August 29, 2024 • 14 mins
Former Springboks Head Coach Heyneke Meyer joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to preview the All Blacks v South Africa test at Ellis Park.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from news Talk z BE.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
They don't come much bigger than a test match at
Alice Park between the spring Boxer and the All Blacks.
And were joined now by a man who knows it
all inside out. His name as Henek Meyer, from a
coach of the spring Box and we welcome you to
the program. It's true way Ellis Park, All Blacks, spring Box,
that's the panicle.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Surely, yeah, that's unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
You know, they've just I just had an interview now
about the last time he beat All Blacks in at
Adas Spark in twenty fourteen and just amanding that game.
We ended a little to the wire and just to
look collecting that game, it was an unbelievable experience in
that other spark. You know, sixty thousand people. It's a pannicle.
I think it's a pinnacle for South African players as well.
(00:56):
And always the All Blacks always left himselves and actually
that spoke's got a really good record with All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You know, it's at the ifelt.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
People think, you know, it's too South Africa more, but
I think to New Zealand as well, because the quick field,
the ball travels a lot. So yeah, unbelievable field, unbelievable atmosphere,
and you don't get bigger than that. You know, there's
so much respect between the two teams, and two of
the best teams in the world.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
They South American's are playing some sublime rugby. It's almost
like they've gotten better since that World Cup final, still
retaining a lot of the experience, but bringing a nice
set of youth through taking that into mind and looking
at the All Blacks under a new coach, do the
All Blacks have much of a chance of actually winning
this game?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Hondegan, Allblocks definitely have a chance.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Definitely, you can never write them off. Believable back back
line and an unbelievable team. I actually want to go
one step back in a sense I feel for for
Razor because I was more or less in the same position,
you know, I think where the All Blacks were always
very very good as they always had continuity. I remember
when I did my first Test match. My friend Steve
and and has been an assistant coach for eight years.
(02:01):
I think he had hundred best matches as assistant coach,
and then at rich McCall, the happened for almost hundred
test matches as well. And when I took over, you know,
I was new, My my coaching staff was new, and
my captain was new. So you know, it's only five
games in. It takes time to sort out your coaching staff.
It takes time to start your team and the way
you want to play, and you learn sometimes on the go.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
It's much different test match rugby.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
So in a sense I feel for Scutt because I
know being new Zillian or South African public days now,
there's no time to get you know, to grow, you
have to you have to be at your base from
day one. But by saying that, I doesn't think the
all that's got a chance, I doesn't think at other spot,
you know, the quality team, they still got a lot
of experience there. I think they've got a brilliant brant backline,
(02:47):
so they definitely have a chance. For me, there's three
things which I think is very important. The first thing
I think is that is a tactical kicking game. I
thought they were brilliant against Argentina the last game, one
of the best performances I've seen that conditions. But in
the previous game they couldn't get out of their half,
so against the rash defense where they were really quite
efficient in the past, you know, cross kicks to Will
(03:08):
Jordan or the wingers and just to just to knock
that you know, that fresh defense back. So they've got
a good kicking game to get in the right areas.
You know, the Zeland front football, they can run any
team to pieces, so I think that's going to be important.
And then obviously the set piece. You know, I mean
I used to play New Zidant. We were always in
the game the first sixty minutes and in the last
(03:28):
win and they just bring on these impact players and
they played such a high tempo. So I think the
benches can be very important. You know, Africa's got a
lot of experience on the bench, so you know, specially
scram wise in the last twenty minutes can be very
important to them.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So if you can't scrum against Africa, it will be difficult.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
And then I think what this didn't have done well
lately in the last year or two against Africa stopping
the malls, So they get those things right there in
the right areas to get you know, brokenfield playing the union.
