September 6, 2024 • 9 mins
The All Blacks have a chance to make things right this weekend, redeeming themselves after last weekend’s loss to the Springboks.
If they beat the Springboks at Cape Town they'll at least keep their hopes of a Rugby Championship victory alive.
Former All Blacks coach Laurie Mains spoke to Craig Cumming on Sportstalk about whether they can do it, and if the refs were unfair last weekend.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from news Talk z'd.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Be time to talk rugby on the program. Big Test
match for the All Blacks, the second one against South
Africa and if you want to find out what they
need to do well they form All Black. Coach form
All Black and a man who spent a lot of
time in Africa as Larry Mains and he joins me,
good evening, Lurry, how are.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You yeah, good evening, I'm well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well before we go to this weekend, let's go back
to last weekend. What did you make of the All
Black performance and what did you make I suppose of
the officiating.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Well, for sixty minutes, the All Blacks controlled that Test
and were clearly the better team. Then there was a
turning point in the game when South Africa were given
a try that wasn't and the television match official that
interfare in all other areas when he saw things told
(01:00):
the referee why didn't he bring that up? That concerns me?
And then following on in that vein, the All Blacks
were penalized almost off the park and a lot of
them were issues around the ruck and tackle situation. And
sa Viga didn't get penalized for doing exactly the same things.
(01:21):
So I would say very clearly the officiating of that
Test match was substandard.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Is that a case, Larry? I mean you grew up
where you were used to but with neutral referees now,
I mean, why does that happen? I suppose you know,
you can say yes, it's at Johannesburg, But the reality
is the official should be a neutral.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well they should be, and it's very hard for them
to be neutral. I guess when they're in such a
precious situation. The very good ones like Angis Gardener from
Australia just shut everything else out and concentrate on doing
their job and buy and lad say, you know, those
referees do a very good job, but that referee he didn't.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
What do you make a TMO, Larry? I mean you up,
you didn't have it the referees call. I mean many
times you could probably argue and rolling walls over the line?
Was it down with it? At least we knew it
was consistent, because in some ways it was inconsistent. What
do you make of the TMO?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Now, Well, if you want to get more accuracy, then
the TOMO can be useful, but it seems to be
like everything we're getting line umpires interfering now when they're
not needed. There's a certain amount of give and take
in a rugby match, so the television match official should
(02:38):
be consulted when the referee is unclear, when there's some
uncertainty about whether or not a try was scored and
the play leading up to that try, because if there
was a knock on or a forward bass then the
team shouldn't be rewarded for that. But that's for me,
that's the only time they should be involved in the game.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You spoke about the first sixty minutes of your Black
being the better side. What did you like that sixty minutes.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Laurie, Well, to put it bluntly, the All Blacks hooked
into it. They had more skill in getting themselves in
the attacking parts of the field and the tries they
scored were outstanding teamwork tries and defensively, they didn't give
South Africa the same opportunities do they.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
What changes then, if you're looking towards this weekend? What changes?
I mean not so much personnel because we've seen those.
Maybe we're talking a minute, but what do they need
to change then to be able to do that for
eighty minutes, knowing that you know fingers crossed that officiating
doesn't make those changes.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Okay, Well, here's the thing about playing at altitude. It
catches up with you. When you don't live at altitude,
or if you haven't been up there for two weeks
prior to a game, you know that you've got to
have a specific game plan for that last twenty minutes.
That slows the game down because you do run out
(04:05):
of energy. That's a fact. And we saw that the
All Blacks just lost their edge. Now coming into this
test match, it will be entirely different. Two reasons. Russia.
Rasmus the coach of the spring Box. He's clever and
he will have analyzed thoroughly why the All Blacks were
(04:26):
able to score the tries they scored, and he'll come
up with some pretty good ways of stopping that happening. Again,
some of them you can't because it comes from second, third,
fourth phase play and it just develops out of the
brilliance of the All Black players and it's very hard
(04:47):
to coach your team against that. But he will try
and stop those things happening. He'll be trying to work
out a way to stop the All Blacks getting four
or five phases in a row with room for their
backs to move. The All Blacks, well, they they've got
(05:07):
to expect that South Africa will come at them a
bit harder with some slightly different tactics. I wouldn't be
at orthurprised if there's not a lot of lot of
high kicks into midfield for them to chase, and they
will look to create and the reason for that that
they'll want to get the All Black backs just back
a little bit, not not rushing them defensively so much
(05:30):
in midfield. And then if the All Black backs do
buy that and drop back a little bit to cover
those high kicks, then the brilliance of some of those
young South African backs they'll get a bit of room
to move them. So there, that's sort of the game
that Scott Robinson's got to decide what they're going to
persist with through the game defensively and and how you know,
(05:56):
how they're going to counter what South Africa will want
to do.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, and maybe Laurie that's been signaled with Andro Pollard
starting also willing to rule back at fullback. I mean
they are I suppose the safe hands when it comes
to South Africa, the way they've played, haven't they in
the last probably seven years when it comes to I
suppose that trying to nullify the opposition to have any
attack because of their kick game and the way they play.
