August 22, 2024 • 43 mins
D'Arcy Waldegrave returns to recap an exciting week in the world of sports! Highlights for tonight include:
Gregor Paul - New Zealand Herald Rugby Writer - On the sudden departure of Leon MacDonald from the All Blacks.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good evening and welcome, thanks for tuning in. My name's
Darcy Audergrave. This is sports Talk said in the name right,
we talk about sport from now through it until eight o'clock.
I want to say we, I mean you myself, and
we sprinkle the old guest and because we can. Oh
(00:54):
e one hundred and eighty ten eighty that is the
free fund number nation wide nineteen nineteen. That is ZBZB.
That is the text line or cost your steam to
text charge. But that's good, you can afford it. There
is only one subject to and that was the oh
my gosh moment when we all found out that rang
(01:14):
Ian Raser had split up. Assistant coach Lea McDonald walked
from the all black setup just before they got on
the plane to take off to the republic A. We'll
talk about that with Gregor Paul New Zealand held a
Rugby writer. The developments around the resignation, what the reasons
(01:39):
possibly could be. There are thousands, all right, that's going
over the top, but there are so many. Can't put
my finger on any one of them, particularly it's truth
amount a number of these reasons. Something stinks. I'm not
quite sure what it is, but we'll talk about that
(01:59):
with Gregor Paul shortly up after that, we'll take your
calls on a eight hundred and eighty ten eighty looking
forward to this, but before that, before we go anywhere
here that let's get nice and close to this Sport
today and in sports today, Mike dropped moment from Leo McDonald,
(02:19):
but not a mic in sight. The All Wacks assistant
coaches up sticks and fled after an undisclosed issue between
him self and head coach Raisor Robertson. Raiser had a
press conference, I don't eat, just kept storm, no mic
at all, but a.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Sausage he had of a coach. You know, he's a
great job with the Blues. Like when you ever expected
to get to this point, I hadn't foreseen it. Otherwise
I wouldn't have probably gone down that line. But as
we got into the coach and we realized that with
the rugby philosophies and just the way we click and
see the game is a little bit different now.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Edna McCarty has been selected for the Silver Ferns squad
proving ageism is definitely not a thing at netball HQ.
Dame Noline Todua outlines the reasoning behind the selection.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
And I'm not too sure that's because of your maturity
of China to meet people, torment shooters and put you know,
massive dominance underneath the post. So she showed that once
again when she was in trial.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, that's right. When you get older, you really enjoyed
tormenting people. You're right on the spot there a let's
move to golf now. Lydia Co is gearing up for
another crack at a major. The thrice multi metal Olympic
medalist doesn't know how long before she walks from the game,
but she's definitely got more appointments with the bloody media.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
You know, it's kind of been go, go go since
the Olympics, so I haven't really had a lot of
time to think about everything, and I don't want to
rush into any decisions. But no, this is not my
last press conference.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Fantastic, fantastic, that's what we want to know. Nothing to
do with the golf itself. Are you coming back to
see us? And soon is booked to play back in
New Zealand again. The woman in breakthrough package has got
more than that. Yeah, I know, Tennis Club in a
new year plan this season.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
I had a great experience and a great time at
the ASB this year, you know, just the amazing vibrans
and the energy and all the people in the organization.
So I'm super super excited to be able to play.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It again, and we're super excited too.
Speaker 7 (04:24):
And that's sport today.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Leon's a really good man, a good person, a really
good coach. I'm standing here because we come to a
mutual agreement which we feel it's the best for the
for the All Blacks moving forward. That he steps away
wasn't mental start out this way, but this is where
we've got to.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Huge news today in the world of All Blacks Rugby,
on the eve of then disappearing to what is going
to be a very very hard test of their resolve
and skill over in South Africa, assistant coach of the
All Blacks, Leon McDonald has walked from the camp. We're
joined now by Gregor Paul, respected long time at rugby
writer on the Herald. Gregor, welcome to the program. Did
(05:09):
you see that one coming?
Speaker 7 (05:11):
Not at this particular juncture.
Speaker 8 (05:14):
No, Darcy, I didn't I would be lying through my
teeth if I'd told you that I thought that would
be an announcement being made today or any time in
the near future. I would, however, say, I'm not overly
surprised that that Leon and Raiser are not connecting all
(05:37):
that Well, that bit doesn't necessarily surprise me, because I
think there's a little bit of history here. I've always
had a little skeptical sense about how a lyne these
two were. They worked together at the Crusaders, and then
they didn't work together at the Crusaders, you may recall.
So the fact that they've found that they're not on
the same page isn't a surprise. But the fact that
(05:58):
they've arrived at that point barely four or five weeks
into the season, Wow, I mean, how could they not
have worked out that they were not compatible?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, the release says they've been talking about this for weeks,
so something happened or they got a sense of it
and tried to iron it out before South Africa. Because
the timing is bizarre, it's not the ideal timing. Before
you go on, as I said before, what is an
extraordinary important to it. It's going to I'd say, make
(06:29):
or break Raiser's career. But it's right up there, isn't it,
And they choose now to.
Speaker 8 (06:33):
Split, well, yeah, look, it's that bit's genuinely fascinating. The
fact that they've been in discussions apparently for the last
two or three weeks makes me wonder this would suggest
that they've been in conflict or not necessarily been working
well together almost from day one. Really, when you look
(06:55):
at the timing and the limited time the All Blacks
have had together, you would suspect here that this has
been a relationship that's never been right. Once they got
up and running and got their hands on the players,
I mean, presumably in the process of selecting the team,
through the Super Rugby season, planning the season, none of
the problems or cracks that have appeared in the relationship
(07:17):
were presumably not prevalent to either of them at that stage.
And it's only now that they've come together and they're
on the training ground, as it were, and the pressure
of being together or putting a team on the park
or preparing a team.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
Has found out that while we're wildly.
Speaker 8 (07:33):
Incompatible, we're clearly reached a point of an unresolvable relationship
breakdown or a professional relationship breakdown, and that to me
is well, it's either a staggering failure of due diligence
that they didn't realize that they were going to get
to that point, or something has happened inside that camp
(07:55):
that has made one or both of them realize that
they're really not the people that they thought they were,
or they're not the coaches that they both thought that
they were.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
When you look at that, and you know that in
the press release, nothing really has been offered as to
the cause of the split, it creates a vacuum gring
of Paul. When a vacuum is created, the theories come
out everywhere and they get sucked into said vacuum. So
they're asking for a lot of people out there to
(08:27):
start conjecture around what's actually going on within the camp
and in the heads and of the players and the coaches.
I mean, that's pretty dangerous posity to be in.
Speaker 7 (08:37):
Well, it is.
Speaker 8 (08:38):
I guess the alternative though, is that, you know what
was the alternative, Darcy? They could go with the ubiquitous.
You know, Leon has left for family reasons. You know,
he wants to spend more time at home, which would
have been equally suspects. You know, five weeks into the season,
we'd have been having even more questions. So a little
bit of cuos I suppose that they haven't shied away
(09:02):
from at least confronting the big picture term that you know,
there's there's professional tension between them that they weren't on
the same page professionally. Now, fair play for them for
doing that, but they're probably stuck for legal reasons and
all sorts of reasons of why they're not going to
(09:22):
get into the nitty gritty the exact circumstances by which
those two started to deviate.
Speaker 7 (09:29):
And you're right, we will speculate. I don't know how
accurate any of us will ever be though, without.
Speaker 8 (09:36):
Having that inside knowledge, but they're probably I suspect a
couple of areas that you could look at, whether they
were aligned on selection about of players, the different views
about players, you know, were they playing the type of
rugby that Leon thought they were going to be playing,
or I don't know, has has there been some kind
of highly specific moment that has made Leon think I'm
(10:01):
not sure if I'm the right guy for this job.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
The ball that he wasn't quoted or at a quote
attributed to him in that release. That also to me,
it takes my interest was normally there's a something from
the outgoing personality, where it be a player, coach, whatever,
something it sees. Look, I'm not going as you mentioned before,
there was nothing in there, and that was glaringly obvious
(10:26):
in its absence.
Speaker 8 (10:28):
Yeah, you know, because when you're reading about a mutual
decision has made, it doesn't feel overly mutual when you
don't hear from the other party, you know what I mean,
Like you would normally have an agreed statement that both
parties would make to no matter what has happened. If
you're going to publicly state as a mutual agreement, then
you would typically have both parties confirming wishing each other
(10:51):
all the best, saying, look, you know we tried, hasn't
worked out, but all the best to the all blacks
and ditto. You'd expect the same, you know, from razorback
to Leon, which we got, but we didn't get Leon's
version of events or his voice in the story, and
he's not been available to the media to speak, so
again we'd have to you know, we will inevitably speculate
(11:12):
a little bit. Was it as mutual as it appears,
did Leon walk out or was Leon kind of walking
out and got pushed out together at the same time.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
We want not the answer.
