February 14, 2022 • 12 mins
David Drucker, The Washington Examiner's senior political correspondent (and author of the book "In Trump's Shadow), joins Joe for look inside the beltway as both parties gear-up for the midterms.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Conversation with David Drucker of the Washington Examineries, the senior
political correspondent, that fine publications being a fine publications. David's
the author of In Trump's Shadow, The Battle for and
the Future of the GOP. David, how are you, sir?
I'm great, terrific. Oh yeah, absolutely, it's good to talk
to you. So, Uh, speaking of In Trump's Shadow and
(00:23):
and the state of the GOP, I actually want to
take a look, if you will, at both parties and
the conflicts of the divisions therein. But we can start
on the Republican side. I mean Liz Cheney Adam Kingsinger
of Illinois, recently centured by the r n C. Mitch
McConnell shoots back that that's idiotic and useless and divisive
and and the rest of it. Uh, what's the what's
(00:44):
the state of the Republican Party at this point from
your perch there in the Capitol. Well, it depends on
how you want to look at the party. I mean,
the party is on track for uh big games in
mental elections. Um, I think they're they're on track to
win control of the House and Senate and possibly by
big margins. So when you want to look at win
(01:05):
loss and judge a parties political viability that way, which
seems to make sense to most people. Uh. You know,
they're they're in pretty good shape. Um. When you look
at the evolving nature of the Republican Party, when you
look at the party in long term, there are some
more uncertainties out there. Obviously, the party continues to realign somewhat,
(01:27):
and you have this ongoing battle between the traditional conservatives
and the conservative populace in the party. I think former
President Donald Trump's fixation on the elections long term is
not helpful to the party. Um. And those could have
consequences in four especially if Republicans do well in two,
(01:50):
there are all of a sudden and this is the
problem you want, of course, that you're gonna they're gonna
share responsibility for governing. Um. We've seen past Democratic presidents
get repudiated midj terms and then recover in their re
election bids. Uh. And we've seen Republicans suffer in mid
terms in presidential or midterm elections and then recover two
years later. So Uh, it's by every measure that matters.
(02:14):
In the moment, Republicans are doing very well. Their fundraising
is up. Uh. Their political organization is doing well when
you look at some of these longer term trends, whether
the party is getting along, whether they're willing to cooperate
with each other to form a majority coalition in a
national election. Death still remains to be seen. And it
(02:35):
is a concern among some Republicans. I talked to you,
and I think they're right to be concerned about it.
But this is not an either or scenario, nor is
it remotely all dumid globe. You know, I'm ambivalent about
a lot of this stuff. Is a conservative um, I
just you know, I mixed feelings on a lot of it.
But what do you think of this? Notion? That? And
(02:58):
and well Trump's fixation election, I think he's making him
less relevant going forward. If if Trump were focused hard,
focused on inflation, the border, people's living conditions, you know,
dinner table issues, um, and not obsessing over election, his
(03:20):
shadow would be looming even more over the Republican Party.
His influence I think would have grown. Well. You know,
when I asked Trump about this, when I interviewed him
last year for in Trump Shadow, and I asked him
if he thought his his you know, decision to constantly
beat the Bush about the you know what he thinks
happened in I said, you know, doesn't it make it
(03:43):
harder for your party to win control of the House
and Senate in mid grom elections? And this was before
president by approval numbers had dropped and things looked so
good for Republicans And he said, yeah, maybe so, but
I don't really care. And then he also said, well,
I think this will help energize our face because that's
what they're interested in. So you were is a really
good question. What I would say about this is that
(04:05):
there are a number of Republican primaries in big states
and Senate races, never mind House races, and some governors
races where they all where they agree with Trump, these
primary candidates and won't say otherwise, and maybe they secretly
disagree with them but refused to say it. And if
you end up with nominees and some of these key
(04:26):
races with candidates who also want to talk about, you know,
an election beat stolen despite um an incredible lack of
evidence to that effect, then this issue is not going
to go away. Now in many of these states, I
still think the Republican nominee wins anyway. I mean, I
tend to think that whoever wins Ohio and just about
all of them say Trump's right, the election was stolen.
