November 25, 2024 • 42 mins
Adam Cooper fills in to recap an exciting day in the world of sport! Highlights for tonight include:
Former All Black Pita Alatini discussing Richie Mo'unga and whether the eligibility rules for the All Blacks need to change
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncie Waldergrave
from News Talk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Caldo. Good evening, welcome along to sports Talk for your Monday.
It is November twenty fifth. Adam Cooper with you till
eight tonight and for Piney's having a well deserved break
this week, it is great to be with you. To
be fair, lot's going on in the sporting world on
many levels this last day or two. We will try
and keep the focus on actual sport, though in this
(00:53):
next sixty minutes for you, some may be relieved it's over.
A shaky All Blacks debut season comes to an end
in Italy. But just where do things stand with Richie
mon as possible return to set up this year? Now
the discussion re emerged in a herald today. It's getting
a little bit interesting, possibly a little bit dicey. We'll
(01:14):
delve into that this hout. We will have a chat
with former All Black Peter A. Latini on what should
be done with Richie Moonger. How much of a priority
should it be Do we even need him? That's coming
up this hour and we'll get Peter's thoughts on Scott
Robertson's first year in charge. Now that the twenty twenty
four Test match season is done and dusted, we'll also
get some end of year reflections from Scott Robertson himself,
(01:36):
who spoke exclusively to news Talks he'd be soon after
everyone dispersed from the final test of the year in
to it. Now it is Monday night. Piney isn't here,
but just for him, we're carrying on his tradition in
his absence this week. Yes, we will end the show
tonight with Piney's power rankings, so plenty to come between
now and eight. As always, you can give us a call.
(01:58):
Love to hear from you. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
You can text on nine to ninety two. It's eight
past seven.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Hear it from the biggest names in sports. May have
your say on eighty Sports Talk or more on your
home of Sports News Talk zeb.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Now the rugby year, I guess has officially come to
a close. But I think there's one story that's just
going to keep nagging away through the summer and well
into next year. Is Richie Moonger. Will he be back
next year? Really interesting comments today and the heralds Rugby
Insider with Gregor Paul from former All Blacks captain now
(02:36):
coach of Tasheba and Japan Todd Blackadder around New Zealand
Rugby and their eligibility rules. Of course, Blackatter now is
in a bit of a drill with New Zealand Rugby
over his current Tshiba player Richie Monger, who we know
en zidarra trying to lure back early from Inston's over
there to join the All Blacks next year, which at
(02:56):
that point would be a year out from his three
year Japanese deal expiring. We know that contracts will have
to be broken for that to happen. We know that
New Zealand Rugby would like to have to break its
own All Black eligibility and player sabbatical rules to bring
molong A back. Just to quickly summarize what Tod Blackadder
has set, He's taken aim at the fact Zidar have
(03:17):
got themselves into a position where these are their own rules,
but they're always trying to break them. He's unhappy with
nzdar's head of Professional Rugby Chris Lendrom's public comments about
breaking contracts and honoring them as well, But then again
he's trying to find loopholes to their own eligibility rules,
ie players getting selected in the All Blacks while not
(03:38):
playing super rugby. Blackadder says ZDR needs to prioritize what's
important to them, whether it's the domestic or international game
and even the sabbatical criteria. So it's the All Black
season winds down. Following the messy and rather forgettable win
over Italy yesterday, let's chat this and a review of
(04:01):
the twenty twenty four test season. Former All Black Peter
ar Latini is with me here on Sports Talk tonight
evening to your Pete. Now as we cast our eyes
ahead to twenty twenty five, I just want to get
your gauge on this. How much of a priority do
you think z R should be placing on getting things
across the line.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
With Richie Monger, well, I think that it's different apparently.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I suppose for Scott Robinson that things has probably led
the charge on this as such as as Mango has
been one of his key players for a long time,
obviously with the success of the Crusaders. But for myself,
I think it's important that what we've built so far
this year in terms of DMC and body been back
(04:45):
in the frame and obviously one player we have miss
those perfect and he hasn't had much of an opportunity
both obviously you can play fullback and ten, but he's
very good as well. So it's pretty tough to kind
of to really jump in at the bat until you
get some certaincy to where it is. But more importantly
you I suppose as you know what it could go
(05:08):
around talk for where be Mac and those at the
moment and you know, and unless it's confirmed, I still
think this is a big player that we should keep
supporting the two that we have, all the three members
that we have in the squad today.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, and can you just give us a bit of
an insight from a former player's perspective, how will they
be finding the continued chatter around what is clearly an
aim by the coach and and the governing body to
bring Richie Bonger back.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
That would be tough, mate. There's a player and having
having the constant reminders around there, it would be tough,
There's no doubt about that. And I suppose the only
thing you could think that that will either as the
transparency in terms of communication or from raised through the
boys and where it all sets as such, I suppose,
(06:01):
and that's probably what we're kind of not probe too
so that is, but as a player, of course, was
no doubt it would definitely plan your mind knowing that
you're percurrent in the jersey. But the constant chats, I suppose,
we'll give you a feeling of that they haven't got
really your back as such. They need this player to
(06:21):
come back through. But you know, those boys have been
in the position before and no doubt there's some flight
for them to carry it on the journeys as they
go through the next season.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Obviously, if Richie Monger was going to be brought back here,
there have been New Zealand rugby sort of breaking and
having to make an exception to its own rules. One
of those is the seventy tests for a sabbatical because
if he was to come back, they're like, they're going
to have to give them a sabbatical at some point.
Or the general rule around all blacks availability for people
who haven't played the domestic season in New Zealand's from
(06:54):
a former all blacks perspective, where do you think these
rules sit right now compared to I guess that the
rugby ecosystem at the moment.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
It really is one part that needs to be up
for discussion. And I've been a real support of making
sure we keep a place here and and we want
to make sure we support them throughout our current system
that we have and the competitions, But in terms of
international at the top level, I just feel that we're
lacking behind. You know, the competition, our Super Rugby competition
(07:27):
is just not as I suppose, as forthcoming as there
has been bought. Our players are today and the earning capacity,
remembering the aarning capacity for our players overseas is really huge.
So I think there needs to be a discussion that
there has to be is it a special competition for
(07:47):
those that have it in New Zealand and having those rules,
you know, I think the Ausies had to get a
rule around overseas players being being able to be selected
in that situation. Should it should have got to be
that kind of rule that that you know, play someone
comes in New Zealand that that they become available. But
I think there needs to be a serious descussion that
because we are losing good players at a prime age
(08:10):
around twenty five and six to venture out and that's
no faul on their own to venture out in the
financial game overseas because because you know, as we know,
New Zealand rugby or over here can can not suffice that.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, and even just you know Harry Plumber's news during
the week, he's off and again he's probably one of
those ones you mentioned, he's in his prime twenty six
years old. What is the solution here, because when you
have you know, various choices of various people to head
of you, how can you keep them in the zeale?
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Unfortunately you can't. I just you just know you can't.
Because I think there's definitely we still have got our
young talent that are all coming through. It's you know,
as we know, it's those guys like the Plumbers were
coming off age. You know, they've played a lot of
seasons in Super Rugby and MP series, so we're losing
(09:01):
a lot of good experience overseas to go and imply
the trade. But more like I said, it's the financial
game that they get to go across and for some
of that age they want to actually play in a
different competition. If you've had only Super and NPC, especially
the Super without the South Everton side, and you know
it's not a spectacles as Sayer Top fourteen in France
(09:25):
where aliens and soccer and you as a player, you'd
love to experience some of that. So I think there's
there's still an ability. I think that it's tough to
hold holdland Hebbel whereas we can for align to say, look,
you still available selection if you're in that round.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
As such, Peter, we obviously saw a pretty senior and
very experienced All Blacks teams selected for that match against
Italy over the weekend. You'd probably have expected a score
line far gracer, and I guess last week there might
have been a few more people expecting some of those
younger players that you talk about that have been waiting
in the wings, that have been part of the All
(10:02):
Black squad this year, that really haven't had some time
on the field at all. Had you expect said less
of a conservative approach from Scott robertson heating into last week, Yes, so.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
I would have. I would have, especially knowing you know,
some some really great young players that have have had
a great season and and just has deserved a crack
at the end of his tour to have a go,
and and and you know, you know, I think we're
all it's been toup On raiser. I know he's had
(10:33):
the big year that he's the head is the new
realm for him and being in being in this position
international rugby coaching. But you know, I'd love to see
would have loved to see a little bit more boldness
to give these guys to go knowing full well as well.