Speaker 8 (11:23):
Because I suspect they'll be fairly tight legal conditions around
his departure that will prevent too much more being said.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I'll expect knowing you that, Gregor Paul, and a few
years time you'll be all writing the book around it.
I've seen it happen before you get in there. How
upseeating is this gregapool for the actual players themselves, because
this is all sideline stuff. We want to know how
they're going to perform in South Africa. This is as
massive as I keep saying. So as far as this tumult,
(11:52):
how does that affect the playing staff on the play
on the way over there?
Speaker 8 (11:56):
Well, you'd have to wonder if they've reached the point
where Razor has decided that he doesn't want to take
Leon with him to soth Africa and then they need
to part company. You would have to imagine that some
of the tension in that relationship has been apparent to
the players. You'd have to believe that, you know, I
(12:18):
think in any workplace, if you're conscious of the fact
that there are two managers who are not connecting well,
who are not aligned. We've probably all seen it in
our own workplace in Darcy, where you're conscious of that
and it drives a bit of tension and a bit
of uncertainty and you know that it's not the right
thing for the organization when you get to that point.
So presumably the players, while they may be unsettled by
(12:40):
what has happened, if it was overtly impacting on the
training ground or creating a level of toxicity or awkwardness
in the environment, they will probably embrace the fact, and
this is not personal, but they will embrace the fact
that whatever the problem has been, it is being dealt with.
And a bit of cute ofs to the Old Blacks
(13:01):
or to Raiser and to New Zealand Rugby here because
they've obviously decided that this is not in the team's
best interest to try to patch this up. Whatever the
problem is. They've decided it's unresolvable. We need to act now,
We need to act decisively and quickly. And while it
will be on settling for the team to get on
the plane with that big change having happened, it's probably
(13:24):
ultimately in the longer term or even in the shorter term,
a better option to deal with that quickly and effectively
get it out of the way, recalibrate over in South Africa,
because I don't think it'll be as big an adjustment
because they've got a fairly large coaching team.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Fairly large wow, sorry, carry on.
Speaker 8 (13:45):
They've got Timothy Ellison and Scott Hansen who will take
over the duties of Leo McDonald's.
Speaker 7 (13:51):
So it's not as if.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
You know, you're suddenly going from you know who, and
earth are we going to have dealing with that? There's also,
to be honest, there's also been a sense of are
they overpopulated in the coaching department anyway? Was it a
little bit of too many coaches getting in each other's way?
Speaker 7 (14:06):
Was that something Leon was feeling.
Speaker 8 (14:08):
Was he feeling a little threatened because Tannessey Ellison was
a kind of late arrival to that coaching group and
his role appeared to be expanding a little bit in
terms of the amount of time he was spending with
the team.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
I mean, all of these factors play. I think they've.
Speaker 8 (14:21):
Probably taken a view that they're not going to be
detrimentally impacted or going to South Africa. Light on coaching
personnel so they'll feel that they'll be able to handle,
you know, that side of things without too much impact.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Forget the riffs call, you make the call. On Sports
Talk on your home of Sports News Talks.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's twenty minutes after seven. Gregor Paul, the rugby writer
Ford New Zealand Harold are talking about the strange, the
unusual occurrence where coaching staff of being torn asunder ahead
of huge Test Series two matches in the Republic. Just
before they get on the plane, Liam Donald goes, yeah, nah,
(15:08):
I'm out, whoa what happens now? There are so many
theories floating around. Trust me, I've caught a lot of
people today. Have you got any inside word? Do you
have a line? What do you know? And there's been
all sorts of murmurings around, all sorts of possibilities, but
nothing defined, nothing confirmed. Oh eight one hundred and eighty
(15:32):
ten eighty. I'd love to hear from you on this.
I'll tell you what I think here. Something stinks. I
don't like to think I've got a sixth sense, but
you get a feeling when you listen to somebody and
you hear their excuses, you hear what they have to say,
(15:52):
how they shape the disconnect and your BS me to
starts flashing, not saying them old. But it been around
a while, you've heard things before. That's that's something that
just does not ring about it. And for me, the
biggest flag, the biggest alot in this We discussed that
(16:12):
with Gregor Paul was the lack of Leon McDonald in
that press release. That to me, that silence made a
huge noise. If it is by mutual agreement, if this
is someone's written a conscious uncoupling, thank.
Speaker 7 (16:31):
You very much for that.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
In the case, surely both parties would say something that
even maybe make it up and say, look, Lee, if
you don't want to say anything, can we at least
say Leon says, it's been great. I've loved being part
of the All Blacks. Unfortunately it can no longer carry
on in this vein and you know, sadly I have
to leave, but I wish you all the best for
South Africa. Thanks very much for a great time or
(16:56):
something of badilk. That's what you normally get, right and
these press releases, what do we get from the All
Blacks today? Nothing? Not one comment? Why was there not
one comment? Hey, I'm making this up, by the way,
this but this is we're not making up. This is
what I think Leon. We're gonna write a you know,
(17:17):
thanks for coming. No, don't you dare. I don't like this.
I'm out. Don't even mention me. That's why there's been
no comment. God tell me I'm wrong. That to me
in itself, I go, something's not right here. Boys, And
then you listen to the press conference and listen to Lendram.
You listen to Scott robertson something is amiss, something does
(17:40):
not work. Let's talk more about that next oh, eight
hundred eighty ten eighty. The lines are open. It's been
a wobbly old start for Scott robertson the commence his
apparent four year All Black coaching career. This is newstalks there,
b It's twenty four minutes after seven, So keep.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
On kissing, and I don't want to have some anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
You hear it from the biggest names in sports men,
have your say on eighty Sports Talk on your home
of sports news Talks.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
It be.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
When he's dragging, you're thinking about me, when you're riding
where he's damning you miss sports Talk, care and news
Talk to EB twenty second August it is. I'm Darcy
looking forward to your calls on this rangyv erasor issue.
Speaker 7 (18:33):
Eighty.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Make it count. Let's uh oh make Chris out of
Australia High there.
Speaker 9 (18:39):
How do you do?
Speaker 7 (18:40):
Mate?
Speaker 9 (18:40):
This is an absolute shocker, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Why didn't see it coming? Neither did gregor Paul? Well,
well what what? When I first heard the news rolling
into work, I'm like, Okay, there's the story for you.
It's fascinating, not.
Speaker 9 (18:53):
Just the story, the whole show, you know. I was
thinking about it. I was like, why would someone quit,
you know, or be pushed five weeks into what was
meant to be a four year cam pain And I'm
thinking that because we've had two head coaches. Rais has
done a lot of titles with the Crusaders, and Leon
(19:15):
built the Blues back to where they should be, and
it's crudos to him, but I'm thinking the head butting.
Raises said on the radio a few weeks ago that
there's been some really robust discussions about selections, and I
was thinking to myself, I was like, well, if you're
all all that coaches, you should all be thinking relatively similar.
(19:37):
So when I put that comment with this, now it
makes sense Leon has been challenging Raider when Ras has
got the top job, and Leon being a head coach,
he's been butting heads with another head coach. So I'm
thinking that there's a little bit of a a bit
of a headbanging that's gone on and it's got to
the point where it's untenable.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Plainly, it's untenable because he walked only a week out
from South Africa. That's so untenable. You'd think, though, as
Gregor pointed out, that that have a rough idea this
was going to happen because they've been planning us for
a couple of years, they've worked together before. Look, people age,
people change things different, granted, but it does seem unusual
(20:22):
that this would occur at this particular juncture so early.
I mean, look, if they nipped it on the bug,
am I being too suspicious? Have they stagged the quest
and going this is not going to work. You've got
to go out, see lady, let's move on.
Speaker 9 (20:34):
And that's the thing is we've had defensive coaches that
have lost their jobs over the years and new people
come in and that's part of professional sport. But this
is so sudden, so early, there actually has to be
a proper explanation. So then you seal in public about
what actually happened because you know it's not This is
(20:57):
not normal in the All Blacks coaching realms. Normally, if
you're an assistant, you're waiting until the big boy goes
I'm tired of this job, and you leave and he
goes into it, right, so.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Kind of remember they gassed more and plum Tree to
basically save faster, didn't they pretty fast? I mean, you're
out mate, we need to save our guy.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
And then there was also I forget his name. He
was the center for White Hato years ago and he
was in the All Blacks Coaching panel as well. But Robinson,
I forget it, No, no, no, he's the big box now.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I know exactly you're talking about,
and it's escaping to carry on.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
Yeah, so I'm just I'm thinking, Okay, David Hill, No,
he was, he was a fly half as his friends
would say, uh, someone's going.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
To text, Someone's going to text him. But basically, you
smell a rat.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
To Chris, I smell a rat and this this has
to be more complex than you know. I just want
to spend time with my family.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, at least they didn't roll that out. I'll give
him that. I mean, that's good. As soon as I
say that, he got there's definitely something a mess here.
