October 1, 2024 • 41 mins
Dan thinks it would be hypocritical to let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame posthumously. Former NFL and College Football head coach Herm Edwards joined the show today to discuss the development of Washington Commanders quarterback Jayden Daniels and Hall of Fame catcher Johnny Bench stops by to help us reminisce on the amazing career of Pete Rose.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Pete Rose, passing away at the age of eighty three
is former teammate Johnny Bench. A little bit later on.
Growing up in Cincinnati, we all wanted to wear number fourteen.
We all were sliding head first. We wanted to have
the same haircut as Pete Rose. So he certainly had
an impact on me. My first autograph was from Pete Rose,
(00:24):
and he wasn't charging back then, but I have had
many many interviews with him, interactions with him. He said
a lot of things to me on my radio show.
And when I first got to ESPN was nineteen eighty
nine and I left CNN went to ESPN, and then
a few months later I'm on the eleven o'clock Sports
(00:46):
Center with Bodley, one of the great sports journalists in history.
So I come in and the Pete Rose situations unfolding
right in front of me. Now, I used to gamble
and one of my bookies used to take bets from
Pete Rose. So I say to Bob Lee, Bob, I
got information here, and I'll put that coverage up against
(01:09):
any network of what we did covering Pete Rose in
large part because of Bob. But I did have a
connection and I knew exactly what was going on with
his betting. Now, I never found out if he bet
while he was a player on the Reds against the Reds.
And I know that there's this outpouring of sympathy and
(01:31):
sentiment for Pete Rose to be in the Hall of Fame.
Nothing has changed from yesterday today to a week ago
with Pete Rose. It's just sentiment here to get him
in the Hall of Fame. And what I like to
see Pete in the Hall of Fame. It's a museum.
If you want to tell the story of baseball, then
(01:52):
do it that way, because I know that there'll be
a lot of people old schools say, well, he's staying
the game, embarrassed the game. He never really apologize until
he was writing a book. I mean, there's so many
angles to this, and I don't want this to take
over the show because there's nothing new that I can
add to this that I haven't already told you about.
(02:13):
Whether he told me that he only bet on the
Reds to win, he had never said that before, so
every game he was betting on them to win, and
it was a game that he was managing. I did
wonder about this too. Let's say Pete didn't manage until
the sixth year he got out of baseball. He retires,
(02:34):
five year window, he goes into the Hall of Fame,
first ballot, The Reds bring him back and they want
him to manage. Would Baseball take him out of the
Hall of Fame? And understand this, the Hall of Fame
is different, separate from Major League Baseball. This is owned
and operated separately. Now do they fall in line with
(02:55):
Major League Baseball? They do, but they do it by choice.
If the Hall of Fame said we want Pete on
the ballot, he could be on the ballot. Jeff Idelson
for years has said that to us, he runs the
Hall of Fame if they chose to do that. Now,
once again, it's the Baseball Hall of Fame, it's not
(03:16):
the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame. But if they
wanted him on the ballot, they could put him on
the ballot. But all I've ever said is it's like
he he cheated in grad school. I can't take away
his undergraduate degree. And he was sumacum laude when he was,
you know, undergrad, and then he became a manager, and
(03:37):
then he's betting on baseball. And if you look at
the wording here of you know, what they put out
as far as you know Pete's suspension, and I think
people have this misunderstood on you know, it's not a
lifetime ban, but that's the way it's praised. It's, you know,
(03:58):
it's an employment ban. He he can't work in baseball.
He could never work in baseball. And that's what people,
I think for good And if you look at what
you know, the role that he broke, Any player, umpire,
or club, or league official or employee who shall bet
any some whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with
which the better has a duty to perform, shall be
(04:22):
declared permanently ineligible. So it's not a lifetime ban. This
is permanently ineligible from working in Baseball's that's really the
punishment here. And then you have people who are saying, well,
it's a lifetime ban, his life is over, is the
band over? Well, it wasn't a lifetime ban. It was
(04:43):
permanently ineligible from holding a job in Major League baseball.
I want to bring back a clip that I had
with Pete Rose, and you know, once again we talked
about a variety of things, but I did ask him
about maybe getting into the Hall of Fame posthumously.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know, they make one thing clear that if I
ever get an opportunity to go to the Hall of Fame,
I'll be the happiest guy.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
In the world.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Do you think it will happen before?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I don't know. I I still haven't given up on
Bud see it. And I know you know this as
well as I. I mean, whenever whenever someone asked Budd
Sealed about Pete Rose, he says, uh, well, we're we're
thinking about it, you know. I mean, if you're not
going to give me an opportunity, but please just tell
(05:33):
me and and and you won't. You won't bothering. I
won't send him letters. No one from my side will bothering.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Would you rather know now that you'll never get into
the Hall of Fame as opposed to that possibility of
getting into the Hall of Fame, Well.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It ain't going to help me a damn bit if
I'm dead. I mean, the Hall of Fame for your
family and your friends anyway. But you know, like it
was saying, I think the way they handle Ron Santo.
Next year they put him in broke Heart. Yeah, I think.
I think in baseball, the more Hall of famers you
have walking around, especially tomorrow, more Hall of famers you
(06:10):
have walking around talking to people, the better off of
your sport is. And you know, I'm not going to
break the rules again. I mean people ought to know that.
I mean, you know, I've been suspended twenty three years.
It cost me a lot.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
It cost me a lot.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You know, you could suspend these guys making twenty million
for a long time and lose as much as I did. Now,
I'm not whining now, I'm just telling you the facts
of the situation. And you know one thing I never did, Dan,
and you agree with this.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I never never cheated.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
To people when I played the game of baseball. Okay,
regardless of what I did, I always played my ass
off when I played the game of baseball. I always
put the fans first. I understood the importance of the fans,
how important the fans work to the game. And I
guess that's somewhat the reason I played the way I did.
And I think I influenced my teammates. And you don't
(07:03):
have bad things said about me to my teammates. I'm
not one of these guys that's been in a bar fight,
run red lights, beat somebody up. I mean, you don't
ever read it. The only thing you ever read about
me is I gambled, and nothing else. And if you have,
I don't know what it would be. So you know,
I made a mistake. I made a big mistake, a
big mistake, a huge mistake. And when Giamoni told me to,
(07:27):
you know, to reconfigure my life, I misunderstood him. I
thought when he said reconfiguring my life, that meant no
more illegal game in which I don't do, be very
close to people you associate with, which I do. But
what he meant and it took me years to understand
this take responsibility for what I did. And I did
take responsibility for it. But there's still people that just
(07:48):
won't let it go away. We're talking about something, man,
that happened. I was suspended in nineteen eighty nine, eighty nine.
You know it's time to get over it.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's from July twenty fifth, twenty thirteen. It took Pete
a long time to say he was sorry or show
any contrition. And I know that that bothered the previous commissioner,
Bud Selik, and we had had public conversations on my
radio show. We had private conversations about Pete Rose, and
it just became a story that they wanted to go away.
(08:23):
But every year at Cooperstown, Pete would be their signing autographs. Meanwhile,
you would have other people having their day at Cooperstown,
but Pete would sign on autographs. Nobody has benefited more
from not being in the Hall of Fame than Pete Rose,
because now he became more of an attraction now that
there was the Well, let's root for Pete to get
(08:46):
into the Hall of Fame a cause if you will.
And I've always said that in what Pete said there,
I never got cheated ever when I went to see
Pete Rose play, never and he won more games than anybody.
We know all of the stats. But I think Pete
thought that was enough that there would be an overwhelming
(09:09):
sentiment of one of the great players of all time,
he's got to be in the Hall of Fame. Well
he doesn't. And now it would be hypocritical if you
put him into the Hall of Fame now, because why
are you putting him in now? Nothing's changed unless you're
saying we punished him. Now for his family's sake or
(09:33):
Baseball's sake, we're going to put him in the Hall
of Fame. If you want to put the steroid guys
in there, put it in. Put him in. Even if
you do that, maybe you don't let them have their
day where they give a speech. You're in the Hall
of Fame. There is no speech. We want to tell
the story of baseball. Fine, but Pete Rose Pete is
(09:58):
his own worst nightmare, his own worst enemy. What made
him great is what kept him out of the Hall
of Fame. He could just never say sorry, what can
I do to give back to baseball? And I remember
having a conversation with Commissioner Seely, and I brought up
the idea of having Pete go through the minor leagues
(10:19):
and just tell the players what he sacrificed, what he lost,
and do it on his own dime, and just go
around and tell people this is a cautionary tale. You
can have everything and you can lose it all. And
he was really really popular, not just baseball, not sports popular.
