October 30, 2024 • 43 mins
ZB's own D'Arcy Waldegrave returns to cap off the week in the wonderful world of sport! Highlights for tonight include:
Sir Buck Shelford - On Joe Marler insulting the Haka.
Praveen Batish - INBL CEO on the Indian Panthers joining the NZNBL for 2025.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk zedbo.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Why, Hello there, welcome into sports Talk wonder what have
you on board? My name's Darcy Watergrave.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
This is it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's all sport from now through eight o'clock tonight, Oh
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We encourage your participation.
Will you welcome your participation? We gleefully accept it. You
can text if you're on nine two nine two ZBZB
it's a standard text charge. Come kiss a ring. Much
more fun plenty to talk about tonight. A couple of
(01:03):
pretty cool guests as well. Were to wind the show
up with Boven Butters. She's the Indian National Basketball League
Chief executive. Because if you haven't heard, I'll tell you
now two Indian teams men and women are entering sALS
(01:24):
NBL next season. How crazy and it could go on
and on and on. We'll find out why. We'll find
out how when we're joined by Pufving Butterish later on
in the piece. You didn't see this one coming, did you? Surreal?
We'll talk about that later. First up, though, we're going
(01:45):
to Yarn with Sir Wayne. Sir Wayne Buck Shelford, former
All Black skipper dead set leg into the wonderful wide
world of sport, and of course, the man who is
responsible for reviving the fortunes of the way back and
what was it nineteen eighty seven, We're going to get
his thoughts on Joe triggering everybody in New Zealand by
(02:08):
game blah blah blah, Harker blah blah blah. You see
your clock to a hagger blah blah blah, and then
running away from a social media cancel the tweet, canceled
his profile left on. We'll talk to Buck Shelford about
that shortly, and then we'll take your calls on one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. It should be allowed to
(02:32):
criticize the hagger, right, any pre game tradition, right, It's
okay to do that, isn't it. You tell me one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. But before any of that,
let's do this today and it's sport today. Black Caps
coach Gary Stead is bullish around New Zealand's prospects of
qualifying for another World Test Championship final.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
No, I remember the first time we were in the
situation of qualifying for the first WTC we had to
win four tests on the bounce and manage to so
hopefully there's some similarities to that that we can lean
on and say what we've done it before is an
opportunity to do something.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Hold on on here always what it was the math
around this to go to be India again and then
they've got a pump England when they come there, come,
Oh okay, it's possible. It's not out of the question.
It's good Like diamonds, Captain Liz Alice almost sounds checked
out here. Ahead of tonight's test versus the Silver Ferns
a last for the Aussies will leave them. What for?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Is it losing by of eighteen goals and whatever it was.
Something has to change and whether that's positions, personnel, whatever
it may be. We can't expect to always just put
the same thing out there and get a different result.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Not sounding great, Liz Alice, all black bias, Captain. This
is rich Ardie Savia saved himself from an unfortunate self
own with the media as he wags lyrical over the
new kid on the block, Wallace Stiti.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
The way he's playing here, it reminds me of better myself.
He can play eight, seven or six and be great
at it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm not saying I was great, but you know he's
he's quality and I've just take those right back again.
It's a fair mistake. We all do it because I
think all of us have played six, seven and eight
for the All Blacks, understand. I put it on your
Ardie and Reddy car Maestro Hayden Padden. It's been called
up to the Race of Champions to a multidisciplined race
(04:25):
event featuring, among others, Sebastian Federal or Sebastian Nick schu
Market Jamie Winkup. The list goes on a second Kiwi
for the team's event is still to be announced. And incidentally, Hayden,
what is the event?
Speaker 6 (04:39):
That's just a whole lot of unknown factors? Really is?
Speaker 7 (04:41):
I say, you don't know the cars you're driving, and
you don't know yet your competition terms of how fast.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
Are going to be.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
But it's very cut throats elimination.
Speaker 6 (04:47):
So you have one mistake on one one and you're out.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Wonder if one of the disciplines sticking it up on blocks,
changing all the wheels out, giving it a paint job
and flecking it on. There's a chop, there's a possible, No,
there isn't and that's sport today. We're joined now on
the program by Buck Shelford, or Sir Wayne Offered, as
he's otherwise known Buck. Welcome to the program. I trust you. Well, well, yeah,
(05:12):
great to have you on. But here we go again.
Joe Marler fanning the flames if you will, suggesting that
the Harker the pre match tradition is ridiculous and it
needs to be been. You can almost set your wats
to it, couldn't it. The complaints coming out of the
Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
Yeah, well, you know if he thinks that that it's
ridiculous that we're doing AKA, well his haircut is a
ridiculous study ECO for his age too.
Speaker 8 (05:37):
You know, what do you suggested?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
What do they do? Because this is something that's becoming
more and more prevalent globally in Rugby. I mean you
look at the Cippy town and the Cevy Town, the
Timby in the country.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
We've got cultures. We've got cultures down here in Polynesia,
Pacific Island, all the Pacific Island's got their own culture
and basically we should explore it, which we have for
the last hundred years we've used it and basically, why
should we take it away?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
What's the reaction like globally in your experience And I'm
not home because we know how much we love it here,
but that overseas is that embraced and accept it?
Speaker 6 (06:11):
Yes, I believe it is. Over in Japan, America, Canada,
they love it. They love it because you know, they're
not competitive competitives with us at the moment, you know,
but down the line in you know, twenty thirty years,
they might be, and they love it. I think it's
only the home nations that don't tend to enjoy it.
You know. The Welsh give us a bit of git
(06:32):
on it, you know, the Irish as well. You know,
the Home nations give us that gyp. But everywhere around
the rest of the world they love it. You know
that's because they that were showing them part of our culture.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Part of the fallback from people so well, no one
else really gets to do it. Why do you get
this advantage that's patently unfair. So besides, their haircut would
respond to that.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
Come on at the end of the day, it's not actually,
it's not something that actually unless you look at the
negative of it. They're looking at a negative they say, oh,
they give it, get an extra bit of a artige
by doing it. We get no advantage. Whatso, if you
haven't done your homework on the orbles, don't say anything
and it's your problem. Don't use that as an excuse
(07:15):
for you losing all the time to our team and something.
As you know, we're as good as you. Guys are
as good as us on your day and you can
beat us at any time. It's not about the hocker.
It's about how you play rugby, So just get on
and play rugby. Leave the other stuff alone. And basically
we're there to show part of New Zealand off, which
is that our hacker and all of our teams have it.
(07:36):
All the Polynesian teams have it as well. So I
think that it's brilliant. It's a great add on to
the whole ceremony of when you do basically hear your
national anthems. It's just to follow on from there. And
so you know, we've only just comeing too, you know
the twenty years twenty thirty years now we've been doing
(07:57):
the national anthem and they don't say anything about that.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, you mean as in the version of a national anthem. Yeah, no,
one seems to worry too much.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
Initially, initially back in the day, the young lady who'd
done it day, basically she is reprimanded for it. And
this is from our own country, and so thing is,
we're going to get with it. You know, we're actually here.
We're never going to leave this place, and this is
part of our culture. If you don't like it, go
back to where you come from.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Buck's helf for joining the program. But I'm sure that
he's not doing his teammates any favor by coming out
and saying this. I don't think it helps their cause
at all. Does it give more strength to the arm
of the New Zealanders when someone openly criticized.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
Something like this, No, I don't think so. Our guys
are over it. You know that you get you know,
you get criticized every year if somebody criticizes it. And
the thing is, but what do you think we get
out of it? It's just it's just the hakka. We
don't get any advantage from it. I tell you, it's
actually how the team plays on the day. That's that's
all the advantage we can get about it. Think about
(09:01):
is playing the game of football as hard as fast
as we can, and some team's going to one team
is going to come out in the winter draw or lost.
So you know, we just got to get on with
what makes us stick. And that's because we love the
game of rugby and we introduced that to Hako into
the or Blacks many many years ago and before he
was born. So at the end of the day, unless
(09:22):
you know our culture, you shouldn't be talking about it.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And but look, let's talk about it. It's well known that
when you turned up to the All Blacks and it
took over the captain saying that unbeaten perage you went
through in the late eighties, that you revitalized the Harker.
It was getting butchered and you thought, this is something
that's really important not only to Mardy but to New
Zealand as well. We've got to change it, we've got
(09:47):
to give it some credibility. Did you ever think that
it had caused this much trouble, like thirty forty years later.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Well, I don't think it's trouble. I think it's a
part of our part of our history and part of
our culture. New Zealand's culture is our Maori culture. Now
all the other people come from overseas, but our culture
here in New Zealand is Mardi and so they is.
