October 22, 2024 • 10 mins
Sports broadcasting expert Colin Smith joined the show to discuss what the new NZR and Sky TV deal could potentially look like.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Team past seven. It is on a Tuesday night, Tuesday evening,
sunny outside, or say Tuesday. Colin Smith to join us shortly.
The rights situation between New Zealand Rugby and Sky is
at an interesting stage. It is finally balanced, remembering, of
course Sky picked up the rights last time after a
(00:33):
challenge from the brand new Spark TV. He paid through
the nose for the rights one hundred million dollars a
year and they don't want to do it again, which
is understandable in saying that ends that I have one
Halla Halla product and it may just be keeping Sky
alive and afloat. They don't want to take much less
than that figure, so now they meet the negotiations begin.
(00:58):
This is a key product in any PayTV lineup and
any satellite lineup is a great piece of company to
keep in the all blacks. But who benefits who doesn't,
how far does it go and what are the considerations
between both of these parties. Sports TV rights consultant from
(01:18):
Global Media and Sport and former TV rights advisors to
New Zealand Ruby, Colin Smith joins us now, So what
happens here Colin who's got the upper hand in these negotiations?
Sky or New Zealand Rugby And.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Welcome all very well indeed and great to chat to you.
It's a really interesting question. If you look at New Zealand,
rugby is and has been the most popular sport by
a long long way. Frankly, it's close to being a
one sport country. I'm not taking away the Olympics or cricket,
but it is the key driver. The challenge is what
(01:54):
they are paying is a very significant amount of money
and probably in hindsight Sky would probably regret what they
offered and what New Zealand Rugby accepted, So it's close
to being a standoff. So Sky definitely would want to
continue with rugby. I note that they've done the deal
(02:16):
with World Rugby for the next two World Cups and
including women's rugby as well and rugby sevens, so they've
got a stable of rugby. But the question is what
about the coverage of the Rugby Championship and Super Rugby.
The other challenge is the viewership numbers of those are
not strong as they used to be.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Who needs who more? Do you think when you look.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
At this, you would argue that both need each other
because there is not an alternative in New Zealand. Unless
a streaming an international streaming service like a the Zone
or an Amazon or an Apple came in, you wouldn't
expect a tvn Z or somebody else to come in
(03:02):
and bid for those rights. So they need each other.
But the problem is the numbers are not a lot
weaker than they were when they did this deal. And
it's mutual, but at what price is at mutual? And
we're seeing this same challenge elsewhere in the world. This
is not just peculiar to New Zealand. It's an issue
(03:25):
in France and it's there and it has been an
issue in England as well.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
If INSI Are went to somewhere like Amazon or Dezone
or something similar, would that be a success for them,
because I feel column the issue here is comfort in
the consumers and the platform they use. This would be
an abrupt change for a lot of the people who
spend the money on Sky. Would they click to it?
(03:50):
But do it work for ins in are well?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
See the challenge for a Dezone or even for that matter,
an Amazon is because Sky has been quite smart and
done the deal with World Rugby, it means all the
World Cups, rugby sevens, women's rugby are going to be
on Sky, so it means you'd need both services. That
(04:13):
makes it more challenging for New Zealand Rugby to maximize
its rights value. And I'm certain at the table Sky
would be wanting to do a very significant reduction, where
I'm certain that the New Zealand Rugby commercial would wanting
to grow it northwards, which I don't think is likely
(04:34):
even with a alternate partner.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
When it comes to just the rugby itself that I
mentioned the word whip hand before the All Blacks playing tests.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
That is it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Everything else around, which is what ends in our plus
have been attempting to do around complimentary product. It kind
of pails, doesn't it. It's not what the punters after.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, and the other problem is you're exactly right. But
the other problem is super Rugby is not what it
used to be. It's significant less and interesting statistic for
your listeners is that if a live game of NRL
the New Zealand Warriors playing in New Zealand against another
(05:20):
team outrates a Super Rugby game played also in New Zealand.
Now I would never have expected that, but that's real today,
so that Super rugby is not as good as it
used to be. Australia is a poor performer. And then
also the All Blacks aren't the powerhouse they were, so
(05:41):
South Africa and Ireland are the dominant countries. Its viewership
is not as strong and therefore going to market when
you're not as strong and your feeder competition and including
provincial rugby is challenged, makes it very difficult for them
to be able to justify the prices they're getting all
(06:02):
the rights they're paying, the Sky's paying to New Zealand Rugby's.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Down by Colin Smith, a sports broadcasting consultant SkyTV, Would
SkyTV go under if they lost the rugby if ends
it are and Silver Lakes started playing hardball and took it,
what a fit that have on Sky as a company.
Could they last?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It would be challenging for them, but they could double
down with trying to get the extra NRL team who
played in christ Church to have a second team so
have a game every week. The challenge is also if
the deal's not done, this is financially very challenging for
(06:46):
New Zealand rugby as well if they don't, if they
can't get near the price what is it remored to
be about ninety eight million New Zealand dollars, that will
be a real challenge for their commercial entity and their
partners in silver Lake, So it's a problem for both.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Actually much has silver Lake got to do with this?
