September 26, 2025 • 50 mins
DP and the Danettes react to the Seahawks' win over the Cardinals. Is Russell Wilson a Hall of Famer? PFT Live co-host Chris Simms isn't buying Russell Wilson's HOF case and remains confident that the Vikings will be fine with J.J. McCarthy.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio Football.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Last night, Seahawks hold off the Cardinals and Seattle now
three and one on the year, and the questions with
the Cardinals remain whether it's Kyler Murray well the overall organization.
Marvin Harrison Junior the third did have a touchdown reception
and the Cardinals made it interesting. But Seattle at the
buzzer wins that one and now improves to three and one.
(00:28):
Busy schedule coming up this weekend. The Saints are fifteen
and a half point underdogs at the Buffalo Bills. You
don't get a number that big, you know. The NFL
prides itself on parody that maybe you'll get upwards of seven, eight,
nine point spread. But I saw that with the Saints
(00:48):
fifteen and a half point underdogs in Buffalo. There's a
game coming up this weekend where the point spread has
kind of fluctuated a little bit. I find this a
fascinating game. It's not a game that people are talking about.
It's a college game. If you've got so we have
LSU and Ole Miss, we have Oregon, Penn State, Alabama
(01:09):
and Georgia. Those are all great games, great matchups. But
the game that I find the most interesting is Ohio
State and Washington because this started out ten and a
half for Ohio State giving ten and a half. Now
it's down to seven and a half in some places.
(01:31):
Something's going on here now. Washington has a good offense.
We haven't seen too much from Ohio State since the
opening win against Texas. You're on the road, and I
find this one a fascinating game. But we'll talk about
some of the other matchups throughout the show eight seven
to seven to three. DP Show operator Tyler sitting by.
He'll take your phone calls. Email address DP at Danpatrick
(01:53):
dot com, Twitter handle at DP show. The Ryder Cup
is underway and Team USA is getting roughed up early,
and we'll keep an eye on that as well. Chris
Simms from Football Night in America will stop by coming
up next hour, seeing what's poll question you're going to
go with today, At least for the first hour.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I think we've got two of them here for you
for the first hour. From Paul NFL franchise that feels
least competitive year to year.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Is this Recncy bias here with the Arizona Cardinals.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
A little bit it's like a feel when you watch
a team or a franchise year to year, they just
feel like they're going to disappoint. And the Cardinals are
possibly a one seed.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Okay, Yeah, they tend to find the banana peal. Now
they've had some hot starts, you know where, first half
of the season, and then all of a sudden they
cooled off. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't know if I if I agree about that
on the Cardinals, because they there's always a little bit
of Man, if they could figure this out though, if
Kyler American figure this out, if Man they get they
just get a superstar wide receiver, maybe they could figure that.
There's always a little bit like man, they're like, they're
right there about being super competitive and then it just
doesn't work. They're not the Browns.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Would you well, okay, would you rather be a Cardinal
fan or a Browns fan? Cardinals fan?
Speaker 5 (03:14):
All day?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
All right, godd, I think I'd.
Speaker 6 (03:17):
Rather be a Browns fan because you got the dog
pound and people who look genuinely passionate about their team. Arizona,
they're in the sun and the desert. I don't know,
you know, they took shot to the Stateum I don'tso
really see that Arizona sports fan crazy passion that i'd
want to be surrounded by at the stadium.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, sun and desert don't impact the game, because no.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
But like the there's other things to do. When you're enjoying
the sunshine, you're kind of mellow. You don't hear about
the crazy Arizona fans, but you do hear about the dog.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Fan, Marvin Cardinal fan or Browns fan.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Rather be a Cardinals fan, all right, Paul, this is
a tough one.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
The Cardinals have made the postseason six times in the
past forty years.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That's a horrible percentage. Yeah, I'd rather be a Browns fan.
I'm gonna go Browns fan. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
I think Fritzy had a point. They feel more into football. Yeah,
there's passion there as a franchise. Yes, not the fan base.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm not big on. Well, you know, I thought the whole.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Point of this discussion that Todd just had was about
the fan base.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I would say more so like the ownership. They're both
bad ownerships. But the Cardinals have a history of not investing. Well,
we keep waiting for Kyler Murray.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I don't know what we're expecting to see Marvin Harrison.
You know, Herbie was talking about this last night. This
was a big topic, and rightfully so, this was a
can't miss. Your dad's a Hall of Famer, and you
look to be bigger and better and stronger and faster,
and it hasn't happened. Now. His numbers his rookie year
weren't bad, but he's supposed to be great. And he
(04:47):
stopped on a route that led to an interception. He
had a big drop. Now I did have a really
good touchdown reception, but you're supposed to have these things.
You're supposed to be great. And I maybe because you're
at Ohio State, everything is open. Don't have to worry
about here in footsteps. But this is a standalone game.
(05:07):
And I said this would be a topic and a
topic after the game depending on how well he played
a standalone game. And Marvin Harrison maybe that's the first
time you've seen him play. Talent's there, Kyler Murray. What
did he get sacked seven times last time and last
night six times last night?
Speaker 7 (05:27):
I mean, and.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
That's on the quarterback as well. That's not just the
offensive line. That is quarterback trying to do maybe too much.
You find a lot of these quarterbacks that you know,
that's where's it's kind of an optical illusion, where, man,
how did that guy? How did Cato Williams get sacked
sixty eight times? Isn't he athletic? Lamar Jackson got sacked
what seven times? The other night? Well, they're trying to
(05:51):
keep a play alive too long, and sometimes you know
that athleticism comes back to haunt you.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
But for the.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Cardinals in that division, you know, because the Niners are undefeated,
the Rams are going to be there in the playoffs.
And Seattle's three and one, so the margin for air
and you haven't beaten Seattle since twenty twenty one. But
it's just not an inspiring franchise there. What's the other
(06:18):
poll question? Seton?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
The other one we got here is the Vikings letting
Sam Donald leave was the right decision at the time
or will come back to haunt them?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, it's the right decision. We saw when you need
Sam Darnald to be great. What happened those last two
games of the regular season and postseason didn't go well.
Do I think he's a bridge quarterback in Seattle? I do,
And it might just be a one year deal. I mean,
Jalen Milroe could be their starting quarterback, but I don't
(06:51):
think there's And Sam was drafted probably too high or
too high to go to a bad team when he
went to the Jets. He had a really good career
at USC, but you know, he got kicked around in
a couple other spots. You know, this isn't a I
didn't do well in one place and now I go
(07:11):
to another place, and now I have this epiphany. He
had stops along the way. Do I think he's capable
of leading them to the playoffs. I do, but I
don't look at him the way I look at, you know,
some of these other franchise quarterbacks. And it's probably it's
it says three year deal, it's really a one year deal.
And I think the Vikings they made, you know, they
(07:35):
made that decision when they drafted JJ McCarthy that they
were moving on from him, just like they moved on
from Kirk Cousins. And they're all in on JJ McCarthy. Now,
unless JJ McCarthy is going to be injury prone his
entire career, then I don't Minnesota made the right decision.
By all accounts, they made the right decision and you
(07:55):
get that rookie contract with JJ McCarthy. He just hasked
to stay healthy. Do I think he should be a
better quarterback than Sam Doneld, Yes, but if Sam can
kind of just not make mistakes. And last night was
just hey, just go out there, get a touchdown, touchdown,
a couple of touchdowns, no interceptions, and maintain manage a game.
(08:18):
That's all. So we'll get to your phone calls coming up.
Here is the This is one of those games last
night where you didn't know who the coaches were, or
you might not know who the coaches were. So when
Jonathan Gannon is being interviewed at halftime and they're booing
him and he hung in there, and who was doing
(08:42):
the sideline Lizy hartin, Yes, Hey, kudos to you because
you brought up the booze that were happening in the
moment there to the coach. They're booing wonderful. But Jonathan
Gannon and then Seattle's head coach is Mike McDonald, and
Mike McDonald and he talked about how the Seahawks executed
(09:06):
late in the game to win for us.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
It was just like, all right, hey, look we're not
on you know, we're identifying the two minute situation, and
Ad and the guys are talking to the guys on
the bench and they're ready to go to overtime. They're
talking about our overtime plan. It was just kind of like, hey,
what's what's next. Clint called some great plays. We had
a great protection that's in that series. You're fortunate with
the kick being you know, not in the landing zone.
(09:29):
And then you know, Sam and Jacks were just whites
out and just a great job overall.
Speaker 7 (09:34):
Brian did a great job.
Speaker 8 (09:35):
Of managing the managing the clock, and this is this
is how we roll.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Okay, So that's Mike McDonald, not McDaniel and Jonathan Gannon.
Prity goes Jonathan Gannon. Was he a backup quarterback somewhere
with Rich I have?
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Mike McDonald had a farm? Yeah, yeah, Oh and what's
going on there?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, Mike Glennon Terry Gannon, Like, you know, I don't
know what's going on here, but standalone game and therefore,
everybody has an opinion on both of these teams from
last night. We will get to your phone calls coming up.
The topic is not leaving anytime soon, and that is
Russell Wilson junior third. Is he a Hall of Famer
(10:19):
playing himself out of the Hall of Fame? Tony Gonzalez,
hall of Famer, came down hard on Russell Wilson last night.
Richard Sherman, his former teammate, came down hard on Russell
Wilson as well. We'll talk about that, but it's open
season on Russell Wilson. It feels like I hope he
(10:39):
gets an opportunity to play for the Bengals. I don't
know if it'll happen. I don't know if the Bengals
are interested. I know he's saying all the right things,
but he always says all the right things. It feels
like the only time in his career he didn't say
what you thought he was going to say was when
he came on this show and said he wanted out
of Seattle. That's it. Maybe needs the same say the
(11:02):
same thing in New York. You know what, I don't
want to be looking over Jackson's shoulder. We have Jamis here.
Can I go and try to salvage the back end
of my career? Can I go play for the Bengals
for a year. I don't know if it'll happen. But
if I'm the Bengals, I'd certainly entertain that, but will
play some of the comments that Tony Gonzalez and Richard
(11:24):
Sherman had, And I know Richard Sherman doesn't like Russell Wilson.
I wish that he would have said that up front. Look,
I don't have a good relationship or I didn't like
him when he was a teammate, like, because you got
to factor that in. You know, his opinion as a
player now as an analyst is a little bit cloudy
(11:44):
because he didn't like Russell Wilson. A lot of players
on Seattle didn't like Russ. They thought he was phony.
But he helped you get a Super Bowl ring. Now
you can say you helped him, absolutely, But I think
you got to do a little deeper dive just to
be fair to Russ in what he's done or what
he did. It's easy to look at him now and
(12:04):
say he's washed, and he might be.
Speaker 9 (12:07):
Yes, Marvin, it might be unfair, But do you think
they look at him maybe like a Brad Johnson, maybe
a Trent Deal for somebody that a Jim McMahon. We
were led by a great defense and you were just
a quarterback on the team. It's not like you were
a great quarterback. We won that Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Look, he played for a great defense. Nobody's denying that.
But sometimes we forget. Did Joe Montana have great players
on his team?
