September 17, 2024 • 39 mins
ZB's own D'Arcy Waldegrave returns to recap a full day in the world of sport! Highlights for tonight include:
NZ Herald rugby writer Gregor Paul wonders if fans are becoming complacent around the All Blacks.
Black Caps Assistant Coach Luke Ronchi ahead of the Sri Lanka test series starting Wednesday afternoon.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Just so I don't forget what I do. My name's
Darcy Walder Graves. Coming up seven after seven, Tuesday evening,
seventeenth of September twenty twenty four. Coming up on this
evening's program, rugby cricket. Now all bases covered. I can
go home now what are we doing? Later on the
Peace will catch up with Luke Can Do No Ronkey,
(00:58):
assistant coach of the black Caps, execute to play cricket tomorrow.
Find out what the weather's going to do too. He's
probably a better position to know that we are and
the weirdness that is. It's a rest and a test
those of you slightly longer and the tooth will remember these.
I remember back in the seventies and I was a kid,
(01:20):
were doing play play. It wasn't great for my ADHD.
Then it won't be for it either this time around.
But death there's an election going on, so we'll talk
with Can Do No Wrong you about that later and
the piece up. First we'll go to Gregor Paul, a
New Zealand Herald writer. Of course, I writes predominantly rugby,
and look at the tolerance aspect of being an all
(01:42):
black rugby fan. Talk about the ability to be tolerant,
whether it's just an accepted notion now that everyone else
is caught up, and what on earth can the all
Blacks do to go back to the glory days if
indeed there is a path back to the future, if
you know what I mean, and we'll take your calls
(02:03):
on that you're beaten by the Australians this weekend. Is
that any worse in getting beaten by Argentina when they
beat us at home a couple of years ago. Is
it any worse than losing a Test series at home
to someone we've never lost to before. Are we really
actually carrying this okay or not? Your calls on that
are one hundred and eighty ten eighty up after we
(02:25):
hear from Gregor Paul text nineteen ninety two that is
z B z B always welcome, standard text charge will apply.
Of course, there's also the vexed discussion around sabbaticals and
maybe letting players go and picking them from overseas and
that might solve our problem. Well, that's another story before
(02:46):
we do any of that, though, let's do a bunch
of these sport today, and in sport today, the current
inform all Black go to. That's the hooker. Cody Taylor
is well aware of the room dwelling elephant, the primary
reason for the team's recent woes.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yeah, I think we're creating a lot of opportunities, just
a matter of finishing them, I think, which has been
a common trend in our reviews of late. And you know,
we want to attack with the ball and stuff, and
we just got to be better at now in those
those opportunities, especially towards the back end of the game.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Patients grasshopper is the mantra for Black Cap Glean Phillips
ahead of the first teast against Sri Lanka underway. We
hope tomorrow afternoon back.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Time we have the green seemers where the past bowlers
have to have that sort of patience and that's not
necessarily going to happen straight away, even though the conditions
are in your favor.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
So for us, it's about going out there bawling one
ball at a time. I love hearing Phillips talking about
Patients brings joy in my heart. New Auckland City a
league signing Louis Vastrata is out of his comfort zone.
Not on the pitch, he's just out of his own
hemisphere so.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Far as away. I believe it was one city, Antwerp.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
The way it was a forty minute.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
So yeah, sometimes when you yeah, I was thrown in
the the deep, you know, sometimes like this.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
He's one of three new signings for the club. Season
gets underway in a few weeks. What is it, nineteenth
twentieth of October. Off the top of my head and
break his import, Freddie, let's be delivered a Liverpool kiss
to Kings player Sean Bruce in a pre session match.
He's not playing and he's not happy.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
That it breaks my heart.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I'm trying to stay positive and trying to keep a
good act about it, but if I'm being perfectly honest,
I'm in hurts.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
College Scotch always told me folks that you can't control.
You can focus on your attitude, showing up your emotions
and to only playing myself.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I'll just add to that, Freddy, you can also can
control not head budding people. And you said it breaks
your heart and it hurts. What about Sean Bruce? How's
he feeling? And that's Scott Today time out to introduce
to the Fray mister Gregor Paul from a New Zealand
(04:51):
Herald premiere rugby writer and it's good to chat with you, Gregor.
I trust you well and looking forward to what's going
to happen this weekend at the very odd time of
a quarter to six or somethinghow strange.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Welcome though.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
I think an afternoon kick sun might be shining in Sydney,
so that's a nice little change, I think, and welcome
a few more of those.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
And look, yeah, I think we'll get a good game.
Speaker 6 (05:17):
I know that we've got some issues across the Tasman
about what quality we're going to get out of the
Australians and they were walloped in the last Encaranna in Argentina,
which doesn't board particularly well. But I do have a
feeling that the stadium and Sydney will be close to
being full.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That will get the best out of the Wallabies.
Speaker 6 (05:36):
They just need to look at those black jerseys and
that will get a bit more out of them. Here
the hacker, that'll get a bit more out of them
and we'll hopefully see whatever this Australian team's got in it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I think they'll get it all out.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
He wrote a piece today in The Herald worth talking
about and it's based essently on tolerance, tolerance of the
All Blacks and their results post COVID, suggesting there was
none previously. But now as a nation of sports fans
of rugby, we can almost accept that the Orb's going
to get beaten from time to time and that's okay. Oh,
(06:12):
how things have changed.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Great.
Speaker 6 (06:14):
Maybe you've grown up as a nation, darc I don't know,
You've got other things to do. Maybe COVID was a
sort of realization that there is more in the world
than rugby, and it was just it was a moment
to reset everybody and recalibrate expectations and realize as you
go around the world that you know, there's no inherent
(06:35):
reason to believe that the old ecks will always be
better than everyone else.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You've got to earn that right.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
You've got to keep developing your own systems, your own players,
your own coaches to stay ahead of everyone else. And
there's no doubt that what has also happened is that
we've seen real growth, particularly in Ireland South Africa.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I've had Purple Patch.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
Mean, they've always been a very strong rugby nation, but
they're in a real purple patch at the moment where
they're at the French hosting the World Cup. We saw
them thrive become a different time type of nation in
terms of how much resource and connection they had with
their team. England have been on and off, but they're
predominantly you know again when they're on, they're very good.
(07:16):
And so I think maybe there's a realization out there
mentioned Argentina, you know, who've improved as well. Realization maybe
that New Zealand's dominance is something that cannot be taken
for granted, it is completely unrealistic, and that there has
to be a sense of what can we tolerate here?
(07:37):
Where can we realistically put a line and say, well, okay,
the odd defeat to South Africa, that's okay, But what
about if we start losing regularly to Australia?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
How do we feel about that?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Unlikely considering the state there incurrently, but not to say
it won't occur. So in acceptance from the rugby public,
but surely looking back and going why were we so good?
Why can't we keep one step ahead of the opposition,
because they always have what's altered post COVID do you think.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
Gregor, Well, there'll be a lot of reasons well to
go through around it.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Clearly Super rugby's reconfigured.
Speaker 6 (08:18):
We can debate this forever, but there's no doubt that
it's weakened the competition. Let's not get into who's to
blame for that, but let's just be realistic. It's not
the competition it was without the South African teams in it.
From a high performance perspective, New Zealand's under exposed to
the body tights, the sizes and strategies it's going to
that the players will encounter in the Test arena and
(08:40):
Australia are really really quite weak at the moment, which
doubles down on that he take South Africa out and
put them into the European competition. That's a double whammy.
It's like an intercept on your own goal line, isn't it.
You're about to get seven and you're can seeing seven
down the other end. Because they're benefiting Ireland, Scotland, Wales.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Italy by having their teams over there.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
The isolation didn't help New Zealand, you know, not having
players exposed to why enough, Gene Paul, maybe the eligibility
policy needs to be reviewed because maybe we're losing players
at an earlier age, key players, Richie Muwanga, Shannon Frazel.
You know, you could even argue that Aaron Smith probably
Retalic have gone a year or two earlier than the Perhaps,
(09:24):
you know, they could still be playing international rugby despite
the fact that they're in Japan.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
So maybe that has to be looked at.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
And just maybe generally we need to look at the
whole development program internally and ask are we getting the
right people and the right jobs.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Are we innovative enough?