But the boys that that had started weekend recounted pretty
much both three tough Qualiday International sides pulling off too
(10:58):
and merely coming away with with the one against France.
So there were a lot of in you know, I
think around from that from that perform almost you know,
I think myself included amongst the people are hoping that
we would have seen a bit more young talent or
all the boys that have been pretty much I call
them holding the pads up and being the you know,
(11:19):
the beginning takes for the week for your test to
have a test runn against Italy.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Any glaring concerns from the scend of year two, if
we've talked a little bit through the year about various problems,
is there any any consistencies, you know, in terms of
what you've noticed from uh, you know, the last of
a handful of tests that have wrapped up the year
that you think should be an issue of focus heatting
into next year early on.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I think a big one, A big one for us
as our discipline. I think we're sent to be just
you know, the yellow cards, the constant penalties and letting teams,
you know, just just really kind of almost kind of
back in the game. But by by asking your discipline
and to me, I think I mean sometimes when it happens,
(12:05):
is a lot of trust or buying of what's been
coached because because I first a man of times it's
it's it's a bit of a panic approach to some
players or or just probably just a poor decision making
and crucial times for some of those players. So I
don't discipline for me has been been a huge letdown
(12:28):
for his voice and kind of working all that. But
I suppose it's just the guys really really trying to
really buy into some of the things that have been
coached to them so that we can can kind of
feel more connected and you know, and when they have
done that, you know, we've we've had the great results
against England and we've had injured in different times. Although
you know that those games were up for down to
(12:51):
the final final. Why but I still felt there was
enough the boys, if they've stuck to it and keep
keep writing at it, there's there's enough there to be successful.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Going forward as a team wins four losses from the
fourteen test. Is here just to sum up, Peter, what
kind of I guess grade maybe out of team? Are
you giving the widest season? We're looking at it as
a whole.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Oh, look, I'll give the team. I'll give the team.
Got good Solid seven mate. I think we've kind of
it's been a new niche of your coaching. To me,
is probably the biggest, biggest area where we're we're hoping
that that they're all kind of aligned and looking forward
to this season. The brayers, I feel will react to
(13:35):
that and getting the right mix of our I suppose
twenty three. You know, we were in those early parts,
we were seeing that we weren't really closing off games.
But coming to the end, you know, I think we
had some great much to finish off a couple of
those games. So for me, solid seven, because I think
I'll be real bit more critical this time next year
(13:59):
when they take on when they finish up next year,
knowing that that that raising as coaching group has been
on the helm for two years.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
All right, well, we'll look forward to that when the
season rolls around next year. Peter, thanks for all your
time through the rugby year this year. It's been great
having your insights, both with our commentaries and some of
our shows here on New News Talks, HEB and the
Sports Fixed podcast. A ready, appreciate your time and enjoy
your summer's break and not that'll be we'll be back
talking rugby again soon.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Always a pleasure and always looking forward to a brother.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Thank you, Take it easy, Peter, Thanks very much. Seventeen
tier still black. Peter Allatini with us here on News Talks.
He'd be on Sports Talk tonight. So yes, we want
to get a bit of discussion going around richiemong Or.
I think we've had a lot of post mortem in
the last twenty four hours around everything that went on
interurin yesterday and the season overall. We can get to
(14:49):
that at some point, but I do want to zero
in on this Richie Moonga debate, and it has really
been highlighted in Gregor Paul's Peace in the Herald today
and it actually shows that things might be getting a
little bit sort of tense between the two parties, as
you'd understand, But I just want to point I have
not been convinced with collectively how the All Blacks have
(15:11):
performed with the number ten Jersey this year. There has
been moments of brilliance from Damien Mackenzie, from Bowden Barrett
and others when they've had time in the pervot role,
but rarely overall. I think it's one of the aspects
(15:31):
of the campaign this year that it's been left unanswered
through the whole season. Through fourteen tests, we're not really
any step further to knowing what the long term plan
will be with this team at the number ten Jersey.
So personally, after reading some of the article today, having
a bit of a think about whether we do really
put the effort in to get Richie Mormer Richie Molonger back,
(15:53):
I think we need to see NZDR do everything at
all costs to bring back Richie Monger. Is he influential
enough to be an exception to the rules that they'll
have to break? Absolutely analyzing inconsistency and shortcomings from the season.
As I said, the number ten Jersey has one that
(16:15):
hasn't provided the certainty we'd have liked this year, and
we are very vulnerable, I believe in that Jersey, especially
if injuries come. There will obviously be some costs to
sending the olive branch out to Richie Wonga. It'll be
a reputational cost to just how stringent their own New
Zealand rugby union rules come across to those of us,
(16:37):
how much do they stick to them. But at the
end of the day, come to twenty twenty seven World Cup,
and when we're looking back, will we be judging anything
other than how competitive we were at the World Cup
rather than how often New Zealand Rugby broke its murky
eligibility rules. As per Gregor Paul's piece today, things have
got a bit messy with the whole longer situation. Three
(16:59):
likely scenarios that will happen from here. Number one, he
plays in Japan next year, then re signs with an
n Z are come May, but is then given a
sabbatical for twenty twenty six to finish as Japanese contract.
Pretty dangerous precedent could be set outcome Number two to
Shiba are able to independently bring Damien McKenzie to their
(17:20):
club in twenty twenty six to swap out for Manga.
That would be interesting, and number three Gregor Paul reckons
this is the most likely option. Monga plays in Japan
next year, signs with Zida, joins the All Blacks in July,
plays through entirely in New Zealand through to the twenty
twenty seven World Cup, then heads back to see out
his contract in Japan in twenty twenty eight. When you
(17:44):
stack up those three scenarios, that one seems the most logical,
but still sees Nzida breaching some of its own rules.
Now let's hope the parties involved can nut it out.
And what I would say on some of the eligibility rules,
I'm not quite as strong as some of those comments
I mentioned from Todd Blackadder before. Because professional sport is
(18:06):
a complex and ever changing beasts, especially now, we do
need to ensure super Rugby stay strong. And while I'd
like to never see a permanent blanket move that allows
All Blacks to play off shore then come back and
play into National rugby, maybe the criteria just needs a
bit of regin. I do think a one size fits
(18:28):
all approach for sabbatical's ie when you've hit seventy caps
may well, in fact be an outdated way of assessing it.
The way going forward I think now have a case
by case basis. Let that be the way forward here.
Judge people on more criteria than just how many tests
are against their name, and that may have prevented the
(18:50):
mess over Richiemonger in the first place. But I'd love
to hear what you think. Oh, eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number from what you've seen of
Boden Barrett and Damien Mackenzie. This year, we've had sort
of Stephen Parafeta come back and from the rafters he
returned to the scene this year with three tests. Do
Enzida need to continue to feverishly negotiate to try and
(19:12):
get Richie Muonga back? And how much of a priority
do you think it is for the All Blacks in
twenty twenty five leading up to the twenty twenty seven
World Cup. I've let you know that I think they
need to get onto it and it's not going to
be easy. There's a few scenarios in front of them
that they need to try and nut out with Tashiba.
We'll love to hear your calls though, oh eight hundred
(19:34):
and eighty ten eighty. Let's start off with Ellen.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Hey, Alen, you got evening. Actually, personally I thought the
best first five eight in a New Zealan rugby this
year was Harry Plummer. I'd like the way the Blues play,
you know, for me, that's the way rugby should play.
They played, You've got a big forward pack who destroyed
(20:01):
everybody up front.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
B big.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Arry Plumber. There's a player. Yeah I'm not really making sense,
but that blueprints of rugby a j lamb and there's Rique.
You only gets center, but he he's a pinpoint goalkicker.
(20:30):
He was better than McKenzie during the Super Rugby. McKenzie's
shown great form with his kicking. I just love the
way McKenzie's come on. But just the way that guy
can play.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
And for.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
You know, Rissie was well, unfortunately he's past tense and
I just don't see.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
The point in that.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, No, I totally get your point, Ellen, Yeah, and
I think like you, I was very disappointed to wake
up a couple of more ago midway through last week,
I think it was and here the news that Harry
Plumber had signed to head over to France obviously we
don't know the extent of the negotiations that he was
in with New Zealand Rugby. He's leaving after Super Rugby
next year, so he will get one more season with
(21:22):
the Blues. But yeah, just how hard New Zealand Rugby
tried to keep Harry Plumber in the game here, I'm
not sure and you'd have to think when According to
Gregor Paul's piece today in the Rugby Inside Rugby column
in the Heralds that New Zealand Rugby and Scott Robertson
(21:43):
have this firmly as a major focus, trying to do
all they can with Tashiba over in Japan to get
Richie Wolonger back, and maybe that came into play with
how much Harry Plummer was going to be off with
giving given he is a few spots a few spots
down the pecking order. But thanks for your cool Graham. Sorry, Alan,
I appreciate you are getting us underway. We'll go to
Graham now.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
Good day Graham, okay, and I'm good to talk here again.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
You do.