We've got a live with that, you know. That's that's
that's our history of this country going back, you know,
(10:15):
seven eight hundred years. And so you know, at the
end of the day, we're blended together pretty well over
the years, and you know, we're working together in a
lot of things. And at the end of the day,
it's only a game of sport that we're playing, and
so we're adding a bit of cultural sincerity towards it
on both sides, and which is basically our national anthems.
(10:37):
We do it in two languages. South America does it
in three languages. Things like that. So at the end
of the day, what are you moaning about? You know,
we actually get on with the game, and that's the
most important thing.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
What's the best way to respond to this from from
a team perspective when an opposing nation comes over here
or we're at home in there, what's acceptable what's unacceptable?
Doesn't really matter how they react.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Oh really, I just think that the English are proably
the worst at trying to change will change it, not
not much change it, but being vocalized about it, you know,
And I think that if they haven't done their homework
and their preparation for their game. You know, at the
end of the day, it's all of it is a dance,
a coupe of dance, ceremony, and it's basically it's all
(11:23):
it's out of respect for you as the opposition, and
basically out of respect for ourselves who are doing it too,
because sometimes we're in your country, sometimes you're in our country,
and so as we do it both sides, and we've
never done in a New Zealan until eighty seven, and
so we started doing it here and maybe we shouldn't
do it here. At the end of the day, it's
(11:44):
more like a welcome of respect as well. So we're
playing you, welcome to our country, good luck for you,
and you know, the luck goes both ways.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Sorry. A lot of people say that it's an act
of aggression and it's a war dance and it's a challenge.
I suppose it's what you read in Tepaja's words, because
there's a part of this that is an act of
thanks for what the tribe did that protected him. So
where where does it sit for you? Is a welcome
and challenger war dance?
Speaker 5 (12:12):
What actually is it's it's everything because it's utilized in
different ways. The hucker doesn't mean have to be come
up here the hacker come up here. Every province in
New Zealand has got their own hucker, no doubt, every well,
all the supersides have got their own hucker, but they
don't use it all the time.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
But if they have to. South Africans come here and
eight mates sure in thet couple of years, every promise
that plays them will do the hucker without without of that,
you know, And so they don't do it all the time.
But it's it's basically the hacker is like a marker
respect as well, and that's why we do it at
tongueies as well, because we respect the person who's passed
away and he gets huckered out and only only the
(12:53):
tea to get huckered out. And usually when there's somebody
in that club very you know, one of the club
members who was a great player during his day, he
got to an age and he passed away, he'd get
huckered out of the club and that's a marker. So
it's not all about dying, but where you know this
person has died and we huck other guy out because
it's you know, he's got under steve a status status,
(13:15):
So it's you know, you can take it in a
lot of ways, but we know how to use it.
They don't. They just think of the negative more than
anything else.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
You hear it from the biggest names and sports men.
Have your say on eighty Sports Talk or more on
your home of sports and news Talks, it'd.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Be it's sir Wayne Shelford, Buck Shelford. They're a man
who reinvigorated the Harker when he became the All Black
captain way back in the late eighties, primarily because it
was a shambles before he took hold of it and
he believed it disgrace marn tongue. And that's understandable if
you've seen those whole videos of the arga. She was
(13:53):
a bit messy, to say the least. So plainly he's like,
you know what, get your haircut properly, Marla and leave
ar salone. We don't want a bar of it. I
quite like this debate because you can see you go
go on. It's always the English, isn't it all the
whales showing the Scottish ever got up in arms about it.
But that's something about it that just in triggers these guys,
(14:14):
so they have a go in saying that. I really
don't mind if Joe Marlert criticizes it. I think he
should be allowed to criticize it. I don't think it's sacred.
I think it's sacrifice. It's not something that everybody else
(14:35):
has to accept with open arms. It just isn't. There's
no edict in world rugby that said you must respect this,
respond how you want at your own peril. And I
loved it when you get crowds trying to sing and
drown out the heart in South Africa marvelous. What about
that that V formation they busted out in twenty nineteen,
(14:58):
The Younger is there one. It was amazing. All the
other teams that do with the thinbe from the Fijians,
the Cividale and the and the Sip Hotel from the Tongminans,
and then the Someone's. You've got the Australians, the Aboriginals
with some of their indigenous dance actions going on too.
(15:19):
It's not unusual. It's a way of expressing the way
the team feel and it is unique, but I think
you should still be able to criticize it. Oh, you
will get laughed at and people will poke fun at
you and poke holes and you say whatever you don't like,
(15:39):
I don't watch it. And as for this gives you
an advantage thing, If it really gave the All Blacks
or the Tall Blacks, or the Ice Blacks, or the
sevens team or the Kiwi of if it really gave
(16:00):
them an advantage, they probably should have one hundred percent
record last time I checked. The All Blacks are quite
good at losing. You know. It's not some kind of
magic cloak of invincibility that can put on and run
through everybody. It's an expression of New Zealand that the
(16:20):
All Blacks have taken in hand on other teams, and
they're allowed to express it, and they do and it
gets right under the skin of people who speaks of
people like Joe Marler. So my question to you, should
he be allowed to criticize the Hager? I say, absolutely,
knock yourself out. Fact please knock yourself out to be
(16:42):
better out doing that. But I think you should be
able to. I think all traditions everything, it's fine. To
about to voice your displeasure at it, and it's how
we respond. And I'm not angry. When it came out
this morning, I was amused. It's like, really he's still
going on about this, bro? Really still Dude's laughable? Mate,
(17:08):
your point in your life, as well as any other
question around this. So I'm asking about people being allowed
to criticize the haka pregame traditions such as that, is
it overused? Is that what greats people? What time?
Speaker 6 (17:28):
It is?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Is it? We've got a number of sports that use
it and a fair game, it's up to them go
for it. I'm really interested in what triggers people around this.
I don't think it's overused, and I think Marlas should
be able to criticize it as long as he can
deal with a bit of whiplash from the players, from
the fans, from the commentators, from the Warriors on social media.
(17:55):
It's not a cloak of invincibility. Still lose seven twenty
four sports talker and news talk to eb lines or
having eight hundred and eighty ten eighty criticize all you
want doesn't bother me, and hacker until your heart's content
doesn't bother me either. They's to their own this News
Talks c B twenty four past the seven.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I need someone and I profer to take on back
to my hometastaze.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It just only it's a loon.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
The right call is your call on eight hundred and
eighty to eighty Sports Talk. Call on your home of
Sports News Talk.
Speaker 9 (18:34):
Z B.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Ain't like I can make this cord of the sun
by myself. You help me twenty seven seven Sports Talk
Care on News Talks e B oh eight one hundred
and eighty ten eighty three phone number Nation Ye text
that'll cost just down to text charge nineteen ninety two.
That is z B z B plain. They'd love to
hear your voice. Quick couple of texts and will jump
(18:59):
to Anthony Darcy Marlequin say whatever really likes. I love
the hucker, but what I don't like is the feeling
I get the hackers turning into a marketing gimmick rather
than a cultural challenge. I get that, Anthony, welcome to
the show.
Speaker 8 (19:19):
How are you good evening? So I've got nothing against
the Huker. I think it's good for business. I don't know.
I don't know if if all sports seems to the
hacker but what they should just start thinking about is
what will happen when the hacker does shut When You're
Blacks shut down and the Hucker does eventually shut down,
(19:40):
what will come after that?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
So you think if the All Blacks are playing poorly
and they're no longer relevant, that will detract from the
Harker too.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
No, I think it's good for business at the moment,
But I don't know if theory is that there will
be a one will come one day when your Blacks
won't be anymore and they won't need to use the
Harker anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, if it's not just the all Blacks, as the
hacker is not a sporting jem yesture, it's deeply rooted
in Marty. That's where it comes from. Initially, it is
this first. It's not sports first. It's a it's a
it's a it's a challenge, it's a thanks, it's a
sign of respect that it's it's a whole lot of
(20:22):
different things, and it's something that's very traditional within the
Mardi culture, which is why we see it yeah down.
Speaker 8 (20:31):
Eventually they'll shut it down and something else, a new
phenomenon will come.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, Okay, Anthony, thanks for sharing your opinion. I don't
know if you can something that's so rich and cultural
it can just be shut down, cant it? I think
that's Look again, you've got your opinion, feel free to share.
Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty. But this is
(20:57):
this is something that is attached to something different, not
just sport. Sport just cottoned onto it later on the
piece pleasant, but a quid, this is a mere Darcy,
you flogged that for all it was worth. He answered
the same question about ten times. I think you annoyed
him in the end. Thank you very much for that insight.
(21:20):
Mark appreciate it. Someone else writes, Darcy, scrap the bloody hacker.
I make the national anthem an orchestra like some other
countries do what the copy somebody else that I don't
agree with. They're doing it, so let's do it too unique?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Hey Jamie, how are you?
Speaker 10 (21:40):
Mate?
Speaker 8 (21:41):
Hey?
Speaker 10 (21:42):
That's not fear, mate, that's not feared. Are we going
to try and not let the all blecks do? The hacker?
Come on me? It's like everybody else does it, like Fiji.
Everybody does it, Mate, everybody does it. Why can't we
do it?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I don't have a problem with it myself. Here's the
extended for me, Jamie. If you don't like something, you
don't engage in it.
Speaker 10 (22:08):
Right, hang on, No, that's wrong. If we don't lost
something too bad like some does that, Fiji does it,
Toma does it, everybody does it, why can't we do it?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
No, I don't think I'm not telling anyone to stop anything.
I think it upsets and triggers people for some unknown reason.
But I'm saying, if there's something in the world that
I don't like, right, okay, I just don't don't I.
Speaker 10 (22:29):
Don't engage it. Why should an Englishman tell us we
can't do it?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Because he's getting click bait? Because you know, it really
triggers the English and I think his podcast is slipping
in numbers. So if he'd climb in there and know
that he'd cause the ruckus by doing it, that's why.
Speaker 10 (22:46):
Well, I'm not I'm happy with that. I'm not happy
with that at all, because this is our this is
our culture, right, this is our mildy culture. We should
be allowed to do what we do when we do
it like it's unwoldy cultivate, you know, you know, granted.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
But just because it's important to you, and it's important
to Mardi culture. It doesn't mean to say it's important
to other people. They're quite within their rights to criticize it, right.
Speaker 10 (23:12):
I agree, I agree, But but everybody else gets to
do it. Why can't we do it? It's just a hacker, bro,
you know, it's just a hacker. It's just a song.
It's just a buddy songs. But now we're not able
to do the song anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
No, no, no, no, no one said that, Jamie. And it's
not just a song. It's so much more complex. And
there's quite a few texts talking about saying it's award
award dance. Well, if you listened to Buck before, it's
so much more than a war dance. It's about celebration,
it's about thanks, it's about respect. They see people off
(23:55):
after they die with the hard there's not a war dance.
They're not challenging the departed to a scrap. It means
so much. It's so complex, and I think a lot
of people that they don't quite understand where it comes from.
It's all too much. So like most things in life,
if people don't understand it, they kick out against it.
(24:15):
Surprised people aren't calling it woke. Quite frankly, there's another one,
the Harker Is Award. It's not a war dance. Now
right the way back through the history and all the
obvious thing here is when hackers performed at someone's funeral,
someone's tonguey, it's not a war. It's a mark of
respect to a respected and fallen member of the community.
(24:40):
So got to understand it. And if you don't, well
maybe I know, do your own research. As they say,
Hey John, how are you?
Speaker 11 (24:50):
Hey, I'm good Man good. My little take on it
is love the Harker, totally love it. But to expect
other people to respect it and they don't understand it.
That's not the game that it's hard of anymore. And secondly,
no problem doing it before match when the opposition have
a hardkout to do in response like Tonga, Fiji Samoa. Nope,
(25:13):
that makes perfect sense. Alternatively to me, in the big
Test natures, if you're playing against a team that doesn't
have that as part of their culture, they don't understand it.
Do it at the end the way that the seventh
team does it. Once they've won a tournament. They do
the hard out after the game, that to me would
be probably the best answer going forward.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
That might play hate some people. I think people who
genuinely don't like it wouldn't want to see it at
all end or beginning.
Speaker 11 (25:42):
Yeah, but then you don't have a choice in the
beginning to miss it. Nobody wants to miss the kickoff
of the game.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Well, if you're alive the team in the game, you don't.
If you're watching it on TV, just play at the start.
There was so much about pregame.
Speaker 12 (26:00):
You tell me what the game kicks do?
Speaker 11 (26:03):
You tell me what time the game kicks off? About
the Racker set was caused in South Africa in the
Harker miss timed.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
They very very flew over the top.
Speaker 11 (26:15):
Machine and then they flew in airplane over there. An
aeroplane was was primed to be at a certain spot
at a certain time, but it happened is the old
Lats were slightly late because they were paying respect rightfully,
so so they delayed the whole process to start their
Harker just saying they have two sides to every story.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, yeah, see, John, I didn't. I had actually rewind
it and watched that afterwards because I just have it
on silent at the start. I mean normally I video
these things a video. I'm so old I don't watch them.
Later on on the piece, I mean I watched some
live stuff, but generally pregame stuff. Oh one hundred and eighty,
(27:05):
give us a call. I love to hear from your
nineteen nineteen z B z B. Later, one of the
peaks were joined by Paving Batters. She is the Indian
National Basketball League at chief executive. Talking about the inclusion
of I didn't say she, producer Andy reckons I said she,
I didn't. I No, I didn't. Anyway, he's the man
(27:30):
behind that. He's the man behind the Indian Panthers into
the New Zealand Basketball League. This is news Talk B
seven thirty six. But I did not say, she setting
(27:55):
that thirty nine Sports Dog one News Talks eb A text. No,
it's a water. No it's not. It's a number of things.
That's many things. So go away, Hi, Tony, how are you.
Speaker 12 (28:06):
Good evening? I enjoyed your interview, and I learned quite
a bit from Sir buck Shelford. But the only question
I hit was and when I watched the Harker sometimes
I do that gesture where they sort of make out
the sort of putting their hand across their throat. I
would have been interested to see what he would have
said that actually meant, because you know, some people, including me,
(28:27):
would take it a bit that they sort of want
to sit the opposition's throat, which is obviously probably not right.
But I just wondered, because sometimes, you know, that's the
only part of it that I sort of I find
a bit sore, we say, being China, but confusing as
to what that gesture means. Perhaps you could shed some light.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
On Yeah, Tony, I know what you mean, because when
that hacker was first performed solely for the All Blacks,
that was explained away as being drawn the breath of
life upward. Oh okay, that's what has explained, and they
change that. They modified the movement for that so people
weren't so triggered by it. But I've noticed in recent
(29:06):
times more and more the players are making that elaborate
right across the neck, and I'm like, wow, it's supposed
to be coming up. It's supposed to be that, and
that does to me seem a tad on the unnecessarily
aggressive side.
Speaker 12 (29:22):
So Tony, but I just wondered, if you if you
if you're so shamed we didn't you didn't sort of
maybe you said Mucket have shed a bit of more
light on that, But that's I like watching the hark it.
Don't get me wrong, I either say I was interested
to learn a lot from this interview. Explained it really well,
but that's the only thing that really concerns me about it,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
No, right, so, Tony, I still flinch that coming. You
don't really need to do that. Can you maybe just
lift it? Because it was Aldy save in all sorts
of trouble for really overstating that. And I think taking
away from the meaning of it and turning it into
an act of out and out aggression probably not ideal.
Hey Kristin, how are you?
Speaker 9 (29:59):
Ah? Hello? It's not the rugby game kind of a
b aggressive. But anyway, apart from that, I adore Henew Mohi,
who sang the New Zealand anthem in Terreal as.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Well all those years ago. Of course the right ruckers,
I know the.
Speaker 9 (30:30):
Words and yeah, and she is absolutely strong and beautiful
and I've got both her albums and on album on
Oceana on Chanya track two Kotahi Tanga, which means union
(30:58):
and that as such an inspiring moving song.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
An amazing ability to do that Dales and to draw
so much emotion. Forth get you, Kristen. Thanks for your call, Yarn, Hi, Hey,
how's it going well? It's going forward. It's all about
go forward in this industry, isn't it?