Speaker 6 (09:40):
You know, are we changing the type of rugby enough
to keep everyone else guessing?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Greg Apaul from his in on Hell joins the program.
It's almost as if haven't quite hit rock bottom. But
it might have to take that before change is swept in.
Now you mentioned the prickly subject of eligibility. This keeps
coming up over and over again. Just the Master was
on breakdown talking about it over the a weekend. Is
(10:07):
it time for us to forget about the tradition and
to actually move forward? And you know what everyone else
is doing, We've just got to play catch up.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
I don't know about a blanket lifting because the ramifications
of that could be significantly damaging. And I don't think
because everyone else is doing it is a strong enough
rationale for New Zealand to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I do, however, think that you.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
Have to say, well, you've made a decision to take
a private equity investor on silver Lake, and the whole
rationale there is to generate cash via the all Blacks
that will filter back into the whole of the ecosystem.
So everything is dependent on the all Blacks being successful.
That is your whole rugby environment built on that one preface.
(10:50):
So you've got to ask on the on the back
of that, does your eligibility policy make sense given the
importance you've attached to winning test matches And the answer
there would be probably not anymore. And could you allow
some kind of loosening of the relations which already occurs,
you know, via the sabbatical process where guys are able
(11:11):
b Ardisavia, Sam Kaine, all of them played in Japan
this year but were deemed eligible on the on the
basis that they serve longer term contracts to come home.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
What's the difference.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
Between that and Richie Muwanga doing it for three seasons
in Japan and not coming back to play Super Rugby,
but just playing in Japan and being.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Eligible for the All Blacks.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
If you create a system where you say, how about
we have eligibility in Super Rugby and say if you're
playing in Super Rugby, you're eligible to be playing for
the All Blacks, and or look at a cap and
say at their boards discretion, the All Black coach will
be able to pick up to two or three players
who are currently not playing in Super Rugby. You know,
(11:56):
if guys go to Europe or France to play whatever,
you can do it that with it.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You can control it.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
And then you've got the ability to put to bolster
a team a little bit and ensure that you can
and you can win games and develop for the future
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And that's the key.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
You've you've got to win now and you've got to
be preparing your team to win tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
That's what all black cultures have to do.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
You look at South Africa, they've kind of got away
for the last twelve years just winning World Cups. Look
at the record in between World Cups really not very good,
not much above fifty percent between World Cups. But they've
got to World Cups the winner, everyone's happy. New Zealand
can't do that. New Zealand needs to win between World
Cups and ideally at World Cups.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So you've got to find a way to win today,
but plan for tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
So the eligibility laws change. What effect does that have
at a at a grassroots, at a New Zealand level,
because that's been the age old argument we need our
stars playing at home. That's good for the brand, is
that something can still be leaned on, maybe even with
slight adjustments.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
Yeah, there's still really good players playing in your own
The fact that this year you had three high profile
names all playing in Japan outside of Super Rugby anyway,
Barrett Bon Barrett Ardie Savio, Sam King. So no one's
kicking up a fuss about that that they missed one season.
Next year Joradi Barrett will be missing and that Padam
will continue, will be Rickle Yanni the year after that,
(13:23):
or whoever it's going to be. We're going to see
these sabbatical deals where the top players take take a
season out of Super Rugby as it is anyway, So
you're not you know, it's not absolute starting. We're not
talking about taking you know, fifteen all blacks out of
the competition for the you know, for the for the
entire duration, one of the two guys missing. Yeah, no problem.
Look what happened this year? Ardi goes off to Japan
(13:45):
and look at the Look at the hurricanes backro Look
what happened Peter Lacai and Brain. You'll say, they come
flying through because they get game time. All of a sudden,
You've given young guys the opportunity that they couldn't get
with Ardi being here, and you're and you're building depth.
You're building new guys that you can market, promote and
brand fantastic. So a little bit of common sense tells me,
(14:07):
as long as you don't open the floodgates and say
you can all go, then I think you can afford
to have because it's already happening. You can afford to
have three to four to five players heading offshore, and
you're leaving a little bit of breathing space for the
next guy to come through. Look at two Purvai this year.
He's performing brilliantly because he's got a chance because Brody
(14:27):
Retaler and Sam Whitelock have retired.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And that is that the whole premise of the New
Zealand system is.
Speaker 6 (14:34):
That then you know, you chop one tree down, the
next one comes through and it grows up to be strong.
And we've seen that through time immemorial and that's what
you've got to promote and doing a little bit of
this to sort of fast track that, you know, guys
heading away for the club rugby creates openings and opportunities
for the next guys to come through.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
At Super Rugby.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
DMO, we've got the breakdowns on Sports Talk.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
And one of the voice was Greg Paul Rugby right
for New Zealand Herald are taking a look at New
Zealand's rugby where it sits at an international level currently
talking about the acceptance and the tolerance of New Zealand
fans to realize where New Zealand rugby is in the
widest scheme of things and to take that on board,
(15:29):
that's a bitter pill to swallow. Is it accurate? I
don't think we're going to find out a great deal
over the weekend, unless, of course, Australia roll the all blacks,
in which case it's all hands to the decks. It's
an emergency. We're all sinking. I don't think that will happen.
It might even paper over some of the cracks we've seen.
We will see so many reasons for this, and I
(15:53):
don't think this is knee jerk reaction to the results
in South Africa. Al it's very difficult to win over there.
But as Gregor points out, since COVID, things haven't been
great for news, haven't been great for the All Blacks.
He talked about Silverlake and taking the money there, and
(16:14):
the pyramid works at the All Blacks being absolutely in
the top at the top of that. They have to be,
they have to be the best of the world. Otherwise
that relationship falls away, and eligibility may just be the
silver bullet to that. And that's a conversation he may
have later on. But first up, are you accepting of
(16:36):
this as a rugby fan? Can you sit there and
take a deep breath and go, well, we're.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
Not that good at the moment, but I remember, and
you will all remember only a handful of years ago,
and the All Blacks were thrashing everybody in sight, and
there were lots of people saying this is boring, we
need some competition.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Well, it'll happen, and I don't think you'll be so
bored then you'll be upset, But maybe not upset, maybe
just tolerating what's going on, because that is where rugby's
out of the moment, victims of a lackluster Super rugby competition,
of a northern surge of talent all Black rugby and
(17:20):
means that are capable of a resurgence, capable of the
action required to get New Zealand back to the top
of the pile again, and all of these excuses. I
don't like the sound of the All Blacks being victims
of everything else? So do I accept it? Will I
(17:45):
tolerate it? No, lived through some extraordinary times, an amazing
team that's given us so much joy, so much excitement,
so many reasons to be proud of our national side,
and watching it thin out, watching it being taken from
(18:07):
us by other teams, it's really uncomfortable. I don't like it.
I accept that it's happening. I don't like that it's happening.
Can it be turned around? What do you think? Will
you tolerate this? Can you just go on? It's just rugby?
She's right, I mean, it's the passion still there. I
don't like it. I won't tolerate it, and I don't
believe that it can't change. I think it should. I
(18:29):
think it will when I think ends R and the
All Blacks have got the capabilities to do this, but
they have to make some big change in order to
get there. The rest of the world is caught up
and probably run around the corner.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
What do we do?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Are you going to tolerate this? Are you accepting of
what's going on in All Black rugby right now? Our
eight hundred eighty ten eighty lines are open nineteen nine two.
That's the text line, of course, your standards text charge
really interested in your calls on this? How are you
taking this? Ay, you're right, you're good. Twenty five minutes
after seven.
Speaker 8 (19:06):
That we don't go mines and again it's just enough,
It's fine, Good time.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You forget the riffs call. You make a call on
sports Talk on your home of sport use Talks.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
It be talk.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Again. Five on a Saturday afternoon slash evening. Strange but good. Right,
when the All Blacks are playing Bledisloe come up against
the Australians, odd but kind of joyous. I suppose to
(19:55):
see a bit of daylight football, would see if it doesn't
rain over in Sydney. I want to know, are you
accepting or are you tolerating what's happening at an all
black level. It's not just a few bad results at
the start of the year. The results have been fair
to middling suboptimal for quite some time now. It's not
(20:18):
a surprise. It didn't just leap out from an alley
and beat us with a cosh. We could see this.
