September 16, 2025 • 38 mins
DP recaps the NFL Week 2 Monday Night Football doubleheader. NY Times best-selling author Gary Myers discusses his new book "Brady vs Belichick: The Dynasty Debate," and shares why Joe Montana once felt slighted by Brady. FOX NFL/CFB rules analyst Dean Blandino doubles down on his anti-Tush Push stance and pulls back the curtain on what fans don't hear during replay reviews.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Injuries to quarterbacks happens every year. Really, it's a game
of attrition. Can you hold on? And if your quarterback
gets banged up? Who is your backup quarterback? And here
we go Joe Burrow, JJ McCarthy, maybe Jadeen Daniels all
set to miss some time and their teams are now
trying to figure out we got to keep our playoff
(00:26):
expectations here, and now you have to start to look
at your backup quarterbacks. Jake Browning is going to play
for the Bengals. I talked to somebody yesterday who's in
that circle, and they said that the Bengals probably aren't
going to kick the tires on any other quarterback. I suggested,
you know, Kirk Cousins, is that a possibility, And they
(00:47):
said no, or this person said no. And I don't
know if there's somebody else out there. I think they
have confidence in Jake Browning, is what I'm taking from that.
They didn't say that, but I'm taking that that they
feel good about j Browning. He's had some playing time,
he knows the system. Now the question is you hold
on for dear life? For three months. Carson Wentz, Come
(01:08):
on down, Carson Wentz. He used to be a thing.
His first couple of years. He was an MVP candidate.
He was probably winning the MVP until he decided to
take on a couple of Rams tacklers and blew out
his knee and was never the same. He's bounced around.
Now he's going to be in for JJ McCarthy. Jayden
Daniels were not sure justin Field's concussion protocol. We're only
(01:32):
two weeks into the season. That's why having that backup quarterback,
if you're a fan of a team, do your homework
and find out who your backup quarterback is. Because look
at the Niners, I don't think they're losing much mac
Jones being in there as opposed to brock Perty. I
don't think there's a big difference between the two. Jimmy
(01:55):
Garoppolo another backup quarterback, high end backup quarterback. You know,
you have the Falcon situation where you do have Kirk Cousins.
You know, Pennix has played pretty well, but Kirk Cousins
is there, and that's probably the best high end backup
quarterback you can have. And you're certainly spending a lot
of money on them, all right, Seaton poll question from
(02:18):
the first hour of the program.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Is, well, we've got a couple options here, oh and
two team that will make the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
We have many, many options here.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Unfortunately, this is a tradition, a time honored tradition of
the Tuesday after the Monday night games.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Week two. The two teams accurate? Okay, so the starting
the AFC. Who wants so we can categorize this a
little bit. We have Jets, Dolphins, Chiefs, Browns, Texans, Titans.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
That's a wide array of teams right there.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Anybody not picking the Chiefs in here, although Seton doesn't think.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
They're making the playoffs. Okay, I'm riding with that.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Okay, Texans, boy, that's a weird I don't know, it's
a weird feeling because it felt like we got our guy,
we got our quarterback, we got our coach, we got
some defensive players, a couple of skilled position players. Now
they got a couple of injuries there with Mixon in Dell,
(03:20):
and you're in a winnable.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Division, as they've proven. But c J.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Stroud last night did not look Crisp did not He
looked choppy, little choppy.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
He looked choppy. That's a game you gotta win.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And but give credit to Tampa Bay because their offensive
line was decimated. Baker Mayfield played great. And what he
does that I love seeing is he's not a guy
where there's pressure and he starts to roll out right,
he steps up in the pocket. He's not a big guy,
not a tall guy, but he steps up. He climbs
(03:55):
up into the pocket and he is very decisive. He's
not athletic, but he's decisive. And I love that element
about my quarterback. I don't want you going. He's like, okay, no,
no boom, and he was third option with the first
touchdown pass that was highlighted. Troy Aikman mentioned that it
(04:18):
was like boom, boom, boom, and you've got to be
decisive back there. So the Texans watching them, that's a
game you have to win. You're at home, you got
to win that game. So I would say I still
have my money on the Chiefs Texans in the on
deck circle.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
With that, it kind of feels like, yeah, after the
Chiefs and maybe the Texans, it kind of really drops
off that list, though I have a hard time seeing
any of those teams make the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Baker Mayfield, with the touchdown pass fifty nine seconds to go,
the first Bucks quarterback to open a season with game
winning drives in consecutive games since nineteen eighty Doug Williams.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Shampa Bay opened up two.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And oh and that's the fifth consecutive year they've started
out too.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
And oh, what other pole questions do you have?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
There?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
See no counter?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Well, we've got to finish this one because we haven't
even gotten to the NFC yet.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
Oh okay, less options there though.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Okay, your NFC options for zero and two team that
will make the playoffs Giants, Bears, Panthers, Saints.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
So I have to pick one, I guess. Okay, so
you have to.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Are we gonna split it with the a FC team
and the NFC team just to incorporate a couple extra
teams in there and make it interesting, because really, nobody
on that list. You're not taking anybody on that list.
It feels is it over in Chicago? You know already
after two weeks of course, it just feels like everybody
kind of came out of nowhere and it's like this
(06:05):
is over. Then you know this is a bad marriage
between quarterback and coach. All right, hold on to those
thoughts for the next fifteen games. We'll see Caleb Williams
I didn't think was the problem. Caleb Williams I thought
looked okay in that game. The defense didn't look good
at all. That's where i'd start. Ben Johnson is an
(06:27):
offensive coordinator who's now a head coach. I'm going to
expect Caleb Williams to improve what you need.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
And this is the hard part.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
When you were athletic in college and now you're being asked,
don't be as athletic, step up in the pocket, play
more like Jared Goff does, and I.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Can coach you.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
But if you continue to try to scramble out of
the trouble, then it's not going to work. It doesn't
work for any quarterback if that's the case, because unless
you're Tomorrow or Josh Allen, and there aren't any other
ones like that, you can't escape now. Joe Burrow's athletic.
Joe Burrow's down for the next three months. Jaden Daniels athletic.
(07:12):
Is anybody he might not be able to play this
next week with his knee injury.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Step up in the pocket.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Trust your team and be able to throw, be able
to throw and be decisive. Those are the would be
the advice that I would be giving my young quarterback.
And I'm sure Ben Johnson is saying that, Caleb, this
is in USC. You're not going to escape the pressure.
And the more you run around, the more likely it
(07:39):
is you either get sacked or you throw in an interception.
Let's live to call another play here. But I still
expect the Bears to be dangerous. Well, they might be dangerous.
I'm not ready to move on to next year because
Paul is like, you know, head down a little bit,
and I said, hey, come on, come on, little buckeroo,
keep your head up.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
Well I'm not jumping off cliffs and saying Ben Johnson
will be a failure like something.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, well it's a hot take, piping hot. What else
do you have, Seaton?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Let's see all right, Yes, so we had Giants, Bears, Panthers, Saints.
Now the flip side of that pole question, as we
always do, the two and oh team that won't make
the playoffs. They're currently two and oh, but they won't
make the playoffs. This is NFC heavy, AFC light, So
you have to be at least two and oh correct
to qualify for this pole question.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Yes, how about we save this one. See, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Save this one. I want to save the Tom Brady
in the coaching booth last night. Oh brother, they didn't
even try to hide the fact they're showcasing Tom last night.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
He's there with Chip Kelly headset on. Oh boy, Yes, Paul.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
I'm could have put a Raiders hat on and a
Raiders hoodie. He's we were in a certain tie and
it looks like a superstar.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Yeah, he probably had makeup on.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You know, he's just sitting there looking great and he's
got his headset on next to.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
Four dudes who are wearing the same exact thing headsets, hat, hoodie.
Speaker 7 (09:13):
We'll get to that coming up as well. Yes, I
have a pull off last night's winners. Which team feels
more super bowlish? The Chargers or the Buccaneers.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Buccaneers Buccaneers their division.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
They've won the division even with a banged up offensive line.
Godwin's not back yet, and they win that game on
the road.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I would say them now.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I expected the Chargers to win last night against the Raiders,
and I was surprised that the Raiders did not put
up a good fight, and Gino threw three interceptions. Ashton
Genty is getting used to NFL speed, by the way,
Like I'm watching and I'm going, you know, at Boise
State they might have broken a couple of those tackles,
but all of a sudden, those defensive linemen are are
(10:00):
those edge rushers. They can catch you, and so can
the defensive backs and the linebackers as well. And I'm going,
oh boy, you're watching somebody in real time understand NFL
speed versus college speed. Now, do I still think he'll
be a very good running back?
