January 7, 2026 • 39 mins
Ravens insider Jamison Hensley breaks down the firing of John Harbaugh and shares which coaches the Ravens could aim to replace him with. Former NFL QB Dan Orlovsky believes Sean McDermott may be coaching for his job and says Arch Manning would be QB1 if he declared for the NFL Draft. Pro Football Hall of Fame head coach Tony Dungy weighs in on the NFL HC carousel and breaks down which QBs are under the most pressure in the playoffs.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Jamison Hensley has been covering the Ravens for the Mothership
since twenty thirteen. And I played a piece of sound
after the game and I thought it was a great
question and telling answer. Let me play for play for
you that question again and what the situation was after
losing a tough game? Lamar Jackson's answer or non answer?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Do you want to see John me and the coach
rum here? You asked me about next year? Jamison, I'm
so caught up in what just happened tonight, I can't.
I can't focus on that right now. I just told you,
like he asked me, are you stun? I'm stunn right now.
I'm still strying the process.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I know we lost, but but you know that's.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
All the man who asked the question, Jamison Hensley joining us, Now,
what made you ask the question in that moment?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Just because Lamar Jackson's the peace of this franchise and
his opinion carries a lot of weight. And when John
Harball is in his eighteenth season and you have a
super Bowl favorite team not make the playoffs, there's gonna
be a lot of questions about John's Harball's job security.
We've been asking John Harball about his job security for
two weeks, and I just thought it was time for
(01:17):
Lamar Jackson to have his chance to weigh in. And
I believe if I asked him, hey, do you want
Derrick Henry to be your running back? Do you want
Zay Flowers to be a wide receiver? He was saying, oh, yes,
I definitely want to play with those guys. But for
Lamar to basically say, hey, you know what, I'm focusing
on the loss. For him to not give John Harball
(01:38):
go to confidence at that point was pretty telling too.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, I thought so. I was trying to be fair
to him because I don't know that separation of game
ends cooling down period and then you go to the
press conference. But you got to say yes in that
moment just to you know, keep reporters like you off
the scent there. But what if the field goal is good?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
No, I don't think that changes anything, Okay, I don't.
I think the news was surprising. I think everyone was
bracing for change. I think it was more that everyone
was thinking that it was going to be a change
at the coordinator level and I know up until yesterday
that John Harball was pretty comfortable that he was going
(02:23):
to be proceeding as the head coach of the Ravens.
Speaker 6 (02:25):
Things changed in that afternoon.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
I've talked to a lot of people in this building
here at the Ravens facility, still have not found a
definitive answer. I don't think there will be one definitive vance.
I think it's a culmination of things. But we're at a
point now where the Ravens are searching for their first
head coach since two thousand and eight. I mean, Dan,
the last time I covered a coaching search, I think
I had a flip.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Phone losing the locker room. Yeah, what does that mean?
Is that a real story.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
I've been in that locker room for twenty six years,
and I was there for the past two weeks.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
I did not get that sense. I will say.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
There were players in that locker room that were not
pro John Harball, and I will say after the game,
not only do we ask Mar Jackson, we asked running
back Derek Henry. We asked offensive tackle Rynie Stanley do
you want to see John Harball return.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
As head coach?
Speaker 5 (03:22):
And both of those guys said, Hey, we love John Harball,
but that's not our decision. So it wasn't like this
huge support for John Harball, but I think there was.
If you look at the last couple of games at
green Bay where it was a must win.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
At Pittsburgh was a must win.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
If John Harball lost the locker room, they would have
lost those games by a wide margin. They were still
fighting in those and I think that is a sign
that John Harball hadn't lost that locker room. But I
will also say that there's a feeling that Harball, after years,
eighteen years, he had kind of run his course here
(04:00):
and he had Lamar Jackson for nine or eight years,
three playoff wins. Maybe the perception was maybe it was
time to give somebody else a chance because Lamar Jackson's
not going to play forever. Maybe it was another chance
to give somebody else see if they can take Lamar
Jackson to new heights.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Are what are the Ravens plans?
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Now? Yeah, that's my knee jerk reaction.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Once I heard John Harrball was fired, I was.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
Like, Okay, who is next? Well, you look at this roster.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
I mean they have had a dozen of Pro Bowl players,
They have a two time MVP in Lamar Jackson. They
got to bring somebody with a big name established, you
just can't. But then I also thought back to two
thousand and eight when they introduced John Harball as the
next guy coach. And this is a special teams guy.
I mean he was the second pick to Jason Garrett
after Jason Garrett turned it down and ravens Uner. Steve
(04:52):
Ashatti made the point back then that he made a
career in his business for selecting guys with resumes by
hitting on those guys. And how do you separate yourself
from the masses, This is from Bushati. How do you
separate separate yourself from the masses, Well, you go against
the green. You don't follow the masses, you don't follow
the general thing. So I don'm sure he takes a
(05:16):
coach that has been a head coach before. I think
he takes great pride in selecting John Harball and having
him have a Hall of Fame.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
Type career here in Baltimore.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
So it wouldn't surprise me if he goes for a
younger coach maybe doesn't have a head coaching experience, because
that has been his history.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well there's Clint. Clint Kubianc. There's Chris Shula like, there's
younger guys that have thing.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
Jesse Minter as well, Jesse Mitchrill's are going to with
the Chargers.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So I don't know if they're going offense or defense.
Could you see them leaning one way or another of
what type of coach they're bringing in.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
I think they're looking for a coach, it doesn't matter
if it's offense or defense. I think they're looking for
some to reinvigorate this franchise. And I think it ain't
kind of grown a little stale around here, and so
I think they need somebody to to really kind of
energize not only that locker room, but Lamar Jackson as well.
(06:17):
And I think that is when whoever takes over for
the Ravens, that is going to be the key. How
do they connect with Lamar Jackson Because not only is
he the face of this franchise, he is the leader
and he as this team goes, as Lamar goes, this
team goes. So I think that is going to be
the priority. It's more not more of offense defense, but
(06:38):
how do they connect with Lamar Jackson?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Where does John Harball end up?
Speaker 6 (06:44):
That is also a very good question.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
And as much as I think the Ravens now become
the number one destination for any available coach, John Harball
is the number one candidate out there for a guy
who changed the culture here with the Ravens, who turned
this team from yeah, a you know, good playoff team
under Billock, you know, but they have you know, kind
(07:06):
of gone off the off the tracks a little bit.
He turned them into a perennial super Bowl contender. And
I mean you look at his resume as being and
he's adapted over the years. He'll acknowledge that he is
a players coach. I've talked to players. They say he
has his best when uh, you know, it's the it's
tough times. So I think he would relish the chance
to go to a New York Giants team that has
(07:27):
a lot of good players, a great roster. But I
also think there could be some teams out there that
have had coaches. Yeah, maybe maybe Miami Dolphins where he
could go there as well.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
I think John.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Harball being available changes everything. It changes even teams that
have here. It just changes the coaching search immediately.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
The thing that really kind of surprised me with Lamar's
non answer when you asked the question was nobody has
had his back more than John Harbaugh did without doubt,
found doubt, but it felt like there was a disconnect
at some point.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Yeah, And I will say, Dan, I mean, like you said,
no one has had the back of Lamar more than
John Harriball.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
I mean you go.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Back to that two thousand and nineteen playoff game, sorry,
twenty eighteen playoff games, Lamar's first playoff game, and he's struggling,
and Joe Flacco is on the sideline and there's fans chanting,
chanton Flacco. Flaco, put this guy back in there your
Super Bowl quidning and he did. He stayed with Lamar,
(08:33):
and I think that was a big turning point, not
only for this franchise, but also the relationship of Lamar
and Harball. And I think they had a good relationship.
I think for John, he was kind of the middle
guy between where there was some friction between Lamar Jackson
and some of.
Speaker 6 (08:52):
The coaching staff as well.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
And I think he was the middle guy, and I
think he tried to hold it together as well as
he could. But at a certain point, if someone told
me there's a certain shelf life when you're coaching, Lamar
Jackson and this coaching staff reached the end of.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It if the Steelers had lost. Finish that sentence with
Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 6 (09:14):
Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
Mean that's a very interesting question because I mean, you
got the two you know, tenured coaches in the NFL,
and and John Harball was even asked about that kind
of Mike Tomlin and and him. Will this game be
a referendum on your kind of both of your your
your coaching, your job securities for both coaches?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And I thought Tomlin was on the hot seat James, right.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
Yeah, But I mean Harpball gave a great quote. He
quoted Billy Jean King, the Tennis Hall of Famer saying,
you know what, pressure is a privilege, and it's a
privilege to be on the hot seat because it means
you know what you're you're doing something that you love.