(10:41):
Pete was popular. And that might have resonated with some people,
and it would certainly resonate with Major League Baseball, but
Pete couldn't come to grips with that. And then he thought, hey,
I'm betting on my team to win. Well, you'd still
manipulate the lineup. It's Pete needed to compete. You can't
(11:07):
spell compete without Pete. Michael Jordan's same way. They're wired
that way that they have to have something going on.
There has to be something there. And Pete wasn't a
good gambler. My bookie would say, you know, because I'd say,
who's Pete Betanon. Now there was a main bookie in Cincinnati,
(11:30):
Indian Hills, and then my bookie was in my hometown,
and then he would get bets laid off to him.
If you're into gambling, then you know what I'm talking about.
Don't want to get into the weeds too much. So
I was aware. I was there in eighty six and
it was postseason. Pete was there and he might have
(11:51):
been working for somebody, but I remember he said to
Bob Costas and me, who do you like today? It
was Mets Astros. When somebody says who do you like today,
that's gambling.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Who do you like?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
And I know it. I know the code because people
still ask me, who do you like? I go no, no,
don't bet on it. And so Pete was probably betting
on the Astros in the Mets, and if Mike Scott
was pitching, he was probably betting on Mike Scott to
beat the Mets. But you can't put him in the
Hall of Fame now because it's hypocritical. There was the opportunity.
(12:31):
I was hoping that there would be something that was there.
But if you open the door, are you opening the door?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Then?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
For everybody, Pete didn't cheat the game in the sense
of what the steroid guys did. He broke a posted rule.
It's right there there. It's the cardinal rule. It's right there.
Every clubhouse has it. There's nothing in there that says
don't use steroids, but it tells you do not bet
(13:02):
on baseball. And Pete did it. But Pete thought he
was bigger than the game, and he found out that
he wasn't. But great memories, big red Machine, best best
hitting lineup certainly in National League history, and a lot
of great memories. And Johnny Benchell join us coming up
(13:22):
a little bit later on to talk about Pete, but
passing away at the age of eighty three. You know
who I felt really sad for was to ken Bay
Mtumbo's family because he passes away, and then hours later
it's announced that Pete Rose passed away, and it made
me think about Farah Fawcett was really really famous Charlie's Angels.
(13:47):
She passes away, and then hours later Michael Jackson passes away,
and the coverage changed and went right to Michael Jackson,
just like Pete Rose and to ken Bay Mutumbo is
one of the more giving people, not just athletes, I've
ever encountered. He wanted to help people in an Africa.
(14:09):
He wanted to be able to be a goodwill ambassador
for the NBA, and when he got out of the game,
he wanted to know how to give back. And David
Stern would talk to me about certain players, and he
always loved the Kembe because he said he wants to give,
he wants to have a bigger impact, and I always
(14:30):
appreciated that. So he passes away and then hours later
it's Pete Rose.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
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Speaker 2 (14:44):
App is Herm Edwards there. He is the ESPN football
analyst and of course former defensive back. We were just
wondering this, Herm. You gave us the famous slogan you
play to win the game? Did you copyright then?
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Have not? So it's open for use.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Okay, you can. You can do T shirts, you know.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Yeah, I know I've been told that. I keep saying
I'm gonna do that, but I haven't done it yet.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So if I gave you the Lions or the field
today in the NFC, in the NFC, who you taking well?
Speaker 5 (15:21):
The way they played last night, especially the second half.
I mean, this was the game that when you watch it,
the first half was a regular NFL game, you know,
seven it's twenty one, okay, it's kind of and then
the second half it was twenty three to twenty eight,
and I'm going that's just that's like, that's like a
whole NFL game in one half. I mean, the yardage
was unbelievable. And Jared Golf, I mean, is as good
(15:45):
as he was he only he only threw it like
eighteen times. Yeah, it didn't throw it a lot, you know,
explosive offense with those two running backs. He really played good,
and they played good in that Dome as well. But
but I kind of liked the lines. But you know,
I'm kind of leaving them on. I hate to say this.
I'm falling into the trap with the Minnesota Vikings right now. No, no,
(16:07):
I'm falling into the trap.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
I keep saying I don't want to do it, I
don't trust him, and then he keeps troving me wrong.
So they're pretty good right now, the Vikings.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
That's September football. We're talking about her.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yeah, I know, only in September.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
I know.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
You have me back like it end of November.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
It feels like there's always one or two or three
teams that surprise us each year. I thought at the
beginning of the year the Falcons and the Commanders were
going to be the surprise teams. At least two of them.
You coached Jaden Daniels and at Arizona State. I guess
you're not surprised. What's your reaction to what you've seen
(16:53):
through the first month?
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Reminded me when I had him there. You know, I
talked to him every week now when he when he
when he left, and obviously you know through the n
l I and all that stuff with the l s U.
I would talk to him every week and still do
not surprising at all. The game is never too big
for him. And then you know, and I told you
this for he reminds me a lot of Randall cunning him.
(17:18):
And I told him that when he's playing for me,
he's about the same height, the same size, can throw
the long ball very well.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
And now the more he plays, obviously the speed of
the game is just all of a sudden slowing down
for him some. But he's got this team with you know,
he's given him a hope all of a sudden, Washington.
If you'd have told me at the end of four
weeks that the Washington Commanders are in first place in
the into the NFC East, I would go, Now, really,
(17:48):
what a rookie quarterback?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Does it concern you? Or how much does the running
with Jayden concern you?
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Well, you know, and that's always been a concern because
he's not the biggest guy. But he's become a smarter runner.
And that was kind of the conversation. I haven't put
him all the time, and I said, look, you got
to know when the journey's over and I said, you're
going to learn how to slide, because he hated his slides.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
And.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
I told him for the last week the week before
he didn't slide, So like I get on him. I said, man,
start sliding, that's just the NFL. Then they're going to
hit you. I said, you got to be available ever play.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, I see RG three situation here where you have
that speed and RG three didn't slide. He was taken
on defenders. And you know, I just I always say,
you know on the show, live to see another play.
You don't have to be a hero at that position.
It's like TWOA got injured. He didn't need to be
(18:48):
in that situation.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Oh no, No, that was just silly. It was almost.
It was almost his injury was one of those he
was trying to be tough. You don't have to be tough.
Just finish the game. That's your job, quarterback. You start
the game, finish the game.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I respect tough, but I don't want my quarterback to
have to prove he's tough. I need smart. There's nothing
wrong with sliding fetal position. All of those Peyton manning.
You want to follow Peyton's script, just fall in a
fetal position. You don't have to go after the guy
who picks you off.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
No, No, And you know, and that's what they pay
you for. They pay you to start the game, to
finish the game. When you don't finish games, that's a
bad moment for your football team.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
He's Sir Edwards, ESPN football analyst. The Dolphins situation not
having a legitimate backup quarterback, I've been railing on the Dolphins.
I just I wouldn't have signed Tua, said that prior
to it. But if I do sign him, I have
to have a backup who knows the system, can run
the system, and not bringing in somebody off somebody else's
(19:54):
practice squad. How did the Dolphins salvage this?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Well?
Speaker 5 (20:00):
I thought even last night, I said, you know they
you know they might be okay, you know he's played
some and say they have all these weapons. No, it's
supposed to place in this offensive. Yeah, I said, where
are the plays? I mean, they still have the skilled talent.
He got them the ball. But I think people are
defending him a little bit different now. You know, they're
(20:21):
defending them in the way where we'll let you throw
it east and west, but you're not going to hit
the scenes going north and south our defenses anymore, and
that's where all these explosive plays came from. And now
all of a sudden, you don't see plays over twenty
yards with these gays.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, but I can get the ball to Tyreek Hill
off the line of scrimmage and then let you know
him do his magic. Him and Jail they're not even
getting him the ball. And that's what.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
True. But I think the way they're trying to throw
them the ball before. You know, this team was quick hitting.
It was they attacked the middle of the field. Their
passing game was inside the numbers. Yeah, they were smart
because you know where they were attacking, the linebackers and
strong safeties. They didn't tack the corners a whole lot
unless they went vertical. Everything else was five yard passes
(21:12):
across the middle of the field. Well, who's in there.
It's the big guys, it's the linebackers and strong safeties.
