle. And I had seen Don
macbeth ride at Playfair Race Course in nineteen sixty eight,
and you know, I got to see him there right
at the track of my hometown and then here he

(43:54):
is winning the very first Breeders Cup race of all time.
But it was so weird and events to see a race,
let alone a million dollar race being run at eleven
o'clock in the morning. I mean, that was just absolutely
so so it was like you've just never seen anything
like that. I mean, to see it in the actual

(44:14):
morning of the day. The other thing I remember about
that day is that there was a real fear on
the part of the people involved in the Breeders Cup
that it was going to fall flat on its face
because it was so revolutionary, and there was a lot
of thought that there might only be one that the thing,

(44:35):
you know, maybe wouldn't continue. Well, here we are in
twenty twenty four, and not only has it continued, but
we have many more. But we're up to fourteen Breeders'
Cup races now and it's not a one day event,
it's a two day event. So and it certainly had
a huge impact on our game, with un any question.
I mean, obviously the Breeders Cup, along with the three

(44:57):
Triple Crown races, that's the biggest Vince, you know, on
our for our sport, you.

Speaker 4 (45:03):
Know, Vince.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
Vince told a story earlier on our podcast of Vince
at the ninety three Breeders Cup at Santa Anita standing
giving his seat up to Joe Hirsh and standing there
watching the races with Mark Kaufman standing.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
Right right right behind Joe Hirsh. Yeah, because Joe wanted
to be away from all the hubbub of the main
press box. So Mike Mooney asked if I would be
kind enough to give Joe my seat, which overlooked the
finish line, and I did, and I'm glad I did.
And I stood with Mark Kaufman there right behind Joe Hurst.
So what a great thing, John, that we both have.
Joe Hurst cemented in our Breeders' Cup memories.

Speaker 6 (45:39):
Indeed well, and then you mentioned nineteen ninety three. Of course,
that's one of the most famous classics because that's the
race of our Kong, one that Tom Dirkin didn't even
know how to say his name. He called the mar Caine.
He was one hundred and thirty three to one. Jerry
Bailey aboard Kurse Uber and I did the entire simulcast
show from sant ant Anita that day. That was my

(46:02):
first year in television. Think of how it is today
with FanDuel doing the simulcast. They've got like fifteen producers
and all kinds of talent and commentators and this and
that that entire day, and we were able to do
the Breeders Cup races right there was our simulcast only

(46:24):
along with NBCO. That was the only way you could
launch the Breeders Cup. And I'll never forget when our
Kong won. First of all, Kurt and I were alive
in the pick seven. They didn't have a pick six
that year. They had a Pick seven, and Kurt and
I were alive to a three conged Bobby Frankel trained entry,

(46:44):
including Bertrando, who ran second. He ended up losing to
Our Kong, so we ended up with six out of
the seven. But when Our Kong hit that finish line,
it's about the only time in my entire life, again,
of all the thousands of I've been at that you
could have heard a pin drop, because here's this horses

(47:05):
ninety nine to one on the toe board and actually
one hundred and thirty three to one, and everybody is
so stunned that, you know, after the richest race in
North America, instead of the talk about a complete difference,
when Zenyata won, it was so loud it was like
the sound was reverberating off of those San Gabriel Mountains.

(47:26):
This was the complete opposite. As I say, you could
have heard a pin drop.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, it was. We talked about that in our first
segment a little bit too, and that so many people
were alive in the pick seven, not the pick six,
because there was a lot of horses five to one
or less winning that day and John and Kurt Hoover
were among that group. So yeah, a memorable day. Breeders'
Cup off offers so many of those. You talked about

(47:52):
your number one race memory, which stands out Zenyata's win
in the two thousand and nine Classic, And there's just
so many of those. Let's let's get to some selections
and some outlooks John for this year coming up this weekend.
What about the Classic this year?

Speaker 6 (48:13):
Well, I like City of Troy Giants Cosway came close
to beating too. Now in two thousand and the Classic.
Aide O'Brien trained Giants Cosway and it took you know,
one of the greatest cowbreds of all time, that had
as much heart as anybody I've ever seen. Of course,

(48:34):
he was a half brother to Long Anchor's Mile winner
Bud Royale. And we talk about Giants Cosway. Aidan O'Brien
has said that Cidya Troy is the best horse he's
ever trained, that he is better than Giants Cosway. That
means a lot to me, and I mean this is

(48:54):
a sign of Justify. Of course, Justifying was a triple
Crown winner, never walked us on the dirt, and City
of Troy will be racing on the dirt for the
first time. But Joe and vinced something that the Great,
the late great Charlie Whittingham told me more than once
back in the early nineteen eighties. He told me that

(49:17):
he felt that when he would take a turf hose,
especially a European turf horse, and run them on the dirt,
he felt that in most cases that horse's best dirt
race would be the first time they ever ran on dirt.
And an example of that was Parole in the early
nineteen eighties, who had raced in Europe all on the

(49:37):
grass and then in the United States on grass. He
had raced eighteen times on the grass before he switched
to dirt for the Santa Nita Handicap in nineteen eighty two,
And how well did the Parot do on the dirt
for the first time. He finished first, defeating the legendary
John Henry. But Parol was disqualified for causing it interference

(50:00):
in a very controversial call, and that elevated John Henry
to first and made John Henry the very first two
time winner in the Sanitina Handicap. But the point is
I've taken that into account. Ever since Charlie Whittingham told
me that, because there's a guy that's forgotten more about
racing than the rest of us will ever know. And

(50:20):
so for me, while most people are viewing it as
a negative for city that tried to be running on
the dirt for the first time, I'm going to kind
of maybe look at it the opposite and say maybe
it'll turn out to be a positive, especially since his
sire was a triple Crown winner on the dirt. I
do respect Forever Young. He was my Kentucky Derby pick,

(50:41):
and I felt kind of robbed in that deal because
he ran such a really sensational race. He was far
back early and came on but got mugged down the
stretch by Sierra Leone, and I think Sierra Leone should
have been disqualified from second and place third. The fact
there wasn't even an inquote is just outrageous and the city,

(51:04):
but for every Young a tremendous race that day. In defeat,
He's coming off a good prep into this, off of
my on a quarter win in Japan. He's got just
a tremendous trainer. Don't forget this trainer and Forever Young
one two Breeders Cup races at Delmar in one year,
including Mars Lorraine, who became the first Japanese horse to

(51:26):
ever win a Breeders Cup race. So I think the
winner will be one of those two. Quite frankly, I
think Cogburn is the most probable winner at the Breeders'
Cup this year. Most people would say Torpedolanta, but I'm
a little concerned about Torpedolna, having had such a rigorous campaign.
She ran her heart out in the travers to barely lose,