Speaker 5 (12:30):
I think so?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Okay, did Matthew Stafford have one of the greatest defensive
players of all time on his team when he won
the Super Bowl? Did he have you know, an upper
echelon head coach, maybe the best coach in the NFL
right now? Did he have Cooper cup Obj was on
that team? Like, if we're going to start bringing in, well,
(12:51):
how much talent did that guy have? How much talent
did that guy have? Like, you got to be fair,
and I don't know that people are being fair to
Russell Wilson. Yes, Marvin, but.
Speaker 9 (13:01):
I was just saying this, Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas
and those guys from Lesion to Boom think that about
russ that that you know, he was just a quarterback.
It's not like he was leading the charge. This team
was led with a great defense and you just happen
to be the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I don't think he's Trent Dilfer. Oh, I mean either
not Joe Flacco. I think he got to be fair too,
and I think I think we forget you know what,
let me take a break. We'll bring back the sound
from last night. I was surprised that this was a
topic last night, but I guess with Seattle on there
(13:38):
and you know the memories of Russell Wilson.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show week days at nine am Eastern six am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 10 (13:51):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get.
Speaker 11 (14:00):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in
our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber lit in me.
Speaker 10 (14:14):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 11 (14:18):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but We're also gonna talk
life and relationships, and if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 10 (14:32):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
A little harder.
Speaker 10 (14:40):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 11 (14:42):
There you go, over Promising, and remember you could see
it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Two teams double digit underdogs in the NFL got the
Saints getting fifteen and a half. In Buffalo the Browns
against the Lions. The Browns are getting ten age seven
to seven three DP show email address Dpadanpatrick dot com,
Twitter handle at DP show. If you bailed after three
quarters last night, you probably thought Marvin Harrison Junior is
(15:15):
not very good or not going to have a good night.
He was good in the fourth quarter. I'm not sure
what you're going to get out of him, and once
again his numbers weren't pedestrian last year. It's just I
thought he was one hundred catch guy. Thought he was
a ten touchdown guy. I thought he was a twelve
hundred yard guy. I'm waiting for him to be dominant.
(15:35):
And I don't know if it's going to happen in Arizona.
I don't know if it will happen with Kyler Murray,
but that certainly was a topic last night. We'll get
a couple of phone calls here, then we'll dive into
the topic that continues to linger, and that is Russell Wilson.
Should he retire? Is he a Hall of Famer? A
couple of guys weighed in on that last night, Buddha
(15:58):
and San Francisco. Hi, Buddha, come back.
Speaker 12 (16:02):
No buddy, happy to meet Friday boys live every day
in the fast lane. Fritzy, let's go, Baby, let's go Buddha. Well,
then I got to say after Wednesday, that changed my
whole driving perspective forever. I I didn't get a chance
(16:22):
of calling with my shirt idea, but I wanted to
still throw it in fast and Fritziest.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Thank you, Buddha. Yeah, we're trying to come up with
a T shirt by the end of the show and
they'll be available for the just for the weekend there.
Colby in California, Hi Colby, but.
Speaker 12 (16:44):
Hey, hey, I had a I had two things, one the.
Speaker 7 (16:52):
Yes or all right.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I got a bad connection there, Colby, Uh Scott and
Saint Paul Hi Scott.
Speaker 13 (17:00):
Dan morning Fella's first time long time five to seven,
relatively solid one sixty five.
Speaker 7 (17:09):
Uh, thank you. It occurred to.
Speaker 13 (17:12):
Me over the last two days, and especially listening yesterday
about the great passing lane controversy.
Speaker 14 (17:20):
That for someone who is not on the bone of
section row feat for years now that Todd was having
such a hard time grasping the idea of slow lane,
cruising lane passing lane.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Thank you, scoinn. Does that help you, ton?
Speaker 6 (17:46):
It doesn't because it's slow lane, cruising lane fast lane,
because many people use the left lane, as I said
the last couple of days, not as a way to
pass other cars, but to just go very fast for
long periods of time in the left lane.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Christian Syracuse joins us Hi, Chris, Hey.
Speaker 15 (18:01):
Thanks Tan heay a question for you and on the
T shirt there's no way to be passole. But I
was thinking it's a little wordy, but hey, Passol Toddler aboard.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So back off.
Speaker 15 (18:12):
Earlier in the week, the Yankees caught some grief for
their celebration when they clinched the wild card, and I
don't know for me. If Chico bail Bonds had no
problem with Tanner Boyle and the Boys and knocking back
a couple of beers after their big game, I have
no problem with it.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, but nobody expected Bad News Bears to do anything.
The Yankees are the Yankees. No celebrate a wild card birth,
You're the Yankees.
Speaker 15 (18:37):
My question is Dan, two weeks ago, nobody thought that
the Yankees said a shot at the division, and this weekend,
if they win the division, do they go hair the
dog and celebrate again.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I'm fine with them celebrating the division and it might
change the MVP if Aaron Judge helps lead the Yankees
to win the division, just like cal cal Rawly, according
to DraftKings, is your favorite to win the MVP in
the American League. And it's a great story. I wonder
(19:09):
if Major League Baseball is going to do cut Ins.
Let's say he gets to sixty two home runs. Are
they going to do what they did with Aaron Judge,
Because when Aaron Judge was going to pass Roger Maris.
They were, you know, every at bat it felt like,
are they going to do that? Is the commissioner going
to be going to Seattle's games this weekend if he
(19:31):
happens to pass Aaron Judge on the all time list?
All right, So here's this story. And we've talked about
Russell Wilson before. He's been was a frequent guest on
this show for many many many years, many many times,
mostly when he was in Seattle, but he's fallen off
(19:52):
when he went to Denver. Now, the numbers in Denver
weren't terrible. I think his last year there was twenty
six touchdowns, eight interceptions. There's a lot of quarterbacks who
would sign up for that, a lot of teams who
would sign up for that. But given what they gave
up to get him, Russ was not going to live
up to that and the contract that he signed, he
was not going to live up to them. And you
(20:14):
had Sean Payton who did not want Russell Wilson. He got,
you know, to Pittsburgh, got them to the playoffs, but
you know they were going to move on from him
because they had inside track with Aaron Rodgers. It's just
he has not been the right guy at the right
time where he was in Seattle, and he was there
(20:35):
rookie contract third round pick Pete Carroll saw enough in
him that he said, hey, you're going to be my starter.
You had a veteran team, certainly defensively, you had a
couple of offensive weapons, certainly Marshawn Lynch. You had a
couple of really good offensive linemen there. And Russ did
what you would want your quarterback to do in that situation,
(20:56):
not lose games, occasionally have some magic there, won a
Super Bowl, nearly one another Super Bowl, and he's gone
to ten Pro Bowls. Now you can say, was he
an alternate last year for the Pro Bowl? Now, I
don't know when's the last time he was a Pro
Bowl quarterback if we could check on that.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah, a true Pro Bowl quarterback twenty twenty one in Seattle.
He was an alternate last year. Last year he had
sixteen touchdowns and five picks.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Okay, the Pro Bowl is not what it once was,
but that's only been over the last couple of years.
Let's say Russ has nine legitimate Pro Bowls, Okay, nine
in Seattle, nine in like eleven years something like that.
That's pretty impressive, and you won a super Bowl. I
think because he is viewed as losing a super Bowl,
(21:45):
he threw the past you lost to super Bowl. That
brings him down a notch. He did more for Seattle
that year than Peyton did the year in Denver when
they won a Super Bowl, but Peyton's given credit for
two super Bowls there. Last night, Tony Gonzalez was asked
(22:05):
by Carrissa Thompson about Russell Wilson.
Speaker 9 (22:10):
Do you think we've seen the last of Russell Wilson?
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Honest, I hope we have.
Speaker 16 (22:14):
And I say that because just looking at him and
his career, his legacy, like you talked about, if ever
there was somebody who played himself out of the Hall.
Speaker 7 (22:24):
Of Fame, it's Russell Wilson.
Speaker 16 (22:26):
Well, and I say that because look at what he's
what's happened ever since he left Seattle. When he was
in seat, he was the man, he was making these
good plays. He won a Super w with the two
of them. But as soon as he left there, he
went the Denverse on that big old deal. They paid
him thirty nine million dollars to leave.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
He goes the Pittsburgh plays there.
Speaker 16 (22:40):
One year, he's out of there, and now he goes
here and has three games. I just don't know if
it's gonna get any better. And I don't want to
see him on a sideline holding a clipboard.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Okay, here is Richard Sherman, former teammate of Russell Wilson.
Speaker 17 (22:54):
I think you got to judge his career off. When
the Legion of Boom was there. He had a legendary defense,
an all time defense, and how much success he had,
and then without that legendary defense, the success he had.
Without that legendary defense, he's been four and eleven, seven
and eight on in three. To start with the Giants,
he was a winning football player in Seattle, and people said, hey,
winning his football player, all this good stuff, all these accolades,
(23:16):
and now you get to go on your own and
you get to proved, Hey, I'm this great quarterback, I'm
this guy that's going to be dominant, and it just
hasn't worked.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Out that way.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Okay, this is revisionist history. The legion of Boom went
away when Russ was twenty seven. You can point towards
the last three years. How about we be fair to
what he did in Seattle, because that's what this is about.
And once you're in, aren't you in in the Hall
of Fame Unless there's a scandal. It doesn't feel like
(23:47):
you're going to play your way out of it. Now.
Have I brought up this question? Absolutely to be fair
to the topic, I have said, is he playing his
way out of it? My job is to ask the question.
Your opinion could be, of course not. But I think
you gotta be careful with what Russ did in Seattle
after the Lege in the boom and because of Russ's contract,
you were able to keep players a little bit longer
(24:09):
because he was on that rookie deal.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, Pully, you're exactly right on the defense in Seattle
when Russ was there, Russell Wilson's first five years in Seattle,
they had a top three defense every year. His last
five years in Seattle, they didn't have a top ten
defense in any of those seasons.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, there's two different eras. But I think you got
to be fair to him, and I don't think people
are now. Is he different? Is he odd? Yes? But
he was still great in Seattle. He did what you
want a quarterback to do. What do you need me
to do. Now, how many times did we watch a
Seattle game and the score would be like seventeen to fifteen,
(24:48):
and then Pete Carroll would go, I don't know, Russ
pull this out, and he would he had that one pass,
that one pass it's and once again the pass was
on the numbers. You know, you just had Malcolm Butler,
who made one of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history,
football history.
Speaker 9 (25:09):
Yes, Maarman, did we consider Russell Wilson a First Battle
Hall of Famer at the end of his reign in Seattle?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
No, but there are quarterbacks who have put up less
numbers than him. Eli's regular season is not good at all.
It is is average. His record is five hundred. That's average.
He won two incredible Super Bowls. He was MVP, even
(25:39):
though on one of those the defensive line should have
been mvpick. But he got two of those and had
two incredible runs. We're trying to bring Eli into the
Russell conversation or vice versa. Eli stands on his own.
