November 5, 2024 • 10 mins
Founder of 'Boys get paid' Luke Kemeys joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss the increase of sports gambling in New Zealand.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Ten minutes after seven. This is news Talks there be
on sports Talk we're talking gambling, the rise and rise
of sports betting, of gambling on the g Jesus well,
primarily amongst a younger audience. Younger consumers very much targeted
at to them, and you don't have to be staring
(00:33):
into the nearest television or newspaper to see that that's
actually happening. It's a I won't say an assault, but
it's a lot more prevalent and aimed at much younger audiences,
hugely pushed. I want to look at this whether it's good, bad,
or in different We joined now by a founder of
Boys Get Paid Punters Club. His name is Luke Keimi's Luke.
(00:57):
Welcome to the show made.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
How are you bloody well? Make good to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's great to have you on board. This has gotten
extraordinarily fashionable, hasn't it in the last few years. The
amount of people involved and engaged in horse racing specifically,
it's really on the rise and rise, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yeah, for sure, I think there is a little bit
of a renaissance and a resurgence in terms of racing
and people getting in behind it, which is cool to see.
And there's probably a few things behind that, but yeah,
people are certainly enjoying it so predominantly.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
What do you think it is? What's the drive?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Well, it's been a little bit of a changing of
the guard in terms of how the tab is run
in New Zealand, and with let's just say partnering you know,
with the tab effectively and taking it over, it's probably
the easiest way to explain it to people. They are
pretty keen to sort of put some money in and
help the industry grow and it is a big industry
for the country in terms of exporting horses and all
(01:50):
sorts of different things, and many people don't understand that
when people have a bet on whether it's racing or sport,
a portion of those profits goes back into that sport.
So yeah, I think they're trying to do more to
explain that. But then also you know, make it a
little bit more normalized to have a bit, as if
you know, people do with lotto, which is very accepted,
(02:10):
but sports and racing are probably just behind the eight
ball a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Why is that like that?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Do you think what is the general attitude towards it
is seen as being super old school, a bit seedy,
a wasted time, and why is the narrative not as
positive as it has been in the past.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Look, I think there's probably you know, all of those
things if you asked, you know, the everyday person. But
part of it as well is that a long time ago,
racing was one of the only things you could bet on,
and it was probably you know, my grandfather's They loved
it and they would be.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Having a bit and it was very normal for them.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
And then as things have gone, it's just you know,
people have got other things they could be doing, whether
it's sport or going to carnivals and festivals or different things,
and so bettings sort have fallen out of favor a
little bit. And then there probably is as well the
social license people are sorry portioned to it as well, that.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
People talk about as well.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
But yeah, I think it's sort of just gone under
the radar and been under invested in.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
But now it's how a little bit of a comeback.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Boys get paid. The leader Luke Kemy's joins us. So
the youth are getting involved too, and you mentioned social
media and the attack on the youth. Attack sounds at cruel,
doesn't it. But that's where they're aiming at because that's
that's the growth area as opposed to our grandparents. It's
not very growth herey or at all, Luke.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
So the Tab slash Intat have actually launched another brand
called Betcher, and that's probably more targeted towards younger people
to who are more focused on sports bedding. And why
they're actually doing that is because what a lot of
people don't understand is that young, younger people have decided
to start betting overseas and so when they choose these
overseas bookmakers, basically New Zealand dollars are flooding overseas and
(03:48):
so then the New Zealand Sports don't actually see a doult.
Well they see a little bit of that, but they
don't have to return as much as if it was
held in this country back into the New Zealand Sports.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So Betcher is, from what.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I've kind of looked into it there to give the
TAB effectively a second chance with a different demographic and
make betting a little bit more social and fun. And
I think we've got to get past the stigma that
everybody who's having a bet is a degenerate gambler or
they're going to end up with a gambling problem.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
And it doesn't need to be like that.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
And you know, people don't really look at lotto like that,
but with sports and racing, bedding they sort of do.
So the bitch of angle is massively towards younger people. Okay,
let's keep it social, but of course let's keep it responsible.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
You say fun, it's all fun until you start losing money.
But in your experience an inndotally and you're obviously at
a big event today, most people do it for fun.