And so I will say this about John Harball that
for a guy that has been around for almost two
decades and was kind of being asked some tough questions
(10:02):
about his job over the last two weeks, he handled
it very very well. And someone told me yesterday after
the news had kind of broken that John Harball is
at peace with this decision and he kind of feels
that it's good to be a reset for nominally for
the franchise for him as well.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Great stuff, I know you're busy. Thanks for taking time.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Thank you so much. Dan really appreciate it all right.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Jamison Hensley ESPN Ravens reporter since twenty thirteen, been in
the building for over a couple of decades.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
There.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
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Speaker 7 (10:43):
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Speaker 8 (10:47):
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Speaker 2 (11:13):
Dan Orlovsky you can catch him on the NFL Live
every weekday at four Eastern former NFL yukon quarterback back
with us. Good to see you, buddy. I'm gonna let
you pick. You're gonna be the offensive coordinator with these openings.
The best opening as an offensive coordinator is where Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
So much talent, so many weapons, a very good offensive line.
I'd like to keep my offensive line coach Dwayne Ledford,
who if you talk to anybody in the NFL, has
done a great job down there and is one of
the best offensive offensive line coaches in the NFL. I
understand there's a significant question mark and void at the
(11:56):
quarterback spot with the you know, Michael Pennix inability to
consistently perform and to be on the field. What's gonna
happen with Cousins. It sounds like he'll be a free agent.
But Jean Robinson, Drake London, Kyle Pitts. There's just too
much talent and a good offensive line.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
But being a former quarterback, I would have thought the
Raiders or the Giants. Now, what would spare you about
the Raiders?
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Ah, that's the worst roster in football. There is such
a lack of talent on the football team. I mean,
the only person that you can confidently say you is
a trademark foundational piece is brock Bauers, and he's outstanding.
Jenti's still a little bit of a question mark. We
don't really know how good he is, and it's not
all his fault. The offensive line was very bad. I
(12:43):
think they'll end up trading mac crosby just for value,
and so I number one pick all that, there's just
so many. I think it's three years from now before
you really get the necessary pieces to have a chance
to play consistently good offensive football. I'm with you on
the that would be the one that was would be
very close to me. Neighbors' health, huge Skataboo. I'm a
(13:06):
huge Jackson Dark fan. I was coming out. Everyone knows that.
So Atlanta is not this head and shoulders above the
Giants for me. But I just think because of the
pieces there and the division as.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Well, best opening right now is where probably the.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Two that it was just talking about, Atlanta and New York,
you know, but they're different, and it's almost like a
one to eighty New York. You have a quarterback, but
you still need other pieces. The offensive line is not
good enough outside of the left tackle, and then you
probably need a second or third pass catching option. Theo
Johnson had some moments, but you got a quarterback. The
(13:43):
problem is it's a general manager who has to win now.
He has to win now, and so it's a very
short window that immediate success has to happen. Where in Atlanta.
I talked about those pieces, you're also as a head
coach going in the same timeline and as that general manager,
and you're going to I think Atlanta would make sense
(14:04):
to either Keith Kirker. I could see them adding maybe
a second round draft pick at quarterback. But like you're
in lockstep timeline wise with the general manager.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
And I'm wondering about John Harball and or Kevin Stefanski,
how much say they would have. Liam Cohen goes to
Jacksonville and says, I don't want that GM. The Giants
got their GM already in place. How difficult is that
to sell? Let's say, John Harball, Hey come in and
we already have our GM.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yeah, I would imagine it's a challenge. You know that
part of that is do those guys have a previous relationship,
do they get along? Do they think they can work together?
You know this just because we're friends doesn't mean we
can work together. You know, what would be the plan?
And I don't know if those are questions. I've never
been in the situation Dan, where if John Harball wants
the Giants job but wants to make sure that he
(14:55):
protects his back with okay, if this isn't necessarily going
great early on, I don't know even if you address
that in interview questions with the mayor of family. But
if you're the mayor of family in hardball, well what
happens if you guys decide to move on from Joe Shane?
Then do I get to pick the general manager? Do
we have a list of people we're already planning on
if that becomes the worst case scenario? And so I
(15:19):
do think it presents a challenging situation, Kyle, I remember
years ago went to San Francisco and then brought on
John Lynch in his own you know, kind of decision.
So you know, I don't sometimes a lot is made
out of that, and sometimes I don't know if it's
as big a deal as we make it out to be.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, then you got the Brown situation, like how attractive
is that job if with ownership and you got the
GM in place?
Speaker 4 (15:47):
I don't find it overly attractive. I think Andrew Berry
has done a nice job. I do. All of us
analysts can't talk out of the both sides of our mouths.
We have, for it feels four or five years now,
talked about the Brown and said, man, this is such
a good, young, talented roster if they could just figure
out the quarterback position. So we can't say that over
the course of what feels like four or five years.
(16:09):
But then also not or say, how is Andrew Berry
still there?
Speaker 6 (16:14):
You know?
Speaker 4 (16:14):
And I do think he hasn't been perfect, but I
do think he's built a good football team for the
most part. But then you've got the ownership and they
just fired a coach as a two time Coach of
the Year, that assumption on my end, but by all
accounts was forced to have a quarterback signed to a
ridiculous contract. He's when was the last time a coach
(16:35):
won in Cleveland?
Speaker 6 (16:36):
You know?
Speaker 4 (16:36):
And they just move on from him. And so I
understand that there's two first round picks, but you know,
I think there's other places that are much more desirable.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
But you got Deshaun Watson, you're paying him, was healthy
enough to practice, So why don't you open up the
opportunity for him to kind of try to prove himself
for this one year.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Oh that shit is sailed. I mean, Deshaun. The last
time Deshaun played good football I think was five years ago,
twenty twenty one. And I would tell you, Dan, the
thing that stood out the last time I think we
saw him playing on the field, which I believe was
maybe twenty twenty three, was he looked like a shell
of himself athletically. I mean, Deshaun's dealt with some injuries now.
(17:21):
I mean he's he's got I think at least two,
if not three ACL tears. He's got the achilles, he
had the shoulder. I mean, I think just physically his
body is just kind of started to break down. I
just don't think athletically he's what he was five six,
seven years ago.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, he stopped running, you know, And you're right, he
kind of lost that athleticism or that willing willingness to
take a hit. I brought this up before with Lamar Jackson.
He went from eleven rushing attempts to a round five.
And I don't is that a concerted effort on his
part or the offensive coordinator collaborative, but it running quarterbacks.
(18:02):
Mobile quarterbacks do eventually stop trying to run as many
times as you know they did when they're younger. Is
that what happened with Lamar?
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Yeah, but collaborative it's the smart thing to do. It's
the right thing to do from a coaching perspective of
not asking that player after he's you know, kind of
built up the career that he has and has taken
hits to continue to do that six seven, eight plus
years into your career, specifically in September, October, and November.
Now as you get into December and playoff football, you
(18:33):
probably ramp it up. And I think that's what a
lot of people expect from like the Philadelphia Eagles and
the Buffalo Bills as they get into these playoff runs.
And then I think it's certainly part of the player
to sit back and go, all right, availability my health.
I got to be at my best when it's needed
the most. It's a long season. That one game that's
been added. People probably think it's only a small thing.
(18:54):
It's a huge deal for these organizations and these quarterbacks.
They expect to be playing nineteen twenty games, maybe twenty one,
and so I do think it's a self preservation reality,
and Lamar was banged up this year to begin with.
We were talking about it consistingly on NFL Live that
he was getting tackled in one on one situations more
(19:15):
than I had ever seen. And so, yeah, it was
one of the storylines for the Ravens this year.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Can Josh Allen limit his I mean, he seems consistent,
He's running seven times a game.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Yeah, I just think it's situational when Josh has done it.