It shouldn't be about Russell Wilson, and Russell shouldn't be
about Eli Manning. But that's it feels like that's that's
(26:03):
the conversation.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Now, yes, yeah, because if that pick doesn't happen, they're
the exact scene.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Well, no, Russ is a would be considered a far,
in my opinion, far better quarterback than Eli.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah, but if for us has that second ring, then
he's in no questions, absolutely, that's the comparison ELI getting
that second ring and beating the Patriots.
Speaker 7 (26:22):
That gets him in for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
No problem. And Eli made the Pro Bowl four times
and he led the league and interceptions a couple of
times three times. I mean, I don't have any problem
with Eli being a Hall of Famer. He's going to
be you know his name. You beat Belichick and Brady twice. Okay,
(26:46):
played a long time, he was durable. He played in
over two hundred consecutive games. But Russ is a Hall
of Famer. I know he's tailed off here. He's playing
for a bad team Pittsburgh. They went to the playoffs Denver,
and that was a bad move by Denver, and Sean
(27:06):
Payton quickly realized that, Yeah, PAULI the.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Comp on this is almost like an actor, like a
guy like ne Liam Neeson was once considered one of
the top actors in the world, and like he was
in the most serious movies. He won awards. Then he
kind of changed directions at the end of the career
and it was different. It's not the same stuff. It's
like just because an actor or even a musician changes
what they do in the back half of their career,
it doesn't take away from the first half. And it's
(27:33):
almost like these guys last night were looking in through
the lens of Russell Wilson as a giant and they
can't see the past the ten years in Seattle.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, And I mean there's different comps here if you're
trying to do that. I mean, is he a Ben
Roethlisberger kind of quarterback?
Speaker 7 (27:49):
Here?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Roethlisberger was carried to that first Super Bowl and Jerome
Bettis and Heinz Board have talked about that, how he
was scared to death in that first Super Bowl. But
you know he put up great numbers here. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I think it's tough to ask a former teammate who
played on the defense to be impartial about certain conversations
because in his mind, I mean, Richard Sherman's reaction to
that interception is almost as famous as the play itself, right,
And he's like, no, man, because if it wasn't for that, dude,
(28:26):
we would have won. The defense is what carried us
all these years. We're the ones that did this. And
the whole story the whole time was yeah, Legion of
Boom was whatever. But now let Russ cook, what about
russ Man, We go take the training wheels off Russ
let him go do what he think. And meanwhile, you know,
people like Richard Sherman are like, no, dude, like we
carried that dude, I kinda. I think it's difficult to
(28:48):
ask people who are in the situation to not have
an opinion, a strong opinion about it.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Be fair, rich the Legion of Boom has gotten a
ton of credit, a ton of credit. Nobody is bypassing
them and saying they weren't impactful. One of the great
secondaries we have ever seen in the NFL. So they've
gotten their flowers here and you got Earl Thomas and
Richard Sherman, who are probably Hall of famers. Cam Chancellor
was wonderful. Here's the last five years in Seattle for
(29:16):
Russell Wilson touchdowns and interceptions thirty four and eleven, thirty
five and seven, thirty one and five, forty and thirteen
and twenty five and six. Only Aaron Rodgers was better
over that period touchdown to interception ratio. I think you
(29:41):
look at today and you're not being fair to what
Russ was without the legion of boom, because the legion
of boom wasn't there after he was twenty seven, he's
thirty six now.
Speaker 9 (29:53):
Yes, Mark, going back to Roethlisberger, the same point that
you made with Eli, Ben Roethlisberger became a Hall of
Famer because of a unbelievable Super Bowl against the Cardinals.
And I think that's the big distinction, is the one
super Bowl versus the two Super Bowls with Eli and Ben.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
But nobody says, boy, the Steelers had an unbelievable defense,
I mean, right.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
And James Harrison had one of the best.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yes, yes, James Harrison's interception at the end of the
first half.
Speaker 9 (30:23):
But I think Ben Roethlisberger had that unbelievable pass that
how many people can make.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Okay, he had an unbelievable pass that was an unbelievable
two minute drill. Absolutely, I mean, Ben's a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
I just.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
I'm surprised that you know the tail end. What if
Russ started his career right now, the way he's ending
it and then flipped it around.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
He's in like Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yes, we're like, oh my god, this guy's unbelievable. But
we look at the tail end and mean, you know
when we see Willie's fallen down in center field as
a met well, yeah, do I remember it? Yes, But
I also remember might have been the greatest talent I
ever saw in a baseball field. Yeah, Pauling.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
The two years that Ben Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl
with the Steelers, they had the third ranked defense in
the league and the first ranked defense.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
In the league.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, but nobody brings that up, no context. No, that's
all I think Richard needs to at least say, hey,
I don't have the best relationship with Russ. Maybe I
can't be impartial here. Tony Gonzalez can say whatever he wants.
I mean, these are their opinions, and they played the game,
and you know you had Richard who played with Ross.
I understand that. Let's just remember the numbers here and
(31:41):
how the team performed.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Yeah, if you look at say like twenty twelve, the
Seahawks averaged about twenty five points a game on offense
and gave up fifteen points. If you go ten years later,
well not quite ten years later, but if you go
to say twenty nineteen, they were averaging twenty five points
a game still on offense, giving up twenty five points
a game on defense. I mean, that's like the whole
(32:03):
story just based on that. To me, Russell Wilson and
that offense stayed exactly the same through his entire tenure there.
The only difference was the defense started giving up too
many points for him to overcome.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Yeah, Paul, if you go back to the Super Bowl
Patriots versus Seattle, the Luminaries that Russell Wilson was throwing to,
Chris Matthews, Ricardo Lockette, Jermaine Curse, Doug Baldwin and Brian
Walters and Gronkowski and Edlman were on the other side.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And Brady Yeah, yeah, maybe you heard of him. Yeah,
it's an interesting topic. I just think it's easy to
dismiss Russ now and forget about what he did before. Yes, Martan, if.
Speaker 9 (32:43):
Russe Wilson had an MVP award, would this not even
be a discussion, Because I think the big difference is
when we say, like Peyton Manning, he didn't have a
great ending in Denver, but he had MVP awards.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
Would that be a big difference?
Speaker 9 (32:55):
Also because Pro Bowls might be Pro Bowls versus all
pros are a different stratosphere.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, if you look at super Bowls and super Bowl
MVPs for quarterbacks, I mean that's our regular season MVPs. Yes,
that's probably the category that you use. You add that
up and that I mean look at Brady. The number
of super Bowl wins, the number of super Bowl MVPs.
(33:21):
I don't know how many times he was a regular
season MVP, but it's probably the total is fifteen of
MVP super Bowl and regular season MVP. That's that dwarfs everybody.
That's double what Peyton. Peyton had what five MVPs he
had two Super Bowls.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 2 (33:53):
He's Chris Sims, Pro Football Talk Live co host, also
his podcast Unbuttoned and a contribut or too Football Night
in America. Where is this dislike discrediting, hatred or whatever
it might be? With Russell Wilson coming from that. Now
it's a topic is he playing his way out of
(34:14):
the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 7 (34:16):
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, first off, I don't
think I had him in the Hall of Fame anyways,
So I think that's still a debatable topic there a
little bit, all right, NFL legend, right, one of the
better quarterbacks of our era for sure, but hall of Fame.
I'm not really ready to say that about Russell Wilson. Now.
The criticism, you know, again, I think a lot of
(34:37):
it has to do with his play, and I think
a little bit has to do with his personality and
how he's viewed, not only by the public, but how
people view him. I think in the football world, in
locker room stuff like that. Right, We've seen a number
of locker rooms that, Yeah, Russell Wilson's a nice guy,
But is he a leader? Is he one of the guys? Right?
Is he respected like one of the guys? I think
(34:57):
that's been debatable at certain places. There was a lot
of talk of that last year in Pittsburgh, Denver. You
didn't hear anybody there sticking up going, man, he really
got a raw deal there, right. You didn't really hear
about it in Seattle either, and he kind of forced
his way out of that situation. So I think between
that acting maybe like he's a Hall of Famer and
then playing like he's barely a starter in the NFL,
(35:20):
that's probably where we are right now. As far as
the criticism around Russell Wilson, it feels like.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Matthew Stafford is a bro and he's never been a
Pro Bowl quarterback or one time, never been an MVP, right,
but he won a Super Bowl, Yeah, and that feels
like that alone is going to get him into the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 7 (35:41):
Well, I think there's some different circumstances there where I'd go.
You know, Matthew Stafford for me, for a while, was
the only reason Detroit was ever in any conversations about
being in the playoffs at all. Right, he was almost
his own worst enemy in the fact that he was
so good. He made them eight to eight and they
might have gotten the playoffs or didn't but lost in
the first round or whatever, and people say, oh, look,
(36:02):
he couldn't get in the playoffs or he choked in
the playoffs, when it was like, no, they weren't really
a playoff team. They got there because he's so amazing.
So that's where I would stick up for him. He
was the football team there, and then you saw as
soon as he got with the team that could support
him at all, it was like, Boom, I'm gonna win
the Super Bowl. And Russell Wilson's I think, is a
little different than that, where Hey, some good years, certainly,
(36:24):
but we know the legion of Boom and that defense
and run game were the most important parts of that
football team early on in his career.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, but I can look at this and say that
Russ got with a team that was really good and
he won. He went to two Super Bowls, Whereas when
he's not with a good team, he still took Pittsburgh
to the playoffs.
Speaker 7 (36:41):
Yeah, he still took Pittsford the playoffs. But the passing
offense and everything around him has been the question, right,
And I don't think that's been the question around Matthew Stafford.
We are never like, I don't know if the passing
offense is gonna work with Matthew Stafford. We've gotten to
a point here where you've seen one of the greatest
offensive mines in the history of football. And Sean Payton
go through half a year ago it ain't gonna work.
(37:02):
It's not gonna work. We're gonna I'm gonna ask him
to take off the guarantees of his contract next year.
That's how much it's not gonna work. I'm gonna bench
him for Jared Stidham. So I think with all of that,
and then yeah, last year there was some moments, but
again he's limited in what he can do Dan right,
because he can't run and scramble anymore. He's not very
(37:24):
good playing within the pocket, and he doesn't really work
at whole offense. He's never surgical, as I would say.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
But if it's up a resume, Chris he had, Yes,
he built up a ten year career and whether you
value Pro Bowls or not.
Speaker 7 (37:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, I hear you, And I respect all
of that.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
I do.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
He had a lot of awesome years. There's no doubt
about that. And I'm not saying I'm right about the
Hall of Fame thing. That's just my opinion, and I'm
sure there's other people that are smart in football that
may be differ in that. So I understand the resume
and all that, but I also think within the resume resume,
the team he had and all that it was set
up so perfectly for him to look awesome, right, and
(38:06):
he obviously didn't like it there. He wanted to be
more of a guy like Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes
where everything was around him, and we're seeing that the
physical talents are not there of that like those guys
right there, and he can't do it.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Talking to Chris Sim's Pro Football Talk Live co host
the show that precedes hours on Peacock, you can see
him on Football Night in America. How long should we
wait for Kyler Murray?
