October 24, 2024 • 10 mins
Former Blackcap Ronnie Hira joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss the 'politics' around pitch preparation and coin tosses.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talks. It'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're joined now by Ronnie Hero. He is a former
Black Cap in the thought he played a handful of
T twenty international games, played a lot of his regular
domestic cricket for Auckland and for Canterbury as well. I mean,
be talking to Ronnie about the nature of the toss now,
the irony here as we talked about this this morning,
(00:34):
about the toss and how important it is or isn't
and should it be changed? And you know, India win
the toss and they insert themselves and it's trouble at
Mail and we're losing already, and of course what happens
to New Zealand when the toss and have done very well?
What ninety two for two? I think it is at
the end of the first session's play. But that's fantastic.
This has been discussed before, but I think it's getting
(00:55):
more and more relevant, the significance of the toss in
Test cricket. It's slightly more advances when you look at
the percentage of wins should you win the toss, but
when you look at the current era of cricket, the
import of Test match cricket victories, the ability of home
(01:19):
teams to prepare the pit exactly how they want it
to their benefit. Surely the incoming team should have some
kind of leg up and be able to determine whether
they bat first or bowl first, regardless of a piece
of blind luck, because that's what it is. He joins us. Now,
(01:43):
Ronnie here, Ronnie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Let's talk about the toss. This always comes up when
it looks like there's a massive advantage for whoever wins
the toss and a massive advantage for the home team
as they prep their decks. You'd know all about this.
Is there a pronounced advantage? Does it need to be
looked at?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I think you know obviously now they're playing for the
World Test Championship, those points are really crucial. And I
think if you look at what's going on in Pakistan
and how dramatic it looks with the fans and the
heaters and things trying to dry out the surface, you
can see that they're obviously trying to tailor the surface
for their their players and their conditions. So I think
perhaps something needs to be done about it. They also
(02:24):
played on a used wicket last time, which I don't
think was overly fair, But it does seem like it's
becoming more and more of the trend. And I guess,
without being too biased, you've got to think about our
own conditions too that we produce look as that suit
our bowlers. But I don't think it's as dramatic as
what you're seeing in the lu likes of Pakistan and
perhaps India.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, how much care do you prepare? Let's take it
at home. We know that when players or teams from
the hotter areas in the world, they generally get thrown
into the needing at the start of the series where
it's freezing cold is a bit a bit grassy. Is
that more of a pronounced advantage though, than what possibly
India and Pakistan have been preparing with their dust bowls?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, somewhat. I mean when overseas team when the Subcontinent
come to New Zealand, they do get you know, greener wickets.
And it's also the bounce too, you know, like they're
not used to that sort of movement off the scene
and then obviously the bounce, so that does sort of
catch them by surprise. I guess they shouldn't be surprised
by now, they've seen it a lot of times. But
(03:25):
also when you play the players of that base and
they always talk about how green the wicket is, and
it doesn't always plays as green as it appears, and
those games usually go right to the last day. When
you're talking about India and Sri Lanka and Bangladesh sometimes
in Pakistan, those games you know, if they are turning
wickets can finish in two and a half three days,
So it just I guess it's just different. But yeah,
(03:48):
I know people will accunt he's going cricket of doing
exactly the same thing, that's for sure, but.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Doesn't make a big difference when it comes to winning
the toss regardless of pitch preparation, because statistically, yeah, there
is still an advantage if you do win the toss
and you win them in your own conditions, but it's
maybe not as pronounced as people would like to think
it is.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, I mean to show you if you get it
wrong and that last Test and they've got it wrong
and look at it didn't it didn't end well, you
know they were finding the rest of those four days
or you know, the rest of that Test match after
winning the toss and making the wrong decisions. So you'd
have to say that, yes, winning the toss in the
right conditions, that could have easily been New Zealand bowled
out for forty or fifty. So you'd have to say
(04:29):
that winning the toss and the right type of conditions
will be of some assistance. That's for sure. You play
in England early season and it's cloudy, overcast and swinging,
that's obviously going to play into their hands if England
win the toss and it's the same when you get
to India. They came out and said as much. Rowitt
Sharma said that they misread the conditions and they would
(04:50):
have bowled first if they'd known how it was going
to play out. But yeah, it does. I think it
does have an advantage for sure, winning the toss.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Would it even playing fields somewhat? When teams visited they
had the choice whether they wanted a bat or bowl,
no toss at all? Right the way through the series?
