Prince Aemon the Dragonknight (Part 2)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
We left you hanging with Amon hanging over a pit of vipers.
In the year, 161 the same year King daeron.
The first the young dragon was killed and Amon captured
alongside him last. We saw he was more concerned
with the life of the new king bail or than his own but from
the looks of things where we left off, Baylor felt the same

(00:29):
way. A in reverse and was more than
willing to Brave. Those vipers to save the famous
Dragon Knight, who would be about age 25 at this time today,
we discuss the remainder of Prince, a man's life, how he's
remembered what impact that has on those who came after.
In other words, his Legend, all the things that led to him

(00:51):
becoming a legend in the latter half of his life.
Contests with his brother affection for his sister and all
the mysteries in between. And more on this episode of
history of Westeros podcast. Hello and welcome.
My friends were back with another one and episode that was
so big that we had to split it into two.

(01:12):
It happens from time to time. That's a good sign.
When their story is so deep and Rich that we have that much to
talk about Sean. Welcome back.
What you got in the in your beverage Cup today, your
beverage Cup today, that's kind of a repetitive, isn't it?
And this is a new bang flavor. New to me.
Anyway. Guava pair, guava pair.
Well, that's yeah, very naked. Rather drink it out of a

(01:36):
beverage pole. The beverage ball.
Yeah, I guess you're right. I was thinking the, the cup part
was repetitive, but now there's other types of cups to like.
Yeah, the ones for measuring andFalls.
That's Ryan's garments. No man.
Should I should drink out of this goal on an episode.
One time wildly numbers, Yeah, blackmont, I guess.

(02:02):
Whack my yeah, not Prince a mistake.
Yeah. I don't think he would do that.
The guy in the Nights Watch whenI have, oh yeah.
Was that Carl or? Yeah.
Carl, that's it. Carl.
Yeah, Janelle. And he drink from someone's
skull, kid, from G. Or is it more months?
Even yes. Yeah, silly man, that he is.
I love that dues acting his the way, his eyes.

(02:22):
Just go, so dead. He was good in the expanse to if
y'all didn't see the expanse. That's right.
A chance to plug the expanse andAlways Sunny in Philadelphia.
That's Right? He was in an episode of It's
Always Sunny in Philadelphia theGame of Thrones Sunny connection
has many tentacles, hmm. He'd shout out to our good
friend, Nina, good Queen Ali, lots of good in there like her

(02:45):
writing, which is very good thisweek on her blog, a comparison
of the Knight of the Laughing tree and the night of Tears,
lots of parallels and you were like, you might be wondering who
the night of Tears is you almostcertainly know the Knight of the
Laughing tree. Well, the idea of the night of
Lavender, you may not know the identity of the Knight of the
Laughing tree because that is anopen question.
Although we all have some guesses, I think, strong

(03:07):
guesses, but the night of the tears night of Tears, isn't
mystery Knight anecdote from today's episode.
So, if you do not know who the night of Tears is well we shall
be getting into it in the secondhalf of today's episode and then
check out Nina's blog to see whythe parallel is so good.
We'll be touching on it, brieflytoday as well.
He's getting you started on thatidea.

(03:27):
Does the night in tears? Have a nemesis day, man?
Good night of kleenexes. Yeah, so night of laughter,
yeah, this episode was voted on by patrons.
Next week is trial by Theory. So Now's the Time start sending
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Whether you came up with him or not, doesn't have to be your
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(03:51):
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Keep in mind that a lot of them will be.
New to Sean entirely but that's cool.
Some that maybe you would want to get his reaction on and a lot
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and Fire as far as spoilers for that, but let's keep the hot

(04:13):
despoilers down for a Sean purposes and we're going to be
giving some stuff away. We're going to be giving away
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definitely for sure, it's, we'refiguring that out.
But yeah. So that'll be fun.
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The theory fun as always, if today's episode ends and you
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(04:34):
suggestions for topics related to this one at the end.
Also, at the end is the answer to this tribute question, which
I will read you right now who did Jaime Lannister described as
half as big, but twice as mad asthe mountain that rides.
Yes, this person also had a nickname not as long as the

(04:56):
mountain that rides but But few people do have nicknamed that
long. Let's talk about the rescue
here, but first, I have to back up and point out that I made a
small error last week. Luckily, that small error was
right before this part, so we can correct it pretty easily.
What we discussed was whether ornot Amon new bail or was on his

(05:19):
walk. Well, he definitely knew Baylor
was on his walk because when Baylor was walking down to
sunspear, a man was already in the cage, they'd already put him
out there. So Baylor passed by him and was
like, Let him go. And they're like, nah, we're not
going to let him go. Let him go.
Please let him go and he, like, they're like, man, and a man's,
like, just go. Just go go, keep doing your

(05:40):
walk. And he's like, okay, I'm gonna
come back for you though. The reason that's crucial is
because when he came back, the peace deal had been agreed and
then the order had come to let him go.
Then they had to let him go but they still did their Chic a
Nuri, which gets us to this point, we're at now.
So the only question was whetheror not a man knew it was
happening and if they lied him, but apparently no question at

(06:01):
all. He Was there which means he was
in that cage in the Sun for quite a while.
It's worth noting that he still might have been in that cage or
otherwise in some sort of imprisoned at limbo for a long
time for bail or to even get from King's Landing to Dorne.
Right? If you walk from King's Landing
to Dorne at still would have been a long time for a man to

(06:22):
not know what was coming out of known until Baylor showed up.
It may have fun with your rice there.
Still may have been a long period of like two months or
something before, you know. But anyway but Dad Would have
been like what's gonna happen when he comes back.
What's going to happen when he walks there?
And of course the walk back is when it really got to a level of
anxiety for a lot of people because I like what at Baylor
dies at right, after this peace deal and then the peace deal is

(06:45):
gone. But of course, he didn't die on
the way, got to the cage and this time he's like all right I
had to leave last time this time.
I'm not walking away without youand here we go with the quote.
Let's see what happens bail or Was Bitten.
Half a dozen times while Crossing to the cage and though
he opened it, he nearly collapsed before the Dragon

(07:06):
Knight was able to thrust open the door and pull his cousin
from the pit. The wills are said to have laid
Wagers as Prince Amon, struggledto climb out of the cage with
bail or flung across his back. And perhaps it was their cruelty
that spurred him to climb to thetop of the cage and leap to
safety Prince Amon. Carried bail or halfway down the

(07:30):
bone way before a Stepped in in the dornish mountains.
Gave him clothing and an ass on which to carry the comatose
King. I'm sorry, there's some ass.
Yeah, you did well. Here's some ass.
That's like he had some ass. All right, okay.

(07:53):
It's about thinking about ass eventually a mom reached the
watchtowers of the done darian'sand then was conducted to Black
Haven. Where the local Meister cared
for the king as best as he could, for sending them on to
storms end for further treatmentand all the while it is said
Baylor, was wasting away, still lost to the world and all the
while to set of share was laughing away, I'm just gonna

(08:18):
still think about this. I just imagine likes and Rick
see him here drawing like an asswould bail or just like lovingly
nestled between his cheeks unconscious as it meanders
northwards. Desert.
Okay, we did it. We made it through.
That was, that was probably about as tough as it was for
Eamon get through. He really struggled.

(08:43):
So, it's actually some interesting things here, it
sounds like an action scene, youknow what it is, but there's
some interesting like character stuff within this short moment.
One thing is just a man's intensity in his drive to
continue and his hardcore ability to maintain his stamina
throughout this and Of course, they lowers bravery as well.

(09:04):
And maybe foolishness throwing away, his potentially throwing
away the peace deal, that he just worked so hard to get.
That somebody's lives depend on.However, I shall speak not ill
of Baylor and his dedication to peace and bravery, and I really
like the way this is written. It says, perhaps it was their
cruelty that spurred him to climb to the top of the cage and
leap to say. Because one thing it's like, I

(09:25):
do struggle sort of to imagine how this could have happened,
like how he could have done this, maybe he shook the cage
and got a little momentum. Something to get it, moving back
and forth and that enabled it. But regardless of how I do, it's
not really important to figure out how logistically was
possible. I like the idea that cruelty
spurred him on because that's like his life.
His brother is really cruel and he's always under his shadow.

(09:49):
And we wonder, maybe that's justa metaphor or a big part of
what's been fueling him throughout his life as he
responds to Cruelty by doing Doing the opposite by just
leaping into action. In this case, pretty literally,
leaping by doing what's necessary to save the person
that's the target of the crueltyand, you know, and day-to-day

(10:11):
life. That was his sister here.
It's much more dramatic and violent and memorable but it's a
similar kind of energy. Just two people picking on
someone that can't do anything about it.
And there are good per like a good person being picked on by
like tough strong. Guys were just laughing at them.
It's like he's a conduit for Cosmic Karma.
We're villainy is the more heroic he needs.

(10:34):
Yeah, that's a great way to put it like a like a lens for
goodness for like you you filtercruelty and he will flip it into
goodness. Yeah, I like that.
That's great. You know.
Yeah, he's a crystal to repeat what we said last time, a little
bit of remind ourselves rather that.
Yeah, they really did Prince of sunspear would not have wanted

(10:55):
anything bad to happen to bail or after that.
Especially after the marriage Arrangement was made, he did
arranged. Darren ironically another dare
on the Darren invaded them and then they're going to marry.
The second are on to fix all that up.
We of course get the laughter and the wills doing their thing.

(11:15):
We talked about the history there but also just how anxious
a man must have been. I mean that's a long walk or
long traversal on the ass there,to get to this Village.
It couldn't have been going quickly.
Asses aren't known for their speed.
He'd I don't know about that. He must have just been really

(11:36):
worried that any second. Now, the king would die and
you're the kingsguard, probably not Lord Commander yet.
I'm thinking this incident was part of what got him promoted.
I'm guessing the Lord Commander died in that Ambush.
I mean, there were like three ofthem were killed.
Another one surrendered, the onewho surrendered probably wasn't
Lord, Commander Eamon wasn't theLord Commander, that's five

(11:58):
right there. There's only two other
kingsguard. The odds that the Lord Under of
All the King's Guard wasn't there at this.
Parlays pretty unlikely. Maybe he was stabbed in the back
by a my so that he could move upthe ranks but no one's looking,
massive plan. A good guy.
When I'm not, when they're not looking, I stab people in the
back. Yeah, and Nina's points out the

(12:18):
wills were where there's a, will, there's a way.
Yeah, they're just use the word willing which so we both got a
pun in there. But they're still willing to do
this, to take this risk, despitebeing ordered to release a human
and to not harm Baylor like, well, we didn't harm Baylor, he
walked into that pit of his own accord.

(12:40):
They're really, the lawyers are really argue over this one.
If it went to court, right? Well, technically, we didn't,
you know, no one pushed him in the pit, we didn't make him go
in no one, you know, it wasn't. So they would have their way to
argue that. They didn't do it and of course,
they have their mountain castle.That's not the easiest thing to
Punish them for things that theydo.

(13:00):
It's like Darkstar. Imagine how hard it in a dark
star win against the orders and perform treason.
But now Doran Martell is like well we got to get him for that
but he recognizes that it will be very difficult to punish
Darkstar for what he did becauseof his mountain castle and the
wills have a similar situation. So they knew they had a little
leeway to pull a fast one here, but they would have been totally

(13:21):
fine. If War had started back up
again, because of it, because that's just the type of people,
they are. There.
Am Archer House war is what Theyknow.
Well, they don't like peace withthese storm, Landers and with
the targaryens and keep in mind.Arrogant, few Nobles might be
fine with Warwick. A lot of that.
The average person conscripted into the army that gets killed
is not so fine when I'm sure some of them would probably

(13:43):
still be into it because they'rebought into it but you're right
loving me like this again. Come on.
I want to move. They can I go live somewhere
else? No actually you probably can't.
It's hard to move. I think we talked about it at
least a little bit. I think it's worth reiterating.
Now, what is swing? It is for them to Baylor is King
versus someone else. I just don't like anyone else.
Yeah, this guy's like a pacifist.

(14:04):
Trying to make peace almost any of the others are plotting to
attack you even if they don't, actively do it.
They're trying to find a way, right?
They're definitely not trying toget peace on the borders or set
up trade kind of figure out if or when they can attack where
Baylor is actively specifically trying to be peaceful, it may be
a few War mongers, you know, won't care a recognize that but

(14:26):
I feel like why is there Their hearts wiser heads or whatever
should see the value in this. It's such a swing especially to
because if they were to kill himthere's just no way the next
person could even be passive or patient about attacking
balancer. The second king and like one
year or something like holyrood action, even if it was

(14:48):
borderline suicidal they would just have to do it so it would
blame him. Yeah, because that's because
this point Baylor is becoming popular.
Like the car is one of the commons would call for war,
which is ironic given Baylor stood for, but the Baylor place
to have it, he's like no. You guys didn't understand
anything. Penny.
I said damn it. I mean, darn it.
This is kind of going back to last week when the first

(15:10):
engagement would Dorn started, it would have been the first
real violence war that a man would have seen, right?
That guy. It's probably yeah, sometimes
glossed over specialized components or something, you
know, but yeah, but no war. Yeah, it may be in this world.
People are more used to death, they're more cold-hearted or

(15:31):
whatever. But, but anyway, I just feel
like They're probably would havebeen a shift in am on as a
person having actually killed, someone having had friends die
in front of them. You know, the reality of war and
violence. I can't detect necessarily
through. What we know that there was a
change in him, but I got to imagine there was, yeah, he's

(15:51):
just too conscientious of person.
He's not, he's not he's willing to do violence but he's not one
of those guys that like, aims for it wants to fight, you know,
maybe he likes fighting back killing, you know, like like an
iron. Yeah enjoys sword, sword play.
Doesn't actually enjoy killing but just involves you know likes
competition likes the joy of maxing out and sweating and

(16:12):
doing everything you can. Some people might feel, you
know, this obligation to protectthe king, yes, or the realm but
protecting serving and protecting his different going
out and at warring against someone else, since and another
love, unprovoked war your the violence because coming from you
would think that there may have been some marketing like my

(16:33):
yeah. Yeah like propaganda, right?
Like fresh wave of issues with door.
Like, you know, those doors people.
You know what I was thinking about was wrong with them, you
know? Just like things today to get
people fired up. Yeah, the kind of stuff you
would see the newspapers we printing.
If there were newspapers, another angle to this long, what
you said, Sean about the determination and Kings dying.
Like this would have been the third if Baal or dies would have

(16:54):
been Third King, the died since he joined the King's Guard and
again, he's only 25 now. No one's going to blame him for
egg on the third who died of tuberculosis but Darren dying.
It An ambush in the same realm in a pretty far away from where
the Ambush probably happened butstill it happened and it wasn't
that long ago. So while Baylor was full of

(17:14):
faith and poison a man was full of adrenaline and really it also
just shows the thing about Baylor of will come talk about
him, some more dark and his own episode.
Like was he crazy because of hiswalker.
Was he crazy already? Because like he really
apparently just believe the Vipers wouldn't fight him which
is just. Yeah, there's that's just nuts.
I mean what What's on your mind there, man?

(17:35):
Those are those vipers are real.Like he thought the singers, say
the Vipers didn't bite him at all, but of course, it's the
quote says, no, they did. He might have had a vision.
I just want to point out, we have to think about that, even
if he might even not so much. Believe they won't bite me, but
I know, I won't die to him. I know I'm not going to die,
because he had a vision myself doing some other things.

(17:57):
However, the bad, this might seem, I have to go through this
and I have this confidence faithand I won't die next.
Super interesting in that regardbecause we know Visions are a
thing of the targaryens and dreams.
But this is a guy who was like so anti like draconic stuff.
He was so into the seven. So his Visions would maybe be
filtered through that lens or yeah.
Yeah, but you're right. He fasted a lot during his Reign

(18:20):
which that causes visions and some people and he may have that
may have just inflamed the wholething in a good way or a more
dreamy way mean also points out how similar some of this is at
least in terms of of how dramatic and epic it is not
necessarily in terms of how it went down, but the rescue of
Aries From Dusk and Dale by barristan, selmy, which, you

(18:45):
know, a man who Bears the wasn'thanging in a cage all that time
and but it is kind of unbelievable and in terms of how
badass it was, you know, like wow, that's a really amazing
like the songs sound like it's exaggerating it but like Yandell
says that the songs don't need to exaggerate because it's It is
that impressive without embellishment you know you don't

(19:06):
need to add a thing to it because it's are like dude
already scaled the walls of afford by himself, got into the
dungeon and carried the king outon a whore like by himself.
Like that's incredible. Tougher than to hang in a cage
thing, right? Like it because even if he was
hanging in a cage there's still like everyone was like go ahead.

(19:27):
If you can figure it out. It's more like he had to figure
out a riddle or something. Yeah, rather than like actually
face. This all the guards and walls
it, you know, under the threat of danger, the whole ways.
Yeah, we have an episode on deskand also the full of very full
telling of it, is there this, this defines the desk and deal
with Aries and barristan, one, funny thing, just an anecdote

(19:48):
from that is Tywin, was going tostorm the city and there were
like was done with this negotiation and they well
they're just going to kill the king and he's like oh well Sarah
he's like he didn't say that butthey're like we got Rengar right
here. Y'all like think of the think of
the good side here Barris is like let me get it give me a As
to go rescue him and I was like can't say no to this guy but
what are the odds he actually succeeds you know like Natalia.

