September 15, 2025 • 36 mins
Hour 4 of A&G features...
- Cults & how people get sucked in
- How Charlie Kirk's killer was caught
- Hate on the internet
- Final Thoughts!
Stupid Should Hurt: https://www.armstrongandgetty.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio the George
Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong is Joe Katty.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Strong and Katty and he Armstrong and Getty. Fired
for my job. I was aspired for my job.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I was aspired for my job. I was as fired
from my job.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I was just.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Fired from a job. I have nothing but this, nothing
but this hobsite, nothing any more.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Nothing have nothing any more, nothing anymore, nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Nothing other than that. How's it going, Jim, sir? This
is a Wendy's always amusing.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
That is a transgendery looking guy who lost his job
for posting online his glee over Charlie Cook being murdered
in cold blood. More on that multifaceted discussion, including the
whole transgender thing.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We gottaing up. We got a text somebody who said,
my man and I went to a viagraa Boys concert
last night. They're a Swedish punk band. I don't know
their work, do you? I do not, Katie. I love
they are awesome. I love them.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
I saw them when they were a small band and
now they've just blown up. They're fantastic. Actually, we've played
them before on here. That song that goes sports.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, Oh, you're right, the VIAGRAA boys have grown, have
they anyway? Ah, as musicians tend to be, you know how.
This would be about an hour into the concert. The
lead singer started with we Live in Strange Times. I
looked at my guy and I said, let's go. I
knew it was coming. The crowd was cheering. We were
(02:02):
walking out as he continued to have we live in
Strange times when our world leaders mourn the death of
a fascist. Oh, there you go, you're gooining one of
my Yeah. I mean, I go to concerts knowing that's
gonna happen. It's just whatever.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
So on a similar topic, I found this interesting is
a piece by James Lindsay about what excuse me why
cult beliefs don't stop when they're proved wrong? And you know,
this applies to all sorts of different cults or cultish
(02:40):
political you know, subcultures and that sort of thing. But
he's he starts, he's talking about in the nineteen fifties,
there was this UFO cult called the Seekers, and they
believed there was an impending catastrophe that would strike the world.
On December twenty first, nineteen fifty four on that there
would be a gigantic global flood right out of the
(03:02):
Book of Genesis. As a cult, they engaged in lots
of rituals and awareness raising activities about the pending disaster.
They believed it was aliens ufo cult. The aliens would
save the faithful seekers from the coming disaster. In particular,
the aliens would rescue the faithful seekers for trying to
(03:24):
warn people about the coming catastrophe.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So they are pretty public about this.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
And the scientists by the name of Leon Festinger wanted
to understand how cult beliefs operated, how they worked, and
so he infiltrated the cult, posing as a faithful seeker,
and he observed it through the lead up to the
Faithful Day. Additionally, he was positioned to observe and interview subjects.
(03:51):
When it turned out that that date nothing of the
sort had happened, and that day came and went and
nothing happened.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It didn't The world was not drowned by a flood
in nineteen fifty four. So this failed prediction marked a
crisis of faith for the seekers. So what they do?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Did they abandon their beliefs? No, they did not abandon
their beliefs. Except in a few individual cases who were like, ah, right,
you had me going there for a minute, but no flood,
no dice.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I am out. But most of this cult sucked.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
The vast majority of seekers experienced some form of emotional
crisis and emerged from it with a powerfully increased commitment
to the seekers beliefs. Infestinger the scientists was really intrigued.
Most of the seekers emerged firm and a new belief.
They believed that their faith and devotion had saved humanity
because the aliens saw it and intervened to prevent the flood,
(04:52):
thus saving not just the seekers, but also humanity at large.
Yay seekers. Now, anybody who's ever watched, for instance, the
QAnon phenomenon from a safe distance is familiar with this phenomenon.
Trump is going to come in and save us, all
(05:13):
all right, Trump comes in and he, you know, says
there's really no dirt and Epstein files worth saying blah
blah blah, and you well know, see what happened was
they got to him and they blah blah blah. You
just adapt the beliefs. As Lindsay writes, it's obviously nonsense
getting back to the seekers, But it served as the
foundation for the psychology not just around cults, but around
(05:35):
conspiracy theories. What Festing are observed is that under certain conditions,
people do not abandon their conspiracy theories or cult beliefs
when prevented with solid, irrefutable evidence those beliefs are wrong. Instead,
they modify and repackage their beliefs in even more tenuous
ways so they can keep believing them. With the Seekers,
the aliens magically intervened blah blah blah. Who could check
(05:57):
this claim, Well, nobody, And that's the point.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He explained.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
What happened with the seekers is formulating what's called the
theory to theory of cognitive dissonance, which a lot of
people have heard of but name may not fully understand.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
This is the guy who came up with this.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
When our minds are occupied with two contradictory but strong
beliefs cult doctrine versus hard evidence, for INSTANCECE, a state
of great psychological discomfort and unrest called cognitive dissonance arises, and.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You have two choices.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Essentially, one is to double down on the cult belief
for conspiracy theory, which is called rationalization, and the other
is to accept the hard facts of reality and repent
of your error, which is also psychologically painful, and long
story short and over again, the majority of people go
with the rationalization, and one of the key aspects of
(06:48):
that is that the new explanation is non falsifiable.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
But it's just less painful. Is that just the main
reason that we do it. It's not painful to slightly
alter my mind belief and stick with it as opposed
to I was wrong this whole time, kind of embarrassed.
That's painful.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
That's interesting, right, right, And actually Lindsay does a great
job of explaining that. The question here is why that
commitment is so deep that you stick with the group
and go with an unfalsifiable claim. I mean, for instance,
you can't verify or deny that the aliens appreciated the seekers'
(07:27):
efforts and saved the world. How are you going to
stress test that assertion? That's the point.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Some of you atheists in the audience are applying this
to religion.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Feel free however you want, and we can. I'll still
be friends and talk about it. But so Lindsey, here's
where he applies it more to the modern day. Being
socially locked into a cult is usually its primary holdover people,
particularly at first socially locked in.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Eventually the social lock.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Will creep into one's own sense of identity through the
processes of psychosocial value on the self, meaning how do
I fit in as a valued member of the community?
I esteem who am I in relation to this community?