Does it need to be there that extreme? Can it
be slightly different like ultimate choices? How would it work best?
Do you think right now?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Perhaps? I think that first the first comment you made was.
It was pretty accurate because that means that they'd have
to prepare somewhat of a fair wicket for that first day. Now,
if it deteriorates after three or four days, that's just
the natural course of a wicket weathering and people running
on it and bowlers running on and stuff like that,
and that's just natural causes. However, you'd have to prepare
somewhat of a fair wicket on that first day. And
(05:34):
I think you've seen it happen in county cricket. They've
been doing it a little bit in the second Division
and saying, hey, yeah, the away team can choose where
they want to bat and ball first, and it does
somewhat make the groundsman and also the association. You know,
whether that's at county level or international level, prepare a
decent wicket to start off with.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Does that take away from the competition at all? Until
you do it and play on it, you don't really know,
do you Have they noticed that in county cricket, I'm
not sure.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I mean, yeah, most of the teams that go there,
I guess if you look at the data. I haven't
looked at it too much, but i'd so just they
were bowl first and try and you know, skid all
the team betting first and Test matches, you know, over
five days you're going to get that natural weathering of
a wicket. And I would assume that most teams on
a flat wicket, obviously places like Australia, places like South Africa,
(06:22):
perhaps with bat first in India and the sub content,
you don't want to be betting last, so again you
probably looked to bat first, so the toss would become
more interesting or the team the decision would become more interesting,
and I think it would somewhat alter the balance for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Would that possibly run a hero make it all a
bit vanilla when actually the nations start preparing pictures that
don't do a great deal either way because they don't
want to be caught at the wrong end of it.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
If you know what I'm saying, Well, it's brazen at
the moment, and that's for sure, it's interesting, but also
probably they're putting it out there. Like I said, if
you saw the wicket that's being prepared in Pakistan with
the industrial fans at either end and some heaters and things,
it's pretty drum and you know what you're going to
expect there just trying to dry the wicked out and
it's going to be a dust ball and that's not
(07:12):
going to play into England's hands. For sure. They can
play three spinners, but their batters have to bat against
players who play in those conditions all the time. It's
going to make it a bit more boring possibly, But
is it going to make it more fair? Probably as well,
because like as the World Test Championship was a world
trophy on the line, and it's not like a World
Cup that's over in a month, right, This is an
(07:32):
eighteen month, two year cycle was two years worth of work,
you know, so it has to be somewhat fair over
that period of time.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Something about having the home advantage though, that I think
is comfortable a lot of people. He come to our house,
We're going to do whatever we want to try and
over turn you. And it's been like that historically. What
one hundred and fifty odd years Does that count for anything?
Or is this whole tradition concept ridiculous in this new
competitive day and age, Ronnie, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Good question. Probably, you know, times have change. Perhaps I
don't know whether we were in New Zealand, for example,
we have to prepare low and slow like one day
you know, one day wickets and they went very much
fun to play on. You can remember in Hamilton when
the pitch broke up and there were craters and things
like that. So you know, again we're not we're not
(08:20):
crystal clear or clean in this situation. We've done a
number of those things ourselves. But you know, I guess,
you know, when you're preparing a wicket to last five days,
it needs to start off in a reasonable condition for
it to last a whole five days, and I guess
the way that's being prepared and set up in some
of these other conditions, perhaps it's not even going to
last five days because they're anticipating the pitch being or
the game being finished in three and a half or
(08:41):
four days. You know, I think the ICC perhaps need
to get involved and have some minimum standards or what
the pitches need to be, and maybe that can control
it a bit. But like you say, it's either one.
