December 4, 2024 • 43 mins
Talkin' Jake is joined by Katie Woo of The Athletic to break down all things NL Central!
Watch us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WakeNJake
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:25 Gauging the NL Central
2:30 St. Louis Cardinals are Resetting
9:45 Nolan Arenado Trade Rumors
11:40 Will the Cardinals Sign ANY Free Agent?
15:05 Milwaukee Brewers
21:55 Chicago Cubs are Frustrating & Cody Bellinger Rumors
27:45 Pittsburgh Pirates
33:10 Am I Falling for the Reds Again?
36:30 The Pitching Market is MOVING
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are joined by a very special guest today. It's
Katie Woo from the athletic and most importantly, the potential
Big Twelve champion Arizona State Sun Devils.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's right, that's right, and I have waited.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I don't know my whole life for this, So not
to be dramatic, but my mood at the Winter Meetings,
which start Sunday, will be directly correlated to if ASU
wins the Big Twelve championship game on Saturday. If they win,
you can expect some really good work for me. If
they don't, just gonna, I might not even go.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, you're in a safe place for that attitude, because
that's kind of how we operate here. Winter Meetings. Is
it in Dallas or Arlington?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Actually Dallas.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I think it's actually Dallas.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Actually Dallas.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I kind of screwed up on that one. We were
kind of like, we're not doing it. But I love Dallas.
I lived there for a year and a half. Maybe
I'll just panic him buy a flight. We'll see, Probably
won't Katie Woo. I want to talk to you mostly
about life. We'll start with your early years and we'll
work our way up. But I did want to talk
(01:06):
the NL Central. Everyone's favorite division. You know me, I
play for clicks, so I said, let's do our Central Division.
But honestly, part of the genuine excitement around it, besides
being baseball losers, is your Cardinals. And this is part
where I got the initial idea. You know, I was
(01:30):
reading my tea leaves. At first. I was like, wait,
there's some money coming off the books, like these are
the Cardinals, right, these are the proud Saint Louis Cardinals.
You've lived in Saint Louis for a while, now this
is this is our team. The Rams are out like,
let's figure this out. The Central's available, and there's free
agents to have. Let's move a couple pieces. And I
(01:51):
was like, ooh, could they be. I've been looking for
a Corbyn Burns team for a while and I can't
find it. And I keep going through NL Central teams
where I'm like, wait, well, maybe say Lewis put their
chips in, or will the Cubs. The Cubs have tormented
me more than Saint Louis because I have no clue
what they're doing. The Pirates they told us they were
going to buy at the deadline, and they've dfayed one
(02:13):
of those players, and IKF remains story of my life.
And the Brewers just find a way to win the division.
So as you can tell, I just chugged a coffee
and I'm running a little hot anyways. More, Yeah, let's
start with your Saint Louis Cardinals, because well, I'll just
let you go because I don't from our previous exchanges,
(02:35):
I don't want to misquote anything, So please you go.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, it's the NL central is. They're so complicated, they're
a little toxic because it just feels like you just
need one team that's built to win ninety games and
it's going to win the division pretty much uncontested every year.
And for a very long time, the Cardinals had built
this threshold up. If we win ninety games, we're going
to get into playoffs and then who knows from there.
(03:01):
But what they were doing was not sustainable. If you
look at their success from twenty twenty. You know, they
made the playoffs twenty from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two,
and then of course twenty twenty three happened in twenty
twenty four was better, but still not enough to get
them back into October baseball.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
So and what will be the.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Final year of their longtime president Baseball Operations, John Waszelok's tenure.
They are taking a step back, which is very unusual
for the people of Cardinals Land. The Cardinals don't necessarily
concede being competitive, but they are doing that. They want
to reset because they're trying to get back to what
they were good at. And when the Cardinals were at
their prime, at their peak, they weren't spending a lot
(03:40):
of money, but they were developing players consistently through their
farm system and they did a really really good job
in that. They have lost their way in that regard,
so they are going back to what they were good at.
It's just going to take potentially a year, probably a
little bit more to get them back.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Into the swing of things, if you will.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
But it's very weird because I can't remember a I'm
you know, covering the Cardinals or even just following baseball
where Saint Louis went out and actively said we're taking
a step back for the next season. So that's kind
of where then Central already gets a little weird. Right
when do the Cardinals say, hey, probably not going to
be us this year? Uh? And then if to me,
it gets a little bit more weird because I'm not
(04:18):
sure which of the four teams. I mean, I think
you're gonna have to go breweries just because they've been
so good over the last few years. Which of those
four teams is going to step up and really make
it their division again.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
It's a frustrating, maddening place here in the NAL Central.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
It's I mean that Cardinals mindset, like sure right, like
this is how teams are built, the lifeblood, let's get
our youth going. It's also scary because nothing's guaranteed. And
the Cardinals themselves, I mean, they became trade memed for
a little bit because it was like, wait, where did
(04:54):
Randy come from? Where did like you know, you could
you people were putting together their Saint Louis Cardinals lineup
of not Saint Louis Cardinals where you know, it just
feels like they had a generation of prospects kind of
pass through. I mean the Dylan Carlson Like I, Katie,
I did three years of Dylan Carlson trade rumors just
for for it to land like that, Like that makes
(05:17):
me a little MOPy. But it's there's also pieces here,
like I loved watching Mason Wynn play, Like every time
I got to see him, I was like, wait, that dude,
he plays with like a little football like dog energy
out there. I love that. Obviously, Aaron Otto, which is
an interesting topic of this whole offseason, and then the
Wilson Contreras update that he's moving, and then you just
(05:40):
you look at if you look at a lot of
rosters around the league, it's like, Hey, these Cardinals, they
have stuff like I've I've seen Brendan Donovan play good baseball.
I've seen out burls. So I don't know. I guess
that's where it sounds like the right move. It sounds like, hey,
let's let's get our bearings, let's let the kids play
and properly figure this out. But I don't know. There's
(06:02):
also a side to that that, you know, Kyle Gibson, Lanceln,
Paul Goldschmidt coming off the books. I don't know. I
guess maybe I'm the one that needs to just put
on different goggles.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
No, not necessarily, because there is a way for this
organization to upgrade their player development and see what they
have internally, and also you know, supplement the club with
free agency.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
The ownership is actively choosing not to.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And I know some of this, and this is a
fair argument for the ownership's sake had a lot to
do with the lack of clarity involving their TV plans.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
That was a legit thing to not plan for in payroll.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
There, you know, they are losing about a quarter of
their revenue that they planned for in twenty twenty five
from TV.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So I do understand that aspect.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
But you know, you are the Saint Louis Cardinals, and
that ownership group has done a tremendous job in making
sure that this organization is competitive almost every single year.
But the Cardinals being operated like they are small market
because they are occupied in a small market town doesn't
always fly with me. Because Saint Louis is always consistently
top five in attendance.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
They're a historic franchise.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I swear I go to every airport in America and
I see at least six Cardinals hats like the fans
are there. It's not necessarily a small market team when
you look at it outside of their geographical location. But
this is what they're choosing to do. They're going to
supplement the funds and re upgrade their player development. I
think the Cardinals will have some farm system hires coming
up in the next couple of days.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Overall, though, it's just.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
A matter of an in twenty twenty five looking at
their young talent and figuring out, Hey, what kind of
pieces can we build around next year?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Is Lars Newbar going to be that guy? You know?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
They know they have Mason Wynn right totally agree with
everything he said.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
He's a dog. What can alec Urlson do.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
We've seen him against right handed hitters, that's a legit
contact bat. What can they count on him consistently for?
What does catching look like behind the plate?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Now?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
With Wilson Conturi's moving to first, what does their pitching
look like? And you really don't know what you have
internally until you can run the guys out every day.
And what makes the season different is that the Cardinals
are saying, we are okay running the same group of
guys out every day to see what we have, even
if it means we lose some winnable ball games, and
that has not happened before under most tenure at least.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, I mean that's for any of our Cardinals friends
tuning in, that's those are words that that fan base
hasn't heard since I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Like ever, right, you don't hear the Cardinals and they're
not kind of to rebuild. And I kind of made
fun of them for that until I fully understood what
they were doing. I don't think it's a full rebuild teardown.
It is a reset, and it's probably the right thing
to do. Otherwise you're just gonna be stuck in this
perpetual cycle. I mean, they spent their entire rotation, their
opening day rotation last year was built all out of
(08:47):
free agency. It's just not sustainable. And how are you
gonna know what you have with this young pipeline of
talent in the minor leagues, especially on a pitching side,
if you're consistently trying to buy spots just to make
sure you to the playoffs and then in twenty three
and twenty four obviously it did not work.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
What are the hesitation in my voice is you're like
a you're a real person in baseball, Like you talk
to people in the front offices and stuff that I
guess I wanted to ask, like, what are the odds
Nolan Aernado actually gets traded? But I don't know where
your boundaries are on like talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
That boundaries boundies don't exist. No, that's I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
But boundaries do exist.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
They do exist. For Nolan.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
It's so complicated because it's not like this is a
cut and dry scenario, right. There are two things here
with Ronado that we have to remember. He has a
full note trade clause and he still loved about seventy
four million dollars through twenty twenty seven. This is a
guy who's turning thirty four and has had two down years. Offensively,
I still think he's an elite defender and obviously a
brand name.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So I do think there is interest on the league.
I've heard it. What we don't know is you know
what teams would.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
He approve or Wave has no trade clause for. We
know he's looking to play for a contender, you know.
I think there is motivation within the organization to move
him because you're clearing so much salary off the books.