To me, raisor Robinson was he layered. He lathered the
praise on Leo McDonald right the way through. It was
only a six minute press conference. Great man, wonderful coach,
(22:26):
fantastic guy. I wis that keeps on going around and
around around it that. I mean, I'm sure he is,
But there was just too much there's something not there's
something there, Tom Ioway.
Speaker 10 (22:37):
Yeah, yeah, no, that sort of carry on vomits and
juicing when they say that I've retired for family reasons.
And thank god they didn't bring that out.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I think that's probably the only good thing out.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
Of this, isn't it.
Speaker 10 (22:51):
Yeah, chose a modicum of a little bit of decency.
But I'm finding it very difficult to like Raiser. And
that's what he's there to do to a certain extent,
is have good public relations. And I'll tell you what,
it's only very very shortly into it. The honeymoon is
(23:14):
saying to wear off pretty quick, get on.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
If there is this problem, this schism between these two
characters we know the coaches, and that to me, if
there's I'm trying to find good out of this, it's like, well,
actually on the boss, on the coach, this is my show.
If you don't like it, get out. It's shows some control,
it shows some I'm running this show, no one else,
(23:40):
my way or the highway. And maybe that didn't put
it so briefly. So there's an idea.
Speaker 10 (23:45):
Fair enough, fair enough, But wouldn't you okay, if he
was a if he was a third or fourth, or
he is a technical coach understanding, but this is this
is a second in command. He wouldn't you have chose
that man very very wisely had to get go and
I mean even raises appointment. It still how how he
(24:07):
dictated to the news on rugby union. You don't dictate
to those guys they tell you players and coaches, don't.
I just think it's yeah, if if I had to
hang out with one of them, I think it'll be
Liam McDonald at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Okay I I and thanks very much Tom for your time.
Did Gregor Paul say, it's staggering lack of due diligence.
I think that was summarizes what you said there. I'm
sure it was David Hill, part of that coaching staff
that kind of came and went, wasn't it tell me
I'm wrong? Maybe not?
Speaker 7 (24:45):
How are you very good?
Speaker 11 (24:48):
Does Gregor Paul have a TikTok account? Because like basically
everything he said, he's got no facts to back it up,
and I'm sick of listening to him. To be honest,
he absolutely spouted rubbish. He has no facts to say what.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I don't think. I don't think he stated anything saying
it was fact. He offered opinions, which is what I
asked him when I had him on, because there is
no fact behind that he said, this is what happened,
this is possibly what drove it. I don't know. I
don't think he stated in fact at all. Bit and
what upseat you?
Speaker 7 (25:25):
Well?
Speaker 11 (25:25):
He sounded like a dickhead mate, And before you start
issuing insults across the line on the show, can you
just justify?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Can you just tell me what upset you so much
and what you think he's lying about?
Speaker 11 (25:40):
Because I mean, basically, Leon McDonald nobody, you know he
he he moved away, and Raiser might have said, you know, look,
there's you know, there's a bit too much, there's not
enough room in the TP and so you know, Leon goes, look,
I'll go, well, you.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
See, but you don't know, do you? And I'd suggest
that you are further away from the All Blacks and
the final workings of rugby than Grega Paula is. So
wouldn't you listen to what he sees? He didn't make
any statements.
Speaker 11 (26:11):
Well, Grega paul isn't even a key with so look
I'm telling.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You I'm out of that. You don't drop that on me. Really,
he's not even a key. He's lived here for a
very very long time. He's written many many books on
the All Blacks. And when I challenged you as to
what you didn't like, you started stammering. So it feels
like a hate care and for you people out there,
stay going. He didn't agree that you said you hung
up on yip it's my show. Good dy Dan, how
(26:35):
are you good?
Speaker 12 (26:37):
A Darcy?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Here's a go oh fantastic? What's up?
Speaker 10 (26:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (26:42):
I think you some little up arm really, Darcy, when
you said it's either my way or the highway. But
I knew a coach who did that from two thousand
and one to two thousand and three, and he didn't
have much success. And you know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
But being dictatorial and being the boss, isn't that what
you're talking about? Mitchell?
Speaker 7 (27:12):
Right?
Speaker 13 (27:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
When you I think the show controls, show strength and
show that you are in charge. Sometimes you have to
behave in that manner and it doesn't necessarily work all
the time. But there's something about a leader that's very
sure of himself I think can reverberate, that can reverberate
(27:35):
really well through the team.
Speaker 12 (27:36):
Right, will it show out? And the two tests against
South Africa? Because now Raiser is under more pressure than
he ever has been. He basically has to put his
money where his mouth is.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Does this push more pressure on though?
Speaker 7 (27:55):
Dan?
Speaker 12 (27:57):
I would say so. I mean, you know afar as
in a management position and I sacked my two ic
and high expectations of the boss. Well, yeah, I would
say that would put a lot of pressure on me.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well I suppose that, yes, absolutely, get that. What about
the other way? What if they go over to South
Africa and destroy them? Does that suddenly justify what happened there.
I'm not saying that will happen, but what if.
Speaker 12 (28:26):
Yeah, that's a big what of Darcy, because I can't
see the A B's winning one game over South Africa,
not one. From what I've seen the spring box, they
are a level above the ABS. And you may say,
what about last week? If the AB's were any good
last week, they would have done in the second half
(28:48):
what they did in the first. But actually they lost
the second half.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And I think the South Africans Dan, thanks for your
call playing at home worthy adversaries. That's scary. And remember
they played in the rain and the swamp and the
cold when they beat up on Australia. Not first choice team,
it's still a very good choice team. So to come
home in a couple of weeks to relax and stretch
(29:13):
the legs and see the family and then the sun
and the hard ground, I'd say it's impossible, because it isn't.
It's came a rugby but pressure. Hello, hey, thanks very
much for saving me. Everybody possibly Scott McCleod, Darcy, Darcy,
it's Scott McCloud. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This
(29:33):
is News Talk ZB your call is still to come.
O eight hundred and eighty ten to eighty, I smell
a rat? Do you smell the same rodent? In this
story of the day where Leon McDonald has walked from
the All Blacks. I'm Darcy, Welcome to the Program's a
(29:57):
lie forty one Sports Talk Care and News Talk ZB
of course, keep coming.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
No.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Eight hundred eighty ten eighty the eraser, What on earth happened?
Do you smell of rodent? Graham?
Speaker 14 (30:15):
Hello, Hello, how are you guys today?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I'm very very good.
Speaker 14 (30:21):
Yeah, well it's all right. It's a bit blocked at
the moment, but yeah, I went all the time for
both Scott Robertson and lee On McDonald. I mean, they've
done a lot for rugby in this area and it's
a bit sad. I felt shocked when I arrived somewhere
today and the scores happened. Someone said I wanted the
(30:42):
All Black coaches stood is gone and I said, oh,
ha ha, And then I looked on the computer. Yeah,
I mean, I just think I think if Leo McDonald
had fronted, it probably would have been a lot more
they probably look I mean, it's rugby at the top
level now it's become very it's been political for you know,
(31:03):
since the eighties.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Really when he was there and it was no comment
anything in the release, surely that preaksure is and we go,
this is not normal what's happening here? By him staying silent,
that says too much.
Speaker 14 (31:16):
The obviously things that I mean, he left here in
two as you know, two eight beginning to two eighteen
and went to the Marcos.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
And then he went to have my more family time,
right you didn't want to do it any business, and
then his wife sold the business and then went to
the Blues of the family.
Speaker 14 (31:31):
Yeah, yeah, And that was so he's he didn't listen.
Leon's had an interesting to reven that point of view
was sort of sharp turns and that. But just another
caller said that Raiser didn't actually dictate to the rugby
union two years ago. The rest they invited him to
clear his desk at Rugby Park. That's pretty public knowledge
(31:53):
that the job was his. I just I just think
that gets leveled at Scott Robertson unfairly. I know.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's then what about now what happens here?
Speaker 14 (32:06):
Was that guy said that two calls ago. So I
just want to say that well. I mean, your guests
as good as mine. I mean things have obviously deteriorated
between them. That's the best I can do, because I'm
not going to make something up.
Speaker 7 (32:20):
Well, this is it.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And the problem is when you issue a statement and
there as an occurrence and it is in a vacuum,
the natural inclination for people is to fill the vacuum
with something, whatever it is.
