November 10, 2023 • 11 mins
We have been monitoring the war in Israel very closely and have been discussing how Hamas is using innocent people as human shields.
Talking to The Armstrong & Getty, Military analyst Mike Lyons breaks down what we're seeing with Hamas, Israel and Iran. He also touches on the fact that US soldiers have come under attack in Syria.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Israeli media reports three hospitals in Gaza City are currently surrounded.
The Israelis believe there are Hamas fighters inside the complexity
of this though there are still patients inside, thousands of
Palestinians still not heating those warnings by the Israelis to
head to the south. Some in the hospital simply don't
have the ability to do so.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
That's topic number one for Mike Lyons on the difficulties
of what's going on in the Middle East right now.
The Israelis have hospitals surrounded, there are Herramas fighters in
there and patients. Here's problem number two. These latest astroke
was supposed to be a message to around to tell
its proxy groups to stop attacking the US.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Fool sage.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, it seems either they didn't hear the warning or
they didn't heed it with the obvious risk that this
could escalate. Yeah, so we bombed something somewhere to let
our ind know we're serious. Remember what Kamala Harris said,
don't Yeah, don't. Well, after we hit them, punch them
in nose. They've attacked our troops four times since then,
at least four. There's a risk it'll escalate. Better anyway
(01:01):
to discuss these topics and more. Please welcome Mike Lyons.
You see Mike on CNN, respected military analyst. Mike. Always
great to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
How are you taking away, guy, It's great to be back.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Which of those you want to tackle first?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I think about hospitals, right, Gaza City's got the most
amount of hospitals per capita for the density of their population. Like,
you can't swing a dead cat and not hit a
hospital there. Now, that's you think that's on purpose. I
mean for a population that's growing and has got you know,
more children and a lot of old people. That's for
a reason. That's because when Hamas built hospitals, they make
(01:36):
military headquarters out of them.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So they call everything a hospital. That's pretty clever.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, right, And so again Israel is doing everything it
can to try to send messages about about them and
what you I think what's left now in some of
these places are some last minute martyrs because really what
they are going to they're all going to die. The
hamask guys that are there, and maybe the leadership is
now starting to infiltrate back to the South because they
realized they're losing this fight here in the town. But yeah,
(02:04):
this is this is a you know, a population that
that allows itself for Hamas to you to hide itself behind.
So I don't know what else to say. It's a
kind of warfare we haven't seen in this century as
blatant as it is. And with my problem is the
rest of the world is not on israel side, or
is not on the side of what's clearly the good
(02:26):
guys here when it comes to how this war should
be propagated.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I want to talk more about that in a little bit.
But as a retired gentleman of the United States Army,
is there any ambiguity at all in international law, US law,
any law you can think of about using human shields
and who is responsible for the death of those people?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
If it comes no, it is, and it's it's Amasa's responsibility.
But we're dealing with a group that doesn't have any
accountability to that lag. We're not going to be able
to prosecute that. We're not going to be able to,
you know, drag them in front of some World Tribune someplace,
and it's not going to have But we're not going
to get their surrender. Like all the things that we
want about war that happened in the Second World War.
You know, you drag the Japanese on the Missouri and
(03:08):
you make them surrender and those things. Those days are over.
So we're at this point where we're letting them get
away with whatever they want, and we're holding the Israeli
soldier to this incredibly high standard. Now again, no one's
murdering civilians in combat. I mean, that's clearly a war crime.
We're not Meli, we're not going in that direction. But
in the same token, what we asked the Israeli soldier
(03:29):
to do, to be a warf fire on this street
and then a peacekeeper in this in this instance, and
then all of a sudden, now you're back to being
a warf fighter. I mean the whip saw and is
just driving them crazy. It's just not a reasonable expectation
for a performance what they're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Right. Yeah, My point really didn't have anything to do
with prosecuting himoser or anything like that. It's to make
it infinitely clear to Americans who might be listening, there
is no ambiguity. If you position fighting forces intentionally among
civilians and those civilians are killed, it's not your opponent
who is guilty by any international accord.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
No, well, but there's no there's no way that we're
not going to do anything about it, though, because they're
going to still hold Israel to the higher standards.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Right that, legally speaking, you're right, but that's not going
to matter to millions of people on the streets, the
public opinion, you know, battle over this whole. That's why
I'm trying to knock some sense into their heads, which
is really really frustrating. So I'm just hot to trot
for this story. I've been wanting to ask you this
all week long. How many times can Iran attack us
before we hit them really hard? Or is this a
(04:32):
good idea that we're holding back?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, we've got this visual deterrent, right, we show another
ship shows up, we send a tweet on a submarine.