So maybe he signaled his cards by picking those two players.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, certainly by picking Andre Pollard, not so much LaRue,
but by picking Andre Pollard, he is showing telling the
All Blacks, well, we're not just going to run around
and let you create play from breakdowns and things like that.
We're going to keep this game pretty tight.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Remember, of course it's not an elder dude, so the
All Blacks won't be lacking an energy playing in Cape Town.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
No, that's right. And do you think the All Blacks,
I mean this is actually just off what you said.
I mean, I've done the same with cricket, where you
go over and you they're there for a short period
of time. You just about beat that four or five
day lag, Laurie when it comes to altitude or you
nearly need to be there two weeks. Do you think
the All Blacks could have gone over a little bit
earlier because it looked like they're just about in the
middle of that comfort zone.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, yes, and believe it or not, that's worse. Yeah,
what they used to what they what they used to
tell us to do was stay at sea level until
the day before the game. Then go up and don't train.
Don't use up the energy that's already stored in your body. Now,
whether there's been a change in physiological thinking or what,
(07:31):
I don't know, but going four or five days before
and training up there, well, in my day it was
frowned on as you're using up the player's energy and
they haven't got time to acclimatize for the high altitude.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah. Same, Well my day too, Lurie. And that's what
we used to do with cricket, exactly the same thing,
because you had that four day window where you just
had the wall. All back changes a couple of big ones.
Will Jordan back to fall back? I suppose Boden Barrett
onto the bench along with TJ Pirna. Do you like
the changes that the All Blacks have made.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I'm going to watch the half back one with interest.
I'm pretty keen on that player and he's quick, got
a quick long pass and that probably tells us that
the All Blacks are going to want to run it
a bit more, and of course will Jordin fallback. He
is great for creating play. I'm not so sure that
(08:28):
Boden Barrett should be on the reserves, but strategically he
may be there specifically to come on early in the
second half and bust the game open like he did
in that second Test against England. If the All Black
selectives had planned to use about it that way in
that second Test, then it certainly worked. And he's a
(08:51):
player that's capable of doing that personally. Under the pressure
of this Test match, I think I might have started
with Bowden at first five eighth, right, yeah, And I'm
not taking anything away from McKenzie. He's playing at the
top of his ability. But South Africa will target him now.
(09:14):
He's a small man and they'll try and tie things up,
make things a lot tighter, and they'll target him. Whereas Bowden,
Barrett is well, if you can tell me what he does,
you're a better man than me. He is so good
at taking what is on in this instant. This is
an opportunity, he'll take it. You can't read him, you know,
(09:38):
and he's big and strong.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays. We'll follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from news Talk z'd.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Be time to talk rugby on the program. Big Test
match for the All Blacks, the second one against South
Africa and if you want to find out what they
need to do well they form All Black. Coach form
All Black and a man who spent a lot of
time in Africa as Larry Mains and he joins me,
good evening, Lurry, how are.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You yeah, good evening, I'm well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well before we go to this weekend, let's go back
to last weekend. What did you make of the All
Black performance and what did you make I suppose of
the officiating.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Well, for sixty minutes, the All Blacks controlled that Test
and were clearly the better team. Then there was a
turning point in the game when South Africa were given
a try that wasn't and the television match official that
interfare in all other areas when he saw things told
(01:00):
the referee why didn't he bring that up? That concerns me?
And then following on in that vein, the All Blacks
were penalized almost off the park and a lot of
them were issues around the ruck and tackle situation. And
sa Viga didn't get penalized for doing exactly the same things.
(01:21):
So I would say very clearly the officiating of that
Test match was substandard.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Is that a case, Larry? I mean you grew up
where you were used to but with neutral referees now,
I mean, why does that happen? I suppose you know,
you can say yes, it's at Johannesburg, But the reality
is the official should be a neutral.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well they should be, and it's very hard for them
to be neutral. I guess when they're in such a
precious situation. The very good ones like Angis Gardener from
Australia just shut everything else out and concentrate on doing
their job and buy and lad say, you know, those
referees do a very good job, but that referee he didn't.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
What do you make a TMO, Larry? I mean you up,
you didn't have it the referees call. I mean many
times you could probably argue and rolling walls over the line?
Was it down with it? At least we knew it
was consistent, because in some ways it was inconsistent. What
do you make of the TMO?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Now, Well, if you want to get more accuracy, then
the TOMO can be useful, but it seems to be
like everything we're getting line umpires interfering now when they're
not needed. There's a certain amount of give and take
in a rugby match, so the television match official should
(02:38):
be consulted when the referee is unclear, when there's some
uncertainty about whether or not a try was scored and
the play leading up to that try, because if there
was a knock on or a forward bass then the
team shouldn't be rewarded for that. But that's for me,
that's the only time they should be involved in the game.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You spoke about the first sixty minutes of your Black
being the better side. What did you like that sixty minutes.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Laurie, Well, to put it bluntly, the All Blacks hooked
into it. They had more skill in getting themselves in
the attacking parts of the field and the tries they
scored were outstanding teamwork tries and defensively, they didn't give
South Africa the same opportunities do they.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
What changes then, if you're looking towards this weekend? What changes?