How influence do you think they have? Because the talkers
maybe sixty mil from Sky, maybe eighty mil. They signed
on one hundred mil. When it comes to the men
who put the money in. Are they hugely influential silver
Lake in the final decision?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
They're influential in the end game of how they maximize
their value, But right now no, and they're only a
minority shareholder in this. They're not a they don't have
the majority share. Frankly, they're between a rock and a
hard place. But they need to for New Zealand Rugby
and the commercial side of New Zealand Rugby in other words,
(07:47):
media rights and sponsorships, etc. To grow. Now if they
don't grow, it's very hard for them to be able
to maximize their return. And the same thing applies for
the all the parties associated with New Zealand Rugby, including
the players. So this has got massive ram of locations
(08:07):
to the commercial entity that is New Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'm really interested Colin. As always, thanks for your time
and expertise about the ease of uptake for an alternative platform.
We've had problems here before when Spark turned up. People
were slow to the technology. The technology probably wasn't embedded
by then. It's been a few years since. Is it
(08:32):
a lot easier now for people to climb on board?
Is it becoming more second nature? Because there is resistance,
especially from the older generation. They want it on their skybox,
they want to how to turn it on and run
it and ease as king? Is that changing and time?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Do you believe for young people it is changing back.
For older generation and I'm saying you fifty plus, they
are far more reticent to be getting another subscription for
another service and so therefore that can also be poor
for New Zealand Rugby because they don't get the same
morning so there's a there's a double whamy blow if
(09:09):
they do this. And I think SkyTV New Zealand has
been very smart in doing the deal with World Rugby beforehand,
so they've secured what is the real muss watch in
New Zealand being the World Cups, which means that people
are not going to switch off from Sky anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
The deal is rumored to be apparently sorted, maybe within
a month's time, but I don't think there's any stress
on either party to get it done. Being as a monopoly.
What do you think is going to happen with this deal?
From all the time you've spent covering sports broadcast rights prediction,
where's this going to go? Colin?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
What I want to do is give you an example
of what happened in France. Their number one sport football,
the round ball game, which is called League one. The
private equity brought into that and they promised a seventy
percent increase in the media rights for League one. What
actually happened was they've got a forty reduction in the
(10:13):
current rights and League one in France is them is
the must have the same as New Zealand rugby is
in New Zealand. So I would have said, up until
six months ago, I would have said this deal will
be done and New Zealand Rugby will still be whole
because it is must watch. I'd say now it's far
(10:36):
more problematic and I could see a reduction that New
Zealand rugby might have to wear.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks
the'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Team past seven. It is on a Tuesday night, Tuesday evening,
sunny outside, or say Tuesday. Colin Smith to join us shortly.
The rights situation between New Zealand Rugby and Sky is
at an interesting stage. It is finally balanced, remembering, of
course Sky picked up the rights last time after a
(00:33):
challenge from the brand new Spark TV. He paid through
the nose for the rights one hundred million dollars a
year and they don't want to do it again, which
is understandable in saying that ends that I have one
Halla Halla product and it may just be keeping Sky
alive and afloat. They don't want to take much less
than that figure, so now they meet the negotiations begin.
(00:58):
This is a key product in any PayTV lineup and
any satellite lineup is a great piece of company to
keep in the all blacks. But who benefits who doesn't,
how far does it go and what are the considerations
between both of these parties. Sports TV rights consultant from
(01:18):
Global Media and Sport and former TV rights advisors to
New Zealand Ruby, Colin Smith joins us now, So what
happens here Colin who's got the upper hand in these negotiations?
Sky or New Zealand Rugby And.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Welcome all very well indeed and great to chat to you.
It's a really interesting question. If you look at New Zealand,
rugby is and has been the most popular sport by
a long long way. Frankly, it's close to being a
one sport country. I'm not taking away the Olympics or cricket,
but it is the key driver. The challenge is what
(01:54):
they are paying is a very significant amount of money
and probably in hindsight Sky would probably regret what they
offered and what New Zealand Rugby accepted, So it's close
to being a standoff. So Sky definitely would want to
continue with rugby. I note that they've done the deal
(02:16):
with World Rugby for the next two World Cups and
including women's rugby as well and rugby sevens, so they've
got a stable of rugby. But the question is what
about the coverage of the Rugby Championship and Super Rugby.
The other challenge is the viewership numbers of those are
not strong as they used to be.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Who needs who more? Do you think when you look.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
At this, you would argue that both need each other
because there is not an alternative in New Zealand. Unless
a streaming an international streaming service like a the Zone
or an Amazon or an Apple came in, you wouldn't
expect a tvn Z or somebody else to come in
(03:02):
and bid for those rights. So they need each other.
But the problem is the numbers are not a lot
weaker than they were when they did this deal. And
it's mutual, but at what price is at mutual? And
we're seeing this same challenge elsewhere in the world. This
is not just peculiar to New Zealand. It's an issue
(03:25):
in France and it's there and it has been an
issue in England as well.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
If INSI Are went to somewhere like Amazon or Dezone
or something similar, would that be a success for them,
because I feel column the issue here is comfort in
the consumers and the platform they use. This would be
an abrupt change for a lot of the people who
spend the money on Sky. Would they click to it?