And just who am I in general? And at the
point when the cult defines your identity and your sense
of virtue and self worth, you're deep in and it's
(08:16):
hard to escape. This gets worse, he writes, in ideological, political,
and religious cult circumstances, especially rigid and militant ones like communism, fascism,
the woke left the woke right. Part of this is
psychosocial with a particularly vicious twist. You will be heavily
punished both socially and psychologically for any defection, both while
(08:39):
inside the cult and while attempting to leave it, and
you know it. In fact, you've probably participated in that
punishment rituals against others by the point of being fully
discussed in such a cult. So, in other words, not
only do you have to abandon your sense of self,
but all of your friends are going to beat the
crap out of you. First saying, for instance, look, maybe
(09:01):
Charlie Kirk was a bit of a jerk, but political
violence is sickening.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
They'll turn on you. So one of the things it's
interesting to me about that is you often assume there's
some sort of profit motive in somebody pushing you crap,
but this person or group that they just needed something
to believe in.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
That happens a lot, I guess with cults. Yeah, you
have a purpose for your life. You feel like you're
doing something important. Yeah, two more points. Framework to explain
the world, which is unexplainable, right right, frequently, Yeah, Lindsay writes,
because the conditions of an ideological totalitizing totalizing cult can
(09:49):
be so vicious to defectors. Rationalization is much easier road
in case of doubt or in countering contradictory evidence, and
most don't take it. Millions of people in communism, property
was destroyed, everything fell apart in a horrible war. The
last time we attempted a mass movement based on your
new world changing beliefs, mister Mumdannie, that's because the people
(10:12):
back then did it wrong and didn't believe in it
sincerely enough. Obviously, of course, this belief cannot be falsified.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You can't prove it's wrong. And then where's the part
I really wanted? The Governor of New York endorsed mum Danmi. Yeah,
it did some big deal, unbelievable. All right, this is
long I'm sniping at. I made a cult. I need
to warm embrace of a cult. That might be just
the way to finish out my life. You got any
help me out with the search a little bit. It's
(10:40):
like a chat GPT search matter what aspects of the cult.
We're not going to go communism or something like it.
Maybe flat earth something something, something, not that big a deal,
not gonna harm anybody, just something to believe. Yeah. Oh,
and he points out where the heck is that.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
When being in the cult or being convinced of its
truth causes you to do terrible things, that makes your
need to rationalize even stronger. Of course, for instance, if
(11:21):
you got convinced that a teenage girl who just fears
puberty and sex is actually transgender and should get their
body mutilated and they should be fed powerful hormones, and
you approved that for your child.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's the most extreme example I can think of, because
it'd be hard to back down from that one. Am
I just embarrassing? Oh yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Imagine how difficult it is to swallow that truth and
say I was wrong and I did these things and
I have caused this.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Dad would be tough. It takes enormous emotional strength. About tupperware?
Is that a cult? Cultish? Certainly? I don't think it
exists anymore. Does That's right? They were not a business.
But I mean, if the vast majority of people who
thought the space aliens were going to save us from
the flood couldn't deal with you know what, I got
(12:19):
defrauded here, they couldn't even like blame other people for
duping them. The vast majority stuck with it and invented
a new rationalization. Imagine if they had like sacrificed a
child to that belief. How hard is it to say
I was wrong? Right?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
And that's one of the great challenges sanity has up
against with some of these up against some of these,
you know, neo Marxist, extremist, radical theory beliefs, people have
done terrible, terrible harm.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Speaking of the whole trans thing, does it play an
important role and the death nation of Charlie Kirk or
is it just kind of coincidentally tangentially related or is
it like the thing We got more on that coming up.
Stay here.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
I's already saying the suspect turned himself in after his
father recognized him in these surveyllance images and urged his
son to come forward. Law enforcement sources say the suspect
initially said no, but later changed his mind.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Man, So those same pictures that we saw when they
came out last week, Dad saw those and saw, holy crap,
that's my son.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah, and his friends online were like, dude, and he
was joking, my doppelganger did it.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So it was obvious everyone but Dad knew it was him.
And it's a conservative family, as a lot of families
are in Utah. Some of my guess is Dad knew
his son was off the rails. Yeah, politically, so saw
the picture, knew had been worried about his son, guaranteed
and his politics for a while. That's rough, by the way,
(13:59):
and when anybody bring this up, maybe this is not
worth even mentioning. But the whole we got him and
the FBI with their dragnet and everything. Dad recognized the
sun turned him in. I mean, that doesn't mean you're
not good FBI, But you didn't go out and catch
a guy Iden somewhere he turned himself in. I just
don't quite understand that narrative. But anyway, there's more to
(14:27):
the story you've probably heard.
Speaker 7 (14:29):
First of all, as the weekend began, they executed a
search warrant on the family.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Home in Washington County, Utah.
Speaker 7 (14:34):
It's about three or four hours from the side of
the shooting. The governor, though, says multiple people are talking here,
including the roommate of the suspect, who he describes as
incredibly cooperative. The roommate, he says, had no idea this
was happening, And he also says the roommate may have
been in a romantic relationship with Tyler Robinson, may have
been gender transitioning, But the governor says, there's no edication
(14:56):
or no idea yet that's at all relevant to this case.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That it might not be relevant at all. We don't
know yet. But is it a coincidence, just like the
craziest coincidence ever, that he's in a romantic relationship with
somebody who's doing the whole transgender thing. And then the
moment a question is asked about transgender to Charlie Kirky
(15:21):
gets a bullet in the neck. Seems like a heck
of a coincidence. Well, it's a crazy, crazy thing to
do what he did the murder. So could he have
gone about it in a crazy, crazy way waiting for
the question that he found particularly objectionable, or knowing it
(15:41):
was practically inevitable that that would come up at a
Charlie kirk event and waiting for that moment. Again, that's crazy. Well,
but it would be crazy because that's not going to
make any difference in terms of what you're trying to accomplish.
It's going to make it more likely you get caught
(16:03):
if before you accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, Right,
if you wait until the right question.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Although it happened to happen very early in the pros
in the first question. Yeah, but somebody that sucked into
an online ideological cult, Yeah, they might do something that
strange and difficult to explain.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I suppose do you think the transgender thing it plays
a role in this at all? I do?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I do, Yeah, especially judging by the FBI's investigations. Some
other like transgender up with transgender social media accounts that
were all cheering this guy.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Or knew him, or they were online.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Together, and Charlie was well known as rejecting radical gender theory.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So yeah, I think it absolutely might play a role
and the reason for killing the guy, right, yeah, well,
and it might have affected the timing to I don't know.
And then you gotta wonder if it is if he
has connected to any other group of people like minded
that had a role in this, right, which would be who?
(17:12):
That'd be a big story if that turns out to
be true. We'll be following it Armstrong and Getty row.
Speaker 8 (17:19):
Time leading up to this moment, as extreme gardener Alex
Bavish from Fort Wayne, Indiana goes for the record for
the world's tallest sunflower. Clover stands nearly thirty six feet tall.
Over the course of three months, Clover grew ten inches
a day. As clover reaches up for the sun. Alex
is mindful of his own roots. Born and raised in Ukraine.
Speaker 7 (17:41):
Sunflower is a national flower of Ukraine, so it's special
to me.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
There you go, that's nice, So I needed that's what
we needed today story about the world's tallest sunflower named Clover.
It has a name. It's a plant with a name,
and the name is the name of a different plant.
World's tallest sunflower. Huh, there you go, world's tallest shaka weed.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
I call it corn. The hell thirty six feet is
pretty tall. That's a tall sunflower. All in tribute to
the poor people of Ukraine. Love it, confused, but love it.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Now back to how the Great Civil War and death exactly?