And now all the sudden, when people have done, they're
stacking the box on them where they can't get those
scenes and they're throwing the ball outside and they're not
getting the yards they had before in the past.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, that's a great point. Great point. The Eagles situation
is weird.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Right, what don't even start there?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
What do you make of this?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Though?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
You know the hangover they had last year, it hadn't
gone away. It's the same team, Dan, It's the same team. Look,
this was a team two years ago they had seventy sacks.
They got five. Right now, they got a young secondary
that's not very good.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
They're vulnerable.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
They're offense basically the first two weeks was say Kawon
Barkley and I thought, well, maybe got a chance. The
receivers get hurt Hurst in the last two years and
turned the ball over twenty seven times. I mean, there's
no rhythm to this offense. And defensively they're one of
the poorest in the league right now.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
The Jaguars situation, that uh, probably not gonna end well,
but they just like they haven't improved the last couple
of years. Herm it.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
It's head scratching with Trevor Lawrence. I mean, this kid
is a talented guy. Doug Peterson is a good football coach.
Speaker 6 (22:37):
And when I watched him at the press conference and
he says we we gotta we gotta fix it was
it was almost like he was saying I don't know
how to fix this, and.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
He was almost that I don't know how to fix
this bad. I mean, it's this was the team two
years ago. You know, everyone was saying, well, they're gonna
win the Styles and the Texans with a rookie quarterback
in a first year heir coach. They win it, and
they would turn around and win it again. The Jaguars
are just playing. They're a football team right now.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
He's Herm Edwards, ESPN football analyst. He played to win
the game. Great to talk to you again, Herm, thanks
for joining us.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
He's the greatest catcher of all time. He's Johnny Bench,
the Hall of Famer and a two time World Series
champ with the Reds, and of course was a teammate
of Pete Roses. He's got his Pete and Johnny t
shirt on. And last time you saw Pete was win Johnny.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Actually I missed him in Nashville. He was there this
past weekend. They had a memorabilia show, and I did
it on Saturday, and then he was in with Tony
and Davy and George and Kenny and they had one
last picture I guess at the end of the show.
And I did not get to see him because I
was they put us on different days just for drawls
and stuff, but yeah, I would. And my plan was
(24:11):
because everybody was saying that he wasn't looking great. He
was in a wheelchair, and my plan was the text
and we wish him, you know, better, help. I think
it's a sad day for all of us and what
he meant to me, what he meant to the Big
Red Machine. But the guys were very concerned about him
yes on Sunday because they said he just wasn't the
(24:32):
same old Pete. And it's sad. I mean, it really is.
I think back to the nineteen sixty seven, even sixty
six when I went to spring training, but being a
part of what Pete's life was and growing with him
for all the year we were in business, we played together.
His goal in life was to get two hundred hits.
(24:53):
He wanted me to hit three hundred. I said, you
hit three hundred, I'll drive you one hundred times. But
nobody was more driven. He was the epitome of hustle,
of energy and desire. If he had three hits, he
wanted to get four. If he had four, he wanted
to get five. I've never seen anybody ever liked that.
And the day he got five hits off of gay
(25:14):
Lord Perry is probably one of the greatest hitting days
that I can ever remember. He was in the batting
title and I think it was Mattie Alouke, and it
might have been Medlock, but it was like that, and
he was he was actually asking somebody in the stands
hall A lou was doing how many hits he had
as he was as he was going, and he needed
(25:34):
one more, so he went out and got one. Boy,
and he told me stories. But it was we were
in business together, like I said. But his desire and
his need to win, his need to succeed, I think
it all became became part of his life. Because he
grew up in Western Hills and Cincinnati. He was a
(25:54):
river rat they called him, and barely got a chance
to even play the game of baseball. It was an
uncle of his that was newest scout that got him
a try out one hundred and forty five pounds and
he was never going to make it, and he wanted
to prove to everybody. Wanted to be the first hundred
thousand dollars singles hitter. He wanted to drive a Cadillac,
and every day it was like he wanted more, and
(26:18):
it was just, you know, it's heartbreaking because peach health
was a part of his life. His father died of
a heart attack in his early sixties, and Pete had
several procedures. But to think he reached space almost six
thousand times, six thousand times. I mean, there's nobody like that.
There's nobody but it, And damn it, why why you know,
(26:41):
you get up and you wonder why all of this happened,
and why a desire and a dream probably and the
greatest hitter in the game of baseball, how he could
possibly you know, get into a situation. And yeah, it
bothered all of us, but it was our our desire
to try to help him. We did everything we could.
(27:02):
There was more than people will ever know.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, I know you're a big proponent in backer of Pete.
You know after your playing careers, did you know if
Pete bet when he was playing?
Speaker 4 (27:16):
There were words there were talk. There was friends of
mine who knew FBI agents, and they actually passed along
the word that just hate tell your friend to stay
as far away from him as you can. And I
thought that was kind of the As it turned out,
I wasn't sure why at the time. Did I know it? Now?
(27:37):
Did I see him ever call in a bet? Now?
I mean we the only betting iver saw him do
was at the dog track in spring training.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
But do you think, I mean, you talk about this competitiveness,
you can't turn that off. We see athletes when they're done,
they need something else. Pete needed something, you know when
he played he could you know as a manager, are
you kind of but he needed that juice of gambling.
And then when you get busted by Major League Baseball,
his competitiveness, like Lance Armstrong, it doesn't allow you to apologize.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
That's true, and that was Yes, it's the adrenaline. And
let's face it, I mean, we talk about alcoholism. I've
had friends of an alcohol I see kids on drugs
all the time. They have a hard time getting off
gambling as an addiction. Let's just face it. We know
it is and it was for him, but he needed it.
He wanted it. He wanted to compete, and when he
didn't win, he had to double up, you know, and
(28:33):
it's like he had to go after something else. And
then when he he loved the horses, and then maybe
it was based basketball. Then it was football. You know,
everybody bets football. And then what do you know best, Well,
let's just assume it was baseball. People say, well, he
only bet on the Reds to win. He said, well,
if you don't bet on one every night, you don't,
(28:53):
you're betting against them. I mean it was I Look,
I got buried in Cincinnati because I didn't support Pete.
I didn't support all the things that you know. Oh
it's okay, and it's still rule twenty one. No matter
what you do. I don't care what you do. And people,
whenever you go to speak, first question is and I
look at them and I say what do you think?
(29:15):
And they said yes, And I said, well do you
have kids? Yes? And I said, well go home and
tell them there's no more rules. And it's like, WHOA,
Well I didn't, I said, well, I'm not. I didn't
make the rule. I didn't make the rule. I didn't
keep Pete out of it. In fact, I went to
the Commissioner of Sea League twice, went to him the
(29:35):
third time he said, no, don't bring it up again. Twice,
Mike Smith, Joe Morgan, myself. But those are the bad things,
but what great things.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
The Hall of Fame just says we're going to we
want him on the ballot. Since I mean, they're independent
of Major League Baseball. Would you have a problem if
Cooperstown says we're going to have him on the on
the ballot.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
It's been their choice on SAD nine. Yeah, they've had
that option. It was It wasn't major League Baseball. It
was the Hall of Fame that says, here's who's on
the ballot. These are the guys that have played that
for ten years or a certain amount of time that
makes you eligible to be voted on, and they chose
not to put him on the ballot. I don't have
a vote. I'm not a member, you know, I'm a
(30:18):
member of the Hall of Fame, but I don't have
a vote. And it's interesting to hear so many people
saying they would vote for him. So many people say
they're not vote for him. And there were always lines drawn,
and we are forgiving society I mean there's people that
right now have gone out and killed people. There's people
caught in drugs, sting, there's a deal in fraud. They
do everything, and yet they're now the face of sports
(30:41):
in a lot of ways. And for Pete, you know,
I think he had a chance. I think when Uber
was the commissioner, he tried to get Pete to sign
off on a thing, and when Pete said no, I'll
beat it, then it became I will challenge it. And
it's been a losing proposition for him. I mean in
(31:02):
the times that my said, Bud, come on, let's let's
try to get him on. Okay, let's get him on.
Let's see if he'll do these things. It didn't work,
It didn't take. He didn't follow the rules that they
had laid down. And man, for all of us, I mean,
there wasn't a one. I mean, Tony Perez, Pete, to
Joe Morgan, there wasn't one of us that didn't say
to Pete, come on, let's do this. And it's sad.
