October 30, 2024 • 8 mins
All Blacks great Sir Buck Shelford has lambasted Joe Marler's comments about binning the haka.
The outspoken England prop -- who's sidelined with a foot injury -- labelled the pre-match tradition 'ridiculous' on social media, adding it's only any good when teams front it with some sort of reply.
But Shelford says the All Blacks don't get any advantages from it, and that's no excuse for losing to them.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talks Be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We're join now on the program by Buck Shelford, or
Sir Wayne Shelford, as is otherwise known Buck. Welcome to
the program. I trust you. Well, well yeah, great to
have you on. But here we go again. Joe Marler
fanning the flames if you will, suggesting that the Harker
the pre match tradition is ridiculous and it needs to
(00:33):
be been. You can almost set your wats to it,
couldn't it. The complaints coming out of the Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, well, you know if he thinks that that it's
ridiculous that we're doing AKA, well his hair gout is
a ridiculous body eco for his age too. You know,
what do you suggested?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
What do they do? Because this is something that's becoming
more and more prevalent globally in Rugby. I mean you
look at the Cippy town and the ceviytown, the Timby
in the Quarter Country.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We've got cultures. We've got cultures down here in Polynesia,
Pacific Island, all the Pland's got their own culture and
basically we should explore it, which we have for the
last hundred years we've used it and basically, why should
we take it away?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
What's the reaction like globally in your experience? And I'm
not at home because we know how much we love
it here, but that overseas is that embrace and accept it?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yes, I believe it is. Over in Japan, America, Canada,
they love it. They love it because you know, they're
not competitive competitors with us at the moment, you know,
but down the line in you know, twenty thirty years,
they might be, and they love it. I think it's
only the home nations that don't tend to enjoy it.
You know. The Welsh give us a bit of JP
(01:43):
on it, you know, the Irish as well. You know,
the Home nations give us that gyp. But everywhere around
the rest of the world they love it. You know.
That's because they that we're showing the part of our culture.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Part of the fallback from people so well, no one
else really gets to do it. Why do you get
this advantage that's patently unfair. So besides their haircut, of
maould respond.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
To that at the end of the day, it's not actually,
it's not something that actually unless you look at the
negative of it. They're looking at a negative and saying, oh,
they get an extra bit of advantage by doing it.
We get no advantage. Whatso, if you haven't done your
homework on the orbles, don't say anything and it's your problem.
(02:25):
Don't use that as an excuse for you losing all
the time to our team and something. As you know,
we're as good as you. Guys are as good as
us on your day and you can beat us at
any time. It's not about the hocker. It's about how
you play rugby, So just get on and play rugby.
Leave the other stuff alone. And basically we're there to
show part of New Zealand off which is our hacker,
(02:45):
and all of our teams have it. All the Polynesian
teams have it as well, So I think that it's brilliant.
It's a great add on to the whole ceremony of
when you do basically hear your national anthems. It's just
to follow on from there. And so you know, we've
only just comeing too, you know, the the years twenty
(03:07):
thirty years now we've been doing the national anthem and
they don't say anything about that.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, you mean, as in the todayal version of the
national anthem. Yeah, no, one seems to worry too mate.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Initially, initially back in the day, the young lady who'd
done it day basically she's reprimanded for it. And this
is from our own country, and so I think is
we've got to get with it. You know, we're actually here.
We're never going to leave this place, and this is
part of our culture. If you don't like it, go
back to where you come from.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Buck's helf for joining the program. But I'm sure that
he's not doing his teammates any favor by coming out
and saying this. I don't think it helps their cause
at all. Does it give more strength to the arm
of the New Zealanders when someone openly criticizes something.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Like this, No, I don't think so. Our guys are
over it. You know that you get you know, you
get criticized in the year if somebody criticizes it. And
thing is, But what do you think we get out
of it? It's just it's just the hakka. We don't
get any advantage from it. I tell you, it's actually
how the team played on the day. That's all the
advantage we can get about it. Think about as playing
(04:13):
the game of football as hard as fast as we can,
and some team's going to one team's going to come
out in the water, draw or lost. So you know, we'
just got to get on with what makes us stick,
and that's because we love the game of rugby. And
we introduced that hakker into the or Blacks many many
years ago and before he was born. So at the
end of the day, unless you know our culture, you
(04:34):
shouldn't be talking about it.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And by look, let's talk about it. It's well known that
when you turned up to the All Blacks and took
over the captain saying that unbeaten perryge you went through
in the late eighties, that you revitalized the Harker. It
was getting butchered and you thought, this is something that's
really important not only to Mardy but to New Zealand
as well. We've got to change it, we've got to
(04:58):
give it some credibility. Did you ever think that it
had caused this much trouble, like thirty forty years later.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I don't think it's trouble. I think it's a part
of our part of our history and part of our culture.
New Zealand's culture is our Mali culture. Now all the
other people come from overseas, but our culture here in
New Zealand is Mardi and so thing is we've got
to live with that, you know. That's that's our history
of this country going back, you know, seven eight hundred years.