Speaker 7 (31:20):
Yearn Absolutely absolutely. I just want to weigh in about
this Hardker check and yeah, look I enjoyed the hark
as much as the other guy, and I agree with
one of the other callers. You know, when you've got
two New Zealand and the Pacific nations, you know, once
team will put the challenge, then the other one would
(31:41):
accept by doing the version of the hard Cup. But
for all the other teams you need to just stand
there and take it. And for me, that's where, you know,
I don't find that entertaining.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I wonder yan about that when it comes to how
they're supposed to respond, and I think that's better respond
exactly how they want. They turn their backs, they ignore it,
they do the flying v the crowd drowned out with
their song. I don't think it needs to be wholly
respected by everybody at all. Let them do their business,
but don't onto them, and that's problematic.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
Yeah, the expectation is that teams standy and kind of
take it. That is how how they respect the harker
from from I understand from when teams or players have reacted,
somebody might have grinned or or whatever, and then they
would be ridiculed for being disrespectful. Now I don't remember
nineteen ninety five World Cup Final and Quivers Visa Joona
(32:38):
Alma right at the end, walked up to each other,
looked at each other in the eyes. I think the
lasers might have touched you know that kind of thing.
It brings a bit of emotion, a bit of excitement
to it. I don't want to see the ark had
not being performed, but I would like them to. And
this comes from World Rude if I understanding right, they
need to have a look at that and allow teams
(33:00):
to find a way to to to react. Otherwise you
get the crowd stuffed reacting like you test earlier this
year at our spark with a crowd reacted, and then
that's also going us that's disrespectful, which maybe it was.
But yeah, I like Jaka. I don't think Joe Marla
has got an idea of what he's saying in any
(33:21):
way half the time. But but yeah, blood heats on
the head.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know, you leave props alone. Not that I've ever
been in the front row. Hey, thanks very much for
your import most appreciated. I had eighty This is news
talking to be on sports all that is quarter to eight.
Good show tonight, writes Jay, A brave topic, got a
new for introducing opinions from both sides. Respect is always
(33:51):
interesting to me. I don't think you can force respect
on anybody, and you should not be able to force
respect on anybody. Something that is earned, and it's not
up to you to determine what other people think of
what you do. Hukka, brilliant, spine chilling, incredible. We've got
(34:14):
all sorts of different teams and sports teams to do it,
and it is a state of pride when they do it,
just because it's something you're proud of and you work
for and it's part of your heritage. Doesn't mean to
say that the guy the girl on the other side
of the white line has to respect you. I don't.
It's crazy trying to push that on people. Do it
(34:36):
for yourself, and do it for them and Joe get
a haircut first coming from me exally, I'm due and
you mullets, what do you reckon tomorrow? Yeah, here comes
Carl Coming up next on News Talks there Be, we're
going to talk Indian basketball in New Zealand having butterish.
(35:01):
He joins us next to talk about where it came from,
why it's here. That's coming up shortly on he talks
nine Joy the Harker is better than stealing a slave
(35:23):
revolt song like swing Low Sweet Chiliot Charry. I don't
know where they got that from. Where's the relevance? There?
A sind the arts content. It's all good. That's this
News Talks there Be. Today it was announced that there
will be two Indian expansion teams involved in Cells NBL,
the men's version to either woman's version. They are Indian based, well,
(35:44):
they're actually going to be based in South Auckland a probe.
Predominantly they are from India. The name is the Indian Panthers.
And we're joined now by a man who is behind
this expansion side. His name is Paven Butts. It joins
us now, Paven, good day to you.
Speaker 13 (36:05):
Sir, day to you too. I'm very good thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Huge news today that there is going to be the
Indian Panthers involved in our very owner NBL, both men
and women, tapping into what would expect. There's what's hardly
the smallest market in the world, is it.
Speaker 13 (36:24):
No, it's it's fairly big, but it's a it's a
it's a great opportunity for Indian players. To be honest
with you, if I give you a little bit of
background on the way that basketball is played in India,
you'll you'll understand why. You know, it's a popular sport,
but you know, nothing like cricket. You'll find a basketball
hoop in practically every score that you that you would visit.
(36:47):
The issues become as you get older that there's no
real pathways, you know, once you leave university, so people
end up playing, you know, kind of local basketball or statewide.
There's no real professional sports when it comes to basketball.
If you're very good, then you make it offered a
job with an institution like the railways or the army
(37:08):
or Navy, which is kind of your pathway to staying
within the sport because they allow you the opportunity to play,
especially if you play for the national team and so on.
So there's no real professionals, so this is a great
opportunity to open up a different pathway for some players
by bringing them over here and actually playing in a
(37:29):
home and away league, which you know they're not used to.
They're very much used to tournament play, which you may
last eight to ten days, you play a game every day,
but doesn't really help with your development in the way
that we're used to. So it's a great opportunity to
bring those players play in this league, but also to
play with international players. So you know, we'll supplement the
(37:53):
team with players from New Zealand or from Australia or
from the US, you know, your traditional imports, and give
them that opportunity to play with and against good quality
players and hopefully improve their skills.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I wouldn't say that Indian basketball is a hot bat.
I don't think many people would have heard of it.
But how big are we talking? How many people engage
at that lower level because there's no professional route for them?
And whereabouts? Is that the main focus? India is a
big place. Is it all over the shop puving.
Speaker 13 (38:25):
Or yeah, look at you know, the sport is played
across every state. Obviously there's some where it's more popular
than others. So you know, the national competition involves all
if I remember correctly, the all twenty eight states that play.
It's difficult to gauge the popularity because there's no real
(38:45):
numbers that we can refer back to. You know, there's
not the registration in the way that we might we
might see it. They play at at state level competitions
or even local level competition. There's lots of tournaments that
pop up three on three tournaments or four five on
five tournaments. So the sport is popular and it's you know,
(39:06):
there's a there's a following for the sport and people
know each other in the sport. The opportunity we have
is is really to encourage more people to play because
they start to see a pathway outside of just India.
And bearing in mind that you've got two types of audiences.
You've got, you know, one group of people who already
(39:27):
know about the sport and follow you know, things like
the NBA and in fact follow the New Zealand MBL
on feb And then you've got another group of people
who are interested in playing. And our job is to
is to is to try and bring those two groups
together by giving them an opportunity to watch, you know,
a league where there's actually Indian players involved in that league,
(39:48):
not just the one off who may make it to
the NBA, NBA or or whatever.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Geese. He's the Indian Panthers CEO. So how does this
come about?
Speaker 13 (39:58):
That's an interesting story. So we've been running some initiatives
in India for for about three and a half years now,
and I actually rank just who's well known as an innovator,
and to pick his brain on things like the Rapid
League and so on. And that short conversation turned into
I think an hour's conversation with potential opportunities for running
(40:21):
a you know, an Indian player's based team in you know,
well we didn't know at the time where it would be.
And that conversation progressed very rapidly into an MU and
then we signed the agreement a few weeks back, so
that all of that took probably about five or six
months if that, So it was very quick. But you know,
(40:42):
like minded people make things happen, and it was you know,
all down to him and him asking me questions and
probing and next thing we knew, Yeah, we had an
MoU and here we are.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Doesn't surprise me at all from what I know of
Justin Neilson. I mean, well, what about money involved here?
How expensive is this going to be? Where's the funding
coming from? Because at the base of it, you can't
get behind a sporting team if you haven't got any dollars.
Speaker 13 (41:07):
Indeed, look, obviously our cost will be slightly higher because
we'll be bringing players in from India and we'll have
to house them and so on for five months and
then for three months with the women. So yeah, it's
going to be it's going to be a little bit different.
We're no different to any other franchise. You know, we'll
be looking at sponsors, We'll be looking to our investors
(41:28):
and so on to provide that that income. And as
we get the opportunity to grow into India, we think
that it will become commercially more and more viable for
us into into the future. So you know, we're not
expecting to be making millions of dollars after the first
year or two, but it's a long term project and
we'll see, you know, who we can we can get involved.
(41:51):
There's a big Indian community here and the one thing
about you know, like most people from You know that
that go and live in a different country, is that
they like to hold onto connections back to their country.
We're no different. I'm the same, and I think giving
the Indian community here that opportunity to have some links
back is going to hopefully draw people to come and
(42:13):
watch the games, but also sponsors and help us fund
what we're what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
No need for the TMO. We've got the breakdown on
Sports Talk call.