(31:25):
It's sad we have to he has to leave his
legacy with the gambling part of it, rather than the
legacy with forty two hundred and a jillion hits, forty
two to fifty six, whatever it is, five thousand beasts,
five All Star games in different positions, and the desire
and to make everybody better, everybody everywhere. When he made
everybody better, Hey, look what happened in Philadelphia when went
(31:47):
over there and Mike Schmidt and all of those guys
just stepped it up a notch because their intensity level,
because that's what Pete had more than anybody.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I can't tell if you're more mad or sad that.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yeah, I am. I am absolutely devastating. I mean I
have cried. I actually cried because I didn't want this
to happen. I didn't want this to happen to Pete.
I want I wanted to save Pete. Yeah, we had
our difference. We knocked heads on some certain things and
everything else. There wasn't one time that we didn't shake
hands or a hug whenever we saw each other. I
(32:24):
didn't want it hanging over it. I didn't want this
to be part of baseball. I didn't want it to
be a black eye on baseball to begin with. But
I did more importantly, Pete gave everything to all of us,
all of us, and yet this sickness. This addiction was
too much for him to overcome.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
He gave you, but he didn't give you what you
ultimately wanted, and that is to help Pete help himself.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yeah, we had a quite a talk out in California
when I was We were at an event together and
he said, can I see you for minute? He came
and he went into a different room and he said,
I apologize. I apologize for everything that I did to
you during the Hall of Fame year. I affected that
how I've affected you after your career because I know
(33:13):
all the questions are coming about me, and it takes
away from what you achieved, and it probably takes away
from what I achieved. But I'm sorry, I'm I apologize,
And I thought, now is the opportunity, Pete. Now is
the opportunity to really step forward and and say I'm sorry.
(33:33):
You know, Follo at your feet of everyone and say
I'm sorry, and America would forgive it him. I mean,
somebody said, you know, he would have been even been
a worse shooting, you know, better off shooting somebody, I
think than what what this has caused. And we seem
to make you know certain things out of you know,
who who took drugs? You know, all right there, let's
(33:54):
go with Barry Bond, let's go with Roger Clem, Let's
go to Samysus and then we take cooey Kin and maguire.
And yet there's guys that probably have taken it or
accused of taking it. You know that's playing now and
played forever and played in the Hall of Been or
in the Hall of Fame probably.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
But I wonder about this. Let's say Pete didn't manage.
Let's say he was seven years after his career was over.
So he goes in first ballot, he's in the Hall
of Fame, he decides to manage, and then they realize
that he's gambling on baseball. Would the Baseball Hall of
Fame take Pete out? Do you think if he was
already in for what he did as a player, but
(34:31):
he's accused of gambling as a manager.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
I would hope that the club would interject. I would
hope that the club would step up in and say, Pete,
this is a warning. Everybody knows it. I mean, we
have now have all the detectives in the world in
Major League Baseball. They're checking everything that you do. And
if they found out or something that this was a situation.
You know, these are what is you know, what if
(34:56):
he never made that first bet? What if he had
won his first bet? What if he had not lost
and doubled down? What if all of these things would
have happened? You know, if you don't bet on your
team every night, Okay, that's betting against them, that we know.
But if if he'd have these are all scenarios that
had he done it, I'm sure that I found out
about it. I was the owner. I would have come
(35:17):
down and said Pete, no, knock this off, or they
would have fired him on the spot, because the integrity
of baseball is still the most important thing we have.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
What would you say to Commissioner Manfred today, Let's say
he's listening to this interview.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
He's made that decisions, he's had a one on one
with Pete. He's had a one on one hour hour
and a half.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So no budgeting that that he What did you hear
from that conversation he had with Pete?
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Well, we know what his decision was. Nothing. No, you're
not You're not going to be on the ballot.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
But he can't and he and you know this better
than anybody, Johnny is. This commissioner can't make that decision
because you're going against bud Sea League and you're going
against Barciamani. And I don't think he wants. This isn't
a legacy that you want. I mean, he's this commissioner
has done some good things for baseball. I just don't know.
(36:19):
It seems hypocritical if you put him in posthumously.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Well, the thing that bothers me today is everything is gambling.
You're probably being sponsored by something. Yes, I mean we're
now condoning it and we're now seeing it. I'm watching
the game yesterday and I see ninety probability the Braves
will win ten percent on the met Now the score
three runs out, sixty forty. I mean, now you got
it on your phone. Where you can you can bet
(36:46):
on swings, they say, you can bet on foul balls,
you can bet on pitchers a tryout. I mean, it's
become part of it. And now we see a couple
of young players who now have been banned from baseball
or at least suspend it. I think that's that's the
thing we have to have to figure out.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
But I can't no, but you could always.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
At it differently. Baseball is actually looking at this differently.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Now, Well, they're doing this to make money off fans.
You can't have the people involved in these games with
the potential to alter the outcome. That's why I know
they're in bed with gambling. But players can't be involved
in this because they can manipulate the outcome, fix a.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Game, soaking the fans. Strangely enough, I mean, if you've
ever been to a golf tournament when the guy's in
these backs, when somebody coughs or sneezes, or his phone
happens to chirp or anything else because he doesn't want
him to hit the ball in a fair way, or
he doesn't want all of these their scenarios. These are possibilities. Yes,
I understand the money's out there, and that's what it's
all about, is having the owners and paying for the
(37:50):
salaries that they've got out there. That's that's understandable. That's
what we do. We're all in it for the dollar
at this point is they say, the owners would say,
and that's what we're going to have to do it.
We're gonna give a seven hundred million dollar contract. Somehow
we've got to pay for it. Yeah, I mean you know,
I mean sure that you know even in the wow,
seven hundred million, it's two million, fifty million. That's a lot,
(38:12):
But it's it. I think baseball is starting to take
a different look at it now. Okay, working doning betting,
and should we take another look at Pete? I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Okay, Uh, your first reaction to when Pete slid head
first when you first saw.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
It, I was doing it in Binger, Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Because Pete was doing it.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
No, no, no, I hadn't seen Pete. This is back
in the early sixties, so I had never TV. I
would know who Pete was. In sixty three. He came
up as a rookie, so I never saw Pete rose
head first light. I was head first sliding with ing
the slaughter.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Is he the first one to do a head first slide.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
In a slaughter? Yeah? He was known for that. And
I did the head first slid, and then when I
got up to Cincinnati, Pete was doing the head first slide,
so I didn't do the hip first slide anymore. It's
his deal. I mean, I've never seen anybody. I don't
know if you can call it a slide. I mean
the statue he has in front of his stadium is perfect. Yeah,
(39:12):
that is absolutely Pete Rose. That's the way he dove
into everything with aggress aggressiveness. I mean you can see
you can still look back at the nineteen seventy five
World Series when he went into third if you're going
to remember that base hitting there and he dove in
there like that. I mean he's two feet off the ground,
(39:32):
flying through the air. And that's the way the statue
and that's a way of pitomize what Pete was. It's
just damn it, Pete. You did it to our us,
you did it to yourself, and we're we're and then
we have to talk about this. We have to talk
about what was was your life and your life, no
(39:53):
matter how you want to do it, Forty two hundred
hits now goes. No. He gambled real twenty one beats
four real twenty one beats for forty two fifty six.
And that's that's the sad thing about it, because God
could he played two hundred. I mean every year hits, hits, hits,
get in score, run, run the bases as good as anybody.
(40:14):
And for a guy to give up a position as
an All Star and be no when when George Foster
was traded over Tony I mean, Smarty goes at the
Pete's and they need you to play third. Okay, he
was second base, then he goes to first base. I mean,
he created everything that he did with the determination and
(40:36):
love for the game. I don't think anybody loved the
game more than Pete.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
And I hear what you're saying, we should be talking
about Pete the ballplayer, but he what he did overshadowed that,
and it's just hard to get through the trees with.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
It's the greatest story ever forty two to fifty six.
When he beat Cobb, it was the greatest story. Nobody
can be Cop, Nobody there was impossible to beat Cop.
And then he goes past it, and he goes past it.
I mean, we can talk about Ripkin and his longevity
and everything else, but Pete was out there for one
hundred and ninety hits for thirteen years, and we brag
(41:14):
about a guy who got one hundred and seventy. Now
we look at the top hitters in the game of
baseball and his batting titles and all the stuff, and
all the runs that he scored and all the things,
and no, we got to talk about this, and damn it, Pete,
that's just not the way I wanted to end this.