But in almost any ideal situation, I think the Cardinals
are going to have to pick up some of that
salary anyway to trade him.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So my ankling and the.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
People that I've talked to, I would say it's sixty
forty at this moment that Arnato gets moved, but I
think we'll have better clarity on what his market looks
like come the Winner meetings. Basically, whenever want Soto signs,
we'll see the Domino effect. People the teams that missed
out on Soto can pivot to the next best thing.
That's probably going to be the third base market. You're
thinking about Alex Bragman, Willi Adamis if he decides to
(10:44):
switch from shortstop, and then you're looking at Ronato or
maybe an Alex Boheme situation with the Phillies. So right
now I'm going to at sixty forty. Either way, it's
not you know, I think how either party would have
wanted this tenure to potentially end.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
It sucks.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I think Arnatto coming in twenty twenty one put a
jolt in this franchise.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And I think about this all the time.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think about twenty twenty two what that club could
have been with Goldschmidt and MVP Albert Poohol. Seven hundred
home runs and one really bad ninth inning in the
first game of the Wildcard Series kind of just ruined everything.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Insane That how that whole thing went down with health.
That was insane. And was that the first year that
was the first like real year of the wildcard? Right?
Or was it the year?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That was I think it was because they were in
the Wildcard in twenty one and lost on a Chris
Taylor walk.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Off, crazy, crazy, silly game. We like final two Cardinal ones.
Who's I mentioned some young guys for the Cardinals? You
know what, Victor Scott Jordan Walker has been an interesting exercise.
I was gonna say Cardinals young pitchers. I'm I'm not
(11:54):
familiar with too many. Oh, you know, like right now,
the rotation looks like Gray Fetti, Michaels, Matt's and Polonte.
I guess, give me who's going to be the young
Cardinals player that Okay, if we are going to do
this and we're the Cardinals, we're going to let some
of the youth play. Who's the one young guy that
(12:14):
we're going to be hearing about either at spring training
or next year that we should be excited about? And
the other one I want to know is like, who's
the who's the sneaky Cardinals free agent that Cardinals fans
are talking about? Like, this guy's a great fit for us.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Okay, let's let's start with the young picture. I think
the Polante deserves a lot of credit for what he
did last year, and.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I like him.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, he's cool, he's funky, deceptive, the cool name too.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
It like fits, yes, yes, yeah, But I'm gonna go
with Mike mcgreeby, who was their twenty twenty one first
round pick.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
He debuted last year. UH made some changes in triple
A last year and came up and was dominant. I
mean his last three starts to in the year. I
think people were like, where's this guy been? Why didn't
the Cardinals call him up earlier? And they will definitely
have plans to use him in twenty twenty five. He's
just a chill, funny guy, great quote. That's not why
(13:12):
I like him, but that does play into his overall stock, right,
But I think he'll be a There's a reason he
was drafted as a first rounder. I know he took
some steps back in Triple A and there were questions
if he'd reached that ceiling, but in his limited sample
size in the majors last year, I was really encouraged
by it, and I think he's a name to watch
comes spring training Cardinals free agents. I would liked you know,
usually we're talking about not necessarily the top guys in
(13:35):
the market, because you know, Saint Louis doesn't really do that,
but you're looking at maybe the B tier.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Not this year, Moe has gone out and said it.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You know, he'd highly unlikely they go out and they
look at the free agent market at all.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Uh, I don't know, at all at all.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
They wanted to see what they have internally. They want
to see what Jordan Walker does in the outfield with
every day Nolan Gorman cut the shrikeout rate down. You
know what is Victor Scott look like? What about Michael
Siani in centerfield? Who's gonna win that upcoming center field job?
You can go on and on, Thomas the Jac coming
up as a utility guy.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Pretty much.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
The only spots they have solidified next year are Mason Wynn,
Brendan Donovan, and Lars Newbar to an extent, but Lars
has to figure out a way to stay on the
field and stay healthy. So doesn't look like the Cardinals
will be looking around the free agent market at all.
I mean, that's at least what Moa said. Things can
change but I wouldn't be surprised that they just kind
of avoid that market entirely.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, just it blows my mind a little bit. And
maybe that's just spoiled Yankee culture a little bit. But
it's the Saint Louis Cardinals. I still don't fully believe
it yet. Like I feel like there's gonna be the
the cheeky we got this guy for a good value
and maybe maybe the car. Like I feel like there's
gonna be a week of spring training that's like maybe
(14:49):
these Cardinals are actually back. And I'm kind of excited
for that. And I'll probably be reading your article on
the Athletic about it. So that's the good news.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
This is the division, this is the division for US APRI.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
We are getting ready as the postseason continues inside the
warehouse Walls blitz Ball Battle five, we've got two time
champion Forgotten Rotten, the two seed taking on the eight
seed in hook Line Sinkers.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
We saw a very good hook line in the last game, well,
let's say very good Drew Davis with Trevor Ploof that
that has kind of gone missing. If I'm honest, I
think it's time we see him show up.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It's so hard for me to pick.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I guess forgotten rotten in this game.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
I don't know how much old man Dan's arm can stand.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Up to it. Trevor's gonna figure it out. At the plate.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
We know he can pitch.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Shelfy's been solid this tournament. It's forgotten rotten for me, guys.
Speaker 6 (15:36):
I also think that the amount of games is going
to be either a positive or negative. I'm not sure yet.
I'm picking hook line.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I've got forgotten rotten.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
I think Trevor Ploof is pissed and embarrassed in the
batter's box where he allegedly played for eight seasons in
the Major League a leg that's where he made his money.
Trevor Ploof, live up to your own bravado. We will
see you later today blitz Ball Battle five inside the
wear Well.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I feel like we should talk about the Brewers, but
I feel like the Brewers' story is almost the same
every year. Maybe we will because they deserve more respect
because they've kind of been the class of the division.
Now they are probably losing Willia Domas, who was you know,
a huge part of their team. Well, hey, another part
(16:22):
of this that I thought would be cool. But if
you don't think it's cool, like whatever, if you wanted
to shout out a person from the Brewers that maybe
people could follow, whether athletic or not athletic, that you're like,
that's kind of your Brewers go to person. But I
guess with the Milwaukee Brewers, what should the conversation be besides, hey,
(16:45):
they've got young guys that play defense and a couple
of them hit and they always pitch.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Well, they're the thing with the Brewers last year was
that they were just super athletic, and there was a
lot of reason. You know, I do think the Brewers
are kind of just cat like cast it out, doubt it.
I don't know why, because they pretty much owned that
division at least since I've been in the NL Central.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And if they can keep up that athletic I don't know. Embodiment.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Oh, next year under Pat Murphy, who did a heck
of a job under some really not great circumstances to
start the year, then yes, of course, losing a domis
that sucks. He was so dynamic in that top part
of the order. And you know, there's always gonna be
questions on if the Brewers trade Devin Williams. But What
Milwaukee does really well is they find talent to mix
(17:32):
and match and it comes up from their farm system
as well, and Pat Murphy puts it together and they
just do the things that could baseball teams do. And
it sounds so simple, right, But watching them work their walks,
be selective in counts, steal bases, take advantage of little mistakes,
it made sense why their record was the way that
it was because they just played athletic, good baseball. So
(17:54):
I don't want to diminish losing a domas maybe Devin
Williams that those will be big pieces.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
But every year the Brewers do this.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I mean last year was Kurt Corbyn Burns and everyone's like,
oh nope, it's not going to be the Brewers here.
It was very much the Brewer's ear in that NL Central.
So I don't know, I watched them. I watched the
Brewers when I can. I would personally follow Adam mccalvey
of MLB dot Com. He is a guy, he's wonderful,
he does a great job over there. But I'm still
if I'm picking a front runner for the division. It's
(18:22):
not like Outlantish to say Milwaukee. It's always Milwaukee.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, they they've kind of earned that credit. Like last
year was the test, Like trading Corbin was like, okay,
if they survived this, and they did more than that.
Like Joey Ortiz, who people thought was the like the
throwing of the trade, he could be the gem of
the trade and probably their starting shortstop. Yeah, there's there's
something that I can't decide if I like it or
(18:49):
hate it yet between the bigger market and smaller market
teams that you know, the Brewers and the early Rays
cracked the code. It was like, hey, if you're gonna
play on our team, you need to play great defense.
Like that's where it starts. Running is usually a part
of that. If you're athletic enough to play good defense,
and then any hitting, we get his bonus and we're
(19:11):
going to pitch the hell out of the ball. That
that is a formula to get you a over five
hundred and then a lot of those years get you
into that nineties wins category. That with the expanded playoffs
is all you need right now that you look around
there their diamond and it's a lot of very good
defensive ballplayers and guys with the potential. It's like Okay,
(19:32):
Garrett Mitchell, who are you? Are you? Are you great?
Are you the top? Like twenty five prospect that meant
missing for a while, and now you've actually played a
little bit of good baseball that I mean, what they
do with the pitching, that's the secret. I mean, Tobias
Meyer's off of the White Sox scrap heap to becoming
(19:53):
a twenty five start three flat era. It's everyone needs
that Brewers pitching line.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
It's insane.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
And for any organization that's you know, I feel like
it's maybe just the organization I cover that doesn't see.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
The value in a pitching lab.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I mean that this is where I think the Cardinals
really fell behind, is how they developed modern day pitching.
I mean their current pitching coach, Dusty Blake, was doing
everything in terms of like pitching development, overhauling the entire system,
and then taking care of a major league staff. I
think if you just look across the division to what
the Brewers are doing, it's the ideal blueprint of how
(20:29):
to get the best and the most out of your organization.
And I think the Brewers do that about as well,
if not the best, as any team in the National League.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Agree you got me. We have so much in common,
and shout out to Milwaukee. If I remember correctly, sneaky
one of your favorite road cities.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
That is true. I always have a great time in Milwaukee.
