August 1, 2024 • 10 mins
After a season like the Crusaders just had in Super Rugby, it wouldn't exactly be a shock if they sacked the coach....
...but interestingly, CEO Colin Mansbridge has decided he's not gonna do that.
He spoke to D'Arcy Waldegrave on Sportstalk about why he hasn't given Rob Penney the boot.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk Z'B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We now have a Colin Man's Bridge on the program
and we're talking about the review that decided that well,
Rob Penny is not going anywhere. He's sticking on for
the twenty twenty five season. No comment will be made
around twenty six and beyond. It's all about next year.
Colin joins us now and Good Evening. Colin looked at
the review, I'm presuming put the season under a very
(00:38):
serious microscope.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
It was.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It was a very important process.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
It was Darcy.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yeah, I think, as you know, we got We do
a review every year, so that's that's not unusual to
do a postseason review, and we'll always talk to players, coaches,
staff and get sort of calibrate views across the whole place.
This year we did a little bit of external stuff
as we sometimes do historically, so we had richardung In
(01:06):
from who's done Olympic campaign reviews for New Zealand and
Great Britain before, and we went to GameLine as well,
and both of them came to a similar conclusion, which
was that there's lots of things you could do, but
you are changing a coach, isn't going to be the
isn't going to be the answer?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
What premand set up though? For these two consultants, What
did you want to achieve? What did you tell them
to look at specifically or was it more of a
take a good look, what do you get?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well? That's definitely with Richard's done.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
He's done three Olympic campaign reviews for Great Britain, he's
done five with the New Zealand Olympic team.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
He's done work with New Zealand rank and he's done
cycling New Zealand reviews.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
And basically it was we're doing a campaign review, we
want to understand what went well, what didn't go well,
what do we need to do And we weren't explicit
asking about the coach, but obviously, you know, coaching was
part of that insight that we were looking for. So
(02:11):
he spoke to or he led a review with all
of the staff, front and back office, coaches, management players,
and then we used game Line to sort of externally
give us an external assessment of what should we have
done and how did we do based on their proprietary models,
(02:33):
And both came back and neither.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Suggested that we should change the coaching.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
So what form did the review come back to you in?
Was there a series of suggestions could do better? You
failed at this, but you did good here? What did
you actually get back? What did you even have to
pick through with the board before he decided to retain.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Rob So there was I think there was fifty three recommendations,
and some of them were smaller, some of them were bigger,
And that was a synthesis of probably you know, many
many more conversations in fifty three, but the syens ofus
of that was fifty three recommendations. In terms of the
(03:14):
game line stuff. It probably came back to almost giving
us a sense of where we could have been with
the roster that we had contracted versus where we ended
up being with the roster that we ended up having
to deal.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
With throughout the year.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
And so there's fifty three bits of work for us
to do basically.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Now, none of them are.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Groundbreaking or major in of themselves, but you had the
fifty three together, and we're confident that's going to make
a difference to our twenty twenty five season.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You said you're not going to tell everybody what they are,
Maybe you do it to the fans that on pain
of death, you're not going through because you can't let
the opposition know exactly what's going on. But like, out
of those fifty three, and many of them are procedurals
that only small adjustments, how's it been taken by Rob
and the coaches and the players some of the mad
(04:06):
action items that you must address.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Well, I think that's the thing that there's something there
for everyone.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
When you've got fifty three, there's obviously something for everyone,
and so and some of it's you know, it's not
fifty three not very important things, but they're just they're
not fifty three grenade type issues there.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
They might be around communication, they might be around process,
they might be around lots of little things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So and there is something for everyone. There's something for
the CEO, there's something for most people in the organization.
And so we'll work our way through those.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And it's a little bit like doing a match review.