Speaker 10 (42:25):
News Talks.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I was paving, but one of the main behind the
Indian side, well two of them to come on to
sales NBO and Toehi Basketball next season. It takes me,
is this a race based team? This coach and it Steve,
it's a it's a it's a country based team that
from India.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
Wow Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Thanks hading Up for producing the program, Thanks to all
the quarters, Thanks for Texas, thanks for your ears and
ownsing Water Grave becking in tomorrow on newshe TB.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk zedbo.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Why, Hello there, welcome into sports Talk wonder what have
you on board? My name's Darcy Watergrave.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
This is it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's all sport from now through eight o'clock tonight, Oh
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We encourage your participation.
Will you welcome your participation? We gleefully accept it. You
can text if you're on nine two nine two ZBZB
it's a standard text charge. Come kiss a ring. Much
more fun plenty to talk about tonight. A couple of
(01:03):
pretty cool guests as well. Were to wind the show
up with Boven Butters. She's the Indian National Basketball League
Chief executive. Because if you haven't heard, I'll tell you
now two Indian teams men and women are entering sALS
(01:24):
NBL next season. How crazy and it could go on
and on and on. We'll find out why. We'll find
out how when we're joined by Pufving Butterish later on
in the piece. You didn't see this one coming, did you? Surreal?
We'll talk about that later. First up, though, we're going
(01:45):
to Yarn with Sir Wayne. Sir Wayne Buck Shelford, former
All Black skipper dead set leg into the wonderful wide
world of sport, and of course, the man who is
responsible for reviving the fortunes of the way back and
what was it nineteen eighty seven, We're going to get
his thoughts on Joe triggering everybody in New Zealand by
(02:08):
game blah blah blah, Harker blah blah blah. You see
your clock to a hagger blah blah blah, and then
running away from a social media cancel the tweet, canceled
his profile left on. We'll talk to Buck Shelford about
that shortly, and then we'll take your calls on one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. It should be allowed to
(02:32):
criticize the hagger, right, any pre game tradition, right, It's
okay to do that, isn't it. You tell me one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. But before any of that,
let's do this today and it's sport today. Black Caps
coach Gary Stead is bullish around New Zealand's prospects of
qualifying for another World Test Championship final.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
No, I remember the first time we were in the
situation of qualifying for the first WTC we had to
win four tests on the bounce and manage to so
hopefully there's some similarities to that that we can lean
on and say what we've done it before is an
opportunity to do something.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Hold on on here always what it was the math
around this to go to be India again and then
they've got a pump England when they come there, come,
Oh okay, it's possible. It's not out of the question.
It's good Like diamonds, Captain Liz Alice almost sounds checked
out here. Ahead of tonight's test versus the Silver Ferns
a last for the Aussies will leave them. What for?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Is it losing by of eighteen goals and whatever it was.
Something has to change and whether that's positions, personnel, whatever
it may be. We can't expect to always just put
the same thing out there and get a different result.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Not sounding great, Liz Alice, all black bias, Captain. This
is rich Ardie Savia saved himself from an unfortunate self
own with the media as he wags lyrical over the
new kid on the block, Wallace Stiti.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
The way he's playing here, it reminds me of better myself.
He can play eight, seven or six and be great
at it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm not saying I was great, but you know he's
he's quality and I've just take those right back again.
It's a fair mistake. We all do it because I
think all of us have played six, seven and eight
for the All Blacks, understand. I put it on your
Ardie and Reddy car Maestro Hayden Padden. It's been called
up to the Race of Champions to a multidisciplined race
(04:25):
event featuring, among others, Sebastian Federal or Sebastian Nick schu
Market Jamie Winkup. The list goes on a second Kiwi
for the team's event is still to be announced. And incidentally, Hayden,
what is the event?
Speaker 6 (04:39):
That's just a whole lot of unknown factors? Really is?
Speaker 7 (04:41):
I say, you don't know the cars you're driving, and
you don't know yet your competition terms of how fast.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
Are going to be.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
But it's very cut throats elimination.
Speaker 6 (04:47):
So you have one mistake on one one and you're out.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Wonder if one of the disciplines sticking it up on blocks,
changing all the wheels out, giving it a paint job
and flecking it on. There's a chop, there's a possible, No,
there isn't and that's sport today. We're joined now on
the program by Buck Shelford, or Sir Wayne Offered, as
he's otherwise known Buck. Welcome to the program. I trust you. Well, well, yeah,
(05:12):
great to have you on. But here we go again.
Joe Marler fanning the flames if you will, suggesting that
the Harker the pre match tradition is ridiculous and it
needs to be been. You can almost set your wats
to it, couldn't it. The complaints coming out of the
Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
Yeah, well, you know if he thinks that that it's
ridiculous that we're doing AKA, well his haircut is a
ridiculous study ECO for his age too.
Speaker 8 (05:37):
You know, what do you suggested?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
What do they do? Because this is something that's becoming
more and more prevalent globally in Rugby. I mean you
look at the Cippy town and the Cevy Town, the
Timby in the country.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
We've got cultures. We've got cultures down here in Polynesia,
Pacific Island, all the Pacific Island's got their own culture
and basically we should explore it, which we have for
the last hundred years we've used it and basically, why
should we take it away?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
What's the reaction like globally in your experience And I'm
not home because we know how much we love it here,
but that overseas is that embraced and accept it?
Speaker 6 (06:11):
Yes, I believe it is. Over in Japan, America, Canada,
they love it. They love it because you know, they're
not competitive competitives with us at the moment, you know,
but down the line in you know, twenty thirty years,
they might be, and they love it. I think it's
only the home nations that don't tend to enjoy it.
You know. The Welsh give us a bit of git
(06:32):
on it, you know, the Irish as well. You know,
the Home nations give us that gyp. But everywhere around
the rest of the world they love it. You know
that's because they that were showing them part of our culture.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Part of the fallback from people so well, no one
else really gets to do it. Why do you get
this advantage that's patently unfair. So besides, their haircut would
respond to that.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
Come on at the end of the day, it's not actually,
it's not something that actually unless you look at the
negative of it. They're looking at a negative they say, oh,
they give it, get an extra bit of a artige
by doing it. We get no advantage. Whatso, if you
haven't done your homework on the orbles, don't say anything
and it's your problem. Don't use that as an excuse
(07:15):
for you losing all the time to our team and something.
As you know, we're as good as you. Guys are
as good as us on your day and you can
beat us at any time. It's not about the hocker.
It's about how you play rugby, So just get on
and play rugby. Leave the other stuff alone. And basically
we're there to show part of New Zealand off, which
is that our hacker and all of our teams have it.
(07:36):
All the Polynesian teams have it as well. So I
think that it's brilliant. It's a great add on to
the whole ceremony of when you do basically hear your
national anthems. It's just to follow on from there. And
so you know, we've only just comeing too, you know
the twenty years twenty thirty years now we've been doing
(07:57):
the national anthem and they don't say anything about that.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, you mean as in the version of a national anthem. Yeah, no,
one seems to worry too much.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
Initially, initially back in the day, the young lady who'd
done it day, basically she is reprimanded for it. And
this is from our own country, and so thing is,
we're going to get with it. You know, we're actually here.
We're never going to leave this place, and this is
part of our culture. If you don't like it, go
back to where you come from.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Buck's helf for joining the program. But I'm sure that
he's not doing his teammates any favor by coming out
and saying this. I don't think it helps their cause
at all. Does it give more strength to the arm
of the New Zealanders when someone openly criticized.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
Something like this, No, I don't think so. Our guys
are over it. You know that you get you know,
you get criticized every year if somebody criticizes it. And
the thing is, but what do you think we get
out of it? It's just it's just the hakka. We
don't get any advantage from it. I tell you, it's
actually how the team plays on the day. That's that's
all the advantage we can get about it. Think about
(09:01):
is playing the game of football as hard as fast
as we can, and some team's going to one team
is going to come out in the winter draw or lost.
So you know, we just got to get on with
what makes us stick. And that's because we love the
game of rugby and we introduced that to Hako into
the or Blacks many many years ago and before he
was born. So at the end of the day, unless
(09:22):
you know our culture, you shouldn't be talking about it.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And but look, let's talk about it. It's well known that
when you turned up to the All Blacks and it
took over the captain saying that unbeaten perage you went
through in the late eighties, that you revitalized the Harker.
It was getting butchered and you thought, this is something
that's really important not only to Mardy but to New
Zealand as well. We've got to change it, we've got
(09:47):
to give it some credibility. Did you ever think that
it had caused this much trouble, like thirty forty years later.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Well, I don't think it's trouble. I think it's a
part of our part of our history and part of
our culture. New Zealand's culture is our Maori culture. Now
all the other people come from overseas, but our culture
here in New Zealand is Mardi and so they is.