If you are ever going and you want a list
of things to do, places to eat, bars to go,
they don't post till three out there so you can
have a time. I don't know that from experience or anything.
It's just what I was told Milwaukee, though, sleeper city.
Gotta get out there in the summer.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
That's you know, a lot of people probably would have
lost that bet coming into this, but I'm happy for you.
We did a trip to Milwaukee. I didn't. I didn't
get to see as much of it as I like.
But hopefully, hopefully we'll get back out there soon. I
think the other Okay, let me start over. Sometimes I
(21:26):
forget how much I truly like just like baseball, Like
you know, it's a little bit like of a mental
problem or whatever, but it's things are working out, so
we take it.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
But like.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
This whole division gets me riled up. The Cubs I
think have to be next because they are the ones
that get me. But like I've been so invested in
the Cincinnati Reds, like baseball is now invested in these
Pirates and the Paul Skins clock that like this division's
kind of electric. Let's do the Cubs because they are
(22:01):
Cubs fans in Seattle, Mariners fans have a genuine, a
genuine reason to not like me currently because I'm so
frustrated with both those teams. I I just don't get it. Mariners.
The problem has been so clearly in front of you
for the past three to five to twenty years. However
(22:23):
you want to cut it. Let's get some hitting. The
Cubs is a new thing for me, cause okay, they
let that generation of Cubs baseball go like it was Schwarber,
it was Rizzo, it was you know, it was that
whole guy like everyone always wondered who's gonna be the
one that stays and like it kind of didn't, which
(22:44):
is pretty wild, and it's okay, maybe that's baseball. Maybe
the Cubs are smart. They're not gonna have a thirty
seven year old guy out there who's you know, had
two bad seasons for them, But remember that ring, like, no,
we're moving on to the next one. I don't know.
I think the Cubs front office loves this team they've
(23:05):
assembled and they have no idea why the Brewers are
running laps around them. They even brought in their manager
last year. Now there's some Cody Bellinger smoke this year
that could could be that trade. I originally wanted them
to be a Corbyn Burns landing spot because then I
could be like, hey, Cubs, you did it like Burns
(23:26):
Immenaga Steel like yep, I can get into that, and
then like your lineup makes more sense and you guys
play enough defense that like, Okay, that's it. They signed
Matthew Boyd and maybe that'll be nice for them, and
that's all I'll say about that. But I feel like
the Cubs. I need the Cubs to put more chips in.
(23:47):
They have top prospects, like coming up, I who's who's
the Cubs person? And what do you have the Cubs doing?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I have I share the same sentiments about the Cubs
because again, historic franchise, obviously money on the books to
do this, and the Cubs. I think if I was
a cubsman, I'd be so frustrated because sometimes they're in right,
sometimes they're in the on the guy, they're in on
showdo they were in on bounder right, and then they
just stop being in And it's not like this division,
(24:16):
this isn't like the AL East, right, like it's the
NL Central. The Cubs have all of the means to
put together a team that could blow the rest of
this division.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Out of the water.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Like I keep thinking, I keep hearing about the Reds
and how they're going to be good, and every year
I think they went about what.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Seventy five games, eighty games, and.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Then the Pirates, I feel like we under every season like, oh,
next year they're going to be good. And I do
feel like there is at least a foundation to be
excited about the Pirates four.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
But again, Cardinals are taking a step back.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Brewers, They're they're the team to be, but they aren't
structured in a way where it's inconceivable for the Cubs
to go out and make a couple of splashes and
all of a sudden they're.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
The top team.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And I'm not plugged in enough in that organization to understand.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Why they don't. But when I go to.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Wrigley Field and Cardinals and Cubs play each other a lot,
I look at this Cubs team and I'm like, they're
so close. They're so close. Half of their line up
I'm like, yeah, these are guys, right, And then the
other half I'm like, hmmm, I doubt that these will
be the next of the names that I see when
these teams play a month from now again. So where
can they get overall line of consistency to have the
(25:23):
whole like this is our team, you know, week are
built to compete. They go in on a certain select
pieces and then they just don't finish the puzzle. And
that's what's frustrating. If I was a Cubs fan, I
just like, just finish the puzzle really, like it's right there.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, it's I guess I'm stumbling into what my new
jacism about them is gonna be. My my San Francisco
Giants thing for the past couple of years is that
they have like eight six hole hitters and it's like, okay,
like this is kind of something, but this is nothing
like that's where the Giants have been. The Cubs feel
(25:57):
like a step up above that. But it's all so
you know, Saya Suzuki, I feel like I check in
one month and he's hitting third for them, and he's
the hottest hitter in the National League, and then I'll
check in another month and it's like, oh, say it
has been benched, And I don't know. There's something too
that that doesn't fit the storyline of a baseball season
(26:18):
in win streaks that I don't know. I'm very interested
to see the Cody Bellinger trade. Feels like there's enough
smoke there and money there that makes sense for them
to move on. But I my my biggest concern if
I was a Cubs fan is that this front office
very much believes in what they're doing, that they're not
(26:41):
going to do a Chipson move, that they're gonna No,
we like this team, Let's roll it out again, and
then this year could go by. They win eighty three games,
we call up one of the prospects, one of the
prospects flamed out, and then we're just in the cycle
again that they I guess the Cubs front office just
hasn't earned the credit or respect for me yet that
(27:05):
I don't know the Chicago Cubs should have. They should
cub they should be the big bad wolf in that division,
and they haven't been anywhere close to it.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
No, since they're twenty sixteen, really World championship run. It's
just kind of been like, Oh, it's the Cubs, and
it shouldn't be. They're the Chicago Cubs. They are a
franchise that you know, if you think about baseball, you
immediately know the Cubs are in Chicago, they play at
Wrigley Fields, they have the money to do. So this
would be the year for them to take a big step.
And it kind of seems like we're getting status quo
(27:35):
from everybody in the division.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Okay, let's do the young fun teams that we seemingly
haven't seen win in a little bit. I fell for
the Reds trap. I'll be honest, I was like, wait,
they every one of these young kids can hit, and
it's funny how quickly baseball moves that. It's like, Okay, now,
I don't know, can Christian and Carnassi own Strand hit?
(28:02):
I watched them hit one year, I watched them not
and they had some injuries that I do think set
them back at the start, like TJ Friedelbig Matt McClain. Like,
it's funny that their pitching felt like it came together.
And then these Pittsburgh Pirates, which they're about to get
(28:23):
on my shit list because if your if your GM
comes out and says, hey, yeah, we have this young
pitching and now's the time. And then they did what
they did at the deadline, and hey, who knows what
was available? All that. I get it, I get it,
but man, like Katie Woo, I just looked at the
Pirates lineup and this is not this is not a
(28:47):
wild card competing lineup.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
We talked so much about the pitching, and yeah, the
pitching's fantastic, but you know, but every year it's like
what I said, You look at the Pirates and you're like, oh,
they are You're a and then you get to this
point next year and you know there's still going to
be a year away. It's it's frustrating because I was
there on a Tuesday night at P and C.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Park, Skiens night, and I have gone to countless.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Games at P and C Park where there are like
maximum eight thousand people there. I feel like I can
hear the broadcast four doors down because it's so quiet.
It's Tuesday night in August and it was electric and
Skeens came super close throwing a complete game, and just
to hear how that park responded to good baseball and
(29:34):
getting behind a player that is just you know, lighting
up the game. I was like, this could be Pirates
baseball again. Why are we like perpetually waiting a year
after year for.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
It to be that way?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I don't know, I don't know. And it's it's so true.
It's such a good sports down, it's such a good stadium,
like all of it's true. If you haven't been to
P and C, go are cool? Half flex when like
our stuff got bigger and we didn't know, Yeah, we
did a road trip and we stopped at a Pirates
game and like the Pirates pr guy was like, how
(30:05):
did you not tell us you were coming? Like they
were still I mean again, I think this is twenty
twenty one, so they were two years away from being
a year away. But like God, that fan base wants
anything and they have something. Not only do they have something,
they have like the second coolest thing in the sport
right now, like the besides show. Hey Skens is the
(30:28):
guy that I don't even know? Like, are there are
there trade rumblings? Are there are there free agent rumblings
like this IKF, Brian Reynolds, O'Neil Cruz, Joey Bart currently
listed as the cleanup Nick Gonzalez, Andy Okay, Nick Gonzales,
Hive raised up sure, Andy Rodriguez, Kee, Brian Hayes, Josh Palacios,
(30:51):
Billy Cook is listed as the first baseman.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's a very it's a very Pirates lineup.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But the pitching Mitch Keller, Jared Jones, I don't, I
don't know. I hope, I hope we come out of
this offseason and there's the one or two Pirate signings
that were like, Okay, here's the return of Josh Bell, fantastic,
but have him hit sixth. I need them the guy
(31:25):
that I constantly have thought would be a fit for them,
as Brent Rooker. You know, the the A's should be
asking for a high price tag. But okay, if he's
a d H only that's fine, like slot Brent Rooker
in because his numbers stay with anyone. But I don't
I don't see them putting their chips on the table.
(31:45):
It feels like they're gonna wait for Tamar Johnson and
see what happens. And I so frustrating, so frustrating it is.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
This whole division is just so maddening.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
There.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I liked what the Pirates tried to do with the
trade deadline. It didn't work out, okay, but for the
first time in a long time, they were like, actually
in it, come to right and they added So I
thought that was like a good step. But to me,
what's really going to solidify if the Pirates are serious
about taking that next step is if they do something
in the off season.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
We haven't heard anything.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
That's probably because everyone is so focused on Soto and
obviously are not going to be in that market, right.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Don't I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
You know, I go out and say that hot take alert.