Speaker 6 (22:07):
Yeah, no interesting topic obviously. Yeah, I've got a lot
of thoughts on it, but I can predict them.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I think I can predict them a little.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Oh, I know, well, I agree with year one hundred percent.
You know, you know, I think that the scenario that
you painted is that what I would like to see happen.
That he comes back in net year and then plays
for the All Blacks whenever we'll probably he'll probably go
straight back into the squad if he comes back, and
then he plays for the Crusaders, which I obviously we've
(22:39):
missed him and it's been a bit of an understatement,
but yeah, and then he plays in the World Cup.
And good points by that last call about Harry Plumber too.
It was the same with Fergus Burke. We've lost when
he left here, you know, midway through the year. He
was a player that I thought had a lot of potential.
Speaker 7 (22:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
The rugby Union, I do wonder about them at times.
And I have a lot of somebody for Todd Blackadder
because he's someone I know well and you know, one
of my favorite players, and I can see I can
see his I mean, in his court, what he's thinking,
you know. But yeah, but i'd like this is the
one I'd like a wooden win on. I think we
do need him. I don't think I think mackenzie was
(23:19):
unlucky to be dropped after the Irish Test, but even
then I didn't think his play was that great. But
I thought he was unlucky to be not selected, and
I think that they didn't him and bod and Heaven
really put their hands up, you know. I agree like
cam Re Reguard. I mean, Aaron's this great player, but
he's a bit of talk about him too, But cam
(23:41):
Reuiguard and these guys, we've got an our vanguard of
young half back. So that's sort of just basically well,
I'll be quiet man.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
No, no, I mean I agree with you, Graham. And
the thing about it is that you know, and people
are pointing out on the text machine as well. Damien
McKenzie was named World Rugby in the World Rugby sort
of dream Squad of the Year at number ten. And
the highlights reels of Damien McKenzie are absolutely brilliant, right
if you if you pick out five, five or six
of his best moments from the twenty twenty four season,
(24:11):
he will look as good as any player in the
world right now. But it's that consistency and the stuff
that doesn't make the highlights real that I think sort
of just still has a few reservations about about long
term utilizing him as the number ten or even the
number twenty.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Well there, that's standard with Damien McKenzie. I don't mean
that in a derogatory way. His Twilight's package reel every
year to the Chiefs, and you know, he does some
miraculous things, but it's the game we're talking that A
Boden Barrett was a better first five a few years ago,
but I don't think his game management is that great either.
As Richie Mulana, I saw so much of him here
(24:52):
and what he did at the World Cup last year.
A lot of people disagree and almost sabbaticals. I agree
one hundred percent too with what you were saying. You know,
I think that if they handled properly, they can a
lot of people don't like them. I never used to,
but I think at Cody Taylor this year, I think
he really benefited from it when he came back for
(25:14):
the Crusaders and then in the All Blacks campaign, And
I think players, yeah, can come back and yeah, and
if they're not playing in Japan, you know that's fine.
They can ever break and you can win, win, you
can carry on they can carry on plane longer. But yeah,
we'll see what others have got to say.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, absolutely, Graham, Hey, great to hear from you, have
a great week.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Good thank you, edn't bite cheers.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Good to hear from your Graham. Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eight. If you'd like to join the discussion,
we're obviously just talking come the end of the season. Now,
test season done and dusted for the All Blacks, fourteen
tests are gone, and the chatter arounds out of the
Inside Rugby column and the heralds today is just how
hard New Zealand Rugby are going to have to work
(25:58):
to get Richie Muhonger back. But it appears to be
top of the wish list for Scott Robertson for New
Zealand rugby heading into next year, and if not next year,
maybe the year after as we build up to the
twenty twenty seven Rugby World Cup. Conrad good even to you.
Speaker 8 (26:17):
Yes, my position is they should let the all best
play overseas because all these hit aches are created because
they won't let the all blessed player over seeds. That
creates all the headaches. I mean, there's a lot of
talks For example, Chris Wood plays overseas in I think
in the English Premier League, so he last time I cheeked,
(26:39):
he's allowed players for you at all. White Kane Williamson
plays cricket the last time I cheak God, he's trying
to play for against England this week. So what I
don't think you understand is that that having these special
rules actually creates headaches. Now the reverse scenario is someone
like the spring Box. My understanding is a lot of
(27:00):
their players play in Europe. It's for those kind of guys.
Here's a key point that makes it a lot easier
for the coach for a star because redby Erasthmus can
simply have a blank page with just names on it
and none of these are stiknect to them, whether they
player the season or not. So Arasmus already has a
(27:22):
huge advantage over Robertson. Right, And if your orderate goal
is to win the World Cup, why would you handicap
Robertson compared for a Resthmas.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, well it's going to be long term assessment on that,
I think. Conrad, Yes, the spring Box are doing well now.
They're their players are as you say, playing and a
Europe a lot of them, but they're not confined to
their domestic competition. But for me, it's it's the effect
that that has on the next level down and super rugby.
And do we want to get to a point like
we have years football as an example, when our professional
(27:54):
or you know what might be semi professional clubs down
the track only have development players in head off shore
as soon as they can. Is that really good for
the sport of rugby.
Speaker 8 (28:05):
Well, maybe that's the way we'll sport is going though
the sense to me, he's on rugby as the ones
that is a holdout. And secondly, I mean I don't
I don't think you know when Argentina won the World
Cup in twenty twenty two, in December twenty twenty two,
I mean they didn't have all sorts of risks for
a thing because their best he doesn't plan art and Seena,
they just they you're celebrated winning the World Cup. So yeah,
(28:26):
I'll leave that anyway.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yes, no, great thoughts, Conrad, I appreciate it. It is
a really interesting discussion. It's been debated for so long
and it is New Zealand rugby's own unique rule. We've
seen obviously the Australians water there strict criteria down on,
you know, where players need to be playing to make
the Wallabies hasn't really helped them. They'll see what happens
(28:50):
under Joe Schmidt over the next couple of years. But
the spring box back to back world champions and you know,
giving their players a little bit of freedom. But as
I said to Conrad, I do just wonder the long
term viability of that, for rugby is a domestic sport
in the country, but we will wait and see it. Certainly,
on Scott Robertson's agender, I believe to allow these sabbaticals
(29:15):
to happen for two years of players not playing super
rugby but being part of the All Black setup. And
fair enough from Razor, he's in charge of trying to
win a World Cup. That's his plan. Well, I just
think the damage you can do to rugby by loosening
it up too severely could be a bit terminal. Anyway,
(29:38):
I'd up to hear your thoughts. Plenty of text coming in. Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number twenty five
to eight back with more of your calls. Next couple
of quick texts here on sports talk Monger made his
choice no way, should he be brought back, should honor
his contract? And the other text here, I'm completely again
springing in overseas based players. It's a slippery slope for
his Zealand rugby. If Razor is the super coach everyone
(30:00):
thinks he is, he should be able to get the
best out of our current playing stock. That from Richard.
Thanks for that, Richard, David good evening, what do you reckon?
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I just agree with I agree with it last comment
because I think if you're going to make start making
special rules for one player, all I'm going to say
is I hope the double doors are working when he
gets off the plane, because his head's going to be
that big. I don't care who he is.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
He sort of we'll come come back with a bit
of a spring and his step starting around the eye
up being brought back as any.
Speaker 9 (30:38):
No, no, no, But I mean when you I mean,
this is the all blacks, you know, the god given
sanctity of the black jersey and the silver food, and
they start making special rules for one person.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
It's just not on. I on really, I can't believe
that he's in And even in the talking point for
being the next five as I mean, they let Plumber
go a real good one. How I thought it was
(31:12):
solid airs and and and stop putting holes in it,
you know. And what you in a rugby want to do,
don't worry about the bloody bring plows back from overseas.
What they want to do is start putting their bloody efort.
And they're all their backside behind NPC and Provincial Rugby
and Club Rugbek. Because that's anyway I've ever read.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's no great rant, David. I love it, and yeah
I totally get that. Thanks, thanks for your call, Goosts.
Good evening.