Speaker 7 (38:32):
I think we've waited long enough. There's no longer, there's
no longer to wait. It's like, hey, dude, you gotta
make some plays. We got to win some football games.
We got to win some of these tough post games here. Yeah,
Kyler Murray is the guy that's floating in that area
of He's got some talent that makes you think he
could be a top ten quarterback or elite, but there's
(38:52):
other issues in his game that make him look real average.
And you saw the game last night, there's lots of
moments there where yeah, it is real, and you expect
him to make a few plays on the run that
he didn't make last night in some of those throws. So, yeah,
I'm a little disappointed in Kyler Murray. I expected more
out of him by this time of his career. And yeah,
he's getting to that point where if some results don't happen,
(39:14):
you know, they're gonna be looking for changes out there
in Arizona in the next year or two.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
And Marvin Harrison was a sure thing.
Speaker 7 (39:21):
Well he was, yeah to a lot. You know, I
knew he was really good. You know, you're talking to
one guy here that when I you know, I thought
it was a little overhyped coming out right. I mean again,
really good, And I know he can still be really good.
He's on the right path. The problem is is people
tried to make him like the greatest superstar ever. And
I was like, wait, I mean, there wasn't a ton
(39:43):
of separation in college. I don't see slants where he
went for eighty yards after Meanwhile, those guys we saw
at LSU Molik Neighbors and Brian Thomas Junior, who were
the guys I had at the top of Lewis that year.
I was going, they're running by everybody, They're leaving everybody
in the dust. Right, So I think all of that
has kind of played into this Marvin Harrison thing. Let alone,
their offense isn't great as well, so that doesn't lend
(40:06):
itself to great passing yards and stats either.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
How often does this happen? What happened to Cam Newton
with Tua? Because two is saying, Oh, you know, anybody
I guess can play quarterback and you know you could?
He like, how dare you criticize him? And I was
surprised that two has said that since we know that
you know, Cam had a pretty storied career, but you
(40:30):
didn't have that. But you're a great analyst. How often
do you get what do you know about the position?
Or how dare you critique me?
Speaker 7 (40:38):
Yeah? That's always I mean, you know, I haven't got
that from players and anything like that. I think, you know,
most people in the NFL. No, I'm pretty connected and
obsessed with the sport and study it like mad and
know what I'm talking about a little bit. Now, I
get that from fans and I see that on my
social media, like, oh, your career sucked? How could you
(40:58):
talk about this guy?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
You know?
Speaker 7 (41:00):
So I always hear that type of stuff that comes
with the job. That doesn't mean I'm not good at
evaluating players and knowing the game and understanding it that
way either. And I can talk it really good too.
So yeah, there's all that. And you know, again, one
of my themes of my year on my podcast at
all of that a little bit is, you know, is
(41:21):
to challenge some of these teams and what they've done
with these quarterback contracts. Hey, so it us being paid
like he's Lamar, like he's Josh Allen, like he's Patrick
Mahomes been. Sorry, team, I'm gonna blame you. I want
to see those results that I'm gonna blame that quarterback too.
I am. I don't know where we've gotten too this
mold that we're gonna pay the quarterback four times more
(41:42):
as much money than the best players on the football team,
even when the quarterbacks are middle of the road in
the NFL and nobody in football is gonna pay two
of fifty five million dollars a year. I mean, they
literally negotiated against themselves. So now they want to wonder
why they're in this spot. And when you make when
you make a statements that I can't do half the
things Josh Allen does. When you're getting ready to play
(42:03):
them and you're being paid just like him, And okay,
the rubber meets the road there. That doesn't make sense.
And I feel like we have a little of that
in the NFL right now, where there's four or five
guys that deserve to be paid like they are everybody else.
I want to go, it's a little crazy, and agents
and gms have fooled the rest of the world that
the quarterbacks are so much worth more money than everybody
(42:24):
else on the football team.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Should the Cowboys acknowledge Micah Parsons in a celebratory way
prior to the game?
Speaker 7 (42:36):
I mean, I'm old school. I don't give a damn
if they do, right, But at the same time, it
would probably be the classy thing to do to make
a little acknowledgment for one of the better players there
that they've had in recent history, who also, you know,
lefts in a little bit of a weird situation, right,
I mean just a little bit, just a little bit,
(42:58):
and we took under the you know, you know, below
the belt shots at them through the whole process and
trying to change the rules of the CBA. And we
don't want his agent to negotiate because he might know
what he's talking about in negotiation of the contracts. We'd
rather talk about it to the football player. So yeah,
do I think that would be the classy thing to do.
I would, But if they don't do it, I'm not
going to sit there and drag the Cowboys. He's only
(43:20):
been there a short period of time. This is not
like it's a Randy White or Ed too Tall Jones.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Finish this sentence. Daniel Jones is.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
Is a lot better than people realize, and it's one
of my favorite Well why because he's got all the
physical tools and the mentality to be good at quarterback.
You know the thing I always say, right jokingly, I'm like,
get and I've probably said it to you before. If
you're around crap all the time, you start to smell
like crap, and crap gets on you and then all
of a sudden, you don't look so good. Sat Quon
(43:52):
Barkley was a bust up with the New York Giants.
They should have never picked them the number two. And
then he goes to a team like the Eagles and
we go, is he the best running back I've ever
seen him?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
So?
Speaker 7 (44:01):
Yeah, the support system wasn't correct for Daniel Jones, let alone,
just the climate around him. You know, it's the New
York fans being so critical, playing for a coach who
didn't really draft him, right, and Brian Dayball and I
don't know if he was totally invested there. So now
you're seeing you put a little offense around him, You
give him a few answers, you protect him a little bit.
(44:22):
Oh my gosh, Daniel Jones can make a lot happen,
just like Sam Darnold, just like Baker Mayfield, just like
sa Quon Barkley. It's a team sport. You need some support.
You're not not everybody Superman.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Whis the most must win game of the weekend?
Speaker 7 (44:36):
Oh all right, so that's a good one. I do
look at the Broncos being one and two on Monday night, gone,
they better win that one against the Bengals, right, who
are not playing good football, who are miraculously two and
one even though they've been out played in every game.
I think the most must win is the Ravens Chiefs game.
I don't think there's any doubt about that. I still
think the Ravens are a really good football team. I mean,
(44:58):
if Derrick Henry doesn't fall ball Againstuffalo, they probably win.
If he doesn't fumble. The other night, it's going to
be a nail bier right between the Detroit Lions. So
I still look at them as one of the top
teams in football. The Chiefs, on the other hand, I
do not. I've been one all year that's kind of said,
this is not the year they're going to do it
in the AFC West, and it's been worse than I expected.
The receiver injuries have certainly been a big part of that.
(45:19):
But yeah, the Chiefs are a team right now that
I look at and I go it's not close. So
I'm not like, Ooh, I like this. If they get
this straight, watch out they're in trouble. To me a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Here, we don't teach tackling anymore, it feels like, but
we are teaching punching the ball out right right at
any point, and I don't want to be a buzzkill.
Does the NFL legislate a violent act of trying to
punch a ball out?
Speaker 7 (45:49):
Probably not, I don't think so. I don't think they'll
ever be enough there, and I think it just adds
too much to the excitement of the football game. I
think the NFL wants excitement, they want big plays, they
want turnovers, they want points and all that, and that's
a big part of it. And to your point, yeah,
we don't practice tackling as much anymore because of all
the rules and everything's just different to where you can't
(46:11):
hit the same But at the same point, the tackling
is also falling off because I can tell you that
defensive players are going, hey, when you get in there,
the coaches are going hold them up so Johnny can
come by and knock the ball out, and that leads
to bad talking tackling too. But no, I don't think
that's going anywhere here anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Paulie insists that I ask you this question about the
vikings in Sam Donald because nobody loves Sam Donald more
than Paulie. Right, will the Vikings regret moving on from
Sam Donald?
Speaker 7 (46:44):
Well, they're definitely in a spot right now where you
don't know where it's gonna go, right. I think that's
that Like with JJ McCarthy, the fact that he didn't
play his rookie year. Here we are year two. It
was a little shaky in the game of the half
that he did pull out right, and now we're and
now we're gonna wait another few weeks for his development.
(47:06):
And you go, oh, I don't know where this quarterback
situation is. Did it go for the rest of the year.
It might be a problem. They might really have to
manage it. Yeah, from that standpoint, they're gonna I think
they're gonna regret it this year, but I think the
long play, they will not regret it when it's all
said and done. I still believe in JJ McCarthy and
more of that. I just believe it a'd No, I
mean Kevin O'Connell and his ability to groom these quarterbacks
(47:27):
and make them, you know, pretty awesome on the field.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, I'm I'm all in on that. I just didn't
see that. JJ McCarthy, Oh my gosh, man. And yeah, yeah,
I hear you, and and I trust your judgment as much,
if not more so, than anybody. I just don't I
didn't see it at Michigan. He wasn't featured at Michigan. No,
you're right, that's the fair point.
Speaker 7 (47:47):
And you know that year coming out, I had them
five out of those six great quarterbacks that all went
in the first round, right, because of some of the
things you said, Right, there was a part of you
that goes, wait, I like that he has to play
NFL football where it's not just spread and easy throws,
and he's playing in Michigan where it's play action and
throw the ball down the field. But to your point, yeah,
I didn't like that we might go a quarter without
(48:09):
him even throwing the football. That's a little crazy. And
the thing I think you're seeing too that he has
to work on is he's only got one club in
the bag. He only has the driver, he only has
the fastball. We don't see any like flick flick of
the wrist throws any side arm and he you know,
laying it over the linebackers and touching it to the
second level to a tight end. That's where he has
(48:31):
to grow. To me, every throw he makes that's good
is really just a fastball hardball.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
And what he's doing with Justin Herbert, I don't know
if it's tangible that you see something that he's a
different quarterback. Yes, and I think Jim builds in almost
bumpers rails for Herbert that he's going to be successful.
But I don't know exactly what Jim is doing, but
(48:58):
it looks different. Well, he's an ex quarterback.
Speaker 7 (49:02):
He makes the quarterbacks feel like he's in the fight
with them, right like I'm out there playing with you,
I'm supporting you. I know it's not easy, and I
think that's always great for a quarterback because it's not
easy and not a lot of people could put themselves
in their shoes that way. And he also, I think,
is trying to change the culture there. And let's not
forget the Chargers. Chargering was a big thing, them screwing
up games, doing everything there. He's changed that aspect about
(49:25):
the football team, and within that, he's got to change
kind of the mindset of the quarterback who's leading the charge.
I think there's two things that I look at. One,
watch this Sunday. He gets mad at his teammates. Now
he yells a little bit. That's what I like to see.
The second thing is he's getting outside the pocket and
making plays out there. That was the only ERAa he
(49:46):
really lacked behind the great ones mahomes Lamar Josh Allen Burrow.
Right when the defense would win against those guys, those
guys still made a play and got a twenty yard game.
Where you go, man, that was the perfect defense, the
perfect pass rush. But they still made it happen, almost
imposing their will that way. I don't think Herbert was
like that, but you're seeing that this year, and he's
(50:06):
playing as good as anybody in the NFL right now
a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Good appearance, have a good weekend. Great to talk to
you again, Chris, Thank you, thanks a lot man, thank you.
