November 14, 2024 • 42 mins
ZB's own D'Arcy Waldegrave returns to cap off the week in the wonderful world of sport! Highlights for tonight include:
- Dr John Mayhew
- Talkback
- David Chote
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Good anything.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Welcome into Thursday, although it's been here for quite some time.
If you have just worked out what day it is,
what a sleepy you are? Seven minutes up to seven
Thursday Night, fourteenth November twenty twenty four high. My name's
Darcy wart to Grave in my host from now through
to eight o'clock. We talk sports in the name now,
isn't it sports Talk? And when I say we, I
mean me and a couple of my guests and you.
(01:14):
Oh eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty free phone
number nationwide. Connect. Let your voice and your opinion be
heard on the wireless. I'd love to talk to you.
Nineteen nine two. If you're a bit shy ficks text
standard text charge well applied, you call me. It's nothing,
it's free entertainment. Are we going to be talk about
concussion tonight? In the wake of the the curious story
(01:39):
of Tom Robinson fearing an All Blacks call up after
many concussions. It's turn everything about on its backside. It's
a very strange tale. There's probably some lessons in there
as well. We're going to talk about concussion and about
the reaction to that from players at a number of
(02:00):
levels at degrees of concussion. So much to talk about
their former All Black team. Doctor John Mayhew whill be
joining us shortly to discuss that curious story tomorrow. Are
the All Whites carrying on with their drive to qualify
for the World Cup. That's not the big story. The
huge stories of what if they don't and that won't happen,
They'll be fine. What in their crosshairs? That is coming
(02:24):
up in Hamilton tomorrow evening and we'll be joined by
former White international David Choate as we take a look
at the team, what they're trying to do, the shape
of the side, the contribution of the coach and how
much work he has to do, and of course the
phenomenon that is Chris Wood. What a freak show and
(02:47):
the nicest possible way I might have. That's our master plan.
Please get involved. I'd love to hear from you. This
is news Stork's heb nine after seven.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Let's start now Sport Today and.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
It Sport Today. Former KIMI coach Frank Endicott believes the
inner our expansion team in christ will be a partnership
and it won't be between the Orcas and the Keya.
So he's keen to be the other party because the
Anti christ Church needs leg But I got to say, Frank, well,
I really don't think the NRL are interested. I mean,
(03:19):
how many ways do they have to say no?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Hold on? Maybe they could front up and say no,
that's a good idea.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
I can't see the Orcers going along with the Keres,
so that puts us in a good position.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
To go with one or the other.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
If we have to go alone, we will. But I
see it a major advantage to us to amalgamate with
another party for the good of the city.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Indeed, Michael Bracewall can see a light at the end
of the tunnel, the tunnel where the black Caps rolled
their car overnight and they were thumped. But there were lessons,
weren't they, beast I'm sure they were.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
The experiences that you get in this part of the world,
obviously very different conditions for what we face back home
in New Zealand, and those experiences you bank and you
learn from and hopefully they've become better.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Over fifty golf centersation, Stephen Elk gave up, the relentless
self flagellation, and it's actually worked.
Speaker 7 (04:13):
I used to beat myself up a little bit trying
to work on the game and get better, and you
know I don't do that as much now.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
That's one big thing that helps.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I think I've matured at fifty.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And Clark laid Law Hurricanes over lord reckons that sevens
at rugby will be just the tonic for the likes
of Oli Metha So missed out on a super contract
this year.
Speaker 8 (04:33):
There's travel, and there's pressure, and there's sixty thousand Olympics
rather than just playing maybe club rugby or under twenty tournament.
It's not the solution to everything, and it's not for everybody.
Think of Oli Mathisen floating around, how good would he
be at sevens? That would help him be ready for fifteens?
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Of course it will.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
It'd be extraordinary in sevens and.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That's sport today now.
Speaker 9 (04:53):
The kickout to them Roberts, he put it right on
the budget, got a nice little role.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Looking at it, he's he's bugget.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Tom beautifully described. He's buggered and what a chap he
is as well, lovely man and he's walked away from
the game that he loved that he almost reached the
top of but something wasn't right. Tom Robinson, former blues Ford,
former Blues skipper, has talked about his fear of an
(05:30):
international call up. This is a massive guy, arguably a
cult figure in the game. Like nearly two meters tall
masses of red hair. Had all the fun he could
and he could play it. He was a half man
when he played. But on social media last month agoing
you know that's it, I'm retiring. I'm out now. Just
recently he's come out to go well, I was actually
(05:52):
faking injuries because I was terrified of my concussion. I
didn't want to be picked for the All Blacks, a
dream I've had all my life. It scared me to
think I'd be in that contact zone. So I feigned
some injury in order to not be selected. Basically quite
the about face from previous times were joined now by
doctor John Mayhew from an All Blacks team. Doctor worries
(06:13):
as well. I might add to talk about Tom Robinson
retiring and what he released to us a few days
ago on social media. Welcome to the show, John, I trust.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You well very well. Thank you. Darsin.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
This is a curious case, isn't it Tom Robinson coming
out and saying, look, I faked injury so I didn't
get selected for the All Blacks. And this is all
under the fog of concussion that he experienced. He didn't
want to go any further. I've never heard of this before.
What about yourself? Normally they say I'm not injured so
(06:48):
they can carry on playing. This is quite the turn up, isn't.
Speaker 7 (06:50):
It It is? I think you did right there. And
I've had a number of players who have had several
head injuries and then made decisions early in their career
to stop playing football. But they've done that quite publicly
and saying, look, I've had two or three concussions twenty one,
twenty two. I'm concerned they'll be long term problems, and
(07:11):
I'm going to cut my losses now. And that's made
It's probably quite an intelligent, rational decision. What I find
quite unusual here as the player was hiding that he
was worried about head injury and avoiding playing, but without
telling people and the reason why he was avoiding playing.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
So it's a bit.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
Unusual, and hopefully he's made a full recovery from his
head injuries, and he's possibly made a very wise decision
to avoid further injury and get on with his life
in other areas, and not so for the consequences of
repeated head injury. But the mystery is, you know why
he felt that he couldn't discuss that with his medical
(07:50):
advisors or coaches, and I had to pretend he was
injured to avoid selection.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Another story that I won't say will put the frighteners
up people, but again, it brings awareness to the nature
of head injury. I see it as being positive that
he's done this, not a negative. But maybe that's what
he is thinking. Not that we can tell anyone what
he was thinking, because we simply don't know. But this
is a good news story, you think.
Speaker 7 (08:18):
Yeah, I think it is. I mean, I mean, there's
a number of players I've dealt with over the last
three or four years who've decided to retire because of
you know, what they deem as frequent head injuries, and
you know, fortunately most of them are not brain damage
to any extent, but they're concerned about the future. And
these are often young graduates, you know, who've got other
careers ahead of them, and they've made a decision to say, well, okay,
(08:41):
I'm going to decrease the odds of further damage by
not playing. And I think that's a very acceptable and
very wise thing to do. When they do that, you know,
quite publicly, I'm disappointed that, you know, a player like
this felt that he couldn't be honest with his coaching staff,
medical staff and say, look, you know, I don't want
to play because I'm worried about heat injury, and I
(09:03):
think it may be best that I don't carry on playing,
and that'll be the way to do it. And I
think in twenty twenty four, you know, we're much more
aware of the dangers of head injury. And it's certainly
except all we've gone past that Marcho phase of you know,
play on you know if you can sort of thing,
and I think it's a wise thing to do. So
(09:23):
I applaud him for doing what he's doing, but it's
a shame that he felt that he had to sort
of do it in a surreptitious sort of way.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Dr John Mayhew joining the program. Back in the day,
people would hide injury so they would get selected. How
in this day and a difficult is it to hide
something like head injury. It's blanket covered. Everyone's very very
well aware of concussion of head knocks, of how players
are affected. They've got video. But is it an easy
(09:52):
enough thing to mask? I don't know why you would
it easy enough to mask in this day and age.
Speaker 7 (09:57):
Well, it's certainly at the professional level now it's pretty
hard to get away with a player playing with head
injury because there are protocols in place or the training
games of videos, so it's very hard to avoid you know,
that are being diagnosed with a head injury. So I
think that's unlikely. I mean certainly at lower levels or
training where there's no video assessment and things like that,
(10:20):
injuries can occur. And often I still see patients who say, look,
I felt good at the game, but you know later
on I had a headache, and then you go through
the tape and you find that you know they may
have had a head injury and you're dealt with accordingly.
