August 23, 2024 • 12 mins
NZR GM Of Professional Rugby & Performance Chris Lendrum joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss the sudden departure of Leon MacDonald from the All Blacks.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We're joined now by Chris Alendrom, the general manager of
Professional Rugby and Performance from n Z. Chris, Welcome to
the show. Geez, he's been a busy twenty four hours
or so for you, isn't.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
It sure, Darcy? Yeah, it's never a dull day in
rugby mate, if you.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Know, yeah, well, I would say this's dull. I would
say surprising more than anything else. There's a lot of
people scratching the head going we don't quite know where
this has come from. It's been bubbling under for a while.
Just on that there's nothing more to come. You guys
aren't suppressing anything, are you. This is purely what you say, It.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Is absolutely yeah. No, we've been very transparent about what's
happened with Razor and Leon and nothing else to come.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I thought to myself when I read the press relief,
it was a red flag to me that there was
no quote from Leon McDonald. There was nothing attribute to
him about normally. Look, you know, I've enjoyed my time.
I wish you the best for South Africa. He was
very noticeable in his absence on that release. Can you
tell us why that was the case for.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Us Leon's taking a break. He yeah, just wasn't considered
that something that was necessary at time yesterday. Again, there's
nothing hidden going on here, Darcy, but I do understand
that yesterday's news would have come as a big surprise
to a lot of people. You know, to make a
(01:38):
change in the All Blacks coaching group part way through
a test season is never plan a But what you
have here is two coaches who just have genuine differences
in approach to coaching, different philosophies around the way the
game is played now, and I guess under the intensity
(02:03):
of test preparation over the first few weeks of the
season and that had become clear to both of them
that it just wasn't clicking. And as I said yesterday
with media, I'm really proud of them both that they've
made a brave and decisive call to part ways now
(02:26):
best interest of the team at heart.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And it's always been in a case if it did
break down to this degree, Razor wasn't going anywhere because
he's the coach. There was never an argument around that space,
was there? He there? I suppose ceded to what Leon
was after or sorry, Leon, You've got to go. Is
that the base of it?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Well, that's never really a question. I mean, I think
that the first thing to say is overall, where really
content with the direction of the team under Raiser. I know,
you know, they had to buy their own standards, players
and coaches and management. They were frustrated by their performance
in Wellington couple of weeks ago against Argentina. But in
(03:10):
all other regards, I think the team's trending really positively.
All of us across the country, all All Blacks fans
have recognized us as a new coaching group. There's new
players in the group, there's new player leadership. There's just
a lot of newness around the environment and it takes
a little while for everybody to bed in. I think
(03:32):
we saw some huge positives in the English series and
it's not a performance related issue at all that we're
talking about. It's just two coaches that didn't quite click.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Gem of professional rugby and performers from India. Chris Lendram
joined us. Chris, there's a suggestion that possibly due diligence,
wasn't really done properly. This for this to arise so early,
in the season. Surely you think these characters who had
known each other for such a long time, had been
involved before back in the Crusaders days, would know there
(04:09):
might be some tumult there. You'd see what I'm aiming
at there. It seems surprising that it only turned up
now as opposed to when they are actually employing Leon.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
As I said, I can understand people's surprise. And Razor
and Leon have known each other for a very long time,
as you point out Darcy, from playing days at the
Crusaders through coaching. I think what's happened here, at least
in part, is they haven't coached together for a period
of time, and they're both head coached highly successfully. You know,
(04:43):
Leon led a real turnaround and the fortunes of the Blues.
He's been our All Blacks fifteen head coach. Obviously worked
at Tasman as well, very successfully, you know, and everybody
knows what Ras has achieved at the Crusaders, unparalleled success.
(05:04):
So it has been six or seven years since they've
worked together. And when you lead programs, you and you
lead programs separate from one another, it's possible that you've
views diverge a bit in terms of how to play
the game, your philosophy around the game, and I think
(05:25):
that's what's happened here. So everybody went in with the
best of intentions. It was obviously always designed to work.
I don't think this has been disruptive at all for
the team and the work it's got through in the
first part of the season. As I said before, it
just hasn't quite clicked, and I think it's a really
decisive move to call that now.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Strange that they couldn't make it work, right, But obviously
you've been not two or three weeks talking about this,
so there would be movement on both sides, but it
is odd that they couldn't get close to an agreement.