We know what's happening. And a lot of the argument
has been around we've lost several once in a generation players.
It's very, very hard to build a team, and you
lose the likes of your maccaws and your katers and
your canals and the like. How do we move on?
(20:40):
There's been accusations around being victims of Super Rugby and
what's happened there, and as Gregor pointed out, there's no
point in going to an argument who's responsible. Super Rugby
is struggling because the South Africans aren't there. So the
quality of the international players isn't quite as high as
it used to be because they're not used to dealing
(21:02):
with on a day to day basis. While I have a
Super Rugby season anyway, of the style of rugby that
those enormous scary South African spring There's not a player's fault.
We've got Australia who are very weak and that doesn't
help anything either. How do you re establish the dominance
(21:24):
that this team once had? Can we re establish that dominance?
So this might be one of those distant memories you
sit down and tell your grandkids, Well, back in the day,
Ill Blacks had a ninety something percent winning record. Wow,
it's amazing. I just wonder how long it lasts before
(21:49):
there has to be a monumental shift and priorities and
policy from men Ze are in order to get back
up to the top of the world and become that
team that put the hebgb's off everybody else scared teams,
they're almost mentally beaten before they got on the park. Again,
(22:14):
this may have been lost. During that conversation with Gregor Paul,
the eligibility word came up and it is as simple
as that, in order to re establish some form of dominance,
New Zealand have to let go of their stance on
(22:34):
eligibility because they will be left behind. Now Gregor said,
it's not a case of their doing it so so
should we. So in your kid you want to jump
off the roof into the pool and my mates all
do it. Well, if your mates were in a car act,
you want to do that too.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
You don't.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
But this is it's a global game, and the international
teams are peppered with global players that have played all
over the world and they bring that talent back to
their homeland and apply that to internationals the Argentines for example. Now,
I've never liked the idea of players being allowed to
(23:12):
go overseas and being picked all overseas because the catastrophe
behind that would be we lose everybody. They all disappear
and suddenly this rich base that you used to have
is gone because nobody aspires to being all black. Because
your heroes aren't there, you can't go and watch them
at you you're in PC level, your Super Rugby level.
(23:35):
But let's face it, there's not aiming anyway, right, we
don't get to see in PC le Well, you get
to see the upcomers. That's fine. Super Rugby you get
for three months. So is it is it necessary to
keep a lot of these players here? And I think
that the point that Gregor made around a step system
(23:58):
slowly but surely working this eligibility in so we don't
find ourselves breaft of quality players at the end of
a World Cup cycle because they want to go off
from cash a check and surely there's got to be
a way of feeding that in. I don't know if
this country can survive stoically saying pretty much no to
everybody unless they're a superstar, like an Artie sav or
(24:21):
a Richie Moner on the lake. It might just be
the silver bullet. It's a big shift and policy and idea,
but it might be the most necessary one we've got.
And I wonder if he's in it a capable of
action and that needs to do that. So what what
(24:41):
does it take? You're a rugby fan. You sit in
there and you think they're okay. I might not. I
might watch that the crowds have been going down, and
what the TV numbers are? Like you just accepting this
now and going you know what, yah, the one sudden
they lose something doesn't really matter. And there's also, of
course the nature of all these other sports, and let's
(25:05):
not forget the power of rugby league and when you
look at the players coming through, they have an opportunity.
Maybe you've gone to Australia just over the ditch and
making a whole lot of money and going, well, you
know what, I think I'd rather do that. Oh, one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. The lines are open. It
is at seven point thirty four. I've got piles of texts.
(25:25):
I run through a couple of those, or take your calls.
You can't keep blaming the All Blacks performance on losing
generational players like McCaw and Carton. Kind of except those
guys left eight years ago. This year was in New
Zealand and Australia are still trying to play running rugby.
The rest of the world is now big Fords bashing
up the middle. Middle argies are kind of half and half.
(25:47):
The All Blacks need bigger Fords to go back and
go back to pick and go rugby from the mccare era.
Ford's taken up to twenty two release it to the back.
So it's a style problem there. But if we've got
players playing overseas and bringing that back and we've exposed
to that, maybe that does help. Maybe too much of
(26:08):
an outlander this this this is an island nation now
and maybe they're all on their own. Good Graham, how are.
Speaker 9 (26:13):
You Tom got Well does for yourself?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, not so bad. I just such a vexed issue.
I've got to be talking about simple Okay, good.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
I like you, Grahame.
Speaker 9 (26:22):
It's a simple all the way to pop where they
turned down the Telkington report right, the board and the
and the executive structure is not set for purpose. That
was the talking report. They chose to ignore it. That's
your problem. Get to the board.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I'm not going to argue here, Graham, because it was
roundly said right across all the experts is this is wrong.
You've got to get it right. And what do they do? Nothing?
Speaker 9 (26:46):
Voted against it for self serving, right Rob Nicholas. Rob
Nicholas Side, who seems to be an outstanding individual and administrator.
The report was quite clear, you're all not set for purpose.
And now you've been run by people that are not.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Set for purpose. It's not gonna work.
Speaker 9 (27:01):
It's going to crumble.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I should have gone back to that and thought, Graham,
thanks very much that because it's true it's not being
managed correctly, because it's got a as you said, not
for the purpose board. It doesn't matter what ideas we
come up with.
Speaker 9 (27:15):
An executive structure too, right, like the you know, the
CEO is clearly out of the stepped internationally and industrial.
It's just that's the problem. It's like any company, right,
the company fails of course the people on the board
and the people in the exective structure, not because the
hard working go on the ground, right.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
The people that run it, they're responsible for the direction
and the energy from the top. So by blaming the
players down under there, so it's beyond them, right because
they are as you said they'd the workforce.
Speaker 9 (27:39):
Yeah, they're doing the best, right, they're doing in the
world class clothes.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Right.
Speaker 9 (27:45):
That's my two cents for you. But that that's where
the problem is. And it will slowly die unless they
really take it on. But it will try, probably take
it on about ten years time.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's too when it's too late you Graham Hay, thanks
so much for that call, and really interesting, is it
too late? Well, they don't want it die before they
actually try and revive the corpse. Thanks Graham, good it. Roger.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
Yeah, Hi, Darcy, I've got a slightly different edge. I guess.
I think it's very positive that I think we've lost
three games out of the last four? Is that correct?
Because I don't think there's the World Cup when we
were winning everything I think was Hansome's second term and
(28:25):
we got dumped in the semi finals. And I think
having a bit of adversity at this stage makes the
players and the coaching staff actually set up and they'll
have to work harder and smarter and learn lots.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think wouldn't that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
When when the All Blacks before the World Cup under
Foster had lost to Argentina the first time over here
in Lost Island series? That surely that was a punch
in the phase, wasn't it? Or they're not taking any
notice of that?
Speaker 5 (28:57):
I think it was marvelous. Where did we come in
that World Cup?
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Second?
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Yeah, that's still.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
They still didn't win. I mean you've got to go
and black and white, don't you for those? Did you win?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
No?
Speaker 3 (29:11):
We were close, he didn't win. Maybe I'm a bit harsh,
but did they learn much of your last lessons or not?
What did they pay?
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Well? I think Foster's team exceeded the vast majority of
people's expectations in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
I'll agree with you all that.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I would say, though, with just to continue to slightly
all track. I think when Robertson got the job, we
were told he was the best coach in the world,
without a doubt, and we know that because he told us,
and so he is actually having to step back from
was it seven years with the Crusaders winning or whatever,
it was a long time and face some different realities
(29:53):
where hang on, It's not that I haven't got the
same culture as I had at the Crusaders, because I've
got people from all the different teams. I'm going to
have to work a little bit differently to get it
all to go. And as you said before, we've introduced
some younger players this time. They'll be learning off the
old guys, and by the time we get to the
(30:14):
next World Cup, which is important one, I think the
team will be a lot stronger than a hell of
a lot better.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
I'm not going to disagree with you on this. I
think that what Razor Robinson's got is his ability to
build a culture and the team, and it's probably taken
him a little longer than he'd expected, a little longer
that we like. I think that in Roger, thanks very
much for your call. I don't think he said he
was the best coach in the world. I think it
was our fault, wasn't it. It was the best super
(30:44):
rugby coach that's ever been seen. The best results of
any super have ever been seen. It's going to take
a while, So does it need to be crushed and rebuilt?