You know, it's Josh used to run seven times a game,
and five of them were just to go do it
and try to run through the whole defense. It seems
a little bit more strategic nowadays for Joshu, where you know,
I'll do it on a third down, I'll do it
in the red zone, I got the conversion, I'll go
out of bounce, or I'll side and not necessarily try
(19:49):
to prove how tough I am. And so it seems
to be a little bit more of a concerted effort
to be situational and strategic.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Talking to Dan Orlovsky of The Mothership, Adam Schefter reporting
that the Giants will interview Mike McCarthy, I was just
mentioning his name. You know ten minutes ago that he's
kind of off the radar, But I'm wondering why he's
off the radar. His resume is similar to Sean Payton,
Mike Tomlin, and Harball.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, he's a good coach obviously, Mike McCarthy's had a
lot of success. I think that there's there's places that
make sense. You know, last year I was like, man,
I would entertain him in Chicago to get Caleb to
play a little bit more on structure. There's a part
of me that feels that way with Jackson Dart. But
I also think Jackson Dart probably has to live and
(20:38):
should live in a little bit more of a of
a Josh Allen, Patrick mahomes Lamar Jackson A create a
creative world where that's emphasized. I would also say this,
it has to make the Giants take a little bit
of a step back and go, wait, why did our
offense in Dallas look the way it did stretches in
(21:01):
twenty twenty three and twenty four, and I know there
was no George Pickens obviously, and then it looked like
the way it did under Brian Schottenheimer in twenty twenty five,
where it was one of the best offenses in football.
That has to be at the forefront of the Giants.
And if this conversation is a real thing between them
and Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Give me the quarterback under the most pressure in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
I'm not giving you Josh because Josh is the clear, runaway,
obvious answer. Okay, I'm gonna say it's Trevor Dan I
called Monday Night Football in twenty twenty four. Let's call
it fourteen months ago. On the road. He was playing
up in Buffalo. They got destroyed and he was awful,
(21:43):
and I remember being on the call, not even on
the call in the meetings before him, being like, something
just seems off with him. He just doesn't have the
confidence right now. And then you watched it play out
in the game and in the booth, I'm like, oh
my gosh, is this the beginning of Trevor Lawrence being
an afterthought in the NFL? And it was just you
(22:04):
could tell he did not have any belief in himself.
And then they hire Liam and there's a little bit
of friction maybe early on in the season, and there's
the moment against the Bengals, pinning on his chest and
everyone's making a big deal out of it and whatnot.
And then right now, he's the hottest quarterback in the
NFL going into the playoffs. It's the hottest pass game
in the NFL going into the playoffs. They've got him
(22:24):
thinking less, they've got him reacting more. He thinks he's
the best player in the field every time he steps
on the field. And so you're watching you play out
in real time of like, this is the guy, this
is the guy you were at Clemson, this is the
guy you were drafted, be the number on overall pick
you're playing this weekend. It gets the guy that people
thought you could be like. And so I would say,
(22:45):
just the way he's played this year. You know, guys
going to different groupings and different areas when they go
do what they've done in the regular season in the postseason.
I say, Trevor.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Lawrence, the coach under the most pressure. Sehan McDermott, Is
he coaching for his job?
Speaker 4 (23:03):
I hate answering this question, Yes, but my job is
to be honest. Yes, And I think the world of
coach McDermott. I think he's a great football coach. But
what we're watching in the NFL right now is these
organizations that have high expectations. If those expectations are not met,
these people move off from ready And I just watched
(23:27):
the Ravens move off from one of the great coaches
in the last two decades. And if Buffalo falls flat
and does not win this weekend, is it outrageous to
think that they decide to move on from Sean McDermott.
Maybe they hire John Harbaugh. Maybe that's the coach that
they choose to go and replace that move But yeah,
(23:48):
I think so because just the expectations are high.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I mentioned this at the top of the hour, that
Indiana is a great story. Fernando Mendoza is a great story.
But I got to separate great story from are you
a great player? And it feels like Fernando Mendoza, who
his Heisman numbers were probably middle of the pack, if
you know, if he didn't throw interceptions.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
But.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
How do you how should we evaluate him and Dante
more since they're the two quarterbacks who are above everybody else,
but that I don't know if they're just the best
quarterbacks this year, So I don't know how good they are.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Yeah, So I would say with Fernando, I think the
starting point is can you see it? And can you
throw it? And those boxes are checked. Yes, that's a
clear declaration that he can see it and he can
throw it. Those have to be foundational traits for quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Explain that though, see it, throw it?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Yeah. So a lot of times with quarterbacks it's can
you see what the defense is presenting you? He was
on with Pat the other day and he uses the
phrase every play is a puzzle, and I have to
figure out what that puzzle is. I often say every
play the defense presents to you a question, and you
have to know what that answer is. And the question
is often do you have a problem. What's the front,
(25:10):
what's the coverage, where's the blitz, what's the weakness of
the cover. So you have to see kind of all
of that moving in a very short period of time.
Can you see that? Or are you a guy that
can't because some guys can and some guys can't. And
then Dan, there's levels to it. What happens if you
can see it, but it takes you two tenths of
a second too long. That's an eternity in the NFL.
(25:33):
Rock Perty's one of the greats to do it. I
can see exactly what you're doing. Brady was talking about
it years ago when he was going into the Super Bowl.
I think into the Chiefs he was like, I knew
exactly what they were doing before they knew what they
were doing, you know. And so Fernando can see it.
And I think that's one of the things that's become
clear the more that people have watched him, is like,
if you allow him to know what you're in, you're dead.
(25:54):
He's gonna carve you up. So can you see it?
And then can you throw it? I hate the phrase
this guy can make all the things. I don't care.
There's thousands of people on planet Earth that can make
all the throws. You have to make the right throw
at the right time. So that's what I mean by that.
This eighteen yard en route versus Cover three is a
different throw. Versus Cover two is a different throw. Versus
(26:17):
Cover one is a different throw. When I have to
move in the pocket is a different throw in the
backside linebackers two yards more into the middle field than
he is. And so that's deep, deep football talk. So
I think he can do that. You know, how great
is he when it comes to the plus plays? How
great is he when to come. He hasn't necessarily dealt
with a ton of adversity at Indiana this year, and
(26:38):
then with Dante Moore. You know what, Dante Moore, Dan,
he reminds me of Matt Ryan a little bit. If
it's in rhythm, it's lovely, it's lovely, it's pure, it's rhythmic.
It's like the consistency of that. It's very smooth. When
he has to move, when he has to be off
(26:59):
time just a second, I think that person becomes a
little bit more realistic and average. Matt had this really
sudden athleticism in the pocket that allowed him to play
at a consistent level. Dante's got to develop that, but
he's very pure.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
We were talking about this pre show. If arch Manning
was in this year's draft number one overall.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Not even close, not even close, not even close, you'd
be the runaway number one pick. Arch Manning is kind
of like the throwback nineteen seventy quarterback with modern day
training and nutrition. I'm a huge fan of this guy.
(27:44):
He's physically remarkably gifted. He's intelligent when it comes to
the football, understanding of speed and space, all that. I
think he's wired the right way. He's when you watch
him on a sideline, he's ultra competitive. I think he's
weathered a lot. He's going into the NFL, or when
(28:04):
he does, he's gonna have weathered so many different storms.
And we know that's a huge deal, so many different
finger pointings and adversity and hype and falling short and
getting punched and getting backed up. You got to have
that skill, you have to have that trait to be
elite outside of the physical things. And so yeah, he
(28:24):
would be number one Runaway.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Well run Away, Okay, I thought he would be a
top ten pick. But I you know, when we had
this conversation before I was told that, you know, NFL
scouts said no, he would be the number one. He
would be the number one pick Runaway, Dan Runaway didn't
show that he wasn't that company, and you just said
he'd be the number one pick.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
And add in the context of this, the one to
two pick are Las Vegas and New York. I mean
these are huge markets, you know, obviously organizations when it
comes to like at least visibility, and so yeah, number one.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Run Away and then he'd have Brady as the owner
in Vegas, and.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
It the pit would already be made.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Great to talk to you as always. Thank you, Thank you,
sir Dan Orlovsky. The mothership Fox Sports Radio has the
best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
our shows at Foxsports Radio dot com and within the
iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live Tony Dungee Hall
of Famer.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
He'll be uh.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
They're working Sunday night, Chargers Patriots AFC Wildcard game for
NBC and Peacock kickoff at eight eastern ton. Good to
talk to you again. I saw where the John Harball
situation really bothered you. Why.
Speaker 9 (29:45):
Well, we were at.
Speaker 7 (29:48):
The game, Dan covering the game Pittsburgh and Baltimore, and
leading up to it, all we're hearing is whichever coaches
loses the game is in trouble. And I'm thinking, here's
the guy who's been there nineties years, and now the
guy's been there eighteen years. They've been to Super Bowls,
they've been in the playoffs. Why are you in trouble? Well,
I interviewed Mike Tomlin Saturday. I'm in Art Rooney's office
(30:10):
and I sit for thirty minutes with Art Rooney and
I come to the conclusion Mike Tomlin is not in trouble.
I just i'd sense it from talking to Art Well.