(51:47):
then came back and struggled in a race that you
would have expect her to absolutely dominate. So I'm not
sure she's at her absolute best that she might not
need her absolute best. There is a Japanese horse, the
Awesome Return. He's seven for seven and is a daughter
of Justified, just like City of Troy. She's the main

(52:07):
danger to torpedo Anna, but Cogburn. I have felt that
Golden Pal's is the best turf sprinter I've ever seen
until now. Cogburn, I think is the best turf sprinter
we've ever seen in the United States ever. And this
horse is just he's freakish and I just don't see
him getting beat. I'll be shocked if he doesn't win
the Turf Sprint, and then I've got sprinkling of long

(52:31):
shots to look at in the juvenile Turf. I'd like
Minty to win it, but I think the Maury City
could possibly win it too. They're nice prices. Minty is
fifteen to one. He's from the same damn as Fierceness,
and Maury City gets Bwick and the trainer, Charlie Appleby

(52:52):
has said there isn't much separating Amory City and Al Quadra.
Al Quadra's four to one on the morning line, Amori
City's ten to one, and I think that I wouldn't
have made him ten to one when you've got to
apple Be saying he's virtually the same horse as al
Caught Quadra and the top rider for the stable Buick

(53:12):
is on Amory City, So I think that's kind of
a flaw in the morning line there. But MENTI I
think could steal the race. He looked so good winning
last time in New York. Then in the Turf, Rebels
Romance is the horse to beat, no question. He won
the Turf two years ago. He's the five to two
morning line favorite, and I think Emily up John trained

(53:33):
by the great John Gosden, who of course won the
very first Breeders Cup Mile at Hollywood Park with the
Philly back in the day Royal Heroin. And then I
think JRB is also an interesting Emily up John five
to one, JRB four to one. In the Phillya Mayre Turf,
I like a twelve to one shot full count Felicia

(53:56):
to wire the field. I don't see a bunch of
other early speed. I think she might just go out
and they won't catch her. And hey, look if they
aiden beat her, at least you're going to get a
run for your money, because I expect her to open
up a five, six, seven, eight, nine ten length lead
early in that race, and it's not the strongest group
from Europe this year. For the Philly Mare Turf, I

(54:16):
kind of expected embilyop John to go there, but Cosden
feels that the Delmar layout fits her better to go
a mile and a half rather than the mile in
three eight Yeah, I say, finally in the Delmar in
the dirt mile, I like post Time at twelve to
one and MUFAs at twelve to one. Those are my
top two picks in that order. That's one of the

(54:36):
great things about the breeders Cuff, guys, is Yeah, you
get some heavy favorites to win, but boy, as we
see year after year at the breeders Cuff, you can
really get some good the payoffs if you get the
right horse.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Yeah, ten to one are greater winners. John, at the
Breeders Cup twenty six percent overall ten to one.

Speaker 6 (54:56):
Or wow, think of that, and it's an interesting statu.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Joe eight percent on the grass. Yeah, there's just so
many live horses, and yeah, you just went over a
bunch of them, so good stuff. Yeah, full count Felicia
caught my eye a lot too, just for the same
reason you said she's going to have a big lead,
and she's actually shortening up, and she's got Irad Ortez
on her who has ridden her one time and one

(55:21):
so she's number two in the filiar Mayor Turf. So
some lots of things to think about. You're probably gonna
want to re listen to the last five to seven
minutes to get John's picks again, but that's easy to
do on a podcast. But great to have you on. John.
Congratulations twenty twenty four, A great year for you. Your

(55:45):
home State recognized you in the Washington Thoroughbred Hall of Fame.
We were so happy to have you and Tracy up
here for the weekend and to recognize that it just
Vince wrote that video and that thing, I know, Vince
could have been you know, five times that long. But
you know, we had other inductees that day that had

(56:06):
to be considered.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
But again, that was fun to do. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (56:11):
So, John, Well, my biggest my biggest regret of that
whole weekend, of course that I also enjoyed the Long
Acres Mile because I had a good sized bet on
the winner the back to back Winter or the Long
Acres Mile this year, as he just dramatically got up
in the last jump. But my biggest regret was not
being able to spend more time with Vince. Vince was

(56:32):
so busy, so I was very sorry that I wasn't
able to spend a little more time with Vince, but
I did enjoy Unfortunately, I was able to spend quite
a bit of time with you, Joe, and that was
very enjoyable.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
Yeah, you know, John, you just said something that made
me think of something else. Charlie Whittingham said, I can't
remember the name of the horse but you remember Jay
Randolph worked on some of the early breeders cups and
would do some interviews. Yes, and he said to Charlie Whittingham,
he go one more jump than you would had it,
and Charlie witting goes, yeah, well the race was a mile.
It wasn't a mile in a jumper.

Speaker 6 (57:07):
That's been I'm telling you one of the biggest thrills
in my career was getting to really know him extremely well.
One reason he liked me was I was always prepared
and I learned that trick from Joe Hirsh. But another
reason Whittingham like me is I would show up at
his barn sometimes at like four thirty because Charlie Whittingham

(57:29):
and Noble Freewi were always the first two at the
barn pretty much in southern California back in the day.
And the fact that I would get my butt out
of bed and get the Whittingham's barn before. Look at
Hollywood Park one time I was there when he took
his first set to the track and they had a
gate that they had to open up to let the

(57:50):
horses get onto the track, and they were late. There
was like a guard that didn't show up in time,
and Whittingham was pacing around and he finally said, well,
hell with it, I'll open it, and he opened up
the gate. The little forces out onto the track.

Speaker 4 (58:05):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Yeah, he was one of a kind, that's for sure.
Charlie Whittingham, the bald Eagle.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Good, good spot to end it on. John, Thank you
so much for being part of our Thanks John, stuff.

Speaker 6 (58:18):
Yeah, and great to be with you guys. Hope you
guys have a great Breeders Cup and everybody everybody has
a great Breeders Cup. You know, it's always so much
fun and I'm certainly looking forward to it this year.
There's a lout of I mean, for the most part,
there's a lot of deep races with a lot of
contenders in these races. So there's there's a recipe for

(58:42):
a sharp horse lawyer to make some money this year.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
Thanks John, John White joining us on horse Racing Northwest
and just always a great addition to our podcast. And
again you can play that back listen to his selections.
He does like City of Troy, he likes He's two
non North American horses for his top two picks there
in that Breeders Cup. You know, classic a lot of

(59:09):
the social media.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
They're making a big buzz about City of Troy was
pretty washy in his gallop at Delmar, but then a
lot of people chime and that's normal.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
For him, So yeah, that counts, you know.

