Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldergrave
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Your evening while wing to Sports Talking on Friday night
at seven after seventh July twelve, twenty twenty four. Good evening.
My name is Darsin Watergrave. Welcome on into Sports Talking
with me through till eight o'clock tonight. We're talking sport
rugby specifically, let's not beat around the bush here. It
(00:52):
is a significant day in rugby union tomorrow in New Zealand,
as last weekend had a significant day, the first test
of racer Robertson in charge of Scott Barrett Skipper's arm
band coming up against It's an English team that we
all rightly were concerned about. Turns out it was only
one point, could be thirty points. One point. It's still
(01:15):
a w right, that's all about it. But this time
around is there even more significance? Will this all black
side become the first side to be beaten at Eden
Park in three decades? There's some significance for you anyway.
We're going to talk about that. The change on the
New Zealand side, a couple of changes on the English side,
(01:35):
one of those coming to effect the saft the noon.
Will Kellahan joins us, the Times Deputy rugby correspondent. He's
over here following the tour. It's going to join us,
give us an English perspective on that first up match.
Also talk about the rush defense that has dominated in
the game and how indeed that is counted, or if
(01:56):
you feel good, do we just get rid of it
all together and go you know what, move that line.
It's blurring the line too much. We'll talk to you
about that as well, moving that off sideline back to
counter this rush defense. How much does it ruin an
expressive attacking game of rugby that the Southern Hemisphere crew
will actually just us in Australia really like, and the
(02:17):
rest of the world, wow, they're a bit more stern.
We'll talk about that one hundred and eighty ten eighty
and after that we'll have a we yarm with Bryn
Hall form a Crusaders half back among other super franchises
played under Scott's Robinson. We'll talk about the tactical changes
they'll be bringing to the game. Of course the half
back debate as well, so Bryn Hall later on in
(02:41):
the piece. Before we launch headfirst into any of that
let's wander into this for today and it's for today.
It's a tad strange that All Black skin of Scott
Barrett needed a refresher course and test rugby, but hey,
you go on anyway, right, Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
It was a great reminder actually of what test matches
is about. An arm wrestle, a battle and the team
that sort of hangs in there. You know, they certainly
don't lie down contests in every dimension of the game.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Tomorrow night will be nothing short of that.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Again, wait, what we've got a test match? Was that enough?
Already English rugby coach Steve Borthwick is hanging out some
early the All Blacks ahead of tomorrow's second standoff. Will
they bite?
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I get the sense it's an expectation which New Zealand
rugby supports. The New Zealand beat us with some style
and expect us to lose a Saturday and New Zealand
to play with a different style than what they played
last Sunday. If you interesting to see whether in New
Zealand do.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
That, then I'm going to follow into your trap. White
Ferns Skipo. Sophie Divine delivered a that candid compliment to
run Machine teammate Susie Bates. The Ferns god slapped again
their sixth straight lass, but Susie marked the occasion, bringing
up ten thousand runs an international cricket shot.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
She's competitive, she has the best work ethic that I've
ever seen, even as an eighty four year old, still
going out there mixing it with the youngsters. But her
care and love for the game is something that I
really taken inspiration from.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Eighty four. Black Fern's coach Alan Bunting has described this
weekend's a debutante player Atlanta.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
Powerful, electric, really physical around the field and working really
hard around.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
The set piece and got some real desire and.
Speaker 7 (04:23):
Wants to be a Black Fund and she's been working
really well, so she really deserves the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Damn she sounds good and that rake oka number two
will make her prisons felt from the bench against Australia
in tomorrow Afternoon's Riley Cup. And that's sport today, And
let's a welcome an English journalist into the program from
the Times in London and England. The Deputy Rugby correspondent
(04:48):
will tell her, well, welcome to the show, Welcome to
New Zealand. You've been here a while now, how's it treading?
Speaker 8 (04:54):
You made? Yeah? Loving it?
Speaker 9 (04:55):
I had a great time. I spent a year living
here ten twelve years ago and so it's great to
be back. We don't get winters like this back in London.
So loving a bit of Auckland son.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I think we all love in New Aukland sun. This
is wee bit unusual. Let's say this is not an
honors for reflection of New Zealand with her. Look, let's
hope it shines. Well I'd be shining then. But it's
a beautiful day for tomorrow. Second Test. Very keen people
right around this Test match considering the nature of your
close defeat last week in this is right here and
(05:29):
really the grab right.
Speaker 8 (05:30):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 9 (05:31):
I mean lots of the talk this week has been
about the eden Park record, the thirty years without defeat,
and England are looking at that and going record to
there to be broken. We want to be the ones
that end that run of forty eight wins, two draws,
no defeats at eden Park. Look, I think it's going
to be another nipper and we'll probably get onto it.
