John Lindley & Judge Chip Small Guest - Episode #149

More horses, more horsemen, better racing at Emerald Downs in 2025! This weekend is no exception with two-time Washington Horse of the Year Slew’s Tiz Whiz set to make his seasonal debut in the Saturday feature race at six furlongs. Slew’s Tiz Whiz has five EmD stakes victories, tied at the top with Aloha Breeze among active runners. Papa’s Golden Boy has four stakes wins here and he’ll meet Slew’s Tiz Whiz for the ninth time. Crowds and wagering handle are up at Emerald Downs through the first three weekends. This Saturday and Sunday, it’s Teacher Appreciation Weekend, with all teachers and school district employees receiving free admission. John Lindley of Parker’s tip sheet and Emerald Downs television and novelist Judge Chip Small join Joe and Vince as guests. Judge Chip will sign copies of his latest novel, “Stark Justice,” on Track Level Saturday.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Muchos.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
It doesn't matter if you love craps, blackjack machines or
dining on the finest Asian, American and Salish cuisines. It
doesn't matter what you do or where you're coming from.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Mucos.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
What you do is all at Muckleshoe, an easy drive
from wherever you are. All roads lead to Muckleshoe.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
Mucosuit as they round the tournament and run for home,

(00:52):
and they're five across the track now has a straightway
for the final prolong at the inside. Victorious charges right there,
but there those attracted and attracted, showing them what she's
all about. Now she opens clear two three and we'll
win it going away. Attracted home in front by four
or five.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
That was attracted with an impressive Emerald Downs debut last Saturday,
May tenth in our feature race Silvio Amador aboard for
blain Wright and owner Peter retakop As attracted now as
one three or four career starts. More good performances last
weekend Weekend number two at Emerald Downs. We'll be talking

(01:34):
about that Joe with Evince Bruin here on horse Racing Northwest,
John Lindley's going to join us right here in the studio,
and Judge Chip Small, a horse racing author, will join
us as well on this edition of our podcast. We've
got a couple days of racing coming up. The meeting

(01:56):
is off to an outstanding start, and first race Saturday,
and so at one it's Preakedness Saturday. In the world
of racing, We're going to be talking a little bit
about the spacing of the Derby Preakness in Belmont a
little bit later on, but the Preakness is this Saturday.
Gates open for the fifth floor at seven am on Saturday,

(02:19):
eight am on Friday. So eight am Friday, seven am Saturday,
if you want to get up on the fifth floor.
Pimlico has a big, large card that includes the Preakness
and Emerald Downs. We'll have our first race at the
same time. So vince some exciting performances last weekend.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
We saw some real terrific performances last weekend. We'll talk
a little bit more about the weekly honors with Plane right,
but he just off the top of my head attracted
who we just played. She ran a huge race off
the bench and I think we got a matchup maybe
looming in the Hastings next month with Loha Breeze, a

(03:01):
three time champion here, which would you know, if that
holds together, that'll be a terrific race. And see that Tiger,
one of the top two year olds here last year,
was really impressive in his debut, tougher than the rest
of stakes winner. He ran great. The competition is tough
here and it's reflected in some of the speed figures too.
And we've already had some big payoffs in the Handle.

(03:23):
We had a one point eight million last Sunday, So yeah,
I agree, we're off to a good start.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yes, some fine finally attended days. Last Sunday Mother's Day,
a really good crowd. Handle was good, as you mentioned,
so looking forward to that. And not unsurprising or no,
not surprising, not unsurprising. A lot of cowbreds have won
so far here this year.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Fourteen out of eighteen last week, Joe twenty three out
of thirty two to start the meet, which we've never
seen anything like that here before. Of course, we all
know we've got an influx of people from Northern California
this year. That's part of it. Dad's Caps is a sire.
He was done pretty well in the past. He's really
off to a great start here with four wins. I
looked him up. I'd forgotten he was a Grade one

(04:10):
sprinter back in New York and son a discreete cat,
and he was pretty fast and his horses seem to
really translate well here. Smiling tigers are running great here too,
So yeah, the cawbrids are cooking.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, makes sense with all the Northern California trainers who
they were training at Pleasanton. Of course they didn't race
there since late December, but they were training at Pleasanton
until mid to late March and then came up to
Emerald Downs and got a little head start on our
local people. And as we know, our opening day was

(04:47):
hardly any Emerald Downs regulars involved like two. Yeah, so
Cowbred's off to a good start. Favorites are running about
forty percent odds on favorites if your favorite better, we've
done pretty well eight out of nine of the odds
on favorites of one. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
And but having said that, we've already had three I
believe horses at forty dollars or more out of thirty
two races, so we're going to see more of that.
They're just working on the line this week and there's
a couple of races where I had to go three
to one or seven to two, like in a ten
horse field, which tells you it's tough. There's a starter
allowance for Phillies and Mayors Sunday, all seven of them

(05:27):
kind of look the same. We said that a couple
of weeks ago, and it being a thirty six dollars payoff,
it's just it's it's going to be competitive.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Name the only odds on favorite not to win so far.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
At the top of my head, I can't a.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Horse is running this weekend again.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Company's Dream, Company's Dream. Yeah, coming right back off the
claim and that's a tough race. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
So yeah, just a really good business. Great to see
everybody coming out supporting Emerald Downs. Interested in local thoroughbred racing.
We're going to have a good season this year. Be
part of it. We've got a lot of promotions. In fact,
this weekend is Teacher's weekend both Saturday and Sunday, and
if you're a school district employee, you don't have to

(06:09):
be a teacher, but you get free admission Saturday and
Sunday at Emerald Downs. We're going to have a teacher's
race on Sunday, and we're also going to have a
mascot race on Sunday as well. That goes back a
few years. We had mascot races before. They might be
running in the mud this weekend.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
They might. And we lead the world in different types
of competitions that are races, and we are a racetrack,
so why not.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, it's a racetrack. We've got a finish line and
a starting gate and a stretch and good viewing and
a big screen. So yeah, the usual in a lot
of ways. Training day, we did a training day today.
We got a couple of seed Row Tomao horses on
there and several horses working out. Bob Bean several workers

(07:01):
this morning. And training day of course doesn't is no
complete comprehensive thing, but we get out there and shoot
what we can and have info on each horse and
several horses with workouts today, so you can catch that
on YouTube. Emerald Downs Training Day, May fifteenth, and Vince,

(07:22):
you've got the comprehensive news and notes going on the website,
don't you.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
Those are up the first one. It actually covers the
first couple of weeks with all the speed figures and
standings and all of that stuff, breeding stuff, payouts and
the schedule. So yeah, a lot of stuff are racing.
We have a lot of figure filberts, right, and it's
horse racing is all about. So there's hopefully some useful
data up there for people.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, and something that was kind of hard to check,
but we had twenty different jockeys participate. Twenty one different
jockeys participate last Sunday. That's a big number.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
That's a huge number. And it's gonna be some you know,
like Alex Cruz are five time defending champion. He's only
got one win. I mean, it's tough out there right now.
I mean, Alex is too good. He'll get going, of course,
but seems to me it's going to be spread out
pretty much because he's Northern California. Guys they seem to
like to use the guys they're familiar with, right, you know,

(08:16):
And and guys like Blaine Wright. You notice he spreads
it around a little bit, Tom Wenzel, They use different guys.
So to me, it's going to be any one of
about seven or eight guys I could actually see competing
for the title this year.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Boy you said it, it's and Carlos Montalvo. How about him?
How well has he done here in his two years
with his opportunity. Yeah, he's he's got very few mounts
so far.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
Been one of the top stakes riders. Frank Alvarado, we
had him on. He's got four thousand wins. Of course
he's just getting started, but yeah, I mean he's kind
of hustling for mounts, looking for action. Julian Kuton, a
former writer. I mean, all these guys, it's deep. It's
very deep, and if you're a trainer and owner, you
got a lot of options.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Okay, Well, we've got stakes coming up on June twenty second,
that's still a little more than a month away. We'll
have four stakes that day, including well Sprints for Phillies
and Mayors and the older horses and both three year
old divisions, so a lot of two year olds still
out there training as well. Let's see what else we got.