Speaker 4 (59:21):
And one of the my racing maxim is never wanting
to take a short price and a horse doing something
for the first time, which City of Troy will be
going to dirt and will be a favorite. So it's him.
I got to try to beat that type of wordy too.
But John brings up some good points, you know, and
a guy like Aidan O'Brien says it's the best source
he ever trained. Well that's telling you something right there.
So he's certainly a little bit of a mystery coming

(59:42):
into the race because you know, his last work they
put out press kits on it before his work back
there and it was a media event, so I mean,
can you imagine, So he the only thing I don't
like about the Classical this year. Maybe some people like
that it's race eight and there will be what four
more races after the Classic on Saturday, which will be

(01:00:02):
a little bit unusual.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
That's a new schedule, right, you know, pretty much made
for TV. Deal as the order of Breeders' Cup races
are well, on Saturday, it goes after a couple of
the sub type Breeders' Cup race. Here, I'm sliding Breeders
Cup races, but the last what six on Saturday or

(01:00:24):
Distaff Turf Classic and then the Filliar Mare Turf Sprint
and the mile.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
They're all still wonderful races. Of course that that mile
to finish it off as a relatious event. Yeah, so
it'll be fun and you might have a selection up there.
I might. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Okay, well, we're going to take a time out and
on our next segment, Anthony the Big Aceta Bill is
going to join us. Just one more stat on Breeders
Cup history. Mike Smith is the all time winning his
Breeders Cup jockey twenty seven wins. D Wayne Lucas is
the all time leading Breeders Cup trainer with twenty victories.

(01:01:00):
Scott Sees the Gray the Gray. Yeah, and Mike Smith
has never won a Breeders' Cup race. For d Wayne Lucas,
they haven't. They haven't combined together and all those wins.
All right, we'll take a time out and we'll come
back with the big a Anthony Stabeil here on horse
Racing Northwest.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Mccosson.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
dining on the finest Asian, American and Salis cuisines. It
doesn't matter what you do or where you're coming from Mucoson.
What you do is all at Muckleshoe, an easy drive
from wherever you are. All roads lead to Muckleshoe.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Mucos Soon.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Breeders Cup weekend once again, Emerald Down's a good place
to be. Fifth floor open Saturday and Sunday. Excuse me,
let's back that up to Friday and Saturday Day. Friday,
the gates open at eight thirty am. Saturday at eight
a m. And as advertised, the Big A Anthony sta
Bill back for another horse Racing Northwest Breeders Cup podcast. Anthony,

(01:02:14):
you are a tradition on here and for good reason.
My man, how you doing doing good?

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Joe, looking forward to a looking till we've forward to
a fun weekend if you're listening in the western part
of New York State. Were opening the same hours as
Finger Lakes and Racetrack eleven thirty on Friday and then
eleven on Saturday. Got to get the pulled big a
cart in as well. I got everybody fire on early.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Boy, well that makes sense. Okay, finger Lakes not usually
racing on Friday and Saturday, but doing it for the
Breeders Cup this year as probably.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Well, no, we're not racing the start those times. Yeah,
so they're going to open the soule casting on so
that we can get everything in. And I think we're
saying we're staying open to the end of the Breeders Cup.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
So I got you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Yeah, fun weekend, Fun weekend ahead, one of my favorite weekends.
Oh yeah, if you're a horse racing plan, this is
one of the big Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
We're thinking back to the beginnings of the Breeders Cup
and I was working at a local radio station in
Seattle doing sports and I heard about it from the
radio report guy out at Long Acres, whose job I
took the next year out there at Long Acres. But
Scott Ellingson, he said, you know, the Breeders Cup. What's that?

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
You haven't heard about the Breeders Cup. It's going to
start next year. It's a It just was a fantastic concept,
a championship for horse racing. And and others have said,
you know, they were just wondering whether it was going
to really make it. They were really hoping this first
year got off to a good start, which it did.
I think you remember that first date, even though you
were a young tyke at the time, huh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I was seven beautiful first annual Breeders Cup World Championships.
I was seven years old. My dad's birthday November tenth andeteen.
I remember him and his friends being really really excited
for the day, and you know, a little too young, yeah,
still to kind of grasp the concept of it. You know,

(01:04:12):
back then, all I was worried about was who's Georgie
Velaska's riding?

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Yeah, I bet you were boxing. You're exacts at age seven,
I was.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
I was. I hit my first trip on when I
was five. I bought a Collegal vision with the money,
so one, two, four numbers. But yeah, uh, you know,
just an amazing concept. And you know, as I got
older and became a student of the game, and you know,
you start to realize John Gaines and the crew putting
this idea together and saying, well, you know, let's let's
really showcase, let's showcase the the sport and let's try

(01:04:45):
and make it an international give some international flare, and
you know the original seven yeah right right, we didn't
have we didn't ad a race on until nineteen ninety eight.
Was the Yeah Yeah a filiumare Turf starring Softly, Jerry Belly,
Jimmy Toner.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
That was the last time I won the Emerald Downs
Breeders Cup Draft contest was.

Speaker 7 (01:05:10):
I've give you a couple of dudden Oh boy, No,
I've had a little bit of a little bit of
a bad role in that, but yeah, you know, and
originally go to different venues showcase the sport. And obviously,
as you know, as places have closed down and they've
kind of pared it down to a finite amount of venues,

(01:05:33):
it's changed a little bit. Two days obviously fourteen races
if my math is right, At one point we could
have been up to sixteen, sixteen races. The Juvenile Dirt
Sprint is gone and the Marathon's gone, so sixteen different
races with down to fourteen two day event. I like

(01:05:54):
the Future Stars Friday concept a lot. I like I
think people like themes. I think it's nice to have
all the two yurols on a Friday. You know, Churchill
down started that concept a few years back with some
of those stars at Tomorrow's Cars and together. Yeah, and
it's you know, it's funny because a as a as
a lifelong New Yorker, the British Cup kind of hurt

(01:06:19):
the Fall Championship meet because at Belmont Park because that's
where this that's where the championships were decided until the
Breeders Cup came around. Yeah, so a little bit of
a hometown blow. But you know, obviously for the greater good,
and you know, just watching and and just keep an
eye on things on social media, the international flavor that

(01:06:44):
and you know, watching Aiden's on me come out every
morning and the Japanese influence. Japan Now was showing Mom
this morning.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
I was showing Mom and I was like, watch how
cool this is. And we'll talk about the classic obviusly
I like setting at Troy a lot, but let's just
look at how cool this is. And you know it's
I got to see it in person in twenty eighteen
at Churchill and they come out right after the renovation
break and the Game of Thrones was popular at the time,

(01:07:14):
and it looked like the it looked like the white
Walker Army, the Army of the Dead coming out onto
the track. Just this single file uniformity. Everybody's doing the
same thing. They got the whole gimmick now with the
City Detroit jackets on all the exercise riders. Yeah, it's
a really it's it's it's awesome to see and get.