Speaker 7 (31:44):
Yeah, an interesting topic and that your menus to find
one that gives you off what everybody's talking about. But yeah, yeah,
that's an interesting one because Rais and wife have hit
on the solution as far as a Sabetical that we
can pull them back from. If it's only a Shabetical,
(32:06):
I don't know, but I think it is the thin
end of the wedge and very slippery slope because as
soon as it goes to being able to select players
from overseas, the All Blacks are gone. As far as
a realistic pl one, the sporting entity we become the
(32:29):
whipping boys that provide. I mean, have a look at
Ireland last year at the World Cup when we fronted
up against them, they had three keyweeds across the back
line and a Nausia on the length, two South Africans
in the pack. We haven't got the money to compete,
we haven't got the sponsorship to compete. We're just absolutely
(32:49):
bugget if we go to a financial model like that.
The only advantage we have is that the all black
jersey has the pool that it has. But the problem
we've got is the now coming to fruition, the legacy
of Hanson and Foster who put all their eggs on
this idiotic ken can be fifteen basket and then New
(33:11):
Zealand Rugby doubled down on it by backing Barrack through
to the next World Cup and leaving them alling a hand.
So we're seeing, we're seeing the problem. We now we're
dealing with a dmat who's, as you talked about his
highlights trill. He'll be a world class player on a
highlight d realm all day every day. But as far
(33:33):
as a team managers, it's able to direct this side
around a paddock. Give me a break, he's nowhere near it,
and then you took, and then you've got an Odin
Barratt in twenty sixteen was the world's best player and
in twenty seventeen got given at it again when it
was laughable that he was because he was already on
the squad the season. Then that has seen year his mouth.
(33:56):
So yeah, we need more badly.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And you'd you'd, you'd break your own rules goes to
bring him back.
Speaker 7 (34:07):
The Ros are, Yeah, we've got issues here because we're
going to have to do something up and they've painted
themselves into a funer. They've got a bite like plumber
that left somebody else mentioned Fergus Burke. We're not losing
the guys that look like they are going to be
coming through from super rugby to be All Blacks. We're
losing kids at high school level to go and play
(34:30):
club rugby in the UK. We're on in major trouble
and so if bringing along a back means that we
have to shake the rules up to some extent, then
we have to do that because we're literally a fifty
to fifty proposition against any other Tier one nation while
we don't have an international quality first fire and currently
(34:53):
we don't have one.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, I'm with you go. Thanks very much for your call. Yeah,
I'm fully behind them getting Richie Maonga back And at
the same time I would love to have seen Zealand
rugby earned from what I think was probably a mistake
of letting him go after the World Cup. But when
you're seeing as you point out the likes of the
(35:16):
Harry Plumbers and Fergus Burke's heading off shore, a couple
of young backs, the Hurricanes as well, I've sort of
dot a little bit worth of how I thought had
great potential but sick of being patient and not being
invested in, and away they go too. So yeah, it's
a problem that doesn't look like it's being prevented any further,
(35:39):
even though I think it's plain and clear that a
mistake was made by letting Richiemonger go and looking at
the future with that. Anyway, thanks for your calls. Quarter
to eight. We are fast approaching the end, but we
will get to our power rankings in just a moment.
Rankings Piney away this week. Of course, the format does
(36:04):
not change though. Time for Power Rankings brought to you
by Coops Manchester City.
Speaker 8 (36:11):
This will be the most.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
High catching scoreline right across Europe this weekend and it's five, yes,
five consecutive defeat for the Champions You earness me, how
did they get into such a free fall of four
near loss to Spurs, the latest one this weekend, eight
points back on the ladder. Now at least they can
stay at home this week. They have fineal oords in
the Champions League on Wednesday morning.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Nine.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Well, they don't deserve much higher than this. The All
Blacks and a year of significant change, and the All
Blacks comes through a winning but largely forgettable ends, insuring
uninspiring to say the least, to cap off a shaky
year under new coach Scott Robertson ten wins, four losses
from the fourteen tests. I'd say more questions than answers
(36:57):
about where this team's at a quarter of the way
through the World's Cup cycle.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
Eight.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Liam Lawson, it was tough.
Speaker 10 (37:04):
I think the start of the race is tricky, and
then after the first stop cycle we were in an
okay position, but I guess we tried to stretch it
a little bit too long and then and then we
went to box anyway, So yeah, it's it's tough, but
obviously doesn't.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Help where we're starting. He used that word a few
times tough outing for him under lights of the Vegas
Strip last night. As he mentioned, there though a challenging
starting spot, and I think still the potential to finish
the year on a high with a few races to go.
Seven we stay with Formula one have that.
Speaker 8 (37:37):
Man has hit the jackpots in Vegas tonight, Max Firstaffer,
a four time champion.
Speaker 11 (37:45):
Of the world.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Their sensational four consecutive championships to Max First Staff and
as predictable as his success has often come, you've got
to admire the feet he joins one manual Fansio Michael Schumacher,
Sebastian Vettel and Sir Lewis Hamilton and clinching the four
six well, his voice probably won't need an introduction to
you NFL fans.
Speaker 11 (38:06):
So happy and grateful that the Lord has asked me
to play in some snow, to be in true football
weather in Cleveland, Ohio at Huntington bank Field today to
give him the glory. It's a beautiful day.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Jameis Winston, the Cleveland's quarterback doing great things on the
snow in the latest round and as pre match hype
speeches as postmatch interviews show plenty of other sportspeople how
character and emotion can captivate your fan base. Five Let's
set the water in Dubai and an.
Speaker 12 (38:34):
Early celebration for the Kiwi's not quite there yet, but
it's safe to say the Emirates winning moment goes the
way of the Black Foils, as New Zealand claims the
first event of the twenty twenty five season.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Great start to the sale GP season from a Kiwi perspective.
Typical class as always from Berlin, Chuke and all bring on.
They made an appearance in Auckland and January four, crossing
the purse one hundred, calling.
Speaker 12 (39:02):
The kid fifteens's love affairs of batting.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
It is Friday. Great right, yeah, well we all know
what happened in India over the past months to them,
but a long awaited century in Australia for v Ratz
helps putting the Indians in a dominant possession in the
first test of the Aussie Summy. You'll love to see it,
don't you. Three the World's rugby men's fifteen's breakthrough player
of the year, Wi's popped up there gets a pass
(39:27):
away for hell that's an incredible pass by Wallace Titi
there it is superb skill from wallis huge congratulations Wallace
a Tit. The twenty two year old debuted off the
bench against Fiji this year, then started an eighth of
his next nine tests, an amazing journey considering he was
(39:49):
barely a Super Rugby starter at the beginning of the year.
Surprising not to see him in the overall Team of
the Year though two to the fairways. Some kind of
final d charge though from one of the best in
the game.
Speaker 10 (40:00):
It's not going to be enough, but what a baliant
effort and it's quite a season.
Speaker 8 (40:05):
She is hard.
Speaker 7 (40:06):
He that enough, It's just it.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Has been pun to life degree more consistency and class
from Lydia CoA sublime final round sixty three, not quite
enough to clinch the LPGA to a championship, but her
form and absolute brilliance go on show again of course,
wrapping up an incredible year that's returned Olympic gold and
a maiden British Open. Right here we go one we
(40:32):
head to the top of the A League Ladder. Four
straight for life under Steve Corica and the most successful
start to life as an A League club now belongs
to Auckland FC. Auckland FC's dream run at the starts
of their new era continues, no goals scored against them. Now,
(40:53):
I will say it's a long competition, it will get tougher,
but even from a proud Dwellingtonian and Phoenix fan like myself,
four from four in your very first season. Congratulations to
all involved at Auckland FC. We'll see you at the
derby in a couple of weeks. Don't forget we are
just behind you on the ladder. So there we have it.
(41:14):
Our power rankings for Monday November twenty five. Congratulations Auckland FC.
Seven to eight tier on Sports Talk will be back
to wrap up right after this, and just before we
go here on Sports Talk, the Indians are closing it
on victory in Perth against Australia. Then I have the
hosts two hundred and twenty four for seven well into
the tale with Alex Carey and Mitchell Stark at the crease.
(41:36):
So it's after lunch. I do wonder if they'll even
make it to tea with yeah, Australia well behind three
hundred plus runs still the deficit, so looks like we
will be having an Indian victory in that first Test
in Australia. Not too far away. Of course, Test cricket
coming to our shorts just a couple of days time.
But everyone in christ Church is getting very excited for
(41:59):
Black Caps England starting Thursday. But thanks to producer Andy
McDonalds tonight, thanks to everyone who has called and texted.
Sorry we couldn't get to everyone who phoned and texted.
Has been a busy night on the phones. Actually, I'm
sure this Richie Wonger discussion will carry on. It's going
to be an interesting aspects of the twenty twenty five
rugby season. Parties back next week thanks to your company.