(20:09):
Like are you kidding me? This dude, succeeded God, he
really did. Yeah so that might be what's
going here. The wheels are like he really
like we can expect a man to do like.
We thought this was going to fail like oh well they probably
stepped laughing anyway though. I got a hat.
We're how did he do that? They might have just literally
been impressed and entertained. Yeah, they were laughing.

(20:29):
Yeah, we're good job. Yeah.
That's why we didn't cut his hands and feed off.
Yeah. So Baylor took six months to
recover. Presumably the saris a man
aegon's dad. An Aries.
His dad was still ruling his hand which while he was still
wearing his hand. He presumably didn't really skip
a beat much because he was already doing all the work.

(20:52):
Well, Baylor was on his walk. So this just extended that
interim and frankly, throughout most of Baylor, was range of
Sarah's did most of the day-to-day stuff anyway and had
done most The day-to-day stuff touring dare on the first rain
and had done, most of the day-to-day stuff during his
brother aegon the third's rain. So he was really used to this
and the kingdom was probably better for it in a lot of ways.

(21:17):
And but I really think this is abonding opportunity.
You got a Pious dedicated kingsguard who's a member of
Baylor's family, right, their cousins and you've got Baylor
recovering and eamon's just probably anxious about whether
he's going. To survive and make it and I
think they would, this will be abonding experience experience

(21:39):
experiment. Well, that too there, there in a
village in the middle of nowhere.
I guess or at storms end eventually for part of the time
and just months of just hanging out, he's recovering.
They would talk about the gods and faith and stuff.
I would think they got close. What do you think?
Sean is that, you know, does it seem like a stretch at all?
Does it know for sure? I mean, I lucky if this was like

(22:02):
a series hanging, If they made ashow or movie out of this to me
be. In fact I would be okay with
just that just like a very cinematic dramatic epic of him
making this Trek on foot and maybe like a little episodic
encounters along the way coming back and in conversations with
him with the two of them, no action needed.

(22:23):
You know the only action is jumping in the towers.
I'm jumping out of the cage or whatever.
I would love just I don't know like a very character-driven.
Yeah, short film. That whole episode, you know,
we're so well for like holy stuff because it's in a desert
like it's already what we associate the modern world with
a lot of religious Traditions coming out of the desert.
Like a lot of the major ones associate with with deserts and

(22:47):
regions like that. It's kind of fitting like an
understanding and a lot of other.
I do mythological stories include someone, traveling
through the desert, searching their inner soul, or whatever I
mean. Yeah, totally on.
And on with that. Yeah.
Characters have gone through this scenario and how
interesting nose Stories are butI think George is probably
thinking about. When you wrote this, I mean, it
already fits into his world Dorne being what it is.

(23:08):
Having the deserts You got to think that Baylor has not really
had a chance to rain yet, like he became king and immediately
said about resolving. The storm situation.
Took his shoes off, started walking right by the way, that's
another thing about this. The he walked into that pit of
vipers without shoes. Hasn't really had that much
crazy to the let's already crazy.
It's like that's only slightly crazier.
Guess if you're feeling any guys, like, oh, he didn't have

(23:30):
shoes. Oh my God, like he walked for
like six months without shoes. His feet were probably Leather
by then. Yeah.
He's like, nah, my feet are too tough for these vipers to bite
through. When, if that's the way for the
story being exaggerated to like,he didn't technically have shoes
on, but you had some sort of binding wrapped up for some
level of protection. Yeah.
Maybe maybe it helped make it through the hot desert sand or

(23:53):
rocky areas, but still the Vipers are going to bite through
that or up on your knee and not with God on your side.
Yeah, no, I'm good. Hey man, himself had been
poisoned too if we recall he hadtaken that poison arrow.
You jumped in front of so he knew what the experience was

(24:13):
like. So so yet another thing that he
could like bond with Baylor's like yeah I know what it's like
to be poisoned cuz you know, it's terrible.
It's socks, man. I know I know I get it and he
was and Baylor was more poisonedand way, less strong of a man.
Like this is a frail dude, compared to the big strong
Dragon Knight. I wonder how much they inspired
each other. Yeah, I think a lot I'm guessing
a lot like at the point they aimon get Baylor on the way down.

(24:38):
He's already traveled a long way.
Yeah. Right.
And probably was going to make it anyway but there's probably a
little extra Drive. He's like, I have to survive, I
have to go faster. Yeah, like a mom's waiting in a
cage right now. I like, is this extra pressure
on him point? And when he gets back, hey, mon
is probably like, hey, really, went down a hallway and got
back, like, I have to save him. I can't let him have gone all

(25:01):
this way for me and in, not savehim now myself.
So like I bet they both inspiredMotivating each other to go
beyond what they would have done.
Yeah. Like a man would be impressed
with Baylor's dedication and howhe managed to survive being such
a small dude. And, you know, he's not like him
and I was like, well, I'm big and strong.
I can kind of understand how person like me maybe could
survive, but this dude's not no good with a sword.

(25:22):
He's small. It's more impressive.
In a lot of ways. He doesn't have the the tool set
for survival like a dragon knight does.
So yeah, that, that is a different sort of Bravery, like,
kind of like how Brienne broke down the different types of
Bravery, like, it's not bad. Courage.
But, you know, he ceases a woman's courage, which is, you
know, whatever that means in that context she had a strong
point behind that. It's a little similar here, you

(25:44):
know? Yeah.
I don't know what you need to call it woman's currently, if
you attach gender to it but in that I've got her in my it.
Yeah. No I get why they do it, it's
setting. But if we're trying to put a
modern lens on it, it's not necessary to put gender on.
It didn't sound the best coming from us right now, but within
this world like, yeah, son, still lives a different life
than Rob. Yeah, definitely.

(26:04):
Yeah, but it doesn't mean there's no curse courage require
dental and not like really understands that Brandon has
seen kind of, I don't know. I want to say both sides the
world but there's more than two sides of the world, but but both
sides of the roles of how courage can play out.
Yeah, absolutely. And so this is maybe a similar
moment here where they're reflecting and respecting each
other's version of courage and all the ways that could take,

(26:26):
and that would be something to really discuss in the, at the
dawn of a new era, you've got a new king, who's got to decide
how he wants to rule, and that'skind of what I was.
Going when we got a little sidetracked, but well with a
good story, good thing to talk about.
But what I wanted to get at was he doesn't yet know what kind of
King he's going to be. He probably didn't grow up in.
He was going to be king. He was the Second Son of very

(26:48):
Marshall capable young TargaryenPrince.
It looked like daeron the young dragon would have kids one day
and yeah, so bail or probably didn't see this coming unless he
dreamt of it that aside as possible.
There's always that. So he's out here thinking about
how he wants to rule and maybe making Hands while he's
recovering and haman's, right there.
A guy who's maybe of like mind is him and maybe a man was

(27:13):
helping him, make some decisionsabout how he would want a ruler.
At least giving him ideas, at least giving him someone to look
up to and be like we want more. I want the realm to produce more
people like you. Amen.
And aim is like, well, I want the realm to produce more people
like you Baylor, you know and Some of that was good.

(27:36):
Most of it was good. Probably on the other hand, some
of it wasn't. Some of the definitely wasn't
because Baylor made a lot of decisions that weren't thought
through that. Maybe that he had the goodness
in his mind, but couldn't see from an engineering perspective,
how it would actually work. You know, like if you make this
decision, it's going to cause more violence, was it?

(27:56):
Yes. But if we stop using Ravens for
carrying messages and use only white birds than everyone's,
well, why do you want to do this?
Well, because Black birds are evil to their symbols of the old
gods and they have all their messages like yeah.
But the white birds don't know how to carry message.
They just literally can't do that.
You can't just make them do that.
Like you can't just switch that we gonna paint the Ravens white.

(28:19):
I mean yeah this is to see this is that's just lunacy.
Right? On the other hand you wonder if
it's coming from a place of Truth like yeah those Messengers
used to those Ravens used to speak and it's the old it is the
old gods that's powering that sort of And maybe that creeped
him out and bought that, you know, that's blasphemous or I
don't know, still a bad idea to just do away with the Ravens and

(28:42):
try to replace them with the white Ravens.
But maybe there was really, maybe it's more to it than him
just thinking, oh, this is Blasphemous.
You know, there may have been a real Vision behind all that,
like, even if the birds really were evil like so far, they're
just carrying our messages. Yeah.
So, let's just, you know, maybe we need to get rid of them, but
let's get a better system in place first rather than white

(29:03):
Ravens, it just won't work. Life gets the Pony Express going
or something, you know are we even sure that the birds are
real point now with where someone like bail or you can't
be sure what's real and what isn't this guy seeing things?
All over the place. Now you're on your wonder what
aim is thinking is Amy just polite.
Like, yes, your grace. That's a great idea or if he's
actually trying to talk some sense into him or if he's all

(29:26):
for it, like maybe aim is a little crazy to we don't know
for sure. Like at the end of these episode
I'm gonna ask the question. Did we fall for him to did we
fall for his Legend, are we likeexaggerating the deeds in the
same way that Sansa and bring our?
Where did we fall for it? To is this, we unpack this a
little more and then we'll maybeit's some of this is
exaggerated, I don't know, I don't know, maybe probably know,

(29:46):
I lean towards this. Being a lot of it being accurate
him really being this amazing but if it's anything, we've
learned from the way George rice.
That's lot of times. Even the good stories are
exaggerated the bad stories. Can be exact all the stories can
be exaggerated. Also, you can do a lot of
amazing and good things and alsodo a lot of bad things or be a
bad person while doing quote-unquote amazing.

(30:07):
Things like what did Amon think of look with one of the first
things that happened when Baylorgets back to King's Landing.
Is he locks up his sisters in the made involved his three
sisters that one of whom he had been married to and he's like
well we never consummated it andhe made the septon on, do it
becomes unmarried it has no plans on getting married or
having children. Which of course in a monarchy is

(30:28):
problematic, but Amon may have been all for it.
He may have been supportive of this, he may have been like yeah
like especially seeing how way his sister was treated by their
brother he might have been like yeah this is good but he met
this is a tough one. I don't know what he may have
been completely against locking his cousin's up like that.
That's like well this isn't the solution like why why is it
their fault. He might have been really torn

(30:49):
here like he might have even been really against it or
frustrated or confused by but also just saved my My life.
I don't know like how much I canpush him around.
Like he's, you know, something he walked across the desert with
no shoes you survived the snake bikes saved my life.
Like what if he believed that his mid?
What if he does claim? It's based on visions and a
man's like well, who am I to question these visions that came
from, the gods seems wrong, but it's all part of God's plan that

(31:12):
kind of attitude, you know, you can see him taking that.
Hmm. A man could have had a vicious
to yeah. Yeah.
Maybe you might you might be right.
We don't, we honestly haven't asked that question but there's
no reason to discard that idea on the top.
Like, yeah. Absolutely possible.
Maybe he just doesn't even speakabout it or maybe just isn't
recorded by the way as well. I don't I don't want to just
assume everyone had Visions all the time but it's a new thing to

(31:35):
consider who might have. And so I have to at least pause
on it for each person but I haven't thought about before is
that makes yes. Yes, that's one thing that's
tricky about this is when we're dealing with this area.
There's so many interesting characters and we're missing
some large chunks of their personality and how what they
thought of certain people is were yeah, we're how to
reconcile things that It seem conflicted in certain ways, like

(31:57):
we just don't know, we guess that Amon and Baylor had a lot
in common. They saw a lot of things
eye-to-eye, but there's certain these decisions.
It's hard to say whether a man would have agreed or just kept
his mouth shut or actually spokeit up because he did speak up
against his brother. Sometimes it's clear, he's
willing to do that. Even if it's not necessarily
something, he would have done toBaylor specifically where is, he
definitely did it to his brothertalk about nerys.

(32:19):
Speaking of his sister this is another thing that a man might
have been very grateful to King bail or four which is the way
nerys was treated versus the waynerys was treated pretty much
under all the other kings which is that she has stillborn twins
in the first year of Baylor was rain.
And Nares was frail. Like the first time she had a

(32:42):
child, which was Darren back in 153.
So, eight years prior the maester said she's too frail.
She shouldn't have any more kidsand Nares is like, hey I've done
my duty to you as wife. Let's just be brother and sister
from now on and a Gonzaga has tobe clear their guns.
Like we are living as brother and sister because they're
targaryens like real snotty response there.
So he wanted to keep sleeping with her even though he openly

(33:05):
didn't like it, he didn't like sleeping with her because she
was Pious and presumably wasn't into it.
Okay go figure yeah thank you with him you know as I like him
he was having sex with other people.
He's sleeping around so he didn't feel like he was like
couldn't have sex. If it wasn't with her you know
which isn't which also isn't even a good reason, but it
wasn't even that he was Around all over the place, didn't even

(33:27):
like sleeping with Nares, but still wanted to like, have that
power over her. No wonder Amon, didn't like his
brother. No wonder most people didn't
like egg on the Baylor with Baylor and charge things were a
little different, Dale ours. As usual didn't have a strong
response to thing. He didn't punish anyone core, he
just saw this as a God's will sohe fasted and response to these

(33:49):
deaths which he did that a lot. He fasted in response to a lot
of tragedies and just in generalJust fasted, that's just thing.
He fasted. And so, of course, a man would
want to grieve with her and comfort her and help her out and
get through this, which would have terrible mean, losing a
child is terrible. This is two children, but at the

(34:12):
same time, I mean, that's hard to Fathom.
But in and of course, a gun would not have been.
He would have just been horrible.
He probably was like, yeah, I'm going to have mold just try
again, you know, I'm gonna have more kids with you.
So Baylor step to he did do something.
It was a little like he do move here.
He sent aegon to braavos on a diplomatic Mission.
Why him? Why Prince aegon to get rid of

(34:33):
him? He obviously wasn't the right
man for the job. Of course, what does he do?
He starts an affair with the Black Pearl and has one, two,
three children with her and thisaffair lasts up to 10 years,
which might mean egg on spent a lot of time in Bravos.
He may have spent significant time there which would have been
a real Relief for Nares and Amon.

(34:57):
This brings you back to when I started this point.
Was that another thing for a manto be like whatever Baylor
wants? I will do whatever he wants
because he's just done so much for things that I care about.
Even if I disagree with him on his other things, he's done so
much for me personally and yeah,that Bond will be strong and a
man's Duty first kind of guy. Anyway, as we've seen like, even
though we have questions about his personality, pretty hard to

(35:19):
argue against that, but he isn'ta duty first, kind of guy, this
is our duty and love come to Whether it's his duty to be
loving and caring to his sister.In this time of grief and the
absence of a gun would be a relief, helping them grieve
without interference. So, might have been Nares.
This best stretch of life when her brother was gone, which is

(35:40):
ironic because she just lost children, but was a 10-year
stretch here. So maybe after The Grieving was
over, I mean she probably never be fully done with that grief,
but a certain point you would bemay be okay again.
At least Once one of the Kings was taking an interest in her
caring about her welfare and that would have been nice for a
change. Darren probably didn't care
about her much at all. Aegon the third didn't really

(36:02):
care about hardly anyone. He was just kind of mopey and
depressed and was a pretty decent King, but he was not a
guy to expect sympathy from. He wasn't really didn't really
have that kind of emotional energy didn't have that capacity
in him. He was too traumatized.
I suppose a man, however, would have been there for her and
that's all the more reason that he would have to be there for
her. Because who else would be?
So this is kind of like a, I don't know like a gods.

(36:23):
Squad. You have forming here.
You have a bunch of Pious peoplethat are in control here.
Your bail or King, You've Nares,the princess later, Queen who's
very Pious, a man's very Pious and you presumably have young
Darren, who is aegon son, who isnow betrothed to Mariah Martel
after the walk and he's young. At this point, he's eight in the

(36:47):
year. 161, he's coming of age during Baylor's rain, and he
really took after bail or he's part of the reason.
Got along with his father, aegonthe Unworthy, because he's more
like Baylor or Amon more like bail or because he's not
Marshall, he's not a fighter. So more like Baylor the neyman,
but didn't want his kids to marry each other was big on the
seven. His nickname ended up, being
dare on the good so kind of see where that's going.

(37:08):
But he's also the one the black fires challenge for being too
dornish and to pacifistic and tonot Targaryen even though he was
Targaryen, that's another story.So I have to think that you can,
it's no wonder that whenever it came around.
Round to name a new batch of kingsguard considering bed been
killed in Dorne. The Naaman was made, Lord

(37:30):
Commander just makes sense, given the closeness to Baylor
and the fact that his dad is thehand of the king year, your
cousin, who you just got to knowreally well.
And he saved his life is the king and your dad is Hand of the
king and you probably deserved it.
So you got the nepotism and the resume.
So, you know, all the factors, you know, another thing to keep

(37:50):
in mind, as you're calling this,Fear of the god Squad, with
those people in those positions,it's likely many other people
peppered around them would be Pious to.
Yeah, we're at least Circle, pretend to be Pious for the sake
of getting, or maintaining the positions on the small Council
or whatever else. You know, people would realize.