Baltimore loses the game, their kicker misses the kick. Otherwise
they'd be hosting a home playoff game. And John Harbor
gets fired. And you look at the stats and what
they've done, winning twelve games, thirteen games in the last
(30:33):
three years, going to the playoffs. I just don't understand it.
I get it, it's happened. It happened to me. We won,
We went to the playoffs three times, and I got fired.
That's life. But I don't know what these owners are thinking.
Sometimes hopefully they get a better coach than John Harbaugh.
Speaker 9 (30:50):
I'm not sure they will.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Well that's just did it feels like the fans won't change.
But then who are you bringing in who's better than
Mike Tomlin. Are better than John Harball, But do you
sometimes need a change just for change sake? Because it's
been the same thing eighteen years, nineteen years.
Speaker 9 (31:09):
I don't believe in that. I think if you're an owner,
and maybe.
Speaker 7 (31:12):
That's what happened, maybe Steve Asaudi says, I look at this,
it's not going in the direction I want. And I've
got a change, and that's his prerogative. That's good. But
hopefully you're not changing as a reaction to the fans
or our fan base is upset or our locker room's
upset because we lost this game. Hopefully it is a
well thought out decision, and sometimes it works out great.
(31:34):
The Bucks fired me, they went to the super Bowl
the next year. I went to the Super Bowl in
India and Appolis, So sometimes it works out.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Well, why were you fired?
Speaker 9 (31:44):
I was fired because they didn't think.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
They didn't like our offensive style, and they didn't think
I was a guy who could take it to the
next level.
Speaker 9 (31:53):
When I got there, we'd had thirteen straight losing seasons.
Speaker 7 (31:56):
We win, We go to the playoffs four years out
of six, where you know, two minutes from a super Bowl.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
But they didn't think I could take it to the
next level. And that's fine.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
That's their prerogative, John Gruden, And that's what I will
say this about Baltimore. If you're Steve Bashatta, you better
get a guy who's ready to take this roster that's
set up to win and win now, don't train and
coach for five years from now and all of that.
You better get somebody who can do it for you
right now?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
What's the right fit for John Harbaugh?
Speaker 7 (32:28):
You know we were talking about that on our NBC podcast.
I look at Atlanta right now, and you've got a
couple of quarterbacks there. You've got, I think, the best
running back in football. You drafted some young defensive players
that an't that defense up. It's not a great division,
and you won. You beat all the people in your
division the last couple of weeks. You came on in December.
(32:50):
I think that could be a very very attractive spot.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Could you pass on the Giants if you're John Harbaugh?
Speaker 9 (32:57):
I don't know about John.
Speaker 7 (32:58):
I would pass on the Giants because I don't want
that New York drama. I can do a lot of
things to coach a lot of other places. Besides have
to have those press conferences. I've seen Aaron Glenn, I've
seen Brian Dabole and those Monday press conferences in New York.
Speaker 9 (33:12):
I don't know if I would want that.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Okay, so Atlanta you like a lot, Yes, what other position?
Speaker 9 (33:20):
There's a couple of teams there. You know, you have
to look at the Giants.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
You got a young quarterback there who looks like the
quarterback of the future. The Titans look like they've drafted
their quarterback in the future. It's not a great division either.
I would be worried about, you know, what's really going
on in the front office in Nashville and are they
going to give me a chance to succeed. You had
a pretty good coach in Mike Rabel and you let
him go. I think he's a pretty good coach, so
(33:45):
that that might worry me a little bit. But you
know any place. When I went to Tampa, they told
me not to go to Tampa. Oh, it's a death
knell for coaches.
Speaker 9 (33:53):
Don't go.
Speaker 7 (33:53):
So you've just got to get comfortable with the organization there,
with the people that are going to be your bosses
and make it work.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
And the Brown situation would make me nervous that you've
kept your GM. I don't trust the owner, you don't
have a quarterback.
Speaker 9 (34:10):
That's that's a pretty dicey threesome there. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (34:15):
You And although we're getting that way with a lot
of these franchises.
Speaker 9 (34:19):
Then you look at the Raiders.
Speaker 7 (34:20):
I saw a thing that they're paying all these coaches,
say eighty million dollars. They've had different coach every year,
what's the game plan? When are you going to say
this is my guy and I'm going to stick with it.
That's it was so refreshing to be an art Runey's
office and I told him about how his grandfather impacted
me and Chuck Nole and you know he's sitting there
and they've had three coaches in sixty years, and you know,
(34:44):
this is how we do it. We pick a guy,
we support him, we stand but behind them, and it
just doesn't seem like we're getting that now.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I brought this up many times that if I was
taking a job, I want to know how involved my
owner is going to be, because they built their money
to buy this team, but they didn't build it by
being a football guy. And sometimes you come into those
situations and look, I know Jerry Jones played college football
at a high leveled Arkansas, but most of these owners
(35:14):
didn't play. They're not football guys. And being able to
delegate is really important, and I think it's hard for
these billionaires to do that.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
Yeah, And the other thing is you have to have
a sense of what the owner is looking for. I
can remember talking to Dan Rooney and he told me,
you know, his blueprint. We're in Pittsburgh, it's cold weather,
it's blue collar. So I want a defensive coach. That's
how we're going to build it. I want a young
guy because I don't want to do this every four
(35:45):
or five years. And I want a teacher and a communicator,
because that's how I learned. So that was his blueprint.
Give me a young, good, communicating defensive coach. So nineteen
sixty nine he hires Chuck Nole as a thirty year
old something that nobody they'd never heard of. And then
twenty three years later he hires Bill Cower, and then
(36:05):
sixteen years after that he hires Mike Tomlin. All this
he knew what he was looking for. I talked to
owners now and then some they asked me, well, who's
good out there?
Speaker 9 (36:15):
What are you looking for? I don't know.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Just tell me who's good. No, that's not it. What
do you want? And I remember my conversation with Jim Mercy. Hey,
we've got a young offense. It's in place. I want
you to come here, get our defense going. I also
like the way you connect with the fans and the
fan base. We haven't been here that long. We need
to connect with Indianapolis. That's what I'm looking for. In
(36:38):
fifteen minutes, he had sold me on what we're going
to do because I believe what he wanted that I
could deliver that for him. It's more than just money.
It's more than opportunity. It's more than Hey, you're a
good play caller.
Speaker 6 (36:50):
What do you want talking to?
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Tony Dungee Hall of Famer? And you can watch Chargers
Patriots in Foxboro Sunday night on NBC and PECO. They
get their festivity started. Football Night America's seven thirty Eastern.
Which quarterback's under the most pressure this weekend?
Speaker 9 (37:09):
Wow?
Speaker 7 (37:10):
Josh Allen for one, I think you can look at
it and say, Kansas City is not in This is
your year to go to the playoffs. You're gonna be
on the road, but we expect big things. You've been
superman in the past. We need superman again. Justin Herbert
in our game, He's played great, He's played lights out.
They don't have a very good offensive line in front
(37:31):
of him. You're gonna have to go on the road
and try to win a game. Those two guys in
the AFC for sure. On the NFC side of it,
Matthew Stafford. You went to Carolina a month ago. We
thought you had the best team in football. You turn
the ball over three times. If you don't turn the
(37:52):
ball over, everybody expects you to win this game. Go
into your playoff mode and produce.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Feels like Sam Darnold's going to be under pressure when
when the Seahawks play, because we keep waiting. Yeah, we're
waiting to see. Is this a different Sam Darnold. I
think Trevor Lawrence being at home playing at a high level,
and we've bought into Trevor Lawrence and the Jags feels
(38:18):
like there's a lot of pressure there as well. What
about most pressure for a coach in the playoffs?
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Oh, I think right now Mike Tomlin for sure. I mean,
and not from his ownership, but from his fan base. Oh,
we're tired of this nine.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
But can you imagine if they lose, they're they're underdogs
at home, Tony.
Speaker 7 (38:35):
Yes, and if they lose, it'll be Ah, it's the
same narrative. We're not very good. Forget about last week,
forget about this last month. You lost another playoff game.
And I know his players don't want that. They want
to win for him. I sense that Uh, the other
most of these other teams, you've got new coaches, new faces,
everybody's just excited and ramped up.
Speaker 9 (38:58):
Maybe Matt Lafleur.
Speaker 7 (39:00):
Uh, you've been in the playoffs a few times and
you've you've had some upsets earlier on.
Speaker 9 (39:05):
But now where are we. Let's let's let's get this
thing going.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Great to talk to you, Happy New Year. Great to
see you again.