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Yes, I do. I do.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
But this is where, hey, there was a hole here,
like a second ago. Where did it go? That's the NFL.
When you throw a pass, man, you were oh wait,
he's not opening. That's the NFL. College It's like, man,
there's a hole here. Dude, you're throwing a pass to
a wide receiver. He's wide, wide, wide open. That's the difference, Yes, Marvin.
Speaker 8 (10:42):
Yeah, in the NFL. NFL receivers they're wide open. Is
I have a step on this guy? Yeah, College, I
have eight steps on him. It's a whole different ballgame.
Asking that you's learning the hard.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Way, you have to throw somebody open. In the NFL.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
In college, you rarely have to do that. It's there's
a window here, here's a small it just closed. It's
that quick. That's why you got to be decisive. When
you see these quarterbacks and when you go through your progressions,
your progressions are split second. It's like snapshot, no snapshot,
no boom Miller in the corner of the end.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Like it's that quick.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
But that's the amazing part of those who do it
slow the game down. I don't know how they do it,
but in every sport, the great ones will tell you,
including the great one himself. He said the game slowed.
He saw the game differently. Montana talked about how he
saw the game differently. But it takes a while to
(11:45):
understand what am I looking at. I think we've all
gone to an art exhibit and we go, I don't know,
and then somebody else comes in and.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Go that Rothko.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I mean, that's fifty million dollars, and I go, I
could have painted that. That's what it is to be
a quarterback in the NFL. It's like there's something there.
There is yes being able to find it. How quickly
you find it. That's what your success and failure kind
of hinges on.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Hey, it's me Rob Parker.
Speaker 9 (12:26):
Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the Parker, for
twenty two minutes of pipeing hop baseball talk, featuring the
biggest names of newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe
in analytics or the I tast We've got all the
bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday, So do yourself
a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob
(12:48):
Parker on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Gary Myers New York Times best selling author. He wrote
Brady Versus Manning, The Untold Story of the Rival, Read
The trans Formed the NFL, and his new book released today,
Brady Versus Belichick, The Dynasty Debate, and he's been covering
the NFL for over forty years. Gary, good to see
you again. Let me start with Tom Brady in the
booth last night. You, as a long time journalist, scribe
(13:17):
any problems conflict of interest with Brady in the coach's
booth last night.
Speaker 10 (13:22):
Oh, how can we think it's a conflict of interest
because he's working on a network that covers the Raiders,
the Bears, the Cowboys, whatever, and then he's sitting in
the booth. This is just a horrible, horrible look for
the NFL, and they need to do something about it.
I mean, they approved him as an owner knowing he
was working for Fox, so and they scaled back to
(13:44):
the restrictions this year. But Tom should have known better
then to be so public last night, to be sitting
in the booth with us the headphones on, he's talking
to Chip Kelly two three times a week. You know, okay, fine,
but to be on national TV look like you're calling
in plays, even though I'm sure he wasn't. What a
(14:04):
horrible conflict of interest, and it's just such a bad
look for the NFL.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
But you know, knowing Brady doing Brady versus Manning, Brady
versus Belichick, Tom's extremely competitive. Tom's not there for a ceremonial.
I own part of the team. Tom would love nothing
better than to be on that podium hosting a Lombardi
Trophy as an owner.
Speaker 10 (14:28):
There's no question, And just think of this, And I
know you've already discussed this, But so Tom's got the
Bears and the Cowboys this week, and then in two
weeks the Raiders are playing the Bears. So you don't
think the information he gathers covering the Bears. And I
know they don't let him in the facility anymore, or
they'll let him in the facility still, but he's taking
part in the production meanings virtually, so he's able to
(14:51):
ask questions. And you know he's a smart guy. He's
asking good questions. Now, you hope the coaches and the
players are smart enough not to give him anything to inside.
But if anybody doesn't think he's running back to Pete,
Carol and Chip Kelly or who are else and telling
him what he found out. I mean, he's an honorable
guy and I like him a lot, but we can't
(15:11):
give him too much credit here for keeping things to himself.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
The book is Brady versus Belichick, the dynasty debate. What
led you to your conclusion of who has or who
was more important in that dynasty?
Speaker 10 (15:26):
Well, I think, first of all, I don't take into
consideration anything that happened after Brady left, So I don't
count the Tampa Super Bowl and Belichick struggling. I don't
count Belichick struggling before Brady took over in New England
because to me, it's irrelevant. The important part of this
debate is who gets the credit for what they accomplished together.
(15:48):
And I give a lot of credit to Belichick one
for drafting Brady even though it's only the sixth round.
If he knew he's gonna be great, Danny would have
taken him in the first round. But that first, you know,
until Brady's last drive on the winning field goal. That
season and that Super Bowl was all Belichick, both with
defense and running the ball. And then as you know
(16:10):
they're going they beat the Panthers in a really high
scoring game. I think that was like a fifty to fifty.
And then they beat the Eagles and that was more
of a defensive game. It wasn't really high scoring. So
I think the early part of the dynasty was really Belichick.
And I think the turning point of it was in
the seventh season when Tom throws fifty touchdowns, they go
(16:30):
sixteen to zero, come within some Velcrow and David Tyree's
helmets from winning that Super Bowl and being remembered as
the greatest singles team, greatest single season team in NFL history.
I think that's when we realized, you know, not only
is Brady better than Peyton Manning, but he's closing it
on Joe Montana. At that point, I still wouldn't have
(16:51):
said he was better than Joe when he won the
fourth Super Bowl and they were ten years apart between
the third and fourth. That's when I think the second
half of the dynasty I think was almost entirely Brady,
but because Belichick was so influential in the first half,
it doesn't even it out, but it makes the gap
a little less.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
But people players will have told me they wanted to
play with Brady. They didn't want to go play for Belichick,
but they wanted to play with Brady because Brady was
going to take him to the playoffs. You get extra
paychecks and you may win a Super Bowl. I three
players who played for them said that they went there
because Tom was the quarterback there.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Much that tips the scales here, but they were going
because they knew they had the best quarterback in the game.
Speaker 10 (17:37):
Well, I think that obviously had a lot to do
with it, but one of the players told me that
the reason that they put up with all of Belichick's
nonsense is because he knew They knew he knew how
to win. Yeah, and he's winning super Bowls and ultimately
that's all players really care about in the end. Well,
two things they care about, getting paid and winning super Bowls.
(17:59):
And if you wish super bowls, you get to get paid,
not necessarily by the Patriots, but become more attractive as
a free agent because you know, the super Bowl champions
always get picked apart in free agency. So Belichick was
good for their bank accounts, even though if they didn't
necessarily like to play for him.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You also look at the relationship between Brady and Joe
Montana and I didn't know that it was fractured or
I'll put it, let you put it into your words
of where is that or where was that relationship? Because
I think you allude to it. It's better now, but
there was a time when it wasn't good.
Speaker 10 (18:36):
Yeah, I mean what happened. You know, Joe still lives
in the Bay Area. Tom is from San Mateo, which
isn't far from where Joe lives. Joe and then Steve Young,
with Tom's heroes. Growing up. They had a mutual friend
who worked for the Golden State Warriors who called Montana
after Tom won his first Super Bowl and said, hey,
you know, Tom loves you. Can you have lunch with him?
(18:59):
So they had lunch at house and Joe thought this
would be a nice situation. He wasn't looking to be
Tom's mentor, but he thought it was gonna be a
nice relationship where, you know, he knew that Tom looked
up to him. Well. Joe told me that in the
succeeding year is the only time he heard from Brady
was when Tom broke one of Joe's records. He said, ah,
(19:19):
got another one of your records, And Joe said he
could have dealt with that if at the same time,
Tom was texting him every now and then say Hey Joe,
how you doing, I'm gonna be in town, let's get together,
that kind of stuff. But that didn't happen. And Joe,
I don't know how well you know Joe Dan, but
he's a great guy. He's really humble. For all those accomplishments,
(19:41):
he's really a humble guy. He never cared about stats.