(38:12):
I'm more likely to get in the kingsguard.
Yeah, if I'm more Pious King andthen the dragon Prince or Pious,
well, I guess I better at least pretend to fall in line with
that so he got dark sister back at some point.
To I can't imagine that they just let him keep it in the cage
with him while he was chilling but clearly you got it back.
I don't know. We don't know how but we talked
about it in the Lost Valyrian steel episode was Tommy Pappas

(38:35):
along with the crown of aegon. The Conqueror, there was worn by
Darren and blackfyre. They didn't give those back.
So that's an interesting story. One of them came back, the other
two did. Yeah.
Nein also wonders about the reign of Baylor and what Amon
thought about it on one hand Baylor's.
Strict with me to peace with Doran, would have immediately
put down any question of a man showing off martial skills and
bat. Which may have frustrated him if

(38:55):
he wanted to show off, but on the other hand, you may not have
been that type. You may not have cared about
showing off, we just don't know.On the other hand, a man,
clearly demonstrated a sense of piety to the faith of the seven,
did he appreciate having a king?On the Iron Throne new,
prioritize the faith? Good open question there, too.
Because King Baylor sent egg on a diplomatic mission to Bravo's
after Nares nearly died. In childbirth is pretty, would
have been a rare opportunity fora man in Aries, to spend time

(39:17):
together without the cloud of aegon hanging over them both.
And because a man was both a kingsguard and marries his
brother, he was Has perfectly placed intercede between Aires
and the King. Yeah, you wonder if this just
inflamed aegon's belief later ifhe started getting his head like
oh you too cheating on me together.
This time that he wasn't there to witness it, maybe in his mind

(39:37):
he got it. That's the time that they were
most cheating, you know, when hewasn't there, but who knows?
Now it's also possible that a man suggested this to bail bail,
or may have just been, like, youknow, would be smart to just
send egg on away and medic Mission, that'll get him out of
Aries is hair for a while, but maybe the idea was suggested by
some of the, maybe even a man was like, Hey King, you know, my

(39:59):
brother would make an excellent choice for this envoi.
You're looking to send to Bravo's, you know, and bailers
like, yes, good idea. Mmm.
Yeah, yeah, it is possible, thatBaylor, remember, I was thinking
how I am on, might have like gone along with some stuff that
bay lower did, even though I didn't like it that much because
he saved his life. Mmm.
Yeah. Baylor, might be the same way

(40:20):
bail or also felt like a monsterthis way?
Life and he might have him on. Might have had some extra
pulled. Another thought I had is I
wonder how many of these things are bail or did they were kind
of - and it we even like maybe question am on a little bit for
going along with her supporting,you know, as Kings or whatever.
I wonder if maybe it would have been worse, if not for a month.
Yeah, if Baylor went to lock up,all the women in the red kite of

(40:43):
a family members, you know, I, you know, maybe he's one of the
few people just until the man. Yeah, that's a great Point.
Actually, I maybe he was the voice of reason a mitigating or
The getting bored. He may not full voice of reason
but just tap it down a little bit there.
King crazy. Yeah.
Which brings us to another sort of off the pass.

(41:03):
Putting it nicely, it was calledcrazy.
He wanted to apparently go up against the non faithful.
He was thinking maybe of cuttingdown more where Woods maybe
going to war against the north maybe not war, but imposing
things on them that probably would have led to war, you know.
Like he wouldn't have declare I would have declared war on them
but maybe he would have more likely he would.
Have just imposed things that cause them to chafe and that may

(41:28):
have led to violence. So who it what would a man
fighting? This would a man, do you approve
of chopping down where Woods, orwould he approve of any of this
stuff about trying to bring the north into line with the faith
of the seven? That's a real tough one.
I feel like this might be one. He went along with because it's
a matter of not just the king but if the gods and who is he to

(41:50):
say? Otherwise, he might personally
object, but it'd be something. He just has to Go along with
because it's his duty. So not the kind of thing that he
would object to strongly enough to cause him to go against his
prime directive of Duty. This brings us to a curious but
difficult to place in the timeline.
Anecdote where we're told that aemon the dragonknight fought

(42:11):
against Lord creegan. It wasn't apparently a duel.
We're one of them was expected to die.
Where was a duel to the death? Neither of them died in this
duel, but we don't even know what it was fought over brand.
Mentions it casually in the Crepes while telling OSHA about
the different Starks and maesterLuwin is right there.

(42:32):
So, you know, that if Brands said something incorrect, he
would have corrected him. All right, he's like Brent
elosha about the different Starks, you know, it's like a
lesson and he says there's the crate Dragon.
There's Cregan Stark who fought against the dragon Night.
Dragon night said, he He never faced a finer sword, that's the
whole anecdote. We try to figure out when this
happened. We really don't know when it
happened. We don't know why.

(42:54):
Here's a few guesses, though. It could relate to Kragen's only
son and Heir at the time dying at the end of the first war in
Dorne and 157. Maybe a man, brought his bones
to him, and that caused some sort of problem.
Problem with that is aiming was laid up recovering from Poison
at the end of that point. So that doesn't really fit at
timing, doesn't work very well. Maybe it would say if he comes
later. Well, what would what's the

(43:16):
problem? What why what caused this duel
to be fought? Is it may be that they that
Starks felt. They were owed a Targaryen bride
and never got one. Creaking was mad about that he
demanded a duel for Honor littlebit like the Laughing storm.
Dueling Duncan the tall over theissue.
Another issue of Targaryen princess marriage.
Yeah or Prince marriage. Similar example, that could be

(43:39):
related. It may also still be the have,
for example, you gave like bringing The bones up but maybe
why did it take so long? Well, I was poison.
That's no excuse. He's been up there seething and
Winterfell will just waiting to challenge.
And finally, he comes, he makes this apology and creaking maybe
even wanted to understand and accept but he still had this in

(44:01):
her purse writer for the needed to get out or maybe just for
show of the other words of the north you know duel for on.
Yeah I suspect it was a duel forHonor because no one died, Terra
incognita and guilty. Undertaker say I'm thinking it
was maybe editor Male a pretty. Maybe that's exactly what I was
going to say. I wonder if they could have just
been at a tournament, which may still have had some of these

(44:22):
background frustrations coming out in the melee.
And I can also imagine if maybe at a distance through stories
with this family. Death involved.
There might have been some animosity, but they've never met
in person and when they finally do, they win each other's.
Respect through this combat. Maybe.
Yeah. That's, that's entirely
possible. I like the the melee tournament

(44:42):
idea. On the other hand, Starks aren't
really big. I get fighting and melees and
Cregan would have been like in his 40s or 50s by then, and I
don't know, like maybe join the melee because he knew a man
would be there. Yeah.
So it's a little exactly. Not off the table but that's a
little bit of a call that counter-evidence like Stark
sometimes, if I turn him into a plus, he's on the older sides
like old start fighting in a tournament is pretty unusual.

(45:05):
You know, almost any scenario has to have its own bit of
unusual. Yes, we do.
You're right. That's why it's a whole thing is
such a mystery. We can't like, yeah, can't
figure it out one day. Perhaps.
We will need a says, I like to imagine that.
It was partly a duel of Honor. Compare say, Rob and Joffrey
practice dueling. The oversight of Roderick Asal
during the Kings visit to Winterfell, showing off The
Heirs of both houses, as well asperhaps a bit of mild Vengeance

(45:28):
on the part of Cregan. I tend to headcanon that a man
was coming north to bring richens bones home to Winterfell
similar to the way Jon Arryn didfor Luann Martel to Doran early
in Roberts rain, Craig and may not have been truly angry at the
targaryens richens death. He himself had been willing to
go to war for the targaryens decades prior, but he may have
felt a great personal sense of loss and grief at the death of
his son, especially his only child by his Beloved first wife,

(45:52):
intern Craig and may not have been looking to hurt or kill a
man but may have wanted to exercise his grief and her
taught Targaryen willing to engage in a fight with him.
A sage on beating iron Emmett savagely even after the latter
yielded because he was thinking about Stannis has offer
Winterfell in his own complicated feelings towards
inheriting it yeah that's an interesting anecdote to bring up
John's like totally spacing out.While fighting an iron Emma

(46:14):
didn't realize he was wailing onhim.
This guy who's really good to like whoa what happened there?
You know, I just Into a battle friends, like Berserker mode
there. A man doesn't seem like the
Berserker mode type, but maybe Craig ensure was I, maybe I'm a
man was you know, he's got all that inner like rage that he's

(46:35):
constantly holding back and having to behave.
You could see him being one of those guys that's just holding
onto a lot of anger, and if he gets the chance to let it out,
it might come out a little quicker than he intended.
Of course, I prefer into anger towards his brother, or maybe
anger towards himself for failing to keep the king alive,
or I don't know, again the nuances Is of his personality
are not fully available to us. So, a lot of Baylor's rain is

(46:57):
super interesting, will be able to discuss it again, when we
talk about Baylor's, rain and may have a chance to Circle back
and add a few more details on towhat Amon may have been thinking
if new ideas come along, but let's move towards the end of
Baylor has rain and head to the next section of the timeline,
the near the end of day. Laura's Rain Prince Baal or was
born to Darren and Mariah. So the marriage that day Lord

(47:20):
had arranged by his walk for fruit in the form of a child.
A New Prince Baylor, this is thefuture bail or breaks
pierre-jean. The one in the Hedge Knight, who
dies, the end of hedge Knight. So we've connected another
timeline dot here. When you consider him but Prince
Baylor, breaks fear, and how great he was and how Noble he
was. It, sure.
Does kind of make sense that he grew up around the Dragon

(47:42):
Knight, right? It's another, this is probably
an influence. And even though the Dragon
Knight died before, Baylor wouldbe an adult The legend would
live on. Of course, the legend lives on
120 140 years later. It's definitely gonna live on
five years after his death. So especially amongst the family
is is the same family you're talking about.
This is your uncle or cousin or whatever.

(48:03):
So it's very likely impacted Baylor significantly in his
childhood and Beyond again, I want to point out the idea that
not just the legend of a man living on, but the people that
would have been put in place by a mon and bail or, and maybe
Nares would also probably Have been very had integrity and
morality and stuff that would have Baylor.

(48:26):
Would it come up under them? Yeah.
Yeah. Definitely.
The other kings guards who were protecting him.
We're probably of a mine with a mon.
Probably, what are, you know, whoever ends up being Baylor's,
Mentor is probably of a mine with a mon even if a man isn't
directly affecting a raising fail or people that would have
been put in place under the reign of Baal or name on, are
still there for Baylor through his hmm.

(48:48):
Good point. Not too long after the birth of
Baylor. Breaks beer came the birth of a
man who would become one of his chief Rivals, Damon Waters, who
was eventually renamed Daemon blackfyre?
And this was from Dana. The defiant and Hague on as a

(49:10):
name is brother. They were not, of course, not
married. They hooked up and Dana didn't
admit who the father was for a long time.
That doesn't mean there weren't strong.
Suspicions that doesn't mean people didn't know, just wasn't
openly stated aim in very possibly knew who the father was
because it was his brother and it may just like I said, a
marriage has been an Open Secretanyway, even though Dana refused

(49:31):
to admit it. Remember, Dana is the younger
sister of Baylor and Darren. The first Dana was married to
Baal or Baal or never consummated.
They were locked up in the maiden Vault Dana and her two
sisters so egg on got in somehowhook up with her and this child
was born, they didn't continue their Affair, aegon had his

(49:52):
famous 9 Mistresses and Dana wasnot one of them Dana, maybe
wised up and was like that is for instance, terrible, I don't.
Why am I hooking up with him whoprobably guarded the made
involves the kingsguard, right? So, if a man was kingsguard Lord
Commander by now, this would maybe be on his show.
Elders, as Mary a failure of hisCommand, right?

(50:15):
Those were his people guarding the door.
This may be fall on him, which might be a lot worse than you
think. Because what was Baylor's
response to his former wife, having a child out of wedlock
under his he fasted of coercing.Yes.
But he fasted hardcore, he died fasting.

(50:38):
So, does aemon blame himself forthis happen?
Does he blame himself for the king for this?
Failure of security that led to this child being born, that led
to this fasting that led to the death of the most Pious King
that Westeros would ever see before, or after, either way, I
think Amon took it hard. Maybe could I have done more
even if you didn't blame himself, he seems like the kind

(50:59):
of guy. What could I have done
differently? What could I have done to stop
this? Even if it's not his fault, the
guilt. The another king.
He's lost, right? And the one that probably meant
the most to him who real bad, right?
Real bad net. And with that it falls off and
he would also see the the changein leadership like no longer is
the his piety going to be numberone on the list.

(51:22):
No longer is pacifism going to be at the top.
You may not have been as the pipe pacifism.
May not have been as important to him.
Maybe it was the piety was. We can be pretty sure about that
especially cuz its sister was. So what would have been big on
that as well? Nope, that was over.
End of the god Squad perhaps notthat it wasn't still important.

(51:43):
It was still a big part of them holding on to power was playing
nice with the faith of the seven.
But it certainly would not have been as important with with
Baylor being gone, TK. Okay, podcast Network sends a
Super Chat, says love y'all. Well, the feeling is mutual,
Tommy Shaw, is that where I did?What's that place?
That were? I did because TK, okay, podcast

(52:03):
Network also, has new dad podcast and the next section
we're covering is Dad. Send.
Hey Dad. Right on.
That's true. Dad has a send viserys goes from
hand of the king for 20 years toking, a king, making his son and
Heir hand has been done before we've seen a lot of examples of

(52:25):
that, but if but quite a few of those times, it didn't actually
happen. Like the hand dyed before.
Like, in the case of the other aim and the son of Jerry's
analysis and who died in order that viserys would become king
later and Baylor or Bailey. Rather was hand as well and he
died prematurely. So in this case though it's the
throne passing from nephew to Uncle which is that's unusual.

(52:47):
In fact I don't think it's happened before or since not on
the Iron Throne. Anyway.
So that is that's that's a little strange but there's also
a possibility that viserys poisoned bail or that's an open
question, open rumor. Even though that's his own
nephew, it's possible because the idea was that Baylor was his

(53:08):
decisions his A way to push the faith was going to lead to
Violent was going to lead to Civil War even though he didn't
want it to his decisions became more and more erratic as he
appointed an eight-year-old has like high septon.
Yeah, he just got crazier and crazier.
So the ideas he was poisoned because his decisions were going
to lead to ruin, it makes sense.That doesn't mean it happens.

(53:29):
But again, what if a man knew about it, what if Amon found out
that his own father? Poisoned his Pious King that he
was close to, or what, if he supported it?
I can car find it hard to believe they.
It, but that has to be like, possible.
Given how little we know about the scenario.
What is this? How does this strike?
You? Sean is pretty pretty wild.
All these possibilities is very dramatic.
I've got three thoughts turn to me.

(53:50):
I probably gonna forget the throne before I get to it.
Best of luck to you. One is you remember in the
episode he did with daniele Bolelli about murderous families
over history? Yeah, it's very common, almost
expected and many moments and you know monarchical system
through history For family members to try to kill each

(54:10):
other. That's like a power.
It's not like a random fluke thing that happened once or
twice. It was like a consistent thing
to happen all the time so it's not crazy for Martin hope to
have included that in his world.Right.
I don't necessarily expect it's true but I don't think it's a
stretch won't be surprised somehow we found out.
It was true. Another thought I wonder if some
of the fasting that Baylor did was because he was suspicious of

(54:35):
being poisoned, huh? Hmm, worried or heard a rumor or
head of Vision this Zone was trying to poison him and so just
wouldn't eat any food. You know, I wonder if that added
to it a factor at least, you know, with the been the main
reason, but it could have been afactor, right?
Yeah. Especially if he's kind of going
crazy, which you might have had some instability in the first
place. But he, who knows what kind of

(54:57):
heat exhaustion and dehydration.He went through in a desert that
might have had a real of long-term effect on his
psychological. Yeah, the past you might have
been present. All paranoid person, you know
what I mean? Like, lock the women up, I'm not
going Eat any food, you know? Yeah.
Persecute the non Pious, you know, I can I can see an element
of paranoia in him. That might have pushed people to

(55:18):
but if you was, it might have been framed as paranoid.
Yes. But he might have been coming
from a place. Like, how if Ares the Mad King
aerys happened to a bit more Pious?
Some of the crazy murderer things he did might have been
done more in the name of God or whatever, but he still might
have been burning people, it still would have been crazy and
one of his own kingsguard Jaime Lannister's.

(55:39):
So You ended up killing him again.
Hey, mine doesn't seem to be presented to us that way, but
someone else on the kingsguard, someone else in court might have
been. Yeah.
Finally, I'm remembering all three thoughts.
A man might have been too naive to think about poison.
He might have been too righteous.
Yeah, whatever. You know what I mean?
Like what was the name of that? The guy that Bronn fought was

(56:01):
like he had on her. Oh you know.
Yeah I can just imagine a more noble traditional pious night.
Just not In weight poison that is out of frame because he's
been poisoned so his bail or so.Doesn't.
Yeah, but make as much sense there but I can see some people
just not having that in a realm of their concerns of artists.
By the way to dance, thank you. Another Point.