(01:07:36):
Like I said, Japanese influence two from South Africa this year,
and then you know, five different continents represented this year.
I guess, I guess Antartica and Australia Boiling two were
sitting it out. So yeah, it's really become what they
what they wanted. It's a global event and we took

(01:07:58):
it international once. I know, it was just a Canada
of the nineteen ninety six went to Canada, and I
don't think it'll go any I don't think it'll go
leave the States anymore. But they don't need to. I
mean with all the shippers that are coming in and
obviously the world has embraced this event.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Yeah, it's fantastic. There was a European flavor in the
first one and that certainly continued over every Breeders Cup.
But now the Japanese with their breeding industry just it's
really on the upgrade. They're a huge factor now in
international racing, and of course the Mid East has certainly

(01:08:35):
been involved for a lot of years. So Friday and Saturday. Yeah,
two year olds in action on Friday and a lot
of the traditional races on Saturday. And we are going
to talk Breeders Cup right now. So you did mention
City at Troy and the Classic hasn't run on the
dirt yet. He's a three year old, but he is

(01:08:55):
a lot of horse and Aidan O'Brien there's a lot
of superlve is coming from him himself on City of Troy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Big. You know, you when you're when you're at a
bar and trouble's ruined, you want to stay away from
the quiet guy, right, It's never the it's never the
loud mouths. Well, I'm a little bit of a loud
mouth and I can back it up, but I think
I'm the exception as opposed to a rule. You want
to stay away from the quiet guys. This is not

(01:09:24):
something Aiden O'Brien does. And he's literally you know, he's
the best horse I've ever trained. So I was watching
Nick Luck's interview from Sunday, stuck in traffic, I want
a finger Lakes. Monday morning, Nick does a great job,
and they're having a little bit of a round table
talking about City of Troy, and one of the gentlemen
on the round table said he's had nineteen horses, Aidan O'Brien,

(01:09:48):
that have posted higher racing post numbers than City of Troy.
And I'm sure that's something that's not lost on Aidan O'Brien.
He still got his chest out saying, this is the
best source I've ever trained. I think he gets over
the dirt beautifully. In fact, I think if you look
at his last two turf races and then watch him

(01:10:10):
get over the dirt, I think he gets over the
dirt better. And I'll know one of these people that
manufactures things, it's not like he's ten to one on
them looking for a reason to better. He's probably gonna
be a favorite of a second choice. But I mean,
he's a race horse. He looks like a little I
shouldn't say little, but he's he's far from a massive individual,

(01:10:32):
but he looks like a middleweight. He looks like a middleweight.
He walks onto the track, he looks like he just
wants to punch you in the face and go back
to his stall. And I love that in a race horse.
He has that age. He just looks like he's all
business and he cuts a lot of these races on

(01:10:55):
the front end by him. You know, on his last
time out he couldn't fit. His rabbit couldn't keep up
with him.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Yeah, that's that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
That that helps him. That helps with the dirt. Obviously,
having that tactical speed. He's got a great draw. He's
got two horses and Author's Rod and Fierceness that are
absolutely gonna go Highland Falls has some speed. I think
he's going to get a good trip, and I just
think he's better than he's I am not thrilled with
this punch. I have a couple of I have one

(01:11:27):
or two kind of borderline different ideas for underneath him.
But I'm singling him if he gets beat, I'm tearing.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
City of Troy five to two morning line and talk
from you and and others we've spoken to, and then
right from Aiden O'Brien's mouth, I gotta think he's going
to go off lower than Fierceness, who is the close
second choice on the morning line at three to one
in that seven million dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
I don't think I'm sorry to throw Joe. I don't
think either of them are going to be favorite. I
think for Revie, Young's gonna be a favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Ah okay, six to one morning line. And of course,
last race that we saw him in the US was
that fantastic race in the Kentucky Derby. And then he's
since run just once. That was in Japan and he
won that beat fourteen others there in earlier this month.
So he's coming back in about three weeks or so,

(01:12:24):
well four weeks. Yeah, Forever Young girl the rail.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
I think a lot of people think he should have
won the Derby. He had a good prep and I
believe he'll be the favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Got bothered in the Derby as well, made a huge run. Yeah,
that was super impressive, and that's his only loss the
Kentucky Derby. Forever Young six for seven. Dang, I should
have taken him in the first round. Sorry I didn't.
So I'm talking about a little contest that Vince and
I were.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
I'm going to use him. I'm going to use him underneath.
I'm going to use Sierra Leone Hi underneath. You know
Sierra Leone, He's one of these horses that I have,
I've never been in love with them, but I feel
like he has one of these with his name on.
I don't know if it's this one on that racetrack,
but I can see some of those horses that have

(01:13:15):
to deal with city. You know, if I'm right about
City Detroit, if you're a fan of city destroying, you're
right about him. You have to think that whatever surrounds
him early is going to be strugglingly. I think that's
just common sense. Now, okay, now find the ones you want.

Speaker 7 (01:13:31):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
I think Sierra Leone is going to be the right
kind of price to find. I think Forever Young has
to be used off of his derby and off of
this prep and I'm going to use next I'm going
to use the marathon or I can see it. Yeah,
you know, I just think horses, they aren't machines. Right.

(01:13:54):
When horses like him get into this groove and they
keep just destroying these fields.

Speaker 4 (01:14:00):
For two years, they get.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
An air, They get an air in a confidence about him,
And I don't I don't think this is that tough
with a bunch of horses. I really don't. I think
he's got I know, he's got some talent. He plenty
of bottom underneath him. In a race where I think
you got to wonder if some of the sources want
a mile and a quarter, you gotta wonder if that's
going to be long a form.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
She's the margins of victory for next or just you know,
off the charts, let's face it. And yeah, so he's
shortening up just a little bit, not that much to
a mile and a quarter. And what's his morning line?

Speaker 4 (01:14:33):
Eight to one next?

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
Okay, so City of Troy Sierra Leone. Yeah, Sierra Leone
is going to be a lot higher price than he's
been in of course his three year old campaigns in
which he's made all these impressive moves but hasn't able
to been able to get to the wire for since
the Bluegrass still has made two point two million. Pratt

(01:14:55):
stays aboard a lot of things to like. As you said,
all right, well, how about a low priced horse that
you're against a little bit in the Breeders' Cup.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
So I'm not completely tossing this source because there's a
lack of depth in the field. But I got a
funny feeling torpedo and is gonna get beat and with
Ning o' matta coming out and a couple of other scratches.
Vatakuda came out and missed New York. Not that these

(01:15:28):
sources had these big chances, but these are horses, you know.
There's it's dams will Field of eight yep. And she
looks like she's supposed to control. I wonder what Candy's
gonna do from the rail with the blinkers on for
Todd Pletcher, those blinkers going on, making it a little interesting.
I'm going to Japan. I like awesome results. She's a
perfect seven for seven. She's looked really good on the racetrack.