Speaker 9 (39:11):
Thank you, buddy. I always good to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Tony Dungee
You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Jamison Hensley has been covering the Ravens for the Mothership
since twenty thirteen. And I played a piece of sound
after the game and I thought it was a great
question and telling answer. Let me play for play for
you that question again and what the situation was after
losing a tough game? Lamar Jackson's answer or non answer?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Do you want to see John me and the coach
rum here? You asked me about next year? Jamison, I'm
so caught up in what just happened tonight, I can't.
I can't focus on that right now. I just told you,
like he asked me, are you stun? I'm stunn right now.
I'm still strying the process.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I know we lost, but but you know that's.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
All the man who asked the question, Jamison Hensley joining us, Now,
what made you ask the question in that moment?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Just because Lamar Jackson's the peace of this franchise and
his opinion carries a lot of weight. And when John
Harball is in his eighteenth season and you have a
super Bowl favorite team not make the playoffs, there's gonna
be a lot of questions about John's Harball's job security.
We've been asking John Harball about his job security for
two weeks, and I just thought it was time for
(01:17):
Lamar Jackson to have his chance to weigh in. And
I believe if I asked him, hey, do you want
Derrick Henry to be your running back? Do you want
Zay Flowers to be a wide receiver? He was saying, oh, yes,
I definitely want to play with those guys. But for
Lamar to basically say, hey, you know what, I'm focusing
on the loss. For him to not give John Harball
(01:38):
go to confidence at that point was pretty telling too.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, I thought so. I was trying to be fair
to him because I don't know that separation of game
ends cooling down period and then you go to the
press conference. But you got to say yes in that
moment just to you know, keep reporters like you off
the scent there. But what if the field goal is good?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
No, I don't think that changes anything, Okay, I don't.
I think the news was surprising. I think everyone was
bracing for change. I think it was more that everyone
was thinking that it was going to be a change
at the coordinator level and I know up until yesterday
that John Harball was pretty comfortable that he was going
(02:23):
to be proceeding as the head coach of the Ravens.
Speaker 6 (02:25):
Things changed in that afternoon.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
I've talked to a lot of people in this building
here at the Ravens facility, still have not found a
definitive answer. I don't think there will be one definitive vance.
I think it's a culmination of things. But we're at a
point now where the Ravens are searching for their first
head coach since two thousand and eight. I mean, Dan,
the last time I covered a coaching search, I think
I had a flip.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Phone losing the locker room. Yeah, what does that mean?
Is that a real story.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
I've been in that locker room for twenty six years,
and I was there for the past two weeks.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
I did not get that sense. I will say.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
There were players in that locker room that were not
pro John Harball, and I will say after the game,
not only do we ask Mar Jackson, we asked running
back Derek Henry. We asked offensive tackle Rynie Stanley do
you want to see John Harball return.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
As head coach?
Speaker 5 (03:22):
And both of those guys said, Hey, we love John Harball,
but that's not our decision. So it wasn't like this
huge support for John Harball, but I think there was.
If you look at the last couple of games at
green Bay where it was a must win.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
At Pittsburgh was a must win.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
If John Harball lost the locker room, they would have
lost those games by a wide margin. They were still
fighting in those and I think that is a sign
that John Harball hadn't lost that locker room. But I
will also say that there's a feeling that Harball, after years,
eighteen years, he had kind of run his course here
(04:00):
and he had Lamar Jackson for nine or eight years,
three playoff wins. Maybe the perception was maybe it was
time to give somebody else a chance because Lamar Jackson's
not going to play forever. Maybe it was another chance
to give somebody else see if they can take Lamar
Jackson to new heights.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Are what are the Ravens plans?
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Now? Yeah, that's my knee jerk reaction.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Once I heard John Harrball was fired, I was.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
Like, Okay, who is next? Well, you look at this roster.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
I mean they have had a dozen of Pro Bowl players,
They have a two time MVP in Lamar Jackson. They
got to bring somebody with a big name established, you
just can't. But then I also thought back to two
thousand and eight when they introduced John Harball as the
next guy coach. And this is a special teams guy.
I mean he was the second pick to Jason Garrett
after Jason Garrett turned it down and ravens Uner. Steve
(04:52):
Ashatti made the point back then that he made a
career in his business for selecting guys with resumes by
hitting on those guys. And how do you separate yourself
from the masses, This is from Bushati. How do you
separate separate yourself from the masses, Well, you go against
the green. You don't follow the masses, you don't follow
the general thing. So I don'm sure he takes a
(05:16):
coach that has been a head coach before. I think
he takes great pride in selecting John Harball and having
him have a Hall of Fame.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
Type career here in Baltimore.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
So it wouldn't surprise me if he goes for a
younger coach maybe doesn't have a head coaching experience, because
that has been his history.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well there's Clint. Clint Kubianc. There's Chris Shula like, there's
younger guys that have thing.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
Jesse Minter as well, Jesse Mitchrill's are going to with
the Chargers.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So I don't know if they're going offense or defense.
Could you see them leaning one way or another of
what type of coach they're bringing in.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
I think they're looking for a coach, it doesn't matter
if it's offense or defense. I think they're looking for
some to reinvigorate this franchise. And I think it ain't
kind of grown a little stale around here, and so
I think they need somebody to to really kind of
energize not only that locker room, but Lamar Jackson as well.
(06:17):
And I think that is when whoever takes over for
the Ravens, that is going to be the key. How
do they connect with Lamar Jackson Because not only is
he the face of this franchise, he is the leader
and he as this team goes, as Lamar goes, this
team goes. So I think that is going to be
the priority. It's more not more of offense defense, but
(06:38):
how do they connect with Lamar Jackson?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Where does John Harball end up?
Speaker 6 (06:44):
That is also a very good question.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
And as much as I think the Ravens now become
the number one destination for any available coach, John Harball
is the number one candidate out there for a guy
who changed the culture here with the Ravens, who turned
this team from yeah, a you know, good playoff team
under Billock, you know, but they have you know, kind
(07:06):
of gone off the off the tracks a little bit.
He turned them into a perennial super Bowl contender. And
I mean you look at his resume as being and
he's adapted over the years. He'll acknowledge that he is
a players coach. I've talked to players. They say he
has his best when uh, you know, it's the it's
tough times. So I think he would relish the chance
to go to a New York Giants team that has
(07:27):
a lot of good players, a great roster. But I
also think there could be some teams out there that
have had coaches. Yeah, maybe maybe Miami Dolphins where he
could go there as well.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
I think John.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Harball being available changes everything. It changes even teams that
have here. It just changes the coaching search immediately.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
The thing that really kind of surprised me with Lamar's
non answer when you asked the question was nobody has
had his back more than John Harbaugh did without doubt,
found doubt, but it felt like there was a disconnect
at some point.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Yeah, And I will say, Dan, I mean, like you said,
no one has had the back of Lamar more than
John Harriball.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
I mean you go.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Back to that two thousand and nineteen playoff game, sorry,
twenty eighteen playoff games, Lamar's first playoff game, and he's struggling,
and Joe Flacco is on the sideline and there's fans chanting,
chanton Flacco. Flaco, put this guy back in there your
Super Bowl quidning and he did. He stayed with Lamar,
(08:33):
and I think that was a big turning point, not
only for this franchise, but also the relationship of Lamar
and Harball. And I think they had a good relationship.
I think for John, he was kind of the middle
guy between where there was some friction between Lamar Jackson
and some of.
Speaker 6 (08:52):
The coaching staff as well.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
And I think he was the middle guy, and I
think he tried to hold it together as well as
he could. But at a certain point, if someone told
me there's a certain shelf life when you're coaching, Lamar
Jackson and this coaching staff reached the end of.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It if the Steelers had lost. Finish that sentence with
Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 6 (09:14):
Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
Mean that's a very interesting question because I mean, you
got the two you know, tenured coaches in the NFL,
and and John Harball was even asked about that kind
of Mike Tomlin and and him. Will this game be
a referendum on your kind of both of your your
your coaching, your job securities for both coaches?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And I thought Tomlin was on the hot seat James, right.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
Yeah, But I mean Harpball gave a great quote. He
quoted Billy Jean King, the Tennis Hall of Famer saying,
you know what, pressure is a privilege, and it's a
privilege to be on the hot seat because it means
you know what you're you're doing something that you love.