(56:23):
Here is the succession. We kind of glossed over we've
talked about in other places butthe fact of the saris inherited
kind of shows that they didn't really consider passing the
throne to a woman anymore. They kind of decided Not to do
that even though it wasn't maybeofficial, they just passed over
down and data could have been the queen.

(56:45):
She was next in line based on some versions of or standard
versions of how it passes. But not against based on, maybe
what had been argued over in thedance but certainly not
established afterwards. They didn't say no.
Women can't really wasn't it made law and it was just kind of
all the men agreed to just do that and Dana was part of
President. It's convenient precedents which

(57:06):
by the way, is part of why day in the the defiant.
There's theories that she encouraged the behavior of her,
son Daemon blackfyre, to take the throne because it should
have been her as Queen in the first place.
So it's not going to. If you're not going to take a
Manuel take from that person's line, the next candidate that
would have come from her descent.
So there is an argument for thatanyway.
That's a whole nother story, whole nother, part of the this

(57:29):
timeline, a little later. But what did I even think about
you Damon think? Yeah, it's better to pass over
the women or that can lead to war.
He thought, no like he has respect for his sister.
ER, and he's like, no, women arevery capable.
Why not give it when I left a ina rule again just sitting, we
can't possibly know but it worththe worthy.
Questioning the throw out there and be like, well, yeah, for
managing this is a movie or a fleshed-out story, not moving

(57:51):
but a TV show, or fleshed-out novel or something.
That would be a thing that wouldprobably need to be addressed.
If the if the story had a man's point of view represented
strongly one, or we I feel generally want to think of him
as the hero. He's been presented as but I
don't know. So if the church the faith the
pious they're not exactly all about promoting women in power

(58:15):
and feminist rights or whatever.So I'm sure I'm suspicious.
If you know he may not have likeactively wanted her to not be
Queen but I don't see him pushing forward.
Yeah. I kind of agree with that.
Yeah, it seems like. Yeah that's that's probably an
uncomfortable truth area. That is very, very anti women in
charge, the faith of the seven This is another thing where the

(58:36):
nepotism may have worked againstthem.
Yaman. Probably earned his spot as a
kingsguard, but it's a real blind spot.
If you're your own father, who probably made the appointment of
you as Lord, Commander wants to murder the king that you're
supposed to be protecting. You said Sean, maybe he doesn't
even think about the possibilityof poisoning.
I think he probably did but he may not have thought about the
possibility of poison from his own father.

(59:00):
And what was you getting? How could you stop him?
He's like, hey Dad, let me checkthat cup.
You know your father. Hands a cup of wine to bail or
you can be like hold on dad. Let me give that to the tester
first, you know? Like yeah.
I don't know if it's gonna work that way and so when it comes to
family on family violence he's more helpless than a neutral

(59:20):
kingsguard member. My P.
And this is of all Targaryen leadership group here basically.
Yeah. Mmm.
Ironically viserys. Even whether or not he did
murder his nephew here, he was agood ruler.
He was a good King. There's no, even though I
compared him to Tywin, I did sayTywin without the evil, that's a

(59:41):
very important distinction. You, he wasn't cruel.
That we know of, he wouldn't have killed if he did Kill bail
or it wasn't to make himself King for his own power, it was
to avert disaster. Seemingly like there's me
there's no hint that he did thisfor his own gain and he he only
lasted 15 ish months. He wasn't king very long
himself. It may also have been poisoned.
He may have been poisoned by hisown son, aegon, the Unworthy who

(01:00:03):
all of a sudden found himself one A person away from the
throne which oh my God. What is a man think of that?
Like a man may have been. That's the one reason for Amy
made to regret. His father becoming King is
because that puts his brother next.
But yeah. Ike's like, oh boy, you know, on

(01:00:24):
the other hand, if it's Darren in the line of succession after
that, which is a good thing but he's like, oh my brother.
No, you know. So you can see that coming the
writing on the wall, is it as brother's probably gonna become
king, he probably thought. Add more than 15 months though.
He probably thought he had longer than the party that his
father because his father wasn'told like even though his father
had been hand for 20 years, he has been hands and he was 20 so

(01:00:45):
he was only like 40 something. This is nowhere near an old man.
Nowhere near it all morning. Oh yes, says that you
40-somethings. So again Amon would not have had
anything to do with this. He wouldn't have helped someone
murder his own father. Certainly not helped his brother
do it. Like he doesn't even like his
brother but he probably heard the Rumours after shameful.

(01:01:07):
Just shame shame. Shame.
If your own brother did that, orif you couldn't stop it just has
another king this died under hiswatch.
Now he's Lord Commander as well and he was Lord Commander under
bail or two. So That's two kids.
The first two kings, one. Tuberculosis one in war, at
least he wasn't the Lord Commander.
This, these two both his kin andhe's Lord Commander.

(01:01:29):
A duty-bound person is going to be like, oh, I have failed, I
have failed. I failed, he would pray a lot.
His knees would be be scraped upfrom all that.
Praying, he some knee pads. And yeah, real quick wanted to
make the point to that. However, bad egg on was am on
probably Still wouldn't even consider the egg on would

(01:01:51):
poison. His father maybe not right.
Even if he was you know, worldlycynical enough to consider some
of Might poison. He's probably sort of consider
that his brother would poison his dad, you know.
It's still like I feel like the type of thing.
Like what was I supposed to do? If I supposed to check the drink
that my father and brother were giving each other to see if his

(01:02:14):
poison like it. Let's say he did have, maybe he
did one time like how would thatRealistically go over.
Yeah, that makes sense. The other flip side of viserys
who was doing good work in the 15 months, he was organizing the
realm really well, now, who knows what the long-term would
have been, but he was making good decisions, he was some said

(01:02:35):
that he had it in him to be another another Jerry's.
Which yeah, not great handling, his family, but pretty good with
handling the realm, you know, building roads making smart
choices with Taxation and trade things like that stuff that will
that will make the realm better but But that didn't last very
long. So Hague on becomes king and

(01:02:58):
Nares becomes Queen. That's the other side of this.
That's real. Interesting to consider from a
man's point of view. His beloved sister who wanted to
be a Septa. She asked their father for
permission to become a Septa, rather than marrying egg on, or
to leave egg on and become a Septa was denied that She's
Queen now, which means she's very powerful, but it's like an

(01:03:21):
alicent thing from. How's the drinks?
Like I made you Queen. Isn't that what you wanted?
She's like, I don't know, you didn't let me decide what I
would have wanted. I don't think Mary's wanted to
be Queen. She doesn't want him to be Queen
to that King. Yeah.
But maybe she saw it as an opportunity to do good like
Baylor's. Like, well this is my duty.
She's Pious, she probably believes is the will of the Gods
aiming as well. They might not be happy with the

(01:03:41):
will of the Gods was like, well,we gotta go along with him.
Gotta do our duty. Speaking of Duty she had become
pregnant. Again aegon was trying to have
more kids. Well he succeeded he had lots of
kids with other women mostly though a boy and a girl this
time twins again but the boy died.
The girl did not the girl. Got the name Daenerys, this is

(01:04:03):
the same Daenerys. Who would later receive the
Water Gardens from her husband to Prince of Dorne.
So a man would have grieved withNares for the boy and celebrated
young Daenerys. A new niece of his, it's a great
thing. Probably would have done it
anyway but again, love and Duty actually Collide again here in a
good way. Because egg on her, I wasn't

(01:04:24):
very sympathetic but I didn't really have kind words to offer
a grief about The Lost Child. Probably didn't celebrate the
daughter all that much. Either me was like, yes, I'm
going to marry her off someday or who knows?
This is nothing good about aegon.
So also, he was distracted because a fortnight later.
Another one of his bastards was born, so he had two kids in a

(01:04:45):
short span. Time.
He's probably just immediately moves on to check that one out.
And he's more into this woman than his wife.
Barbara Bracken, who was also locked up in the made involved,
by the way, she was released at the same time as the other women
and this child Igor Rivers. The name remember that name,
Sean Hagar Rivers? That's bittersteel.
Yeah. Do you knew that?
I'm learning? Yes, didn't know that, cool.

(01:05:08):
So that's a pretty big deal because as we said aegon's like
tastes for women, started to climb the ladder in terms of
rank and he having lots of like lower born bastards, which
doesn't make them worse, obviously, but it makes them
less problematic in terms of succession crisis issues and
things like that. This one Igor Rivers, pretty big
problem for a number of ways just because of his existence

(01:05:30):
and later because of his decisions and well as an adult,
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that's Westeros smile, brilliant.com, 20% off.
Check it out. I seye introduced to us a few
weeks ago. Her awesome.
Episode Searcher. Reintroduced I should say
because she had made one before,but this is sort of a new
version of it beefed-up version.Its new.
Maybe we'll call it episode search or 2.0 and it's so nice,

(01:08:01):
it's available. If you are a subscriber through
patreon and if you are a subscriber through Spotify, you
can email us and we'll give you the link to it.
It's pretty spectacular because our catalog has grown.
So big, we're always mentioning up.
Us Odes for y'all to check out an old episodes we've done in
the past but frankly podcast Platforms in Youtube it'll have

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that haven't developed a great way to search back catalogs,
kind of a new problem. Neither of these sites have
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does, did you give him even exist?
25 years ago? I'm not sure.
They may have been pretty new. I may have been right when they
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Like, most YouTube channels don't have a big back catalog,
but the every year that goes by this is because Bigger and

(01:08:46):
bigger problem. So she I took on ourself solve
this problem, at least for our listeners.
It doesn't help other shows, youcan't search Gangsta loves
internet. You can't search other shows on
this episode's Archer. It's how only but you can search
by a number of ways number of different features that this
episode might have. Whether it's video only, whether

(01:09:06):
it's House history where there'sa lot of different tags and
categories. Did I explain that pretty?
Well a shed and I leave me out. Yeah, you did.
Cool, it's good. Well, Ash a is great at that and
I think you all should check it out if you want to take a look,
maybe some episode. You didn't even know you missed.
Yeah. I would just want to say real
quick. It how much I feel?

(01:09:27):
It's like a game changer for something like a search of iron.
What's it is? They're tired and I can't
imagine you guys who read this book, you know?
Like I don't know, 10, 20 years ago when you had like an idea if
you want to like think about what Are you did in?
This is a pointer however, time,how many times do I've mentioned

(01:09:50):
the moon? You know, just still looking
going down rabbit holes when youjust had to like search through
all the physical pages of. But I just can't imagine what I
did. I had he copies I, when I would
sit down to write an episode, I would first thing I'd do is I'd
open up again with Thrones open up Clash of Kings.
Open up, a storm swords, open upA Feast for Crows hundred
interactions. And then when I would search for
one out of search, all five of them and then eventually the

(01:10:11):
world of Ice and Fire was added to that and then so on and so
forth. Yeah.
But anyway, so I just I feel like me and newer people and
even people who were doing it before we've gotten a
transition, it's understand how valuable it is to quickly access
all of their information. Well, at this point, you know, I
we've got more content than the books themselves by far.

(01:10:33):
Right. Oh yeah.
And so, it's got to be a valuable thing to it of
similarly search, our content, and it'll be working process to
get everything tagged or log of the dialogue that we've had to
be able to search whatever. But I think that's the idea that
to be able to search our contentand it's same way.
You could search those books. Yes.
Figure out all the thoughts we've ever had on, how many

(01:10:54):
times George do use the word moon, or whatever.
How many table quartered etcetera or when, if you about
last week, because I think it was last week, Aziz was like,
oh, I think that idea about themseeing about Danny and the fire
is great. And the bald thing and I was
like, you know, I'm pretty sure we've said that before that's
come up before. Yeah, so we can find all the

(01:11:14):
times it's come up here. Right on.
So it's an issue that's ongoing that a share has done a lot to
help solve and we will continue to solve it over the years and
at least until this podcast platforms and YouTube.
Give us a built-in way to handleit.
A couple people more than a couple people.
Actually several mothers wrote in, on the issue of Hague on

(01:11:35):
beating his brother at the dragon egg.
So this is great. I love this feedback, our good
friend, one of my favorite people, Christina deals.
Dale wrote. It's a bit undirected but that
strength is Referring to who hertoddler who is about two years
old named Teddy. Basically the point is that she
made is he's probably strong enough to lift that Dragon's
egg. Although we don't actually know
how heavy a dragon's egg is aiming.

(01:11:56):
It properly might be difficult but the actual lifting, he could
be can handle that and Caddo Vives, my favorite comment here,
says never underestimate the twoyears old.
I once left the room for 20 seconds maximum and when I came
back my not yet, two-year-old son was carrying his newborn
sister across the room holding her at the neck like a kitten.
Yikes. I said, wow, yeah.

(01:12:19):
Okay, I guess that's why they say, don't leave kids all alone,
even for a second, because yeah,whoa, yeah, I shout out to
parents because, yeah, if you'regonna be worried about some like
that happening, when would you ever get a minute to take a nap?
I mean, that she's, I polled ourSpotify listeners, which is a
small subset of listeners. I eventually will bring it out

(01:12:41):
to pull Twitter as well because it's a much larger group you and
maybe even Facebook, just to seewhat y'all thought.
Got a man in Aries, whether theyhad a romantic relationship or
not. I'm a little surprised because
more of you said, yes to know, Ithought they would be more
knows. But how should I ask the
question where things romantic between Amon and Aries?
Yeah, we're things romantic between a man and Aries.
A mask? Yes.

(01:13:01):
Or no? And Paul in the Utah actually
wrote it. Like, where did they have a
romantic relationship? Yes, a bit.
Like Jaime. Cersei are no.
They didn't a bit like Marjorie and loras guilty.
Undertaker says, was Reina Targaryen, the one who became a
step to at court. At this time, I can see her
being tied with a man in Mary's as well.
Yes, absolutely good call Amon nerys and young, Darren and

(01:13:22):
Rana, who was the middle sister of Dana, Rayna and Elena.
She did become a Septa and so, yeah, she would have definitely
been on board. And in this group, most likely,
at least agree with a lot of their decisions.
Anyway, if she wasn't fully on board, but she was young.
So I don't suppose she would have been like a loud voice at
court, but would have been thereand supportive and maybe she's

(01:13:45):
louder. I think but reports are that she
was kind of quiet and it's another example of what I said
that in addition to this kind ofprominent name, God Squad, the
people around them would have been in this same sphere and of
a mind, you know. Yeah.
I mean there's a bait that wouldhave permeated other
institutions, the raising of a next generation of kids.
The policy set in a place that would have gone on for a

(01:14:05):
generation or more Etc. No matter how beloved or hated
the person at the top is people their behavior.
Whatever behaviors. They're exhibiting will be
justified some people certain Action of population, will feel
more justified in Behaving a certain way.
If that leader is doing the samething, we've seen that in the
real world beware. Yeah, we've seen that the real
world and that would be happening here.
Like look because, yeah, look what happens with egg on becomes

(01:14:26):
king. We're about to get to.
He all the court becomes a placeof lickspittles and corrupt
individuals. And yeah, and not a place of
piety and bravery is, yeah, yep,definitely true.
Another shout out to Michael, Clarke, felt his movie is now
out. Yes, it's only about 37 minutes.
It is funny as depth it is called Saint Lucy's church for

(01:14:52):
women Raised by Wolves. First comes along and keep
forgetting the full Title. I school school for Wayward goal
for girls Raised by Wolves. Yeah, it's a great title but
hard to remember exactly the wording.
You can also look for it on our Facebook group adjuster will be
sharing it around social media. So anywhere you follow us, you
should be to find the link by the Whether you know, Michael or

(01:15:15):
felt or not makes a bunch of maps, he does a bunch of stuff,
the in general. But, you know, we kind of
connected through him to the maps you make.
So the world of Martin's world and he also has a video and
maybe multiple we definitely have one on the reach where it
kind of goes around as map at the reach and talks about the
different locations and characters and everything he
involved just. When I finished the short film,
it just went to that next like. Well this is good too.

(01:15:37):
Ha ha ha. Hell, yeah.
Real quick, I want to backtrack slightly as well and something
else I said not to change. It.
But to add a little detail, Shawn you asked about the
kingsguard in the era that a manwas born and I said, we didn't
know much about it. We do have names that's mostly
all we have, but it's a little more than that.
So, let me go through this real quick.
During the Regency of egg on thethird, he named sir Robyn,

(01:16:00):
Massey, and Sir, Robert Darkman to the kingsguard.
But they were unnamed because his hand of the King was like,
no, you're not of age yet, and Idecide who you're in, your
kingsguard are, so maybe he renamed them later after he
became of age, there's Indication he did because not a
lot of time would have passed, but on the other hand, they're
just made out of bed, space. You need someone to die first

(01:16:20):
and maybe they're just wasn't. There wasn't a lot of work going
on at this time Sir Edmund Warrick sir, Denis Whitfield and
Sir Agra more Cobb were named after the secret Siege of 135
Sean's like secret Siege you say, okay.
Yeah. As long as this episode is gonna
be I don't have time to explain the secret Siege but it was
something that happened during the Regency and with the lice
any and standoffish Shadow and all this cool stuff.