But I think at the professional level now players don't
try to hide head injury. It's certainly at lower levels
(10:44):
and even worse at visiting rugby levels, players sometimes try
to hide things and unfortunately, sometimes the appearance and coaches,
you know, go along with it as.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well, there is a standard standdown period for players, but
I'm presuming that head injury takes on and concussion a
number of different forms, So to have a blanket stand
down period is that idea? Is that accurate? Does that
work for you the average rugby play, not even your
average bloke.
Speaker 7 (11:15):
What you're saying is definitely correct that I was in
a working party with acc and we came up with
some guidelines for non professional sportsmen across all the sporting codes,
and we came up with a minimum of three weeks
standout if anyone suffers a head injury and then they
needed to be cleared by a medical professional, a doctor,
(11:35):
not a physio. Now that what we've got to deal
with HEREDC is it's very hard for the average sportsmen
to get in to see a doctor, to get access
to all these neuropsychometric testing. So we made a pragmatic
decision which is the best for all concerned. And what
we're trying to say there that if you have a
head injury, it's going to be a minimum of three weeks.
(11:56):
You're then going to have a conversation with a medical
professional who assesses you and decides whether you can return
to play or not. So it's not ideal, I quite agree,
but it's the best option we've got at the moment.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So with the coverage that they get and the attention
to detail that all blacks get, this standdown period is
good because it is carried on with afterwards. They carry
on monitoring this. But for your average Joe, just tell
someone says you're okay, don't Yeah.
Speaker 7 (12:27):
Basically, you know, you've got to think the realistic thing.
There's thousands of young footballers and rugby league players that
play every weekend and there's no way that every of
them can be accessed to the level that all blacks
and professional players can be. So there had to be
a practical solution which did the most good for the
most people. Most head injuries across the board resolve in
(12:50):
seven to ten days, hence the eleven days stand down
the professional game as a minimum, but some will last longer,
some will last less than that, so we've had to
come up with a pragmatic and practical solution. It's by
no means perfect, and there'll be a small subgroup of players.
You'll need a long longer period of time off or
as we discussed earlier, it may need to give up
(13:11):
playing contact sport completely.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
And there's a number of different ways to be concussed.
I've experienced myself with the spinal compression that I had,
but as a blow to their head, it's just spine.
There's a number of different ways you can bring concussion
on yet.
Speaker 7 (13:25):
Yeah, exactly, but the end of the day, the cause
of the cocassion that is transient damage to the neur range,
to the brain cells and the brain cells in a way,
if they're damaged, it doesn't really matter the exact mechanism,
the damage is done, and then we have to deal
with that.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Dr John Mayhewn just before we go, the technology, the
advance and understanding around concussion not full proof yet, but
in your mind, getting closer to sorting this issue out
as far as finding out how you got your concussion,
how long it's going to last. As medical up now
with what's going on in concussion, they have a long
(14:01):
way to go or.
Speaker 7 (14:03):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's certainly forward and I
think New Zealand Rugby has been very proactive and assessment
of concussion and management of that, and it's doing a
lot of research programs and is mostly doing more than
most other sports are doing New Zealand and certainly people
can get head injuries and sort of roller blading and
(14:24):
ice hockey and things like that where there's no research
going on. The finger gets pointed at rugby the whole time,
but ironically it's the sport that's doing the most to
try and make their sport safest than the other sports
can learn from the information clean there. So I think,
you know, there's a lot of research done by sporting
bodies and by medical bodies, and we're trying to make
the game as safe as we possibly can need.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
For the TMO, we've got the breakdown on Sports Talk.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
News Talk.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
And doctor John Mayhew, former All Baked Team doctor, talking
about concussion and talking about the protocols, the testing, how
they came up with the standard pragmatic standdown period even
though it doesn't apply to all, but they've got to
do something. I'd say it's paying lip service to the
(15:17):
issue because that's unfair. It's recognized now, it is policed,
and there are conditions in place in order to help
the athlete. Very important. Is it working? Are the concussion
protocols working and the players maybe rely too much on
(15:42):
them to think that it's done because Tom Robinson's case,
he's like, you know, I even felt like I was
fully over my concussion even though the testill said I was,
it was still not working for me. So I'm going
to feign injury so I don't get picked because I
don't want to play on that wider story. This is
(16:06):
self policing to a degree, is it not? And this
is something that rugby players at a club level have
to really take on board. They're the ones who've got
to look after himself because there ain't no doctors or
replay cameras or stand down pairing any of that. Right,
You've got to look after yourself. So you've got to
self police and you've got to recognize when there is issues.
(16:27):
But for this guy Tom Robinson to confess to that,
which must have been very tough for him to do,
he should be celebrated as a prime example of the
right decision to make, not being told what to do
because of various protocols, so on and so forth, but
(16:48):
understanding within yourself this is not right. And even though
I love the game, I want to be an all Black,
I can't get back because this is not right. And
I think the more people talk about that, the better
it is because people will make their own decisions. The
concussion protocol are working form me to a degree that
(17:08):
it has no longer been swept under the rug, and
it can't be anymore. But the one size fits all.
It's impossible to have a one size fits all with concussion.
I think that's what we've learned, and that's what John
was saying before. You can't rely on that protocol, but
(17:30):
at least there's something in place, right, so it's better
than nothing. You like me, do you flinch and grimace
when you see someone get sconned and it's missed. He
sees someone get sconded in their back on the field
again after being out cold twelve days later. This is
(17:51):
the only framework that they've got. I'm not entirely sure
if it works. Granted, better than nothing, but maybe relied
on too much by the players. Self policing's probably the
best thing to do. Look after your own mogan from
(18:14):
a viewer's perspective, because of plain you, we don't play
at that level. None of us really are. Unless you
are an All Black and you're listening thanks for your time,
or a super rugby player from our comfortable lounge chairs
of the grandstand. Are the concussion protocols working for you?
Is it fair and right? Do you think that NZ
(18:36):
World Rugby are handling this in the right way and
it is a movable feast? Do you feel as a
fan that the concussion protocols are working and they're doing
good things for the game? At eight one hundred eighty
ten eighty, that's the number to call. Fascinated on people
(18:59):
and teams as well, and how much self policing has
done at a lower level with teammates. Hey, bro, you
took a right white then mate, you might want to
go and set out I'm not come back next week.
That Does that happen? Or is there still a matto
culture that bubbles under the surface. You can't get away
(19:20):
with it at NPC Super and international level, but you
can at that next level down this where most people play.
Tom Robinson was too freaked out to confess that he's
actually really worried, so he feigned another injury. So there's
still this matro stuff going on. Does it still happen
at a club level? So much to discuss, But concussion
(19:43):
protocols do they work? Let us know? Twenty six minutes
after seven as his News talks eb.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Forget the riff's call, You make a call on sports
Talk on your home of sports his talks my.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Subtle producer Andy twenty nine after seven, Sports or care
and newstalks you be on a Thursday night. Oh eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty lines are open. A couple
of threads on this on concussion? Are the concussion protocols
working at that top level and the lower level down?
How self policed is the game you're playing? Do you
actually pay any attention to what's going on?
Speaker 7 (20:33):
You?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Have you learned anything?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Do you care?
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Good? Jimmy, how are you?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Little boss?
Speaker 10 (20:38):
Tell you?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, not so bad? What's on your mind?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Well?
Speaker 10 (20:42):
Look, man, you know I love my rugby. However, I
think that the concussion protocols as they stand at the moment,
they're just They're potentially never going to be enough. I
think the unions NED are doing their best. However, last
time I read about this, and to some degree of debts,
my understanding is that once you've had one concussion, that's
(21:05):
three times easier to get another. And I understand the
specialist say that if you've had a concussion once, you
should arguably never get back into the game. And so
I've had three concussions, and so presumably, like with regards
what I did before, by extrapolation, I's potentially six to
(21:26):
nine times easier for me to get a concussion that
that makes any sense. So I'm not sure the protocols
is going to be enough, unfortunately. And all I know
is that a lot of my friends and I like,
I went to three different schools, so I've got a
lot of friends to play rugby. Almost all of them
from memory don't want their kids playing the game because
it just jepardizes everything else in life. You get a
(21:48):
concussion now, So I don't want to be negative. I
love the physicality.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Hey how old are you, Jimmy?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
How long?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
When when did you stop?