I think it's either one thing or the other. Let
everybody do whatever they want and then what the outcome
will be, or have some sort of standards in place
(09:03):
to make sure that there are some sort of standard
of wickets at least.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Starting game and tootally, what are the players think sitting around,
throwing stories around in the sheds, changing rooms, you know,
having a drink afterwards in the bars. It's something that
comes up in conversations. That's something that gets addressed. What
are the players make.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
There's not much they can do really, you know they
ultimately cricket's the individual game and the some of his parts.
You are the team, right You're out there with the bat.
You've got to make the best of conditions. And you're
seeing guys like Devin Conway, for example, going through a
bit of a lean, lean patch of the moment with
the bat. Although he had a good innings in the
last test, he's playing in conditions that are completely against
(09:42):
his natural skill set and somewhat trying to make the
best of what he can. Right, So I guess you know,
when you go into those conditions, you try and prepare
the best you can. You face the net bowlers that
are available, you beat on the conditions that are there.
But yeah, I guess it wouldn't be much fun and
you can see your side struggling and those conditions where
New Zealand played really well. To be fair to them,
(10:04):
in the last Test, both with both with the bat
and both innings and with the ball clearly bowling a
team out for forty odd So they basically made them
maximize the use out of those conditions. But they'll be
sitting around thinking, look that prepares, the conditions are against us,
they're against our favor and how best can we confront this?
And I think if you look at something like England,
(10:26):
they'll just try and go and play their own cricket
and try and bash their way out of it. Now
that's one way to do it. Or do you take
the more New Zealand approach in terms of King Williamson
Tom Latham and try and stick it out. So there's
definitely two approaches or a few approaches to it. But
they'll be thinking about a method or they'll be thinking
about a way to try and maximize their time at
the wicket.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talks. It'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're joined now by Ronnie Hero. He is a former
Black Cap in the thought he played a handful of
T twenty international games, played a lot of his regular
domestic cricket for Auckland and for Canterbury as well. I mean,
be talking to Ronnie about the nature of the toss now,
the irony here as we talked about this this morning,
(00:34):
about the toss and how important it is or isn't
and should it be changed? And you know, India win
the toss and they insert themselves and it's trouble at
Mail and we're losing already, and of course what happens
to New Zealand when the toss and have done very well?
What ninety two for two? I think it is at
the end of the first session's play. But that's fantastic.
This has been discussed before, but I think it's getting
(00:55):
more and more relevant, the significance of the toss in
Test cricket. It's slightly more advances when you look at
the percentage of wins should you win the toss, but
when you look at the current era of cricket, the
import of Test match cricket victories, the ability of home
(01:19):
teams to prepare the pit exactly how they want it
to their benefit. Surely the incoming team should have some
kind of leg up and be able to determine whether
they bat first or bowl first, regardless of a piece
of blind luck, because that's what it is. He joins us. Now,
(01:43):
Ronnie here, Ronnie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Let's talk about the toss. This always comes up when
it looks like there's a massive advantage for whoever wins
the toss and a massive advantage for the home team
as they prep their decks. You'd know all about this.