(01:16:41):
But what's funny about these guys is Workhouse Whitfield
House Cobb, never heard any of those.
And we do know the Lord Commander was Sean.
It was Raynard Ruskin. Also Ruskin, never heard of that
either. So he was promoted to Lord
Commander after the secrecy. So he was in the King's Guard
during the secret Siege and tookthe place of Marston water as I
think. And any number of them could

(01:17:01):
have been around when Amon was joined and 153, since they were
probably on the younger side, some of them.
At least some of them would havebeen any of them.
Could have been. The one we theorized was a man's
favorite. Or the one that he looked up to
or maybe practice with the most.Any of those guys maybe he took
one of their places when they died.
One of them died, eventually, one of them or multiples could

(01:17:22):
have been in the conquest of Dorne, still, 22 years later and
maybe died or was one of the ones to die in the Ambush, or
maybe even one of the ones, the one that surrendered or one of
the ones that survived even possible.
One of them survived sir, Raynard had to have died by
Baylor's rain, though, because Lord Commander.
Clearly had to have died for a man to take that spot.
We also know of a guy named sir Joffrey Staunton who was in The

(01:17:44):
King's Garden, 155. But other than him threatening a
man that aegon's wife slept with, we don't know anything
about him. So sounds like he was one of the
ones that aegon kept with him because he was willing to be
aegon's. Bully.
Did you say Staunton? Yeah, that's a crown Crown.
Yeah, house window. Otherwise house, man.
That's when the crown is three. Four, four houses that we never

(01:18:08):
have ever heard, of course. That's yeah.
Interesting variant. Yeah, you wonder if that was by
Design to keep certain powerful houses, out of the way or to
keep them. More lowborn to make them more
who knows there's a lot of intriguing and maneuvering in
that era. It is tempting to talk about but
we have so much to cover today. Welcome back to it.
Nina also mentions long. Tom kha stain.
There was a cost Dane. He died he served for 60 years

(01:18:32):
and we don't hear of him in thisthird century and a 60 years is
that covered. So he may have lived in the
second century of Targaryen rule, which would have have six
serving for 60 years. It's hard to squeeze that in.
And so he may have been in this kingsguard in this area as well.
And by the way, that is a reference to the author Thomas
cost name, who is a influence onGeorge.

(01:18:56):
Let's talk about the Ascension of the Unworthy brother, aegon
became king and 172 and his appetite for women somewhat
checked by his father quickly, got out of hand to new heights
of depravity. He had his famous nine
Mistresses, which were not all the same time but he did have
multiple women at the same time in general, literally hundreds

(01:19:17):
of other unnamed partners. He was the Wilt Chamberlain of
his of Targaryen Kings and his aTerrain for about 12 years.
It's a lot of depravity. Barristan mentions that in the
past Kings of dispatch kingsguard to serve and defend
their Mistresses and bastards. But there's not enough
kingsguard to cover, all his mistress isn't mastered.
So what do you do here? It's one of the best guard yeah

(01:19:40):
and this is maybe a way for him to shame his brother.
Send a man to guard one of his Mistresses or one of those
bastards instead of The truebornOffspring or his sister who is
being shamed by all these Affairs.
So we know for sure Sure, Hague on tried to embarrass his
brother and sister, here's a one-liner quote to spell that

(01:20:01):
out in plain English. Hey guns, resentment of his
Noble celebrated brother was plain to all for the king
Delights did in sliding Amon andNares.
Both at every turn, it's not even a theory.
Apparently, it's just something he did a lot, but the slice
Nares were more well-known. Because they came in the form of
these Mistresses and children. They stick out in the historical
record more. There's actual people rather
than just passing comments here and there or other things like

(01:20:23):
that. And a man could do very little,
but Pick up which of course didn't do anything at all to
stop. The Unworthy Nares, went on, her
death bed again, early on in this rain and her Reign, and her
brothers, ran her, and her brothers ran, and this caused a
drama because the bracken's gambled that she was going to
die and the bracken's work Chiefat court.

(01:20:45):
At this time, aegon had made a Bracken, his hand and his number
one, mistress was the same Barbara Bracken who had already
delivered. Bittersteel obviously, that
wasn't his name yet. He wasn't bitter.
At age one, although there were already things for him to be
bitter about even then. And it said that because of the
fall of the pushback on this because they tried to basically

(01:21:05):
get egg on to name Young egg or as his new are so set dare on a
side based on these parentage rumors that were getting started
and we're being pushed around and it backfired pretty badly
when aerys recovered, a lot of the Court including Darren and a
man himself. A man, the Dragon Knight back
sources, his faction. Of individuals that are pushing

(01:21:28):
the Brackins back. It got bad enough that aegon
sent Barbara away sent egg or two.
They weren't sent back to Stonehedge and pretty sure he
fired his hand, then as well. And that led to the ascent as
Mistress of Missy Blackwood, whowas the one mistress everyone

(01:21:50):
seemed to like, she was popular.She was nice.
She was friendly nerys liked her.
So there you go. Like she's a mistress.
But even there, he's lecture nerys, lecture, then that says,
a ton about her personality Heyman liked her too, maybe in
part because Nares kind of gave him permission to like her.
You know, because I think if shedidn't like him her like her, a

(01:22:13):
man would have been dutifully distant as well.
But he may have wanted to like her too, because she's just
seems like very likable person. And but she was, she was around
for five years and she gave birth to what Raven, and he did
not get kicked away from court. Bloodraven, was apparently
raised at court, at least for a lot of it, this topic is more

(01:22:34):
covered in our actual aegon, theUnworthy episode heyman's
involvement a lot of this is certainly there but it's not
tangible. Exactly other than we would be
pretty clear about him. Following areas his lead on a
lot of things and Nerys and Darren especially so we don't
hear about Melissa's father either.
Well, so it's not a similar caseof where the Brackins are just
trying to make in routes everywhere.

(01:22:55):
You got the mistress, you've gotthe child and you get the father
being handed the king but we is no word that Melissa's father
was handed the king so that probably Tamp down the political
Intrigue, which paved the way for more, like regular
friendships because there wasn'tthis shadow of power hanging
over all these things. One after another I do Dynamic

(01:23:15):
involved with It at this point the fact that the king just has
a bunch of Mistresses and bastards, it's like, just just
the way of things now. And so, if Melissa and others,
inner end of this scenario, withthat understanding, they might
handle it differently, rather, than being secretive, or
conniving, she just accept it for what it is, makes the best
of it is friendly with everyone.Doesn't angle for power.

(01:23:37):
I can imagine someone finding a way to make this, go easier than
other people having a past like her same person, her character,
whatever. The first mistress mistress
still might not have been like the way she ended up being at
this point, right? Yeah, it's really clever Miss.
Melissa Blackwood is a beloved character about whom very little
is known because of stuff like this.
I guess she found a way to be beloved in a spot where you're

(01:24:00):
almost always hated. Like, you just just the nature
of your involvement. This the nature of your place at
court is is hard to deal with, is hard to like she's attached
to that guy, to the worst possible, man?
You know, but somehow she Rose above that.
It's really, really, really amazing.
There's a statue of her. I'd Raven Tree haul.
Yeah. Yeah, interesting.
Yeah, Darrin's parents, wait, who built that statue?

(01:24:21):
Was a bloodraven because that says, takes away a little bit of
the meaning for us. I forgot lady Lozier Adagio
sends a Super Chat, says, I'm late, but I'm here.
Hashtag house beard. Well, thank you.
We appreciate that. And we're glad you're here and
sort of the restaurant been don't shave.
Yeah. So as we've said a few times and

(01:24:41):
has a lot of you know, already aking aegon did not like his son
and Heir dare on who was more like bail or without the crazy.
And he certainly wasn't like hisfather.
He didn't sleep around. He was Pious and he wasn't
warlike. So he was probably more like
Prince Haman other than not being good with a sword.
He had like a yeah, he wasn't built like a warrior.
He things like a hill like a scholar.

(01:25:03):
The king tried a few things overthe years to disown him.
And since he didn't have any other trueborn Sons, he couldn't
just pass over him for another trip.
Sun which would have been that might have actually work.
You might have been able to pullthat off but he didn't have
another trueborn son so he kept threatening to legitimize one of
his bastard Sons. Now people often make the
mistake that of thinking he was going to legitimize Damon first,

(01:25:24):
but it wasn't yet declared that Damon was a gun son Dana.
The defiant had kept that as still had kept that a secret to
this point, so they'll the bastard.
He was referring to his egg or Rivers is better steel.
That's the one. He was threatening to make his
new air and that would have beenBen Civil War, obviously, if
that had happened because whatever did happen later, the
blackfyre Rebellion is, I mean, you know, but when the black

(01:25:47):
fires were but Dave's, the King used, a cat's paw to make an
accusation against, not only hiswife, but his brother Eamonn, he
tried to throw them, both under the proverbial bus, the Valyrian
steel bus as it were a man namedsir more Gil.
A night of house haste Wick, a stick is of similar rank to
Staunton, their Crown lands houses that are pretty nearby.
So the ones that are ostensibly most loyal to the iron throne

(01:26:10):
Accused Queen areas of adultery in open court, and declared that
her lover was aimin. This of course, is treasonous.
That's treason, very straightforward.
A man, of course, was like, trial by combat.
Yo, that's some place. I'm very confident in my ability
for Marco must have been pretty good too.
Because, I mean, he had to see this coming.

(01:26:33):
The trolley all trial that come.I didn't think of that.
Damn it. What a fool I am for making this
accusation. He, of course.
They knew it would lead to This which is a little odd because
the Dagon think more Gil would win.
Maybe he did, maybe Morgan was really good, but he didn't win
the dragonknight one and it backfired worse than egg on may
have fought because it just increased his Legend Made A man

(01:26:55):
even more heroic. The story is still told.
Now here's an example of that story.
Still being told now Cersei and Tina Merriweather discussing, a
familiar accusation of infidelity.
Bringing us back to loras and Marjorie quote This trial, she
said in a quiet voice, what if Marjorie demands are her guilty
or innocent be determined by wager of battle, a smile brush,

(01:27:18):
circe's lips, as Queen, her honor must be defended by a
knight of the kingsguard. Why every child in?
Westeros knows how Prince aemon,the dragonknight championed his
sister, Queen Mary's against aremore girls accusations with Ser
loras. So Gravely, wounded though, I
fear Prince eamon's part, Must Fall to one of his As sworn

(01:27:40):
Brothers, she Shrugged, who though Sera reasons?
Their bail on are far away and Dorne.
Jamie is off at riverrun and Sarah, Osmond is the brother of
the man accusing her. Which leaves only oh dear,
Horace blunt and Meryn trant's. Ladies Hannah left.
Yes. And Ser Meryn has been feeling

(01:28:02):
ill of late. Remind me to tell him that when
we return to the castle, remember that when In was
ribbing, Soros, about during thekingsguard so young.
He's like the honor of serving besides, it's Paragons, is Boris
blunt and Meryn Trant. That's why you did it, right?
That's the same two guys to get named and this pot and yeah,

(01:28:25):
it's too bad for a gone. He didn't accuse his sister.
While a man was laid up recovering from a poison in his
case, rather than being burned. Which apparently, apparently
what's happened to Lourdes, but a gun wasn't king when Haman was
recovering from Poison, so wouldn't have probably gone as
well. We know better.
Better than to accept the outcome of a trial by combat is
absolute proof, but Westeros doesn't.

(01:28:46):
So they that's why it backfired because yeah, I'm sure in my
mind, a gun was only thinking ofthe rewards he's like, oh yeah,
let me get rid of my brother anddiscern in disinherit, my son.
All in one swoop is like what a great idea.
He didn't think of he's like andif this goes wrong now, whatever
that dudes Dead. Who cares?
I didn't really think it all theway through with my guess
because now it's proven. It's like the gods just declared

(01:29:07):
know that is your true born. So he was stuck with it from
now, he couldn't really argue his way out of it that point
because it had been put to the test and failed, but the gods
weighed in so he didn't, he couldn't really even as king.
He couldn't really argue againstthat anymore.
He would try to wiggle around ita few times.
He did some stuff still, but that really in a good way for

(01:29:28):
people of decency shot himself in the foot there, How drunk was
he? Who do you have whispering in
his ear? Like, he was more Gilliam stuff
is like, cause this guy's, like I want this, the glory of
defeating the dragon. Now, you really thought he could
do it and you just kind of a crazy dude.
Again, the person we don't know much about but he must have been
very confident like you don't just like, yeah I'm gonna fight

(01:29:49):
the dragon knight, it'll all go good from there, then it's just
profit from that. My honor, you know, the rest of
my life will be saved by the way, after seeing House of the
Dragon. I feel like they did such a good
job with it, especially with iron.
Are relatively little information, and, and this first
season, which is all built up tothe more actioning part, which
so good. It makes me so much more excited

(01:30:09):
to see all these stories now. Yeah, I just know the way I just
think I can better imagine now how they would fill out these
details. How the conversations would go
their sense of the potential of what's like what the yeah,
exactly. Yeah.
I like that. So take note, by the way using
this example as we talked about how Amon and Nares and these
things can be parallels to things that have yet to happen

(01:30:30):
in the main story. What?
Happens when after this trial, by combat that we're waiting to
see from Cersei what's going to happen as a result of someone,
fighting the mount, the undead mountain, and most likely
losing, at least in the short term Nina is confidently on
team. Darren was definitely the son of
aegon. An Aries and a man in there,

(01:30:51):
he's not hook up. I agree with that.
I think their personalities, their beliefs, their
dispositions, like Mary's doesn't seem Like, she wanted to
hook up with anyone, let alone, her brother, or her other
brother. She wanted to be a Septa.
Now, maybe again, that's partly because she wanted to be a step
to partly because the alternative was marrying, her
awful brother. And like, she didn't really have

(01:31:12):
there wasn't an option C. It was that maybe she wouldn't
have been so interested in beinga stepped-up.
She wasn't faced with marrying aegon but maybe she would have
been. There's a lot of reasons, I
don't know. We need to go through all of
them. There we feel the way we feel.
You all can feel the way you feel.
Can I say what the polls at? Yeah, it's been 20 minutes.
There's 34 votes, it's 38%. Yes, things were romantic 38%

(01:31:37):
know. Things were not romantic 24%.
Unsure if Dead Heat that he deadexactly.
Even right now when I posted theoriginal pole and started off
with they didn't hook up and then it switched over time to
they did which was well the question of whether it was
romantic or not is different from whether they ever hooked
up. So I phrased.
It is really yeah. Okay.

(01:31:58):
Want to be. Yes.
Make that clear that you can think they were But they never
were physical and you could I guess technically the things
that they weren't romantic and we're physical.
But that seems unlikely comparedto Jaime and Cersei is that
implies that it was physical. Yeah, not with Laura submerged.
Yeah, I think, by the way, thereis a decent, if not strong
chance that it was romantic, butI think it's a low weak on

(01:32:21):
probable chance that it was physically intimate.
Yeah, I agree with that. Well, I mean, I agree with that.
Except for like, well, maybe they kissed one time or
something, but probably not evenact like this.
Maybe one time they cast teenagers he I don't know.
I'll leave that room open for it, but I don't think that they
slept together and I certainly don't think that they had
bastards together. Yeah.

(01:32:42):
Illegitimate kid yeah? Right.
I agree with that. Yeah.
I think he was probably chased but it's easy to say that she
could have been an exception. Like yes, it was chasing him by
vipers in his dreams, his duty sense of Duty and chasing him
through. Yeah, one.
Person who claims to believe Amon was the father of Darren is

(01:33:04):
Arianne Martell, but I don't know if she really believes that
she's just trying to get under arys oakheart skin about
kingsguard and vows and try and she's trying to get him to break
his vows, which is like, yeah, kingsguard break their vows,
well time even the Dragon KnightRook is like, if you can
convince him that even the Dragon Knight broke his vows,
then it would make it easier forhim to break his own.
He didn't agree with her but he still did it.
Go ahead and break his vows because, you know, arianne's

(01:33:26):
naked body was more effective than anecdotes about the Dragon
Knight? Go figure.
Also we tease this way the beginning of part 1, I'll take
Nina's lead on this. It's very evident.
George is inspired here by the stories of Lancelot and
Guinevere as the perfect night and the queen who supposedly
engaged in a clandestine. Love affair.
Even the name more Gil similar to Margaret, who is the mint?

(01:33:49):
Like the main villain of a lot of the Arthurian Legends and
he's in fact, Mordred is the onethat reveals Guinevere is
infidelity in the Arthurian Legend.
So it's, there's no way George wasn't.
At least thinking of that a little bit, the influence is
pretty clear. Once you look at it, Nina's
continues. So I tend to doubt that we'll
get a firm answer from the author because even an author

(01:34:10):
and legends, it's never, it's always left as an open question.
The actual answer of Darren's biological parentage and other
words, doesn't matter. As much as the author's.
Exploration of these themes of Love Duty.
And chivalric romance is not about learning the objective
truth. It's about reflecting on how the
situation shape and was shaped in turn by the sort of
characters. These individuals were very well
said Nina, I really like that and I am very much Three.