He just cared about winning and was curious why Brady
was so hung up on breaking his records. They I
think they smoothed things out a little bit at some
of these you know, one hundred year anniversary oberations that
the NFL had, and when they had all the MVPs together,
(20:05):
they talked a little bit. But you know, I think
Joe's the kind of guy who does hold somewhat of
a grudge, and I don't think I'll ever forget that
he felt well disrespected by Tom, which which really surprised
me because I don't look at Tom as that kind
of guy. But you know, everybody has their own experience
with them, and that's what was Joe's experience.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Gary Myers, New York Times best selling author the book
released today, Brady Versus Belichick, The Dynasty Debate. I interviewed
Tom before the Super Bowl against the Eagles, and at
one point I said, do you think you and Belichick
will ever sit down and kind of open up the
scrap book and you know, walk down memory lane. He goes, no,
(20:48):
because that's that's not our relationship, right. Why it's Bill.
Bill's not capable of having that. You know, let's have
more than a coach player relationship.
Speaker 10 (21:03):
I think that he's capable of having it when the
player is no longer playing from him and retires, because
he has a really good relationship with guys like Carl
Banks and Lawrence Taylor and Phil Simms. It wasn't that now.
He was never coached Simms directly. But he doesn't allow
himself to get close to players because he knows, for
(21:26):
the most part, unless the guy retires on his own,
it's going to end poorly. So he doesn't want to
develop that real close personal relationship. Now. I think his
relationship with Brady is better today than it ever has been,
even during his playing career, over the five years or
so that they were separated. But I think today they've
(21:47):
come to appreciate what they meant to each other. But
I know when they did to Brady manning book. I
said to Tom it was kind of the same question
you asked him. I said, you're sitting there on Tuesday
night at ten o'clock, you're going over the game plan,
which they did every Tuesday night. I said, they ever say, hey,
we've been great for each other. At that point they
had won three Super Bowls. You know, do you ever reminisce, well,
(22:07):
you know, this is amazing. What we're doing and is
not over yet. Would you ever say, hey, there's not
much to do in Foxborough, but I know a good
place up the road and get a pizza and share
a picture of Beard. Do you ever do? That? Never
came up in conversation. And now I don't know what's
happened in the last couple of years since they're both
away from New England. But I know from the time
(22:28):
while Brady was still in New England and Tom was
in Tampa and then left Tampa, that that never occurred.
And I think Tom's father is much more outspoken than
Tom is himself about what the relationship is and how
he felt, you know, his son was disrespected all those
years in New England by Belichick.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Yeah, it's just a weird dynamic.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But I always whenever anybody asked me about it, I
always sided with Brady because he had to go out
and do it. And Bill was a defensive minded head coach,
So how much he was involved in the offense, I
mean that was Tom and he did you know, he
did have you know, offensive coordinators there to help him.
But I still lean towards Tom. That Bill can tell you,
(23:10):
or his assistants can tell you, Tom had to go
out and do it, and whether anybody's keeping score it.
It's not like Lebron and Jordan, But I think there
is still the who is more important the coach or
the star player in any sport.
Speaker 10 (23:25):
No, I agree with you. But as far as the
offensive input that Belichick had, remember in two thousand and one,
Dick Raybne, who is a Patriots quarterback coach, and he
was the one who was most responsible for Belichick drafting Brady.
He wanted to take him in the third or fourth round. Well,
Dick Raybne passed away right at the beginning of training
camp in oh one, and Belichick did not hire another
(23:47):
quarterback coach. Charlie Weiss was your offensive coordinator, but Rayvine
is the one who worked most closely with Brady. Belichick
became the de facto quarterback coach. He sat in on
a lot of meetings with Brady and Weiss. He had
a lot of meetings by himself with Brady, and what
he would do would give Brady the perspective of the
(24:07):
defensive coach and how to attack a defense. He was
really instrumental in Brady's development as a quarterback. Because of
Belichick's knowledge about defense, and Belichick did become like Parcels
before him. They did become good offensive coaches. Now, they
were still known as being brilliant defensive coaches, but they
(24:28):
became all around coaches. So I think that Belichick's influence
on Brady early on was much greater than anybody remembers.
And I point that out in the book.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, before I let you go. Yeah,
do you think North Carolina is Belichick's last stop?
Speaker 10 (24:46):
Yes? I don't think he'll get hired in the NFL again.
I was surprised he didn't get hired in the first
hiring cycle after he was fired in New England. We
know it came close in Atlanta and Weathercraft put the
kabash on that. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
How would he have done that, Gary, Well.
Speaker 10 (25:02):
He would. He would have called Arthur Blank and said,
you don't want you don't want this. I mean, this
is what he's going to do to your organization. Dan,
That's what owners were calling Craft about him two thousand
for your own mental health. Don't hire this guy, right,
And I wouldn't be like, listen, did Craft do that
with Blank? That's what a lot of people are saying
(25:23):
I don't know that personally now. The second time, Belichick
wanted into the NFL so badly that he called the
intermediary with the Jets who had an influence on the
hiring process, and he called him and said, I'm interested
in the Jets job. You think she'd rather be a
sanitation worker and I'm not putting the sanitation workers down,
(25:45):
but we'll go working as a cook in a kitchen
before you ever want to go to the Jets, considering
the history, but he said I want that job. And
after the guy finished laughing, he said, they're not going
to hire you. There's nobody who's gonna hire Belichick. Now,
the twenty four year old girlfriend that I think has
something to do, no owner wants a part of that,
and have him explain that I think Caroline is his
(26:07):
last job. Whether he's going to be successful there or
not is just a question of whether he can master
the nil and the transfer portal and get himself a quarterback.
You can't win without a quarterback at any level.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
He needs to Tom Brady.
Speaker 10 (26:20):
He does, and maybe he can find somebody in the
transfer portal and see something in him that nobody sees
because he obviously saw a little something in Brady that
he just invested a six round picking him. But I
want to before we say he's a genius for taking him,
just remember he took six other players in that draft
before he drafted Brady, including a defensive back there nobody
(26:42):
has ever heard of since in the sixth round before
he took Brady. So if he knew he was going
to be anything to what he turned, if he even
thought he was going to be a starter in the league,
he would have taken him before the sixth round.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
Good luck with the book. Gary, Good to connect with
you again.
Speaker 10 (26:56):
Yeah, Dan, thanks for having me on. It's great to
see it.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
Gary Meyers, New York Time. He's best selling author.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
He wrote Brady Versus Manning and the new book is
Brady Versus Belichick The Dynasty Debate.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Keen Blandino, Fox Sports, NFL college football rules analyst, former
NFL VP of Officiating watching the game.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Next thing I know. Dean Blandino's says he's done.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
With the toush push. Can't officiate. I go, Dean, your
microphone is on. What was what was the reaction? Why
did you have that reaction in the moment?
Speaker 11 (27:40):
That was a visceral reaction.
Speaker 12 (27:42):
Look, we had the game obviously Chiefs Eagles, big Super
Bowl rematch, and you know, we had a couple of
the Eagles. Look the play, they run it better than
anyone else, and they work at it and it's impressive
what they do. But just that game, we had a
couple two two goal to goal plays. Third down looks
(28:05):
like Hertz is in, they rule them short. It's really
tough to review. Can't see the football all these bodies.
Next play fourth and goal, they will touchdown. You've got
both guards moving early. Should have been a false start.
Then later in the game another big first down conversion
and you've got the guard moving early. So it just
got to the point for me where i've I've never
I've been on record, I don't love the play. It
(28:27):
was illegal to push runners forever, you know, since the
inception of the league until two thousand and five. We
took it out, and then hindsight, I think that was
a mistake and now we're we're stuck with this play
that that is a really.
Speaker 11 (28:40):
Difficult play to officiate.
Speaker 12 (28:42):
It just is, and personally it's not a I just
don't think it's a great play to watch.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
But you can officiate this by calling the guards, you know,
off side. Why don't we start with that.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
No question?
Speaker 11 (28:55):
Look, look those are those should have been called.
Speaker 12 (28:57):
That's not that I'm not condoning and making an excuse
for that.
Speaker 11 (29:02):
Was that should have been called.
Speaker 12 (29:03):
But I think once you take that out of the mix,
it's just with all those bodies and trying to get
the spot and we're trying to be perfect on these
spots and now we have virtual measurements.
Speaker 11 (29:12):
It's just a tough play.
Speaker 12 (29:13):
My thing is, it's just not a it's not when
you think about the rules, it's just not a fair play.
The defense can't push the runner back and gain an advantage.
There's always forward progress, but we let the offense do it.
And look, I was watching the highlights of the Cowboys
Giants game in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 11 (29:30):
That's everything the NFL is. You've got, you know, Russ.
Speaker 12 (29:33):
Wilson is to elite neighbors and Dak leading and then
in the history of the tush push not once.
Speaker 11 (29:39):
Have I ever seen it on Sports Center's Top ten Plays?