(09:22):
Lost Marg's Cafe is open on the weekends through racing
and it's open till two pm on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
Lost Marg's Cafe in the stable areat Emerald Downs Pick threes.
I don't know. I think incrementally, I've noticed they're paying
a little bit better. They should be twelve percent takeout
on pick threes is outstanding.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
I've noticed a couple really yeah, eye catching prices that
you thought, you know, wow, that's pretty good payoff considering
the results.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
And the Racing Club had its first starter of the meet.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
We did Pacific Zip. She ran so so fifth, got
a little tired in the stretch, you know, it's one
of those. And one thing I've noticed really doing the
line this year is we've got a lot of horses
going turf to dirt from especially from Phoenix. And usually
when you think about horses going turf to dirt, it's
usually at higher class levels. But these are a lot
of you know, your eight and five thousand dollars claimers

(10:16):
that are transitioning, and to me, that is really difficult
to ascertain how a horse is going to take to
dirt because a lot of them don't have any proven
record on it. So it's if I don't want to
use the word guess, but it's a couple of them
I've almost had to because their turf figures are very big.
But I've learned a long time ago that turf figures

(10:37):
are way way, way different than dirt figures, so that's
going to be an interesting development. I like George Rosales,
for example, a former training titlist here, He's got a
lot of horses this weekend going turf to dirt, So
I'm going to see how that plays out. And that
was the point I brought that up is Pacific Zip.
She was a turf to dirt horse and that was

(10:57):
one of our concerns with getting a horse like that,
will they make the transition. So I'd say that the
jury is still out, but it's something for fans to
follow this year, just to see how those horses that
have been racing on turf at Phoenix can go to dirt.
And we'll maybe talk to John about that.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, let's bring in John Lindley right now. John Lindley
of Parkers, my TV partner on the weekends. John does
a super job and really appreciate having you part of
our presentation here at Emerald Downs again this year. John. Welcome.

Speaker 5 (11:27):
Yeah, Hey, thanks for inviting me on today. It's always
fun to sit down with the two of you, especially
through a great start to the year. I think the
expectations were high, but we've lived up to him and
last weekend we had some big efforts by some horses,
which you've already mentioned. But man, see the tiger, who
knows where he's going to end up, but as a
three year old in May, he's run a figure that
potentially could beat older horses in May as his three

(11:50):
year old year So we'll see where he ends up going.
But that was pretty impressive this week. And of course
the the other Philly, the Blainrate Wrights Barn two track
you talked about with the lower breeze coming up, that's
going to be a great matchup.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
John, What what about that? What do you do? Like
you're one of the best handicappers around here, and how
do you approach a turf to dirt angle? It's something
I'm kind of curious about because we're seeing it a lot.

Speaker 5 (12:15):
Yeah, your your original statement of a guess is appropriate.
I think I think a lot of cases. You can
look at some of the breeding. Sometimes you'll see, you
know clearly if you see European or Irish on the sire,
I just don't play them flat out, don't play them
when you see some of the horses that I know

(12:35):
can do both. The sires have had kids that can
do both, and I'll be a little, a little more
forgiving of taking that shot on dirt, I would either
play the horse or potentially pick it. But it is
pretty tricky because some of the horses will only have
run once on the dirt. It would have been maybe
a sprint when they first started, because the connections the

(12:56):
whole time, so you can't even really judge how they
did because they're one dirt rake could have been a
two year old race or who knows where, and so
I will try and go look that up. Sometimes you
can get some form. The horse you mL Racing Club
had actually run on the dirt I think three times,
but it had never routed on the dirt, and I thought, well,
I'm gonna give her a chance today. And she ran okay,

(13:16):
but she just never.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Being by idiot proof who's a good dirt sire in California,
you know, thought maybe the t I say, the jury
is still out, so we'll see.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
Yeah, So, but a horse like her would be one
I wouldn't be afraid to play.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Now.

Speaker 5 (13:29):
It didn't work out this last weekend, that doesn't mean
it won't work out next time or somebody else. But
definitely a lot of the year when we're until this year.
We haven't really had to look at it too much.
We've had some but when you're looking in the winter
California and other tracks, most of the time I just
threw out any of the European or Irish sires, but
the US sires I would respect that well.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
One thing I've learned doing in the morning line is
a horse going turf to dirt if they don't have
established dirt for him, I've been downgrading them, but looks
like to me the handy affers don't care. They see
those big buyers on turf and it's reflected with their
money at the windows, and a buyer is a buyer
to a lot of these people, and it's not to me.
I learned a long time ago turf and dirt are

(14:10):
very different when it comes to speed figures.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah, and I've tried to do turf speed figures on
and off through for the last forty years, and they're
very difficult to do for several reasons. One is, the
gate placement is always kind of if. The second is
sometimes they don't run more than one or two turf
races an entire day and that makes it a little trickier.
And then third as everybody knows turf racing is different.
It tends to not favor but the running is different,

(14:36):
all different, it's all different. So a figure has to
be you know, judged the way it's earned and such,
and it's much much more. You know, the buyer for
figures are great, but they do have flaws, of course,
and if you're looking at them in the racing form
to guess what a turf force is going to do
in the dirt, you are guessing. Now, we do know
that that's the only information we have in a lot

(14:57):
of cases, so it's better than none.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
But my point would be a horse on turf is beaten, Uh,
you know, you don't get beaten that many lengths usually
on turf, So they get these you're fifth beaten five
lengths and you'll still get a relatively high buyer, whereas
on dirt, oh you know, they get spread out.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, publicly, I double the beaten lengths when it's a
turf race. It's like, if you get beat two lengths
on the grass, that's that's to me, that's four on dirt.
Because they bunch up at the quarter.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
They do, they bunch up, and the horses that are
outrun kind of string along and are not beaten that much.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
And it's exactly it was not.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
As competitive a race by them as it might look
on paper. Anyhere, I get a little deeper in the week.

Speaker 6 (15:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (15:39):
Well, and to your point, Joe, Andy Bayer actually about
twenty years ago change his lengths beaten chart because of that.
Oh did he he used to you know, adjust for
a To me, he did, what he did is he
adjusted all the turf race is the same as a
dirt and he figured the same thing out. He's like,
wait a second, a length and a turf race is
worth more in a way in terms of getting beaten.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
And it is Okayank good.