Speaker 10 (21:58):
Oh? I stopped years ago. I'm forty. But a lot
of my mates played up until quite recently. But there's
also a longitudinal out into it. You know, you don't
really know how bad it is until you know, sometimes
several years afterwards, when you can look back and assess
yourself and look back on certain scenarios and circumstances, think slip,
(22:19):
you know, my impulse control was compromised or academically A
suffered a bit, or my relationship suffered a bit, but
not until you look back, you know, a few years later.
And so I think it's very hard to assess. And
as I keep saying, a lot of the game, I
really enjoy rug Peaza, but it's a brilliant game, but
man like people are suffering playing it. And I don't
(22:41):
have pets, but my friends do, and most of them
so they wouldn't you know that they discourage their kids
from playing it. Unfortunately, How are.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
You, Jimmy, in the fullness of time, when you look
back at what you did, your decision to walk away,
are you carrying any effects? Did you get away scott free?
Do you fear the future?
Speaker 10 (22:59):
Well, it's very hard to Its very hard to assess
that because I have my first clanger of a concussion
when I playing down here in Canterbury at high school,
and nobody ever checked up on me. And I had
it so long that I all, I I just didn't
remember the latter half of the game or the bus
right home. But I'm not embittered that people didn't check up,
(23:19):
because you just didn't check up on people back then.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Well, it wasn't the dumb thing was it have some
smelling salts and get on with it.
Speaker 10 (23:26):
Yeah, but I man, I couldn't remember it, probably an hour,
hour and a half. I remember coming to specifically remember
coming to when we all went to Macs afterwards. But
I remember that getting to macus from the game from
the paddic that was played on took a long time.
And I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Any of that.
Speaker 10 (23:43):
I don't remember the latter half the game. And then
a few years later I had a couple more doing
other things, surfing and stuff, and so only.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The one, only the one rugby related one, but a
couple more just general smacking your head in, but only
the one rugby one. But you felt that build.
Speaker 10 (24:01):
Yeah, it didn't take much. I had a compounding effect.
That's the word I was looking for, compounding, And so
the accumulated effects of like you know, two or three
or maybe four. And I look back on a couple
of situations in my life, and I take responsibility for myself,
but I look back on a couple of scenarios in
my life where like I just didn't have them past
control and I flipped out at people or things like that,
(24:24):
and yeah, I strongly suspect that it's attributable to the
to the concussions I had. But you know, I don't
want to be a two for no.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
No, Jimmy, I don't. I think people are well aware
of that now and the last ten fifteen years has
become very very focused for a lot of people that
they still don't want to go right from the blank
the game they love so much. There has to be
protocols in place to try and assist. But in essence
and what you're saying and what we heard from Tom Robinson,
(24:55):
it has to be self policed. You've got the signs,
you're well aware of the danger. It's up to you
to make that call. And he was hiding behind faked
injuries because he didn't want to let people down. Is
that still an attitude within club rugby because to me,
club and school rugby, this is where it is essential
that it's looked at because you've got no one else
(25:16):
looking after you, have you No.
Speaker 10 (25:20):
I think that it's well, it's very hard to self
assess if you've had a concussion and it's impairing your
judgment in every other way. I think self assessment is
a bit of a myth to be honest, Well.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
What about your teammates. Hey, you took a real big
whack there. We saw it. We watched the com You
need to just walk, you know what I mean. So
it's it's a group thing more than just like any right,
just get up, which is what it used to be.
Speaker 10 (25:39):
Like, Oh yeah, I think that, like you can't rely
on people that aren't specialists to assess you for you.
And also I've had guys say to me, oh, you know,
I missed the camaraderie and all the rest of it.
And so they'll they'll get back into playing quite quickly
because they love the camaraderie and the community feel of
it and the heroism and all that. And that's fair enough.
(26:02):
But I think there's a lot of accidental coercion going on.
Na I think that people kind of kind of coerced
into it by default, not because if anyone's being cruel
or anything, just because you know, they want to be
a part.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Of the boys, you know, and part of the team.
Speaker 10 (26:17):
And I think, yeah, I just think self assessments, you know,
it's very hard, like you know, subjectively, it's very hard
to subjectively your gauge where you're at. So you don't
have criteria and stuff in front of you necessarily, so
maybe there'll be an application one day on a cell
phone or something.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And then Jim mean, thanks very much for your call,
great call, Thanks so much. When I'm pushing out there
with that self assessment saying, hey, I've got something. I
hit my I don't feel I need to now go
and see someone about this, not relying, not waiting to
completely wiped out before you do something, be cognizant of
(26:56):
the fact you've had a head knock, or your teammates
and said, mate, you've taken a big one. Maybe go
and see someone and helping each other out like that
and not rolling with the I should be right, mate,
hard enough, get in there where you be fine, come
and play with the boys, because that kind of encouragement
doesn't help anyone. You need the ability as a player
(27:18):
to be vulnerable and to accept what others are saying,
and yet don't work it out yourself. Go and see someone.
They'll explain what's going on. I go on myself. Scott
Carter was brilliant. Anyway. Let's say I go back to
the text speaking of macho and vanity. Should the use
of headgear be much more widely accepted or is it
(27:38):
not particularly effective at present preventing head injury? From all
I know I've talked about and read about, it's not
effective at all. It's it's a situation they use to
prevent cuts and necks and slices more than anything. It
(27:58):
is not It won't stop the effect of your brain
bouncing around in your skull or in my case, which
was not rugby, when I belted my head standing straight
up into a doorframe. Yeah, very small doorframe. I'm not
that tall. It was a spinal issue. Spinal column got tweaked,
(28:22):
so I no. He gear looks after you, so you
still look pretty, but it doesn't do anything around avoiding headgear?
Am I on the right track here? You're a rugby player?
Do you think we've come to a situation now that
that people are vulnerable enough to go? I don't know
if I'm right here and teammates are like, hey, you
need to do something? Is that is that a movement?
Do you think within the game? Oh eight and eighty
(28:44):
ten eighty you love to hear you though it was
twenty two minutes away from eight o'clock, David Choke still
to comes to talk. All whites of football before the
end of the show's news I'm nothing, severnybody one, David
(29:06):
Choke just around the corner form We're all white talking
qualifying up against Vanowatu with Hamilton tomorrow and the magic
that is Chris Wood. Where where does he sit in
the stratosphere of sporting stars, of all white footballers. It's
got to be right up there, doesn't it? Absolute superstar.
(29:27):
So many reasons. A couple of texts. The rugby ref
blue card is a way of independently deciding if a
player needs to rest or note. The more I read
and the more I look at this with Tom Robinson,
the more it says to me, even though the best
(29:49):
intentions are there and they have to be from world rugby,
from his hell on rugby, and they have acted on
it as opposed to ignoring it and pushing under the
carpet that had for so long, it's still comes down
to the individual. Tom Robinson, professional rugby player playing the Blues,
(30:10):
captain for the Blues. He had all the help in
the world, everything he needed, the people watching it, the
meadows behind him, his teammates and the like as well.
Like up to captain in twenty twenty one, of the
Blues like behind Buddy toil Polutu. But even him with
(30:31):
all of that help, knew there was something not right.
Even though he technically wasn't concussed and he was healed.
Through that, he was saying things along the line. This
is through the story. He was getting stars in his vision,
he wasn't doing contact, still getting them, and he just
(30:56):
didn't know what to do. And he felt that the
only way he could deal with this was to fake
injury so he didn't have to play pull out of
games because even though he was told it's okay, personally
he might this is not right. So it does come
down to this personal responsibility to self policing. It doesn't
(31:19):
matter how much help you have and how many experts
are engaged in that, it's still the gray matter is
a gray area, and the more you get, the more
you could possibly get. Not enough as known about it,
So that's one to go back. The protocols in place
are very important. The fact that the rugby world and
(31:41):
the general public are waking up so that you cannot
mess with concussion is fantastic, But in essence, it comes
down to you. You help you seven forty four more
texts I've lost count of how many times I got
(32:01):
knocked out playing club rugby. If you went off, you
were given a saucer of milk, some smelling salts and
back into it. I've got a few texts like that,
Oh back in the day, smelling salts and it's our
first quarter. Said you don't know how this is going
to affect you know for how long? You might be
forty five? And said it, say, whoa, what on earth happened?
(32:22):
You might be thirty five? As we're seeing, that's the
way things going. There will be no tackling above waist height.
And this goes for league and rugby. This will happen
in a matter of time. Is the illegal repercussions will
force this. That won't stop concussion full stop, though, will it.