(05:53):
But some music we've had earlier today in New Zealand
is that George Fairbank is out of the Test with
a back injury and Freddie Stuer comes into That might
change the dynamic too, But I think, like last week,
it looks like a great opportunity for to win.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So how does that change the energy on the pack
with this late replacement. What can we expect? What are
we going to lose? What are we going to gain?
Speaker 9 (06:15):
So it's a fascinating development because people, the keys who
followed the England team for a while will have seen
Freddie to played a lot of tests and he's only
twenty three but I think he's got thirty three caps.
So he had a quick rise and became one of
the best fallbacks in the world and very safe under
the high ball.
Speaker 8 (06:32):
He's very good in the air.
Speaker 9 (06:33):
I mean he's about six foot four six foot five,
so that kind of helps. But he's yeah, good under
those high kicks, which but England have kind of moved
away from that style and George Fairbank was very much
part of that development of the attacking game plan and
trying to move the ball and running it back, which
keys would have seen England try and move the ball
a bit more than they did at the World Cup
(06:54):
last week and so losing Fairbank, who was part of
the Northampton team that won the premiership, is a bit
of a blow. And then it's an interesting dynamic because Stewart,
albeit is a top class player, hasn't played since the
nine teenth of May, which was the end of the
regular league season in the Premiership. But it's been on
tour from Tokyo to Dunedin to Auckland and not played
(07:15):
a minute. So he's doing a lot of training and
the guys are telling us that he's been carving up
in training. But it's very different playing a testa mattually Park,
isn't it. So you he doesn't quite have the dynamism
of furback, but he's incredibly safe.
Speaker 8 (07:30):
Under the hyeballs.
Speaker 9 (07:30):
So you wonder whether England pivot their game plan slightly
to accommodate Stewart.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
What would that pivot involve. It's going to be different
style of play, but you can't dramatically or drastically change
what you're doing. That's a spanner in the works, you know, tweaks.
Possibly will we might see some change?
Speaker 8 (07:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (07:50):
Possibly, I mean they they will stay committed I think
to this what they want to do, which is this
high tempo game plan which helped them beat Ireland during
the Six Nations. But they may put up a few
more high bombs like they lost. Would say they lost
the aerial battle last year, like Mark Telaer and.
Speaker 8 (08:10):
Guys that that were very good on the high ball.
Speaker 9 (08:12):
Sevy Ree smashed Fairbank a couple of times, albeit Fairbank
caught the ball at the end of that test last week.
I would expect Steward to be used to bat the
ball back. Tommy Freeman, same on the wing, a couple
of tour players, and if you can win that battle,
they'll think they'll have footholds in the game. And if
they can get a couple of scrum pens and kick
to the corner of some lineouts, that might be their
(08:33):
way into it. But I don't think they'll completely depart
from what they're doing because that's not the basic way.
Speaker 8 (08:39):
But naturally with a.
Speaker 9 (08:40):
Different player in the back line, there will be some
differences in how they'll have to attack.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I think what you do on a TECH and the
way this team formulates to tech. It's so close but
so far away. Where are the areas do you believe
the pecks specifically have to lift to get on that
Frank Fort. We're joined by will kellaher Times Stupid Rugby
correspond Where do you think the area is to lift?
Speaker 9 (09:06):
So I think that the breakdown battle was an absolute
war last weekend and from my view up in the
stands in Donedin, I thought that Ben Earl and Sam
Underhill didn't quite have their best day against Dalton, Papollie
and Ardie Severe who were winning loads of turnover and
slowing the ball down. There are a couple of times
where the England carrier got isolated and it was kind
(09:28):
of a face to complete that he was going to
get turned over. So I think the job of eight
seven and six and Cunning himself being the sixth is
huge on Saturday, just blasting the rucks, getting rid of
some of those bodies on the floor in England attacking
because they could never get into their kind of attacking
shape if they don't get the ball back quick enough.
(09:49):
It was obvious looking at the stats that the All
Blacks had far quicker ball than England last Saturday. So
that's a huge challenge and that all starts with the breakdown,
doesn't it to be fair?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I think the lass for the All Blacks didn't exactly
cover themselves in glory. These room for them to lift too,
so they promise is an explosive cluestion. And we know
what Earl's capable of here in outrageously good six Nations,
didn't he was agaby the player of the tournament.
Speaker 9 (10:17):
Yeah, and he was actually voted by his peers as
England's player of the season. So going back to the
World Cup, and he was pretty good in that tournament too.