(01:15:52):
She's one of these phillies that just keeps taking money.
Another another justify coming over again, talk about having bottom.
The shortest distance she's raced, that is this this staff
distance at a mile on an eighth she's wanted a
mile on a quarter, a mile on five sixteenths. She's
won on sloppy tracks, good tracks, fast, muddy everything. She

(01:16:14):
just wins. She just wins. She has Japanese legends. You
Takataki in the in the boot. She has some speed.
I would imagine that she's gonna be forward from post
seven now and for Pete Anna. And I'm not strictly

(01:16:35):
a speed figure guy. You and I have been doing
these shows together for many years now. Amazingly, I'm not
strictly a speed figure guy. But if you take her
travers out of the mix, and this is something that
it's funny because you know, you never it's hard to
compare the different errors and the different horses. Right. Everybody's

(01:16:58):
knock on songbird was is she doesn't have a lot
of fast figs. She's not that fast? Well, what makes
this Philly that fast? What am I supposed to do
besides that travers fig? And I think what you need
to worry about in the traverse is did she shoot

(01:17:19):
her shot? Is she was that it? Right? She's been
She's danced a lot of dances. Aulk Lawn Churchill Saratoga
Parks now out for Delmark. Last year she ran a
Keenland and Churchill danced a lot of dances. She regressed

(01:17:40):
big time off that traverse. Now you could say, well
she was supposed to, and you'd be right. The Philly
she'd beat gun song was average. It best in the
Mother Goose the other day hear that and she was
life and death to get by her. Now you could
say she was eighty and I could bow buy that.

(01:18:01):
I'll buy that coming back in five weeks off that Travelers.
That's short, but I don't know shipping across the country
long campaign. You know, she didn't start her year until
the last, the last weekend in March, so she crammed.
She's it's seven races essentially in seven months. That's a lot, Yeah,

(01:18:23):
a lot. And and the and the race and the Travelers.
And we've seen, you know, we've seen these phillies. And
the first one that comes to mine as Rachel Alexandra.
She ran that bang up race against an average bunch
of older horses in the Woodward of Saratoga in two
thousand and nine, and she was never the same, never

(01:18:44):
the same.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
Yeah, didn't run in the Breeders Cup, and the race
against Senyata was scratched the next spring, and then uh
didn't she go for four or something like that?

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
I don't think she won, did She was too for
She went to for four want couple of couple races,
but she got beat persistently up in the Personal insign
and she lost the first race back to a to
A to a different Zendaia. Maybe it was another jock
the Sheriffs that started with a Z. I know, that
was the irony of it all down at the fairgrounds.

(01:19:19):
So it bothers me. Look, she's supposed to have a
pretty easy kind of things on the front end, but
I don't, I don't. The Japanese Philly looked really good
this week on the track from what I was able
to see on TV and and and online, got some
good reforce about her and Ragency. I mean, you know,

(01:19:40):
Ragency is has really kind of turned the corner. She's
gotten some help, he's gotten some good faces, but she's
kind of she's kind of turned the corner. And I'm
a multi race guy. So if I'm gonna lean on
City of Troy like I'm going to, I can afford
to take a couple of shots against so Petlana, especially

(01:20:02):
if you look, you know, and this is one of
the worst things you can do. But when you look
at the sequence that early took five sequins, Cogburn's in there.
I mean he kind of looks like see to me,
he's the biggest free Bengos square of the weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):
That's what people are thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Yeah, he's the one one O seven one fourteen one
O seven by a speed figures and turf sprints. You
just don't see it. You just don't see it. So
if you're figuring he's gonna win, he's gonna be a favorite.
So you're sure he's gonna be one of the favorites. Yeah,
and now you know. Now you looking. Even though it's British,
they can look at the charge to fifty dollars. Early

(01:20:41):
took five. So I want to get a little inventive.
And I think she's going to be the biggest favorite
on the of the weekend. I really do. I can't
imagine maybe Lake Victoria on Friday for coolmore in the
Juvenile Phillies turf maybe maybe, but I think it'll be

(01:21:03):
I think Tolpeto Aral is one to two. I don't
think they wanted to. I don't think they nowhere else
to go at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
Well, yeah, scratches shorter Field then yeah, she's been a
standout all year. You know, awesome result and Torpedo Anna
has kind of done the same thing. She's beat a
lot of different horses in her races, but awesome result.
Seven for seven, the second and third horses, second and

(01:21:30):
third horses are different in every race. There's not a
repeat in those seven races. So she's just been beating
everybody that Japan has to offer, and you know and
and yeah you like to see that running at different
tracks and just beating new fields all the time. And
she's done it. So I see she descended of Sunday
silence probably awesome reason.

Speaker 4 (01:21:52):
Yeah she's a.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
Justified scat daddy and Deputy Minister mayor. So okay, uh
four to one morning for awesome result. Going in against
Torpedo Anna in the Distaff, which is the sixth race,
about one twenty emerald downs time and uh yeah, things
going a little bit later back east for the Breeders

(01:22:14):
Cup being on the West coast, so uh using a
few against Torpedo Anna is the big aulay a bomb?

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
Yeah, ready for let me know when you're ready for
the bomb.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
I'm ready for the bomb always.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
So we got to wait till we save the best
for last in the dirt mile and this was the
you know, one of the things we talk about when
we try to we always want to entertain, but when
we're doing you know, shows like talking horses that I
used to do when I was with Naira. Whenever I

(01:22:49):
go on do interviews and pods like this, I always
try to educate as well as entertain. I never go
into a race saying to myself, I'm going to beat
the favorite, don't I never. I never open a racing
form and say that I'm going to beat the favorite.
I will look to beat as many favorites as I can,

(01:23:10):
but I don't go in and look. I don't go
in with that intent. I found a real interesting horse.
I think in uh Tumba rumba, the number seven and
the dirt aisle. When you pull his form and fart
a little bit, he's he's run six first off, he's
run sixteen times, and if you throw out his wet

(01:23:33):
track and his turf races, he's never been off the
board five to twelve with five seconds and two thirds
on fast tracks. So I love seeing that consistency, a
lot of it. In fact, his last since last July,
he's faced Exclusive States Company. Once was a Louisiana Bread