I just haven't.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's just I don't know how these officials spot the
ball in that scrum.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
I really don't.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Now you have the overhead shot, but those the officials,
they can't rely on that overhead camera shot.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Can they just spot the ball.
Speaker 11 (29:57):
After the fact in review? Yes, but you've we got
two officials.
Speaker 12 (30:01):
That are down the line looking at it, and they're
they're gonna come in as the play, you know, as
the as the pile kind of starts, and try to
get a look at the football and quite frankly, look
at the goal line mechanically. And this has been the
deal forever. If they don't see the football, they're not
going to rule on it. They're going to go in
dig in the pile, and if the ball is over
(30:22):
the goal line at that point, that's a touchdown. And
so that ball may have been short, but eventually it
worked its way after the runner was on the ground
over the goal line.
Speaker 11 (30:31):
So again, it's a tough play.
Speaker 12 (30:32):
That's been look short yardage plays are tough sneaks, those
types of things, But I think this play just kind
of adds another layer to it.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
But Dean.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I am shocked that the officials didn't convey this to
the owners to say we're having a hard time officiating this.
This is no bias against anybody. This is we're trying
to do our job and we can't do our job
given the context of this play. I don't know if
that's enough of an out for the NFL and these
owners this next go around. It's not a pretty play.
(31:03):
We know that if I can't spot the ball and
do my job, then that factors in something else. They
keep trying to say health. There's no data yet of
injuries there. You can't say, hey, somebody's gonna get hurt,
which they probably will. But you got to say, hey, guys, esthetically,
it's not pleasing and we can't do our job.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Is that enough to have them get rid of this play?
Speaker 12 (31:26):
It should be when you think about like I said,
it's not we think offense, defensive balance.
Speaker 11 (31:31):
It's not a fair play when you.
Speaker 12 (31:33):
Do have the difficulty in officiating, and that's when you
look at rules changes, you look at player safety, you
look at competitive equity, and you look at officiating consistency.
And if you can't consistently officiate this, it's a problem.
I think everybody, look, they were two votes short of
getting it out.
Speaker 11 (31:49):
I think everybody had Each club had its own reasons.
Speaker 12 (31:52):
I do believe because the Eagles won the Super Bowl,
there were some teams that didn't want to come across
is we can't stop this play.
Speaker 11 (32:01):
We're going to take the easy route and we're going
to vote it out.
Speaker 12 (32:04):
I think if they don't win the Super Bowl and
we still have issues with this play, there's probably a
better chance that it goes away.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Talking to Dean Blandino, he used to be the head
of officials for the NFL. He doesn't need that headache anymore.
Fox Sports, NFL college football rules analysts. Even the neutral
zone like there, it seems like there's there's an infraction
on every one of these toush pushes. And I don't
the Eagles would still be successful. They they would with
(32:32):
with Jalen Hurts. You don't need somebody pushing from behind.
You can still call it a quarterback sneak. I just
can't have somebody pushing from behind. That just seems you
want to think about an injury. You could have an
injury with your quarterback being pushed from behind. Jam and
Is you know head in there, but uh, no question and.
Speaker 11 (32:53):
Look and I agree with you.
Speaker 12 (32:55):
And I was talking to somebody yesterday at one of
the clubs, and I think the Eagles would be successful
on QB sneaks. QB sneaks were you know, that's a
high percentage play when it's third and one, fourth and one,
So they would be successful. And that's why I don't
think this needs It was illegal forever. I don't know
why we need to keep this push. We don't let
(33:15):
the defense do it. Why are we letting the offense
do it?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Pointy of emphasis with taunting this year. How did this
come about?
Speaker 12 (33:23):
I think the league the data that they presented in
the off season, and how they quantify this, I don't know.
But they said, okay, they said they said tawning was
up like fifty percent. Violent gestures, sexually suggestive, those types
of things that are in bad taste were up over
I mean it was like one hundred and thirty percent
whatever the number was. So they've obviously looked at film
(33:45):
and they felt, okay, identified these actions and they want
to emphasize it because it it does look sportsmanship is important,
it's something you know it. Trey has that trickle down effect.
Kids are watching those types of things, and you saw it.
I mean there was a big play in that in
that Dallas Giants game where where you had three fouls
on the Giants, three fouls and CD Lamb gets up
(34:07):
and gets a taunt and it all offset. So it's
a big penalty. And this is going to be a
major deal. You know, as long as this emphasis is in.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
Place and protecting quarterbacks, is anything changed.
Speaker 12 (34:20):
Nothing's changed. I think we've gone again player safety. Health
and safety is the top priority. I think we've gone
a little too far with some of these hits. I
think the quarterback position. Obviously, it's you're in a defenseless
posture when you're in that passing posture and you and
your focus is downfield. So yeah, the the headneck area,
(34:41):
those types of things, the late hits, I do think
we've you know, we see some of these hits where
it's just a defensive player, especially a big defensive lineman,
fighting through blocks and making a tackle.
Speaker 11 (34:52):
And just happens to land the wrong way and it's
fifteen yards. I think that's tough.
Speaker 12 (34:57):
But that's not going away that you list did all
these injuries that we have in this league, right, we
need the Joe Burrows, we need the Jaden Daniels and
and so they're going to protect that position.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
What about listening in on replay? We've seen this with
the ACC I've been saying for years, I think with gambling,
with total transparency, and I don't know if that's enough
that the NFL or the officials are going to say, yeah,
come on in, listen.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
But boy'd be entertaining.
Speaker 12 (35:24):
What do you think would definitely be entertaining, because I've
been involved in a lot of discussions where if that
went out publicly, people, we definitely definitely, you know, get
a chuckle out of it.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Look, I think can you give me it? For instance,
though without names.
Speaker 11 (35:39):
No, I'll I'll look. I was involved in a very
controversial play.
Speaker 12 (35:44):
You might have heard of it, the des Bryant play,
you know, Packers Cowboys.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Should have been a touchdown by the way.
Speaker 11 (35:50):
Yeah, there you go. So the play happens that we
see it happen.
Speaker 12 (35:55):
I'm watching, you know, Mike mccartheugh's coaching the Packers at
the time, and in my head, I'm going he's going
to throw the challenge flag.
Speaker 11 (36:01):
He's going to throw the challenge back.
Speaker 12 (36:03):
And as soon as it came out, I said to
the room, get ready the s h I T is
about to hit the fan, because I knew it was
going to be controversial either way. Right, So, so those conversations,
I think it's it's it's two sets. I think transparency
is so important, like you said, because if you can
just listen in, it eliminates.
Speaker 11 (36:21):
Any of the conspiracy.
Speaker 12 (36:22):
Right now, it might it might be like, wow, those
guys don't know what they're doing. You know, it might
go from conspiracy to competence. Love that, but but it
definitely would eliminate some of that, some of that, hey,
what what are they doing?
Speaker 11 (36:37):
We we just don't get it.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
If you had it, I'll give you a do over
with des Bryant.
Speaker 11 (36:43):
Under the current rule. Now, that was the that was
the rule. That was an easy one. Today today it's
a catch, and I get it. I understand why people
would have thought that that was a catch.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
It was a layup, dann come on, stupid rule.
Speaker 11 (36:59):
Right, Well, it was a I think the catch rule.
Speaker 12 (37:03):
I think the problem we ran into is that forever
before replay, the catch rule was written so the onfield
officials could make that call in real time, right, they can't.
Speaker 11 (37:12):
Slow it up. They can't.
Speaker 12 (37:13):
So that was the rule and that's why, you know,
hold on to it when you hit the ground was
a thing. But now we have replay. It changes how
we can look at these things.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Are officials allowed to be out of shape?
Speaker 11 (37:25):
There shouldn't be. That's that's I.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Mean, it feels like there's a workout program here that
like the ED Hockey League appropra.
Speaker 11 (37:33):
Definitely it has been and I think we just know more.
Speaker 12 (37:36):
Look when I first started at the league office, and
I don't know if I've ever told you this, but
ninety five my first officiating clinic, the physical test that
they had to pass to be an official at that
clinic was walk.
Speaker 11 (37:51):
A mile, not even times, just not die. And now
it's much much more stringent.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
So you combine for officials.
Speaker 11 (38:01):
They do, they do.
Speaker 12 (38:03):
They have a they have a group that comes in
and and you know, strength and and conditioning and works
with them and and uh and you know, and Ed.