Has to work out like this, But were they that
Poles apart with it?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Chris, You've got to look ahead a bit here, Darcy.
We're five games into the twenty twenty four season. But
the ultimate prize of this whole coaching group and playing
group are shooting for is to climb the mountain and
be best in the world again, and that gets decided
(06:24):
in October November twenty twenty seven. It's a long time
and whilst an element of friction is necessary in high
performance environments and needs to be challenged amongst a coaching group,
for example, challenged bydeers and tactics methodologies. You know, too
(06:47):
much friction can hold a team back. And these guys
are both experienced coaches. They've been in groups where there's
been good friction, and there's been in groups where over
time friction of impacted teams a little bit more negatively.
And they know what they're looking for. They can they
(07:08):
can see that, and as I said, just over the
last few weeks, that's that's what's become a parent of
both of them.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Crystal Linderman's been well kept out of the limelight, which
is pretty good for end Z are To be fair
that no one actually saw this coming. So it was
basically what it was yourself, It was Raser, it was Angie.
What about the other assistant coaches, any other involvement from
within the team. I believe the players had nothing to
do with the here. They were informed afterwards. But how
deeply amongst the staff did you guys dig to try
(07:37):
and work through a solution.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Look, those these sorts of issues you you kind of
want to keep to a need to know baseless right,
I mean, and I said this yesterday, Darcy. We debrief
at the end of every All Blacks campaign. So we
debriefed at the end of the Steinlager series, which was
(08:02):
you know, the two tests against England and c and
as I said that the team ending really well. There
no no issues being feedback from players, for example, around
the coaching group. In fact, the feedback was overwhelmingly positive
in terms of the quality and detail of coaching in
the group. So we're really pleased with that. It's yeah,
(08:25):
I mean, you don't in the end. These are employment situations,
aren't they And just like it would be for you.
God forbid that you ended up in a a in
a situation with a sort of clash of styles. But yeah,
I mean it was. It was held tightly and we're
(08:46):
happy with that because you know, both Scott and Leon
are really key employees of ours and that's what their
rights are.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Done and dusted. Now it's out. Obviously he's away hiding.
There's there's no way we can get hold of him.
What's actually doing there, how's his headed and how's razor
how he's going Because it's playing out. Something of this
can't be good for the mental health, can it.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Chris well, I think it's left too long. That's that's correct, right,
and that's why I say again, I think you know
they've made a really brave and decisive call here. Leon's
taking a break. It's not plan a for anybody for
this to have happened. So this is a changeing plan
(09:28):
for him. He will quickly think about what comes next
for him. He's a superb coach. He was in high
demand internationally before the All Blacks coaching group was appointed
under Scott and I fully expect he will be in
high demand again and equally in New Zealand. He will
(09:52):
be extremely welcome back into our coaching system as and
when he wants to do that raises good. You know.
It's it's to have this clear before the team heads
away to South Africa. They've got a huge, huge test,
(10:13):
two tests coming up in South Africa. You know. I
think it's the All Black stream to go to Alice
Park and in play the spring box and win and
they'll all have clear heads and everyone's riding behind them
to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Aware of any immediate plans of Leon has been expressed
at all as far as coaching is concerned.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
No, it's a question for Leon really I'm you know,
I'm not. We've been focused on just working through these
discussions and in this process with him and we he's
ready to make some announcements about what he wants to
do next. Toll he'll make them, but I wouldn't expect
(10:59):
them anytimes. So and does.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
And finally, Chris Linjaman, thanks so much for joining us.
How long does it take you to negotiate the payoutance
of the contracts? I'm presuming it was a long time.
There would have been a bit of headbutting around that, surely.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
So You've been in this game long enough to know that.
I can't answer questions about employment issues, my friend. But look,
you know you just like you say, you look after
your people as they're entitled to be looked after. And
you know that's really all we can say.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, I knew, absolutely, but you know the deal, Chris.