That's Chris Sims.
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio Football.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Last night, Seahawks hold off the Cardinals and Seattle now
three and one on the year, and the questions with
the Cardinals remain whether it's Kyler Murray well the overall organization.
Marvin Harrison Junior the third did have a touchdown reception
and the Cardinals made it interesting. But Seattle at the
buzzer wins that one and now improves to three and one.
(00:28):
Busy schedule coming up this weekend. The Saints are fifteen
and a half point underdogs at the Buffalo Bills. You
don't get a number that big, you know. The NFL
prides itself on parody that maybe you'll get upwards of seven, eight,
nine point spread. But I saw that with the Saints
(00:48):
fifteen and a half point underdogs in Buffalo. There's a
game coming up this weekend where the point spread has
kind of fluctuated a little bit. I find this a
fascinating game. It's not a game that people are talking about.
It's a college game. If you've got so we have
LSU and Ole Miss, we have Oregon, Penn State, Alabama
(01:09):
and Georgia. Those are all great games, great matchups. But
the game that I find the most interesting is Ohio
State and Washington because this started out ten and a
half for Ohio State giving ten and a half. Now
it's down to seven and a half in some places.
(01:31):
Something's going on here now. Washington has a good offense.
We haven't seen too much from Ohio State since the
opening win against Texas. You're on the road, and I
find this one a fascinating game. But we'll talk about
some of the other matchups throughout the show eight seven
to seven to three. DP Show operator Tyler sitting by.
He'll take your phone calls. Email address DP at Danpatrick
(01:53):
dot com, Twitter handle at DP show. The Ryder Cup
is underway and Team USA is getting roughed up early,
and we'll keep an eye on that as well. Chris
Simms from Football Night in America will stop by coming
up next hour, seeing what's poll question you're going to
go with today, At least for the first hour.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I think we've got two of them here for you
for the first hour. From Paul NFL franchise that feels
least competitive year to year.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Is this Recncy bias here with the Arizona Cardinals.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
A little bit it's like a feel when you watch
a team or a franchise year to year, they just
feel like they're going to disappoint. And the Cardinals are
possibly a one seed.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Okay, Yeah, they tend to find the banana peal. Now
they've had some hot starts, you know where, first half
of the season, and then all of a sudden they
cooled off. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't know if I if I agree about that
on the Cardinals, because they there's always a little bit
of Man, if they could figure this out though, if
Kyler American figure this out, if Man they get they
just get a superstar wide receiver, maybe they could figure that.
There's always a little bit like man, they're like, they're
right there about being super competitive and then it just
doesn't work. They're not the Browns.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Would you well, okay, would you rather be a Cardinal
fan or a Browns fan? Cardinals fan?
Speaker 5 (03:14):
All day?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
All right, godd, I think I'd.
Speaker 6 (03:17):
Rather be a Browns fan because you got the dog
pound and people who look genuinely passionate about their team. Arizona,
they're in the sun and the desert. I don't know,
you know, they took shot to the Stateum I don'tso
really see that Arizona sports fan crazy passion that i'd
want to be surrounded by at the stadium.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, sun and desert don't impact the game, because no.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
But like the there's other things to do. When you're enjoying
the sunshine, you're kind of mellow. You don't hear about
the crazy Arizona fans, but you do hear about the dog.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Fan, Marvin Cardinal fan or Browns fan.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Rather be a Cardinals fan, all right, Paul, this is
a tough one.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
The Cardinals have made the postseason six times in the
past forty years.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That's a horrible percentage. Yeah, I'd rather be a Browns fan.
I'm gonna go Browns fan. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
I think Fritzy had a point. They feel more into football. Yeah,
there's passion there as a franchise. Yes, not the fan base.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm not big on. Well, you know, I thought the whole.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Point of this discussion that Todd just had was about
the fan base.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I would say more so like the ownership. They're both
bad ownerships. But the Cardinals have a history of not investing. Well,
we keep waiting for Kyler Murray.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I don't know what we're expecting to see Marvin Harrison.
You know, Herbie was talking about this last night. This
was a big topic, and rightfully so, this was a
can't miss. Your dad's a Hall of Famer, and you
look to be bigger and better and stronger and faster,
and it hasn't happened. Now. His numbers his rookie year
weren't bad, but he's supposed to be great. And he
(04:47):
stopped on a route that led to an interception. He
had a big drop. Now I did have a really
good touchdown reception, but you're supposed to have these things.
You're supposed to be great. And I maybe because you're
at Ohio State, everything is open. Don't have to worry
about here in footsteps. But this is a standalone game.
(05:07):
And I said this would be a topic and a
topic after the game depending on how well he played
a standalone game. And Marvin Harrison maybe that's the first
time you've seen him play. Talent's there, Kyler Murray. What
did he get sacked seven times last time and last
night six times last night?
Speaker 7 (05:27):
I mean, and.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
That's on the quarterback as well. That's not just the
offensive line. That is quarterback trying to do maybe too much.
You find a lot of these quarterbacks that you know,
that's where's it's kind of an optical illusion, where, man,
how did that guy? How did Cato Williams get sacked
sixty eight times? Isn't he athletic? Lamar Jackson got sacked
what seven times? The other night? Well, they're trying to
(05:51):
keep a play alive too long, and sometimes you know
that athleticism comes back to haunt you.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
But for the.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Cardinals in that division, you know, because the Niners are undefeated,
the Rams are going to be there in the playoffs.
And Seattle's three and one, so the margin for air
and you haven't beaten Seattle since twenty twenty one. But
it's just not an inspiring franchise there. What's the other
(06:18):
poll question? Seton?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
The other one we got here is the Vikings letting
Sam Donald leave was the right decision at the time
or will come back to haunt them?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, it's the right decision. We saw when you need
Sam Darnald to be great. What happened those last two
games of the regular season and postseason didn't go well.
Do I think he's a bridge quarterback in Seattle? I do,
And it might just be a one year deal. I mean,
Jalen Milroe could be their starting quarterback, but I don't
(06:51):
think there's And Sam was drafted probably too high or
too high to go to a bad team when he
went to the Jets. He had a really good career
at USC, but you know, he got kicked around in
a couple other spots. You know, this isn't a I
didn't do well in one place and now I go
(07:11):
to another place, and now I have this epiphany. He
had stops along the way. Do I think he's capable
of leading them to the playoffs. I do, but I
don't look at him the way I look at, you know,
some of these other franchise quarterbacks. And it's probably it's
it says three year deal, it's really a one year deal.
And I think the Vikings they made, you know, they
(07:35):
made that decision when they drafted JJ McCarthy that they
were moving on from him, just like they moved on
from Kirk Cousins. And they're all in on JJ McCarthy. Now,
unless JJ McCarthy is going to be injury prone his
entire career, then I don't Minnesota made the right decision.
By all accounts, they made the right decision and you
(07:55):
get that rookie contract with JJ McCarthy. He just hasked
to stay healthy. Do I think he should be a
better quarterback than Sam Doneld, Yes, but if Sam can
kind of just not make mistakes. And last night was
just hey, just go out there, get a touchdown, touchdown,
a couple of touchdowns, no interceptions, and maintain manage a game.
(08:18):
That's all. So we'll get to your phone calls coming up.
Here is the This is one of those games last
night where you didn't know who the coaches were, or
you might not know who the coaches were. So when
Jonathan Gannon is being interviewed at halftime and they're booing
him and he hung in there, and who was doing
(08:42):
the sideline Lizy hartin, Yes, Hey, kudos to you because
you brought up the booze that were happening in the
moment there to the coach. They're booing wonderful. But Jonathan
Gannon and then Seattle's head coach is Mike McDonald, and
Mike McDonald and he talked about how the Seahawks executed
(09:06):
late in the game to win for us.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
It was just like, all right, hey, look we're not
on you know, we're identifying the two minute situation, and
Ad and the guys are talking to the guys on
the bench and they're ready to go to overtime. They're
talking about our overtime plan. It was just kind of like, hey,
what's what's next. Clint called some great plays. We had
a great protection that's in that series. You're fortunate with
the kick being you know, not in the landing zone.
(09:29):
And then you know, Sam and Jacks were just whites
out and just a great job overall.
Speaker 7 (09:34):
Brian did a great job.
Speaker 8 (09:35):
Of managing the managing the clock, and this is this
is how we roll.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Okay, So that's Mike McDonald, not McDaniel and Jonathan Gannon.
Prity goes Jonathan Gannon. Was he a backup quarterback somewhere
with Rich I have?
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Mike McDonald had a farm? Yeah, yeah, Oh and what's
going on there?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, Mike Glennon Terry Gannon, Like, you know, I don't
know what's going on here, but standalone game and therefore,
everybody has an opinion on both of these teams from
last night. We will get to your phone calls coming up.
The topic is not leaving anytime soon, and that is
Russell Wilson junior third. Is he a Hall of Famer
(10:19):
playing himself out of the Hall of Fame? Tony Gonzalez,
hall of Famer, came down hard on Russell Wilson last night.
Richard Sherman, his former teammate, came down hard on Russell
Wilson as well. We'll talk about that, but it's open
season on Russell Wilson. It feels like I hope he
(10:39):
gets an opportunity to play for the Bengals. I don't
know if it'll happen. I don't know if the Bengals
are interested. I know he's saying all the right things,
but he always says all the right things. It feels
like the only time in his career he didn't say
what you thought he was going to say was when
he came on this show and said he wanted out
of Seattle. That's it. Maybe needs the same say the
(11:02):
same thing in New York. You know what, I don't
want to be looking over Jackson's shoulder. We have Jamis here.
Can I go and try to salvage the back end
of my career? Can I go play for the Bengals
for a year. I don't know if it'll happen. But
if I'm the Bengals, I'd certainly entertain that, but will
play some of the comments that Tony Gonzalez and Richard
(11:24):
Sherman had, And I know Richard Sherman doesn't like Russell Wilson.
I wish that he would have said that up front. Look,
I don't have a good relationship or I didn't like
him when he was a teammate, like, because you got
to factor that in. You know, his opinion as a
player now as an analyst is a little bit cloudy
(11:44):
because he didn't like Russell Wilson. A lot of players
on Seattle didn't like Russ. They thought he was phony.
But he helped you get a Super Bowl ring. Now
you can say you helped him, absolutely, But I think
you got to do a little deeper dive just to
be fair to Russ in what he's done or what
he did. It's easy to look at him now and
(12:04):
say he's washed, and he might be.
Speaker 9 (12:07):
Yes, Marvin, it might be unfair, But do you think
they look at him maybe like a Brad Johnson, maybe
a Trent Deal for somebody that a Jim McMahon. We
were led by a great defense and you were just
a quarterback on the team. It's not like you were
a great quarterback. We won that Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Look, he played for a great defense. Nobody's denying that.
But sometimes we forget. Did Joe Montana have great players
on his team?