You saw when we went to watch them play Japan
in Tokyo that he moved out to twelve at the.
Speaker 8 (10:31):
End of that game.
Speaker 9 (10:32):
And we were asking Ardi severa about it last week
and he was saying he's got some swaggy feet, which
I quite enjoyed that as an explanation.
Speaker 8 (10:40):
So yeah, look, I think he's he's had good.
Speaker 9 (10:43):
Games in big games, but he'll need another one this weekend.
Speaker 8 (10:46):
And then Underhill's kind of the.
Speaker 9 (10:48):
Destructive tackler, the work, great guy, but I think, yeah,
big big games for them, because clearly Surveyor is well.
Speaker 8 (10:56):
He literally is the World Player of the Year for
twenty twenty three. But he's one of the greats, isn't he.
Speaker 9 (11:00):
So that's always going to be difficult and we always
look at the All Blacks and go they improve.
Speaker 8 (11:06):
Their second week.
Speaker 9 (11:07):
That's the history of the All Blacks, isn't it Like
whether they're rusty to start with or not, they get
better after a week. So the challenge for England is
can they get can they improve quicker than the All Blacks?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Well, of course he coming out of some of them
haven't played in a while, coming out of a Super
Rugby Pacific season too, so adjusting and I'm presuming that's
why Scott Robertson didn't make well. He only made the
one change forced by injury because he wanted these players
to get into a rhythm, trust them in inside and
out of them and that's the most sensible way to
go forward. Did that surprise you? The lack of change
(11:39):
and the English media about what Scott Robertson has actually
picked what he's going to put out there.
Speaker 9 (11:44):
So I think last week lots of us were slightly
surprised that Boden Barrett didn't play fifteen to start and
we understand why. I guess he's not had a full
Super Rugby season like Perafeta was part of the championship
winning Blues team. Wasn't he was Barrett had a quiet
a season and then I think maybe more surprised he
(12:05):
didn't come in, But again you can see the justification
of having a guy with one hundred and twenty odd
caps coming off the bench and closing out the game.
And he was fantastic when he did come off the bench.
Last week, Barrett and Perafeta did well and.
Speaker 8 (12:17):
He set up the trivers of didn't he go through well?
Speaker 9 (12:21):
So look, yes, but both teams, aside well before Furbank
had to come in with Stuart Lake, have made one
injury enforced change. So these are interesting, aren't they. We
kind of love these series because you look at the
first game, it's a bit like Test Cricket, isn't it,
And you go, right, I don't know. Both teams have
revealed parts of their plans, so how does it change
(12:42):
with Test two. Jamie George has spoken about that he's
a big cricket fan himself. I was saying, sort of
love the tactical nuances of these series where there are
battles all over the field and everyone kind of knows
a bit more about each other for Test two, So
how do you use that to your advantage?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Two of the most oft used words when it's talking
about Northern Hemisphere rugby versus the Southern Hemisphere counterparts rush defense.
There's been a lot of discussion around how to unpeck that,
how to avoid that. It's been suggested that maybe the law,
the global rugby law, around where the line is it
needs to be adjusted. It needs to be pushed back
(13:21):
because players need more space and freedom. Otherwise it becomes
basically a clash of the monsters up the front. How
do you feel about that? Because this is a strength
of Northern Hemisphere rugby, it doesn't need to be legislated against.
Speaker 8 (13:35):
Uh, definitely not in my view.
Speaker 9 (13:37):
I mean, I find that the Russian defense things fascinating
and because it's so risk rewards, like you saw a
few occasions last week where the All Blacks got around
it and England scrambled back, and I feel like it's
quite exciting. If you see someone like Henry Slave flying
out the line, he's got to make the right read
otherwise he's toast and your Blacks arem behind. I think
(13:58):
it's interesting and it puts pressure on the attacking skill.
The question will be, yeah, how the All Blacks will.
Speaker 8 (14:05):
Try and counter it?
Speaker 9 (14:06):
Sounds from what they were saying, is they may play
a bit more through the middle and up the guts.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
And use some of the big fourds.
Speaker 9 (14:13):
And that's kind of how the Blues one super rugby,
wasn't it? That for dominated style under Verncotta, And maybe
two which we saw a little bit in the second half,
a few little kicks behind to sort of check the defense.
But look, I personally there's plenty in rugby that could
well be changed, but I don't think that's one thing
that we should be.
Speaker 8 (14:32):
Too worried about.