It's still a very dangerous team and We've got so
much respect for them.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Adaka am I joining the program. You touched on assistant
coach and you see it how difficult it is for
robertson starting off. Of course, Leo McDonald's just walked on
the team. How much interference do you think is that
going to be for the side.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, there's always interference, But I think again, you know
it's only been four or five these matches in and
you know it's better to make the call now, I
believe because what you don't one that I've been in
coaching staff like that is you know it's all about philosophy.
If you don't agree on philosophy, and I don't, I'm
not comment to match because I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
There isn't ins and outs. I don't like to comment
on other teams. But one thing I do know.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
You know, if there's a clash of philosophies, sooner or
later the team gets divided and then there's no way
you can win.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I still feel a really.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Good team, I think, especially I believeable back back line
and if they can you know they can do on
the set piece that was going to have a chance.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Even Elizabeth is going to be playing there was a
thought process that he might not have been playing. I
didn't expect for a minute that he wouldn't be. I mean,
mine game is enough from a resci arresthmus is just
the way things roll.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
No, I don't think it's mind games. Was injured during
the week and they've got a policy. If you don't
train on a Monday, you can't You're not going to play.
So at first he was he wasn't he was. He
trained on Monday apparently and was ready to play.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
And then you know, at a Nigel wasn't a percent.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Then the thought he's not going to be able to play,
and then you recovered well and trained well. I think
then the nice thing that they do have at the
moment the spring mark is they got so much tips
and what I like, I said, but they're being right
at the moment is you know, if you look at
that bench, you know, Vincent Koch mark and marks one
up there one of the best. You know, because in
the world it's a bit It's got an unbelievable bench.
(05:45):
Quaha makes a huge difference and a lot of experience.
If you look at the Zialian bench also great impact players,
but you know, not the same experience and what I've
seen about that Africa and even when I was involved,
we're not always good chasing a game. You know, we're
very good being in front and and you know, just
keep to the structure and and you know, close the
game out. But if they have to change at the end,
(06:08):
it's quite difficult, and I think they'll actually I have
now is that they bring those guys on they say experienced.
They have a guy like even not risking him for
sixty seventy minutes, he got Malcolm Marks, guys all almost
like fifty test matches on the bench.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
That that's been a difference for them lately.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
They bring on those guys and the team is being
maybe lesser guys than not as experienced guys. That's a
huge factor in the game, and especially they for that's
gonna be a huge factor.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Tell us about RESSI arrestmus What have you had to
do with him? He's a very interesting human and interesting coach.
He's definitely well, they threw away the mold when they
created him, didn't they. What would he like to deal with?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Is he just a litele bit crazy in a good way? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
He was my technical advia for the first two years
and then he became director of RAGBDA.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
He's a great coach.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I think he's very technical, studies the game and I
think the one thing they're doing right at the moment,
you know, bring a guy in like Tony Brown's can
be immense. You know, at one statu traffic was very isolated.
Even when Eye coach, we're not allowed to bring guys
from overseas.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
We're not allowed.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
It was all about intellectual property. I think the one
thing a Russia has done well and they had to go,
you know, the go way to do it. Especially when
you're a director of rugby, I think you learn a
lot of monster and a great thing now is I
mean to bring Tony Brown is I think it's an
unbelievable step in the right direction. So Africa could always
play a good kicking for dominated game with brilliant defense.
(07:33):
You know, that was our DNA and they will never
move away from that. I think the fact that they
brought in Tony Brown is suddenly they play with more
with It's only been four or five test matches, but
you can see glimpses of what they can be and
they can play all around game. You know, they're always
been good set piece and defense. Now they add that
with some great attacking players and I think that's why
they're looking at this young ten as well.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Whi's been impressive.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
So I think Russia is an innovator and the fact
that he's not, you know, not scared to re engage
in other countries, it's going to make a big difference.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Keeps on innovating, games on growing, and he's a great.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Coach, same kind starting for the All Blacks Formala captain
got sent off on the finals first game back incurs
World Cup last year. Did the spring box rate what
Sam Kine brings to the game, brings to the pack,
brings to his position.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Yeah, I rate Sam Kaine very highly as a player
and I think the one thing that they do need
to is to do to slows that Afghans ball down.