Speaker 5 (12:30):
I think so?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Okay, did Matthew Stafford have one of the greatest defensive
players of all time on his team when he won
the Super Bowl? Did he have you know, an upper
echelon head coach, maybe the best coach in the NFL
right now? Did he have Cooper cup Obj was on
that team? Like, if we're going to start bringing in, well,
(12:51):
how much talent did that guy have? How much talent
did that guy have? Like, you got to be fair,
and I don't know that people are being fair to
Russell Wilson. Yes, Marvin, but.
Speaker 9 (13:01):
I was just saying this, Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas
and those guys from Lesion to Boom think that about
russ that that you know, he was just a quarterback.
It's not like he was leading the charge. This team
was led with a great defense and you just happen
to be the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I don't think he's Trent Dilfer. Oh, I mean either
not Joe Flacco. I think he got to be fair too,
and I think I think we forget you know what,
let me take a break. We'll bring back the sound
from last night. I was surprised that this was a
topic last night, but I guess with Seattle on there
(13:38):
and you know the memories of Russell Wilson.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show week days at nine am Eastern six am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 10 (13:51):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get.
Speaker 11 (14:00):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in
our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber lit in me.
Speaker 10 (14:14):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 11 (14:18):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but We're also gonna talk
life and relationships, and if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 10 (14:32):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
A little harder.
Speaker 10 (14:40):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 11 (14:42):
There you go, over Promising, and remember you could see
it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Two teams double digit underdogs in the NFL got the
Saints getting fifteen and a half. In Buffalo the Browns
against the Lions. The Browns are getting ten age seven
to seven three DP show email address Dpadanpatrick dot com,
Twitter handle at DP show. If you bailed after three
quarters last night, you probably thought Marvin Harrison Junior is
(15:15):
not very good or not going to have a good night.
He was good in the fourth quarter. I'm not sure
what you're going to get out of him, and once
again his numbers weren't pedestrian last year. It's just I
thought he was one hundred catch guy. Thought he was
a ten touchdown guy. I thought he was a twelve
hundred yard guy. I'm waiting for him to be dominant.
(15:35):
And I don't know if it's going to happen in Arizona.
I don't know if it will happen with Kyler Murray,
but that certainly was a topic last night. We'll get
a couple of phone calls here, then we'll dive into
the topic that continues to linger, and that is Russell Wilson.
Should he retire? Is he a Hall of Famer? A
couple of guys weighed in on that last night, Buddha
(15:58):
and San Francisco. Hi, Buddha, come back.
Speaker 12 (16:02):
No buddy, happy to meet Friday boys live every day
in the fast lane. Fritzy, let's go, Baby, let's go Buddha. Well,
then I got to say after Wednesday, that changed my
whole driving perspective forever. I I didn't get a chance
(16:22):
of calling with my shirt idea, but I wanted to
still throw it in fast and Fritziest.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Thank you, Buddha. Yeah, we're trying to come up with
a T shirt by the end of the show and
they'll be available for the just for the weekend there.
Colby in California, Hi Colby, but.
Speaker 12 (16:44):
Hey, hey, I had a I had two things, one the.
Speaker 7 (16:52):
Yes or all right.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I got a bad connection there, Colby, Uh Scott and
Saint Paul Hi Scott.
Speaker 13 (17:00):
Dan morning Fella's first time long time five to seven,
relatively solid one sixty five.
Speaker 7 (17:09):
Uh, thank you. It occurred to.
Speaker 13 (17:12):
Me over the last two days, and especially listening yesterday
about the great passing lane controversy.
Speaker 14 (17:20):
That for someone who is not on the bone of
section row feat for years now that Todd was having
such a hard time grasping the idea of slow lane,
cruising lane passing lane.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Thank you, scoinn. Does that help you, ton?
Speaker 6 (17:46):
It doesn't because it's slow lane, cruising lane fast lane,
because many people use the left lane, as I said
the last couple of days, not as a way to
pass other cars, but to just go very fast for
long periods of time in the left lane.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Christian Syracuse joins us Hi, Chris, Hey.
Speaker 15 (18:01):
Thanks Tan heay a question for you and on the
T shirt there's no way to be passole. But I
was thinking it's a little wordy, but hey, Passol Toddler aboard.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So back off.
Speaker 15 (18:12):
Earlier in the week, the Yankees caught some grief for
their celebration when they clinched the wild card, and I
don't know for me. If Chico bail Bonds had no
problem with Tanner Boyle and the Boys and knocking back
a couple of beers after their big game, I have
no problem with it.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, but nobody expected Bad News Bears to do anything.
The Yankees are the Yankees. No celebrate a wild card birth,
You're the Yankees.
Speaker 15 (18:37):
My question is Dan, two weeks ago, nobody thought that
the Yankees said a shot at the division, and this weekend,
if they win the division, do they go hair the
dog and celebrate again.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I'm fine with them celebrating the division and it might
change the MVP if Aaron Judge helps lead the Yankees
to win the division, just like cal cal Rawly, according
to DraftKings, is your favorite to win the MVP in
the American League. And it's a great story. I wonder
(19:09):
if Major League Baseball is going to do cut Ins.
Let's say he gets to sixty two home runs. Are
they going to do what they did with Aaron Judge,
Because when Aaron Judge was going to pass Roger Maris.
They were, you know, every at bat it felt like,
are they going to do that? Is the commissioner going
to be going to Seattle's games this weekend if he
(19:31):
happens to pass Aaron Judge on the all time list?
All right, So here's this story. And we've talked about
Russell Wilson before. He's been was a frequent guest on
this show for many many many years, many many times,
mostly when he was in Seattle, but he's fallen off
(19:52):
when he went to Denver. Now, the numbers in Denver
weren't terrible. I think his last year there was twenty
six touchdowns, eight interceptions. There's a lot of quarterbacks who
would sign up for that, a lot of teams who
would sign up for that. But given what they gave
up to get him, Russ was not going to live
up to that and the contract that he signed, he
was not going to live up to them. And you
(20:14):
had Sean Payton who did not want Russell Wilson. He got,
you know, to Pittsburgh, got them to the playoffs, but
you know they were going to move on from him
because they had inside track with Aaron Rodgers. It's just
he has not been the right guy at the right
time where he was in Seattle, and he was there
(20:35):
rookie contract third round pick Pete Carroll saw enough in
him that he said, hey, you're going to be my starter.
You had a veteran team, certainly defensively, you had a
couple of offensive weapons, certainly Marshawn Lynch. You had a
couple of really good offensive linemen there. And Russ did
what you would want your quarterback to do in that situation,
(20:56):
not lose games, occasionally have some magic there, won a
Super Bowl, nearly one another Super Bowl, and he's gone
to ten Pro Bowls. Now you can say, was he
an alternate last year for the Pro Bowl? Now, I
don't know when's the last time he was a Pro
Bowl quarterback if we could check on that.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah, a true Pro Bowl quarterback twenty twenty one in Seattle.
He was an alternate last year. Last year he had
sixteen touchdowns and five picks.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Okay, the Pro Bowl is not what it once was,
but that's only been over the last couple of years.
Let's say Russ has nine legitimate Pro Bowls, Okay, nine
in Seattle, nine in like eleven years something like that.
That's pretty impressive, and you won a super Bowl. I
think because he is viewed as losing a super Bowl,
(21:45):
he threw the past you lost to super Bowl. That
brings him down a notch. He did more for Seattle
that year than Peyton did the year in Denver when
they won a Super Bowl, but Peyton's given credit for
two super Bowls there. Last night, Tony Gonzalez was asked
(22:05):
by Carrissa Thompson about Russell Wilson.
Speaker 9 (22:10):
Do you think we've seen the last of Russell Wilson?
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Honest, I hope we have.
Speaker 16 (22:14):
And I say that because just looking at him and
his career, his legacy, like you talked about, if ever
there was somebody who played himself out of the Hall.
Speaker 7 (22:24):
Of Fame, it's Russell Wilson.
Speaker 16 (22:26):
Well, and I say that because look at what he's
what's happened ever since he left Seattle. When he was
in seat, he was the man, he was making these
good plays. He won a Super w with the two
of them. But as soon as he left there, he
went the Denverse on that big old deal. They paid
him thirty nine million dollars to leave.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
He goes the Pittsburgh plays there.
Speaker 16 (22:40):
One year, he's out of there, and now he goes
here and has three games. I just don't know if
it's gonna get any better. And I don't want to
see him on a sideline holding a clipboard.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Okay, here is Richard Sherman, former teammate of Russell Wilson.
Speaker 17 (22:54):
I think you got to judge his career off. When
the Legion of Boom was there. He had a legendary defense,
an all time defense, and how much success he had,
and then without that legendary defense, the success he had.
Without that legendary defense, he's been four and eleven, seven
and eight on in three. To start with the Giants,
he was a winning football player in Seattle, and people said, hey,
winning his football player, all this good stuff, all these accolades,
(23:16):
and now you get to go on your own and
you get to proved, Hey, I'm this great quarterback, I'm
this guy that's going to be dominant, and it just
hasn't worked.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Out that way.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Okay, this is revisionist history. The legion of Boom went
away when Russ was twenty seven. You can point towards
the last three years. How about we be fair to
what he did in Seattle, because that's what this is about.
And once you're in, aren't you in in the Hall
of Fame Unless there's a scandal. It doesn't feel like
(23:47):
you're going to play your way out of it. Now.
Have I brought up this question? Absolutely to be fair
to the topic, I have said, is he playing his
way out of it? My job is to ask the question.
Your opinion could be, of course not. But I think
you gotta be careful with what Russ did in Seattle
after the Lege in the boom and because of Russ's contract,
you were able to keep players a little bit longer
(24:09):
because he was on that rookie deal.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, Pully, you're exactly right on the defense in Seattle
when Russ was there, Russell Wilson's first five years in Seattle,
they had a top three defense every year. His last
five years in Seattle, they didn't have a top ten
defense in any of those seasons.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, there's two different eras. But I think you got
to be fair to him, and I don't think people
are now. Is he different? Is he odd? Yes? But
he was still great in Seattle. He did what you
want a quarterback to do. What do you need me
to do. Now, how many times did we watch a
Seattle game and the score would be like seventeen to fifteen,
(24:48):
and then Pete Carroll would go, I don't know, Russ
pull this out, and he would he had that one pass,
that one pass it's and once again the pass was
on the numbers. You know, you just had Malcolm Butler,
who made one of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history,
football history.
Speaker 9 (25:09):
Yes, Maarman, did we consider Russell Wilson a First Battle
Hall of Famer at the end of his reign in Seattle?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
No, but there are quarterbacks who have put up less
numbers than him. Eli's regular season is not good at all.
It is is average. His record is five hundred. That's average.
He won two incredible Super Bowls. He was MVP, even
(25:39):
though on one of those the defensive line should have
been mvpick. But he got two of those and had
two incredible runs. We're trying to bring Eli into the
Russell conversation or vice versa. Eli stands on his own.
It shouldn't be about Russell Wilson, and Russell shouldn't be
about Eli Manning. But that's it feels like that's that's
(26:03):
the conversation.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Now, yes, yeah, because if that pick doesn't happen, they're
the exact scene.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Well, no, Russ is a would be considered a far,
in my opinion, far better quarterback than Eli.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah, but if for us has that second ring, then
he's in no questions, absolutely, that's the comparison ELI getting
that second ring and beating the Patriots.
