December 5, 2024 • 9 mins
New Zealand and England have opted for the same XIs in the second cricket test starting tomorrow at Wellington's Basin Reserve.
The Black Caps have decided against including spinner Mitchell Santner.
Australian tweaker Nathan Lyon took 10 wickets in their win over New Zealand at the venue in March.
However, in Auckland's win over Wellington last month - the sole Plunket Shield match at the venue this season - only three of the 40 wickets came via turn.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talks'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Mike Hesson that joins us now forming his on coach
as we take a look at the second test of
only three for summer. That's the way it is, Mike,
Good day to you, sir. I trust you.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Well, yeah, very well, thinks does he That's what I
like to hear.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So I suppose the story there's a few of them
around this, but the team is not going to have
a spinner. We all thought Mitchell Sant was going to
get a roll because he got put up to the media.
Normally that's the case, but they tricked us. They're running
with four seemers. But what's your initial reaction to that move?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Look, I guess there's always going to be an into
the wind option, So I guess if you've got a
seama that can do that job.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I mean, New Zealand had Neil Wagner.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
For years who was able to still create opportunities while
running into the wind. So if they feel they've got
seemas to do that, if they don't think that there's
going to be enough wind and sun to sort of
dry the pitch out, then I guess with you know,
billops and ruts and Revenger, they've got the luxury of
not having to play a frontline spinner in terms of
(01:12):
Mitchell satness, So I'm sure they would have weighed all
those things up.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And when you're going into a Test and your experience
and looking at whether you bring a spinner or not,
looking at the deck, it's kind of hard to predict,
isn't it what the deck is going to do? So
what are their base selections like that on like when
you were doing it.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Look, the reality is in New Zealand, it's at the
main venues in test cricket. The ball doesn't spin because
they have to leave enough grass on it to give
it pace. And that's you know, the last ten years
our results, you know, playing the seamers have been the
way to go.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
But the difference of the basin is the wind.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
As I said, so, I guess you look at the
forecast and that's obviously unproven as we all know, but
forecast gives you a bit of an indication as to
I guess how much it's going to dry out. And
often the greener the grass is to start, the quicker
it'll dry out because you've got live grass, it needs
to suck the moisture out of the surface. So often
if you see greener grass, then you know it's going
(02:13):
to dry out quicker.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
We had bashally taking wickets last week, and of course
you also remember why Ayton Lyon came over and wasn't tenfold,
wasn't it he did particularly well. We're kind of flying
in the face of common knowledge, so that'd be maybe
haunting or spooking the black Cats, Mike.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I mean, I think if you watched this year this
his wickets last week, you certainly wouldn't think they were
genuine spinner's wickets. I mean, he gets bounced, but you
know he got some he got some soft dismissals against spin,
and that was generally just through the fact that black
Caps tried to take him on, and you know, he
got wickets with full tosses and all sorts of things.
(02:51):
Nathan Lyon got drift, and the one thing that you
will get at the base of reservers drift. So if
you've got a good front line spinner who can get
the ball to move in the air, then it doesn't
necessarily have to turn square. It just has to turn
enough to change the angles. So look, I mean you
look at New Zealand's record the last twelve years at home,
(03:12):
spinners just haven't done the job, and the record at
home for the black Caps has been exceptional.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So it would have to be.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Really conditions where you think the spinner has to play
in order for New Zealand to do it over here.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So you're quite happy with the four seemers with a
couple of backup tweakers to go in there. That sits
well with you, Mike Heessen.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Well, as I said, you look at history and you
suggest the last twelve years we've won matches without a
frontline spinner and we've got the luxury of having Phillips
and Ruts and Revender in the side anyway, So if
the ball spins towards the back end of the match,
then we can deal with that. The other problem with
having four seamers as you overrate, as you would have seen,
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Got doc points because of their slow.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Overrate and not playing a spinner is going to make
that challenging.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
You took the words right out of my mouth. That's
been the story. It's been interesting when you consider that
they can get ninety overs through but it seems that
the punishment has done not enough to players or teams
be concerned about it. Is this a genuine issue? Do
you think ICC need to come down harder with what
they do, like losing wickets, losing runs, if you don't
(04:17):
come to the party with your overrate.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Look, I don't think so. I think that it's actually
got a lot better the last four or five years.