So maybe when we see like the Soto dominoes fall again,
we'll have better clarity on where the these you know,
plan B, plans c's for a lot of these teams
look like I would really like to see the Pirates
take I would like to see every team in the
NAL Central just take one step forward, just one Look.
The Cardinals are already saying they're going to do the opposite.
(32:51):
So for you to do it, like take advantage of that,
you're actually taking two steps forward.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
If you think of it.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
By that logic, one she was taking a step behind you,
so you have a chance to take two steps forward.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Consider it Katie Who's life advice book coming soon.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Don't follow that.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Are you gonna tell me to quit the Reds? Or
Am I gonna be bought back in and be you
know my darkest nights being like well, Hunter Green singer,
Lodolo Martinez can work, and Elie de la Cruz Okay,
he's still sixty seven last year. I don't know. I
already know in my heart of hearts like when spring
rolls around, I'm gonna be like, I kind of like
(33:32):
these Reds again, and I feel like I'm gonna be
hurt by that.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
See, this is what toxic relationships do. Because I too
looked at the Reds lineup and their rotation. I was like, these,
there are some young guys that can ball. Am I
back in on the Reds? And I don't want to
be labeled a Reds hater because I do think they
play some fun baseball. It's just in the five years
I've been in this division, I haven't seen them play
like good baseball consistently. So I would like to see that.
(33:57):
Can you hear about the talent? I think the Singer
trade made sense for both the Reds and the Royals.
You know, they both got pieces that they needed. I
like Hunter Green. He's a guy for me. Not exactly
a bull take to say that, I'm on in on
Ellie Da La Cruz, very in on hold. But if
they start healthy, you know, I could be back in
(34:19):
on the Reds.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And this is what's dangerous about them because they do
this to every year.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, and it just feels like the Brewers are just
gonna make make the relay throw in the eighth inning
and then get the insurance run and they win. Like
that's that's every Reds Brewers game I've ever seen. The
Brewers make the defensive play to strand two runners and
then they get an insurance run on a bloop single.
(34:47):
It's I don't know, I don't know. I need Jamer
to bounce back because I liked him and he kind
of has an every other year thing we'll see. And
yet the Hunter Green, every time I see his stat page,
I'm like, wait, it was that, Like it happened. It
was two seven to five over twenty six starts, like
he he arrived last year. And I think it was
(35:11):
just one of those weird things because if if you
had told Reds fans or baseball people that you were
gonna get the Hunter Green season. Never mind Nick Martinez,
even Andrew Abbott like you'd be like, okay, so it
happened for the Reds and here they were. Did they
finish last second to last to the Pirates.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah, it's your typical Red season. Maybe the Terry Francona
era is the jolt they need. You know, that is
a pretty significant change.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I liked it.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I'm back in.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You've done it.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
There it is, you've done it.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Oh my toxic relationship, but it's Terry Francona. I can
be toxically.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
I mean, if I was looking as like a Reds
fan looking to get hurt again, I wouldn't fault anyone
for being excited about Terry Francona. I'm excited for Terry Francona,
and I don't follow the Reds really at all, so
I get it. However, we've seen the story before.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, okay, I'm all in on the Reds. Yeah. I mean,
I'm just gonna Bruce Bochie this whole thing and just
be like, yeah, what about strategy.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
It worked. It worked for Texas.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
They got their old man. That's how it's gonna work now,
Katie what else you got any any other baseball thoughts
that Chris Rose hasn't gotten out of you on Baseball
Today or anything like that, or general off season thoughts
that you find yourself looking for a platform like Waken
Jake to get them out on the platform.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yes, this is, you know, one thing I'm a little
interested by, and it's not really it's just like an observation.
Sure there are some there's some activity in the Scott
Boris pitching market, and I wonder if people saw what
happened with Blake Smell and Jordan Montgomery last year, and
we're like, hell no, because it's been surprisingly active and
(37:02):
we're seeing just how valuable starting pitching is. Matthew Boyd
getting two years, nine million dollars. I get a lot
of questions on why the Cardinals aren't entertaining trade offers
for Eric Fetty, and I think it's Eric Fetty's making
seven point five million dollars next year. That is nothing
in this market, so of course the Cardinals are going
to hang on to that. It makes me wonder if
(37:24):
there's now a market for Steven Mattz, who was twelve
months this year lefty, you know, coming off three years
of injuries, but they've all been different. So I've just
enjoyed seeing what the boris market with kind of the
second tier pitchers and of course play Smelbing in the
top tier, what they've gotten and how active they've been,
because I think it allows us to kind of sum
up the starting pitching market and surprise, the prices are
(37:46):
once again astronomical. But it's interesting to at least see
some sort of movement in some market because we know
the position playing market is not going to move until
Sodo Science.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, the pitching Ponzi scheme this year is going to
be wild, because you're right like it, Steven Mattz, who
I know Cardinals fans were looking at as a salary
dump of sorts, like I don't know, I could see
another team trash to treasure like Yankee fans are considering
(38:15):
they want a dump Stroman just because it's a big number.
It's eighteen mil. But you know he threw his innings
last year at a fine y R like I'm interested
to see, especially with the early hunt like Frankie Montas.
It's also these front offices think they're really smart that
(38:36):
the Mets circled Frankie Montas and said we want to
get him. We don't want to wait out this free agency.
The Chicago Cubs they said, Matthew Boyd I want him.
So that's that's where I don't know, and I you,
every team and every fan hopes that their front office
(38:56):
is smart enough that Hey, mon TOAs it makes sense,
boy actually pitched incredible last year. He just hasn't put
up innings. Montas has had the arm talent that people
have been looking to tap into that. I'm so interested
to see how the pitching carousel goes between Okay, if
you want Jack Flaherty former cardinal, Okay, you might have
(39:16):
to pay ninety one hundred million, or do we want
to take a chance on one year of like a
Steven Mattz and if it clicks and we get you know,
even his what was it twenty twenty three, like Steven
Matt's one hundred five innings of three eight six, like
we can use that and not put the money on
our books. I do think it's outside of like Sodo
(39:39):
because that's illegal, but it it's probably the most interesting
part of this offseason of how are team's going to
try to jimmy rig their pitching staff without giving the
max dollars for the top free agents, right.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
And when you're seeing what these prices look like, it's
almost impossible to really augment your rotation unless you have
infinity money, which you know some of these organizations do,
but a lot of these organizations claim to not and.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Have not ever spent that way.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
So unless you have a good farm system, you're gonna
have to pay for pitching, and you're gonna have to
pay a lot for it. And there are some organizations
that just will not do that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And it's like, if I was an organization that bred
a bunch of pitching Seattle, Seattle, Seattle, maybe the mirror
is ash in those chips. That's none of my business.
And yeah, I mean you're you're currently talking to two
Yankee fans that are very jealous of what the Dodgers
are doing out West because you mentioned unlimited money, and
(40:41):
it is it is crazy how much the TV deals,
as you well know and laid out, goes into that stuff.
Our guy, Trevor Pluce Twins haven't had a ton of
free agency rumors the past couple of years, and it's like, God,
what what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Like, and they're one of the first teams to say, hey,
not only is like TV impacting us, We're also going
to have to cut payroll because of that, and it
was legitimate. I think people kind of looked around because
they were the first team to do it, like is
that really a reason? And it's very much a reason,
and it's so unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
So crazy how the world spins, Katie. What else should
the people know that you have coming up?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Well, like I said, if the Sun Devils win on Saturday,
just electric content coming from Dallas. If not, I don't know,
but you know what they're I'm not entertaining a world
where ASU doesn't win that big game, so they're going
to win. No, I won't have to explain to my
editors why I'm in morning and not working.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Just kidding.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
I will work when I get there, I do. I'm
sad that you guys will not be there. I love
the Winter meetings. It's like a big It's like a
big high school reunion, but with people you actually like,
so that's cool and yeah, you'll be missed.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
The setup is always imperative. Am I using that word right? Of?
Like if if the hotel bar is in the right place,
it's baseball heaven. It's it's nirvana. I like, I think
we remember San Diego and it was like literally the
Yankees front office in one corner, the Red Sox front
office in one corner. Everyone who was tall was a
(42:12):
former player, everyone who was short as a media person,
and it was just like it sucks, no, I know.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Uh, yes, San Diego best winter meetings venue by far.
In Nashville probably the worst. So let's see where Dallas ranks.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, we'll be back. Uh need it. Uh And thank you.
Katie Wou. You're uh, you're kind of John Boy media family.
Now you kind of weaseled your way in.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
You're like, don't make me emotional during the holiday.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
You're like that neighbor that kind of just shows up
and all right, I guess they're with us now.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah. No, I came in and I've like that annoying neighbor.