The problem is this administration does not want to get
to the point where us we have to go after
Iran for whatever reason. I think we know the reason,
because they we do the This administration deep down thinks
we can still all get along. And and and Ron
(04:57):
has control of these samalistic groups within Syria and within
within Iraq and these places, and what do we do
when they're hurting our soldiers with TBIs and one died,
and like, it's time to get them out of there.
If we're not going to protect them, it's just time
to go. We're going we're hitting logistical supply places back.
We should be going after the people, and we're not
(05:18):
going at it in any kind of proportionality. We should
be disapportional, we should be going after multiple strikes. So
I don't get it. And if again, if I was
a I'm a parent of a soldier that's in that place,
get my son or daughter out of there. It's Enough's enough.
It's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Because what I was wondering the other day was is
Secretary Austin like clenched fist, grinding his teeth going along
with this because he serves at the pleasure of the
commander in Cheaper you think he's on board.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know. I think
I'd like to think the clenched fist. I know a
lot of his classmates, I know a lot of people
in that generation. I don't get it, because again, we
want to we have to be protection of our force
has got to be the priority. But then, but then
you've got to deal with the Secretary of State who
goes on today in Indian TV and talks about too
(06:10):
many Palestinians being killed. I mean, the guy stepping on
his own program. Two days ago, we were okay about,
you know, about what Israel was doing, and now he's
not okay with it. I I just the level again
of whip song back and forth of this administration is
just be on the pale right now. I don't I
don't know what else, what else to say. And again
Israel is rolling their eyes at us because they're not stopping.
(06:31):
They're not they're not going to be influenced by any
of this.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, I'm reminded of a lot of domestic politics being
so stupid. I think they're overthinking influencing the public around
the world by you know, conceding. Yeah, the Palestinians are suffering,
and it's terrible, and it is terrible. If you have
a beating heart, it's it's awful. But yeah, I just
it feels like a feckless, indecisive foreign policy to I've
(07:00):
been wondering whether they've just decided, Look, any escalation in
the region is going to be bad for us long term,
so we got to keep this as tight as we can.
Our guys aren't getting killed. I think one contractor was
who was an American serving his country. But I think
they might be wrong. I think that's the theory. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Sure, No, they don't want to face off against the
Iranians and and talk to a bunch of retard guys
over the last couple of weeks and it's like it's time.
I mean, there's no other way around this that you know,
they're not The terrence is not working. The turrence fails
in Ukraine, to Turrens failed in Israel, and it's starting
to fail with us because we're just not willing to,
you know, you know, to pull the trigger here. And
(07:39):
every time the Secretary of State or somebody comes up
with the Israelis have to be doing more, Well, tell
me exactly what tell tell me specifically what more you
want to do, because you're not going to get them
to stop. And a pause is actually inhumane because they're
going to pause and they're going to give people some
time to move out, and then they're going to start
it all up again. So so again, this is war.
This is no that's no other content strict that we're
(08:00):
talking about. Here.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, as a guy like you who's been studying the
history of war, we're into a new era in a
whole bunch of different ways geopolitically and then communications, the
fact that we see it all live in the moment,
not couched by some you know journalists days later in
the New York Times. You watch it live and then
(08:24):
get the influence of all the Twitter followers in their bs.
And that's so crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And the administration now is putting out that they're getting
cables from foreign countries about the problem with you know,
the Arab world is upset about this, and we have
to be careful. And I want to go you go
to those diplomats to do their job job and go
convince the Arab nations that what's going on in Israel
is not Israel's fault. Like push back, like the Abraham
(08:50):
records were good. Get Saudi Arabia back in the game. Here,
nothing's going to we agree, nothing's going to happen until
you get Arab nations involved with Gaza anyway. In the
other portion, for the refugees, like I said, the Egyptians
can't build that wall back fast enough any time to
make a hole in it to let any kind of
humanity and efforts to go through it. Now there's there's
a reason for that. So again that no one has
(09:12):
any solutions other than you know, do better.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
They can do more, Mike, one final thought for a movie.