I'll go back to Gray him on that. If the
structure around it is simply not strong enough or effective enough,
(31:04):
what hope is there for the working guy regardless of
the changes. That that's a great call, grame Old Pilkington report.
It's twenty away from eight coming up next to Luke
Ronkey joins us, assistant coach of the black Caps. They
might even play cricket tomorrow. Wow, crazy baby. What's the forecast?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Luke?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Tell us what the forecasters? News talks EB it's sixth
(31:52):
and away from AIDS, news talks e B talking cricket
now black Caps in action. Well we hope so anyway,
first test of two up against that stri Lanka over intremaker.
We're joined by the assistant coach, Luke A Ronky Luke,
Welcome to the program. Cut to the chase. Please tell
me the forecast is good.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yes, thanks for having me. It is.
Speaker 8 (32:12):
It's a lot better obviously what it was and against
the Afrigha, and so it's it's I think everyone's really
excited for the fact of getting some test cricket under underway.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Look, I don't want to dwell on that washed out
test because it was a disaster. But from a mental standpoint,
how was that for you and the players? Five days
of not really knowing, five days of out and out bortom,
five days of frustration. That's probably quite a difficult few
days to go through.
Speaker 8 (32:38):
Yeah, it is, because again, like everyone like you do
all the prep, you're already and mentally like right on
this day is when we're going to start sort of
a big test block for us, and the guys are excited.
But then you can sort of also tell early on
with the way the ground was looking in the weather
about it's like it was going to be quite a
difficult little period. And then it just kept raining like
it was. The unfortunate thing is we'ld have some some
(33:00):
sunny days, but it would rain overnight. And then obviously
the last few days there was actually no change because
it rained during the day anyway. But the guys were
just like that, just I guess each each evening almost
sort of like mentally prep thinking that right tomorrow we
could be on let's just see what happens, and then
obviously that would all change. But the guys that they
did really well to sort of make sure that they
were up and ready to go if needs be.
Speaker 10 (33:22):
But you can see like just they're changing our like
in our moods.
Speaker 8 (33:25):
Once we've got to Sri Lanka where you're outside a
little bit more and you're sort of the weather's different,
you're ready for it for something a different challenge, and
then the guys are sort of raring to go.
Speaker 10 (33:33):
The trainings have been great and again the guys are
all excited for tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
What's looking like as far as the deck. You're not
going to tell me the team you never do. I'm
almost going to give up asking, but give us an
idea about what we've got out there in the middle.
Start laughing at me, Luke.
Speaker 10 (33:49):
No, it's good that you've worked it out.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Come on a twenty years. I'll try all sorts of
ways of do I'm going to work. Tell us about
the deck. What's it going to do?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Luke?
Speaker 8 (33:57):
Traditionally here is it's a spinning surface. The fast bowlers
don't that' have massive workloads at this place. But again
it gets hot and the spinners have a big role
to play in the match and making sure that the
runs are hard to score for any batters. And I
guess it can be just that atricious type of cricket
where you know you could be out there for a
long time in the heat and understanding your roles with
(34:20):
the ball fast ballers.
Speaker 10 (34:21):
It's short, sharp, sort of impactful.
Speaker 8 (34:23):
Little spells, and then the spinners get into a into
a mode of just hitting a spot and asking question
of batters for a long long periods of time. So
it can be a little bit more old school sort
of test cricket, but I love that sort of Test cricket.
I think that sort of it's where you see different
skill sets come out and different tactical things happen. You're
going to work out over five days how to make
the most of their conditions and sort of get your
(34:45):
side in a pointing in the right direction to try
and get a result that you're after.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
You've got plenty of tweakers in the team, some of
them have all round roles, so I suppose that determines
the selection of the spinners that don't bat so well.
Is it down to maybe just one that might get
the nod You're going to maybe attack full noise with
all of your.
Speaker 10 (35:08):
You're saying it with a few little slow just oh well.
Speaker 8 (35:11):
But we are in a position, like you said, we're
lucky enough with we do have some more round like
spin options as well. So we've got all these different
options up our sleeve, and that it is making sure
that the combinations and what we're after and it works,
I guess against the opposition that you're planning against as well.
So I mean, as you know, those are all the
questions and thoughts that go through Steady and Tim's mind
(35:32):
and the conversations with senior players and what they sort
of look in the wicket. And also we're lucky enough
to have rung at a Haras with us at the
moment for these for these tests as well, So using
his knowledge of the surface and the ground and picking
his brakes obviously took a lot of test.
Speaker 10 (35:46):
Wik It's hairsts like, right.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
We've got enough understanding of what's about and we just
sort of pick accordingly.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Really hopefully, Luke Ronkey, what do you know about Sri
Lanka and their form.
Speaker 8 (35:55):
Well, obviously they've just been in England. They had a
good Test win to finish off the series over there,
so they'll be coming in full of confidence and buzzing
after after winning over there.
Speaker 10 (36:05):
At the Oval sets. So it's going to be a
fantastic series.
Speaker 8 (36:07):
It's again it's it's big for both teams with World
Test Championship points going and it's excited and we're in
their conditions. They know this ground well and it's I
think that's the best part of it as everyone's coming
into this with full confidence and excited for a challenge
from both teams.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Play me, picking the turn is going to be the
difficult thing and more time spent on the deck the better.
But with the weather you've had, I'm presuming not a
great deal of time outside in those conditions. Maybe an
insight have you prepped this from a batting perspective.
Speaker 10 (36:43):
We've been quite lucky with the facilities at home.
Speaker 8 (36:46):
We had three camps leading into to coming over this
way and we're like the peeps looking after all. The
wickets were awesome in terms of making them turn and
balance and a bit slow and different surfaces. To prep
the guys as much as we could, so then it's
like just challenging guys in different ways and trying to
come up with different plans.
Speaker 10 (37:08):
Just to combat what we might face here.
Speaker 8 (37:10):
So then it's like you sort of you go from
extremes and training, so then you get into a game
and hopefully everyone's trusting the work they've done, and it's
it's just like they go into a zone and that
they have their plan A and they adapt from there.
So again it's it's seeing what the surface does and
and changing if you need to. If not, you just
stick to your guns and hopefully the guys have done
(37:30):
all the work. We've had some good trainings here for
last two days. I've got one more today, and it's
just realized it's just honing in those your processes that
you want to go through before a match and trusting
the work you've done.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
You say a good training, Tell me what that means
when you walk away? What do you remember and go
actually that worked? I mean the difference between good and bad?
Is he much in it?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Luke?
Speaker 8 (37:52):
Well, it depends for each person, because I mean some
guys they might hit for fifteen minutes and be happy
as and then they trust others. They still trust what
they do, but they need they want to bat for
forty five minutes and then they have extras after that.
Speaker 10 (38:04):
So it's each person is is their own individual.
Speaker 8 (38:07):
They try to get what they can out of a
training session and again they obviously as part of what
everyone wants to face, our spinners, they want to face
the net Bowl as we have that the local spinners
that they've got high quality spinners that come to trainings and.
Speaker 10 (38:19):
Help us out as well.
Speaker 8 (38:20):
So there's this the little things that I guess just
it makes guys in their minds feel a lot more
comfortable and happy with the work and the prep they've
done leading into a Test match. So again, each person
is so different, so it's as long as each person
is happy with how they've prepped, then I'm happy as Larry.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Haven't you got a restay because of a presidential election?
How does that work for you?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Guys?
Speaker 8 (38:39):
Well, it's yeah, well it's going to be something no
one's No one was around when that lasts happened, that's
for sure.
Speaker 10 (38:44):
So yeah, it's on day or the three.
Speaker 8 (38:47):
I think we play Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, have Saturday off,
then play Sunday Monday. So yeah, it's it's something different,
But again it's I guess it's it's there's nothing you
can do about it. Just get into it, and you
understand that that day it might be the perfect time
for the rest. We might have been in the field
for two days and we need to have a little
bit of a restock and a sit down and things,
and again we might be batting and going around our business.
Speaker 10 (39:08):
So it's going to be interesting.
Speaker 8 (39:10):
I don't think, well, no one actually knows what's going
to happen or how it's going to work.