Speaker 5 (16:02):
So I think what you knew was you were ahead
of the game there.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
I didn't read that book I've read. I guess I've
just read the one book on Andy my fifty dollars.
It's a fun book to read.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
It's a great book. And his first one, picking Winners,
is a classic. Two In my opinion, what's great about
Andy Byer is usually it's one or the other. They're
a great writer and they don't know the subject, oh
they or they know the subject with they can't write.
In the case of Buyer, he can do both and
it really is Uh. He spends some great yarns in

(16:33):
addition to teaching you a lot while you read his books.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Well, John has been handicapping in the Northwest for a
long time and he's done Parker's tip sheets since was
it eighty six or so?

Speaker 5 (16:45):
July seventeenth, nineteen eighty five. This is my fortieth year
coming off seventeenth eighty five.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Wow, jeez, Chum Sammon ding won the mile yet?

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, but I bet dear Rick that day. Okay, it
ran huge.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
You bet him?

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, you beat me by a head. I had m
doublem to win in place. I bet. I don't make
too much anymore, but yeah, dear Rick held him off
for second as Chum Salmon wooshed by both of them
to win going away. That was a That was one
of those days. I've said this a lot before too
into a mic that you know, I walked out. I

(17:22):
had to go talk to the jockeys get some quotes,
and I was. I was happy even though I lost.
You know, it was fairly sizable.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Bet.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
I thought, you know, that was such a great win
for Washington and a Washington bred horse, and it was
so exciting that I wasn't really you know, thinking about
my losing wager, which you really can't do if you're
in a publicist. John Linley does a super job. And John,
you know, uh, you know something I see from you
a lot that people should buy your sheet. I mean,

(17:52):
I don't know how many trifecta winning trifecta tickets you
give out on a daily basis. But John settles on
the best horse a lot. When I know ask him
for his win pick, he gives me one horse, and
a lot of times it's the favorite because he's done
his work and that horse looks like a very likely
winner and the fastest and figures, and he knows the

(18:12):
other facets too. But John has cash so many good
wagers by including other possibilities and buying extra tickets, maybe
singling a favorite on one and using three or four
on another. I just recommend people buy John sheet. Parkers.
It's only two dollars, and that's kind of your philosophy

(18:33):
to cover maybe a few bases.

Speaker 6 (18:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (18:36):
I think the timing when I got when I started
to come to the racetrack was when exotics started to explode.
I started the first year I actually showed up at
a racetrack was nineteen eighty one and we had a
daily double i think, and a five dollars exact. But
within what three or four years we had everything. And

(18:57):
because I I came a little later to the part
in one sense then maybe some other handicappers like Victor
Casetti and some other people that you know, exotics were
just natural to me. In fact, betting the horse to
win is fun, but exotics are the strategy behind betting
and the options and the opportunity the exotics just offer

(19:18):
a lot more so early on when I started doing Parkers,
that was what I concentrated on was smaller wagers where
you have a chance where if you're somewhat right, you're
going to do okay. If you're dead on, you're going
to do well too. But as we know, racing has
got a little randomness to it and some unknowns, and
that's what exotics can can can adjust. You can you
can adjust your betting to your what you like in

(19:42):
the race, while at the same time realizing that you
can be close and still do well. And as you mentioned,
that's something I've focused on and on the tip sheet
with you know, small wagers, fifty cent bets, that add
up to maybe six or ten or twelve dollars. That
to me is where the game is is to do
well and at the same time, you know, still cash

(20:04):
tickets here and there and potentially went over the long
term because you know, waydering's hard, but it's fun and
the strategy is always fun for me, especially an Exotic
way drin.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, and just to do one specific and I could
I can't name a lot of exact days, but I've
been sitting with John where you know, okay, he had
that eight to one shot on there and then he
gets a five to two and an eight to five
and the pick three ends up paying well. And he
just the other day he had a twelve dollars pick
four that paid over two hundred and forty dollars on

(20:36):
a sheet. But you know, you came back from the
Breeders Cup and he said, you know, Saturday didn't or
Friday didn't go well, and Saturday wasn't going well, but
you structured a ticket towards the end that did what.

Speaker 5 (20:49):
Yeah, I think a lot of people know this about
Exotic Wayderm too. You can go zero for nine and
have one race left, and for me, I was zero
for two days, and I was getting a little frustrated,
especially after Sierra Leone one, because you know, I could
Keith fierceness and I thought, Okay, I'm going to win
this race and everything's going to be good. However, you know,

(21:10):
he didn't win, and zero alone by him and I
skipped the next race, and I was like down to
just you know, I got I got a shot with
a couple upsets, and I wanted to be alive and
potentially with some big pays. And two of the horses
were local horses, you know, that were in there Straight
Straight No Chaser and Full Serrano who had been running

(21:33):
in California, that I knew were going to be really
good prices and at the same time wasn't sure they
were going to win, of course, but they were contenders,
and I thought some of the favorites were vulnerable, and
I played several pick three tickets and they were key
horses for me, and I ended up with a seven
hundred and fifty dollars pick three multiple times, which not
only paid for the two days, but the trip and

(21:55):
everything else and the next trip and a couple more trips.
But and that's what exotics offers. You, and it doesn't
cost a lot, as everybody knows. It's not like you
have to spend hundreds of dollars, especially with fifty cent betting,
and it doesn't take much to have pretty good pays,
especially on big days like Breeders' Cup or Kentucky Derby
or this coming weekend with Preakness and of course Emerald.
Now with the bigger field size, we're going to see

(22:17):
some nice payoffs, There's no question about it. With the
twelve percent pick three, that is a big discount on
what it normally is percentage wise. It's a great deal
for the betters. And I'm going to play a lot
of pick threes this year.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Okay. And as Vince mentioned earlier, already ten to one
or greater winners were I think we're twelve and a
half percent, which is above our yearly average quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah, and a couple of those when you look back
and they you know, sometimes you get a forty to
one chieze if I can bet this race again, I
still couldn't have that, but you look back and yeah,
they made a little bit of sense. You know, if
you kind of creative or something, you could I mean,
I thought cross the Causeway, for example, was a very
logical horse. It was just one of those races, is there.
You can't bet them all because they are all looked

(23:02):
super competitive on paper. One thing I had for John
was no secret. John had love speed and I kind
of lean that way too, all things being equal, and
our track profile here has you know, without being over dramatic,
it does tend to favor speed. You know, if you've
got a speed horse, it certainly and usually I got
to hurt you. Have you noticed anything at all this

(23:23):
year in terms of the track profile in the first
not at all.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
Actually this year, I think from what I can tell,
the track has been fair. For sure. Last year I
think we did had several days that it was very
hard to pass horses who had the lead leaving the turn.
This year we've seen several closers when in fact, a
couple of times the horses that were first, second and
third ended up back and the horses that were last
second to last third the last ended up one, two three.