(04:48):
The nominee in the Ohio Senate race is gonna win.
The nominee in the North Carolina Senate race is likely
to win. The nominee in the Pennsylvania Senate races likely
to win. So it's not going to hurt in the
near term, but it is going to keep alive this
notion in the party um that Trump is right. And
then of course you have voters who want to focus
on the future. Given how the nature of how much
(05:11):
trouble the Democrats are in, and given it they're in
charge in Washington, I don't think this kind of this
kind of conversation is going to hurt Republicans were the party.
I think they're still given the Democrats super thin margins
in the House and Senate and everything else, Republicans are
still likely to have a really good election, which of
course is going to make some things that that there's
(05:31):
no problem in talking about a stolen election that wasn't stolen.
And and that's why I say it possibly becomes a
problem in David Drucker of the Washington Examiner on the line,
one more question about the Republicans before we moved across
the aisle. Uh. It seems to us that there are
a lot of really interesting and encouraging trends for the
(05:51):
Republican Party. Uh. More folks of color, more working class
people are moving the Republican way, and it feels like
the Democrats are becoming the party of the suburban, social
degree holding elites of America. To what extent is that true, Well,
it's I think that the signs are there that this
(06:12):
is happening. Before I make b linket predictions, I like
to see how things play out over time. But we
have seen Republicans make games with Hispanic voters. For instance,
Donald Trump won Um, a county along the Mexican border
in Texas that Republicans had not captured in a presidential
race in a hundred years. And I think what this
trend is about is as the Republican Party, at least
(06:35):
for the time being, becomes more of a working class
party where more of its voters tend to be blue
collar um workers. Well, there are lots of Hispanics and
lots of voters that are not white that are a
part of the working class that had long seen the
Democrats as the party of the working class and now
(06:56):
believe that the Republicans are the party of the working class,
both from an economic standpoint and from a cultural standpoint.
And by the same token, we have seen some suburban
voters UM and we've seen some evidence of this, some
sort of white collar suburban voters of both of you know,
both of of all races, but but you know, particularly
(07:17):
these white suburban, white collar UM workers who had long
voted Republican finding more cultural affinity with the Democrats. So
we've seen some of this realignments. All of these things
are sort of dependent on who the next Republican nominee
is twenty four, what kind of coalition they're able to cement,
what the economic and geopolitical conditions in the country and
(07:40):
the world are, and how you know, the two nominees
position their parties in that contest. But the size are
definitely there that this is beginning to happen um, and
so it'll be interesting to see what happens, not so
much in midterm elections, because we've seen non white voters
flocked to Republicans and greater degree in mid term elections
with Democrats trouble. But how But but it will be
(08:02):
more interesting to see if we see a continuation of
what we saw in twenty happen again in four Okay,
we just have a couple of minutes left. But one
of the thing we've talked about a lot around here
is to what extent do you think the Democratic Party
is being led by the woke energy on Twitter and
among congressional staffers, and Twitter is not America, to what
(08:26):
extent do you think they're being you know, the dog
of the Democratic Party is being wagged by the tail or?
Or does the woke left have that much haft? Well, look,
I think I think there is some validity to this.
Both parties, as polarization has increased over the past two decades,
have been led or influenced more by their base of
(08:52):
committed voters. Right. You know, we've seen in covering the
Republican Party over twenty years the influence that the Republican
base often has. These the committed conservatives often have in
in in the party, in part because in house races,
where most districts are drawn to elect one or the
other party, it's the primary that really counts. And if
(09:16):
you don't play to your primary audience, you don't get
to the general election where you're going to win easily.
And so I think that what we're seeing in the
Democratic Party now is something we have seen four years
in the Republican Party, and they are being influenced to
a huge degree by the far left flank of their party.