You want your players at the end of each game
to sit down and think, Gee, what do I need
to do better? What do I need to keep doing,
and what do I need to stop doing? And it's
the same process we've got here and I'm confident that
you put fifty three of them together and you'll you'll
get a great outcome.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
To Nicola Mansbread CEO of Crusaders, or Rob Penny as
his job going in the twenty twenty five Super Rugby
specific season, was there anything surprising to you, Colin that
really stood out?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I think not really. There was probably such our.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
In season work that we did that talked about some
of the things we could get better at in season,
almost reinforced strongly at the end of the season. I
think the preseason tour we won't do one in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Just quietly, yes, thank you, good move, well done. I
thought that when the Crusaders after the earthquake went to
the other side of the world, it cost them a
title because they'd run out of steam by the time
they got to Queensland. That's just a personal thing, Colin,
but thank you. You're not going back this year, brilliant,
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
I think the thing to remember though is that ironically
there were a lot of lessons from that were really helpful.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So what you'll see is in some of the younger.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Athletes that toured with US preseason this season will probably
end up great Crusaders in time. I won't mention an
athlete who was our academy system, came with us on tour,
didn't feature in our roster of fifty this year, but
I think he learned a lot about how to behave
like a professional athlete and in a few years time,
(06:18):
you know, he'll probably be getting fifty or sixty games
on his belt. But it also helped us with connections
from a professional development perspective, both for athletes and coaches.
But you're right that I think the disjoint that was evident,
it was commented on frequently, meant that the benefit didn't
outweigh the consequence was redoct thing in terms of titles.
So I don't think that takes it off the table
(06:41):
and future. It just means if we do it that
there's you know, we have to do it much better.
But that was one There were nothing substantives that you
would go, oh that that was a real shock to me.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
But there are lots of little things that.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
You go, oh, yeah, actually that grinds my gears, and
maybe we should have you know, as soon as it
grinds your years to deal with it, don't don't let
it grind for too long.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
The fans, some of them will have to be calmed
down because I'm sure there's a group in the Crusader's
catchment area that going, hey, four wins in a year
isn't good enough. Someone's head has to roll. So what
do you say to the disgruntled fan base, Colin Well.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
I think the first thing, Darsie is absolutely we want
them disgruntled, because if four winds and ten losses was acceptable,
that then you know that's not right.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
We play and our players play to represent. They represent
the Crusaders in the Crusaders region. That's that's who they
played for.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
So they are going to be extremely disappointed or sorry,
we all are extremely disappointed in four winds and ten losses.
I think in terms of one of the reporters came back,
report authors came back and said, just you've got to
keep context when you're making your decisions and be careful
about making a bad decision without context. So they reminded
(08:07):
us that in a competition where there were more fourteen
point plus results this year than there have been in
the competition for quite some time, notwithstanding people saw the
competition is even we lost half of those ten by
less than five points or five points or left on
points differential.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
We ended up about six, I think.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And when you look at the closing minute losses Chiefs
round one, Hurricanes round four, Warratas round eight, Brumby's round thirteen.
You know those close out moments that traditionally we would
have we would have won. If they were wins, we
would be having a different conversation now and people would
(08:51):
be more forgiving of the rebuild.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Now. We're not making excuses. We want to win those.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
I think when you look at breadth and depth of
availability and therefore the ability for the coaches to put
together consistent.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Combinations, we can weak out. That goes some way to
explaining that performance. So it's not an excuse.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
We are brutally real about where we're at and where
we need to be.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
But we're confident we do these fifty three things and
it'll be a.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Different, different result next year, and you know we're planning
on winning a championship next year.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And finally, cole Man's been CEO of the Crutados. Thanks
very much for your time. How's Rob Penny taken all
of this?
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Rob is if I think the way he handled himself
last year and the way to the world on his shoulders.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Internally, you wouldn't have known the way he conducted himself.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
And I think he's won the admiration of staff, players
and management alike about the way he conducted himself last year.
You know, one high profile I was going to say,
you can't avoid that, and you know, and he's acknowledged that.
But it's fair to say he's done a pre good job.