You know that African forwards get go forward and get
quick ball in the front through They're ver y dangerous,
especially now, like I said, with their attacking play going forward.
I've got a lot of respect for the New Zealand
loose Fords, a lot of big ball carriers in there,
(08:43):
but I think sam Kay is more like a Richard
mcgold moore is out and out open site, which I
probably didn't have previously, So I rate him Eiley. It's
a pretty event off in that final, you know, just
just a nature of the beast the game at the moment.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And maybe that's the other thing, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I think discipline is there's a lot of choice between
these two sides, and I think now with the you know,
so much interference from from the officials, the disciplines can
be very important.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And THISND sometimes go with experience.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
He need experienced players, you need kool ad so to
have him there, he's quae experienced, he's been a captain.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You know, it's got a lot of lot to prove.
So I think that's a great goal to have him involved.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
What about on the wing, Caleb Klark. He's a big body,
he can run, he can trample over people, but he
might get rings run around him by his opposite. That's
an interesting call, isn't it. Minka.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, I've always rated him. It depends how you want
to go, you know, Will Jordan. For me, he's probably
up there the best wingers in the world. I really
highly rate him, especially those cross kicks, and I think
they should probably do that in the beginning, just you know,
like I said, just to give the rash defense out.
But I always always felt in New zient that one
beginner running it as they very y dangerous.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
A guy can score something out of nothing. He has
always had that.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
I when I used to coach against them, they had
a lot of those guys playing. Certainly I've probably been
in the A it's more like Will Jordan, and but
I just think if you have that big wing of
bringing him in easily very dangerous and it's all about
the attack. I think it's good that they're going with
attacking mindset, so three very very good wingers. But I like,
I've always liked him since i've seen him player as
(10:19):
a youngster. You can score something out of nothing, and
you're going to need that. I think the margins and
this game is so small if you look, even when
I played New Zealand, all our games was within two points,
and even now it's within one or two points. Especially
in the World Cups couldn't gone either way. So you
need those game breakers. And you know I oona as well.
You know well Jordan, I think the one thing that
you didn't do, have you say do they have a chance.
(10:41):
The one thing New zillion't do have is unbelievable. But
game breakers, you know, that's the things you can't coach,
and I've always been renowned for that, especially in those
backs and all these are v I rate very highly.
Is you know, probably the best open side and one
of the best flankers in the world. But this is
not always add as game breakers, and he's one of
those guys, so they're going to need that on the day.
(11:02):
You know, very exciting backs. If they tied five, step up,
I think it will be a tight game.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And finally, just closing up, HEARTIKM, I thank you so
much for joining us. Is there an obvious weakness in
this all black side that can be exploited?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
You know at that level, the great teams like that.
I don't think there's there's a weakness.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It's just you know, the margins, like I said, is
so small, so at that level there's there's stay, not weaknesses.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I just think it's a question of.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
You know, they just need time this team, and I
know that because I was on the hand side, other
side of the fence. These guys just need time with
a new coaching staff, they just need tithing know exactly
how they want to play. You know, every single game
out there is unbelievable pressure, especially if the resident or
the South African coach. I've been there and every game
is a master to win, so you almost take longer
(11:57):
just to you know, get your DNA going. But not
a lot of not a lot of weakners in that team.
And I keep on saying this, if you don't get
front football in the right areas and get quick ball,
they have a very dangerous team, like they've turned against Argentina.
The one thing they probably have to they have to
to do is that, and I know they will. I
just felt I watched both test matches. I love to
(12:18):
see this didn't play. I'm a big friend of New
Zealand rugby, but I could just see the intensity difference
in the intensity between the first Test against Argentina and
the second Test. I mean the intensity the second Test.