Speaker 14 (32:33):
And nowadays the vacuum gets filled a lot more. It's
not just pub talk anymore. It's going to I mean,
this is a dream for social media and all the
rest of it. As soon as I heard it, I
knew that's what happens.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
So, yeah, this is not great. I'm not reveling in this.
I don't like this. So I've got a great deal
of respect and time for both characters, but I gotta
call it as I see it, and I don't like
what I see.
Speaker 13 (33:00):
Paul, Yeah, you go, dar see lot to unpack. To
be fair, I that the bloke who commented on Gregor
Paul he was out of line, but I get the
gist of what he was probably trying to say is
that in New Zealand there is really no proper journalism
(33:22):
going on someone should someone from ended to me or
the Herald or whatever you want to be called, should
have should have his heir to the ground and be
unpicking what's happened.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
But I think this has come as such a surprise
to so many people that there wasn't anything leaked out.
Nobody did know and what you've got, And I've talked
to a lot of people, either former rugby people, people
are involved at many levels, and journalists like as well,
going where did this come from? And no one can
definitively say what occurred. They can just go, well, we
(33:58):
thought about this, We thought about that. So I don't
think it's the fault of any anyone from staff or
Herald or anybody.
Speaker 13 (34:07):
My point is, My point is back in the day
we'd have had dedicated journalists, and I know COVID played
that part and that the scene has changed, but there's
no one really well.
Speaker 15 (34:19):
All.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I got to disagree with you on that one. We
did some incredible scoops from some fantastic journalists, Gregor paul
Are being one of them, Liam Napier. We get some
really good oil. I think you're living maybe in the past.
I mean, you want to prove that with something.
Speaker 13 (34:32):
Paul, Well, my point is this was a surprise to
all of us.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I'd say it was a surprise to most people.
Speaker 13 (34:40):
So are we yeah yeah, but a professional journalist that
shouldn't be a surprised if someone should have been getting
the good oil all the way through.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
But that means there's leaks, so that you were relying
on that as well. It's obviously been kicked right under
wraps that way, no one's found out. I mean, it's
something we don't know about. I politely agree to disagree
with you. I am able to disagree with you anyway.
So what was your point, Paul?
Speaker 13 (35:05):
My point is New Zealand Rugby have put a massive
amount of power in.
Speaker 9 (35:11):
Scott Robertson Dams.
Speaker 13 (35:12):
He took away two super Rugby coaches last year Jason
Holland and now McDonald. He's kind of almost destabilized the
super Rugby. You know the way the super Rugby stretcher works,
and all of a sudden, five minutes into it, he's
(35:34):
got rid of the guy he would have done the most.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Again, I don't know about destabilizing anything, because let's face it,
what does the NZ are you? They put the all
blacks at the top of everything, Dan, the frpedoes for
the rest, it's all about the All Blacks and that's
what it's all focused on. So I don't think they're
destabilizing anything. They're dragging people up, leaving holes for other
people to replace it with. Sorry, Paul, I don't agree
(35:58):
with a lot of your thoughts there, but that's cool.
Thanks for sharing them.
Speaker 16 (36:01):
David, how are you here?
Speaker 7 (36:04):
You go?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
It could be better?
Speaker 16 (36:07):
Hey, I can see this coming here soon. Maybe not
maybe a players actually instead of the coaches. But I
was talked to some friends. I think they're too structured,
like they've got too many, too many sort of ideas
and too many they're not doing this structure. The guy
talks on TV and halftime. The other coach, one.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Of the assistants on the on the All Blacks behalf Yeah, Ryan,
it does. Scott Hanson ass involved as well. I don't
know a team not to watch the half times safterrives
me mad.
Speaker 16 (36:51):
But they like they've got two by systems and they're
sort of I think it's like the sort of like
going to army really like so I think Scott Robinson
and Robinson's I'm sorry, Liam McDonald is a bit more cruisier,
a bit more. You know that we're talking about all
blacks here, and you know they need to have us
ever say themselves too.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
So I think I wonder if there's a case, David,
thanks very much for your time, that there are so
many cooks that the broth is inedible you just can't
stomach it. And maybe that was again maybe maybe maybe
it was brought up and that was part of a problem.
Like but we said it before and I'll say it again.
Scott Robertson's the coach. The bucks starts with him. Whether
(37:36):
you like it or not, you've got to respect that.
But I'm not happy with the NZI are leaving a
vacuum here and pretending like it's all just gonna go
away because it's not.
Speaker 7 (37:49):
Do better.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
There's ten to eight choosers.
Speaker 7 (37:57):
Please don't let me loser.
Speaker 11 (38:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It really was outstanding when it came out. Oh listen
it the car on the way home. No, I listened
to Marcus last Hollo normally do Let's go back to
the fine Steve, welcome to the show. What have you
got for us?
Speaker 17 (38:18):
Good evening, sir, how are you?
Speaker 7 (38:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 16 (38:20):
Well, but there's more than one route.
Speaker 17 (38:24):
I believe that dars He.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I think we're going to We're going to plague of them,
have we?
Speaker 17 (38:29):
I think so?
Speaker 7 (38:30):
So?
Speaker 17 (38:30):
I think so. And I'll tell you what. This may
sound a little bit funny, but I picked up on
something on said they at the Argentina Test with the
commentator Justin Marshall. He was asked questions and he did
not like mister Robinson at all, And that really surprised
me because I thought he was a great how I
(38:53):
of them, but he's really showed there's true colors on
said day mister Marshall, Well, so.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I mean you're hinting your nudgs against something. Steve obviously
don't want to get yourself in the situation going to
get sue. But what do you mean?
Speaker 17 (39:11):
Well, he was asked through that Tom Pierre at the
panel prior prior to the game, what happened, what happened
with the last game? Justin the coach not you didn't
speak about it for a micro sec and it just
said the coach, the coach. The problem why we lost
that team while we lost that Argentina testis mention and
(39:33):
being a real candivary man, I went wow, Wow, Justin
Marshall you're really.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Grounded, Steve. But but does that explain the tumult here
and what happened.
Speaker 17 (39:45):
The No, No, no that's not But what I'm saying
is that stupid than maybe what we're thinking it is?
Speaker 2 (39:52):
In my opinion, yeah, it probably is, because Steve, we
don't know because we've been given no information. McDonald hasn't spoken,
and you listen to raise it. Now, a lot of
time for Scott Robinson, you know that, right right from
the early days love what he does is coat a
lot of time for him. That his stand up was
uncomfortably strange. It didn't sit well at all. It was awkward,
(40:18):
it was strained. There was something not right about what
he was saying and how he's presenting. It didn't didn't
smell right. Conrad.
Speaker 15 (40:30):
Oh yeah, hi there, And look, look, I think you
were making an assumption that people have to work together.
I think it's a really good thing. They've got the
differences sorted out early on. I mean, what is the
I mean, if you're putting Razor, Razor should be the
guy in charge the end of story, right.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Plainly he is, because Leon's the one that's gone. And
I said that before. He's the one running the show
and he's the one who survived, so that yeah the
good sign.
Speaker 15 (40:53):
Exactly, and so yeah, I disagree with the last course
for example, if that's just too bad. If whether you
don't like well not, it doesn't matter. I mean you
give the coach for years, by the way, and then
the judgment is in November twenty twenty seven. I mean, look,
you know, I mean for me, I'm not that surprised.
I mean, what's going on with Christy? Are we going
(41:16):
to have Jordi Barrett and Iwaney a sin appearing at
the World Cup twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Seven Yuannie's bounced from center back to wing on back
to Sinda again. Christie's just being dropped cold out of nowhere.
What are those two guys got in common? They're both
blues players? Is the two are something there that they've
clashed about as simple as that? The selection well, well
I think it is.
Speaker 15 (41:38):
It's all about different selection philosophy and at the end
of the day, this is a fantastic thing they got.
So about the dog, I bet I've better hang up
Thames kid.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
It's okay, Yeah, I hope you don't get eaten alive.
You should feed that thing there could be trouble at mill.
It's rapidly approaching eight to clock mark slush up from
eight through until midnight of Marcus slush nights before that, though,
We've got a complete news, sport and weather package for you.
(42:07):
I couldn't read your text because, as you know, I
always leaned toward the sound of your voice. So many
conspiracies coming through. It's great people care, don't they they
really do? They climb in. I'll read this one out
because I find this quite amusing. That blessed to be positive.
It's clear that a coaching staff with no whack at
(42:27):
the representation is utterly dysfunctional. Thank you, Mulu kids, well done.
Look at that. Yeah, so many thoughts, so many theories,
but it's definitely a lot of fire underneath you all Blacks.
How they react? Well, we're going to find out in
just over a week's time. Still a bit whippy, isn't it, Lissen.
(42:50):
Thank you to that prodiser Andy Daffa, Thank you to
Gregor Paul, and thank you to all the callers and textans.