(32:43):
You get tackled, your head belts on the ground can
cust Accidental looks, stray boot can cust It's a risk
you've got to take if you're keen on playing the game.
Seven forty five. This is sports stock on the news talks,
he'd be let's talk some football.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, you hear it from the biggest names and sports
and men. Have your say on eighty sports talk or
home of sports news talks at me.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Let's talk all white football and nowt World Cup qualification.
David choked from All White Joins US. Now, David, is
my suggestion just give the all whites the points. It
will save everyone a lot of time and money. Is
that a cruel thing to say and welcome?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, it's probably pretty accurate.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, I'm torn really because it's a chance, I suppose
for the Island nations to get on their biggest stage.
But for the All Whites it's sort of a bit
of a non event in terms of quality of opposition.
They are head and shoulders better and they should cruise
through this part of qualification.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
But in saying that it's a ticket to the big dance,
isn't it?
Speaker 4 (33:47):
So they are not meaningless matches, but they are matches
that the All Whites should absolutely win and win.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Well, well, let's take another view. How about this for review?
It is a stacked all white side. They're playing at home.
What a chance we will to go and see these guys,
see their heroes on their way to a World Cup.
So there's a positive for you, Tody.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
And look, the All Whites now consist of players who
are applying their trade in good leagues around the world.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So these guys are good.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
They are players that are proving themselves at international level,
none more so than obviously Chris Wood. But sprinkle around
him in top leagues around the world now are his teammates.
So it is a chance to see good footballers play
football at home. And that's a mouth warding opportunity really
to see. As you say, for the young football community,
(34:39):
the young sporting community, a chance to see their heroes
in real life.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Also great opportunity and you can't brush over this. For
Darren Bazy to actually work with his top team. We're
sentially his top team after dragging them from all four
points of the planet together and then setting them down
and go right, this is what we have to do
because that's his lot, isn't it. That's what Darren Bazy
has to deal with on a monthly, weekly and daily basis.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Well, look, to be honest, he's sort of slipwalkers into
this job.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
In some ways. It was a job that was advertised
that he stepped.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Into an interim way has now made it his own.
He gets a chance to put his stamp on it.
And that's what Rob be interested to see can he
get this All White side playing a brand of football
that's not only winning football, but easy on the eye,
because as we know, football has sort of revolutionized itself
over the last few years, playing out from the back,
(35:30):
keeping the ball on the ground, keeping those skillful players
actively involved in the game, and that's what we want
to see.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
I was a big fan of the old Hoff it
up the middle and that was a great part of Ford.
So what are you expecting from bas what expecting from
the side, What do you want to see put in place?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
David Choke Well, exactly as I spoke about.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
If you think about the Wellington Phoenix, their success was
based around playing last season, playing a brand of football
that was good to watch and keeps the ball sort
of recycling and moving. That's what you want to see
the All Whiteside dominate possession, create chances or plenty of goals,
and they should get an opportunity to do that and
actually put a stamp on the way they're going to play,
(36:13):
because there'll be plenty of opportunity later on in this
tournament to see them playing insides who are better than them.
But they go in a strong favorites. They need to
really dictate how this game is going to go.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
There's been a lot, sorry, there's been a lot made
recently of Chris Wood. His achievements again this time at
the top level EPL and what he's done astonishing, and
he still keeps coming back to New Zealand. I think
that commitment when you consider the flight, I don't care
if your first class or not. It's horrible. He goes
(36:44):
back and forth and back and forth and back and
forth because he loves playing for his country. I mean,
that's a hero for New Zealand sport, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
He is a champion, There's no question about it.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
I don't use that lightly for Christwood because he's never
turned down the opportunity to play for his country. He
turns out and gives his best every time. He'd be
well within his rights to all the odd injury and
roll himself out of some of these hams, but he
doesn't do so. He makes himself available and he looks
like the kind of guy who's proud to represent his country,
which is a terrific thing when these games are a
(37:18):
little bit sort of one sided. But he is a
fantastic player. His numbers are phenomenal in the Premier League.
I'm not sure people realize just how good Chris Wood
has proved himself to be, because you know, he's an
old fashioned center forward in many ways, but he's at
the top of his game, playing in the best league
in the world, you would argue with the Premier League,
(37:38):
and scoring goals regularly. So Chris Wood for me, is
an absolute champion.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Well that's with the price of admission. Go along and
watch that guy play, because you see him on the screen,
you see him in the EPO, you see what he does.
He picks up awards, he scores goals, and why wouldn't
you go there and watch that? Because he would be
up and what the top handful of players to ever
played for the all Whites, the likes of Winton, Ruthers
(38:04):
and who else did you throw him up there with?
Speaker 4 (38:08):
You'd absolutely have him up there with Ruthor who Winton
was no doubt our best player, player of the century
in the last century. But Chris Wood, when he finishes playing,
I think, will reflect on a career that is equal,
if not all surpass Winton in terms of goals at
the top level.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
And that's what he's paid to do. Score goals.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
He has scored goals wherever he's gone and performed at
the top of his game. Not only would it be
good to watch on the field, he's the kind of
guy who'll hang around and sign the autographs and do
the selfies. He looks to me like, as I said,
just an absolute champion.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Alan's got left in the top leagues over in Britain.
How long could he to last?
Speaker 4 (38:48):
For Well's I think he's got two or three seasons
left in him and he'll be working hard to get
another contract beyond his current one with Forest, because he
will come to the end of his run at sometime.
But he looks like he keeps himself in good nick.
He lives a good lifestyle. By the looks of me,
he's not burning out and at the moment he's in
rude form.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
He is in great nick in this case.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
So I suppose feed him and see what happens. He
described them before David showed as a traditional an old
school center fork. Could you explain that to people who
maybe aren't that o fay with what that actually means?
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Like me, Well, he's a big man. He'll play right
up the middle of the park. He'll be on the
end of all sorts of crosses. He's not the kind
of player that you'd say is clever with his feet,
but he knows where the goal is. He'll hit it
off left or right. He's a finisher, so his goals
will be scored from sort of in around the box generally,
(39:44):
although I saw him get one from outside a week
or two back in the Premier League, so's it's not
that he's not capable of scoring those sort of worldies,
but he will finish all chances and he walks work
as socks off. He will workers right around the park.
The modern game has the smaller player able to sort
of apply their craft to the game. Chris Wood is
old fashioned in the sense that he's a target man
(40:06):
style of striker.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
One last thing, I know what I want to see
it of this match, plainly a victory or well owned one,
but no one broken, right Is that simple?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah? Correct?
Speaker 4 (40:17):
You want to get through these matches and send them
back to their clubs in good neck because that's important
as well. They should, I think, use their players intelligently
so when they've got themselves in front, maybe there will
be a chance to give other players a run.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
They've got two games they should win, and I've got
to say, I don't know if you knew the starts,
but I've got a nephew playing for Samoa in the
second game, so I'll be torn one o the support
my nephew, and I'll have to I have to go.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
With your Whites obviously for the win. So it's a
fantastic weekend.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
But young Harry Choate will be playing for Samoa, so
you'll hear the Choke name, but it won't be in
an all white should it will be in the blue
of sam Aady.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
It's David Choke. They're talking about family and of course
he's going to support his family. Blood is thicker than
passport paper. We know this. That game tomorrow is seven
thirty and Hamilton all whites out of their World Cup
qualifying drive. It is seven point fifty three. Mike Tyson
up next. Nah, I'm not interviewing him. We just pinned
(41:16):
some audio out yesterday four thirds A Sports Talk Mike
Tyson and Jake Paul are gonna go hammer and tongs
on Sunday on Netflix. Here's Mike himself after an open workouts.
Speaker 11 (41:32):
I'm tougher than I believe I was. When I agreed
to this faith and I started training, I said what
the fuck am I thinking of? And I finished the
process and now the faith, the faith, the party, all
the hard work is done.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Said that once again, please, what.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Does it mean to have family with you?
Speaker 11 (41:51):
Well, if the family's everything but my kids, to my children,
I'm nobody. And then but that night they're going to
find out their father's for every.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Special who is he want? Look at the tapes? I
want to see I want to see him walk into
the ring with the white tunic with nothing on it,
and when he removes that the black trunks and the
little black boots, classic Tyson for Math in the day
when he was a real weapon. And you Duff, thanks
for producing the program, and thanks very much for well View.