We've got a live with that, you know. That's that's
that's our history of this country going back, you know,
(10:15):
seven eight hundred years. And so you know, at the
end of the day, we're blended together pretty well over
the years, and you know, we're working together in a
lot of things. And at the end of the day,
it's only a game of sport that we're playing, and
so we're adding a bit of cultural sincerity towards it
on both sides, and which is basically our national anthems.
(10:37):
We do it in two languages. South America does it
in three languages. Things like that. So at the end
of the day, what are you moaning about? You know,
we actually get on with the game, and that's the
most important thing.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
What's the best way to respond to this from from
a team perspective when an opposing nation comes over here
or we're at home in there, what's acceptable what's unacceptable?
Doesn't really matter how they react.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Oh really, I just think that the English are proably
the worst at trying to change will change it, not
not much change it, but being vocalized about it, you know,
And I think that if they haven't done their homework
and their preparation for their game. You know, at the
end of the day, it's all of it is a dance,
a coupe of dance, ceremony, and it's basically it's all
(11:23):
it's out of respect for you as the opposition, and
basically out of respect for ourselves who are doing it too,
because sometimes we're in your country, sometimes you're in our country,
and so as we do it both sides, and we've
never done in a New Zealan until eighty seven, and
so we started doing it here and maybe we shouldn't
do it here. At the end of the day, it's
(11:44):
more like a welcome of respect as well. So we're
playing you, welcome to our country, good luck for you,
and you know, the luck goes both ways.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Sorry. A lot of people say that it's an act
of aggression and it's a war dance and it's a challenge.
I suppose it's what you read in Tepaja's words, because
there's a part of this that is an act of
thanks for what the tribe did that protected him. So
where where does it sit for you? Is a welcome
and challenger war dance?
Speaker 5 (12:12):
What actually is it's it's everything because it's utilized in
different ways. The hucker doesn't mean have to be come
up here the hacker come up here. Every province in
New Zealand has got their own hucker, no doubt, every well,
all the supersides have got their own hucker, but they
don't use it all the time.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
But if they have to. South Africans come here and
eight mates sure in thet couple of years, every promise
that plays them will do the hucker without without of that,
you know, And so they don't do it all the time.
But it's it's basically the hacker is like a marker
respect as well, and that's why we do it at
tongueies as well, because we respect the person who's passed
away and he gets huckered out and only only the
(12:53):
tea to get huckered out. And usually when there's somebody
in that club very you know, one of the club
members who was a great player during his day, he
got to an age and he passed away, he'd get
huckered out of the club and that's a marker. So
it's not all about dying, but where you know this
person has died and we huck other guy out because
it's you know, he's got under steve a status status,
(13:15):
So it's you know, you can take it in a
lot of ways, but we know how to use it.
They don't. They just think of the negative more than
anything else.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
You hear it from the biggest names and sports men.
Have your say on eighty Sports Talk or more on
your home of sports and news Talks, it'd.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Be it's sir Wayne Shelford, Buck Shelford. They're a man
who reinvigorated the Harker when he became the All Black
captain way back in the late eighties, primarily because it
was a shambles before he took hold of it and
he believed it disgrace marn tongue. And that's understandable if
you've seen those whole videos of the arga. She was
(13:53):
a bit messy, to say the least. So plainly he's like,
you know what, get your haircut properly, Marla and leave
ar salone. We don't want a bar of it. I
quite like this debate because you can see you go
go on. It's always the English, isn't it all the
whales showing the Scottish ever got up in arms about it.
But that's something about it that just in triggers these guys,
(14:14):
so they have a go in saying that. I really
don't mind if Joe Marlert criticizes it. I think he
should be allowed to criticize it. I don't think it's sacred.
I think it's sacrifice. It's not something that everybody else
(14:35):
has to accept with open arms. It just isn't. There's
no edict in world rugby that said you must respect this,
respond how you want at your own peril. And I
loved it when you get crowds trying to sing and
drown out the heart in South Africa marvelous. What about
that that V formation they busted out in twenty nineteen,
(14:58):
The Younger is there one. It was amazing. All the
other teams that do with the thinbe from the Fijians,
the Cividale and the and the Sip Hotel from the Tongminans,
and then the Someone's. You've got the Australians, the Aboriginals
with some of their indigenous dance actions going on too.
(15:19):
It's not unusual. It's a way of expressing the way
the team feel and it is unique, but I think
you should still be able to criticize it. Oh, you
will get laughed at and people will poke fun at
you and poke holes and you say whatever you don't like,
(15:39):
I don't watch it. And as for this gives you
an advantage thing, If it really gave the All Blacks
or the Tall Blacks, or the Ice Blacks, or the
sevens team or the Kiwi of if it really gave
(16:00):
them an advantage, they probably should have one hundred percent
record last time I checked. The All Blacks are quite
good at losing. You know. It's not some kind of
magic cloak of invincibility that can put on and run
through everybody. It's an expression of New Zealand that the
(16:20):
All Blacks have taken in hand on other teams, and
they're allowed to express it, and they do and it
gets right under the skin of people who speaks of
people like Joe Marler. So my question to you, should
he be allowed to criticize the Hager? I say, absolutely,
knock yourself out. Fact please knock yourself out to be
(16:42):
better out doing that. But I think you should be
able to. I think all traditions everything, it's fine. To
about to voice your displeasure at it, and it's how
we respond. And I'm not angry. When it came out
this morning, I was amused. It's like, really he's still
going on about this, bro? Really still Dude's laughable? Mate,
(17:08):
your point in your life, as well as any other
question around this. So I'm asking about people being allowed
to criticize the haka pregame traditions such as that, is
it overused? Is that what greats people? What time?
Speaker 6 (17:28):
It is?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Is it? We've got a number of sports that use
it and a fair game, it's up to them go
for it. I'm really interested in what triggers people around this.
I don't think it's overused, and I think Marlas should
be able to criticize it as long as he can
deal with a bit of whiplash from the players, from
the fans, from the commentators, from the Warriors on social media.
(17:55):
It's not a cloak of invincibility. Still lose seven twenty
four sports talker and news talk to eb lines or
having eight hundred and eighty ten eighty criticize all you
want doesn't bother me, and hacker until your heart's content
doesn't bother me either. They's to their own this News
Talks c B twenty four past the seven.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I need someone and I profer to take on back
to my hometastaze.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It just only it's a loon.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
The right call is your call on eight hundred and
eighty to eighty Sports Talk. Call on your home of
Sports News Talk.
Speaker 9 (18:34):
Z B.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Ain't like I can make this cord of the sun
by myself. You help me twenty seven seven Sports Talk
Care on News Talks e B oh eight one hundred
and eighty ten eighty three phone number Nation Ye text
that'll cost just down to text charge nineteen ninety two.
That is z B z B plain. They'd love to
hear your voice. Quick couple of texts and will jump
(18:59):
to Anthony Darcy Marlequin say whatever really likes. I love
the hucker, but what I don't like is the feeling
I get the hackers turning into a marketing gimmick rather
than a cultural challenge. I get that, Anthony, welcome to
the show.
Speaker 8 (19:19):
How are you good evening? So I've got nothing against
the Huker. I think it's good for business. I don't know.
I don't know if if all sports seems to the
hacker but what they should just start thinking about is
what will happen when the hacker does shut When You're
Blacks shut down and the Hucker does eventually shut down,
(19:40):
what will come after that?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
So you think if the All Blacks are playing poorly
and they're no longer relevant, that will detract from the
Harker too.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
No, I think it's good for business at the moment,
But I don't know if theory is that there will
be a one will come one day when your Blacks
won't be anymore and they won't need to use the
Harker anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, if it's not just the all Blacks, as the
hacker is not a sporting jem yesture, it's deeply rooted
in Marty. That's where it comes from. Initially, it is
this first. It's not sports first. It's a it's a
it's a it's a challenge, it's a thanks, it's a
sign of respect that it's it's a whole lot of
(20:22):
different things, and it's something that's very traditional within the
Mardi culture, which is why we see it yeah down.
Speaker 8 (20:31):
Eventually they'll shut it down and something else, a new
phenomenon will come.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, Okay, Anthony, thanks for sharing your opinion. I don't
know if you can something that's so rich and cultural
it can just be shut down, cant it? I think
that's Look again, you've got your opinion, feel free to share.
Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty. But this is
(20:57):
this is something that is attached to something different, not
just sport. Sport just cottoned onto it later on the
piece pleasant, but a quid, this is a mere Darcy,
you flogged that for all it was worth. He answered
the same question about ten times. I think you annoyed
him in the end. Thank you very much for that insight.
(21:20):
Mark appreciate it. Someone else writes, Darcy, scrap the bloody hacker.
I make the national anthem an orchestra like some other
countries do what the copy somebody else that I don't
agree with. They're doing it, so let's do it too unique?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Hey Jamie, how are you?
Speaker 10 (21:40):
Mate?
Speaker 8 (21:41):
Hey?
Speaker 10 (21:42):
That's not fear, mate, that's not feared. Are we going
to try and not let the all blecks do? The hacker?
Come on me? It's like everybody else does it, like Fiji.
Everybody does it, Mate, everybody does it. Why can't we
do it?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I don't have a problem with it myself. Here's the
extended for me, Jamie. If you don't like something, you
don't engage in it.
Speaker 10 (22:08):
Right, hang on, No, that's wrong. If we don't lost
something too bad like some does that, Fiji does it,
Toma does it, everybody does it, why can't we do it?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
No, I don't think I'm not telling anyone to stop anything.
I think it upsets and triggers people for some unknown reason.
But I'm saying, if there's something in the world that
I don't like, right, okay, I just don't don't I.
Speaker 10 (22:29):
Don't engage it. Why should an Englishman tell us we
can't do it?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Because he's getting click bait? Because you know, it really
triggers the English and I think his podcast is slipping
in numbers. So if he'd climb in there and know
that he'd cause the ruckus by doing it, that's why.
Speaker 10 (22:46):
Well, I'm not I'm happy with that. I'm not happy
with that at all, because this is our this is
our culture, right, this is our mildy culture. We should
be allowed to do what we do when we do
it like it's unwoldy cultivate, you know, you know, granted.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
But just because it's important to you, and it's important
to Mardi culture. It doesn't mean to say it's important
to other people. They're quite within their rights to criticize it, right.
Speaker 10 (23:12):
I agree, I agree, But but everybody else gets to
do it. Why can't we do it? It's just a hacker, bro,
you know, it's just a hacker. It's just a song.
It's just a buddy songs. But now we're not able
to do the song anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
No, no, no, no, no one said that, Jamie. And it's
not just a song. It's so much more complex. And
there's quite a few texts talking about saying it's award
award dance. Well, if you listened to Buck before, it's
so much more than a war dance. It's about celebration,
it's about thanks, it's about respect. They see people off
(23:55):
after they die with the hard there's not a war dance.
They're not challenging the departed to a scrap. It means
so much. It's so complex, and I think a lot
of people that they don't quite understand where it comes from.
It's all too much. So like most things in life,
if people don't understand it, they kick out against it.
(24:15):
Surprised people aren't calling it woke. Quite frankly, there's another one,
the Harker Is Award. It's not a war dance. Now
right the way back through the history and all the
obvious thing here is when hackers performed at someone's funeral,
someone's tonguey, it's not a war. It's a mark of
respect to a respected and fallen member of the community.
(24:40):
So got to understand it. And if you don't, well
maybe I know, do your own research. As they say,
Hey John, how are you?
Speaker 11 (24:50):
Hey, I'm good Man good. My little take on it
is love the Harker, totally love it. But to expect
other people to respect it and they don't understand it.
That's not the game that it's hard of anymore. And secondly,
no problem doing it before match when the opposition have
a hardkout to do in response like Tonga, Fiji Samoa. Nope,
(25:13):
that makes perfect sense. Alternatively to me, in the big
Test natures, if you're playing against a team that doesn't
have that as part of their culture, they don't understand it.
Do it at the end the way that the seventh
team does it. Once they've won a tournament. They do
the hard out after the game, that to me would
be probably the best answer going forward.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
That might play hate some people. I think people who
genuinely don't like it wouldn't want to see it at
all end or beginning.
Speaker 11 (25:42):
Yeah, but then you don't have a choice in the
beginning to miss it. Nobody wants to miss the kickoff
of the game.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Well, if you're alive the team in the game, you don't.
If you're watching it on TV, just play at the start.
There was so much about pregame.
Speaker 12 (26:00):
You tell me what the game kicks do?
Speaker 11 (26:03):
You tell me what time the game kicks off? About
the Racker set was caused in South Africa in the
Harker miss timed.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
They very very flew over the top.
Speaker 11 (26:15):
Machine and then they flew in airplane over there. An
aeroplane was was primed to be at a certain spot
at a certain time, but it happened is the old
Lats were slightly late because they were paying respect rightfully,
so so they delayed the whole process to start their
Harker just saying they have two sides to every story.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, yeah, see, John, I didn't. I had actually rewind
it and watched that afterwards because I just have it
on silent at the start. I mean normally I video
these things a video. I'm so old I don't watch them.
Later on on the piece, I mean I watched some
live stuff, but generally pregame stuff. Oh one hundred and eighty,
(27:05):
give us a call. I love to hear from your
nineteen nineteen z B z B. Later, one of the
peaks were joined by Paving Batters. She is the Indian
National Basketball League at chief executive. Talking about the inclusion
of I didn't say she, producer Andy reckons I said she,
I didn't. I No, I didn't. Anyway, he's the man
(27:30):
behind that. He's the man behind the Indian Panthers into
the New Zealand Basketball League. This is news Talk B
seven thirty six. But I did not say, she setting
(27:55):
that thirty nine Sports Dog one News Talks eb A text. No,
it's a water. No it's not. It's a number of things.
That's many things. So go away, Hi, Tony, how are you.
Speaker 12 (28:06):
Good evening? I enjoyed your interview, and I learned quite
a bit from Sir buck Shelford. But the only question
I hit was and when I watched the Harker sometimes
I do that gesture where they sort of make out
the sort of putting their hand across their throat. I
would have been interested to see what he would have
said that actually meant, because you know, some people, including me,
(28:27):
would take it a bit that they sort of want
to sit the opposition's throat, which is obviously probably not right.
But I just wondered, because sometimes, you know, that's the
only part of it that I sort of I find
a bit sore, we say, being China, but confusing as
to what that gesture means. Perhaps you could shed some light.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
On Yeah, Tony, I know what you mean, because when
that hacker was first performed solely for the All Blacks,
that was explained away as being drawn the breath of
life upward. Oh okay, that's what has explained, and they
change that. They modified the movement for that so people
weren't so triggered by it. But I've noticed in recent
(29:06):
times more and more the players are making that elaborate
right across the neck, and I'm like, wow, it's supposed
to be coming up. It's supposed to be that, and
that does to me seem a tad on the unnecessarily
aggressive side.
Speaker 12 (29:22):
So Tony, but I just wondered, if you if you
if you're so shamed we didn't you didn't sort of
maybe you said Mucket have shed a bit of more
light on that, But that's I like watching the hark it.
Don't get me wrong, I either say I was interested
to learn a lot from this interview. Explained it really well,
but that's the only thing that really concerns me about it,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
No, right, so, Tony, I still flinch that coming. You
don't really need to do that. Can you maybe just
lift it? Because it was Aldy save in all sorts
of trouble for really overstating that. And I think taking
away from the meaning of it and turning it into
an act of out and out aggression probably not ideal.
Hey Kristin, how are you?
Speaker 9 (29:59):
Ah? Hello? It's not the rugby game kind of a
b aggressive. But anyway, apart from that, I adore Henew Mohi,
who sang the New Zealand anthem in Terreal as.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Well all those years ago. Of course the right ruckers,
I know the.
Speaker 9 (30:30):
Words and yeah, and she is absolutely strong and beautiful
and I've got both her albums and on album on
Oceana on Chanya track two Kotahi Tanga, which means union
(30:58):
and that as such an inspiring moving song.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
An amazing ability to do that Dales and to draw
so much emotion. Forth get you, Kristen. Thanks for your call, Yarn, Hi, Hey,
how's it going well? It's going forward. It's all about
go forward in this industry, isn't it?