That's not the way I wanted to see you go out.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Stay healthy, Okay, work in my assof stay healthy. Thank
you Daniel too, all right, Love you, Johnny Bench
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Pete Rose, passing away at the age of eighty three
is former teammate Johnny Bench. A little bit later on.
Growing up in Cincinnati, we all wanted to wear number fourteen.
We all were sliding head first. We wanted to have
the same haircut as Pete Rose. So he certainly had
an impact on me. My first autograph was from Pete Rose,
(00:24):
and he wasn't charging back then, but I have had
many many interviews with him, interactions with him. He said
a lot of things to me on my radio show.
And when I first got to ESPN was nineteen eighty
nine and I left CNN went to ESPN, and then
a few months later I'm on the eleven o'clock Sports
(00:46):
Center with Bodley, one of the great sports journalists in history.
So I come in and the Pete Rose situations unfolding
right in front of me. Now, I used to gamble
and one of my bookies used to take bets from
Pete Rose. So I say to Bob Lee, Bob, I
got information here, and I'll put that coverage up against
(01:09):
any network of what we did covering Pete Rose in
large part because of Bob. But I did have a
connection and I knew exactly what was going on with
his betting. Now, I never found out if he bet
while he was a player on the Reds against the Reds.
And I know that there's this outpouring of sympathy and
(01:31):
sentiment for Pete Rose to be in the Hall of Fame.
Nothing has changed from yesterday today to a week ago
with Pete Rose. It's just sentiment here to get him
in the Hall of Fame. And what I like to
see Pete in the Hall of Fame. It's a museum.
If you want to tell the story of baseball, then
(01:52):
do it that way, because I know that there'll be
a lot of people old schools say, well, he's staying
the game, embarrassed the game. He never really apologize until
he was writing a book. I mean, there's so many
angles to this, and I don't want this to take
over the show because there's nothing new that I can
add to this that I haven't already told you about.
(02:13):
Whether he told me that he only bet on the
Reds to win, he had never said that before, so
every game he was betting on them to win, and
it was a game that he was managing. I did
wonder about this too. Let's say Pete didn't manage until
the sixth year he got out of baseball. He retires,
(02:34):
five year window, he goes into the Hall of Fame,
first ballot, The Reds bring him back and they want
him to manage. Would Baseball take him out of the
Hall of Fame? And understand this, the Hall of Fame
is different, separate from Major League Baseball. This is owned
and operated separately. Now do they fall in line with
(02:55):
Major League Baseball? They do, but they do it by choice.
If the Hall of Fame said we want Pete on
the ballot, he could be on the ballot. Jeff Idelson
for years has said that to us, he runs the
Hall of Fame if they chose to do that. Now,
once again, it's the Baseball Hall of Fame, it's not
(03:16):
the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame. But if they
wanted him on the ballot, they could put him on
the ballot. But all I've ever said is it's like
he he cheated in grad school. I can't take away
his undergraduate degree. And he was sumacum laude when he was,
you know, undergrad, and then he became a manager, and
(03:37):
then he's betting on baseball. And if you look at
the wording here of you know, what they put out
as far as you know Pete's suspension, and I think
people have this misunderstood on you know, it's not a
lifetime ban, but that's the way it's praised. It's, you know,
(03:58):
it's an employment ban. He he can't work in baseball.
He could never work in baseball. And that's what people,
I think for good And if you look at what
you know, the role that he broke, Any player, umpire,
or club, or league official or employee who shall bet
any some whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with
which the better has a duty to perform, shall be
(04:22):
declared permanently ineligible. So it's not a lifetime ban. This
is permanently ineligible from working in Baseball's that's really the
punishment here. And then you have people who are saying, well,
it's a lifetime ban, his life is over, is the
band over? Well, it wasn't a lifetime ban. It was
(04:43):
permanently ineligible from holding a job in Major League baseball.
I want to bring back a clip that I had
with Pete Rose, and you know, once again we talked
about a variety of things, but I did ask him
about maybe getting into the Hall of Fame posthumously.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know, they make one thing clear that if I
ever get an opportunity to go to the Hall of Fame,
I'll be the happiest guy.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
In the world.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Do you think it will happen before?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I don't know. I I still haven't given up on
Bud see it. And I know you know this as
well as I. I mean, whenever whenever someone asked Budd
Sealed about Pete Rose, he says, uh, well, we're we're
thinking about it, you know. I mean, if you're not
going to give me an opportunity, but please just tell
(05:33):
me and and and you won't. You won't bothering. I
won't send him letters. No one from my side will bothering.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Would you rather know now that you'll never get into
the Hall of Fame as opposed to that possibility of
getting into the Hall of Fame, Well.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It ain't going to help me a damn bit if
I'm dead. I mean, the Hall of Fame for your
family and your friends anyway. But you know, like it
was saying, I think the way they handle Ron Santo.
Next year they put him in broke Heart. Yeah, I think.
I think in baseball, the more Hall of famers you
have walking around, especially tomorrow, more Hall of famers you
(06:10):
have walking around talking to people, the better off of
your sport is. And you know, I'm not going to
break the rules again. I mean people ought to know that.
I mean, you know, I've been suspended twenty three years.
It cost me a lot.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
It cost me a lot.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You know, you could suspend these guys making twenty million
for a long time and lose as much as I did. Now,
I'm not whining now, I'm just telling you the facts
of the situation. And you know one thing I never did, Dan,
and you agree with this.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I never never cheated.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
To people when I played the game of baseball. Okay,
regardless of what I did, I always played my ass
off when I played the game of baseball. I always
put the fans first. I understood the importance of the fans,
how important the fans work to the game. And I
guess that's somewhat the reason I played the way I did.
And I think I influenced my teammates. And you don't
(07:03):
have bad things said about me to my teammates. I'm
not one of these guys that's been in a bar fight,
run red lights, beat somebody up. I mean, you don't
ever read it. The only thing you ever read about
me is I gambled, and nothing else. And if you have,
I don't know what it would be. So you know,
I made a mistake. I made a big mistake, a
big mistake, a huge mistake. And when Giamoni told me to,
(07:27):
you know, to reconfigure my life, I misunderstood him. I
thought when he said reconfiguring my life, that meant no
more illegal game in which I don't do, be very
close to people you associate with, which I do. But
what he meant and it took me years to understand
this take responsibility for what I did. And I did
take responsibility for it. But there's still people that just
(07:48):
won't let it go away. We're talking about something, man,
that happened. I was suspended in nineteen eighty nine, eighty nine.
You know it's time to get over it.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's from July twenty fifth, twenty thirteen. It took Pete
a long time to say he was sorry or show
any contrition. And I know that that bothered the previous commissioner,
Bud Selik, and we had had public conversations on my
radio show. We had private conversations about Pete Rose, and
it just became a story that they wanted to go away.
(08:23):
But every year at Cooperstown, Pete would be their signing autographs. Meanwhile,
you would have other people having their day at Cooperstown,
but Pete would sign on autographs. Nobody has benefited more
from not being in the Hall of Fame than Pete Rose,
because now he became more of an attraction now that
there was the Well, let's root for Pete to get
(08:46):
into the Hall of Fame a cause if you will.
And I've always said that in what Pete said there,
I never got cheated ever when I went to see
Pete Rose play, never and he won more games than anybody.
We know all of the stats. But I think Pete
thought that was enough that there would be an overwhelming
(09:09):
sentiment of one of the great players of all time,
he's got to be in the Hall of Fame. Well
he doesn't. And now it would be hypocritical if you
put him into the Hall of Fame now, because why
are you putting him in now? Nothing's changed unless you're
saying we punished him. Now for his family's sake or
(09:33):
Baseball's sake, we're going to put him in the Hall
of Fame. If you want to put the steroid guys
in there, put it in. Put him in. Even if
you do that, maybe you don't let them have their
day where they give a speech. You're in the Hall
of Fame. There is no speech. We want to tell
the story of baseball. Fine, but Pete Rose Pete is
(09:58):
his own worst nightmare, his own worst enemy. What made
him great is what kept him out of the Hall
of Fame. He could just never say sorry, what can
I do to give back to baseball? And I remember
having a conversation with Commissioner Seely, and I brought up
the idea of having Pete go through the minor leagues
(10:19):
and just tell the players what he sacrificed, what he lost,
and do it on his own dime, and just go
around and tell people this is a cautionary tale. You
can have everything and you can lose it all. And
he was really really popular, not just baseball, not sports popular.