(05:27):
And so you know, at the end of the day,
we're blended together pretty well over the years, and you know,
we're working together in a lot of things. And at
the end of the day, it's only a game of
sport that we're playing, and so we're adding a bit
of cultural sincerity towards it on both sides, and which
is basically our national anthems. We do it in two languages.
(05:49):
South America does it in three languages. Things like that.
So at the end of the day, what are you
moaning about? You know, we actually get on with the game,
and that's the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
What's the best way to respond to this from from
a team perspective? When an opposing nation comes over here
or we're at home in there, what's acceptable what's unacceptable?
Doesn't really matter how they react.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Oh oh really, I just think that the English are
probably the worst that trying to change it will change it,
not not much change it, but being vocalized about it,
you know, and I think that if they haven't done
their homework and their preparation for their game. You know,
at the end of the day, it's all of us.
Is the dance a coupe of dance ceremony, and it's
(06:33):
basically it's all it's out of respect for you as
the opposition, and basically out of respect for ourselves who
are doing it too, because sometimes we're in your country,
sometimes you're in our country, and so as we do
it both sides. And we've never done in New Zealan
until eighty seven, and so we started doing it here
and maybe we shouldn't do it here. At the end
(06:54):
of the day, it's more like a welcome of respect
as well. So we're playing you, welcome to our country,
good luck for here, and you know, the luck goes
both ways. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
When a lot of people say that it's an act
of aggression and it's a war dance and it's a challenge,
I suppose it's what you read into the Operaha's words,
because there's a part of this that is an act
of thanks for what the tribe did that protected him.
So where where does it sit for you is a
welcome and challenge, a war dance. What actually is.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's it's everything because it's utilized in different ways. The
hucker doesn't mean have to be come up here, the
hacker come up here. Every province in New Zealand it's
got their own hucker, no doubt. Every well, all the
supersides have got their own hucker, but they don't use
it all the time. But if they, you know, have
the South Africans come here and eight mates, sure in
the next couple of years, every promise that plays will
(07:46):
do the hucker without without of that, you know, And
so they don't do it all the time. But it's
it's basically the hacker is like a marker respect as well,
and that's why we do it at Tongue. He is
as well because we expect the person who's passed away
and he gets huckered out and only only the tea
to get huckered out. And usually when as somebody in
(08:07):
that club very you know, one of the club members
who was a great player during his day, he got
to an age and he passed away, he'd get hucked
out of the club. And that's a market respect. So
it's not all about dying, but where you know, this
person has died and we huck on the guy out
because it's you know, he's an uner Steve a status status,
so it's you know, you can take it in a
(08:28):
lot of ways, but we know how to use it.
They don't. They just think of the negative more than
anything else.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays. Well follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talks Be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We're join now on the program by Buck Shelford, or
Sir Wayne Shelford, as is otherwise known Buck. Welcome to
the program. I trust you. Well, well yeah, great to
have you on. But here we go again. Joe Marler
fanning the flames if you will, suggesting that the Harker
the pre match tradition is ridiculous and it needs to
(00:33):
be been. You can almost set your wats to it,
couldn't it. The complaints coming out of the Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, well, you know if he thinks that that it's
ridiculous that we're doing AKA, well his hair gout is
a ridiculous body eco for his age too. You know,
what do you suggested?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
What do they do? Because this is something that's becoming
more and more prevalent globally in Rugby. I mean you
look at the Cippy town and the ceviytown, the Timby
in the Quarter Country.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We've got cultures. We've got cultures down here in Polynesia,
Pacific Island, all the Pland's got their own culture and
basically we should explore it, which we have for the
last hundred years we've used it and basically, why should
we take it away?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
What's the reaction like globally in your experience? And I'm
not at home because we know how much we love
it here, but that overseas is that embrace and accept it?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yes, I believe it is. Over in Japan, America, Canada,
they love it. They love it because you know, they're
not competitive competitors with us at the moment, you know,
but down the line in you know, twenty thirty years,
they might be, and they love it. I think it's
only the home nations that don't tend to enjoy it.
You know. The Welsh give us a bit of JP
(01:43):
on it, you know, the Irish as well. You know,
the Home nations give us that gyp. But everywhere around
the rest of the world they love it. You know.
That's because they that we're showing the part of our culture.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Part of the fallback from people so well, no one
else really gets to do it. Why do you get
this advantage that's patently unfair. So besides their haircut, of
maould respond.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
To that at the end of the day, it's not actually,
it's not something that actually unless you look at the
negative of it. They're looking at a negative and saying, oh,
they get an extra bit of advantage by doing it.
We get no advantage. Whatso, if you haven't done your
homework on the orbles, don't say anything and it's your problem.
(02:25):
Don't use that as an excuse for you losing all
the time to our team and something. As you know,
we're as good as you. Guys are as good as
us on your day and you can beat us at
any time. It's not about the hocker. It's about how
you play rugby, So just get on and play rugby.
Leave the other stuff alone. And basically we're there to
show part of New Zealand off which is our hacker,
(02:45):
and all of our teams have it. All the Polynesian
teams have it as well, So I think that it's brilliant.