(42:23):
For taking a listen Marcus slices up next to his
news talks. He'd be good.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Evening for more from sports talk. Listen live to News Talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Good anything.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Welcome into Thursday, although it's been here for quite some time.
If you have just worked out what day it is,
what a sleepy you are? Seven minutes up to seven
Thursday Night, fourteenth November twenty twenty four high. My name's
Darcy wart to Grave in my host from now through
to eight o'clock. We talk sports in the name now,
isn't it sports Talk? And when I say we, I
mean me and a couple of my guests and you.
(01:14):
Oh eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty free phone
number nationwide. Connect. Let your voice and your opinion be
heard on the wireless. I'd love to talk to you.
Nineteen nine two. If you're a bit shy ficks text
standard text charge well applied, you call me. It's nothing,
it's free entertainment. Are we going to be talk about
concussion tonight? In the wake of the the curious story
(01:39):
of Tom Robinson fearing an All Blacks call up after
many concussions. It's turn everything about on its backside. It's
a very strange tale. There's probably some lessons in there
as well. We're going to talk about concussion and about
the reaction to that from players at a number of
(02:00):
levels at degrees of concussion. So much to talk about
their former All Black team. Doctor John Mayhew whill be
joining us shortly to discuss that curious story tomorrow. Are
the All Whites carrying on with their drive to qualify
for the World Cup. That's not the big story. The
huge stories of what if they don't and that won't happen,
They'll be fine. What in their crosshairs? That is coming
(02:24):
up in Hamilton tomorrow evening and we'll be joined by
former White international David Choate as we take a look
at the team, what they're trying to do, the shape
of the side, the contribution of the coach and how
much work he has to do, and of course the
phenomenon that is Chris Wood. What a freak show and
(02:47):
the nicest possible way I might have. That's our master plan.
Please get involved. I'd love to hear from you. This
is news Stork's heb nine after seven.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Let's start now Sport Today and.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
It Sport Today. Former KIMI coach Frank Endicott believes the
inner our expansion team in christ will be a partnership
and it won't be between the Orcas and the Keya.
So he's keen to be the other party because the
Anti christ Church needs leg But I got to say, Frank, well,
I really don't think the NRL are interested. I mean,
(03:19):
how many ways do they have to say no?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Hold on? Maybe they could front up and say no,
that's a good idea.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
I can't see the Orcers going along with the Keres,
so that puts us in a good position.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
To go with one or the other.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
If we have to go alone, we will. But I
see it a major advantage to us to amalgamate with
another party for the good of the city.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Indeed, Michael Bracewall can see a light at the end
of the tunnel, the tunnel where the black Caps rolled
their car overnight and they were thumped. But there were lessons,
weren't they, beast I'm sure they were.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
The experiences that you get in this part of the world,
obviously very different conditions for what we face back home
in New Zealand, and those experiences you bank and you
learn from and hopefully they've become better.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Over fifty golf centersation, Stephen Elk gave up, the relentless
self flagellation, and it's actually worked.
Speaker 7 (04:13):
I used to beat myself up a little bit trying
to work on the game and get better, and you
know I don't do that as much now.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
That's one big thing that helps.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I think I've matured at fifty.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And Clark laid Law Hurricanes over lord reckons that sevens
at rugby will be just the tonic for the likes
of Oli Metha So missed out on a super contract
this year.
Speaker 8 (04:33):
There's travel, and there's pressure, and there's sixty thousand Olympics
rather than just playing maybe club rugby or under twenty tournament.
It's not the solution to everything, and it's not for everybody.
Think of Oli Mathisen floating around, how good would he
be at sevens? That would help him be ready for fifteens?
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Of course it will.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
It'd be extraordinary in sevens and.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That's sport today now.
Speaker 9 (04:53):
The kickout to them Roberts, he put it right on
the budget, got a nice little role.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Looking at it, he's he's bugget.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Tom beautifully described. He's buggered and what a chap he
is as well, lovely man and he's walked away from
the game that he loved that he almost reached the
top of but something wasn't right. Tom Robinson, former blues Ford,
former Blues skipper, has talked about his fear of an
(05:30):
international call up. This is a massive guy, arguably a
cult figure in the game. Like nearly two meters tall
masses of red hair. Had all the fun he could
and he could play it. He was a half man
when he played. But on social media last month agoing
you know that's it, I'm retiring. I'm out now. Just
recently he's come out to go well, I was actually
(05:52):
faking injuries because I was terrified of my concussion. I
didn't want to be picked for the All Blacks, a
dream I've had all my life. It scared me to
think I'd be in that contact zone. So I feigned
some injury in order to not be selected. Basically quite
the about face from previous times were joined now by
doctor John Mayhew from an All Blacks team. Doctor worries
(06:13):
as well. I might add to talk about Tom Robinson
retiring and what he released to us a few days
ago on social media. Welcome to the show, John, I trust.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You well very well. Thank you. Darsin.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
This is a curious case, isn't it Tom Robinson coming
out and saying, look, I faked injury so I didn't
get selected for the All Blacks. And this is all
under the fog of concussion that he experienced. He didn't
want to go any further. I've never heard of this before.
What about yourself? Normally they say I'm not injured so
(06:48):
they can carry on playing. This is quite the turn up, isn't.
Speaker 7 (06:50):
It It is? I think you did right there. And
I've had a number of players who have had several
head injuries and then made decisions early in their career
to stop playing football. But they've done that quite publicly
and saying, look, I've had two or three concussions twenty one,
twenty two. I'm concerned they'll be long term problems, and
(07:11):
I'm going to cut my losses now. And that's made
It's probably quite an intelligent, rational decision. What I find
quite unusual here as the player was hiding that he
was worried about head injury and avoiding playing, but without
telling people and the reason why he was avoiding playing.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
So it's a bit.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
Unusual, and hopefully he's made a full recovery from his
head injuries, and he's possibly made a very wise decision
to avoid further injury and get on with his life
in other areas, and not so for the consequences of
repeated head injury. But the mystery is, you know why
he felt that he couldn't discuss that with his medical
(07:50):
advisors or coaches, and I had to pretend he was
injured to avoid selection.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Another story that I won't say will put the frighteners
up people, but again, it brings awareness to the nature
of head injury. I see it as being positive that
he's done this, not a negative. But maybe that's what
he is thinking. Not that we can tell anyone what
he was thinking, because we simply don't know. But this
is a good news story, you think.
Speaker 7 (08:18):
Yeah, I think it is. I mean, I mean, there's
a number of players I've dealt with over the last
three or four years who've decided to retire because of
you know, what they deem as frequent head injuries, and
you know, fortunately most of them are not brain damage
to any extent, but they're concerned about the future. And
these are often young graduates, you know, who've got other
careers ahead of them, and they've made a decision to say, well, okay,
(08:41):
I'm going to decrease the odds of further damage by
not playing. And I think that's a very acceptable and
very wise thing to do. When they do that, you know,
quite publicly, I'm disappointed that, you know, a player like
this felt that he couldn't be honest with his coaching staff,
medical staff and say, look, you know, I don't want
to play because I'm worried about heat injury, and I
(09:03):
think it may be best that I don't carry on playing,
and that'll be the way to do it. And I
think in twenty twenty four, you know, we're much more
aware of the dangers of head injury. And it's certainly
except all we've gone past that Marcho phase of you know,
play on you know if you can sort of thing,
and I think it's a wise thing to do. So
(09:23):
I applaud him for doing what he's doing, but it's
a shame that he felt that he had to sort
of do it in a surreptitious sort of way.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Dr John Mayhew joining the program. Back in the day,
people would hide injury so they would get selected. How
in this day and a difficult is it to hide
something like head injury. It's blanket covered. Everyone's very very
well aware of concussion of head knocks, of how players
are affected. They've got video. But is it an easy
(09:52):
enough thing to mask? I don't know why you would
it easy enough to mask in this day and age.
Speaker 7 (09:57):
Well, it's certainly at the professional level now it's pretty
hard to get away with a player playing with head
injury because there are protocols in place or the training
games of videos, so it's very hard to avoid you know,
that are being diagnosed with a head injury. So I
think that's unlikely. I mean certainly at lower levels or
training where there's no video assessment and things like that,
(10:20):
injuries can occur. And often I still see patients who say, look,
I felt good at the game, but you know later
on I had a headache, and then you go through
the tape and you find that you know they may
have had a head injury and you're dealt with accordingly.