(10:07):
He is so focused on the next legacy that it's
it's motivating to see. Actually, it's very, very motivating to see,
very very very focused on the next legacy, very focused
on serving the playing group and the coaching group to
make sure we get the best out of beast, out
(10:28):
of this review and best out of what we've learned
this year.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks
that'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk Z'B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We now have a Colin Man's Bridge on the program
and we're talking about the review that decided that well,
Rob Penny is not going anywhere. He's sticking on for
the twenty twenty five season. No comment will be made
around twenty six and beyond. It's all about next year.
Colin joins us now and Good Evening. Colin looked at
the review, I'm presuming put the season under a very
(00:38):
serious microscope.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
It was.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It was a very important process.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
It was Darcy.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yeah, I think, as you know, we got We do
a review every year, so that's that's not unusual to
do a postseason review, and we'll always talk to players, coaches,
staff and get sort of calibrate views across the whole place.
This year we did a little bit of external stuff
as we sometimes do historically, so we had richardung In
(01:06):
from who's done Olympic campaign reviews for New Zealand and
Great Britain before, and we went to GameLine as well,
and both of them came to a similar conclusion, which
was that there's lots of things you could do, but
you are changing a coach, isn't going to be the
isn't going to be the answer?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
What premand set up though? For these two consultants, What
did you want to achieve? What did you tell them
to look at specifically or was it more of a
take a good look, what do you get?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well? That's definitely with Richard's done.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
He's done three Olympic campaign reviews for Great Britain, he's
done five with the New Zealand Olympic team.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
He's done work with New Zealand rank and he's done
cycling New Zealand reviews.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
And basically it was we're doing a campaign review, we
want to understand what went well, what didn't go well,
what do we need to do And we weren't explicit
asking about the coach, but obviously, you know, coaching was
part of that insight that we were looking for. So
(02:11):
he spoke to or he led a review with all
of the staff, front and back office, coaches, management players,
and then we used game Line to sort of externally
give us an external assessment of what should we have
done and how did we do based on their proprietary models,
(02:33):
And both came back and neither.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Suggested that we should change the coaching.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
So what form did the review come back to you in?
Was there a series of suggestions could do better? You
failed at this, but you did good here? What did
you actually get back? What did you even have to
pick through with the board before he decided to retain.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Rob So there was I think there was fifty three recommendations,
and some of them were smaller, some of them were bigger,
And that was a synthesis of probably you know, many
many more conversations in fifty three, but the syens ofus
of that was fifty three recommendations. In terms of the
(03:14):
game line stuff. It probably came back to almost giving
us a sense of where we could have been with
the roster that we had contracted versus where we ended
up being with the roster that we ended up having
to deal.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
With throughout the year.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
And so there's fifty three bits of work for us
to do basically.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Now, none of them are.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Groundbreaking or major in of themselves, but you had the
fifty three together, and we're confident that's going to make
a difference to our twenty twenty five season.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You said you're not going to tell everybody what they are,
Maybe you do it to the fans that on pain
of death, you're not going through because you can't let
the opposition know exactly what's going on. But like, out
of those fifty three, and many of them are procedurals
that only small adjustments, how's it been taken by Rob
and the coaches and the players some of the mad
(04:06):
action items that you must address.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Well, I think that's the thing that there's something there
for everyone.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
When you've got fifty three, there's obviously something for everyone,
and so and some of it's you know, it's not
fifty three not very important things, but they're just they're
not fifty three grenade type issues there.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
They might be around communication, they might be around process,
they might be around lots of little things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So and there is something for everyone. There's something for
the CEO, there's something for most people in the organization.
And so we'll work our way through those.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And it's a little bit like doing a match review.