(10:41):
Pete was popular. And that might have resonated with some people,
and it would certainly resonate with Major League Baseball, but
Pete couldn't come to grips with that. And then he thought, hey,
I'm betting on my team to win. Well, you'd still
manipulate the lineup. It's Pete needed to compete. You can't
(11:07):
spell compete without Pete. Michael Jordan's same way. They're wired
that way that they have to have something going on.
There has to be something there. And Pete wasn't a
good gambler. My bookie would say, you know, because I'd say,
who's Pete Betanon. Now there was a main bookie in Cincinnati,
(11:30):
Indian Hills, and then my bookie was in my hometown,
and then he would get bets laid off to him.
If you're into gambling, then you know what I'm talking about.
Don't want to get into the weeds too much. So
I was aware. I was there in eighty six and
it was postseason. Pete was there and he might have
(11:51):
been working for somebody, but I remember he said to
Bob Costas and me, who do you like today? It
was Mets Astros. When somebody says who do you like today,
that's gambling.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Who do you like?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
And I know it. I know the code because people
still ask me, who do you like? I go no, no,
don't bet on it. And so Pete was probably betting
on the Astros in the Mets, and if Mike Scott
was pitching, he was probably betting on Mike Scott to
beat the Mets. But you can't put him in the
Hall of Fame now because it's hypocritical. There was the opportunity.
(12:31):
I was hoping that there would be something that was there.
But if you open the door, are you opening the door?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Then?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
For everybody, Pete didn't cheat the game in the sense
of what the steroid guys did. He broke a posted rule.
It's right there there. It's the cardinal rule. It's right there.
Every clubhouse has it. There's nothing in there that says
don't use steroids, but it tells you do not bet
(13:02):
on baseball. And Pete did it. But Pete thought he
was bigger than the game, and he found out that
he wasn't. But great memories, big red Machine, best best
hitting lineup certainly in National League history, and a lot
of great memories. And Johnny Benchell join us coming up
(13:22):
a little bit later on to talk about Pete, but
passing away at the age of eighty three. You know
who I felt really sad for was to ken Bay
Mtumbo's family because he passes away, and then hours later
it's announced that Pete Rose passed away, and it made
me think about Farah Fawcett was really really famous Charlie's Angels.
(13:47):
She passes away, and then hours later Michael Jackson passes away,
and the coverage changed and went right to Michael Jackson,
just like Pete Rose and to ken Bay Mutumbo is
one of the more giving people, not just athletes, I've
ever encountered. He wanted to help people in an Africa.
(14:09):
He wanted to be able to be a goodwill ambassador
for the NBA, and when he got out of the game,
he wanted to know how to give back. And David
Stern would talk to me about certain players, and he
always loved the Kembe because he said he wants to give,
he wants to have a bigger impact, and I always
(14:30):
appreciated that. So he passes away and then hours later
it's Pete Rose.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
App is Herm Edwards there. He is the ESPN football
analyst and of course former defensive back. We were just
wondering this, Herm. You gave us the famous slogan you
play to win the game? Did you copyright then?
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Have not? So it's open for use.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Okay, you can. You can do T shirts, you know.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Yeah, I know I've been told that. I keep saying
I'm gonna do that, but I haven't done it yet.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So if I gave you the Lions or the field
today in the NFC, in the NFC, who you taking well?
Speaker 5 (15:21):
The way they played last night, especially the second half.
I mean, this was the game that when you watch it,
the first half was a regular NFL game, you know,
seven it's twenty one, okay, it's kind of and then
the second half it was twenty three to twenty eight,
and I'm going that's just that's like, that's like a
whole NFL game in one half. I mean, the yardage
was unbelievable. And Jared Golf, I mean, is as good
(15:45):
as he was he only he only threw it like
eighteen times. Yeah, it didn't throw it a lot, you know,
explosive offense with those two running backs. He really played good,
and they played good in that Dome as well. But
but I kind of liked the lines. But you know,
I'm kind of leaving them on. I hate to say this.
I'm falling into the trap with the Minnesota Vikings right now. No, no,
(16:07):
I'm falling into the trap.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
I keep saying I don't want to do it, I
don't trust him, and then he keeps troving me wrong.
So they're pretty good right now, the Vikings.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
That's September football. We're talking about her.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yeah, I know, only in September.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
I know.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
You have me back like it end of November.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
It feels like there's always one or two or three
teams that surprise us each year. I thought at the
beginning of the year the Falcons and the Commanders were
going to be the surprise teams. At least two of them.
You coached Jaden Daniels and at Arizona State. I guess
you're not surprised. What's your reaction to what you've seen
(16:53):
through the first month?
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Reminded me when I had him there. You know, I
talked to him every week now when he when he
when he left, and obviously you know through the n
l I and all that stuff with the l s U.
I would talk to him every week and still do
not surprising at all. The game is never too big
for him. And then you know, and I told you
this for he reminds me a lot of Randall cunning him.
(17:18):
And I told him that when he's playing for me,
he's about the same height, the same size, can throw
the long ball very well.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
And now the more he plays, obviously the speed of
the game is just all of a sudden slowing down
for him some. But he's got this team with you know,
he's given him a hope all of a sudden, Washington.
If you'd have told me at the end of four
weeks that the Washington Commanders are in first place in
the into the NFC East, I would go, Now, really,
(17:48):
what a rookie quarterback?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Does it concern you? Or how much does the running
with Jayden concern you?
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Well, you know, and that's always been a concern because
he's not the biggest guy. But he's become a smarter runner.
And that was kind of the conversation. I haven't put
him all the time, and I said, look, you got
to know when the journey's over and I said, you're
going to learn how to slide, because he hated his slides.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
And.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
I told him for the last week the week before
he didn't slide, So like I get on him. I said, man,
start sliding, that's just the NFL. Then they're going to
hit you. I said, you got to be available ever play.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, I see RG three situation here where you have
that speed and RG three didn't slide. He was taken
on defenders. And you know, I just I always say,
you know on the show, live to see another play.
You don't have to be a hero at that position.
It's like TWOA got injured. He didn't need to be
(18:48):
in that situation.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Oh no, No, that was just silly. It was almost.
It was almost his injury was one of those he
was trying to be tough. You don't have to be tough.
Just finish the game. That's your job, quarterback. You start
the game, finish the game.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I respect tough, but I don't want my quarterback to
have to prove he's tough. I need smart. There's nothing
wrong with sliding fetal position. All of those Peyton manning.
You want to follow Peyton's script, just fall in a
fetal position. You don't have to go after the guy
who picks you off.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
No, No, And you know, and that's what they pay
you for. They pay you to start the game, to
finish the game. When you don't finish games, that's a
bad moment for your football team.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
He's Sir Edwards, ESPN football analyst. The Dolphins situation not
having a legitimate backup quarterback, I've been railing on the Dolphins.
I just I wouldn't have signed Tua, said that prior
to it. But if I do sign him, I have
to have a backup who knows the system, can run
the system, and not bringing in somebody off somebody else's
(19:54):
practice squad. How did the Dolphins salvage this?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Well?
Speaker 5 (20:00):
I thought even last night, I said, you know they
you know they might be okay, you know he's played
some and say they have all these weapons. No, it's
supposed to place in this offensive. Yeah, I said, where
are the plays? I mean, they still have the skilled talent.
He got them the ball. But I think people are
defending him a little bit different now. You know, they're
(20:21):
defending them in the way where we'll let you throw
it east and west, but you're not going to hit
the scenes going north and south our defenses anymore, and
that's where all these explosive plays came from. And now
all of a sudden, you don't see plays over twenty
yards with these gays.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, but I can get the ball to Tyreek Hill
off the line of scrimmage and then let you know
him do his magic. Him and Jail they're not even
getting him the ball. And that's what.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
True. But I think the way they're trying to throw
them the ball before. You know, this team was quick hitting.
It was they attacked the middle of the field. Their
passing game was inside the numbers. Yeah, they were smart
because you know where they were attacking, the linebackers and
strong safeties. They didn't tack the corners a whole lot
unless they went vertical. Everything else was five yard passes
(21:12):
across the middle of the field. Well, who's in there.
It's the big guys, it's the linebackers and strong safeties.
And now all the sudden, when people have done, they're
stacking the box on them where they can't get those
scenes and they're throwing the ball outside and they're not
getting the yards they had before in the past.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, that's a great point. Great point. The Eagles situation
is weird.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Right, what don't even start there?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
What do you make of this?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Though?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
You know the hangover they had last year, it hadn't
gone away. It's the same team, Dan, It's the same team. Look,
this was a team two years ago they had seventy sacks.