Speaker 7 (26:22):
That gets him in for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
No problem. And Eli made the Pro Bowl four times
and he led the league and interceptions a couple of
times three times. I mean, I don't have any problem
with Eli being a Hall of Famer. He's going to
be you know his name. You beat Belichick and Brady twice. Okay,
(26:46):
played a long time, he was durable. He played in
over two hundred consecutive games. But Russ is a Hall
of Famer. I know he's tailed off here. He's playing
for a bad team Pittsburgh. They went to the playoffs Denver,
and that was a bad move by Denver, and Sean
(27:06):
Payton quickly realized that, Yeah, PAULI the.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Comp on this is almost like an actor, like a
guy like ne Liam Neeson was once considered one of
the top actors in the world, and like he was
in the most serious movies. He won awards. Then he
kind of changed directions at the end of the career
and it was different. It's not the same stuff. It's
like just because an actor or even a musician changes
what they do in the back half of their career,
it doesn't take away from the first half. And it's
(27:33):
almost like these guys last night were looking in through
the lens of Russell Wilson as a giant and they
can't see the past the ten years in Seattle.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, And I mean there's different comps here if you're
trying to do that. I mean, is he a Ben
Roethlisberger kind of quarterback?
Speaker 7 (27:49):
Here?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Roethlisberger was carried to that first Super Bowl and Jerome
Bettis and Heinz Board have talked about that, how he
was scared to death in that first Super Bowl. But
you know he put up great numbers here. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I think it's tough to ask a former teammate who
played on the defense to be impartial about certain conversations
because in his mind, I mean, Richard Sherman's reaction to
that interception is almost as famous as the play itself, right,
And he's like, no, man, because if it wasn't for that, dude,
(28:26):
we would have won. The defense is what carried us
all these years. We're the ones that did this. And
the whole story the whole time was yeah, Legion of
Boom was whatever. But now let Russ cook, what about
russ Man, We go take the training wheels off Russ
let him go do what he think. And meanwhile, you know,
people like Richard Sherman are like, no, dude, like we
carried that dude, I kinda. I think it's difficult to
(28:48):
ask people who are in the situation to not have
an opinion, a strong opinion about it.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Be fair, rich the Legion of Boom has gotten a
ton of credit, a ton of credit. Nobody is bypassing
them and saying they weren't impactful. One of the great
secondaries we have ever seen in the NFL. So they've
gotten their flowers here and you got Earl Thomas and
Richard Sherman, who are probably Hall of famers. Cam Chancellor
was wonderful. Here's the last five years in Seattle for
(29:16):
Russell Wilson touchdowns and interceptions thirty four and eleven, thirty
five and seven, thirty one and five, forty and thirteen
and twenty five and six. Only Aaron Rodgers was better
over that period touchdown to interception ratio. I think you
(29:41):
look at today and you're not being fair to what
Russ was without the legion of boom, because the legion
of boom wasn't there after he was twenty seven, he's
thirty six now.
Speaker 9 (29:53):
Yes, Mark, going back to Roethlisberger, the same point that
you made with Eli, Ben Roethlisberger became a Hall of
Famer because of a unbelievable Super Bowl against the Cardinals.
And I think that's the big distinction, is the one
super Bowl versus the two Super Bowls with Eli and Ben.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
But nobody says, boy, the Steelers had an unbelievable defense,
I mean, right.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
And James Harrison had one of the best.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yes, yes, James Harrison's interception at the end of the
first half.
Speaker 9 (30:23):
But I think Ben Roethlisberger had that unbelievable pass that
how many people can make.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Okay, he had an unbelievable pass that was an unbelievable
two minute drill. Absolutely, I mean, Ben's a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
I just.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
I'm surprised that you know the tail end. What if
Russ started his career right now, the way he's ending
it and then flipped it around.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
He's in like Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yes, we're like, oh my god, this guy's unbelievable. But
we look at the tail end and mean, you know
when we see Willie's fallen down in center field as
a met well, yeah, do I remember it? Yes, But
I also remember might have been the greatest talent I
ever saw in a baseball field. Yeah, Pauling.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
The two years that Ben Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl
with the Steelers, they had the third ranked defense in
the league and the first ranked defense.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
In the league.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, but nobody brings that up, no context. No, that's
all I think Richard needs to at least say, hey,
I don't have the best relationship with Russ. Maybe I
can't be impartial here. Tony Gonzalez can say whatever he wants.
I mean, these are their opinions, and they played the game,
and you know you had Richard who played with Ross.
I understand that. Let's just remember the numbers here and
(31:41):
how the team performed.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Yeah, if you look at say like twenty twelve, the
Seahawks averaged about twenty five points a game on offense
and gave up fifteen points. If you go ten years later,
well not quite ten years later, but if you go
to say twenty nineteen, they were averaging twenty five points
a game still on offense, giving up twenty five points
a game on defense. I mean, that's like the whole
(32:03):
story just based on that. To me, Russell Wilson and
that offense stayed exactly the same through his entire tenure there.
The only difference was the defense started giving up too
many points for him to overcome.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Yeah, Paul, if you go back to the Super Bowl
Patriots versus Seattle, the Luminaries that Russell Wilson was throwing to,
Chris Matthews, Ricardo Lockette, Jermaine Curse, Doug Baldwin and Brian
Walters and Gronkowski and Edlman were on the other side.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And Brady Yeah, yeah, maybe you heard of him. Yeah,
it's an interesting topic. I just think it's easy to
dismiss Russ now and forget about what he did before. Yes, Martan, if.
Speaker 9 (32:43):
Russe Wilson had an MVP award, would this not even
be a discussion, Because I think the big difference is
when we say, like Peyton Manning, he didn't have a
great ending in Denver, but he had MVP awards.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
Would that be a big difference?
Speaker 9 (32:55):
Also because Pro Bowls might be Pro Bowls versus all
pros are a different stratosphere.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, if you look at super Bowls and super Bowl
MVPs for quarterbacks, I mean that's our regular season MVPs. Yes,
that's probably the category that you use. You add that
up and that I mean look at Brady. The number
of super Bowl wins, the number of super Bowl MVPs.
(33:21):
I don't know how many times he was a regular
season MVP, but it's probably the total is fifteen of
MVP super Bowl and regular season MVP. That's that dwarfs everybody.
That's double what Peyton. Peyton had what five MVPs he
had two Super Bowls.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 2 (33:53):
He's Chris Sims, Pro Football Talk Live co host, also
his podcast Unbuttoned and a contribut or too Football Night
in America. Where is this dislike discrediting, hatred or whatever
it might be? With Russell Wilson coming from that. Now
it's a topic is he playing his way out of
(34:14):
the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 7 (34:16):
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, first off, I don't
think I had him in the Hall of Fame anyways,
So I think that's still a debatable topic there a
little bit, all right, NFL legend, right, one of the
better quarterbacks of our era for sure, but hall of Fame.
I'm not really ready to say that about Russell Wilson. Now.
The criticism, you know, again, I think a lot of
(34:37):
it has to do with his play, and I think
a little bit has to do with his personality and
how he's viewed, not only by the public, but how
people view him. I think in the football world, in
locker room stuff like that. Right, We've seen a number
of locker rooms that, Yeah, Russell Wilson's a nice guy,
But is he a leader? Is he one of the guys? Right?
Is he respected like one of the guys? I think
(34:57):
that's been debatable at certain places. There was a lot
of talk of that last year in Pittsburgh, Denver. You
didn't hear anybody there sticking up going, man, he really
got a raw deal there, right. You didn't really hear
about it in Seattle either, and he kind of forced
his way out of that situation. So I think between
that acting maybe like he's a Hall of Famer and
then playing like he's barely a starter in the NFL,
(35:20):
that's probably where we are right now. As far as
the criticism around Russell Wilson, it feels like.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Matthew Stafford is a bro and he's never been a
Pro Bowl quarterback or one time, never been an MVP, right,
but he won a Super Bowl, Yeah, and that feels
like that alone is going to get him into the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 7 (35:41):
Well, I think there's some different circumstances there where I'd go.
You know, Matthew Stafford for me, for a while, was
the only reason Detroit was ever in any conversations about
being in the playoffs at all. Right, he was almost
his own worst enemy in the fact that he was
so good. He made them eight to eight and they
might have gotten the playoffs or didn't but lost in
the first round or whatever, and people say, oh, look,
(36:02):
he couldn't get in the playoffs or he choked in
the playoffs, when it was like, no, they weren't really
a playoff team. They got there because he's so amazing.
So that's where I would stick up for him. He
was the football team there, and then you saw as
soon as he got with the team that could support
him at all, it was like, Boom, I'm gonna win
the Super Bowl. And Russell Wilson's I think, is a
little different than that, where Hey, some good years, certainly,
(36:24):
but we know the legion of Boom and that defense
and run game were the most important parts of that
football team early on in his career.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, but I can look at this and say that
Russ got with a team that was really good and
he won. He went to two Super Bowls, Whereas when
he's not with a good team, he still took Pittsburgh
to the playoffs.
Speaker 7 (36:41):
Yeah, he still took Pittsford the playoffs. But the passing
offense and everything around him has been the question, right,
And I don't think that's been the question around Matthew Stafford.
We are never like, I don't know if the passing
offense is gonna work with Matthew Stafford. We've gotten to
a point here where you've seen one of the greatest
offensive mines in the history of football. And Sean Payton
go through half a year ago it ain't gonna work.
(37:02):
It's not gonna work. We're gonna I'm gonna ask him
to take off the guarantees of his contract next year.
That's how much it's not gonna work. I'm gonna bench
him for Jared Stidham. So I think with all of that,
and then yeah, last year there was some moments, but
again he's limited in what he can do Dan right,
because he can't run and scramble anymore. He's not very
(37:24):
good playing within the pocket, and he doesn't really work
at whole offense. He's never surgical, as I would say.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
But if it's up a resume, Chris he had, Yes,
he built up a ten year career and whether you
value Pro Bowls or not.
Speaker 7 (37:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, I hear you, And I respect all
of that.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
I do.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
He had a lot of awesome years. There's no doubt
about that. And I'm not saying I'm right about the
Hall of Fame thing. That's just my opinion, and I'm
sure there's other people that are smart in football that
may be differ in that. So I understand the resume
and all that, but I also think within the resume resume,
the team he had and all that it was set
up so perfectly for him to look awesome, right, and
(38:06):
he obviously didn't like it there. He wanted to be
more of a guy like Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes
where everything was around him, and we're seeing that the
physical talents are not there of that like those guys
right there, and he can't do it.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Talking to Chris Sim's Pro Football Talk Live co host
the show that precedes hours on Peacock, you can see
him on Football Night in America. How long should we
wait for Kyler Murray?
Speaker 7 (38:32):
I think we've waited long enough. There's no longer, there's
no longer to wait. It's like, hey, dude, you gotta
make some plays. We got to win some football games.