And then you guys realize like, Okay, she's like she's
not that bad, Like we can tolerate this, and now
here we.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Are, it's gonna be more work to get rid of
her at this point.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Right, you just took the easy way. I get it.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
No, I knew, I knew. I knew you were in
when you know, there's either half people meet Chris Rose
and they're like, that's the oldest person I've ever talked to, Like,
get me away from him. The other half of people
meet Chris Rose and they're like Chris Rose intentional talk,
like how cool is that? And you're unfortunately one of
those people, so talk head.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, so it's a big deal for me meeting Chris Rosie.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
And Vinnie Passuino. I don't know, Uh, Katie Wu, you're
the best. Thank you so much, you guys.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
You rock. I don't know when I'll see you next,
but I will. I will have an adult.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Beverage for you at the Dallas Winter Meetings Hotel Bar.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
I'm fin a book of Flight right now. I'm not
going to do it.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
I'm not do it already like impulsively bought a TV
just by Oh, don't got him, don't bring that up.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
My living room is ruined. And and the show, uh,
we can take his production j Patrick Productions, John Boy Media,
and work House Media
We are joined by a very special guest today. It's
Katie Woo from the athletic and most importantly, the potential
Big Twelve champion Arizona State Sun Devils.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's right, that's right, and I have waited.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I don't know my whole life for this, So not
to be dramatic, but my mood at the Winter Meetings,
which start Sunday, will be directly correlated to if ASU
wins the Big Twelve championship game on Saturday. If they win,
you can expect some really good work for me. If
they don't, just gonna, I might not even go.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, you're in a safe place for that attitude, because
that's kind of how we operate here. Winter Meetings. Is
it in Dallas or Arlington?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Actually Dallas.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I think it's actually Dallas.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Actually Dallas.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I kind of screwed up on that one. We were
kind of like, we're not doing it. But I love Dallas.
I lived there for a year and a half. Maybe
I'll just panic him buy a flight. We'll see, Probably
won't Katie Woo. I want to talk to you mostly
about life. We'll start with your early years and we'll
work our way up. But I did want to talk
(01:06):
the NL Central. Everyone's favorite division. You know me, I
play for clicks, so I said, let's do our Central Division.
But honestly, part of the genuine excitement around it, besides
being baseball losers, is your Cardinals. And this is part
where I got the initial idea. You know, I was
(01:30):
reading my tea leaves. At first. I was like, wait,
there's some money coming off the books, like these are
the Cardinals, right, these are the proud Saint Louis Cardinals.
You've lived in Saint Louis for a while, now this
is this is our team. The Rams are out like,
let's figure this out. The Central's available, and there's free
agents to have. Let's move a couple pieces. And I
(01:51):
was like, ooh, could they be. I've been looking for
a Corbyn Burns team for a while and I can't
find it. And I keep going through NL Central teams
where I'm like, wait, well, maybe say Lewis put their
chips in, or will the Cubs. The Cubs have tormented
me more than Saint Louis because I have no clue
what they're doing. The Pirates they told us they were
going to buy at the deadline, and they've dfayed one
(02:13):
of those players, and IKF remains story of my life.
And the Brewers just find a way to win the division.
So as you can tell, I just chugged a coffee
and I'm running a little hot anyways. More, Yeah, let's
start with your Saint Louis Cardinals, because well, I'll just
let you go because I don't from our previous exchanges,
(02:35):
I don't want to misquote anything, So please you go.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, it's the NL central is. They're so complicated, they're
a little toxic because it just feels like you just
need one team that's built to win ninety games and
it's going to win the division pretty much uncontested every year.
And for a very long time, the Cardinals had built
this threshold up. If we win ninety games, we're going
to get into playoffs and then who knows from there.
(03:01):
But what they were doing was not sustainable. If you
look at their success from twenty twenty. You know, they
made the playoffs twenty from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two,
and then of course twenty twenty three happened in twenty
twenty four was better, but still not enough to get
them back into October baseball.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
So and what will be the.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Final year of their longtime president Baseball Operations, John Waszelok's tenure.
They are taking a step back, which is very unusual
for the people of Cardinals Land. The Cardinals don't necessarily
concede being competitive, but they are doing that. They want
to reset because they're trying to get back to what
they were good at. And when the Cardinals were at
their prime, at their peak, they weren't spending a lot
(03:40):
of money, but they were developing players consistently through their
farm system and they did a really really good job
in that. They have lost their way in that regard,
so they are going back to what they were good at.
It's just going to take potentially a year, probably a
little bit more to get them back.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Into the swing of things, if you will.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
But it's very weird because I can't remember a I'm
you know, covering the Cardinals or even just following baseball
where Saint Louis went out and actively said we're taking
a step back for the next season. So that's kind
of where then Central already gets a little weird. Right
when do the Cardinals say, hey, probably not going to
be us this year? Uh? And then if to me,
it gets a little bit more weird because I'm not
(04:18):
sure which of the four teams. I mean, I think
you're gonna have to go breweries just because they've been
so good over the last few years. Which of those
four teams is going to step up and really make
it their division again.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
It's a frustrating, maddening place here in the NAL Central.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
It's I mean that Cardinals mindset, like sure right, like
this is how teams are built, the lifeblood, let's get
our youth going. It's also scary because nothing's guaranteed. And
the Cardinals themselves, I mean, they became trade memed for
a little bit because it was like, wait, where did
(04:54):
Randy come from? Where did like you know, you could
you people were putting together their Saint Louis Cardinals lineup
of not Saint Louis Cardinals where you know, it just
feels like they had a generation of prospects kind of
pass through. I mean the Dylan Carlson Like I, Katie,
I did three years of Dylan Carlson trade rumors just
for for it to land like that, Like that makes
(05:17):
me a little MOPy. But it's there's also pieces here,
like I loved watching Mason Wynn play, Like every time
I got to see him, I was like, wait, that dude,
he plays with like a little football like dog energy
out there. I love that. Obviously, Aaron Otto, which is
an interesting topic of this whole offseason, and then the
Wilson Contreras update that he's moving, and then you just
(05:40):
you look at if you look at a lot of
rosters around the league, it's like, Hey, these Cardinals, they
have stuff like I've I've seen Brendan Donovan play good baseball.
I've seen out burls. So I don't know. I guess
that's where it sounds like the right move. It sounds like, hey,
let's let's get our bearings, let's let the kids play
and properly figure this out. But I don't know. There's
(06:02):
also a side to that that, you know, Kyle Gibson, Lanceln,
Paul Goldschmidt coming off the books. I don't know. I
guess maybe I'm the one that needs to just put
on different goggles.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
No, not necessarily, because there is a way for this
organization to upgrade their player development and see what they
have internally, and also you know, supplement the club with
free agency.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
The ownership is actively choosing not to.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And I know some of this, and this is a
fair argument for the ownership's sake had a lot to
do with the lack of clarity involving their TV plans.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
That was a legit thing to not plan for in payroll.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
There, you know, they are losing about a quarter of
their revenue that they planned for in twenty twenty five
from TV.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So I do understand that aspect.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
But you know, you are the Saint Louis Cardinals, and
that ownership group has done a tremendous job in making
sure that this organization is competitive almost every single year.
But the Cardinals being operated like they are small market
because they are occupied in a small market town doesn't
always fly with me. Because Saint Louis is always consistently
top five in attendance.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
They're a historic franchise.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I swear I go to every airport in America and
I see at least six Cardinals hats like the fans
are there. It's not necessarily a small market team when
you look at it outside of their geographical location. But
this is what they're choosing to do. They're going to
supplement the funds and re upgrade their player development. I
think the Cardinals will have some farm system hires coming
up in the next couple of days.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Overall, though, it's just.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
A matter of an in twenty twenty five looking at
their young talent and figuring out, Hey, what kind of
pieces can we build around next year?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Is Lars Newbar going to be that guy? You know?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
They know they have Mason Wynn right totally agree with
everything he said.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
He's a dog. What can alec Urlson do.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
We've seen him against right handed hitters, that's a legit
contact bat. What can they count on him consistently for?
What does catching look like behind the plate?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Now?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
With Wilson Conturi's moving to first, what does their pitching
look like? And you really don't know what you have
internally until you can run the guys out every day.
And what makes the season different is that the Cardinals
are saying, we are okay running the same group of
guys out every day to see what we have, even
if it means we lose some winnable ball games, and
that has not happened before under most tenure at least.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, I mean that's for any of our Cardinals friends
tuning in, that's those are words that that fan base
hasn't heard since I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Like ever, right, you don't hear the Cardinals and they're
not kind of to rebuild. And I kind of made
fun of them for that until I fully understood what
they were doing. I don't think it's a full rebuild teardown.
It is a reset, and it's probably the right thing
to do. Otherwise you're just gonna be stuck in this
perpetual cycle. I mean, they spent their entire rotation, their
opening day rotation last year was built all out of
(08:47):
free agency. It's just not sustainable. And how are you
gonna know what you have with this young pipeline of
talent in the minor leagues, especially on a pitching side,
if you're consistently trying to buy spots just to make
sure you to the playoffs and then in twenty three
and twenty four obviously it did not work.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
What are the hesitation in my voice is you're like
a you're a real person in baseball, Like you talk
to people in the front offices and stuff that I
guess I wanted to ask, like, what are the odds
Nolan Aernado actually gets traded? But I don't know where
your boundaries are on like talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
That boundaries boundies don't exist. No, that's I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
But boundaries do exist.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
They do exist. For Nolan.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
It's so complicated because it's not like this is a
cut and dry scenario, right. There are two things here
with Ronado that we have to remember. He has a
full note trade clause and he still loved about seventy
four million dollars through twenty twenty seven. This is a
guy who's turning thirty four and has had two down years. Offensively,
I still think he's an elite defender and obviously a
brand name.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So I do think there is interest on the league.
I've heard it. What we don't know is you know
what teams would.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
He approve or Wave has no trade clause for. We
know he's looking to play for a contender, you know.
I think there is motivation within the organization to move
him because you're clearing so much salary off the books.
But in almost any ideal situation, I think the Cardinals
are going to have to pick up some of that
salary anyway to trade him.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So my ankling and the.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
People that I've talked to, I would say it's sixty
forty at this moment that Arnato gets moved, but I
think we'll have better clarity on what his market looks
like come the Winner meetings. Basically, whenever want Soto signs,
we'll see the Domino effect. People the teams that missed
out on Soto can pivot to the next best thing.