Good things come to those who ask. They always have
a crack, don't you hate Chris? Thanks so much for
joining us here, real pleasure to talk to you. Let's
hope now it's eyes forward, reversion mirrors are broken off
and we can concentrate on what will be a tremendous
tour of the Republic again, thanks for your time and
your availability. Hugely appreciated.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
All good to be, always good to talk mate.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
For more from sports talk, listen lived to News Talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We're joined now by Chris Alendrom, the general manager of
Professional Rugby and Performance from n Z. Chris, Welcome to
the show. Geez, he's been a busy twenty four hours
or so for you, isn't.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
It sure, Darcy? Yeah, it's never a dull day in
rugby mate, if you.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Know, yeah, well, I would say this's dull. I would
say surprising more than anything else. There's a lot of
people scratching the head going we don't quite know where
this has come from. It's been bubbling under for a while.
Just on that there's nothing more to come. You guys
aren't suppressing anything, are you. This is purely what you say, It.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Is absolutely yeah. No, we've been very transparent about what's
happened with Razor and Leon and nothing else to come.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I thought to myself when I read the press relief,
it was a red flag to me that there was
no quote from Leon McDonald. There was nothing attribute to
him about normally. Look, you know, I've enjoyed my time.
I wish you the best for South Africa. He was
very noticeable in his absence on that release. Can you
tell us why that was the case for.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Us Leon's taking a break. He yeah, just wasn't considered
that something that was necessary at time yesterday. Again, there's
nothing hidden going on here, Darcy, but I do understand
that yesterday's news would have come as a big surprise
to a lot of people. You know, to make a
(01:38):
change in the All Blacks coaching group part way through
a test season is never plan a But what you
have here is two coaches who just have genuine differences
in approach to coaching, different philosophies around the way the
game is played now, and I guess under the intensity
(02:03):
of test preparation over the first few weeks of the
season and that had become clear to both of them
that it just wasn't clicking. And as I said yesterday
with media, I'm really proud of them both that they've
made a brave and decisive call to part ways now
(02:26):
best interest of the team at heart.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And it's always been in a case if it did
break down to this degree, Razor wasn't going anywhere because
he's the coach. There was never an argument around that space,
was there? He there? I suppose ceded to what Leon
was after or sorry, Leon, You've got to go. Is
that the base of it?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Well, that's never really a question. I mean, I think
that the first thing to say is overall, where really
content with the direction of the team under Raiser. I know,
you know, they had to buy their own standards, players
and coaches and management. They were frustrated by their performance
in Wellington couple of weeks ago against Argentina. But in
(03:10):
all other regards, I think the team's trending really positively.
All of us across the country, all All Blacks fans
have recognized us as a new coaching group. There's new
players in the group, there's new player leadership. There's just
a lot of newness around the environment and it takes
a little while for everybody to bed in. I think
(03:32):
we saw some huge positives in the English series and
it's not a performance related issue at all that we're
talking about. It's just two coaches that didn't quite click.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Gem of professional rugby and performers from India. Chris Lendram
joined us. Chris, there's a suggestion that possibly due diligence,
wasn't really done properly. This for this to arise so early,
in the season. Surely you think these characters who had
known each other for such a long time, had been
involved before back in the Crusaders days, would know there
(04:09):
might be some tumult there. You'd see what I'm aiming
at there. It seems surprising that it only turned up
now as opposed to when they are actually employing Leon.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
As I said, I can understand people's surprise. And Razor
and Leon have known each other for a very long time,
as you point out Darcy, from playing days at the
Crusaders through coaching. I think what's happened here, at least
in part, is they haven't coached together for a period
of time, and they're both head coached highly successfully. You know,
(04:43):
Leon led a real turnaround and the fortunes of the Blues.
He's been our All Blacks fifteen head coach. Obviously worked
at Tasman as well, very successfully, you know, and everybody
knows what Ras has achieved at the Crusaders, unparalleled success.
(05:04):
So it has been six or seven years since they've
worked together. And when you lead programs, you and you
lead programs separate from one another, it's possible that you've
views diverge a bit in terms of how to play
the game, your philosophy around the game, and I think
(05:25):
that's what's happened here. So everybody went in with the
best of intentions. It was obviously always designed to work.
I don't think this has been disruptive at all for
the team and the work it's got through in the
first part of the season. As I said before, it
just hasn't quite clicked, and I think it's a really
decisive move to call that now.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Strange that they couldn't make it work, right, But obviously
you've been not two or three weeks talking about this,
so there would be movement on both sides, but it
is odd that they couldn't get close to an agreement.