(01:34:32):
She continues though, the morgul.
Hey swick accusation also demonstrates, how short-sighted
aegon's attempts to antagonize his brother and sister were even
if anyone believed the accusation.
And I could see many people looking askance at the idea that
the notably Pious Queen and her venerable kingsguard brother had
an affair, like, they're so egg on a man was so popular.
Like people don't want to believe ill of people who are
popular. That's kind of how it goes.

(01:34:53):
If you like someone, it's harderto accept bad news about them.
Like, we're all like, if your enemy, if you hear something
like gossip about someone you hate, Eight.
You're like more willing to believe.
It's like a feedback loop of believe you're like, oh yeah, of
course they would do that. And then now your belief about
them is even worse because you've just believe something
even worse about them and that will fuel your belief about
future things about them, because you're like, oh, that's

(01:35:14):
the same person that did this other thing that you believed
with out, much evidence maybe even been true.
But again, your you would scrutinize it more, if it was
someone like Prince aemon, the dragonknight, the Beloved
legendary Warrior, who rescued bail, or from the Vipers and all
this other stuff. I mean he gets a lot of Benefit
of the doubt, right? Yeah, and that's part of why I

(01:35:35):
asked question earlier. Are we giving him too much
benefit of the doubt? Maybe maybe, maybe not.
So, there was no precedent in Targaryen Royal history for any
of this stuff either. Like, when has a queen ever been
accused of adultery, Cersei has,but that hadn't happened yet.
Of course I know Marjorie as well.
So it hadn't happened in the Targaryen are until you know, A

(01:35:56):
Song of Ice and Fire which isn'tthe Targaryen are, but do I get
a difference? I guess rainy's wasn't a Trainee
says, in aegon, the Conqueror iswhy Freddy's wasn't accused of
infidelity. It was a ride with her room.
You know, you never know how much it was like after his death
even, but that's the first person I think of is
technically, that's those to swirl around about her.
There's also the possibility that those rumors were started

(01:36:17):
by visenya in order to, you know, get Meg or on the phone
because she certainly help with that.
But that's all in the examples, any examples of Circe and
Marjorie, which we can be way more certain, about one's true
and ones. Yeah, true true, true not true.

(01:36:37):
And not true. Let's talk about the night of
Tears. Well, I think that we introduced
beginning with thing that Nina is currently writing about her
blog. That's what I have every night.
No, I'm joking. I'm over the K, very emo.
This. Remember, we had our question
about what music? I'm the dragon, I would listen

(01:37:00):
to. Well, this fuels, A lot of those
questions to the night of tear night of Tears is a Min.
The dragon guys. It's Alter Ego in a tournament
so when Mira is the poison EveryRose Has Its man.
Good one. When Meera and jojen or telling
bran the Knight of the Laughing tree story, this part comes up
quote but late on the afternoon of that second day as the

(01:37:21):
Shadows grew long, a mystery night appeared in the lists.
It's brand not in sagely mysterynights would off the pier
attorneys with Helms concealing,their faces, and shields that
were either blank or bore some strange device.
Sometimes, they were famous Champions in Disguise.
The Dragon Knight wants 12 tournament as the night of Tears
so he can name his sister. The queen of love and beauty

(01:37:44):
places. The king's mistress barristan.
The Bold twice donned a mystery Knight's armor.
First time when he was only 10. Yeah, I love that brand knotted
sages. Like yes, of course a mystery
Knight. Yes, that makes perfect.
Yeah. Is like I expected that?
Yes, no mystery Chris. That is an element of the story

(01:38:04):
that fits here. Yes, he's heard so many stories.
Funny, how just he won the tourney?
Like, yeah. You just glad.
I'm like, yeah, he just heard inone like, you wonder if people
just pretended to know, wasn't he's like a man is that you like
who else is just this good you know just beating everyone's
like that. I recognize that the way he sets
his horse. You know, I thought about that

(01:38:26):
quite a bit actually that it almost certainly was known by
most people because the Lord guyI've got sneak off to be a hook,
it's one thing. Yeah.
Especially with the, the way that it's seems to be sort of a
standard occurrence, right? Like I feel like yeah, it's some
combination of there would have been enough nights.

(01:38:46):
It would have recognized his build or his style or something.
And there would have been a few people that would have just
known because it had to help putthe armor on.
He didn't dress himself ready? Right ever.
Yeah. So you had to get the armored
kill someone. Yeah.
So they probably kind of have toplay along even though they
know, you know there's a lot of sort of like public secrets that

(01:39:06):
people know even in the real world.
You just kind of go along with you don't know.
Santa Claus for example just up top of my head something we
always feels good. What are you?
So mean we have a long history of bashing Santa Claus picture
okay as long as you're here you know he's real.
I just want to be clear on that.How do you mean Santa Claus?

(01:39:29):
I just meant that buddy. Is not really.
No. We like, yeah.
He's real. Yeah it's kind of funny to him.
Just like hey men is that you. Yeah.
And especially if it's like theme music is playing as he's
like his walk-up music. Yeah.
That's that's his the emo style everybody knows.
He likes that song and you wonder like how did this go down

(01:39:51):
because then I laughing tree gota there's a granite escaped and
we're just left to guess. Pretty sure it's Liana, but we
don't know. For sure could have been Hallen
dreamy, other maybe a third possibility.
But in this case, apparently it was revealed.
But under what circumstances maybe egg on the king is like
who are you? Name my queen, the night, last
night of love, and beauty. Maybe he's one of his

(01:40:11):
lickspittles whispered is here is like I bet that's your
brother. You know, you need to, you know,
or maybe you figured out himself.
I don't know if he ever spoke like building himself.
Yeah, you me. And he's like, it's his eye.
Amen. But yeah, we knew you're like,
they're like fake shock like you.
Yeah. Oh my God, Heyman.

(01:40:32):
The timing of this to, we don't know when this happened in that
could add a bit to the story Nina rights.
It's interesting to speculate when the night of Tears.
Event may have occurred randomlynotes when remembering the story
that a man disguised himself at this mystery night to prevent
the king's mistress from being crowned queen of love and beauty
so that must have happened before and he's like I'm trying
to prevent this from happening again unless you just predicted
it would happen and was just trying to prevent it from

(01:40:53):
happening ahead of time but I feel like it probably had
happened. He tried to prevent a repeat
occurrence. It seems a little more likely to
me. Anyway.
Need to says, if this event involved a mistress, a gun took
while he was King and assuming this was not one of his many
unknown, minor Mistresses was probably Barbara.
In the same one, he was talking about talking up and trying to
elevate almost to the point of being above nerys, if not above

(01:41:14):
nerys and openly talking about replacing Darren with egg, or it
doesn't necessarily fit with Melissa because Melissa was
popular, and well, liked, he could have named her queen of
love and beauty that fits. But a man, like, going out of
his way to stop Melissa being named love and beauty when she
was popular and Nares liked and Melissa and Amon.
Like Melissa doesn't fit as wellto try to undermine that.

(01:41:36):
It could have been one of the other ones, but the later
Mistresses this is when aegon was less.
Likely to be holding tournaments, his weight was out
of control, he had trouble walking around and so Barbara, I
think by far is the most likely one for this to have happened
under especially giving these other details sometime in the
range of 171 or 170 to 175 rangebecause Barbara was gone by 175.

(01:41:59):
I'm also gonna head Canon that in the final round of the
tournament that the night. I have tears and creeks and
Stark unhorsed each other, ruledit out, freaking figure it out,
who he was dueling, and that's why it doesn't appear anywhere
else because it's not known publicly that that's to me and

(01:42:23):
that dual happened. So another possibility is
Bethany Bracken. Who was the lover that came
along later? The one that even bigger Scandal
developed around was Terrence toy, which we'll get to shortly
Bethany. Was Barbara's younger sister.
The Brackins tried to make theirmove again and get back into the
good. Graces of the King by foisting

(01:42:43):
Bethany who was like I don't know younger version of Barbra
an egg on was like, oh yeah I'm into her and and took brought
her back and but they went bad. She's the other strong
candidate. I think Nina actually favors
Bethany's to Canada I kind of lean a little more towards Barba
but both of them are really. If you were writing this if
you're making it for TV, it would be one of these bracken's
because of the level of drama would in it, would create And

(01:43:08):
also because it's the opposite of the Terrence 20 situation
where two are about to describe.It's also just another perfect
example of him, defending his sister in public which increases
the legend and is another example of aegon, maybe not
realizing what he's doing realizing by trying to push his
brother and sister down and shame them.
Some of his actions, actually promote them and make them look

(01:43:31):
Brave and do the evil. King is doing all these things
to them and they're just plugging along, you know?
Doing their best and being chivalrous and Pious.
And all these other things and it makes them look good.
Part of his problem is. He's a narcissist and doesn't
know how people will perceive things.
You can only understand how things will be perceived about
him, and he's not very smart. Yeah, Nina says.

(01:43:52):
And this is a good, a chance to remind you.
All of this is what she wrote about in her latest blog post.
Comparing night of Tears. Tonight of the Laughing tree,
which is you have in both cases,a man and Leona sought to make
it objective. Public point.
A man wanted to prove that a gunwas going too far by naming his
mistress. Us rather than his Queen in
public in front of all these people.
And he had a chance to think about it other than argue

(01:44:13):
actually had a chance to step inand do a perform an action that
could actually make a difference.
And the same thing happened withthe Knight of the Laughing tree,
where there is an opportunity toteach those Squires a lesson.
They weren't discipline properlyfor how they treated Howland
Reed, how they picked on him andbeat on him.
So, the Knight of the Laughing tree, probably Anna did this on

(01:44:34):
her own, took matters into her own hands and did exactly.
The justice that they believed was called for In This Moment.
Another important moment here and it may be up for debate,
does this show a willingness to go against his brother's orders?
We know he was willing to stand up to his brother and court
maybe argue against him. Some cases.

(01:44:55):
But is this like defying an order does this go isn't
treason. It's a gray area of like whether
this is Disobedience against your king or not.
What do y'all think? We don't know exactly what he
was told to not do or do. So there's it's hard to say.
Say, but Nina says she both someone agrees and disagrees
because maybe it's going againstyour king, but you do as a
chivalric night you like Jamie would say, you also have a duty

(01:45:18):
to your family, and your sister,and the rest of the royal
family. So, it's a bit of a gray area.
Maybe is a little subversive, but I don't think it's direct
Disobedience. I mean, unless there's something
happened and we don't know, like, if you told him like I
said, at this next tournament, I'm going to name mistress, X,
queen of love, and beauty like know.
You can't do that. I can do whatever you want.

(01:45:39):
We'll all join the tourney and when so, it's to stop you and
it's like I order you to not join the turn.
Yeah. And then he did it anyway, then
maybe, but I feel that's a pretty almost silly
conversation. I just made up in order for that
scenario. Yeah, you're probably right.
I probably didn't happen. Anyway, so, possibly, even
though we lost the trial by combat.

(01:46:00):
Now remember part of this trial by combat came up because of
Darren and aegon's. Disagreements and And he decided
to go to war with Dorn, possiblyto get one over on his son and
his daughter-in-law, I remember his daughter-in-law is dornish.
So, how old is Darren at this point?
By the way, this is the year 174.

(01:46:21):
So Darren will be 21. Okay, definitely an adult more
than adult by now, and even though he lost trial by combat,
which put to rest, mostly the talk of Darren being
illegitimate, he still wanted tothrow this, he's going to do
what he could to push back against this.
Part of the family. He didn't like and he failed to

(01:46:42):
disown him so he's like, well let's invade Dorne first time
for him, but not the first time the targaryens tried to invade
doorknob bviously. There had been several conquest
of Dorne under the Iron. Throne, some of which were
conquests in quotes some of which were not some of which
were arguably successful, some of which were only attempts.
This one is kind of like the ladder to, in which, that it was
only arguably an attempt. There was no, there's no

(01:47:05):
question of it being unsuccessful.
Zero dornishman were killed. It could be compared to Prince,
more eons, Invasion from Dorne into the stormlands around, 80
years before, which killed zerosFarm, Landers was kind of the
equivalent of that both cases. Lots of people burned to death
dornishman, invading were burnedby dragons.
In this case, the Invaders themselves were burned by their
own wooden dragons. Aegon's Fleet, which that was a

(01:47:27):
smart move to send a fleet because Darren and open fist had
shown that a fleet was crucial to successfully, conquering
Dorn. But the fleet was scattered by a
Arm and the wooden dragons that shot Wildfire worked about as
well as you expected them to which is that they didn't and he
was expecting to drag these through these seven wooden

(01:47:48):
Wildfire. Belching dragons through the
dornish passes. And my guess is that this is a
really interesting is comical asit is, is this is another thing
that the targaryens wouldn't have done when they had dragons.
They weren't messing with Wildfire back when they had
dragons. Why would they bother?
They had fire-breathing beasts instead of bit This dangerous
substance you got to carry around.

(01:48:09):
Its could any second just go offand blow up and you have a hard
time controlling it? I mean, Dragon Fire Burns hotter
than Wildfire but Wildfire is harder to control ironically,
because once it starts burning, it doesn't go out, whereas
dragon, flame. Once it's on fire, it's pretty
much regular fire. Once it's lit stuff on fire,
it's just hotter initially. So remember, how they were talk

(01:48:32):
discuss them turning away from the draconic background from
their history from there? Aryan ancestry towards the faith
of the seven as a replacement stand-in for the Mandate of
Heaven, right? So, they're all.
So they don't have their magicalHeritage either as much anymore.
So, they're turning to things like the pyromancer.
She got the faith and the pyromancers.

(01:48:52):
And by the way, that's another thing, we wonder about a man
when Baylor, burned all the books, which would have included
a lot of that Targaryen history,lot of, valerian ancestry, lot
of dragon, bonding lot of books that explain how this stuff
works which is one of the reasons we don't know as well.
Now is because a lot of the information Agent of the date.
A lot of the how-to books were destroyed by Baal or another
thing that we're like, wonder what Amon thought of that.

(01:49:13):
But he had to do his duty. I guess I'm wondering, by the
way, how much of aegon's attemptto attack dorm by like having
people care while it's our fire today.
I wonder if there's some part ofegg on it was like whatever
Baylor walks. Is that desert Barefoot.
It's no big deal. Your second coin in his mind to
downplay. I'm realistic of a journey.
This would be yeah. This is very likely, another big

(01:49:40):
backfire. So Envision this and see if you
can follow my logic here. There's almost no chance.
Aegon sent Amon with the invasion Force.
I mean, I think that's odd just,like, why wouldn't he send his
best warrior? Why wouldn't will?
Because he's trying to one-up his brother.
He won, he doesn't want to conquer Dorne, and have his
famous brother, get all the credit for it, which people
would do people if the Congress Adorn, it succeeded and a man

(01:50:03):
had been part of it again. Would be like yeah of course
it's exceeded the Dragon Knight was there.
He would get the credit and egg on King aegon sitting back in
his throne would not get credit for it.
His brother gets credit, he and Damon.
Hey, got to be aware of this. He's not the brightest bulb but
he would get this. Considering how focused he has?
One constantly one up in his brother and being jealous of his
brother for being what. He's not the only thing I was

(01:50:24):
good at that, his brother wasn'tgood at was making babies and
drinking, I guess cruelty. You know, stuff like that.
So this is just quite worked out.
Really well for him he's like I'm not sending you because When
it succeeds. I'm not letting you get any
credit for it, but since he was not a part of it at all, it
probably was like, you should have said, Prince Haman better.

(01:50:45):
If you said the dragon is, so not only did he take - but he's
like, yeah, it could have been blamed, the whole thing's a
damned if you do damned if you don't for aegon.
Just yeah. She shouldn't have done it all
million reasons, meteorites. It's this whole thing reeks of
aegon trying to outdo everythingabout the successful campaigns
of Darren and partially successful.

(01:51:05):
Campaigns of aegon the Conqueror.
You got the you got the similar approach with Darren with Oaken
Fist and an invading Army, goingto the two passes and the flee,
but he had a bigger Fleet and they don't confess tags.
Like, oh, I don't know bigger and instead of three dragons, he
brings in seven, of course they're not real dragons but
quote unquote Dragon anyway. He's just looking at the like

(01:51:28):
blow-by-blow accounting of the conquest and was like, okay
double that double that and surely, it's all going to work,
you know, just 10 more of those 20 more of those.
No Nuance, no planning, no just more.
Just adding on top. That's his that's how he thinks.
And of course you trying to humiliate his son and his
daughter-in-law and of course that backfired to which you

(01:51:49):
know, what happens when a narcissist gets embarrassed,
they just double down right there.
They all wasn't my fault. He blames all the other people.
And by the way, hundreds of people burn like a lot of the
Kingswood went up in Flames because of this.
So it was quite a disaster. It wasn't just like, oh, the
Wildfire dragons broke and let'sgo home.
No, it was a huge conflagration.So another Like A Min on the

(01:52:13):
reason. He's probably glad to not be
there. Like it may have been a
Wandering summer haul before thereal summer haul, you know,
Wildfire on the move. It might have been extra
frustrating and even tragic for For a mon also because if he
recognized on any level that this was a quote unquote, a
suicide mission, right? It might have been frustrating

(01:52:34):
for him to not be able to mitigate the damages by gonna
like it even I'm willing to die in this battle but I hopefully I
can at least make the most of itor save some of my peoples
lives, especially if you know, what if aegon sent some of a
mons, you know allies, friends students know, whatever they've
done to separate them. That's kind of thing he would
do. Yeah.