And so I will say this about John Harball that
for a guy that has been around for almost two
decades and was kind of being asked some tough questions
(10:02):
about his job over the last two weeks, he handled
it very very well. And someone told me yesterday after
the news had kind of broken that John Harball is
at peace with this decision and he kind of feels
that it's good to be a reset for nominally for
the franchise for him as well.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Great stuff, I know you're busy. Thanks for taking time.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
Thank you so much. Dan really appreciate it all right.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Jamison Hensley ESPN Ravens reporter since twenty thirteen, been in
the building for over a couple of decades.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
There.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan
Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio a app.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from The Odd
Couple on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 8 (10:47):
And in addition to hearing us live week nights from
seven to ten pm Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we
are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
That's right, you can now watch The Odd Couple live
on YouTube every day.
Speaker 8 (11:03):
All you gotta do search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube
again YouTube, Just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out
on YouTube and subscribe.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Dan Orlovsky you can catch him on the NFL Live
every weekday at four Eastern former NFL yukon quarterback back
with us. Good to see you, buddy. I'm gonna let
you pick. You're gonna be the offensive coordinator with these openings.
The best opening as an offensive coordinator is where Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
So much talent, so many weapons, a very good offensive line.
I'd like to keep my offensive line coach Dwayne Ledford,
who if you talk to anybody in the NFL, has
done a great job down there and is one of
the best offensive offensive line coaches in the NFL. I
understand there's a significant question mark and void at the
(11:56):
quarterback spot with the you know, Michael Pennix inability to
consistently perform and to be on the field. What's gonna
happen with Cousins. It sounds like he'll be a free agent.
But Jean Robinson, Drake London, Kyle Pitts. There's just too
much talent and a good offensive line.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
But being a former quarterback, I would have thought the
Raiders or the Giants. Now, what would spare you about
the Raiders?
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Ah, that's the worst roster in football. There is such
a lack of talent on the football team. I mean,
the only person that you can confidently say you is
a trademark foundational piece is brock Bauers, and he's outstanding.
Jenti's still a little bit of a question mark. We
don't really know how good he is, and it's not
all his fault. The offensive line was very bad. I
(12:43):
think they'll end up trading mac crosby just for value,
and so I number one pick all that, there's just
so many. I think it's three years from now before
you really get the necessary pieces to have a chance
to play consistently good offensive football. I'm with you on
the that would be the one that was would be
very close to me. Neighbors' health, huge Skataboo. I'm a
(13:06):
huge Jackson Dark fan. I was coming out. Everyone knows that.
So Atlanta is not this head and shoulders above the
Giants for me. But I just think because of the
pieces there and the division as.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Well, best opening right now is where probably the.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Two that it was just talking about, Atlanta and New York,
you know, but they're different, and it's almost like a
one to eighty New York. You have a quarterback, but
you still need other pieces. The offensive line is not
good enough outside of the left tackle, and then you
probably need a second or third pass catching option. Theo
Johnson had some moments, but you got a quarterback. The
(13:43):
problem is it's a general manager who has to win now.
He has to win now, and so it's a very
short window that immediate success has to happen. Where in Atlanta.
I talked about those pieces, you're also as a head
coach going in the same timeline and as that general manager,
and you're going to I think Atlanta would make sense
(14:04):
to either Keith Kirker. I could see them adding maybe
a second round draft pick at quarterback. But like you're
in lockstep timeline wise with the general manager.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
And I'm wondering about John Harball and or Kevin Stefanski,
how much say they would have. Liam Cohen goes to
Jacksonville and says, I don't want that GM. The Giants
got their GM already in place. How difficult is that
to sell? Let's say, John Harball, Hey come in and
we already have our GM.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yeah, I would imagine it's a challenge. You know that
part of that is do those guys have a previous relationship,
do they get along? Do they think they can work together?
You know this just because we're friends doesn't mean we
can work together. You know, what would be the plan?
And I don't know if those are questions. I've never
been in the situation Dan, where if John Harball wants
the Giants job but wants to make sure that he
(14:55):
protects his back with okay, if this isn't necessarily going
great early on, I don't know even if you address
that in interview questions with the mayor of family. But
if you're the mayor of family in hardball, well what
happens if you guys decide to move on from Joe Shane?
Then do I get to pick the general manager? Do
we have a list of people we're already planning on
if that becomes the worst case scenario? And so I
(15:19):
do think it presents a challenging situation, Kyle, I remember
years ago went to San Francisco and then brought on
John Lynch in his own you know, kind of decision.
So you know, I don't sometimes a lot is made
out of that, and sometimes I don't know if it's
as big a deal as we make it out to be.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, then you got the Brown situation, like how attractive
is that job if with ownership and you got the
GM in place?
Speaker 4 (15:47):
I don't find it overly attractive. I think Andrew Berry
has done a nice job. I do. All of us
analysts can't talk out of the both sides of our mouths.
We have, for it feels four or five years now,
talked about the Brown and said, man, this is such
a good, young, talented roster if they could just figure
out the quarterback position. So we can't say that over
the course of what feels like four or five years.
(16:09):
But then also not or say, how is Andrew Berry
still there?
Speaker 6 (16:14):
You know?
Speaker 4 (16:14):
And I do think he hasn't been perfect, but I
do think he's built a good football team for the
most part. But then you've got the ownership and they
just fired a coach as a two time Coach of
the Year, that assumption on my end, but by all
accounts was forced to have a quarterback signed to a
ridiculous contract. He's when was the last time a coach
(16:35):
won in Cleveland?
Speaker 6 (16:36):
You know?
Speaker 4 (16:36):
And they just move on from him. And so I
understand that there's two first round picks, but you know,
I think there's other places that are much more desirable.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
But you got Deshaun Watson, you're paying him, was healthy
enough to practice, So why don't you open up the
opportunity for him to kind of try to prove himself
for this one year.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Oh that shit is sailed. I mean, Deshaun. The last
time Deshaun played good football I think was five years ago,
twenty twenty one. And I would tell you, Dan, the
thing that stood out the last time I think we
saw him playing on the field, which I believe was
maybe twenty twenty three, was he looked like a shell
of himself athletically. I mean, Deshaun's dealt with some injuries now.
(17:21):
I mean he's he's got I think at least two,
if not three ACL tears. He's got the achilles, he
had the shoulder. I mean, I think just physically his
body is just kind of started to break down. I
just don't think athletically he's what he was five six,
seven years ago.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, he stopped running, you know, And you're right, he
kind of lost that athleticism or that willing willingness to
take a hit. I brought this up before with Lamar Jackson.
He went from eleven rushing attempts to a round five.
And I don't is that a concerted effort on his
part or the offensive coordinator collaborative, but it running quarterbacks.
(18:02):
Mobile quarterbacks do eventually stop trying to run as many
times as you know they did when they're younger. Is
that what happened with Lamar?
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Yeah, but collaborative it's the smart thing to do. It's
the right thing to do from a coaching perspective of
not asking that player after he's you know, kind of
built up the career that he has and has taken
hits to continue to do that six seven, eight plus
years into your career, specifically in September, October, and November.
Now as you get into December and playoff football, you
(18:33):
probably ramp it up. And I think that's what a
lot of people expect from like the Philadelphia Eagles and
the Buffalo Bills as they get into these playoff runs.
And then I think it's certainly part of the player
to sit back and go, all right, availability my health.
I got to be at my best when it's needed
the most. It's a long season. That one game that's
been added. People probably think it's only a small thing.
(18:54):
It's a huge deal for these organizations and these quarterbacks.
They expect to be playing nineteen twenty games, maybe twenty one,
and so I do think it's a self preservation reality,
and Lamar was banged up this year to begin with.
We were talking about it consistingly on NFL Live that
he was getting tackled in one on one situations more
(19:15):
than I had ever seen. And so, yeah, it was
one of the storylines for the Ravens this year.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Can Josh Allen limit his I mean, he seems consistent,
He's running seven times a game.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Yeah, I just think it's situational when Josh has done it.
You know, it's Josh used to run seven times a game,
and five of them were just to go do it
and try to run through the whole defense. It seems
a little bit more strategic nowadays for Joshu, where you know,
I'll do it on a third down, I'll do it
in the red zone, I got the conversion, I'll go
out of bounce, or I'll side and not necessarily try
(19:49):
to prove how tough I am. And so it seems
to be a little bit more of a concerted effort
to be situational and strategic.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Talking to Dan Orlovsky of The Mothership, Adam Schefter reporting
that the Giants will interview Mike McCarthy, I was just
mentioning his name. You know ten minutes ago that he's
kind of off the radar, But I'm wondering why he's
off the radar. His resume is similar to Sean Payton,
Mike Tomlin, and Harball.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, he's a good coach obviously, Mike McCarthy's had a
lot of success. I think that there's there's places that
make sense. You know, last year I was like, man,
I would entertain him in Chicago to get Caleb to
play a little bit more on structure. There's a part
of me that feels that way with Jackson Dart. But
I also think Jackson Dart probably has to live and
(20:38):
should live in a little bit more of a of
a Josh Allen, Patrick mahomes Lamar Jackson A create a
creative world where that's emphasized. I would also say this,
it has to make the Giants take a little bit
of a step back and go, wait, why did our
offense in Dallas look the way it did stretches in
(21:01):
twenty twenty three and twenty four, and I know there
was no George Pickens obviously, and then it looked like
the way it did under Brian Schottenheimer in twenty twenty five,
where it was one of the best offenses in football.