(01:23:56):
Steaks race where he was allowed. Basically he got beat.
So the thing with him is his two turn races
seem to be a little less effective than his one
turn races. I don't think it's the dis I don't
think it's the turns. I think it's the distance. He's
three for he's two for five with three seconds of
the mile. And I know people will say, well, it's

(01:24:17):
just a sixteenth of an eighth of a mile. More,
that's a big sixteenth of an eighth of a mile.
To tell, you've been around a long time that sixteenth
of a mile and an eighth of a mile can
has proven to be the undoing of many great horses.
And I don't think it matters at what distance, So
this just happens to be a two turn mile. I
think his two turn races are really good. I think
his mile races are excellent. And now he gets to

(01:24:38):
go at two turn mile for the first time in
his life, and he is going to be twenty five
to one. He's thirty to one in the morning line.
He has tactical speed. He has one of my favorite
riders in Louis Saiaz aboard. I think he gets to ride.
You know what he got a he got. He didn't

(01:24:58):
get a great post. Seven is not bad, but you know,
you look at some of the horses in here that
are going to take money. Skippy Lungstocking fourteen, Mufasa twelve,
the favorite Master Product nine. These they're gonna have to
deal with a lot more, and he's gonna have to

(01:25:20):
deal with and with his tactical speed, he is gonna
be able to not only control his destiny a little bit,
but he's gonna be able to control theirs a little
bit as well, by you know, protecting his draw and
getting over and they're gonna be a little They're gonna
be outside. They gotta get around him amongst others and

(01:25:43):
Louis Louis Side, I think is one of the best
riders at recognizing I always say this to people, He'll
be an if he wants when he retires, he'd be
an excellent analyst because I feel like he's a good handicap.
His horses are in the right place all the time. Okay,
he takes advantage, he takes advantage of slow paces, he

(01:26:06):
takes advantage of taste duels like I think he's just
a real complete rider. And I think part of it
is his brain. I would bet, I would bet a
lot of money. He spends a lot of time watching
replays and reading the ration for and you know, on
a day that looks like, you know, we got a
lot of star power and it looks like like be
a little chalky. I think we can I think we
could like to fuse at the end of the day

(01:26:26):
with Pambrun.

Speaker 3 (01:26:28):
Is this a horse Tumbarumba that you know, I know
you're aware of him through the year, but uh uh
is this just from handicapping over the last ten days
or is this a horse that?

Speaker 4 (01:26:39):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Good? I like that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
I like that nice and fresh, good fresh look at him,
and yeah, the two turn thing, I'm gonna just leave
out Chancer mcpatrick because he hasn't run two turns yet.
And you know, you leave out one of the favorites,
you got a chance to make a little bit money.
We're talking about a different race, of course, the juvenile.
But chance mcpatrick has been running in those one turn

(01:27:02):
races and he's going to go two turns. Tumba Rumba
is run huge around two turns several times. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
No, Chancell mak patrick. It's funny. That's a good it's
a good juvenile this year. A couple of minutes to
talk it if we do, sure so, East Avenue and
Chancellor mcpatrick are going to get the marquee right. Completely
different running styles. One comes from the moon, the other
one is on the bill Deli the whole way. Both

(01:27:30):
really really nice horses. Obviously at del Mar with the
draw and the two turns, I mean all signs point
to east, you know, advantage East Avenue across the board.
That's not to say going forward chances Manufactrick can't develop. No,
he has a little bit of a bad habit. I

(01:27:50):
think of he kind of runs in spots and you
can you can get away with it and that those races.
But now he's meeting some of the best. I'm a
big Jonathan's Way fan. His debut in Saratoga, I thought
it was one of the five best debuts I've ever seen.
Uncle Moe's debut in twenty ten and Saratoga was the

(01:28:10):
best debut I've ever seen. I think Jonathan was Jonathan's Way.
I think his debut is a top five debut that
I've seen. He really really wowed me. And then to
come back and win wied a wire stretching out to
the mile very impressive, which he's probably going to be
somewhere in the right. It's like the porridge too hot,

(01:28:33):
too cold, just right. They'll all find the right spot
for him. But the horse that I'm very interested in
in the juvenile, is Ferocious. He came to Saratoga, gaudy
price tag, a lot of hype, lived up to it.
He came back with that regular rider, Javeat Cascellana, who
had worked him and worked with him. He's a little
bit of a quirky horse. And Habber got hurt, and

(01:28:57):
Irad wrote him in the Hopeful and you kind of
I think I think you saw that. I don't think
people in this day and age say often that they'd
rather have Javier Castellano than a rod Ortiz Junior. But
I think Javier getting back aboard this horse is very important,

(01:29:18):
very very important. It's his only mount for the two days.
His agent Pda Campal, is a great friend, but he's
done a hell of a job resurrecting Javier's career. This
is his only mount for the two days. And I
get it. The great riders, and Hoavier has lost some
business and he was hurt and everything, and I completely
get it. But I think him getting back aboard Ferocious,

(01:29:43):
it means and it was erod Orchies Junior and Louis
aias two of my favorite riders. I just think Javier
has in this horse click and I think he's gonna
run a much better race than he has in his
last two. That that that Keengland Racetech was a highway

(01:30:04):
for the for the Playbown British Futurity. East Avenue got
in front of him, bothering him a little bit coming
out of there, and just kept going. I think things
can be different. I like Jonathan's Way and and Ferocious,
and they have both of them be got a prices.

Speaker 3 (01:30:21):
Jonathan's Way six to one on Ferocious.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Yeah, I'm not throwing East Avenue out. I'm not throwing
East Avenue out. Like I said, I'll make my pick
five ticket, I'll spread. In the juvenile turf sprint, I
think Immersive or why is TT's Phillies name Scottish lastly,
one of those two almost have to win the Juvenile Phillies.

(01:30:45):
I think Lake Victoria will be tough if you want
a price in the Juvenile Phillies turf. I think sitting
in the dol Grass. I think she's a nice phillyes.
She's probably not as good as Lake Victoria, but like
Victoria's gotta run around a turn for the first time,
she's got to deal with the rail for a first time,
she got to go a mile for the first time.
She's supposed to win, but sometimes they beat them. You know,

(01:31:06):
maybe there's no fillion that that can be there, but
maybe she.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
Can be the South So yeah, I was definitely gonna
use Scythian in there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
So good.

Speaker 7 (01:31:15):
I like that.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
All right, Well, there's a good look at many different
breeders Cup Angles, Tumba Rumba thirty to one morning line
in the last race on the card, the Dirt Mile
and mid card for the first time, the Breeder's Cup Classic,
and City of Troy Nobrian from his mouth, the best

(01:31:38):
horse he's ever trained and should be pretty good, and
he is good.

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
Yeah, take my chances with that.