We came across a brilliant comment. I'm sorry a column
yesterday that quoted extensively from General Sherman's letter to the
people and governors of Atlanta, the city council. I believe
it was explaining why he was going to burn the
(09:36):
city and they're pleased to him not to were misplaced,
and it's summarized as I completely understand what you're saying,
and it's a terrible thing to do. I wish I
didn't have to do it. But the kindest thing I
can do for you is end this war. And that's
what we intend to do.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, and that's what Israel was trying to do, I think,
and and the scourge of terrorism exists in the world
that it's a cloud that hangs over our head. It's
been hanging over our head for twenty something years, really
since nine to eleven. And the Arab nations have got
to recognize that, you know, they could help solve the problem.
You know, we have a combating Terrorism Center at West Point.
(10:15):
We've devoted so many resources, are trying to figure out
how to do this, and it just has to get
back to plain old powers. This has to gets back to,
you know what, We're going to eliminate the scourge from
the earth. And whether it's one Hamaskay at a time,
you know, Barack Obama, let's him say, oh, we're going
to create a whole new generation of terrorists. Well guess
what if we sit there and do nothing, We're going
to do the same thing. So we've got to do something.
(10:36):
And again, I choose to fight. There's a time to
fight right now, and that's what it Israel's doing. So
so good for them.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I don't know if I've ever heard you so fired up.
Well I believe there's a war for American society going
on right now.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I do too. And again, watching this,
you know, a year from election day, watching this administration,
you know, we can't even protect our own borders. You
look at look at our own things that we're having
a problem with internally. It's just it's it's it's I
don't want this, this scourage that's happening there to hit
our shores, and let's hope it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So this sort of stuff has been your entire adult life.
Tomorrow's Veterans Day. Give us a few seconds on what
Veterans Day means to you.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, I'm just glad it's the holiday that it is now.
I mean when I first got in the military, would
come home and I'd say, hey, I'm in the I'm
in the Army, and people would say to me, I'm glad.
I don't think anybody did that anymore. So I'm just
glad that we celebrate veterans down and of other generations.
I'm not not necessarily mine, but it's just it's something
I'm trying to keep a low profile on. But God
bless the veterans that are out there.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And thank you for a service Mike clients, It's always enlightening. Mike,
thanks a million, both for your service and for spending
some time.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Thanks thanks as for me, Yep Armstrong and Getty
Israeli media reports three hospitals in Gaza City are currently surrounded.
The Israelis believe there are Hamas fighters inside the complexity
of this though there are still patients inside, thousands of
Palestinians still not heating those warnings by the Israelis to
head to the south. Some in the hospital simply don't
have the ability to do so.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
That's topic number one for Mike Lyons on the difficulties
of what's going on in the Middle East right now.
The Israelis have hospitals surrounded, there are Herramas fighters in
there and patients. Here's problem number two. These latest astroke
was supposed to be a message to around to tell
its proxy groups to stop attacking the US.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Fool sage.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, it seems either they didn't hear the warning or
they didn't heed it with the obvious risk that this
could escalate. Yeah, so we bombed something somewhere to let
our ind know we're serious. Remember what Kamala Harris said,
don't Yeah, don't. Well, after we hit them, punch them
in nose. They've attacked our troops four times since then,
at least four. There's a risk it'll escalate. Better anyway
(01:01):
to discuss these topics and more. Please welcome Mike Lyons.
You see Mike on CNN, respected military analyst. Mike. Always
great to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
How are you taking away, guy, It's great to be back.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Which of those you want to tackle first?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I think about hospitals, right, Gaza City's got the most
amount of hospitals per capita for the density of their population. Like,
you can't swing a dead cat and not hit a
hospital there. Now, that's you think that's on purpose. I
mean for a population that's growing and has got you know,
more children and a lot of old people. That's for
a reason. That's because when Hamas built hospitals, they make
(01:36):
military headquarters out of them.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So they call everything a hospital. That's pretty clever.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, right, And so again Israel is doing everything it
can to try to send messages about about them and
what you I think what's left now in some of
these places are some last minute martyrs because really what
they are going to they're all going to die. The
hamask guys that are there, and maybe the leadership is
now starting to infiltrate back to the South because they
realized they're losing this fight here in the town. But yeah,
(02:04):
this is this is a you know, a population that
that allows itself for Hamas to you to hide itself behind.