We mentioned earlier in the show that the FBI is
investigating seven. I think it was social media accounts that
appeared to.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Predict what was going to happen to poor Charlie Kirk,
and when at least one of those was directly tied
to or followed Charlie Kirk's allegedly trans I'm sorry, the
murderers allegedly trans romantic interest and roommate, and there seems
(18:54):
to be a circle of young radicals who really are
into the trans thing that wanted Charlie Kirk dead and
seem to know when it was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Who knows.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
There's a lot of crap on the internet, stop clock
is right twice a day, etc.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So that's what we were referring to last segment.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I thought this was great, as always from Nelly Bowles
of the Free Press talking about the aftermath and discussions online.
The rest of it a couple of things she writes,
And then came the New York Times obituary, a classic.
The headline, Charlie Kirk, right wing provocateur and close ally
of Trump, dies at thirty one. Right wing provocateur a
person trying to provoke if you think about it as
(19:33):
though there's no belief system behind it, just a provocateur
for the sake of it. In the mainstream media worldview,
there are two kinds of people. Those fighting for left
wing causes who are described as people of conviction, activists
for justice, deep believers inequality, and then there are those
fighting for right wing causes who are described as provocateurs, cynics,
(19:55):
racists and shills arch conservatives. They eventually changed the headline.
Here's the New York Times obituary quote. He was so
vocal in his willingness to spread unsupported claims and outright lies.
He said that the drug hydroxychloroquin was one hundred percent
effective in treating the virus, which it is not that
Twitter temporarily banned him in early March twenty twenty, but
(20:17):
that move only added to his notoriety and seemed to
support his claim that he was being muzzled by a
liberal elite. Nelly writes, fascinating a man is murdered in
public in the middle of the day while practicing his
First Amendment rights, and the paper of record decides that
this must be the perfect moment to do some fact
checking about hydro oxy chloroquin.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
That's an excellent point. What role does that play in
the story? Whatsoever?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
What you need to know from this?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
If your politics are that of a standard normy conservative man,
your New York Times obituary will find the various things
you said that weren't exactly right. He got into hydroxy
chloroquin in twenty twenty. Can you believe that? And they'll
paint them in the sky. My politics, he writes, are
lib centrist, and these people would certainly celebrate my death,
highlight my many errors and refer to my defense of
(21:06):
the sat test is my repeated advocacy for a return
to slavery or something. What I'm saying is, just try
to stay alive, because when you die, a New York
Times reporter gets to juice your corpse for likes. On
Blue Sky MSNBC will invite on talking heads to suggest
that the shooter could have been your mom who forgot
to put the safety on.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
We simply don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Then she talks about clicking on the blue sky to
see what was happening. I was served hundreds of posts
with people celebrating. I don't follow anyone, so this is
just what the standard blue sky algorithm wanted to show me.
Also dropping this right here, thirty four percent of college
students think political violence is acceptable, according to a Nurse
(21:50):
New survey. On Facebook, the first thing I saw was
an old journalist Buddy mocking Charlie and cheering his death.
We were talking early early in the show about how
wide spread that sort of thing is and how it's
difficult to know because the volume and algorithms of the Internet.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Right, Can we do a snap pole on it to
try to figure that out. Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know. It's so sick. I know that Mark Alprin
tweeted over the weekend. For the first day, I refused
to believe that anyone who was actually going on social
media to celebrate Charlie's murder. Then I realized there was,
(22:32):
in fact some of it but I assumed it was
a very small amount. Now I see how naive I was.
What is wrong with someone who would do that? Then
he tweeted, CNN and MSNBC are not taking the remarks
of Erica Kirk live. She spoke for the first time
and gave a speech. MSNBC and CNN did not carry it.
Takes a lot to surprise me. Mark Alpern wrote, this
(22:54):
is shocking the BBC is taking it live. Yeah, I
guess internally they thought they get too much blowback on
MSNBC if they let her speak.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Or the thing that surprises me over and over again,
maybe I'm a dope. Is that a lot of people
who are in a media bubble, social media bubble, they
believe the worst of what's being said.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
They actually think it's true. They've never seen an alternative
point of view, and so maybe the person in charge
of it at NBC actually believed. I mean, I mentioned
a friend told me from the pulpit. Their minister in
church Sunday said, now, Charlie Kirk spread division and hate.
(23:48):
That was his career, but his murder is wrong and
we pray for his family. So they just repeated as
fact that that's what dude did, Man, i'd a got
up on a church and walked down. Yes, this friend
is not going to return. I believe that's unbelievable. What
a thing to say. Yeah, and again, even if we're true,
(24:09):
you don't want them to get shot. That's not the
way we do things well. And two spreads division in politics.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
What Yeah, Well, it's just like Nelly Bowles is saying
about The New York Times. If you energetically advocate for
your point of view from the left, you're an energetic advocate.
If I then stand up and say, look, I think
you're wrong, and here's why I'm spreading division.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So Mark alpernanded on his newsletter yesterday this morning, with
significant time to reflect for the first time since the murder,
I am now deeply, deeply worried about the country. We're
going to go one of two directions. It's not going
to stay neutral. I don't think this is a pretty
big event. It's either going to bring it more people
(25:03):
into the tent of We need to calm down. We
need to stop vilifying the other side. We need to
step stop calling people Hitler are saying this is going
to be the last election. If we lose blah blah blah,
or both sides are going to double down on the
we have to fight as dirty as they fight because
they fight dirty and we've been too nice. We got
to fight dirty. Now both sides are going to do that,
(25:26):
and it's going to get worse and more ugly, right,
and we're gonna end up with worse people in politics
because normal people won't get into politics because it's too dangerous,
which obviously it's that, it's beyond the heckler's veto, it's
the assassin's veto. Not good.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Yeah, I think this is going to accelerate that trend
of good people not wanting to get into politics, which
was already way down the road.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I mean, you had.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
And I won't bother name checking them because everybody's so
fired up and divided these days. But some of the
best people in Congress in the Senate have checked out,
they've left, they've resigned or not run for reelection because
they're like, this is ugly and stupid. We don't accomplish anything.
It's all just fundraising and hate. And if you add
(26:20):
to that a little and now it's really dangerous. What
sort of people are going to run for office.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Or our journalism. So I was listening to the Dispatch
podcast and Mega mccardal, who writes for the Washington Post,
was on there. I don't know what you'd call her politics.
She's a conservative, but uh, I don't know a lot
of you people would disagree with her. I think she's brilliant.