Speaker 10 (39:14):
So we'll just see you.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Hear it from the biggest names in sports and have
your say on eight hundred eighty Sports Talk or more
on your home of sports News talks it Be. For
more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks it
Be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Just so I don't forget what I do. My name's
Darcy Walder Graves. Coming up seven after seven, Tuesday evening,
seventeenth of September twenty twenty four. Coming up on this
evening's program, rugby cricket. Now all bases covered. I can
go home now what are we doing? Later on the
Peace will catch up with Luke Can Do No Ronkey,
(00:58):
assistant coach of the black Caps, execute to play cricket tomorrow.
Find out what the weather's going to do too. He's
probably a better position to know that we are and
the weirdness that is. It's a rest and a test
those of you slightly longer and the tooth will remember these.
I remember back in the seventies and I was a kid,
(01:20):
were doing play play. It wasn't great for my ADHD.
Then it won't be for it either this time around.
But death there's an election going on, so we'll talk
with Can Do No Wrong you about that later and
the piece up. First we'll go to Gregor Paul, a
New Zealand Herald writer. Of course, I writes predominantly rugby,
and look at the tolerance aspect of being an all
(01:42):
black rugby fan. Talk about the ability to be tolerant,
whether it's just an accepted notion now that everyone else
is caught up, and what on earth can the all
Blacks do to go back to the glory days if
indeed there is a path back to the future, if
you know what I mean, and we'll take your calls
(02:03):
on that you're beaten by the Australians this weekend. Is
that any worse in getting beaten by Argentina when they
beat us at home a couple of years ago. Is
it any worse than losing a Test series at home
to someone we've never lost to before. Are we really
actually carrying this okay or not? Your calls on that
are one hundred and eighty ten eighty up after we
(02:25):
hear from Gregor Paul text nineteen ninety two that is
z B z B always welcome, standard text charge will apply.
Of course, there's also the vexed discussion around sabbaticals and
maybe letting players go and picking them from overseas and
that might solve our problem. Well, that's another story before
(02:46):
we do any of that, though, let's do a bunch
of these sport today, and in sport today, the current
inform all Black go to. That's the hooker. Cody Taylor
is well aware of the room dwelling elephant, the primary
reason for the team's recent woes.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yeah, I think we're creating a lot of opportunities, just
a matter of finishing them, I think, which has been
a common trend in our reviews of late. And you know,
we want to attack with the ball and stuff, and
we just got to be better at now in those
those opportunities, especially towards the back end of the game.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Patients grasshopper is the mantra for Black Cap Glean Phillips
ahead of the first teast against Sri Lanka underway. We
hope tomorrow afternoon back.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Time we have the green seemers where the past bowlers
have to have that sort of patience and that's not
necessarily going to happen straight away, even though the conditions
are in your favor.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
So for us, it's about going out there bawling one
ball at a time. I love hearing Phillips talking about
Patients brings joy in my heart. New Auckland City a
league signing Louis Vastrata is out of his comfort zone.
Not on the pitch, he's just out of his own
hemisphere so.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Far as away. I believe it was one city, Antwerp.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
The way it was a forty minute.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
So yeah, sometimes when you yeah, I was thrown in
the the deep, you know, sometimes like this.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
He's one of three new signings for the club. Season
gets underway in a few weeks. What is it, nineteenth
twentieth of October. Off the top of my head and
break his import, Freddie, let's be delivered a Liverpool kiss
to Kings player Sean Bruce in a pre session match.
He's not playing and he's not happy.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
That it breaks my heart.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I'm trying to stay positive and trying to keep a
good act about it, but if I'm being perfectly honest,
I'm in hurts.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
College Scotch always told me folks that you can't control.
You can focus on your attitude, showing up your emotions
and to only playing myself.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I'll just add to that, Freddy, you can also can
control not head budding people. And you said it breaks
your heart and it hurts. What about Sean Bruce? How's
he feeling? And that's Scott Today time out to introduce
to the Fray mister Gregor Paul from a New Zealand
(04:51):
Herald premiere rugby writer and it's good to chat with you, Gregor.
I trust you well and looking forward to what's going
to happen this weekend at the very odd time of
a quarter to six or somethinghow strange.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Welcome though.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
I think an afternoon kick sun might be shining in Sydney,
so that's a nice little change, I think, and welcome
a few more of those.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
And look, yeah, I think we'll get a good game.
Speaker 6 (05:17):
I know that we've got some issues across the Tasman
about what quality we're going to get out of the
Australians and they were walloped in the last Encaranna in Argentina,
which doesn't board particularly well. But I do have a
feeling that the stadium and Sydney will be close to
being full.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That will get the best out of the Wallabies.
Speaker 6 (05:36):
They just need to look at those black jerseys and
that will get a bit more out of them. Here
the hacker, that'll get a bit more out of them
and we'll hopefully see whatever this Australian team's got in it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I think they'll get it all out.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
He wrote a piece today in The Herald worth talking
about and it's based essently on tolerance, tolerance of the
All Blacks and their results post COVID, suggesting there was
none previously. But now as a nation of sports fans
of rugby, we can almost accept that the Orb's going
to get beaten from time to time and that's okay. Oh,
(06:12):
how things have changed.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Great.
Speaker 6 (06:14):
Maybe you've grown up as a nation, darc I don't know,
You've got other things to do. Maybe COVID was a
sort of realization that there is more in the world
than rugby, and it was just it was a moment
to reset everybody and recalibrate expectations and realize as you
go around the world that you know, there's no inherent
(06:35):
reason to believe that the old ecks will always be
better than everyone else.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You've got to earn that right.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
You've got to keep developing your own systems, your own players,
your own coaches to stay ahead of everyone else. And
there's no doubt that what has also happened is that
we've seen real growth, particularly in Ireland South Africa.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I've had Purple Patch.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
Mean, they've always been a very strong rugby nation, but
they're in a real purple patch at the moment where
they're at the French hosting the World Cup. We saw
them thrive become a different time type of nation in
terms of how much resource and connection they had with
their team. England have been on and off, but they're
predominantly you know again when they're on, they're very good.
(07:16):
And so I think maybe there's a realization out there
mentioned Argentina, you know, who've improved as well. Realization maybe
that New Zealand's dominance is something that cannot be taken
for granted, it is completely unrealistic, and that there has
to be a sense of what can we tolerate here?
(07:37):
Where can we realistically put a line and say, well, okay,
the odd defeat to South Africa, that's okay, But what
about if we start losing regularly to Australia?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
How do we feel about that?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Unlikely considering the state there incurrently, but not to say
it won't occur. So in acceptance from the rugby public,
but surely looking back and going why were we so good?
Why can't we keep one step ahead of the opposition,
because they always have what's altered post COVID do you think.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
Gregor, Well, there'll be a lot of reasons well to
go through around it.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Clearly Super rugby's reconfigured.
Speaker 6 (08:18):
We can debate this forever, but there's no doubt that
it's weakened the competition. Let's not get into who's to
blame for that, but let's just be realistic. It's not
the competition it was without the South African teams in it.
From a high performance perspective, New Zealand's under exposed to
the body tights, the sizes and strategies it's going to
that the players will encounter in the Test arena and
(08:40):
Australia are really really quite weak at the moment, which
doubles down on that he take South Africa out and
put them into the European competition. That's a double whammy.
It's like an intercept on your own goal line, isn't it.
You're about to get seven and you're can seeing seven
down the other end. Because they're benefiting Ireland, Scotland, Wales.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Italy by having their teams over there.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
The isolation didn't help New Zealand, you know, not having
players exposed to why enough, Gene Paul, maybe the eligibility
policy needs to be reviewed because maybe we're losing players
at an earlier age, key players, Richie Muwanga, Shannon Frazel.
You know, you could even argue that Aaron Smith probably
Retalic have gone a year or two earlier than the Perhaps,
(09:24):
you know, they could still be playing international rugby despite
the fact that they're in Japan.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
So maybe that has to be looked at.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
And just maybe generally we need to look at the
whole development program internally and ask are we getting the
right people and the right jobs.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Are we innovative enough?
Speaker 6 (09:40):
You know, are we changing the type of rugby enough
to keep everyone else guessing?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Greg Apaul from his in on Hell joins the program.
It's almost as if haven't quite hit rock bottom. But
it might have to take that before change is swept in.