Speaker 9 (14:32):
It makes for a fascinating contest balance between attack and defense.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And I suppose it's it's judicated as well, and all
players are always going to push the envelope as far
as close to the line as they possibly can. It's
the nature. Gee, we had a guy quite good at
back in the day, Richie mccaugh. How we know how
this operates? Will Keller had joined us. He's a deputy
rugby correspondent from the Times, the winning and the losing
(15:00):
of the game. I know we can't simplify rugby, but
where does it sit for you?
Speaker 8 (15:05):
I mean, kicking is going to be key, isn't it?
Speaker 9 (15:08):
In these type tents nippers of test matches. Both both
Tens missed key goals last week and it didn't quite
matter for Damian McKenzie, but blind me, can you imagine
if England had scored after mackenzie been timed out of
his shot clock last week and if Marcus Smith had
got a couple of others during the game. You've got
to be a clutch kicker at this level, haven't you?
(15:29):
And generally Marcus Smith is a pretty good kicker. He's
up in the eighty percent, but had a bad.
Speaker 8 (15:34):
Day on the tea last week, so that's going to
be massive.
Speaker 9 (15:37):
I think kicking your goals aside from everything else. We
saw it in the Lions series down here in twenty
seventeen where Boden Barrett missed some key goals.
Speaker 8 (15:46):
Like you've got to kick your threes and your two's.
When you get the chances, don't.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You take the opportunity win it's there. Always take your threes,
look after your core roles and the rist well bets rugby,
isn't it, Hey Will, Thanks so much for joining us,
carry on enjoying your time here in Auckland and get
amongst the Curse of Eden Park.
Speaker 8 (16:05):
You even know might get tipped pleasure. Thanks for having
me on.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Forget the refs call, you make a call sports talk
on your home of sport these talks.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That is, Deputy rugby correspondent from the Times will callaher
ahead of the second of two test matches Eden Park
tomorrow evening, roughly twenty four hours from now. Interesting topics
around there and what the English made of that exchange?
What happens tomorrow one of the points out of us?
Has this all been written about by Phil Gifford, who
(16:42):
writes for News in on held long time rugby correspondent,
talking about the ridiculousness of the off side line and
how it actually operates. He writes, the rugby really caught
fire because England's defensive players lived right on the off
side line as a balanced on it like pipe rope walkers. So,
(17:09):
as I put to Will Kellagher, and we've had this
discussion before, but I'd like you to answer it as well,
does World Rugby need to do something about this? Does
World Rugby need to draw a line in the sand
or a red mark in the turf? And so you
just simply cannot transgress this because it's choking up the game.
(17:31):
The easier way to do it be to pull it
back five meters so you got plenty of space. But
then does that take away the essence of rugby? Does
that take away the advantage of the Northern Hemisphere teams?
And if it does, why would World Rugby do anything
about it? Maybe if the offside line was exactly where
(17:52):
it should be and it hasn't just that a wave,
it hasn't used to be the hindmost foot. I think
it's the hindmost part of the body if you will,
it's there or thereabouts. If it was actually policed properly,
it maybe not be a problem. But it's so hard
to believe because it's so tight. So it was drifted
(18:14):
back five meters and there was still some gray area there,
it wouldn't be such a perversion of the game and
cloud what should be a beautiful attacking game of rugby.
Now that is my point of view, from a New
Zealand point of view, But I think it's important that
(18:34):
I argue with myself and you can ARQ two O
eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty line is open.
It's a rule in rugby that we all know about.
It's there. It's not a surprise it's not something that's
been foisted upon us at the last moment. We know that.
So is there any point in us complaining about the
(18:55):
rulings or would be better off working out a way
to fight against the rush defense as opposed to complain
to actually use some brain to work away around this.
So there as we'll point it out their high risk
(19:15):
defensive effort. If something goes slightly awry, they get punished
with a try. Is there a way to work through this?
So my question to you, and by all means you're
throw anything at me or at the audience or talk
to yourself about the game tomorrow evening, But I'm interested
in the off sideline. Does this need to be dragged
(19:35):
back just to make it simpler for the officials to
adjudicate so it's not so exacting. If there are maybe
a nudge off side, it doesn't matter because they're five
meters back, or do you wear it and go right?
We got to be smart around this. How do we
(19:55):
quash this ridiculousness? How do we overcome this rush defense
that's what's clouding the game? Oh one hundred and eighty
ten eighty lines are open. It's twenty six minutes after sitting.
You're up next here on news Dogs it b.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
Do you have fun?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
It's James my name?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Whennie what to go?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Do? Go? Do? Please?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Do you hear it from the biggest names and sports men.
Have your say on eighty ten eighty sports Talk on
your home of sports newstalks.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
It betwe nine sports talk Here on News Doalks ez
B lines are open and eight hundred eighty ten av
free phone number nation wide. You can text that will
attract the standards. Text charge ZBZB nine two nine two.