But any who, she said, Oh, she gets death threats
all the time. She gets people send her pictures of
her house with a bullseye over it. She many as
(26:47):
an opinion writer for the Washington Post. Yikes, she said,
you just have to get used to it. I could
not get used to that. I mean, we get more
hate and veiled and sometimes not veiled threats ourselves that
I don't like it. But a picture of my house
with a bull's eye over it would be oh.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, you know. My first thought is I'd be
sorely tempted to open up a taco stand. But there
is a definitely a bit of I'm not going to
back down to you. Depends on your life, your circumstances.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Right well, and almost always if somebody is not going
to do anything, almost always, yeah, like very close to always,
it's somebody it's not going to do anything. It somehow
makes them feel powerful or cool or whatever it is. Yeah,
they just want to cause pain or discomfort. Because we've
(27:48):
dealt with this a lot from threats, and we immediately
turn them over to police friends, and then they get
in contact with you. If you want to send threats,
you're going to get contacted by the police, and they
almost always, well always in our case, thank god. Oh,
I didn't mean that. I was just you know, I
was pissed off from blah blah blah. Yeah, jeez, have
(28:09):
some restraint, eh, I know.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
I know part of it obviously, and this is obvious,
and it's been said many times. The very culture of
online communication and anonymity and being behind the screen and
the rest of it is you get further and further
down the really letting your id run wild road because
over and over again, there are no repercussions.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well, didn't you deal with that a lot over the weekend, Katie,
And I don't know if we want to get into
that or not, because we don't want to egg that on.
But you had a lot of hate coming your way
for something you said, I don't.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Know what, but oh yeah, no, and it was merely
correcting someone who posted misinformation and then the next thing
I know, I was a bigot, I was a racist.
I should go f myself, I should go kill myself.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
You name it.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
Yeah, from people that I know and people that I've
never seen before in my life.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's not going to go away. I
don't see that ever changing. So are we just gonna
get thicker skin to it? Like everybody? And then I
don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah, get offline. I don't know. Well, man,
I've come individually, sure, but I mean as a as
(29:20):
a culture, Oh, we're doomed as a culture. I was
just hoping that the next generation we're old, this is
all new to us. You know, we didn't grow up
this way. But I'm up in the next generation that's
lived this way their whole lives are going to figure
out a way to adapt to it. Yeah. I have
told the story many times that it was my son
who first said to me, Dad, haters are gonna hate,
(29:40):
don't worry about it. And I thought, Oh, that's a
bit of wisdom there. It reminds me of the road
rage thing, where you know, at some point in my
life I realized, oh that person has a lot of
anger and they're looking for a target. And if we
all learn, all right.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
That person who's posts something just horrible online, that's entirely
about them. It's not about me at all. It's a pathetic,
sad and angry person. I hope they get help.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, well, yeah, that works for a very vast majority
of people. The haters gonna hate. There's a certain chunk
who they're hatere is gonna kill, hater's gonna attack, hater's
gonna blow up.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Well, my final note on this, and we are doomed,
is that, uh, you can't look back to any prior
spasm of violence.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Or you know, the early seventies or whatever. No, I
was just about to say that, yeah, because.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
The mechanism for exchanging ideas has changed so completely.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Right, Yeah, we had like a bombing a week through
the seventies. Do you realize that across the country. But yeah,
they didn't have social media. Yeah, dang it, one boy.
I was going to say, I was going to pick
a side, but I'm not sure it makes any difference.
(31:08):
You have some sort of right wing I'm using my
finger quotes because their politics could be all over the place,
and they could be crazy kill somebody on the left,
high profile. Roughly, now we got a big problem. But
same as the other side. You get another conservative killed
by a left wing loon. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Yeah, there's going to be no calling off many many dogs.
My final self serving note on this, he says, having
already issued his final note. Came across this. When George
Floyd died, they burned down cities. When Charlie Kirk died,
we pray and host vigils. We are not the same.
There's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
There is a lot of truth to that. We will
finish strong.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Next forty five seconds, that's what you got to start
the show. I am going to donate one hundred thousand
dollars to the Boys and Girls Cla of America. So
if you stay forty five seconds, it stays.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
At one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Every second you go over forty five seconds, we will
adduct one thousand dollars away from the Boys and Girls Club.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I know, I know, I can't change it.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
This is a game I'm made up and these are
the rules.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So that's a good idea. From the Emmy's Last Night Bargatzi,
the comedians have a charity for a good cause, and
if you go over the speech time ducks money. I
can't change it. That's a pretty funny idea. Huh. So
(32:43):
we got some texts earlier. If you didn't hear my
story about giving donuts to my neighbors. That was an
hour two on the podcast Armstrong You Getty on demand.
I found myself with a whole bunch of donuts because
the donut chop gave us extras when we went there
closing time, and they're sitting around the house and I
was worried about eating them. I got a brand new neighbor,
(33:05):
and I thought, I'm gonna take this over to the neighbors.
I'm gonna say, hey, here's a little neighborhood welcome gift.
I felt bad about it, though, as I walked away
and heard him say to his wife, Oh god, our
extra neighbor's really a nice guy. Look he brought donuts
when all I was doing was trying to get rid
of the donuts.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
In my house.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Oh no, dear, he thought it would be nice. Oh hey,
wait a minute, so did you weren't completely not thinking
anything nice? It was there. It's like Michael said, I
could say, hey, I got an extra pork chop you
want to, But so you have to be a long
(33:43):
time listener to get this. When we got this text, Jack,
give your neighbor your used tennis balls. The story, I
don't Oh my god, I'll have to tell that again
on the podcast then if you don't remember it, I'm.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Strong against bound Strong, get ready, Katie Green and.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Strong your host for final thoughts, Joe Getty.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Hey, let's get a final thought from everybody on the
crew to wrap things up for the day. There he
is in the control room, Michaelangelo, pressing the buttons. Michael,
what's your final thought?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
You kind of still mind?
Speaker 9 (34:22):
Jack, I was going to suggest giving all your leftovers
to your next door neighbors. The other thing, too, is Joe,
I'm really looking forward to this taco Stan. You've mentioned
it several times that you're going to open one of
these things, So I'm hungry for daktaves.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yeah, Buddy in mine and I have been discussing this
very long time. Joe and Brian's California tacos. Yeah, we're
going to have the chicken, the fish, the beef.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Sounds like, oh yeah, yeah, tacos in short, Katie Green
are esteemed and used woman. As a final thought, Katie.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Thought, on the doughnuts, Jack, you could have thrown them away,
and there are starving children all over the world, so
you did the right thing.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
And did they eat some donuts? Or I've never understood
that rational Jack? Final thought for us?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Can I do a quick version of the tennis ball story?
I was playing tennis with my son at the country
club place where we are. I was dressed particularly poorly
that day. A couple of guys who were playing tennis
gave me their used tennis balls. I said, I thought
you and your son could use.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
The pouring down trodden are attempting to learn this honored, time,
honored game.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Isn't that sweet? Here have my fuzzy balls. Oh, Armstrong
and Geddy wrapic up another grueling four hour workday. So
many people, thanks so little time.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Good Armstrong andngeddy dot com for the hot links for
the swag for Katie's corner. Drops an oat mail bag
at Armstrong Engeddy dot com. You have an opinion you
want to share it, be happy to read it.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Look at that poor down fraud man probably gets to
see his son once a week from the home eating.