Now you mentioned the prickly subject of eligibility. This keeps
coming up over and over again. Just the Master was
on breakdown talking about it over the a weekend. Is
(10:07):
it time for us to forget about the tradition and
to actually move forward? And you know what everyone else
is doing, We've just got to play catch up.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
I don't know about a blanket lifting because the ramifications
of that could be significantly damaging. And I don't think
because everyone else is doing it is a strong enough
rationale for New Zealand to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I do, however, think that you.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
Have to say, well, you've made a decision to take
a private equity investor on silver Lake, and the whole
rationale there is to generate cash via the all Blacks
that will filter back into the whole of the ecosystem.
So everything is dependent on the all Blacks being successful.
That is your whole rugby environment built on that one preface.
(10:50):
So you've got to ask on the on the back
of that, does your eligibility policy make sense given the
importance you've attached to winning test matches And the answer
there would be probably not anymore. And could you allow
some kind of loosening of the relations which already occurs,
you know, via the sabbatical process where guys are able
(11:11):
b Ardisavia, Sam Kaine, all of them played in Japan
this year but were deemed eligible on the on the
basis that they serve longer term contracts to come home.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
What's the difference.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
Between that and Richie Muwanga doing it for three seasons
in Japan and not coming back to play Super Rugby,
but just playing in Japan and being.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Eligible for the All Blacks.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
If you create a system where you say, how about
we have eligibility in Super Rugby and say if you're
playing in Super Rugby, you're eligible to be playing for
the All Blacks, and or look at a cap and
say at their boards discretion, the All Black coach will
be able to pick up to two or three players
who are currently not playing in Super Rugby. You know,
(11:56):
if guys go to Europe or France to play whatever,
you can do it that with it.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You can control it.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
And then you've got the ability to put to bolster
a team a little bit and ensure that you can
and you can win games and develop for the future
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And that's the key.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
You've you've got to win now and you've got to
be preparing your team to win tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
That's what all black cultures have to do.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
You look at South Africa, they've kind of got away
for the last twelve years just winning World Cups. Look
at the record in between World Cups really not very good,
not much above fifty percent between World Cups. But they've
got to World Cups the winner, everyone's happy. New Zealand
can't do that. New Zealand needs to win between World
Cups and ideally at World Cups.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So you've got to find a way to win today,
but plan for tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
So the eligibility laws change. What effect does that have
at a at a grassroots, at a New Zealand level,
because that's been the age old argument we need our
stars playing at home. That's good for the brand, is
that something can still be leaned on, maybe even with
slight adjustments.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
Yeah, there's still really good players playing in your own
The fact that this year you had three high profile
names all playing in Japan outside of Super Rugby anyway,
Barrett Bon Barrett Ardie Savio, Sam King. So no one's
kicking up a fuss about that that they missed one season.
Next year Joradi Barrett will be missing and that Padam
will continue, will be Rickle Yanni the year after that,
(13:23):
or whoever it's going to be. We're going to see
these sabbatical deals where the top players take take a
season out of Super Rugby as it is anyway, So
you're not you know, it's not absolute starting. We're not
talking about taking you know, fifteen all blacks out of
the competition for the you know, for the for the
entire duration, one of the two guys missing. Yeah, no problem.
Look what happened this year? Ardi goes off to Japan
(13:45):
and look at the Look at the hurricanes backro Look
what happened Peter Lacai and Brain. You'll say, they come
flying through because they get game time. All of a sudden,
You've given young guys the opportunity that they couldn't get
with Ardi being here, and you're and you're building depth.
You're building new guys that you can market, promote and
brand fantastic. So a little bit of common sense tells me,
(14:07):
as long as you don't open the floodgates and say
you can all go, then I think you can afford
to have because it's already happening. You can afford to
have three to four to five players heading offshore, and
you're leaving a little bit of breathing space for the
next guy to come through. Look at two Purvai this year.
He's performing brilliantly because he's got a chance because Brody
(14:27):
Retaler and Sam Whitelock have retired.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And that is that the whole premise of the New
Zealand system is.
Speaker 6 (14:34):
That then you know, you chop one tree down, the
next one comes through and it grows up to be strong.
And we've seen that through time immemorial and that's what
you've got to promote and doing a little bit of
this to sort of fast track that, you know, guys
heading away for the club rugby creates openings and opportunities
for the next guys to come through.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
At Super Rugby.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
DMO, we've got the breakdowns on Sports Talk.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
And one of the voice was Greg Paul Rugby right
for New Zealand Herald are taking a look at New
Zealand's rugby where it sits at an international level currently
talking about the acceptance and the tolerance of New Zealand
fans to realize where New Zealand rugby is in the
widest scheme of things and to take that on board,
(15:29):
that's a bitter pill to swallow. Is it accurate? I
don't think we're going to find out a great deal
over the weekend, unless, of course, Australia roll the all blacks,
in which case it's all hands to the decks. It's
an emergency. We're all sinking. I don't think that will happen.
It might even paper over some of the cracks we've seen.
We will see so many reasons for this, and I
(15:53):
don't think this is knee jerk reaction to the results
in South Africa. Al it's very difficult to win over there.
But as Gregor points out, since COVID, things haven't been
great for news, haven't been great for the All Blacks.
He talked about Silverlake and taking the money there, and
(16:14):
the pyramid works at the All Blacks being absolutely in
the top at the top of that. They have to be,
they have to be the best of the world. Otherwise
that relationship falls away, and eligibility may just be the
silver bullet to that. And that's a conversation he may
have later on. But first up, are you accepting of
(16:36):
this as a rugby fan? Can you sit there and
take a deep breath and go, well, we're.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
Not that good at the moment, but I remember, and
you will all remember only a handful of years ago,
and the All Blacks were thrashing everybody in sight, and
there were lots of people saying this is boring, we
need some competition.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Well, it'll happen, and I don't think you'll be so
bored then you'll be upset, But maybe not upset, maybe
just tolerating what's going on, because that is where rugby's
out of the moment, victims of a lackluster Super rugby competition,
of a northern surge of talent all Black rugby and
(17:20):
means that are capable of a resurgence, capable of the
action required to get New Zealand back to the top
of the pile again, and all of these excuses. I
don't like the sound of the All Blacks being victims
of everything else? So do I accept it? Will I
(17:45):
tolerate it? No, lived through some extraordinary times, an amazing
team that's given us so much joy, so much excitement,
so many reasons to be proud of our national side,
and watching it thin out, watching it being taken from
(18:07):
us by other teams, it's really uncomfortable. I don't like it.
I accept that it's happening. I don't like that it's happening.
Can it be turned around? What do you think? Will
you tolerate this? Can you just go on? It's just rugby?
She's right, I mean, it's the passion still there. I
don't like it. I won't tolerate it, and I don't
believe that it can't change. I think it should. I
(18:29):
think it will when I think ends R and the
All Blacks have got the capabilities to do this, but
they have to make some big change in order to
get there. The rest of the world is caught up
and probably run around the corner.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
What do we do?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Are you going to tolerate this? Are you accepting of
what's going on in All Black rugby right now? Our
eight hundred eighty ten eighty lines are open nineteen nine two.
That's the text line, of course, your standards text charge
really interested in your calls on this? How are you
taking this? Ay, you're right, you're good. Twenty five minutes
after seven.
Speaker 8 (19:06):
That we don't go mines and again it's just enough,
It's fine, Good time.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You forget the riffs call. You make a call on
sports Talk on your home of sport use Talks.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
It be talk.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Again. Five on a Saturday afternoon slash evening. Strange but good. Right,
when the All Blacks are playing Bledisloe come up against
the Australians, odd but kind of joyous. I suppose to
(19:55):
see a bit of daylight football, would see if it doesn't
rain over in Sydney. I want to know, are you
accepting or are you tolerating what's happening at an all
black level. It's not just a few bad results at
the start of the year. The results have been fair
to middling suboptimal for quite some time now. It's not
(20:18):
a surprise. It didn't just leap out from an alley
and beat us with a cosh. We could see this.
We know what's happening. And a lot of the argument
has been around we've lost several once in a generation players.
It's very, very hard to build a team, and you
lose the likes of your maccaws and your katers and
your canals and the like. How do we move on?