(23:49):
So give credit there. It seems like a very fair track,
which is always positive for me because even if there's
you know, some sort of a bias towards speed, it
still becomes tricky as a handy kapper because you know
the riders adjusts, the trainers, we all know it. And
then horses are you know, sent hard early and such,
and it might change your style and it may not

(24:10):
necessarily be an advantage to know that. But so far
for this year, it's been a great year. It's been
a great start and hopefully it'll continue.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Let's talk, I'm sorry a couple quick ones. You mentioned
see that Tiger people who follow buyers. He got eighty six,
which again is pretty high for a three year old
this time of year. Horse got a seventy one as
a two year old, which around here is very solid.
And then Chuckinnut Bay, who is an eight thousand claimer
and now has run the two fastest six fur long

(24:37):
times in twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five, both
of them right around one oh seven and three. How
about those couple of horses.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
John, Yeah, we talked about see the Tiger, Joe and
I did prior to the race, and when you look
at his August fourth sprint of last year, and if
you want to go check videos out, it's fun to watch.
The rider on the backstretch was between horses. There was
a favorite outside of him and the horse inside it
of him, and he wanted, he wanted to get the
horses back and to relax, and he just could not
hold the horse back. And I think after a quarter

(25:06):
mile he finally gave up and said I'm just gonna
let him run, and you can see what happened, and
he just blitz that field. And of course in the
god seen futurity, it was you know, a different surface,
it was wet, and it was a different distance, and
he had some trouble into the first turn. But sprinting wise,
he's run two sprints and I'm not going to say
he's a linekers mile winner in May of his three
year old year, but his figure from this last weekend

(25:29):
would win a mile if he could do it at
a mile against older horses, which again he's got some
ways to go because the pace is going to be
hotter and such. But if that's the case, he has
that potential to be that good. We've seen two year
old sprinters, of course, many of them who have sprinted
greatest two year olds and kind of weakened his three
year olds and then but he improved from his two

(25:51):
year old to the three year old year, he did
have things his own way. He sat outside, he got
the chase a target, and he didn't really have any
pressure once he got the lead. And you know so,
but just based on that August fourth raighth of last year,
I could tell this horse he's he's got talent.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, you know when you mentioned the long acres mile, well,
it's worth mentioning his damn Ross's Girl has produced a
mile winner. Slews to his whiz, who coincidentally makes his
debut for twenty twenty five on Saturday this Saturday.

Speaker 5 (26:18):
Yeah, and then on chuckin' ut bay. I think, as
you mentioned, he has run some gigantic races on and off.
He's he's consistent in one sense and he's quick, but
some of his efforts he should have run better and
he did it. And some other times he just you know,
has dominated a field and he did have a nice
little trip there too. You know, when these horses like
him and see the tiger, they draw that outside posts

(26:40):
and they get that first quarter mile, they can kind
of relax but not necessarily have to go to the lead,
and then they come into the turn and they just
start to take command or whatever scenario is. They can
run their best races, and you know, we'll see what
he does in his next start, because you know, putting
two together for him, I don't know if he's done
it yet where he's run back to back, but his
figure is going to come back pretty good off that race,

(27:00):
and he always larry of a horse that runs so
fast when they come back their second time in two
or three weeks. But definitely has some potential and who knows,
we'll see what happens tomorrow, but maybe the Connection would
consider a stakes race for chucking up pay again because
we know he's done it before, and if he's running
really good and he's comes off a nice timing to
the race, that's a possibility and he would be formidable,

(27:23):
no doubt.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
John's going to stay with us for the second segment
before we take a break. The weekly honors from last week, Convince,
and we've talked about a lot of really good performance.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, we can probably guess a few of them. The
lost Margarita's trainer Blaine Wright five wins for the week
four on Sunday, and we mentioned Attracted's win on Saturday.
Blaine's got a looks to be a pretty outstanding barn
going this year. The Valpak Jockey of the Week, Sylvio Amador.
He's ridden a couple of those Blaine Right winners. He

(27:58):
had four wins last week and you know Sylvia Joe,
he was here when we began training back February and
we talked that he might set himself up for a
pretty good meet here laying the groundwork, and that sure
seems to be the case. Muchael Shoot Casino owner Peter
retakopp two for two attracted winning the feature on Saturday,
and then of wah another older Philly or Mayor with

(28:20):
a nice comeback win on Sunday, the Washington Bread we
mentioned chuckin'ut Bay Bred by Ron and Nina Hagen, and
the Lost Marks Cafe Groom of the week. Well, when
a barn has five wins, it's hard to overlook him.
Ishmael Fernandez, He's worked for a long time for Blaine Wright.
He had at least two of those winners last weekend,
so congrats to him.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
And the Emerald Downs Media Guide is available at Emeraldowns
dot com and just so much great information. You know,
I hate giving away potential trivia questions, but by just
our discussions here because you know, he got to work
for those you want to get something reasonable, But there's
tons of them I get from the media guide. One

(29:01):
I will give away. You mentioned Slew's Tis Wiz and
you've already mentioned a Loha Breeze. They are the active
leading stakes winners on the grounds. Each has five Emerald
Down Steaks wins. Papa's Golden Boy has four.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
He is in he's in that race.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah, whiz, let's see what was I going to look
up here?

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (29:22):
The I think you know this. Doris Harwood is our
all time leading stakes trainer, right boy. Blaine Wright is
one behind Tom Wenzel who's in second place. And those
two have been going at it for five years solid, yes.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
And they have a chance to be our top stakes
barnes again this year. And yeah, I think it's sixty
seven to sixty one, is it? I want to say
for Doris Harwood and Blaine right right behind him. So yeah,
that could conceivably go down this year.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Well, yeah, Blaine just won three races over the weekend
that suggest stakes pre Yeah, sixty seven for Hart with
sixty one for Weins, fifty nine for Blain Wright. On
all time Emerald Downs Steaks wins for trainers so that
battle will continue this year. And yeah, pretty darn good
feature race on Saturday with the Sles His Whiz, Papa's

(30:15):
Golden Boy, Perfect Dude. Papa is nine, Perfect Dude is
nine and training lights out and Slew's His Whiz is
now seven. And you know, we know those horses pretty well.
Perfect Dude hasn't been in here too much. He was
a stakes winner at Emerald Downs way back in twenty
nineteen as a three year old.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
I see that those horses have it over the others
in there myself.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
John, you've there take him a couple I'm sorry, Yeah,
I was going to make executive chef.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Oh he was he.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
I mean the figures maybe aren't as high, but he
was outstanding last year.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
And look who beat him.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
And he's got a great style.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
When he got beat Coastal Jazz, Yeah, giant game going
to mind, but oh he's just dogged.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
There's a horse in there, John, it's kind of might
like the Sedar Toma one. I can't remember the noun
performer count performer. He had three wins three seconds last year. Again,
maybe a cut below in class wise, but he certainly
fits in there and he's got a lot of speed.
In fact, that was one of the reasons I had
to kind of downgrade Papa's Golden Boy a little bit
because this horse looks like he can keep pace.

Speaker 5 (31:24):
Yeah, it's a tricky race, as you mentioned, because you know,
as you talked about, you have sluiced his whiz. Of course,
he's always going to be a contender no matter where
he's at. Papa, who's pretty quick. Early, I didn't really
know what to make of Town Performer because when you
go to the lead and claiming races, yeah, you're quick,
But he's also done okay from just off the lead.
So if I'm the connections, I'd like, well, look, we're

(31:47):
not going to gain anything by hooking Papa's Golden Boy.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
We don't need the lead.