Let's give him our use tennis balls. See tomorrow, God
bless America. I'm strong, and there have been so many
magnificent moments.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
On today's arms Strong and Getty shown, but perhaps none
finer than this.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I can't believe you still want a pony so bad.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
I really do think a beautiful little pony I can
call my own, and you.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Can't.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
You can't just have a point. Let's not let's not
give up over a small obstacles, but by Armstrong and
Getty
Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio the George
Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong is Joe Katty.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Strong and Katty and he Armstrong and Getty. Fired
for my job. I was aspired for my job.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I was aspired for my job. I was as fired
from my job.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I was just.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Fired from a job. I have nothing but this, nothing
but this hobsite, nothing any more.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Nothing have nothing any more, nothing anymore, nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Nothing other than that. How's it going, Jim, sir? This
is a Wendy's always amusing.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
That is a transgendery looking guy who lost his job
for posting online his glee over Charlie Cook being murdered
in cold blood. More on that multifaceted discussion, including the
whole transgender thing.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We gottaing up. We got a text somebody who said,
my man and I went to a viagraa Boys concert
last night. They're a Swedish punk band. I don't know
their work, do you? I do not, Katie. I love
they are awesome. I love them.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
I saw them when they were a small band and
now they've just blown up. They're fantastic. Actually, we've played
them before on here. That song that goes sports.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, Oh, you're right, the VIAGRAA boys have grown, have
they anyway? Ah, as musicians tend to be, you know how.
This would be about an hour into the concert. The
lead singer started with we Live in Strange Times. I
looked at my guy and I said, let's go. I
knew it was coming. The crowd was cheering. We were
(02:02):
walking out as he continued to have we live in
Strange times when our world leaders mourn the death of
a fascist. Oh, there you go, you're gooining one of
my Yeah. I mean, I go to concerts knowing that's
gonna happen. It's just whatever.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
So on a similar topic, I found this interesting is
a piece by James Lindsay about what excuse me why
cult beliefs don't stop when they're proved wrong? And you know,
this applies to all sorts of different cults or cultish
(02:40):
political you know, subcultures and that sort of thing. But
he's he starts, he's talking about in the nineteen fifties,
there was this UFO cult called the Seekers, and they
believed there was an impending catastrophe that would strike the world.
On December twenty first, nineteen fifty four on that there
would be a gigantic global flood right out of the
(03:02):
Book of Genesis. As a cult, they engaged in lots
of rituals and awareness raising activities about the pending disaster.
They believed it was aliens ufo cult. The aliens would
save the faithful seekers from the coming disaster. In particular,
the aliens would rescue the faithful seekers for trying to
(03:24):
warn people about the coming catastrophe.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So they are pretty public about this.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
And the scientists by the name of Leon Festinger wanted
to understand how cult beliefs operated, how they worked, and
so he infiltrated the cult, posing as a faithful seeker,
and he observed it through the lead up to the
Faithful Day. Additionally, he was positioned to observe and interview subjects.
(03:51):
When it turned out that that date nothing of the
sort had happened, and that day came and went and
nothing happened.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It didn't The world was not drowned by a flood
in nineteen fifty four. So this failed prediction marked a
crisis of faith for the seekers. So what they do?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Did they abandon their beliefs? No, they did not abandon
their beliefs. Except in a few individual cases who were like, ah, right,
you had me going there for a minute, but no flood,
no dice.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I am out. But most of this cult sucked.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
The vast majority of seekers experienced some form of emotional
crisis and emerged from it with a powerfully increased commitment
to the seekers beliefs. Infestinger the scientists was really intrigued.
Most of the seekers emerged firm and a new belief.
They believed that their faith and devotion had saved humanity
because the aliens saw it and intervened to prevent the flood,
(04:52):
thus saving not just the seekers, but also humanity at large.
Yay seekers. Now, anybody who's ever watched, for instance, the
QAnon phenomenon from a safe distance is familiar with this phenomenon.
Trump is going to come in and save us, all
(05:13):
all right, Trump comes in and he, you know, says
there's really no dirt and Epstein files worth saying blah
blah blah, and you well know, see what happened was
they got to him and they blah blah blah. You
just adapt the beliefs. As Lindsay writes, it's obviously nonsense
getting back to the seekers, But it served as the
foundation for the psychology not just around cults, but around
(05:35):
conspiracy theories. What Festing are observed is that under certain conditions,
people do not abandon their conspiracy theories or cult beliefs
when prevented with solid, irrefutable evidence those beliefs are wrong. Instead,
they modify and repackage their beliefs in even more tenuous
ways so they can keep believing them. With the Seekers,
the aliens magically intervened blah blah blah. Who could check
(05:57):
this claim, Well, nobody, And that's the point.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He explained.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
What happened with the seekers is formulating what's called the
theory to theory of cognitive dissonance, which a lot of
people have heard of but name may not fully understand.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
This is the guy who came up with this.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
When our minds are occupied with two contradictory but strong
beliefs cult doctrine versus hard evidence, for INSTANCECE, a state
of great psychological discomfort and unrest called cognitive dissonance arises, and.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You have two choices.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Essentially, one is to double down on the cult belief
for conspiracy theory, which is called rationalization, and the other
is to accept the hard facts of reality and repent
of your error, which is also psychologically painful, and long
story short and over again, the majority of people go
with the rationalization, and one of the key aspects of
(06:48):
that is that the new explanation is non falsifiable.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
But it's just less painful. Is that just the main
reason that we do it. It's not painful to slightly
alter my mind belief and stick with it as opposed
to I was wrong this whole time, kind of embarrassed.
That's painful.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
That's interesting, right, right, And actually Lindsay does a great
job of explaining that. The question here is why that
commitment is so deep that you stick with the group
and go with an unfalsifiable claim. I mean, for instance,
you can't verify or deny that the aliens appreciated the seekers'
(07:27):
efforts and saved the world. How are you going to
stress test that assertion? That's the point.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Some of you atheists in the audience are applying this
to religion.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Feel free however you want, and we can. I'll still
be friends and talk about it. But so Lindsey, here's
where he applies it more to the modern day. Being
socially locked into a cult is usually its primary holdover people,
particularly at first socially locked in.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Eventually the social lock.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Will creep into one's own sense of identity through the
processes of psychosocial value on the self, meaning how do
I fit in as a valued member of the community?
I esteem who am I in relation to this community?