(20:40):
There's been accusations around being victims of Super Rugby and
what's happened there, and as Gregor pointed out, there's no
point in going to an argument who's responsible. Super Rugby
is struggling because the South Africans aren't there. So the
quality of the international players isn't quite as high as
it used to be because they're not used to dealing
(21:02):
with on a day to day basis. While I have a
Super Rugby season anyway, of the style of rugby that
those enormous scary South African spring There's not a player's fault.
We've got Australia who are very weak and that doesn't
help anything either. How do you re establish the dominance
(21:24):
that this team once had? Can we re establish that dominance?
So this might be one of those distant memories you
sit down and tell your grandkids, Well, back in the day,
Ill Blacks had a ninety something percent winning record. Wow,
it's amazing. I just wonder how long it lasts before
(21:49):
there has to be a monumental shift and priorities and
policy from men Ze are in order to get back
up to the top of the world and become that
team that put the hebgb's off everybody else scared teams,
they're almost mentally beaten before they got on the park. Again,
(22:14):
this may have been lost. During that conversation with Gregor Paul,
the eligibility word came up and it is as simple
as that, in order to re establish some form of dominance,
New Zealand have to let go of their stance on
(22:34):
eligibility because they will be left behind. Now Gregor said,
it's not a case of their doing it so so
should we. So in your kid you want to jump
off the roof into the pool and my mates all
do it. Well, if your mates were in a car act,
you want to do that too.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
You don't.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
But this is it's a global game, and the international
teams are peppered with global players that have played all
over the world and they bring that talent back to
their homeland and apply that to internationals the Argentines for example. Now,
I've never liked the idea of players being allowed to
(23:12):
go overseas and being picked all overseas because the catastrophe
behind that would be we lose everybody. They all disappear
and suddenly this rich base that you used to have
is gone because nobody aspires to being all black. Because
your heroes aren't there, you can't go and watch them
at you you're in PC level, your Super Rugby level.
(23:35):
But let's face it, there's not aiming anyway, right, we
don't get to see in PC le Well, you get
to see the upcomers. That's fine. Super Rugby you get
for three months. So is it is it necessary to
keep a lot of these players here? And I think
that the point that Gregor made around a step system
(23:58):
slowly but surely working this eligibility in so we don't
find ourselves breaft of quality players at the end of
a World Cup cycle because they want to go off
from cash a check and surely there's got to be
a way of feeding that in. I don't know if
this country can survive stoically saying pretty much no to
everybody unless they're a superstar, like an Artie sav or
(24:21):
a Richie Moner on the lake. It might just be
the silver bullet. It's a big shift and policy and idea,
but it might be the most necessary one we've got.
And I wonder if he's in it a capable of
action and that needs to do that. So what what
(24:41):
does it take? You're a rugby fan. You sit in
there and you think they're okay. I might not. I
might watch that the crowds have been going down, and
what the TV numbers are? Like you just accepting this
now and going you know what, yah, the one sudden
they lose something doesn't really matter. And there's also, of
course the nature of all these other sports, and let's
(25:05):
not forget the power of rugby league and when you
look at the players coming through, they have an opportunity.
Maybe you've gone to Australia just over the ditch and
making a whole lot of money and going, well, you
know what, I think I'd rather do that. Oh, one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. The lines are open. It
is at seven point thirty four. I've got piles of texts.
(25:25):
I run through a couple of those, or take your calls.
You can't keep blaming the All Blacks performance on losing
generational players like McCaw and Carton. Kind of except those
guys left eight years ago. This year was in New
Zealand and Australia are still trying to play running rugby.
The rest of the world is now big Fords bashing
up the middle. Middle argies are kind of half and half.
(25:47):
The All Blacks need bigger Fords to go back and
go back to pick and go rugby from the mccare era.
Ford's taken up to twenty two release it to the back.
So it's a style problem there. But if we've got
players playing overseas and bringing that back and we've exposed
to that, maybe that does help. Maybe too much of
(26:08):
an outlander this this this is an island nation now
and maybe they're all on their own. Good Graham, how are.
Speaker 9 (26:13):
You Tom got Well does for yourself?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, not so bad. I just such a vexed issue.
I've got to be talking about simple Okay, good.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
I like you, Grahame.
Speaker 9 (26:22):
It's a simple all the way to pop where they
turned down the Telkington report right, the board and the
and the executive structure is not set for purpose. That
was the talking report. They chose to ignore it. That's
your problem. Get to the board.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I'm not going to argue here, Graham, because it was
roundly said right across all the experts is this is wrong.
You've got to get it right. And what do they do? Nothing?
Speaker 9 (26:46):
Voted against it for self serving, right Rob Nicholas. Rob
Nicholas Side, who seems to be an outstanding individual and administrator.
The report was quite clear, you're all not set for purpose.
And now you've been run by people that are not.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Set for purpose. It's not gonna work.
Speaker 9 (27:01):
It's going to crumble.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I should have gone back to that and thought, Graham,
thanks very much that because it's true it's not being
managed correctly, because it's got a as you said, not
for the purpose board. It doesn't matter what ideas we
come up with.
Speaker 9 (27:15):
An executive structure too, right, like the you know, the
CEO is clearly out of the stepped internationally and industrial.
It's just that's the problem. It's like any company, right,
the company fails of course the people on the board
and the people in the exective structure, not because the
hard working go on the ground, right.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
The people that run it, they're responsible for the direction
and the energy from the top. So by blaming the
players down under there, so it's beyond them, right because
they are as you said they'd the workforce.
Speaker 9 (27:39):
Yeah, they're doing the best, right, they're doing in the
world class clothes.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Right.
Speaker 9 (27:45):
That's my two cents for you. But that that's where
the problem is. And it will slowly die unless they
really take it on. But it will try, probably take
it on about ten years time.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's too when it's too late you Graham Hay, thanks
so much for that call, and really interesting, is it
too late? Well, they don't want it die before they
actually try and revive the corpse. Thanks Graham, good it. Roger.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
Yeah, Hi, Darcy, I've got a slightly different edge. I guess.
I think it's very positive that I think we've lost
three games out of the last four? Is that correct?
Because I don't think there's the World Cup when we
were winning everything I think was Hansome's second term and
(28:25):
we got dumped in the semi finals. And I think
having a bit of adversity at this stage makes the
players and the coaching staff actually set up and they'll
have to work harder and smarter and learn lots.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think wouldn't that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
When when the All Blacks before the World Cup under
Foster had lost to Argentina the first time over here
in Lost Island series? That surely that was a punch
in the phase, wasn't it? Or they're not taking any
notice of that?
Speaker 5 (28:57):
I think it was marvelous. Where did we come in
that World Cup?
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Second?
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Yeah, that's still.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
They still didn't win. I mean you've got to go
and black and white, don't you for those? Did you win?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
No?
Speaker 3 (29:11):
We were close, he didn't win. Maybe I'm a bit harsh,
but did they learn much of your last lessons or not?
What did they pay?
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Well? I think Foster's team exceeded the vast majority of
people's expectations in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
I'll agree with you all that.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I would say, though, with just to continue to slightly
all track. I think when Robertson got the job, we
were told he was the best coach in the world,
without a doubt, and we know that because he told us,
and so he is actually having to step back from
was it seven years with the Crusaders winning or whatever,
it was a long time and face some different realities
(29:53):
where hang on, It's not that I haven't got the
same culture as I had at the Crusaders, because I've
got people from all the different teams. I'm going to
have to work a little bit differently to get it
all to go. And as you said before, we've introduced
some younger players this time. They'll be learning off the
old guys, and by the time we get to the
(30:14):
next World Cup, which is important one, I think the
team will be a lot stronger than a hell of
a lot better.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
I'm not going to disagree with you on this. I
think that what Razor Robinson's got is his ability to
build a culture and the team, and it's probably taken
him a little longer than he'd expected, a little longer
that we like. I think that in Roger, thanks very
much for your call. I don't think he said he
was the best coach in the world. I think it
was our fault, wasn't it. It was the best super
(30:44):
rugby coach that's ever been seen. The best results of
any super have ever been seen. It's going to take
a while, So does it need to be crushed and rebuilt?
