November 1, 2024 • 8 mins
Ethan de Groot has been left out of the All Blacks side to play England at Twickenham on Sunday for failing to uphold team standards.
The first-choice loosehead prop misses the 23 due to an unspecified breach – Tamaiti Williams starts in his place.
Wallace Sititi, Sam Cane and Mark Tele’a start again after the victory over Japan in Yokohama - Beauden Barrett will play at first-five.
Former All Blacks Captain Reuben Thorne joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to preview the test.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News talks Be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We're joined out now by a former All Black captain,
Ruben Thorn, as we take a look at the upcoming
Test match at Twickenham. Ruben, welcome, good evening, I trust you.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well, yes, I'm very well, Dust you think you Let's.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Look forward to Twickenham. Is there a mightier place to
play rugby? You might say Newland's, you might say Joe Berg,
But Twickenham. That is a venue, is it not?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, No, it is. It's it's very special. It's the
National Stadium and there's a lot of history there and
it's quite it's a little bit different from other grounds,
particularly the changing rooms and all the history that surrounds
it makes it pretty special to play it.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
When you first walk out there on to the turf,
when you first get there, knowing the history, how do
you not cope with that? But how do you balance that?
Because that'd be wouldn't say emotional, but quite overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'd suggest. Yeah, it's a noisy place because I mean
the famous crowds and a lot of the European crowds.
They tend to sing and chant and do a lot
of that, and there's a real buzz around the ground
when it's full. But I think most players just try
and feed off that energy and it's pretty exciting to
be part of the.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Winning and the losing of the game. Where does it sit?
I know you're going to say Fords, because it always does,
But if you could expand maybe a wee bit on
that what has to happen for either side to maybe
get the upper hand and maybe reach toward victory.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I mean, looking at the four packs that, particularly the
Type fives, there's a lot of experience on both sides there,
particularly up front, so I think that's going to be
a real type battle. But if we can get an
ide there and we can dominate the lineouts with harding
scrums and at the breakdown, then I think our backs
will have a bit more firepower. So I think you
did right. It's always upfront where it starts and ends,
(01:46):
and as a former Ford of course I think that.
But you know that type five battle is going to
be huge, and I think if we get an edge
there then our backs will be They'll just have a
bit too much firepower.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Rubin Thorn join us from All Black Skipper all black
to boot. Looking ahead to the twicken And Test match,
let's look at the loose forwards where you used to
It's been fascinating to see that Sam came has not
only been re selected, but he's back on the Northern Tour.
He's got the seven jump on his back and he's
(02:16):
flanked by a couple of outstanding players. We know how
good Ardies Harvey is this what a Stiti character. He's
got a lot about him. What do you make of
that six seven eight combination room?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, well, I think at the start of the year
most people would have expected Sam would have been you know,
perhaps on the outer he is moving on. We all
know that he's had his time and maybe people expected
to raise blood some new players in that position, but
he's just played really well. He's been super solid. He's
obviously still a big influence around the team, a good
positive influence on and off the field. So it just
(02:48):
shows that they do value his presence there and his
performance is a warranted selection. So yeah, you can't argue
with that. Satiti. Yeah outstanding. I mean, he really came
out at the end of Super Rugby and he's he's
one of those guys who's been able to carry that
form and that influence through into test match rugby, which
is really good for a young like that. So yeah,
it's a good mix. You know, they are playing well
(03:10):
complimentary skills in quite a dynamic threesome.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Really, I'm interested in ribbing your thoughts around Sam's place. Look,
he deserves it. Yes, he's playing particularly well. We know
that Scott Robinson's having a love feel with his shoulder.
That's fantastic. But surely in a tour like this, don't
you start blooding in the next generation. Is this maybe
counterproductive having him there?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Well you could argue that, but he still wants to
win test matches and I'm sure there are other games
on this tour where they might make some changes and
try some stuff, but you know they want to start
the tour. Well, they want to start. You know, this
is arguably the strongest team they can put out at
the moment, So they're going to put that market down
first and then I guess depending on results and injuries,
(03:54):
we'll see how the guys get their opportunities along the way.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Ruben Thorn, we've got a situation with Vain has had
time in the Jersey and he's really established and grown.