You know, every single collision is you know, as one,
every single collision. You know, they were just dominant and
they dive on the ball and they were just unbelievable
physical To be the spring miks at other spot, they're
(12:39):
going to need that same physicality.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I know they will lift themselves. They always lift themselves,
So South Africa.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I haven't been to a New Zealand South Africa Test
match for a long time, so I'm going to the game.
So I'm very very excited. I think it's gonna be
awesome game and it's gonna you know, it's gonna be
a it's gonna be in the small margins, the discipline,
the set piece and the game breakers. So I'm looking
forward to awesome game.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It's gonna win there right again, litten, I'll let's rugby
be the winner. But I tell you one thing, I'd
never never write off the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I saw that and I think it was a previous
year with that Africa at a brilliant game beat them
at now spread unbelievable game. They came back and beat
it Africa convincingly. I think what what the Zillian needs,
Like I said, if they get a hit and get confidence.
It's very difficult. But to play against them, because you
have if you change the All Blacks, you in trouble
like they showed the last Test match. So for them
(13:33):
to when they need to start well, keep going before
the you know, before the benches comes on and and
before the you know, the altitude is quite tough there
but I always play it well in altitude. You know,
I think it's a I think it's a myth that
they struggled at altitude. I think it's just them their
game in the in the sense like I said, it's
much quicker and the board travels further and they can
(13:53):
open up the game.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So I don't think. You know, they got a good
record on the spoken.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Great to catch up with you again, my friend. You
look after yourself, enjoy the Test match in year Rugby
will be the winner and the thanks for your time.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Thank you so much, and again you know the arrival
between well. I enjoyed my time with South Africa and
especially against Steve Anton's All Black. You know, we would
kill each other on the field, but afterwards we always
add a beer in the cloak room. So much respect
between the two countries. Doesn't get bigger than this. And
hope for years to come that respect between South African
Nisians will always be there for me to face. The
(14:27):
ARCO was one of the biggest moments in my life.
I always would go down and stand down there just
to so much, so much respect, so so much expect
between two countries, so much friendship, and I really hope
you know, with the modern game, you can keep that going.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from news Talk z BE.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
They don't come much bigger than a test match at
Alice Park between the spring Boxer and the All Blacks.
And were joined now by a man who knows it
all inside out. His name as Henek Meyer, from a
coach of the spring Box and we welcome you to
the program. It's true way Ellis Park, All Blacks, spring Box,
that's the panicle.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Surely, yeah, that's unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
You know, they've just I just had an interview now
about the last time he beat All Blacks in at
Adas Spark in twenty fourteen and just amanding that game.
We ended a little to the wire and just to
look collecting that game, it was an unbelievable experience in
that other spark. You know, sixty thousand people. It's a pannicle.
I think it's a pinnacle for South African players as well.
(00:56):
And always the All Blacks always left himselves and actually
that spoke's got a really good record with All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You know, it's at the ifelt.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
People think, you know, it's too South Africa more, but
I think to New Zealand as well, because the quick field,
the ball travels a lot. So yeah, unbelievable field, unbelievable atmosphere,
and you don't get bigger than that. You know, there's
so much respect between the two teams, and two of
the best teams in the world.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
They South American's are playing some sublime rugby. It's almost
like they've gotten better since that World Cup final, still
retaining a lot of the experience, but bringing a nice
set of youth through taking that into mind and looking
at the All Blacks under a new coach, do the
All Blacks have much of a chance of actually winning
this game?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Hondegan, Allblocks definitely have a chance.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Definitely, you can never write them off. Believable back back
line and an unbelievable team. I actually want to go
one step back in a sense I feel for for
Razor because I was more or less in the same position,
you know, I think where the All Blacks were always
very very good as they always had continuity. I remember
when I did my first Test match. My friend Steve
and and has been an assistant coach for eight years.
(02:01):
I think he had hundred best matches as assistant coach,
and then at rich McCall, the happened for almost hundred
test matches as well. And when I took over, you know,
I was new, My my coaching staff was new, and
my captain was new. So you know, it's only five
games in. It takes time to sort out your coaching staff.