But I think at the professional level now players don't
try to hide head injury. It's certainly at lower levels
(10:44):
and even worse at visiting rugby levels, players sometimes try
to hide things and unfortunately, sometimes the appearance and coaches,
you know, go along with it as.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well, there is a standard standdown period for players, but
I'm presuming that head injury takes on and concussion a
number of different forms, So to have a blanket stand
down period is that idea? Is that accurate? Does that
work for you the average rugby play, not even your
average bloke.
Speaker 7 (11:15):
What you're saying is definitely correct that I was in
a working party with acc and we came up with
some guidelines for non professional sportsmen across all the sporting codes,
and we came up with a minimum of three weeks
standout if anyone suffers a head injury and then they
needed to be cleared by a medical professional, a doctor,
(11:35):
not a physio. Now that what we've got to deal
with HEREDC is it's very hard for the average sportsmen
to get in to see a doctor, to get access
to all these neuropsychometric testing. So we made a pragmatic
decision which is the best for all concerned. And what
we're trying to say there that if you have a
head injury, it's going to be a minimum of three weeks.
(11:56):
You're then going to have a conversation with a medical
professional who assesses you and decides whether you can return
to play or not. So it's not ideal, I quite agree,
but it's the best option we've got at the moment.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So with the coverage that they get and the attention
to detail that all blacks get, this standdown period is
good because it is carried on with afterwards. They carry
on monitoring this. But for your average Joe, just tell
someone says you're okay, don't Yeah.
Speaker 7 (12:27):
Basically, you know, you've got to think the realistic thing.
There's thousands of young footballers and rugby league players that
play every weekend and there's no way that every of
them can be accessed to the level that all blacks
and professional players can be. So there had to be
a practical solution which did the most good for the
most people. Most head injuries across the board resolve in
(12:50):
seven to ten days, hence the eleven days stand down
the professional game as a minimum, but some will last longer,
some will last less than that, so we've had to
come up with a pragmatic and practical solution. It's by
no means perfect, and there'll be a small subgroup of players.
You'll need a long longer period of time off or
as we discussed earlier, it may need to give up
(13:11):
playing contact sport completely.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
And there's a number of different ways to be concussed.
I've experienced myself with the spinal compression that I had,
but as a blow to their head, it's just spine.
There's a number of different ways you can bring concussion
on yet.
Speaker 7 (13:25):
Yeah, exactly, but the end of the day, the cause
of the cocassion that is transient damage to the neur range,
to the brain cells and the brain cells in a way,
if they're damaged, it doesn't really matter the exact mechanism,
the damage is done, and then we have to deal
with that.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Dr John Mayhewn just before we go, the technology, the
advance and understanding around concussion not full proof yet, but
in your mind, getting closer to sorting this issue out
as far as finding out how you got your concussion,
how long it's going to last. As medical up now
with what's going on in concussion, they have a long
(14:01):
way to go or.
Speaker 7 (14:03):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's certainly forward and I
think New Zealand Rugby has been very proactive and assessment
of concussion and management of that, and it's doing a
lot of research programs and is mostly doing more than
most other sports are doing New Zealand and certainly people
can get head injuries and sort of roller blading and
(14:24):
ice hockey and things like that where there's no research
going on. The finger gets pointed at rugby the whole time,
but ironically it's the sport that's doing the most to
try and make their sport safest than the other sports
can learn from the information clean there. So I think,
you know, there's a lot of research done by sporting
bodies and by medical bodies, and we're trying to make
the game as safe as we possibly can need.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
For the TMO, we've got the breakdown on Sports Talk.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
News Talk.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
And doctor John Mayhew, former All Baked Team doctor, talking
about concussion and talking about the protocols, the testing, how
they came up with the standard pragmatic standdown period even
though it doesn't apply to all, but they've got to
do something. I'd say it's paying lip service to the
(15:17):
issue because that's unfair. It's recognized now, it is policed,
and there are conditions in place in order to help
the athlete. Very important. Is it working? Are the concussion
protocols working and the players maybe rely too much on
(15:42):
them to think that it's done because Tom Robinson's case,
he's like, you know, I even felt like I was
fully over my concussion even though the testill said I was,
it was still not working for me. So I'm going
to feign injury so I don't get picked because I
don't want to play on that wider story. This is
(16:06):
self policing to a degree, is it not? And this
is something that rugby players at a club level have
to really take on board. They're the ones who've got
to look after himself because there ain't no doctors or
replay cameras or stand down pairing any of that. Right,
You've got to look after yourself. So you've got to
self police and you've got to recognize when there is issues.
(16:27):
But for this guy Tom Robinson to confess to that,
which must have been very tough for him to do,
he should be celebrated as a prime example of the
right decision to make, not being told what to do
because of various protocols, so on and so forth, but
(16:48):
understanding within yourself this is not right. And even though
I love the game, I want to be an all Black,
I can't get back because this is not right. And
I think the more people talk about that, the better
it is because people will make their own decisions. The
concussion protocol are working form me to a degree that
(17:08):
it has no longer been swept under the rug, and
it can't be anymore. But the one size fits all.
It's impossible to have a one size fits all with concussion.
I think that's what we've learned, and that's what John
was saying before. You can't rely on that protocol, but
(17:30):
at least there's something in place, right, so it's better
than nothing. You like me, do you flinch and grimace
when you see someone get sconned and it's missed. He
sees someone get sconded in their back on the field
again after being out cold twelve days later. This is
(17:51):
the only framework that they've got. I'm not entirely sure
if it works. Granted, better than nothing, but maybe relied
on too much by the players. Self policing's probably the
best thing to do. Look after your own mogan from
(18:14):
a viewer's perspective, because of plain you, we don't play
at that level. None of us really are. Unless you
are an All Black and you're listening thanks for your time,
or a super rugby player from our comfortable lounge chairs
of the grandstand. Are the concussion protocols working for you?
Is it fair and right? Do you think that NZ
(18:36):
World Rugby are handling this in the right way and
it is a movable feast? Do you feel as a
fan that the concussion protocols are working and they're doing
good things for the game? At eight one hundred eighty
ten eighty, that's the number to call. Fascinated on people
(18:59):
and teams as well, and how much self policing has
done at a lower level with teammates. Hey, bro, you
took a right white then mate, you might want to
go and set out I'm not come back next week.
That Does that happen? Or is there still a matto
culture that bubbles under the surface. You can't get away
(19:20):
with it at NPC Super and international level, but you
can at that next level down this where most people play.
Tom Robinson was too freaked out to confess that he's
actually really worried, so he feigned another injury. So there's
still this matro stuff going on. Does it still happen
at a club level? So much to discuss, But concussion
(19:43):
protocols do they work? Let us know? Twenty six minutes
after seven as his News talks eb.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Forget the riff's call, You make a call on sports
Talk on your home of sports his talks my.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Subtle producer Andy twenty nine after seven, Sports or care
and newstalks you be on a Thursday night. Oh eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty lines are open. A couple
of threads on this on concussion? Are the concussion protocols
working at that top level and the lower level down?
How self policed is the game you're playing? Do you
actually pay any attention to what's going on?
Speaker 7 (20:33):
You?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Have you learned anything?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Do you care?
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Good? Jimmy, how are you?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Little boss?
Speaker 10 (20:38):
Tell you?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, not so bad? What's on your mind?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Well?
Speaker 10 (20:42):
Look, man, you know I love my rugby. However, I
think that the concussion protocols as they stand at the moment,
they're just They're potentially never going to be enough. I
think the unions NED are doing their best. However, last
time I read about this, and to some degree of debts,
my understanding is that once you've had one concussion, that's
(21:05):
three times easier to get another. And I understand the
specialist say that if you've had a concussion once, you
should arguably never get back into the game. And so
I've had three concussions, and so presumably, like with regards
what I did before, by extrapolation, I's potentially six to
(21:26):
nine times easier for me to get a concussion that
that makes any sense. So I'm not sure the protocols
is going to be enough, unfortunately. And all I know
is that a lot of my friends and I like,
I went to three different schools, so I've got a
lot of friends to play rugby. Almost all of them
from memory don't want their kids playing the game because
it just jepardizes everything else in life. You get a
(21:48):
concussion now, So I don't want to be negative. I
love the physicality.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Hey how old are you, Jimmy?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
How long?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
When when did you stop?