That's probably going to be the third base market. You're
thinking about Alex Bragman, Willi Adamis if he decides to
(10:44):
switch from shortstop, and then you're looking at Ronato or
maybe an Alex Boheme situation with the Phillies. So right
now I'm going to at sixty forty. Either way, it's
not you know, I think how either party would have
wanted this tenure to potentially end.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
It sucks.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I think Arnatto coming in twenty twenty one put a
jolt in this franchise.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And I think about this all the time.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think about twenty twenty two what that club could
have been with Goldschmidt and MVP Albert Poohol. Seven hundred
home runs and one really bad ninth inning in the
first game of the Wildcard Series kind of just ruined everything.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Insane That how that whole thing went down with health.
That was insane. And was that the first year that
was the first like real year of the wildcard? Right?
Or was it the year?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That was I think it was because they were in
the Wildcard in twenty one and lost on a Chris
Taylor walk.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Off, crazy, crazy, silly game. We like final two Cardinal ones.
Who's I mentioned some young guys for the Cardinals? You
know what, Victor Scott Jordan Walker has been an interesting exercise.
I was gonna say Cardinals young pitchers. I'm I'm not
(11:54):
familiar with too many. Oh, you know, like right now,
the rotation looks like Gray Fetti, Michaels, Matt's and Polonte.
I guess, give me who's going to be the young
Cardinals player that Okay, if we are going to do
this and we're the Cardinals, we're going to let some
of the youth play. Who's the one young guy that
(12:14):
we're going to be hearing about either at spring training
or next year that we should be excited about? And
the other one I want to know is like, who's
the who's the sneaky Cardinals free agent that Cardinals fans
are talking about? Like, this guy's a great fit for us.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Okay, let's let's start with the young picture. I think
the Polante deserves a lot of credit for what he
did last year, and.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I like him.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, he's cool, he's funky, deceptive, the cool name too.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
It like fits, yes, yes, yeah, But I'm gonna go
with Mike mcgreeby, who was their twenty twenty one first
round pick.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
He debuted last year. UH made some changes in triple
A last year and came up and was dominant. I
mean his last three starts to in the year. I
think people were like, where's this guy been? Why didn't
the Cardinals call him up earlier? And they will definitely
have plans to use him in twenty twenty five. He's
just a chill, funny guy, great quote. That's not why
(13:12):
I like him, but that does play into his overall stock, right,
But I think he'll be a There's a reason he
was drafted as a first rounder. I know he took
some steps back in Triple A and there were questions
if he'd reached that ceiling, but in his limited sample
size in the majors last year, I was really encouraged
by it, and I think he's a name to watch
comes spring training Cardinals free agents. I would liked you know,
usually we're talking about not necessarily the top guys in
(13:35):
the market, because you know, Saint Louis doesn't really do that,
but you're looking at maybe the B tier.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Not this year, Moe has gone out and said it.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You know, he'd highly unlikely they go out and they
look at the free agent market at all.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Uh, I don't know, at all at all.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
They wanted to see what they have internally. They want
to see what Jordan Walker does in the outfield with
every day Nolan Gorman cut the shrikeout rate down. You
know what is Victor Scott look like? What about Michael
Siani in centerfield? Who's gonna win that upcoming center field job?
You can go on and on, Thomas the Jac coming
up as a utility guy.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Pretty much.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
The only spots they have solidified next year are Mason Wynn,
Brendan Donovan, and Lars Newbar to an extent, but Lars
has to figure out a way to stay on the
field and stay healthy. So doesn't look like the Cardinals
will be looking around the free agent market at all.
I mean, that's at least what Moa said. Things can
change but I wouldn't be surprised that they just kind
of avoid that market entirely.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, just it blows my mind a little bit. And
maybe that's just spoiled Yankee culture a little bit. But
it's the Saint Louis Cardinals. I still don't fully believe
it yet. Like I feel like there's gonna be the
the cheeky we got this guy for a good value
and maybe maybe the car. Like I feel like there's
gonna be a week of spring training that's like maybe
(14:49):
these Cardinals are actually back. And I'm kind of excited
for that. And I'll probably be reading your article on
the Athletic about it. So that's the good news.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
This is the division, this is the division for US APRI.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
We are getting ready as the postseason continues inside the
warehouse Walls blitz Ball Battle five, we've got two time
champion Forgotten Rotten, the two seed taking on the eight
seed in hook Line Sinkers.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
We saw a very good hook line in the last game, well,
let's say very good Drew Davis with Trevor Ploof that
that has kind of gone missing. If I'm honest, I
think it's time we see him show up.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It's so hard for me to pick.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I guess forgotten rotten in this game.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
I don't know how much old man Dan's arm can stand.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Up to it. Trevor's gonna figure it out. At the plate.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
We know he can pitch.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Shelfy's been solid this tournament. It's forgotten rotten for me, guys.
Speaker 6 (15:36):
I also think that the amount of games is going
to be either a positive or negative. I'm not sure yet.
I'm picking hook line.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I've got forgotten rotten.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
I think Trevor Ploof is pissed and embarrassed in the
batter's box where he allegedly played for eight seasons in
the Major League a leg that's where he made his money.
Trevor Ploof, live up to your own bravado. We will
see you later today blitz Ball Battle five inside the
wear Well.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I feel like we should talk about the Brewers, but
I feel like the Brewers' story is almost the same
every year. Maybe we will because they deserve more respect
because they've kind of been the class of the division.
Now they are probably losing Willia Domas, who was you know,
a huge part of their team. Well, hey, another part
(16:22):
of this that I thought would be cool. But if
you don't think it's cool, like whatever, if you wanted
to shout out a person from the Brewers that maybe
people could follow, whether athletic or not athletic, that you're like,
that's kind of your Brewers go to person. But I
guess with the Milwaukee Brewers, what should the conversation be besides, hey,
(16:45):
they've got young guys that play defense and a couple
of them hit and they always pitch.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Well, they're the thing with the Brewers last year was
that they were just super athletic, and there was a
lot of reason. You know, I do think the Brewers
are kind of just cat like cast it out, doubt it.
I don't know why, because they pretty much owned that
division at least since I've been in the NL Central.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And if they can keep up that athletic I don't know. Embodiment.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Oh, next year under Pat Murphy, who did a heck
of a job under some really not great circumstances to
start the year, then yes, of course, losing a domis
that sucks. He was so dynamic in that top part
of the order. And you know, there's always gonna be
questions on if the Brewers trade Devin Williams. But What
Milwaukee does really well is they find talent to mix
(17:32):
and match and it comes up from their farm system
as well, and Pat Murphy puts it together and they
just do the things that could baseball teams do. And
it sounds so simple, right, But watching them work their walks,
be selective in counts, steal bases, take advantage of little mistakes,
it made sense why their record was the way that
it was because they just played athletic, good baseball. So
(17:54):
I don't want to diminish losing a domas maybe Devin
Williams that those will be big pieces.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
But every year the Brewers do this.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I mean last year was Kurt Corbyn Burns and everyone's like,
oh nope, it's not going to be the Brewers here.
It was very much the Brewer's ear in that NL Central.
So I don't know, I watched them. I watched the
Brewers when I can. I would personally follow Adam mccalvey
of MLB dot Com. He is a guy, he's wonderful,
he does a great job over there. But I'm still
if I'm picking a front runner for the division. It's
(18:22):
not like Outlantish to say Milwaukee. It's always Milwaukee.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, they they've kind of earned that credit. Like last
year was the test, Like trading Corbin was like, okay,
if they survived this, and they did more than that.
Like Joey Ortiz, who people thought was the like the
throwing of the trade, he could be the gem of
the trade and probably their starting shortstop. Yeah, there's there's
something that I can't decide if I like it or
(18:49):
hate it yet between the bigger market and smaller market
teams that you know, the Brewers and the early Rays
cracked the code. It was like, hey, if you're gonna
play on our team, you need to play great defense.
Like that's where it starts. Running is usually a part
of that. If you're athletic enough to play good defense,
and then any hitting, we get his bonus and we're
(19:11):
going to pitch the hell out of the ball. That
that is a formula to get you a over five
hundred and then a lot of those years get you
into that nineties wins category. That with the expanded playoffs
is all you need right now that you look around
there their diamond and it's a lot of very good
defensive ballplayers and guys with the potential. It's like Okay,
(19:32):
Garrett Mitchell, who are you? Are you? Are you great?
Are you the top? Like twenty five prospect that meant
missing for a while, and now you've actually played a
little bit of good baseball that I mean, what they
do with the pitching, that's the secret. I mean, Tobias
Meyer's off of the White Sox scrap heap to becoming
(19:53):
a twenty five start three flat era. It's everyone needs
that Brewers pitching line.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
It's insane.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
And for any organization that's you know, I feel like
it's maybe just the organization I cover that doesn't see.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
The value in a pitching lab.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I mean that this is where I think the Cardinals
really fell behind, is how they developed modern day pitching.
I mean their current pitching coach, Dusty Blake, was doing
everything in terms of like pitching development, overhauling the entire system,
and then taking care of a major league staff. I
think if you just look across the division to what
the Brewers are doing, it's the ideal blueprint of how
(20:29):
to get the best and the most out of your organization.
And I think the Brewers do that about as well,
if not the best, as any team in the National League.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Agree you got me. We have so much in common,
and shout out to Milwaukee. If I remember correctly, sneaky
one of your favorite road cities.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
That is true. I always have a great time in Milwaukee.
If you are ever going and you want a list
of things to do, places to eat, bars to go,
they don't post till three out there so you can
have a time. I don't know that from experience or anything.
It's just what I was told Milwaukee, though, sleeper city.
Gotta get out there in the summer.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
That's you know, a lot of people probably would have
lost that bet coming into this, but I'm happy for you.