Speaker 5 (31:50):
We might sit off. But another horse that we talked
about that Joe and I noticed in the paddock July
third was Whiskey Jack when he came out for his
first start as a three year old. We're in the
paddock doing the pre race stuff and he's walking around
and he looked like a keg of dynamite. He's at
that day on that race. We've not seen a horse

(32:12):
I don't think looks as good as.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
He did that day.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
Now in his subsequent race is now if you remember
the race, he broke about five lengths slow and blitzed
the field in the stretch, including the Dynamic Secret who
ended up being a pretty nice horse by the end
of the year. But you know, the timing after that
wasn't real good. He had he tried the Irish Day
race like twelve days later or ten days later, and
then he routed and then you know by then, when

(32:37):
you've had three hard races in a row, sometimes things
don't go out your way. And it looked like he
kind of tailed off at.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
The end of the year.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
But we'll see how he does his first start in
his four year old year. But basically based on that
July third race, we'll see him in the paddock. But
if he looks like he did, I would consider him
potentially an upset winner there only because of.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
That very first start.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
And you have to go watch that first race July third,
which you can see on the replays, but it was
super impressive and you know he's in the Lookarelli barn. Now,
he's had lots of workouts. He's unlucky to draw the
one hole. But you know, you look at that field
and we've talked about five of them and we're ignoring
some others.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
In naval Escort won his debut last year. You know
he wasn't a real.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Franquin Shoot Tribal Classic, right, he.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Had his best year at age six easily.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Incidentally, he wears blinkers. Now he had an accident, I
guess and is yeah, down in Arizona. Yeah, so that's
why you see blinkers on a horse coming off a
nice win.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Naval Escort by Coastguard. Yeah, local Shoot Tribal Classic winner.
So def this golden boy I'm hearing. I haven't really
watched him, we haven't had him on our training day,
but everybody's saying he looks great, is doing great. Owner
Gary Lusk I saw him, and you know he didn't
end last year all that well. He was just you know,

(34:00):
getting beaten the stretch pretty soundly. But he did win
first out last year over a really good field.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
And kind of surprising last year was he went off
at nine to one off the bench. I think he's
seven to two on the morning line or something, and
I kind of think, you know, you might, right, we
might see his best right off the bench.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
And I would expect that. Actually, he's had plenty of
time off and he was able to win off a
very long layoff last time. This is a much shorter layoff.
And you know some of these horses, you know, it's
not a surprise at all, they're going to run their
best right out of the gate, and he would be one.
I would expect that, and you know, drawn inside, you
know he's gonna have to break cleanly. But if he breaks,
Keanley and Town performer says, you know, I don't want

(34:43):
to chase him early. He's the horse to catch clearly
and definitely. You know his record at Emerald, I don't
know if he's he's I think he went out of
town once or twice, but he's just he's just super
fast and if it rains, which it might, it's not
going to hurt him.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah. That that race he did win first out last
year was in the slot. Okay, Well, John's gonna stick
around for our second segment. We have a horse racing
author coming up as well, but let's take a time
out here on horse racing Northwest.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
Mucos.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
It doesn't matter if you love craps blackjack machines or
dining on the finest Asian, American and Salish cuisines. It
doesn't matter what you do.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Or where you're coming from Mucos.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
What you do is all at Muckleshoe, an easy drive
from wherever you are. All roads lead to Muckleshoe.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Mucosuit.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
Way around the turn and head for home. See that
tiger kicks clear by two, make it two and a half.
The smoke is chasing and he's not talking. But out front.
See that tiger opened up by nearly a half dozen
in Going Away Sylvia, o Amador.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
And see that tiger home in front.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah that was See that tiger on Sunday at Emerald
Downs one oh one and four for the five and
a half furlongs, and see that tiger doesn't figure in
an answer for our trivia question, but he got me
thinking on fast times for three year olds in sprints
and Emerald Down's history, So that'll be a little bit

(36:29):
later in the show. John Lindley joining us Joe with
E Vince Brune here on horse racing Northwest first race
Saturday and Sunday at one fifty again. Teachers Weekend, Pass
it around, Teachers get in free. In fact, all school
district employees get in free both Saturday and Sunday. Mascot Race.
Plenty of great promotions coming up. The twenty twenty five

(36:52):
meeting is off to a great start and we want
to keep going on that. Okay, So the Triple Crown
Sovereignty did not enter the Preakness, which doesn't help horse
racing in general. And you know, I don't know if
it was three weeks between the Derby and the Preakness

(37:15):
if they would have entered. But you know, he's a
classic horse now, and you know, the Belmont certainly on
their radar. But guys, I'll go first. I would not
have a problem with weak changes in the scheduling of
the Kentucky Derby Preakness in Belmont. I mean, you know,

(37:35):
look at all these other sports. You know, well, things
do change, and it just the way trainers approach racing
and let the horse down then build them back up
again to the next race. You can't do that in
three weeks. But I think it'll help and I don't
see a real detriment. Vince, you got an opinion on that.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
I agree. I don't think it would hurt either. A
couple thoughts on that. One is just horses don't race
as often as they did thirty forty fifty years ago
when the Triple Crown, you know, when Citation was winning
or Secretariat in those all time greats. It's it's changed.
And two during COVID, we did have a little bit

(38:15):
of a change. Remember they ran the races out of order,
which you know was a lot of people didn't like
breaking tradition, But it seems like we got through that fine,
you know. And racing has a reputation sometimes of being
slow to evolve, and I wouldn't personally have a problem
with it at all if they had, like maybe an
extra week or two.

Speaker 5 (38:36):
If it was only an extra week or two, I
think I think, first of all, if it had been
a different trainer that trained the winner of the Derby,
if it'd been Baffort, he would be running Yep or
Lucas or Lucas or And I think for me, from
my experience, when a horse runds is top effort to
run back in two or three weeks, it's very difficult

(38:57):
for them to run the top effort again. I think
the big problem is we want to see the top
three year olds face each other more than once. And
if horses are skipping races because of the timing, then
we're not seeing the top horses three year olds face
each other, and that to me is the detriment to
the detriment of the industry and the fans. So the question, though,

(39:19):
is where do you space it? Because you have the
Travers in August, so you can't go out too far
or else the Travers doesn't become the race the Midsummer's
Derby as I like to advertise it. So I don't
know what you do. I think you know, you're right,
Joe training has changed, other sports have changed, you know,
the playoffs for all sports has expanded. I just don't

(39:41):
know timing wise, what you could do without interfering with
some of the other historical races that are important. And
of course you've got Plinical now, which is going to
be run by the state and it's going to be
new in three years. You have a new Belmont coming
up which is going to be pretty cool too, So
it would be nice if we have three two new facilities,
and of course Churchill Downs which has been renovated, to

(40:03):
keep that series going without making, you know, big changes,
But we do want to see.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I want to see the.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
Top three year olds in all three races. So how
do we do that without messing up later in the year.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Well, yeah, I don't think it messed up too much.
I did listen to a podcast and one fella said, well,
it really hurt the Preakness on their betting because they're
feeding off the Kentucky Derby two weeks before.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Wrong w r n G.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
If you go three weeks out instead of two, you're
going to get more horses out of the Derby, undoubtedly,
maybe one or two, maybe four, So that would increase
more betting. Plus the average joe who comes out and
we get a good crowd for the Kentucky Derby once
a year, what do they It doesn't make any difference