They got five. Right now, they got a young secondary
that's not very good.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
They're vulnerable.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
They're offense basically the first two weeks was say Kawon
Barkley and I thought, well, maybe got a chance. The
receivers get hurt Hurst in the last two years and
turned the ball over twenty seven times. I mean, there's
no rhythm to this offense. And defensively they're one of
the poorest in the league right now.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
The Jaguars situation, that uh, probably not gonna end well,
but they just like they haven't improved the last couple
of years. Herm it.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
It's head scratching with Trevor Lawrence. I mean, this kid
is a talented guy. Doug Peterson is a good football coach.
Speaker 6 (22:37):
And when I watched him at the press conference and
he says we we gotta we gotta fix it was
it was almost like he was saying I don't know
how to fix this, and.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
He was almost that I don't know how to fix
this bad. I mean, it's this was the team two
years ago. You know, everyone was saying, well, they're gonna
win the Styles and the Texans with a rookie quarterback
in a first year heir coach. They win it, and
they would turn around and win it again. The Jaguars
are just playing. They're a football team right now.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
He's Herm Edwards, ESPN football analyst. He played to win
the game. Great to talk to you again, Herm, thanks
for joining us.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
He's the greatest catcher of all time. He's Johnny Bench,
the Hall of Famer and a two time World Series
champ with the Reds, and of course was a teammate
of Pete Roses. He's got his Pete and Johnny t
shirt on. And last time you saw Pete was win Johnny.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Actually I missed him in Nashville. He was there this
past weekend. They had a memorabilia show, and I did
it on Saturday, and then he was in with Tony
and Davy and George and Kenny and they had one
last picture I guess at the end of the show.
And I did not get to see him because I
was they put us on different days just for drawls
and stuff, but yeah, I would. And my plan was
(24:11):
because everybody was saying that he wasn't looking great. He
was in a wheelchair, and my plan was the text
and we wish him, you know, better, help. I think
it's a sad day for all of us and what
he meant to me, what he meant to the Big
Red Machine. But the guys were very concerned about him
yes on Sunday because they said he just wasn't the
(24:32):
same old Pete. And it's sad. I mean, it really is.
I think back to the nineteen sixty seven, even sixty
six when I went to spring training, but being a
part of what Pete's life was and growing with him
for all the year we were in business, we played together.
His goal in life was to get two hundred hits.
(24:53):
He wanted me to hit three hundred. I said, you
hit three hundred, I'll drive you one hundred times. But
nobody was more driven. He was the epitome of hustle,
of energy and desire. If he had three hits, he
wanted to get four. If he had four, he wanted
to get five. I've never seen anybody ever liked that.
And the day he got five hits off of gay
(25:14):
Lord Perry is probably one of the greatest hitting days
that I can ever remember. He was in the batting
title and I think it was Mattie Alouke, and it
might have been Medlock, but it was like that, and
he was he was actually asking somebody in the stands
hall A lou was doing how many hits he had
as he was as he was going, and he needed
(25:34):
one more, so he went out and got one. Boy,
and he told me stories. But it was we were
in business together, like I said. But his desire and
his need to win, his need to succeed, I think
it all became became part of his life. Because he
grew up in Western Hills and Cincinnati. He was a
(25:54):
river rat they called him, and barely got a chance
to even play the game of baseball. It was an
uncle of his that was newest scout that got him
a try out one hundred and forty five pounds and
he was never going to make it, and he wanted
to prove to everybody. Wanted to be the first hundred
thousand dollars singles hitter. He wanted to drive a Cadillac,
and every day it was like he wanted more, and
(26:18):
it was just, you know, it's heartbreaking because peach health
was a part of his life. His father died of
a heart attack in his early sixties, and Pete had
several procedures. But to think he reached space almost six
thousand times, six thousand times. I mean, there's nobody like that.
There's nobody but it, And damn it, why why you know,
(26:41):
you get up and you wonder why all of this happened,
and why a desire and a dream probably and the
greatest hitter in the game of baseball, how he could
possibly you know, get into a situation. And yeah, it
bothered all of us, but it was our our desire
to try to help him. We did everything we could.
(27:02):
There was more than people will ever know.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, I know you're a big proponent in backer of Pete.
You know after your playing careers, did you know if
Pete bet when he was playing?
Speaker 4 (27:16):
There were words there were talk. There was friends of
mine who knew FBI agents, and they actually passed along
the word that just hate tell your friend to stay
as far away from him as you can. And I
thought that was kind of the As it turned out,
I wasn't sure why at the time. Did I know it? Now?
(27:37):
Did I see him ever call in a bet? Now?
I mean we the only betting iver saw him do
was at the dog track in spring training.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
But do you think, I mean, you talk about this competitiveness,
you can't turn that off. We see athletes when they're done,
they need something else. Pete needed something, you know when
he played he could you know as a manager, are
you kind of but he needed that juice of gambling.
And then when you get busted by Major League Baseball,
his competitiveness, like Lance Armstrong, it doesn't allow you to apologize.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
That's true, and that was Yes, it's the adrenaline. And
let's face it, I mean, we talk about alcoholism. I've
had friends of an alcohol I see kids on drugs
all the time. They have a hard time getting off
gambling as an addiction. Let's just face it. We know
it is and it was for him, but he needed it.
He wanted it. He wanted to compete, and when he
didn't win, he had to double up, you know, and
(28:33):
it's like he had to go after something else. And
then when he he loved the horses, and then maybe
it was based basketball. Then it was football. You know,
everybody bets football. And then what do you know best, Well,
let's just assume it was baseball. People say, well, he
only bet on the Reds to win. He said, well,
if you don't bet on one every night, you don't,
(28:53):
you're betting against them. I mean it was I Look,
I got buried in Cincinnati because I didn't support Pete.
I didn't support all the things that you know. Oh
it's okay, and it's still rule twenty one. No matter
what you do. I don't care what you do. And people,
whenever you go to speak, first question is and I
look at them and I say what do you think?
(29:15):
And they said yes, And I said, well do you
have kids? Yes? And I said, well go home and
tell them there's no more rules. And it's like, WHOA,
Well I didn't, I said, well, I'm not. I didn't
make the rule. I didn't make the rule. I didn't
keep Pete out of it. In fact, I went to
the Commissioner of Sea League twice, went to him the
(29:35):
third time he said, no, don't bring it up again. Twice,
Mike Smith, Joe Morgan, myself. But those are the bad things,
but what great things.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
The Hall of Fame just says we're going to we
want him on the ballot. Since I mean, they're independent
of Major League Baseball. Would you have a problem if
Cooperstown says we're going to have him on the on
the ballot.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
It's been their choice on SAD nine. Yeah, they've had
that option. It was It wasn't major League Baseball. It
was the Hall of Fame that says, here's who's on
the ballot. These are the guys that have played that
for ten years or a certain amount of time that
makes you eligible to be voted on, and they chose
not to put him on the ballot. I don't have
a vote. I'm not a member, you know, I'm a
(30:18):
member of the Hall of Fame, but I don't have
a vote. And it's interesting to hear so many people
saying they would vote for him. So many people say
they're not vote for him. And there were always lines drawn,
and we are forgiving society I mean there's people that
right now have gone out and killed people. There's people
caught in drugs, sting, there's a deal in fraud. They
do everything, and yet they're now the face of sports
(30:41):
in a lot of ways. And for Pete, you know,
I think he had a chance. I think when Uber
was the commissioner, he tried to get Pete to sign
off on a thing, and when Pete said no, I'll
beat it, then it became I will challenge it. And
it's been a losing proposition for him. I mean in
(31:02):
the times that my said, Bud, come on, let's let's
try to get him on. Okay, let's get him on.
Let's see if he'll do these things. It didn't work,
It didn't take. He didn't follow the rules that they
had laid down. And man, for all of us, I mean,
there wasn't a one. I mean, Tony Perez, Pete, to
Joe Morgan, there wasn't one of us that didn't say
to Pete, come on, let's do this. And it's sad.