And just who am I in general? And at the
point when the cult defines your identity and your sense
of virtue and self worth, you're deep in and it's
(08:16):
hard to escape. This gets worse, he writes, in ideological, political,
and religious cult circumstances, especially rigid and militant ones like communism, fascism,
the woke left the woke right. Part of this is
psychosocial with a particularly vicious twist. You will be heavily
punished both socially and psychologically for any defection, both while
(08:39):
inside the cult and while attempting to leave it, and
you know it. In fact, you've probably participated in that
punishment rituals against others by the point of being fully
discussed in such a cult. So, in other words, not
only do you have to abandon your sense of self,
but all of your friends are going to beat the
crap out of you. First saying, for instance, look, maybe
(09:01):
Charlie Kirk was a bit of a jerk, but political
violence is sickening.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
They'll turn on you. So one of the things it's
interesting to me about that is you often assume there's
some sort of profit motive in somebody pushing you crap,
but this person or group that they just needed something
to believe in.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
That happens a lot, I guess with cults. Yeah, you
have a purpose for your life. You feel like you're
doing something important. Yeah, two more points. Framework to explain
the world, which is unexplainable, right right, frequently, Yeah, Lindsay writes,
because the conditions of an ideological totalitizing totalizing cult can
(09:49):
be so vicious to defectors. Rationalization is much easier road
in case of doubt or in countering contradictory evidence, and
most don't take it. Millions of people in communism, property
was destroyed, everything fell apart in a horrible war. The
last time we attempted a mass movement based on your
new world changing beliefs, mister Mumdannie, that's because the people
(10:12):
back then did it wrong and didn't believe in it
sincerely enough. Obviously, of course, this belief cannot be falsified.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You can't prove it's wrong. And then where's the part
I really wanted? The Governor of New York endorsed mum Danmi. Yeah,
it did some big deal, unbelievable. All right, this is
long I'm sniping at. I made a cult. I need
to warm embrace of a cult. That might be just
the way to finish out my life. You got any
help me out with the search a little bit. It's
(10:40):
like a chat GPT search matter what aspects of the cult.
We're not going to go communism or something like it.
Maybe flat earth something something, something, not that big a deal,
not gonna harm anybody, just something to believe. Yeah. Oh,
and he points out where the heck is that.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
When being in the cult or being convinced of its
truth causes you to do terrible things, that makes your
need to rationalize even stronger. Of course, for instance, if
(11:21):
you got convinced that a teenage girl who just fears
puberty and sex is actually transgender and should get their
body mutilated and they should be fed powerful hormones, and
you approved that for your child.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's the most extreme example I can think of, because
it'd be hard to back down from that one. Am
I just embarrassing? Oh yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Imagine how difficult it is to swallow that truth and
say I was wrong and I did these things and
I have caused this.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Dad would be tough. It takes enormous emotional strength. About tupperware?
Is that a cult? Cultish? Certainly? I don't think it
exists anymore. Does That's right? They were not a business.
But I mean, if the vast majority of people who
thought the space aliens were going to save us from
the flood couldn't deal with you know what, I got
(12:19):
defrauded here, they couldn't even like blame other people for
duping them. The vast majority stuck with it and invented
a new rationalization. Imagine if they had like sacrificed a
child to that belief. How hard is it to say
I was wrong? Right?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
And that's one of the great challenges sanity has up
against with some of these up against some of these,
you know, neo Marxist, extremist, radical theory beliefs, people have
done terrible, terrible harm.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Speaking of the whole trans thing, does it play an
important role and the death nation of Charlie Kirk or
is it just kind of coincidentally tangentially related or is
it like the thing We got more on that coming up.
Stay here.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
I's already saying the suspect turned himself in after his
father recognized him in these surveyllance images and urged his
son to come forward. Law enforcement sources say the suspect
initially said no, but later changed his mind.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Man, So those same pictures that we saw when they
came out last week, Dad saw those and saw, holy crap,
that's my son.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah, and his friends online were like, dude, and he
was joking, my doppelganger did it.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So it was obvious everyone but Dad knew it was him.
And it's a conservative family, as a lot of families
are in Utah. Some of my guess is Dad knew
his son was off the rails. Yeah, politically, so saw
the picture, knew had been worried about his son, guaranteed
and his politics for a while. That's rough, by the way,
(13:59):
and when anybody bring this up, maybe this is not
worth even mentioning. But the whole we got him and
the FBI with their dragnet and everything. Dad recognized the
sun turned him in. I mean, that doesn't mean you're
not good FBI, But you didn't go out and catch
a guy Iden somewhere he turned himself in. I just
don't quite understand that narrative. But anyway, there's more to
(14:27):
the story you've probably heard.
Speaker 7 (14:29):
First of all, as the weekend began, they executed a
search warrant on the family.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Home in Washington County, Utah.
Speaker 7 (14:34):
It's about three or four hours from the side of
the shooting. The governor, though, says multiple people are talking here,
including the roommate of the suspect, who he describes as
incredibly cooperative. The roommate, he says, had no idea this
was happening, And he also says the roommate may have
been in a romantic relationship with Tyler Robinson, may have
been gender transitioning, But the governor says, there's no edication
(14:56):
or no idea yet that's at all relevant to this case.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That it might not be relevant at all. We don't
know yet. But is it a coincidence, just like the
craziest coincidence ever, that he's in a romantic relationship with
somebody who's doing the whole transgender thing. And then the
moment a question is asked about transgender to Charlie Kirky
(15:21):
gets a bullet in the neck. Seems like a heck
of a coincidence. Well, it's a crazy, crazy thing to
do what he did the murder. So could he have
gone about it in a crazy, crazy way waiting for
the question that he found particularly objectionable, or knowing it
(15:41):
was practically inevitable that that would come up at a
Charlie kirk event and waiting for that moment. Again, that's crazy. Well,
but it would be crazy because that's not going to
make any difference in terms of what you're trying to accomplish.
It's going to make it more likely you get caught
(16:03):
if before you accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, Right,
if you wait until the right question.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Although it happened to happen very early in the pros
in the first question. Yeah, but somebody that sucked into
an online ideological cult, Yeah, they might do something that
strange and difficult to explain.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I suppose do you think the transgender thing it plays
a role in this at all? I do?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I do, Yeah, especially judging by the FBI's investigations. Some
other like transgender up with transgender social media accounts that
were all cheering this guy.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Or knew him, or they were online.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Together, and Charlie was well known as rejecting radical gender theory.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So yeah, I think it absolutely might play a role
and the reason for killing the guy, right, yeah, well,
and it might have affected the timing to I don't know.
And then you gotta wonder if it is if he
has connected to any other group of people like minded
that had a role in this, right, which would be who?
(17:12):
That'd be a big story if that turns out to
be true. We'll be following it Armstrong and Getty row.
Speaker 8 (17:19):
Time leading up to this moment, as extreme gardener Alex
Bavish from Fort Wayne, Indiana goes for the record for
the world's tallest sunflower. Clover stands nearly thirty six feet tall.
Over the course of three months, Clover grew ten inches
a day. As clover reaches up for the sun. Alex
is mindful of his own roots. Born and raised in Ukraine.
Speaker 7 (17:41):
Sunflower is a national flower of Ukraine, so it's special
to me.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
There you go, that's nice, So I needed that's what
we needed today story about the world's tallest sunflower named Clover.
It has a name. It's a plant with a name,
and the name is the name of a different plant.
World's tallest sunflower. Huh, there you go, world's tallest shaka weed.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
I call it corn. The hell thirty six feet is
pretty tall. That's a tall sunflower. All in tribute to
the poor people of Ukraine. Love it, confused, but love it.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Now back to how the Great Civil War and death exactly?