I think the ICC have done They've come down really hard,
and I mean the worst thing they can do is
dock your points. And I mean Australia missed out on
a World Championship final because they our over eight, as
have other teams in the past as well.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So there are severe penalties.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
But I mean when the match finishes before the end
of the fourth day, there's obviously a lot of wickets,
there's a lot of reviews, there's all sorts of things
that come into come into account. I certainly don't think
sides should be docked over eight in matches that don't
finish in a draw. You know, the game is moving
fast enough, the crowd of getting plenty of entertainment. I
(04:58):
think it can be a yeah, I think it can
be a bit of a curse. Of commentators sometimes when
they just go on and on about having to work
over time. I think it's just the reality of all
of the things with DRS and the different angles and
all those sort of things that seem to slow things down.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I wonder a retrospective judgment more than anything that the
game finished within four days, so we're not going to
bother finding anybody. But then you go to the other
fans being taken advantage of when they're watching on TV
or watching it at the ground. Does that need to
be taken into consideration. Of course there's the commercial consideration too,
(05:37):
about how many ads get to get played and so
on and so forth. Is that worth worth a.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Look, Well, I think you just get ads between overs
now like you used to with paid TV, so they
get the ads in any way. So look, I just
think it's a it's a mantra that keeps getting brought
out by you know, basically for something to talk about
it for game slow.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
I mean, the reality is there.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Are more results now than ever, so the fact that
you get eighty seven overs rather than ninety in a day,
but you get pure entertainment.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I know what I'd prefer, Mike, Let's talk about the Seamers.
Chris Ken's on the programming. Chris seems to think that
the long term willow Rourke is going to be firebrand
and in Wellington he needs to open the bowling with
the wind at his back, and he sees maybe Soudy
doing the donkey work into the wind. How does that
(06:27):
sit with you?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Look, I think will O'Rourke has good he presents the
scene well, but he also is probably a better bowler
with a slightly older ball, so I'd have a slightly
different view than that. I just think that if you've
got someone who can swing the ball up front. You know,
no issue with Soudy bowling into the wind at his base,
but you need there's generally an end where there's a
(06:53):
slight cross breeze, so you know where the Matt Henry
goes down draft and Sowdy comes into it.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You know, I'm happy either way.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Will O'Rourke obviously needs to have a bit of an
angle in so he to have that, But I mean
I wouldn't want the big fellow running into the wind
too much.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Short sharp bursts from him, you.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Know, with the wind, whether it be with the new
ball or slightly older, I'm not too concerned about.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
That and the catching. Plainly lot's being made of that,
and understandably so, because it was diabolical in England's victory,
not safe served to them on a plate, but it
didn't help. We didn't take any of our catchers. Besides that,
besides actually taking the opportunities, where else is room for improvement?
Do you believe with the Black Caps?
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Well, I think it's needing to create some pressure with
the ball. You know, sure it's about creating an opportunity,
but it's also about creating pressure and making England take
some tough options and you often can't do that when
you're trying to protect both sides of the park. And often, yeah,
that's kind of what happened, is that, you know, we
weren't able to restrict England, so they were able to
(08:00):
sort of take along at a pretty good rate without
taking too many risks. And you know, there are times
where you have to deny and that in itself can
be quite attacking and maybe look to bowl more wide
of off set a field accordingly, or bowl the bumper
plan more often where you can only get hit one side.
I mean, I thought England's bowling plans against us were good.
(08:23):
I thought they create when they had the short plan,
which is almost the Neil Wagner plan. They had that
short third man as well and the wide ones, so
you couldn't get leads side of the ball and slap
it over the off side either. So I think their
fields were whereas we were probably a little bit traditional.
And I think when sides are going to come hard
at you and combat you, you've got to have ways
(08:43):
of trying to deny as well, So a bit of work.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
To do there.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
And then from a batting point of view, it's it's
exactly the opposite. It's just being able to absorb that
that plan for a period of time so that they
go to another plan. You know, often we we weren't
able to quite absorb that that pressure and then get
them to force to go to plan B, C or D.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And on that we bid you fare well always great mind.