Speaker 10 (21:58):
Oh? I stopped years ago. I'm forty. But a lot
of my mates played up until quite recently. But there's
also a longitudinal out into it. You know, you don't
really know how bad it is until you know, sometimes
several years afterwards, when you can look back and assess
yourself and look back on certain scenarios and circumstances, think slip,
(22:19):
you know, my impulse control was compromised or academically A
suffered a bit, or my relationship suffered a bit, but
not until you look back, you know, a few years later.
And so I think it's very hard to assess. And
as I keep saying, a lot of the game, I
really enjoy rug Peaza, but it's a brilliant game, but
man like people are suffering playing it. And I don't
(22:41):
have pets, but my friends do, and most of them
so they wouldn't you know that they discourage their kids
from playing it. Unfortunately, How are.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
You, Jimmy, in the fullness of time, when you look
back at what you did, your decision to walk away,
are you carrying any effects? Did you get away scott free?
Do you fear the future?
Speaker 10 (22:59):
Well, it's very hard to Its very hard to assess
that because I have my first clanger of a concussion
when I playing down here in Canterbury at high school,
and nobody ever checked up on me. And I had
it so long that I all, I I just didn't
remember the latter half of the game or the bus
right home. But I'm not embittered that people didn't check up,
(23:19):
because you just didn't check up on people back then.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Well, it wasn't the dumb thing was it have some
smelling salts and get on with it.
Speaker 10 (23:26):
Yeah, but I man, I couldn't remember it, probably an hour,
hour and a half. I remember coming to specifically remember
coming to when we all went to Macs afterwards. But
I remember that getting to macus from the game from
the paddic that was played on took a long time.
And I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Any of that.
Speaker 10 (23:43):
I don't remember the latter half the game. And then
a few years later I had a couple more doing
other things, surfing and stuff, and so only.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The one, only the one rugby related one, but a
couple more just general smacking your head in, but only
the one rugby one. But you felt that build.
Speaker 10 (24:01):
Yeah, it didn't take much. I had a compounding effect.
That's the word I was looking for, compounding, And so
the accumulated effects of like you know, two or three
or maybe four. And I look back on a couple
of situations in my life, and I take responsibility for myself,
but I look back on a couple of scenarios in
my life where like I just didn't have them past
control and I flipped out at people or things like that,
(24:24):
and yeah, I strongly suspect that it's attributable to the
to the concussions I had. But you know, I don't
want to be a two for no.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
No, Jimmy, I don't. I think people are well aware
of that now and the last ten fifteen years has
become very very focused for a lot of people that
they still don't want to go right from the blank
the game they love so much. There has to be
protocols in place to try and assist. But in essence
and what you're saying and what we heard from Tom Robinson,
(24:55):
it has to be self policed. You've got the signs,
you're well aware of the danger. It's up to you
to make that call. And he was hiding behind faked
injuries because he didn't want to let people down. Is
that still an attitude within club rugby because to me,
club and school rugby, this is where it is essential
that it's looked at because you've got no one else
(25:16):
looking after you, have you No.
Speaker 10 (25:20):
I think that it's well, it's very hard to self
assess if you've had a concussion and it's impairing your
judgment in every other way. I think self assessment is
a bit of a myth to be honest, Well.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
What about your teammates. Hey, you took a real big
whack there. We saw it. We watched the com You
need to just walk, you know what I mean. So
it's it's a group thing more than just like any right,
just get up, which is what it used to be.
Speaker 10 (25:39):
Like, Oh yeah, I think that, like you can't rely
on people that aren't specialists to assess you for you.
And also I've had guys say to me, oh, you know,
I missed the camaraderie and all the rest of it.
And so they'll they'll get back into playing quite quickly
because they love the camaraderie and the community feel of
it and the heroism and all that. And that's fair enough.
(26:02):
But I think there's a lot of accidental coercion going on.
Na I think that people kind of kind of coerced
into it by default, not because if anyone's being cruel
or anything, just because you know, they want to be
a part.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Of the boys, you know, and part of the team.
Speaker 10 (26:17):
And I think, yeah, I just think self assessments, you know,
it's very hard, like you know, subjectively, it's very hard
to subjectively your gauge where you're at. So you don't
have criteria and stuff in front of you necessarily, so
maybe there'll be an application one day on a cell
phone or something.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And then Jim mean, thanks very much for your call,
great call, Thanks so much. When I'm pushing out there
with that self assessment saying, hey, I've got something. I
hit my I don't feel I need to now go
and see someone about this, not relying, not waiting to
completely wiped out before you do something, be cognizant of
(26:56):
the fact you've had a head knock, or your teammates
and said, mate, you've taken a big one. Maybe go
and see someone and helping each other out like that
and not rolling with the I should be right, mate,
hard enough, get in there where you be fine, come
and play with the boys, because that kind of encouragement
doesn't help anyone. You need the ability as a player
(27:18):
to be vulnerable and to accept what others are saying,
and yet don't work it out yourself. Go and see someone.
They'll explain what's going on. I go on myself. Scott
Carter was brilliant. Anyway. Let's say I go back to
the text speaking of macho and vanity. Should the use
of headgear be much more widely accepted or is it
(27:38):
not particularly effective at present preventing head injury? From all
I know I've talked about and read about, it's not
effective at all. It's it's a situation they use to
prevent cuts and necks and slices more than anything. It
(27:58):
is not It won't stop the effect of your brain
bouncing around in your skull or in my case, which
was not rugby, when I belted my head standing straight
up into a doorframe. Yeah, very small doorframe. I'm not
that tall. It was a spinal issue. Spinal column got tweaked,
(28:22):
so I no. He gear looks after you, so you
still look pretty, but it doesn't do anything around avoiding headgear?
Am I on the right track here? You're a rugby player?
Do you think we've come to a situation now that
that people are vulnerable enough to go? I don't know
if I'm right here and teammates are like, hey, you
need to do something? Is that is that a movement?
Do you think within the game? Oh eight and eighty
(28:44):
ten eighty you love to hear you though it was
twenty two minutes away from eight o'clock, David Choke still
to comes to talk. All whites of football before the
end of the show's news I'm nothing, severnybody one, David
(29:06):
Choke just around the corner form We're all white talking
qualifying up against Vanowatu with Hamilton tomorrow and the magic
that is Chris Wood. Where where does he sit in
the stratosphere of sporting stars, of all white footballers. It's
got to be right up there, doesn't it? Absolute superstar.
(29:27):
So many reasons. A couple of texts. The rugby ref
blue card is a way of independently deciding if a
player needs to rest or note. The more I read
and the more I look at this with Tom Robinson,
the more it says to me, even though the best
(29:49):
intentions are there and they have to be from world rugby,
from his hell on rugby, and they have acted on
it as opposed to ignoring it and pushing under the
carpet that had for so long, it's still comes down
to the individual. Tom Robinson, professional rugby player playing the Blues,
(30:10):
captain for the Blues. He had all the help in
the world, everything he needed, the people watching it, the
meadows behind him, his teammates and the like as well.
Like up to captain in twenty twenty one, of the
Blues like behind Buddy toil Polutu. But even him with
(30:31):
all of that help, knew there was something not right.
Even though he technically wasn't concussed and he was healed.
Through that, he was saying things along the line. This
is through the story. He was getting stars in his vision,
he wasn't doing contact, still getting them, and he just
(30:56):
didn't know what to do. And he felt that the
only way he could deal with this was to fake
injury so he didn't have to play pull out of
games because even though he was told it's okay, personally
he might this is not right. So it does come
down to this personal responsibility to self policing. It doesn't
(31:19):
matter how much help you have and how many experts
are engaged in that, it's still the gray matter is
a gray area, and the more you get, the more
you could possibly get. Not enough as known about it,
So that's one to go back. The protocols in place
are very important. The fact that the rugby world and
(31:41):
the general public are waking up so that you cannot
mess with concussion is fantastic, But in essence, it comes
down to you. You help you seven forty four more
texts I've lost count of how many times I got
(32:01):
knocked out playing club rugby. If you went off, you
were given a saucer of milk, some smelling salts and
back into it. I've got a few texts like that,
Oh back in the day, smelling salts and it's our
first quarter. Said you don't know how this is going
to affect you know for how long? You might be
forty five? And said it, say, whoa, what on earth happened?
(32:22):
You might be thirty five? As we're seeing, that's the
way things going. There will be no tackling above waist height.
And this goes for league and rugby. This will happen
in a matter of time. Is the illegal repercussions will
force this. That won't stop concussion full stop, though, will it.