It takes time to start your team and the way
you want to play, and you learn sometimes on the go.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
It's much different test match rugby.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
So in a sense I feel for Scutt because I
know being new Zillian or South African public days now,
there's no time to get you know, to grow, you
have to you have to be at your base from
day one. But by saying that, I doesn't think the
all that's got a chance, I doesn't think at other spot,
you know, the quality team, they still got a lot
of experience there. I think they've got a brilliant brant backline,
(02:47):
so they definitely have a chance. For me, there's three
things which I think is very important. The first thing
I think is that is a tactical kicking game. I
thought they were brilliant against Argentina the last game, one
of the best performances I've seen that conditions. But in
the previous game they couldn't get out of their half,
so against the rash defense where they were really quite
efficient in the past, you know, cross kicks to Will
(03:08):
Jordan or the wingers and just to just to knock
that you know, that fresh defense back. So they've got
a good kicking game to get in the right areas.
You know, the Zeland front football, they can run any
team to pieces, so I think that's going to be important.
And then obviously the set piece. You know, I mean
I used to play New Zidant. We were always in
the game the first sixty minutes and in the last
(03:28):
win and they just bring on these impact players and
they played such a high tempo. So I think the
benches can be very important. You know, Africa's got a
lot of experience on the bench, so you know, specially
scram wise in the last twenty minutes can be very
important to them.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So if you can't scrum against Africa, it will be difficult.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
And then I think what this didn't have done well
lately in the last year or two against Africa stopping
the malls, So they get those things right there in
the right areas to get you know, brokenfield playing the union.
It's still a very dangerous team and We've got so
much respect for them.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Adaka am I joining the program. You touched on assistant
coach and you see it how difficult it is for
robertson starting off. Of course, Leo McDonald's just walked on
the team. How much interference do you think is that
going to be for the side.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, there's always interference, But I think again, you know
it's only been four or five these matches in and
you know it's better to make the call now, I
believe because what you don't one that I've been in
coaching staff like that is you know it's all about philosophy.
If you don't agree on philosophy, and I don't, I'm
not comment to match because I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
There isn't ins and outs. I don't like to comment
on other teams. But one thing I do know.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
You know, if there's a clash of philosophies, sooner or
later the team gets divided and then there's no way
you can win.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I still feel a really.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Good team, I think, especially I believeable back back line
and if they can you know they can do on
the set piece that was going to have a chance.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Even Elizabeth is going to be playing there was a
thought process that he might not have been playing. I
didn't expect for a minute that he wouldn't be. I mean,
mine game is enough from a resci arresthmus is just
the way things roll.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
No, I don't think it's mind games. Was injured during
the week and they've got a policy. If you don't
train on a Monday, you can't You're not going to play.
So at first he was he wasn't he was. He
trained on Monday apparently and was ready to play.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
And then you know, at a Nigel wasn't a percent.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Then the thought he's not going to be able to play,
and then you recovered well and trained well. I think
then the nice thing that they do have at the
moment the spring mark is they got so much tips
and what I like, I said, but they're being right
at the moment is you know, if you look at
that bench, you know, Vincent Koch mark and marks one
up there one of the best. You know, because in
the world it's a bit It's got an unbelievable bench.
(05:45):
Quaha makes a huge difference and a lot of experience.
If you look at the Zialian bench also great impact players,
but you know, not the same experience and what I've
seen about that Africa and even when I was involved,
we're not always good chasing a game. You know, we're
very good being in front and and you know, just
keep to the structure and and you know, close the
game out. But if they have to change at the end,
(06:08):
it's quite difficult, and I think they'll actually I have
now is that they bring those guys on they say experienced.