Has to work out like this, But were they that
Poles apart with it?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Chris, You've got to look ahead a bit here, Darcy.
We're five games into the twenty twenty four season. But
the ultimate prize of this whole coaching group and playing
group are shooting for is to climb the mountain and
be best in the world again, and that gets decided
(06:24):
in October November twenty twenty seven. It's a long time
and whilst an element of friction is necessary in high
performance environments and needs to be challenged amongst a coaching group,
for example, challenged bydeers and tactics methodologies. You know, too
(06:47):
much friction can hold a team back. And these guys
are both experienced coaches. They've been in groups where there's
been good friction, and there's been in groups where over
time friction of impacted teams a little bit more negatively.
And they know what they're looking for. They can they
(07:08):
can see that, and as I said, just over the
last few weeks, that's that's what's become a parent of
both of them.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Crystal Linderman's been well kept out of the limelight, which
is pretty good for end Z are To be fair
that no one actually saw this coming. So it was
basically what it was yourself, It was Raser, it was Angie.
What about the other assistant coaches, any other involvement from
within the team. I believe the players had nothing to
do with the here. They were informed afterwards. But how
deeply amongst the staff did you guys dig to try
(07:37):
and work through a solution.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Look, those these sorts of issues you you kind of
want to keep to a need to know baseless right,
I mean, and I said this yesterday, Darcy. We debrief
at the end of every All Blacks campaign. So we
debriefed at the end of the Steinlager series, which was
(08:02):
you know, the two tests against England and c and
as I said that the team ending really well. There
no no issues being feedback from players, for example, around
the coaching group. In fact, the feedback was overwhelmingly positive
in terms of the quality and detail of coaching in
the group. So we're really pleased with that. It's yeah,
(08:25):
I mean, you don't in the end. These are employment situations,
aren't they And just like it would be for you.
God forbid that you ended up in a a in
a situation with a sort of clash of styles. But yeah,
I mean it was. It was held tightly and we're
(08:46):
happy with that because you know, both Scott and Leon
are really key employees of ours and that's what their
rights are.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Done and dusted. Now it's out. Obviously he's away hiding.
There's there's no way we can get hold of him.
What's actually doing there, how's his headed and how's razor
how he's going Because it's playing out. Something of this
can't be good for the mental health, can it.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Chris well, I think it's left too long. That's that's correct, right,
and that's why I say again, I think you know
they've made a really brave and decisive call here. Leon's
taking a break. It's not plan a for anybody for
this to have happened. So this is a changeing plan
(09:28):
for him. He will quickly think about what comes next
for him. He's a superb coach. He was in high
demand internationally before the All Blacks coaching group was appointed
under Scott and I fully expect he will be in
high demand again and equally in New Zealand. He will
(09:52):
be extremely welcome back into our coaching system as and
when he wants to do that raises good. You know.
It's it's to have this clear before the team heads
away to South Africa. They've got a huge, huge test,
(10:13):
two tests coming up in South Africa. You know. I
think it's the All Black stream to go to Alice
Park and in play the spring box and win and
they'll all have clear heads and everyone's riding behind them
to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Aware of any immediate plans of Leon has been expressed
at all as far as coaching is concerned.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
No, it's a question for Leon really I'm you know,
I'm not. We've been focused on just working through these
discussions and in this process with him and we he's
ready to make some announcements about what he wants to
do next. Toll he'll make them, but I wouldn't expect
(10:59):
them anytimes. So and does.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
And finally, Chris Linjaman, thanks so much for joining us.
How long does it take you to negotiate the payoutance
of the contracts? I'm presuming it was a long time.
There would have been a bit of headbutting around that, surely.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
So You've been in this game long enough to know that.
I can't answer questions about employment issues, my friend. But look,
you know you just like you say, you look after
your people as they're entitled to be looked after. And
you know that's really all we can say.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, I knew, absolutely, but you know the deal, Chris.
Good things come to those who ask. They always have
a crack, don't you hate Chris? Thanks so much for
joining us here, real pleasure to talk to you. Let's
hope now it's eyes forward, reversion mirrors are broken off
and we can concentrate on what will be a tremendous
tour of the Republic again, thanks for your time and
your availability. Hugely appreciated.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
All good to be, always good to talk mate.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
For more from sports talk, listen lived to News Talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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