I hasten to tap into your knowledge and experience. We
appreciate it, mate. You enjoy the next five days. Of course,
we've got Test cricket here and then there's pink ball
day Night cricket after that. So it's goodbye to the fans.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Thank you for more from sports Talk. Listen live to
news talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talks'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Mike Hesson that joins us now forming his on coach
as we take a look at the second test of
only three for summer. That's the way it is, Mike,
Good day to you, sir. I trust you.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Well, yeah, very well, thinks does he That's what I
like to hear.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So I suppose the story there's a few of them
around this, but the team is not going to have
a spinner. We all thought Mitchell Sant was going to
get a roll because he got put up to the media.
Normally that's the case, but they tricked us. They're running
with four seemers. But what's your initial reaction to that move?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Look, I guess there's always going to be an into
the wind option, So I guess if you've got a
seama that can do that job.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I mean, New Zealand had Neil Wagner.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
For years who was able to still create opportunities while
running into the wind. So if they feel they've got
seemas to do that, if they don't think that there's
going to be enough wind and sun to sort of
dry the pitch out, then I guess with you know,
billops and ruts and Revenger, they've got the luxury of
not having to play a frontline spinner in terms of
(01:12):
Mitchell satness, So I'm sure they would have weighed all
those things up.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And when you're going into a Test and your experience
and looking at whether you bring a spinner or not,
looking at the deck, it's kind of hard to predict,
isn't it what the deck is going to do? So
what are their base selections like that on like when
you were doing it.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Look, the reality is in New Zealand, it's at the
main venues in test cricket. The ball doesn't spin because
they have to leave enough grass on it to give
it pace. And that's you know, the last ten years
our results, you know, playing the seamers have been the
way to go.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
But the difference of the basin is the wind.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
As I said, so, I guess you look at the
forecast and that's obviously unproven as we all know, but
forecast gives you a bit of an indication as to
I guess how much it's going to dry out. And
often the greener the grass is to start, the quicker
it'll dry out because you've got live grass, it needs
to suck the moisture out of the surface. So often
if you see greener grass, then you know it's going
(02:13):
to dry out quicker.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
We had bashally taking wickets last week, and of course
you also remember why Ayton Lyon came over and wasn't tenfold,
wasn't it he did particularly well. We're kind of flying
in the face of common knowledge, so that'd be maybe
haunting or spooking the black Cats, Mike.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I mean, I think if you watched this year this
his wickets last week, you certainly wouldn't think they were
genuine spinner's wickets. I mean, he gets bounced, but you
know he got some he got some soft dismissals against spin,
and that was generally just through the fact that black
Caps tried to take him on, and you know, he
got wickets with full tosses and all sorts of things.
(02:51):
Nathan Lyon got drift, and the one thing that you
will get at the base of reservers drift. So if
you've got a good front line spinner who can get
the ball to move in the air, then it doesn't
necessarily have to turn square. It just has to turn
enough to change the angles. So look, I mean you
look at New Zealand's record the last twelve years at home,
(03:12):
spinners just haven't done the job, and the record at
home for the black Caps has been exceptional.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So it would have to be.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Really conditions where you think the spinner has to play
in order for New Zealand to do it over here.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So you're quite happy with the four seemers with a
couple of backup tweakers to go in there. That sits
well with you, Mike Heessen.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Well, as I said, you look at history and you
suggest the last twelve years we've won matches without a
frontline spinner and we've got the luxury of having Phillips
and Ruts and Revender in the side anyway, So if
the ball spins towards the back end of the match,
then we can deal with that. The other problem with
having four seamers as you overrate, as you would have seen,
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Got doc points because of their slow.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Overrate and not playing a spinner is going to make
that challenging.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
You took the words right out of my mouth. That's
been the story. It's been interesting when you consider that
they can get ninety overs through but it seems that
the punishment has done not enough to players or teams
be concerned about it. Is this a genuine issue? Do
you think ICC need to come down harder with what
they do, like losing wickets, losing runs, if you don't
(04:17):
come to the party with your overrate.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Look, I don't think so. I think that it's actually
got a lot better the last four or five years.