(01:52:55):
Okay. Because objective It's nuts to
not send the Dragon Knight to the conquer Dorn.
When he's already done it, he's been there.
Like the most one of the, probably the most experienced
people that could have sent, even if it is, quote, unquote,
not serious. Even he has a good justification
that's, and I'm like, you're a kingsguard need to stay here?
Oh no. You're right, you're right car.
These women and made him V or you know, like oh my, my oh, my

(01:53:17):
mistress is my fastest. You have to stay here.
Yeah, she's got a good cover story for sure.
It doesn't look that bad. But, you know, if he wasn't
worried about his ego and Protecting his mistress is it
would be like yeah of course yousend the Dragon Knight as is
rain goes on examples like this become more and more common.
His behavior gets worse as health gets worse.
These two things are negative feedback loop because they pile

(01:53:41):
on each other too. Bad is helped in Decline so much
that he died because he didn't, but he kept on firing bastards.
He didn't stop doing that his hemanaged to stay fertile,
unfortunately, as well. Kept on giving away honors lands
and titles and even dragon eggs like he would give Away dragon
eggs to Lourdes to give act access to their daughters for
the night. This is a guy really didn't care

(01:54:01):
about the value of things or about the honor of people or
about history, or Heritage or anything.
Any of the stuff. And this is partly, may be
related to the book burnings andthe switch of Targaryen cultural
distinction, away from Larry andstuff.
Because these items would have been cherished more.
These Target, these items that come from.
They're blurry and cultural background, and he's just giving

(01:54:24):
them away because they don't care about them anymore.
More. Well, other people may have
carried about cared about them just because he did a man may
have been one of the ones was like, yeah, we should get rid of
this stuff because it's, we're not, you know, we're trying to
move away from this Valerian stuff and that's, it's not of
the seven. But again, that might be
projecting. We don't know what a man
thought, he may have, you know, some of the Mistresses he may
have had conversations with strike up conversations with,

(01:54:45):
maybe didn't hate, you know, it's hard for him to imagine him
liking the bracken's or having much to in common with them, but
we do know he was a fan of Melissa.
If we take stock of where the young kids are in the late 17th,
when we're getting kind of closeto the end here, we have bail or
break spear Daemon blackfyre bittersteel and bloodraven.

(01:55:07):
All born in this time, they're all between the ages of two and
seven, of course, none of them have those nicknames yet, but
all of them wanted to be Warriors.
They were all training, may be together or a little bit
separately, who knows? It's not entirely clear, bitter
Shield, may have been back at Stonehedge, whatever.
They're all aware of Prince. Same in the Dragon Knight.
He is the top knight in the kingdom when they're, like, four

(01:55:28):
years old 5 years old. They're all little Brands here,
right there. All worshiping idolizing the
best fanciest famous night in the night.
Really that fancy, but he may seem fancy to them at that age.
That's a big deal. But remember, we can't just
think about bran. We've got Sansa is just as big a
part of this her almost as big apart of this because remember we
pointed out beginning brand thatgreat quote from brand, but we

(01:55:50):
followed it up by the quote fromSansa who was also thinking
about. Salmon.
Because he, his story isn't justabout Marshall Deeds.
It's also about romance and Dutyand all these other aspects of
that, fill the pages of many, great stories.
So the young princess is would have noticed him to maybe even
like Sansa they would have looked up to him maybe

(01:56:10):
fantasized about him or dreamt of a husband like him.
Dana, of course, it took up withegg on to have Daemon blackfyre
Elena, may have young Elena, mayhave wanted a, you know, may
have wanted to fantasize about having someone like aemon, the
dragonknight for her husband maybe raining.
Other rain is more of a Septa bya disposition so she may not
have been thinking about husbands at all.

(01:56:31):
But who knows at some point Fireball?
Quentin ball was brought on to be master-at-arms, because we're
told he's the one that trained. The great bastards though,
though, maybe he didn't come on till after a man's are aware,
not entirely sure, but they may have trained together, Nina
says, aegon the fourth supposedly promised Quentin
ball, he would make him a memberof the kingsguard, but it seems

(01:56:51):
unlikely that this promise was made when a man was So alive
considering egg says, aegon the fourth died before Place became
available because yeah, if that was the case then Fireball would
have maybe taken a man's place when he died, but maybe Fireball
was next, on the list of people being promised.
Either way, he never did get that cloak and it became a

(01:57:13):
problem for him. It's part of why he joined the
black fires or maybe joined is the wrong words.
Let helped lead the black fires might be a better.
And on top of that, we have three new princelings Prince
dare on and Princess Maria had three more sons are.
He's Ray Gill and make our make our son of Amon and egg.
That's a pretty big one. This is even more reason.

(01:57:35):
I hope we see an older princess Elena in the future.
Tales of dunk and egg. Need a rides Elena born in 150.
Would have been seen and known prints?
A man in his prime. And if she really did live to be
70 plus years old, she would be one of the very few people alive
at the end of her life. If not the last person alive who
Would have no name, and as a living being like the lat, she
may have been the last person toshe may have been the only

(01:57:56):
person alive when she died that new Amon when he was alive, at
least close like besides, like some old dude living, you know,
out in the countryside didn't actually know a man, but was
alive at the same time as him. I mean, someone that knew him.
That would have all that's important, because as great, as
he was, his Legend, would have been enhanced by people talking

(01:58:17):
about him, especially family members and carrying that Legend
on and speaking in speaking of him, in terms of great respect
and legit. So let's talk about the case of
Terrence Towing because this ledto the end Terrence Towing was
one of the kingsguard. So it would have been a
subordinate to aimin at this point now King aegon was

(01:58:39):
personally very handsome when hewas young and that helped him
achieve all his bastards by having charm and Charisma and
women being attracted to him. But over time he became quite
gross, he got massively overweight drinking and eating
and wasn't attractive anymore. I got to say, I'm not sure if
you can totally put up the charmand Charisma.

(01:59:00):
There might have been a power Dynamic involved.
Oh yeah totally. You're totally right question
for him hundred percent especially when he was just
mingling with the Commoners more, the power Dynamic women.
Really off the charts and still pretty big even when he was you
know, messing with other Noble women because he's a Targaryen.
And yeah there's there's always going to be that power Dynamic
even with his sister. Like there's never not going to

(01:59:21):
be the power, some sort of powerDynamic.
There is no equal when you're like a prince or a king or
whatever. So, recall that aegon's first
prominent Noble, mistress was Barbara right ever since he had
moved on from her, the Bracken said, scheme to win back that
level of influence via barba's younger sister.
So, here's the explanation of that.
And what transpired quote phaniewas groomed by her father and

(01:59:43):
sister expressly to win the king's favor.
And displace Mr. Blackwood in 177.
She caught a God's eye as he visited at Stonehedge to see his
bastard son egg or by now the King was fat and foul-tempered.
But Bethenny, delighted him and he took her back with him to
King's Landing. However, Bethany found his Royal

(02:00:04):
Embraces distressing for Comfort.
She turned to a knight of the kingsguard Sarah Terrence toyne.
The pair was discovered a bed byaegon himself in 178 oops.
Sarah Terrance was tortured to death and both lady Bethany and
her father were executed lots tounpack, their poor Bethenny,

(02:00:26):
it's groomed by a groomed, is the right word, right?
That is exactly what she was done.
They totally groomed her to be alover to a King who was gross
and cruel. And it works until it horribly
backfired. You can understand why Bethany
was quote distressed by his Embraces.

(02:00:47):
That's the easiest thing to understand here.
Probably. Probably quite an understatement
to yeah. Yes.
What's the most tactful way we do?
You say the king Rapture withoutsaying the king raped her?
Yeah. And then it gets worse because
she was forced to watch as Terence was drawn and quartered
basically, like, for pulled apart, limb from limb.

(02:01:08):
Him and then she was murdered after that executed, then her
own father Terence was handsome as well, which egg on me of this
may have added to aegon's Cruelty.
And well, the Curiosity here is once again, what role did Amon
play? Hear anything.
Did he know about this relationship with Bethenny and

(02:01:31):
Sir, Terrence, is it possible? He's the reason aegon stumbled
upon Terrence And Bethany a bed together.
Did he arrange this? The today accidentally happen?
He maybe didn't realize the extent of it, but he was imagine
that he's ashamed of his own brother for doing this and he

(02:01:51):
does this to get out of it or todraw to a conclusion.
I think maybe he would be a little more upfront about it and
accused the guy in open court, but what's the proof?
You know, maybe he needed to show proof.
This is like, well, I need them to see proof of it.
I need him to and he didn't necessarily see where it would
go from. Here, I don't know how does that
register with you Sean's? That I don't know.

(02:02:12):
I've gone back and forth a little bit thinking about it.
I like I can see that he might have knowledge and about it and
motivation to do something. But like you said, who does he
tell? How does he make people believe
him? You might even think though,
that like couldn't why wouldn't people believe I'm couldn't he
just on his own authority, send him to the wall be like I've

(02:02:33):
you're guilty of his like, who would stop like, I don't know.
Yeah, I think like you could have just done but he still
would have to explain why He's doing it for.
What the heck is that? What point it might be.
I can't imagine that he is trustworthy enough that if you
made this accusation, people were just believe it, but that
might be a little naive again. If I'm imagining this television
show being made all the Intrigueand conflict and distrust, that

(02:02:55):
might be behind all this, and itmight not be that simple.
It still seems one where the other day he would be aware of
the potential extreme reaction aegon would have.
I don't think he would want. Yeah, I don't think right.
Because it Maybe the game was even more extreme than you could
have guessed. Maybe the king even did that to
punish a mon for women is this is one of this, it's one of his

(02:03:17):
people. It's one of your king went you.
This these King Carter under your control.
Your command, you know, you should have been, you should
stop this. I don't know another thing to
consider here. Let me add a couple two.
Other little bits of detail here.
One, is that depending on how seriously aegon takes our, a man
took his vows. He may have really been upset at
Terrance breaking his vows by not being a celibate especially

(02:03:37):
with the kids. Mistress, which is a pretty big
violation on the and Bethenny's the one who replaced Melissa,
who nerys and a man himself liked.
So this this scheming Brackins who he had already helped kick
out, he got rid of it, he helps got rid of them and now they're
back. You know, he already was

(02:03:58):
predisposed to want them gone sohe might have done something
underhanded here to get them God.
Again, and it may have worked better than he had thought, I
don't think he To shed a tear over their executions.
Though he probably wouldn't haveordered this such a gruesome
death for anyone, but right, that's one of my thoughts is all
these things that we consider while I am on, might have done

(02:04:20):
it. Yeah, could be dressed true of
some other kings guard or some other person at court.
They might have also known been motivated to tell because their
Pious for because they believe in the honor of the kingsguard
but didn't know how they could say it, where it would be
believed. And, you know, you see it was
saying, I someone else could have some Allure motivations and
knowledge to a mom. Yeah.

(02:04:41):
And have hinted to the king. You should go to your bedroom
right now or something like that.
Yeah, but they got spider walking around by himself he's
probably got a kingsguard with him at all times.
So he walks into this room. Well, the kingsguard isn't
Terrence because Terrence is in the room when he's with
Bethenny, that's only six kingsguard.
So you've Maybe there's even a one in six chance that a man was
literally with him when this happens and that, yeah, adds a

(02:05:03):
little more to it as like, but Istill have this tendency to
think that a man would not have wanted the consequences for this
to be what they were. I agree.
Yeah, on the other hand. So, where we ask ourselves, are
we being too rosy with our view of him?
This is a good time to ask the to re-ask that question.
Maybe we're being too, you know,Rosie with our view of a man's

(02:05:25):
personality maybe like You said maybe this level of extreme
violence, maybe that isn't too much for him.
Given all he's seen and done except that we don't have
another good example of it. That's the district that's why
I'm suspicious. Yeah, I agree, I agree.
There's I tend to agree with youthat he would not have been okay
with this extremely violent execution but he might have
still been okay with an execution.

(02:05:45):
Since this guy violated his dutypretty clearly and doesn't
belong to wear the white Club, maybe he would have been like
send him to the wall. But like really.
That's what I would expect him with a gelding.
Like they did to Luca more strong.
That's and in fact, that had been Least 60 no more than 60 80
years in the past, that was still would have been
remembered. I mean, people still remember,
Luca more strong in A Song of Ice and Fire, which is way
later. So maybe that's what a man would

(02:06:07):
have expected the consequences to be like Bethenny gets kicked
out. Maybe she's executed and
Terrence is sent to the wall. Maybe that was his expectation
if so, maybe that was naive because his brother is a lot
more vindictive and narcissisticthan that anyway it's a very
edging open question again. Another one is if this is ever
on Screen. Or on book in book form fleshed

(02:06:30):
out a lot of different ways theycould do it a lot of and yeah a
lot of interesting ways for themto do it, a lot of compelling
ways them to do it and I would love to see that unless they
choose badly after which optionsto do it.
Harris, oh, cart as well. Need to point out are so card
internally acknowledges that borrows blunt was no stranger to
the street of silk and surpressing Greenfield used to

(02:06:52):
call it a certain Draper's house, whenever the Draper was
away and barristan new Prince, Lewin Martel kept a paramour.
He was in the kingsguard there may be sort of a
don't-ask-don't-tell attitude among kingsguard, like, if you
need, you know, yes, we're supposed to be celibate, but I
get it if you don't need to kindof like the Nights Watch has
moles town, A man may have been one of them not like, as in

(02:07:15):
going to do that himself becauseI kind of doubt that but he may
have been part of that Brotherhood and understood that.
Yeah, look, just keep it under wraps.
Don't sleep with anyone important.
You know, just don't have kids. Otherwise, I'll turn a blind
eye, but maybe a man was Hardcore.
He's like, no, absolutely. We do letter the law Duty and
you sleeping around is completely off the table, we

(02:07:36):
don't know. Either way, at some point after
this probably sooner rather thanlater, but no later than the
year 183, but probably closer tothe year 178 when this coin
thing happens. It was Revenge.
That's why I think was closer rather than later.

(02:07:57):
Yes, revenge is a dish, best served cold but this appears to
be a case with blood running hot.
So it probably happened relatively soon after which is
the toy lines decided that wouldhappen to their brother was too
much and they plan some kind of Ambush.
It's possible that King aegon like took away their land as
well. So they had even more incentive

(02:08:17):
but there's nothing of that mentioned.
So they ended up with no land after this one way or the other
either. Or after this incident, they
cease to be a chartered house inWesteros though.
They still exist maybe to this day although maybe not, we'll
see. So, here's what happened, some
sort of Ambush, it's sort of reminds us of what might happen
with the kettle blacks. It reminds Jamie of that too

(02:08:40):
because he mentions them here inthis anecdote.
While mentioning sir, Osman kettle black in particular
quote, I don't think it would beproper for me to slay my known
sworn brother, but I need to do is guilt him and send him to the
wall. That's what they did with Luca
more, the Lusty sir. Osman may not take kindly to the
gilding to be sure. And there are his brothers to
consider Brothers can be dangerous after, aegon, the

(02:09:03):
Unworthy put search warrants twine to death for sleeping with
his mistress twins. Brothers did their best to kill
him. Your best is not quite good
enough. Thanks to the Dragon Knight, but
it was not for want of trying. It is written down in the white
book. All of it, save what to do with
Circe. Let's not forget the twins
appeared in a few other interesting.
Places such as in the Kingswood Brotherhood, led by Simon toyne.

(02:09:25):
Myles toyne, take a black heart.Who was Captain?
General of the golden company before homeless Airy Strickland
so only one Captain General ago.So the reverse of what happened
with Darren. The first happened here, where
the king died in a man survived.This time, a man died in the
king survived. Certainly a worthy death.
Even though it was his unworthy brother, it's a real conundrum
of sorts for the kingsguard. It would have been like if

(02:09:46):
you're a kingsguard in the spot especially at dutiful kingsguard
takes his job, very seriously. Like we think a man seems to do.
It would have been Unthinkable for Him to lose a fifth King, a
fish like that, even though the first one was tuberculosis, you
may be right. That one of the still Four
Kings, this guy is not yet. Fifty Heyman and doesn't make it

(02:10:07):
250 because he dies in this Ambush, on the other hand, the
realm like Tywin being like yeah.
If the King dies, we get rhaegar's King.
That seems like an improvement, right guys.
The realm would have been betteroff with their on the second
ascending sooner, he did Ascend and it was pretty good, but
hence, just named are on the good but it would have been
better if it had happened soonerbecause it would have avoided a

(02:10:29):
keg on giving black fire. Today, I'm in waters and some
other things like that, and Ninawonders to what's going on in
his head. Maybe it's just all happening so
fast that he has no time for conscious thought but I would be
real interesting in cinematic ifit was his final moments and
you're going like his life is flashing before him and you're
trying Write it like as amazingly as possible and slow

(02:10:52):
it down to make it really dramatic.
You know, says, I wonder whethera man was perhaps less careful
than he might have been in fighting the toy lines when it
eventually killed him, because this was the deaf.
He in a strange way may have wanted to have, he had watched
Four Kings die without being able to stop any of them when
doing so, for men who seems to have taken the valves, the
kingsguard this may have seemed like a bitter record to him a
mark of failure. Like, yeah, he's remembered as a

(02:11:13):
legend but he might not have seen himself that way during his
own life. Given what a King's Guard is
supposed to do. And what his bottom line record
was which is lots of Kings died under his watch on top of that,
a man may have wondered how longhe would have been able to stay
in his physical prime. It's certainly not impossible
for West Rossi nice to remain, deadly into their older ages.
I mean, look at barristan, but aman may have lost a step.