Cortez is another one. He gets the nod to start
cam Royguard only fresh coming back, but no TJ Pelnara,
Filly Christy's gone by the wayside. This has been quite
the explosion, hasn't it. What a rise and rise for
(04:17):
mister m What do you make of his contribution to
the side in that nine Jersey.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Well, I like the way he plays, you know, he's
he's a strong half back. He's playing really well. You
know again he's he's sort of earned that spot and
I like it. I like the combination. I think he's
obviously looking at the future in that area and he's
put his hand up so he's been slepted there and
deservedly so a little bit surprised not to see TJ
in the mix somewhere, but then again cam Royguard is
(04:47):
again and not to the future, and someone who is
working his way back in and you know, he's a
player who can make a real difference off the bench,
So you know, I like it. I think it's exciting
to see those guys there and the Sleepers showing faith
in them.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Oh, how we're going to replace Aaron Smith. Oh, it's
the end of the world, hold my bed bad, two
guys straight and to play. What do you make of
Boden bart coming in at ten, that combination of nine
and ten and of course Demat coming off the bench later.
Is that the balance you think will work against this
English site?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah? Well, I mean, Damien's had plenty of opportunities at ten,
and I guess they're saying, well, look, whether they're not
quite satisfied here or not, it's hard hard to know
without hearing the coaches talk about it. But Boden's just
got the experience and he's been there, he's done that.
He can handle the big occasions. We know he's a
big occasion player, so they want to see him and
that cauldron have taken them and give him the opportunity.
(05:38):
So yeah, you know, for me, either one of them
could have got it, but I think they've just said, look,
Damien's had some opportunities, but we want to give Boden
this one.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Put your coach hat on, put your captain had on,
put your player's hat on. Who do you want in
that jersey? Is it Boden or is it d Matt
guy in front of it?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
For us? Reuben, look for me right at the moment,
I would probably lean towards Boden just because he's got
the experience. You still need a strong leader in that
teen jersey and Damian I think he's a brilliant play
don't get me wrong, But I just don't know if
Tens's best position. I think he's probably more valuable either
at fallback or as anig player off the bench.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Don't think you're on in that one, Reuben Thorn. We're
going to finish things off shortly. But before we do that,
your old teammate Rasor Robertson you play with them? Why
crusades to play with them? Canterbury? Do you play from
all blacks as well? I mean, you guys know each other.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
He's had an interesting year. How do you think he's
handling the demands and the rigor and the balance of
being an all black coach, a job he's always chaerised.
It's been a big year for him.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, Look, there's no doubt it's been a big learning curve,
I would imagine. But you've got to remember that this
group of coaches and even the players, it's probably gone
through the biggest change around, you know, in twenty thirty years.
I don't know. It's been almost a complete change from
the manager through that whole coaching group and certainly some
very senior experienced players that have also left. So it's
(06:58):
been a big change for them and they're navigating their
way through it, you know, And I think no Razors
would have been. He's been learning a lot through this,
I guess, just the extra challenges of test matches compared
to Super Rugby. It is a different environment. There's so
much more scrutiny, no second chances if you looked purely
at results. There's been a couple that have got away
on them, But overall, I think he's building a group there,
(07:18):
and he's building a coaching group and a management group
as well at the same time. So you know, I
think they will they will take a lot out of
the season and be all the stronger for it.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
You know him reasonably well, you'd know that tells you know,
how reacts. Have you seen anything in the way he's
reacted that have suggested that's hit him harder tour or
is it just a case of that's Razor doing what
Razor does and he's adjusting as it goes along.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, he's pretty strong in his convictions and the way
he wants to play and get things done and do things,
so he'll stick to his guns. Look, he's no doubt
there's been a bit of pressure on him, but you know,
I don't see any obvious signs that he's struggling with it.
It's just natural that there is more pressure and more
expectation and it's a bit tighter at the top when
you're in that hot seat. So I think after this
(08:04):
season he'll reflect on it and there'll be a lot
of learnings, a lot of growth for personally around how
to manage and all that group, how to bring them
together and how to get the best out of those players.
That there's quite a few guys in there who hasn't
coached before. So the more time they' s been together,
the more they work together, I think the smoothest things
will become.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Let's finish it off with a very predictable end with
the prediction who wins how much by.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I think just looking at the teams on paper, I
think they're a Blacks. If they get this set piece right,
I think they'll win. I'll say twelve and over.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I like that confidence. Let's hope they don't see the
bed cheats in the last twenty minutes. That's how big thing.