I'm done with water Grave, wishing are wonderful. Leaving good evening.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good evening and welcome, thanks for tuning in. My name's
Darcy Audergrave. This is sports Talk said in the name right,
we talk about sport from now through it until eight o'clock.
I want to say we, I mean you myself, and
we sprinkle the old guest and because we can. Oh
(00:54):
e one hundred and eighty ten eighty that is the
free fund number nation wide nineteen nineteen. That is ZBZB.
That is the text line or cost your steam to
text charge. But that's good, you can afford it. There
is only one subject to and that was the oh
my gosh moment when we all found out that rang
(01:14):
Ian Raser had split up. Assistant coach Lea McDonald walked
from the all black setup just before they got on
the plane to take off to the republic A. We'll
talk about that with Gregor Paul New Zealand held a
Rugby writer. The developments around the resignation, what the reasons
(01:39):
possibly could be. There are thousands, all right, that's going
over the top, but there are so many. Can't put
my finger on any one of them, particularly it's truth
amount a number of these reasons. Something stinks. I'm not
quite sure what it is, but we'll talk about that
(01:59):
with Gregor Paul shortly up after that, we'll take your
calls on a eight hundred and eighty ten eighty looking
forward to this, but before that, before we go anywhere
here that let's get nice and close to this Sport
today and in sports today, Mike dropped moment from Leo McDonald,
(02:19):
but not a mic in sight. The All Wacks assistant
coaches up sticks and fled after an undisclosed issue between
him self and head coach Raisor Robertson. Raiser had a
press conference, I don't eat, just kept storm, no mic
at all, but a.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Sausage he had of a coach. You know, he's a
great job with the Blues. Like when you ever expected
to get to this point, I hadn't foreseen it. Otherwise
I wouldn't have probably gone down that line. But as
we got into the coach and we realized that with
the rugby philosophies and just the way we click and
see the game is a little bit different now.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Edna McCarty has been selected for the Silver Ferns squad
proving ageism is definitely not a thing at netball HQ.
Dame Noline Todua outlines the reasoning behind the selection.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
And I'm not too sure that's because of your maturity
of China to meet people, torment shooters and put you know,
massive dominance underneath the post. So she showed that once
again when she was in trial.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, that's right. When you get older, you really enjoyed
tormenting people. You're right on the spot there a let's
move to golf now. Lydia Co is gearing up for
another crack at a major. The thrice multi metal Olympic
medalist doesn't know how long before she walks from the game,
but she's definitely got more appointments with the bloody media.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
You know, it's kind of been go, go go since
the Olympics, so I haven't really had a lot of
time to think about everything, and I don't want to
rush into any decisions. But no, this is not my
last press conference.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Fantastic, fantastic, that's what we want to know. Nothing to
do with the golf itself. Are you coming back to
see us? And soon is booked to play back in
New Zealand again. The woman in breakthrough package has got
more than that. Yeah, I know, Tennis Club in a
new year plan this season.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
I had a great experience and a great time at
the ASB this year, you know, just the amazing vibrans
and the energy and all the people in the organization.
So I'm super super excited to be able to play.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It again, and we're super excited too.
Speaker 7 (04:24):
And that's sport today.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Leon's a really good man, a good person, a really
good coach. I'm standing here because we come to a
mutual agreement which we feel it's the best for the
for the All Blacks moving forward. That he steps away
wasn't mental start out this way, but this is where
we've got to.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Huge news today in the world of All Blacks Rugby,
on the eve of then disappearing to what is going
to be a very very hard test of their resolve
and skill over in South Africa, assistant coach of the
All Blacks, Leon McDonald has walked from the camp. We're
joined now by Gregor Paul, respected long time at rugby
writer on the Herald. Gregor, welcome to the program. Did
(05:09):
you see that one coming?
Speaker 7 (05:11):
Not at this particular juncture.
Speaker 8 (05:14):
No, Darcy, I didn't I would be lying through my
teeth if I'd told you that I thought that would
be an announcement being made today or any time in
the near future. I would, however, say, I'm not overly
surprised that that Leon and Raiser are not connecting all
(05:37):
that Well, that bit doesn't necessarily surprise me, because I
think there's a little bit of history here. I've always
had a little skeptical sense about how a lyne these
two were. They worked together at the Crusaders, and then
they didn't work together at the Crusaders, you may recall.
So the fact that they've found that they're not on
the same page isn't a surprise. But the fact that
(05:58):
they've arrived at that point barely four or five weeks
into the season, Wow, I mean, how could they not
have worked out that they were not compatible?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, the release says they've been talking about this for weeks,
so something happened or they got a sense of it
and tried to iron it out before South Africa. Because
the timing is bizarre, it's not the ideal timing. Before
you go on, as I said before, what is an
extraordinary important to it. It's going to I'd say, make
(06:29):
or break Raiser's career. But it's right up there, isn't it,
And they choose now to.
Speaker 8 (06:33):
Split, well, yeah, look, it's that bit's genuinely fascinating. The
fact that they've been in discussions apparently for the last
two or three weeks makes me wonder this would suggest
that they've been in conflict or not necessarily been working
well together almost from day one. Really, when you look
(06:55):
at the timing and the limited time the All Blacks
have had together, you would suspect here that this has
been a relationship that's never been right. Once they got
up and running and got their hands on the players,
I mean, presumably in the process of selecting the team,
through the Super Rugby season, planning the season, none of
the problems or cracks that have appeared in the relationship
(07:17):
were presumably not prevalent to either of them at that stage.
And it's only now that they've come together and they're
on the training ground, as it were, and the pressure
of being together or putting a team on the park
or preparing a team.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
Has found out that while we're wildly.
Speaker 8 (07:33):
Incompatible, we're clearly reached a point of an unresolvable relationship
breakdown or a professional relationship breakdown, and that to me
is well, it's either a staggering failure of due diligence
that they didn't realize that they were going to get
to that point, or something has happened inside that camp
(07:55):
that has made one or both of them realize that
they're really not the people that they thought they were,
or they're not the coaches that they both thought that
they were.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
When you look at that, and you know that in
the press release, nothing really has been offered as to
the cause of the split, it creates a vacuum gring
of Paul. When a vacuum is created, the theories come
out everywhere and they get sucked into said vacuum. So
they're asking for a lot of people out there to
(08:27):
start conjecture around what's actually going on within the camp
and in the heads and of the players and the coaches.
I mean, that's pretty dangerous posity to be in.
Speaker 7 (08:37):
Well, it is.
Speaker 8 (08:38):
I guess the alternative though, is that, you know what
was the alternative, Darcy? They could go with the ubiquitous.
You know, Leon has left for family reasons. You know,
he wants to spend more time at home, which would
have been equally suspects. You know, five weeks into the season,
we'd have been having even more questions. So a little
bit of cuos I suppose that they haven't shied away
(09:02):
from at least confronting the big picture term that you know,
there's there's professional tension between them that they weren't on
the same page professionally. Now, fair play for them for
doing that, but they're probably stuck for legal reasons and
all sorts of reasons of why they're not going to
(09:22):
get into the nitty gritty the exact circumstances by which
those two started to deviate.
Speaker 7 (09:29):
And you're right, we will speculate. I don't know how
accurate any of us will ever be though, without.
Speaker 8 (09:36):
Having that inside knowledge, but they're probably I suspect a
couple of areas that you could look at, whether they
were aligned on selection about of players, the different views
about players, you know, were they playing the type of
rugby that Leon thought they were going to be playing,
or I don't know, has has there been some kind
of highly specific moment that has made Leon think I'm
(10:01):
not sure if I'm the right guy for this job.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
The ball that he wasn't quoted or at a quote
attributed to him in that release. That also to me,
it takes my interest was normally there's a something from
the outgoing personality, where it be a player, coach, whatever,
something it sees. Look, I'm not going as you mentioned before,
there was nothing in there, and that was glaringly obvious
(10:26):
in its absence.
Speaker 8 (10:28):
Yeah, you know, because when you're reading about a mutual
decision has made, it doesn't feel overly mutual when you
don't hear from the other party, you know what I mean,
Like you would normally have an agreed statement that both
parties would make to no matter what has happened. If
you're going to publicly state as a mutual agreement, then
you would typically have both parties confirming wishing each other
(10:51):
all the best, saying, look, you know we tried, hasn't
worked out, but all the best to the all blacks
and ditto. You'd expect the same, you know, from razorback
to Leon, which we got, but we didn't get Leon's
version of events or his voice in the story, and
he's not been available to the media to speak, so
again we'd have to you know, we will inevitably speculate
(11:12):
a little bit. Was it as mutual as it appears,
did Leon walk out or was Leon kind of walking
out and got pushed out together at the same time.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
We want not the answer.