We mentioned earlier in the show that the FBI is
investigating seven. I think it was social media accounts that
appeared to.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Predict what was going to happen to poor Charlie Kirk,
and when at least one of those was directly tied
to or followed Charlie Kirk's allegedly trans I'm sorry, the
murderers allegedly trans romantic interest and roommate, and there seems
(18:54):
to be a circle of young radicals who really are
into the trans thing that wanted Charlie Kirk dead and
seem to know when it was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Who knows.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
There's a lot of crap on the internet, stop clock
is right twice a day, etc.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So that's what we were referring to last segment.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I thought this was great, as always from Nelly Bowles
of the Free Press talking about the aftermath and discussions online.
The rest of it a couple of things she writes,
And then came the New York Times obituary, a classic.
The headline, Charlie Kirk, right wing provocateur and close ally
of Trump, dies at thirty one. Right wing provocateur a
person trying to provoke if you think about it as
(19:33):
though there's no belief system behind it, just a provocateur
for the sake of it. In the mainstream media worldview,
there are two kinds of people. Those fighting for left
wing causes who are described as people of conviction, activists
for justice, deep believers inequality, and then there are those
fighting for right wing causes who are described as provocateurs, cynics,
(19:55):
racists and shills arch conservatives. They eventually changed the headline.
Here's the New York Times obituary quote. He was so
vocal in his willingness to spread unsupported claims and outright lies.
He said that the drug hydroxychloroquin was one hundred percent
effective in treating the virus, which it is not that
Twitter temporarily banned him in early March twenty twenty, but
(20:17):
that move only added to his notoriety and seemed to
support his claim that he was being muzzled by a
liberal elite. Nelly writes, fascinating a man is murdered in
public in the middle of the day while practicing his
First Amendment rights, and the paper of record decides that
this must be the perfect moment to do some fact
checking about hydro oxy chloroquin.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
That's an excellent point. What role does that play in
the story? Whatsoever?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
What you need to know from this?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
If your politics are that of a standard normy conservative man,
your New York Times obituary will find the various things
you said that weren't exactly right. He got into hydroxy
chloroquin in twenty twenty. Can you believe that? And they'll
paint them in the sky. My politics, he writes, are
lib centrist, and these people would certainly celebrate my death,
highlight my many errors and refer to my defense of
(21:06):
the sat test is my repeated advocacy for a return
to slavery or something. What I'm saying is, just try
to stay alive, because when you die, a New York
Times reporter gets to juice your corpse for likes. On
Blue Sky MSNBC will invite on talking heads to suggest
that the shooter could have been your mom who forgot
to put the safety on.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
We simply don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Then she talks about clicking on the blue sky to
see what was happening. I was served hundreds of posts
with people celebrating. I don't follow anyone, so this is
just what the standard blue sky algorithm wanted to show me.
Also dropping this right here, thirty four percent of college
students think political violence is acceptable, according to a Nurse
(21:50):
New survey. On Facebook, the first thing I saw was
an old journalist Buddy mocking Charlie and cheering his death.
We were talking early early in the show about how
wide spread that sort of thing is and how it's
difficult to know because the volume and algorithms of the Internet.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Right, Can we do a snap pole on it to
try to figure that out. Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know. It's so sick. I know that Mark Alprin
tweeted over the weekend. For the first day, I refused
to believe that anyone who was actually going on social
media to celebrate Charlie's murder. Then I realized there was,
(22:32):
in fact some of it but I assumed it was
a very small amount. Now I see how naive I was.
What is wrong with someone who would do that? Then
he tweeted, CNN and MSNBC are not taking the remarks
of Erica Kirk live. She spoke for the first time
and gave a speech. MSNBC and CNN did not carry it.
Takes a lot to surprise me. Mark Alpern wrote, this
(22:54):
is shocking the BBC is taking it live. Yeah, I
guess internally they thought they get too much blowback on
MSNBC if they let her speak.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Or the thing that surprises me over and over again,
maybe I'm a dope. Is that a lot of people
who are in a media bubble, social media bubble, they
believe the worst of what's being said.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
They actually think it's true. They've never seen an alternative
point of view, and so maybe the person in charge
of it at NBC actually believed. I mean, I mentioned
a friend told me from the pulpit. Their minister in
church Sunday said, now, Charlie Kirk spread division and hate.
(23:48):
That was his career, but his murder is wrong and
we pray for his family. So they just repeated as
fact that that's what dude did, Man, i'd a got
up on a church and walked down. Yes, this friend
is not going to return. I believe that's unbelievable. What
a thing to say. Yeah, and again, even if we're true,
(24:09):
you don't want them to get shot. That's not the
way we do things well. And two spreads division in politics.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
What Yeah, Well, it's just like Nelly Bowles is saying
about The New York Times. If you energetically advocate for
your point of view from the left, you're an energetic advocate.
If I then stand up and say, look, I think
you're wrong, and here's why I'm spreading division.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So Mark alpernanded on his newsletter yesterday this morning, with
significant time to reflect for the first time since the murder,
I am now deeply, deeply worried about the country. We're
going to go one of two directions. It's not going
to stay neutral. I don't think this is a pretty
big event. It's either going to bring it more people
(25:03):
into the tent of We need to calm down. We
need to stop vilifying the other side. We need to
step stop calling people Hitler are saying this is going
to be the last election. If we lose blah blah blah,
or both sides are going to double down on the
we have to fight as dirty as they fight because
they fight dirty and we've been too nice. We got
to fight dirty. Now both sides are going to do that,
(25:26):
and it's going to get worse and more ugly, right,
and we're gonna end up with worse people in politics
because normal people won't get into politics because it's too dangerous,
which obviously it's that, it's beyond the heckler's veto, it's
the assassin's veto. Not good.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Yeah, I think this is going to accelerate that trend
of good people not wanting to get into politics, which
was already way down the road.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I mean, you had.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
And I won't bother name checking them because everybody's so
fired up and divided these days. But some of the
best people in Congress in the Senate have checked out,
they've left, they've resigned or not run for reelection because
they're like, this is ugly and stupid. We don't accomplish anything.
It's all just fundraising and hate. And if you add
(26:20):
to that a little and now it's really dangerous. What
sort of people are going to run for office.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Or our journalism. So I was listening to the Dispatch
podcast and Mega mccardal, who writes for the Washington Post,
was on there. I don't know what you'd call her politics.
She's a conservative, but uh, I don't know a lot
of you people would disagree with her. I think she's brilliant.
But any who, she said, Oh, she gets death threats
all the time. She gets people send her pictures of
her house with a bullseye over it. She many as
(26:47):
an opinion writer for the Washington Post. Yikes, she said,
you just have to get used to it. I could
not get used to that. I mean, we get more
hate and veiled and sometimes not veiled threats ourselves that
I don't like it. But a picture of my house
with a bull's eye over it would be oh.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, you know. My first thought is I'd be
sorely tempted to open up a taco stand. But there
is a definitely a bit of I'm not going to
back down to you. Depends on your life, your circumstances.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Right well, and almost always if somebody is not going
to do anything, almost always, yeah, like very close to always,
it's somebody it's not going to do anything. It somehow
makes them feel powerful or cool or whatever it is. Yeah,
they just want to cause pain or discomfort. Because we've
(27:48):
dealt with this a lot from threats, and we immediately
turn them over to police friends, and then they get
in contact with you. If you want to send threats,
you're going to get contacted by the police, and they
almost always, well always in our case, thank god. Oh,
I didn't mean that. I was just you know, I
was pissed off from blah blah blah. Yeah, jeez, have
(28:09):
some restraint, eh, I know.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
I know part of it obviously, and this is obvious,
and it's been said many times. The very culture of
online communication and anonymity and being behind the screen and
the rest of it is you get further and further
down the really letting your id run wild road because
over and over again, there are no repercussions.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well, didn't you deal with that a lot over the weekend, Katie,
And I don't know if we want to get into
that or not, because we don't want to egg that on.