I mean not so much personnel because we've seen those.
Maybe we're talking a minute, but what do they need
to change then to be able to do that for
eighty minutes, knowing that you know fingers crossed that officiating
doesn't make those changes.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Okay, Well, here's the thing about playing at altitude. It
catches up with you. When you don't live at altitude,
or if you haven't been up there for two weeks
prior to a game, you know that you've got to
have a specific game plan for that last twenty minutes.
That slows the game down because you do run out
(04:05):
of energy. That's a fact. And we saw that the
All Blacks just lost their edge. Now coming into this
test match, it will be entirely different. Two reasons. Russia.
Rasmus the coach of the spring Box. He's clever and
he will have analyzed thoroughly why the All Blacks were
(04:26):
able to score the tries they scored, and he'll come
up with some pretty good ways of stopping that happening. Again,
some of them you can't because it comes from second, third,
fourth phase play and it just develops out of the
brilliance of the All Black players and it's very hard
(04:47):
to coach your team against that. But he will try
and stop those things happening. He'll be trying to work
out a way to stop the All Blacks getting four
or five phases in a row with room for their
backs to move. The All Blacks, well, they they've got
(05:07):
to expect that South Africa will come at them a
bit harder with some slightly different tactics. I wouldn't be
at orthurprised if there's not a lot of lot of
high kicks into midfield for them to chase, and they
will look to create and the reason for that that
they'll want to get the All Black backs just back
a little bit, not not rushing them defensively so much
(05:30):
in midfield. And then if the All Black backs do
buy that and drop back a little bit to cover
those high kicks, then the brilliance of some of those
young South African backs they'll get a bit of room
to move them. So there, that's sort of the game
that Scott Robinson's got to decide what they're going to
persist with through the game defensively and and how you know,
(05:56):
how they're going to counter what South Africa will want
to do.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, and maybe Laurie that's been signaled with Andro Pollard
starting also willing to rule back at fullback. I mean
they are I suppose the safe hands when it comes
to South Africa, the way they've played, haven't they in
the last probably seven years when it comes to I
suppose that trying to nullify the opposition to have any
attack because of their kick game and the way they play.
So maybe he signaled his cards by picking those two players.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, certainly by picking Andre Pollard, not so much LaRue,
but by picking Andre Pollard, he is showing telling the
All Blacks, well, we're not just going to run around
and let you create play from breakdowns and things like that.
We're going to keep this game pretty tight.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Remember, of course it's not an elder dude, so the
All Blacks won't be lacking an energy playing in Cape Town.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
No, that's right. And do you think the All Blacks,
I mean this is actually just off what you said.
I mean, I've done the same with cricket, where you
go over and you they're there for a short period
of time. You just about beat that four or five
day lag, Laurie when it comes to altitude or you
nearly need to be there two weeks. Do you think
the All Blacks could have gone over a little bit
earlier because it looked like they're just about in the
middle of that comfort zone.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, yes, and believe it or not, that's worse. Yeah,
what they used to what they what they used to
tell us to do was stay at sea level until
the day before the game. Then go up and don't train.
Don't use up the energy that's already stored in your body. Now,
whether there's been a change in physiological thinking or what,
(07:31):
I don't know, but going four or five days before
and training up there, well, in my day it was
frowned on as you're using up the player's energy and
they haven't got time to acclimatize for the high altitude.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah. Same, Well my day too, Lurie. And that's what
we used to do with cricket, exactly the same thing,
because you had that four day window where you just
had the wall. All back changes a couple of big ones.
Will Jordan back to fall back? I suppose Boden Barrett
onto the bench along with TJ Pirna. Do you like
the changes that the All Blacks have made.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I'm going to watch the half back one with interest.
I'm pretty keen on that player and he's quick, got
a quick long pass and that probably tells us that
the All Blacks are going to want to run it
a bit more, and of course will Jordin fallback. He
is great for creating play. I'm not so sure that
(08:28):
Boden Barrett should be on the reserves, but strategically he
may be there specifically to come on early in the
second half and bust the game open like he did
in that second Test against England. If the All Black
selectives had planned to use about it that way in
that second Test, then it certainly worked. And he's a
(08:51):
player that's capable of doing that personally. Under the pressure
of this Test match, I think I might have started
with Bowden at first five eighth, right, yeah, And I'm
not taking anything away from McKenzie. He's playing at the
top of his ability. But South Africa will target him now.
(09:14):
He's a small man and they'll try and tie things up,
make things a lot tighter, and they'll target him. Whereas Bowden,
Barrett is well, if you can tell me what he does,
you're a better man than me. He is so good
at taking what is on in this instant. This is
an opportunity, he'll take it. You can't read him, you know,
(09:38):
and he's big and strong.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays. We'll follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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