They have a guy like even not risking him for
sixty seventy minutes, he got Malcolm Marks, guys all almost
like fifty test matches on the bench.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
That that's been a difference for them lately.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
They bring on those guys and the team is being
maybe lesser guys than not as experienced guys. That's a
huge factor in the game, and especially they for that's
gonna be a huge factor.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Tell us about RESSI arrestmus What have you had to
do with him? He's a very interesting human and interesting coach.
He's definitely well, they threw away the mold when they
created him, didn't they. What would he like to deal with?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Is he just a litele bit crazy in a good way? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
He was my technical advia for the first two years
and then he became director of RAGBDA.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
He's a great coach.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I think he's very technical, studies the game and I
think the one thing they're doing right at the moment,
you know, bring a guy in like Tony Brown's can
be immense. You know, at one statu traffic was very isolated.
Even when Eye coach, we're not allowed to bring guys
from overseas.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
We're not allowed.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
It was all about intellectual property. I think the one
thing a Russia has done well and they had to go,
you know, the go way to do it. Especially when
you're a director of rugby, I think you learn a
lot of monster and a great thing now is I
mean to bring Tony Brown is I think it's an
unbelievable step in the right direction. So Africa could always
play a good kicking for dominated game with brilliant defense.
(07:33):
You know, that was our DNA and they will never
move away from that. I think the fact that they
brought in Tony Brown is suddenly they play with more
with It's only been four or five test matches, but
you can see glimpses of what they can be and
they can play all around game. You know, they're always
been good set piece and defense. Now they add that
with some great attacking players and I think that's why
they're looking at this young ten as well.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Whi's been impressive.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
So I think Russia is an innovator and the fact
that he's not, you know, not scared to re engage
in other countries, it's going to make a big difference.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Keeps on innovating, games on growing, and he's a great.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Coach, same kind starting for the All Blacks Formala captain
got sent off on the finals first game back incurs
World Cup last year. Did the spring box rate what
Sam Kine brings to the game, brings to the pack,
brings to his position.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Yeah, I rate Sam Kaine very highly as a player
and I think the one thing that they do need
to is to do to slows that Afghans ball down.
You know that African forwards get go forward and get
quick ball in the front through They're ver y dangerous,
especially now, like I said, with their attacking play going forward.
I've got a lot of respect for the New Zealand
loose Fords, a lot of big ball carriers in there,
(08:43):
but I think sam Kay is more like a Richard
mcgold moore is out and out open site, which I
probably didn't have previously, So I rate him Eiley. It's
a pretty event off in that final, you know, just
just a nature of the beast the game at the moment.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And maybe that's the other thing, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I think discipline is there's a lot of choice between
these two sides, and I think now with the you know,
so much interference from from the officials, the disciplines can
be very important.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And THISND sometimes go with experience.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
He need experienced players, you need kool ad so to
have him there, he's quae experienced, he's been a captain.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You know, it's got a lot of lot to prove.
So I think that's a great goal to have him involved.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
What about on the wing, Caleb Klark. He's a big body,
he can run, he can trample over people, but he
might get rings run around him by his opposite. That's
an interesting call, isn't it. Minka.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, I've always rated him. It depends how you want
to go, you know, Will Jordan. For me, he's probably
up there the best wingers in the world. I really
highly rate him, especially those cross kicks, and I think
they should probably do that in the beginning, just you know,
like I said, just to give the rash defense out.
But I always always felt in New zient that one
beginner running it as they very y dangerous.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
A guy can score something out of nothing. He has
always had that.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
I when I used to coach against them, they had
a lot of those guys playing. Certainly I've probably been
in the A it's more like Will Jordan, and but
I just think if you have that big wing of
bringing him in easily very dangerous and it's all about
the attack. I think it's good that they're going with
attacking mindset, so three very very good wingers. But I like,
I've always liked him since i've seen him player as
(10:19):
a youngster. You can score something out of nothing, and
you're going to need that. I think the margins and
this game is so small if you look, even when
I played New Zealand, all our games was within two points,
and even now it's within one or two points. Especially
in the World Cups couldn't gone either way. So you
need those game breakers. And you know I oona as well.