(20:50):
It's at the phone's known Brent with some comments on
the off sideline, the removal of the moving of the
adjudication of Brent. What have you got for us?
Speaker 10 (21:00):
I see, I'm so glad you have write the subject Mate.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
This a long time bag beer.
Speaker 10 (21:07):
Since ninety ninety seven. The reason I've gone off rugby
big time. Your sideline broseven non existent. I have be
sold it. We should have got a vote on now.
I played for thirty years to us in sixty seven.
Even the outside backs had to be back ten yards
and that's the way I played my entire career. The
game's a lot faster, a lot quicker, and a lot
(21:29):
more tries. Better tries and a better bed player. You're right, Darcin,
the Northern Hemisphere dropped it so that they could defeat
the Southern Hemisphere. It's the only reason. That's the dast.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I'd like what you're saying. I don't know if that's
the exact reason why it was tweaked, wouldn't surprise me.
Why do you think is there a side to what
you believe as a rugby player that adds extra to
the game or not.
Speaker 10 (21:55):
Darsie, I think it was just it was an admittance
from the Northern Hemisphere that the Sudden Hemisphere had the
best banks.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, they had the ability to run with the ball
and the want More's the point to run with the ball.
They wanted to do it, and this operated wealth. I
wasn't aware. Bran, Thanks for informing of that this is
something they actually said.
Speaker 10 (22:16):
It's an ugly game when they are up so flat,
and like Stu Wilson said, the cheats bro.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh well, rugby is a game of cheats. It's whoever
cheats best because the games or the laws of the
game are so gray and so blurred that whoever does
it to the best of their ability and gets one
of the referee, they win. It's just the nature of rugby, right.
Speaker 10 (22:36):
It's made the game very unattractive, though, dart to forget
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Absolutely. I get that there are people out there who
don't mind the grind, and they don't mind the aggression
and the abrasive nature of four driven battles, and I
get that, but I think it needs to be balanced,
running rugby balanced. What do they say about well, that's
what Phil Gifford wrote. Wasn't the initial drive around rugby
(23:02):
picking up a ball and running with it? Yes, what's
going to make you watch the game again? You're gonna
watch tomorrow?
Speaker 10 (23:11):
It does. If they just moved back five yards, I mean,
we need to be back and it doesn't take wrong
to make up ten yards, does it?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
No, it doesn't. And what I say before Britant, when
you've got a line right on the highmost foot of
the high most part, that's all well and good. If
it is maybe move by a player who's pushing his
luck by a foot to use old money, it makes
a massive difference. If it's a five meter line and
they cheat or transgress by our foot, it's not going
(23:40):
to make much of a difference. So you don't have
to police that line so intently, which plainly isn't done
because you look at well, the all blacks are guilty
of but as well so are our teams at home.
You look at it and go, well, they're just having
a gamble, that's what they're doing because the law allows
them to do that.
Speaker 10 (23:59):
It's the reason we're not getting the crowds that the
rugby anymore does. Whennice to go to athlete the park
as a nine ten year old, we used to see
some NBC bro way back.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
When in the good old days. Brian, thank you very
much for your call at seven point thirty three. When
do you sit on the swan? Is it a necessary tweet?
It was news to me Brent saying that you may
know more than I do around that that they freely
admitted the fact that their backs are no good, so
we're just going to move the off sideline. I find
that hard to believe. It wouldn't surprise me, though, is
(24:30):
the success of the game with the joy of the
game from a spectator's point of view, about running flowing rugby,
Because there's a brutal, hard edge about rugby, which is
this armed arm combat in the trenches a lot of
people really enjoy it, and I do as well, but
it needs the balance of having the ability to play
(24:55):
free flowing fast ball in hand rugby. So the question
I pose to you at the startup the program around
how this operates. Is it a case of having a
wee has he fit because we don't necessarily like the
laws or the application thereof in the game. Or is
(25:16):
it more was it better to work on a way
of circumventing this ridiculousness and trying to find a way
so you can actually counter the rush defense and give
yourself an advantage. I would tend toward that because you
don't see rules being changed that Glacier on their response
to problems are World Rugby ound eighty ten at give
(25:39):
us a cord I love to hear from me. Let's
run through some text now nineteen nine two zeb z
B Great rugby was played by the backline. It stands
ten meters behind the number eight. The game really flowed.
That is from John. Indeed, Steve has a solution. If
the defense is up flat, just kick it long, turn
(26:00):
them around and make them scramble. Were talking about Verned
coz to Cottist mirthful vern from the Blues, saying you're
dragging players in and having that combat in the middle.