Speaker 7 (31:20):
Yearn Absolutely absolutely. I just want to weigh in about
this Hardker check and yeah, look I enjoyed the hark
as much as the other guy, and I agree with
one of the other callers. You know, when you've got
two New Zealand and the Pacific nations, you know, once
team will put the challenge, then the other one would
(31:41):
accept by doing the version of the hard Cup. But
for all the other teams you need to just stand
there and take it. And for me, that's where, you know,
I don't find that entertaining.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I wonder yan about that when it comes to how
they're supposed to respond, and I think that's better respond
exactly how they want. They turn their backs, they ignore it,
they do the flying v the crowd drowned out with
their song. I don't think it needs to be wholly
respected by everybody at all. Let them do their business,
but don't onto them, and that's problematic.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
Yeah, the expectation is that teams standy and kind of
take it. That is how how they respect the harker
from from I understand from when teams or players have reacted,
somebody might have grinned or or whatever, and then they
would be ridiculed for being disrespectful. Now I don't remember
nineteen ninety five World Cup Final and Quivers Visa Joona
(32:38):
Alma right at the end, walked up to each other,
looked at each other in the eyes. I think the
lasers might have touched you know that kind of thing.
It brings a bit of emotion, a bit of excitement
to it. I don't want to see the ark had
not being performed, but I would like them to. And
this comes from World Rude if I understanding right, they
need to have a look at that and allow teams
(33:00):
to find a way to to to react. Otherwise you
get the crowd stuffed reacting like you test earlier this
year at our spark with a crowd reacted, and then
that's also going us that's disrespectful, which maybe it was.
But yeah, I like Jaka. I don't think Joe Marla
has got an idea of what he's saying in any
(33:21):
way half the time. But but yeah, blood heats on
the head.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know, you leave props alone. Not that I've ever
been in the front row. Hey, thanks very much for
your import most appreciated. I had eighty This is news
talking to be on sports all that is quarter to eight.
Good show tonight, writes Jay, A brave topic, got a
new for introducing opinions from both sides. Respect is always
(33:51):
interesting to me. I don't think you can force respect
on anybody, and you should not be able to force
respect on anybody. Something that is earned, and it's not
up to you to determine what other people think of
what you do. Hukka, brilliant, spine chilling, incredible. We've got
(34:14):
all sorts of different teams and sports teams to do it,
and it is a state of pride when they do it,
just because it's something you're proud of and you work
for and it's part of your heritage. Doesn't mean to
say that the guy the girl on the other side
of the white line has to respect you. I don't.
It's crazy trying to push that on people. Do it
(34:36):
for yourself, and do it for them and Joe get
a haircut first coming from me exally, I'm due and
you mullets, what do you reckon tomorrow? Yeah, here comes
Carl Coming up next on News Talks there Be, we're
going to talk Indian basketball in New Zealand having butterish.
(35:01):
He joins us next to talk about where it came from,
why it's here. That's coming up shortly on he talks
nine Joy the Harker is better than stealing a slave
(35:23):
revolt song like swing Low Sweet Chiliot Charry. I don't
know where they got that from. Where's the relevance? There?
A sind the arts content. It's all good. That's this
News Talks there Be. Today it was announced that there
will be two Indian expansion teams involved in Cells NBL,
the men's version to either woman's version. They are Indian based, well,
(35:44):
they're actually going to be based in South Auckland a probe.
Predominantly they are from India. The name is the Indian Panthers.
And we're joined now by a man who is behind
this expansion side. His name is Paven Butts. It joins
us now, Paven, good day to you.
Speaker 13 (36:05):
Sir, day to you too. I'm very good thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Huge news today that there is going to be the
Indian Panthers involved in our very owner NBL, both men
and women, tapping into what would expect. There's what's hardly
the smallest market in the world, is it.
Speaker 13 (36:24):
No, it's it's fairly big, but it's a it's a
it's a great opportunity for Indian players. To be honest
with you, if I give you a little bit of
background on the way that basketball is played in India,
you'll you'll understand why. You know, it's a popular sport,
but you know, nothing like cricket. You'll find a basketball
hoop in practically every score that you that you would visit.
(36:47):
The issues become as you get older that there's no
real pathways, you know, once you leave university, so people
end up playing, you know, kind of local basketball or statewide.
There's no real professional sports when it comes to basketball.
If you're very good, then you make it offered a
job with an institution like the railways or the army
(37:08):
or Navy, which is kind of your pathway to staying
within the sport because they allow you the opportunity to play,
especially if you play for the national team and so on.
So there's no real professionals, so this is a great
opportunity to open up a different pathway for some players
by bringing them over here and actually playing in a
(37:29):
home and away league, which you know they're not used to.
They're very much used to tournament play, which you may
last eight to ten days, you play a game every day,
but doesn't really help with your development in the way
that we're used to. So it's a great opportunity to
bring those players play in this league, but also to
play with international players. So you know, we'll supplement the
(37:53):
team with players from New Zealand or from Australia or
from the US, you know, your traditional imports, and give
them that opportunity to play with and against good quality
players and hopefully improve their skills.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I wouldn't say that Indian basketball is a hot bat.
I don't think many people would have heard of it.
But how big are we talking? How many people engage
at that lower level because there's no professional route for them?
And whereabouts? Is that the main focus? India is a
big place. Is it all over the shop puving.
Speaker 13 (38:25):
Or yeah, look at you know, the sport is played
across every state. Obviously there's some where it's more popular
than others. So you know, the national competition involves all
if I remember correctly, the all twenty eight states that play.
It's difficult to gauge the popularity because there's no real
(38:45):
numbers that we can refer back to. You know, there's
not the registration in the way that we might we
might see it. They play at at state level competitions
or even local level competition. There's lots of tournaments that
pop up three on three tournaments or four five on
five tournaments. So the sport is popular and it's you know,
(39:06):
there's a there's a following for the sport and people
know each other in the sport. The opportunity we have
is is really to encourage more people to play because
they start to see a pathway outside of just India.
And bearing in mind that you've got two types of audiences.
You've got, you know, one group of people who already
(39:27):
know about the sport and follow you know, things like
the NBA and in fact follow the New Zealand MBL
on feb And then you've got another group of people
who are interested in playing. And our job is to
is to is to try and bring those two groups
together by giving them an opportunity to watch, you know,
a league where there's actually Indian players involved in that league,
(39:48):
not just the one off who may make it to
the NBA, NBA or or whatever.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Geese. He's the Indian Panthers CEO. So how does this
come about?
Speaker 13 (39:58):
That's an interesting story. So we've been running some initiatives
in India for for about three and a half years now,
and I actually rank just who's well known as an innovator,
and to pick his brain on things like the Rapid
League and so on. And that short conversation turned into
I think an hour's conversation with potential opportunities for running
(40:21):
a you know, an Indian player's based team in you know,
well we didn't know at the time where it would be.
And that conversation progressed very rapidly into an MU and
then we signed the agreement a few weeks back, so
that all of that took probably about five or six
months if that, So it was very quick. But you know,
(40:42):
like minded people make things happen, and it was you know,
all down to him and him asking me questions and
probing and next thing we knew, Yeah, we had an
MoU and here we are.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Doesn't surprise me at all from what I know of
Justin Neilson. I mean, well, what about money involved here?
How expensive is this going to be? Where's the funding
coming from? Because at the base of it, you can't
get behind a sporting team if you haven't got any dollars.
Speaker 13 (41:07):
Indeed, look, obviously our cost will be slightly higher because
we'll be bringing players in from India and we'll have
to house them and so on for five months and
then for three months with the women. So yeah, it's
going to be it's going to be a little bit different.
We're no different to any other franchise. You know, we'll
be looking at sponsors, We'll be looking to our investors
(41:28):
and so on to provide that that income. And as
we get the opportunity to grow into India, we think
that it will become commercially more and more viable for
us into into the future. So you know, we're not
expecting to be making millions of dollars after the first
year or two, but it's a long term project and
we'll see, you know, who we can we can get involved.
(41:51):
There's a big Indian community here and the one thing
about you know, like most people from You know that
that go and live in a different country, is that
they like to hold onto connections back to their country.
We're no different. I'm the same, and I think giving
the Indian community here that opportunity to have some links
back is going to hopefully draw people to come and
(42:13):
watch the games, but also sponsors and help us fund
what we're what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
No need for the TMO. We've got the breakdown on
Sports Talk call.
Speaker 10 (42:25):
News Talks.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I was paving, but one of the main behind the
Indian side, well two of them to come on to
sales NBO and Toehi Basketball next season. It takes me,
is this a race based team? This coach and it Steve,
it's a it's a it's a country based team that
from India.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
Wow Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Thanks hading Up for producing the program, Thanks to all
the quarters, Thanks for Texas, thanks for your ears and
ownsing Water Grave becking in tomorrow on newshe TB.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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