So I don't know what else to say. It's a
kind of warfare we haven't seen in this century as
blatant as it is. And with my problem is the
rest of the world is not on israel side, or
is not on the side of what's clearly the good
(02:26):
guys here when it comes to how this war should
be propagated.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I want to talk more about that in a little bit.
But as a retired gentleman of the United States Army,
is there any ambiguity at all in international law, US law,
any law you can think of about using human shields
and who is responsible for the death of those people?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
If it comes no, it is, and it's it's Amasa's responsibility.
But we're dealing with a group that doesn't have any
accountability to that lag. We're not going to be able
to prosecute that. We're not going to be able to,
you know, drag them in front of some World Tribune someplace,
and it's not going to have But we're not going
to get their surrender. Like all the things that we
want about war that happened in the Second World War.
You know, you drag the Japanese on the Missouri and
(03:08):
you make them surrender and those things. Those days are over.
So we're at this point where we're letting them get
away with whatever they want, and we're holding the Israeli
soldier to this incredibly high standard. Now again, no one's
murdering civilians in combat. I mean, that's clearly a war crime.
We're not Meli, we're not going in that direction. But
in the same token, what we asked the Israeli soldier
(03:29):
to do, to be a warf fire on this street
and then a peacekeeper in this in this instance, and
then all of a sudden, now you're back to being
a warf fighter. I mean the whip saw and is
just driving them crazy. It's just not a reasonable expectation
for a performance what they're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Right. Yeah, My point really didn't have anything to do
with prosecuting himoser or anything like that. It's to make
it infinitely clear to Americans who might be listening, there
is no ambiguity. If you position fighting forces intentionally among
civilians and those civilians are killed, it's not your opponent
who is guilty by any international accord.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
No, well, but there's no there's no way that we're
not going to do anything about it, though, because they're
going to still hold Israel to the higher standards.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Right that, legally speaking, you're right, but that's not going
to matter to millions of people on the streets, the
public opinion, you know, battle over this whole. That's why
I'm trying to knock some sense into their heads, which
is really really frustrating. So I'm just hot to trot
for this story. I've been wanting to ask you this
all week long. How many times can Iran attack us
before we hit them really hard? Or is this a
(04:32):
good idea that we're holding back?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, we've got this visual deterrent, right, we show another
ship shows up, we send a tweet on a submarine.
The problem is this administration does not want to get
to the point where us we have to go after
Iran for whatever reason. I think we know the reason,
because they we do the This administration deep down thinks
we can still all get along. And and and Ron
(04:57):
has control of these samalistic groups within Syria and within
within Iraq and these places, and what do we do
when they're hurting our soldiers with TBIs and one died,
and like, it's time to get them out of there.
If we're not going to protect them, it's just time
to go. We're going we're hitting logistical supply places back.
We should be going after the people, and we're not
(05:18):
going at it in any kind of proportionality. We should
be disapportional, we should be going after multiple strikes. So
I don't get it. And if again, if I was
a I'm a parent of a soldier that's in that place,
get my son or daughter out of there. It's Enough's enough.
It's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Because what I was wondering the other day was is
Secretary Austin like clenched fist, grinding his teeth going along
with this because he serves at the pleasure of the
commander in Cheaper you think he's on board.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know. I think
I'd like to think the clenched fist. I know a
lot of his classmates, I know a lot of people
in that generation. I don't get it, because again, we
want to we have to be protection of our force
has got to be the priority. But then, but then
you've got to deal with the Secretary of State who
goes on today in Indian TV and talks about too
(06:10):
many Palestinians being killed. I mean, the guy stepping on
his own program. Two days ago, we were okay about,
you know, about what Israel was doing, and now he's
not okay with it. I I just the level again
of whip song back and forth of this administration is
just be on the pale right now. I don't I
don't know what else, what else to say. And again
Israel is rolling their eyes at us because they're not stopping.
(06:31):
They're not they're not going to be influenced by any
of this.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, I'm reminded of a lot of domestic politics being
so stupid. I think they're overthinking influencing the public around
the world by you know, conceding. Yeah, the Palestinians are suffering,
and it's terrible, and it is terrible. If you have
a beating heart, it's it's awful. But yeah, I just
it feels like a feckless, indecisive foreign policy to I've
(07:00):
been wondering whether they've just decided, Look, any escalation in
the region is going to be bad for us long term,
so we got to keep this as tight as we can.