Even if there is a rush defense, you drag everybody in.
It gives you more room east and when it's out white,
So maybe try and develop a way to counter it
(26:22):
that way. It's chess, and it's a coach's game. How
they fight this, we will see. Doug says, loose forwards
the key to break down the English and interesting the
assertion there too from will Callaha that their lusies weren't
as good as we'd like, and they've got room to
improve it. I think that's fair enough for me to
(26:44):
say that our lusers went the best eaither, so if
they both improve by a percentile, maybe they'll wipe each
other out. Of course, the scrum the front row the
engine room looked very very good. Can they carry it on?
So a text. I seem to remember that back in
the seventies and probably into the eighties, attacking back lines
(27:06):
were angled deeper than they are nowadays. Rush defense is
only as effective as how close the attacking back line is.
Surely it is all relative. I heard someone say the
other day that you may have to go back before
you can go forward. Maybe the attacking back line just
needs to be angled deeper. Indeed, counter what's going on,
(27:27):
work out what they're going to do, what their tendency
is like, how does that plan too our arms? And
another question, do you think there would have been a
shot clock on the screen this weekend of England that
had been timed out?
Speaker 8 (27:45):
Maybe not.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Brent Hall joins us next. He is a former half
back at super rugby level. Did play some rep rugby
at his Little Mary level I believe it was, but
never got to the All Blacks. Nice guy, wonderful broadcaster,
pretty crash hot half back. Probably got the short sharp
as far as international honors are concerned, it was coach
why I raised Robinson has a webing about how he works.
(28:09):
Coming up next, we'll talk to Britain about one of
the big points of the selection this weekend and TJ
pett And was all busted up so they had to
rolling ladies and gentlemen step I'm up to the plate,
finbook Christas his news Talk Day nineteen minutes to eight,
(28:42):
Sports Talk, Caring, News Talk, zeb Bieber and Hall adj
just around the corner before we go to the half back,
Let's go to the talk back. Hey, Phil, How are
you good?
Speaker 11 (28:51):
Thanks? Darthy right, I'll pre face this coming. I'm almost sixty.
I have gone off not because of the rush defense,
but because of the kicking. And I thought about this
for quite a while. I would really really love to
see the outlawing kicking from a formed on your side
(29:14):
of the fifty between say the twenty two. So you
can't kick the ball. You have to deal with what
you've dealt with in between that space between the fifty
year odline and the twenty two.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
We'll see around kicking specifically, because the laws are always
getting adjusted. You've got the new fifty two situations, so
on and so forth. What drives you crazy about it?
Speaker 11 (29:40):
Too much? Kicking away possessional.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
They've adjusted that here in Super Rugby, so it is
no longer a case of forceback. And I think that's
worked reasonably well. It's not at an international level. But
what about the offside situation with the rush defense? Is
there a way of countering that? So that's just the
topic we're on.
Speaker 11 (30:03):
Fill look at. To me, a foot off side is
a foot off side. You get away with what the
rest gives you there. I admire what's happening in Ruby
now with with the with that rush defense, and how
(30:25):
and how players can be developed with the rush defense.
I think it's taken a little strong a long while
for New Zealand teams to deal with that rough defense.
I think they're way better than they were six years ago.
I would just like to see less defense of kicking
(30:48):
out inside the twenty two no problem. In between twenty
two and halfway, no problem. Sorry, in between halfway and
the twenty two, big problem out attacking kicking from give
or take the passy meter line that's an attacking kick.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Well, they've looked and film. Thanks for your call. They've
looked to adjust that. As I said in Super Rugby
Pacific and I think the aerial ping pong has decreased somewhat.
That's what the clauses to quick search Law teen point seven,
look it up, see if it's work. I think it
has because we haven't seen the kicking in Super Rugby
(31:26):
that we've experienced in previous times. And now for already
time out to talk to a half back by the
name of Bryn Hall at seven forty three.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
The right call is your call on oh eight hundred
and eighty eighty sports Talk call on your home of
sports used talk Zibby.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
We're joined it now by mister Brynn hall Bruin. Thanks
for joining.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Us, thanks he having thanks having me.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I suppose first up being is that is your position
of strength and half back? What do you make of
this selection of Finley Christie to climb into that role?
And it made perfect sense he was the second cab
off the rank. But how do you think that's going
to affect what the All Blacks are up to?
Speaker 7 (32:05):
Look, I don't think it's going to be There's not
going to be a lot of change, to be honest.