(31:25):
It's sad we have to he has to leave his
legacy with the gambling part of it, rather than the
legacy with forty two hundred and a jillion hits, forty
two to fifty six, whatever it is, five thousand beasts,
five All Star games in different positions, and the desire
and to make everybody better, everybody everywhere. When he made
everybody better, Hey, look what happened in Philadelphia when went
(31:47):
over there and Mike Schmidt and all of those guys
just stepped it up a notch because their intensity level,
because that's what Pete had more than anybody.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I can't tell if you're more mad or sad that.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yeah, I am. I am absolutely devastating. I mean I
have cried. I actually cried because I didn't want this
to happen. I didn't want this to happen to Pete.
I want I wanted to save Pete. Yeah, we had
our difference. We knocked heads on some certain things and
everything else. There wasn't one time that we didn't shake
hands or a hug whenever we saw each other. I
(32:24):
didn't want it hanging over it. I didn't want this
to be part of baseball. I didn't want it to
be a black eye on baseball to begin with. But
I did more importantly, Pete gave everything to all of us,
all of us, and yet this sickness. This addiction was
too much for him to overcome.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
He gave you, but he didn't give you what you
ultimately wanted, and that is to help Pete help himself.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yeah, we had a quite a talk out in California
when I was We were at an event together and
he said, can I see you for minute? He came
and he went into a different room and he said,
I apologize. I apologize for everything that I did to
you during the Hall of Fame year. I affected that
how I've affected you after your career because I know
(33:13):
all the questions are coming about me, and it takes
away from what you achieved, and it probably takes away
from what I achieved. But I'm sorry, I'm I apologize,
And I thought, now is the opportunity, Pete. Now is
the opportunity to really step forward and and say I'm sorry.
(33:33):
You know, Follo at your feet of everyone and say
I'm sorry, and America would forgive it him. I mean,
somebody said, you know, he would have been even been
a worse shooting, you know, better off shooting somebody, I
think than what what this has caused. And we seem
to make you know certain things out of you know,
who who took drugs? You know, all right there, let's
(33:54):
go with Barry Bond, let's go with Roger Clem, Let's
go to Samysus and then we take cooey Kin and maguire.
And yet there's guys that probably have taken it or
accused of taking it. You know that's playing now and
played forever and played in the Hall of Been or
in the Hall of Fame probably.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
But I wonder about this. Let's say Pete didn't manage.
Let's say he was seven years after his career was over.
So he goes in first ballot, he's in the Hall
of Fame, he decides to manage, and then they realize
that he's gambling on baseball. Would the Baseball Hall of
Fame take Pete out? Do you think if he was
already in for what he did as a player, but
(34:31):
he's accused of gambling as a manager.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
I would hope that the club would interject. I would
hope that the club would step up in and say, Pete,
this is a warning. Everybody knows it. I mean, we
have now have all the detectives in the world in
Major League Baseball. They're checking everything that you do. And
if they found out or something that this was a situation.
You know, these are what is you know, what if
(34:56):
he never made that first bet? What if he had
won his first bet? What if he had not lost
and doubled down? What if all of these things would
have happened? You know, if you don't bet on your
team every night, Okay, that's betting against them, that we know.
But if if he'd have these are all scenarios that
had he done it, I'm sure that I found out
about it. I was the owner. I would have come
(35:17):
down and said Pete, no, knock this off, or they
would have fired him on the spot, because the integrity
of baseball is still the most important thing we have.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
What would you say to Commissioner Manfred today, Let's say
he's listening to this interview.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
He's made that decisions, he's had a one on one
with Pete. He's had a one on one hour hour
and a half.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So no budgeting that that he What did you hear
from that conversation he had with Pete?
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Well, we know what his decision was. Nothing. No, you're
not You're not going to be on the ballot.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
But he can't and he and you know this better
than anybody, Johnny is. This commissioner can't make that decision
because you're going against bud Sea League and you're going
against Barciamani. And I don't think he wants. This isn't
a legacy that you want. I mean, he's this commissioner
has done some good things for baseball. I just don't know.
(36:19):
It seems hypocritical if you put him in posthumously.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Well, the thing that bothers me today is everything is gambling.
You're probably being sponsored by something. Yes, I mean we're
now condoning it and we're now seeing it. I'm watching
the game yesterday and I see ninety probability the Braves
will win ten percent on the met Now the score
three runs out, sixty forty. I mean, now you got
it on your phone. Where you can you can bet
(36:46):
on swings, they say, you can bet on foul balls,
you can bet on pitchers a tryout. I mean, it's
become part of it. And now we see a couple
of young players who now have been banned from baseball
or at least suspend it. I think that's that's the
thing we have to have to figure out.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
But I can't no, but you could always.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
At it differently. Baseball is actually looking at this differently.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Now, Well, they're doing this to make money off fans.
You can't have the people involved in these games with
the potential to alter the outcome. That's why I know
they're in bed with gambling. But players can't be involved
in this because they can manipulate the outcome, fix a.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Game, soaking the fans. Strangely enough, I mean, if you've
ever been to a golf tournament when the guy's in
these backs, when somebody coughs or sneezes, or his phone
happens to chirp or anything else because he doesn't want
him to hit the ball in a fair way, or
he doesn't want all of these their scenarios. These are possibilities. Yes,
I understand the money's out there, and that's what it's
all about, is having the owners and paying for the
(37:50):
salaries that they've got out there. That's that's understandable. That's
what we do. We're all in it for the dollar
at this point is they say, the owners would say,
and that's what we're going to have to do it.
We're gonna give a seven hundred million dollar contract. Somehow
we've got to pay for it. Yeah, I mean you know,
I mean sure that you know even in the wow,
seven hundred million, it's two million, fifty million. That's a lot,
(38:12):
But it's it. I think baseball is starting to take
a different look at it now. Okay, working doning betting,
and should we take another look at Pete? I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Okay, Uh, your first reaction to when Pete slid head
first when you first saw.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
It, I was doing it in Binger, Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Because Pete was doing it.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
No, no, no, I hadn't seen Pete. This is back
in the early sixties, so I had never TV. I
would know who Pete was. In sixty three. He came
up as a rookie, so I never saw Pete rose
head first light. I was head first sliding with ing
the slaughter.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Is he the first one to do a head first slide.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
In a slaughter? Yeah? He was known for that. And
I did the head first slid, and then when I
got up to Cincinnati, Pete was doing the head first slide,
so I didn't do the hip first slide anymore. It's
his deal. I mean, I've never seen anybody. I don't
know if you can call it a slide. I mean
the statue he has in front of his stadium is perfect. Yeah,
(39:12):
that is absolutely Pete Rose. That's the way he dove
into everything with aggress aggressiveness. I mean you can see
you can still look back at the nineteen seventy five
World Series when he went into third if you're going
to remember that base hitting there and he dove in
there like that. I mean he's two feet off the ground,
(39:32):
flying through the air. And that's the way the statue
and that's a way of pitomize what Pete was. It's
just damn it, Pete. You did it to our us,
you did it to yourself, and we're we're and then
we have to talk about this. We have to talk
about what was was your life and your life, no
(39:53):
matter how you want to do it, Forty two hundred
hits now goes. No. He gambled real twenty one beats
four real twenty one beats for forty two fifty six.
And that's that's the sad thing about it, because God
could he played two hundred. I mean every year hits, hits, hits,
get in score, run, run the bases as good as anybody.
(40:14):
And for a guy to give up a position as
an All Star and be no when when George Foster
was traded over Tony I mean, Smarty goes at the
Pete's and they need you to play third. Okay, he
was second base, then he goes to first base. I mean,
he created everything that he did with the determination and
(40:36):
love for the game. I don't think anybody loved the
game more than Pete.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
And I hear what you're saying, we should be talking
about Pete the ballplayer, but he what he did overshadowed that,
and it's just hard to get through the trees with.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
It's the greatest story ever forty two to fifty six.
When he beat Cobb, it was the greatest story. Nobody
can be Cop, Nobody there was impossible to beat Cop.
And then he goes past it, and he goes past it.
I mean, we can talk about Ripkin and his longevity
and everything else, but Pete was out there for one
hundred and ninety hits for thirteen years, and we brag
(41:14):
about a guy who got one hundred and seventy. Now
we look at the top hitters in the game of
baseball and his batting titles and all the stuff, and
all the runs that he scored and all the things,
and no, we got to talk about this, and damn it, Pete,
that's just not the way I wanted to end this.
That's not the way I wanted to see you go out.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Stay healthy, Okay, work in my assof stay healthy. Thank
you Daniel too, all right, Love you, Johnny Bench
Hosts And Creators
Todd "Fritzy" Fritz
Dan Patrick
Patrick "Seton" O'Connor
Paul Pabst
Marvin Prince
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