We did a trip to Milwaukee. I didn't. I didn't
get to see as much of it as I like.
But hopefully, hopefully we'll get back out there soon. I
think the other Okay, let me start over. Sometimes I
(21:26):
forget how much I truly like just like baseball, Like
you know, it's a little bit like of a mental
problem or whatever, but it's things are working out, so
we take it.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
But like.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
This whole division gets me riled up. The Cubs I
think have to be next because they are the ones
that get me. But like I've been so invested in
the Cincinnati Reds, like baseball is now invested in these
Pirates and the Paul Skins clock that like this division's
kind of electric. Let's do the Cubs because they are
(22:01):
Cubs fans in Seattle, Mariners fans have a genuine, a
genuine reason to not like me currently because I'm so
frustrated with both those teams. I I just don't get it. Mariners.
The problem has been so clearly in front of you
for the past three to five to twenty years. However
(22:23):
you want to cut it. Let's get some hitting. The
Cubs is a new thing for me, cause okay, they
let that generation of Cubs baseball go like it was Schwarber,
it was Rizzo, it was you know, it was that
whole guy like everyone always wondered who's gonna be the
one that stays and like it kind of didn't, which
(22:44):
is pretty wild, and it's okay, maybe that's baseball. Maybe
the Cubs are smart. They're not gonna have a thirty
seven year old guy out there who's you know, had
two bad seasons for them, But remember that ring, like, no,
we're moving on to the next one. I don't know.
I think the Cubs front office loves this team they've
(23:05):
assembled and they have no idea why the Brewers are
running laps around them. They even brought in their manager
last year. Now there's some Cody Bellinger smoke this year
that could could be that trade. I originally wanted them
to be a Corbyn Burns landing spot because then I
could be like, hey, Cubs, you did it like Burns
(23:26):
Immenaga Steel like yep, I can get into that, and
then like your lineup makes more sense and you guys
play enough defense that like, Okay, that's it. They signed
Matthew Boyd and maybe that'll be nice for them, and
that's all I'll say about that. But I feel like
the Cubs. I need the Cubs to put more chips in.
(23:47):
They have top prospects, like coming up, I who's who's
the Cubs person? And what do you have the Cubs doing?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I have I share the same sentiments about the Cubs
because again, historic franchise, obviously money on the books to
do this, and the Cubs. I think if I was
a cubsman, I'd be so frustrated because sometimes they're in right,
sometimes they're in the on the guy, they're in on
showdo they were in on bounder right, and then they
just stop being in And it's not like this division,
(24:16):
this isn't like the AL East, right, like it's the
NL Central. The Cubs have all of the means to
put together a team that could blow the rest of
this division.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Out of the water.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Like I keep thinking, I keep hearing about the Reds
and how they're going to be good, and every year
I think they went about what.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Seventy five games, eighty games, and.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Then the Pirates, I feel like we under every season like, oh,
next year they're going to be good. And I do
feel like there is at least a foundation to be
excited about the Pirates four.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
But again, Cardinals are taking a step back.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Brewers, They're they're the team to be, but they aren't
structured in a way where it's inconceivable for the Cubs
to go out and make a couple of splashes and
all of a sudden they're.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
The top team.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And I'm not plugged in enough in that organization to understand.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Why they don't. But when I go to.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Wrigley Field and Cardinals and Cubs play each other a lot,
I look at this Cubs team and I'm like, they're
so close. They're so close. Half of their line up
I'm like, yeah, these are guys, right, And then the
other half I'm like, hmmm, I doubt that these will
be the next of the names that I see when
these teams play a month from now again. So where
can they get overall line of consistency to have the
(25:23):
whole like this is our team, you know, week are
built to compete. They go in on a certain select
pieces and then they just don't finish the puzzle. And
that's what's frustrating. If I was a Cubs fan, I
just like, just finish the puzzle really, like it's right there.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, it's I guess I'm stumbling into what my new
jacism about them is gonna be. My my San Francisco
Giants thing for the past couple of years is that
they have like eight six hole hitters and it's like, okay,
like this is kind of something, but this is nothing
like that's where the Giants have been. The Cubs feel
(25:57):
like a step up above that. But it's all so
you know, Saya Suzuki, I feel like I check in
one month and he's hitting third for them, and he's
the hottest hitter in the National League, and then I'll
check in another month and it's like, oh, say it
has been benched, And I don't know. There's something too
that that doesn't fit the storyline of a baseball season
(26:18):
in win streaks that I don't know. I'm very interested
to see the Cody Bellinger trade. Feels like there's enough
smoke there and money there that makes sense for them
to move on. But I my my biggest concern if
I was a Cubs fan is that this front office
very much believes in what they're doing, that they're not
(26:41):
going to do a Chipson move, that they're gonna No,
we like this team, Let's roll it out again, and
then this year could go by. They win eighty three games,
we call up one of the prospects, one of the
prospects flamed out, and then we're just in the cycle
again that they I guess the Cubs front office just
hasn't earned the credit or respect for me yet that
(27:05):
I don't know the Chicago Cubs should have. They should
cub they should be the big bad wolf in that division,
and they haven't been anywhere close to it.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
No, since they're twenty sixteen, really World championship run. It's
just kind of been like, Oh, it's the Cubs, and
it shouldn't be. They're the Chicago Cubs. They are a
franchise that you know, if you think about baseball, you
immediately know the Cubs are in Chicago, they play at
Wrigley Fields, they have the money to do. So this
would be the year for them to take a big step.
And it kind of seems like we're getting status quo
(27:35):
from everybody in the division.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Okay, let's do the young fun teams that we seemingly
haven't seen win in a little bit. I fell for
the Reds trap. I'll be honest, I was like, wait,
they every one of these young kids can hit, and
it's funny how quickly baseball moves that. It's like, Okay, now,
I don't know, can Christian and Carnassi own Strand hit?
(28:02):
I watched them hit one year, I watched them not
and they had some injuries that I do think set
them back at the start, like TJ Friedelbig Matt McClain. Like,
it's funny that their pitching felt like it came together.
And then these Pittsburgh Pirates, which they're about to get
(28:23):
on my shit list because if your if your GM
comes out and says, hey, yeah, we have this young
pitching and now's the time. And then they did what
they did at the deadline, and hey, who knows what
was available? All that. I get it, I get it,
but man, like Katie Woo, I just looked at the
Pirates lineup and this is not this is not a
(28:47):
wild card competing lineup.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
We talked so much about the pitching, and yeah, the
pitching's fantastic, but you know, but every year it's like
what I said, You look at the Pirates and you're like, oh,
they are You're a and then you get to this
point next year and you know there's still going to
be a year away. It's it's frustrating because I was
there on a Tuesday night at P and C.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Park, Skiens night, and I have gone to countless.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Games at P and C Park where there are like
maximum eight thousand people there. I feel like I can
hear the broadcast four doors down because it's so quiet.
It's Tuesday night in August and it was electric and
Skeens came super close throwing a complete game, and just
to hear how that park responded to good baseball and
(29:34):
getting behind a player that is just you know, lighting
up the game. I was like, this could be Pirates
baseball again. Why are we like perpetually waiting a year
after year for.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
It to be that way?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I don't know, I don't know. And it's it's so true.
It's such a good sports down, it's such a good stadium,
like all of it's true. If you haven't been to
P and C, go are cool? Half flex when like
our stuff got bigger and we didn't know, Yeah, we
did a road trip and we stopped at a Pirates
game and like the Pirates pr guy was like, how
(30:05):
did you not tell us you were coming? Like they
were still I mean again, I think this is twenty
twenty one, so they were two years away from being
a year away. But like God, that fan base wants
anything and they have something. Not only do they have something,
they have like the second coolest thing in the sport
right now, like the besides show. Hey Skens is the
(30:28):
guy that I don't even know? Like, are there are
there trade rumblings? Are there are there free agent rumblings
like this IKF, Brian Reynolds, O'Neil Cruz, Joey Bart currently
listed as the cleanup Nick Gonzalez, Andy Okay, Nick Gonzales,
Hive raised up sure, Andy Rodriguez, Kee, Brian Hayes, Josh Palacios,
(30:51):
Billy Cook is listed as the first baseman.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's a very it's a very Pirates lineup.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But the pitching Mitch Keller, Jared Jones, I don't, I
don't know. I hope, I hope we come out of
this offseason and there's the one or two Pirate signings
that were like, Okay, here's the return of Josh Bell, fantastic,
but have him hit sixth. I need them the guy
(31:25):
that I constantly have thought would be a fit for them,
as Brent Rooker. You know, the the A's should be
asking for a high price tag. But okay, if he's
a d H only that's fine, like slot Brent Rooker
in because his numbers stay with anyone. But I don't
I don't see them putting their chips on the table.
(31:45):
It feels like they're gonna wait for Tamar Johnson and
see what happens. And I so frustrating, so frustrating it is.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
This whole division is just so maddening.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
There.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I liked what the Pirates tried to do with the
trade deadline. It didn't work out, okay, but for the
first time in a long time, they were like, actually
in it, come to right and they added So I
thought that was like a good step. But to me,
what's really going to solidify if the Pirates are serious
about taking that next step is if they do something
in the off season.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
We haven't heard anything.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
That's probably because everyone is so focused on Soto and
obviously are not going to be in that market, right.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Don't I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
You know, I go out and say that hot take alert.
So maybe when we see like the Soto dominoes fall again,
we'll have better clarity on where the these you know,
plan B, plans c's for a lot of these teams
look like I would really like to see the Pirates
take I would like to see every team in the
NAL Central just take one step forward, just one Look.