(42:21):
Catch you again soon
Speaker 1 (42:34):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncie Waldergrave
from News Talk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Caldo. Good evening, welcome along to sports Talk for your Monday.
It is November twenty fifth. Adam Cooper with you till
eight tonight and for Piney's having a well deserved break
this week, it is great to be with you. To
be fair, lot's going on in the sporting world on
many levels this last day or two. We will try
and keep the focus on actual sport, though in this
(00:53):
next sixty minutes for you, some may be relieved it's over.
A shaky All Blacks debut season comes to an end
in Italy. But just where do things stand with Richie
mon as possible return to set up this year? Now
the discussion re emerged in a herald today. It's getting
a little bit interesting, possibly a little bit dicey. We'll
(01:14):
delve into that this hout. We will have a chat
with former All Black Peter A. Latini on what should
be done with Richie Moonger. How much of a priority
should it be Do we even need him? That's coming
up this hour and we'll get Peter's thoughts on Scott
Robertson's first year in charge. Now that the twenty twenty
four Test match season is done and dusted, we'll also
get some end of year reflections from Scott Robertson himself,
(01:36):
who spoke exclusively to news Talks he'd be soon after
everyone dispersed from the final test of the year in
to it. Now it is Monday night. Piney isn't here,
but just for him, we're carrying on his tradition in
his absence this week. Yes, we will end the show
tonight with Piney's power rankings, so plenty to come between
now and eight. As always, you can give us a call.
(01:58):
Love to hear from you. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
You can text on nine to ninety two. It's eight
past seven.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Hear it from the biggest names in sports. May have
your say on eighty Sports Talk or more on your
home of Sports News Talk zeb.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Now the rugby year, I guess has officially come to
a close. But I think there's one story that's just
going to keep nagging away through the summer and well
into next year. Is Richie Moonger. Will he be back
next year? Really interesting comments today and the heralds Rugby
Insider with Gregor Paul from former All Blacks captain now
(02:36):
coach of Tasheba and Japan Todd Blackadder around New Zealand
Rugby and their eligibility rules. Of course, Blackatter now is
in a bit of a drill with New Zealand Rugby
over his current Tshiba player Richie Monger, who we know
en zidarra trying to lure back early from Inston's over
there to join the All Blacks next year, which at
(02:56):
that point would be a year out from his three
year Japanese deal expiring. We know that contracts will have
to be broken for that to happen. We know that
New Zealand Rugby would like to have to break its
own All Black eligibility and player sabbatical rules to bring
molong A back. Just to quickly summarize what Tod Blackadder
has set, He's taken aim at the fact Zidar have
(03:17):
got themselves into a position where these are their own rules,
but they're always trying to break them. He's unhappy with
nzdar's head of Professional Rugby Chris Lendrom's public comments about
breaking contracts and honoring them as well, But then again
he's trying to find loopholes to their own eligibility rules,
ie players getting selected in the All Blacks while not
(03:38):
playing super rugby. Blackadder says ZDR needs to prioritize what's
important to them, whether it's the domestic or international game
and even the sabbatical criteria. So it's the All Black
season winds down. Following the messy and rather forgettable win
over Italy yesterday, let's chat this and a review of
(04:01):
the twenty twenty four test season. Former All Black Peter
ar Latini is with me here on Sports Talk tonight
evening to your Pete. Now as we cast our eyes
ahead to twenty twenty five, I just want to get
your gauge on this. How much of a priority do
you think z R should be placing on getting things
across the line.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
With Richie Monger, well, I think that it's different apparently.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I suppose for Scott Robinson that things has probably led
the charge on this as such as as Mango has
been one of his key players for a long time,
obviously with the success of the Crusaders. But for myself,
I think it's important that what we've built so far
this year in terms of DMC and body been back
(04:45):
in the frame and obviously one player we have miss
those perfect and he hasn't had much of an opportunity
both obviously you can play fullback and ten, but he's
very good as well. So it's pretty tough to kind
of to really jump in at the bat until you
get some certaincy to where it is. But more importantly
you I suppose as you know what it could go
(05:08):
around talk for where be Mac and those at the
moment and you know, and unless it's confirmed, I still
think this is a big player that we should keep
supporting the two that we have, all the three members
that we have in the squad today.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, and can you just give us a bit of
an insight from a former player's perspective, how will they
be finding the continued chatter around what is clearly an
aim by the coach and and the governing body to
bring Richie Bonger back.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
That would be tough, mate. There's a player and having
having the constant reminders around there, it would be tough,
There's no doubt about that. And I suppose the only
thing you could think that that will either as the
transparency in terms of communication or from raised through the
boys and where it all sets as such, I suppose,
(06:01):
and that's probably what we're kind of not probe too
so that is, but as a player, of course, was
no doubt it would definitely plan your mind knowing that
you're percurrent in the jersey. But the constant chats, I suppose,
we'll give you a feeling of that they haven't got
really your back as such. They need this player to
(06:21):
come back through. But you know, those boys have been
in the position before and no doubt there's some flight
for them to carry it on the journeys as they
go through the next season.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Obviously, if Richie Monger was going to be brought back here,
there have been New Zealand rugby sort of breaking and
having to make an exception to its own rules. One
of those is the seventy tests for a sabbatical because
if he was to come back, they're like, they're going
to have to give them a sabbatical at some point.
Or the general rule around all blacks availability for people
who haven't played the domestic season in New Zealand's from
(06:54):
a former all blacks perspective, where do you think these
rules sit right now compared to I guess that the
rugby ecosystem at the moment.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
It really is one part that needs to be up
for discussion. And I've been a real support of making
sure we keep a place here and and we want
to make sure we support them throughout our current system
that we have and the competitions, But in terms of
international at the top level, I just feel that we're
lacking behind. You know, the competition, our Super Rugby competition
(07:27):
is just not as I suppose, as forthcoming as there
has been bought. Our players are today and the earning capacity,
remembering the aarning capacity for our players overseas is really huge.
So I think there needs to be a discussion that
there has to be is it a special competition for
(07:47):
those that have it in New Zealand and having those rules,
you know, I think the Ausies had to get a
rule around overseas players being being able to be selected
in that situation. Should it should have got to be
that kind of rule that that you know, play someone
comes in New Zealand that that they become available. But
I think there needs to be a serious descussion that
because we are losing good players at a prime age
(08:10):
around twenty five and six to venture out and that's
no faul on their own to venture out in the
financial game overseas because because you know, as we know,
New Zealand rugby or over here can can not suffice that.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, and even just you know Harry Plumber's news during
the week, he's off and again he's probably one of
those ones you mentioned, he's in his prime twenty six
years old. What is the solution here, because when you
have you know, various choices of various people to head
of you, how can you keep them in the zeale?
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Unfortunately you can't. I just you just know you can't.
Because I think there's definitely we still have got our
young talent that are all coming through. It's you know,
as we know, it's those guys like the Plumbers were
coming off age. You know, they've played a lot of
seasons in Super Rugby and MP series, so we're losing
(09:01):
a lot of good experience overseas to go and imply
the trade. But more like I said, it's the financial
game that they get to go across and for some
of that age they want to actually play in a
different competition. If you've had only Super and NPC, especially
the Super without the South Everton side, and you know
it's not a spectacles as Sayer Top fourteen in France
(09:25):
where aliens and soccer and you as a player, you'd
love to experience some of that. So I think there's
there's still an ability. I think that it's tough to
hold holdland Hebbel whereas we can for align to say, look,
you still available selection if you're in that round.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
As such, Peter, we obviously saw a pretty senior and
very experienced All Blacks teams selected for that match against
Italy over the weekend. You'd probably have expected a score
line far gracer, and I guess last week there might
have been a few more people expecting some of those
younger players that you talk about that have been waiting
in the wings, that have been part of the All
(10:02):
Black squad this year, that really haven't had some time
on the field at all. Had you expect said less
of a conservative approach from Scott robertson heating into last week, Yes, so.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
I would have. I would have, especially knowing you know,
some some really great young players that have have had
a great season and and just has deserved a crack
at the end of his tour to have a go,
and and and you know, you know, I think we're
all it's been toup On raiser. I know he's had
(10:33):
the big year that he's the head is the new
realm for him and being in being in this position
international rugby coaching. But you know, I'd love to see
would have loved to see a little bit more boldness
to give these guys to go knowing full well as well.
But the boys that that had started weekend recounted pretty
much both three tough Qualiday International sides pulling off too
(10:58):
and merely coming away with with the one against France.