I think the ICC have done They've come down really hard,
and I mean the worst thing they can do is
dock your points. And I mean Australia missed out on
a World Championship final because they our over eight, as
have other teams in the past as well.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So there are severe penalties.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
But I mean when the match finishes before the end
of the fourth day, there's obviously a lot of wickets,
there's a lot of reviews, there's all sorts of things
that come into come into account. I certainly don't think
sides should be docked over eight in matches that don't
finish in a draw. You know, the game is moving
fast enough, the crowd of getting plenty of entertainment. I
(04:58):
think it can be a yeah, I think it can
be a bit of a curse. Of commentators sometimes when
they just go on and on about having to work
over time. I think it's just the reality of all
of the things with DRS and the different angles and
all those sort of things that seem to slow things down.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I wonder a retrospective judgment more than anything that the
game finished within four days, so we're not going to
bother finding anybody. But then you go to the other
fans being taken advantage of when they're watching on TV
or watching it at the ground. Does that need to
be taken into consideration. Of course there's the commercial consideration too,
(05:37):
about how many ads get to get played and so
on and so forth. Is that worth worth a.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Look, Well, I think you just get ads between overs
now like you used to with paid TV, so they
get the ads in any way. So look, I just
think it's a it's a mantra that keeps getting brought
out by you know, basically for something to talk about
it for game slow.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
I mean, the reality is there.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Are more results now than ever, so the fact that
you get eighty seven overs rather than ninety in a day,
but you get pure entertainment.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I know what I'd prefer, Mike, Let's talk about the Seamers.
Chris Ken's on the programming. Chris seems to think that
the long term willow Rourke is going to be firebrand
and in Wellington he needs to open the bowling with
the wind at his back, and he sees maybe Soudy
doing the donkey work into the wind. How does that
(06:27):
sit with you?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Look, I think will O'Rourke has good he presents the
scene well, but he also is probably a better bowler
with a slightly older ball, so I'd have a slightly
different view than that. I just think that if you've
got someone who can swing the ball up front. You know,
no issue with Soudy bowling into the wind at his base,
but you need there's generally an end where there's a
(06:53):
slight cross breeze, so you know where the Matt Henry
goes down draft and Sowdy comes into it.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You know, I'm happy either way.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Will O'Rourke obviously needs to have a bit of an
angle in so he to have that, But I mean
I wouldn't want the big fellow running into the wind
too much.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Short sharp bursts from him, you.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Know, with the wind, whether it be with the new
ball or slightly older, I'm not too concerned about.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
That and the catching. Plainly lot's being made of that,
and understandably so, because it was diabolical in England's victory,
not safe served to them on a plate, but it
didn't help. We didn't take any of our catchers. Besides that,
besides actually taking the opportunities, where else is room for improvement?
Do you believe with the Black Caps?
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Well, I think it's needing to create some pressure with
the ball. You know, sure it's about creating an opportunity,
but it's also about creating pressure and making England take
some tough options and you often can't do that when
you're trying to protect both sides of the park. And often, yeah,
that's kind of what happened, is that, you know, we
weren't able to restrict England, so they were able to
(08:00):
sort of take along at a pretty good rate without
taking too many risks. And you know, there are times
where you have to deny and that in itself can
be quite attacking and maybe look to bowl more wide
of off set a field accordingly, or bowl the bumper
plan more often where you can only get hit one side.
I mean, I thought England's bowling plans against us were good.
(08:23):
I thought they create when they had the short plan,
which is almost the Neil Wagner plan. They had that
short third man as well and the wide ones, so
you couldn't get leads side of the ball and slap
it over the off side either. So I think their
fields were whereas we were probably a little bit traditional.
And I think when sides are going to come hard
at you and combat you, you've got to have ways
(08:43):
of trying to deny as well, So a bit of work.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
To do there.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
And then from a batting point of view, it's it's
exactly the opposite. It's just being able to absorb that
that plan for a period of time so that they
go to another plan. You know, often we we weren't
able to quite absorb that that pressure and then get
them to force to go to plan B, C or D.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And on that we bid you fare well always great mind.
I hasten to tap into your knowledge and experience. We
appreciate it, mate. You enjoy the next five days. Of course,
we've got Test cricket here and then there's pink ball
day Night cricket after that. So it's goodbye to the fans.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Thank you for more from sports Talk. Listen live to
news talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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