Speaker 3 (01:31:44):
Yeah, I guess. Okay a uh and you're gonna be up.
But Fingerlakes you're uh.

Speaker 7 (01:31:51):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
Annual Gig Mohican Sun. Great, you're in. If you're in
the Northeast coming over the Mohican Sun, say hello me
and Mike Muntnansky. Mike does be and Michael been doing
everything together for actually, I think now it's five six
years in a row. I haven't missed Mohigan for six
years in a row Derby.

Speaker 3 (01:32:13):
And you were there a lot before six.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Yeah, there a lot, Thank God, great place, great people
upon Brad Bryant runs the race book and sportsbook. A man,
Zach Montoya has been sick for a while. Hopefully he
gets back in action soon. We misses Zach and Zach
always listens to us on on this pod and they're
the old one place show used to love listening, so
I z accually give it a listen. So we wish
you Zach, and yeah, well have a good time. I'll

(01:32:36):
be to tomorrow Gamblin all day, so if you want
to come say hello, come say hello. And then Saturday
I'll be on stage with Michael all afternoon. So taking
you right up until about eight o'clock is the UFC
fight that we gotta get off stage four.

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
Okay, Big eight, appreciate your time and your insight always.

Speaker 4 (01:32:50):
As you know, you got a Joe.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
Good look everyone, Thanks to the Big A. Anthony Stabil
another City of Troy fan. That three year old boy
with all the talk here on our podcast from some
prominent people, maybe he's going to be less than five
to two and I think you got to probably put

(01:33:13):
him in your pick threes and pick fourth, but maybe
not a win bet. As Vince said in our previous segment,
you know, doing something for the first time, three year
old and all that at a very low price. All right,
time for some sports shorts, and I've got one. The
World Series is going on, Vince, and Vince's sports history

(01:33:34):
going back to the sixties is pretty pretty damn strong
in any sport. And somehow I got on this tack.
Oh yeah, I thought that the Boston Celtics first three
coaches might have won an NBA title. Well, Bred Aherbach
wasn't the first coach of the Boston Celtics, of course,

(01:33:55):
he won scads of titles in the late fifties into
the sixties. Then his accessor, Bill Russell, was a Celtic
coach of two championships. And then Tommy Hinsen who who
followed Bill Russell on the bench. He won two titles
for the Celtics seventy four and seventy six, So they
had three consecutive coaches. In baseball, you know you're going

(01:34:19):
to take a look at the New York Yankees, and yeah,
it did happen with the Yankees, guy named Bucky Harris
won one World Series. He was followed by Casey Stengel,
who won seven World Series in either ten or eleven years,
and then Ralph Howke wasn't really there all that long,

(01:34:39):
but early sixties he won two World Series. So the
Yankees had three consecutive managers win World Championships, and that's
really rare. There's tons of twos. But there's another team
from back East that has won three had three consecutive
managers World Series. And it's I know, if I gave

(01:35:03):
you any hint at all, you'd nail it. You might
even nail it right now, even consecutive seasons. No consecutive
manage manager won the World Series.

Speaker 4 (01:35:11):
Oh I think I do know.

Speaker 3 (01:35:14):
Let's let's hear it.

Speaker 4 (01:35:16):
The Orioles.

Speaker 3 (01:35:17):
God, dang, you are good, Hank.

Speaker 4 (01:35:19):
Would it be a Hank power? Earl Weaver and Joe
Altabell listen to that.

Speaker 3 (01:35:23):
That is awesome stuff right there. It's Carl brun that
is really good. Hank Bauers. Orioles of sixty six shut
out the Dodgers in the last three games to sweep
the Dodgers four games to none. Earl Weaver took over
for you know, twelve fourteen years, and then did.

Speaker 4 (01:35:41):
Come back after a couple of years.

Speaker 3 (01:35:42):
Yeah, and then Joe Altabelly. You know, I knew they
won the nineteen eighty three World Series, of course over
the Phillies, but I just kept thinking cal Ripkins senior
is you know? And then but I looked it up
and sure enough, that was Alta Belly's first year.

Speaker 4 (01:36:00):
Yeah, and we were one in seventy.

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
He won in seventy against the Reds and then lost twice.
Oh yeah, in seventy game series to the Pirates.

Speaker 4 (01:36:08):
Pirates both times with three to one. Well wait a minute,
well they were two nothing lead in seventy one and
a lead in seventy nine. Yeah, seventy nine they had
a three to one lead, Bruce Keison. But that is
great stuff. Vince Hank Bauer, Earl Weaver, Joe Altabelle. Three
consecutive Baltimore Oriel managers won the World Series. And you know,

(01:36:31):
you've got all kinds of twos, like I said, Dick
Williams and Alvin Dark and Walter Alston, Tom Lasorda, Joe Tory,
Joe Girardi. Going back, the Red Sox had a couple
going way back, Saint Louis, gas House, Gang, Gabby Street,
Frankie Fish.

Speaker 3 (01:36:46):
There's a lot of those. But that's that's my sport
short for today. Since the World Series.

Speaker 4 (01:36:51):
Is all right, I've got one and I might have
covered similar ground before, but I mentioned last time the
Blazers and the Sonics. Okay, this is opening Sonics home
openers seventy seven seventy eight, the year they start out
five and seventeen and come within one win of winning
it all. The Blazers come to town, they're the defending champs,
and they start fifty eight and ten, but then practically

(01:37:13):
the whole team got injured. Fifty and ten.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
Right, So the.

Speaker 4 (01:37:19):
Sonics starters on opening night of that season were at
forward Bruce Seals and Paul Silas, Mike Green at center,
with Fred Brown and Slick Watts the starting guards. You
know who the reserves were. They played ten guys that night.
Willie Wise, Okay, I can understand that Aba Star, Aba Star,

(01:37:40):
but basically was, you know, really on the down end
of his career. But coming off the bench that night
were Marvin Webster, Jack Sigma, Dennis Johnson, and Gus Williams.
All played limited time, and of course those guys would
all lead the Sonics Wow to the finals. Marvin was
gone on Webster, the big eraser, the human eraser, the

(01:38:04):
human eraser. Excuse me, he was gone after seventy seven
to seventy eight. He went to the Knicks and the
Sony Scott Loney Shelton compensation, but certainly Sigma and the
backcourt of Dennis Johnson and Gus Williams was. Boy, I'll
match that up with a lot of good backcourt, especially
when you got Fred Brown a instant offense off the bench.
But Gus Williams and the open court Joe, He's one

(01:38:26):
of the most exciting. He's underrated. He could, he never
did the same thing twice. He had a funny looking
shot kind of he could get it to go, he could.
But him in the open court was just it was electric,
changing directions on fall so fast, and his passing was great.
And of course Dennis Johnson was already an elite defender
at that guard anybody, Yeah, and really picked up his

(01:38:47):
game offensively too as the season went on. Was just
out of Pepperdine a great player. But I like to
talk too much about the old NBA, so.