Is there a pronounced advantage? Does it need to be
looked at?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I think you know obviously now they're playing for the
World Test Championship, those points are really crucial. And I
think if you look at what's going on in Pakistan
and how dramatic it looks with the fans and the
heaters and things trying to dry out the surface, you
can see that they're obviously trying to tailor the surface
for their their players and their conditions. So I think
perhaps something needs to be done about it. They also
(02:24):
played on a used wicket last time, which I don't
think was overly fair, But it does seem like it's
becoming more and more of the trend. And I guess,
without being too biased, you've got to think about our
own conditions too that we produce look as that suit
our bowlers. But I don't think it's as dramatic as
what you're seeing in the lu likes of Pakistan and
perhaps India.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, how much care do you prepare? Let's take it
at home. We know that when players or teams from
the hotter areas in the world, they generally get thrown
into the needing at the start of the series where
it's freezing cold is a bit a bit grassy. Is
that more of a pronounced advantage though, than what possibly
India and Pakistan have been preparing with their dust bowls?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, somewhat. I mean when overseas team when the Subcontinent
come to New Zealand, they do get you know, greener wickets.
And it's also the bounce too, you know, like they're
not used to that sort of movement off the scene
and then obviously the bounce, so that does sort of
catch them by surprise. I guess they shouldn't be surprised
by now, they've seen it a lot of times. But
(03:25):
also when you play the players of that base and
they always talk about how green the wicket is, and
it doesn't always plays as green as it appears, and
those games usually go right to the last day. When
you're talking about India and Sri Lanka and Bangladesh sometimes
in Pakistan, those games you know, if they are turning
wickets can finish in two and a half three days,
So it just I guess it's just different. But yeah,
(03:48):
I know people will accunt he's going cricket of doing
exactly the same thing, that's for sure, but.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Doesn't make a big difference when it comes to winning
the toss regardless of pitch preparation, because statistically, yeah, there
is still an advantage if you do win the toss
and you win them in your own conditions, but it's
maybe not as pronounced as people would like to think
it is.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, I mean to show you if you get it
wrong and that last Test and they've got it wrong
and look at it didn't it didn't end well, you
know they were finding the rest of those four days
or you know, the rest of that Test match after
winning the toss and making the wrong decisions. So you'd
have to say that, yes, winning the toss in the
right conditions, that could have easily been New Zealand bowled
out for forty or fifty. So you'd have to say
(04:29):
that winning the toss and the right type of conditions
will be of some assistance. That's for sure. You play
in England early season and it's cloudy, overcast and swinging,
that's obviously going to play into their hands if England
win the toss and it's the same when you get
to India. They came out and said as much. Rowitt
Sharma said that they misread the conditions and they would
(04:50):
have bowled first if they'd known how it was going
to play out. But yeah, it does. I think it
does have an advantage for sure, winning the toss.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Would it even playing fields somewhat? When teams visited they
had the choice whether they wanted a bat or bowl,
no toss at all? Right the way through the series?
Does it need to be there that extreme? Can it
be slightly different like ultimate choices? How would it work best?
Do you think right now?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Perhaps? I think that first the first comment you made was.
It was pretty accurate because that means that they'd have
to prepare somewhat of a fair wicket for that first day. Now,
if it deteriorates after three or four days, that's just
the natural course of a wicket weathering and people running
on it and bowlers running on and stuff like that,
and that's just natural causes. However, you'd have to prepare
somewhat of a fair wicket on that first day. And
(05:34):
I think you've seen it happen in county cricket. They've
been doing it a little bit in the second Division
and saying, hey, yeah, the away team can choose where
they want to bat and ball first, and it does
somewhat make the groundsman and also the association. You know,
whether that's at county level or international level, prepare a
decent wicket to start off with.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Does that take away from the competition at all? Until
you do it and play on it, you don't really know,
do you Have they noticed that in county cricket, I'm
not sure.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I mean, yeah, most of the teams that go there,
I guess if you look at the data. I haven't
looked at it too much, but i'd so just they
were bowl first and try and you know, skid all
the team betting first and Test matches, you know, over
five days you're going to get that natural weathering of
a wicket. And I would assume that most teams on
a flat wicket, obviously places like Australia, places like South Africa,