I'll go back to Gray him on that. If the
structure around it is simply not strong enough or effective enough,
(31:04):
what hope is there for the working guy regardless of
the changes. That that's a great call, grame Old Pilkington report.
It's twenty away from eight coming up next to Luke
Ronkey joins us, assistant coach of the black Caps. They
might even play cricket tomorrow. Wow, crazy baby. What's the forecast?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Luke?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Tell us what the forecasters? News talks EB it's sixth
(31:52):
and away from AIDS, news talks e B talking cricket
now black Caps in action. Well we hope so anyway,
first test of two up against that stri Lanka over intremaker.
We're joined by the assistant coach, Luke A Ronky Luke,
Welcome to the program. Cut to the chase. Please tell
me the forecast is good.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yes, thanks for having me. It is.
Speaker 8 (32:12):
It's a lot better obviously what it was and against
the Afrigha, and so it's it's I think everyone's really
excited for the fact of getting some test cricket under underway.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Look, I don't want to dwell on that washed out
test because it was a disaster. But from a mental standpoint,
how was that for you and the players? Five days
of not really knowing, five days of out and out bortom,
five days of frustration. That's probably quite a difficult few
days to go through.
Speaker 8 (32:38):
Yeah, it is, because again, like everyone like you do
all the prep, you're already and mentally like right on
this day is when we're going to start sort of
a big test block for us, and the guys are excited.
But then you can sort of also tell early on
with the way the ground was looking in the weather
about it's like it was going to be quite a
difficult little period. And then it just kept raining like
it was. The unfortunate thing is we'ld have some some
(33:00):
sunny days, but it would rain overnight. And then obviously
the last few days there was actually no change because
it rained during the day anyway. But the guys were
just like that, just I guess each each evening almost
sort of like mentally prep thinking that right tomorrow we
could be on let's just see what happens, and then
obviously that would all change. But the guys that they
did really well to sort of make sure that they
were up and ready to go if needs be.
Speaker 10 (33:22):
But you can see like just they're changing our like
in our moods.
Speaker 8 (33:25):
Once we've got to Sri Lanka where you're outside a
little bit more and you're sort of the weather's different,
you're ready for it for something a different challenge, and
then the guys are sort of raring to go.
Speaker 10 (33:33):
The trainings have been great and again the guys are
all excited for tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
What's looking like as far as the deck. You're not
going to tell me the team you never do. I'm
almost going to give up asking, but give us an
idea about what we've got out there in the middle.
Start laughing at me, Luke.
Speaker 10 (33:49):
No, it's good that you've worked it out.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Come on a twenty years. I'll try all sorts of
ways of do I'm going to work. Tell us about
the deck. What's it going to do?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Luke?
Speaker 8 (33:57):
Traditionally here is it's a spinning surface. The fast bowlers
don't that' have massive workloads at this place. But again
it gets hot and the spinners have a big role
to play in the match and making sure that the
runs are hard to score for any batters. And I
guess it can be just that atricious type of cricket
where you know you could be out there for a
long time in the heat and understanding your roles with
(34:20):
the ball fast ballers.
Speaker 10 (34:21):
It's short, sharp, sort of impactful.
Speaker 8 (34:23):
Little spells, and then the spinners get into a into
a mode of just hitting a spot and asking question
of batters for a long long periods of time. So
it can be a little bit more old school sort
of test cricket, but I love that sort of Test cricket.
I think that sort of it's where you see different
skill sets come out and different tactical things happen. You're
going to work out over five days how to make
the most of their conditions and sort of get your
(34:45):
side in a pointing in the right direction to try
and get a result that you're after.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
You've got plenty of tweakers in the team, some of
them have all round roles, so I suppose that determines
the selection of the spinners that don't bat so well.
Is it down to maybe just one that might get
the nod You're going to maybe attack full noise with
all of your.
Speaker 10 (35:08):
You're saying it with a few little slow just oh well.
Speaker 8 (35:11):
But we are in a position, like you said, we're
lucky enough with we do have some more round like
spin options as well. So we've got all these different
options up our sleeve, and that it is making sure
that the combinations and what we're after and it works,
I guess against the opposition that you're planning against as well.
So I mean, as you know, those are all the
questions and thoughts that go through Steady and Tim's mind
(35:32):
and the conversations with senior players and what they sort
of look in the wicket. And also we're lucky enough
to have rung at a Haras with us at the
moment for these for these tests as well, So using
his knowledge of the surface and the ground and picking
his brakes obviously took a lot of test.
Speaker 10 (35:46):
Wik It's hairsts like, right.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
We've got enough understanding of what's about and we just
sort of pick accordingly.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Really hopefully, Luke Ronkey, what do you know about Sri
Lanka and their form.
Speaker 8 (35:55):
Well, obviously they've just been in England. They had a
good Test win to finish off the series over there,
so they'll be coming in full of confidence and buzzing
after after winning over there.
Speaker 10 (36:05):
At the Oval sets. So it's going to be a
fantastic series.
Speaker 8 (36:07):
It's again it's it's big for both teams with World
Test Championship points going and it's excited and we're in
their conditions. They know this ground well and it's I
think that's the best part of it as everyone's coming
into this with full confidence and excited for a challenge
from both teams.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Play me, picking the turn is going to be the
difficult thing and more time spent on the deck the better.
But with the weather you've had, I'm presuming not a
great deal of time outside in those conditions. Maybe an
insight have you prepped this from a batting perspective.
Speaker 10 (36:43):
We've been quite lucky with the facilities at home.
Speaker 8 (36:46):
We had three camps leading into to coming over this
way and we're like the peeps looking after all. The
wickets were awesome in terms of making them turn and
balance and a bit slow and different surfaces. To prep
the guys as much as we could, so then it's
like just challenging guys in different ways and trying to
come up with different plans.
Speaker 10 (37:08):
Just to combat what we might face here.
Speaker 8 (37:10):
So then it's like you sort of you go from
extremes and training, so then you get into a game
and hopefully everyone's trusting the work they've done, and it's
it's just like they go into a zone and that
they have their plan A and they adapt from there.
So again it's it's seeing what the surface does and
and changing if you need to. If not, you just
stick to your guns and hopefully the guys have done
(37:30):
all the work. We've had some good trainings here for
last two days. I've got one more today, and it's
just realized it's just honing in those your processes that
you want to go through before a match and trusting
the work you've done.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
You say a good training, Tell me what that means
when you walk away? What do you remember and go
actually that worked? I mean the difference between good and bad?
Is he much in it?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Luke?
Speaker 8 (37:52):
Well, it depends for each person, because I mean some
guys they might hit for fifteen minutes and be happy
as and then they trust others. They still trust what
they do, but they need they want to bat for
forty five minutes and then they have extras after that.
Speaker 10 (38:04):
So it's each person is is their own individual.
Speaker 8 (38:07):
They try to get what they can out of a
training session and again they obviously as part of what
everyone wants to face, our spinners, they want to face
the net Bowl as we have that the local spinners
that they've got high quality spinners that come to trainings and.
Speaker 10 (38:19):
Help us out as well.
Speaker 8 (38:20):
So there's this the little things that I guess just
it makes guys in their minds feel a lot more
comfortable and happy with the work and the prep they've
done leading into a Test match. So again, each person
is so different, so it's as long as each person
is happy with how they've prepped, then I'm happy as Larry.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Haven't you got a restay because of a presidential election?
How does that work for you?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Guys?
Speaker 8 (38:39):
Well, it's yeah, well it's going to be something no
one's No one was around when that lasts happened, that's
for sure.
Speaker 10 (38:44):
So yeah, it's on day or the three.
Speaker 8 (38:47):
I think we play Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, have Saturday off,
then play Sunday Monday. So yeah, it's it's something different,
But again it's I guess it's it's there's nothing you
can do about it. Just get into it, and you
understand that that day it might be the perfect time
for the rest. We might have been in the field
for two days and we need to have a little
bit of a restock and a sit down and things,
and again we might be batting and going around our business.
Speaker 10 (39:08):
So it's going to be interesting.
Speaker 8 (39:10):
I don't think, well, no one actually knows what's going
to happen or how it's going to work.
Speaker 10 (39:14):
So we'll just see you.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Hear it from the biggest names in sports and have
your say on eight hundred eighty Sports Talk or more
on your home of sports News talks it Be. For
more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks it
Be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.