Speaker 8 (11:23):
Because I suspect they'll be fairly tight legal conditions around
his departure that will prevent too much more being said.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I'll expect knowing you that, Gregor Paul, and a few
years time you'll be all writing the book around it.
I've seen it happen before you get in there. How
upseeating is this gregapool for the actual players themselves, because
this is all sideline stuff. We want to know how
they're going to perform in South Africa. This is as
massive as I keep saying. So as far as this tumult,
(11:52):
how does that affect the playing staff on the play
on the way over there?
Speaker 8 (11:56):
Well, you'd have to wonder if they've reached the point
where Razor has decided that he doesn't want to take
Leon with him to soth Africa and then they need
to part company. You would have to imagine that some
of the tension in that relationship has been apparent to
the players. You'd have to believe that, you know, I
(12:18):
think in any workplace, if you're conscious of the fact
that there are two managers who are not connecting well,
who are not aligned. We've probably all seen it in
our own workplace in Darcy, where you're conscious of that
and it drives a bit of tension and a bit
of uncertainty and you know that it's not the right
thing for the organization when you get to that point.
So presumably the players, while they may be unsettled by
(12:40):
what has happened, if it was overtly impacting on the
training ground or creating a level of toxicity or awkwardness
in the environment, they will probably embrace the fact, and
this is not personal, but they will embrace the fact
that whatever the problem has been, it is being dealt with.
And a bit of cute ofs to the Old Blacks
(13:01):
or to Raiser and to New Zealand Rugby here because
they've obviously decided that this is not in the team's
best interest to try to patch this up. Whatever the
problem is. They've decided it's unresolvable. We need to act now,
We need to act decisively and quickly. And while it
will be on settling for the team to get on
the plane with that big change having happened, it's probably
(13:24):
ultimately in the longer term or even in the shorter term,
a better option to deal with that quickly and effectively
get it out of the way, recalibrate over in South Africa,
because I don't think it'll be as big an adjustment
because they've got a fairly large coaching team.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Fairly large wow, sorry, carry on.
Speaker 8 (13:45):
They've got Timothy Ellison and Scott Hansen who will take
over the duties of Leo McDonald's.
Speaker 7 (13:51):
So it's not as if.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
You know, you're suddenly going from you know who, and
earth are we going to have dealing with that? There's also,
to be honest, there's also been a sense of are
they overpopulated in the coaching department anyway? Was it a
little bit of too many coaches getting in each other's way?
Speaker 7 (14:06):
Was that something Leon was feeling.
Speaker 8 (14:08):
Was he feeling a little threatened because Tannessey Ellison was
a kind of late arrival to that coaching group and
his role appeared to be expanding a little bit in
terms of the amount of time he was spending with
the team.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
I mean, all of these factors play. I think they've.
Speaker 8 (14:21):
Probably taken a view that they're not going to be
detrimentally impacted or going to South Africa. Light on coaching
personnel so they'll feel that they'll be able to handle,
you know, that side of things without too much impact.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Forget the riffs call, you make the call. On Sports
Talk on your home of Sports News Talks.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's twenty minutes after seven. Gregor Paul, the rugby writer
Ford New Zealand Harold are talking about the strange, the
unusual occurrence where coaching staff of being torn asunder ahead
of huge Test Series two matches in the Republic. Just
before they get on the plane, Liam Donald goes, yeah, nah,
(15:08):
I'm out, whoa what happens now? There are so many
theories floating around. Trust me, I've caught a lot of
people today. Have you got any inside word? Do you
have a line? What do you know? And there's been
all sorts of murmurings around, all sorts of possibilities, but
nothing defined, nothing confirmed. Oh eight one hundred and eighty
(15:32):
ten eighty. I'd love to hear from you on this.
I'll tell you what I think here. Something stinks. I
don't like to think I've got a sixth sense, but
you get a feeling when you listen to somebody and
you hear their excuses, you hear what they have to say,
(15:52):
how they shape the disconnect and your BS me to
starts flashing, not saying them old. But it been around
a while, you've heard things before. That's that's something that
just does not ring about it. And for me, the
biggest flag, the biggest alot in this We discussed that
(16:12):
with Gregor Paul was the lack of Leon McDonald in
that press release. That to me, that silence made a
huge noise. If it is by mutual agreement, if this
is someone's written a conscious uncoupling, thank.
Speaker 7 (16:31):
You very much for that.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
In the case, surely both parties would say something that
even maybe make it up and say, look, Lee, if
you don't want to say anything, can we at least
say Leon says, it's been great. I've loved being part
of the All Blacks. Unfortunately it can no longer carry
on in this vein and you know, sadly I have
to leave, but I wish you all the best for
South Africa. Thanks very much for a great time or
(16:56):
something of badilk. That's what you normally get, right and
these press releases, what do we get from the All
Blacks today? Nothing? Not one comment? Why was there not
one comment? Hey, I'm making this up, by the way,
this but this is we're not making up. This is
what I think Leon. We're gonna write a you know,
(17:17):
thanks for coming. No, don't you dare. I don't like this.
I'm out. Don't even mention me. That's why there's been
no comment. God tell me I'm wrong. That to me
in itself, I go, something's not right here. Boys, And
then you listen to the press conference and listen to Lendram.
You listen to Scott robertson something is amiss, something does
(17:40):
not work. Let's talk more about that next oh, eight
hundred eighty ten eighty. The lines are open. It's been
a wobbly old start for Scott robertson the commence his
apparent four year All Black coaching career. This is newstalks there,
b It's twenty four minutes after seven, So keep.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
On kissing, and I don't want to have some anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
You hear it from the biggest names in sports men,
have your say on eighty Sports Talk on your home
of sports news Talks.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
It be.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
When he's dragging, you're thinking about me, when you're riding
where he's damning you miss sports Talk, care and news
Talk to EB twenty second August it is. I'm Darcy
looking forward to your calls on this rangyv erasor issue.
Speaker 7 (18:33):
Eighty.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Make it count. Let's uh oh make Chris out of
Australia High there.
Speaker 9 (18:39):
How do you do?
Speaker 7 (18:40):
Mate?
Speaker 9 (18:40):
This is an absolute shocker, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Why didn't see it coming? Neither did gregor Paul? Well,
well what what? When I first heard the news rolling
into work, I'm like, Okay, there's the story for you.
It's fascinating, not.
Speaker 9 (18:53):
Just the story, the whole show, you know. I was
thinking about it. I was like, why would someone quit,
you know, or be pushed five weeks into what was
meant to be a four year cam pain And I'm
thinking that because we've had two head coaches. Rais has
done a lot of titles with the Crusaders, and Leon
(19:15):
built the Blues back to where they should be, and
it's crudos to him, but I'm thinking the head butting.
Raises said on the radio a few weeks ago that
there's been some really robust discussions about selections, and I
was thinking to myself, I was like, well, if you're
all all that coaches, you should all be thinking relatively similar.
(19:37):
So when I put that comment with this, now it
makes sense Leon has been challenging Raider when Ras has
got the top job, and Leon being a head coach,
he's been butting heads with another head coach. So I'm
thinking that there's a little bit of a a bit
of a headbanging that's gone on and it's got to
the point where it's untenable.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Plainly, it's untenable because he walked only a week out
from South Africa. That's so untenable. You'd think, though, as
Gregor pointed out, that that have a rough idea this
was going to happen because they've been planning us for
a couple of years, they've worked together before. Look, people age,
people change things different, granted, but it does seem unusual
(20:22):
that this would occur at this particular juncture so early.
I mean, look, if they nipped it on the bug,
am I being too suspicious? Have they stagged the quest
and going this is not going to work. You've got
to go out, see lady, let's move on.
Speaker 9 (20:34):
And that's the thing is we've had defensive coaches that
have lost their jobs over the years and new people
come in and that's part of professional sport. But this
is so sudden, so early, there actually has to be
a proper explanation. So then you seal in public about
what actually happened because you know it's not This is
(20:57):
not normal in the All Blacks coaching realms. Normally, if
you're an assistant, you're waiting until the big boy goes
I'm tired of this job, and you leave and he
goes into it, right, so.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Kind of remember they gassed more and plum Tree to
basically save faster, didn't they pretty fast? I mean, you're
out mate, we need to save our guy.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
And then there was also I forget his name. He
was the center for White Hato years ago and he
was in the All Blacks Coaching panel as well. But Robinson,
I forget it, No, no, no, he's the big box now.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I know exactly you're talking about,
and it's escaping to carry on.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
Yeah, so I'm just I'm thinking, Okay, David Hill, No,
he was, he was a fly half as his friends
would say, uh, someone's going.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
To text, Someone's going to text him. But basically, you
smell a rat.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
To Chris, I smell a rat and this this has
to be more complex than you know. I just want
to spend time with my family.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, at least they didn't roll that out. I'll give
him that. I mean, that's good. As soon as I
say that, he got there's definitely something a mess here.