And I think we've seen this most notably when it
(09:39):
comes to pandemic policy coming out of the White House. No,
Joe Biden can't win in this regard, UH. In Republicans certainly,
but even but especially Independence really want to shift to
a posture of policy on the pandemic that that recognizes
or believes that the coronavirus is just not going anywhere,
(10:00):
uh for the foreseeable future, and and get us back
to a normal footing, just doing living like we did
before in the pandemic, but taking you know, precautions as
they are necessary. Left point and the Democratic base of
the Democratic Party doesn't mean Joe Biden's doing enough to
protect against the coronavirus. They want stricter mandates on vaccines,
(10:22):
more mandates on vacate scenes, stricter and more mandates on
mask wearing and and the like. And that belief on
the far left length of the party is influencing how
many Democrats in Washington at least are reacting to the pandemic,
but politically and from a policy standpoint, and it's far
(10:44):
different than what you're seeing from center left Democrats and
independence who may tend to vote Democrat. And we've seen,
you know, the Democratic governors around the country are starting
to react to the broader number of Democratic voters in
their states rather than the most committed liberals. But it
is definitely having an impact. And you're right when you
(11:04):
point out that Twitter is not real life needed on
the right or the less, and when politicians cater to Twitter,
they end up in trouble with a broader number of
voters they need to win re election. Well, and your
point about the COVID policy is a great one and
such a such a strange chapter of American history we're
all living through. I'd like to write the book Culture
and COVID if I only had the time. But um,
(11:26):
let's remember Glenn Youcan is the governor of Virginia. Not
so much because the critical race theory stuff that got
so much attention, purely because he ran on get the
kids back in school. The kids need to be in school,
and that hardcore left flank of the Democratic Party is
just have four year olds and masks and and send
everybody home the minute anybody gets COVID and uh, that
(11:48):
is just absolute electoral poison. I think to an extent
that the mainstream media does not adequately reflect. But David
Drucker of The Washington Examiner, David, I wish we could
talk all day, but I'm afraid we're up against a break.
But it's to talk to you. Good luck with the
book in Trump's Shadow, The Battle for four in the
Future of the GOP. Thanks David, thanks so much. Good
to talk
Conversation with David Drucker of the Washington Examineries, the senior
political correspondent, that fine publications being a fine publications. David's
the author of In Trump's Shadow, The Battle for and
the Future of the GOP. David, how are you, sir?
I'm great, terrific. Oh yeah, absolutely, it's good to talk
to you. So, Uh, speaking of In Trump's Shadow and
(00:23):
and the state of the GOP, I actually want to
take a look, if you will, at both parties and
the conflicts of the divisions therein. But we can start
on the Republican side. I mean Liz Cheney Adam Kingsinger
of Illinois, recently centured by the r n C. Mitch
McConnell shoots back that that's idiotic and useless and divisive
and and the rest of it. Uh, what's the what's
(00:44):
the state of the Republican Party at this point from
your perch there in the Capitol. Well, it depends on
how you want to look at the party. I mean,
the party is on track for uh big games in
mental elections. Um, I think they're they're on track to
win control of the House and Senate and possibly by
big margins. So when you want to look at win
(01:05):
loss and judge a parties political viability that way, which
seems to make sense to most people. Uh. You know,
they're they're in pretty good shape. Um. When you look
at the evolving nature of the Republican Party, when you
look at the party in long term, there are some
more uncertainties out there. Obviously, the party continues to realign somewhat,
(01:27):
and you have this ongoing battle between the traditional conservatives
and the conservative populace in the party. I think former
President Donald Trump's fixation on the elections long term is
not helpful to the party. Um. And those could have
consequences in four especially if Republicans do well in two,
(01:50):
there are all of a sudden and this is the
problem you want, of course, that you're gonna they're gonna
share responsibility for governing. Um. We've seen past Democratic presidents
get repudiated midj terms and then recover in their re
election bids. Uh. And we've seen Republicans suffer in mid
terms in presidential or midterm elections and then recover two
years later. So Uh, it's by every measure that matters.