(40:55):
for them, you know, you tell them this is the
Preakness this day. Okay, good, Yeah, I like it. But
they they're not going to care on the difference in
two weeks to three weeks. Us guys who follow the sport,
we're gonna know and we're still gonna bet. So I
think it had helped the handle a little bit of anything,
because you'd have more Kentucky Derby top horses in the Preakness.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
So there's that.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
And the reason one guy said too about not running
sovereignty was, well, go dolphins. Looking to win the Breeders
Cup Classic as a four year old probably.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, that's getting that way out there, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
That's way out there, you know, how way out there.
That is the last time a Kentucky Derby winning, a
Kentucky Derby winner who won the Breeders Cup Classic at
age four or five Ali Sheiba thirty seven years ago.
That's the last time that's happened. They just have a
lot of money. A million five person doesn't mean much

(41:54):
to go Dolphin. They're spacing this source out for classics.
But again, you give them more time in between races,
they would consider it.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
So I guess one question some traditionalists would have and
I don't. That sounds like us three don't have a
problem with it, is it? Well that's any white Well yeah,
but if any horse would win the Triple Crown under
the revamped system with more time between say the Derby
and the Preakness or whatever, well then that that would
be a lesser achievement than when Secretariat or American Pharaoh

(42:24):
or Citation or any of the other all time.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Great, slightly different, but I still think you know, you
wouldn't argue the record books. Somebody might bring it up. Well,
now they got the advantage of more time off, but
they didn't want time off back you know when.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
But if they ran against more competitive fields because of
the time off, then it would be tougher.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
There you go, thank you at that point.

Speaker 5 (42:45):
Yeah, so it's a trade off. And if it could
work out, and we would keep a couple of Derby
because we've had some Derby winners not running the Preakness,
maybe more in the last few years and previously, it
would be ideal. And maybe you just run the Preakness
on on the Memorial Day and then you run to
the Derby three or four weeks later and everything's.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Good, or the Belmont, I'm sorry, north of July. Wouldn't
that be cool. That's going out a little far, that's
like a month after it is now. But it could
be worked out. He doesn't screw with their Memorial Day
met mile and all that. It would be past that
and just give them another huge day, especially if the
Triple Crown was on the line. Okay, well yeah, John
John White our frequent guest, he's against leaving the tradition

(43:28):
of that. At least he was last time we talked
about it. But I don't I don't see much downside
to it really if everybody can agree. But okay, John
Lindley has joined us, and again you know you might
want to spend two bucks on his Parker sheet. He
puts a lot of thought and he has suggested suggested
wagers every race as well that that you know, he

(43:53):
scores a lot. So John, give us one little tidbit
for this weekend.

Speaker 5 (43:57):
Yeah, on Saturday in race eight today, you know, Vince
talked about doing morning line, and I could it would
be really tough. You have horses from California, horses at
Emerald that haven't run, horses from Turf Paradise, and you
have the Santa Nita horses that are shipping up here
that don't really show really good forms, so you almost
have to go off their you know, their Golden Gate.
I'm not the golden Gate with the Northern California. So

(44:19):
I could I could see what you were talking about
earlier this weekend's card having some tough morning lines, and
you know you've actually done really well because we compare
it to the the dynamic morning line, and some of
them have been dead on, and the public's been pretty
good about figuring these horses out too, because even Sunday's
competitive races, I don't think we had a horse payover

(44:39):
eight or ten, twelve, ten or twelve dollars, but they
were still really tough races to handicap and come through with.
So you got to give the public there. But in
this race, I'm gonna look at number three te Tin.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
River Tiatin Tietin. I know that because spending three summers
in Yakama. It's right over by them. Tia. Yeah, I
was say Yakama about it.

Speaker 5 (45:03):
Anyway, you know, she ran two okay races and her
first as two year old and showed a little run
in her first race where she broke slow and she
steadied into the turn and made a move and then
got a little tired. And you know, her next race out,
you know, she probably should have done a little better there,
drawn that outside job, but she ran okay. This is
a little easier spot. The barn doesn't necessarily, you know,

(45:25):
break out of the gate winning a bunch of races
early in the year. But one thing to be remember
is we opened you know, April twenty seventh, but now
we're into almost week four, so we've had plenty of
time to get her ready at this point. So I'm
going to give her a slight call and we'll see
if she can just improve a little bit off her.
You know, her best two year old figure would probably
be good enough.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
To win here, Okay, Tieton River number three in the
eighth I wrote three six seven Tieton River on top
and I circled it and I said, better check your
work here because it's you know, it's one of those
maiden races. Tim McKenna's got a first year in there
with decent breeding notes. The two and others have shown

(46:06):
some speed.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Roman Bronze had a decent effort over the race tracks.
That'll be respected.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, and that's why it's it's a horse race with
all those different things.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
You know, it's Tiatan River. I guess that's how you said, Joden.
I remember the dam there Windy Point. She was really
nice philly around here. Yet for the same.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Owners and the second damn, I don't know why. I
guess it's a new way of me looking up the
female side. The second dam produced four runners and all
four were multiple winners, so it's it's a good family,
female family and one of those you know, first time
for a price, two year old, time off from to

(46:45):
three a lot of factors for trainer Jose Navarro. There, John,
thank you so much for coming in and adding your
expertise to our podcast. Always appreciate it. And we'll see
you this weekend, of course.

Speaker 6 (46:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (46:59):
I always enjoy I've been here, thank you, and we'll
see you a couple of days.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
Yeah, And I always enjoy listening to you two while
I'm up in my office working. You guys always have
some salient points out in the paddock on a little
comment on each horse I kind of like, and a
lot of times it'll tip me off to something I
had overlooked or whatever. So you guys are a great team.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Thanks Carl, Vince Broun Carl's real name. Actually, did you
know that, John?

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Okay, because you've heard me, Carl Carl. Okay, we'll take
a short time out and come back with Judge Chip Smalls,
a horse racing author here on horse Racing Northwest.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
It doesn't matter if you love craps, blackjack machines or
dining on the finest Asian, American and Salish cuisines. It
doesn't matter what you do or where you're coming from.
What you do is all at Muckleshoe, an easy drive
from wherever you are, all roads lead to ushoot.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Much us soon, Horse Racing Northwest, thanks for joining us.
Another weekend of racing at Emerald Downs. Seasons off to
a great start and some exciting action. Of course, two
time Washington Horse of the Year slewsed his whiz in
action his first out as a seven year old on Saturday.

(48:26):
Just one of the highlights. Another highlight on Saturday is
a book signing at the track. A great race fan,
Judge Chip Small from Eastern Washington, is going to be
signing copies of Stark Justice.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Yeah, Joe, let me give you a little background here
before we talked to Judge Chip. He was born in Mineola,
New York, and grew up in Mount Prospect, Illinois. Attended
Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois, and the univer Washington University
at the Washington School of Law. But he started practicing
law in Wanatchie, Washington, back in seventy eight, but thirteen

(49:06):
years later Governor Booth Gardner then appointed him to the
bench in June nineteen ninety one, and during his legal
career he received awards from the Access to the Justice Board,
the Washington Judges Foundation, the Washington State Bar Association, and
he retired in twenty eighteen after serving on the Shellane

(49:27):
County Superior Court longer than anyone in the history of
the county. Now upon retirement, Judge Chip became an author.
He's written a couple book, one of them on law,
but he had a lifelong thing of wanting to do
a thing on racing. So I read the manuscript, and

(49:49):
I'll read a little brief blurb about what I said
about it, and then we'll talk to the judge. Chip
Small expertly weaves a compelling tale of hope, devastation, a triumph,
written by a man who saw all as an attorney
for a prestigious law firm and later as a widely
respected magistrate with a gift for flowing pro Small writing
is reminiscent of the great Dick Francis, the former steeplechase jockey.