That has to be at the forefront of the Giants.
And if this conversation is a real thing between them
and Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Give me the quarterback under the most pressure in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
I'm not giving you Josh because Josh is the clear, runaway,
obvious answer. Okay, I'm gonna say it's Trevor Dan I
called Monday Night Football in twenty twenty four. Let's call
it fourteen months ago. On the road. He was playing
up in Buffalo. They got destroyed and he was awful,
(21:43):
and I remember being on the call, not even on
the call in the meetings before him, being like, something
just seems off with him. He just doesn't have the
confidence right now. And then you watched it play out
in the game and in the booth, I'm like, oh
my gosh, is this the beginning of Trevor Lawrence being
an afterthought in the NFL? And it was just you
(22:04):
could tell he did not have any belief in himself.
And then they hire Liam and there's a little bit
of friction maybe early on in the season, and there's
the moment against the Bengals, pinning on his chest and
everyone's making a big deal out of it and whatnot.
And then right now, he's the hottest quarterback in the
NFL going into the playoffs. It's the hottest pass game
in the NFL going into the playoffs. They've got him
(22:24):
thinking less, they've got him reacting more. He thinks he's
the best player in the field every time he steps
on the field. And so you're watching you play out
in real time of like, this is the guy, this
is the guy you were at Clemson, this is the
guy you were drafted, be the number on overall pick
you're playing this weekend. It gets the guy that people
thought you could be like. And so I would say,
(22:45):
just the way he's played this year. You know, guys
going to different groupings and different areas when they go
do what they've done in the regular season in the postseason.
I say, Trevor.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Lawrence, the coach under the most pressure. Sehan McDermott, Is
he coaching for his job?
Speaker 4 (23:03):
I hate answering this question, Yes, but my job is
to be honest. Yes, And I think the world of
coach McDermott. I think he's a great football coach. But
what we're watching in the NFL right now is these
organizations that have high expectations. If those expectations are not met,
these people move off from ready And I just watched
(23:27):
the Ravens move off from one of the great coaches
in the last two decades. And if Buffalo falls flat
and does not win this weekend, is it outrageous to
think that they decide to move on from Sean McDermott.
Maybe they hire John Harbaugh. Maybe that's the coach that
they choose to go and replace that move But yeah,
(23:48):
I think so because just the expectations are high.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I mentioned this at the top of the hour, that
Indiana is a great story. Fernando Mendoza is a great story.
But I got to separate great story from are you
a great player? And it feels like Fernando Mendoza, who
his Heisman numbers were probably middle of the pack, if
you know, if he didn't throw interceptions.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
But.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
How do you how should we evaluate him and Dante
more since they're the two quarterbacks who are above everybody else,
but that I don't know if they're just the best
quarterbacks this year, So I don't know how good they are.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Yeah, So I would say with Fernando, I think the
starting point is can you see it? And can you
throw it? And those boxes are checked. Yes, that's a
clear declaration that he can see it and he can
throw it. Those have to be foundational traits for quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Explain that though, see it, throw it?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Yeah. So a lot of times with quarterbacks it's can
you see what the defense is presenting you? He was
on with Pat the other day and he uses the
phrase every play is a puzzle, and I have to
figure out what that puzzle is. I often say every
play the defense presents to you a question, and you
have to know what that answer is. And the question
is often do you have a problem. What's the front,
(25:10):
what's the coverage, where's the blitz, what's the weakness of
the cover. So you have to see kind of all
of that moving in a very short period of time.
Can you see that? Or are you a guy that
can't because some guys can and some guys can't. And
then Dan, there's levels to it. What happens if you
can see it, but it takes you two tenths of
a second too long. That's an eternity in the NFL.
(25:33):
Rock Perty's one of the greats to do it. I
can see exactly what you're doing. Brady was talking about
it years ago when he was going into the Super Bowl.
I think into the Chiefs he was like, I knew
exactly what they were doing before they knew what they
were doing, you know. And so Fernando can see it.
And I think that's one of the things that's become
clear the more that people have watched him, is like,
if you allow him to know what you're in, you're dead.
(25:54):
He's gonna carve you up. So can you see it?
And then can you throw it? I hate the phrase
this guy can make all the things. I don't care.
There's thousands of people on planet Earth that can make
all the throws. You have to make the right throw
at the right time. So that's what I mean by that.
This eighteen yard en route versus Cover three is a
different throw. Versus Cover two is a different throw. Versus
(26:17):
Cover one is a different throw. When I have to
move in the pocket is a different throw in the
backside linebackers two yards more into the middle field than
he is. And so that's deep, deep football talk. So
I think he can do that. You know, how great
is he when it comes to the plus plays? How
great is he when to come. He hasn't necessarily dealt
with a ton of adversity at Indiana this year, and
(26:38):
then with Dante Moore. You know what, Dante Moore, Dan,
he reminds me of Matt Ryan a little bit. If
it's in rhythm, it's lovely, it's lovely, it's pure, it's rhythmic.
It's like the consistency of that. It's very smooth. When
he has to move, when he has to be off
(26:59):
time just a second, I think that person becomes a
little bit more realistic and average. Matt had this really
sudden athleticism in the pocket that allowed him to play
at a consistent level. Dante's got to develop that, but
he's very pure.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
We were talking about this pre show. If arch Manning
was in this year's draft number one overall.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Not even close, not even close, not even close, you'd
be the runaway number one pick. Arch Manning is kind
of like the throwback nineteen seventy quarterback with modern day
training and nutrition. I'm a huge fan of this guy.
(27:44):
He's physically remarkably gifted. He's intelligent when it comes to
the football, understanding of speed and space, all that. I
think he's wired the right way. He's when you watch
him on a sideline, he's ultra competitive. I think he's
weathered a lot. He's going into the NFL, or when
(28:04):
he does, he's gonna have weathered so many different storms.
And we know that's a huge deal, so many different
finger pointings and adversity and hype and falling short and
getting punched and getting backed up. You got to have
that skill, you have to have that trait to be
elite outside of the physical things. And so yeah, he
(28:24):
would be number one Runaway.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Well run Away, Okay, I thought he would be a
top ten pick. But I you know, when we had
this conversation before I was told that, you know, NFL
scouts said no, he would be the number one. He
would be the number one pick Runaway, Dan Runaway didn't
show that he wasn't that company, and you just said
he'd be the number one pick.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
And add in the context of this, the one to
two pick are Las Vegas and New York. I mean
these are huge markets, you know, obviously organizations when it
comes to like at least visibility, and so yeah, number one.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Run Away and then he'd have Brady as the owner
in Vegas, and.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
It the pit would already be made.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Great to talk to you as always. Thank you, Thank you,
sir Dan Orlovsky. The mothership Fox Sports Radio has the
best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
our shows at Foxsports Radio dot com and within the
iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live Tony Dungee Hall
of Famer.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
He'll be uh.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
They're working Sunday night, Chargers Patriots AFC Wildcard game for
NBC and Peacock kickoff at eight eastern ton. Good to
talk to you again. I saw where the John Harball
situation really bothered you. Why.
Speaker 9 (29:45):
Well, we were at.
Speaker 7 (29:48):
The game, Dan covering the game Pittsburgh and Baltimore, and
leading up to it, all we're hearing is whichever coaches
loses the game is in trouble. And I'm thinking, here's
the guy who's been there nineties years, and now the
guy's been there eighteen years. They've been to Super Bowls,
they've been in the playoffs. Why are you in trouble? Well,
I interviewed Mike Tomlin Saturday. I'm in Art Rooney's office
(30:10):
and I sit for thirty minutes with Art Rooney and
I come to the conclusion Mike Tomlin is not in trouble.
I just i'd sense it from talking to Art Well.
Baltimore loses the game, their kicker misses the kick. Otherwise
they'd be hosting a home playoff game. And John Harbor
gets fired. And you look at the stats and what
they've done, winning twelve games, thirteen games in the last
(30:33):
three years, going to the playoffs. I just don't understand it.
