November 8, 2024 • 9 mins
NZR Patron Ian Kirkpatrick joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss Irish rugby's improvement on the global stage.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Z'd be in Kirkpatrick, former All Black, former All Black
Skipper world, a Rugby Hall of Famer and National Rugby
Hall of Famer. You got everything, including a phone, he
joins us now in Kirkpatrick.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
The pleasure is mine. How are you mate?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
I'm pretty good, Darcy.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Just doing a tiny bit of research around before before calling.
It was mind very very young. I remember you being
spoken of by my father in the light when I
was playing around, you know, three or four years old
in the early seventies.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You were one of the names that always came up.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Just looking back at that tour that you captained Are
Over to Britain seventy two seventy three.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
What a phenomenal tour that was.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
What your first game was mid October, he didn't finish
till mid February. Played like what twenty seven matches, a
handful of tests a Barbarians game. There was only thirty
two of you. That's insane.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
In yeah, I know the game was a little bit
easier then I guess, but we used to play two
games a week. We'd play on Tuesday before a Test match.
But apart from that, it was two games a week
for about four and a half months. Yeah, and I
was that's what it was on the day, you know that,
you know, we were prepared for It was always good
to be able to play probably every every sort of
(01:31):
third week, probably two games a week, just to keep
keep the fits up. And yeah, no, so it's a
bit different. I mean the game it's a bit different now.
It's physical and you know, it's just got sometimes crazily
gladiatorial in my view anyway, But that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You came in that time over there and you played
the Grand Slam was there. You didn't get it done, But.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What you beat Wales, beat Scotland, you beat England and
then that Irish match drawn ten teens. There's a couple
of parallels around the way it's going because you neat
game was up against front, same as what these have
guys got now England, Island, France.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So we I said it right down to this Test
match coming up.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yet it's modern, yeb it's fastest, it's extremely brutal, and
I expect last time we saw these guys play it
was exactly that wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
This will be quite the test.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Oh yeah, it will be, yes, pecially in Dublin. Yeah,
they have a good outfit Island. They'll worry about that.
I mean, they might be getting a little bit on
the older side, but still with a damn good side
and they you know, they've always played well in Dublin.
So yeah, the guys are going to have to really
play well. I just think they know they can eliminate
(02:43):
some of those basic errors that they'll be making that
are sort of putting a bit of pressure back on us.
They can get rid of that and the sort of
get down to dominating the set pieces and actually dominating
the possession. Well, you know, I think they're going with
a good chance, but it's not going to be easy
for them.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
So nothing's really changed, has it. You talk about it.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Don't make mistakes, get your set pieces right. So even
though a lot of the game has the basics are
still very much there.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
They're the building blocks, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
In Yeah, pretty much. You just you can't really afford
to make basic errors because if you do that, you know,
you you lose the ball. You've got to get it
back again. In the process of that, you're probably giving
a penalty away here there and maybe a try here.
It's a game about being pretty correct and accurate really,
so you know, that's it's you know, I'm sure the
(03:30):
boys can do that. You know, there's not too much
of a problem to get rid of that. But they've
just got to be on the on their metal for
the whole eighty minutes.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We're joined by n Kirkpatrick, looking head to tomorrow morning's
test match. How is the shape of this team, how
they've been developing over this season? Do you think they're
on the improved?
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think I don't know
if they could pick a better team at the moment,
you know, without guys who are unavailable because of injury,
But yeah, I think you know, we've still got heaps
of talent here that's waiting to be developed, and I
just think it's you know, if we can do those
simple things, well I think you know, we're going to
see the best of what we've got. And yeah, it's
(04:14):
just it's all about you know, not making mistakes and
being being right on their metal for eady minutes. Just
wondering whether in that English game that the refereeing I
know that all teams do it. But I just have
a funny feeling that at times the English defensive line
where you know that they would have been offside quite
a few times and which makes just makes them getting
(04:36):
the ball out quick as they can just makes it
that and were harder. It's those defensive lines and not
being back where they should be. And so some referees,
you know, they they pinpoint out sometimes and other times
they don't know. I just think I thought the English
back line of time has got it. You know, they
had a fair bit of leeway.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You were a most respected flanker.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Let's look at the loose forward trio and how they
have developed. Great to see Sam Cain in these still
doing what he does with this young Wallace Satiti carrot.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
He's quite the fine, isn't he.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
No, he's seen something else. He's sort of he's what
already Severe was like when he starts. Got so much
talent that he you know that he never hardly ever
dies with the ball. It's the offloads and he's quick,
and he's his ball sense is good. It's you know, yeah,
he's got everything. He's a real find and he's sim
(05:32):
ented this place, that's for sure. Whether it's six or
eight makes most difference with him really replays.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
How confident of you of the work that Damie McKenzie
is going to do in the pivot role. This has
been not the talking point because he has to replace
because Bowden's simply not there. But you lose whom you
lose Cody, Taylor and Ethan. The group still hasn't been packed.