To me, raisor Robinson was he layered. He lathered the
praise on Leo McDonald right the way through. It was
only a six minute press conference. Great man, wonderful coach,
(22:26):
fantastic guy. I wis that keeps on going around and
around around it that. I mean, I'm sure he is,
But there was just too much there's something not there's
something there, Tom Ioway.
Speaker 10 (22:37):
Yeah, yeah, no, that sort of carry on vomits and
juicing when they say that I've retired for family reasons.
And thank god they didn't bring that out.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I think that's probably the only good thing out.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
Of this, isn't it.
Speaker 10 (22:51):
Yeah, chose a modicum of a little bit of decency.
But I'm finding it very difficult to like Raiser. And
that's what he's there to do to a certain extent,
is have good public relations. And I'll tell you what,
it's only very very shortly into it. The honeymoon is
(23:14):
saying to wear off pretty quick, get on.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
If there is this problem, this schism between these two
characters we know the coaches, and that to me, if
there's I'm trying to find good out of this, it's like, well,
actually on the boss, on the coach, this is my show.
If you don't like it, get out. It's shows some control,
it shows some I'm running this show, no one else,
(23:40):
my way or the highway. And maybe that didn't put
it so briefly. So there's an idea.
Speaker 10 (23:45):
Fair enough, fair enough, But wouldn't you okay, if he
was a if he was a third or fourth, or
he is a technical coach understanding, but this is this
is a second in command. He wouldn't you have chose
that man very very wisely had to get go and
I mean even raises appointment. It still how how he
(24:07):
dictated to the news on rugby union. You don't dictate
to those guys they tell you players and coaches, don't.
I just think it's yeah, if if I had to
hang out with one of them, I think it'll be
Liam McDonald at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Okay I I and thanks very much Tom for your time.
Did Gregor Paul say, it's staggering lack of due diligence.
I think that was summarizes what you said there. I'm
sure it was David Hill, part of that coaching staff
that kind of came and went, wasn't it tell me
I'm wrong? Maybe not?
Speaker 7 (24:45):
How are you very good?
Speaker 11 (24:48):
Does Gregor Paul have a TikTok account? Because like basically
everything he said, he's got no facts to back it up,
and I'm sick of listening to him. To be honest,
he absolutely spouted rubbish. He has no facts to say what.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I don't think. I don't think he stated anything saying
it was fact. He offered opinions, which is what I
asked him when I had him on, because there is
no fact behind that he said, this is what happened,
this is possibly what drove it. I don't know. I
don't think he stated in fact at all. Bit and
what upseat you?
Speaker 7 (25:25):
Well?
Speaker 11 (25:25):
He sounded like a dickhead mate, And before you start
issuing insults across the line on the show, can you
just justify?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Can you just tell me what upset you so much
and what you think he's lying about?
Speaker 11 (25:40):
Because I mean, basically, Leon McDonald nobody, you know he
he he moved away, and Raiser might have said, you know, look,
there's you know, there's a bit too much, there's not
enough room in the TP and so you know, Leon goes, look,
I'll go, well, you.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
See, but you don't know, do you? And I'd suggest
that you are further away from the All Blacks and
the final workings of rugby than Grega Paula is. So
wouldn't you listen to what he sees? He didn't make
any statements.
Speaker 11 (26:11):
Well, Grega paul isn't even a key with so look
I'm telling.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You I'm out of that. You don't drop that on me. Really,
he's not even a key. He's lived here for a
very very long time. He's written many many books on
the All Blacks. And when I challenged you as to
what you didn't like, you started stammering. So it feels
like a hate care and for you people out there,
stay going. He didn't agree that you said you hung
up on yip it's my show. Good dy Dan, how
(26:35):
are you good?
Speaker 12 (26:37):
A Darcy?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Here's a go oh fantastic? What's up?
Speaker 10 (26:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (26:42):
I think you some little up arm really, Darcy, when
you said it's either my way or the highway. But
I knew a coach who did that from two thousand
and one to two thousand and three, and he didn't
have much success. And you know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
But being dictatorial and being the boss, isn't that what
you're talking about? Mitchell?
Speaker 7 (27:12):
Right?
Speaker 13 (27:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
When you I think the show controls, show strength and
show that you are in charge. Sometimes you have to
behave in that manner and it doesn't necessarily work all
the time. But there's something about a leader that's very
sure of himself I think can reverberate, that can reverberate
(27:35):
really well through the team.
Speaker 12 (27:36):
Right, will it show out? And the two tests against
South Africa? Because now Raiser is under more pressure than
he ever has been. He basically has to put his
money where his mouth is.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Does this push more pressure on though?
Speaker 7 (27:55):
Dan?
Speaker 12 (27:57):
I would say so. I mean, you know afar as
in a management position and I sacked my two ic
and high expectations of the boss. Well, yeah, I would
say that would put a lot of pressure on me.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well I suppose that, yes, absolutely, get that. What about
the other way? What if they go over to South
Africa and destroy them? Does that suddenly justify what happened there.
I'm not saying that will happen, but what if.
Speaker 12 (28:26):
Yeah, that's a big what of Darcy, because I can't
see the A B's winning one game over South Africa,
not one. From what I've seen the spring box, they
are a level above the ABS. And you may say,
what about last week? If the AB's were any good
last week, they would have done in the second half
(28:48):
what they did in the first. But actually they lost
the second half.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And I think the South Africans Dan, thanks for your
call playing at home worthy adversaries. That's scary. And remember
they played in the rain and the swamp and the
cold when they beat up on Australia. Not first choice team,
it's still a very good choice team. So to come
home in a couple of weeks to relax and stretch
(29:13):
the legs and see the family and then the sun
and the hard ground, I'd say it's impossible, because it isn't.
It's came a rugby but pressure. Hello, hey, thanks very
much for saving me. Everybody possibly Scott McCleod, Darcy, Darcy,
it's Scott McCloud. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This
(29:33):
is News Talk ZB your call is still to come.
O eight hundred and eighty ten to eighty, I smell
a rat? Do you smell the same rodent? In this
story of the day where Leon McDonald has walked from
the All Blacks. I'm Darcy, Welcome to the Program's a
(29:57):
lie forty one Sports Talk Care and News Talk ZB
of course, keep coming.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
No.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Eight hundred eighty ten eighty the eraser, What on earth happened?
Do you smell of rodent? Graham?
Speaker 14 (30:15):
Hello, Hello, how are you guys today?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I'm very very good.
Speaker 14 (30:21):
Yeah, well it's all right. It's a bit blocked at
the moment, but yeah, I went all the time for
both Scott Robertson and lee On McDonald. I mean, they've
done a lot for rugby in this area and it's
a bit sad. I felt shocked when I arrived somewhere
today and the scores happened. Someone said I wanted the
(30:42):
All Black coaches stood is gone and I said, oh,
ha ha, And then I looked on the computer. Yeah,
I mean, I just think I think if Leo McDonald
had fronted, it probably would have been a lot more
they probably look I mean, it's rugby at the top
level now it's become very it's been political for you know,
(31:03):
since the eighties.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Really when he was there and it was no comment
anything in the release, surely that preaksure is and we go,
this is not normal what's happening here? By him staying silent,
that says too much.
Speaker 14 (31:16):
The obviously things that I mean, he left here in
two as you know, two eight beginning to two eighteen
and went to the Marcos.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
And then he went to have my more family time,
right you didn't want to do it any business, and
then his wife sold the business and then went to
the Blues of the family.
Speaker 14 (31:31):
Yeah, yeah, And that was so he's he didn't listen.
Leon's had an interesting to reven that point of view
was sort of sharp turns and that. But just another
caller said that Raiser didn't actually dictate to the rugby
union two years ago. The rest they invited him to
clear his desk at Rugby Park. That's pretty public knowledge
(31:53):
that the job was his. I just I just think
that gets leveled at Scott Robertson unfairly. I know.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's then what about now what happens here?
Speaker 14 (32:06):
Was that guy said that two calls ago. So I
just want to say that well. I mean, your guests
as good as mine. I mean things have obviously deteriorated
between them. That's the best I can do, because I'm
not going to make something up.
Speaker 7 (32:20):
Well, this is it.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And the problem is when you issue a statement and
there as an occurrence and it is in a vacuum,
the natural inclination for people is to fill the vacuum
with something, whatever it is.
Speaker 14 (32:33):
And nowadays the vacuum gets filled a lot more. It's
not just pub talk anymore. It's going to I mean,
this is a dream for social media and all the
rest of it. As soon as I heard it, I
knew that's what happens.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
So, yeah, this is not great. I'm not reveling in this.