(02:11:35):
He's in his mid-40s, probably not as quick and maybe is strong
but not as doesn't have the stamina necessarily.
He used to have, probably not the quickness makes up for some
of that with wisdom. Experience.
But yeah, I mean age does take atoll.
So how many more years can you go like this?
Maybe he would have preferred todie when he was still at his

(02:11:57):
relatively top form rather than aging down and dying marida.
Minimally like you want when you're a war, you're going to
sing when he died with a sword in hand.
I mean, intellectual you can understand that.
Maybe not like yeah, I want you to know.
I don't, I'm more like Tyrion for what I want out of my want a
diet with this sword in my hand in bed with the one.

(02:12:18):
Winery at 80 years old. Yeah, before I can go to
Valhalla, right? And like Syrio forel consider
like why did he run away? Hmm.
Because he kind of like the death you want.
He wanted to die with sword in hand.
He didn't want to run away and could see maybe his Decline and

(02:12:38):
in the near future was like wellthis is this is as good a time
as any it's this may be hard to wrap your head around that but
it's not unrealistic. You know, it may seem
unrealistic but there's a lot ofpeople who think like that Be
less these days maybe not in ourSocial Circles but it's a
realistic mindset philosophy. Life Philosophy for a person of
great Duty who lives a life of Marshall Valor and as expected

(02:13:00):
to die with sword in hand their whole life and not just and not
just they tell themselves that they like really deeply
sincerely. Believe that worth noting also
just add on to all that. Like that's there's a reason to
King's Guard is in supposed to have a family or lands like
there's not some other thing. He's worried about my I gotta
take care of my kids or yeah, wife will never forgive me or

(02:13:21):
something like that, which is interesting to consider with him
because his sister was the queen, so he did care.
He did have that he did, you know, he needed to be around,
maybe to protect her and maybe his cousins and his nephews or
whatever, but they weren't children of his own body and
less less. The rumors are true and there,
which I don't think any of the three of us believe that though.

(02:13:41):
So King aegon, predictably did not mourn his brother, despite
the dude dying to save him. I mean, what a jerk.
Unworthy, truly is an understatement.
I mean, this guy is just all theways.
He can disappoint you, he does. He also, predictably went right
back to sleeping with Nares or rather.
He probably never stopped. Even though he had all those

(02:14:02):
Mistresses Nares, became pregnant once more.
In this time, she did die in childbirth, about a year later
and she was probably weaker because of the grief of her.
Dying Ferb are unworthy brother like that didn't help her health
situation. I couldn't have made her feel
better, certainly, so she's probably weaker than ever.
Let's finish in a manner that serves to bookend how we began,

(02:14:23):
which is how he fits into A Songof Ice and Fire.
We started by quoting very earlyon examples of young characters,
which is important that their young characters, because it
shows how even this current generation still worships his
memory and thinks of him as one of the greatest of all time.
Makar as in father of Amon maester aemon and egg and Ariane

(02:14:46):
and dare on the drunkard, make our may have been born after.
Raymond died. There's a range of when make our
was born. We're not sure.
But more likely make our was about two or three years old.
So he was may have been at a very influential age when the
family lost a man to his heroic death. 20 years later, ish is
when maester aemon will be born,not yet.

(02:15:09):
It makes Ur obviously comes out wearing the chain, talk about
Born To Be A maester literally but make so make our 20 years
later roughly after his death will named his son a man.
So not that long but maybe like 18 years not even card clear.
Daemon blackfyre will be called.Quote another Dragon Knight by
some an egg on may have been eager to have a son of his

(02:15:32):
overshadow. His brother.
He may have like that talk. I'm like, yeah.
If I can't best my own brother, maybe one of my sons will and
that may have been why he gave him black fired.
Such a young age at age 12, and of course, his name is similar
to Damon, Damon and and Daemon. Blackfyre is the great-grandson
of Prince Damon Rider of cracks.He's Owner, how much cause an

(02:15:53):
effect there is there also, like, I wonder if it 12, he was
just a kid, it wasn't some amazing, great Prodigy Warrior.
But once his dad, gave him that sword like salty had to live up
to it. People around him, trained him
better, maybe a little boat, buthe got to turn him.
He got the sword after winning atournament at Squires tournament
so he did show character skill. Yeah.

(02:16:14):
But it will be a little interesting like competition
between him and Baylor break spear as youngsters because
there are they were born a year apart, so they're really close.
An age and Baylor will beat him in another tournament like a
little later. And that's, yeah.
So that back and forth until they're older.
But both Baylor, we know Baylor's personality Daemon
blackfyre was very chivalrous tovery chivalrous, very Noble,

(02:16:36):
very honored, despite being a rebel, right?
He was well regarded in this part of why he was such a
popular Rebel. Start to be my some people join
him. He had that Renly thing going
where everybody liked him exceptit really wasn't good at
fighting rounds like it's he take renly's popularity and
merge it with Any of the best fighters you can think of, and
that's Daemon blackfyre. And the reason I'm varying off

(02:16:56):
talk about Damon is that Damon again born in the shadow of a
man? The Dragonite, this chivalry,
this personality very likely to have been partly or greatly
influenced by in the Dragon Knight.
That's the guy who's trying to be like right down to wielding
of Larry and steel Blade. The other great Targaryen sword
but whereas Haman was content and quite dutiful to be

(02:17:17):
supporting member the family. Damon was talked into trying to
take over. And Damon.
What is he named his first two sons?
His twin sons aegon and Ava has two twin sets killed on the red
grass field by the arrows of bloodraven and the Ravens teeth.

(02:17:38):
So, after hearing all that, all this stories, everything we've
said about is no wonder he comesup so much in A Song of Ice and
Fire her. I mean, just so many things that
he embodies about westerosi values, even when people don't
actually live up to those things.
Even, some of them are these things are just things.
People say they believe, but don't actually even try to live
up to the kind of thing that sandor Clegane.

(02:17:59):
If he was confronted with a man,the Dragon Knight he might be
like what do I say about this guy?
This guy kind of breaks the moldof my cynicism maybe if the
Always are accurate. Yeah, extremely well-rounded
character despite the substantial missing elements
family drama, romantic tragedy suffering cruelty.
Great success, in war incredibleself-sacrifice on multiple

(02:18:22):
occasions, someone who's actually chose Duty over love
probably in world. He was unparalleled even those
few who maybe is equal in combator honor, we're not targaryens
or, you know, unless you want toconsider Daemon Targaryen, he
was a blackfyre. There's no substitute for that.
When building a legend just being the best for being thought
of as the best, all the qualities he possessed it made.
Everyone else seemed unworthy, especially his brother.

(02:18:43):
Hey friend. Our Deep dive shows that he was
far from perfect and possess. Some of the qualities, we see
repeatedly, among those seen at the Pinnacle of Westeros.
He honored some of the things that our world doesn't agree
with like valuing, honor over Justice or valuing obedience
over decency or valuing men overwomen, have things like that.
Like, we don't in the modern world, I hope we don't agree

(02:19:04):
with that both silver. Essex, I think is another one
who like, they think an oath. Is more important than just
being a good person, which I disagree with that.
I think ethics Trump any oath, you may have made, you shouldn't
do bad things. Just because you took a vow out
and not do that, I don't know. But overall, it's pretty hard to
find flaw with how even lived his life especially given the

(02:19:25):
context and setting. It's not a new topic for us to
criticize the small bit while still looking at the hole and
saying, yes, That's the truth. The overall, you know, this is
the so much in the good column, it's a little in the bad column.
But again, we ask ourselves as we leave this.
Did we fall for the legend to? Is he actually maybe not so

(02:19:47):
great and does the story of a man and Aries, tell us anything
more about what's coming for Cersei and Jaime and or Marjorie
and loras. Any other parallels Nina, says I
don't particularly think so. Except as another exploration of
some of the same themes, the author explores with these
characters, George likes to testmany of his characters with the
same challenges, especially the very central conflict of Duty

(02:20:08):
versus love. Marries a name and face
something of the same dilemma Jaime and Cersei do the
kingsguard night, his sister Queen.
Her lecherous Royal husband, butend up in a much different
situation position, the realm isdifferent, even though Westeros
Westeros the sort of stuck in a lack of development Loop.
Still a lot of Trish cultural things that are different and

(02:20:29):
things happening around the realm that are very different
from when you compare Jaime and Cersei to aim and Nares, despite
how many things they have in common.
Nina continues here to say, Mary's name.
And probably didn't have a sexual relationship with Jaime.
And Cersei did Aaron was almost certainly the king's own son
unlike cersei's children which they're not Roberts, children,
and aegon outlived. Both the brother who died for
him and his Queen instead of Robert being killed.

(02:20:49):
Thanks in part to Cersei scheme.So that's another big
difference. Is that the Jamie and this
scenario died, first name is a name is Virgin.
Where is Robert died? The egg on died, first, in A
Song of Ice and Fire and all hisbastard, still out there and
that caused sort of the black. Fire, Rebellion, ish, situation
to happen at the same time rather than a delay of those

(02:21:10):
things for 10 more years, while more bastards were born or maybe
not 10 years. But yeah.
Anyway, a while it is interesting to think about how
things might have gone down if Robert did live two more years.
Yeah. How much more drunk and removed
from reality he might have got how much more problematic.
All the bastards would have beenyou know maybe a bit maybe
Searcy did a good thing by driving him to his death.

(02:21:32):
He would have been a sign of hermotivations were whatever.
I think she might have done. Yeah.
Right. So as we've touched on a bit off
and on throughout this these twoepisodes this era certainly has
a lot to offer as a TV show. But stories big and small woven
together in a world familiar to us yet.
Distinct enough from the other sections of the timeline.
We've seen that it could be justincredible.

(02:21:53):
There are characters to love andhate.
There's deaths to be sad about plenty of gaps in the record, to
be filled in, like you said Shawn with just unexpected
things that writers could have to just let loose and do their
own thing with while just sticking.
Going to the confines of what's been laid out in terms of War an
action. There'd be some of that.
But it wouldn't be the focus andit would be stripped down.
You would have still have heroicdeeds and danger nightly combat.

(02:22:15):
But for one thing, yes, a it wouldn't be a focus Like A Song
of Ice and Fire In The Dance with Dragons.
There'd be no Supernatural elements, unlike either that
would be a big difference is no others, there's no dragons,
there's no White's. I mean, you might have Wildfire,
but that's not really. That's barely magical.
They fit and I have visions or Claire.
Yes, Yes. Mine might have have that, but
and you might even somehow work tonight.

(02:22:35):
Exciting or fantastic is dragonsbut it still would be an
intriguing element. Yeah.
As a way to set them up or the way to predict the Mirza way to
have expectations for them, which you could then shatter, or
undermine through clever writing, or yeah, the general
nature of prophecies. So given how often he's been
mentioned a date. And given his life does not fall
during the range of Fire and Blood but will fall during blood

(02:22:58):
and fire AK Fire and Blood too. There will definitely be more to
print same and story and more isresonance in connection to A
Song of Ice and Fire as well because he's probably gonna get
mentioned. Again is is often, he's been
mentioned in the other books, you'll probably get mentioned
and the Winds of Winter and the dream.
I had a dream of spring even if it's not a lot it might be and
it might be some pretty big details which might lead to more

(02:23:19):
parallels, more personality, andmore fun.
For sure. He'll be back.
So will we with him and other topics?
All right. Yeah, has the pole written out
here. The final version of the poll
looks like 50 live voters here. 40 percent.
Yes. Okay.
So it did turn a little bit hacha?

(02:23:40):
Yeah. Turned a little bit but still a
lot of 28 percent, I'm sure, Tony a bit unsure and 31% know.
So, 40% people think it was romantic.
I'm a little surprised we arguedagainst that yet, most of y'all.
Well, not most 40%, y'all, not most yeah.
Majority of people who have the largest opinion plurality but
not the majority. Yeah.

(02:24:00):
The trivia answer the question again was, who does Jamie
consider half the size but twiceas mad as Gregor Clegane, a
great name considering who our sponsor is The Smiling Knight.
I bet he had very white teeth toThe Smiling nights.

(02:24:22):
Most of all, people did guess that's time with the first
person in quickest. Yes, was Carl karstark?
Good job, Karl car snark. You got the smiling Knight
first. Well done, and your reward.
Is this shout out that has just happened?
It's my night was, he was part of like a band or like a
Brotherhood. Yeah, that's it.
The Kings, he was sort of co-commander to Simon toyne who

(02:24:42):
was mentioned, briefly in this episode 2 and that's where I got
the idea from for this trip craters, like, It's like I'm
frozen by The Smiling, moon was smiling night.
We don't know what his real namewas, just the smiling Knight
whatever. His actual name was lost next
week, trial by Theory beating out.
Second place, was it murder and two other topics.
Don't forget, you can join in the voting by joining us on

(02:25:03):
patreon. At patreon.com slash history of
Westeros, variety of levels and types of pledges and bonuses.
You can get from us for your support and we do appreciate
that. We also appreciate.
If you tell your friends about it, Spreading the word through
word of mouth about us is one ofthe most effective ways we've
found over the years of doing this for ten plus years.

(02:25:24):
So, thank you. If you do that episodes, we
mentioned in this one include you want to stay immersed and
stay in Westeros and keep the story going, The Dusk, and Dale
episode. I mentioned to find some desk
and Dale where Aries is recognized rescued by barristan
selmy, a lot of familiar characters in that one.
Some mention of Targaryen dreamsas well.

(02:25:45):
Barristan and Are in that one, alot dare on the young dragon, of
course, A lot of these episodes I mentioned last week because
it's the same topic. So the same overlap will be
there. Dark sister the Lost Larry and
steel aegon. The Unworthy, the whole black
Fire series the free city of list.
You may have listened to some ofthese this past week when I
suggested it, but probably not all of them because that's a lot
of episodes. Blackfyre series alone is like

(02:26:06):
nine episodes or ten episodes. So that's a big spicy meatball,
huh? Some of you may have already
listened to it, but maybe it's time for a real listen.
And either way, we'll be back next week with more.
Thanks to any of you who have signed up to subscribe.
Thanks to Nina for Herrera valuable notes, as usual, say,

(02:26:28):
two things. Yeah, sure, please riff.
Now that the episodes over, go check out Michaels movie.
Just your reminder again. Yes, to look up that link.
And to speaking of being recognized really weird if you
were the person that recognized us a big gigantic on Saturday
night. Stop lurking.
And come say hi. You live in it.
Lanta and you go to EDM shows. I wish I saw you again.

(02:26:50):
It was very random. We went to big gigantic last
night and as soon as we got there, someone recognized us
it's not like we get recognized a lot so it's a pretty, it's
happened, maybe once like three or four times a year maybe at
most down and then almost countsconventions.
The concerts I'm like you know Ilove going to EDM shows you know
if you live in the area and you go you know hit me up.

(02:27:11):
Yeah saying or hit me up you canhit either of us up.
Okay now I don't ahead as he's up, don't hit me up.
I'm boring. If you want to get a cat, is it
too late? Shawn someone did ask for the
cat. I'll run again if you can you
can really get the cat. I think it's worth it.
If it is my standard is that sometimes I let Shawn get away

(02:27:31):
without showing us the cat but if someone explicitly asks in
the chat I'm like, let's do it. There's a little more special.
If we don't do it every time, yeah, we do have a growing.
Thanks as well to Joey, Jesse and bran for our various musical
intros and just Music. Depending very helpful, very

(02:27:54):
wonderful to have that from our friends to make our show better
start brand in particular who you know you could commission.
You could hire he is doing this as his jaw, there's a kitty.
But yeah you absolutely could hejust did a really cool ad for a
path water. The water bottle company is so
extra, shout out to him this week.
I look at that cat. So sweet.

(02:28:16):
Mmm. Oh yeah, there we go.
Got a kitty. Look at this long episode.
We got home. Two hours, 46 minutes.
Then we got out here, one of ourcats in the background meowing
us, but there are microphones, aren't picking that up, meow
cats everywhere. Folks, we do love our cats.
Yeah, so yeah. Check out my quilt are filled
movie like a che. I said, we'll put links all over

(02:28:37):
or just search for Michael far-field.
KLA, are FLD meal from, not onlyfind the movie probably but his
website. Claire, docks dot they'e, where
you find This map and many others that are cool like it.
So from all of us, the history of Westeros, both human and
Feline until next time you know what to do, well, our reread us
This map and many others that are cool like it.
So from all of us, the history of Westeros, both human and
Feline until next time you know what to do, well, our reread us

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Prince Aemon the Dragonknight (Part 2)

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