Maybe it's overexposed the people that don't do it for fun.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Is that fair? Yeah, I mean from what I see.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I mean, let's be honest, Like any vice or any
dangerous hobby, there are always people who will take it
too far. And we actually live in a country where
we have a lot of support systems for people who
end up gambling too much.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
If there's visibility of that.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Now, if people start betting offshore or on like casinos
and things like that, we their obligations aren't as high
as let's say the tab for instance, who you know,
they will have an obligation to keep an eye out
if you are, you know, betting beyond your means or
your regular activity. So you know there are safeguards. But
(05:21):
of course there are people who run into trouble. But
there are also you know, ways that people can get
help if they need it, and we need to educate
people that it should be fun and when it goes
beyond that, then you need to stop and you need
to put your hand.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Up and ask for help.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
How addictive is it?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Oh? Just like anything, right, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I think there are the people who they do it
for fun, and then there are people who probably think, okay,
this could be my way to get rich, much like
lot or on a Saturday. But I think with racing
and sport you learn very quick, you know what, You're
not going to get rich doing this. You're not going
to completely change your life. And that's probably you know,
the piece that once people learn that, they realize, okay,
(05:59):
this isn't about trying to get rich quickly or win
millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
It's something that you might be interested in, but.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
You need to do it with a portion of money
that you're willing to let go like any other hobby,
whether you're hunting or traveling or whatever it is that
you're doing. That's probably how the people that I spend
time with, that's how they view it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You constantly hear it, do not bet more than can
afford to lose. All of these slogans. The slang that
come out of the racing industry is a lot of that.
Though lip service is it saying we're aware of this.
We've got to say things like that because that's what's accepted.
(06:39):
Now Does any of this have cut through as far
as looking after problem gamblers? Like the bright Lights actually
work by promoting this attitude around responsibility.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Why, Actually think younger people are a lot better at
talking to each other around mental health things that are
dangerous for them, whether it be drinking or whatnot. And
they will have those conversations, and I think they will
spot their friends and go, hey, you know, you might
be still and over the line here, whereas I think,
you know, this is just my opinion, but some of
the older generations would kind of hide it or go,
(07:13):
you know, it's not a problem for me, and other
people are like, oh, okay, well you know it maybe,
but I do think younger people are a little bit
more in tune of hey, that this is no good
for me, I'm going to steer clear of it, which
is good. But I do think that you know, often
will say gamble responsibly, which is as smart to say.
But I do think within our friend groups and whatnot,
(07:34):
you need to be.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Looking out for each other.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And if people are, you know, drinking beyond what they
should be, or gambling beyond what they should be, or
doing whatever it is beyond what is reasonably healthy, someone
needs to step in and say, hey, you know, is
everything all right?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Is this going too far for you?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
And I do think we're getting better at those conversations
at a younger age group, whereas you know, you hear
stories of people struggling to talk to their friends and
to each other and some of their older demographics.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So from what you can see, Luke, it is healthy,
it is accepted, and it seems to be going okay,
targeted at the youth, the growing population with minimal problems
or is that glossing over it?
Speaker 4 (08:16):
From what I see, I see that there are a
number of ways for if you're keeping.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Your betting within New Zealand. With New Zealand registered entities
i e.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Betcher or the tab They have a responsibility to keep
an eye on what you're doing, and they will certainly
get in touch if they think that you've got a
regular activity. Once you start taking your betting off shore
and there aren't those obligations, you have to be very
careful with your mates and with yourself of whose obligation
it is to say to.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
You, hey, you know, are you going too far?
Speaker 4 (08:45):
And I don't think they know those safeguards aren't there.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So, like anything, there will.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Be people that will argue that, you know, vices are
bad or good, But we don't often talk about the
social good that comes of having a bet because we're
just so focused on the negative. So, you know, getting
together and spending some time together and talking and you know,
enjoying some thing together and having a common goal and
having something to focus on outside of your work, all
of those things are brushed over and it's just okay,
(09:12):
what are the negatives of gambling? But I do think that,
you know, sometimes we over highlight that when there are
also you know, some really good things that come of
these different industries.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Great way to finish things, Luke ask one more thing,
Boys get paid been around for a while, you guys
in the black or what.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yeah, we've had some tough years, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
We're actually launching a new punters club next week down
there at christ Church. But you know, we've certainly we've
had our years where we've lost money.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We've had our years we have won money. And what
we've done.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Always is say like, do not get involved in this
if you, you know, are expecting to ten ex.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Your money or make a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
This is all for community and a bit of fun
and been able to screamer a couple of horses home
together with your friends. But if you're getting in for
the wrong reasons, we do not want you involved in this.