I think Ed might actually do like his own combine
where it's just it's just arms, you know, it's just
just arm day every day.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
It was great to talk to you. Thank you all right,
that's Dean Blandino, Fox Sports, NFL college football rules analyst,
former VP of Officiating,
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Injuries to quarterbacks happens every year. Really, it's a game
of attrition. Can you hold on? And if your quarterback
gets banged up? Who is your backup quarterback? And here
we go Joe Burrow, JJ McCarthy, maybe Jadeen Daniels all
set to miss some time and their teams are now
trying to figure out we got to keep our playoff
(00:26):
expectations here, and now you have to start to look
at your backup quarterbacks. Jake Browning is going to play
for the Bengals. I talked to somebody yesterday who's in
that circle, and they said that the Bengals probably aren't
going to kick the tires on any other quarterback. I suggested,
you know, Kirk Cousins, is that a possibility, And they
(00:47):
said no, or this person said no. And I don't
know if there's somebody else out there. I think they
have confidence in Jake Browning, is what I'm taking from that.
They didn't say that, but I'm taking that that they
feel good about j Browning. He's had some playing time,
he knows the system. Now the question is you hold
on for dear life? For three months. Carson Wentz, Come
(01:08):
on down, Carson Wentz. He used to be a thing.
His first couple of years. He was an MVP candidate.
He was probably winning the MVP until he decided to
take on a couple of Rams tacklers and blew out
his knee and was never the same. He's bounced around.
Now he's going to be in for JJ McCarthy. Jayden
Daniels were not sure justin Field's concussion protocol. We're only
(01:32):
two weeks into the season. That's why having that backup quarterback,
if you're a fan of a team, do your homework
and find out who your backup quarterback is. Because look
at the Niners, I don't think they're losing much mac
Jones being in there as opposed to brock Perty. I
don't think there's a big difference between the two. Jimmy
(01:55):
Garoppolo another backup quarterback, high end backup quarterback. You know,
you have the Falcon situation where you do have Kirk Cousins.
You know, Pennix has played pretty well, but Kirk Cousins
is there, and that's probably the best high end backup
quarterback you can have. And you're certainly spending a lot
of money on them, all right, Seaton poll question from
(02:18):
the first hour of the program.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Is, well, we've got a couple options here, oh and
two team that will make the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
We have many, many options here.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Unfortunately, this is a tradition, a time honored tradition of
the Tuesday after the Monday night games.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Week two. The two teams accurate? Okay, so the starting
the AFC. Who wants so we can categorize this a
little bit. We have Jets, Dolphins, Chiefs, Browns, Texans, Titans.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
That's a wide array of teams right there.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Anybody not picking the Chiefs in here, although Seton doesn't think.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
They're making the playoffs. Okay, I'm riding with that.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Okay, Texans, boy, that's a weird I don't know, it's
a weird feeling because it felt like we got our guy,
we got our quarterback, we got our coach, we got
some defensive players, a couple of skilled position players. Now
they got a couple of injuries there with Mixon in Dell,
(03:20):
and you're in a winnable.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Division, as they've proven. But c J.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Stroud last night did not look Crisp did not He
looked choppy, little choppy.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
He looked choppy. That's a game you gotta win.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And but give credit to Tampa Bay because their offensive
line was decimated. Baker Mayfield played great. And what he
does that I love seeing is he's not a guy
where there's pressure and he starts to roll out right,
he steps up in the pocket. He's not a big guy,
not a tall guy, but he steps up. He climbs
(03:55):
up into the pocket and he is very decisive. He's
not athletic, but he's decisive. And I love that element
about my quarterback. I don't want you going. He's like, okay, no,
no boom, and he was third option with the first
touchdown pass that was highlighted. Troy Aikman mentioned that it
(04:18):
was like boom, boom, boom, and you've got to be
decisive back there. So the Texans watching them, that's a
game you have to win. You're at home, you got
to win that game. So I would say I still
have my money on the Chiefs Texans in the on
deck circle.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
With that, it kind of feels like, yeah, after the
Chiefs and maybe the Texans, it kind of really drops
off that list, though I have a hard time seeing
any of those teams make the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Baker Mayfield, with the touchdown pass fifty nine seconds to go,
the first Bucks quarterback to open a season with game
winning drives in consecutive games since nineteen eighty Doug Williams.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Shampa Bay opened up two.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And oh and that's the fifth consecutive year they've started
out too.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
And oh, what other pole questions do you have?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
There?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
See no counter?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Well, we've got to finish this one because we haven't
even gotten to the NFC yet.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
Oh okay, less options there though.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Okay, your NFC options for zero and two team that
will make the playoffs Giants, Bears, Panthers, Saints.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
So I have to pick one, I guess. Okay, so
you have to.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Are we gonna split it with the a FC team
and the NFC team just to incorporate a couple extra
teams in there and make it interesting, because really, nobody
on that list. You're not taking anybody on that list.
It feels is it over in Chicago? You know already
after two weeks of course, it just feels like everybody
kind of came out of nowhere and it's like this
(06:05):
is over. Then you know this is a bad marriage
between quarterback and coach. All right, hold on to those
thoughts for the next fifteen games. We'll see Caleb Williams
I didn't think was the problem. Caleb Williams I thought
looked okay in that game. The defense didn't look good
at all. That's where i'd start. Ben Johnson is an
(06:27):
offensive coordinator who's now a head coach. I'm going to
expect Caleb Williams to improve what you need.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
And this is the hard part.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
When you were athletic in college and now you're being asked,
don't be as athletic, step up in the pocket, play
more like Jared Goff does, and I.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Can coach you.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
But if you continue to try to scramble out of
the trouble, then it's not going to work. It doesn't
work for any quarterback if that's the case, because unless
you're Tomorrow or Josh Allen, and there aren't any other
ones like that, you can't escape now. Joe Burrow's athletic.
Joe Burrow's down for the next three months. Jaden Daniels athletic.
(07:12):
Is anybody he might not be able to play this
next week with his knee injury.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Step up in the pocket.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Trust your team and be able to throw, be able
to throw and be decisive. Those are the would be
the advice that I would be giving my young quarterback.
And I'm sure Ben Johnson is saying that, Caleb, this
is in USC. You're not going to escape the pressure.
And the more you run around, the more likely it
(07:39):
is you either get sacked or you throw in an interception.
Let's live to call another play here. But I still
expect the Bears to be dangerous. Well, they might be dangerous.
I'm not ready to move on to next year because
Paul is like, you know, head down a little bit,
and I said, hey, come on, come on, little buckeroo,
keep your head up.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
Well I'm not jumping off cliffs and saying Ben Johnson
will be a failure like something.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, well it's a hot take, piping hot. What else
do you have, Seaton?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Let's see all right, Yes, so we had Giants, Bears, Panthers, Saints.
Now the flip side of that pole question, as we
always do, the two and oh team that won't make
the playoffs. They're currently two and oh, but they won't
make the playoffs. This is NFC heavy, AFC light, So
you have to be at least two and oh correct
to qualify for this pole question.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Yes, how about we save this one. See, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Save this one. I want to save the Tom Brady
in the coaching booth last night. Oh brother, they didn't
even try to hide the fact they're showcasing Tom last night.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
He's there with Chip Kelly headset on. Oh boy, Yes, Paul.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
I'm could have put a Raiders hat on and a
Raiders hoodie. He's we were in a certain tie and
it looks like a superstar.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Yeah, he probably had makeup on.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You know, he's just sitting there looking great and he's
got his headset on next to.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
Four dudes who are wearing the same exact thing headsets, hat, hoodie.
Speaker 7 (09:13):
We'll get to that coming up as well. Yes, I
have a pull off last night's winners. Which team feels
more super bowlish? The Chargers or the Buccaneers.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Buccaneers Buccaneers their division.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
They've won the division even with a banged up offensive line.
Godwin's not back yet, and they win that game on
the road.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I would say them now.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I expected the Chargers to win last night against the Raiders,
and I was surprised that the Raiders did not put
up a good fight, and Gino threw three interceptions. Ashton
Genty is getting used to NFL speed, by the way,
Like I'm watching and I'm going, you know, at Boise
State they might have broken a couple of those tackles,
but all of a sudden, those defensive linemen are are
(10:00):
those edge rushers. They can catch you, and so can
the defensive backs and the linebackers as well. And I'm going,
oh boy, you're watching somebody in real time understand NFL
speed versus college speed. Now, do I still think he'll
be a very good running back?
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Yes, I do. I do.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
But this is where, hey, there was a hole here,
like a second ago. Where did it go? That's the NFL.