You know well Jordan, I think the one thing that
you didn't do, have you say do they have a chance.
(10:41):
The one thing New zillion't do have is unbelievable. But
game breakers, you know, that's the things you can't coach,
and I've always been renowned for that, especially in those
backs and all these are v I rate very highly.
Is you know, probably the best open side and one
of the best flankers in the world. But this is
not always add as game breakers, and he's one of
those guys, so they're going to need that on the day.
(11:02):
You know, very exciting backs. If they tied five, step up,
I think it will be a tight game.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And finally, just closing up, HEARTIKM, I thank you so
much for joining us. Is there an obvious weakness in
this all black side that can be exploited?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
You know at that level, the great teams like that.
I don't think there's there's a weakness.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It's just you know, the margins, like I said, is
so small, so at that level there's there's stay, not weaknesses.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I just think it's a question of.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
You know, they just need time this team, and I
know that because I was on the hand side, other
side of the fence. These guys just need time with
a new coaching staff, they just need tithing know exactly
how they want to play. You know, every single game
out there is unbelievable pressure, especially if the resident or
the South African coach. I've been there and every game
is a master to win, so you almost take longer
(11:57):
just to you know, get your DNA going. But not
a lot of not a lot of weakners in that team.
And I keep on saying this, if you don't get
front football in the right areas and get quick ball,
they have a very dangerous team, like they've turned against Argentina.
The one thing they probably have to they have to
to do is that, and I know they will. I
just felt I watched both test matches. I love to
(12:18):
see this didn't play. I'm a big friend of New
Zealand rugby, but I could just see the intensity difference
in the intensity between the first Test against Argentina and
the second Test. I mean the intensity the second Test.
You know, every single collision is you know, as one,
every single collision. You know, they were just dominant and
they dive on the ball and they were just unbelievable
physical To be the spring miks at other spot, they're
(12:39):
going to need that same physicality.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I know they will lift themselves. They always lift themselves,
So South Africa.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I haven't been to a New Zealand South Africa Test
match for a long time, so I'm going to the game.
So I'm very very excited. I think it's gonna be
awesome game and it's gonna you know, it's gonna be
a it's gonna be in the small margins, the discipline,
the set piece and the game breakers. So I'm looking
forward to awesome game.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It's gonna win there right again, litten, I'll let's rugby
be the winner. But I tell you one thing, I'd
never never write off the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I saw that and I think it was a previous
year with that Africa at a brilliant game beat them
at now spread unbelievable game. They came back and beat
it Africa convincingly. I think what what the Zillian needs,
Like I said, if they get a hit and get confidence.
It's very difficult. But to play against them, because you
have if you change the All Blacks, you in trouble
like they showed the last Test match. So for them
(13:33):
to when they need to start well, keep going before
the you know, before the benches comes on and and
before the you know, the altitude is quite tough there
but I always play it well in altitude. You know,
I think it's a I think it's a myth that
they struggled at altitude. I think it's just them their
game in the in the sense like I said, it's
much quicker and the board travels further and they can
(13:53):
open up the game.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So I don't think. You know, they got a good
record on the spoken.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Great to catch up with you again, my friend. You
look after yourself, enjoy the Test match in year Rugby
will be the winner and the thanks for your time.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Thank you so much, and again you know the arrival
between well. I enjoyed my time with South Africa and
especially against Steve Anton's All Black. You know, we would
kill each other on the field, but afterwards we always
add a beer in the cloak room. So much respect
between the two countries. Doesn't get bigger than this. And
hope for years to come that respect between South African
Nisians will always be there for me to face. The
(14:27):
ARCO was one of the biggest moments in my life.
I always would go down and stand down there just
to so much, so much respect, so so much expect
between two countries, so much friendship, and I really hope
you know, with the modern game, you can keep that going.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks
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