But you had a lot of hate coming your way
for something you said, I don't.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Know what, but oh yeah, no, and it was merely
correcting someone who posted misinformation and then the next thing
I know, I was a bigot, I was a racist.
I should go f myself, I should go kill myself.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
You name it.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
Yeah, from people that I know and people that I've
never seen before in my life.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's not going to go away. I
don't see that ever changing. So are we just gonna
get thicker skin to it? Like everybody? And then I
don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah, get offline. I don't know. Well, man,
I've come individually, sure, but I mean as a as
(29:20):
a culture, Oh, we're doomed as a culture. I was
just hoping that the next generation we're old, this is
all new to us. You know, we didn't grow up
this way. But I'm up in the next generation that's
lived this way their whole lives are going to figure
out a way to adapt to it. Yeah. I have
told the story many times that it was my son
who first said to me, Dad, haters are gonna hate,
(29:40):
don't worry about it. And I thought, Oh, that's a
bit of wisdom there. It reminds me of the road
rage thing, where you know, at some point in my
life I realized, oh that person has a lot of
anger and they're looking for a target. And if we
all learn, all right.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
That person who's posts something just horrible online, that's entirely
about them. It's not about me at all. It's a pathetic,
sad and angry person. I hope they get help.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, well, yeah, that works for a very vast majority
of people. The haters gonna hate. There's a certain chunk
who they're hatere is gonna kill, hater's gonna attack, hater's
gonna blow up.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Well, my final note on this, and we are doomed,
is that, uh, you can't look back to any prior
spasm of violence.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Or you know, the early seventies or whatever. No, I
was just about to say that, yeah, because.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
The mechanism for exchanging ideas has changed so completely.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Right, Yeah, we had like a bombing a week through
the seventies. Do you realize that across the country. But yeah,
they didn't have social media. Yeah, dang it, one boy.
I was going to say, I was going to pick
a side, but I'm not sure it makes any difference.
(31:08):
You have some sort of right wing I'm using my
finger quotes because their politics could be all over the place,
and they could be crazy kill somebody on the left,
high profile. Roughly, now we got a big problem. But
same as the other side. You get another conservative killed
by a left wing loon. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Yeah, there's going to be no calling off many many dogs.
My final self serving note on this, he says, having
already issued his final note. Came across this. When George
Floyd died, they burned down cities. When Charlie Kirk died,
we pray and host vigils. We are not the same.
There's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
There is a lot of truth to that. We will
finish strong.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Next forty five seconds, that's what you got to start
the show. I am going to donate one hundred thousand
dollars to the Boys and Girls Cla of America. So
if you stay forty five seconds, it stays.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
At one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Every second you go over forty five seconds, we will
adduct one thousand dollars away from the Boys and Girls Club.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I know, I know, I can't change it.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
This is a game I'm made up and these are
the rules.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So that's a good idea. From the Emmy's Last Night Bargatzi,
the comedians have a charity for a good cause, and
if you go over the speech time ducks money. I
can't change it. That's a pretty funny idea. Huh. So
(32:43):
we got some texts earlier. If you didn't hear my
story about giving donuts to my neighbors. That was an
hour two on the podcast Armstrong You Getty on demand.
I found myself with a whole bunch of donuts because
the donut chop gave us extras when we went there
closing time, and they're sitting around the house and I
was worried about eating them. I got a brand new neighbor,
(33:05):
and I thought, I'm gonna take this over to the neighbors.
I'm gonna say, hey, here's a little neighborhood welcome gift.
I felt bad about it, though, as I walked away
and heard him say to his wife, Oh god, our
extra neighbor's really a nice guy. Look he brought donuts
when all I was doing was trying to get rid
of the donuts.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
In my house.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Oh no, dear, he thought it would be nice. Oh hey,
wait a minute, so did you weren't completely not thinking
anything nice? It was there. It's like Michael said, I
could say, hey, I got an extra pork chop you
want to, But so you have to be a long
(33:43):
time listener to get this. When we got this text, Jack,
give your neighbor your used tennis balls. The story, I
don't Oh my god, I'll have to tell that again
on the podcast then if you don't remember it, I'm.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Strong against bound Strong, get ready, Katie Green and.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Strong your host for final thoughts, Joe Getty.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Hey, let's get a final thought from everybody on the
crew to wrap things up for the day. There he
is in the control room, Michaelangelo, pressing the buttons. Michael,
what's your final thought?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
You kind of still mind?
Speaker 9 (34:22):
Jack, I was going to suggest giving all your leftovers
to your next door neighbors. The other thing, too, is Joe,
I'm really looking forward to this taco Stan. You've mentioned
it several times that you're going to open one of
these things, So I'm hungry for daktaves.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yeah, Buddy in mine and I have been discussing this
very long time. Joe and Brian's California tacos. Yeah, we're
going to have the chicken, the fish, the beef.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Sounds like, oh yeah, yeah, tacos in short, Katie Green
are esteemed and used woman. As a final thought, Katie.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Thought, on the doughnuts, Jack, you could have thrown them away,
and there are starving children all over the world, so
you did the right thing.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
And did they eat some donuts? Or I've never understood
that rational Jack? Final thought for us?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Can I do a quick version of the tennis ball story?
I was playing tennis with my son at the country
club place where we are. I was dressed particularly poorly
that day. A couple of guys who were playing tennis
gave me their used tennis balls. I said, I thought
you and your son could use.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
The pouring down trodden are attempting to learn this honored, time,
honored game.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Isn't that sweet? Here have my fuzzy balls. Oh, Armstrong
and Geddy wrapic up another grueling four hour workday. So
many people, thanks so little time.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Good Armstrong andngeddy dot com for the hot links for
the swag for Katie's corner. Drops an oat mail bag
at Armstrong Engeddy dot com. You have an opinion you
want to share it, be happy to read it.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Look at that poor down fraud man probably gets to
see his son once a week from the home eating.
Let's give him our use tennis balls. See tomorrow, God
bless America. I'm strong, and there have been so many
magnificent moments.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
On today's arms Strong and Getty shown, but perhaps none
finer than this.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I can't believe you still want a pony so bad.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
I really do think a beautiful little pony I can
call my own, and you.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Can't.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
You can't just have a point. Let's not let's not
give up over a small obstacles, but by Armstrong and
Getty
Hosts And Creators
Joe Getty
Jack Armstrong
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