Is that a big weakness? Do you think of the
side in Kampetrick?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Oh? Yeah, you know, as I suppose you know, Dabie McKenzie.
He's a dangerous player. You know, I think he's probably
more of a off the bench player than maybe a
general overall. But he's you know, he has got to
be watched, right, there's no doubt about that. I think
you've got to have, you know, the first five has
got to be a very good general and you know
(06:18):
it's pretty hard to get to get the right sort
of mix in the first five. And he can do both,
you know, be a general to take the opportunities when
the rises with stam in McKinsey can do like no
one else can. But I think you know, he operates
better if we're going forward and we you know, we're
dominating and so there's a little bit he's got a
(06:40):
little bit more room to working and just hope that
he's you know, some of his decusans ready be caxt
or runs or not, are the right things made it
at the right time. So it's yeah, it's a lot
to ask of him, but you know that's what he's
there for.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
What about the tight five with with the lack of
Cody Taylor and the changes around were not the changes
but the continued use of Tomty Williams coming in and
that head position.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah, ye know, but yeah, the front rows, no problems
with that, just maybe as throwing in my left sharpen
up a little bit. A part from that note, it's
it's a pretty good forward pack. Vile for one, has
really come on as a lock and you know he's
been a good partner for Scott Barrett and so yeah,
(07:28):
he's he's he's a player that's really growing, especially on
this this year, and so yeah it's good to see
and you know we need that. And so yeah, I think,
you know, we I think our forward pack with all
the Chaine, with a few changes and because of injuries
here and there, I think we've still got a pretty
good forward pack, so you know it's something you know
(07:50):
it's going to certainly help us.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Can we win this game? Were you just not really
want to put a forward over the long?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
To tell you what, the pundits, the betters, the bookies,
they they don't like our chances add all paying two
dollars sixty would you read about it?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Well, it's I think it's good to be like it
because we'll give them we give them boys a bit
more determination. I mean, if you're not not in the
bedding stakes, or even better still, because you go out
there knowing that okay, they think they're going to but
they're going to beat us. I mean, it's it's pretty
good for a team that's especially on two and you
(08:26):
and you've got no one really wanted you to win
the game, with all the fans back home you're worrying about,
and so it's always good to go out there being underdog.
And if they want to, you know, the betting guys
want to say, we're you know, we're going to be
behind the eight ball. Well we'll see what happens. But
it's good. I think it's you know, as a as
(08:49):
a touring team and you're you know there's seventy thousands
out there don't want you to win. Man, that's a
pretty good incentive to say, well, you know, stick it,
you know, we'll give it to your life.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
For more from sports talk, listen Lived and News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Z'd be in Kirkpatrick, former All Black, former All Black
Skipper world, a Rugby Hall of Famer and National Rugby
Hall of Famer. You got everything, including a phone, he
joins us now in Kirkpatrick.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
The pleasure is mine. How are you mate?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
I'm pretty good, Darcy.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Just doing a tiny bit of research around before before calling.
It was mind very very young. I remember you being
spoken of by my father in the light when I
was playing around, you know, three or four years old
in the early seventies.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You were one of the names that always came up.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Just looking back at that tour that you captained Are
Over to Britain seventy two seventy three.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
What a phenomenal tour that was.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
What your first game was mid October, he didn't finish
till mid February. Played like what twenty seven matches, a
handful of tests a Barbarians game. There was only thirty
two of you. That's insane.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
In yeah, I know the game was a little bit
easier then I guess, but we used to play two
games a week. We'd play on Tuesday before a Test match.
But apart from that, it was two games a week
for about four and a half months. Yeah, and I
was that's what it was on the day, you know that,
you know, we were prepared for It was always good
to be able to play probably every every sort of
(01:31):
third week, probably two games a week, just to keep
keep the fits up. And yeah, no, so it's a
bit different. I mean the game it's a bit different now.
It's physical and you know, it's just got sometimes crazily
gladiatorial in my view anyway, But that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You came in that time over there and you played
the Grand Slam was there. You didn't get it done, But.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What you beat Wales, beat Scotland, you beat England and
then that Irish match drawn ten teens. There's a couple
of parallels around the way it's going because you neat
game was up against front, same as what these have
guys got now England, Island, France.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So we I said it right down to this Test
match coming up.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yet it's modern, yeb it's fastest, it's extremely brutal, and
I expect last time we saw these guys play it
was exactly that wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
This will be quite the test.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Oh yeah, it will be, yes, pecially in Dublin. Yeah,
they have a good outfit Island. They'll worry about that.
I mean, they might be getting a little bit on
the older side, but still with a damn good side
and they you know, they've always played well in Dublin.
So yeah, the guys are going to have to really
play well. I just think they know they can eliminate
(02:43):
some of those basic errors that they'll be making that
are sort of putting a bit of pressure back on us.