Our guys aren't getting killed. I think one contractor was
who was an American serving his country. But I think
they might be wrong. I think that's the theory. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Sure, No, they don't want to face off against the
Iranians and and talk to a bunch of retard guys
over the last couple of weeks and it's like it's time.
I mean, there's no other way around this that you know,
they're not The terrence is not working. The turrence fails
in Ukraine, to Turrens failed in Israel, and it's starting
to fail with us because we're just not willing to,
you know, you know, to pull the trigger here. And
(07:39):
every time the Secretary of State or somebody comes up
with the Israelis have to be doing more, Well, tell
me exactly what tell tell me specifically what more you
want to do, because you're not going to get them
to stop. And a pause is actually inhumane because they're
going to pause and they're going to give people some
time to move out, and then they're going to start
it all up again. So so again, this is war.
This is no that's no other content strict that we're
(08:00):
talking about. Here.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, as a guy like you who's been studying the
history of war, we're into a new era in a
whole bunch of different ways geopolitically and then communications, the
fact that we see it all live in the moment,
not couched by some you know journalists days later in
the New York Times. You watch it live and then
(08:24):
get the influence of all the Twitter followers in their bs.
And that's so crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And the administration now is putting out that they're getting
cables from foreign countries about the problem with you know,
the Arab world is upset about this, and we have
to be careful. And I want to go you go
to those diplomats to do their job job and go
convince the Arab nations that what's going on in Israel
is not Israel's fault. Like push back, like the Abraham
(08:50):
records were good. Get Saudi Arabia back in the game. Here,
nothing's going to we agree, nothing's going to happen until
you get Arab nations involved with Gaza anyway. In the
other portion, for the refugees, like I said, the Egyptians
can't build that wall back fast enough any time to
make a hole in it to let any kind of
humanity and efforts to go through it. Now there's there's
a reason for that. So again that no one has
(09:12):
any solutions other than you know, do better.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
They can do more, Mike, one final thought for a movie.
We came across a brilliant comment. I'm sorry a column
yesterday that quoted extensively from General Sherman's letter to the
people and governors of Atlanta, the city council. I believe
it was explaining why he was going to burn the
(09:36):
city and they're pleased to him not to were misplaced,
and it's summarized as I completely understand what you're saying,
and it's a terrible thing to do. I wish I
didn't have to do it. But the kindest thing I
can do for you is end this war. And that's
what we intend to do.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, and that's what Israel was trying to do, I think,
and and the scourge of terrorism exists in the world
that it's a cloud that hangs over our head. It's
been hanging over our head for twenty something years, really
since nine to eleven. And the Arab nations have got
to recognize that, you know, they could help solve the problem.
You know, we have a combating Terrorism Center at West Point.
(10:15):
We've devoted so many resources, are trying to figure out
how to do this, and it just has to get
back to plain old powers. This has to gets back to,
you know what, We're going to eliminate the scourge from
the earth. And whether it's one Hamaskay at a time,
you know, Barack Obama, let's him say, oh, we're going
to create a whole new generation of terrorists. Well guess
what if we sit there and do nothing, We're going
to do the same thing. So we've got to do something.
(10:36):
And again, I choose to fight. There's a time to
fight right now, and that's what it Israel's doing. So
so good for them.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I don't know if I've ever heard you so fired up.
Well I believe there's a war for American society going
on right now.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I do too. And again, watching this,
you know, a year from election day, watching this administration,
you know, we can't even protect our own borders. You
look at look at our own things that we're having
a problem with internally. It's just it's it's it's I
don't want this, this scourage that's happening there to hit
our shores, and let's hope it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So this sort of stuff has been your entire adult life.
Tomorrow's Veterans Day. Give us a few seconds on what
Veterans Day means to you.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, I'm just glad it's the holiday that it is now.
I mean when I first got in the military, would
come home and I'd say, hey, I'm in the I'm
in the Army, and people would say to me, I'm glad.
I don't think anybody did that anymore. So I'm just
glad that we celebrate veterans down and of other generations.
I'm not not necessarily mine, but it's just it's something
I'm trying to keep a low profile on. But God
bless the veterans that are out there.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And thank you for a service Mike clients, It's always enlightening. Mike,
thanks a million, both for your service and for spending
some time.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Thanks thanks as for me, Yep Armstrong and Getty
Hosts And Creators
Joe Getty
Jack Armstrong
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.