(03:50):
But do it work for ins in are well?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
See the challenge for a Dezone or even for that matter,
an Amazon is because Sky has been quite smart and
done the deal with World Rugby, it means all the
World Cups, rugby sevens, women's rugby are going to be
on Sky, so it means you'd need both services. That
(04:13):
makes it more challenging for New Zealand Rugby to maximize
its rights value. And I'm certain at the table Sky
would be wanting to do a very significant reduction, where
I'm certain that the New Zealand Rugby commercial would wanting
to grow it northwards, which I don't think is likely
(04:34):
even with a alternate partner.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
When it comes to just the rugby itself that I
mentioned the word whip hand before the All Blacks playing tests.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
That is it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Everything else around, which is what ends in our plus
have been attempting to do around complimentary product. It kind
of pails, doesn't it. It's not what the punters after.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, and the other problem is you're exactly right. But
the other problem is super Rugby is not what it
used to be. It's significant less and interesting statistic for
your listeners is that if a live game of NRL
the New Zealand Warriors playing in New Zealand against another
(05:20):
team outrates a Super Rugby game played also in New Zealand.
Now I would never have expected that, but that's real today,
so that Super rugby is not as good as it
used to be. Australia is a poor performer. And then
also the All Blacks aren't the powerhouse they were, so
(05:41):
South Africa and Ireland are the dominant countries. Its viewership
is not as strong and therefore going to market when
you're not as strong and your feeder competition and including
provincial rugby is challenged, makes it very difficult for them
to be able to justify the prices they're getting all
(06:02):
the rights they're paying, the Sky's paying to New Zealand Rugby's.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Down by Colin Smith, a sports broadcasting consultant SkyTV, Would
SkyTV go under if they lost the rugby if ends
it are and Silver Lakes started playing hardball and took it,
what a fit that have on Sky as a company.
Could they last?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It would be challenging for them, but they could double
down with trying to get the extra NRL team who
played in christ Church to have a second team so
have a game every week. The challenge is also if
the deal's not done, this is financially very challenging for
(06:46):
New Zealand rugby as well if they don't, if they
can't get near the price what is it remored to
be about ninety eight million New Zealand dollars, that will
be a real challenge for their commercial entity and their
partners in silver Lake, So it's a problem for both.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Actually much has silver Lake got to do with this?
How influence do you think they have? Because the talkers
maybe sixty mil from Sky, maybe eighty mil. They signed
on one hundred mil. When it comes to the men
who put the money in. Are they hugely influential silver
Lake in the final decision?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
They're influential in the end game of how they maximize
their value, But right now no, and they're only a
minority shareholder in this. They're not a they don't have
the majority share. Frankly, they're between a rock and a
hard place. But they need to for New Zealand Rugby
and the commercial side of New Zealand Rugby in other words,
(07:47):
media rights and sponsorships, etc. To grow. Now if they
don't grow, it's very hard for them to be able
to maximize their return. And the same thing applies for
the all the parties associated with New Zealand Rugby, including
the players. So this has got massive ram of locations
(08:07):
to the commercial entity that is New Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'm really interested Colin. As always, thanks for your time
and expertise about the ease of uptake for an alternative platform.
We've had problems here before when Spark turned up. People
were slow to the technology. The technology probably wasn't embedded
by then. It's been a few years since. Is it
(08:32):
a lot easier now for people to climb on board?
Is it becoming more second nature? Because there is resistance,
especially from the older generation. They want it on their skybox,
they want to how to turn it on and run
it and ease as king? Is that changing and time?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Do you believe for young people it is changing back.
For older generation and I'm saying you fifty plus, they
are far more reticent to be getting another subscription for
another service and so therefore that can also be poor
for New Zealand Rugby because they don't get the same
morning so there's a there's a double whamy blow if
(09:09):
they do this. And I think SkyTV New Zealand has
been very smart in doing the deal with World Rugby beforehand,
so they've secured what is the real muss watch in
New Zealand being the World Cups, which means that people
are not going to switch off from Sky anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
The deal is rumored to be apparently sorted, maybe within
a month's time, but I don't think there's any stress
on either party to get it done. Being as a monopoly.
What do you think is going to happen with this deal?
From all the time you've spent covering sports broadcast rights prediction,
where's this going to go? Colin?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
What I want to do is give you an example
of what happened in France. Their number one sport football,
the round ball game, which is called League one. The
private equity brought into that and they promised a seventy
percent increase in the media rights for League one. What
actually happened was they've got a forty reduction in the
(10:13):
current rights and League one in France is them is
the must have the same as New Zealand rugby is
in New Zealand. So I would have said, up until
six months ago, I would have said this deal will
be done and New Zealand Rugby will still be whole
because it is must watch. I'd say now it's far
(10:36):
more problematic and I could see a reduction that New
Zealand rugby might have to wear.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks
the'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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