They can get rid of that and the sort of
get down to dominating the set pieces and actually dominating
the possession. Well, you know, I think they're going with
a good chance, but it's not going to be easy
for them.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
So nothing's really changed, has it. You talk about it.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Don't make mistakes, get your set pieces right. So even
though a lot of the game has the basics are
still very much there.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
They're the building blocks, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
In Yeah, pretty much. You just you can't really afford
to make basic errors because if you do that, you know,
you you lose the ball. You've got to get it
back again. In the process of that, you're probably giving
a penalty away here there and maybe a try here.
It's a game about being pretty correct and accurate really,
so you know, that's it's you know, I'm sure the
(03:30):
boys can do that. You know, there's not too much
of a problem to get rid of that. But they've
just got to be on the on their metal for
the whole eighty minutes.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We're joined by n Kirkpatrick, looking head to tomorrow morning's
test match. How is the shape of this team, how
they've been developing over this season? Do you think they're
on the improved?
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think I don't know
if they could pick a better team at the moment,
you know, without guys who are unavailable because of injury,
But yeah, I think you know, we've still got heaps
of talent here that's waiting to be developed, and I
just think it's you know, if we can do those
simple things, well I think you know, we're going to
see the best of what we've got. And yeah, it's
(04:14):
just it's all about you know, not making mistakes and
being being right on their metal for eady minutes. Just
wondering whether in that English game that the refereeing I
know that all teams do it. But I just have
a funny feeling that at times the English defensive line
where you know that they would have been offside quite
a few times and which makes just makes them getting
(04:36):
the ball out quick as they can just makes it
that and were harder. It's those defensive lines and not
being back where they should be. And so some referees,
you know, they they pinpoint out sometimes and other times
they don't know. I just think I thought the English
back line of time has got it. You know, they
had a fair bit of leeway.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You were a most respected flanker.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Let's look at the loose forward trio and how they
have developed. Great to see Sam Cain in these still
doing what he does with this young Wallace Satiti carrot.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
He's quite the fine, isn't he.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
No, he's seen something else. He's sort of he's what
already Severe was like when he starts. Got so much
talent that he you know that he never hardly ever
dies with the ball. It's the offloads and he's quick,
and he's his ball sense is good. It's you know, yeah,
he's got everything. He's a real find and he's sim
(05:32):
ented this place, that's for sure. Whether it's six or
eight makes most difference with him really replays.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
How confident of you of the work that Damie McKenzie
is going to do in the pivot role. This has
been not the talking point because he has to replace
because Bowden's simply not there. But you lose whom you
lose Cody, Taylor and Ethan. The group still hasn't been packed.
Is that a big weakness? Do you think of the
side in Kampetrick?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Oh? Yeah, you know, as I suppose you know, Dabie McKenzie.
He's a dangerous player. You know, I think he's probably
more of a off the bench player than maybe a
general overall. But he's you know, he has got to
be watched, right, there's no doubt about that. I think
you've got to have, you know, the first five has
got to be a very good general and you know
(06:18):
it's pretty hard to get to get the right sort
of mix in the first five. And he can do both,
you know, be a general to take the opportunities when
the rises with stam in McKinsey can do like no
one else can. But I think you know, he operates
better if we're going forward and we you know, we're
dominating and so there's a little bit he's got a
(06:40):
little bit more room to working and just hope that
he's you know, some of his decusans ready be caxt
or runs or not, are the right things made it
at the right time. So it's yeah, it's a lot
to ask of him, but you know that's what he's
there for.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
What about the tight five with with the lack of
Cody Taylor and the changes around were not the changes
but the continued use of Tomty Williams coming in and
that head position.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah, ye know, but yeah, the front rows, no problems
with that, just maybe as throwing in my left sharpen
up a little bit. A part from that note, it's
it's a pretty good forward pack. Vile for one, has
really come on as a lock and you know he's
been a good partner for Scott Barrett and so yeah,
(07:28):
he's he's he's a player that's really growing, especially on
this this year, and so yeah it's good to see
and you know we need that. And so yeah, I think,
you know, we I think our forward pack with all
the Chaine, with a few changes and because of injuries
here and there, I think we've still got a pretty
good forward pack, so you know it's something you know
(07:50):
it's going to certainly help us.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Can we win this game? Were you just not really
want to put a forward over the long?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
To tell you what, the pundits, the betters, the bookies,
they they don't like our chances add all paying two
dollars sixty would you read about it?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Well, it's I think it's good to be like it
because we'll give them we give them boys a bit
more determination. I mean, if you're not not in the
bedding stakes, or even better still, because you go out
there knowing that okay, they think they're going to but
they're going to beat us. I mean, it's it's pretty
good for a team that's especially on two and you
(08:26):
and you've got no one really wanted you to win
the game, with all the fans back home you're worrying about,
and so it's always good to go out there being underdog.
And if they want to, you know, the betting guys
want to say, we're you know, we're going to be
behind the eight ball. Well we'll see what happens. But
it's good. I think it's you know, as a as
(08:49):
a touring team and you're you know there's seventy thousands
out there don't want you to win. Man, that's a
pretty good incentive to say, well, you know, stick it,
you know, we'll give it to your life.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
For more from sports talk, listen Lived and News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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