When you throw a pass, man, you were oh wait,
he's not opening. That's the NFL. College It's like, man,
there's a hole here. Dude, you're throwing a pass to
a wide receiver. He's wide, wide, wide open. That's the difference, Yes, Marvin.
Speaker 8 (10:42):
Yeah, in the NFL. NFL receivers they're wide open. Is
I have a step on this guy? Yeah, College, I
have eight steps on him. It's a whole different ballgame.
Asking that you's learning the hard.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Way, you have to throw somebody open. In the NFL.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
In college, you rarely have to do that. It's there's
a window here, here's a small it just closed. It's
that quick. That's why you got to be decisive. When
you see these quarterbacks and when you go through your progressions,
your progressions are split second. It's like snapshot, no snapshot,
no boom Miller in the corner of the end.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Like it's that quick.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
But that's the amazing part of those who do it
slow the game down. I don't know how they do it,
but in every sport, the great ones will tell you,
including the great one himself. He said the game slowed.
He saw the game differently. Montana talked about how he
saw the game differently. But it takes a while to
(11:45):
understand what am I looking at. I think we've all
gone to an art exhibit and we go, I don't know,
and then somebody else comes in and.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Go that Rothko.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I mean, that's fifty million dollars, and I go, I
could have painted that. That's what it is to be
a quarterback in the NFL. It's like there's something there.
There is yes being able to find it. How quickly
you find it. That's what your success and failure kind
of hinges on.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Hey, it's me Rob Parker.
Speaker 9 (12:26):
Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the Parker, for
twenty two minutes of pipeing hop baseball talk, featuring the
biggest names of newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe
in analytics or the I tast We've got all the
bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday, So do yourself
a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob
(12:48):
Parker on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Gary Myers New York Times best selling author. He wrote
Brady Versus Manning, The Untold Story of the Rival, Read
The trans Formed the NFL, and his new book released today,
Brady Versus Belichick, The Dynasty Debate, and he's been covering
the NFL for over forty years. Gary, good to see
you again. Let me start with Tom Brady in the
booth last night. You, as a long time journalist, scribe
(13:17):
any problems conflict of interest with Brady in the coach's
booth last night.
Speaker 10 (13:22):
Oh, how can we think it's a conflict of interest
because he's working on a network that covers the Raiders,
the Bears, the Cowboys, whatever, and then he's sitting in
the booth. This is just a horrible, horrible look for
the NFL, and they need to do something about it.
I mean, they approved him as an owner knowing he
was working for Fox, so and they scaled back to
(13:44):
the restrictions this year. But Tom should have known better
then to be so public last night, to be sitting
in the booth with us the headphones on, he's talking
to Chip Kelly two three times a week. You know, okay, fine,
but to be on national TV look like you're calling
in plays, even though I'm sure he wasn't. What a
(14:04):
horrible conflict of interest, and it's just such a bad
look for the NFL.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
But you know, knowing Brady doing Brady versus Manning, Brady
versus Belichick, Tom's extremely competitive. Tom's not there for a ceremonial.
I own part of the team. Tom would love nothing
better than to be on that podium hosting a Lombardi
Trophy as an owner.
Speaker 10 (14:28):
There's no question, And just think of this, And I
know you've already discussed this, But so Tom's got the
Bears and the Cowboys this week, and then in two
weeks the Raiders are playing the Bears. So you don't
think the information he gathers covering the Bears. And I
know they don't let him in the facility anymore, or
they'll let him in the facility still, but he's taking
part in the production meanings virtually, so he's able to
(14:51):
ask questions. And you know he's a smart guy. He's
asking good questions. Now, you hope the coaches and the
players are smart enough not to give him anything to inside.
But if anybody doesn't think he's running back to Pete,
Carol and Chip Kelly or who are else and telling
him what he found out. I mean, he's an honorable
guy and I like him a lot, but we can't
(15:11):
give him too much credit here for keeping things to himself.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
The book is Brady versus Belichick, the dynasty debate. What
led you to your conclusion of who has or who
was more important in that dynasty?
Speaker 10 (15:26):
Well, I think, first of all, I don't take into
consideration anything that happened after Brady left, So I don't
count the Tampa Super Bowl and Belichick struggling. I don't
count Belichick struggling before Brady took over in New England
because to me, it's irrelevant. The important part of this
debate is who gets the credit for what they accomplished together.
(15:48):
And I give a lot of credit to Belichick one
for drafting Brady even though it's only the sixth round.
If he knew he's gonna be great, Danny would have
taken him in the first round. But that first, you know,
until Brady's last drive on the winning field goal. That
season and that Super Bowl was all Belichick, both with
defense and running the ball. And then as you know
(16:10):
they're going they beat the Panthers in a really high
scoring game. I think that was like a fifty to fifty.
And then they beat the Eagles and that was more
of a defensive game. It wasn't really high scoring. So
I think the early part of the dynasty was really Belichick.
And I think the turning point of it was in
the seventh season when Tom throws fifty touchdowns, they go
(16:30):
sixteen to zero, come within some Velcrow and David Tyree's
helmets from winning that Super Bowl and being remembered as
the greatest singles team, greatest single season team in NFL history.
I think that's when we realized, you know, not only
is Brady better than Peyton Manning, but he's closing it
on Joe Montana. At that point, I still wouldn't have
(16:51):
said he was better than Joe when he won the
fourth Super Bowl and they were ten years apart between
the third and fourth. That's when I think the second
half of the dynasty I think was almost entirely Brady,
but because Belichick was so influential in the first half,
it doesn't even it out, but it makes the gap
a little less.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
But people players will have told me they wanted to
play with Brady. They didn't want to go play for Belichick,
but they wanted to play with Brady because Brady was
going to take him to the playoffs. You get extra
paychecks and you may win a Super Bowl. I three
players who played for them said that they went there
because Tom was the quarterback there.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Much that tips the scales here, but they were going
because they knew they had the best quarterback in the game.
Speaker 10 (17:37):
Well, I think that obviously had a lot to do
with it, but one of the players told me that
the reason that they put up with all of Belichick's
nonsense is because he knew They knew he knew how
to win. Yeah, and he's winning super Bowls and ultimately
that's all players really care about in the end. Well,
two things they care about, getting paid and winning super Bowls.
(17:59):
And if you wish super bowls, you get to get paid,
not necessarily by the Patriots, but become more attractive as
a free agent because you know, the super Bowl champions
always get picked apart in free agency. So Belichick was
good for their bank accounts, even though if they didn't
necessarily like to play for him.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You also look at the relationship between Brady and Joe
Montana and I didn't know that it was fractured or
I'll put it, let you put it into your words
of where is that or where was that relationship? Because
I think you allude to it. It's better now, but
there was a time when it wasn't good.
Speaker 10 (18:36):
Yeah, I mean what happened. You know, Joe still lives
in the Bay Area. Tom is from San Mateo, which
isn't far from where Joe lives. Joe and then Steve Young,
with Tom's heroes. Growing up. They had a mutual friend
who worked for the Golden State Warriors who called Montana
after Tom won his first Super Bowl and said, hey,
you know, Tom loves you. Can you have lunch with him?
(18:59):
So they had lunch at house and Joe thought this
would be a nice situation. He wasn't looking to be
Tom's mentor, but he thought it was gonna be a
nice relationship where, you know, he knew that Tom looked
up to him. Well. Joe told me that in the
succeeding year is the only time he heard from Brady
was when Tom broke one of Joe's records. He said, ah,
(19:19):
got another one of your records, And Joe said he
could have dealt with that if at the same time,
Tom was texting him every now and then say Hey Joe,
how you doing, I'm gonna be in town, let's get together,
that kind of stuff. But that didn't happen. And Joe,
I don't know how well you know Joe Dan, but
he's a great guy. He's really humble. For all those accomplishments,
(19:41):
he's really a humble guy. He never cared about stats.
He just cared about winning and was curious why Brady
was so hung up on breaking his records. They I
think they smoothed things out a little bit at some
of these you know, one hundred year anniversary oberations that
the NFL had, and when they had all the MVPs together,
(20:05):
they talked a little bit. But you know, I think
Joe's the kind of guy who does hold somewhat of
a grudge, and I don't think I'll ever forget that
he felt well disrespected by Tom, which which really surprised
me because I don't look at Tom as that kind
of guy. But you know, everybody has their own experience
with them, and that's what was Joe's experience.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Gary Myers, New York Times best selling author the book
released today, Brady Versus Belichick, The Dynasty Debate. I interviewed
Tom before the Super Bowl against the Eagles, and at
one point I said, do you think you and Belichick
will ever sit down and kind of open up the
scrap book and you know, walk down memory lane. He goes, no,
(20:48):
because that's that's not our relationship, right. Why it's Bill.