It's a great add on to the whole ceremony of
when you do basically hear your national anthems. It's just
to follow on from there. And so you know, we've
only just comeing too, you know, the the years twenty
(03:07):
thirty years now we've been doing the national anthem and
they don't say anything about that.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, you mean, as in the todayal version of the
national anthem. Yeah, no, one seems to worry too mate.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Initially, initially back in the day, the young lady who'd
done it day basically she's reprimanded for it. And this
is from our own country, and so I think is
we've got to get with it. You know, we're actually here.
We're never going to leave this place, and this is
part of our culture. If you don't like it, go
back to where you come from.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Buck's helf for joining the program. But I'm sure that
he's not doing his teammates any favor by coming out
and saying this. I don't think it helps their cause
at all. Does it give more strength to the arm
of the New Zealanders when someone openly criticizes something.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Like this, No, I don't think so. Our guys are
over it. You know that you get you know, you
get criticized in the year if somebody criticizes it. And
thing is, But what do you think we get out
of it? It's just it's just the hakka. We don't
get any advantage from it. I tell you, it's actually
how the team played on the day. That's all the
advantage we can get about it. Think about as playing
(04:13):
the game of football as hard as fast as we can,
and some team's going to one team's going to come
out in the water, draw or lost. So you know, we'
just got to get on with what makes us stick,
and that's because we love the game of rugby. And
we introduced that hakker into the or Blacks many many
years ago and before he was born. So at the
end of the day, unless you know our culture, you
(04:34):
shouldn't be talking about it.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And by look, let's talk about it. It's well known that
when you turned up to the All Blacks and took
over the captain saying that unbeaten perryge you went through
in the late eighties, that you revitalized the Harker. It
was getting butchered and you thought, this is something that's
really important not only to Mardy but to New Zealand
as well. We've got to change it, we've got to
(04:58):
give it some credibility. Did you ever think that it
had caused this much trouble, like thirty forty years later.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I don't think it's trouble. I think it's a part
of our part of our history and part of our culture.
New Zealand's culture is our Mali culture. Now all the
other people come from overseas, but our culture here in
New Zealand is Mardi and so thing is we've got
to live with that, you know. That's that's our history
of this country going back, you know, seven eight hundred years.
(05:27):
And so you know, at the end of the day,
we're blended together pretty well over the years, and you know,
we're working together in a lot of things. And at
the end of the day, it's only a game of
sport that we're playing, and so we're adding a bit
of cultural sincerity towards it on both sides, and which
is basically our national anthems. We do it in two languages.
(05:49):
South America does it in three languages. Things like that.
So at the end of the day, what are you
moaning about? You know, we actually get on with the game,
and that's the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
What's the best way to respond to this from from
a team perspective? When an opposing nation comes over here
or we're at home in there, what's acceptable what's unacceptable?
Doesn't really matter how they react.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Oh oh really, I just think that the English are
probably the worst that trying to change it will change it,
not not much change it, but being vocalized about it,
you know, and I think that if they haven't done
their homework and their preparation for their game. You know,
at the end of the day, it's all of us.
Is the dance a coupe of dance ceremony, and it's
(06:33):
basically it's all it's out of respect for you as
the opposition, and basically out of respect for ourselves who
are doing it too, because sometimes we're in your country,
sometimes you're in our country, and so as we do
it both sides. And we've never done in New Zealan
until eighty seven, and so we started doing it here
and maybe we shouldn't do it here. At the end
(06:54):
of the day, it's more like a welcome of respect
as well. So we're playing you, welcome to our country,
good luck for here, and you know, the luck goes
both ways. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
When a lot of people say that it's an act
of aggression and it's a war dance and it's a challenge,
I suppose it's what you read into the Operaha's words,
because there's a part of this that is an act
of thanks for what the tribe did that protected him.
So where where does it sit for you is a
welcome and challenge, a war dance. What actually is.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's it's everything because it's utilized in different ways. The
hucker doesn't mean have to be come up here, the
hacker come up here. Every province in New Zealand it's
got their own hucker, no doubt. Every well, all the
supersides have got their own hucker, but they don't use
it all the time. But if they, you know, have
the South Africans come here and eight mates, sure in
the next couple of years, every promise that plays will
(07:46):
do the hucker without without of that, you know, And
so they don't do it all the time. But it's
it's basically the hacker is like a marker respect as well,
and that's why we do it at Tongue. He is
as well because we expect the person who's passed away
and he gets huckered out and only only the tea
to get huckered out. And usually when as somebody in
(08:07):
that club very you know, one of the club members
who was a great player during his day, he got
to an age and he passed away, he'd get hucked
out of the club. And that's a market respect. So
it's not all about dying, but where you know, this
person has died and we huck on the guy out
because it's you know, he's an uner Steve a status status,
so it's you know, you can take it in a
(08:28):
lot of ways, but we know how to use it.
They don't. They just think of the negative more than
anything else.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays. Well follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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