I don't like this. So I've got a great deal
of respect and time for both characters, but I gotta
call it as I see it, and I don't like
what I see.
Speaker 13 (33:00):
Paul, Yeah, you go, dar see lot to unpack. To
be fair, I that the bloke who commented on Gregor
Paul he was out of line, but I get the
gist of what he was probably trying to say is
that in New Zealand there is really no proper journalism
(33:22):
going on someone should someone from ended to me or
the Herald or whatever you want to be called, should
have should have his heir to the ground and be
unpicking what's happened.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
But I think this has come as such a surprise
to so many people that there wasn't anything leaked out.
Nobody did know and what you've got, And I've talked
to a lot of people, either former rugby people, people
are involved at many levels, and journalists like as well,
going where did this come from? And no one can
definitively say what occurred. They can just go, well, we
(33:58):
thought about this, We thought about that. So I don't
think it's the fault of any anyone from staff or
Herald or anybody.
Speaker 13 (34:07):
My point is, My point is back in the day
we'd have had dedicated journalists, and I know COVID played
that part and that the scene has changed, but there's
no one really well.
Speaker 15 (34:19):
All.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I got to disagree with you on that one. We
did some incredible scoops from some fantastic journalists, Gregor paul
Are being one of them, Liam Napier. We get some
really good oil. I think you're living maybe in the past.
I mean, you want to prove that with something.
Speaker 13 (34:32):
Paul, Well, my point is this was a surprise to
all of us.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I'd say it was a surprise to most people.
Speaker 13 (34:40):
So are we yeah yeah, but a professional journalist that
shouldn't be a surprised if someone should have been getting
the good oil all the way through.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
But that means there's leaks, so that you were relying
on that as well. It's obviously been kicked right under
wraps that way, no one's found out. I mean, it's
something we don't know about. I politely agree to disagree
with you. I am able to disagree with you anyway.
So what was your point, Paul?
Speaker 13 (35:05):
My point is New Zealand Rugby have put a massive
amount of power in.
Speaker 9 (35:11):
Scott Robertson Dams.
Speaker 13 (35:12):
He took away two super Rugby coaches last year Jason
Holland and now McDonald. He's kind of almost destabilized the
super Rugby. You know the way the super Rugby stretcher works,
and all of a sudden, five minutes into it, he's
(35:34):
got rid of the guy he would have done the most.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Again, I don't know about destabilizing anything, because let's face it,
what does the NZ are you? They put the all
blacks at the top of everything, Dan, the frpedoes for
the rest, it's all about the All Blacks and that's
what it's all focused on. So I don't think they're
destabilizing anything. They're dragging people up, leaving holes for other
people to replace it with. Sorry, Paul, I don't agree
(35:58):
with a lot of your thoughts there, but that's cool.
Thanks for sharing them.
Speaker 16 (36:01):
David, how are you here?
Speaker 7 (36:04):
You go?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
It could be better?
Speaker 16 (36:07):
Hey, I can see this coming here soon. Maybe not
maybe a players actually instead of the coaches. But I
was talked to some friends. I think they're too structured,
like they've got too many, too many sort of ideas
and too many they're not doing this structure. The guy
talks on TV and halftime. The other coach, one.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Of the assistants on the on the All Blacks behalf Yeah, Ryan,
it does. Scott Hanson ass involved as well. I don't
know a team not to watch the half times safterrives
me mad.
Speaker 16 (36:51):
But they like they've got two by systems and they're
sort of I think it's like the sort of like
going to army really like so I think Scott Robinson
and Robinson's I'm sorry, Liam McDonald is a bit more cruisier,
a bit more. You know that we're talking about all
blacks here, and you know they need to have us
ever say themselves too.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
So I think I wonder if there's a case, David,
thanks very much for your time, that there are so
many cooks that the broth is inedible you just can't
stomach it. And maybe that was again maybe maybe maybe
it was brought up and that was part of a problem.
Like but we said it before and I'll say it again.
Scott Robertson's the coach. The bucks starts with him. Whether
(37:36):
you like it or not, you've got to respect that.
But I'm not happy with the NZI are leaving a
vacuum here and pretending like it's all just gonna go
away because it's not.
Speaker 7 (37:49):
Do better.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
There's ten to eight choosers.
Speaker 7 (37:57):
Please don't let me loser.
Speaker 11 (38:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It really was outstanding when it came out. Oh listen
it the car on the way home. No, I listened
to Marcus last Hollo normally do Let's go back to
the fine Steve, welcome to the show. What have you
got for us?
Speaker 17 (38:18):
Good evening, sir, how are you?
Speaker 7 (38:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 16 (38:20):
Well, but there's more than one route.
Speaker 17 (38:24):
I believe that dars He.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I think we're going to We're going to plague of them,
have we?
Speaker 17 (38:29):
I think so?
Speaker 7 (38:30):
So?
Speaker 17 (38:30):
I think so. And I'll tell you what. This may
sound a little bit funny, but I picked up on
something on said they at the Argentina Test with the
commentator Justin Marshall. He was asked questions and he did
not like mister Robinson at all, And that really surprised
me because I thought he was a great how I
(38:53):
of them, but he's really showed there's true colors on
said day mister Marshall, Well, so.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I mean you're hinting your nudgs against something. Steve obviously
don't want to get yourself in the situation going to
get sue. But what do you mean?
Speaker 17 (39:11):
Well, he was asked through that Tom Pierre at the
panel prior prior to the game, what happened, what happened
with the last game? Justin the coach not you didn't
speak about it for a micro sec and it just
said the coach, the coach. The problem why we lost
that team while we lost that Argentina testis mention and
(39:33):
being a real candivary man, I went wow, Wow, Justin
Marshall you're really.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Grounded, Steve. But but does that explain the tumult here
and what happened.
Speaker 17 (39:45):
The No, No, no that's not But what I'm saying
is that stupid than maybe what we're thinking it is?
Speaker 2 (39:52):
In my opinion, yeah, it probably is, because Steve, we
don't know because we've been given no information. McDonald hasn't spoken,
and you listen to raise it. Now, a lot of
time for Scott Robinson, you know that, right right from
the early days love what he does is coat a
lot of time for him. That his stand up was
uncomfortably strange. It didn't sit well at all. It was awkward,
(40:18):
it was strained. There was something not right about what
he was saying and how he's presenting. It didn't didn't
smell right. Conrad.
Speaker 15 (40:30):
Oh yeah, hi there, And look, look, I think you
were making an assumption that people have to work together.
I think it's a really good thing. They've got the
differences sorted out early on. I mean, what is the
I mean, if you're putting Razor, Razor should be the
guy in charge the end of story, right.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Plainly he is, because Leon's the one that's gone. And
I said that before. He's the one running the show
and he's the one who survived, so that yeah the
good sign.
Speaker 15 (40:53):
Exactly, and so yeah, I disagree with the last course
for example, if that's just too bad. If whether you
don't like well not, it doesn't matter. I mean you
give the coach for years, by the way, and then
the judgment is in November twenty twenty seven. I mean, look,
you know, I mean for me, I'm not that surprised.
I mean, what's going on with Christy? Are we going
(41:16):
to have Jordi Barrett and Iwaney a sin appearing at
the World Cup twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Seven Yuannie's bounced from center back to wing on back
to Sinda again. Christie's just being dropped cold out of nowhere.
What are those two guys got in common? They're both
blues players? Is the two are something there that they've
clashed about as simple as that? The selection well, well
I think it is.
Speaker 15 (41:38):
It's all about different selection philosophy and at the end
of the day, this is a fantastic thing they got.
So about the dog, I bet I've better hang up
Thames kid.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
It's okay, Yeah, I hope you don't get eaten alive.
You should feed that thing there could be trouble at mill.
It's rapidly approaching eight to clock mark slush up from
eight through until midnight of Marcus slush nights before that, though,
We've got a complete news, sport and weather package for you.
(42:07):
I couldn't read your text because, as you know, I
always leaned toward the sound of your voice. So many
conspiracies coming through. It's great people care, don't they they
really do? They climb in. I'll read this one out
because I find this quite amusing. That blessed to be positive.
It's clear that a coaching staff with no whack at
(42:27):
the representation is utterly dysfunctional. Thank you, Mulu kids, well done.
Look at that. Yeah, so many thoughts, so many theories,
but it's definitely a lot of fire underneath you all Blacks.
How they react? Well, we're going to find out in
just over a week's time. Still a bit whippy, isn't it, Lissen.
(42:50):
Thank you to that prodiser Andy Daffa, Thank you to
Gregor Paul, and thank you to all the callers and textans.
I'm done with water Grave, wishing are wonderful. Leaving good evening.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
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It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
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