Speaker 3 (01:38:56):
Well, I'm still impressed you getting that Orioles three managers.
That was pretty awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:39:01):
Oils were a great team of that era. They did
everything right.

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
Okay, those are some sports shorts. How about selections Breeders
Cup you usually have kind of a diamond in the
rough there, I've got one here in it.

Speaker 5 (01:39:15):
Okay, we'll go to the last Breeders Cup race, which
is the Breeders' Cup, Dirt Mile, the joe, they're just
the Breeders Cup Mile wulture at the eleventh race on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (01:39:28):
I thought the Dirt Mile was the last race of
the day.

Speaker 1 (01:39:30):
It is.

Speaker 4 (01:39:31):
This is the twelfth yea, the last old Breeders Cup race.
I should say a little confusing. There are two million
dollar race in the horse I like a little bit,
and this is mainly a trainer angle is number five
Goliad and you twenty to one on the morning line.
Comes off a win at Kentucky Downs where we went

(01:39:52):
wire to wire at almost ten to one, and before
that went wire to wire. Well, actually went twice at
Kentucky Downs in a week, which is really unusual for Mandela.
But he is six for sixteen at a mile. I
know you got horses like Carl spak Or six for
seven at a mile, but he is really fast. But
Richard Mandela in the Breeders Cup forty eight starts, nine wins,

(01:40:16):
five seconds, five thirds. That's running against the best competition
in the world. And he's fired many big prices, many
big horses at huge prices over the year. So I
think he's a live long shot. And just looking at
the training pattern, a series of six furlong grills and
with a four furlong interspersed in between them, he looks

(01:40:36):
like he is sitting on tilt. So everyone he's a
tank in the Breeders Cup. Yeah, I think he's got
a look by Warfront, and I think he's got to
look at a twenty to one morning line and you
know he's he can go sub forty five half and
hang around at the finish. So he's going to get tested.

Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
And who's riding Flavian Pratt? Yeah, Strout's a board who
did win on him at Kentucky Downs. Here's a seven
year old. You're talking about Goliad six career victories, but
for this year. So here's a seven year old that
has never been better.

Speaker 4 (01:41:08):
He loves the mile distance.

Speaker 3 (01:41:09):
He's very fast the work pattern, Yeah, yeah, okay, so
he is in race eleven. Race twelve is a race
that John mentioned.

Speaker 4 (01:41:20):
That is dirt mile glacious race there too. Yeah, and
that one of the horses he.

Speaker 3 (01:41:26):
Mentioned I think is a great value at the price
his number twelve move fasa. Okay, that's not the greatest post.
But this horse is real tactical, and he came from
South America. He ran in December of last year down
in Chile, and he had a really good record there,
of course, and he got beaten his first race as

(01:41:46):
the favorite at Churchill in June as he got right
near the lead at the eighth pole and then weakened
a little bit. Boy, he's come back with two really
good races. He won it Colonial real easily as the favorite.
Then he went to the Vosburg in late September, just
a few weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (01:42:02):
And he just dominated that race. That's the morning there.

Speaker 3 (01:42:05):
He's twelve to one, nice and he is nine for
eleven lifetime on dirt. He's four for four at the
distance of a mile. For some reason, I red Ortiz
is not riding him after riding him three times in
the US. Goffe owns aboard, but real tactical horse, by
practical joke, whose son of Into Mischief, who's just doing
super as aside.

Speaker 4 (01:42:25):
Did you have any push of any kind of the
Juvenile Juvenile Phillies on Friday? Those races kind of have
me scratching my lind life, you know what.

Speaker 3 (01:42:32):
I'd have to open up the form because I looked
at him, but I didn't pick anybody.

Speaker 4 (01:42:38):
Those are always interesting, of course, because we'll be following
some of those horses next year on the Triple Crown Trail.

Speaker 3 (01:42:44):
I'll say this the Europeans, you know our low morning line,
they're they're just perceivably better there. Their production has been better.
But a horse that interests me in Raise six on Friday,
it's the Juvenile Turf Sprint, the race that I did
mention this earlier in our first segment, that there's a

(01:43:06):
horse called Governor Sam who's a US horse and he
is twelve to one morning line, and Vince, what has
he done in his four turf races starting in July.
He's wonted four different tracks, that's always four US for four. Yeah,
he's by Improbable out of an Into Mischief Mayor George
Weaver runner Poco Lopez has been a board for the

(01:43:28):
last three super Tactical horse has post ten, which is
course toward the outside. But you know, I mean that's
a good two year old.

Speaker 4 (01:43:38):
Yeah. In the Breeders Cup, can you get a price
on a horse with those types of credentials.

Speaker 3 (01:43:42):
And you'll probably run fourth to three Europeans But you
know he's going into another new track and that seems
to be no problem. Did you have somebody in those
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
I have to take another look. I know Brad Cox
has a couple of hot shots, and so does Chad Brown,
the usual suspect. So we'll see. I'd like to find
a diamond in the rough there if I can.

Speaker 3 (01:44:02):
All right, Okay, there's a couple of selections John White
Section Segment two. More selections for the Breeders' Cup. Our
last trivia question was named the only woman to be
the leading stakes jockey for a season at Emerald Downs.
It's only happened one time.

Speaker 4 (01:44:20):
I would have guessed Jennifer Whitaker. That was wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:44:23):
Well, Jennifer won those four photo finished steaks aboard Wasserman
in two thousand and eight, but Chelsea Zupon won five
steaks in nineteen ninety seven. Tied with Frank Gonsalvez for
the leading stakes jockey that year. She won one hundred
races that year. Really fine rider, and she is the
only woman to lead the stakes jockeys for a season

(01:44:46):
at Emerald Downs. Okay, we had a couple guesses on that.
We got a Debbie Hoonan and Jennifer Whittaker, but we
didn't get a Chelsea Zupon, so all that the big
prize carries over. The new question is who's the first
Washington owner to win a Breeders Cup race? Send your

(01:45:06):
answer to Trivia at emeraldowns dot com. The first Washington
based owner to win a Breeders Cup race and that
wasn't mentioned on today's podcast. Thanks for listening, have a
great Breeders Cup weekend. Thanks again to John White and
the Big A, Anthony Stabil and our producer editor side

(01:45:27):
Lebar Joe with you and Vince brun on the Breeders
Cup Weekend at Emerald Downs.

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Breeders Cup Preview - Episode #138

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Breeders Cup Preview - Episode #138