We got to win some of these tough post games here. Yeah,
Kyler Murray is the guy that's floating in that area
of He's got some talent that makes you think he
could be a top ten quarterback or elite, but there's
(38:52):
other issues in his game that make him look real average.
And you saw the game last night, there's lots of
moments there where yeah, it is real, and you expect
him to make a few plays on the run that
he didn't make last night in some of those throws. So, yeah,
I'm a little disappointed in Kyler Murray. I expected more
out of him by this time of his career. And yeah,
he's getting to that point where if some results don't happen,
(39:14):
you know, they're gonna be looking for changes out there
in Arizona in the next year or two.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
And Marvin Harrison was a sure thing.
Speaker 7 (39:21):
Well he was, yeah to a lot. You know, I
knew he was really good. You know, you're talking to
one guy here that when I you know, I thought
it was a little overhyped coming out right. I mean again,
really good, And I know he can still be really good.
He's on the right path. The problem is is people
tried to make him like the greatest superstar ever. And
I was like, wait, I mean, there wasn't a ton
(39:43):
of separation in college. I don't see slants where he
went for eighty yards after Meanwhile, those guys we saw
at LSU Molik Neighbors and Brian Thomas Junior, who were
the guys I had at the top of Lewis that year.
I was going, they're running by everybody, They're leaving everybody
in the dust. Right, So I think all of that
has kind of played into this Marvin Harrison thing. Let alone,
their offense isn't great as well, so that doesn't lend
(40:06):
itself to great passing yards and stats either.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
How often does this happen? What happened to Cam Newton
with Tua? Because two is saying, Oh, you know, anybody
I guess can play quarterback and you know you could?
He like, how dare you criticize him? And I was
surprised that two has said that since we know that
you know, Cam had a pretty storied career, but you
(40:30):
didn't have that. But you're a great analyst. How often
do you get what do you know about the position?
Or how dare you critique me?
Speaker 7 (40:38):
Yeah? That's always I mean, you know, I haven't got
that from players and anything like that. I think, you know,
most people in the NFL. No, I'm pretty connected and
obsessed with the sport and study it like mad and
know what I'm talking about a little bit. Now, I
get that from fans and I see that on my
social media, like, oh, your career sucked? How could you
(40:58):
talk about this guy?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
You know?
Speaker 7 (41:00):
So I always hear that type of stuff that comes
with the job. That doesn't mean I'm not good at
evaluating players and knowing the game and understanding it that
way either. And I can talk it really good too.
So yeah, there's all that. And you know, again, one
of my themes of my year on my podcast at
all of that a little bit is, you know, is
(41:21):
to challenge some of these teams and what they've done
with these quarterback contracts. Hey, so it us being paid
like he's Lamar, like he's Josh Allen, like he's Patrick
Mahomes been. Sorry, team, I'm gonna blame you. I want
to see those results that I'm gonna blame that quarterback too.
I am. I don't know where we've gotten too this
mold that we're gonna pay the quarterback four times more
(41:42):
as much money than the best players on the football team,
even when the quarterbacks are middle of the road in
the NFL and nobody in football is gonna pay two
of fifty five million dollars a year. I mean, they
literally negotiated against themselves. So now they want to wonder
why they're in this spot. And when you make when
you make a statements that I can't do half the
things Josh Allen does. When you're getting ready to play
(42:03):
them and you're being paid just like him, And okay,
the rubber meets the road there. That doesn't make sense.
And I feel like we have a little of that
in the NFL right now, where there's four or five
guys that deserve to be paid like they are everybody else.
I want to go, it's a little crazy, and agents
and gms have fooled the rest of the world that
the quarterbacks are so much worth more money than everybody
(42:24):
else on the football team.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Should the Cowboys acknowledge Micah Parsons in a celebratory way
prior to the game?
Speaker 7 (42:36):
I mean, I'm old school. I don't give a damn
if they do, right, But at the same time, it
would probably be the classy thing to do to make
a little acknowledgment for one of the better players there
that they've had in recent history, who also, you know,
lefts in a little bit of a weird situation, right,
I mean just a little bit, just a little bit,
(42:58):
and we took under the you know, you know, below
the belt shots at them through the whole process and
trying to change the rules of the CBA. And we
don't want his agent to negotiate because he might know
what he's talking about in negotiation of the contracts. We'd
rather talk about it to the football player. So yeah,
do I think that would be the classy thing to do.
I would, But if they don't do it, I'm not
going to sit there and drag the Cowboys. He's only
(43:20):
been there a short period of time. This is not
like it's a Randy White or Ed too Tall Jones.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Finish this sentence. Daniel Jones is.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
Is a lot better than people realize, and it's one
of my favorite Well why because he's got all the
physical tools and the mentality to be good at quarterback.
You know the thing I always say, right jokingly, I'm like,
get and I've probably said it to you before. If
you're around crap all the time, you start to smell
like crap, and crap gets on you and then all
of a sudden, you don't look so good. Sat Quon
(43:52):
Barkley was a bust up with the New York Giants.
They should have never picked them the number two. And
then he goes to a team like the Eagles and
we go, is he the best running back I've ever
seen him?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
So?
Speaker 7 (44:01):
Yeah, the support system wasn't correct for Daniel Jones, let alone,
just the climate around him. You know, it's the New
York fans being so critical, playing for a coach who
didn't really draft him, right, and Brian Dayball and I
don't know if he was totally invested there. So now
you're seeing you put a little offense around him, You
give him a few answers, you protect him a little bit.
(44:22):
Oh my gosh, Daniel Jones can make a lot happen,
just like Sam Darnold, just like Baker Mayfield, just like
sa Quon Barkley. It's a team sport. You need some support.
You're not not everybody Superman.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Whis the most must win game of the weekend?
Speaker 7 (44:36):
Oh all right, so that's a good one. I do
look at the Broncos being one and two on Monday night, gone,
they better win that one against the Bengals, right, who
are not playing good football, who are miraculously two and
one even though they've been out played in every game.
I think the most must win is the Ravens Chiefs game.
I don't think there's any doubt about that. I still
think the Ravens are a really good football team. I mean,
(44:58):
if Derrick Henry doesn't fall ball Againstuffalo, they probably win.
If he doesn't fumble. The other night, it's going to
be a nail bier right between the Detroit Lions. So
I still look at them as one of the top
teams in football. The Chiefs, on the other hand, I
do not. I've been one all year that's kind of said,
this is not the year they're going to do it
in the AFC West, and it's been worse than I expected.
The receiver injuries have certainly been a big part of that.
(45:19):
But yeah, the Chiefs are a team right now that
I look at and I go it's not close. So
I'm not like, Ooh, I like this. If they get
this straight, watch out they're in trouble. To me a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Here, we don't teach tackling anymore, it feels like, but
we are teaching punching the ball out right right at
any point, and I don't want to be a buzzkill.
Does the NFL legislate a violent act of trying to
punch a ball out?
Speaker 7 (45:49):
Probably not, I don't think so. I don't think they'll
ever be enough there, and I think it just adds
too much to the excitement of the football game. I
think the NFL wants excitement, they want big plays, they
want turnovers, they want points and all that, and that's
a big part of it. And to your point, yeah,
we don't practice tackling as much anymore because of all
the rules and everything's just different to where you can't
(46:11):
hit the same But at the same point, the tackling
is also falling off because I can tell you that
defensive players are going, hey, when you get in there,
the coaches are going hold them up so Johnny can
come by and knock the ball out, and that leads
to bad talking tackling too. But no, I don't think
that's going anywhere here anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Paulie insists that I ask you this question about the
vikings in Sam Donald because nobody loves Sam Donald more
than Paulie. Right, will the Vikings regret moving on from
Sam Donald?
Speaker 7 (46:44):
Well, they're definitely in a spot right now where you
don't know where it's gonna go, right. I think that's
that Like with JJ McCarthy, the fact that he didn't
play his rookie year. Here we are year two. It
was a little shaky in the game of the half
that he did pull out right, and now we're and
now we're gonna wait another few weeks for his development.
(47:06):
And you go, oh, I don't know where this quarterback
situation is. Did it go for the rest of the year.
It might be a problem. They might really have to
manage it. Yeah, from that standpoint, they're gonna I think
they're gonna regret it this year, but I think the
long play, they will not regret it when it's all
said and done. I still believe in JJ McCarthy and
more of that. I just believe it a'd No, I
mean Kevin O'Connell and his ability to groom these quarterbacks
(47:27):
and make them, you know, pretty awesome on the field.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, I'm I'm all in on that. I just didn't
see that. JJ McCarthy, Oh my gosh, man. And yeah, yeah,
I hear you, and and I trust your judgment as much,
if not more so, than anybody. I just don't I
didn't see it at Michigan. He wasn't featured at Michigan. No,
you're right, that's the fair point.
Speaker 7 (47:47):
And you know that year coming out, I had them
five out of those six great quarterbacks that all went
in the first round, right, because of some of the
things you said, Right, there was a part of you
that goes, wait, I like that he has to play
NFL football where it's not just spread and easy throws,
and he's playing in Michigan where it's play action and
throw the ball down the field. But to your point, yeah,
I didn't like that we might go a quarter without
(48:09):
him even throwing the football. That's a little crazy. And
the thing I think you're seeing too that he has
to work on is he's only got one club in
the bag. He only has the driver, he only has
the fastball. We don't see any like flick flick of
the wrist throws any side arm and he you know,
laying it over the linebackers and touching it to the
second level to a tight end. That's where he has
(48:31):
to grow. To me, every throw he makes that's good
is really just a fastball hardball.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
And what he's doing with Justin Herbert, I don't know
if it's tangible that you see something that he's a
different quarterback. Yes, and I think Jim builds in almost
bumpers rails for Herbert that he's going to be successful.
But I don't know exactly what Jim is doing, but
(48:58):
it looks different. Well, he's an ex quarterback.
Speaker 7 (49:02):
He makes the quarterbacks feel like he's in the fight
with them, right like I'm out there playing with you,
I'm supporting you. I know it's not easy, and I
think that's always great for a quarterback because it's not
easy and not a lot of people could put themselves
in their shoes that way. And he also, I think,
is trying to change the culture there. And let's not
forget the Chargers. Chargering was a big thing, them screwing
up games, doing everything there. He's changed that aspect about
(49:25):
the football team, and within that, he's got to change
kind of the mindset of the quarterback who's leading the charge.
I think there's two things that I look at. One,
watch this Sunday. He gets mad at his teammates. Now
he yells a little bit. That's what I like to see.
The second thing is he's getting outside the pocket and
making plays out there. That was the only ERAa he
(49:46):
really lacked behind the great ones mahomes Lamar Josh Allen Burrow.
Right when the defense would win against those guys, those
guys still made a play and got a twenty yard game.
Where you go, man, that was the perfect defense, the
perfect pass rush. But they still made it happen, almost
imposing their will that way. I don't think Herbert was
like that, but you're seeing that this year, and he's
(50:06):
playing as good as anybody in the NFL right now
a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Good appearance, have a good weekend. Great to talk to
you again, Chris, Thank you, thanks a lot man, thank you.
That's Chris Sims.
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