Bill's not capable of having that. You know, let's have
more than a coach player relationship.
Speaker 10 (21:03):
I think that he's capable of having it when the
player is no longer playing from him and retires, because
he has a really good relationship with guys like Carl
Banks and Lawrence Taylor and Phil Simms. It wasn't that now.
He was never coached Simms directly. But he doesn't allow
himself to get close to players because he knows, for
(21:26):
the most part, unless the guy retires on his own,
it's going to end poorly. So he doesn't want to
develop that real close personal relationship. Now. I think his
relationship with Brady is better today than it ever has been,
even during his playing career, over the five years or
so that they were separated. But I think today they've
(21:47):
come to appreciate what they meant to each other. But
I know when they did to Brady manning book. I
said to Tom it was kind of the same question
you asked him. I said, you're sitting there on Tuesday
night at ten o'clock, you're going over the game plan,
which they did every Tuesday night. I said, they ever say, hey,
we've been great for each other. At that point they
had won three Super Bowls. You know, do you ever reminisce, well,
(22:07):
you know, this is amazing. What we're doing and is
not over yet. Would you ever say, hey, there's not
much to do in Foxborough, but I know a good
place up the road and get a pizza and share
a picture of Beard. Do you ever do? That? Never
came up in conversation. And now I don't know what's
happened in the last couple of years since they're both
away from New England. But I know from the time
(22:28):
while Brady was still in New England and Tom was
in Tampa and then left Tampa, that that never occurred.
And I think Tom's father is much more outspoken than
Tom is himself about what the relationship is and how
he felt, you know, his son was disrespected all those
years in New England by Belichick.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Yeah, it's just a weird dynamic.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But I always whenever anybody asked me about it, I
always sided with Brady because he had to go out
and do it. And Bill was a defensive minded head coach,
So how much he was involved in the offense, I
mean that was Tom and he did you know, he
did have you know, offensive coordinators there to help him.
But I still lean towards Tom. That Bill can tell you,
(23:10):
or his assistants can tell you, Tom had to go
out and do it, and whether anybody's keeping score it.
It's not like Lebron and Jordan, But I think there
is still the who is more important the coach or
the star player in any sport.
Speaker 10 (23:25):
No, I agree with you. But as far as the
offensive input that Belichick had, remember in two thousand and one,
Dick Raybne, who is a Patriots quarterback coach, and he
was the one who was most responsible for Belichick drafting Brady.
He wanted to take him in the third or fourth round. Well,
Dick Raybne passed away right at the beginning of training
camp in oh one, and Belichick did not hire another
(23:47):
quarterback coach. Charlie Weiss was your offensive coordinator, but Rayvine
is the one who worked most closely with Brady. Belichick
became the de facto quarterback coach. He sat in on
a lot of meetings with Brady and Weiss. He had
a lot of meetings by himself with Brady, and what
he would do would give Brady the perspective of the
(24:07):
defensive coach and how to attack a defense. He was
really instrumental in Brady's development as a quarterback. Because of
Belichick's knowledge about defense, and Belichick did become like Parcels
before him. They did become good offensive coaches. Now, they
were still known as being brilliant defensive coaches, but they
(24:28):
became all around coaches. So I think that Belichick's influence
on Brady early on was much greater than anybody remembers.
And I point that out in the book.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, before I let you go. Yeah,
do you think North Carolina is Belichick's last stop?
Speaker 10 (24:46):
Yes? I don't think he'll get hired in the NFL again.
I was surprised he didn't get hired in the first
hiring cycle after he was fired in New England. We
know it came close in Atlanta and Weathercraft put the
kabash on that. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
How would he have done that, Gary, Well.
Speaker 10 (25:02):
He would. He would have called Arthur Blank and said,
you don't want you don't want this. I mean, this
is what he's going to do to your organization. Dan,
That's what owners were calling Craft about him two thousand
for your own mental health. Don't hire this guy, right,
And I wouldn't be like, listen, did Craft do that
with Blank? That's what a lot of people are saying
(25:23):
I don't know that personally now. The second time, Belichick
wanted into the NFL so badly that he called the
intermediary with the Jets who had an influence on the
hiring process, and he called him and said, I'm interested
in the Jets job. You think she'd rather be a
sanitation worker and I'm not putting the sanitation workers down,
(25:45):
but we'll go working as a cook in a kitchen
before you ever want to go to the Jets, considering
the history, but he said I want that job. And
after the guy finished laughing, he said, they're not going
to hire you. There's nobody who's gonna hire Belichick. Now,
the twenty four year old girlfriend that I think has
something to do, no owner wants a part of that,
and have him explain that I think Caroline is his
(26:07):
last job. Whether he's going to be successful there or
not is just a question of whether he can master
the nil and the transfer portal and get himself a quarterback.
You can't win without a quarterback at any level.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
He needs to Tom Brady.
Speaker 10 (26:20):
He does, and maybe he can find somebody in the
transfer portal and see something in him that nobody sees
because he obviously saw a little something in Brady that
he just invested a six round picking him. But I
want to before we say he's a genius for taking him,
just remember he took six other players in that draft
before he drafted Brady, including a defensive back there nobody
(26:42):
has ever heard of since in the sixth round before
he took Brady. So if he knew he was going
to be anything to what he turned, if he even
thought he was going to be a starter in the league,
he would have taken him before the sixth round.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
Good luck with the book. Gary, Good to connect with
you again.
Speaker 10 (26:56):
Yeah, Dan, thanks for having me on. It's great to
see it.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
Gary Meyers, New York Time. He's best selling author.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
He wrote Brady Versus Manning and the new book is
Brady Versus Belichick The Dynasty Debate.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Keen Blandino, Fox Sports, NFL college football rules analyst, former
NFL VP of Officiating watching the game.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Next thing I know. Dean Blandino's says he's done.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
With the toush push. Can't officiate. I go, Dean, your
microphone is on. What was what was the reaction? Why
did you have that reaction in the moment?
Speaker 11 (27:40):
That was a visceral reaction.
Speaker 12 (27:42):
Look, we had the game obviously Chiefs Eagles, big Super
Bowl rematch, and you know, we had a couple of
the Eagles. Look the play, they run it better than
anyone else, and they work at it and it's impressive
what they do. But just that game, we had a
couple two two goal to goal plays. Third down looks
(28:05):
like Hertz is in, they rule them short. It's really
tough to review. Can't see the football all these bodies.
Next play fourth and goal, they will touchdown. You've got
both guards moving early. Should have been a false start.
Then later in the game another big first down conversion
and you've got the guard moving early. So it just
got to the point for me where i've I've never
I've been on record, I don't love the play. It
(28:27):
was illegal to push runners forever, you know, since the
inception of the league until two thousand and five. We
took it out, and then hindsight, I think that was
a mistake and now we're we're stuck with this play
that that is a really.
Speaker 11 (28:40):
Difficult play to officiate.
Speaker 12 (28:42):
It just is, and personally it's not a I just
don't think it's a great play to watch.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
But you can officiate this by calling the guards, you know,
off side. Why don't we start with that.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
No question?
Speaker 11 (28:55):
Look, look those are those should have been called.
Speaker 12 (28:57):
That's not that I'm not condoning and making an excuse
for that.
Speaker 11 (29:02):
Was that should have been called.
Speaker 12 (29:03):
But I think once you take that out of the mix,
it's just with all those bodies and trying to get
the spot and we're trying to be perfect on these
spots and now we have virtual measurements.
Speaker 11 (29:12):
It's just a tough play.
Speaker 12 (29:13):
My thing is, it's just not a it's not when
you think about the rules, it's just not a fair play.
The defense can't push the runner back and gain an advantage.
There's always forward progress, but we let the offense do it.
And look, I was watching the highlights of the Cowboys
Giants game in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 11 (29:30):
That's everything the NFL is. You've got, you know, Russ.
Speaker 12 (29:33):
Wilson is to elite neighbors and Dak leading and then
in the history of the tush push not once.
Speaker 11 (29:39):
Have I ever seen it on Sports Center's Top ten Plays?
I just haven't.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's just I don't know how these officials spot the
ball in that scrum.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
I really don't.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Now you have the overhead shot, but those the officials,
they can't rely on that overhead camera shot.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Can they just spot the ball.
Speaker 11 (29:57):
After the fact in review? Yes, but you've we got
two officials.