(32:43):
You get tackled, your head belts on the ground can
cust Accidental looks, stray boot can cust It's a risk
you've got to take if you're keen on playing the game.
Seven forty five. This is sports stock on the news talks,
he'd be let's talk some football.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, you hear it from the biggest names and sports
and men. Have your say on eighty sports talk or
home of sports news talks at me.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Let's talk all white football and nowt World Cup qualification.
David choked from All White Joins US. Now, David, is
my suggestion just give the all whites the points. It
will save everyone a lot of time and money. Is
that a cruel thing to say and welcome?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, it's probably pretty accurate.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, I'm torn really because it's a chance, I suppose
for the Island nations to get on their biggest stage.
But for the All Whites it's sort of a bit
of a non event in terms of quality of opposition.
They are head and shoulders better and they should cruise
through this part of qualification.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
But in saying that it's a ticket to the big dance,
isn't it?
Speaker 4 (33:47):
So they are not meaningless matches, but they are matches
that the All Whites should absolutely win and win.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Well, well, let's take another view. How about this for review?
It is a stacked all white side. They're playing at home.
What a chance we will to go and see these guys,
see their heroes on their way to a World Cup.
So there's a positive for you, Tody.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
And look, the All Whites now consist of players who
are applying their trade in good leagues around the world.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So these guys are good.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
They are players that are proving themselves at international level,
none more so than obviously Chris Wood. But sprinkle around
him in top leagues around the world now are his teammates.
So it is a chance to see good footballers play
football at home. And that's a mouth warding opportunity really
to see. As you say, for the young football community,
(34:39):
the young sporting community, a chance to see their heroes
in real life.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Also great opportunity and you can't brush over this. For
Darren Bazy to actually work with his top team. We're
sentially his top team after dragging them from all four
points of the planet together and then setting them down
and go right, this is what we have to do
because that's his lot, isn't it. That's what Darren Bazy
has to deal with on a monthly, weekly and daily basis.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Well, look, to be honest, he's sort of slipwalkers into
this job.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
In some ways. It was a job that was advertised
that he stepped.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Into an interim way has now made it his own.
He gets a chance to put his stamp on it.
And that's what Rob be interested to see can he
get this All White side playing a brand of football
that's not only winning football, but easy on the eye,
because as we know, football has sort of revolutionized itself
over the last few years, playing out from the back,
(35:30):
keeping the ball on the ground, keeping those skillful players
actively involved in the game, and that's what we want
to see.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
I was a big fan of the old Hoff it
up the middle and that was a great part of Ford.
So what are you expecting from bas what expecting from
the side, What do you want to see put in place?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
David Choke Well, exactly as I spoke about.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
If you think about the Wellington Phoenix, their success was
based around playing last season, playing a brand of football
that was good to watch and keeps the ball sort
of recycling and moving. That's what you want to see
the All Whiteside dominate possession, create chances or plenty of goals,
and they should get an opportunity to do that and
actually put a stamp on the way they're going to play,
(36:13):
because there'll be plenty of opportunity later on in this
tournament to see them playing insides who are better than them.
But they go in a strong favorites. They need to
really dictate how this game is going to go.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
There's been a lot, sorry, there's been a lot made
recently of Chris Wood. His achievements again this time at
the top level EPL and what he's done astonishing, and
he still keeps coming back to New Zealand. I think
that commitment when you consider the flight, I don't care
if your first class or not. It's horrible. He goes
(36:44):
back and forth and back and forth and back and
forth because he loves playing for his country. I mean,
that's a hero for New Zealand sport, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
He is a champion, There's no question about it.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
I don't use that lightly for Christwood because he's never
turned down the opportunity to play for his country. He
turns out and gives his best every time. He'd be
well within his rights to all the odd injury and
roll himself out of some of these hams, but he
doesn't do so. He makes himself available and he looks
like the kind of guy who's proud to represent his country,
which is a terrific thing when these games are a
(37:18):
little bit sort of one sided. But he is a
fantastic player. His numbers are phenomenal in the Premier League.
I'm not sure people realize just how good Chris Wood
has proved himself to be, because you know, he's an
old fashioned center forward in many ways, but he's at
the top of his game, playing in the best league
in the world, you would argue with the Premier League,
(37:38):
and scoring goals regularly. So Chris Wood for me, is
an absolute champion.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Well that's with the price of admission. Go along and
watch that guy play, because you see him on the screen,
you see him in the EPO, you see what he does.
He picks up awards, he scores goals, and why wouldn't
you go there and watch that? Because he would be
up and what the top handful of players to ever
played for the all Whites, the likes of Winton, Ruthers
(38:04):
and who else did you throw him up there with?
Speaker 4 (38:08):
You'd absolutely have him up there with Ruthor who Winton
was no doubt our best player, player of the century
in the last century. But Chris Wood, when he finishes playing,
I think, will reflect on a career that is equal,
if not all surpass Winton in terms of goals at
the top level.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
And that's what he's paid to do. Score goals.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
He has scored goals wherever he's gone and performed at
the top of his game. Not only would it be
good to watch on the field, he's the kind of
guy who'll hang around and sign the autographs and do
the selfies. He looks to me like, as I said,
just an absolute champion.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Alan's got left in the top leagues over in Britain.
How long could he to last?
Speaker 4 (38:48):
For Well's I think he's got two or three seasons
left in him and he'll be working hard to get
another contract beyond his current one with Forest, because he
will come to the end of his run at sometime.
But he looks like he keeps himself in good nick.
He lives a good lifestyle. By the looks of me,
he's not burning out and at the moment he's in
rude form.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
He is in great nick in this case.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
So I suppose feed him and see what happens. He
described them before David showed as a traditional an old
school center fork. Could you explain that to people who
maybe aren't that o fay with what that actually means?
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Like me, Well, he's a big man. He'll play right
up the middle of the park. He'll be on the
end of all sorts of crosses. He's not the kind
of player that you'd say is clever with his feet,
but he knows where the goal is. He'll hit it
off left or right. He's a finisher, so his goals
will be scored from sort of in around the box generally,
(39:44):
although I saw him get one from outside a week
or two back in the Premier League, so's it's not
that he's not capable of scoring those sort of worldies,
but he will finish all chances and he walks work
as socks off. He will workers right around the park.
The modern game has the smaller player able to sort
of apply their craft to the game. Chris Wood is
old fashioned in the sense that he's a target man
(40:06):
style of striker.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
One last thing, I know what I want to see
it of this match, plainly a victory or well owned one,
but no one broken, right Is that simple?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah? Correct?
Speaker 4 (40:17):
You want to get through these matches and send them
back to their clubs in good neck because that's important
as well. They should, I think, use their players intelligently
so when they've got themselves in front, maybe there will
be a chance to give other players a run.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
They've got two games they should win, and I've got
to say, I don't know if you knew the starts,
but I've got a nephew playing for Samoa in the
second game, so I'll be torn one o the support
my nephew, and I'll have to I have to go.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
With your Whites obviously for the win. So it's a
fantastic weekend.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
But young Harry Choate will be playing for Samoa, so
you'll hear the Choke name, but it won't be in
an all white should it will be in the blue
of sam Aady.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
It's David Choke. They're talking about family and of course
he's going to support his family. Blood is thicker than
passport paper. We know this. That game tomorrow is seven
thirty and Hamilton all whites out of their World Cup
qualifying drive. It is seven point fifty three. Mike Tyson
up next. Nah, I'm not interviewing him. We just pinned
(41:16):
some audio out yesterday four thirds A Sports Talk Mike
Tyson and Jake Paul are gonna go hammer and tongs
on Sunday on Netflix. Here's Mike himself after an open workouts.
Speaker 11 (41:32):
I'm tougher than I believe I was. When I agreed
to this faith and I started training, I said what
the fuck am I thinking of? And I finished the
process and now the faith, the faith, the party, all
the hard work is done.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Said that once again, please, what.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Does it mean to have family with you?
Speaker 11 (41:51):
Well, if the family's everything but my kids, to my children,
I'm nobody. And then but that night they're going to
find out their father's for every.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Special who is he want? Look at the tapes? I
want to see I want to see him walk into
the ring with the white tunic with nothing on it,
and when he removes that the black trunks and the
little black boots, classic Tyson for Math in the day
when he was a real weapon. And you Duff, thanks
for producing the program, and thanks very much for well View.
(42:23):
For taking a listen Marcus slices up next to his
news talks. He'd be good.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Evening for more from sports talk. Listen live to News Talks.
It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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