Ruben Thorn, thank you so much as always for joining
us here on news Talk ZB mate you enjoy your weekend.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Thanks Artie Kiss.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
For more from sports talk, listen live to News Talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News talks Be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We're joined out now by a former All Black captain,
Ruben Thorn, as we take a look at the upcoming
Test match at Twickenham. Ruben, welcome, good evening, I trust you.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well, yes, I'm very well, Dust you think you Let's.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Look forward to Twickenham. Is there a mightier place to
play rugby? You might say Newland's, you might say Joe Berg,
But Twickenham. That is a venue, is it not?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, No, it is. It's it's very special. It's the
National Stadium and there's a lot of history there and
it's quite it's a little bit different from other grounds,
particularly the changing rooms and all the history that surrounds
it makes it pretty special to play it.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
When you first walk out there on to the turf,
when you first get there, knowing the history, how do
you not cope with that? But how do you balance that?
Because that'd be wouldn't say emotional, but quite overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'd suggest. Yeah, it's a noisy place because I mean
the famous crowds and a lot of the European crowds.
They tend to sing and chant and do a lot
of that, and there's a real buzz around the ground
when it's full. But I think most players just try
and feed off that energy and it's pretty exciting to
be part of the.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Winning and the losing of the game. Where does it sit?
I know you're going to say Fords, because it always does,
But if you could expand maybe a wee bit on
that what has to happen for either side to maybe
get the upper hand and maybe reach toward victory.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I mean, looking at the four packs that, particularly the
Type fives, there's a lot of experience on both sides there,
particularly up front, so I think that's going to be
a real type battle. But if we can get an
ide there and we can dominate the lineouts with harding
scrums and at the breakdown, then I think our backs
will have a bit more firepower. So I think you
did right. It's always upfront where it starts and ends,
(01:46):
and as a former Ford of course I think that.
But you know that type five battle is going to
be huge, and I think if we get an edge
there then our backs will be They'll just have a
bit too much firepower.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Rubin Thorn join us from All Black Skipper all black
to boot. Looking ahead to the twicken And Test match,
let's look at the loose forwards where you used to
It's been fascinating to see that Sam came has not
only been re selected, but he's back on the Northern Tour.
He's got the seven jump on his back and he's
(02:16):
flanked by a couple of outstanding players. We know how
good Ardies Harvey is this what a Stiti character. He's
got a lot about him. What do you make of
that six seven eight combination room?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, well, I think at the start of the year
most people would have expected Sam would have been you know,
perhaps on the outer he is moving on. We all
know that he's had his time and maybe people expected
to raise blood some new players in that position, but
he's just played really well. He's been super solid. He's
obviously still a big influence around the team, a good
positive influence on and off the field. So it just
(02:48):
shows that they do value his presence there and his
performance is a warranted selection. So yeah, you can't argue
with that. Satiti. Yeah outstanding. I mean, he really came
out at the end of Super Rugby and he's he's
one of those guys who's been able to carry that
form and that influence through into test match rugby, which
is really good for a young like that. So yeah,
it's a good mix. You know, they are playing well
(03:10):
complimentary skills in quite a dynamic threesome.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Really, I'm interested in ribbing your thoughts around Sam's place. Look,
he deserves it. Yes, he's playing particularly well. We know
that Scott Robinson's having a love feel with his shoulder.
That's fantastic. But surely in a tour like this, don't
you start blooding in the next generation. Is this maybe
counterproductive having him there?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Well you could argue that, but he still wants to
win test matches and I'm sure there are other games
on this tour where they might make some changes and
try some stuff, but you know they want to start
the tour. Well, they want to start. You know, this
is arguably the strongest team they can put out at
the moment, So they're going to put that market down
first and then I guess depending on results and injuries,
(03:54):
we'll see how the guys get their opportunities along the way.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Ruben Thorn, we've got a situation with Vain has had
time in the Jersey and he's really established and grown.