(02:14):
In the moment, Republicans are doing very well. Their fundraising
is up. Uh. Their political organization is doing well when
you look at some of these longer term trends, whether
the party is getting along, whether they're willing to cooperate
with each other to form a majority coalition in a
national election. Death still remains to be seen. And it
(02:35):
is a concern among some Republicans. I talked to you,
and I think they're right to be concerned about it.
But this is not an either or scenario, nor is
it remotely all dumid globe. You know, I'm ambivalent about
a lot of this stuff. Is a conservative um, I
just you know, I mixed feelings on a lot of it.
But what do you think of this? Notion? That? And
(02:58):
and well Trump's fixation election, I think he's making him
less relevant going forward. If if Trump were focused hard,
focused on inflation, the border, people's living conditions, you know,
dinner table issues, um, and not obsessing over election, his
(03:20):
shadow would be looming even more over the Republican Party.
His influence I think would have grown. Well. You know,
when I asked Trump about this, when I interviewed him
last year for in Trump Shadow, and I asked him
if he thought his his you know, decision to constantly
beat the Bush about the you know what he thinks
happened in I said, you know, doesn't it make it
(03:43):
harder for your party to win control of the House
and Senate in mid grom elections? And this was before
president by approval numbers had dropped and things looked so
good for Republicans And he said, yeah, maybe so, but
I don't really care. And then he also said, well,
I think this will help energize our face because that's
what they're interested in. So you were is a really
good question. What I would say about this is that
(04:05):
there are a number of Republican primaries in big states
and Senate races, never mind House races, and some governors
races where they all where they agree with Trump, these
primary candidates and won't say otherwise, and maybe they secretly
disagree with them but refused to say it. And if
you end up with nominees and some of these key
(04:26):
races with candidates who also want to talk about, you know,
an election beat stolen despite um an incredible lack of
evidence to that effect, then this issue is not going
to go away. Now in many of these states, I
still think the Republican nominee wins anyway. I mean, I
tend to think that whoever wins Ohio and just about
all of them say Trump's right, the election was stolen.
(04:48):
The nominee in the Ohio Senate race is gonna win.
The nominee in the North Carolina Senate race is likely
to win. The nominee in the Pennsylvania Senate races likely
to win. So it's not going to hurt in the
near term, but it is going to keep alive this
notion in the party um that Trump is right. And
then of course you have voters who want to focus
on the future. Given how the nature of how much
(05:11):
trouble the Democrats are in, and given it they're in
charge in Washington, I don't think this kind of this
kind of conversation is going to hurt Republicans were the party.
I think they're still given the Democrats super thin margins
in the House and Senate and everything else, Republicans are
still likely to have a really good election, which of
course is going to make some things that that there's
(05:31):
no problem in talking about a stolen election that wasn't stolen.
And and that's why I say it possibly becomes a
problem in David Drucker of the Washington Examiner on the line,
one more question about the Republicans before we moved across
the aisle. Uh. It seems to us that there are
a lot of really interesting and encouraging trends for the
(05:51):
Republican Party. Uh. More folks of color, more working class
people are moving the Republican way, and it feels like
the Democrats are becoming the party of the suburban, social
degree holding elites of America. To what extent is that true, Well,
it's I think that the signs are there that this
(06:12):
is happening. Before I make b linket predictions, I like
to see how things play out over time. But we
have seen Republicans make games with Hispanic voters. For instance,
Donald Trump won Um, a county along the Mexican border
in Texas that Republicans had not captured in a presidential
race in a hundred years. And I think what this
trend is about is as the Republican Party, at least
(06:35):
for the time being, becomes more of a working class
party where more of its voters tend to be blue
collar um workers. Well, there are lots of Hispanics and
lots of voters that are not white that are a
part of the working class that had long seen the
Democrats as the party of the working class and now
(06:56):
believe that the Republicans are the party of the working class,
both from an economic standpoint and from a cultural standpoint.