Speaker 12 (30:01):
That are down the line looking at it, and they're
they're gonna come in as the play, you know, as
the as the pile kind of starts, and try to
get a look at the football and quite frankly, look
at the goal line mechanically. And this has been the
deal forever. If they don't see the football, they're not
going to rule on it. They're going to go in
dig in the pile, and if the ball is over
(30:22):
the goal line at that point, that's a touchdown. And
so that ball may have been short, but eventually it
worked its way after the runner was on the ground
over the goal line.
Speaker 11 (30:31):
So again, it's a tough play.
Speaker 12 (30:32):
That's been look short yardage plays are tough sneaks, those
types of things, But I think this play just kind
of adds another layer to it.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
But Dean.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I am shocked that the officials didn't convey this to
the owners to say we're having a hard time officiating this.
This is no bias against anybody. This is we're trying
to do our job and we can't do our job
given the context of this play. I don't know if
that's enough of an out for the NFL and these
owners this next go around. It's not a pretty play.
(31:03):
We know that if I can't spot the ball and
do my job, then that factors in something else. They
keep trying to say health. There's no data yet of
injuries there. You can't say, hey, somebody's gonna get hurt,
which they probably will. But you got to say, hey, guys, esthetically,
it's not pleasing and we can't do our job.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Is that enough to have them get rid of this play?
Speaker 12 (31:26):
It should be when you think about like I said,
it's not we think offense, defensive balance.
Speaker 11 (31:31):
It's not a fair play when you.
Speaker 12 (31:33):
Do have the difficulty in officiating, and that's when you
look at rules changes, you look at player safety, you
look at competitive equity, and you look at officiating consistency.
And if you can't consistently officiate this, it's a problem.
I think everybody, look, they were two votes short of
getting it out.
Speaker 11 (31:49):
I think everybody had Each club had its own reasons.
Speaker 12 (31:52):
I do believe because the Eagles won the Super Bowl,
there were some teams that didn't want to come across
is we can't stop this play.
Speaker 11 (32:01):
We're going to take the easy route and we're going
to vote it out.
Speaker 12 (32:04):
I think if they don't win the Super Bowl and
we still have issues with this play, there's probably a
better chance that it goes away.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Talking to Dean Blandino, he used to be the head
of officials for the NFL. He doesn't need that headache anymore.
Fox Sports, NFL college football rules analysts. Even the neutral
zone like there, it seems like there's there's an infraction
on every one of these toush pushes. And I don't
the Eagles would still be successful. They they would with
(32:32):
with Jalen Hurts. You don't need somebody pushing from behind.
You can still call it a quarterback sneak. I just
can't have somebody pushing from behind. That just seems you
want to think about an injury. You could have an
injury with your quarterback being pushed from behind. Jam and
Is you know head in there, but uh, no question and.
Speaker 11 (32:53):
Look and I agree with you.
Speaker 12 (32:55):
And I was talking to somebody yesterday at one of
the clubs, and I think the Eagles would be successful
on QB sneaks. QB sneaks were you know, that's a
high percentage play when it's third and one, fourth and one,
So they would be successful. And that's why I don't
think this needs It was illegal forever. I don't know
why we need to keep this push. We don't let
(33:15):
the defense do it. Why are we letting the offense
do it?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Pointy of emphasis with taunting this year. How did this
come about?
Speaker 12 (33:23):
I think the league the data that they presented in
the off season, and how they quantify this, I don't know.
But they said, okay, they said they said tawning was
up like fifty percent. Violent gestures, sexually suggestive, those types
of things that are in bad taste were up over
I mean it was like one hundred and thirty percent
whatever the number was. So they've obviously looked at film
(33:45):
and they felt, okay, identified these actions and they want
to emphasize it because it it does look sportsmanship is important,
it's something you know it. Trey has that trickle down effect.
Kids are watching those types of things, and you saw it.
I mean there was a big play in that in
that Dallas Giants game where where you had three fouls
on the Giants, three fouls and CD Lamb gets up
(34:07):
and gets a taunt and it all offset. So it's
a big penalty. And this is going to be a
major deal. You know, as long as this emphasis is in.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
Place and protecting quarterbacks, is anything changed.
Speaker 12 (34:20):
Nothing's changed. I think we've gone again player safety. Health
and safety is the top priority. I think we've gone
a little too far with some of these hits. I
think the quarterback position. Obviously, it's you're in a defenseless
posture when you're in that passing posture and you and
your focus is downfield. So yeah, the the headneck area,
(34:41):
those types of things, the late hits, I do think
we've you know, we see some of these hits where
it's just a defensive player, especially a big defensive lineman,
fighting through blocks and making a tackle.
Speaker 11 (34:52):
And just happens to land the wrong way and it's
fifteen yards. I think that's tough.
Speaker 12 (34:57):
But that's not going away that you list did all
these injuries that we have in this league, right, we
need the Joe Burrows, we need the Jaden Daniels and
and so they're going to protect that position.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
What about listening in on replay? We've seen this with
the ACC I've been saying for years, I think with gambling,
with total transparency, and I don't know if that's enough
that the NFL or the officials are going to say, yeah,
come on in, listen.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
But boy'd be entertaining.
Speaker 12 (35:24):
What do you think would definitely be entertaining, because I've
been involved in a lot of discussions where if that
went out publicly, people, we definitely definitely, you know, get
a chuckle out of it.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Look, I think can you give me it? For instance,
though without names.
Speaker 11 (35:39):
No, I'll I'll look. I was involved in a very
controversial play.
Speaker 12 (35:44):
You might have heard of it, the des Bryant play,
you know, Packers Cowboys.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Should have been a touchdown by the way.
Speaker 11 (35:50):
Yeah, there you go. So the play happens that we
see it happen.
Speaker 12 (35:55):
I'm watching, you know, Mike mccartheugh's coaching the Packers at
the time, and in my head, I'm going he's going
to throw the challenge flag.
Speaker 11 (36:01):
He's going to throw the challenge back.
Speaker 12 (36:03):
And as soon as it came out, I said to
the room, get ready the s h I T is
about to hit the fan, because I knew it was
going to be controversial either way. Right, So, so those conversations,
I think it's it's it's two sets. I think transparency
is so important, like you said, because if you can
just listen in, it eliminates.
Speaker 11 (36:21):
Any of the conspiracy.
Speaker 12 (36:22):
Right now, it might it might be like, wow, those
guys don't know what they're doing. You know, it might
go from conspiracy to competence. Love that, but but it
definitely would eliminate some of that, some of that, hey,
what what are they doing?
Speaker 11 (36:37):
We we just don't get it.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
If you had it, I'll give you a do over
with des Bryant.
Speaker 11 (36:43):
Under the current rule. Now, that was the that was
the rule. That was an easy one. Today today it's
a catch, and I get it. I understand why people
would have thought that that was a catch.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
It was a layup, dann come on, stupid rule.
Speaker 11 (36:59):
Right, Well, it was a I think the catch rule.
Speaker 12 (37:03):
I think the problem we ran into is that forever
before replay, the catch rule was written so the onfield
officials could make that call in real time, right, they can't.
Speaker 11 (37:12):
Slow it up. They can't.
Speaker 12 (37:13):
So that was the rule and that's why, you know,
hold on to it when you hit the ground was
a thing. But now we have replay. It changes how
we can look at these things.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Are officials allowed to be out of shape?
Speaker 11 (37:25):
There shouldn't be. That's that's I.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Mean, it feels like there's a workout program here that
like the ED Hockey League appropra.
Speaker 11 (37:33):
Definitely it has been and I think we just know more.
Speaker 12 (37:36):
Look when I first started at the league office, and
I don't know if I've ever told you this, but
ninety five my first officiating clinic, the physical test that
they had to pass to be an official at that
clinic was walk.
Speaker 11 (37:51):
A mile, not even times, just not die. And now
it's much much more stringent.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
So you combine for officials.
Speaker 11 (38:01):
They do, they do.
Speaker 12 (38:03):
They have a they have a group that comes in
and and you know, strength and and conditioning and works
with them and and uh and you know, and Ed.
I think Ed might actually do like his own combine
where it's just it's just arms, you know, it's just
just arm day every day.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
It was great to talk to you. Thank you all right,
that's Dean Blandino, Fox Sports, NFL college football rules analyst,
former VP of Officiating,
Hosts And Creators
Todd "Fritzy" Fritz
Dan Patrick
Patrick "Seton" O'Connor
Paul Pabst
Marvin Prince
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.