The Cardinals are already saying they're going to do the opposite.
(32:51):
So for you to do it, like take advantage of that,
you're actually taking two steps forward.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
If you think of it.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
By that logic, one she was taking a step behind you,
so you have a chance to take two steps forward.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Consider it Katie Who's life advice book coming soon.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Don't follow that.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Are you gonna tell me to quit the Reds? Or
Am I gonna be bought back in and be you
know my darkest nights being like well, Hunter Green singer,
Lodolo Martinez can work, and Elie de la Cruz Okay,
he's still sixty seven last year. I don't know. I
already know in my heart of hearts like when spring
rolls around, I'm gonna be like, I kind of like
(33:32):
these Reds again, and I feel like I'm gonna be
hurt by that.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
See, this is what toxic relationships do. Because I too
looked at the Reds lineup and their rotation. I was like, these,
there are some young guys that can ball. Am I
back in on the Reds? And I don't want to
be labeled a Reds hater because I do think they
play some fun baseball. It's just in the five years
I've been in this division, I haven't seen them play
like good baseball consistently. So I would like to see that.
(33:57):
Can you hear about the talent? I think the Singer
trade made sense for both the Reds and the Royals.
You know, they both got pieces that they needed. I
like Hunter Green. He's a guy for me. Not exactly
a bull take to say that, I'm on in on
Ellie Da La Cruz, very in on hold. But if
they start healthy, you know, I could be back in
(34:19):
on the Reds.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And this is what's dangerous about them because they do
this to every year.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, and it just feels like the Brewers are just
gonna make make the relay throw in the eighth inning
and then get the insurance run and they win. Like
that's that's every Reds Brewers game I've ever seen. The
Brewers make the defensive play to strand two runners and
then they get an insurance run on a bloop single.
(34:47):
It's I don't know, I don't know. I need Jamer
to bounce back because I liked him and he kind
of has an every other year thing we'll see. And
yet the Hunter Green, every time I see his stat page,
I'm like, wait, it was that, Like it happened. It
was two seven to five over twenty six starts, like
he he arrived last year. And I think it was
(35:11):
just one of those weird things because if if you
had told Reds fans or baseball people that you were
gonna get the Hunter Green season. Never mind Nick Martinez,
even Andrew Abbott like you'd be like, okay, so it
happened for the Reds and here they were. Did they
finish last second to last to the Pirates.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah, it's your typical Red season. Maybe the Terry Francona
era is the jolt they need. You know, that is
a pretty significant change.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I liked it.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I'm back in.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You've done it.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
There it is, you've done it.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Oh my toxic relationship, but it's Terry Francona. I can
be toxically.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
I mean, if I was looking as like a Reds
fan looking to get hurt again, I wouldn't fault anyone
for being excited about Terry Francona. I'm excited for Terry Francona,
and I don't follow the Reds really at all, so
I get it. However, we've seen the story before.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, okay, I'm all in on the Reds. Yeah. I mean,
I'm just gonna Bruce Bochie this whole thing and just
be like, yeah, what about strategy.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
It worked. It worked for Texas.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
They got their old man. That's how it's gonna work now,
Katie what else you got any any other baseball thoughts
that Chris Rose hasn't gotten out of you on Baseball
Today or anything like that, or general off season thoughts
that you find yourself looking for a platform like Waken
Jake to get them out on the platform.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yes, this is, you know, one thing I'm a little
interested by, and it's not really it's just like an observation.
Sure there are some there's some activity in the Scott
Boris pitching market, and I wonder if people saw what
happened with Blake Smell and Jordan Montgomery last year, and
we're like, hell no, because it's been surprisingly active and
(37:02):
we're seeing just how valuable starting pitching is. Matthew Boyd
getting two years, nine million dollars. I get a lot
of questions on why the Cardinals aren't entertaining trade offers
for Eric Fetty, and I think it's Eric Fetty's making
seven point five million dollars next year. That is nothing
in this market, so of course the Cardinals are going
to hang on to that. It makes me wonder if
(37:24):
there's now a market for Steven Mattz, who was twelve
months this year lefty, you know, coming off three years
of injuries, but they've all been different. So I've just
enjoyed seeing what the boris market with kind of the
second tier pitchers and of course play Smelbing in the
top tier, what they've gotten and how active they've been,
because I think it allows us to kind of sum
up the starting pitching market and surprise, the prices are
(37:46):
once again astronomical. But it's interesting to at least see
some sort of movement in some market because we know
the position playing market is not going to move until
Sodo Science.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, the pitching Ponzi scheme this year is going to
be wild, because you're right like it, Steven Mattz, who
I know Cardinals fans were looking at as a salary
dump of sorts, like I don't know, I could see
another team trash to treasure like Yankee fans are considering
(38:15):
they want a dump Stroman just because it's a big number.
It's eighteen mil. But you know he threw his innings
last year at a fine y R like I'm interested
to see, especially with the early hunt like Frankie Montas.
It's also these front offices think they're really smart that
(38:36):
the Mets circled Frankie Montas and said we want to
get him. We don't want to wait out this free agency.
The Chicago Cubs they said, Matthew Boyd I want him.
So that's that's where I don't know, and I you,
every team and every fan hopes that their front office
(38:56):
is smart enough that Hey, mon TOAs it makes sense,
boy actually pitched incredible last year. He just hasn't put
up innings. Montas has had the arm talent that people
have been looking to tap into that. I'm so interested
to see how the pitching carousel goes between Okay, if
you want Jack Flaherty former cardinal, Okay, you might have
(39:16):
to pay ninety one hundred million, or do we want
to take a chance on one year of like a
Steven Mattz and if it clicks and we get you know,
even his what was it twenty twenty three, like Steven
Matt's one hundred five innings of three eight six, like
we can use that and not put the money on
our books. I do think it's outside of like Sodo
(39:39):
because that's illegal, but it it's probably the most interesting
part of this offseason of how are team's going to
try to jimmy rig their pitching staff without giving the
max dollars for the top free agents, right.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
And when you're seeing what these prices look like, it's
almost impossible to really augment your rotation unless you have
infinity money, which you know some of these organizations do,
but a lot of these organizations claim to not and.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Have not ever spent that way.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
So unless you have a good farm system, you're gonna
have to pay for pitching, and you're gonna have to
pay a lot for it. And there are some organizations
that just will not do that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And it's like, if I was an organization that bred
a bunch of pitching Seattle, Seattle, Seattle, maybe the mirror
is ash in those chips. That's none of my business.
And yeah, I mean you're you're currently talking to two
Yankee fans that are very jealous of what the Dodgers
are doing out West because you mentioned unlimited money, and
(40:41):
it is it is crazy how much the TV deals,
as you well know and laid out, goes into that stuff.
Our guy, Trevor Pluce Twins haven't had a ton of
free agency rumors the past couple of years, and it's like, God,
what what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Like, and they're one of the first teams to say, hey,
not only is like TV impacting us, We're also going
to have to cut payroll because of that, and it
was legitimate. I think people kind of looked around because
they were the first team to do it, like is
that really a reason? And it's very much a reason,
and it's so unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
So crazy how the world spins, Katie. What else should
the people know that you have coming up?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Well, like I said, if the Sun Devils win on Saturday,
just electric content coming from Dallas. If not, I don't know,
but you know what they're I'm not entertaining a world
where ASU doesn't win that big game, so they're going
to win. No, I won't have to explain to my
editors why I'm in morning and not working.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Just kidding.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
I will work when I get there, I do. I'm
sad that you guys will not be there. I love
the Winter meetings. It's like a big It's like a
big high school reunion, but with people you actually like,
so that's cool and yeah, you'll be missed.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
The setup is always imperative. Am I using that word right? Of?
Like if if the hotel bar is in the right place,
it's baseball heaven. It's it's nirvana. I like, I think
we remember San Diego and it was like literally the
Yankees front office in one corner, the Red Sox front
office in one corner. Everyone who was tall was a
(42:12):
former player, everyone who was short as a media person,
and it was just like it sucks, no, I know.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Uh, yes, San Diego best winter meetings venue by far.
In Nashville probably the worst. So let's see where Dallas ranks.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, we'll be back. Uh need it. Uh And thank you.
Katie Wou. You're uh, you're kind of John Boy media family.
Now you kind of weaseled your way in.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
You're like, don't make me emotional during the holiday.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
You're like that neighbor that kind of just shows up
and all right, I guess they're with us now.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah. No, I came in and I've like that annoying neighbor.
And then you guys realize like, Okay, she's like she's
not that bad, Like we can tolerate this, and now
here we.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Are, it's gonna be more work to get rid of
her at this point.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Right, you just took the easy way. I get it.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
No, I knew, I knew. I knew you were in
when you know, there's either half people meet Chris Rose
and they're like, that's the oldest person I've ever talked to, Like,
get me away from him. The other half of people
meet Chris Rose and they're like Chris Rose intentional talk,
like how cool is that? And you're unfortunately one of
those people, so talk head.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, so it's a big deal for me meeting Chris Rosie.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
And Vinnie Passuino. I don't know, Uh, Katie Wu, you're
the best. Thank you so much, you guys.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
You rock. I don't know when I'll see you next,
but I will. I will have an adult.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Beverage for you at the Dallas Winter Meetings Hotel Bar.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
I'm fin a book of Flight right now. I'm not
going to do it.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
I'm not do it already like impulsively bought a TV
just by Oh, don't got him, don't bring that up.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
My living room is ruined. And and the show, uh,
we can take his production j Patrick Productions, John Boy Media,
and work House Media
Hosts And Creators
Todd "Fritzy" Fritz
Dan Patrick
Patrick "Seton" O'Connor
Paul Pabst
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