(50:11):
You authored a series of highly popular racing books. At
the center of Stark Justice is a jockey, Elmer Stark,
whose promising career is cut short by a freakish tragedy
which results in a civil trial when Small spares no
details on the machinations of the civil justice system. And
I got to say, Judge, you weave quite a tail.

Speaker 6 (50:33):
Wait will you read the next one?

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Well, it sounds like a you didn't use the word murder, Evince,
but sounds like a that's the next one, okay, Perry Mason.

Speaker 6 (50:45):
Although spoiler alert, there might be a murder in Star
Justice as well, but it's not the main part of
the book.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Okay, Judge Chip, great to have you on. And so yeah,
that is an outstanding resume. Boy, you have done a lot,
especially in Washington here. But your interest in thoroughbred racing,
where does that go back to?

Speaker 6 (51:10):
Well, first race I went to was at Arlington Park
when I was a little kid, and I'm into horses.
We've had horses for over thirty five years. They're not thoroughbreds,
they're trail horses. But what really got me was my
former client, Elmer Wright. His case was the inspiration for

(51:33):
his permission, and I discovered the courage, the strength, the
talent that every jockey has to have. They're incredible athletes.
I don't think they get their due. And I've heard
things people bad mouth how horses are treated in the system,

(51:54):
and that's not my experience. I mean, I'm not deeped
into it, but it seems to me that third reds
are more spoiled than my own horses, and my horses
are really spoiled. So I wanted to share his experience
with the justice system and basically his life story because
it was fascinating, and that's why I wrote Stark Justice

(52:21):
kind of as a tribute to him, and it ended
up becoming the first book of a justice trilogy. True
Justice is coming out next month. That's also inspired by
real life cases. Not when I was a trial lawyer
like Stark Justice, but as a trial judge. I had
a police officer a murder case that I'm writing about

(52:44):
in True Justice. And I had an ex husband kill
his ex wife. That's another case, and I'm weaving the
two of those together with a lot of the same
characters from Stark Justice will be in True Justice, and
that'll be the second book of the trilogy. And then
the third book that I plan to write next year
will be Blind Justice, and that'll be an inside look

(53:04):
on the bench on judges because frankly, that book I
wrote you reluded to it earlier, basically is the book
on how to be a judge and was endorsed by
the president of National Judicial College. And I want to
expose to the public but lack of training judge and

(53:27):
how we deal with that. Now that I'm retired operative word,
I'm not bound by the Code of Judicial Conduct and
I can basically share with people what I really think,
and I do it through my novels, and I do
it in person. So I think like the signing on
Saturday will give people an opportunity and not only get

(53:48):
a autograph copy for their dad or granddad for Father's Day,
but they can meet and talk with me and we'll
talk about whatever they want, whatever they want, chance to
unload on a judge.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
That's great. So a book signing at Emerald Downs this
Saturday event.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Yes, So from twelve to four pm. So you come
to Emerald Downs. You go under the big facade, the
entry gates, you go up the escalator and right there
to the left, right by the gift shop, we'll have
Judge Chip set up with his books and as the
judge said, you can meet him and talk to a
real life Superior Court judge and Joe. You and I
have always kind of been fascinated with the true crime

(54:28):
on TV and there's a lot of it, and I
know Judges shared with me when we first met a
couple of years ago in the cafe. It's just remarkable
some of the stories that judges can tell over a
thirty year career.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Oh my gosh. And these are novels. They're fiction, of course,
but as you said, Judge, Chip based on some of
your true life experiences.

Speaker 6 (54:51):
Correct, right, It's kind of like a lot on order
TV show. They're based on real life cases, but it's fiction,
and so I do. I do a lot of twists
and turns, and in fact, the Blind Justice one will
also involve a remarkable case that involved a serial killer
that I had and then one of the most violent

(55:14):
expendants I ever had. We had fifty thousand volts strapped
to his calf muscle during his trial, so actually didn't misbehave.
His lawyer was afraid he's going to kill him. So
I've been blessed with a number of high profile cases
in my career. I even had the oj Simpson IM
media team after his murder trial verdict came out. They

(55:36):
were in my courtroom up in Waterville, Washington for two
and a half weeks. People from New York, London, LA,
all over covered my trial. So I've been blessed with
rich experience, especially judicially.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
So you come out from New York. How again did
you end up in Washington State as a young man.

Speaker 6 (55:57):
Well, my wife was an only child, and when we
started getting serious, I told her we're moving where there's mountains.
So we came out to Expos seventy four on our honeymoon.
In fact, we celebrated their fiftieth at Saint L's on
Gonzaga's campus because we're Gonzaga season ticket holders, and all
three of our kids went to Gonzaga for undergrad and

(56:19):
we fell in love with the state. When we came
out for Expo, I had a package honeymoon deal where
we also spent time in the San Juans in Seattle area.
Just fell in love with the state and waited a
year my wife to graduate, and then I got into
U doub law school and we ended up in win Acchi.
We thought that was the best place to raise our

(56:40):
family and we've been here ever since. We love it here.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
That was great expos seventy four in Spokane. Yeah, the
World's fair.

Speaker 6 (56:48):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
And so you've been to Emerald Downs, I take it
a few times, not many, but yeah, okay, Well, boy,
if we get a sunny day, which it doesn't look
like it's going to be.

Speaker 6 (57:00):
This doesn't look like it, I'm thinking I got will
the racing Form tell me who's who's good at being
a mutter?

Speaker 1 (57:07):
It helps? Yeah, yeah, they have some they have some twists.
But boy, we've got just an absolute spectacular view of
Mount Rainier here.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
I mean, it's just yeah, hope it's out, yeah Saturday.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Those of us that see it, it's still marvel at it.
And you know, Vincent and I have been in this
Western Washington a long time.

Speaker 6 (57:27):
So when we when we first moved to Seattle, we
got a job managing an apartment building to get free
rent because we're just broke students. And we asked our
friends that we had met, which one is mountaineer, because
we're looking at the cascades. And they said, oh, no,
you'll know it when you see it.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yeah, boy, were they right? Boy, that's exactly right. Judge
Chip Small is going to be selling copies of Stark
Justice on Saturday at Emerald Downs. Looking forward to that,
I am.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
I'm looking forward to getting my own autograph copy from
the judge and uh for to seeing you and uh
thanks again for uh thinking of us and uh well
when they reached out.

Speaker 6 (58:13):
Yeah, and for your for your listeners that can't make
it for whatever reason, they can also go to Amazon
or Barnes and Noble or my website Judge small books
dot com and get a copy. But it won't be
autographed and you're not going to be able. That's talk
to the judge and tell it to the judge.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
That's right. So Barnes and Noble we'll have copies.

Speaker 6 (58:32):
Yeah, they have it. And Amazon great as it as well.
Uh and my website you can order right off my website,
Judge small books dot com. Still early enough to get
it in time for Father's.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Day Judge small books dot com. Very good.