And we're getting louder and louder with that because you
know what, we actually don't want to be dealing with
those people that have those unrealistic expectations. Of course, everyone's
excited when when they win, but you know, ninety five
(10:09):
percent of people are great when we lose. But there's
always the few people that you know, you should have
backed this, or you should have done this, or why
were you doing this? But you know, we're very open
that if you put your money in then expect that
you may get nothing back, and that's exactly how it works,
much like you know lotto.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talk
sa'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Ten minutes after seven. This is news Talks there be
on sports Talk we're talking gambling, the rise and rise
of sports betting, of gambling on the g Jesus well,
primarily amongst a younger audience. Younger consumers very much targeted
at to them, and you don't have to be staring
(00:33):
into the nearest television or newspaper to see that that's
actually happening. It's a I won't say an assault, but
it's a lot more prevalent and aimed at much younger audiences,
hugely pushed. I want to look at this whether it's good, bad,
or in different We joined now by a founder of
Boys Get Paid Punters Club. His name is Luke Keimi's Luke.
(00:57):
Welcome to the show made.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
How are you bloody well? Make good to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's great to have you on board. This has gotten
extraordinarily fashionable, hasn't it in the last few years. The
amount of people involved and engaged in horse racing specifically,
it's really on the rise and rise, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yeah, for sure, I think there is a little bit
of a renaissance and a resurgence in terms of racing
and people getting in behind it, which is cool to see.
And there's probably a few things behind that, but yeah,
people are certainly enjoying it so predominantly.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
What do you think it is? What's the drive?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Well, it's been a little bit of a changing of
the guard in terms of how the tab is run
in New Zealand, and with let's just say partnering you know,
with the tab effectively and taking it over, it's probably
the easiest way to explain it to people. They are
pretty keen to sort of put some money in and
help the industry grow and it is a big industry
for the country in terms of exporting horses and all
(01:50):
sorts of different things, and many people don't understand that
when people have a bet on whether it's racing or sport,
a portion of those profits goes back into that sport.
So yeah, I think they're trying to do more to
explain that. But then also you know, make it a
little bit more normalized to have a bit, as if
you know, people do with lotto, which is very accepted,
(02:10):
but sports and racing are probably just behind the eight
ball a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Why is that like that?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Do you think what is the general attitude towards it
is seen as being super old school, a bit seedy,
a wasted time, and why is the narrative not as
positive as it has been in the past.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Look, I think there's probably you know, all of those
things if you asked, you know, the everyday person. But
part of it as well is that a long time ago,
racing was one of the only things you could bet on,
and it was probably you know, my grandfather's They loved
it and they would be.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Having a bit and it was very normal for them.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
And then as things have gone, it's just you know,
people have got other things they could be doing, whether
it's sport or going to carnivals and festivals or different things,
and so bettings sort have fallen out of favor a
little bit. And then there probably is as well the
social license people are sorry portioned to it as well, that.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
People talk about as well.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
But yeah, I think it's sort of just gone under
the radar and been under invested in.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
But now it's how a little bit of a comeback.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Boys get paid. The leader Luke Kemy's joins us. So
the youth are getting involved too, and you mentioned social
media and the attack on the youth. Attack sounds at cruel,
doesn't it. But that's where they're aiming at because that's
that's the growth area as opposed to our grandparents. It's
not very growth herey or at all, Luke.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
So the Tab slash Intat have actually launched another brand
called Betcher, and that's probably more targeted towards younger people
to who are more focused on sports bedding. And why
they're actually doing that is because what a lot of
people don't understand is that young, younger people have decided
to start betting overseas and so when they choose these
overseas bookmakers, basically New Zealand dollars are flooding overseas and
(03:48):
so then the New Zealand Sports don't actually see a doult.
Well they see a little bit of that, but they
don't have to return as much as if it was
held in this country back into the New Zealand Sports.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So Betcher is, from what.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I've kind of looked into it there to give the
TAB effectively a second chance with a different demographic and
make betting a little bit more social and fun. And
I think we've got to get past the stigma that
everybody who's having a bet is a degenerate gambler or
they're going to end up with a gambling problem.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
And it doesn't need to be like that.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
And you know, people don't really look at lotto like that,
but with sports and racing, bedding they sort of do.
So the bitch of angle is massively towards younger people. Okay,
let's keep it social, but of course let's keep it responsible.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
You say fun, it's all fun until you start losing money.
But in your experience an inndotally and you're obviously at
a big event today, most people do it for fun.