I get it, it's happened. It happened to me. We won,
We went to the playoffs three times, and I got fired.
That's life. But I don't know what these owners are thinking.
Sometimes hopefully they get a better coach than John Harbaugh.
Speaker 9 (30:50):
I'm not sure they will.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Well that's just did it feels like the fans won't change.
But then who are you bringing in who's better than
Mike Tomlin. Are better than John Harball, But do you
sometimes need a change just for change sake? Because it's
been the same thing eighteen years, nineteen years.
Speaker 9 (31:09):
I don't believe in that. I think if you're an owner,
and maybe.
Speaker 7 (31:12):
That's what happened, maybe Steve Asaudi says, I look at this,
it's not going in the direction I want. And I've
got a change, and that's his prerogative. That's good. But
hopefully you're not changing as a reaction to the fans
or our fan base is upset or our locker room's
upset because we lost this game. Hopefully it is a
well thought out decision, and sometimes it works out great.
(31:34):
The Bucks fired me, they went to the super Bowl
the next year. I went to the Super Bowl in
India and Appolis, So sometimes it works out.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Well, why were you fired?
Speaker 9 (31:44):
I was fired because they didn't think.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
They didn't like our offensive style, and they didn't think
I was a guy who could take it to the
next level.
Speaker 9 (31:53):
When I got there, we'd had thirteen straight losing seasons.
Speaker 7 (31:56):
We win, We go to the playoffs four years out
of six, where you know, two minutes from a super Bowl.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
But they didn't think I could take it to the
next level. And that's fine.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
That's their prerogative, John Gruden, And that's what I will
say this about Baltimore. If you're Steve Bashatta, you better
get a guy who's ready to take this roster that's
set up to win and win now, don't train and
coach for five years from now and all of that.
You better get somebody who can do it for you
right now?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
What's the right fit for John Harbaugh?
Speaker 7 (32:28):
You know we were talking about that on our NBC podcast.
I look at Atlanta right now, and you've got a
couple of quarterbacks there. You've got, I think, the best
running back in football. You drafted some young defensive players
that an't that defense up. It's not a great division,
and you won. You beat all the people in your
division the last couple of weeks. You came on in December.
(32:50):
I think that could be a very very attractive spot.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Could you pass on the Giants if you're John Harbaugh?
Speaker 9 (32:57):
I don't know about John.
Speaker 7 (32:58):
I would pass on the Giants because I don't want
that New York drama. I can do a lot of
things to coach a lot of other places. Besides have
to have those press conferences. I've seen Aaron Glenn, I've
seen Brian Dabole and those Monday press conferences in New York.
Speaker 9 (33:12):
I don't know if I would want that.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Okay, so Atlanta you like a lot, Yes, what other position?
Speaker 9 (33:20):
There's a couple of teams there. You know, you have
to look at the Giants.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
You got a young quarterback there who looks like the
quarterback of the future. The Titans look like they've drafted
their quarterback in the future. It's not a great division either.
I would be worried about, you know, what's really going
on in the front office in Nashville and are they
going to give me a chance to succeed. You had
a pretty good coach in Mike Rabel and you let
him go. I think he's a pretty good coach, so
(33:45):
that that might worry me a little bit. But you
know any place. When I went to Tampa, they told
me not to go to Tampa. Oh, it's a death
knell for coaches.
Speaker 9 (33:53):
Don't go.
Speaker 7 (33:53):
So you've just got to get comfortable with the organization there,
with the people that are going to be your bosses
and make it work.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
And the Brown situation would make me nervous that you've
kept your GM. I don't trust the owner, you don't
have a quarterback.
Speaker 9 (34:10):
That's that's a pretty dicey threesome there. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (34:15):
You And although we're getting that way with a lot
of these franchises.
Speaker 9 (34:19):
Then you look at the Raiders.
Speaker 7 (34:20):
I saw a thing that they're paying all these coaches,
say eighty million dollars. They've had different coach every year,
what's the game plan? When are you going to say
this is my guy and I'm going to stick with it.
That's it was so refreshing to be an art Runey's
office and I told him about how his grandfather impacted
me and Chuck Nole and you know he's sitting there
and they've had three coaches in sixty years, and you know,
(34:44):
this is how we do it. We pick a guy,
we support him, we stand but behind them, and it
just doesn't seem like we're getting that now.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I brought this up many times that if I was
taking a job, I want to know how involved my
owner is going to be, because they built their money
to buy this team, but they didn't build it by
being a football guy. And sometimes you come into those
situations and look, I know Jerry Jones played college football
at a high leveled Arkansas, but most of these owners
(35:14):
didn't play. They're not football guys. And being able to
delegate is really important, and I think it's hard for
these billionaires to do that.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
Yeah, And the other thing is you have to have
a sense of what the owner is looking for. I
can remember talking to Dan Rooney and he told me,
you know, his blueprint. We're in Pittsburgh, it's cold weather,
it's blue collar. So I want a defensive coach. That's
how we're going to build it. I want a young
guy because I don't want to do this every four
(35:45):
or five years. And I want a teacher and a communicator,
because that's how I learned. So that was his blueprint.
Give me a young, good, communicating defensive coach. So nineteen
sixty nine he hires Chuck Nole as a thirty year
old something that nobody they'd never heard of. And then
twenty three years later he hires Bill Cower, and then
(36:05):
sixteen years after that he hires Mike Tomlin. All this
he knew what he was looking for. I talked to
owners now and then some they asked me, well, who's
good out there?
Speaker 9 (36:15):
What are you looking for? I don't know.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Just tell me who's good. No, that's not it. What
do you want? And I remember my conversation with Jim Mercy. Hey,
we've got a young offense. It's in place. I want
you to come here, get our defense going. I also
like the way you connect with the fans and the
fan base. We haven't been here that long. We need
to connect with Indianapolis. That's what I'm looking for. In
(36:38):
fifteen minutes, he had sold me on what we're going
to do because I believe what he wanted that I
could deliver that for him. It's more than just money.
It's more than opportunity. It's more than Hey, you're a
good play caller.
Speaker 6 (36:50):
What do you want talking to?
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Tony Dungee Hall of Famer? And you can watch Chargers
Patriots in Foxboro Sunday night on NBC and PECO. They
get their festivity started. Football Night America's seven thirty Eastern.
Which quarterback's under the most pressure this weekend?
Speaker 9 (37:09):
Wow?
Speaker 7 (37:10):
Josh Allen for one, I think you can look at
it and say, Kansas City is not in This is
your year to go to the playoffs. You're gonna be
on the road, but we expect big things. You've been
superman in the past. We need superman again. Justin Herbert
in our game, He's played great, He's played lights out.
They don't have a very good offensive line in front
(37:31):
of him. You're gonna have to go on the road
and try to win a game. Those two guys in
the AFC for sure. On the NFC side of it,
Matthew Stafford. You went to Carolina a month ago. We
thought you had the best team in football. You turn
the ball over three times. If you don't turn the
(37:52):
ball over, everybody expects you to win this game. Go
into your playoff mode and produce.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Feels like Sam Darnold's going to be under pressure when
when the Seahawks play, because we keep waiting. Yeah, we're
waiting to see. Is this a different Sam Darnold. I
think Trevor Lawrence being at home playing at a high level,
and we've bought into Trevor Lawrence and the Jags feels
(38:18):
like there's a lot of pressure there as well. What
about most pressure for a coach in the playoffs?
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Oh, I think right now Mike Tomlin for sure. I mean,
and not from his ownership, but from his fan base. Oh,
we're tired of this nine.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
But can you imagine if they lose, they're they're underdogs
at home, Tony.
Speaker 7 (38:35):
Yes, and if they lose, it'll be Ah, it's the
same narrative. We're not very good. Forget about last week,
forget about this last month. You lost another playoff game.
And I know his players don't want that. They want
to win for him. I sense that Uh, the other
most of these other teams, you've got new coaches, new faces,
everybody's just excited and ramped up.
Speaker 9 (38:58):
Maybe Matt Lafleur.
Speaker 7 (39:00):
Uh, you've been in the playoffs a few times and
you've you've had some upsets earlier on.
Speaker 9 (39:05):
But now where are we. Let's let's let's get this
thing going.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Great to talk to you, Happy New Year. Great to
see you again.
Speaker 9 (39:11):
Thank you, buddy. I always good to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Tony Dungee
Hosts And Creators
Todd "Fritzy" Fritz
Dan Patrick
Patrick "Seton" O'Connor
Paul Pabst
Marvin Prince
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