Speaker 6 (58:46):
But women love it too, I got. I had a
lot of characters there, as Vince will tell you. And
there's one in particular that most women I talk to
love to hate her.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Really, I know what you're referring to. Yeah good, so,
uh okay, possible screenplay down the road, who knows. But
for right now, let's take a look at Stark Justice
on Saturday, and we'll welcome Judge Chip Small's Judge Chip
Small to Emerald Downs and Judge, I'll be meeting you

(59:18):
Joe Whitie, and maybe you can slip out to the
paddock and just say some words live and and just
remind the folks of where you are and what you're
doing there on Saturday. So we'll do that too. Yeah, great, okay, well,
thanks so much for joining us on horse Racing Northwest.

Speaker 6 (59:35):
Thanks for having me, guys.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Thank you see you Saturday, Judge Chips Small and his
book for sale, Stark Justice. Good to have Judge Small
on on you know the show.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
One thing you and I like and racing you meet
a lot of different people from different.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Vocations, and this guy has been there and done it,
that's for sure. Okay, Well, let's wind up the sh show.
We're in our final segment, Sports Shorts. Pete Rose for
the Hall of Fame. Yes, you know, when you start
getting into morality, it gets really tough. Pete Rose is

(01:00:13):
one of the greatest baseball players of all time, multiple
World Series of course, the all time leading hitter or
hits leader, and then you've got. You know, why are
not Barry Bonds, Mark mcg Roger Clemens, to name a
few in the Hall of Fame. Why it was because
they lied and people don't like them. I mean, Mark

(01:00:34):
McGuire's up arms got as big as Cortes Kennedy's thighs
and Barry Bond's neck and his fly balls just started
flying out of the ballpark every time. And I don't
know Roger Clemens in pitching. It's hard to define the
actual physicality thing, but he sure had a long career.
And so those guys lied. I mean, if OJ Simpson

(01:00:57):
and I know he was acquitted from the murder charge,
but you know, there's those of us that believe that
he is guilty of that double murder. I mean, if
he had done that two years after he retired and
he still hadn't been voting, I mean, but in all
kinds of people voting against him. So the morals thing
is one thing. But Oj Simpson was was certainly a

(01:01:20):
Hall of Fame football player. So I'm saying I did
hear this on a podcast. You know, you got to
put these people in. But the copy on their plaque
includes a little bit of negative stuff. Too. So anyway,
I'm for Pete Rose going in the Hall.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Yeah. One thing I've learned is sometimes you got to
separate the art from the artist, you know. That is
sometimes I may there might be an actor I really fancy,
and then I read an article where maybe I don't
agree with some of the things he says, but I
can still appreciate. Yeah, the supreme talent they have been
Pete Rose, You and I that was we certainly saw

(01:01:55):
him play a lot, and no one played the game
with more integrity. And I hate to use that word
with Rose, but he never missed the game, right?

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Did he have a few one hundred and sixty two
game seasons?

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
They sure did, And he played several different positions, and
no one played harder. Nobody played harder now.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Than he ran to first base Charlie hustle.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
When he walked, And it was not a cliche. That
was just how he played the game. And yeah, I'm
with you. I think he should be in the Hall
of I mean, just like he's you know, all the
just for the hits alone, you know, you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Know, and betting on baseball was certainly a serious offense,
and he committed that offense and Vince and I both
believe him when he says he didn't bet against the Reds,
but still betting on baseball can change it. No, no, yeah, okay, Vince,
your sport short mine is a little bit lighter than that. Well, yeah,

(01:02:50):
maybe it does kind of relate to baseball. When I
say the word or the number fifty six, what is that?
What do you think of in sports? Joe DiMaggio's hitting
streak correct?

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
But you know what I think think of? Well, it's
five somewhere who's running in the first race on Saturday
here at Emerald Downs. It's five somewhere is on a
fifty six race, losing streak going into Saturday and not
meaning to make light. The horses run many competitive races.
He has seven career wins, nine career seconds, and thirteen
career third has made one hundred and ten thousand, but

(01:03:21):
not since July seventh, twenty twenty one, has It's five
somewhere won a race. So fifty six and counting for
a nine year old gelding by stay thirsty.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
There's a certain radio talk show hosts from older days.
He might not have got that fifty six number that
you threw out there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
You know, I was thinking of that exact same thing.

Speaker 6 (01:03:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Still, you know, there's probably a lot of answers to
that number. So I just happen to pick one. Okay, Well,
we'll see how that fifty six. What's his full name again?

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
It's five somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Oh yeah, I'm sorry, it's five somewhere. Does in the
first on Saturday? Number one? He'll be all right? So
there's selections. Last week I went with a couple of
chalk horses, attracted one on Saturday and Sunday, I believe,
Oh no, this wasn't a choc dynamic secret. He tried

(01:04:15):
to stay with tougher than the rest, couldn't quite stay
with him and faded off that so my ROI was, well,
it was slightly winning because attracted somehow paid like four
to eighty. She went up at the end.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Did you notice that I did? Because Victoria's charge came
down to seven to two from eight very very late. Okay,
and yeah, and a plus it was an eleven horse field.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Oh you know it's again the strengthen numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Okay. Well, two weeks ago the trivia question was who
is the most recent Washington bred to win at Churchill
Downs prior to paint you Later during Kentucky Derby Week, Well,
you know what I had the wrong answer there? I
said it was huge Bigley in twenty twenty one. Mike
Pooich won with West Coast Harbor last year in a
maiden race West Coast Harbor of Philly by Coastguard and

(01:05:08):
out of Point to Harbor. Ron Bowman's Mayor won Broker
Maiden at Churchill last year. Bob Cappelletti heard that and
corrected me. Thank you, Bob. You know that probably all
the all the listeners out there now, boy Joe's asking
these questions he doesn't even know the answers to. So
I was wrong on that one, okay. And then last

(01:05:29):
week's question was and I already said it earlier in
the show. Here the most recent Kentucky Derby winner to
win the Breeders' Cup Classic as a four year old
or older, it's thirty seven years ago. Ali Sheba Russ
Knakagawa got that. Michael Tarlow got that. And you know
that one wasn't too tough to look up Breeders' Cup

(01:05:49):
Classic winners and horses ages and then see did that
horse win the Derby. Well you got to go way
back on that one thirty seven years Ali Sheba, all right.
This week's question is who has the fastest six furlongs
for a three year old in Emerald Down's history? Which
three year old has run the fastest six furlongs? And

(01:06:13):
a lot of talk on see that tiger with his
ability to sprint last year and last week. You know
he could threaten any speed record, it seems right now.
So that's the question. Send your answers to Trivia at
emeraldowns dot com and Vince, we're looking forward to get
a copy of Judge Small's book this weekend Saturday really

(01:06:34):
are and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
You bet you mentioned the forecast not looking so great,
but yeah, I still think our fields are going to
hold together pretty well.

Speaker 6 (01:06:44):
We have.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
We've had a little moisture in the track a couple
other days and people are here to race this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Year, okay, And also the Dori Monson Memorial Purse on
Saturday as well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
How many years been this is the third year. Unbelievable
that it's already been three.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
So we'll see Suzanne, his widow, and other family and
friends as we're all including that stretch. Johnson and Paul
Moyers has got to come out Brandon Cruz as well.
Thanks for listening to horse racing north West