Maybe it's overexposed the people that don't do it for fun.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Is that fair? Yeah, I mean from what I see.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I mean, let's be honest, Like any vice or any
dangerous hobby, there are always people who will take it
too far. And we actually live in a country where
we have a lot of support systems for people who
end up gambling too much.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
If there's visibility of that.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Now, if people start betting offshore or on like casinos
and things like that, we their obligations aren't as high
as let's say the tab for instance, who you know,
they will have an obligation to keep an eye out
if you are, you know, betting beyond your means or
your regular activity. So you know there are safeguards. But
(05:21):
of course there are people who run into trouble. But
there are also you know, ways that people can get
help if they need it, and we need to educate
people that it should be fun and when it goes
beyond that, then you need to stop and you need
to put your hand.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Up and ask for help.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
How addictive is it?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Oh? Just like anything, right, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I think there are the people who they do it
for fun, and then there are people who probably think, okay,
this could be my way to get rich, much like
lot or on a Saturday. But I think with racing
and sport you learn very quick, you know what, You're
not going to get rich doing this. You're not going
to completely change your life. And that's probably you know,
the piece that once people learn that, they realize, okay,
(05:59):
this isn't about trying to get rich quickly or win
millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
It's something that you might be interested in, but.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
You need to do it with a portion of money
that you're willing to let go like any other hobby,
whether you're hunting or traveling or whatever it is that
you're doing. That's probably how the people that I spend
time with, that's how they view it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You constantly hear it, do not bet more than can
afford to lose. All of these slogans. The slang that
come out of the racing industry is a lot of that.
Though lip service is it saying we're aware of this.
We've got to say things like that because that's what's accepted.
(06:39):
Now Does any of this have cut through as far
as looking after problem gamblers? Like the bright Lights actually
work by promoting this attitude around responsibility.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Why, Actually think younger people are a lot better at
talking to each other around mental health things that are
dangerous for them, whether it be drinking or whatnot. And
they will have those conversations, and I think they will
spot their friends and go, hey, you know, you might
be still and over the line here, whereas I think,
you know, this is just my opinion, but some of
the older generations would kind of hide it or go,
(07:13):
you know, it's not a problem for me, and other
people are like, oh, okay, well you know it maybe,
but I do think younger people are a little bit
more in tune of hey, that this is no good
for me, I'm going to steer clear of it, which
is good. But I do think that you know, often
will say gamble responsibly, which is as smart to say.
But I do think within our friend groups and whatnot,
(07:34):
you need to be.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Looking out for each other.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And if people are, you know, drinking beyond what they
should be, or gambling beyond what they should be, or
doing whatever it is beyond what is reasonably healthy, someone
needs to step in and say, hey, you know, is
everything all right?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Is this going too far for you?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
And I do think we're getting better at those conversations
at a younger age group, whereas you know, you hear
stories of people struggling to talk to their friends and
to each other and some of their older demographics.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So from what you can see, Luke, it is healthy,
it is accepted, and it seems to be going okay,
targeted at the youth, the growing population with minimal problems
or is that glossing over it?
Speaker 4 (08:16):
From what I see, I see that there are a
number of ways for if you're keeping.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Your betting within New Zealand. With New Zealand registered entities
i e.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Betcher or the tab They have a responsibility to keep
an eye on what you're doing, and they will certainly
get in touch if they think that you've got a
regular activity. Once you start taking your betting off shore
and there aren't those obligations, you have to be very
careful with your mates and with yourself of whose obligation
it is to say to.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
You, hey, you know, are you going too far?
Speaker 4 (08:45):
And I don't think they know those safeguards aren't there.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So, like anything, there will.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Be people that will argue that, you know, vices are
bad or good, But we don't often talk about the
social good that comes of having a bet because we're
just so focused on the negative. So, you know, getting
together and spending some time together and talking and you know,
enjoying some thing together and having a common goal and
having something to focus on outside of your work, all
of those things are brushed over and it's just okay,
(09:12):
what are the negatives of gambling? But I do think that,
you know, sometimes we over highlight that when there are
also you know, some really good things that come of
these different industries.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Great way to finish things, Luke ask one more thing,
Boys get paid been around for a while, you guys
in the black or what.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yeah, we've had some tough years, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
We're actually launching a new punters club next week down
there at christ Church. But you know, we've certainly we've
had our years where we've lost money.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We've had our years we have won money. And what
we've done.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Always is say like, do not get involved in this
if you, you know, are expecting to ten ex.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Your money or make a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
This is all for community and a bit of fun
and been able to screamer a couple of horses home
together with your friends. But if you're getting in for
the wrong reasons, we do not want you involved in this.
And we're getting louder and louder with that because you
know what, we actually don't want to be dealing with
those people that have those unrealistic expectations. Of course, everyone's
excited when when they win, but you know, ninety five
(10:09):
percent of people are great when we lose. But there's
always the few people that you know, you should have
backed this, or you should have done this, or why
were you doing this? But you know, we're very open
that if you put your money in then expect that
you may get nothing back, and that's exactly how it works,
much like you know lotto.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talk
sa'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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