(06:22):
perhaps with bat first in India and the sub content,
you don't want to be betting last, so again you
probably looked to bat first, so the toss would become
more interesting or the team the decision would become more interesting,
and I think it would somewhat alter the balance for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Would that possibly run a hero make it all a
bit vanilla when actually the nations start preparing pictures that
don't do a great deal either way because they don't
want to be caught at the wrong end of it.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
If you know what I'm saying, Well, it's brazen at
the moment, and that's for sure, it's interesting, but also
probably they're putting it out there. Like I said, if
you saw the wicket that's being prepared in Pakistan with
the industrial fans at either end and some heaters and things,
it's pretty drum and you know what you're going to
expect there just trying to dry the wicked out and
it's going to be a dust ball and that's not
(07:12):
going to play into England's hands. For sure. They can
play three spinners, but their batters have to bat against
players who play in those conditions all the time. It's
going to make it a bit more boring possibly, But
is it going to make it more fair? Probably as well,
because like as the World Test Championship was a world
trophy on the line, and it's not like a World
Cup that's over in a month, right, This is an
(07:32):
eighteen month, two year cycle was two years worth of work,
you know, so it has to be somewhat fair over
that period of time.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Something about having the home advantage though, that I think
is comfortable a lot of people. He come to our house,
We're going to do whatever we want to try and
over turn you. And it's been like that historically. What
one hundred and fifty odd years Does that count for anything?
Or is this whole tradition concept ridiculous in this new
competitive day and age, Ronnie, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Good question. Probably, you know, times have change. Perhaps I
don't know whether we were in New Zealand, for example,
we have to prepare low and slow like one day
you know, one day wickets and they went very much
fun to play on. You can remember in Hamilton when
the pitch broke up and there were craters and things
like that. So you know, again we're not we're not
(08:20):
crystal clear or clean in this situation. We've done a
number of those things ourselves. But you know, I guess,
you know, when you're preparing a wicket to last five days,
it needs to start off in a reasonable condition for
it to last a whole five days, and I guess
the way that's being prepared and set up in some
of these other conditions, perhaps it's not even going to
last five days because they're anticipating the pitch being or
the game being finished in three and a half or
(08:41):
four days. You know, I think the ICC perhaps need
to get involved and have some minimum standards or what
the pitches need to be, and maybe that can control
it a bit. But like you say, it's either one.
I think it's either one thing or the other. Let
everybody do whatever they want and then what the outcome
will be, or have some sort of standards in place
(09:03):
to make sure that there are some sort of standard
of wickets at least.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Starting game and tootally, what are the players think sitting around,
throwing stories around in the sheds, changing rooms, you know,
having a drink afterwards in the bars. It's something that
comes up in conversations. That's something that gets addressed. What
are the players make.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
There's not much they can do really, you know they
ultimately cricket's the individual game and the some of his parts.
You are the team, right You're out there with the bat.
You've got to make the best of conditions. And you're
seeing guys like Devin Conway, for example, going through a
bit of a lean, lean patch of the moment with
the bat. Although he had a good innings in the
last test, he's playing in conditions that are completely against
(09:42):
his natural skill set and somewhat trying to make the
best of what he can. Right, So I guess you know,
when you go into those conditions, you try and prepare
the best you can. You face the net bowlers that
are available, you beat on the conditions that are there.
But yeah, I guess it wouldn't be much fun and
you can see your side struggling and those conditions where
New Zealand played really well. To be fair to them,
(10:04):
in the last Test, both with both with the bat
and both innings and with the ball clearly bowling a
team out for forty odd So they basically made them
maximize the use out of those conditions. But they'll be
sitting around thinking, look that prepares, the conditions are against us,
they're against our favor and how best can we confront this?
And I think if you look at something like England,
(10:26):
they'll just try and go and play their own cricket
and try and bash their way out of it. Now
that's one way to do it. Or do you take
the more New Zealand approach in terms of King Williamson
Tom Latham and try and stick it out. So there's
definitely two approaches or a few approaches to it. But
they'll be thinking about a method or they'll be thinking
about a way to try and maximize their time at
the wicket.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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