So there were a lot of in you know, I
think around from that from that perform almost you know,
I think myself included amongst the people are hoping that
we would have seen a bit more young talent or
all the boys that have been pretty much I call
them holding the pads up and being the you know,
(11:19):
the beginning takes for the week for your test to
have a test runn against Italy.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Any glaring concerns from the scend of year two, if
we've talked a little bit through the year about various problems,
is there any any consistencies, you know, in terms of
what you've noticed from uh, you know, the last of
a handful of tests that have wrapped up the year
that you think should be an issue of focus heatting
into next year early on.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I think a big one, A big one for us
as our discipline. I think we're sent to be just
you know, the yellow cards, the constant penalties and letting teams,
you know, just just really kind of almost kind of
back in the game. But by by asking your discipline
and to me, I think I mean sometimes when it happens,
(12:05):
is a lot of trust or buying of what's been
coached because because I first a man of times it's
it's it's a bit of a panic approach to some
players or or just probably just a poor decision making
and crucial times for some of those players. So I
don't discipline for me has been been a huge letdown
(12:28):
for his voice and kind of working all that. But
I suppose it's just the guys really really trying to
really buy into some of the things that have been
coached to them so that we can can kind of
feel more connected and you know, and when they have
done that, you know, we've we've had the great results
against England and we've had injured in different times. Although
you know that those games were up for down to
(12:51):
the final final. Why but I still felt there was
enough the boys, if they've stuck to it and keep
keep writing at it, there's there's enough there to be successful.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Going forward as a team wins four losses from the
fourteen test. Is here just to sum up, Peter, what
kind of I guess grade maybe out of team? Are
you giving the widest season? We're looking at it as
a whole.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Oh, look, I'll give the team. I'll give the team.
Got good Solid seven mate. I think we've kind of
it's been a new niche of your coaching. To me,
is probably the biggest, biggest area where we're we're hoping
that that they're all kind of aligned and looking forward
to this season. The brayers, I feel will react to
(13:35):
that and getting the right mix of our I suppose
twenty three. You know, we were in those early parts,
we were seeing that we weren't really closing off games.
But coming to the end, you know, I think we
had some great much to finish off a couple of
those games. So for me, solid seven, because I think
I'll be real bit more critical this time next year
(13:59):
when they take on when they finish up next year,
knowing that that that raising as coaching group has been
on the helm for two years.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
All right, well, we'll look forward to that when the
season rolls around next year. Peter, thanks for all your
time through the rugby year this year. It's been great
having your insights, both with our commentaries and some of
our shows here on New News Talks, HEB and the
Sports Fixed podcast. A ready, appreciate your time and enjoy
your summer's break and not that'll be we'll be back
talking rugby again soon.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Always a pleasure and always looking forward to a brother.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Thank you, Take it easy, Peter, Thanks very much. Seventeen
tier still black. Peter Allatini with us here on News Talks.
He'd be on Sports Talk tonight. So yes, we want
to get a bit of discussion going around richiemong Or.
I think we've had a lot of post mortem in
the last twenty four hours around everything that went on
interurin yesterday and the season overall. We can get to
(14:49):
that at some point, but I do want to zero
in on this Richie Moonga debate, and it has really
been highlighted in Gregor Paul's Peace in the Herald today
and it actually shows that things might be getting a
little bit sort of tense between the two parties, as
you'd understand, But I just want to point I have
not been convinced with collectively how the All Blacks have
(15:11):
performed with the number ten Jersey this year. There has
been moments of brilliance from Damien Mackenzie, from Bowden Barrett
and others when they've had time in the pervot role,
but rarely overall. I think it's one of the aspects
(15:31):
of the campaign this year that it's been left unanswered
through the whole season. Through fourteen tests, we're not really
any step further to knowing what the long term plan
will be with this team at the number ten Jersey.
So personally, after reading some of the article today, having
a bit of a think about whether we do really
put the effort in to get Richie Mormer Richie Molonger back,
(15:53):
I think we need to see NZDR do everything at
all costs to bring back Richie Monger. Is he influential
enough to be an exception to the rules that they'll
have to break? Absolutely analyzing inconsistency and shortcomings from the season.
As I said, the number ten Jersey has one that
(16:15):
hasn't provided the certainty we'd have liked this year, and
we are very vulnerable, I believe in that Jersey, especially
if injuries come. There will obviously be some costs to
sending the olive branch out to Richie Wonga. It'll be
a reputational cost to just how stringent their own New
Zealand rugby union rules come across to those of us,
(16:37):
how much do they stick to them. But at the
end of the day, come to twenty twenty seven World Cup,
and when we're looking back, will we be judging anything
other than how competitive we were at the World Cup
rather than how often New Zealand Rugby broke its murky
eligibility rules. As per Gregor Paul's piece today, things have
got a bit messy with the whole longer situation. Three
(16:59):
likely scenarios that will happen from here. Number one, he
plays in Japan next year, then re signs with an
n Z are come May, but is then given a
sabbatical for twenty twenty six to finish as Japanese contract.
Pretty dangerous precedent could be set outcome Number two to
Shiba are able to independently bring Damien McKenzie to their
(17:20):
club in twenty twenty six to swap out for Manga.
That would be interesting, and number three Gregor Paul reckons
this is the most likely option. Monga plays in Japan
next year, signs with Zida, joins the All Blacks in July,
plays through entirely in New Zealand through to the twenty
twenty seven World Cup, then heads back to see out
his contract in Japan in twenty twenty eight. When you
(17:44):
stack up those three scenarios, that one seems the most logical,
but still sees Nzida breaching some of its own rules.
Now let's hope the parties involved can nut it out.
And what I would say on some of the eligibility rules,
I'm not quite as strong as some of those comments
I mentioned from Todd Blackadder before. Because professional sport is
(18:06):
a complex and ever changing beasts, especially now, we do
need to ensure super Rugby stay strong. And while I'd
like to never see a permanent blanket move that allows
All Blacks to play off shore then come back and
play into National rugby, maybe the criteria just needs a
bit of regin. I do think a one size fits
(18:28):
all approach for sabbatical's ie when you've hit seventy caps
may well, in fact be an outdated way of assessing it.
The way going forward I think now have a case
by case basis. Let that be the way forward here.
Judge people on more criteria than just how many tests
are against their name, and that may have prevented the
(18:50):
mess over Richiemonger in the first place. But I'd love
to hear what you think. Oh, eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number from what you've seen of
Boden Barrett and Damien Mackenzie. This year, we've had sort
of Stephen Parafeta come back and from the rafters he
returned to the scene this year with three tests. Do
Enzida need to continue to feverishly negotiate to try and
(19:12):
get Richie Muonga back? And how much of a priority
do you think it is for the All Blacks in
twenty twenty five leading up to the twenty twenty seven
World Cup. I've let you know that I think they
need to get onto it and it's not going to
be easy. There's a few scenarios in front of them
that they need to try and nut out with Tashiba.
We'll love to hear your calls though, oh eight hundred
(19:34):
and eighty ten eighty. Let's start off with Ellen.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Hey, Alen, you got evening. Actually, personally I thought the
best first five eight in a New Zealan rugby this
year was Harry Plummer. I'd like the way the Blues play,
you know, for me, that's the way rugby should play.
They played, You've got a big forward pack who destroyed
(20:01):
everybody up front.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
B big.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Arry Plumber. There's a player. Yeah I'm not really making sense,
but that blueprints of rugby a j lamb and there's Rique.
You only gets center, but he he's a pinpoint goalkicker.
(20:30):
He was better than McKenzie during the Super Rugby. McKenzie's
shown great form with his kicking. I just love the
way McKenzie's come on. But just the way that guy
can play.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
And for.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
You know, Rissie was well, unfortunately he's past tense and
I just don't see.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
The point in that.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, No, I totally get your point, Ellen, Yeah, and
I think like you, I was very disappointed to wake
up a couple of more ago midway through last week,
I think it was and here the news that Harry
Plumber had signed to head over to France obviously we
don't know the extent of the negotiations that he was
in with New Zealand Rugby. He's leaving after Super Rugby
next year, so he will get one more season with
(21:22):
the Blues. But yeah, just how hard New Zealand Rugby
tried to keep Harry Plumber in the game here, I'm
not sure and you'd have to think when According to
Gregor Paul's piece today in the Rugby Inside Rugby column
in the Heralds that New Zealand Rugby and Scott Robertson
(21:43):
have this firmly as a major focus, trying to do
all they can with Tashiba over in Japan to get
Richie Wolonger back, and maybe that came into play with
how much Harry Plummer was going to be off with
giving given he is a few spots a few spots
down the pecking order. But thanks for your cool Graham. Sorry, Alan,
I appreciate you are getting us underway. We'll go to
Graham now.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
Good day Graham, okay, and I'm good to talk here again.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
You do.