I think the good thing that I like about Finley,
and he probably doesn't get the reps that he deserves,
is that he's very consistent.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
In all core core role areas.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
So a pretty good pass, gets the ball nice and fast,
has a really good at stute kicking game, very good
around the.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Contestables, which we saw in that first Test match.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
And I think also his competitiveness around the physicality for
his size, around.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Defense of communicating. So he does all those things really
really well.
Speaker 7 (32:30):
And every time that I say with Finlay is that
his bad game is an eight and his good games
at ten. So that consistency that you get with finlay
Is is pretty good at this level. So yeah, I'm
not surprised that he's starting and he's.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Going to do really well. I think at Adden Park,
hit at his home stadium, he.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Could probably do with a bit more help from the
loose forwards. Don't want to be critical, but I am.
They probably didn't hit a HUNDI did. They didn't really
help TJ or McKenzie in that first test. They needed
to be more aggressive, more present, give more room.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
To a certain extent, I think, and if you look
in the first half when TJ was on the actual
the quickness around the ball and especially in that first
half was really really good. I think the spookiness of
the England line speed pressure was probably more the troubles
that we had. So if you look in that first half,
there were maybe three or four opportunities that the All
Blacks tried to get it to the width, but just
with the execution of the lines, speed pressure from the
(33:22):
England and probably the skill.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Set wise in and around that area and on the edge,
we weren't able to get their ball away.
Speaker 7 (33:28):
So I think the Foards will know that the physicality
right is the most important part. They need to get
over their advantage line. We've got great athletes in the
temper that we'll be able to play off that. But
I think as well, it's just to understand that that
defense is coming and sometimes you have to play against
lin speed to understand it. You can have that analysis,
you can have that preview, but it's not until you're
in the heat of battle. And those All Blacks boys
would have felt that in the first test. So I
actually see them being a lot better and we'll see
(33:50):
a better attacking ability from the All Blacks on on
Saturday night at Eden Park.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I would say, what do you have to do to
mitigate something like that intense lines speed? Because this has
been something that the All Blacks have struggled with for
quite some time. It seems to be quite a good
tactic to use against them. It's like it's speed and confusion.
So what's the best way through to come on, Coach Hall,
let me know.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
There's a couple of ways. I know this is really boring,
but it really is.
Speaker 7 (34:12):
The first part of it, the physicality at the breakdown
and winning the collisions. It's probably an area that we
struggle at times with big ball carriers. So you know
your lights of your Scott bart even Patrick twok blows
is a perfect example of that. When he gets over
the advantage line, it then starts to give us a good.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Go for a ball around getting the attack.
Speaker 7 (34:30):
So the physicality around our one to eight is really
important getting that quick ball and then from that it's
been able to on the edge. Like I talked about
having your depth right, having the ability to get that
ball to the edge through a really good skill set,
through the position of where the.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Ball is going to be.
Speaker 7 (34:44):
You can't get the ball behind shoulder up higher because
that lines we pushed that we saw on the weekend
with the thirteen and the fourteen from English, we couldn't
get that ball away. And then lastly it's your kick game.
You look at Damien McKenzie's ability to be able to
get that cross your kick to Sivorie. Now you've got
to be able to pull through when that pitch has
been seen. So it might only happen three or four
times without last defenders inside the fifteen or was it
(35:05):
really really up with the fallback not there And you've
got to be able to pull pull trigger.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
So and that's the unfortunate thing with the lines speed pressure.
Speaker 7 (35:12):
You're only going to get a few opportunities in different
areas around that, and you've just got to be able
to get it right, which will probablytruggle with in the past.
So look, I look forward to seeing what the solutions
and if they can be better in that space, which
is probably we're just a little bit off on the weekend.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
It's their execution. And I've always talked about this accuracy
and speed. It's super important in any form of rugby.
And this is what you're saying. You've got to be accurate,
you've got to do it quick, and you've got to
be ready to react if that small moment arises so
very present, to use a modern word Britain.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Well tried. I tried to.
Speaker 7 (35:43):
I'll watch a lot of code and I do it
for a job on my right side, watch a bit
of code. So but I think it's been able to
marry up all those things. And that's the challenge for
the All Blacks. It's not only just the or Blacks,
but anybody that goes up against lightspeed pressure, whether it's
super rugby. You look at the Hurricanes, they bring a
high lightspeed pressure, and the Chiefs and even the Blues.
They were able to nullify that, so you've just got
to be able to do it for a long period.