Cortez is another one. He gets the nod to start
cam Royguard only fresh coming back, but no TJ Pelnara,
Filly Christy's gone by the wayside. This has been quite
the explosion, hasn't it. What a rise and rise for
(04:17):
mister m What do you make of his contribution to
the side in that nine Jersey.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Well, I like the way he plays, you know, he's
he's a strong half back. He's playing really well. You
know again he's he's sort of earned that spot and
I like it. I like the combination. I think he's
obviously looking at the future in that area and he's
put his hand up so he's been slepted there and
deservedly so a little bit surprised not to see TJ
in the mix somewhere, but then again cam Royguard is
(04:47):
again and not to the future, and someone who is
working his way back in and you know, he's a
player who can make a real difference off the bench,
So you know, I like it. I think it's exciting
to see those guys there and the Sleepers showing faith
in them.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Oh, how we're going to replace Aaron Smith. Oh, it's
the end of the world, hold my bed bad, two
guys straight and to play. What do you make of
Boden bart coming in at ten, that combination of nine
and ten and of course Demat coming off the bench later.
Is that the balance you think will work against this
English site?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah? Well, I mean, Damien's had plenty of opportunities at ten,
and I guess they're saying, well, look, whether they're not
quite satisfied here or not, it's hard hard to know
without hearing the coaches talk about it. But Boden's just
got the experience and he's been there, he's done that.
He can handle the big occasions. We know he's a
big occasion player, so they want to see him and
that cauldron have taken them and give him the opportunity.
(05:38):
So yeah, you know, for me, either one of them
could have got it, but I think they've just said, look,
Damien's had some opportunities, but we want to give Boden
this one.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Put your coach hat on, put your captain had on,
put your player's hat on. Who do you want in
that jersey? Is it Boden or is it d Matt
guy in front of it?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
For us? Reuben, look for me right at the moment,
I would probably lean towards Boden just because he's got
the experience. You still need a strong leader in that
teen jersey and Damian I think he's a brilliant play
don't get me wrong, But I just don't know if
Tens's best position. I think he's probably more valuable either
at fallback or as anig player off the bench.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Don't think you're on in that one, Reuben Thorn. We're
going to finish things off shortly. But before we do that,
your old teammate Rasor Robertson you play with them? Why
crusades to play with them? Canterbury? Do you play from
all blacks as well? I mean, you guys know each other.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
He's had an interesting year. How do you think he's
handling the demands and the rigor and the balance of
being an all black coach, a job he's always chaerised.
It's been a big year for him.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, Look, there's no doubt it's been a big learning curve,
I would imagine. But you've got to remember that this
group of coaches and even the players, it's probably gone
through the biggest change around, you know, in twenty thirty years.
I don't know. It's been almost a complete change from
the manager through that whole coaching group and certainly some
very senior experienced players that have also left. So it's
(06:58):
been a big change for them and they're navigating their
way through it, you know, And I think no Razors
would have been. He's been learning a lot through this,
I guess, just the extra challenges of test matches compared
to Super Rugby. It is a different environment. There's so
much more scrutiny, no second chances if you looked purely
at results. There's been a couple that have got away
on them, But overall, I think he's building a group there,
(07:18):
and he's building a coaching group and a management group
as well at the same time. So you know, I
think they will they will take a lot out of
the season and be all the stronger for it.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
You know him reasonably well, you'd know that tells you know,
how reacts. Have you seen anything in the way he's
reacted that have suggested that's hit him harder tour or
is it just a case of that's Razor doing what
Razor does and he's adjusting as it goes along.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, he's pretty strong in his convictions and the way
he wants to play and get things done and do things,
so he'll stick to his guns. Look, he's no doubt
there's been a bit of pressure on him, but you know,
I don't see any obvious signs that he's struggling with it.
It's just natural that there is more pressure and more
expectation and it's a bit tighter at the top when
you're in that hot seat. So I think after this
(08:04):
season he'll reflect on it and there'll be a lot
of learnings, a lot of growth for personally around how
to manage and all that group, how to bring them
together and how to get the best out of those players.
That there's quite a few guys in there who hasn't
coached before. So the more time they' s been together,
the more they work together, I think the smoothest things
will become.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Let's finish it off with a very predictable end with
the prediction who wins how much by.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I think just looking at the teams on paper, I
think they're a Blacks. If they get this set piece right,
I think they'll win. I'll say twelve and over.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I like that confidence. Let's hope they don't see the
bed cheats in the last twenty minutes. That's how big thing.
Ruben Thorn, thank you so much as always for joining
us here on news Talk ZB mate you enjoy your weekend.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Thanks Artie Kiss.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
For more from sports talk, listen live to News Talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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