Speaker 6 (22:07):
Yeah, no interesting topic obviously. Yeah, I've got a lot
of thoughts on it, but I can predict them.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I think I can predict them a little.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Oh, I know, well, I agree with year one hundred percent.
You know, you know, I think that the scenario that
you painted is that what I would like to see happen.
That he comes back in net year and then plays
for the All Blacks whenever we'll probably he'll probably go
straight back into the squad if he comes back, and
then he plays for the Crusaders, which I obviously we've
(22:39):
missed him and it's been a bit of an understatement,
but yeah, and then he plays in the World Cup.
And good points by that last call about Harry Plumber too.
It was the same with Fergus Burke. We've lost when
he left here, you know, midway through the year. He
was a player that I thought had a lot of potential.
Speaker 7 (22:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
The rugby Union, I do wonder about them at times.
And I have a lot of somebody for Todd Blackadder
because he's someone I know well and you know, one
of my favorite players, and I can see I can
see his I mean, in his court, what he's thinking,
you know. But yeah, but i'd like this is the
one I'd like a wooden win on. I think we
do need him. I don't think I think mackenzie was
(23:19):
unlucky to be dropped after the Irish Test, but even
then I didn't think his play was that great. But
I thought he was unlucky to be not selected, and
I think that they didn't him and bod and Heaven
really put their hands up, you know. I agree like
cam Re Reguard. I mean, Aaron's this great player, but
he's a bit of talk about him too, But cam
(23:41):
Reuiguard and these guys, we've got an our vanguard of
young half back. So that's sort of just basically well,
I'll be quiet man.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
No, no, I mean I agree with you, Graham. And
the thing about it is that you know, and people
are pointing out on the text machine as well. Damien
McKenzie was named World Rugby in the World Rugby sort
of dream Squad of the Year at number ten. And
the highlights reels of Damien McKenzie are absolutely brilliant, right
if you if you pick out five, five or six
of his best moments from the twenty twenty four season,
(24:11):
he will look as good as any player in the
world right now. But it's that consistency and the stuff
that doesn't make the highlights real that I think sort
of just still has a few reservations about about long
term utilizing him as the number ten or even the
number twenty.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Well there, that's standard with Damien McKenzie. I don't mean
that in a derogatory way. His Twilight's package reel every
year to the Chiefs, and you know, he does some
miraculous things, but it's the game we're talking that A
Boden Barrett was a better first five a few years ago,
but I don't think his game management is that great either.
As Richie Mulana, I saw so much of him here
(24:52):
and what he did at the World Cup last year.
A lot of people disagree and almost sabbaticals. I agree
one hundred percent too with what you were saying. You know,
I think that if they handled properly, they can a
lot of people don't like them. I never used to,
but I think at Cody Taylor this year, I think
he really benefited from it when he came back for
(25:14):
the Crusaders and then in the All Blacks campaign, And
I think players, yeah, can come back and yeah, and
if they're not playing in Japan, you know that's fine.
They can ever break and you can win, win, you
can carry on they can carry on plane longer. But yeah,
we'll see what others have got to say.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, absolutely, Graham, Hey, great to hear from you, have
a great week.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Good thank you, edn't bite cheers.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Good to hear from your Graham. Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eight. If you'd like to join the discussion,
we're obviously just talking come the end of the season. Now,
test season done and dusted for the All Blacks, fourteen
tests are gone, and the chatter arounds out of the
Inside Rugby column and the heralds today is just how
hard New Zealand Rugby are going to have to work
(25:58):
to get Richie Muhonger back. But it appears to be
top of the wish list for Scott Robertson for New
Zealand rugby heading into next year, and if not next year,
maybe the year after as we build up to the
twenty twenty seven Rugby World Cup. Conrad good even to you.
Speaker 8 (26:17):
Yes, my position is they should let the all best
play overseas because all these hit aches are created because
they won't let the all blessed player over seeds. That
creates all the headaches. I mean, there's a lot of
talks For example, Chris Wood plays overseas in I think
in the English Premier League, so he last time I cheeked,
(26:39):
he's allowed players for you at all. White Kane Williamson
plays cricket the last time I cheak God, he's trying
to play for against England this week. So what I
don't think you understand is that that having these special
rules actually creates headaches. Now the reverse scenario is someone
like the spring Box. My understanding is a lot of
(27:00):
their players play in Europe. It's for those kind of guys.
Here's a key point that makes it a lot easier
for the coach for a star because redby Erasthmus can
simply have a blank page with just names on it
and none of these are stiknect to them, whether they
player the season or not. So Arasmus already has a
(27:22):
huge advantage over Robertson. Right, And if your orderate goal
is to win the World Cup, why would you handicap
Robertson compared for a Resthmas.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, well it's going to be long term assessment on that,
I think. Conrad, Yes, the spring Box are doing well now.
They're their players are as you say, playing and a
Europe a lot of them, but they're not confined to
their domestic competition. But for me, it's it's the effect
that that has on the next level down and super rugby.
And do we want to get to a point like
we have years football as an example, when our professional
(27:54):
or you know what might be semi professional clubs down
the track only have development players in head off shore
as soon as they can. Is that really good for
the sport of rugby.
Speaker 8 (28:05):
Well, maybe that's the way we'll sport is going though
the sense to me, he's on rugby as the ones
that is a holdout. And secondly, I mean I don't
I don't think you know when Argentina won the World
Cup in twenty twenty two, in December twenty twenty two,
I mean they didn't have all sorts of risks for
a thing because their best he doesn't plan art and Seena,
they just they you're celebrated winning the World Cup. So yeah,
(28:26):
I'll leave that anyway.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yes, no, great thoughts, Conrad, I appreciate it. It is
a really interesting discussion. It's been debated for so long
and it is New Zealand rugby's own unique rule. We've
seen obviously the Australians water there strict criteria down on,
you know, where players need to be playing to make
the Wallabies hasn't really helped them. They'll see what happens
(28:50):
under Joe Schmidt over the next couple of years. But
the spring box back to back world champions and you know,
giving their players a little bit of freedom. But as
I said to Conrad, I do just wonder the long
term viability of that, for rugby is a domestic sport
in the country, but we will wait and see it. Certainly,
on Scott Robertson's agender, I believe to allow these sabbaticals
(29:15):
to happen for two years of players not playing super
rugby but being part of the All Black setup. And
fair enough from Razor, he's in charge of trying to
win a World Cup. That's his plan. Well, I just
think the damage you can do to rugby by loosening
it up too severely could be a bit terminal. Anyway,
(29:38):
I'd up to hear your thoughts. Plenty of text coming in. Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number twenty five
to eight back with more of your calls. Next couple
of quick texts here on sports talk Monger made his
choice no way, should he be brought back, should honor
his contract? And the other text here, I'm completely again
springing in overseas based players. It's a slippery slope for
his Zealand rugby. If Razor is the super coach everyone
(30:00):
thinks he is, he should be able to get the
best out of our current playing stock. That from Richard.
Thanks for that, Richard, David good evening, what do you reckon?
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I just agree with I agree with it last comment
because I think if you're going to make start making
special rules for one player, all I'm going to say
is I hope the double doors are working when he
gets off the plane, because his head's going to be
that big. I don't care who he is.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
He sort of we'll come come back with a bit
of a spring and his step starting around the eye
up being brought back as any.
Speaker 9 (30:38):
No, no, no, But I mean when you I mean,
this is the all blacks, you know, the god given
sanctity of the black jersey and the silver food, and
they start making special rules for one person.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
It's just not on. I on really, I can't believe
that he's in And even in the talking point for
being the next five as I mean, they let Plumber
go a real good one. How I thought it was
(31:12):
solid airs and and and stop putting holes in it,
you know. And what you in a rugby want to do,
don't worry about the bloody bring plows back from overseas.
What they want to do is start putting their bloody efort.
And they're all their backside behind NPC and Provincial Rugby
and Club Rugbek. Because that's anyway I've ever read.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's no great rant, David. I love it, and yeah
I totally get that. Thanks, thanks for your call, Goosts.
Good evening.