(36:04):
It's a time and again lastly, in the second half,
they changed. They changed their game plan. We wanted to
play a high octane game, but they felt that they
couldn't get around the English and we weren't able to
attack and execute under pressure, so they went to a
kicking game. Finlay Christie comes on, they go to the
box kick and I think we actually lowered our passes
throughout the duration of that second half, and I guess
(36:25):
that the work ond for that will be we want
the contestable to be on the money so you can
actually contest the ball. There were probably just a touch
too long from Demo and Finlay, even though they were
able to stop ball and all. If you can get
that to a fifty to fifty contest, then it opens
up for the counter attack.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
Two quick passes.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
Then we get our athletes like talaa severe Perifeter, which
we saw beat Ben Earl on the weekend, getting those
guys in the kind of counterattack exchanges.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
What about the team itself. Britain Hall joins US former
super rugby player for the Blues and the Crusaders the
team that's been announced only the one change forced by injury. Sensible.
Speaker 7 (36:57):
Yeah, I think they're just probably knowing Ray and the
amount of time that they've had together.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Continuity is really really important.
Speaker 7 (37:03):
So the boys at the job on the weekend that
twenty three got quarters at our team who's coming into
the twenty one role with Twog being injured. So I think,
especially in a test match like this, knowing that coaching group,
knowing the players don't want to get this win, so
Rais has given those guys another opportunity to get the
job done. And again, I think we'll see a better
version of it another week in camp, the more conversations
that there would have had collectively as players, as coach
(37:25):
has been able to have strategy meetings, Defensi meetis, and
that week more we'll set them up really well. Knowing
that you know that Fiji game in San Diego, a
lot more of these kind of debutantes with the lysis
to tt maybe quarters at our team are and Tossi
and other guys that haven't played this through two test
matches will get a nice run for.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
That Fuji, that Fuji game in San diego.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Confidence as well to the players Raizor Ray Robinson saying, look,
you can be better. I know you can. I'm going
to give you another week to build these connections and
prove to us that you can as opposed to game right,
you're out, You're out, You're out, because that not that
I've ever been a professional rugby player, but that kind
of chop and changing can be quite disruptive, especially early
(38:04):
in the season.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
Absolutely, and I think you've got to credit England and
the team that they have. I think New Zealand and
public will probably would have thought if you haven't watched
the Six Nations and you haven't watched them in that
World Cup as well, they're a very very good side
and you saw that on the weekend, so I think
they probably were licking their lips in that first Test
match and thinking that we're going to get them at
a good time. So yeah, I think the combinations is
really important and I think it just shows to respect
(38:27):
to this England side that they can attack, they can kick,
they can defend, and they can go to set peace.
So again, the All Blacks can have to be on
in all those kind of areas and I know they
will be. But this English side, if you don't get
it right and we don't do some of the things
that we did well on the weekend, will be in
trouble again that we were not always say that we
were in trouble, but we were up against it.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
They can say a pretty good English English side.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, the English sid's played together a lot more than
the All Blacks have. Of course they've gone right through
Six Nations campaign, got on tour as well and looking
back at those games, what are they finished thing? It
was third across the six Nations britt There was only
one blowout game. The other games are within one and
two points. So they know how to fight, They know
how to defend or then know how to fight back.
(39:09):
But you can never write mav can you.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Oh mate?
Speaker 7 (39:12):
And if you look at if you actually just do
look at the English side. I think in that World
Cup they had to see both were coming. Eddie Jones
had left them. I guess you know, they probably didn't
have a lot of time, so they went to the
traditional kick chase pressure, being able to build through set
piece and being able to do a really good kicking game.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
But if you if you looked at the back end
of that Six Nations.
Speaker 7 (39:30):
They beat Ireland, which is a really great game that
they played, and they went pretty close to the French
as well.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
I think there's only a couple of points in it
if I remember.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
So.
Speaker 7 (39:37):
They were building really nicely, changing a bit of DNA
around them. They bought this lives to be pressure that
they did at the back end of the Six Nations
just they'll continue to keep getting better, which we saw
on the weekend, and their attackability. If you look at
Embossy Boss, I think it's theo who is what's his name?
Speaker 4 (39:53):
His names are?
Speaker 7 (39:55):
Yeah in bossaw that try there is pretty much the
DNA of England. You've got Alex smithch who I think
is one of the best hardbacks in the world around
testing that heart defense and being able to be real
good in that sniping running game is if you you're
very good at that.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
And you've got Marcus Smith missed nine points on the weekend.
You didn't think he'd.
Speaker 7 (40:11):
Get that right, but his ability to be able to
play on top of the teams having outside runners of
him with a little pop board been able to get
players flat to the line off him. It's really good
in their outside backs. Fairbank is probably one of the
best full works in the world and he's just he's
just come onto the scene. So there's a lot to
like about that England team and they'll continue to keep
getting better.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
No need for the DMO. We've got the breakdown on
Sports Talk. Call eight News Talks B For more from
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