And by the same token, we have seen some suburban
voters UM and we've seen some evidence of this, some
sort of white collar suburban voters of both of you know,
both of of all races, but but you know, particularly
(07:17):
these white suburban, white collar UM workers who had long
voted Republican finding more cultural affinity with the Democrats. So
we've seen some of this realignments. All of these things
are sort of dependent on who the next Republican nominee
is twenty four, what kind of coalition they're able to cement,
what the economic and geopolitical conditions in the country and
(07:40):
the world are, and how you know, the two nominees
position their parties in that contest. But the size are
definitely there that this is beginning to happen um, and
so it'll be interesting to see what happens, not so
much in midterm elections, because we've seen non white voters
flocked to Republicans and greater degree in mid term elections
with Democrats trouble. But how But but it will be
(08:02):
more interesting to see if we see a continuation of
what we saw in twenty happen again in four Okay,
we just have a couple of minutes left. But one
of the thing we've talked about a lot around here
is to what extent do you think the Democratic Party
is being led by the woke energy on Twitter and
among congressional staffers, and Twitter is not America, to what
(08:26):
extent do you think they're being you know, the dog
of the Democratic Party is being wagged by the tail or?
Or does the woke left have that much haft? Well, look,
I think I think there is some validity to this.
Both parties, as polarization has increased over the past two decades,
have been led or influenced more by their base of
(08:52):
committed voters. Right. You know, we've seen in covering the
Republican Party over twenty years the influence that the Republican
base often has. These the committed conservatives often have in
in in the party, in part because in house races,
where most districts are drawn to elect one or the
other party, it's the primary that really counts. And if
(09:16):
you don't play to your primary audience, you don't get
to the general election where you're going to win easily.
And so I think that what we're seeing in the
Democratic Party now is something we have seen four years
in the Republican Party, and they are being influenced to
a huge degree by the far left flank of their party.
And I think we've seen this most notably when it
(09:39):
comes to pandemic policy coming out of the White House. No,
Joe Biden can't win in this regard, UH. In Republicans certainly,
but even but especially Independence really want to shift to
a posture of policy on the pandemic that that recognizes
or believes that the coronavirus is just not going anywhere,
(10:00):
uh for the foreseeable future, and and get us back
to a normal footing, just doing living like we did
before in the pandemic, but taking you know, precautions as
they are necessary. Left point and the Democratic base of
the Democratic Party doesn't mean Joe Biden's doing enough to
protect against the coronavirus. They want stricter mandates on vaccines,
(10:22):
more mandates on vacate scenes, stricter and more mandates on
mask wearing and and the like. And that belief on
the far left length of the party is influencing how
many Democrats in Washington at least are reacting to the pandemic,
but politically and from a policy standpoint, and it's far
(10:44):
different than what you're seeing from center left Democrats and
independence who may tend to vote Democrat. And we've seen,
you know, the Democratic governors around the country are starting
to react to the broader number of Democratic voters in
their states rather than the most committed liberals. But it
is definitely having an impact. And you're right when you
(11:04):
point out that Twitter is not real life needed on
the right or the less, and when politicians cater to Twitter,
they end up in trouble with a broader number of
voters they need to win re election. Well, and your
point about the COVID policy is a great one and
such a such a strange chapter of American history we're
all living through. I'd like to write the book Culture
and COVID if I only had the time. But um,
(11:26):
let's remember Glenn Youcan is the governor of Virginia. Not
so much because the critical race theory stuff that got
so much attention, purely because he ran on get the
kids back in school. The kids need to be in school,
and that hardcore left flank of the Democratic Party is
just have four year olds and masks and and send
everybody home the minute anybody gets COVID and uh, that
(11:48):
is just absolute electoral poison. I think to an extent
that the mainstream media does not adequately reflect. But David
Drucker of The Washington Examiner, David, I wish we could
talk all day, but I'm afraid we're up against a break.
But it's to talk to you. Good luck with the
book in Trump's Shadow, The Battle for four in the
Future of the GOP. Thanks David, thanks so much. Good
to talk
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