You want your players at the end of each game
to sit down and think, Gee, what do I need
to do better? What do I need to keep doing,
and what do I need to stop doing? And it's
the same process we've got here and I'm confident that
you put fifty three of them together and you'll you'll
get a great outcome.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
To Nicola Mansbread CEO of Crusaders, or Rob Penny as
his job going in the twenty twenty five Super Rugby
specific season, was there anything surprising to you, Colin that
really stood out?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I think not really. There was probably such our.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
In season work that we did that talked about some
of the things we could get better at in season,
almost reinforced strongly at the end of the season. I
think the preseason tour we won't do one in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Just quietly, yes, thank you, good move, well done. I
thought that when the Crusaders after the earthquake went to
the other side of the world, it cost them a
title because they'd run out of steam by the time
they got to Queensland. That's just a personal thing, Colin,
but thank you. You're not going back this year, brilliant,
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
I think the thing to remember though is that ironically
there were a lot of lessons from that were really helpful.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So what you'll see is in some of the younger.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Athletes that toured with US preseason this season will probably
end up great Crusaders in time. I won't mention an
athlete who was our academy system, came with us on tour,
didn't feature in our roster of fifty this year, but
I think he learned a lot about how to behave
like a professional athlete and in a few years time,
(06:18):
you know, he'll probably be getting fifty or sixty games
on his belt. But it also helped us with connections
from a professional development perspective, both for athletes and coaches.
But you're right that I think the disjoint that was evident,
it was commented on frequently, meant that the benefit didn't
outweigh the consequence was redoct thing in terms of titles.
So I don't think that takes it off the table
(06:41):
and future. It just means if we do it that
there's you know, we have to do it much better.
But that was one There were nothing substantives that you
would go, oh that that was a real shock to me.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
But there are lots of little things that.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
You go, oh, yeah, actually that grinds my gears, and
maybe we should have you know, as soon as it
grinds your years to deal with it, don't don't let
it grind for too long.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
The fans, some of them will have to be calmed
down because I'm sure there's a group in the Crusader's
catchment area that going, hey, four wins in a year
isn't good enough. Someone's head has to roll. So what
do you say to the disgruntled fan base, Colin Well.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
I think the first thing, Darsie is absolutely we want
them disgruntled, because if four winds and ten losses was acceptable,
that then you know that's not right.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
We play and our players play to represent. They represent
the Crusaders in the Crusaders region. That's that's who they
played for.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
So they are going to be extremely disappointed or sorry,
we all are extremely disappointed in four winds and ten losses.
I think in terms of one of the reporters came back,
report authors came back and said, just you've got to
keep context when you're making your decisions and be careful
about making a bad decision without context. So they reminded
(08:07):
us that in a competition where there were more fourteen
point plus results this year than there have been in
the competition for quite some time, notwithstanding people saw the
competition is even we lost half of those ten by
less than five points or five points or left on
points differential.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
We ended up about six, I think.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And when you look at the closing minute losses Chiefs
round one, Hurricanes round four, Warratas round eight, Brumby's round thirteen.
You know those close out moments that traditionally we would
have we would have won. If they were wins, we
would be having a different conversation now and people would
(08:51):
be more forgiving of the rebuild.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Now. We're not making excuses. We want to win those.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
I think when you look at breadth and depth of
availability and therefore the ability for the coaches to put
together consistent.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Combinations, we can weak out. That goes some way to
explaining that performance. So it's not an excuse.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
We are brutally real about where we're at and where
we need to be.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
But we're confident we do these fifty three things and
it'll be a.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Different, different result next year, and you know we're planning
on winning a championship next year.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And finally, cole Man's been CEO of the Crutados. Thanks
very much for your time. How's Rob Penny taken all
of this?
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Rob is if I think the way he handled himself
last year and the way to the world on his shoulders.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Internally, you wouldn't have known the way he conducted himself.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
And I think he's won the admiration of staff, players
and management alike about the way he conducted himself last year.
You know, one high profile I was going to say,
you can't avoid that, and you know, and he's acknowledged that.
But it's fair to say he's done a pre good job.
(10:07):
He is so focused on the next legacy that it's
it's motivating to see. Actually, it's very, very motivating to see,
very very very focused on the next legacy, very focused
on serving the playing group and the coaching group to
make sure we get the best out of beast, out
(10:28):
of this review and best out of what we've learned
this year.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks
that'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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