Speaker 7 (31:44):
Yeah, an interesting topic and that your menus to find
one that gives you off what everybody's talking about. But yeah, yeah,
that's an interesting one because Rais and wife have hit
on the solution as far as a Sabetical that we
can pull them back from. If it's only a Shabetical,
(32:06):
I don't know, but I think it is the thin
end of the wedge and very slippery slope because as
soon as it goes to being able to select players
from overseas, the All Blacks are gone. As far as
a realistic pl one, the sporting entity we become the
(32:29):
whipping boys that provide. I mean, have a look at
Ireland last year at the World Cup when we fronted
up against them, they had three keyweeds across the back
line and a Nausia on the length, two South Africans
in the pack. We haven't got the money to compete,
we haven't got the sponsorship to compete. We're just absolutely
(32:49):
bugget if we go to a financial model like that.
The only advantage we have is that the all black
jersey has the pool that it has. But the problem
we've got is the now coming to fruition, the legacy
of Hanson and Foster who put all their eggs on
this idiotic ken can be fifteen basket and then New
(33:11):
Zealand Rugby doubled down on it by backing Barrack through
to the next World Cup and leaving them alling a hand.
So we're seeing, we're seeing the problem. We now we're
dealing with a dmat who's, as you talked about his
highlights trill. He'll be a world class player on a
highlight d realm all day every day. But as far
(33:33):
as a team managers, it's able to direct this side
around a paddock. Give me a break, he's nowhere near it,
and then you took, and then you've got an Odin
Barratt in twenty sixteen was the world's best player and
in twenty seventeen got given at it again when it
was laughable that he was because he was already on
the squad the season. Then that has seen year his mouth.
(33:56):
So yeah, we need more badly.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And you'd you'd, you'd break your own rules goes to
bring him back.
Speaker 7 (34:07):
The Ros are, Yeah, we've got issues here because we're
going to have to do something up and they've painted
themselves into a funer. They've got a bite like plumber
that left somebody else mentioned Fergus Burke. We're not losing
the guys that look like they are going to be
coming through from super rugby to be All Blacks. We're
losing kids at high school level to go and play
(34:30):
club rugby in the UK. We're on in major trouble
and so if bringing along a back means that we
have to shake the rules up to some extent, then
we have to do that because we're literally a fifty
to fifty proposition against any other Tier one nation while
we don't have an international quality first fire and currently
(34:53):
we don't have one.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, I'm with you go. Thanks very much for your call. Yeah,
I'm fully behind them getting Richie Maonga back And at
the same time I would love to have seen Zealand
rugby earned from what I think was probably a mistake
of letting him go after the World Cup. But when
you're seeing as you point out the likes of the
(35:16):
Harry Plumbers and Fergus Burke's heading off shore, a couple
of young backs, the Hurricanes as well, I've sort of
dot a little bit worth of how I thought had
great potential but sick of being patient and not being
invested in, and away they go too. So yeah, it's
a problem that doesn't look like it's being prevented any further,
(35:39):
even though I think it's plain and clear that a
mistake was made by letting Richiemonger go and looking at
the future with that. Anyway, thanks for your calls. Quarter
to eight. We are fast approaching the end, but we
will get to our power rankings in just a moment.
Rankings Piney away this week. Of course, the format does
(36:04):
not change though. Time for Power Rankings brought to you
by Coops Manchester City.
Speaker 8 (36:11):
This will be the most.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
High catching scoreline right across Europe this weekend and it's five, yes,
five consecutive defeat for the Champions You earness me, how
did they get into such a free fall of four
near loss to Spurs, the latest one this weekend, eight
points back on the ladder. Now at least they can
stay at home this week. They have fineal oords in
the Champions League on Wednesday morning.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Nine.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Well, they don't deserve much higher than this. The All
Blacks and a year of significant change, and the All
Blacks comes through a winning but largely forgettable ends, insuring
uninspiring to say the least, to cap off a shaky
year under new coach Scott Robertson ten wins, four losses
from the fourteen tests. I'd say more questions than answers
(36:57):
about where this team's at a quarter of the way
through the World's Cup cycle.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
Eight.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Liam Lawson, it was tough.
Speaker 10 (37:04):
I think the start of the race is tricky, and
then after the first stop cycle we were in an
okay position, but I guess we tried to stretch it
a little bit too long and then and then we
went to box anyway, So yeah, it's it's tough, but
obviously doesn't.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Help where we're starting. He used that word a few
times tough outing for him under lights of the Vegas
Strip last night. As he mentioned, there though a challenging
starting spot, and I think still the potential to finish
the year on a high with a few races to go.
Seven we stay with Formula one have that.
Speaker 8 (37:37):
Man has hit the jackpots in Vegas tonight, Max Firstaffer,
a four time champion.
Speaker 11 (37:45):
Of the world.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Their sensational four consecutive championships to Max First Staff and
as predictable as his success has often come, you've got
to admire the feet he joins one manual Fansio Michael Schumacher,
Sebastian Vettel and Sir Lewis Hamilton and clinching the four
six well, his voice probably won't need an introduction to
you NFL fans.
Speaker 11 (38:06):
So happy and grateful that the Lord has asked me
to play in some snow, to be in true football
weather in Cleveland, Ohio at Huntington bank Field today to
give him the glory. It's a beautiful day.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Jameis Winston, the Cleveland's quarterback doing great things on the
snow in the latest round and as pre match hype
speeches as postmatch interviews show plenty of other sportspeople how
character and emotion can captivate your fan base. Five Let's
set the water in Dubai and an.
Speaker 12 (38:34):
Early celebration for the Kiwi's not quite there yet, but
it's safe to say the Emirates winning moment goes the
way of the Black Foils, as New Zealand claims the
first event of the twenty twenty five season.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Great start to the sale GP season from a Kiwi perspective.
Typical class as always from Berlin, Chuke and all bring on.
They made an appearance in Auckland and January four, crossing
the purse one hundred, calling.
Speaker 12 (39:02):
The kid fifteens's love affairs of batting.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
It is Friday. Great right, yeah, well we all know
what happened in India over the past months to them,
but a long awaited century in Australia for v Ratz
helps putting the Indians in a dominant possession in the
first test of the Aussie Summy. You'll love to see it,
don't you. Three the World's rugby men's fifteen's breakthrough player
of the year, Wi's popped up there gets a pass
(39:27):
away for hell that's an incredible pass by Wallace Titi
there it is superb skill from wallis huge congratulations Wallace
a Tit. The twenty two year old debuted off the
bench against Fiji this year, then started an eighth of
his next nine tests, an amazing journey considering he was
(39:49):
barely a Super Rugby starter at the beginning of the year.
Surprising not to see him in the overall Team of
the Year though two to the fairways. Some kind of
final d charge though from one of the best in
the game.
Speaker 10 (40:00):
It's not going to be enough, but what a baliant
effort and it's quite a season.
Speaker 8 (40:05):
She is hard.
Speaker 7 (40:06):
He that enough, It's just it.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Has been pun to life degree more consistency and class
from Lydia CoA sublime final round sixty three, not quite
enough to clinch the LPGA to a championship, but her
form and absolute brilliance go on show again of course,
wrapping up an incredible year that's returned Olympic gold and
a maiden British Open. Right here we go one we
(40:32):
head to the top of the A League Ladder. Four
straight for life under Steve Corica and the most successful
start to life as an A League club now belongs
to Auckland FC. Auckland FC's dream run at the starts
of their new era continues, no goals scored against them. Now,
(40:53):
I will say it's a long competition, it will get tougher,
but even from a proud Dwellingtonian and Phoenix fan like myself,
four from four in your very first season. Congratulations to
all involved at Auckland FC. We'll see you at the
derby in a couple of weeks. Don't forget we are
just behind you on the ladder. So there we have it.
(41:14):
Our power rankings for Monday November twenty five. Congratulations Auckland FC.
Seven to eight tier on Sports Talk will be back
to wrap up right after this, and just before we
go here on Sports Talk, the Indians are closing it
on victory in Perth against Australia. Then I have the
hosts two hundred and twenty four for seven well into
the tale with Alex Carey and Mitchell Stark at the crease.
(41:36):
So it's after lunch. I do wonder if they'll even
make it to tea with yeah, Australia well behind three
hundred plus runs still the deficit, so looks like we
will be having an Indian victory in that first Test
in Australia. Not too far away. Of course, Test cricket
coming to our shorts just a couple of days time.
But everyone in christ Church is getting very excited for
(41:59):
Black Caps England starting Thursday. But thanks to producer Andy
McDonalds tonight, thanks to everyone who has called and texted.
Sorry we couldn't get to everyone who phoned and texted.
Has been a busy night on the phones. Actually, I'm
sure this Richie Wonger discussion will carry on. It's going
to be an interesting aspects of the twenty twenty five
rugby season. Parties back next week thanks to your company.
(42:21):
Catch you again soon
Speaker 1 (42:34):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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